This Past Weekend - E415 Bubba Sparxxx

Episode Date: November 1, 2022

Bubba Sparxxx is an American rapper from La Grange, Georgia. His singles include "Deliverance", "Ugly", and "Ms. New Booty" which peaked at number 7 on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100. You can check out his latest single “Catastrophic” here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPDNtk1GKqQ  Bubba Sparxxx joins Theo to talk about growing up in the south, football dreams, his rise in rap, the highs and lows of his success, and his eventual path to recovery.  ------------------------------------------------ Tour Dates! https://theovon.com/tour New Merch: https://www.theovonstore.com Podcastville mugs and prints available now at https://theovon.pixels.com ------------------------------------------------- Support our Sponsors: Celsius: Go to the Celsius Amazon store to check out all of their flavors. #CELSIUSBrandPartner #CELSIUSLiveFit   https://www.amazon.com/stores/CELSIUS/ShopNow/page/95D581F4-E14E-4B01-91E7-6E2CA58A3C29 ------------------------------------------------- Music: "Shine" by Bishop Gunn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3A_coTcUek ------------------------------------------------ Submit your funny videos, TikToks, questions and topics you'd like to hear on the podcast to: [e-mail] Hit the Hotline: [phone] Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: http://www.theovon.com/fan-upload Send mail to: This Past Weekend 1906 Glen Echo Rd PO Box #159359 Nashville, TN 37215 ------------------------------------------------ Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovon Facebook: https://facebook.com/theovon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend Twitter: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheoVonClips ------------------------------------------------ Producer: Alex https://www.instagram.com/mralexlagos/  Producer: Zach https://www.instagram.com/zachdpowers/ Producer: Colin https://instagram.com/colin_reinerSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We got new merch, some new colorways in the Be Good to Yourself collection. We've got hoodies in plum and moss. We've also got t-shirts in lilac, moss, and blue mist. I hope you enjoy those. Those are good colors. Get that hitter and more at theovonstore.com. I want to let you know that we have some new tour dates to announce. January 11th and 12th in Grand Junction, Colorado. We've added a new show there.

January 13th, Pueblo, Pueblo, Colorado. January 14th, Denver. We have two shows there. January 15th, down in Fort Collins, Colorado. We're excited to be at the fort. And March 1st, 3rd, and 4th in Boston, Massachusetts. And March 2nd in Medford, Massachusetts. Those are all available at theovon.com slash T-O-U-R. And that will be the return of the RAT tour.

Today's guest has been a fixture in the rap and hip-hop community. He was a part of a lot of our adolescence and young adulthood. He's a new friend, and I'm grateful to spend time with him and hear about his journey as an entertainer and as a human. Today's guest is Mr. Bubba Sparks. Shine that light on me, I'll sit and tell you about stories. Shine on me, and I will find a song, I'll sing it for you. It's called The Sparks, baby.

What's up, big P.O.? Staying alive, man. Staying alive, pleasantly present. That's a big thing, is trying to stay present for me. I get so caught up sometimes in thinking about everything that I need to do or things I haven't done, and I will get. What's that they always say? You probably heard of some of the same places that we've been.

If you've got one foot in tomorrow and one foot in yesterday, you're pissing and shitting all over the day. I got a few sayings for you. Yeah, I bet we probably have a lot of the same. You and I connected over talking about sobriety and stuff. Can you move this mic just over? No, you don't have to move, but you can move this, whatever. As long as it's near your beak.

Feel free to move it or whatever. I'm not sure what to do with my hands. There's no real way to. I was doing Ricky Bobby. What's that been like in your life, man? Man, it's just been a back and forth journey. I've had some periods of recovery. I've had some periods of sobriety.

It weren't necessarily filled with great recovery. There's a difference, as you know. Sometimes I was just kind of white knuckle in it. And then sometimes I'm kind of just either on the way to things getting bad or on the way to things back getting good. You know what I'm saying? At what point is that turn for, you know what I'm saying? So to speak on the racetrack.

Yeah. But I just, I went to treatment back in February. And it was good. But I wouldn't claim to be sober right now. Was it a 30? What is it like? I mean, I did 35 days of inpatient. You know what I'm saying?

And it was kind of weird because all the COVID protocols. So like, you know how normally when you go to treatment, you can like get to go to outside meetings and all that stuff. You can find a sponsor that way and all that stuff. We were literally like stuck in this one house like for, it was cold months. So it was like kind of, it was a good deal to be stuck inside. But man, it got kind of stir crazy in the joint for sure.

And was it all men in there? No, there was some women, but they had like a different little house that they actually would sleep in and they had to go there. Like after eight o'clock, they had to go get in their house. And I ain't gonna say, I heard tell of some, some intermingling after hours, you know what I'm saying? But yeah, I definitely wasn't on that type of vibe. I have, you know, in other trips to treatment,

I've kind of, you know, been all about the female patients. Oh yeah, they get some real, yeah. Especially man, if I'm coming off of pills, I want to pet something, you know? Man, well, it's just anytime, you know, we feel that hole, that internal hole external anything, you know what I'm saying? And so it's like, man, if you take away what I,

what my primary like tool I was using to try to feel that hole, even though it was just ultimately making the hole bigger. But if you just, if you take that, whatever thing I was using, I might define something else. It might be cheeseburgers, you know what I'm saying? It might be gambling, it might be women, you know, it might be men, whatever. Damn, bro, I haven't been there yet.

Me either. Dude, you hit me with the wrong eight ball, I'll fuck him. I might meet some young fella, bro. I ain't meeting no old dude though, that's fucked up. Man, I just, I don't know, I just never had that inclination. If I was gay, I would just be gay. You know what I'm saying? It wouldn't really, I mean, I can't say that growing up,

it might not have been like kind of a tormenting type thing. Growing up in the rural South, you know? You had to be real secret gay back then. But to be honest with you, like being a white rapper from LaGrange, Georgia, you know what I'm saying? It was some of the same type of like, you know, I won't say oppression, but just really cool as you face, you know?

I never even thought about that. Yeah. Yeah, I guess people, yeah, people probably really would have like think you're trying to blacken up or something like that. Well, it's kind of like not really accepted by either side, you know what I'm saying? It's where I grew up, LaGrange, Georgia, shot out of Trap County. But it's pretty much 50% black, 50% white, you know what I'm saying?

And so, yeah, definitely the white side wasn't really too, you know what I'm saying? Like open-minded to the prospect of me being a rapper at that time. But, you know, the hood side, the black folks really wasn't too receptive either. It's not like they were just waiting with open arms as far as that. Like, come be a rapper over here. Well, you were early in telling me, you were like, I mean,

you were like the dang Neil Armstrong out there. You was like one of the first fucking... First man on the moon, yeah, for sure. The first wiggas on the moon kind of in a way, you know? No, I mean, as far as like, you know, a country boy from the south, you know? Did they have that? They didn't have it. No, and that's been part of the journey.

Like, there was no reference point. You know what I'm saying? Like, I grew up out, like, outcast. I was heavily influenced by outcast, goody mob, the organized noise, the dungeon family. So that was the closest thing, because they were the first people to kind of like rep Georgia, you know what I'm saying?

Period, specifically Atlanta. But for me, I was brought up in the country about 60 miles down the road from Atlanta. Oh, dang. And so, yeah, there was, and just being a white boy or whatever, there was definitely nobody for me to look at, even though I did learn from a lot of other white rappers that were successful, starting with the Beastie Boys, you know, going on to like Everlast, House of Pain, even third base to some degree.

But then Eminem, you know what I'm saying? It was right. Eminem was about a year before me, you know what I'm saying? And when he came, I was like, oh, that's perfection right there. That was executed. So like, but I, but I knew, you know, shout out to Vanilla Ice. Um, he's actually my dog. Like I've done shows with him and we've had a ball.

But he's a cool cat. I've met him a few times. Yeah, he's a good dude, man. You know, but at that time, there was like, after his ice, ice, baby rain, kind of like when he saw like 15 million albums, when she can't take everybody was listening. Everybody was jamming ice, ice, baby. I don't care what nobody says now.

Oh, even Vietnamese were like, you know, ice, baby, you know, everybody had it. Hey, you know, projects, albums don't sell 15 million. Singles don't sell 30 million or whatever it sold without everybody liking it. Everybody liked that shit. Everybody got the big pants. When you really hit, when you affect people's, you know, when you go through their ears and come out their clothing. I mean, I remember so many white boys and I wasn't quite old enough

to attempt a stunt like this, but I remember white boys getting even like the little haircut that he had and shit. Like, and it was just like, dang man, you were so cool. You got a vanilla ice haircut, you know what I'm saying? But that wasn't really something I was on. But just to keep going, there was some kind of discrepancies with his story about where he was from and what he was representing as far as being a hood kid or whatever.

And so after that, I kind of just learned it was like a lull. It was like a five or six year period where nobody was checking for white rappers. You know what I'm saying? But I knew like, you just got to represent who you are. You know what I'm saying? Like everything that's in the spirit of hip hop and where hip hop comes from and like the principles, you know, the guiding principles are based on like, you know, just truly, truly accurately, honestly represent who you are,

where you come from and what it was like there until your story. Honestly, you know what I'm saying? And that's going to work. You know what I'm saying? If you do it and you figure out a way to make it dope. And so I had developed that within myself because like my first raps I ever wrote, like in 1992, like at my mom's kitchen table in the ninth grade, we're like was just rolling in the Benzo, letting the bass drop

when five month fuckers roll by on a drop top. Like, you know, talking about like boys in the hood, like I didn't know how to. And that was part of the, what you're talking about. Like the whole journey of me trying to figure out how within using hip hop is the, is the outlet expressing who I was and where I came from, you know, growing up on a farm, you know, saying on the grain. Yeah, farm, but some of the animals got gold chains on. I just, I never cared about music.

Music was all around me. And I had an older brother that loved like metal bands like Iron Maiden. Big shout out to Russ. Iron Maiden is his favorite band, all time band. So he was into that type of music. Then I had my oldest brother, Jay. Shout out to Jay. He liked like a Parliament funk, Camelot, you know what I'm saying?

George Clinton kind of stuff. Yeah, P funk. Yeah, P funk. And then my dad likes like throwback country, you know, traditional country. And my mama just likes to dance. You know what I'm saying? So music was all around, but it just didn't speak to me. You know what I'm saying?

I didn't care about it. It was just something in the background. But when I heard them, somebody say, hey, we want some put. When I heard that, I was like, what is that? Yeah. Then when I heard boys in the hood, when I heard too short, I was like, what the fuck is this? You know what I'm saying?

Maybe you didn't even know you had that in you. It just spoke. I knew it was good when I heard a brass monkey by the Beastie Boys. Oh yeah. I heard it. It's going to be a part of my life forever. I just feel it. It just speaks to me.

Like I don't know the raw expression, the 808 drum. Like, man, it was a lot to do with that 808 honestly, man. Like for real, because that wasn't really a part. The boom bap was kind of like, like the New York wave of hip hop. But when the West Coast finally got his turn, it was like too short and WA. Like that 808 drum was rattling. You know what I'm saying? Dude, I remember.

Yeah. When some of that shit came through our neighborhood, because I probably grew up, I didn't grow up country. I just grew up in like a rural kind of white area. Right. Because Louisiana doesn't get like a redneck vibe. Louisiana is just, it's a lot of like grandchildren. Well, the Cajun vibe, like Brother South.

Yeah. You got Cajun people. You got a lot of mix. Kind of like a lot of yellow skin, kind of like light skin, black dudes. You got some kind of dark. Like Creole type. Yeah. You got some people just fucking, you don't know what color they are, bro.

They don't even know. Fuck. No, Louisiana's a different kind of place now. They got a lot of pirates, grandchildren of pirates and shit like that. Oh, Broadnecks. There's a country rapper just doing this thing right now that he's from Monroe, Louisiana. And they call him Broadnecks? Broadnecks.

That's his last name. Oh, Broadnecks. I think it's John Broadnecks or whatever, but he's representing Louisiana. He's got that Louisiana flavor about the way he does his thing, but it's like kind of country white boy, Louisiana type flavor, which I wouldn't call it like country country, like farm type country. It's just more like swampy. Yeah.

Yeah. So you were just trying to express yourself really? Yeah. And then it was just, it's kind of like a puzzle too. You're just trying to figure out how to fit the pieces together and make it seem cool ultimately. You know what I'm saying? Because I mean, there are some pretty interesting dynamics to rural life.

You know what I'm saying? That maybe some people just aren't typically aware of. You know what I'm saying? But just how to, it's not, now I'm not trying to say that violence in a community and all that stuff is cool. It's a terrible thing. Ultimately, if you're representing yourself as a person that made it persevered and made it through that, and that's your testimony of like, you know what I'm saying?

That's cool. Right. You know what I'm saying? And it's hard. You know what I'm saying? But basically I just, I was like, well, this is it. You know what I'm saying? I got to just give it what I have to offer.

You know what I'm saying? And I just told the story of what I had been through and what my life had been like. And there was enough people that related to it for me to be able to keep doing this as a job without having to get a real job for 20-something years. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, dude, everybody. I mean, I, again, it was crazy, man. When you hit the scene, it was just, it was special, man.

It was special, man. What was some of the pressure of that? Like because, yeah, they just didn't have anything like you. All of a sudden you're like kind of mixing two worlds. You're probably not like, yeah, maybe some, I could imagine maybe especially where you're from, some white people could see like, oh, this is too, this is too black for us. And the hood, the hood, you're never, the hood is fucking, is you're never hood enough. Even if you're like, the hood will always be like, you're never hood enough.

You know, it's like, there's always that even in the black community. But at the end of the day, when you just are being you, you know what I'm saying? Like, and I never compromised me, you know what I really didn't, I never did. There was some things that I might have done that I would have preferred to have highlighted other aspects of who I really am, but there's nothing I did that wasn't, you know, a certain shade of like who I am, you know what I'm saying, like truthfully. And so it's kind of like just being at peace, you know, I went through so much when I was younger as far as like trying to really just figure out like, because I mean, to say that

people didn't support me in my pursuit of this, of rap music, hip hop as a career would be a pretty big understatement. You know, I would say more like people didn't even kind of like stop chuckling behind my back until I had actually like, I was on MTV, you know what I'm saying? So I was well accustomed and adjusted to like people not, not supporting me, you know, to have to be that, that, that self propelling, you know, type deal. Well, that happens, I think with a lot of like, I remember when I was a comedian, like it was like, or until like you, somebody sees you on something, you are just some dude,

you were like some guy that don't want to get a real job and everybody just thinks you're fullest, you know what I'm saying? Like everybody just thinks at the end of the day, because, you know, I mean, I'm a creative person, you know what I'm saying? And I played football and that's like the big deal, like where I grew up, like high school football, you know, it's like Friday night lights type of deal for sure. And I was pretty good at football, my best friend, Steve Herndon, shout out to him. He was great at football, you know what I'm saying?

