This Past Weekend - E487 Dax Shepard

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Starting point is 00:00:37 March 13th at 10 a.m. local time with pre-sale code RATKING. General On Sale starts Friday, March 15th at 10 a.m. local time. We thank you so much for the support. We also have tickets remaining in Atlanta, Georgia and St. Louis, Missouri. Those shows are in April. Get all your tickets through theovon.com slash tour. Today's guest is an actor, comedian, podcaster. You may know him from a lot of his films or you may know him from his armchair expert podcast. This is my first time meeting him today and I'm excited about it.

Starting point is 00:01:21 I'm looking forward to getting to know him Today's guest is mr. Dex shepherd I'm always amazed at those people that they find that live in, like they find them and the kids have been living in like a basement or- An Ohio basement. It's generally an Ohio basement. basement yeah I guess it's kind of like an Ohio pastime I want to say it is a bit well it says on the license plate Ohio Buckeye State slash basement captives state yeah what if in years from now sincerely I've seen 12 of those stories over the years on the news and it's 100% of them have been in Ohio Yeah, middle of Ohio. Oh, definitely. It's like a let's they should do like always like hey show your basement, you know Yeah, I think there should be like mandatory basement sweeps in Ohio Like you got taxes you got the census fuck it task the census people with like just need to know how many folks are here

Starting point is 00:02:44 We're gonna have to peek in the basement. Hey, I want those cellar doors open now, buddy. Get those wide open so we can just sniff around a little bit. Nothing personal, just 12% of you have people in the basement. And so, it'd be irresponsible for us to not take a little gander down there. I wonder if the world devolves so much that like things like that like the basement like basement people becomes like a mascot for like the city like the city football team

Starting point is 00:03:17 or something like the Cleveland basement people. Does Louisiana have something that they over index in like when you're watching shows and they're like in you're like, yeah, that's because Michigan has I'm from Michigan. I want to say 40% of date lines I watch where the woman is married the husband. Yeah, that's gonna be Michigan. Yeah. Yeah. where the woman is married, the husband. Yeah. That's gonna be Michigan. Yeah. Yeah. And then also if some militia members are going to try to capture

Starting point is 00:03:49 somebody, that's generally going to be, in fact, not to bring it down, but the Oklahoma city bombing was planned at the Amaco truck stop, like six miles from my house. Oh, wow. It's amazing, man. Yeah. And that was in Michigan. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:04 Yeah. Right off of us 23. And it was called the Oasis truck stop. And, wow, it's amazing, man. Yeah. And that was in Michigan. Yeah, yeah, right off of US 23. It was called the Oasis Truck Stop. And how they get it to Oklahoma City today, people didn't bid on it, right? That's crazy. Timothy McVeigh, was that his name? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:16 He just was regrouping in Michigan. It's a great place to brush up on your militia skills. I think he was in there with some of his militia guys. And then they needed a place to play on, maybe some big tables to lay out stuff. And the Oasis gas station was turnkey for them. But I'm watching the news and I'm like, I'm a kid, you know, Ish.

Starting point is 00:04:35 And I'm like, Oasis gas station? We're like, A, I'm afraid to go in as a kid because there's men sleeping in their semis. I like when I run in for a candy bar, there's like a parking lot full of men. Oh, it's a lot of those places. It's semis. I like when I run in for a candy bar, there's like a parking lot full of men. Oh, it's a lot of those places. It's a real, I like to call it like a molesters gauntlet kind of that you run through.

Starting point is 00:04:54 You're like, there's so many like pitfalls here. So many traps, you know, a lot of like those truckers will leave like the candy right in front of the truck. Like just sure a couple of dollar bills candy right in front of the truck. Like just sure a couple of dollar bills. A little baggy with just some remnants of some speed. Well, you know, I drive a bus. I have a, I have a tour bus. Oh, you do now?

Starting point is 00:05:17 Yeah. Not cause I tour. Right. Cause my family and I go out in it for a few weeks every summer. Oh yeah. And I go to the sand dunes a lot. So regardless, you go to the sand dunes a lot, so regardless. You go to the sand dunes you said?

Starting point is 00:05:26 Yeah. I'm just making sure what you said. Yeah, I've never been to the sand dunes, but. You know that, you know of them here in California? Glamis? Uh-uh. Oh my God. Yeah, it's such an incredibly weird and wonderful place.

Starting point is 00:05:38 You can't believe it's in California the whole time you're there. It's 400 square miles of sand dunes, 20 by 20, and the folks that are there are like the folks from the Oasis gas station that I grew up with. And you're like, wow, but half of them are from Arizona, because it's very close to Arizona, but it's on the Mexican border with the wall,

Starting point is 00:05:55 and it's enormous sand dunes. And so, oh, look at this. Oh, wow. You could potentially even see photos of me. Yeah, look at this. And so, like on New Year's Eve, there'll be 250th. It's the closest thing in real life to the original Road Warrior.

Starting point is 00:06:09 Oh, Road Warrior. Specifically Road Warrior. And Road Warrior was that movie? It was kind of like Mad Max a little bit. It was the second one. I think the first Mad Max was black and white and very Australian. And then Road Warrior was just,

Starting point is 00:06:20 you're in the desert with Mel. Yeah, I think. And the last of the V8 interceptors. Oh, thank you so much. I saw Mel Gibson. Colin. Thank you. Wow. I'm so bad with names. I try to work on them.

Starting point is 00:06:34 Really? You just did that like a sniper. I just did that to, you wanna make a phone call? That's all me. Yeah. Do you wanna move my truck or anything? Take it for a ride. Does he need it? This is a plunger for a bomb I put in the lock. Do you know what?

Starting point is 00:06:53 But not because breast. No, it's Nick or a straight neck of team. Oh, really? Yeah. No delivery device just straight neck of team. Are you in the neck of team? Yeah, I've been in it. I don't let me see. Are you into nicotine? Yeah, I've been into it. You wanna try a little bit? Let me see, I'll hold it for a second because I, yeah, I was doing nicotine for a long time and then I've had 14 days off and I'm on the, Oh, well then give me that back.

Starting point is 00:07:15 Yeah, well now I've had one day off. Oh, then take it. Well, let's leave it right here. Okay, well, it's TBD. This is just there. But one of my, another comedian on the tour boss had a Vape on him. Oh had a moment at night. It was just like I was falling apart I don't know. It was just sometimes if I'm up too late, then I'll do something to damage myself like of course

Starting point is 00:07:37 I'll like do a watch a poll do cue up some porn Or preferred website? Mm. You do, but you don't wanna promote it? I just don't know. It doesn't matter. It's not an important question. I mean, a lot of the websites are-

Starting point is 00:07:54 I don't do a lot of porn, but I'm increasingly wanting to. No. And I'm wondering if I'm on the right website. Yeah, I will look at it. Cause I think you strike me as a pro and I don't say that judgmentally But I feel like you've been to every corner of the internet. I've been through some yeah, I've been through some probably I don't want to call them wormholes, but sure. I've been through some time. Yeah

Starting point is 00:08:18 I want you to Jedi me just a tiny bit and be like save some time. This is where you want to be What happens to me? So I'd be up late and I'll be kind of fucking ants here, whatever. And I've probably been doing some vaping. And so then I'm like, all right, well, might as well watch a little bit of porno, porno. You know, yeah, just to fucking cap the night off. I'm a fucking king. Booked in there.

