This Past Weekend - E421 Retired Police Officer

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Starting point is 00:02:44 there so you get fairly and accurately priced tickets and not no secondary tickets. Thank you guys. I look forward to seeing you return to the rat tour. Hey guys, I want to thank you guys for tuning in. I also want to just offer up the disclaimer that today's episode contains material and stories and discussions that can be pretty graphic. They contain violence. They contain some gore. They are real stories that this police officer went through and so we want to leave them in to honor and get the experience of what their life is like. If you have a problem hearing that sort of thing, if graphic content, some of it can be sexual in nature, some of it is just contains some violence, then this may not be the episode for you. I just want to let

Starting point is 00:03:50 you know that in advance. Thank you guys so much for the support. Today's guest is just a regular police officer. That's who he is. And he also he made his way up to detective at some point. And he's not a media figure. He's not a, you know, some gun puppy or you know, a you know, he's just a he's a he's someone who served. He's someone who has protected and served to the best of his ability. He spent 20 years on the force or forces in the Los Angeles area. We're grateful for his time today just to learn what it's like. Today's guest is a detective and officer retired, Mr. Brad White. Dude, thanks so much for your time, man. Absolutely. Yeah, really, really appreciate it.

Starting point is 00:05:13 Yeah, I'm excited to learn about, so you've worked as police. Police. Detective. Detective. And a narc. I was in narcotics. No, you were a narc. I was in narcotics for a while. Oh, dang, bro. Yeah. Dude, they would always accuse people of being narcs when I was young. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's 21 Jump Street. Yeah. Oh, I remember one time like we went in the woods to smoke some weed or something and like it was like where you put the pen to get the can and put the little holes in the can and then you put the weed on there. Absolutely. And right when I went to like hit it, like I breathed out for some reason or like kind of sneer like coughed and it blew all the weed out of the bowl and just onto the ground. Absolutely. And people were like, you're a fucking

Starting point is 00:05:58 narc. You know, people call me a narc. I think somebody, yeah, I think somebody fucking hit me in the back. But anyway, so, so as an officer, we're going to get in like, you've had a pretty crazy career, we're going to get into it as an officer, take me say if I go on or like a ride along with you, right? Your first week on the job, we go on a ride along when you are a cop. Okay. What's that like? You're saying that it was my first week on the job? Yeah, I'm just trying to put myself like it right like right there in the past. Okay. Well, first off, the first week of the job, the first time that they actually put you out in the car by yourself, you know, I was 21 years old. So I remember driving out of the parking lot and, you know, getting ready to pull on that

Starting point is 00:06:40 street and I'm in full uniform, you know, I got a shotgun, I got a gun, I got a police car. They're basically going out saying go out and do what you got to do. And I remember the feeling of it just going, these people are fucking nuts. You know, this is crazy. I'm 21 years old and, and, you know, I'm in this uniform and they're literally sending me out to do what cops do. So it takes a little bit, I remember at the starting, it took, it took a while to get used to, you know, it's a tremendous amount of power. Oh, I can't imagine. That reminds me of even just when I got my first car and I'm driving off, I'm like, okay, I'm leaving home. I'm just, it's me out here. I can't imagine if there's also weapons, weapons, shotguns, whole, whole crew of guys out there

Starting point is 00:07:17 with you, they're going to back up, whatever it is you do, you know, there's a, it's pretty substantial for a young kid, especially at that age. I can't even imagine. Yeah, too young, 21 is too young. My belief is 21 is too young. I think, I think there needs to be a little bit, you need to be a little further in life, but, you know, they pull them as early as 21. Wow. So you're rolling out there 21, you got the guns, you got the weaponry, your cruising, are you like, is there part of, is it excitement too? Is it just fear? What is it? You know, there wasn't a lot of fear, a ton of adrenaline, a ton of excitement. You know, you've already gone through a long process, the academy where you've been, you know,

Starting point is 00:07:54 gone through a lot of training and, and seen a lot of scenarios and heard a lot of stories. So, you know, when you first get out there and you get out on the streets, it's, it's pure adrenaline. I don't ever remember, I don't ever remember being initially scared. Okay. Fear wasn't really a factor. It was just too big. The group was too big. There was too much. I mean, you got a gun for God's sake, you know, you're, you're going out on your own. So what music did you listen to? Like, what song do you put on that first time about now? Uh, actually, none. I didn't. When I got into narcotics, when we would go to search warrants, we would always, all the guys would wear, you know, headsets on the way to the, to the location.

Starting point is 00:08:30 We always listened to our own music. I, I listened to, uh, for scenarios like that, I listened to Dan Zigg, mother. I don't know why, but that was a big one for me. So your children not to go my way. Yeah, just the, yeah, just the lick itself, but I actually would listen to, um, my generation, you know, I would listen to a lot of, uh, easy, easy, six in the morning, you know, stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. Six in the morning, police at my door. Okay. So you're out there, someone you're riddling your first week. What's, is it get kind of wild your first week? What's that like?

Starting point is 00:09:02 No, it's just getting used to it, you know, just kind of figured out how it's done. Again, it's a tremendous amount of power and, and everything's new. I mean, I can remember being 21 years old, going into domestic violence calls and, you know, going. You haven't even had any domestic violence in your own life. I didn't even have a girlfriend at that point. I didn't, I didn't know anything about relationships, but you would go into these situations where people were in turmoil, you know, and there was real problems and they would look at you and go, you know, what are you going to do? What are we going to do? And I remember thinking in my mind,

Starting point is 00:09:31 like, well, I got no fucking clue, you know, would you ever call your mom, be like, mom, what should I even do? No, I never call my mom. I never call my mom and ask her, I probably should have, but you just kind of wing it. You know, it's, it's really changed the way I look at everything, those scenarios, because there was a real expectation, like I knew what I was doing, especially being young. They just, because you're in that uniform, they think that you know what the next step is as far as solving the situation. And, and you really don't for a long time, you wing it, you know, within the law, there's all kinds of statues and laws that you

Starting point is 00:10:01 all follow. But when they start asking for advice or, or, you know, it's crazy, the expectation that you have a clear understanding of what to do in any given situation. And the situations vary. Yeah. So it must be crazy. So like a lot of times you are, when you encounter someone, they need, they're having the worst day or it's their, they need help. It's like, the look in their eyes, it must always be one of like panic or fear or. Yeah, generally you're dealing with people's worst day, no matter what it was, you're never going to a scenario where people are happy and things are going well. It's always bad situations, even it's as simple as a ticket, you know, for some people, a ticket's like humongous ordeal. Oh yeah, dude, you get a ticket, dude. I remember,

Starting point is 00:10:42 I got three tickets for, I went to court for my first ticket. So. I got my first ticket. I actually got my first ticket on the way to being sworn in in downtown LA. It's first time I ever drove in downtown LA. And I made an illegal U-turn and ended up getting a ticket, even showed the guy the paperwork saying I'm getting sworn in. I'm one of you guys and he still wrote me a ticket. And we got to make those quotas. Yeah. That's what they say. So tell me like one of the craziest things that kind of happened out of the gate, like something that's kind of wild. The first time I witnessed someone die. Wow. Which is in 20 years, there's been quite a few of those. But the first one I ever watched was a, I got a radio call. I was very young. I got a radio call in the LA area

Starting point is 00:11:30 and it was with a subject with a gun and they gave us a description and when I pulled up to the location, it was like a like a waffle, not a waffle house, but like a chicken place or something. And I saw the guys out front, based on the description, it was a kid wearing a red puffer jacket. And as soon as I pulled up on the kid, he bolted. So chase him a little bit with the cars as long as I could. Eventually he started cutting through businesses and so on. So I'd go out on foot. We had a foot pursuit that went on for a little bit. I chased the guy through, you know, some parking lots and so such and the kid ended up running into the street. I believe it was, it was right at Manchester in Gramercy and the kid ran right out into the street without checking

Starting point is 00:12:10 traffic and he got hit by a car. I was, I don't know, 20, 30, then probably not even that far, probably about 20 yards behind him. So it was right in front of me. He was hit at full speed. It was, it was, it was brutal. It was brutal. The kid, he was a mess, you know, and it was the first time I ever witnessed someone die. Wow. And so are you at that point, do you, are you still like in pursuit? Or at that point, it immediately you recognize, oh, this is a bad situation. Now this has changed. There's just a lot of dynamics to that because there's a lot of civil, when you're a cop, there's just a lot of civil liability and no matter what you do, you know what I mean, even in a scenario like that, when you're, when you're going after someone that has, is in the

Starting point is 00:12:55 commission of a crime, the fact that they're running from you and you are chasing them, it puts you in some kind of civil liability for it. That, that I realized at a later time at that point, because I was so young, it was just, it was overwhelming. I mean, I couldn't even talk. You literally had to stop and I lost my breath. I remember losing my breath and not being able to, to breathe for a second just because it was just, it was incredible. You know, I just, it probably happened like that, like that. And it was brutal and it was, and you just, you just don't even know how to react, you know, it's, it's, unless people come out of their shoes when they get hit like that. Yeah, people do come out of their shoes. People come out of, yes,

Starting point is 00:13:35 people come out of their shoes, people, I can, traffic accidents are probably some of the most simplistic, horrific things that you experience for sure. And so when that guy gets hit, do you have to go render aid then? Do you? There was no aid to be rendered on this one. But yes, yes, I can give you a lot of examples of having, having to render aid in situations that were, you know, an example being another simple thing that you respond to a drowning in a pool. You know, I went one time to a kid that had drowned in a pool and you want to talk about panic. You want to talk about adrenaline is you get a radio call, they give you an address and I'm old enough now, I'm retired. When I started, there was no Google Maps. There was none of that. Basically,

Starting point is 00:14:18 it came over a radio. You had a little pad of paper in the middle of your car. You wrote down the address real quick. You had a Thomas guy. Oh yeah, I remember that. Yeah. Shit, and 50,000 page Thomas guy. So many pages in there. And then someone, somebody would steal a page. Yeah, well, they wouldn't steal that a European, right? They would steal out of the public. Right. Now I can't go to seven square blocks of the city. I can even if I want to, right? These ones we would mark up and tab so that it was a little easier to access. Okay, so you got a little bit of like filing in there. But you want to talk about having a heart attack, you know, I'm trying to find this and realize this is a situation that's time is of the essence. But you would get to these, you would,

Starting point is 00:14:56 you know, lights and siren, the adrenaline was pumping, you're going, you're hoping and making a wrong left turn or something and finally getting to the home. And in this scenario, I'm telling you about it was a child, very young, had already been this, it was deceased. When I got there, for whatever reason, panic, whatever, no one had gone into the pool. I think the scenario was the mother couldn't swim. So she was on the, the steps standing there, you know, got rid of the equipment I could jumped in the water, got the baby out, the baby was very obviously gone. And but even in that scenario, I remember administering CPR just for the optics of it. Yeah. You know, just to show I'm doing everything I can, because you want to talk about pain and

Starting point is 00:15:41 panic. You know, you talk, you observe a mother, which is another thing that was, that was frequent and very difficult to deal with is watching that pain and panic. So I remember giving CPR to a child that was clearly gone until the fire department got there. And they usually take a while because we're on the street. So we get there really quick. Any 911 call comes in, goes to the police department. They dispatch a cop, then they call the fire department, and they come because we're in fire department. You got to get eight guys on the truck. It's so hard to get eight guys to do anything. You know, if you've ever been to Vegas or whatever, you know, it's like you try to get guys to go do anything. It's like nearly impossible.

Starting point is 00:16:21 Wow, man. Oh my God, Brad, there's so many moments in there of like, you've gotten this child out of the pool. You are like now almost returning this child to the mother in a way. I mean, physically, you're bringing, you know, like they expect you to be able to solve it. Is there any of that? Essentially, yes, there's hope, you know, but it's really, it's the optics. It's just I'm doing everything I can, right? Those kinds of situations, the panic and the pain is so overwhelming. And that's something people don't take into consideration in police work. It happens a lot. There's a lot of stuff. I can tell you so many scenarios like that where, where, you know, you're doing everything you can, even

Starting point is 00:17:02 though you there's just not a lot you can do. Right. You're just a human. Yes. And but what they don't teach you, at least they didn't when I started in the academy, number one killer cops of suicide. Really? Number one killer cops of suicide. They just have a gun. Yes. So you're halfway there if you want to. Gosh. We had a guy that was in the police department right next to us and ended up getting to his car and with his, the duty shotgun blew his head off right before he went out for the shift was supposed to start. But the number one killer is cops. They never tell you that. They never talk about mental health. I went through the entire academy. They taught me how to put on a tourniquet, heal a sucking chest wound. They

Starting point is 00:17:42 taught me so many things, but they never made one mention of how to, you know, how to work with your own head. Well, you know, they never said suicide is number one killer cops. I think that's changed. I know it's changed, but it's getting a lot better. But at that point, there was no mention of that. And these things accumulate. I'm giving you one portion of one day. Oh, I can't imagine, especially like, you know, like I grew up with a lot of childhood trauma and a lot of people have, right? And it's really common. And and that is tough enough to deal with in regular life as it comes up later. And you realize there's ways that it affects you as an adult, right? Yes, I can't imagine. Whatever traumas you already have or things that could have happened in your past,

Starting point is 00:18:26 and then you're now just engulfed in this, you're like a, do you feel like a dam for trauma for people? Like, do you feel like a reciprocal for me? Yeah, because there's so many things. And then you just have to go on to the next call. Is there? It depends, you know, people don't take it, it's just that there's no way to really understand all the things that you experience just in the shift, right, let alone over a 20 year career, especially if you're working different assignments. I could tell you so many stories. If you could ask questions, I'll think of something, I'll tell you a story that you'll just go like, holy crap, you know, from the simplest thing of I had a, I had an old lady that was at a church meeting at an El Torrito, El Torrito in Whittier, and she

Starting point is 00:19:09 ended up collapsing. She had a heart attack. And we got the call and we get there. And by the time we got there, there's a bunch of old women that are in a circle and they're betting on her probably. Well, they're doing, I think it was, they're doing tongues, you know, they're praying and tongues and all kinds of craziness going on, but no one's doing anything. And I remember giving this lady, and at that point we had these respirators where you could, it's like a bag with the thing goes over the face, so you don't have to put your mouth on them. Well, I had ran in and forgot it because it was in the trunk. So this is another woman that I gave CPR, going back to more CPR stuff. And she ended up vomiting in my mouth, where my mouth was on hers in a way that

Starting point is 00:19:45 it forced past my throat. So I vomited immediately when I came up off of her on top of her. The entire scenario in itself, now I laugh about it when I tell the story. But it was just traumatic, man. The whole thing was just traumatic. They laid it up passing, they transported stuff. But the whole situations, I'm giving you minor ones, you know? Right. Well, yeah, I'm sure she vomits into you, you vomit into her. I mean, I think that's a... Honor. Yeah, that's a wedding in some countries, I feel like. I don't know what some of the rituals are, but I think if you're in like Laos or something, you guys are hooked, you guys are itched. So she came back at that moment and survived for that moment. The fire department got there, apparently she had a pulse

Starting point is 00:20:27 when she left. So I was feeling pretty good, but I found at the end of the shift that she had passed. But there's so many. So tell me, give me a call, like give me the first call where you have to go into a place. Like what's it like when you have to walk up with your weapon out? That has to seem crazy because then you're like saying, okay, I'm in control. It gives other people a sense that you're in control of everything. I guess it does. Things have changed, you know. Things have changed for law enforcement. When I first started, I started right at the Rodney King time. Okay. That's right when I started. So when I got into law enforcement and I was a rookie, things were starting to change. People want the world police. They just don't want to know

Starting point is 00:21:12 how it's police. That's true. And with technology, there's come the ability to see more of what policing is. And at that point with the Rodney King thing, things started to change in law enforcement. They started to change the process because police work was really hard to look at. You know what I mean? And that dissemination of that information wasn't very prevalent because you didn't have social media, podcasts and all the different things that we have now. So when I started, it really started to change as far as how we address things. You always hear people complain about, oh, he gave me a traffic ticket. When he walked up to the car, he had his hand on his gun. And that is just a routine part of your training,

Starting point is 00:21:56 is that you have no idea what you're walking up to. You walk up to someone. You pull someone over for speeding and you walk up to their car. You have no idea what you're walking up to. You don't know who it is. You don't know what they've done. You don't know where they came from. You have no idea what's going on. Yeah. We had an officer that did traffic stop and there was a body in the truck. Oh, wow. He didn't even, he gave a ticket and left. The only reason we found that out is he got pulled over again. They found this ticket going, this guy's got pulled over an hour ago and they ended up finding the body in the truck. So the first guy didn't find the body? No. No. So the guy thought he got away, but he got pulled over again. But the whole gun concept of

Starting point is 00:22:30 it is things happen fast, man. Things happen fast. You will die in a hundredth of a second. People don't realize that. That's how you put your hands on the steering wheel, yada, yada, all the things that we say for our safety. And there's this expectation by the public of, if someone comes at you with a baseball bat, high as a kite, sweating shirt off, crazy as, you know, and the expectation with the public is, well, you got to get a baseball bat and you got to fight him with a baseball bat. Right. It's got to be fair. You know, you shot him, all you had was a baseball bat. And for me, guys that are cops, you hear that and you just go, that's insane. Do you really have an expectation of me to get in a baseball bat fight?