He was one of the top 100 highest recruited players in the country, went to Georgia was all SEC, played in the NFL for seven years. But so I love football, football is my first love, to be honest with you, and it was interesting because music was actually his first love. And we ended up living vicariously through one another. But when I saw how I was like, man, he's so he's what the deal deal is. And I'm just not quite that, you know what I'm saying? So, man, what can I be great, great at?

You know what I'm saying? I had never bumped my head on the ceiling as far as my potential with football pretty early. But I was like, man, I really think I can do the music thing. I just the first time I ever sat down to write a rap, I was like, man, I just got a knack for this for just putting words together, making them rhyme and just being clever. And just, I don't know, I just always somewhere deep down in my heart, even though I tried to do other things because it wasn't easy.

Like I said, there was no acceptance for it. You know, we all crave being accepted, you know what I'm saying, on some level or another by the people around us. And nobody was really my closest friends, like big Steve, like he, he believed in me 100%. You know what I'm saying? I'd be up at University of Georgia. I ended up moving up to Athens, Georgia, and being up there, like, you know, freestyling

after football games and stuff and like all the guys on the team, you know what I'm saying? Just like, Andy's what they call me back then and just like, Andy, flow for one more time, flow for one more time. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's just all those guys being up there and just being like, That's before the head. I thought you was the iPod. No doubt.

Like I, as far as battling, like everybody would try to go back home and find the best rapper in their little area and get them to come up and get him out, bring his little ass out of the wheelbarrow. He gonna serve your boy. He gonna serve your boy. Yeah. And then, you know what I'm saying? It just wasn't happening.

You know what I'm saying? So I would sit there and literally go back and just write and write. You know what I'm saying? Because I've never been a freestyler because I didn't grow up around other people rapping. You know what I'm saying? So people developed that freestyling ability, I think, when they're in groups of people rapping, but it was a long time before I was around other people that were like seriously leaving, you know, rapping, putting words together like that.

So when you like, so how did, then you start to take off? How did your career, how did, how did it go from that where you're just kind of rapping and becoming like acclaimed amongst people in Georgia, amongst like after parties and stuff like that before social media? How did you get to that next? That's a good question because I always tell people now like, you know, this era of the way it is, I don't even, I wouldn't know where to start telling somebody how to get on.

You know what I'm saying? How to make it happen. People ask me for advice. I'm like, look, just pray that this is what God wants for you. If it's what you really want, you know, and, and burn bridges like, and I don't mean burn bridges in terms of relationships, but in the pursuit of this thing, if you leave yourself outs and I know, you know, this as far as like the comedy thing too, if you leave yourself outs at some point, you're going to take one of them.

You know what I'm saying? Because it's tough. You know what I'm saying? Oh yeah. You know, and so I, I burnt my, some bridges as coach of Georgia, Kirby smart would say burn the boats. You know what I'm saying? Like there was just nowhere for me to go other than this.

You know what I'm saying? If this didn't happen, I shut her to think what, what might have been, you know what I'm saying? A certain number of years in, especially once you get up to like 25, people are like, what's going on? You're not in college. You don't have this degree. You don't have a child.

You don't have a family. People are like, you better show something. You know, and my best friend was like playing football at Georgia and, you know, he was on the way to the NFL and it was honestly, it hurt me so bad. Cause I loved him so much and was so supportive of him. And I now believe, believe that that was God preparing me, you know, because like I learned how to not be a hater, you know what I'm saying? And a lot of people probably looked at me, definitely looked at me as like a hindrance

on him even. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, you know, Steve B.R. if, you know, if, uh, just get away from old Andy, you know what I'm saying? Like kind of looked at me as like the loser, but Steve, he never bought into that. He never subscribed to that. You know what I'm saying? He was always like, tell people like, you know, he going to do something big.

I don't know when it's going to be or what exactly it's going to be. Maybe this music thing, maybe not, but he's going to do something big. You know, he always believed in me, never blinked. And then had you had that kind of belief before in your life? Had you had someone you feel like believing you that like, like that, like, um, no, other than him. Honestly, I mean, it's not that my, my parents and his parents, they, that it was love, you know what I'm saying?

But it was like, it was just so far beyond their realm of comprehension. You know, that it might even be remotely feasible for something like that to happen, especially being a white boy and coming from down there. But I just always looked at it like this, always had like this innate feeling like, Hey, I'm desk. I'm going to do something special. I'm special. I'm different.

You know, I'm not, not in a bad way because I've never not been humble, but just like, you know, just really feeling like there's just something out there waiting for me that I just got to find it and pluck it out of the sky or whatever. And, um, and so I, um, I just basically like, I didn't never think sometimes I felt like, you know, it was, it was going to be something like, because my, my, my fallback plan was being a high school history teacher and a high school football coach. Oh, damn. I'd love to see you fucking remix.

All right. I love it. Oh man. I love it. Remix the civil war though. Yeah. I love to see that. No doubt.

Fucking get, get, get, get, get. He's got a crazy theory on that too. Like, you know, like, you know, when you have like the feeling, this is a tangential. Yeah. No worries. I think it's pretty interesting. People listening just cause people right now are stacking shells, they're driving to Amazon and fucking beating their spouse.

They don't know what they, y'all rocks steady out there. But, um, but, um, as far as like, man, I just, I feel like in the future, like, I think, you know how we get that feeling like everybody says, like, you just know something's in the room with you or you like hear something crazy or whatever. I've kind of developed a theory on this and maybe you, I mean, I like to hear your, your thoughts on it. So I think that in the future, you know, like how in history class now, you know, like we go through books and look at pictures and, and listen to speeches or whatever of these

that markedly certain, you know, historical events or whatever, I think in the future, the reason that we hear these weird things and like, it's like these, I don't know what you would call it, not ghosts, but like some of them probably are mistaken for ghosts. I think in the future, time travel is actually possible and people come back and like can actually be present, but it's, it's like in a different dimension. So they can like see it, but they're not really present. They're like in danger and actually be on the bad battlefield at Gettysburg and stuff like that.

Oh wow. Yeah. That's, that's just something that. So you're saying like in the future, you could have like Gettysburg, a whole class, a whole field. They're just looking at the battle actually taking place, but see, they're not the, the whole background. Right.

They don't know that they're there. They're the people that are fighting the battle don't, but like the whole back to the future thing and like about like, you know, messing it up and all that stuff. That's not, that's not a threat because you're like in a different dimension. Right. You know what I'm saying? So you can observe it, but you're not actually present, but man, I really think that's like you threw some like secret drywall or something like they don't know you're there, but you're

there. Yeah. It's just you're in a different, some kind of different, you know, like. Dude, I used to think, look, I love this shit. I used to think that so people had CDs and eight tray, you know, this and that people had, uh, I always thought that they were going to come out with a dashboard. That was like, uh, some sort of a screen, right? I mean, in a vehicle and you would put it, you would just press in whatever you want

to listen to and then like, uh, Bubba Spark would come and perform on your dashboard like a hologram. Yeah. I always thought that that would be the next thing. Like if you wanted to watch AC DC, you would just type it in and then damn, they would come out there and actually you're just driving and they're right there, you know, I mean, that's like the next step in the evolution of just music videos and like streaming period though.

You know what I'm saying? It's probably not. It's probably because they have those holograms like a Tupac. I remember that was like that, that thing. So I mean, we technology, if you went back a hundred years from, from this, like, so if you went back to 19 or somebody mine, I mean, but like so much more than you would if you went from 1922 to 1822, right? They wouldn't be that shot.

Right. Like the world didn't change that much, but like that's a wheel, but that's just the evidence of the fact that technology is evolving at a much more rapid rate. So imagine a hundred years from now, we can't comprehend it. We literally cannot comprehend it. And so, dude, you know what? Somebody was telling me about comp. I was talking with someone about this and they had, what are you talking about?

You were talking about a guy with a ladder and you, another guy said, Hey, we, we can one day, I think we could get to the moon and this dude could only think, nah, we can't get to, we can maybe get to the top of a tree or something, but I'm not doing a good job of explaining it. Anyway, it was something I learned. But I don't remember. I do that same thing all the time. It's like sometimes we can't comprehend things like it's like, we don't have the words

for it sometimes. Right. And it's beyond our brain even because we're still thinking within the limitations of three dimensional thing of this world. We're thinking of our limitations. One of the hardest things I ever saw was like the way I forget I was watching something often. This is probably 10, 15 years ago, but they were explaining the difference because, you

know, mathematics is like proving that there's like nine dimensions. You know what I'm saying? Like we just aren't aware of them or haven't discovered them or figured out how to interpret them or, you know, or just see them or be present in them, whatever the case is. But so like, you know, if, if we lived in a two dimensional world, my finger coming at you would just look like a doctor, but because it's a three dimensional world, you can see all sides of my finger. You know what I'm saying?

But imagine this. If there was some being God, perhaps some people might call that being, they could do time the same way. Who's to say, you know what I'm saying? You can just look all around. I see what you're saying. Yeah. Like look all around time.

Like, you know, the time thing, this is right, right? Cause time for us just flows like this. Right. But what if some dude just go all around? Yeah. This would be like, okay. I'm going to look at it from looking at a 2,022 from 2014. Okay.

Now I'm going to go look at 2,022 from 2036. You know what I'm saying? So I don't know. Yeah. I wonder if there's other realms we're going to cry like, I feel like that has to be the next thing. You would have to believe that's what God would be. You know what I'm saying?

Like, because I remember when I was real little, you know, my pops, I wouldn't necessarily call him like an intellectual, but he's a pretty smart guy. You know what I'm saying? And he would say, I'd be like trying to get him to explain God to me, you know, like in all these, because I was a very inquisitive kid. And he'd just be like, it's just beyond our realm of comprehension. You know, that was shutting me up every time. He's like, you just can't even understand it.

So, you know what I mean? Like, and honestly, like, that's the truth. You know what I'm saying? Like, whatever it is we're talking about, whatever might be or could be or could, we could evolve into, it's just hard to know. But I was listening to something the other day. I watch a lot of YouTube videos. Oh yeah.

I'll go down to YouTube where I'm going to be there. I love that one with you and Randy Aikens. Oh, Rodney Aikens. Rodney Aikens. Yeah, shout out to Rodney, man. Right. Right. Right.

I like wrecking. I like right. Right. I really, really love it. I like wrecking them. But I really, really did like right. I don't know what it was. No, that was a pretty good example.

To me, that's something I don't normally do as far on the countryside. That's like country music. We rap on it. You know what I'm saying? I feel like I do country hip hop. You know what I'm saying? Really it should be called hip hop country because hip hop is the first thing that I've, you know what I'm saying?

Got it. You know, I represent all things that I am. I'm white. You know what I'm saying? Or whatever. I'm country hip hop. But I'd say I'm hip hop before I'm anything. Got it.

You know what I'm saying? Because it's just that the hip hop music and culture, it's done so much for me. I'm so grateful to be all over the world. What is this? Going on? Going on a complete land on that thought about right. Some guys like Big Smoke, Cole Ford, I would say those are kind of the like forefathers of that sound.

You know what I'm saying? Like where it's really just more like country music, just with some rapping on it and it's dope. And that song was incredible. Shout out to Noor Gordon who worked on writing that song with us. But yeah, Rodney, I had just come to Nashville and that was kind of like the 2012 area of like when Florida Georgia line was first blowing up and the TV show Nashville was on. You know what I'm saying?

Nashville was kind of like getting that first like, oh it's like becoming like an international like cool place. Yeah, it was putting this little skirt on for a while. It wasn't just Redneck Hollywood anymore. Yeah. And so like, you know, and I came up here and Rodney, he took a chance on, you know what I'm saying? It wasn't the cool, now like this genre bending collaborations.

Yeah. You know, like Morgan Wallin, Lil Durk, you got up. Yeah. It's kind of like, it's just like the norm. Lil Nas, everything's real mixed up now. But back then it was, you know, it was actually a kind of rolling the dice, you know what I'm saying? With your career to try something like that and to step over that line.

So I'm appreciative of the people that did because, you know, country always sought to build a bridge between people, you know what I'm saying? Between hip hop and country, the hood and you know what I'm saying? Because lower class people just aren't that different, you know what I'm saying? Well, that's the thing I was thinking about next. I always wonder why don't, I feel like poor, because as a poor white kid, the first thing you wanted to be was black, I felt like. Yeah.

I mean, I was a poor white, when I, well, I'm not a poor white kid anymore. I'm not a kid. Yeah. Right. You know? And I had, some of the times I hate haven't even made any money because I'm not fucking poor anymore. I can't, I can't have the same feelings I had.

Yeah. No. There's something about that. You know what I'm saying? What C-Lo says that I kind of like being poor. At least I know what my friend's here for. You know what I'm saying? Oh, wow.

My mom used to say, she would say, if you don't have anything, they can't take anything away from you. She would say. That's right. And it was kind of like. You'd really be about some shit when you ain't got nothing else to do. You know what I'm saying? You got nothing to fucking lose, bro.

You don't care. When death don't even seem like that bad of an alternative, you know what I'm saying? Yes, sue me. Fuck me. Whatever you want to do, man. They ain't got nothing. Yeah. But for some reason, yeah, when I think I've related so much, I feel like to poor black

kids when I was young. And I think that it's also just a thing like. We had Ms. Pat on. She says, she's like, black people make things cool. She said. And I don't know if I agree about that with everything, something for sure. You know, black folks are creators. I mean, there's, you know, there's, there's nothing that you could really, if you look

at, you know, I mean, all that's been created by black folks in America, I mean, it's a lot when it comes to art, especially. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Well, they got more art kind of built into them, you know, even I feel like if you punch a black dude, a cool sound comes out of him, you know, it's like, but I just, I'm always a little bit fascinated by what it is, even in my own life, why I felt like I related to poor.

You know what I think though? I think a lot of times, uh, raw creativity comes from poverty and oppression, you know what I'm saying? From just the struggle, you know what I'm saying? Like it's, yeah, maybe I like the or, cause poor black people always had a, when I was young, they didn't even have any rich black people and they only had like Michael Werv and I think, yeah, Bill Cosby and maybe like the Dallas Cowboys, it felt like, you know, they probably weren't even that rich, like, you know, what you would, what we thought

was rich at that time, probably we wouldn't, they probably were making like half a million dollars a year or something, you know, or maybe cause contracts weren't even that lucrative back then. You know what I'm saying? No, the producers were making all the money back then. I mean, they really had them boxed up. But even like, I remember if they had like, like the best job a black person could get in our town was probably like our teacher, you know, like, this was in, uh, Covington,

Louisiana. So it's like, coaches, like coaches, uh, now you see a lot more like, I went to the first black doctor at that, like about maybe seven months ago, I go into the doctor and it was a black guy. I'd never been. Are you serious? Yeah. I didn't mean anything, but I know there's black doctors, but I just had never been

the one and I'm like, is this going to, I just, I was like, and then I'm thinking black people, their whole life been going to white doctors. What do they think about that? Well, you know, I mean, just growing up in like, cause you know, this is, the South is different than the rest of the country. Like, like there's, there's black folks in pretty much every major city. Yeah. The difference in the South and the rest of the country is you go an hour outside into

the country in the South and it's still a bunch of black folks. You go an hour outside of like, uh, Minneapolis, you know what I'm saying? There are Milwaukee and there's really not any black folks. You know what I'm saying? That's a good point. So to speak. And so I just, I think like Atlanta, especially like with Atlanta having spent, that's kind of like my, that's my home major city.