Starting point is 00:08:37 Yeah. Cause I do what I want to do. Yeah. So next thing you know, I'm cute up on there and I have this fear now that the, they, the porno sites are videoing you back. That's how they get people like down the line is like, they're like, oh, we see. Yes, for blackmail.

Starting point is 00:08:58 So it's like. Do you pep tape over your camera or anything? That would be smart. Oh my God. Here's what I'm doing, dude. I do something crazy. What do you do? I put the screen at like an angle where it can only kind of see the ceiling or whatever.

Starting point is 00:09:13 And then I kind of like. Oh my Lord. I'll like lean off and kind of masturbate at like an angle. Sure. Yeah, yeah. Sideways. Like I'm the guy that does, remember that picture they used to have on the on the school on the wall of the

Starting point is 00:09:26 staircases that interchanged or whatever. The M.C.S. Yes, M.C.S. Yeah, I'll take like a real M.C.S. or angle. Sure. Penis is off to your right. Just make sure I'm out of the way. Okay, but let's drill down into because I think I know exactly what you started with. It started with your too late or your up late. Yeah, I'm up late. Because so I so relate, which is I'm supposed to go to bed at a certain time. Or I know I feel the best if I go to bed at a certain time. Right. But then once I've crossed

Starting point is 00:09:56 that, now it's kind of like, Mom, I'm just fucking up. I'm fucking up. So I already feel bad. So let's go all the way. So let's get the vape off our buddy. Let's get that porno. Let's get our computer tilted at a weird angle. Yeah, let's rev up some porno. Yeah, let's fire it up.

Starting point is 00:10:15 Let's make some fuck. And I'll do sleepy time tea and vape. So I'm just living in this fucking. Speedbally zone. Yeah, this crazy like, hey, what's gonna happen with this guy? You know, he might stay up, he might watch a movie, he's crazy like hey, what's gonna happen with this guy? You know he might stay up He might watch a movie. He might go to sleep. Yeah, this dude does his own shit

Starting point is 00:10:29 You know okay, so back to the bus so I have a bus and I have to and it's a real bus It's an actual tour bus. It's an actual tour, okay, and you guys keep it at home I think my neighbors think Aerosmith spending the night a lot of the time It's a proper tour bus, big old diesel pusher. Biggest cat out there, the ASX. Oh, there you go, that's me at a truck stop with my daughter washing the dirty. Sure it is, okay, we just went over some of this,

Starting point is 00:10:55 that this is the type of thing that we're looking out for. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. And then you show the first image you show us. No, that's awesome, man. So I'm constantly now, it used to be I was a kid and I had to walk the gauntlet at the Oasis truck stop to get my candies. And now I'm back integrated

Starting point is 00:11:14 because I can only pull the bus into the truck. There it is, look at that sunken edge. Isn't that a steed? Yeah, and... Your guys are so good. Oh, so look, I got my weight lifting kit up there. Oh, you do have a perfect in there I travel with my weights and I got my grill pulled out and where will you guys get like a stay in a more? Upper at like is there like a fancy KOA campground or is there still just the I think there is I think

Starting point is 00:11:44 maybe Berkshire Hathaway bought some conglomerate of really fancy ones. That's not what we do. There is an app now, Hip Camp, I think it's called. It's just like Airbnb where someone might have like eight acres, they don't know what to do with the eight acres. They're not gonna build on it. So they just put a 50 amp charger in like a sewer line and some fresh water on

Starting point is 00:12:06 that spot and then you book it, you never see anyone. I just pull the bus into a field on a river hook up and then we're good to go. Or we'll have, we plan that we're going to be at friends house that have big driveways. Like that was at my friend's house in Jackson Hole who has a big old driveway. So you guys will just hit the bus and just take the road and just go all the way up there? Yes, but now I'm at the truck stops all the time and then I step out of the bus

Starting point is 00:12:32 and I walk the same way in to go to the professional cashier, you know this whole routine. And the dudes I'm seeing are all the guys that they're just waking up in there and everything. And then I play this game in my head where I'm like, I'm walking tough enough and I got my gloves on. Do they think I'm a driver? You know, that's kind of what I want them to think.

Starting point is 00:12:54 And if they seem to get into the things, I'm like, if I got nothing to drive. But I try to walk, the way I walk into the trucker entrance of the pilot gas station into the trucker entrance of the pilot gas station is the performance of my life. It beats any work I've ever done in film or television. I believe, it really does, kind of in my mind. Cause I'm afraid of those guys.

Starting point is 00:13:16 I mean, if you really boil down to what it is, it's like I was afraid of them as a kid, I'm still afraid of them. So I fucking walk into that gas station, like you're gonna have your hands full of my. Someone else. Yeah. Even though you're a fucking six foot two and jack, but I feel eight years old.

Starting point is 00:13:33 Yeah. Dude, it's so funny. Sometimes you always feel eight years old, don't you? Oh, I'm always, always. I have to actively remind myself I'm not as like a mantra. Yeah. I have to like, I have to go through a checklist, like, okay, you're 49, you got money, you're not tiny, you've been in a trillion fights,

Starting point is 00:13:51 like what are you fucking afraid of? What is, did you have step-dance? What did we have? Yeah, we had one guy, Mr. Charlie, and he was in... That says a lot that his name's Mr. Charlie. He was in the war, and definitely, so, and I don't know if he was in, um... That says a lot that his name's Mr. Charlie. He was in the war, and definitely so, and I don't know if he was called Mr. Charlie before the war, but I think he loved the war so much

Starting point is 00:14:10 that he changed his name to Charlie. Mm-hmm. You know, like... Which is confusing, because was he in Vietnam? He might have been in Vietnam. Because they were calling the enemy Charlie. Yeah, I think he, uh... He took on the enemies.

Starting point is 00:14:22 That's extra star. He might have, because he would take my mom always to like the Chinese restaurant all the time. And he would kind of like do like a lot of, he would like kind of pay homage in there and he did some kind of bizarre shit. And, uh, sometimes he would take us to this is one crazy thing he would do. He owned a car wash that had like all the coin were coin operating. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:39 Coin operated. So he always had those are cash. Oh, bro. He always had some fucking money on him. My whole life. The one thing I I wanted to own was a coin operated. Yes You grew up hearing that it's just like it just prints money. Yeah, it just sits there. No one works there Yeah, you stop in occasionally and grab a couple thousand dollars in quarters. You stop in do CPR on somebody Pull a body out of the 55 gallon drum trash can. Yeah, my mom would always take us to the wash her car.