Starting point is 00:23:08 Yeah. You know, I'm not here. The only thing a cop is trying to do is trying to stop the situation. He's trying to eliminate the threat. Right. If there's some dude roving around with a baseball bat, I think you got to take him out the game. Depending on the scenario, like anybody, if you're in your home and someone breaks into your home, you still have an, someone breaks in your home in the middle of the night today, you still have an obligation to prove that you were in fear for your life. Wow. So if there's some guy standing in your bedroom and you wake up and you look and there's a guy standing there and you grab your gun and you eliminate the threat, you're still going to go to court and they're still going to try to prove that you were not in

Starting point is 00:23:44 fear for your life. Who's going to try to prove that? Is that more lawyers or is that more the actual criminal because he doesn't want to go to jail? It's going to go, it's just a whole process. It's going to go to the detective. The detective is going to take it to the district attorney. The district attorney is going to take a look at and make a decision. Is this something that we get that this guy violate the law? Was he justified shooting this individual? So in that process, they'll look at it. Where was he shot? Was he shot in the back? Was he shot? Which there's an argument for that. Someone breaks into your house, you see them, you're scared, they take off running, you chase after them with the gun and you end up shooting at them

Starting point is 00:24:18 in the living room as they're going from the back door. All of a sudden, you're up for murder. To a point. Yeah. And the whole thought process of that is, I don't want this guy to leave. What if he comes back? I'll never be able to sleep again. You know what I mean? There's a justification on your part. It's clear. This holiday season, if you're looking for a new gift that will inspire somebody and help broaden their life and branch their life out verbally, then you want to look at Babbel. That's right. Babbel is the language learning app that sold more than 10 million subscriptions. And that's a lot. Think of 10 million people learning something and think of it being a language and bam as Babbel. With Babbel, you only need 10 minutes

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Starting point is 00:26:43 rest. That's right. Right now cancel unnecessary subscriptions with Rocket Money today. Go to rocketmoney.com slash T H E O. Seriously, it could save you hundreds per year. That's rocketmoney.com slash Theo. Now, can we carry guns in California? If you have a CCW. Okay. How do we know if we have that or not? You have to get it. It's like a license. It's like a fishing license, you know, a little more complex. California is tough. California is tough to get a CCW. You go to Texas, it's a lot easier. Yeah. And the logic behind that is like I personally believe, I know the big debate right now is guns, no guns, get rid of guns. That ship has sailed. Right. We are inundated. Right. And if we did do that, we said bring all your guns in. The only guys that are

Starting point is 00:27:32 bringing their guns are guys like me. Yeah. You know, the bad guys ain't bringing their guns. No. So that ship is completely sailed. So the idea for me is I feel like we need more guns. I think we need more guns in good people's hands. Wow. So how do you know then do you like do, like how, wouldn't you say good people? And do we need all types of guns? Like you see these young kids are, you know, a lot of these school students, you see people getting guns, like these high powered rifles and stuff. I, for me, I feel like if you haven't served with that gun, you know, like militarily, I feel like you shouldn't be able to have access to that gun. Right. Like, because at least then there's some, you're at least putting it in the hands of maybe

Starting point is 00:28:16 if someone that has some semblance of a purpose knows how to use it, I guess. I don't know. For some reason that helps me a little bit think about that kind of stuff. But to think that like someone needs an assault rifle, like a 20 year old, it just seems, that seems crazy to me. You know what, it does to me too. I'm not a gun guy. Since I retired, I've got some guns that my dad had since he's passing the safe. I got my one gun I carried on duty. I don't have anymore. Obviously, a lot of cops are gun guys. A lot of guys have AR-15s, you know, you name it, MP5s all the way down. I don't see the necessity for them. Again, you're going back to the problem. The problem is, is we can't get rid of them because all we'll be doing is taking

Starting point is 00:29:00 them from the good people. Right. And now we've got a whole bunch of, and when I say bad people, just people that would use that gun in a negative way. Right. You know, in the commission of crimes or whatever. So again, that ship is sailed. I'm not a hunter. I can't imagine killing anything. I even have a hard time fishing. I'm not that guy. But their justification always is hunting. Is it necessary? No. But I mean, it's a waste of time. The ship's sailed. We just have to deal with what we have now. There's no collecting guns, not in this country. Yeah, I agree. It seems, it just seems almost like a battle cry that people, it almost seems like people in use it to just incite. Like it's a nice dream. Yes. But it's just unrealistic. And also,

Starting point is 00:29:44 this country was kind of founded on somebody pulling a gun on somebody that didn't have a gun. I feel like maybe, I don't know, I wasn't there, but if like troops pulled the guns on the Indians, and I just wonder how much of that really goes over through time too, you know. Well, I think the big argument for gun nuts is, is that it's the government. You know what I mean? To never allow that situation to happen again, where this power that is policing us. That makes sense too. Can inflict their will on us. Well, that makes sense too. Especially now with like social media platforms, like people, you can't even say certain things. Yes. So people's voices have really been,

Starting point is 00:30:20 I'm not saying they've been ceased because we have a voice here today, but they've certainly been corralled and earmarked with expectations, I feel like. So at that point, you're going to have a really tough time if people don't even have their voice anymore to take people's guns, you're just going to have a tough time doing it. It's just a conversation. It's a waste of time. Right. It's like, it's, it's, it's all, it's across the board, all those conversations, the, the big conversation now and racism. Wouldn't that be wonderful if we can end racism, but we're never going to. Yeah. It's always going to be here. So we need to, that cry needs to change. It needs to be an individual accountability. That's the only, that is the only path that we have,

Starting point is 00:31:00 is individual accountability. Yeah. You know, there's always going to be bad people, you know. Yeah. What is that? Is that your phone or mine? Yeah. It is. It's okay. Do you need it to be on? No, I don't. Oh, a few minutes ago, it made that sound and made me nervous. I thought I had a damn life alert bracelet that I forgot about. Life alert. So tell me this, tell me about, let's, we'll get back into some of this stuff, man. And it's really interesting. And thank you so much for, for sharing your insight information and just some of your insight, you know. My pleasure. So taking on some of the drug stories, because that's this part that seems kind of crazy. Do you ever roll up on some people and they're just

Starting point is 00:31:33 yacked out of their brain, bro. And it's that late night hour, you know, maybe just some hookers, lurking or something like, because I've been there myself. Something's wondering how we, I've never had it where the cops show up, you know. So I'm just wondering, there's that weird edge though, where you're like, damn, a cop, you know. I've had in-narks and out-of-narcotics. I'll give you a patrol one. Very early on, middle of the day, I remember it was hot, it was summer. We got a call about an individual in the middle of an intersection naked. So we drive down to the intersection and we're talking about a busy, busy, I had started in South Central. Busy intersection, middle of the day, huge, huge dude

Starting point is 00:32:15 in the middle of the intersection, butt naked, covered in sweat, going in circles, which was causing in the middle of the intersection, people to slow as they were going through. So what he was doing as they slowed, he would run up to their car and try to dive through their window or break the window out. And then people would panic and take off and leave. This was back when I started and PCP was a big deal in Los Angeles. And based on what I saw, that's pretty common. Guys on PCP to shed their clothes. And was that more of a drug? Some drugs are used more in certain communities. Was it more of a black community drug, a white community drug? Was it more of a poor drug, a rich drug? It was a black community, Hispanic community. Again,

Starting point is 00:32:58 I can't say. That's not definitive, but yeah. But the problem with that, for me to tell you, I'll tell you what it was. And that's what I experienced in the neighbors. But I started in a black community. I was in South Central and I moved on to Whittier, which was a Hispanic community. And Whittier was a little bit more mixed, but predominantly Hispanic. So my interpretation of any of this is just what I experienced. I can't tell you much more. Oh, I see what you're saying. Got it. So yes, it was very prevalent in the black community at that time. They used to smoke shirms. They used to take... Yeah, that's what I would hear. I've seen it on movies and stuff. They would feature that on movies, I remember. Crazy. That shit was crazy. And that shit really

Starting point is 00:33:33 died off. It died off quick. By the time I... Were they marching or dancing? Was there any kind of like fluidity to it? Was it like capoeira kind of? Or was it like just like a maniac, like a wrestler coming into the ring? Like was there any... Fucking maniacs. Yeah, completely, totally out of control. Completely and totally... For being conscious, they were totally incoherent. There was no reasoning with them and they were extraordinarily strong. That drug would bring out extraordinary strength. Yeah. So when we pulled up and I recognized, as I saw, there obviously there was a situation where there was a threat to the public because this guy's trying to get into cars and people are still trying to pass. They're still trying to go through the intersection, even though there's this naked

Starting point is 00:34:14 dude in the middle of it. So what I end up doing is just driving around this guy in circles, clearing this section with my lights and siren on and all that noise and lights and the confusion kind of kept him in the middle. They kept him in the middle. He would walk a little bit, but I would... I kept doing these circles until more police officers got there. And the good thing about Los Angeles is that when you call for help, there's so many neighboring police agencies, sheriffs, LAPD, yada, yada, that they're there quick and a lot. And we had a lot of police officers quick. So what we end up doing is getting out of the car and kind of circling this guy. Well, now it's on because there's not a lot that we can do. And this was back in the day when we

Starting point is 00:34:54 didn't have a lot of really efficient, less than lethal stuff. Right. I mean, they used to issue SAPs, which is crazy. SAP is a little leather club. Bring it up, Zach. Let's look at it. Yeah, it's a little leather club that has sand and that sole purpose was just to beat on somebody. Wow. And the police uniforms had a little pocket at the back of the leg and you put the SAP in there. They even had SAP gloves where you put them on and had the sand thing, which looking back now, yeah, there's all kinds of different examples of the SAP. Those things hurt? Yeah. Those things are brutal and they're compact and they're very effective. If they were used in the right scenario, it totally outdated. They're totally gone now. We've found much better ways to address situations.

Starting point is 00:35:38 But back in the day, that's what they gave you. And how long was it? How long is it? Like a couple feet? About that long. Something you can carry on, yeah. But standard issue. Even then, it went to the baton, which some people still carry. But the baton's become extinct because the baton is just, the dynamic of the way it looks being used, it's just ugly. Oh, yeah. I agree. The optics of it. The optics is tough. And my friend Chad got a job after Katrina. They were hiring anybody to be security, right? Because they needed, you know, everything was unsecure and he only weighed probably 95 pounds or something. He was small. I think he was like a premature baby or something. I don't know if he was premature. He was kind of immature, but he was, I guess he was premature

Starting point is 00:36:19 or whatever. But he probably had seven months on him, you know, gestating, you know? And so when he said, when they gave him that Billy Club, it weighed him down so much. Yeah. Just because of how strong he was that after like a week, it hit like almost dislocated his hip, just walking around. So he had to quit. Yeah. But that's a tool that died really after Rodney King. They still have him. They still carry him. They still train a lot on him, but it's just bad optics. Yeah. The optics of that went down after that. Okay. So go on. So anyways, we got this guy's circle. You got the bull in the China shop, man. Yeah. Yeah. And this guy is nuts. So now the situation is, is that, you know,

Starting point is 00:36:55 again, police work a lot even back then, it's optics. Right. You know, we, everyone's watching you right now. So you not only have the dynamic of I'm dealing with a guy, and if I remember him, he was big and I'm a big guy, and I remember this guy was big. Yeah. And it was just intimidating. He's high as a kite and he's sweating and he's growling and the whole thing. So this is, this is not going to be a simple situation. Again, didn't have the tasers. We didn't have, we didn't have those things that. What about a net? Didn't have a net. Didn't have, there's a lot of less and lethal stuff that they're introducing now that we just didn't have it back then, you know? And I guess it was because

Starting point is 00:37:28 it's like anything, it's evolution. Right. You don't need it till you need it. Or you don't need it until whatever you had before is no longer socially acceptable. Rodney King pretty much killed the baton. It really did, huh? It really did. And it's not a bad thing. Yeah. You know, they found better ways. But we didn't have it back then. So now the situation was how, so we're going to have to bum rush this guy. We're all going to have to go in and get this guy. I actually had this scenario twice. Well, in police work, the newest guys get the worst assignments, you know? Unfortunately in that scenario right there, it was a lot of different agencies that everyone didn't know. So

Starting point is 00:38:01 I remember the sergeant pointing out guys that were obviously new and they essentially rushed this guy who's completely naked on a hundred plus degree day on the asphalt in the middle of an intersection in Los Angeles and it was on. Wow. Man, I mean, it was on for a while. Then once one guy got him to the ground and everyone gets in and even when you have, you can only have so many people involved just because of space factor. Yeah. I mean, and even with having five, six, seven, eight, nine guys on this guy, it took 15, 20 minutes to get him in custody, you know, to actually get his hands behind his back and get handcuffs on. Right. By the time that shit's done, you're covered in all kinds of shit. Yeah, I'm sure. You know what I mean? You've been out there.

Starting point is 00:38:47 Yeah, you're good. Yeah. And especially when you guys all go running at him, I bet it's like, it's almost like spin the bottle. Like the last thing you want to get is the guy who runs right at, you know, straight at his wiener. Exactly. To be honest. Totally. The other scenario I have in that to make it real quick, we had a guy that we got a call. Someone saw a guy looking through the window, a little girl saw a guy looking through a window. Oh man. Yeah. Keep in time. Essentially. We get to the house, we get to there, she shows us the window, we find the window below the window. They're semen. Oh. So this guy had been looking through the window at the little girl and, you know, doing his business. Yeah, masturbating. There you go.

Starting point is 00:39:24 And so we, we ended up looking for the guy, we ended up finding him in some bushes not too far away. Again, white guy, creepy, tall, totally naked. Yeah. And his testicles were the size of a softball in purple. And what we later found out is he had tied a kite string around the base of his balls. And for some reason, that did something for him. But what it did do is it made his balls really swell up. Yeah. And it was visible. So you got a guy that's completely sweaty. He's not coming out of the bushes. You see he's got big giant purple testicles that something's wrong. Again, got all the officers there, circled it. At that point, I was the youngest. This was just our police department. So they go on in there and get this guy out. So I had to spend about

Starting point is 00:40:10 five minutes wrestling a dude that's naked with big giant purple balls and a kite string around it, dripping in sweat while all my peers and friends were around me, pointing and laughing. Literally. It was crazy. It was crazy. And then at the end of it, when I booked him in, I had to cut the string off. Oh, come on. Can't put him in the jail cell with that on. Like it's a grand opening or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I actually had to cut the string off and book it in as evidence. Oh man. And did those nuts subside once you took that string off him? Ah, I don't remember. I don't remember. That was the last, that was the only visual I was trying not to deal with. You know, I remember it being very difficult to get those scissors in there.

Starting point is 00:40:50 Oh, I bet. To cut that thing off. Can't give him scissors and tell him to do it. It's a situation where you just can't do that. Booking people was tough. Yeah. I had a homeless guy that I booked and you have to do a strip search on everybody. No. Oh yeah. You can't put him in the cell. Can't put him in the cell without doing a strip search. You got to make sure they don't have anything they're going to hurt themselves or others with. So every single guy that you arrest, you essentially see the crack of their ass. Oh. You see him naked. You know, I had a homeless guy where I got naked and squat and cough and when he squat, we haven't turned the opposite way. We have him squat and we have him cough and spread their butt cheeks to make sure that they don't

Starting point is 00:41:26 have anything in their butt. Oh yeah. And he had heroin balloons all matted up in his ass hair. Or he had to obviously put them in there to hide them. Oh yeah. You know, they're little colorful balloons. That's how they would store the heroin they put inside the flated balloons. So we told them, you need to pull those out. Pull those out. And if the guy wouldn't do it, you know, fuck you, you do it. You get them out, which is a great move on his part. At that point, I was rookie. So I had the assignment of pulling, getting butt heroin balloons out of this dude's butt hair. Damn. That's that Colombian birthday party, dude. Yeah. That's crazy, man. Have you ever had to get, how much drugs can people put in

Starting point is 00:42:06 their butt? I guess that depends on who it is. We had a guy that tried to end the jail. He key stirred a racquetball, which he had slid open and put the drugs inside of it and then put it up his butt. A racquetball. What is it? A racquetball, you know, a racquetball is like this little smaller intense ball. Racquetball. You know, racquetball. Yeah, I'm thinking about it. It's just not registered. They're blue rubber. Oh yeah. You got that into his butt? Got it in his butt. Wow. Yeah. That's relatively, that's, I think that's not relatively too big. I've seen guys with Coke bottles that they put in there. A guy put a Coke bottle in his butt, but it was open. It was an open Coke bottle. But when he put in for the suction, when he tried to pull it out, he

Starting point is 00:42:49 couldn't get it out. It formed a suction issue. So we had to transport this guy to the hospital to have it in an emergency room surgically removed. Oh man, that'll make you switch to Pepsi, huh? But also that's like that sir gala hat or something. What's the one where they try to pull the thing out of that? Yeah, sword in the stone. Yeah, it's like sword in the stone. Pretty humiliating situation. Tough ride to the hospital. I fell for the guy, you know. And you can't sit down. That's got to be the worst thing. He's on his hands and knees. If you keep thinking you can sit down, then every time you go to sit down, you're gonna lose. Humiliating. Imagine you're having to walk into an emergency room, you know, to get a Coke bottle removed from your...

Starting point is 00:43:25 Yeah. And you have to kind of walk in like kind of, yeah, I would probably, yeah. And it's glass, huh? It's glass. Oh, that's so risky. Yeah. God, it's almost like that. It's like, don't wake the baby or one of those games. I feel like it has like a real game show element. Yeah. That is the most Japanese game show element to what I've ever heard, you know. I feel like. It's the thing about police work that people don't realize is that you're... This is the craziest shit, you know. It's used to deal with the crazy shit. People don't realize that. People don't realize that. They don't even think about it. They watch the movies. There's an infatuation with police work. You watch all these movies that you see. None of them. None of them. Really. There's a few. There's a show

Starting point is 00:44:05 called The Southland, which actually one of our officer's wife was in the business and she was somehow involved. And you could tell that someone knew about police work was involved. But when you watch like Training Day and, you know, all the other stuff, they're great entertainment, but people think that's real. Yeah. They don't know what it's really like, you know. That's why these opportunities for someone like me to come. And I have no ties. I'm retired. I don't even... I want to do guys right that are in the job. This gives me an opportunity to explain, you know. Yeah. This is what's really like. So there's an out... I mean, you just don't... Any day, it could be absolutely anything. Like, it's like the levels of things... It almost feels too vast.

Starting point is 00:44:49 It is. It is. It's every... It was... I loved the job. By the time I got out, I had to get out because it just... It where... Your life changes. I start... I had a child and, you know, seeing dead children. Just all the different things that you experience as life goes on. It starts to wear you. It starts to beat you down. That's why cops retire at 50. You got to get out. Mentally, you got to get out. It's just too much. It's too much. The physical aspect is not that big of a deal. But the mental is, you see everything. I mean, I can tell you, gosh, I can tell you... What about a jumper? You get a jumper? No. There was nowhere where I was... In Whittier, there was nothing that high. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Whittier's pretty flat. I had... I had... Here's a

Starting point is 00:45:35 crazy scenario that we dealt with. We had a call middle of the night of a female bleeding profusely. Mm-hmm. We got to the house and this dude answered the door and he is a tweaker. I mean, this guy is high as a kite. Stereotypical. Oh, yeah. Radio shack manager. Totally. Shirt off, tripping out. Just came back, probably collecting copper on his bike. And how do they answer the door? Is it always like, is there one common way that tweakers answered the door? Like, what's... No, not really. They don't answer the door. Usually, they just see the blinds open a little bit, bam, you know, and you can see, okay, they're inside. But this guy answered the door because he needed us. Okay. The situation was, is that he was with

Starting point is 00:46:19 his girlfriend and they were both high as a kite. It's like four in the morning. And when we walked in, she's laying on the floor in the living room and there's blood everywhere. There's blood all over her legs and she's holding an old, nasty t-shirt on her crotch. And this t-shirt is pretty saturated. So when we start talking to this guy in his, you know, in his tweaker way, he starts to explain to us that they were being an intimate and during that, they had gotten a dildo, a really large purple dildo. And he had taken a coat hanger, those old school metals coat hangers, and he had unwound it. And you know how when you're like, if you're doing... Oh, cooking marshmallows? Cooking marshmallows. How you do that? Well, he essentially made like

Starting point is 00:47:04 that, but he took the end of that, the pokey end and he stuck it into the ends of the dildo. And then he bent that coat hanger so it was a handle. So he was using that on his girlfriend. Right. So he was really... He was going... Yeah. He was getting in there and doing what he could. Yeah. He was making it happen. He was trying to jumpstart that cooch. Yeah. So what ended up happening was is those pokey ends ended up coming through the side of the dildo. So when he was doing it, he was essentially cheese grating her insides. Bro, I feel like right now my pussy hurts me. Hell yeah, it does. To this day, it bothers me. I don't even have a pussy. Right? To this day, it hurts me, you know? So when he described and when he held that,

Starting point is 00:47:50 we said, where is it? Where's the item? And when he went and got it and held it up, there was literally tissue. There was tissue that was on the thing. So this was bad. This is a situation that was bad, but... Yeah. Yeah. That's bad as a gift. Right? Yeah. Do you press? Is it like a button? Do you press when it gets too bad? No. Who do you call when it gets too bad? You know what you end up doing when it gets too bad or cops end up doing? They end up fucking joking about it. Wow. They end up... It's a coping mechanism, man. And it just happens. And I can remember in that scenario, the hardest part in that scenario... I had been on for quite a while and the guy I was with had been on for quite a while as well. In that specific scenario,

Starting point is 00:48:31 the hardest part for us was not to start laughing. Wow. Because it was just so fucking crazy. It was just so crazy standing in the living room with two tweakers. One's bleeding profusely. He's holding up. It's got tissue. The other problem was is that we have a responsibility to render aid. Yeah. Civil liability is a big deal. When you're a cop, at any given time, you can lose everything because you fail to follow one part of your job description. Rendering aid is one of them. So I remember looking at the guy who had less time on me beside going, you know what the fuck you got to do, right? You got to apply pressure, man. And he's got to do it because he's younger. He's younger. Yeah. Well, he's less time on.