You know what I'm saying? I lived in Atlanta for, that's where I live now. Oh, it's like February started a damn city over there. I mean, it's just, you know, and I always tell people when I bump into like, uh, black folks in Idaho or something that just have never been around a lot of other black folks. I say, you need to go live in Atlanta for two years. You know what I'm saying? And go experience a city that's a black city, not just in terms of like the metro population

being a lot of black folks, but also the infrastructure. You know what I'm saying? The mayor is black. You know what I'm saying? The city council, you know, the, the, a lot of the policemen, the sheriff, you know what I'm saying? It's just, it's that kind of city. And I tell white people in those same areas that, you know, cause you ever noticed like

a lot of those like hate groups and stuff will be like in Idaho and you know, the militias and all that stuff. But there are no black, when have you ever been around black people to know you have a problem with them? You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, but I tell, I tell, you know, white folks the same thing, go live in Atlanta for a couple of years, see what it's like to be for that shoe to be on the other, the foot.

You know what I'm saying? Other foot. And you should experience that. You know what I'm saying? Cause I think that, that just evolves your perspective to a point where you might be a little more sympathetic and empathetic of somebody. You know what I'm saying? If you really just looked at the world the way they had been forced to see it, you know,

yeah. It's interesting. I just, I guess I was really just, yeah, I'm just thinking about like why, I guess why, I guess maybe it's a lot of music. I wonder what it was that made me relate when I was real young. I was in this, you know, it was hip hop, man. I'm going to tell you, you know what I'm saying, hip hop, what it was, hip hop shaped a lot of hearts and changed a lot of potentially racist, you know, hearts.

Like I would say like broke that cycle in families in the South, you know, a lot of, because I just knew people that would otherwise I'd be like, man, that joke was racist, but I just love Tupac so much. They just couldn't be, you know what I'm saying? And that one thing, because they just love Tupac hypothetically so much, it just slowly changed their whole perspective on, on just black folks in general. Well, yeah, you'd have, like I always had this vision, you'd have a dude out in his yard that's yelling the N word, but then he closed the door and he's in there fucking

moonwalk. Right. That's the MTV generation. You know what I'm saying? Maybe that is. Because you think about it like people that grew up in the, that's why these, these song writers here in Nashville, when they write like every genre is present, you know what I'm saying?

They're bringing that tool bag of every genre because, because the MTV generation and especially now the way streaming is, you know what I'm saying? Because back in, you know, when you had to like seek out your music, you know what I'm saying? Like when you go to your store and seek out your, whatever kind of music, your taste, you know, preferred, it was a little different, you know what I'm saying? But then when MTV started playing everything, they'd have those blocks. I don't know if you remember that.

They'd have like the blocks where they have hip hop, hip hop block or rock block or R&B block. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And like, so if you're just sitting there watching MTV, which during the summertime, you know, that's just what we did as, as kids, you were going to see that NWA video. You were going to see that, you know, a Will Smith summertime video and then you were going

to see Nirvana. You know what I'm saying? And then you might even see some Tim McGraw and some, you know, whatever, like, so this generate that generation and moving forward, everybody was just, everything was just that accessible. You know what I'm saying? So everybody has been touched by every genre of music in some kind of way. Yeah.

Yeah. And now you start to see, and this is interesting too, you see a lot of black country guys on TikTok. I see a lot of. And you know, it's kind of, it's getting kind of wild dude. Like, I'll meet like, everything is just a lot more mixed. I've always had this theory that it's going to like in three generations, everybody going to be beige.

Yeah. Well, I say that same thing, man. I said, we all started the same color. I believe, you know, I mean, look, I wasn't there. I can't personally. Well, what color is a zygote or whatever? Like a baby. Well, I just think that in that part of the world, that particular part of the world where

the world was allegedly based on what we've been told, born, you know, people look a certain way. And then I think as we migrated to different areas, you know what I'm saying? Like our ancestors migrated to this cold place up here and then had to be in caves for six months out of the year. And, and you know what I'm saying? So over thousands of years of that reduced exposure to the sun, skin just got paler. So we'd split up.

But then now in the last, what, hundred, 200 years, everybody's come back together. So yeah, it's just a matter of time for, we go back to that same color, you know what she's like. Yeah. You didn't even be able to find anybody to hate, man. At that point, you're going to need a chart if you want to be racist, dude. That's why I like some places you can't even be racist. People still going to hate themselves up there.

That's what that's what it blows down to. You know what I'm saying? That's a great point, bro. There ain't nobody out. The easiest person for me to hate is my fucking self and honestly, I can't hate anybody else unless I hate myself. Yeah. And I can't love anybody else unless I love myself, man.

You know, that's just the way it is. So what was, so when you're, you're, so you get, so get me to the point where you kind of, your music really takes off. Okay. So basically I moved up to Athens where big Steve was at and met Bobby Stamps, who was my manager for 20 years and he introduced me to a guy, he introduced me to Colt Ford and to a guy named Shannon Houchens who owns a label and him and Colt have a label here in town called Average Joe's Entertainment in Nashville.

And, but I started just, it was a roundabout way, but I started just really finding myself in the studio, you know, cause I, I was, you know what I'm saying? The first time I ever went to a studio, I was working as a, as an electrician's apprentice running condo, been in pipe and, and I saved up like $350 over one summer and the only other guy that I could find that was a rap, you know what I'm saying? And even any inkling of like wanting to be a rapper or Rodney was his name. He was, he was, he was a different kind of guy. You know what I'm saying?

But, uh, And what do you mean autism or something? No, he was just, he was just a different type of cat. I don't, I don't really know how to put it. You know, he, he didn't come from like, uh, he didn't, everybody played sports. You know what I'm saying? That was like your biggest badge of honor you could have and he, he wasn't that kind of guy.

He was, he was really like a, kind of like an Eminem type, like when you hear Eminem talk about like the way he grew up, you know what I'm saying? Like kind of like that kind of deal, you know, like in the trailer, like the little small mobile home, you know what I'm saying? And, and, uh, they'd never seen it before like him, huh? Yeah. Well, I mean, I wouldn't say that it was even that rare, but it just wasn't most people. He was just kind of like the kind of person that was just was the most people.

He was redheaded. Yes, he was. Dude, any like black culture? Yes. Bruh, tell me this, Bruh. Tell me, you just blew my mind with that. The first dude, the first, the guy, the guy that was always wearing a North Carolina jersey and hanging out with black people was always a redheaded dude, Bruh.

Don't even tell me it wasn't, Bruh. Man. Every, I don't know how it worked out, Bruh. I don't know how to sun hit him or whatever, but. But I kind of, I think our generation, at least where I was growing up, like we kind of were the first generation to like just, we all kicked it, you know what I'm saying? Because football was the most important thing and everybody, you know, and like if you played football, like we, all the color that matters is Navy, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. And so, you know, but, but, but as far as the story of finishing, we saved up, we went to the studio, we get to the studio, up in Atlanta, it was called eight ball recording studios. I'll never forget. So I had my $300, he had his $300, we got like a 12 hour block. Oh, damn boy. Now, does that mean producers are in there with you?

No, no, no, no, no, no. So then we get in there and he's like, all right, where's y'all's beats? And we're like, huh, it hadn't even occurred to us that we were going to need beats. And so basically, so we don't, you know, saved up all this money over a period of months to like. Sure. That's a lot of money at that time. And he's kind of representing to me, like he's, man, I know what to do.

I know what to do. But we get there and we ain't got no beats and we don't know how to make no beats, but the guy was actually cool enough to sit there and kind of like allow us to like, he basically made some garbage beat, but, you know, like held our hands there when we felt like we were doing this song and we recorded two songs and one was called nothing but game, Theo. Oh, it ain't nothing but game coming out my mouth, player, player. There was like the rap was like, right quick, I'm bringing tight shit for these jealous marks to jock, bailing through the parking lot with my partner spark to chop.

Now I'm feeling kind of strange, like my state of mind and change off that hurricane in Dink, I'm starting to think that I'm deranged, tight shit. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's how to make you feel good though. Oh man. It was the, it was terrible, man. Like it really was, but I was so proud.

I mean, I had something recorded on like a set tape and we could ride around and listen to it. I can feel it right now. You're like, we fucking got something. But the people, when I got to Athens, it was just that, wasn't that good? It was that one, Oscar, but basically like, I just felt like, man, this is it. Like I'm, I felt like I had already made it basically. You know what I'm saying?

Even though I'm still working three jobs and selling mid grade weed, like, but I'm like, dang man, like this is it. You know what I'm saying? Like girls come around. Yeah, I'm a rapper. What do you mean? Oh, I'll play you my song. You know what I'm saying?

You got a business card now. Oh man. Don't let me like still like a, a laminate from like a tour or something. Like so, so dead because Fashan, the producer that I ended up working with in Athens and all those guys, Bobby and Colt were close to Jermaine Dupri. They worked with Jermaine Dupri and they had like all these stuff jackets and stuff that said so, so deaf on it. So anytime I could like, I would try to get that jacket for a night and go just post up

and be right, oh, this whole thing. What do you mean? And so, um, just flexing. You know what I mean? It's like feeling like I kind of like manifested certain things by like, I would tell girls, you know, the Dungeon family is a big, a very important, um, um, what's the word? I mean, a musical family in Atlanta that consists of Outkast, Goodie Mob, like a dynasty or something.

I mean, just the, just the forefathers are the pillars of, in my view of hip hop in Atlanta, um, as far as representing Atlanta for real, for real, um, in a, in an accurate way. Um, the, but I used to tell girls that I was the, the white member of the Dungeon family. Like five years before, counting or whatever, no, like, no, I was the white rapper. Yeah. Like, and, and like there was, it was said, um, and I think it probably was said by Rico from Organized Noise, who was kind of the, the, um, the Dungeon was his mother's basement. You know what I'm saying?

His mother's house. You know, the Patriarch, is that a good way to put it? Yeah. The Airbnb owner. Yeah. For sure. And, um, and so I had heard that he said white folks shouldn't be participating in hip hop or something like that, but I was always like, well, he gonna love me.

He gonna love me. Cause I'm, I'm, I'm for real. Like I'm real with my shit. You know what I'm saying? I'm, I'm representing who I am, you know, and some Georgia shit, the right way. He gonna love me. Watch this. That's what I would tell like my friends, but I would tell girls that yeah, I'm, I'm

in the Dungeon family. What do you mean? Before I could, it could have even been anything remotely, you know, resembling reality. And I'd be damned if I ain't become a white boy in the Dungeon family. Manifest here almost. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So that's, I guess that's what I get from fake it till you make it.

You know what I mean? And, um, and you know, me and Rico, that's my brother. You know what I'm saying? The guy that allegedly had said that, I mean, he's, he's as close to anybody to me as anybody I've met in the music business period. So man, it's just crazy how life can unfold. You know, if you, but I, but I had so much faith back then, man. Really?

So you had faith in, you mean in God, you mean? I mean in God, but in, but in God's plan for me, um, just didn't, God had a plan for me. You know what I'm saying? To, to do something that was going to impact the world and that, you know, that I, I just always felt like I had a spirit man that, that, you know, I, I want to be an extension of whatever that, that ultimate loves, you know, love-based energy or spirit it that God is.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I always just felt like an extension of that because, you know, I like to, to be a purveyor of, of love and light, so to speak. You know, so, and I just felt like there was some plan where I was going like just have an impact on the world in some kind of way, you know, based on that. And, um, you know, in some ways it's worked out exactly how I could have drawn it up. And in some ways not, you know what I'm saying?

But it's been a hell of a journey, you know what I'm saying? And I still do not for one second question God's, you know, like involvement in the whole thing. Yeah. So that's just me, you know what I'm saying? People can, are welcome to believe anything they want, you know, in all of our experiences and our, our upbringing, you know, in our experiences as, as adults, everything shapes us, you know what I'm saying?

Our DNA, you know, is a part of that too. I just, um, I just believe what I, what I believe in is something that I, that I feel and it can't be quantified in words or, you know, it's just beyond us. But I know when I'm being creative Theo, like when I'm writing, when I really get in that zone, I, there's nothing I can ever do to feel closer to God or, you know, to, to just that, that energy source, that love, you know what I'm saying? Like I just feel it. Like I'm in such harmony in a way time can just disappear.

It's like I'm doing what I was put here to do, you know what I'm saying? And whatever whoever created me is pleased at this time, you know what I'm saying? And then it's like, I feel some, uh, like internal, um, turmoil at times too. And it's like, I'm not, I'm not, uh, doing what I was put here to do and, and, uh, that, that spirit is not pleased. Yeah. I can feel that too. I'm not abandoning though, you know, just, right.

Do you, um, where were we at with that? Man? I got a terrible, terrible, like, um, this is like the third podcast I've done and, uh, landing things. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I love talking about every aspect of my story, but I'm definitely trying to work on landing. Shit.

I think you've done a nice job. There's a couple of times we were like, well, let's finish this point before we go on to something else because I sometimes kind of forget what's, I don't forget what's going on, but it's hard for me to like, uh, remember and be thinking at the same time. No shit. Um, well put. So, but to go back to the, so at the studio, you know what I'm saying? So we get that, that song, right?

You want my fucking boy or in there? Yeah. Yeah. And he was, cause look, dude, I'm telling you, it's the first time they had a white dude that wanted to be black in our area, bro. They never seen it before. They put him as special ed, bro. Wow.

You hear that man? That's crazy. They put him as special fucking ed, bro. Shout out Brian Purve as dog. Praise God. What? Oh, he's still, he just got locked up for something. Bring him up.

Bless that. Free that man. Free BP. I don't know, bro. Y'all don't know what he did. I don't know what he did. I don't know what he did. That's true.

I had social studies with him and he fucking, he was, but he done been on the hell of a journey though. Oh, he's dude. He been through it all. He took those bullets. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. He really something happened to him.

Yeah. Uh, P you. He came up gang. Maybe right there. BP man. What BP do? What do you do? Attempted murder.

That's hypothetical. Yeah. Attempted. You know, we ain't paying the $4 to find out that said bitch. Happy Hunnica. Yeah. That's all we got for you, bro. But uh, stay well baby.

Yeah man. But they put him in there dog. Can't be good. Be good at it. They put him in there man. Damn. But you knew him pretty well. Y'all was, was y'all cool or?

We were cool for a while. He was hard to really get close to man. He just had that. He had that fucking rattle in him, bro. You could tell he never slept. Damn. He probably he didn't slept. No drugs.