Starting point is 00:15:08 That was like a big thing that we would do. And so anyway, so she met Mr. Charlie and then he would take us to a holiday and express sometimes for the continental breakfast, but he would say he was taking us out to eat, right? But it was just, we just, it was just the free breakfast. We would just go with the door and eat, right? But I never knew, we just- It was just the free breakfast. We just go in the door and eat, right? But I never knew, so I always like asked the strangers

Starting point is 00:15:28 like if I could order like a fucking something. Like yeah, I'll have another waffle and the people would just be like, what the fuck are you talking about? I'm here for my son's soccer tournament. You thought everyone worked there. Yeah. But he was good and then he got,

Starting point is 00:15:41 he lost his mind or something and he had Alzheimer's and then he wore gloves a lot and Pete. and it was kind of like people always ask him He played the piano and he couldn't hear him and it was just like a lot of just it got it kind of just devolved You know what ages was he might have died at 89 Okay, wow, he's much older than I was Yeah, he's my brother, but my mom is your mom has a flair for older men. Okay, but back up. How old were you while Mr. Charlie was taking you to the holiday and express? Probably I was probably a good 11. I bet. And was he he was too old to come in and be like,

Starting point is 00:16:17 I got a new program and I'm the dad. Or did he do that? No, he didn't really. He was pretty chill. He's like, you know, reach for the remote for him and stuff. Yeah, he didn't really. He was pretty chill. He's like, I want you to reach for the remote for him and stuff. Yeah, he wore like a cool hat. And he would just, sometimes he would get his dog in his lap and just, he would tell us how much he loved his dog and he would make us kind of sit there

Starting point is 00:16:33 and listen to him tell us that. But he was a pretty handsome guy. And what else? How old was your mom while he was 89? She was probably 70, I bet. So, no. She was, I think he was probably 20 years older than my mom. Mm, and your dad, how much older?

Starting point is 00:16:51 Cause 38 years old. My parents were 38 different. I know. Why were you emancipated at 14? I just didn't like being at home, man. I fucking hated it, you know? I didn't like my environment that much, you know? I just didn't like being at home, man. I fucking hated it, you know? I didn't like my environment that much, you know? I just didn't like it.

Starting point is 00:17:08 I didn't like my environment. I didn't like not having a say in where I was or who I was. I felt like I kind of just gotten this space in life that I was like, this doesn't make any sense. This family, there's no connection. My family felt like a business that you had to work at, but you didn't know what the job was, It doesn't make any sense. This family, there's no connection. My family felt like a business that you had to work at,

Starting point is 00:17:27 but you didn't know what the job was. But you had to be there every day. Every day you were just standing around. There's like a kitchen, there's like a fucking, but you have no idea what the business is. But you gotta be there, you know? So. Was mom?

Starting point is 00:17:40 Yeah, so my mom was cool. My mom was just, you know, she was just a different type. You know, she was just, oh, my mom was just working all the time, you know? What did she do? She sold things like, say if you go to like a CVS or a gas station, the things that are like at the end of the aisles.

Starting point is 00:17:57 The impulse buys? Yeah, she would kind of go stock those a lot of times. Okay. So, and one time she worked for this cookie company and she would have these cookies, dude, just these huge boxes of fucking cookies. But we were children, dude. Jackpot.

Starting point is 00:18:11 So we would go at night sometimes and sneak out in her car and just lay on top of them and fucking the whole thing. It smelled so much like cookies. You could inhale and your stomach was full. Oh my God. You were like, I can't take it. Have you ever thought about just fucking

Starting point is 00:18:24 filling your chair? Gills with cookies and reenacting that whole experience. It might be cathartic and therapeutic. It could be interesting man Yeah, no, I never thought about that. I did go to my old if we were better friends when we become better friends Okay, I think I'm gonna surprise you By just filling your chair key to the absolute broom with cookies. You're gonna get in late for something, you're gonna be grouchy, and I was shooting the vape last night. I should have went to bed two hours earlier, and I gotta stop jacking off.

Starting point is 00:18:51 And you're getting your cards, and you're like, oh my God. God damn. Mom? Yeah. Is there a flavor of cookie I should be? I love the Snickerdoodle, but these were more... Can I guess were they on oatmeal raisin

Starting point is 00:19:07 They had some cinnamon oatmeal raisin They had it was very because you open the box and they were in plastic inside of the box And then there was they were all lined up They fit exactly as many as they could in that box and it was an Unbelievable amount of cookies to be around as a child. We couldn't even fathom it. But so that was, yeah, that was the kind of work mom did. She was just always gone a lot. And then one, two little sisters. Yeah, well, I have two sisters and a brother.

Starting point is 00:19:35 But the brother's way older, right? Like, could have been your dad. My dad had some children from his first marriage that were like way older. Like one of them was like 57 when I was like probably eight. Right. And he- So you guys didn't probably-

Starting point is 00:19:49 I think he's somebody shot him but. But how old's your older brother from your mom? My older brother from my mom is two years older than me. Oh, okay. Yeah, he's awesome. Do you have a little brother syndrome like I do? Like what is it? Well like A, I thought I was terrible at everything. My brother's five years older than me. So I'm like, I'm getting? Like what is it? Well like A, I thought I was terrible at everything.

Starting point is 00:20:06 My brother's five years older than me. So I'm like, I'm so weak. I'm a terrible skateboarder. Little brother syndrome. Oh, I wonder if I agree with what the definition I Google. The little brother syndrome can manifest in one of two ways. A, a sense of entitlement.

Starting point is 00:20:22 I deserve what he has or two, a means for advancement. He can do it. I can do it too. I didn't even know of this definition and I guess I agree with some of the items in there. But in general for me, I wanted to be cool and older and I wanted him to let me hang out with him and I was trying desperately to like accomplish all these weird tasks I had decided was the entrance into being his best friend. And probably a like an inferiority complex. And then I got, when I got around kids my age, I was like, oh wait, I'm kind of strong. I'm not as terrible at that. And then I was like, high on that. But yeah, I just, I guess wanting to be around somebody nonstop, who was very ambivalent about me being around your brother.

Starting point is 00:21:10 Yeah. Yeah. As he should. He was five years older. Oh, five years is a long enough stretch where it's like, yeah, if some kid is following me around and that kid is, he's going to be weird no matter what, because he's younger. And he's weird on top of it. And you're fucking weird. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:21:24 Um, left handed dyslexic. Were fucking weird. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Left-handed dyslexic. Were you really? Yeah, yeah, still. Oh, god, huh? Yeah, I never had dyslexia, I don't think. I think we both did. Did we both do Santa Monica College?

Starting point is 00:21:35 Yeah, I did that. Yeah, me too. I think I have an associates from there. Really? Yeah, I actually have an associates degree from Santa Monica College. I can't remember if I have that or not, but I remember there was always a rumor

Starting point is 00:21:46 that Steve Smith went there. Did you ever hear that rumor? No, Steve Smith guitar player from Billy Idol, or Steve. Steve Smith number 89, that played for Carolina. Oh, Panthers. Okay. Yeah. I didn't hear about a single famous person going.

Starting point is 00:22:00 Yep, Chad Johnson and Steve Smith played together at Santa Monica College. Oh, I didn't even Wow Chad Johnson that's at Santa Monica your team by the way is so fast. I feel like we're on a CNN show Like barely out of your mouth and we're looking at a picture of it. Rice Krispie treats with chocolate chips in them. Dude, we've never even met before. No.