Starting point is 00:49:14 Yeah, less time on. So I was... In that conversation, looking at your buddy and saying, look at you, you got to do this, man. The difficulty in not laughing in that situation, the both of you like you're facing and him looking me and going, there's no fucking way. There's just no fucking way I'm going to do this, dude. And you're going, no, you have to do this. Wow. Luckily, we were able to... We were having such a hard time dealing with not laughing that it went on just long enough that we heard sirens and it was a fire department. And at that point, I was like, yeah, this is all you guys, man. Dang. This is all you guys. Dude, that's so interesting. So there must be such bonds kind of that are formed out there between cops, Arthur?

Starting point is 00:49:56 Yeah. Because I would just feel you're going through such insane situations, you know. And it's so interesting that you guys use humor to cope because it's the same thing. It's the same thing why a lot of comedians get into things, you know, things were traumatic or some type of way. And so they use humor to survive. You know, I think it's amazing that Mother Nature uses that as like a governor on us, you know, where it's like if you get so far, you just laugh. I think it's why the Joker laughs in the Joker movies. Because at a certain point, he's just so mad that there's nothing left to do but laugh at it, you know. Pretty much. The situations are so outrageous. And like you said, as far as the bonds,

Starting point is 00:50:36 please, please, there is strong bonds. And I'm married, love my wife, been together for 20 years. We talk about everything, my best friend. My entire career, I never went home and I never discussed anything with her. Literally never discussed anything with her. There was never a good time to come home and say, Hey, you know, I saw a fucking kid die today. You know, all the things that went on during the day, unless it was like really light and really fine, I never told her anything traumatic. Wow. Because it's just never a good time. You know, why would I want her to experience these, these, especially as time goes on, these horrific things. So the only people you do talk about that with are these guys that you're doing it with.

Starting point is 00:51:13 And nine times out of 10, when you do talk about it later, it's just, it feels so inappropriate because you're, it becomes a joke. Right. The most horrific situations, they become funny, you know, and it, and anyone else that hears that, it's, it is a hard pill to swallow, you know, it's a hard for the general public to go, Why the fuck are they laughing? Right. You know, what's so funny? You'll see sometimes on TV, I'll see like homicide scenes on TV. And I'll, I'll, I'll look at, because I'm conscious, I'm aware of this. I'll look at the officers around and you do it for now on, you'll see every once in a while, you'll see two guys and they'll be horrific murder scene, shootings, whatever. And there's be two fucking cops right there and

Starting point is 00:51:52 they'll be laughing. Wow. You know, they'll be communicating and they'll be laughing and you go like, Oh dude, that's such bad optics. That's such, but you totally understand it. Right. You know, the rest of the world doesn't. Wow. Yeah. Another night of epic fights is here. It's time to fist up. It's time to stay fisting, baby. I'm talking about UFC 282. It's an action packed fight card. My boy, Bryce Mitchell is going to be on there. He's been a two time guest here on the pod. I'll be throwing down on this one with Draft King Sportsbook, the official sports betting partner of UFC. So check this out right now. If you like to gamble and you can do it safely, that everyone can earn up to a 50% boost when you place a same game parlay on UFC 282.

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Starting point is 00:54:28 here's a young man who didn't grow up with any amazing or special skills. And now they're in charge of kind of being a jury at certain times being like immediate aid going into something they don't really know what's going on half the time that person is required or expected to have all these answers. And they have these tools on their belt that some of them are lethal that they're supposed to use. Jesus, man. There's a tremendous amount of training that cops get as far as all the stuff that you have and how to use it. As far as the pressure, like I told you earlier, number one killer of cops is suicide. People have always wanted, people want to go to bed at night and close their eyes and feel they're safe. That's only

Starting point is 00:55:21 the reason we all sleep at night because we think there's people out there that are keeping us safe. That's a really good point, isn't it? The second that the police are gone, somebody in your house is going to be have to be at your window. Which is the craziest part of what's going on lately. It's hard to watch. I've escaped it. Even after Rodney King, there was a push and I'm down for the push. I'm down for everything always getting better. In any facet, we can get better. We can do this better. But this is a very complex job. You can't identify everything you're going to come in contact with. There's no way to be ready for everything that happens. There's just no possible way in this job. A large portion of

Starting point is 00:56:02 these things that you're coming in contact with are life and death. They're brutal. A mom walking with her child and saw a car coming. It was going to run the red light. She jumped back in the thing and lost her grip on him. Well, lost her grip on him. He got hit and sucked up into the wheel well. You get there and there is no way to properly handle that situation. There is nothing that can be done. People don't understand that aspect of police work. They ask a lot of police. When I watch what was happening, when I watch those videos of what was going on and you see it, you saw it spray painted all over the ACAB. All cops are bad. Are you talking about during BLM? Yes. All cops are bad. It was everywhere. There was just this concerted push of demonizing a

Starting point is 00:56:59 million people. We have done that, but we don't really do that to any other profession like we do cops. There's a ton of bad doctors. Oh, horrible. Ton of bad doctors just writing prescriptions. I used to catch them all the time, man. Fishers, they would just, what do you want? 150 oxy. Here you go. Bam, bam, just killing people left and right. Moralists, all for money. We've never had a concerted effort of demonizing doctors because the world feels like we need doctors, but they don't feel that way about police. How they were saying, get rid of the cops. Yeah, that was insane. It's one of the reasons why I moved over to, I bought a house in Nashville about a year and a half ago just because I was pretty sure it was a place where people could

Starting point is 00:57:45 carry weapons on their own. So I just wanted there to be, I don't know, I know that there's people that like to hunt and I would rather have some of them be around in case things get, or at least somebody rolls into a diner with a weapon. There's going to be seven other guys in there. Absolutely. We're going to find a way to finish their fucking eggs that morning. Which is what we were talking about earlier. I believe that we need more, it's the only solution. We need more guns and more good people's hands at all times, more CCWs. I really, truly believe that's- What is CCW? Carried a concealed weapons license or a concealed weapon. That's the thing. Well, it's funny because it's not even, I never even consciously made

Starting point is 00:58:29 that choice really. I just said, okay, I need to be in a place where I know that that someone around me can have a weapon and I can if I need to. It was almost like a subconscious choice really. Which is the issue with the way the community, the way they've this concerted effort, and there's all kinds of reasons why it occurred, which none of us want to get in, but this effort to demonize these good people, I'll be honest, man. I did police work for 20 years. It doesn't occupy me. I don't carry, I don't have a gun on me right now. I don't carry a gun because I feel like I don't need to. Police work does not define me, but some of the best people I've ever met were cops. Yeah. Just really saw, and we came from all different places.

Starting point is 00:59:18 How I got there was much different than the way most got. We were totally opposite. Yeah, there is a lot of guys that you see. They probably got their ass kicked through high school and became cops, but I found the majority of those guys, they were good dudes. There was guys that weren't, but within police departments, especially now, they really police themselves and contain or get rid of those people. They don't want that either. Right. And a lot of cops are just really solid, solid human beings. And the world just recently, they tried to turn on them in their entirety. They did exactly what they said that is happening to other people. They completely stereotyped a million people. Yeah, it's crazy. Right. It's like people saying, don't stereotype,

Starting point is 01:00:02 but then we're going to stereotype this huge group of people that are keeping us safe. And now we're less safe than we've ever been. Are we really? I was going to ask you that. Are we less safe than we've ever been? Absolutely. The whole idea of police work when I started, the whole idea of police work in its entirety was proactive policing, man. Get out there and find crime before it occurs. I want you to shake cars. I want you to, shake cars means pull them over. Find out what's going on. Find out what they got stuff there. I want you to frisk, tickle. Yes. And there's a whole dynamic to that that's always in debate of like, oh, he stopped me because of this or he stopped me because of that, which is it's really not true, but it's too long

Starting point is 01:00:40 of an explanation for that. But the whole idea of police work was is to find the crimes before they occurred. And now what has happened with what the demonizing of police and the way that they have unfairly attacked them? Like I said, the expectation is, oh, man, he only had a baseball bat and you shot him. Right. You know, it's like, what are you talking about? Like this wasn't even a conversation that was stomped down. Back in the day, that wasn't allowed to go very far because that's ridiculous. Right. But now guys are losing their jobs. They're not just losing their jobs. They're going to jail. So now literally, I still have my a good friend of mine is the chief of the police department that I work at now. And they're literally telling police officers in

Starting point is 01:01:19 essentially, I only want you to deal with what we have to deal with. So cops aren't out there doing proactive policing anymore. They're not out there actively looking for stuff because they're literally scared that no matter what they do, the world's going to turn on them based on a video clip. Yeah. You know, or a concerted effort once that video clip is seen of all these people in high power positions to have the venue to disseminate all this information, to turn on them and say, this guy did this. I can give you so many examples, which I'm not, but of cops being unjustifiably tried and convicted. Really? On television. On television. Wow. You know, where they've said, this guy is a bad person and look at what he did.

Starting point is 01:02:03 Yeah. Take me through one. That's interesting because I agree with you. I agree. It's impossible. How do you get all of the, how do you say all of these people? And I wasn't one of the people who jump on that, you know, I'm one of the ilk that it's like, yeah, maybe there's some bad guys here. Maybe there's some people that are untrained or not trained well, but I'm not, I have always felt like I've had a decent relationship with police unless I was doing something wrong. And in that time, I didn't have the best time with them, you know, and nobody wants to be held accountable, even a housewife that gets pulled over for speeding. I mean, I've had, I've had women in that look like mothers completely lose their shit on me. Wow. Just over a ticket,

Starting point is 01:02:41 just completely unreasonable, screaming, yelling, cussing, don't you got anything fucking better to do? You know, there's crimes going on. Yeah. And that's just such an ignorant statement to, you know, we have to enforce all laws, you know, there's reasons all laws are in place. But yeah, the, I'm trying to think of one recently. I don't know if you remember this. There was a, there was a scenario right after the big incident that occurred where I think it was like in a land or something. It was two cops and they were trying to take this guy into custody and it was a drag out fight. It was, they had the whole clip. I mean, they were fighting and the guy ended up, the suspect ended up taking the guy's taser. Remember when he ran and he turned back

Starting point is 01:03:19 and he shot the taser towards the cops. Okay. That guy's done. There's just, that's, that guy is unequivocally the justification for a police officer to eliminate that threat is a hundred percent, hundred percent unequivocal. Because if you are a person, take, if you are a person, a cop's job is to identify a crime, to take that person into custody and to take them to before a judge and to have them processed for the crime. They're not there to administer punishment. I think that's where the problem was some cops get, some cops get so, some guy spits on your face. It's hard not to react. Yeah. I've had that. My name is Brad White. My name tag said be white. When I worked in South Central, I had a guy actually come up to me and we were involved in

Starting point is 01:04:07 a scenario where I was investigating a crime and he noticed my name tag and he decided to go on a tangent about it. I see how it fucking is officer be white. You know, and didn't even register with me. But I'm all, oh, shit. No, my name is Brad, man. You know, my name is Brad. You're missing the rad part. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, I actually got my name tag changed because of it. I just didn't want to deal with that. Yeah. I just didn't want to deal with that. But in the scenario that you saw with those, those two Atlanta cops, I mean, there is just those guys, that guy decided that he was not going to jail. Right. And he was going to do anything he needed not to go to jail. And that cop's job is he can't just go, okay, fuck it.

Starting point is 01:04:49 You know, you don't want to go. I'll see you later. Cause now that guy loses his job. He has to take this individual in custody. There is no, there is no not doing. Right. Cause now if that guy goes and does something immediately down the street, done, civil liability, civil liability in the cops are sued. Cops are sued. People lose trust in the police department. It's just, it's a, it's a very difficult dynamic. So those guys had no choice at that point, but they take this guy into custody. And, and when you're in a fight like that, when you're in a fight where someone's fighting a cop, I remember when I was a little kid, man, I knew if I run from the cops, I'm getting my ass beat. Yeah. That's just how it used to be.

Starting point is 01:05:25 You know what I mean? That's how it was. That's my understanding of what it was. But if this guy is doing all of this to get away, he is capable of anything. When you're in a fight like that as a cop, your thought process is if this guy overwhelms me, he's going to get my gun and I'm done. Yeah. It's over. So immediately when someone starts really, truly resisting you physically, a cop's in a fight for his life. And the public doesn't understand that. But if you're fighting a cop, you're going to do whatever it's necessary. You've already just, you've already demonstrated that. Already crossed that line. Already crossed that line. I'm going to do whatever it needs to get away. So at that point, you're in a fight for your life. So those cops were so

Starting point is 01:06:02 justified. Even though that guy was running away, they started to chase him. When that guy turned and shot that Taser at them, there's no, the probability of them knowing that that was a Taser is minimal. Yeah. Absolutely minimal. And they put that on TV and they demonized those two guys without any kind of a hearing or any true information whatsoever. And it was criminal. It was criminal, but that goes on a lot. And if you notice, you never heard about that again. Because they put that to rest because that was totally justified. And all the powers that be that wanted to use that for their agenda, they even left it alone because it became pretty evident really quick. Once people started looking at it going, like, what are they supposed to do?

Starting point is 01:06:42 You know, what is the scenario that's supposed to happen there? Well, and so how bad is the media in all of this? How bad, how much have they become? Because, you know, it's funny, like, it doesn't even seem sometimes like the government is the government anymore. It seems like like the government is this LLC kind of of or America is like this LLC of just like corporations and capital interests. And that media kind of controls a lot of stuff. I mean, how scary is it to you guys? Because the media somebody puts out a clip, some some group uses it to kind of push their narrative or something like that. And then you got and then police are like, what are we supposed to do? You know, it almost doesn't leave you a place to do anything. You know,

Starting point is 01:07:32 is the media like does it sometimes feel like the media is not on your side? Yeah, man, you're going into a whole thing recently that seems like it's to be such a drawn out topic. But yeah, what's going on now? I never really dealt with again, I never had a scenario where it was so high profile that I was dealing with the media on a personal level and have all the knowledge of exactly what happened. But it does. It definitely appears like the media right now is using a million people. There's about a million cops, I think, in in America as a tool as a tool, you know, they're definitely using it and and people don't ever stop and think that's just a dude that needed a job that got into this career that's making a living that

Starting point is 01:08:18 goes home and has a family is just trying to get back alive and is dealing with crazy shit all fucking day. He's been create dealing with crazy shit for like 15 years. Why are we allowing this? Why are we allowing this to happen? You know, but nobody wants to be the person that stands and raises their hand because that's that's the next guy. So yeah, I'm not a media fan. I imagine most of America is not a media fan at this point. Yeah, I think so too. Look, it's one of the reasons why we've been able to start like tertiary media things like this, you know, because mainstream it was just too too biased. It's so it's bad. It's if they give to the news got away from telling you what happened and now they give you their opinion on what happened and it's based

Starting point is 01:09:01 on who that guy is and who's paying that guy or whatever. And it's based a lot of times by people that have grown up in a hypothetical comfortable type of environment where they've never really need, you know, like they've never needed a cop really, they've never, you know, except to maybe serve like a divorce paper. They've never need like they've never really been in an environment where it's like, okay, this is what life is kind of really like for other people, you know. People got no idea what's going on. People have no idea what's what's going on in the world. Again, most cops are cynical and callous. And there's a fucking reason for it, man, because you spend 20, 30 years of going and dealing with the world shit every single day.

Starting point is 01:09:44 You really start getting convinced. World's fucked up, man. This is a bad place. You know, I had a young, through my process, I had a baby and I still to this day go, how could, how could I, how selfish was it for me to have a kid? How selfish is that? I know what a shit world this is. I know what he's going to face. I know what could possibly happen. I know what walks the earth. It was so selfish. I wanted a kid so bad. I did it for me. And I never even and I never even took into consideration when I've done, I, he's going to have to, who knows what's going to happen to him. Well, I'll tell you one thing that could happen to him. If you're a good dad, he's going to look up one day at his dad and he's going to love his dad so

Starting point is 01:10:25 much. And he doesn't get to do that if you don't have him. So that's pretty cool. Yes. Yes. And it will be for him. I'm just going to be one of that. I know you're saying to, yeah, not to you though. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not judging what you're saying. I'm just kind of sharing another, I'm trying to share something that makes you think positively about it too. I'm sure it's amazing being a dad. But yeah, I could imagine that. You're like, what am I bringing somebody really into? Because this world to me is tough. This world is ugly. This world, you don't, like I said, you don't know what's behind those doors. Cops every day get invited into people's homes uninvited. Yeah. You have never been in a home besides a party where people didn't want you there.

Starting point is 01:11:02 We would go every day into people's home that didn't want us there and they had no choice. So every day we're walking into environments that normal people don't go into. And is it weird right when you walk in like where do you stand in the room? That's what I always feel like. Sometimes I'm looking at cops. I'm like, it always seemed like, I don't know where, like what I stand here, what I stand here. It's, it's, there's so much training even at that aspect as far as tactical advantage and how you stand, gun leg back, you know, always being, they teach you to watch. I went to so many behavior analysis classes where they would teach you based on the way people sit during interviews. If they're telling the truth or the way someone's acting when

Starting point is 01:11:39 they're sitting of what could possibly occur next and everything's tactical. Cops do everything for a reason. Like they 90% of the time they'll want to bring people out of their home because that's their environment. We don't know what's in that environment. We don't know what's behind that door. We don't know what's under that couch cushion. So they try to bring them into the most safe environment that they possibly can, which is usually to bring them out of the house. Everything a cop does on a call is all planned. It's, it's all from training and there's all a process to it. Wow. Yeah. There's a lot, there's, there's a lot that people don't even, you know, there's a lot to it. Man, it's really giving me, it just gives me a little bit more of an

Starting point is 01:12:22 understanding kind of a, this should almost be a class I feel like in school when kids are growing up, you know, to have like a real, like, I don't give a fuck if I could spell, but if I have an understanding of what the people enforcing my community, what their lives are like, and what my responsibility then as a member of the community could be, that would be really, really valuable, I feel like. Absolutely. I mean, even cops still need it. I, before COVID, after I retired, I went in my, one of my close friends in the police department, I became a patrol sergeant and it was a female, most squared away, female cop you've ever seen, just looked at her and she screamed cop, great cop, good person, totally solid. As time went on,

Starting point is 01:13:08 she started to deteriorate mentally. And because my generation had never been taught about it, we would, you know, you just need to sack, sack the fuck up, you know. Tuffing up Thompson. That's it. You need a cup of sack the fuck up and let's get back to business. Yeah. So we fucking hardened that vulva, buddy. That's it. You know, and we would not, we just didn't know what it was. Well, long story short, she ended up not showing up for work and she ended up killing herself. She ended up hanging herself and I actually went to the house and found her. And with hindsight, looking back at it, there was so many warning signs. There were so many things that she did when she was begging for help. She actually came into the police department at

Starting point is 01:13:48 one point and was hysterical and acting crazy. And I had a pretty good relationship with her. So I told my lieutenant, I'll go out and talk to her and I went and talked to her. And I remember walking in and going, holy shit, she's going to kill herself. She's so bad. We're like even thinking that, but it's almost like this passive weird thing that we just think. I said it. I said it out loud. She's going to kill herself. She's that crazy. Things are that bad right now is what I was thinking and doing what cops do. We made a fucking joke at her. I remember laughing. I remember laughing and a week later, she was dead, you know. And so even with cops, they have, they have to learn about themselves. I was going

Starting point is 01:14:18 and doing speaking based on my experience from that and some other things where I was going all over the United States and doing speaking engagements where I was teaching cops just about mental, mental health, man, you know, knowing what can happen and how it happens and how, how you're not going to be aware that it's happening. And these are the warning signs. And don't fuck around because you're going to wake up one day. People don't think it'll, it'll be them. And it is. Oh, yeah. And it's fast. Sometimes it is. Well, I think we could be at this part in society too and in timeline of society where the receptacles we've been using to, um, to, to corral and to, um, take care of like the drains,

Starting point is 01:15:08 like the, the sieves, the things that are, that are the things that were that are the people that are taking care of us, like mental health professionals, cops, it could be, we're at this kind of tipping point as a society where it's like we've almost, we've overburdened them, you know, and, uh, you know, I don't know that, but you start to wonder like, at what point are we just not able to be the ones to like kind of damn or help alleviate whatever, all this kind of whatever trauma or whatever it is, this continuing pieces of pain that are alive in, in the universe. Does that make any sense to you? Yeah. It's kind of ethereal kind of. I think, I don't know what ethereal means, but I understand what you're trying to say.