No draw, bro. He had drugs built in. I was fucking in his neck. I think we know that now as mental illness. You know what I'm saying? Oh yeah. But back then it was just damn. Yeah.

This is what I was just, you know, he's lit. He was early. He was just, he looked like he fucking was early and late at the same time, bro. He was just, you know, his eyes never shut. He looked like he didn't sleep man. He maybe slept twice. Who knows what he went through man? Who knows what his whole life was like.

They made it where he was. Oh, he was. I'm sure. Where he stayed that wired. You know what I'm saying? Like I always, this is something I think about now and I'm sure you got some insight and a perspective on this too. What if we went back through history Theo and looked at every violent crime, every murder,

every, even rape has ever been committed in the history of planet earth going back. I wonder what percentage of those violent crimes were committed by people that had they had a, you know, a thorough psychiatric evaluation or mentally, it was mental illness. You know what I'm saying? It was something that, you know, at the time, just obviously there was no, there was nothing. What did mental illness, mental health even become a thing like last 50 years? Yeah. And it's even been like a, like a slow and, you know, jagged like a scent to where we

are now. But, but I'm just, I thought about that. Like if we, you know, there's, there's just something to be said for that though that like hurt people hurt people, you know, a hundred percent, man. Well they just had a guy on Joe Rogan, this guy, Gabbermate, Gabbermate. And he is like, um, I want to say he's a psychiatrist, but he's like a really good thinker. Some people are real good at thinking and he talks a lot about trauma and trauma is kind of a buzzword that people use a lot now.

But one thing that, that he was saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, that really resonates. Yeah. Yeah. That really resonates, bro. Yeah. That fucking resonates, bro. Raisinets, bro. Yeah.

So close. Raisinates. Um, but he was saying how like, like that, like pain and stuff can be transferred through DNA and I, maybe some of that's believable or not, but it can definitely be transferred through the way that you treat people and the new things that had like the way that you, it's so crazy how many times something happens to somebody when they're a child and then the same, they do the exact same thing. They do the exact same thing and it's interesting, man.

It is. And it's just a lot of like, uh, we're just now getting to the point too where we have so much reflection of ourselves because of, um, that's a good and bad thing. Right. It's a good and bad thing, but it's like we have such a recording of how people operate and behave now that you're able to see a lot of like, okay, and compare it, you know, right? Um, and just document it.

So I think it's like, we're getting to a point where it's like, we're really documenting how much pain has been like just in the, in the damn gene pool of humanity. And uh, and it makes you wonder kind of what the future will be like, will we, will we be able to solve that kind of thing or we will just be able to continue to just, because I don't think we are more aware of like, of just, you know, mental illnesses and, but I don't necessarily think that we've really figured out the best ways to treat them. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

To, to give somebody, you know, cause it's like, you know, I've been on, um, on meds before, you know, at different times and, and, uh, it's like, okay, I don't feel that way anymore, but now I feel this way, which is equally terrible or it affects, you know, some other aspect of my being that just makes it either worse for me ultimately or at best like just a trade-off, you know what I'm saying? So, um, you know, I just, when treating everything with, with chemical, with manmade medicine, you know what I'm saying? Right.

It might not be the way. Yeah. It might not be. You know what I'm saying? We might look in, you know, in 30 years, we might look back and be like, okay, we took a real bad turn as a society. Right. With trying that.

Like back in the late 1800s, when they were like drilling, you know, screws and people's foot, you know, in the, at your temples and they would like just kill that frontal lobe. That's how it would make people like chill out. Yeah. That's 125 years ago. And you had to pay for that dude to come over and your family's there like, how did that work? Yeah.

Literally. You're just like, man, that's crazy. You got birds laying on a little nail on your head. Man, this is insane. Your cousin coming to hang his hat on that little fucking spike. Literally, you're just like, for like 60 years, like, that's crazy, man. Like, who came up with that? Like, they should have done, I hope that that was what that person at some point in their

life. I hope whoever thought of that first and started doing that, I hope they had to experience it. Man, that's crazy. And they were also saying on that episode, just about how people take care of their children and stuff like that, like, just that there's not enough connection between families and stuff these days. People used to be in tribes.

A lot of that has been talked about in the past 10 years about how people used to be in tribes and we were closer. So not only did your mother see you, but your aunt saw you, your grandmother was right there. There was constant like, attention and evaluation of what was going on with you and that, that they think people developed the healthier then. I don't know if that's true, but it's just like a, it was a theory that that man was talking about. You know, I just, I think that this, the gap between human beings period is just getting

wider and wider. That is weird. You know what I mean? And we were talking about it last night, like social media, you know, it's designed to bring us all closer together, but ultimately it creates such polarized, you know, like views of things, you know what I'm saying? Like social media is probably as much to blame as anything for the way our country has, it's always been these two drastically different choices that we had when it came to political

stuff. You know what I'm saying? And I just won't say the record, fuck both of them, but, but it's like, because that's just not, that just doesn't make good sense to me. Like our two choices are these two radically different, like, like viewpoints and it's just crazy, but like social media has driven that wedge and just made it that much wider, that gap. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. It's, it definitely led to a lot more. People don't seek information. They seek affirmation, you know what I'm saying? So they follow things that they know are going to continue to feed them the same thing they've been on. You know what I'm saying? And sometimes I think each side is right, you know, at different times, I think the

sensible compromise of the middle is kind of, that just makes a little too much sense to me. You know what I'm saying? Like sometimes, you know, this way of thinking is going to be the best way to go about it. And then sometimes this way of thinking is going to be the best way to go about it. But you know, you'll have like these 280 character lists, like, you know, just what do you call it? Hot takes basically like of just saying something or reporting a certain event in a certain way

that's going to reaffirm to that group of people that, yep, see, I was right. You know what I'm saying? Yep. This is it. Exactly. And so, and then they, it's like the, um, hope, the old adage, um, a locking will travel around the world before the truth has a chance to put his pants on or whatever. I butchered it, but yeah, something like that.

But I understand it. Yeah. Yeah. People share stuff. You know what I'm saying? The next thing you know, it's just, it spreads. So like we used to play that game, the telephone game. And when you was kids, we'd play the telephone game.

Oh yeah. So you would just whisper and kill it. In this person, anybody, time it got to the end, it was somebody lied. Oh, we had one kid, bro. This is kind of fucked up, but he would just yell, the, when it came back to him, he would just say, was the N word every time bro. Smotherfucker. Yeah.

He was just, I don't even think he was, I think it was just mentally unwell, you know, but I thought that she was funny. Oh no, something's wrong with him, but he, it would be like hurricane. And it would break right. And every time and the teacher would fucking, but he just knew that word man. He knew it, like got a reaction probably. He didn't understand it, but like. He also talked about like Egypt and the pharaohs a lot.

He might've had mental disability. Right. So take me through, so the music is popping, things get going. I apologize, I like to talk about a variety of shit. No, this is great bro, this is what it is. This is the conversation. I don't wanna de-emphasize the fact

that I've had an incredible journey through music. But so yeah, so then I'm in Athens at that point. I'm starting to make some connections. And we ended up putting out my first album, my first major release on Beat Club, Timberlands record label, the first single Ugly was on this album. We put out an independent version of that album

by the same name about two years before the major label version came out. So that's where people started hearing about underground. They started spreading around Georgia. And it was like, people always talk about marketing plans. You know what I'm saying? And like, we gotta come up with the perfect, you know, when something's the shit shit,

it's just word of mouth is the marketing plan. And it was that kind of deal, you know? And I'm just blessed to have been a part of it and to have had that clarity at that particular point in time to be able to do something that people fuck with to that degree, but literally like one person, two people, two people, four people, four people, eight people, and so on and so on and so on.

And yeah, so pretty soon, and there was a lot of other interesting details, tidbits of information to the story, but short story long, basically, we signed with Interscope Records, you know? Jimmy Irving, the same. After, in 1999, when I first saw High, my name is, I was destroyed.

Why? Cause you thought he beat you at the point? I thought, at that time, as a white rapper, you pretty much felt like, I ain't gonna be with one more. Like, if one ever gets back in the door, it's just gonna be one. And then it was like, I saw that and I was like, whoa, he did it perfect, you know what I'm saying?

And I remember my best friend, big Steve, and I was just all depressed and he came and he was like, man, I think you got it fucked up, man. He's like, yeah, that's some awesome shit. He said, but you Southern, you're you, it's different. You know what I'm saying? Like, you still straight, you know what I'm saying? You still got your lane.

And I was like, keep it coming, keep it coming. All right, you know what I'm saying? And then I got back up, you know, eventually and got back to work. And two years later, I was signed to the same label as him, you know, yeah. Did you ever get to meet him? Yeah, yeah, I did.

I met him at the anger management tour in 2003. It was a crazy experience. I thought you were gonna say anger management meetings. That's what I thought you were gonna say too. No, no, no, he, you know, he was a, I don't know, he was a little, he was on the private plane like level, you know what I'm saying?

When I was still flying commercial, you know, or I'm still flying commercial, but I was definitely, you know, up there in first class and all that, but you know, he jumped very quickly to private plane level. You know what I'm saying? Where he was just moving at his own pace, but, but we met man and he was, he was very complimentary. You know what I'm saying?

It was probably the only time I've ever been starstruck in my life when I met him and him. It was just like, wow, that's really, that's the real Eminem right there. You know what I'm saying? That's crazy. And, but man, he was extremely complimentary, you know, of me and he always has been.

Even when there was a diss song where he dissed me and Paul, Paul Wall, that leaked and even in the diss, he was, I feel like he was complimentary of me. You know what I'm saying? Like he was, and he was actually, I don't know where the information that he, but it was, it was wrong, the wrong drug. He said I was on or whatever you know what I'm saying?

Oh yeah, I hate that. When people get your drugs. Yeah, man. It's like, come on, man. Like let he who is without sin cast the first stone, you know, but it is what it is. You know, Paul Rosenberg, his manager was always super cool to me and the whole Shady Records staff.

I never had a chance to get close to Eminem like that. As far as building like a super, you know, close personal relationship, but man, he would ask people about me. You know what I'm saying? Anytime he would see somebody that like, he knew fucked with me, he would be like, how's Bubba doing?

You know what I'm saying? Right. Like a couple times. So, you know, I got no respect for him, man. Love and respect. And so, but to go on back, so I was signed to Interscope Records for about nine months. And after having so much success,

Jimmy Irving, shout out to Jimmy Irving, just an absolute iconic figure in music and entertainment period. And that man believed in me a great deal. I still don't even necessarily understand, you know, what it was about me that made him believe in me so much. But he did, you know what I'm saying? And he's a genius, you know, type of human being.

So that always gave me confidence just to know that, like man, the baddest motherfucker in this whole business. I saw something in me. Yeah, like, he believes in me to the point where he's gonna push the maximum, the biggest button that Interscope Records, the number one label in music, you know, could push, you know what I'm saying?

$6 million spent on me in marketing. People know the name Bubba Sparks, you know what I'm saying? And so, but he, after the Eminem and Dre success, he kind of was like, I might be on to something with this whole get, you know, the black producer, white boy give him credibility, you know, off top. And so he tried a couple of other routes,

you know what I'm saying? As far as hooking me up with people and there was chemistry just wasn't there. And then, and then finally he asked me one night, he called me and he was like, I'm by the meat with Timberland. He's like, what do you think about that? I was like, oh, happy, perfect dude.

I was like, that's it, you know what I'm saying? That's it. Next morning, I was on a flight out to LA and the rest was history. And I was the first artist released that Timberland, as far as it being his record label and him releasing the artist, I was the first. Yeah, you was the first one.

I was the first artist he ever released. The first one, overall, right? Yes, yeah. And so what was your personal life like at that point? Cause life gets crazy, bro. When you start getting where. I was a young country motherfucker with millions of dollars and pretty much whatever you could have

in a budding, a spawning drug, you know what I'm saying? And just a kid man that just, you know, I just loved life at that time though. You know what I'm saying? We were just. Were you happy and re-stoked? Were you just living it up? At that time, man, on that first album,

you damn right I was. Yeah. You know, I was really happy, man. I was going to London and just. Dang, bro. Man, everything was so like, you know, performing on Saturday Night Live, man. You know what I'm saying?

Derek Jeter's the host. You know what I'm saying? Me and Shakira are the musical guests. Host cat? You know what, and I'm in the green room before, I perform on Saturday Night Live and they knock on the doors about 15 minutes far going and like,

Mr. Sparks, there are two guests here that would just like to say hello if you, if they're interrupting you or disturbing you, it's fine, they can come back later. But if they could just say hello, it's Chris Rock and Jamie Foxx. No. You know what I'm saying?

So I'm just kicking it like, you know, and I'm just like, cut your ass boy. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm just like, what's up man? You know what I'm saying? I don't know no other way to be. You know what I'm saying? Right.

And like I said, I didn't have a reference point of another example of somebody like me, you know, to show me how to act a different way other than just being me. Like I just, and it's like sometimes it's just because I, for lack of a understanding of any other way I could possibly act or be, I would just fuck it, I'm just gonna be me.

Again, I'm gonna keep being me and keep being me. Yeah. Sometimes it served me well. Sometimes it was fucked up, but. Well, there's a lot of parts inside of you obviously. No doubt. So those are, so that's really the highs, man. Yeah, that was great.

Did you ever perform on VMAs and stuff like that? I never performed on the VMAs. I like, I went to several VMAs like. Did you go to the one with NSYNC at it? When Eminem came out with all the different little. No, that was, I came to into the game the year after that one. I tell you, when I came into the game, I was sitting right here at my first VMAs

when Alicia Keys was at the VMAs playing, falling. Beautiful. Falling on the piano. And I remember just being like. I can't help falling in love with you. Oh man. Dude, I was just like, I'm here. I'm in this bitch.

Yeah. Dude, I remember I said, it was right after Chris Farley had died. I sat behind his brothers and I sat by Tim. God bless the day, man. Chris Farley, that was like, yeah. I sat by Shawshank Redemption, the guy, the prisoner. And,

it was like Tim Robbins. Tim Robbins, yeah. What was his name in the movie? Christopher. No, that's Christopher Robbins. I'm thinking of. I don't know, bro. That was a great movie.

That was crazy. And I fell asleep when NSYNC was performing, bro. I fucking fell asleep in my seat, bro. But Nelly came by and he fucking dapped me up when he came by. That was pretty cool. You fell asleep. Said I was a highlight then.

That's true. Just the craziest, bro. Afterwards, I got invited to a threesome with these ladies and one of them gave me some cocaine and I got all fucking scared because I'd never done any cocaine. Is that the story you told on Evel's Joe Rogan or something where you were talking about like,

the time you were like in New York. Now you were supposed to do something the next morning. Oh, that was with Daryl Strawberry. Yes, bro. You were interviewing Daryl Strawberry. Man, that was a tough night, man. That sucks, man. Well, just that.

I know that feeling. The fun part is fun, but the unfun part ain't fun, man. The inside out feeling and just knowing that you're, I functioned at about 36%. I get so much anxiety. But I was at this threesome, but I wanted to remember it.