Starting point is 00:22:30 It's kind of crazy, you know? Yeah, I just like you a lot. Well, thanks, man. I DM'd you to let you know, like, I just like you so much. I think you're one of my favorite people to see something pop up on Instagram. Every single time I like it.

Starting point is 00:22:41 Oh, thanks, bro. When it's sincere, I like it. When it's really funny, I like it. When it's like, over the life, there we go, there are my Rice Krispie treats, I was thinking of. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, I don't know. Do you have that with people where you don't know them,

Starting point is 00:22:53 but I just feel like, oh, God, I just think I really like that guy. Yeah. You do. Yeah. Can you think of somebody recently? And would you reach out to that person? I'm so bad at answering stuff. I'll stop if you want. I'm just in the habit of asking questions.

Starting point is 00:23:12 I thought maybe Justin Bieber one time, but we'd met each other through someone. And so then I just messaged him and. Did he respond? Yeah, he did. I have a really wild story of that variety. Yeah. Which is, I didn't know how DMs worked.

Starting point is 00:23:30 Like I knew, I knew the people that I followed or, you know, I knew, I saw theirs, but then I didn't know there was like general, you go there. I didn't know you could write, you could do like whatever it's called. What's the one? It'll bring you to all of basically the verified people who have messaged you. Oh, interesting. Oh, I know you're talking about top requests. I didn't figure that out until maybe two years ago

Starting point is 00:23:54 and I've been on Instagram for at least a decade and I figured it out and then I'm looking and I'm like, oh my God, these people who have reached out to me that I didn't see. One of them being, and of course his was at the top. My wife. Cause he's the mother. Justin Bieber was at the top and he was two years old.

Starting point is 00:24:16 And it was the nicest, most sincere DM about like, hey, either he had just gotten married or he's about to get married. And he like thought maybe Chris and I like had some of the things figured out. And he just wanted to chat. Oh, wow. And then fucking for two years, I just didn't respond.

Starting point is 00:24:33 And then I was like, oh my God. It's like, I really missed the vote on this. I could be like mentoring Bieber in his love life. And I'm there for that. I fucking saw the movie, the doc. Blindside? No, the doc. Blindside is what he said.

Starting point is 00:24:50 I'm trying to think of like a love movie. No, no, no. It's the doc about him. Oh, the documentary about him. And I fucking loved it. Like I'm not hiding from the fact that I think he's awesome. Yeah, he's been through it.

Starting point is 00:25:02 Yeah, and somebody that's been through a lot too. I'm always curious when people go through some watch, like, how do they end up still being able to take care of themselves? Yeah, not dead. Not dead. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I look at, if you had given me all the stuff he had at his age, I would have jumped a Ferrari off a molehole and an accident, you know, with too many people in the car.

Starting point is 00:25:23 Oh, we didn't have any. Yeah, I remember we had, I got a two liter of diet seven up dude. And I remember I fucking set a vehicle on fire in my neighbor's yard. Like, yeah, if I had gotten any uppers at a young age, shit would have gotten bad, bro. Yeah. Do you want more from delivery? Well, who doesn't? You can get it now with DashPass from DoorDash. That's right. DashPass from DoorDash is the most affordable way to get everything

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Starting point is 00:28:16 turbocharged me reaching out to you. It's like, I just liked you, and then I was talking to a friend of mine, Charlie, about you, and he's like, oh, I love him, yeah, I listened to his pockets. He goes, you know, he's sober, I think he's 18 months sober. And he's like, oh, I love him. Yeah, I listened to his pockets. He goes, you know, he's sober. I think he's like 18 months sober. And I was like, oh, wow, now I really have a reason

Starting point is 00:28:29 I could reach out. That's cool, man. But yeah, I quit. Well, it was nice of you. I'm glad that you did. Yeah, yeah. We've already had a couple of really nice text exchanges. Yeah, we have, man.

Starting point is 00:28:37 We had a nice one the other day. And yeah, it's been fun, man. Yeah, I like meeting people that are in recovery. I feel a lot easier around people that are in recovery for some reason. And I don't know even what it is if there's a different immediate level of care or connection. What do you think about it?

Starting point is 00:28:57 I think it's what's weird is looking back on my life, it parallels exactly who I also hung out with as a kid, which is I Only hung out with kids on welfare Who also had divorced parents who also probably had violence in the household? I Like being around people that I don't think are gonna judge me And in the program everyone there is a fucking scumbag. Yeah, everyone's a piece of shit. That's why we're there. And like the great like experience you have if you go to AA and you work the steps is you're like, you've made this list of things you've done wrong

Starting point is 00:29:34 and you're required to tell somebody and generally it's your sponsor or whatever. And you're certain when you walk in there and you let them have this list of things you regret that they're gonna call the police on you or throw up in disgust with you. And they look at you, they're almost laughing. Like, well, that's it.

Starting point is 00:29:55 Well, you didn't fuck any animals. That's like, I'm impressed you haven't fucked the animals. And then you're like, well, read the back of that. Yeah, oh shit, you're right. Fuck, I love something now. But that look of like, yeah, me too. Is the most comforting thing for me. Yeah, there'll be times when I'm in a meeting and like you're sitting there and somebody says

Starting point is 00:30:17 something and you can feel this is crazy. It's it's almost like how volleyball teams all get their period at the same time. You can feel like everybody in their period at the same time. You can feel like Everybody in the room at the same time like Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you ever had that happen. Oh, yeah for sure and you're like it's almost like a group of fish or something like Yeah, some of the same change direction. Yeah, some of the steam leaves at the same time out of every it's it's got it's It's got to be some physiological thing, but it's unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. Some of the steam leaves at the same time out of every it's it's got it's it's got to be some physiological thing but it's unbelievable. Yeah. Well, weirdly, I just interviewed this expert in his book was called super communicators and he was talking about them with on arm care. Yeah. Yeah. Um when two people are having a, and it's the same conversation.

Starting point is 00:31:05 Oh, yeah, Charles do Higg. Fuck, they're fast. It's almost too much now. It's too fast, and I feel like I'm having deja vu. It's a triggering deja vu. No, no, keep it up, keep it up. Don't change the video. We'll dial them down a little.

Starting point is 00:31:17 You guys have a winning recipe. But there's basically like three different conversations. All conversations fall into three categories. There's like, there's logistical ones, like what are we supposed to do next? And then there's emotional ones. What are you talking about for what? So like a classic one would be

Starting point is 00:31:34 you and your girlfriend are talking and you think you're having a conversation, like how should we fix this problem? And she's having an emotional conversation. She's saying, I'm overwhelmed by this whole thing. Got it. And so, you can look at a brain in an fMRI and see, like, the part of her brain that's active is like the

Starting point is 00:31:57 amygdala, and the part of your brain that's active is the neocortex. So, literally, you can't have the same conversation. It's like two different parts of the brain that do two different things. So you're like, well, here's how we're going to fix this, hun. You're never going to do that again. I'm going to tell it right. And she's like, nothing is comforting her fear in that moment. So you guys are just like, and then the more you talk having the two different conversations, the worse it gets for each other. So when you both

Starting point is 00:32:23 are having the exact, the real same conversation and you look at people's brains in an FMRI, all of a sudden their brains become kind of indistinguishable from one another. Or another example is you can take a musician playing by themselves and then another musician playing by themselves look at their brain in an FMRI and they have a unique pattern and once they start playing together or are start doing a duet, their brain pattern become indistinguishable. So we, we, we will match our breathing when we're connected.