Starting point is 01:16:02 What are you trying to say? I, they got to do a better, we got to do better. So what can we do then? What can we do for cops? What are, what are we doing? So you said that it, it's important. It is important, but I mean, we're so, we're so far down the ladder as far as like that question of what can we do for cops? The first thing, just, just to get on the ladder, I would say be fair, man, be fair, you know, think about it. It's a million, I'm estimating that, but I think there's like a million cops in America. There's a million people. What we're talking about. Let's, let's say a thousand of them are bad people, a thousand of them. Is it our duty?

Starting point is 01:16:37 Is it our job as police officers or would to, to identify those people and get rid of them? Absolutely. And I got, I'm not here. I'm not advocating for police. I have no, there's no reason for me to. Right. I'm being honest with you. I'm not trying to say, oh, cops are this and that, but you need to be fair. You need to be fair with cops, you know, a thousand or bad. Don't go into it with the thought process that you have. Don't participate in what you're seeing. You see people saying, you know, fuck the police or all cops are bad or defund the cop, you know, find a way to assist in, in that process of going, no, you know, that's not right. These are, we need to identify

Starting point is 01:17:23 individuals and we need to have, and people, the argument they'll have is go, well, we can't have, we can't have one bad cop. You know what I mean? There's too much power. You know, we can't have one bad cop. I agree, but it's also fucking impossible. It's also fucking impossible. Yeah. It's totally unrealistic and especially a pressure to put on these people that already have so much pressure on them. Yes. And it's not really probably going to change anything. It's just a bunch of battle cry bullshit that doesn't really, in the end, is it really changing anything? You know, it's making us less safe. That's a good point. It's making us less safe. So we do have that, dude. I real, I'm telling you, man, we're less safe. We are. We are less safe. It feels

Starting point is 01:17:59 less safe out there. Yeah, we're less safe. Yes, we are, especially here in LA, we are, we are much less safe because we have a double whammy out here. We got, now they're, now it's shifting into where they're getting district attorneys that are, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're eliminating crime. We're basically saying that there is, there, right, there's no crime. There's no crime. Like a crime isn't a real thing. We're not going to press charges for it. Yeah. Like back, back when I was a cop, like if you went into a CVS and your shop lifted, we would go through a process of, of identifying, did you go in there with the intent to steal, which is an easy process to do. Where's your wallet? I don't have a wallet. Where's your form of payment? I don't have any

Starting point is 01:18:38 form of payment. I have nothing on me. Well, why did you go into CVS? Well, it's obviously I went into CVS, you went in there to steal. Yeah. So now it's not just a petty theft. Now it's a burglary because you went in there with the intent to steal, which makes it a different crime. Yeah. You know, so it's a process of identifying people doing wrong things and, and trying to get it to stop. I wasn't a perfect kid. I got arrested when I was a kid. I got arrested several times when I was a kid. You know, I fortunately, I came in contact with police officers that, that were, that from what I remember, we're just solid human beings. And I had a demeanor because of the way I was raised, where I was very respectful, even though I was wrong. So I had a really good interaction,

Starting point is 01:19:21 even though I was being held accountable. I went to juvenile hall, man. Damn. You know, I wasn't really doing anything. I wasn't doing, I wasn't stealing or I was, my parents were really strict. I took their car. First time I ever got arrested, I took my parents car, you know, 15 years old. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to go see my girlfriend. I came home, went to bed, and the next morning I woke up, cops woke me up. My dad called the cops, had me arrested, you know, because his, his thought process was, is now, now we're getting into shit where I'm going to start holding you accountable. And I used to look at it and go, like, Oh, dad, you're such a dick. How could you do that to me? But I look back at it now and go, thank God, because I went through enough stuff where one day

Starting point is 01:19:59 I went, that's it. I don't want to live like this. Matter of fact, I want to do the opposite. And all my shit was misdemeanors. And I was able to get rid of it and go through the process of becoming a cop. But it, it made a big difference for me. When you say like, how do we get rid of that one bad cop? They made a big difference for me where I was legally able to not make mention of the things that occurred to me as a juvenile, because I got it expunged, my record. And it's clearly stated that you do not have to make that available. Okay. Okay. They do a whole background. They talk to people and the people that were in my life at that time, thankfully, didn't make mention of it either. So it was alleviate. So I was able to become a police officer. And it served me well,

Starting point is 01:20:41 man, because I knew what it was like to be locked up an eight by 10 room for 23 hours. Right. Yeah. It's some semblance of it. It's a big deal to take away someone's freedom. It's monstrous. It's crippling. You know, I was 16 years old and I did six months in juvenile hall for taking my parents' car. That was back in the day. You know, you can, you can kill somebody and you might not get six months. Yeah. You know, but my parents said we want the maximum, yada, yada. But when I got out and I became a police officer eventually, I kept that matter of fact, shit, someone's gonna probably watch this podcast and my buddies are going to be like, dude, I never knew that about you. But it's just not something that I brought up because

Starting point is 01:21:18 it made me feel feel less, lesser than the guys I was working with. They had this, this lifestyle that they deserve to be there. And I really didn't deserve to be there. I just got lucky, but it served me really, really well. I really had an appreciation of that process and what it does to a person coming in contact with a cop, being arrested, getting put inside of a jail cell, being there for 23 hours, you know, at a time. I was a kid from Orange County. I got put into a jail cell the first day with this kid. It was an Asian kid. I don't know. Oh yeah, I've seen him. Yeah. It was an Asian kid that was in there and we started talking about what'd you do. And I said, I took my parents' car and this guy went on the story was he was like a watching

Starting point is 01:22:00 gang member and they were on the run and they were in a hotel and they had a revolver and they had played Russian roulette with it with a thing and some dude ended up blowing his head off and they were scared because the gun was stolen and they put them in a carpet and they cut the carpet, they rolled them up in the carpet and took them into San Bernardino mountains and lit them on fire. Got away with it for like six months. But I shit my pants, man. You know, I mean, when that guy told me that I was like, Holy shit, dude, I was scared to death. Yeah, fuck, I'm never working in flooring. I know that. But dang, no, that's crazy. If you're in a cell with that dude, suddenly you're like, damn weird. As a kid. Yeah, especially if you're

Starting point is 01:22:35 like, this isn't the avenue I want to be going. If this is even the intersection I'm starting to meet up with the world at, I want to do a U-turn. You were talking about local crime and stuff like that or this type of break-ins and fever and robbery. We had this thing that just happened yesterday at the Apple store. Did you see this thing? No. And these are these smash and grab things that happen all the time? Yes. Yeah, this is somewhere here in California, I think near Tahoe, but at an Apple store. And it seems to be, and for some reason, this seems to be like, I don't know if this is like a black, it's like a black culture thing. It seems to be a lot of times this is kind of black eyes. I know it's a generalization. I'm okay to make that. And I don't

Starting point is 01:23:12 mean that in a rate like black people. I'm just saying, I don't know if this is a, like train robbing is probably like a white crime. Like different people have sometimes different crimes in their cultures. I don't know if this, there's no way to police this, is there? What do you do here? You hear the people in here like, are we supposed to do something? What do we do? Well, I do think we have gotten to a point in the world where we are eventually going to have to have someone with a gun everywhere. I mean, I'm talking security of some type. If you go to, if like you're talking about like these, these, these shootings that they have at schools, we could, we could almost alleviate that tomorrow. We could almost take care of that situation

Starting point is 01:23:54 tomorrow. And if you go to Israel and you try to walk onto a elementary school, there are two highly trained, highly armed military type personnel, usually more than that, that are guarding that school. Wow. That you can't, you can't even take pictures. They won't even let you take pictures. That would completely alleviate the situation that we have. If we put, I know they got like school resource officers, but it's one cop and it's big schools. Yeah. And that's just somebody fucking with a damn whistle. I'm talking about somebody there who's trained. Yeah. And a couple, highly trained, very visible. If, if, if there was a guy right there with, with a gun, you know, that was in that store. But for some reason society is still reluctant

Starting point is 01:24:35 to go that direction. I understand it. Guns are scary. I understand that aspect of it. But I really feel like it's our only solution. You know, we could alleviate that situation. How do we stop that from going on? The only really way to do that is to hold, that's not the first time those kids committed a crime. No. Nobody walks into an Apple store, starts ripping fucking phones off the thing with, with a packed store. Those kids have committed a lot of crimes. And I guarantee you, those kids have been arrested, at least some of them. Yeah. And the problem is the accountability is so low. Like my example, you know, I had the ultimate accountability. There's no difference between me and those guys. I'm not, you know. Right. You're

Starting point is 01:25:14 both humans. We're both humans. You know what I mean? And I was just held accountable, you know, and it changed the way I think. I didn't want that lifestyle. We're not doing that anymore. And people are seeing this on TV and they're seeing that they're getting away with it. And, and it's influencing other people to be like, what the fuck, you know? Why don't we go do it? I want a fucking iPhone, 14, shit. You know, 40 iPhones in a computer. And they don't have that guidance at home, maybe they don't have that, that, that, you know, those parents that are willing to take the steps to change the behavior. Do you, so who would have to hire the,

Starting point is 01:25:47 the security in that position? Would that be Apple would need to? Or would the, does it become a governmental issue? Because it's almost becoming more like we've ostracized our police departments publicly so much that security seems like it's going to become a lot more of a privatized type of thing. Do you? It's going to have to, you know, they can't really, I mean, they do, they have mall cops at their actual real police officers at malls in some cities. They have cops that are high schools. They, they do what they can, but, you know, it would require a lot more funding, which I don't quite understand why there isn't more funding, but they would have to be private. It's not like Apple can't afford to have some armed guards at

Starting point is 01:26:26 every one of their stores, you know, and police would totally be behind it as long as there was proper training and communication. And we're going to have to go that route. It's eventually going to have to go that route. There's just no other solution. Yeah. I agree with you. We had this. What about these? They had an, a thing I was looking at. Zach, if you can find this, it was about, they were going to do robots. Um, this was in San Francisco, robot dog. Yeah. Yeah. San Francisco will allow police to deploy robots that kill. Yeah. So basically they're going to, this is, this just came out and a lot of people were talking about it, but the important distinction is that they're not arming them with guns.

Starting point is 01:27:02 They're arming them with explosives and they claim that it would only be used in the most extreme situations. Um, so they won't be armed with guns. It would be explosives. Yeah, I don't, I mean, San Francisco police department in itself is one that I, what you're seeing right there, take it with a great assault. I'm sure it's completely irrelevant. I was exactly what's going on. I mean, you can see the title San Francisco allow police to deploy robots that will kill. That's a pretty absurd statement for what's probably really going on here. Right. Um, and the Associated Press put this out there. This is crazy that they would also do this again. They're pretty, they're about the most middle of the road. I felt like AP, but I mean,

Starting point is 01:27:40 you're right though. San Francisco PD in itself, my knowledge of it, um, is, is it's much like their community. You know, it's very, it's a very, um, hopeful, hopeful group. Yeah. A very hopeful group. You know, I mean, they're okay with a lot of stuff. They're, they're really okay with the idea. There's, there's so many things that they do. Let's, let's give, make really readily available needles for heroin addicts, you know, which I understand the argument. Safe shooting or whatever. Yeah. I understand the argument of it, but there's just not a lot of thought process. Well, they wanted to give swords to homeless people. I remember a couple of years ago, there was a thing about giving homeless people swords so they could help defend themselves. And I'm like,

Starting point is 01:28:22 what the fuck are we doing, dude? Homeless. I mean, there's another great example, man, the homeless situation. We have fucked ourselves on that. We have totally fucked ourselves. When I first started in police work, there really is no available answer for homelessness because it's a mix of people. It's people that want to be there. It's people that are drug addicts. It's people that are mentally, mentally incapable, you know? We used to have the process where we would be able to, someone go, I got a homeless guy. He's taking a shit in front of my house, you know? We'd be able to go there, take that person and alleviate the problem for the person that's calling us. We would take them somewhere else. Let me take you to this park. Let me take

Starting point is 01:29:01 you where, where can I take you? Is there anybody I can take you? Take you to, let me take you 7-11. I'll get you some water. I'll buy you a little something to eat, you know? And then you can go on your way. And they go, okay, I'll do that. Early on in my career, and I forget the agency, but a cop kind of did that where he took a homeless person away from a situation where someone was calling, drove him to the edge of the city and said, walk that way. So the idea was, you're not my city's problem. Okay. And somehow some attorney got a hold of that information and decided that he was going to take this to court because that cop took someone that had not committed a crime and against his will transported him from one location to another,

Starting point is 01:29:43 which is the definition of kidnapping. So they ended up going after this cop for kidnapping. So then what ends up happening by case law is it changes the process the way all police departments handle homeless people. You know, there's no more doing that. So basically, they even made it worse. Then they start saying, oh, you took that guy to jail and you left his cart full of shit here, which is full of. Yeah, memorabilia, things from growing up, trophies from when he was in T-ball. I wish it's usually full of shit, man. Oh, yeah, yeah. Just disgusting, you know. Extra urine. Yeah, socks full of weird shit that he chewed on and whatever. And they Oh, glitter? Yeah, whatever. We saw a dude with a whole canister of glitter one time, we're like,

Starting point is 01:30:24 what? Well, I had a homeless guy that was so bad. And when we booked him in, his sock was, he had a athletic sock and with the stripes on it filled with cash over $3,000. And he was sitting in a gut or eating dirt, you know, it's just crazy that people were giving him money. But they start saying that we have to book all their property in it. You literally got to take that shopping cart, individually go through it, itemize it, process it and put a thing. So now cops went, oh, hell no. Right. I'm not doing this now. Oh, hell no. I don't have the time. Right. I don't want the disease. You've made it totally unreasonable. So again, society completely screwed themselves on how we as a society can help you with a problem. If you had a homeless guy sitting

Starting point is 01:31:05 out here in front of your door, that, that cops in a pickle, you know, he could still do things and try to convince this guy to leave. But all the real tools that we had, the real methods we used, the world got rid of them. Well, why do we, and a lot of times it's lawyers that fucking ruin all this shit. Lawyers ruin everything. Lawyers really have, they've ruined everything. Civil civil law has ruined everything. Civil law has destroyed our country. It really has. And in America, they love civil law. There's so many people getting rich. No off civil law. Man. But the mental, the mental, the mental expense and the emotional expense of all of that type of stuff, all of those rules, the laws, the impossibility of it, that the average human,

Starting point is 01:31:48 the average American, I think, because this is really a lot of its American issues. I think we're getting to the point where we're at our tipping point. A lot of people are on medication. A lot of people are stressed beyond the gills. We can't, people are not able to have children as easily anymore. Everybody's going through all this fertilization, you know, stuff. I think there's tons of stressors. I think we're getting to that point where it's a little bit at the tipping point. You don't know at a CVS now if you are safe or not. You know, like I was there the other day in the makeup lady is now tussling with some fucking six, four man in there. And she's just trying to, you know, make sure that this guy doesn't mash

Starting point is 01:32:31 up her station, you know, like, because the guy's running around taking stuff, right? And so then, like, you have people, they have to be enforcers now. And she's just the makeup person in the makeup person in the photo guy, you know, it's like they shouldn't have to be enforcers. So it's like, and then the truth is they probably should just let insurance handle it or whatever, you know, so it's like, I don't know, we've just gotten ourselves into this place. It feels like a lot of times where the people who are supposed to be helping us, our therapists, our police, or the people that are kind of like, add this buffer to society to make us stay well, are kind of stressed to the gills, it feels like sometimes.

Starting point is 01:33:18 Yeah, I don't know who's gonna police the world coming up, especially now with everything that's going on. Who's going into law enforcement right now? Yeah, what's that been like? Has there been lower amounts of people going in? Have you heard or anything? No, I mean, I there it's, but it seems scary. Yeah, they've tightened the standards. They made it harder because the world's going like, oh, you know, the police are doing everything they can to go, we need the, we need the best candidates, we don't want these problems again in the future. The testing process of becoming a police officer is, it's extraordinary. I mean, it's really extraordinary, the tests I had to go through, you know, psychologists, written tests,

Starting point is 01:33:54 physical tests, I mean, there's just so many interviews, backgrounds, they went in my background, they wouldn't talk to everybody. No. Oh, dude, everybody, they talked to my ex-girlfriends and everybody. Oh, that's a good one. And they also seal it and they, so you never get to know what they said, which is really good. Oh, you should get it when you're done. Dude, on the way out, I knew where it was and I thought many times, I'm going to go in there and bug and pilt this shit, but I didn't want to fuck with my pension. Who knows what they could do, you know what I mean? Yeah. But the, who's going to police? Who's going to do it? Who's going to take this job? I remember as a kid, you know, again, I think today I wouldn't be able to be a police officer. I, today they

Starting point is 01:34:31 require like, I had, I got my degree when I was a cop, so I could become a detective. Okay. So I went to college in, in while I was working. Now they really won't even talk to you in the hiring process unless you have a degree. They're, they're, they're, they're up in standards. Yeah. And are they paying more? Yeah. Well, it's, it's progressive, you know, every year it's like 3%. I remember being a kid, I was 21 years old and I was making like $60,000 a year, you know, for a 21 year old, dude, I was, I was big pimping, you know, I was huge. I was huge and I always shooting bullets in the air and damn catching them out, dude. I always felt like I was being fairly compensated, I guess, because once I got into it, it was so exciting. I hated the weekend. I loved to work. I couldn't

Starting point is 01:35:13 wait to get to work next day because what the fuck's going to go on today? That's how it was every day for a long time when I was young. And I always felt like the money was fair, you know, just to give you an idea, California is the highest paid police officers in the world. They just, they're also the most trained and I'm sure there's somebody that's going to disagree with that from somewhere else, but it just, it is, it is. That's why a lot of the stuff you see, you'll see like in, no bang on Kentucky, but some police officer in a place like Kentucky, you know, doing something stupid and you're going like, that's crazy. The show cops. Yeah. I actually had cops ride with me. You did? I did have cops ride with me. You'd be interested in how that

Starting point is 01:35:49 goes, how that process is to get one show. We're going to talk about that in a minute. Remember that, Zach, so we don't forget that. The, you watch, I watch cops a lot of times just go like, oh my God, I can't believe what this guy's doing, you know, their tacticals and their tactics and all that kind of stuff. Oh yeah. But I just don't know, I don't know what it's going to be like because I do feel like you need to pull as many people from different aspects of society just to have that rounded structure of, you know, I had a lot of compassion for the, the arrest process for people going into it. This guy doesn't understand that. He's a good dude. He's doing the right thing, but he has no idea the impact of taking someone, putting them

Starting point is 01:36:30 in handcuffs, putting them into a cage, putting them in a cage. The guy had to go to work tomorrow. We impounded his car. He's only got 300 bucks in the car. It's just monstrous. And I had a real feel for that. Right. And in reality, if they had known everything about me, they would have probably said, now we're going to pass on you. And I was successful, you know, I wasn't the best or anything like that, but I was very successful. And I was good at the compassion aspect. I think if you go back and talk to everybody, they would go like, yeah, your heart was too big for this job to start with. And I kind of disagree with that. I just understood. I understood what, what, what we're doing here. This is a big deal. Yeah. You know,

Starting point is 01:37:05 you try to explain to somebody, anytime somebody dies in a car accident, in a murder, when I was a homicide detective for a period, you, you have to, somebody has to go tell that family that your loved one's not dead because they don't know at that point, you know? Do you try to act like when you walk up, do you try to act like you don't like, because they're looking like that would be the part for me. If a cop comes and knocks on my door, do you want to look like you have that information or is the goal at first to not look like you have that information? Man, you, we are now in a conversation. This, that was one of the, probably the, the hardest aspect of this work is notifying people that their loved one's dead.