So they had a bag of little sex toys in there. So I caught one of them on the way out, right? I snuck one and I put it in like my belt kind of, you know. So then I was in New York city. I went to like a little key bodega to get some snack or something, a little coconut water. They had just come out with coconut water and I tried it. And a little, I think I got a little thing

of donuts or something. But while I was in there, that little sex toy thing fell out on the floor in there, bro. And dude, it was like a migrant family, you know. There's no getting the shit back up in the bull. It was a Vietnamese family owned it or something, you know. And they had a little kid in there, bro. And he fucking brought it over to him.

He didn't know what it was, man. He just thought it was a toy. Oh, and I just, it was a toy, but. It was, it just broke my, the whole shit was just bad. But anyway, man. So you and I talked about when do you start to realize that you feel like you had some addiction issues? Well, you know, I pretty much just kind of like partied.

You know what I'm saying? It's like then I was in a snowmobile accident, ice fishing in Canada. It was like, you know, real fucked up. And I got prescribed like a, I mean, I had dabbled with like, you know, popping a lore tab or something, you know, not to mention specific drugs, but you know what I'm saying?

No, it's fine, man. I took some Somas one time and I drove into a driveway and there wasn't a driveway. Hey, the Somas ain't no joke, flexor reel and soma. Dude, and my buddy, this gay fella, RIP, Billy Comforto, he was like one of the first gay prize fighters in America. What is this?

This is Celsius, something. For you to catch. See what it's like hitting on. And I thought, I don't know if he tried to take it and manage me or what, but whatever. Anyway, bro, but what, uh, yeah. So when do you start to know that you had an issue? I was on tool with a Blink 182.

Shout out to Boyd Traff, Travis Parker. And, um, I had been prescribed Percocets for about six months and, uh, then they just cut them cold turkey. You know, I knew nothing about addiction or, you know, or physical dependence or withdrawals, dope scene. I knew nothing about shit. Then, um, shit about shit.

I knew shit about shit, um, and I had run out and I just think I'm just done with that. You know what I'm saying? And I remember I had this, um, this, uh, process, you know what I'm saying? I would, the bus would get into wherever we were going like that morning and I would go to the hotel and I would sleep till like three o'clock.

I would get up slowly, you know what I'm saying? I'd take a shower and stuff. And then before I would leave the hotel at like five o'clock, I would take, like, I think I would take two pills and then like four shots of Patron. And that would get me like in the go be me in public and, you know, start angling towards showtime, you know? And I remember I didn't, I obviously didn't have the pills

and I laid down trying to go to sleep like normal, 30 minutes later, I wake up sweating, just like feeling inside out. I'm like, oh shit, I'm sick. This is crazy. Like I think I'm just sick, like cold or flu or something. And I'm like, oh man. And I try to lay back down.

I maybe take some cold medicine, lay back down, can't, can't sleep. And I'm like, man, what is wrong? It's a unique feeling. This is like a, I've never felt this exact type of thing before and then it hit me. Damn, it's cause I ain't got no pills. It's like, damn, am I addicted to these things?

Like what, and I remember I talked to somebody like probably my manager or somebody and was like, you think I'm addicted to them? I was like, I don't know, maybe so. You know, it's like, were you taking more of them than you were supposed to? And I was like, yeah, I mean, of course. But I was just like, you know, I don't,

I don't know, I just, it was just a foreign concept to me. You know, it's just, that was definitely one of those things. Like I had known some, some addicts, you know what I'm saying? Some drunks, a lot of drunks, you know what I'm saying? But that's all they used to call them. Really? Yeah, right. And, but for me, I just never, nobody ever thinks it's gonna,

it could happen to them till it does, but I just remember being like, damn, I'm addicted to these motherfuckers. But I was moving so fast. I said, you know what, when I get to a stopping point, you know, arresting like area, I'll take care of it and get on off of them. But for now, I just need to buy them on the street.

You know what I'm saying? So I started buying them on the street, real heavy, what trade, chunky trades, I like the chunky trades, like seven years sober now or some shit. Gang, gang. Big Steve's 15 years sober. Wow. You know, I'm only dipshit that just hadn't been able to,

you know, find that willingness or whatever, like to, you know, I'm a thinker, you know what I'm saying? That can be a big fucking hindrance to recovery. When you create him, you create a lot of ways you can figure shit out yourself. Yeah, buddy, buddy. That's the same. I got, I just got like, I think I'm like one,

maybe 150 days maybe? Yeah, I remember talking to you. We were both like at the same time. We're on the same journey. I don't know if I have, you know, these days forever. We'll see. Oh man. But just to.

So people, so you started having to get them like behind the scenes? Yeah, so I was buying them on the street and sure story long, that was like in 2004, I think. And then I ended up finally going to rehab like pretty much at the peak of Miss New Booty. You know what I'm saying? But I did not enjoy that.

You know, you're asking, did I enjoy the, when I first came into the game, the ugly, when ugly was my first number, first ever release as far as a single and my first number one record. And that was a great time. But the Miss New Booty time, man. It was just trying to be in places, traveling around, running out of pills, just having the white knuckle

to be tough, you know what I'm saying, like and get through, you know, just big shit, you know what I mean? And things that I should have, you know, I should have been enjoying, you know what I'm saying? It was a huge record, you know, and just so many blessings came from it, you know? But my perception at that time was really fucked, you know what I'm saying?

But I remember I had like half a million dollars worth of shows over like a two month period. And I told my manager, Bobby, I was like, man, I gotta go, you know what I'm saying? I said, I can't do it anymore, man. I said, I'm about to get on, I'm about to check out of here or something. I don't know what's, and-

Like how was it, did it get pretty like, cause I've had, like I've had some time, I probably went to some strange, you know, I've been in some strange places trying to get some cocaine. You know what it was for me, getting chumped by people, like meaning like, I got the number one song in the world at this time. And these motherfuckers got me sitting

in this bowling alley for six hours. And it just, I couldn't take it anymore. You know what I'm saying? It was just like, man, I can't be a punk ass motherfucker, but so long. You know what I'm saying? Like that's just the way I'm, the way my account is set up.

Well, I want to do what I, that's hilarious way my account is set up. I want to do what I want to do, man. That's all, I've always been that way. Have you always been that way? But especially just to know that somebody, they on the phone laughing to their homeboys talking about, man, I got, man, I got him sitting up here

at this bowling alley, man, this shit crazy, you know, that kind of shit. And I'm just like, You mean waiting for drugs? Yeah, I'm just sitting there like, they're like, give you the money. And then they, they're going to ride up whatever. And it's, I'm sitting there for six hours on a Saturday

and probably missing some shit that I'm supposed to be, you know what I mean? And just, just, I, you know, I just couldn't, I couldn't do it anymore. You know what I'm saying? And then just tired of being dope sick, man. Like, you know, that was, that was the deal at that time. You know what I'm saying?

It was the opiates. You know what I'm saying? And, you know, I've, I don't go down the same street. You know what I'm saying? Like, like multiple times very often, you know what I'm saying? As far as that goes, but I would have never, at that time, I could have never seen there being a day,

a six hour period where I didn't use like some type of opiate at that time. And I thought I would never be able to get beyond that. You know, and I, and I did, you know, and I could, Suboxone's a part of my journey. You know what I'm saying? I could say that's the only way I was able to set, to stop and stay stopped as far as,

and people say like, you just traded one addiction for another. Yes and no. Because the difference is, if I'm out here taking rock, season, oxycontin and whatever else, especially this fentanyl world, that's going down out here now,

that's a whole different level, but when you take Suboxone, you can take four milligrams a day. This is just my experience now. You know what I'm saying? I'm not the judge, jury and executioner on anything. You know what I'm saying? My opinion in 250, I'll get you Coca Cola.

But- Man, you sound like Riff Raff, bro. Y'all got some of the same thing, man. It's real interesting. Man, you know, I ain't never met Riff Raff, man, but I know, it's just certain people, you just know you fuck with them. You know what I'm saying?

He's a special guy, man. He's cool. He's real creative too. Nah, man, I seen him do that shit he did with the tennis racket that time, man. Something most unbelievable shit I ever seen, man. He's a deep dude. And we got several mutual, you know?

But anyway, so, but you know, your tolerance doesn't go up on the Suboxone. You can take the same amount and it's never gonna, your tolerance is never gonna like, you know, force you to take more, whereas, you know, when you're taking the other stuff, like your tolerance is just gonna slowly build and build. I've always wanted to do methadone.

I've never done it. Yeah, I've taken some methadone, but not as like a solution, but just as a, that's all you got. But, but yeah, so, and. Did you think, a lot of times, like I've been in and out of the program for maybe six years, right?

Six years. Been in and out since 2007, so, what's that, 15? And I never thought I had this problem. I thought everything was pretty normal in my life, you know? And it came on really later in my, you know, I thought for me, but when people came in with opiate addiction, I always thought, to me, it seemed like you had people

that were real alcohol, except we're in there. But then some people just got so, like somebody goes in because they hurt their back. That's not a person that's, and then they get, I mean, people were getting so addicted. What's your mind doesn't know the difference, is the thing, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's just like, I know people,

my old sponsor, shout out to Stephen, came down on the grains, but he was like, I ain't taking nothing. He said, I don't care what happens to me, I ain't taking no pain medication. He said, my brain's not gonna know the difference. You know what I'm saying? That shit gets in my system, it's gonna do what it does.

You know what I'm saying? Regardless of the reason, being righteous, or, you know, it being prescribed by a doctor, or anything like that, you know what I'm saying? He was like. It feel like they made a cheat code when they made opiates, though, when they made like some of these opiates.

It feels like these companies, I mean, it's like they made so many more people addicts that were. Aw, man, you can't tell me it was, and I, you know, I could break it down even on a more freakier level, man. It's just like, it's very interesting to me that 2000, up to say 2008, there were pain pills everywhere. And you could, there's about three or four cities in America

you could get heroin in, port cities type stuff, like, you know, New York, LA, maybe Baltimore, New Orleans, you know what I'm saying? Like, you just couldn't get heroin in a lot of places, you know what I'm saying? And I would know, you know, especially like anything that was actually anywhere close to resembling actual real heroin.

And then, I don't know, we go fight a war, you know what I'm saying? In the Golden Tri, where the poppy fields, the most poppy fields are in the whole world. And I'm not saying that's the only reason that that war took place, or there's a primary reason, but here, fast forward to now, hell, it's damn difficult to get a pain pill,

you know what I'm saying? Like, a lot of, you know, parents of, you know, kids that had overdosed and died, started going to Congress, you know, started basically letting their presence be felt, letting their, you know, feelings be felt, you know, and voicing, you know, their angst and sorrow, you know, and I think some pressure was applied,

you know what I'm saying, for as far as the pain pills to tighten up on that. But then now, here comes this fentanyl shit, but even before that, I mean, they got selling heroin in Huntsville, Alabama, you know what I'm saying? Like, this shit's all over the place, but the pills were cleaned up to a large measure,

you know what I'm saying? But, and it's just interesting, you know what I'm saying? I mean, you know. I wouldn't be shocked if our government is selling our own drugs to it. I wouldn't, or somebody is, some bigger picture. Who knows who it could be? Like, you know, it could be some corporation

that just has that much pool and, you know, they just, you know, funded this one campaign of this one person who has the influence. Who knows, you know what I'm saying? Like I said, I just, I can only speculate because they damn sure don't invite me to the meetings. Yeah. Of whatever kind of shit they're running.

Yeah, I don't even, I don't even need any email. Yeah, for real, you know. And so I don't know, but those things, what Arsenio Hall used to say, things that make you go, hmm, yeah. I got to go on his show one time, that was a real highlight for me. Oh man, that would have been the shit.

When his show came back on, that was the first show I ever got to do stand-up comedy on was Arsenio. Arsenio, man. That was so epic when I was young. Dude, it was huge, man. And then in living color, bro. Yeah, living color.

You know, I used to watch Johnny Carson too. I actually remember watching Johnny Carson. Wow. You know, that was, I remember when Jay Leno took over for me and I actually ended up doing the Jay Leno show. Wow. Yeah, and Jay Leno used to do

the cool ranch Dorito commercials. But yeah, man, David Letterman did David, man. That's just, what a blessed journey, man. Yeah, you've gotten to have so many unique experiences, especially for, you know, somebody from. Not bad for a farmer with a pitchfork. Uh-uh, not bad at all. Man.

You know, my old high school football coach used to say, guys, you don't have to take a backseat to anybody. Rest in peace, Jim Holly, you know, and that's something that just stuck with me through life. You know what I'm saying? Anytime I feel overwhelmed or feel like, oh, I'm not worthy of this. No, no, you don't have to take a backseat to anybody.

You know what I'm saying? Anything or anybody. You know, you, you, you know what I'm saying? You worked hard to get here just like everybody else. You know what I'm saying? Like I say, you put your socks on one leg at a time, just like everybody else. I take shits, they take shits.

I fart, they fart, you know? You know, I like chalupas. They may or may not. They may or may not. Yeah, sometimes I think, my thing I struggle with sometimes, I mean, I struggle with a lot of stuff, but I really struggle with that thing. Like making, like what other people think of me.

Yeah. You know, that's always been really hard. I think anybody that says that they don't is either just not cursed with any self-awareness. And some people are just like that. Sometimes the biggest stars just, they don't have self-awareness. They don't.

Right, so they're not even thinking about the beginning. Yeah, but how do they hire people perceiving them? You know what I'm saying? It's like, Oh, it'd be a blessing. Yeah. And a curse. It would be a curse and a blessing, you know what I'm saying?

It's just the way it is with everything, but. But yeah, I wish that didn't, cause here's what I wish. I had a little bit more of my own. I wish I'd had a bit more, somebody helping me build my own self-worth when I was young. So I had a little bit more.

It just wasn't a part of the culture of growing up, you know, like that. Yeah, but some people got it because they're, you know, somebody told, I just feel like some people got it. I'm not like having a pity party. No, I understand. I just wish that I had a little more of it.

That's the reason, and it's tragic that you don't have kids. You know what I'm saying? It's tragic that I don't have, I know a lot of, and that's what we talk about. Let that gap between males and females that keeps getting wider and wider, you know what I mean? Like in the way that we connect with one another,

just what's your cash out? You know, like, you know what I'm saying? Like it's gotten a lot more like just out front transactional. It seems like, you know what I'm saying? And so I don't, since I got divorced in 2019, I haven't seriously dated anybody because I don't know how to fucking date in this world.

But that's a whole nother story. But I'm saying like, we're over 40, you know what I'm saying? And so like, I mean, I just know a lot of fucking kid, bro. I know a lot of real deal men that need to have kids. You know what I'm saying? Because I would like to know what a child with my stuff, I love my parents, man. It says that no, they did the best they could

with what they were equipped with, you know what I'm saying? What they'd been given. And they did a great job because, you know, I've done a lot of things and they're part of that. You know what I'm saying? And they love me, you know? But as far as just like believing in a child and like giving him the freedom to really like express himself

and encouraging him, you know what I mean? Like, and still being stern, you know what I'm saying? And being a disciplinarian, but just, you know, not discouraging dreams. And you know what I'm saying? Like, and they were just trying to protect me. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying?