Starting point is 00:32:54 Our heart rates will match. All this crazy shit. That's true. Start mirroring. Yeah. This is like scientifically proven time and time again. So yes, that moment in a meeting, it's like it's chaotic, someone fought over a parking spot, another guy just got broken up with blah, blah, blah, blah.

Starting point is 00:33:09 This person like sludge hammers through, generally for me when I've experienced it, like with some moment of vulnerability, like I just failed at this fucking thing. And we all go like, wait, oh God, I know exactly what it feels like to fail in that specific way. And now all of us have joined the same brain pattern. So I think it's not imagined.

Starting point is 00:33:34 I think it's physiologically observable. And it's so powerful. It's when you realize like, oh yeah, we're social monkeys and we're supposed to be in a group like this and we're supposed to be dialed in and it feels fucking right. And then I didn't go to church or I was drugged to church. That was never a part of my life.

Starting point is 00:33:54 So I don't have that kind of nostalgia for that collective experience I know people in church have. I would go, my grandparents would take me and my brother and I would get in trouble and my papa Bob would flick our ears and, you know, we missed it. That's a great comparison, like when you said, like with the birds, like how they all change at the same time.

Starting point is 00:34:13 It's so crazy. Yeah, I think there's a lot of other things going on that we just don't have the ability since we only have five senses. It's hard for us to, I think there's a ton of stuff and information that's in the world, but we only have five ways of inputting it.

Starting point is 00:34:28 So we really are kind of limited as opposed to maybe other things may have more, you know, or in the future they may have like creatures that have more or something, you know? Are you, would you consider yourself hyper-vigilant? I don't, do you mean like, invading the capital or something like that? Like what? Are you talking mean like, evading the capital or something like that? Like what?

Starting point is 00:34:47 Are you talking about like, people that invaded the capital? No, no, no, no. Like I'm guessing, I don't know enough about you. But if you leave the house at 14, my guess is it wasn't like the cleavers. Yeah. Right? Oh yeah, I just didn't feel any connection at home.

Starting point is 00:35:03 So then at a certain point I was like, well, why am I gonna stay here and let this define me? Where did you go at 14? I don't want to say with a friend. Oh, you did? Yep, one of my buddies. And their parents were fine. Yeah, their parents were pretty cool

Starting point is 00:35:13 and we had a nice time and we're still, I still go over there when I go home. Yeah. So it's like, and their kids left like a year later and I was still up. You stayed after they left forever? Wait, so your buddy was a couple years older than you? He was same age, but yeah, something happened.

Starting point is 00:35:28 He drove into the neighbor's house or something. He was drinking and then he had to leave. And so I was like, it's still there. You were still there. They kicked out. Oh, and now in his room. No, I'm fucking, I'm just. You were being sponsored by him, but then he's split

Starting point is 00:35:40 and they kept you. That's really funny. But it was like- Did you feel weird as hell like that first dinner? Would you eat dinner with the family? Yeah, but eat dinner with them, we had fun, man. And your buddy was gone and you were there. Yeah, it was kind of-

Starting point is 00:35:51 Do you remember that first dinner? Oh yeah, dude, I was like, well, more for us. I was just in there, but I remember the first night I closed the door- To his bedroom? No, this is not- Which was now yours? This is when I had my own bedroom there and I closed the door night I closed the door. To his bedroom? No, this is not yours. This is when I had my own bedroom there and I closed the door and I was like,

Starting point is 00:36:10 I was like, fuck, I hadn't had my own room. I was like, this is crazy, dude. And then something, I must have had drugs on my mind at that point or something, because I remember I opened the window then and lit up a little joint, right? And I didn't realize, I I guess how like stinky it is. Just yeah, I was just excited to be a homeless.

Starting point is 00:36:30 You thought you had your own home. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here we go, I'm finally on my own. No, no, you have a room, Theo. Yeah, yeah, so. It's still in out, someone else is out. And his room, his window is next to mine. And I guess his room was open

Starting point is 00:36:46 He fucking comes in there. He's like dude. What the fuck? We just got you in here And then he fucking bitched me out and then took the rest of the joy to fucking smoke But that was that was when did you start doing drugs? I think probably then, you know, around then I was smoking weed and stuff, but I wasn't doing anything heavy. And I never liked drinking or drugging.

Starting point is 00:37:09 But then when I got like, I think I just had so much issues like with dating and like, Like you couldn't date and you wanted to? I don't know. I just had so many issues with it. I just, The girls like you? Not? I don't know, I just had so many issues with it. I just... The girls like you? Not when I was young,

Starting point is 00:37:29 and then I switched to a new high school when some of them did, and that was crazy. It was so scary, you're like, now what do we even do, you know? Yeah, yeah. But then it was like, everything was kind of fun. I just could never be faithful in a relationship. Yeah, me neither. I'ma try it.

Starting point is 00:37:43 Really, did you have a problem with it? Oh, fuck no, yeah, couldn't, couldn't. It's a relationship. I'ma try it. Me neither. Really? Did you have a problem with it? Oh, fuck no. Yeah, couldn't, couldn't. It's like the longer I'm sober. What, are you spraying it on my tongue? Yeah, I go under the tongue and then let it kinda soak in like you had dip in.

Starting point is 00:37:55 All right. I just quit dip on the first, that's what it is. Well, this is one of us have quit shit. We're spraying nicotine in our face. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. That's good for you though. Yeah, that's great.

Starting point is 00:38:04 This is the tobacco that's an issue. We're spraying Nick's eating in our face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good. It's good for you though. It's great. It's the tobacco that's an issue. Yeah, elementary school for me was way too big, way too big. Most parents felt bad. They thought I had flunked a couple of grades. Like, I was, Could you work all?

Starting point is 00:38:18 Yeah, I was just a big kid. And I was dumb because I was dyslexic and I couldn't read. You were really dyslexic? Yeah, and I went to special I was dyslexic and I couldn't read. And I was really dyslexic. Yeah. And I went to special ed every day for two hours with, you know, Oh, they would knock at the door in the middle of class and they would go dachs and then they would call someone else and we'd like stand up and we'd

Starting point is 00:38:38 leave and go to special ed for a couple of hours. It was rough. And then, you know, I'm trying to tiptoe around the fact that most of the kids in that classroom were like in wheelchairs and everything else. So I was confused. I'm like, why am I, what's going on here? And so I was huge and dumb and I don't know, too many colleagues. Oh, wow, I can't believe you found a picture.