Starting point is 01:37:49 And when you, take me through one of them. Okay. I had, I'm going to give you a, a traffic accident. I had a traffic accident where a 16 year old female was killed. And I went, they start the investigation and usually they'll take someone that's never done it before or whatever to go do the notification. At that time I was on patrol and they said, Hey, listen, you got to go make a notification. And by then it was like three, four o'clock in the morning. And if you're a parent and your kids out and a cop knocks on the door at four o'clock in the morning, the blood leaves your face. It just does. You know, that's just the way it is. You know what I mean? And I, I remember, I did many of these and as they went on, they got way

Starting point is 01:38:27 more difficult. But I remember knocking on the door and being so nervous that it felt like my esophagus had seized. Like I literally couldn't talk. I'm thinking they're going to come to the door. I'm not going to be able to talk right now. And I remember it was, it was a mother. She came to the door and she just woke up and as soon as she saw me, I didn't have to say, you know, something was wrong. She knew that something was very wrong. And the process of informing a love, a parent, especially that their child is dead. When you first start doing it, you're blunt because that's what you're there to do, you know? And I said, you know, are you the parent of Yagata? And by then they're already crying and you, so I'm sorry to inform you, but your daughter

Starting point is 01:39:10 was killed in a traffic accident. And this woman in particular, because it, again, this, these are the trials of police officers. It, right now I feel like I want to cry. Yeah. Same. Yeah. I mean, it just does that to you. And it's, it's, but I have, I have a thousand of these, you know what I'm saying? So I remember, I remember her getting the point and her falling on the ground and as many movies as I've seen of trying to depict police situations, there's nobody and there's nothing that could do that accurately to really depict of what that looks like. It's a pain that to this day, I'm probably 20 years now out from that situation, close to, it still makes me want to cry, just bringing it up. It brings it, you know, I get the pain. And as you do those, and as

Starting point is 01:40:01 you go through them, I had a dad that a girl had hung herself and he was so upset that he grabbed me by the shirt and he started, no, no, and like kind of pushing me back and he had a suburban and he pushed me into the suburban. My elbow went through the back window of this thing. That's how hard he pushed me. And I knew what was happening there. He wasn't mad at me. This guy was just so grieving. But as those go on, as those situations occur and as you do more and more of those, and as you introduce new officers and take them to do it, it becomes so much more difficult. I remember sitting out front of homes towards the end of my career, sitting in the car and, and I was a sergeant at the time and I wouldn't send young guys because I just couldn't fathom

Starting point is 01:40:43 me doing that to them because I knew what it had done. It's done to me. You know what I mean? So I remember looking at this particular one, it was the morning. It was like six o'clock in the morning because there's someone's coming. And I remember seeing them walking in front of the window of their home in the kitchen and me realizing, okay, I got 45 minutes until my shift's up. I'm going to sit here for 45 more minutes because these are the last 45 minutes of these people's lives. You know what I mean? And because I was, at that point in my career has gone up, I was crying. Just the thought of doing this. I had my own child now. It just, it became so much larger now of doing them for so many times that I sat there forever putting it off as long as I can and

Starting point is 01:41:24 then walking up to it, it, it, it's indescribable. It really truly is indescribable. Knocking on a door and telling someone they're most precious, whatever, husband, wife, dad, son, grandma, anything is gone. And, and, and the scenario that you do that is so, it's so vast. You know, there's so many old people that live alone and the family lives far away and, and no one's really accounting for them. And it's August and they fucking die on Thursday. And by Tuesday, the neighbor's going, something stinks next door and there's fucking flies all over the window. And they send you out at two, three o'clock in the morning and you got a fucking flashlight and you walk up to the house or look at the window going, fuck yeah, something's dead in here,

Starting point is 01:42:03 man. I, you can smell it, which is a smell you never forget. You know exactly the smell of death. Really? Oh, exactly. I can, if, if, if there's something dead and that smell is permeating in the air, I smell it. I'll tell you something's dead within these parameters. Do you know it's human usually or not? Can you tell human or not? No, I don't, I don't know. Right. I don't know that, but I know human. Okay. But, and you start going through that. This is just a whole different story. You start going through that house and you know, you got to kick the door in, you know, because no one answers the door and it's dark and you're so fucking scared and wigged out that you don't even take the time to hit light switches to turn the light on. You're going

Starting point is 01:42:39 with a flashlight, which makes a million fucking times worse, you know? It's like, be smart, hit the light switch at least it's there, but you're going around corners going, okay, this is the fucking door, you know? And I've kicked open so many doors and seen the most horrific shit, dude, you can ever imagine in your entire life. You know how many dudes die taking a shit? A lot of them, huh? A lot. Very prevalent for old people. There's actually a medical term for it. No, really? What is it? I couldn't tell you. Just bring it up, Zach. We can get that information for you. Yeah, the pushing of bowel movement, it stops their heart. And I can't even tell you how many times I've had the dudes on the ground and have to force open the door

Starting point is 01:43:13 because their body's in the way. To the toilet and they're just rigmaroded. Yeah. And are they usually like this or are they more like this? Well, rigmaritous has a process. Or do they do like this? No, they fall off the toilet. No. Yeah, they fall off the toilet. Oh, dang. Yeah, they fall. So they're blocking the door. That's what I'm saying. You got to push the door. So you're pushing the door and it's just something gruesome about pushing a body and trying to get around and looking at it. And usually they're in August. If you don't find someone for a week in August and they never turn the air conditioning on, that body's in a state of fucking disaster. Is it bloated? That whole process, that's a process. Wow. The death process,

Starting point is 01:43:53 rigmaritous sets in, it comes out, then you start bloating. I've had them where they're bloated so big that there's big water blisters on their back and like the corner, a little corner, a little Asian girl dressed to the nines with a little suit on. Oh, damn, boy. Yeah, yeah. Really pretty little girl. I died as a meter, you know? Yeah, you don't want to deal with the corner, dude. And those are some, those are some different people. You got to be. Are they really pretty sketched out on some damn Wednesday Atomses, huh? Yeah. Well, dude, I had a corner at LA County corner's office that we were in there on a autopsy, which is a whole different story. Autopsies are disgusting. They're brutal. They use saws

Starting point is 01:44:31 and they use hedge clippers to cut the rib cages away because they canoe them. They'll, they take away your rib cages and they take all your guts out. They cut your, they cut your head, they peel your hair forward so your hair is touching your face. They cut your dome off and take out the brain and all kinds of wicked stuff. But afterwards, as a homicide investigator, we would go to those because we'd want to see the trajectory of the bullets and get a determination on what they determine, how far and all the different evidence you can get from an autopsy. I had this dude who did an autopsy, he's gloves, covering blood and he went in to talk to me and he went into this little lunch room and he got his

Starting point is 01:45:04 lunch out and he took off his gloves. This fucker pulled out a sandwich, like a meat sandwich, that meat in it. And as he's talking to me, as he's talking to me, he's eating a meat sandwich. And I remember being digging my fingers into my leg. Just like, oh, just to not think about it because it was so, it was making me so nauseous. You know? Yeah, I don't think I could have a damn turkey tom while somebody's just laying there. Hell no. Corners are a different breed, man. You've got to be a different breed to be chopping up people all day long. Yeah, or even as to be taking, yeah, like you're taking vitamins or, yeah, if you're going to be on an exercise bike or something in the same room as like a body's creed. It's so weird, yeah.

Starting point is 01:45:42 Well, anyway, back to the real quick on the Asian. The Asian girl, she had to flip, she had to flip this body over that was bloated. So she put a rope around the opposite side of the lady's wrist, and this lady was deep into decomposing. And she threw the rope over the lady and she went in their side and she was going to pull this rope so the arm would flip her over and she'd be able to see the front of her. So she's pulling this rope over and because the body was so decomposed, it ripped off the skin of the entire arm and the body fluids of this lady went straight up on her and on her face and in our mouth. It was all over her. And this girl, literally, she, you know, she was shocked for a second and she's, oh my God, she said some things

Starting point is 01:46:26 and she went over and got some wet wipes out of her thing and she wiped off her face and she just went back to fucking business, man. It just ate a damn butterscotch out of her purse. Dude, German temperature things and her liver and shit. Crazy, man. Crazy. Crazy. That's the dark arts, dude. That is when you are a real concierge of the devil, I feel like, if you're there doing coronation, you know, coronarizing. That's definitely a relationship killer, man. I don't suggest anybody. If you find out your date and someone's a coroner, that's going to be a strange life. Yeah, man. That's really going to be, because they're going to want to watch you sleep, you know? Yeah. Forever, maybe. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:47:05 Pull up that information you had there, Zachary, if you don't mind. Oh, I had, it's defecation syncope is the name for dying while you're shooting. What is it again? And are you dying? You sound sick, Zach. I'm okay. It's defecation syncope. There you go. Okay. Very, very prevalent. What does it say about it? Can you tell it? Just give us a little more intel. Defecation syncope describes the vasovagile response that occurs while defecating that results in a loss of consciousness. Wow. Yeah, for old people.

Starting point is 01:47:32 The loss of consciousness results from bearing down to increase the pressure and the rectum. Damn, boy. So I guess, yeah, you can have to, I mean, this guy just shit himself to death, really. God. Yeah, happens pretty often with older people. Something to do with their heart stops their heart and they die and they're by themselves. And yeah, pretty brutal, pretty brutal. Life is pretty brutal. Life is. I always felt like it would be a good thing for the world to have some kind of a venue where, like, I got a million stories, you know, I got a million things I've experienced where one guy, one cop, one story,

Starting point is 01:48:10 you know, and just to give the world the idea of what's going on, because nobody knows what's going on. You think you're, just the perception of how many police there are. Any given night in, I don't give you the example of the city of Whittier, which is a pretty big city. There was four or five cops. That's it. Wow. That's it. You know what I mean? That's all that there was. Now, granted, there's a lot of police around and right and they'll come. But that's, you're not really safe, which is four or five cops. You know what I mean? Like, to this day, I'm telling you, I could rob any bank. Yeah. I know exactly how to do it. Really? You could get to absolutely. Absolutely. I'm not gonna say it.

Starting point is 01:48:47 I don't want to, but I could absolutely do it. You can write it down for me. Yeah. Just because there's such a lack of officers or such a lack of staffing, you know, there's such a, we're just unsafe. And I think if someone could put something together where they just, cops came and say, Hey, this is, this is a story. And people start hearing that every day and just going like, dude, the world, the stuff that's going on in the world right now, you know, the stuff that goes on every day and has always gone on is always is going to go on. I think people would be a little more understanding of the difficulty of the job, you know, the difficulty of policing the world, you know, maybe be a little more

Starting point is 01:49:25 less judgmental, you know, a little less harsh. Oh, well, I think this conversation alone, and I've always been kind of, I mean, pretty much pro police. I mean, if there's a bad policeman, I'm gonna be against that person. If there's a bad anything, I'd kind of be against that person or at least want to investigate what's going on with them. But, you know, we grew up in a real poor environment. And so the cops would always hang out around the poor people because we were outside a lot. And so when I was growing up, we'd be outside. So the cops, I think sometimes would be on their, you know, and they they'd stop and chat, you know, I feel like you kind of knew the cops better when you were poor because you were outside, there'd be more calls to your

Starting point is 01:50:04 neighborhood, because somebody was always doing something, there was always some domestic violence or somebody was, you know, you know, button some drugs or something small, you know, just some small ball locally. So the cops would be around. So you get to kind of know them, you know. And it was kind of fun in a way, you know, and then one of them would start dating somebody in the neighborhood. You know, like, not dicey, but just like, you know, I remember chicks thought it was kind of hot to date a cop, you know, when I was growing up, it was like, yeah, I get to date a cop. Would you say that now? It seems crazy. I can't imagine there's any girls going, oh, I want to date a cop. Yeah. I mean, really, who would want to date a cop now? Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:50:44 I think there's still a lot of like, you know, America first type people, I think who believe that cops are good people, you know, and so those people would probably be fine with it. I think maybe more scared for the cops, probably there might be more fear in that sense. Yeah, the lifestyle, again, it goes down to, they just don't know, you know, it's a tough life, my, you know, my wife's married a cop, you know, tough life, tough life, you know, but I'm out now and things are good. And but it's a tough life. It's a different life. The world doesn't know what's going on out there. You have no idea what's going on out there. I do. Yeah. It's a hard reality to live with. You never feel safe. Well, and it's just not fair that there's not an accurate

Starting point is 01:51:27 kind of representation of what goes on out there. There's not that that person you call their, you guys are expected to handle so much. Like some people are mentally unwell, some somebody's got a gun, somebody's doing sex traffic and somebody's trying to hide a kid in their attic, you know, it's like, you don't fucking know. Nope. You never know what you're walking into either. Many situations where you think it's one thing and it's something totally different. You know what I mean? Did you get a lot of, was there a lot of that? Because, you know, a few years ago, sex trafficking was like the big buzz, you know, it was like, you'd see things on commercial, like there's a million women being sex trafficked in America.

Starting point is 01:52:01 And I'm like, that's fucking insane. But I could believe that there's some of it, you know, but I don't think there's a million women, you know, like you'd see some, every few years, there's like a big thing, a big push, you know? Yeah, I don't, to be honest, I don't know. I don't know. I never really dealt with a lot of that. I never, I don't under, I don't have a lot of knowledge on that. So it'd be pretty responsible for me to make a comment about that. But in my police career, I dealt with prostitutes, you know, without, there was a lot of stuff with prostitution. And were they just trying to survive most of them? Were most of them just women trying to survive or most of them women that you found that had been in a, where they

Starting point is 01:52:35 were being abused by a man and used to sex, money and sex? You know what? I didn't, I couldn't answer that because I never really, very rarely would I have an intimate conversation with someone I was dealing with. Right. I deal with enough. I don't need, I don't want to know the story. The story is irrelevant. You know, if you start getting into the stories, you can kind of change the way you handle stuff. And the reality of it is that you were soliciting, I'm just dealing with soliciting, you know, if they go into a story of, oh my God, my dad raped me and this and that, you, as a human being, I think you would tend to go like, oh my God, this poor thing. And I just got to deal with the situation because if she gives me a story and I let her off because

Starting point is 01:53:11 her story's sad, well, how, how fair is it the next prostitute that I arrest them just because I don't listen to their story? It's another difficulty of it, you know? Right. That plays a lot with tickets. You know, tickets, man, are, tickets are a big deal, dude. Everyone gets pulled over and, and they want, they want to be, get, get out of the ticket, you know? Come on, man, help me out, do me a, but the reality of it is, if you were driving 75 miles per hour and I pulled you over and you're, I noticed who you are, you're a cool guy or we have a conversation or you're very upfront and go, totally my fault, totally so sorry. And I go, okay, man, just slow down. The next guy I pull over, let's do the same exact thing. I don't give him the opportunity

Starting point is 01:53:52 to talk because maybe I'm in a rush or I don't know who he is and I give him a ticket. Well, now I've done, I've done something wrong. Right. You know what I mean? I've done something wrong. So there's a real dilemma with that. So when you start giving people breaks, when they're, the next person you're doing wrong, so that's, that's an aspect people never really think of. So if you're really doing policing right, there is no gray. Right. But we all want them to deal with the gray and I dealt with the gray constantly, you know? And is that a real thing that you have to like, people are like, all right, we, we, we, we, the city needs to make money. We need 10, because everybody's guilty when they get pulled 99% of the time. Yes. So is that a real thing?

Starting point is 01:54:28 It's like, Hey, we got to make sure if you're, if you're letting people off, we can't let them off anymore the next month. As far as like quotas and stuff like that. No, they're too smart for that. This is how they do it. There, there is no quotas. But what they'll do is, is they'll say, you've got to be within five tickets of the team average, the team being the watch that's going out. Okay. So day watches, usually guys that have been on for a long time that just want to work nine to five Monday through Friday, those guys don't do shit. I mean, they're doing the absolute minimum because they're burnout, they're tired, they're old, their tickets are going to be really super low. So what the department does is they'll take a guy fresh out of the academy. You can't

Starting point is 01:55:01 wait to write some tickets and they'll throw them on day watch. So now that guy's writing 40 tickets. Fucking penmanship, Henry out there. Yeah, just doing it for everything. Yeah. So they'll put that guy on the watch and he'll write 40 tickets in a month. Now the expectation is for everyone else has got to be at about 32, 33 or you're going to get on your e-mail. So is there a quota? No, there is no quota. We just got to be within the team average, which is the average that we should be at. Right. Again, civil liability. It's a way to beat around it. You know what I mean? That's what they'll do. That's how they'll, they'll, they'll get the tickets they need. Let's get you another order. I got a P. Yeah, yeah, I got P too. We can, we can jump back on for a few more minutes.

Starting point is 01:55:42 Yeah. My dad was no, my dad was a great dude, man. He just was no, there was no bullshit with my dad. Really? No bullshit. He's third poor, grew up in Baltimore, Oklahoma. Oh, wow. He backyard was a cemetery. Dad was a drunk, died young, used to beat him, you know, the whole field. He, he was white trash. My dad was self-proclaimed white trash. You know, had nothing, shoes with holes, all the stories and shit. But he became a really successful executive. He was the vice president of Hebrew national. We're not Jewish, but. With Hebrew national to Wieners? Yeah. Franks. Wow. And his, his brother became a doctor. Wow. That's huge. They came from nothing. Oh, it's huge. When you come from nothing, man, for somebody to be a fucking doctor,

Starting point is 01:56:25 for some, I remember in our neighborhood, somebody was a lunch lady and we were like, damn Miss Annie. She made it. Well, you say that, but his brother who became a doctor, guys, he's like a fucking serial killer. Really? Yeah. He got raided by the spot and he was, he was one of the guys that was writing prescriptions. Oh, he was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that thing, that whole thing was crazy. Do you see that dope sick that? Yeah. Very good. How much saying is that? Say it again? Dope sick. It was like that document. It was like a television show. I think it was on Hulu. I watched it. I was trying to think what the content was.