By discouraging dreams, by saying, you know, that's just, that's just silly foolishness, you know what I'm saying? Like you, you need to, you know, have a different plan. You know what I'm saying? You need to have a practical plan, one that's realistic, you know what I'm saying? They just trying to, you know, but I know now that all that's bullshit, that's programming,

you know what I'm saying? That's fear-based programming, you know? And we can, we can do a lot in this world. You know, you know what? You're evidence of it. And so I would, for us to have children and be able to just, and it might go all, you know, awry. It might go awry.

Like, cause we might, they might, cause there's some craziness to the way we're wired too, you know what I'm saying? And they might, a little too much love and not quite enough rigid upbringing might make it where they just go be hellions or something. Right, we might go the other way. Yeah.

But, you know, I just know a lot of men that, Paul O'Donnell, Cliff Kingsbury, friends of mine that over 40 don't have kids. Cliff that coaches Cardinals? Yeah, yeah, that's my boy, man. Oh yeah, really? Shout out to Cliff. Yeah, dude, Cliff is a candy, bro.

We got to be real cool when he was coaching at Texas Tech before he got that job, man. And that's a great fellow right there, man. He seems real cool, man. He's a stand-up guy, man. I'm telling you, in every area. I think Cliff Kingsbury should run for president, honestly. Gang, bro.

I mean, he's just that kind of guy. Like, man, he can just relate to anybody. He's a principal guy. His principals don't get compromised for anything, you know what I'm saying? He stands on what he stands for. And, you know, I'm just using him as an example. Yeah, no.

Like Paul O'Donnell, great. You know what I'm saying? He's a brother of mine, not friend, but a brother, super producer, produced 32, 33 number one records. You know, don't have kids. I don't have kids. You don't have kids.

It's just, that was almost unheard of, you know, like in the 1950s or whatever, you know what I'm saying? Oh, you had the Kevin Kingsbury, the only thing you did. You know? You know, I worry sometimes that, honestly, I think I worry that if I did have kids, that there would be a, I somehow do the same thing. I think, I think there's probably some fear of that.

My girlfriend was pregnant at one time. This is like 2006. Yeah, like right around that same new booty time when everything was coming to a head. And she had a miscarriage at, I think it was like four months. And just in those four months, I know the way I felt, thinking I was getting ready to be a father. Man, it's a different feeling, man.

Like he's like, I gotta get my shit together because I can let myself down, you know what I'm saying? But I can't let a mini me down, you know what I'm saying? I gotta get it right, get it tight for this little joker right here. You know what I'm saying? I can't be playing about another life that's, you know, when I can only imagine a child being born

and looking at that child and seeing yourself in it, like some physical thing in your eyes or something. Just, I can only imagine how that would feel. And I never thought I wouldn't have kids, but I was kind of careful back in the quote unquote, hey day. Because I had so many friends that had multiple baby mamas and everybody's life was just miserable when that was the case, you know what I'm saying?

Like three baby mamas and, you know, they got two other baby debt, you know what I'm saying? And it's just, it's not good on a child. It's a good rover at Thanksgiving, yeah. So I didn't want that, I didn't want to be a part of perpetuating that type of deal. And so I was, you know, and then God bless my ex-wife. I think maybe with us, just by the time we actually got married,

maybe we were already kind of coming unraveled and it just spiritually just never lined up the right way. You think it'll still happen? Do you think about it? I haven't given up. I said, I'm not too like thrilled about the prospects of being 86 years old. My child's high school graduation, but, you know,

my dad was seven even when I was born, which is crazy, man. Pops, that's what's up. I only say that just because I keep finding myself talking to guys who are, we getting older and we don't have any children yet. So I started, I used to think my dad was crazy and I'm like, damn, I just, if I could beat him by 10 years, that'd be good.

You think it was just because we were just dream chasing, man? Like, you know. That's a good point, man. You know what, dream chasing was like, other things to me seemed boring, bro. It was like, I could go have a family. I pop, somebody had me and they ain't doing shit out here. I could go fucking do that in half hour if I wanted.

That's right, I felt that. I wanted some, I wanted to like, what can I do? I just did not. I was scared to death of being in my 20s or something and feeling like my whole life was planned out. Like, okay, so I'm gonna do this for like 46 years and then retire. Like, oh my God, like, hey, much respect

to anybody that works like that. Because I'm not cut out for it. You know what I'm saying? I'm not. Right, right. I'm not saying, yeah. I'm not saying it was horrible. I'm just saying I'm not.

I could not have done that. It was not for me. You know what I mean? It just was not, I would have, if I didn't have creativity, you know, this outlet of creativity that I have with writing, you know, recording music and stuff like, I would have probably already like checked out of here.

You know what I'm saying? It's that vital to me. And so just to be able to live that way, you know what I'm saying? To make a living that way, crucial. You know what I'm saying? But that's what I always tell people. Like, man, I'm gonna be 90 years old rapping.

Like, fuck, I don't give a fuck what you like or don't like, like what you say about me. And you know, oh, he old. Who cares? Like, still I made more money than you ever gonna make your whole life. But sorry, I had to. I had to.

Look good. A lot of people never get a chance to make millions of dollars. But my point is this is like, it's not a job. It's not a hobby. It's not like, it's a, it's at the core of who I am. It's a function of my spirit, man. Like, you know what I'm saying?

It's, I remember Jay-Z had a line where he said, get a grip, bitch. It's just how I get through life. You know, but how I get through life and how I always relate to that is this. You know what I'm saying? This is, you know, this was a, man, it's just been so special.

Like, like this, this art form, you know, shout out to those people, you know, the black and brown people in, in the Bronx, New York, in the seventies that, you know, were doing what they was doing and living the way they was living. And that all that form, this perfect storm that, you know, that this, this music and this art form.

I mean, in this culture, you know, sprung from, man, I'm just, I'm so grateful. It found me, you know, on the dirt road, 20 minutes north of LaGrange, Georgia. It's kind of wild, huh? Changed my life, man. Like, you know, so I, I honor that at every turn. You know what I'm saying?

Like there's nothing I put ahead of, I think hip hop is a religion. I mean, what, aside from like the quote unquote, traditional religions, name something that's brought more people together from different walks of life, worldwide, man, it's had, it's had quite the impact on this globe, man. You know?

Yeah, music, music ass. Yeah. I mean, but, but especially hip hop, because like I said, it's hip hop unified. You know, maybe it was just part of the, just the timing of like when hip hop kind of exploded, you know, onto, onto the scene. But man, there's just a lot of, like I said,

a lot of racist hearts, potentially racist hearts that could, or hearts that could have developed into, you know, being exactly what their, their parents and their grandparents, you know, and going on back down the line, were in the way they thought, you know what I'm saying? But I know people, you know, that, that, like I said, it might be just be that one thing

they could hang their hat on. Man, I love, I care so much. You know what I'm saying? I want to be racist, but damn, man. Yeah, man, like, yeah. Cause then you, cause the lesson to be learned is, you know, the 36 mafia shakes me up. 1000%, like, and the, the lesson to be learned is, is,

you know what? There's, we're all human, you know what I'm saying? So we all have flaws and you can't, then sweeping indictments and broad-ass generalizations, you know what I'm saying? Trying to lump everybody that looks a certain way into any kind of, you know, like bold that just says, all those people are just like this.

You know what I'm saying? I know. There's no fruit on that tree. I wish, I wish you could definitely make things easier. Yeah, but you know, I just don't, you know, I have brothers that look a lot of different ways. Charlie's my brother, you know, he's a black guy, you know what I'm saying?

I got a lot of black brothers, you know what I'm saying? I got some white brothers too, you know what I'm saying? I got some Mexican Puerto Rican brothers, you know what I'm saying? Oh, well. And so, you know, that's, a brother to me is someone that shares the same ideals and principles that I, that I have,

that I try to live by. Yeah, it's funny, man. I got this new fitness guy, this athletic coach, man. This black guy, man, I just love, he's like, I love being around the dude, bro. Yeah, energy, man. I mean, he like inspires me up, he inspires me. He like, and he's like one of the best fitness coaches, man.

That's what a trainer's gotta be too, man. It gotta make you just wanna be there, like to be near and just getting, getting as thick of a shit with it. Yeah, he does that, but it also it's on like even more of just like, I don't know, like just, yeah, it's like, man, it makes me, I feel inspired by him, you know? That's awesome, man.

That's great, man. I love, I love being inspired, like, I love being inspired, bro. That's my drug. That's my true drug. That's the reason I would ever do drugs or, you know what I'm saying? Like, because, man, if I'm inspired,

if, man, there's not much I couldn't do, bro. You know what I'm saying? Like, if I'm inspired, I really feel like I could have been president or something. Like, but if I'm not inspired, you might wanna get somebody else to help you care the groceries in from the car, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm pretty useless.

And so after, so going through, do you feel like that having addiction and struggling with it that it had an effect on your career? Do you feel like your career has played out? Just kind of how it has? Yeah, it 100% because first of all, right after New Booty and after that. Because that was a top one, that was like a-

Oh, no, that was a number one record, man. Like, you know, my Wikipedia, there's some- Oh, I didn't even look at your Wikipedia. Well, I've tried to change stuff on there, man. Like, I don't, they change it back. It's just crazy. Oh, they're fucking, that's a mafia, bro.

I don't know what's going on with that. But anyway, and I'm not fucking 5'9", either. And take that ugly ass picture off of there. Bro, my picture's horrible, bro. Bring my shit up, bro. It's the worst. Look at my Wikipedia, dude. I don't look like that.

Let's only decide who ugly. You know what I said, whoever controls the gates of my page, I must have fucked their girlfriend or something at some point. Sorry, I didn't know. Who's bad? Both of us got a bad one. Look at this picture.

Look at it right down on the right. Oh, damn, bro. Click on it. Oh my God. Dude, you look like a hit man at an Asia restaurant, bro. Damn, bro. Vladimir. You look like a Russian.

Like I'm in America trying to kind of dress cool, but like, it's like flea market shit, like. Now bring mine out there. My shit looks horrible, too, bro. I look like I've been struggling, man. My shit fucking look bad. Damn, look at me. I look fucking retarded, bro.

It just don't look like you. I look mentally retarded, bro. No offense if anybody's retarded, bro. Yeah, I mean, yeah. Shot every time. Shot every time. Me, too. I just remember.

If I look at them cross-eyed, I look something the wrong with me. I wonder how old that picture was. It was probably six years ago. Shit, I mean, that picture of me, that's the fucked up part about it. You got a nice outfit on, man. 2005, yeah, but I, like, you always say,

like, he's like, don't ever shave your fucking beard again. Like, that's what people say. I'm like, well, somebody should have told me that a little earlier in this process. There's a lot of pictures out there of me, but anyway, and I had this egg head, like I used to have this, I would be lazy and not want to go to the, to the like real barber.

I'm big on haircuts and shit now, but I just shave my own head all, you know, like, down to the scalp. Oh yeah, to do whatever. Yeah, I cut my hair for, like, probably 32 years, man. Yeah, man, that's it, you know, but it's... Or whenever I could, so probably only about 16 years. But man, you don't look bad there.

I feel like I look bad, but I feel like right there, you just don't look like you. It just didn't, that doesn't even look like you. Yeah, I went through a period I was trying to fit in in Hollywood and look more clean cut. Yeah, you look like, you know what you look like? You look like Dane Cook's, like, little brother out of shape brother or something like that.

Yeah, like Shane Cook. Shane Cook. He looked like Dude Dadder. Who? A blow move, Johnny Depp Dadder. He don't look like Ray Liotta. Man, right there on that part right there. Oh, I could maybe see him right there, man.

Yeah, I see him. Like the younger, like good fellas, Ray Liotta. I didn't kind of see that. Kind of good. Rest in peace, Ray Liotta, by the way. I know, nobody even cared that he died, bro. That's just the world we fucking live in, man. Nobody even cared.

These days, nobody's like, it used to be like, man. It's just like even a hit song now, man. It's like, you know, it goes up. Yeah, it's like you get a week, you know what I'm saying? And then everybody's on to something else. Well, dude, I remember we went camping one time when I was a kid with like a Boy Scouts or somebody. I don't know, could've just been a damn pedophile, bro.

Oh, Lord. But we was out there. We were all members. And I told everybody before we left, I said, you know, Jay Leno died. And they didn't have any social media. And so everybody the whole weekend was like, damn Jay Leno died, man.

And people were talking about it. Some guys, some kids dad was even crying about it. And then we got back and everybody's like, this motherfucker lied, bro. But nobody knew for three days. But it was like, Wow, what's the point of doing that? I think just I wanted to create some ambiance or something.

You know? And you want to create some like, what do you call it? Like not nostalgia, but like morale, like everybody. Yeah, we're in this, huh? Let's do it for Jay, huh? And, but I don't know what I was even talking about. But so take me through is, yeah. So let's just, so I want to be able to relate.

A lot of our audience struggles with addiction and just different things. That's a lot of audience. A lot of people do nowadays, you know, they were saying the other day, 70% of adults in America on one medication or at least one medication. So what effects did you feel like it had on you

as you started to realize? Man, so here's the deal. So when I first went to rehab and I got out, like that was the height of my career. You know what I'm saying? I just, you know. How hard was it to be in rehab while your career was going? Well, I mean, at the height.

That's the time when I was like, like trying to fuck everything with a vagina and breasts and stuff like, you know what I'm saying? So I was kind of on that tip. Like I remember like, but that's when I honestly, when I got over, you know, being a homophobe, you know, because there were a lot of people, you know, I kind of went down there on some arrogant stuff.

I'm withdrawing and I'm like, yeah, I heard y'all like to make people rule with gay people too. You put me in no room with no gay people. Really? Yeah, I was, man, I'm from, you know what I'm saying? I'm from the South, man. Like I'm a pretty enlightened guy, but I just, I'd never been around any gay people,

to be honest with you. Oh yeah, yeah. I remember seeing when they ran any gays until later. So we fear what we haven't been exposed to, what we don't understand, what just a certain like presentation and depiction of something that we receive. And you know, and one of the coolest,

couple of cool cats that I was in treatment with were gay man and some of the best people I've ever known. Oh yeah. And they just, you know what I'm saying? It's like, I was always so focused on black folks and white folks, because that's really what I was, you know, in the mud with, you know what I'm saying?

And so, but then I would be, could be judgmental in some other way, to some other group of people. It just, it was just so flawed me, you know what I'm saying? But being around that experience and meeting those guys and then countless other gay folks since then that I've had the pleasure of knowing, you know, it's, I'm just not fucked up with it.