Starting point is 00:39:02 That's first grade. That shepherd. Yeah. This big teeth. I haven't believe you found a picture. That's first grade? That's shepherd. Yeah, it was big T. I haven't had braces, my teeth were all fucked up. I was in braces for like nine years. Really? My teeth were bad too. So anyways, I was in love with so many girls

Starting point is 00:39:17 in elementary school. I had huge crushes, no girls like me. And then thank God my brother, in between fifth grade and sixth grade when I went to junior high, he's like, here's the situation. You're shaving your sides, we're going spiked on top, you're gonna bangs now, long and back, your skateboarder and your punk rock go. And I just went with it. And I arrived at Highland Junior High in the most popular girl in that junior high, Sasha. Oh, she sounds beautiful. Dude, she was so fucking beautiful.

Starting point is 00:39:50 It was insane. God, dude. I'm walking down the hallway in the sixth grade hallway and Sasha Crossett's walking down the sixth grade hallway and I'm like, oh my God, what's she doing here? I'm like, oh, that's Sasha Crossett. And she fucking handed me a note and like went into my science class and I opened it up and said will you go with me?

Starting point is 00:40:06 And I was like Dude, that's the first drug that is the first drug or I went I was like What's happening? Is this a prank? Yeah, I had her phone number. Oh Went home serious went home. It was like Uh-uh. Went home. Serious. Went home and was like,

Starting point is 00:40:25 you know, dialed the phone. Remember that? Yes. And then I chatted on the phone with her for like two hours and then we were fucking going together. In your room, you chatted with her or on the, did you have a universal phone? Question.

Starting point is 00:40:37 Sixth grade, I was living at my dad's for a few months. So yeah, I had my own room. There wasn't a phone in there, but it was easy to have privacy there. And it for a few months. So yeah, I had my own room. There wasn't a phone in there, but it was easy to have privacy there. And it was a landline. My dad was out, he wasn't sober yet. So, yeah. Really, he was partying?

Starting point is 00:40:52 Yeah, he was going fucking hard. Sold cars, drove a Corvette, fucking Bangkok. At the bar seven days away. Yeah, yeah, he was everything. Dude, that's so cool, man. Yeah, I remember walking. And that changed cool man. Yeah, I remember that in that change my life Oh, that changes everything and I liked it so fucking much and I remember she like She was in eighth grade now in sixth grade

Starting point is 00:41:15 So we would make out at the bus before she got the bus I go to the basketball games with her and she told me to go Up her shirt I remember going for sure and it like, her bra felt so tight. And I was like, should I, I'm supposed to go under this bra, I think, but fuck it's so tight it's gonna hurt if I, and I was like, monkeying around in there and fumbling. And then she's like, just go on around.

Starting point is 00:41:34 Like she really made me do it. She was really asserted on it. And I got up in there and got it. And it was euphoric. And it was such a high. Such a high. And I didn't have it. And maybe this little brother, I just felt like,

Starting point is 00:41:47 A, I could never turn down that attention if I got it. I couldn't resist it. And of course I'm like, and they don't know, no one knows. Everything's fine. I'm still very nice to this person and that thing happened. And then yeah, just a terrible pattern of cheating. Yeah, the bad pattern starts man. And yeah I was saying when I think back now I've cleared up like dude I quit drinking in 2004

Starting point is 00:42:12 in September of 2004. I had an opiate relapse but in general I haven't had like fucking wreckage in 19 years. Oh that's great. And so the stuff that really plagues me now is like just really going back and be like, God, yeah, those girls didn't deserve like they deserved me to be faithful to be like, yeah, shiver. It's not to waste their time. Use them to prop up my own self esteem and then need someone again to because it doesn't last. Yeah. Oh yeah. Feeling great. I remember walking across a gym. I was at this new school. I walk across the gym and some girl,

Starting point is 00:42:50 this girl was hot dude, she was like, I think she had like 30 tits. She was so hot and she was looking at me and I thought I had like shit on my leg or something. And I was literally like so fucking embarrassed I was like and I was walking across the gym I could feel every step and I was like I have got to get across this gym And I gotta find a mirror ASAP

Starting point is 00:43:13 And I gotta de-shit myself Because these bitches are catching on and And then after that like a girl like came to the office one time and kind of liked me But before that I'd been so nervous Like one girl I liked in like middle school. I didn't know how to tell her this. I saved up the saliva in my mouth the whole class. And after class, I ran up behind her and spit right in the back of her hair. Whoa! That was your move.

Starting point is 00:43:44 It was like an animal. It was like, I feel like a chimpanzee. When I think about it now, it's like, dude, you were an, you had no, jinnis equal. You didn't, you were, you were, and I say-

Starting point is 00:43:56 I'm afraid you can just shit in the hallway and stare at her as you do. But when I think- Hey you! Yeah. When I think about the effect- Over here! I love you. I love you so here, I love you so much. I love you so much.

Starting point is 00:44:09 I'm sitting in the hallway for you. I'm rooting myself for you. I'm fully exposed. God, yeah, it was like, it was just such an effect. That kind of thing had such enough, just, and that became like an addiction, man. It like, just in the sense of wanting attention from women. It wasn't as much like a sexual addiction for me. Like over the years, it just was like,

Starting point is 00:44:33 I needed to know if that, there was any chance that that girl cared about me. I just needed- You craved her. Yeah, I needed her to look at me. I just needed something. I needed people to, I just needed her to see me. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:48 And then it's okay if it played out how it wanted, but I needed to at least have her see. Not be invisible. Yes. I needed to be invisible. Yeah, cause you feel invisible. I felt invisible all of elementary school. Like why?

Starting point is 00:44:59 I'm friends with the guys that have girlfriends. My friend Trevor's with Amy. We're always together. Can you not see that I'm here? I know I'm too big for everybody, but you know. Yeah. I had a great relationship with my mom, but it kept getting punctuated by stepdads.

Starting point is 00:45:17 Oh really? So, it's like- So you had unlimited stepdads? Yeah, I had unlimited stepdads. Almost like a limited shrimp over at Red Cross. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was bottomless step dads. The sizzler of step dads. But so it'd be like super connected

Starting point is 00:45:34 and it'd just be the four of us, my little sister, my brother, and my mom. And that was always perfect. But then a new guy would roll in and then it was like his program and we had to have different manners at the table. And she'd be distracted, understandably. She was like in her 20s raising three kids by herself.

Starting point is 00:45:50 I have no like resentment towards her about it all. But yeah, there was like, and I just fucking craved it. I wanted to be loved at all times by a woman. I still want to be. Like my needs are unrealistic. Oh, that's interesting. Yes. If I'm dead honest and I'm in therapy, my therapist will be like, you know, it's not Kristen's job. Like she's not your mom.

Starting point is 00:46:13 She's not going to dot on you in being infatuated with your existence. It's no way. Wait, that's not, but I'm giving up so much. I'm not banging anyone. Shouldn't I be doting on and celebrated every time I walk through the door? Shouldn't it be a parade? Shouldn't my daughter's like, every day I've not left? Shouldn't they be like, goddamn it, Dad.