Starting point is 01:57:00 It was like Michael, who was in it, Zach? Michael, Michael Keaton. Michael Keaton and he was a doctor and he got on, he started prescribing these pills because it, they made them sound safe and everybody in his town got hooked. Yes. Yes. And then he got hooked. That was huge. I'll tell you something. I worked, I was a police officer. I was in Narcs during the heart of that. Opioid epidemic. Opioid epidemic and. Yeah. And it was some Jewish family, I think, that ran Sackler family. What were they? That actually owned the business? That owned the business and they kept compromising. Oh, yeah. Sackler family. They kept compromising officials and getting them to work and bribing

Starting point is 01:57:47 people. It's unbelievable how they kept in the business. Yeah. What was that like, the opioid epidemic on the street level? Well, we, at the time it was going on, they weren't calling it an opioid, opioid, they weren't, they weren't, there was no identifying it, but we started noticing that we would catch guys coming out of dentist's office and they would, they would have different kinds of containers. One of the ones that was real prevalent for some reason was these little square like lunch coolers and they'd have them filled with prescription bottles and we called them fishers and what they would do is they would go to these low end doctors and dentists and they would just fill prescript, find these doctors

Starting point is 01:58:21 that go, oh, my back hurts and they go, oh, okay, let me write you a prescription. They move this out a little bit more, if you can, or just like this way. That's right. Yeah. Okay. They would, they would fill, they would find all these doctors that would fill prescriptions and they would go to like 10 doctors a day and we catch them and they'd have like a thousand pills, you know, and we start going, this is really becoming prevalent. We're finding this more and more and I think we actually had a guy OD out front of a dentist's office and somehow we found his prescription that the prescription was from that dentist and that's how we kind of got turned on and it started going in motion. It's finding out what's going on here, man, is that

Starting point is 01:58:58 these doctors somehow are making tremendous amounts of money, building insurance by these guys coming in saying my knee hurts and them just giving them a prescription, right? Build the insurance, get a bunch of money, knowing this guy's going to be back in about three days. I'm just going to do it again, you know what I mean? And these guys would go to like five, six, seven doctors. Yeah, they had that documentary about a kid in New Orleans that got murdered by some pills and it led to the dad like searching out this entire like kind of pill farming thing that was going on there. I can't remember the name of that. It was pretty fascinating though. The pharmacist? The pharmacist, that was it. I actually tried to reach out to that dad and

Starting point is 01:59:37 even have him come on as a guest. I mean, it was, the story is just so tragic, but then he busts, he helps bust this doctor who was, I mean, giving out insane amounts of pills. They would show like they had like footage outside of her pharmacy or whatever and they'd have like 50, 60 people out there just waiting at like up to like 1 a.m. and they'd have a security guard like having them go in one at a time and she was just sitting in their writing scripts and when they finally found her, she was geeked out to the gills. Yeah, just insane. Was there ever instances where cops would start using the, like in to help relieve some of their own like PTSD and stuff that was going on that they ever, does that become an issue ever? I'm trying to think firsthand if I know any,

Starting point is 02:00:24 I don't really, I mean drinking, there was always guys that always drank, but that's always been socially acceptable. Yeah, that's pretty normal. Yeah, I'm just thinking if it, yeah, because those opioids, it's such an easy thing to just take and use, you know? It's a good example that you were saying like, and this is when I'm kind of reluctant because I don't want to cause any problems for people in police work right now, but pulling from general society, police departments are staffed by people from the community. They go through a hiring process and they get, we get everything and this is a good example of people judging the cops based on the actions of one person or a dozen or so. We actually, at my police department had two different cops,

Starting point is 02:01:03 one I worked with forever, one I knew right off the bat that were child investors. Damn. That we found out they were child investors. As a matter of fact, the one officer that we caught the first one, he molested the son of one of our other officers, they were best friends. So again, you're talking about a situation where the world goes, we can't even have one bad cop. Well, fuck, we're with you on, you know, not with you, but we're also just piece of a piece of society. We're dealing with the two. Yeah. You know, we're dealing with the two. As soon as we find out that's there, I mean, we, we obviously, this guy was gone in prison and we, we handled that situation, but we're no different than anybody else. You know, cops are no different

Starting point is 02:01:44 than the people that are cops are no different than anybody else as far as. Yeah, it's kind of funny. If you took a group of guys and you just showed me a group of guys, I don't know if I know if they were cops or not, unless you put the uniforms on them, you know? Certain ones. Right. Some guys, yeah. Some guys got the high and tight and the big mustache and, you know, they're always wearing a fanny pack. Yeah. But you know what? So yeah, right? As soon as you see that guy, though, even, even cops look at that guy and go like, dude, you're mowing your fucking lawn, put your gun away, you know? Right. Cop it down a little. Yeah, totally. Yeah, totally. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. And those are the guys that end up being 23 years old and going to the night

Starting point is 02:02:17 club with a gun on them. Right. You know what I mean? Right. Like I'm a cop. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, how stupid can you be? You know, how stupid can you be going into a drinking situation, carrying a gun? Because if someone punches you in the face, what are you going to do? Yeah, punch them with a bullet. Yeah. Yeah. That's where you see stuff like that. Gun them. Yeah, for sure. There was a couple of, what do you think about this? So when you get in, when you got into detectiveing, did you detective anything like this Idaho murder? Do you follow that kind of stuff? Do you follow crimes sometimes, like especially high profile? No, I don't follow anything. I don't even want to know about it. But high profile,

Starting point is 02:02:53 most of my murders were domestic and gang related. Okay. Where I was at, I didn't have anything particularly high profile. I had a lot of domestic situations, which real quick on one, this is a good example for you too, for hotels. I'll give you a little information on hotels. You never know what goes on in hotels, man. Any hotel room you're in, I'm going to give you a little touch of some stuff that goes on in those hotels before you checked in. We had a situation on a murder where a guy got arrested for domestic violence and taken into custody. For whatever reason, the judge sentenced him to 90 days, but decided he's going to give him 24 hours to get his affairs in order before he reports to go into custody, which is nuts,

Starting point is 02:03:39 which is totally, totally nuts. So he releases this guy. This guy immediately goes and kidnaps the girl that he beat, takes her to a hotel in our city. In the hotel, he executes her, shoots her in the back of the head. She falls on the bed and then blows his head off. He actually puts it up to his thing. So he's on the ceiling. His, the brain's everything on the ceiling. So when we, a cleaning lady tried to get in because he had put a table against the door and sees it and calls us. So we get there, we push open the door and enough time had passed where the woman had fallen onto the bed. It was one of those cheap polyester type bedspreads and it, it's almost holds water. So when she bled out,

Starting point is 02:04:23 accumulated in that thing. So her face was in the blood where you couldn't see any of her face. She was face down and it was already coagulating on top. So it was like a giant scab on top. You know what I'm saying? He was all over the ceiling and the falling back. We do the investigation, we get everything done, totally gruesome, totally gross. It was like late, late three, four o'clock in the morning that we leave and the next day I didn't come in. I came in the next day and I needed to get some information from the hotel. So I went back to the hotel and I go into the office. And so I'm going into the office. This is, this is less than 24 hours. Well, a little bit over 24 hours. And I look up and there was a fucking family walking out of that

Starting point is 02:04:59 hotel room. They're going out to go about and do whatever they're going to do. And I walked in the office and I said, dude, you rented that hotel room out. How did you get it clean? And this guy went on to explain to me how they have people on standby and he got it clean and they painted this and painted that. No mention of that family. 24 hours ago, there was a double murder in that hotel room. Crazy. That's a small story on hotel rooms. Dang, man. That's kind of what? Yeah. We'll leave the light on for you, huh? Yeah, no shit. And that is kind of hotel it was. We'll leave the light on. My God. Yeah. Crazy. Again, a perfect example of the world just doesn't know what walks the earth. You know? Well, it's just another example also of, are we processing

Starting point is 02:05:45 the travesties that happen? Are we, are we just, you know, are we still able, how much travesty and you know, stuff has built up that we just can't even process it as a society, you know? Yeah. Even things like that. It's like turning around. Like, is there some, is there a little bit of a vibe where maybe the fucking kid, you know, one of the kids sleeping in there develops a cancer 40 years from now because he fucking slept in the aura of a, you know, two deceased people nine hours after. Yeah. Yeah. For real. I, you know, I look, and it's some of that's kind of like this, you know, it's more this, you know, imaginative sort of thinking, but I don't know how much of it is, you know? Well, I also came up in the meth lab time. Oh, yeah. California was full of meth

Starting point is 02:06:30 labs when I first started. Get your motor running. And meth labs were scary, man. Really? You usually found a meth lab a lot of the times you would discover a meth lab because it'd blow up because those are volatile. They blew up all the time. So you can't shoot in there? No, no shit. You found a meth lab, you had to back out quick because, I mean, meth is just made out of red lye and Coleman lantern fluid, lighter fluid, just all kinds of shit that you have no business ingesting, you know what I mean? It's all volatile and there's gases and they always would blow up. Unless you want to fuck for a long time, I think it's okay to have a little, you know? Yeah. I mean, don't, have you ever called some people do sex on meth for a long time, right? Yeah,

Starting point is 02:07:05 with a dildo with a coat hanger. Oh my God. Sorry I had to take you back there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I do tweakers, tweakers where tweakers are the life on. Yeah. Tweakers are the lifeblood of place where the difference, the only tweakers are so different than any other drug. Heroin addicts, marijuana, we'll touch real quick on marijuana. Police work in marijuana, I identified really quick. I'm not a marijuana advocate, but I identified really quick that this is ridiculous. Every single person I ever came in contact that was stoned never gave me a problem at all. In fact, they were some of the best contacts I ever had. Wow. Best contacts. I identified really early that this is something that's just, it needs to go away. Every dude

Starting point is 02:07:48 that was drunk was a nightmare. And that was legal and this is not. I can go on forever and tell you about that. No, it is ridiculous. And why do we have those laws against marijuana? Because old white people, you know, back in the day, hysteria, they didn't know what it was, they didn't understand. So I don't know, I don't know why. The devil's lettuce or whatever. All that shit. Yeah, yeah. But we're getting better. California's good. The rest of the world's getting better. I really believe they should be legal everywhere for sure, 100%. But drugs, as far as drug goes, heroin addicts, they do heroin. They stay home. They nod out. Right. Pills, stay home. You know, marijuana to the fun. Nitrous oxide, whatever drug you talk about,

Starting point is 02:08:27 it's not an issue. Methamphetamine, man, fucker does methamphetamine, dude. He cannot stay home. He cannot stay home. He's got to get to work. Wow. And it's always at night. You know, that's when we get to work. We would find tweakers. They had all these different processes of how they'd get their money. Copper was a real big one. They love copper. They would wipe out whole housing tracks, you know, of their copper. But you'd get the occasional one, which I had one. Actually, I think I had two where they would go into industrial complexes and they would go into these massive warehouses that had those giant metal cabinets that had the 10 wires that were coming down it that were like 20 inch in diameter. You know what I mean? Just massive fiber optic

Starting point is 02:09:09 wires and all that. No, they was just like electricity. There was like a box where the main electricity would come in and it would all branch off that. But inside that there'd be massive wiring and these fuckers would go in there and they try to cut that wiring out and it'd be live. So it would cook them, dude. I mean, it would just they would instantly just get electrocuted and either a fire or there would be different ways that it would that we become aware of it that we get there. But by the time you go out there, these guys would be onion rings. I mean, onion rings because they've been flowing through them flowing through. And what did they start to look like kind of like a jet like a jerky? Do they start to look like a burnt completely totally

Starting point is 02:09:45 burnt? Yeah, completely. Does it almost they almost look fake? Yes, a lot of that shit looks fake. A lot of this stuff that's really brutal. I had an industrial accident where a guy got sucked into a turbine. It was a big giant piece of machinery that had this like shaft that was a spinning shaft that came out of the engine. And it was about I don't know about four feet off three feet off the ground, I'd say. And it ran to another engine of some type. And they had that covered with metal like gates. So that things metal, no one could touch it. And it was in the front. Well, these guys in the warehouse were playing football. And the dude threw the football and he missed it. And it went into where those things were. So this dumbass decided to step over the gate where

Starting point is 02:10:28 those things are spinning a billion miles an hour to get the football. And the sweater he had tied around his waist got sucked into it and it taffy them. It sucked him into the piston and wrapped him around it. And by the time he was completely wrapped up into it, his head had been hitting the concrete so many times that it was going around that it emptied his insides perfectly. So it was on the ceiling on the back wall and then shot across the thing. So when we got there, they they were in such a panic, they hadn't even shut off the machinery. So this thing was going brrrrrrr. And you're hearing this guy's head not ding ding ding ding ding ding. By then it was like a wet noodle, you know, a giant wet noodle. It was just disgusting, dude. And you told them,

Starting point is 02:11:12 you know, why have you turned this off? And they, you know, they made sense. No, we didn't want to see it. We don't want to stop. We don't want to see it. We don't know what to do. So when you turn that thing off and you see that dude wrapped up in there and the fact that you want to talk about fake, you know what I mean? I mean, it looked totally fake. It didn't look like a human being at all. And cops have to respond to that. Oh yeah. Anything that happens like that in the industry, right? Cops are always the first on everything because firemen are at the station playing video games, you know? Yeah, other having hot dogs. Hell yeah. Dude, I went to, I used to date a fireman's daughter. You date, invite me, anything they were doing, all they were doing, hot dogs.

Starting point is 02:11:47 Best job ever. Every time, dude. They're like, you want to, we're doing this big event. I get to the event every time. It was 11 dudes sitting down, eating hot dogs. Having a good time, playing games, watching best job. The one thing cops and firemen have in commons, they all want it. We all want to be firemen, man. Really? Oh hell yeah, dude. If I can go back in time, best job in the world. Yeah. I got nothing but admiration for them, dude. And the world, the world loves them. The world loves firemen, dude. You know, they ain't holding nobody accountable. And everything's a science too for firemen. They, oh god, firemen are going to hate me. They do see all the tragedy and death, which is brutal. And I feel for them in that.

Starting point is 02:12:25 But the other side of it is, is that everybody loves them. Yeah. Because all they're doing is saving and helping. And everything that they do, essentially, is science. You know, I mean, it's a fire. If it comes in contact with that, we know what's going to happen. The wind's blowing this way. We know what's going to happen. It's all pretty predictable. It's not that dangerous. There's aspects that are dangerous, but you know. Yeah, you guys, there's a lot more, it's a lot more hypothesized, like hypothesizing in the moment going on. Yes. There's not like a lot of. Even house fires. If there's a house fire, cops are always the first ones on it. Dude, I'd shoot. If I saw a cop, a house fire, I'd

Starting point is 02:12:59 damn shoot at it. That's who I'd be that first guy. Well, again, man, the expectation is, if you're a cop and you get there and someone's screaming, my baby's inside, my baby's, oh hell, yeah. Go to an award ceremony for the end of the year at a police department. There are, it's always at least one cop that went into a burning building to help somebody. Wow. Because the fireman takes a while to get there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, also, yeah, it's like, it's so hard to get a group of guys to do anything together, especially if you can't. And that truck is so hard to get through. It's like, get them a little, you know, I guess we have to have water in it, huh? Well, the water's already there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, there, I think

Starting point is 02:13:35 they're already full. I don't know, man. Our relationship with cops and firemen is kind of crazy. When I was on graveyard, just because I was so jealous of the life they lived and things are good, I would call them out for anything. Three o'clock in the morning, dude. I tell you, you're not feeling good, man. You need to be seen by paramedic. All right, let me hook this up. And I would, we need paramedics just, and they knew it because we eventually become friends because they're the same station. Yeah, totally. They would see me and be upset, but you know. I love stopping by fire stations, man. Fire, fire dudes have always been cool and it's nice to get it to go in there, you know. Great job. Yeah. It's cool, man. Especially in

Starting point is 02:14:06 New Orleans, like we always love them because they also are part of the parades. So that's a big thing in Louisiana is firemen get this whole second, they have this whole second like appreciation because the fire trucks are in the parades a lot of times. Oh, yeah. So you see a lot of that. Everyone's cheering them, waving flags. Yeah. What do you think is like one of the biggest problems that's facing police right now? I mean, I know you said some of the PTSD and and I say you said low staffing too, or the fear that people don't like a bad public image, you know? Yeah. I'm saying bad public images, not doing it justice. The biggest issues for police right now, first and foremost, it always has been, but they're now just starting

Starting point is 02:14:50 to acknowledge it and talk about it and get real programs in place. Number one killer of cops is suicide. Yeah. That's a weird statement to say, but like I got a guy that I worked with who's in Texas right now, he's working in a program, a religious program that reaches out and helps cops and firemen and first responders with mental wellness. What's it called? Do you know? Charter Oaks. Charter Oaks Academy or no, not Charter Oaks Academy. Charter Oaks something, but he just made me aware that this one police department in the last couple of months, six hot cops killed themselves. You just don't hear about that because it's bad publicity. Cops don't even want that out. It's a scary thing when someone says, oh, cops are all killing

Starting point is 02:15:32 themselves. Wow. All the cops are unstable. There just is no good publicity for cops. You know? So, and what's happened recently, what happened this last time with the riots and the political aspect that got involved and allowed it to continue in the way it was put on the media and portrayed, it's set us back a lot. It's set policing back a lot. Cops are scared to do their job. They're just scared to do their job. Oh, I can't even imagine. Yeah, the public doesn't understand. It's difficult to describe, but it's life and death. Cops shouldn't have to die just because the people want the fight to be fair. There is no fight here. My job is to get him in custody

Starting point is 02:16:23 and take him before magistrate. That's it. And I got to do what I got to do to get him in custody, but if this guy's fighting me the way he is, he'll kill me. I have to think he'll kill me to get away. I have no choice. Yeah, especially if a guy that's already killed other people are done. This is a bad guy. It's not a good guy who's here on the ground. It's like this ain't a great guy. This ain't a guy who's been doing great stuff or learning Spanish or something all day. This is somebody who has been doing crime. How big is race becoming history? I was just going to say that. Is that where it gets to? Is that like become a big problem? I can only give you my experience. Right. So I'm only speaking for me. I worked at two different police departments.