I don't care, as long as you don't harm children, elderly people, mentally handicapped people, animals or just people that can't defend themselves, I'm not really judging a lot in this world, you know what I'm saying? Cause I don't know what the hell you've been through. You know what I'm saying? I don't know what it's like inside your head

and what your experiences have shaped you into becoming, you know what I'm saying? But there's just certain lines you can't cross, you know what I'm saying? And that's just the way it is. Cause if you do, we got to get you out of here. You know what I'm saying? Like you can't be messing with children.

You know, you just can't be, you know, just recklessly, you know, just pillaging humanity, you know, helpless humanity. But so after- You went to the rehab. Yeah, I blamed the music industry and music for, so I went two years without doing music. Didn't, I didn't really go to the studio one day.

I was going to NA meetings. I mean, I was going to, you know, 12 step recovery meetings. And- Were you getting better? Yeah, I was, but at the same time I wasn't, I was pretty much just, I had some pretty goodness. At that time I had some pretty good recovery.

But you know what it was, man? I just wasn't, I was just sitting there, you know? And it got to a point where I started going to do shows and it was kind of tormenting, like, you know, going in these clubs and just not being that, that atmosphere of recovery internally. It just, it just got weaker and weaker and weaker. And but it got to the point where cleaning sober,

like I really wanted to check out of here. You know what I'm saying? Because it just, I guess I just hadn't stuck around long enough for the, for that spiritual change to happen or whatever, even though it was a long time, you know what I'm saying? Over a year. And I don't know, I just, it just was really, really excruciating and I was just white-knuckling it.

And I mean, finally I was just, I had no, it was either pick up a pistol or pick up a drink, you know? And, but you know, I can say that like, you know, I, then the next time it was like, drinking really became an issue, you know what I'm saying? I didn't go back to the pills or anything like that. But, you know, being an addict,

like I'll make anything enough if that's all there is, you know what I'm saying? Or if I've got myself convinced that that's all, you know, all that I can allow myself to do. You know, I can make anything literally like sex, you know, like any external thing, man. Like if I like something, I'm probably gonna do it until it makes me sick.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I mean, I can do that. I can totally relate to that, man. I will find anything to take me out of the present month, you know, to kind of take me away from having it. The McRibs are back for a month. I'm just gonna eat them until I vomit. McRib, you know what I'm saying?

Whatever, you know what I'm saying? Like I just, oh man, if you had that new this or that, this new thing Taco Bell's got, you know, I'm gonna go, if I like it, I'm just gonna eat it until I hate it. Yeah. You know, a person, a woman, like, come here. Oh, I love you, I love you, I love you. You know what I'm saying?

Like, oh, we hate each other because, you know, because we're toxic and, you know, we're, we're like, we're round each other too much. And you know what I'm saying? And it's like, we melt into each other and you don't, you've lost perspective on who you are as a person. You know, because we, I just wanted to just

give me, give me, give me, you know what I'm saying? Fill up this hole inside of me, you know? And as I've learned, you know, that hole can only be filled with, you know, the spiritual component really. Like, and that can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. But it was really all, I think all we want is peace.

You know, and this wasn't peace, man. You know, at this point, I don't know. I just, I know that I have given a lot to my addiction. You know what I'm saying? I can't say I lost it to my addiction. I can say, you know, I volunteered, you know what I mean? Yeah. But at the same time, like I, I couldn't just,

because it's been what it's been, I couldn't imagine it any other way. You know what I'm saying? Because I don't know, you know, my best friend, big Steve always says that, you know, when he went into rehab the first time, and he's been, he went to rehab one time and he's been sober.

So he, oh six, so 16 years. I mean, he works in recovery. Oh wow, yeah. Yeah. And he quit playing football. And, you know, and started a whole new life. And he says, if I kept playing, if I hadn't just like abruptly just started

a whole new chapter, he said, I wouldn't have been able to stay sober. You know, but me, because you don't, it's not like Brett Farr of your body starts letting you down and you age out of, you know, making music. Right, he's still in it. Yeah.

And so like, you know, I kept going, you know, it's just like, I don't know what else to do. It's like, you know, it's just so, it's ingrained in me, man. It's just, like I said, a function of my spirit. And so then you start going back to other parts, you know, of it as far as like doing, because I really, the studio I can handle, but it's that road, man.

It's hard. Yeah. That road is what's going to ultimately always take me back, back to drinking and, you know, then ultimately some type of drug or whatever. Yeah. You know, that's one of the toughest things, man. I was, I was in so much pain. I remember sitting in my garage one day and saying,

man, I'm just, I wasn't even doing anything. I was just sick of myself. Yeah. I'm like, man, I'm so, how do I, I'm just, I am literally sick of myself. Man, I love myself. All I could think about was myself and it was kill, it was just like, I don't know what it was, man.

I'm so, I'm in awe of how great I can be, like how amazing I can be. Yeah. And I'm in awe of the piece of shit that I can be as well. You know what I'm saying? And it's like, it's crazy, man. I just, I, I know other people must be like,

what the fuck is wrong with you, man? Because like, you know, cause people, the people closest to me have been experiencing it just like I have, but even me, I'm like, what the fuck? You know what I mean? Cause I've never, the only thing I've ever been consistent at is being inconsistent. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. And I don't know what it is, man. It's just something about something within me. It's like, I had a therapist shout out to Richard Lee, Richard Lee Nielsen and Atlanta. He said, he called it the saboteur. You know what I'm saying? Like this, there's just something in it.

He said, you just, there's a part of you, you know, inside of you that just wants you to be unhappy. Just, there's a part of you that wants you to be unhappy. So like, that's like the self-destruct mechanism of like, things are going great. You know what I'm saying? I met this new girl, you know, got this new situation, whatever, things are going great.

Ooh, things are going great. I need to fuck some shit up, you know what I mean? Like, and it's not a conscious thing. Yeah, it's not even a conscious thing. That's what's amazing sometimes is I got this little motherfucker inside of me that wants to, you know. He just likes to get a ride back up, don't feel like.

It's the same reason why I told people Jay Leno died, man. It really is, bro. I told everybody Jay Leno died. But it really is. It's cause something inside of me, there needs to be, I need something to be messed up. Cause it's the, oh yeah, I feel. I gotta have somebody to fight, you know what I'm saying?

Like, you know, or an idea that I'm fighting. Like that's the, if I don't have that, I'm pretty much useless. Like, I gotta have the edge, you know what I'm saying? Something to light that fire, you know what I'm saying? I've made up stuff and tricked myself into thinking shit or whatever, like just to come on, let's get going. But yeah, that's crazy, man.

But it's funny because it might be just, this is exactly the way, that's why a lot of times I believe I am exactly where I'm supposed to be because even if I behave that way, that's the same way I behave that got me to where. Yeah, exactly. Exactly, the double-edged sword. You know what I'm saying?

And I think about that all the time too. It's like, that it serves us and it just, it destroys us too. Like it's like balance, I think is the thing that, if we have like an ultimate purpose as far as internally, what I feel like we're supposed to accomplish while we're here is to learn some balance. You know what I'm saying?

Like in some discipline, you know what I'm saying? We're gonna suffer pain. It's either the pain of discipline or the pain of regret. And I've suffered the pain of discipline at times and I reap the benefits and I've not been disciplined at times and unavoidably the other pain of regret, man. Yeah. It's hard, man.

It's also hard, you know? It's not also like it's easy, but man, I can just totally relate. And nobody's got, like everybody is saddled with something. You know what I'm saying? Just because a person doesn't have the same issues that I have, and that's true humility, you know what I'm saying? Is that self-awareness of understanding that,

you know, I used to think humility was like acting inferior when you really thought you were superior, like being sheepish, like, oh no, this whole thing, you know, just whatever, like, no, I'm not cute, whatever the fuck, you know what I'm saying? Just not taking compliments well, all that kind of shit. Like that's being humble to me, you know what I'm saying? But I've come to learn, you know,

as I've grown and experienced life, that humility is more like just kind of, like a true understanding of self, like I got some good qualities about me, you know what I'm saying? I got some good shit going on, man. But I also got some fucked up shit, like that I need to work on, you know what I'm saying? And I'm in the process with it,

with working on those things, and I'm okay with where I'm at. And I understand that I'm no better or worse than anybody else, you know what I'm saying? People just have, some people don't ever identify their strengths, you know, or, you know, it doesn't register with them that, dang, this is how I can benefit from my strengths,

you know what I'm saying? Like I can make a living or help others or whatever, you know what I'm saying? And so they just never turn them up, or like shine that light on them and get them all the way, you know, hitting on all cylinders. But you know, I've just been in instances where other people, you know, like I'm good

in a social setting, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm a cocktail party superstar, you know what I mean? Like, you know, just, I can shoot the shit with anybody, man, I get that from my pops, man. And so people that aren't good in those types of settings, that aren't like personable people like that, I used to count them, maybe like, look down on them a little bit, like,

oh man, you just ain't fly with it like me, you know what I'm saying? Like, until I was in a situation, I don't speak on what the situation exactly entailed, but where I was completely lost. And a person that maybe I looked down on because they didn't have a social, quote unquote, social skills that I had was in their element.

And it saved my ass big time, you know what I'm saying? And it just further hammered that point home. Like, we all got some shit that we're good at, you know what I'm saying? We all got some shit we need to work on, man. We're all humans, you know, it's- You're all gonna need each other. Yeah, I mean, I promise you we are, man.

I know. I promise you, you know what I'm saying? It's just like any time, whatever group that you say, you know, like, they're the problem. I promise you, you're gonna be in a situation where you need somebody from that group. I promise you, I've seen it too many times. I mean, it's just, that's just the way

the universe sorts shit out, or God sorts things out, like however you wanna look at that. You know, but I've seen it pop up repeatedly in my life, and just, you know, other people that wanted to be judgmental, you know? Cause we just, we all, it makes us feel better to some degree to be able to just blame other people for, you know, something that's not going right,

you know, in our own lives. But, you know, it's bullshit. Life's just gonna life, man. Yeah, and it's interesting, like you said, in the beginning, like if you could look at life through a whole spectrum of time, it's unfortunate we're only able to see life a lot of times, or a lot of us are, just as right now,

we're not able to see the past 3000 years. We're not able to see it all. It's always right now. Right. And if we could get a whole, if we could really spend life like this and look at the spectrum of things, it would give us all a unique perspective.

And maybe that's the perspective that's coming along in the future, like you were saying. Yeah, cause I think even like, when I was talking about like visiting battlefields of old battles and stuff, I think there's obviously becomes like a sicko element to it. They just go back and just like, they're just there with like this hot chick or something.

You know what I mean? I'm going to take this broad out to the yin dynasty or something. Now this joke is going to figure out, not even that though, but like people going back in time, like jerking off. Yeah, type shit. Dang bro, that's going to be sad man. But that's just humans, man.

But you're going to have some dude going back in there. The ultimate beauty humans, humans we encompass the ultimate beauty, you know what I'm saying? Like in the ultimate fucking ugliness, man. It's like, you know, our greatest gift is probably, like if you were some like evolved, like alien species, you know what I'm saying?

Just looking at us, you'd be so envious of the fact that we can feel the way we feel. Cause if you devolved to a point where, Yeah, you don't have, there's no love. There's no emotion in you. It's all just like logic and survival. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, imagine the alien comes back

just to see like a mother hug a child. Yeah, or to see somebody crying because their girlfriend broke up with them. Yeah, and they can't even have tears anymore. And they've actually evolved into just being one gender and they like spawn every spring. And that's how the new, you know, the new, the gene pool, like that's how the new, new people come.

Yeah, like, so there's no, it's just one gender. Like it evolved into that. Like that's ultimately what it feels like. We're kind of being prompted towards, you know, but um. Somebody come all the way back in time just to see a breast or somebody's dick. Yeah. Cause they don't have it.

Just envious of just like, but also like, man, y'all are stupid as hell. Yeah. You know what I mean? Y'all feel shit. Why do y'all want to feel shit? Y'all still feeling shit, yeah. That's so played out.

Man, feeling. Look at these people still feeling it. That's why y'all keep them blowing up shit and doing everything. Y'all be in your house feeling this shit, you know? So there's something to be said for, you know, you couldn't imagine a life without emotion and feelings. And cause it kind of is what drives us,

you know what I'm saying? But I mean, it's just the double-edged sword that pretty much comes along with anything. If you think about it, like. Dude, I think you have such a, I just am fascinated by your perspective, man. The perspectives you've been able to live through and the perspective that you've been able to

not create for yourself, but learn and evolve into as you've grown. I don't rule anything out, man. And I just, I'm teachable, you know what I'm saying? That's one thing that I committed to always just be coachable and teachable because please present me with some, I beg anyone out there,

present me with some new information that either improves upon some bad or dated information that I'm using, you know what I'm saying? Like please give me some new information. If my information's wrong, I welcome it. I encourage it, I need it, you know what I'm saying? So, and sometimes it may not come from the people that you would want it to come from

and the way you would want it to come, but hey, I can't tell help how to help me, you know what I'm saying? Like so, you know, and that's just, and it's just about, I just wish more people would just be unconditionally open-minded, you know, because man, it's just, you know,

I got into astrology recently, you know, or in the past couple of years and really started learning more about it, even though for most of my life, I was like, whatever, I just use it as a way to pick up girls. What's your son? Oh yeah, mom, what's your son?

Or look at that. Yeah, this is a conversation starter, but it's starting to make sense to me that, in the future, it could be certain aspects of astrology could be looked at as science because it only makes sense to me that now, if you were born at a certain time of year, in a certain place, the air pressure was,

you know, this at that time, the humidity level, like all these things that we may not know, they could have a major impact on the way a human mind and body and spirit develops. You know, I just think that it's gonna be, in the future, at some point, it's gonna be a lot more credence to stuff like that, you know what I'm saying?

And I think, whereas religion, not religion, religion is just a man-made, in my opinion, just something that man-made as a way to, you know, to- Try and connect to a higher power. Yeah, but I don't even think it was that. I think man can connect to a higher power by himself, by herself, but I think in some ways, religion was just to control people, you know what I'm saying?

It's like, when you look at various religious institutions, I mean, it's hard to say that, but what are they saying in that movie, the Da Vinci Code or something like that? Oh yeah, just watch that. Well, he was like, asked a guy about God and he said, no, don't tell me what man has told you about God. Tell me what you think about God, you know what I'm saying?

And it's like, man, it's like anything I'm told by a man, I'm just no man or flawed, you know what I'm saying? Men and women are very flawed. So, you know, who knows what kind of bullshit might be attached to, you know, the reason that they're telling me this, you know, and that's not to say that I'm just would rule it out, but it's just to say, I can't just accept it

as just what it is as my concrete fundamental truth. You know, but, you know, religions helped a lot of people, you know what I'm saying? And, you know, I come, my mother and father are Christian, you know, and I'm a Christian, I would say, you know what I'm saying? But I'm just not gonna just, you ain't gonna just piss down my back, tell me it's rain.