Starting point is 00:46:34 We got one of the good ones. I know your dad was out at three, but no one's proud of me. No one cares. Oh, I remember my first, like, or my second girlfriend, and we were like really in love and... What age? I think this was in college.

Starting point is 00:46:52 And she and I, she broke up, she'd had it. And I remember saying, you can't break up with me, you're my mom. That's what I remember. It came out of my fucking face. And that's why... Which was just a slight improvement over spitting in her hair.

Starting point is 00:47:06 That's where you matured to by the time you're in college. You can't hear my mom. Yeah. What a Freudian slip. Oh, it was Freudian waterslide, dude. But it blew. It came out. It like came out.

Starting point is 00:47:18 It just I was like, you can't break up with me. You're my mom. Oh, my Lord. And I was like, and I didn't know for years what that even meant. And then once I got into recovery and started getting a look at my life, I was like, you can't break up with me. You're my mom. Oh my Lord. And I was like, and I didn't know for years what that even meant. And then once I got into recovery and started getting a look at my life, I was able to be like, wow, dude,

Starting point is 00:47:31 like I had no understanding of like how to get affection or be fair with affection or anything like that. Yeah. I mean, I didn't have a template. I didn't have a fucking idea. I didn't know. What was her response? Do you remember? She, I know she felt probably bad. I didn't have a fucking idea. I didn't know. What was her response? Do you remember?

Starting point is 00:47:45 She, I know she felt probably bad for me, you know? Oh, good. She loved me for sure. Yeah, yeah. And she's a super loving girl, but, but I think she probably years later, probably saw like, oh, that dude was not a safe. He was not ready.

Starting point is 00:47:59 Yeah, that guy was not ready. No, no, he was not ready for her, I'm not sure. And he's still fucking just trying to get ready. Still not ready, but. He's trying to get ready. But that stuff doesn't go away, man. That's still trying to get ready, but he's trying to get ready. But that stuff doesn't go away, man. That's the crazy thing. I thought at certain like, like at certain times in my life, I'd be like, Oh, in a couple of years, this will be gone, but it doesn't go away unless you do something about it. Yeah. You have, I have the fantasy that to be aware of it would solve it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:48:21 Like, Oh, I see what's happening. I'm just trying to get, you know, I'm trying to heal. Oh God, I could go super deep, which is like, and this is recent, and this is probably too much for your show or the dude who listened to this, but no, we've dude, if I crown here one more time, I'm literally turning into the Garth Brooks. Yeah, me too. I've been crying all the time. Yeah. Every I didn't cry for 30 years and now I can't make it through a day without crying. Bro, it's like. It's fucking beans over.

Starting point is 00:48:48 Yeah. It's like you got the menace that you don't have anything to numb it and here it is. But I also think that there was a sexual component which is like, okay, so my mom adores me. That's obvious. I was the golden child. I did not lack for a mom who believed in me

Starting point is 00:49:04 or supported me or thought I was wonderful. She definitely did but Something would take her away from me and I was smart enough to realize oh We can't fulfill this romantic desire of hers like that's something we can't fulfill She's gonna have to go get boyfriends right aka. AKA, she's gonna have to have a sexual relationship with people. Right. So, I think in some weird way, and I think I'm just starting to understand this aspect, which is like, I have to give that to any woman if I want her to stay around in a way

Starting point is 00:49:39 that is world-class and you can't go, you don't wanna go shopping for more. Like, the priority I put on that part, the sexual part, I think was very outsize for what a woman would even give a shit about. Oh, so you thought- I was like, oh, the only thing I don't have that my mom needs is sex. Is a sexual part.

Starting point is 00:50:00 So I need to be a- And that's what I want her to stay at all times. And I don't want any of these guys to come around. So now if I'm having this experience that also feels loving and nurturing and with a female My thought is like I have to give her that thing In a way that she'll never go need it and leave me for it. God, that sounds like that sounds kind of exhausting In a way, I mean kudos to you, dude. Yeah, I don't know I was always so nervous with sex. be like you are shit, you know and

Starting point is 00:50:30 And it would be like yeah, oh dude so like Unbelievable and I would just yell things out like that's that was great sex. You know this fucking hoping that Yeah, it's just You can rewrite history for her at this point. Yeah, and it's just, oh, no, no. Nobody has had, nobody has given out more bad sex. I don't think. And me, hands down, there should be a game show, I think. And they just put like a whoop bracelet on you

Starting point is 00:50:59 and it's just like, people are like, no fucking way. Oh my goodness, wow, we haven't seen one this well. This is unbelievable. Do you remember when they asked George Zimmerman's personal trainer on the witness stand when he would rank his physical fitness level out of 10? And George Zimmerman was the guy that shot the- Trayvon Martin.

Starting point is 00:51:18 Trayvon Martin. And he had a physical trainer, which is comical in itself, but they asked the trainer, what would you rank? What would you give Zimmerman's physical fitness out of 10? And he said with a straight face, point eight, or some point, point something.

Starting point is 00:51:37 And I was like, Oh my Lord, that is the last thing you want to hear your fucking trainer get into the decimals when trying to assess your foot. Why not just say zero? I guess even if you thought of me said zero, it would be, oh, do we have it? Oh, point, point five out of ten. Oh my God. Is that?

Starting point is 00:51:57 Wow. Woo. What he really said was zero. That was him. Like, he's like, I got to throw a half point into just not be so cruel. Yeah. We got to know when he's sitting there on presumably he's like, not in, in that, and behind that desk waiting, hoping to see her and hope he

Starting point is 00:52:16 gives me a four, maybe at a high end and low end of expectation. That'd be more shocking than the verdict. Cause like he has some going, you could take away one of the two things. Low end of expectation. That would be more shocking than the verdict. The guy's like, yes, I'm going. You could take away one of the two things. Dude, yeah, and you don't want to be that little flubber in prison. I don't think, because those are the guys I hear that get like, kind of banged a lot around like the holidays and stuff. The holidays? Why the holidays?

Starting point is 00:52:43 Because people are sentimental? Yeah, it's like the little chubby guys in prison that get fucked around the holidays. That's what I've heard. What holiday is the worst? Christmas? Christmas probably. Now if it's Hanukkah, it's like an eight days long. Very sad Jewish inmate.

Starting point is 00:53:00 Hey, somebody hide fat Josh. We gotta fucking make sure he doesn't get banged up. But yeah. Get him somebody hide fat Josh. We gotta fucking make sure he doesn't get banged up. But yeah. Get him into the, what do they call it when you're by your side? Solitary confinement. Yeah, they got put him in solitary confinement. Yeah, man.

Starting point is 00:53:17 Easter's got to be a big one too. Yeah, there's a little bit more. Because there's a resurrection and you're feeling extra bad about you. Somebody's like, yeah, I'm gonna get hard again because Jesus did. It has a reason. Buying tickets can be stressful. If you want tickets to a game and event,

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Starting point is 00:54:41 So did you, how much times have you been married before? No. No. It was your first marriage. Yeah, I was with, I've had three really long-term relationships. I had like a five-year that started in high school and then lasted until me living in LA and then I was with an incredible woman, Brie, for nine years. But one, I thought I had kind of outsmarted, which was, I had already felt so fucking terrible about cheating on girls. I always got caught, inevitably I got caught. And those were the, I can't remember those phone calls.