Starting point is 02:17:05 In the two police departments I worked in, one of the communities was predominantly black, it was South Central. The other one was predominantly Hispanic, Hispanic white, you know, a little bit of everything. The statement that the police are systematically racist, I know for 100% it's not true because I was part of the police. I was part of these two police departments and if it was there, I tell you, did I see it? I absolutely did. In my entire career in the field, I saw two guys that I felt like that guy is treating that person different based on the color of his skin. It's not too bad over the whole course of it. The whole course. One guy was blatant. He was blatant and they actually got rid of him relatively

Starting point is 02:17:49 quick. The other guy wasn't as blatant, but it did appear that way. What is the reality of it is, is that when you work in a community, usually that community is, it's predominantly something. Oh yeah. It's predominantly something. And it's not that you, because in my experience in my police departments, I worked with black guys, Hispanic guys, Asian guys, we were everything. Everything was women, you know. Especially California. Yes, everything was represented. And within those walls, there was, it didn't matter. You know what I mean? If it did exist, it was something that we did amongst each other in jest. Like a guy that worked with was black ripping on me because some stereo, stupid stereotype about white people or whatever,

Starting point is 02:18:35 you know? It's something we would do and joke about. But I never saw anyone treat anyone any different because of the color of his skin. Unfortunately, what would happen is, is that you'd be in these communities and you would develop, I don't even like to use the word prejudice, but you would develop feelings about the way these communities operate because you're constantly coming in contact with the worst of it. Right. You know what I mean? Constantly, in any scenario. Right. If I'm working in an all black community or predominantly black, predominantly Latino community and I'm an officer, then I'm coming in contact with the bad guys from that community. Yes. Yes. You're dealing with the bad guys and you start to

Starting point is 02:19:15 develop over years and years and years of the same. And there are unique aspects to different types of communities. You know, the crimes and the way the things that people do in Hispanic community are different than the black community, different to the white community, different to the Asian community. So there are things that go on that are repetitive where you start getting callous towards it. So it wasn't a matter of people being racially prejudiced. It was a matter of being, it's a terrible word, but prejudice against specific aspects of a culture. You know, specific aspects of a culture. Like I can give you ones that aren't very controversial. There's a lot of the Hispanic community is really divided up. There's first generation

Starting point is 02:19:59 Hispanics. There's second J's. And they're very different within themselves. Like a first had generation of Hispanic people that come here, hardworking, kind, loving, family, just ever just good people, right? I mean, you'd go like, Hey, man, come stay with me for a week and not even think about it. But they were super, super hard drinkers. You know, they would get together for a kinsen yet and you'd get calls at three o'clock in the morning and they're all beating the shit out of each other because they're all so drunk, you know, or at a two-year-old's birthday party, you get there and go like it's a fucking two-year-old's birthday party. Why are you guys drunk? And it's three o'clock in the morning, but it was prevalent. So you would get

Starting point is 02:20:35 callous towards that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it's fun getting fucked up around a kid. Sometimes, you know, if you, unless you're getting real weird. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of that too. But in every community that I dealt with, you would have that and people would start identifying stuff and things would start becoming, you would develop callous towards it. Right. Yeah, you're like some of this culture, some of this. You never thought you had, you never thought. Nah, man. And when they say that, it's so frustrating because I see some of it and I, and the incident where the dude knelt on his neck, totally wrong. As a police officer, you're looking at that and going like, okay, for him to get in that situation, I can,

Starting point is 02:21:16 I'm not going to judge. For him to get in a situation where he's got his knee on his neck, I'm not going to judge because that can happen. I've been in situations where that happens. Where you're trying to get a guy in custody, even though he's handcuffed, he is still doing stuff that can cause harm to himself and others. Right. There's no reason why that guy didn't, after 10 to 15 seconds, stand up and put, try to put that guy back into the car. Right. So what he started doing and the world insinuated, that guy is racist. Well, we don't know if that had anything to do with the color of that guy's skin. All we do know is, is that guy crossed the line and should face consequences because he started administering punishment at the,

Starting point is 02:21:58 where he was at. And that is not his job. His job is in the custody. And even if in his thought process, his intent was not to administer punishment, he should know better than to put, be in that situation for any length of time because it can cause harm. That guy was wrong. Right. But to insinuate that it was race-based. And if I'm, I didn't watch it, but I don't think anything ever even came out where this, there's ever anything in this guy's background where there was any instance of racism whatsoever. Yeah. Yet if you go to ask anyone right now, they're going to say, oh, that was racist. Cops are racist. Right. We have no idea that that, it could have been, could have been, you know, we'd have to be intimately involved. I imagine

Starting point is 02:22:38 if there was any proof of that, they would have put it out everywhere. Yeah. If they had found something, it would have been everywhere. Well, it's interesting now too, because almost the race narrative is starting to, it's starting to evaporate over time because, and I think in some communities, obviously in the South, there's a ton of that, you know, there's historical like biases and like black people didn't have opportunities or money. They had to do what they could to survive. Yes. You know, and then you have cops who were predominantly white, probably, and they, they were policing crimes and crime is a lot of times things you have to use to survive, you know, certainly like at times in the past, you know, but it's interesting that,

Starting point is 02:23:18 shoot, what are we talking about? What did you say? Racism. Yeah. So it's interesting that, yeah, because now it's like police forces are getting pretty diverse. Super diverse. Right. And so I've almost wondered, would it be better to have a policeman of that ethnicity show up? Absolutely. You know, and they're all starting to go towards that. Yeah. They are. My police department is, when I started, predominantly white, when I left, it's getting predominantly Hispanic. And I think that's smart. I think it's actually smart. Does it make it a little harder for the guy that's white that wants to get a job? You know, why is this going to have to find a different community? I guess, you know, but yeah, it's definitely going that direction.

Starting point is 02:23:56 And it's definitely. Yeah, it's almost like they should have it. It's like, okay, we have, you know, two white suspects and two black suspects. Let's send a black police officer and a white police officer, you know? If you, unfortunately, in police work, you don't have that time to go, I guess a dispatcher could. Right. They would know based on what they have out there of who to send to what. But again, your policing specific areas, it would be harder than you think. Right. And it's crazy that we're having to even think about that kind of stuff, right? But it's like, you get so many like civil lawsuits and so many, it's just like, we've just taxed ourselves at the fucking guilt. You know, it's like we've.

Starting point is 02:24:32 I don't even think that would, from my experience, that's not even a cure-all. Well, yeah, we will. And I think it's a good move, but it's not a cure-all because I've seen, I've been at scenes where a guy I was with was a black officer and I've seen people attack him just like they were attacking me. You know what I mean? Because it wasn't really about, they hated that guy because of the uniform. I mean, that guy that with my name tag B white, he didn't know who I was. He, the way he was attacking me and all that, it was my uniform. And the fact on top of it that I was white, but I see him do the same thing. It's just, they don't like the police. They just don't like the police. There's just certain people that don't

Starting point is 02:25:09 like the police. Yeah. And I think it's interesting too, because it's like some cultures, like black culture never really had a, like America was always kind of a white culture country, probably, you know? I mean, there was diversity for sure. But I think like the people that ran the country were probably predominantly white, probably. Probably. So then I think a lot of society kind of has a white ring to it. So I think only now where you're seeing a lot more society, getting really pretty diverse, you know? So I think you're starting to see what these other cultures, what they even like to have in society or what they like their societies to be like. And so I think you're seeing like a merging of that. Like some societies,

Starting point is 02:25:53 they might not like to have any rules or any policing. They think that. They think that. Right. Oh yeah, they think that. They think that. But if you took the police out of some certain communities, communities that have more problems, if you completely took the police out of it and they knew the police, they would implode. There would be no community. Wow. It would be no community because criminals are going to be criminals, you know? People are going to feed on the weak knowing that there's nothing there to stop them. They're going to get theirs at any extent. The policing is completely totally necessary. How we do it is just going to continue to evolve. But right now, it's good. There's a good basis in place. What's

Starting point is 02:26:41 happening to them is totally unfair. But we just got to get through this and good will come of this. Amen. It's unfortunate, but good will come of this. Good came of Rodney King. Great things came with the Rodney King incident. It really, I saw it. I lived it. I watched the change. Oh, absolutely. When I first started, there was a lot of stuff that went on that slowly, I watched it get, you know, when you're new, you just kind of stand back. I watched it slowly get eliminated, slowly get better. Things slowly improve on the way they handle stuff. It's definitely getting better. And it's going to get better. I just hope they continue to be fair because there's a lot of good dudes that are just doing the job. Oh, yeah. I think, look, I'm grateful for them,

Starting point is 02:27:21 man. I'm really grateful for them. Yeah, they deal with a lot of stuff, you know? Yeah. Not everybody gets to, not everybody sees this stuff, you know? Not everybody sees some blow their head off. You know what I mean? Try that once. See how that changes your life. I can't even imagine it. Really, take one person and watch one time, watch someone in front of them blow their head off and then see how it changes. Do an experiment. Follow that guy around. See how that changes your life. Now take that guy, that same guy, and do it for 20 years every single day, you know? What do you expect? Yeah, I can't, I lose it if somebody has left like a big thing, a piece of chunk of hair. Like if they had a bunch of hair in the drain, I would like, yeah, I couldn't even, that makes me

Starting point is 02:28:06 nervous. And probably the thought about it going back, give the example of that. I watched the guy put a double barrel shotgun in his mouth when his mom was standing right beside him and blow his head off. Yeah, standing in the doorway. Remember back in the day in the older houses in Whittier, they had those screen doors, you know, the decorative stuff on the front. It was a screen door, the mom came running out screaming, hey, my son, my son, he's suicidal. And she kind of got behind me by the car and I looked over at the house and the door was open, the screen door was there and the guy walked right up to the screen door. He had one of those old school double barrel shotguns, stuck it in his mouth and pulled the trigger. His, his head expanded like a cartoon, the gasses

Starting point is 02:28:44 expanded his head. It was, I can't, I can't do justice in trying to get you to understand what it looked like. Mom freaking out, just the dynamics of that scenario, that's right there. Then on top of it, I had to go inside the house and I'm pushing the screen door to get this guy because he, he basically lost Vegas, hotel explosion, fall right in front of the door. So I'm trying to push him out of the way and it didn't even dawn on me as I'm pushing in. His brain matter was on the, seeing it fell into the back of my shirt. Yeah. Which to this day, I can feel it. You know what I mean? And now this is, this is one small scenario. Imagine that happening to you one time, how that would change the course of your life. I know it sounds dramatic, but don't you think it

Starting point is 02:29:27 would? Yeah. Don't you think it would look at a lot of stuff different? Don't you think you would feel a lot different? So yeah, I don't know if I would keep being able to feel after a certain point. Right? Yeah. And then have to keep it in that, I had to keep that thing, I had to keep it in my shirt for like four hours. Dude, we tried to wash it out and all that, but came down to take it off my shirt and vest and everything. Sorry, I was just going to ask a question. You mentioned all these violent situations, but you were a homicide detective. Was that fulfilling? Is it fulfilling like helping find a person? No, that was my least favorite. That was absolutely my least favorite assignment. What was homicide detective? Yes. Yes. It's the one I worked

Starting point is 02:30:06 towards my whole career. And then once I got into it, it was just, there was no real satisfaction. There was satisfaction in catching the person that did it, but it was overshadowed by what the act left everyone around it in. Again, I had domestic violence. I had a domestic violence situation that I can say was gratifying and catching who did it and such, but a lot of the gang ones just didn't matter. It just didn't matter. You would catch the guy and someone else would do it or he'd get out and do it again. And there was so much sadness and sorrow surrounding it because the court cases were long and drawn out. You were sitting with the family for sometimes years getting through these processes and you were the last attachment that they had to these

Starting point is 02:30:56 people. So they would become really attached to you. They would bring me Christmas presents. Even after the case was done, I would politely tell them, I can't accept this for a lot of reasons, but the primary one is, is I can't have this relationship. I can't have this emotional tie to you because I got a million more of these. And if I start doing that, I'm done. This has to be, you have to be your groceries that I bagged and you got to take that bag of groceries and you got to get out of here because I got to get on to the next one. And it's just, it's, it's too much mentally to have an emotional tie with you whatsoever. So homicide was a lot of that. And it was all, I mean, it has to be heartbreaking. Heartbreaking.

Starting point is 02:31:37 Because it's heartbreaking to them too. It's like, even when it was a gang member, even it was a gang member that was killed, that was a brutal murderer himself. He had a mom and I was always in contact with that mom, you know what I mean? And it just, it would just, it was almost impossible to deal with. And I'm, I'm a little, I admit it man, going into it, I'm a little too sensitive to have probably done this job, but it was just draining man. There's no good scenario in homicide. And then if you don't catch the guys that did it, it weighs, it weighs on you, it weighs on you that you couldn't, you couldn't do it. You know, you couldn't figure it out. You failed and this guy's going to do it again. So there's almost a

Starting point is 02:32:13 level of responsibility that is, homicide was a different beast. I, I, no bueno man, no good, you know, there, I got a lot of good things out of other assignments. Do you think there's a lot of serial killers out there still? Serial killers, depends on your definition of a serial killer. Seems hard to do now. Well, if your definition of a serial killer is someone that kills a lot of people, yeah. Yeah, there is. There's gang members that, there's gang members out there that have killed five, six, seven people and they're going to kill more people. But the world doesn't look at that

Starting point is 02:32:44 guy as a serial killer. It doesn't fit the definition or if you go to a training class, they're not teaching you that this guy is a serial killer. You know what I mean? The quintessential serial killer is so uncommon. So, so, so uncommon. It's just nobody's breaking into home, strangers homes and, you know, doing the night stalker shit. Is there a hypothesis that when you get into that job that that'll be what it's like and stuff? Is there that kind of like? Kind of, kind of, you know, and it's like anything when you look, I mean, I, in an industry like this, I imagine you look at someone that's doing something else and going

Starting point is 02:33:22 like, oh, that's where I want to be. That's where I want to be. That's where I want to be, because that's where it's happening. And then you get there and you go, fuck, this ain't that great, you know? I want to, so I want to be there. I want to be there. And no matter what, you get there and you go like, at least my experience is it's not what I thought it was. It was actually better back there. I want to go back there because that was a lot better. This, this, but homicide, I mean, look at the infatuation with cops. Look at my TV shows and movies. That's insane. Everything. Everything.

Starting point is 02:33:46 Killing. It's like, yeah, I think I've seen every episode of true crime. The world's infatuated with it. And what you're seeing is that you're seeing that fake, not fake, you're seeing that surface aspect of it. You're not seeing the stuff that we've been talking about, you know, what's behind all that, but you're seeing that. So even going into it, you go like, oh, look at that dude. That dude's been around. He's, the reality of it is he's so fucked up and callous that he's totally quiet and cool. You know, I want to be that guy, man. I want to do that shit. Got a suit on looking good. People always go, hey, you work homicide. You work homicide. You're going to be a homicide detective. And it's just, again, it goes back

Starting point is 02:34:24 to that thing as you just don't get it. You know what I mean? Homicide is where you want to get, but when you get there, just, my experience was I just wanted to get the fuck out. I just, so you graduated finally. You're out. I'm out. I'm retired. They got to pay me for the rest of my life. Amen, brother. You deserve it. I hope so. I think so. You know, it's, it's, I can't even, it's not a tremendous amount of money, but it's a, it's a good chunk that most people don't have. And what else do you want to do after you start to develop different thoughts or things that you, I'm working. I work for a company, a big company that owns lots of businesses. And I do asset protection for them, you know, just real surface investigations of money crimes

Starting point is 02:35:07 and, you know, basic, simple, almost stupid, but it's dumb. What I do, I admit it, but they pay me well. And sometimes I get a little antsy and go, God, my life, look at my life now. My life is so boring and this sucks. And I got to do something else, but I got a wife I love. I got a kid I adore and, you know, I got fam. I just, this, this is good. I'll ride this out. Did your child want to be an officer? Fuck no. We made that clear day one. My kid was little. We made that very clear with one sentence. You will fucking never be a cop. So don't even think about it. Don't dream about it. Don't anything. It will never fucking happen. What, what about a fireman? I'm like, yeah, hell yeah. I'll do anything to get him as a fireman.

Starting point is 02:35:50 Yeah, dude. Let's give him some Franks. Right. With the understanding that there's going to be trauma, but police work, man. There's just, if I could go back in time, as much as my experience, there's where there was joy that I hold onto and go, God, that was, that was awesome. I'm so glad I did. That was exciting. My life is this. And people want to hear, it's crazy to think people want to hear about it. You got me sitting here talking about what I did. And it is a crazy thought to go, people actually are interested because they don't understand. And when they hear it, they go, whoa, that's kind of, that's fucking really crazy. That's crazy to me because that's just what I did. You know what I mean? So there's aspects I would say, oh, it would be sad if I

Starting point is 02:36:28 never did that. But if I could go back in time, I would totally, totally, totally do something different. Wow. But I got here by luck. I never planned on being a cop. Like I said, my growing up was different. You were a criminal. Not a criminal. No, but I was, I was doing bad things, but I was a deviant. I was insecure and doing bad things, man. You know what I mean? It's fun. Yeah. You know, but my, how I became a cop, and this is back in the day is I had nothing going. I had no plans, man. You know, I was doing nothing. I, there was just no future. So I started coaching my little brother's Pop Warner team with my dad. And the guy that was coaching with me was a instructor in the police academy. And literally one day during the game, he's go, what are you,

Starting point is 02:37:08 what are you doing now, man? I'm, I got nothing going on. He goes, I'll get you to the fucking police academy a couple of weeks if you want. And I went, all right, that sounds cool, man. Let's do it. And that's, that's how it happened. Wow. It's fucking how it happened. I woke up the next day and I was pulling out on the street with a gun and a police car going like, these guys got no fucking idea. You know what I mean? They got no idea, but it, it served me well. It served, my background served me well. I was able to do that job, I think better than most, strictly based on experience and compassion, you know, of understanding the dynamic of taking away someone's freedom is a big fucking deal. And we need to avoid that at all costs. We need to avoid that at all

Starting point is 02:37:48 costs than getting them in the system and, and getting this record and all the things that come with it. I knew the magnitude of it. I didn't take it lightly ever even, you know, I used to get 17, 18 year old girls for DUIs and it was gut wrenching to me. You know, it was gut wrenching me. It boys, anybody was just gut wrenching of taking them and putting them into jail cell and realizing this is going to change the course of your life forever. You know, hopefully it'll be positive, but this is, they would be crying and it was just traumatic. It was just traumatic. Most cops, you know, let's go get the fucking the cell and let's get past this and you were drunk and I saved lives and I got to get out there and I got to find some real crime. You know what I

Starting point is 02:38:30 mean? I mean, I can remember sitting and thinking like talking to them in this cell and just going like, it's going to be okay. Right. It's going to be okay. I know you hate me right now, but it's, it's going to be okay. And one thing I do know, I hope is you're never going to be here again. Right. And you didn't kill nobody. You know what I mean? So those kind of aspects for me, I've really looked back at and go like, I was meant to be there as much as I didn't deserve maybe to be there and the way it just happened to me to be there. We'll be able to share this story today too with us too, you know, because yeah, like I feel too much. I've always been too much of a feeler, you know, and so I think you need people that have a little extra feeling

Starting point is 02:39:08 sometimes to get out of instances sometimes and share, you know, share some of the feeling side of it. And I'll be especially your job. I'll be judged. I'll be judged based on this from people in the industry. People in the industry will absolutely judge me based on this. This is literally, believe it or not, this is the absolute first fucking time I have ever publicly said anything about my childhood and being arrested and being in custody. I worked with guys who are my friends who I care deeply about and I'd never made mention of it and so much time went on. I just thought it's irrelevant and there's no reason to bring it up and I just never did. I just buried it. This is the absolute first fucking time I've ever made that and it'll be interesting. I don't

Starting point is 02:39:46 know who's going to see it or what. It'll be interesting to see what I'm an old guy now, you know, it's be interesting to see if people actually come back at me and go, you motherfucker, or whatever it is that reaction I gave. Fucking criminal. But I do hope that people do listen to it and go like, hey, there's some to it. It's fascinating, man. And it's fascinating, you know, we had a Border Patrol security guy on one time and which is just a public service job, I guess, you know, in a way or something in the same world a little bit. But it was interesting to hear about the border and the things that go on there and the people that are getting run back and forth across there and how cartels own different pieces of land there. So if you even want to

Starting point is 02:40:22 transport someone across a piece of land, you have to pay that cartel even to like coyote somebody across the land and how a lot of the people coming in, some of them aren't even Mexican and a lot of them are fucking, you know, Middle Eastern and they're fucking a lot of pedophile, a lot of creatures. Shit was like, Jesus Christ. There's a lot of aspects to that that you don't even think of that we dealt with on a daily basis. A lot of people that come in are obviously coming here because they want a better life. Totally down for that. You know, there's just a process. We just need the process. Just do it the legal process. Come, everybody come, but let's just go through this process because we need that process because you wouldn't believe how many people come

Starting point is 02:40:59 here and they don't have the means or they just like, they don't have car insurance. They don't, they're all these different things that they're just bypassing where it's causing such turmoil in our world and our system. You know what I mean? Those are the problems. Well, all of that, it's all like, how long are we going to strain the walls of our system, you know? And we already don't even, you know, and then they still expect people to put a president on television and be like, America, you know, it's like, don't sell me this fucking thing if you're not, if it's not a real product. Right. Yeah. And that's what's really kind of happened. I think it's, that's a lot of kind of what's, you know, one of the issues. They bag it up into one thing.