I mean, be like, okay, no, it's rain, you know, I'm gonna investigate things for myself, I'm gonna think for myself. Oh yeah, some of that's piss. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I feel you. Yeah, it's warm, and why three y'all standing back there? Yeah, man.

Why three or four y'all standing? I know y'all been drinking down beer all day, like, y'all ain't got out the pool one time. Bro, you and Riff have got to get together and talk, man. I would listen to that for hours. Oh, I love to talk to him, man. Y'all sound so much like the same, mom. We gotta get up, man, for real.

Dude, yeah, I just feel so grateful to have gotten to spend time with you and... Yeah, it means a lot, man, that we finally got to do this, because it's a long time coming for sure. Yeah, we should go grab something, y'all gonna eat or something. Yeah, we'd love to get something to eat.

We'll go right down the street. If you wanna check out more music, what else can they expect, what's going on? I mean, honestly, I've put out music with the exception of the two years that I was talking about, which really set me back, because that was at a time when the internet

was starting to dictate music, musical styles and trends, evolving at a much more rapid rate. So, and that was like the worst time to take two years off. So it took me a while to just get caught up, and honestly, I feel like I'm better now than I've ever been.

I was blessed to work with some really great producers early on, and so I was good always, but I benefited from working with some great people, you know what I'm saying? Whereas now, I'm kind of like able to be a more self-contained entity on my side. I can go into the studio by myself and write a hit,

you know what I'm saying? Like every aspect of it. But I'm putting out music pretty consistently, man. Like I'm about to, I'll get kind of like in a lull for a year or so, you know, maybe do some other stuff, and then just at some point, I'm gonna get riled back up on it, man,

because it just calls me, you know what I'm saying? It's that real to me. And you know, you're fortunate, as long as I'm breathing on this planet, if you like listening to my music, if it just doesn't make you vomit, you know what I'm saying? The good news is, as long as I'm breathing, as long as my mental faculties will allow me to do so,

I'm gonna be rapping. Or there are other, yeah, because there's no one that's sound, there is no one still that sounds like you. I was listening to a bunch of your music this week, and there was, I can't even explain it, and I don't think it needs to be explained. That's why it's unique.

Well, you know, man, it's like, what I like about the way you do your thing, man, is it's like, honestly, the first episode I ever saw was Boosie. Oh, yeah. And it was just dope, man. I was like, this is weird to me. Like, why is, like, this is just strange to me.

And then you started talking and realizing, for bad rules, like everything. And I was like, this is fucking New South as fuck, man. This is like dope as hell. You know what I'm saying? And I started getting into just the authentic way, because look, every person that's ever been born into this world has something unique about them

that sets them apart from every other person that's ever been born into this world. You know what I'm saying? We all have something in us that just separates us from everybody else, doesn't make us better or worse, just makes us us. And to me, great art, whether you're a quarterback, a painter, you know, a musician, a comedian,

great art is about the ability to make whatever it is that makes you unique and different from everybody else and special, translate into your art. You know what I'm saying? And so I just really get off when I, when I encounter people or when I'm able to observe cats that are doing that, you know what I'm saying? It's like, dang man, like nobody can compete with that.

You know what I'm saying? If you just truly like get in your own lane and even the attempt to compete with it is a loss, you know what I'm saying? It's like, you know, you just can't be another person, you know, and we're all inspired and influenced by others. That's not to say, you know, I have influences, many influences, I get influenced by things every day.

And I'm not scared to, like I said, give me some new information, like, you know, inspire me in a different way, whatever. Yeah, but to really be, that's the scariest thing, I think, is to try and be yourself. And that's so fascinating that. So when you do finally learn who you really are and embrace it and accept it, you cherish it, man.

You know what I'm saying? You cherish it. And you definitely, I'm sympathetic and empathetic to people that haven't been able to discover themselves or embrace, you know, who they truly are, because I know people out here that can't, that haven't been able to do it for themselves. So they vent that angst from not being able

to figure it out for themselves by, you know, judging and throwing stones at other people, you know, that, and that's just the way it's gonna go, man. You know, it's just hurt people, hurt people, but then lost people get people lost. Yeah, I would love to see you. I feel like you have such a calling to be able to cook. Just, I mean, you already doing it,

but your ability to communicate, man, it's really strong. And it's not, I didn't know, I didn't have a super strong idea of what you would be like as a human outside of what I've seen of you or heard of your music. I've done a pretty bad job, honestly, of just, you know, I've kind of hidden, you know, it's been a rough, you know, like I'd say last five years and I was just, you know, us being, you know,

the way we are as, you know, addicts or whatever it is that we're saddled with or blessed with, however you wanna look at that, isolate, you know what I mean? Oh yeah, man. You know, and I get away from people in places and things or anything that could potentially cause more discomfort, you know, that gnawing self-centered fear,

that fear of nothing in particular is just like, if I go out there, I'm gonna melt, you know, like just baseless, but yeah, and I'm, and you know, I got some good people I work with, Charlie, you know, it's also a brother of mine, my boy Boogie Jason, like just people that are some good people around me, man, when not necessarily, some people left me, a lot of people left, some were justified, some weren't.

But there were also a lot of people that, I walked away from, you know what I'm saying? I withdrew from everything and everybody at a certain point. And so the people that were still around me, like, and they weren't tapped, that's not something they signed up for, you know what I'm saying? To be, to have this responsibility of fucking like salvaging or trying to get, you know what I mean?

Oh yeah, yeah, we're confusing folks, man. You know, and it's like, and it's like, all I can ever promise somebody like that is the good's going out way to bad, but, you know, it's, it's, I just been blessed, man, like that man sitting over there, man, I would not be here on this planet breathing. Really, he saved you a couple of times, huh?

I mean, not like, not like literally no, but just, you know what I'm saying? Like just, there was, there was nobody else. Yeah, there was just nobody else. He was just ended up, you know, with that baton, you know. And it's sad, cause I don't know sometimes if I could do that, if I'm real, I don't know if I could love somebody that, you know, cares.

Oh, he didn't, I mean, trust me, he didn't want to. Like he, I think he, at certain times, you know what I'm saying? Like we done been into it, you know, and, and, but he, you know, he ain't perfect either. You know what I'm saying? So it's like sometimes, sometimes the quote unquote, sick one can, you know, can, yeah. Yeah, the sick one got to be there for the sick one, man.

Yeah, you know, cause we all just some old stupid ass human motherfuckers, man. Dude, I won't, I'll tell you this, I won't listen to well people a lot of times. I can only hear. That sounds like somebody is bullshitting to me, like, you know, a well person. Yeah, I got to hear from somebody that's sick,

or that's, you know. We was talking about that last night, we were talking about how, you know, just that therapeutic value, you know, of one act helping another. Like when you know somebody's been through that shit, you know, the same, you know, and, and, and just attraction over promotion, you know, just, we were just talking about all these,

these different principles and concepts. And, and, yeah, I can, I can, you know, God bless anybody that's, that's, that's coming from a good place and trying to help, but I really can only be helped by somebody that I can relate, you know, cause I've just, you know, we just feel like terminally unique. And was it terminally unique and fatally cool or something like that?

Like, basically like I've, as I've always felt like, not, did that just, I couldn't just relate to, to people that, that just hadn't experienced like a, and we all experienced pain. That's not what I'm saying. But it's almost like somebody that's like, would inflict pain on themselves. Like we do, you know what I'm saying?

It's like, you know. Yeah, I'm a super, I'm a superstar with an inferiority complex, something like that. Yeah, I mean, well, I'm a people pleaser that don't give a fuck when nobody thinks about me. And that's the real deal. But you gon' maniac with the inferiority complex. You gon' maniac with the inferiority complex, man.

Just a crazy son of a bitch. A lot of us are out there, man. And a lot of us don't even know that we have this, that, you know, that they, that they have some element of it. You know, and my old sponsor, again, used to say that he was the people that pick up the drug or the drink or whatever, they're the blessed ones. Because that gets us that much closer to the solution,

whether we pick it up or not, hey. But some people go through their whole lives. They never find the thing that brings everything to a head where they do identify the fact that they got some shit wrong with them. You know what I'm saying? So they just go through their lives red, restless, irritable and discontent and no idea why.

You know what I'm saying? God, that is a, that is almost like a hell. Yeah, I mean, I know some people very close to me, I would say they fall into that category and there's just nothing and they'll talk at you all day about, you know what I mean? Like, you know, you just got to be strong and all this stuff, you know, but it's like,

I'm just sitting there seeing the quote unquote disease like all manifest itself in that person's life. And, and that's just not even a conversation they're willing because they attach it to the drug. You know what I'm saying? You know what I mean? Well really, that's just a symptom. You know what I'm saying?

It's the, it's the us problem. You know what I'm saying? I never had an issue with drinking, man. I never, I like, I didn't like drinking. I had to go pee. Like we probably all have to right now. I had to go pee, bro. And I hated having to go pee

because I didn't want to miss being around people. And so I never liked drinking, man. Now I liked something, I did start to like cocaine because it, and drinking was, it took too long to feel some type of way. I wanted to, cocaine was like, you could feel this, you could feel this. And that hangover is awful though.

Oh yeah, it was horrible. But I never, so it took me so long to realize that I had all these alcoholisms, that I had all this restless, irritable, and distant. I self and me. Yeah. It took, because there was no like, it was so hard to pin the tail on the donkey, man.

Yeah. Cause you want to attach it to a certain substance or something, you know what? Really it's just, that's your solution for a while. You know what I'm saying? Whatever you pick up, that gambling, that food, at first it's your solution. It, it quiets the, the beast.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, cause I don't want to sit here with myself. I don't want to sit in the fucking moment, bro. Because at some point in my life, when I was a kid or a baby or whatever, the moment wasn't, it wasn't good for me. Right. So it was not a safe place to be.

So anything that keeps me, cause the moment can see you clearly. The moment is a fucking mirror, you know? And I don't want to be right there, man. Cause I don't, you know, I mean, we could go all day about it. I literally just thought that made me break out in a sweat. We could go all day about it, man.

No doubt, man. But look, man, I'd love to chat again sometime. And I just think you have such a, I'm, I feel grateful to have heard some of the things you said today. And I mean that. Man, I appreciate that. And I'm glad that, you know,

we don't, you don't need to isolate cause we need you. Thank you, man. Thank you for real Theo. Thank you for giving me this opportunity. Oh yeah, dude, you, you coming in, man. I've had so many people that were so excited, bro. So it's a blessing, man. You know, cause you know, that's another thing too,

is just, you know, in your head, you're like, I don't know about it. I got this thing where I think people when I, at my shows that people pay just cause they hate me. Like it's, it's sickness. You know what I'm saying? Other sickness. So I don't think nobody gives a damn what I got to say

or nothing, you know? That's just where it takes me, you know what I'm saying? But it's good, it's good to hear that. And it's good to hear you say all those kind of things. Yeah, man. I just think because there's not, there's no other you, man. Like you said a minute ago,

there's no, I mean, look, man, I was listening to some of your verses a couple of days ago and I was like, nobody has whatever this is. Now they have different versions of it in his show. And they got newer and older versions of it. And they got some things I don't have. Right. Agreed.

But, but I got some, I mean, you know. It was, yeah. I mean, I, you know, I, I, hey, I'm blessed, you know? And we all are, you know what I'm saying? Amen, bro. That's the, that's the unique, that's the great thing about, you know, the, the way humans are set up, where our accounts are set up.

You know, it's like, man, if you just, we all got some qualities, man, that can, that can be redeemable, you know what I'm saying? It can, we just got to, you know, what we feed will flourish and what we starve will die, you know? In our own spirits. Yeah, man. I got to, I got to start feeding the good spots, man.

We all do. We, we all got to, you know what I'm saying? That's got to be vigilant as far as that goes. Because I damn sure, I'll tell myself a fucked up story. Oh. And when they say whatever story you're telling yourself is true, you know, so. I know, when I get tired of living my old story, man,

that's, you know, I get tired of, sometimes I start to realize, man, is this, you know, whether it was your story or whether it was your truth or not growing up, how long you want to keep telling yourself that just because of what it makes you feel like today. This is just who you are. This is just what it is, you know what I'm saying? That's the big, you know, that's the biggest cop out, you know?

And I'm very guilty of it. Yes, thank you. It's resignation almost, but it's like. But it's hard when it's giving you also the flint and the steel. Cause you feel like you're going to lose it all. You know what I mean? If I, if I, if I, if I diminish any aspect of it,

then it's all gone. If I don't have my story, then who the fuck even am I? And it's kind of, it's kind of happened to me like that before too. Like I just, I'd rather die than, I'd rather keep going way beyond the gates of insanity and hell than just sit there mundane and just like, that ain't it, bro.

Like that's not, you know, and like I said, sometimes maybe I didn't put in enough work. You know what I'm saying? Inside the, you know, the program, whatever. You know what I'm saying? And so I didn't ever reach that point where I could feel that peace and that freedom and, and still have my good shit. And then it's an ongoing process even from there.

It's not like it just, it just happens one day and you're just like, oh, I'm good now. No, then it's an ongoing process too. And it's like, how much do I want to take care of myself? Cause there's a part of me that don't ever want to take care of myself cause it ain't even my fucking job to do it. And that's the part too inside of me sometimes that this is somebody else's job.

Why do I have to do it every day? You know, I still think like that sometimes and some of that shit's hard to kill, bro. But I felt like I was in nine meetings today. No, that's what I feel like too, bro. I feel like that too, man. And I've been in the program for five and a half years, six years and I've only, I'm still,

I just got to step nine two days ago. That's crazy. We'll see, you know, the particular fellowship I was in like just the steps are worked slower. You know what I'm saying? You know, with the workbook and stuff. And that's the fellowship I prefer. But I know like, you know, some of those,

some in other fellowships, you know what I'm saying? Like they, you know how I used to do in the old days like you worked all 12 steps over the weekend, you know what I mean? But. Yeah, you hear stories about that. Yeah. I mean, you know, cause it's when you break it down

to a simplest form, you know, what the steps are actually trying to accomplish. It's really not that complex a process. You know what I'm saying? It's just, you know, cleaning up and, you know, and. Yeah, trusting in God. Yeah. Cleaning house.

Cleaning house, you know, doing, taking a real realistic inventory of yourself, trying to make amends for the wrong you've done, you know, and, and then trying to help other people. That's it. That's it. Will you help me today? Bubba Sparks, thanks so much for spending time, bro.

Thank you Theo. Much love, brother. Hey man, tell Riffraff, I'm only, I'm looking for one. I'm going to send him this link. He'll fucking love it. He'll love it, bro. He's one of us. Hey, look, he loved to hear his name.

You know, he loved to hear people care about him. Man, there's no, it's just, it's a joke that me and him hadn't, you know, that we hadn't connected already because I know we got several mutual friends and stuff. Yeah, y'all have to, man. Thanks again, Bub. Much love, Theo.

Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves are must be cornerstone. But when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind. I found I can feel it in my bones. But it's going to take a little bit more time.