Starting point is 02:41:40 You know, if you're against it, they say, well, you're racist. I'm not a racist at all. I couldn't give a shit. The only reason that I even think about it is because you keep talking about it, but I just want them to come here. I want them here. Let's make sure they have a path to get here. Oh, yeah. But let's just, just follow the rules to get here. That's it. We have to have roll call. You have to have like, if you don't know inventory, any business that doesn't have good inventory, we'll go out of business. If you don't have no what's on the shelves or no what's here or what's there, it's going to go out of business, man. And that's where the fucking starts to get scary. Because you have other people that are just like, well, I was born here. I'm just trying to play by

Starting point is 02:42:12 whatever rules I was born into. Maybe they were more fortunate than some other places I don't know. In some ways they probably weren't some ways they probably weren't. But, but I'm just trying to play by the fucking rules. And everybody's got to play by the rules. And when our government isn't even playing by the rules anymore, then it's like, well, then it makes it tough to think that someone just an everyday man is getting back, okay, I'm going to keep playing by them. And I think that makes you guys's job even tougher. It's like, now you're having to almost do a government's job. Well, we are police departments are the government. Right. But they're just that wing that it's got to take care of all that stuff. Right. And you shouldn't be like the, you're the most accessible part

Starting point is 02:42:54 of the government too for people. And that's fucking kind of scary. Because you have people, if they don't like the government or they think this or they think that, then you're the person that they can really reach to take it out on. You know, I don't know. I'm just kind of rambling. Not me, not anymore. You're free, man. What were so many news topics we wanted to hit before we get this man out of here? Not specifically news, but I did want to hear about when you were on the show cops. Oh yeah, good call. Oh yeah. Okay. So so cops, super interesting. They used to watch that as a family. God. Yeah, I used to watch it too. Crazy. I met Roseanne Barr last night. How was that? The awesomest time. Really? Dude, I was, how did that get? Why did you bring up

Starting point is 02:43:35 Roseanne Barr? I just, I don't know. I thought about it and I was so excited and I meant to tell you a little while ago to give her, see her show growing up. Oh, absolutely. Oh, dude, I'm on stage at the comedy store, right? And I hear this laugh in the back. And only one of the time it happened to me was Damon Wayans. I heard his laugh and I grew up watching his laugh. And I heard her laugh and I, and it fucking just flipped my head. I didn't know that she was back there. And I was like, Oh my God, that Roseanne Barr is in the room tonight in the crowd. You know, there's probably 200 people in there or something sold out and she's nice. She was howling laughing. So then I'm like, I got, I want to do the best I can. Like for all the years that she made me

Starting point is 02:44:18 laugh or made me feel or made me feel like I, you know, mattered in the fucking universe with that poor family that they, that they worked on. I wanted to just have that one moment to like give as much back of that as I could. And I crushed. And then I got to meet her after. And anyway, I was just so freaking excited. And some girl came up and was like, Oh, I want you to tell and I even said to that girl, you are a menace right now. Okay. I've worked too hard to get to meet Roseanne, right? And you are fucking ruining it. And she just kept having Roseanne finally was like, you are ruining it. Oh, it was so good. That's funny that Roseanne Barr did that for you. Anyway, yeah, she did. I mean, look, there was definitely some other women did it too. But she,

Starting point is 02:45:07 yeah, yeah, she had the impact. And I just love her comedy and they tried to cancel her. And it just fucked them was like, fuck them. What did they try to cancel her for? They canceled her for some. She had a tweet that the Twitter said was racist. And she referenced like, I don't even remember what it was, but it wasn't racist. It was just like a general term. And they, you know, you know, Twitter was hopefully it'll get better. But anyway, let's, yeah, the cops, let's hear. So cops, the way cops operates is, is that there's, there's, there's a few film crews. There's a sound guy and there's a camera guy. And I think I don't remember how many men, but it was very few, like four or five of these teams. And these guys were

Starting point is 02:45:44 so interesting. They essentially go out and by the time they came to our police department, it had really changed because of civil law, where you weren't able just to film shit and throw it on TV. You had to get waivers from everyone that was involved. And that involved criminals signing off saying, yeah, you can use that shit, which is fucking so stupid. If you signed off on that shit, you're the dumbest guy on the face of the earth because it's all now evidence that could be used against you in court. So it was really tough to get those guys to sign off. But believe it or not, you know, unfortunately, when it comes to crime, you're not dealing with a lot of scholars. So you would get a lot of signatures, but by then it was a little tougher. So what they

Starting point is 02:46:21 would do is, is they would ride with you, they would pick an officer and they, they, I was fortunate enough to be picked and they would ride with you for two months, every single shift. Yeah. And that time I was working 312s, which is three shifts, 12, three 12 hour shifts, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, which was the busiest. That's why at graveyard. So that's why they wanted to ride with me. So you would go out with these guys and it, and the, man, it was like, it was like, it was like performance anxiety. You know what I mean? It's like, I felt this 20s. Yeah, right? I just felt this need to perform, man, you know, and, and, and it's, it's harrowing. Police work is, some days there's just nothing going on. You know, you gotta,

Starting point is 02:47:03 you gotta self generate whether it be tickets and hope you can come up with stuff. So I always felt this pressure to go out, but speaking with these guys and their experiences, like the sound guy had been shot in the leg. The other guy, something that happened, their stories were awesome because they had been all over. They were telling me stories, dude. I was going like, fuck, that is so awesome, dude. I can't even believe you experienced all this shit that you've experienced. I mean, these guys probably walked away from that show and have mental problems themselves. Yeah. Because they, they, they essentially were cops all the time on patrol. Well, imagine you're a sound guy and you're like, oh, it sounds like somebody got shot

Starting point is 02:47:43 and then it's fucking you. Whatever, you know, I mean, they had all these guys had great stories. So essentially they would ride with you the whole time. And the issue became as you felt so much pressure to get material. Oh yeah. That when they rode with me, they rode with two different officers, me and another guy. And I literally didn't make the show. I literally didn't make the show. I didn't, well, I, and the one time I did, the guy wouldn't sign off and they couldn't make the cuts to make it relevant. So I, they, I literally didn't make, but I actually became really good friends with these guys because we'd spent so much time and talking that I, I was talking to them. I don't now, but I was talking to them for quite a bit. Kong, where you at and what's going on?

Starting point is 02:48:20 And wow. But the way that they do cops is when, when you watch it, it looks like it's, it's, it's progressive. It looks like this is happening. You know what I mean? And it never registers with you and like they go, they're in the car and they get the radio call and it's like, ah, you know, 372 respond to non breather. Yeah, whatever it is. And you see the cop go, okay. And then all of a sudden he's driving and then it cuts away and you see the car making a right hand turn on to a street and never really registers with the go, well, how the fuck did they know he was going there to be on that thing? You know what I mean? I'm a guy that has no idea of the industry and editing all that. So it wasn't until they rode with me and I watched the cops

Starting point is 02:48:58 and I went, well, how the fuck are they getting all these angles and shit? So what ends up happening as find out is they would, we would have the situation. They would get out and they would, they would be in it. I mean, you would have to literally tell these guys, look at dude, you need to step the fuck back. You know, you need to get behind that car right now. I get it, but I need you to do that. So they were always up on you and they'd be filming and get everything they can. And then they would go back and go, hey, look, I think this is something we can use. So this is what I need you to do. I need you to drop my camera guy off on that corner and I want you to go back to this street and then I want you to fake like you're responding to the

Starting point is 02:49:33 radio. I'm going to be in it filming you, you know, with the other camera. So there's acting involved. You know what I mean? And I was a young kid and I just couldn't do it, dude. I'm just not an actor, you know what I mean? So they would like be filming. So all those guys you see doing it, that's all acting up until the actual scenario. Wow. But you never really, never really crossed my mind. No, yeah. In my mind, I'm just saying, oh, that makes sense. They have footage everywhere and they're just getting all that, you know, that's like, they're just dialed in and getting everything. That's, you don't even think about now. And they would have told me, okay, now I want you to come and open that door. You know what I mean? And then you go back and watch an episode

Starting point is 02:50:07 and go, okay, now this shit makes sense. Why didn't that ever register with me? This is all bullshit. You know what I mean? Except for the actual scenarios themselves. Yeah. You know, they would just film it raw and they would do their editing magic and make an episode, but it takes, it takes two months every single night with two different teams for a half hour episode. And they said they struggle sometimes to get that. Damn. Yeah. I've struggled to get it, brother. Right? Yeah. It's weird that we're watching crime. It's weird that we watch crime, that we devour it like that. What does it do to our psyche when we just see crime, when we see murder disappearing? You know, what does it do to us over time? I've, that's, I couldn't even answer

Starting point is 02:50:57 that question. I always think how, I always think, oh, I wonder, how did I think about this kind of shit before I was exposed to all this shit? Because I don't think the same way you do. You know what I mean? You don't think the same way I do. Because I have a different perspective of it'd be like me having an opinion and the way I think about what I just explained, movies, videos, editing, you know, I don't, I don't understand how it works. I don't know what's going on. I don't know what it all pertains. Same deal with police work. I don't remember how I thought before, which is how you would think about it in its entirety, you know, cops, what they do, what's going on, all that kind of shit, because I did it for 20 years. So

Starting point is 02:51:33 I watch people when they watch these shows and most of the shows I go, fuck, this is so stupid. I can't even watch this dude because the world thinks this is what it is. And this is so far from what it is. This is just entertainment. But I don't know what the fascination with it, because I see it and I just go, I'll watch it. And in my mind, there'll be a scene where I've seen cop movies where like these guys with AK-47s in the street to shoot, which is totally unrealistic, but anything, like a shooting or anything. And for me, it just makes me feel bad. You know what I mean? For me, it's just nine times out of 10. It'll make me think of something that's inside my brain that I don't even remember and know that it's there anymore,

Starting point is 02:52:12 that all of a sudden, like the example we said earlier, I'll see a kid in a red jacket. And all of a sudden, I'll literally watch that kid and it just didn't give a fucking cry. Because that was the kid that ran into traffic. Yeah, I'll watch that kid die again. And I'll always go like, what the fuck, you know, why the fuck am I thinking about that? And when is that finally going to be gone? And then that's so crazy. And that's all shit I'm doing to myself in my mind. I'm not talking about it. I don't talk to my wife about it, but that's my experience. That happens to me a lot. You know, I mean, it happens to me a lot, little triggers, what they call them, you know, and I'll

Starting point is 02:52:41 and I'll think, and I won't, it's never a good time to go. You know what I just thought of, honey? I just thought of the first time I watched this fucking guy that because I saw a kid, you just kind of keep it to yourself because it's just the way that it is. So when the rest of the world watches that shit, I don't know, dude. I don't know what the fascination is. The same idea, I guess, is why did you want me to come in here and talk today? Because I guess people want to know, they want to know, they want to know, they want to see, they want to understand. The problem with TV is that's a lick, that's a very watered down version of reality. Right. And it's also a version that they have mastered the, like,

Starting point is 02:53:21 how to have the algorithm of and make it as cheap to shoot as efficient as possible, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And a lot of the people, the worst part is, I think a lot of cop, maybe, you know, 50 years ago, cop shows or detective shows, how much somebody who involved in the production may have had a family member that was an officer. Now it's like, I feel like some of these people making stuff are so far removed from any of the reality of it that they don't even have a human sense of it. And so, you know, absolutely. And if you watch as a cop, if you watch a show and you'll see it and you go, dude, someone in law enforcement had something to do with this. You can tell. You can tell. Someone that knows a cop or is a cop or has been a pastor,

Starting point is 02:54:00 they got a consultant or someone, someone told them that because no one else would know that. What about this, man? I'd say it's a quiet night out there. You ever, wait a bus off and get you a 20-minute nap in somewhere? Oh, hell yeah. Fuck yeah. Yeah, hell yeah. They had spots, man, especially on graveyards, three-twelves. After four o'clock, shit's silent. Radio's silent. We would, yeah. That's it, man. We would get together because you want to be safe and sleep in a group. Sleep in a group, you know, and... Like wolves or something. Pretty much. And one guy was...

Starting point is 02:54:30 Or lions. You know, lions sleep in a group. Yeah. Everybody had, there was always one guy that had to stay up. Oh. You know what I mean? That guy nine times that 10 would fucking fall asleep anyways, you know what I mean? I love that guy. Yeah, but that happens every night in cities, you know? I mean, you just have to, you know? You just got to do it in a responsible way. And we would have, a couple of times we would

Starting point is 02:54:49 go behind this church and it was a parking lot that was really secluded with the walls perfect, you know? We'd have like six cars back there. Everybody's sleeping. Some of the guys would even take off their belts, you know, to get more comfortable because it was, yeah. Laying, sprawled across, bring blankets to lay over the middle and... But we actually would get woken up once we were all by the priest. He would come in the morning and see us all there and knock on our window. And it became a thing, you know? We're all, thank you so much. And he was cool about it. He never told on us and you know, it just became our, it was really safe because we had a priest.

Starting point is 02:55:18 Oh yeah, dude. God was like, yeah, he's watching over us. God's literally watching over you. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Did, oh, did they have, you know, a lot of people sending people sending videos, a lot of like drug induced homosexuality, like men that will do drugs and then start making out. You got to see a lot of that out there. And weir, we had a pretty prominent gay community. And...

Starting point is 02:55:44 But anybody, being gay is just kind of like, that's normal. That's like a regular, some people are gay, some people are straight, some people are in the middle. I'm talking about men that get geeked up on pills or powder or uppers. Poppers and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, methamphetamines really big in the gay community. So will meth lead people to be in gay, you think? Uh, no, you could give me about a pound of meth and I don't think I'd ever be gay. I don't think it ever leads up to being gay, but it definitely, it definitely, I think it enhanced the situations, you know? We had a part, yeah, right?

Starting point is 02:56:14 It made it... That's all it takes. That was a little enhancement. Get that video, Zach. Do we have it? I'm looking forward to it. Okay, cool. Thanks. Yeah, we had a park where they would, where the gay community would get together and kind of meet each other. And it was in the bathroom, there was this whole process that they, they, they would, they would participate in to meet one another and it was, you would stand at the urinal in the public bathroom and if you were standing there long

Starting point is 02:56:37 enough and did the right looks and that the other guys would know and it was, hey, how are you? And sometimes a little further. So we would have guys work at that time just because the people didn't like it in the park and it became real prevalent in one park, right? I mean, and, and sometimes the sexual activity was... Little rampant. Little much. Being performed in a public park. So they wanted to go away. So we'd have the guys under cover that would go in and stand there and think, we actually had an officer that was standing there

Starting point is 02:57:03 and he made himself known as a police officer because it became a parent and the guy grabs his, his junk and got a death grip on it because he was scared, you know? And, and yeah, the situation was hilarious because he wouldn't let go and we all had to come in and we're screaming at this guy, let him go, let him go. And the guy's just holding on to his wiener. Cops, yeah. Just a guy standing there with a death grip on his thing. And he doesn't even want to get in a fight or nothing because there ain't a lot of holding that on, you know? So, right?

Starting point is 02:57:29 Yeah. All it takes is one real method to rip hard. I imagine. Yeah. That's something I don't want to discover. Did, um, but do, um, did, uh, did you, some guys have to get stationed in the bathroom sometimes? We, that's what we would do. We would go in the bathroom and, and put ourselves in the situation too. Because it was a whole process and drugs were very prevalent. You know, hey, can I give you some of this and that? Okay, let's see what this is. What's happening. We're seeing people sending in this type of stuff here and these two gentlemen, you can, you,

Starting point is 02:58:04 and how they're just buddies, you know, but I think of the drug that at a certain point gets you pretty close there, you know, like, are we, yeah. It's like, oh, that's just almost like a goodbye. It doesn't really see that to me. It doesn't seem like really like homoerotic behavior. That just seemed like two fellas is like, I'm fucked up. Are you going to miss you? Oh, I think it looks like the one guy is maybe not totally into it. And maybe he's just trying to get a free slurpee or something. But this is a lot of what's been going on these days and people have been sending in a

Starting point is 02:58:33 lot of videos like this. Yeah. We actually, um, I, when I was in homicide, I actually went to a training course where they taught about, um, in the community, in the gay community, apparently based on the training I, I received, there's something called, it was called, they called it homosexual overkill. And when there's murders involved in the gay community, it's usually really, really brutal, really passionate, really over the top, you know, like chopping each other, chopping up. And, and I think the training was just to make you aware when you came to a murder, if you saw something that was completely over the top, as far as the way it went down, that it was.

Starting point is 02:59:13 There could be that. It could be an avenue to start looking at, you know, maybe this is a, maybe a gay community thing where we can get some information from or something. Like Jeffrey Dahmer, really? Essentially, yeah. I mean, I remember going to the training and it was, it was very graphic. Wow. Whether that's true in its entirety or not, I don't know. Well, gay guys, I think do everything new extreme kind of, so I don't think I'd be shocked if they're like, you know, Julie and a guy up or something if he's being, you know, a bad guy.

Starting point is 02:59:38 Yeah. Um, I think we covered a lot of stuff. What do you think there's that? Yeah, we pretty much covered everything in the run of show. A lot of stories. Brad, we look, look, man, I think we'd love to even have you back sometime. We'll have you back when there's a crime or something or if there's something neat that we can talk about. I've just really enjoyed learning about what, uh, some of your experience has been like, you know, and getting a little bit more of an emotional aspect of, of what an officer goes through and could potentially go through every day.

Starting point is 03:00:04 That's crazy. When I think about a 21 year old guy that's rolling out of a parking lot in a, in a vehicle and like. In a different time. I mean, a good time when cops were looked at a little different. I used to post up at three o'clock in the morning at the nightclubs getting out, you know, because there was actually an appeal to being a police officer. So, you know, I started at a good time and I ended in a bad time for being a cop, you know, but. Do you think we can get to a better time again or do you think we,

Starting point is 03:00:31 you're curious to see how we're going to get there? Yeah, I don't know. We got to, we have to, it's got to get better. It can't, it can't get any worse or we're going to be in real trouble. But I really appreciate you having me in here and having the venue to, you know, say some, tell you some stuff about what it really is like. And I hope it's been beneficial. It's been awesome, man. It's been fascinating. Brad White, thank you so much for your time, man.

Starting point is 03:00:53 Absolutely. Thank you. You bet. Happy holidays. You too.

This Past Weekend - E421 Retired Police Officer

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