Starting point is 00:55:19 Trying to explain why it didn't, you didn't care. The, the- Bro, is there anything worse than that? Oh my God. Well, it's tied with driving to someone's apartment to tell them that you're breaking up. I mean, those, those two for me, are like, I've had a lot of motorcycle injuries. I'd take a, a million times before I'd ever drive

Starting point is 00:55:41 to someone's apartment and just say like, I think we're in different places. Yeah. And they're like, no shit. Oh dude, the craziest is when you go over there and you knock on the door and they open it, but they kind of walk away from the door after they. Right. So it's just fully up for you to walk in and talk to, you know, it's like,

Starting point is 00:55:58 when the gig is up, dude. Oh, fuck, I hate it so much. And then, you know, you've been feeling that way for months in my case before you have the balls to drive over and fucking be honest. And then so that drive is insufferable and then sitting in there is so terrible. But there is that feeling when you walk out the door and you've made it and you're walking to your car

Starting point is 00:56:22 where you just go, oh, oh, thank God. Okay. Oh, you get that blast of like relief. Yeah. And then a day later, you're like, I think I'm in love with her. I think I love her so much. And I fucked up.

Starting point is 00:56:36 I think I really fucked up. Then you're insanely in love with her for a few days. And then you got to like, white knuckle that, just like it's boozer or coke to not re-engage Anywho what were we so? Oh? So when bring I met we met Cheating on two people. Oh, okay, right? And I knew immediately. I'm like I fucking love this girl like oh my god

Starting point is 00:57:00 Do I love this girl like I want to have kids with this girl at some point Wow, and you had you ever felt like that before or no? I guess I did. Uh, uh, the girl I was cheating on with that I'd been with for five years certainly, but that had run its course in that like, I had moved to LA to pursue this. She was, she hadn't joined me. It was kind of obvious.

Starting point is 00:57:22 We also got kind of, we got realistic about the fact that we only see each other four times a year and like that got a little, it approached an open relationship or maybe even became one. It kind of was just like, look, you're a human, I'm a human, I'm 21. Oh yeah, you're almost children. So we were kind of grown up about that. So then when I met Bree and we met cheating, I just had this moment of honesty with her. Or I said, like, I would like to have kids with you

Starting point is 00:57:49 and make it to 30 and have kids. And I don't think you and I will make it if one of the requirements is monogamy. I just think we're fooling ourselves. Like if that's one of the deal breakers, we're not gonna make it to the part I wanna make it to where we have a kid. And she was like, I don't, so what are you suggesting?

Starting point is 00:58:11 I'm like, basically like, I don't wanna lose you over that. I'm liable to do it. And I feel like you're probably liable to do it. We just met cheating on each other, you know, on two people. And there was this kind of weird intermarry, Super cool. And there was this kind of weird intermarry, whatever, period where she like ended up

Starting point is 00:58:32 chatting with her mom about it and all this stuff. And then at some point she just came to me and said like, yeah, I guess if I don't know anything, I don't really care. And I was like, yeah, and I don't, I have no desire to know about anything, but I'm not gonna require that from you. We both about anything, but I'm not gonna require that from you. We both work just like, I'm not gonna require that from you.

Starting point is 00:58:48 So I was in an open relationship for nine years. Wow. And we slept in the same bed every single night. We lived together. There was no like craziness. Well, mind you, I was also a fucking full blown addict during this period. But if she was at home, I don't know what happened.

Starting point is 00:59:04 When I was at home, I don't know what happened. When I was at home, she didn't know what happened. And that, to some degree, worked. I mean, it definitely worked. We stayed together for nine years in our 20s, which is almost impossible. And I love her like crazy. Still do, we're still really good friends. And both of our lives have worked out great.

Starting point is 00:59:20 And I wouldn't say that that was the reason ultimately we broke up. But all that to say, going back to like getting older, being sober longer, I, you know, I would have liked to have been someone that could have just been monogamous with her. I think she deserved that. I also think, I think even within the, with even within those rules, I was scumbaggy. Like I definitely hit on her friends sometimes. Like I did terrible shit under the guise of like, well, I'm not lying about this.

Starting point is 00:59:55 I'm honest in, that can be true. And also you can recognize that people are hurt, that you're leaving a wake of people that are bummed and hurt by you And so it's like great. I didn't lie and I'm above board but people around me are kind of hurt by their experience with me I don't like how that feels. Yeah Yeah, like bring it like around your friends and they know what you're doing. It's just like all they all feel awkward Yeah, it's like what's going on here. Yeah, that also I think more like how many because every we're very open about it like dude, I remember it was New Year's Eve and

Starting point is 01:00:30 I was out of them like in the mountains with some girl and all of her friends and then her friend and I ended up hooking up like In the closet upstairs and then a couple hours later. She's like did you hook up with my friend in the closet? And I was like that's the dumbest fucking thing that I've heard of. Right, that's crap. I was like, I'll let the shit up. Yeah, well, and we're all just at this. So stuff like that, I think I feel like,

Starting point is 01:00:55 and some of those things I've had to like make amends for, you know, and like, I didn't do a ton of stuff like that, but there were certainly moments where it was like, I'd be in an instance where I had somebody I really liked and cared about, and there was still a part of me that needed to get more validation or needed to be seen, you know?

Starting point is 01:01:11 And it wasn't always even about sex, but sometimes it was just, I needed to know if I could flirt or if that girl would give me some response, you know? Well, that's when you connect the dots that like, oh, because I connected these dots in sobriety, which is like, oh, this is the exact same thing. Like whether I want to acknowledge it or not,

Starting point is 01:01:31 this sex thing and this approval thing is identical to cocaine. Yeah. I had like the most visceral experience of my life that pointed that out to me. Well, I had two. One was, and I was a few years sober, Visceral experience of my life that pointed that out to me. Well, I had two. One was, and I was a few years sober,

Starting point is 01:01:49 and I was single, and I was on MySpace. Mm, yeah. And I was on TV. Oh my gosh. Yeah, just take that in for a second. So you were just damn Prince Charles or whatever. I was enjoying the shit out of MySpace. And also I had not, I hadn't looked at the

Starting point is 01:02:07 sex component as potentially harmful to me yet. Yeah. But I remember a gal came over. And you were good at sex, you said? I mean, what could be more nauseating than a guy saying they're good at sex out loud? So that's just a lose, lose for me. What does pretend that you're okay? I certainly aren't good somebody, you know Also, let's be honest the more you fuck the the better you are like you're not coming as fast Sure, you've had periods where you fucked seven days in a row. No, I never I was always too lazy to do something like that I think oh really. Yeah, you were saved by your was always too lazy to do something like that, I think. Oh, really?

Starting point is 01:02:43 Yeah. You were saved by your left- left allergy? It's like twice in a week or in two. Yeah. I was always very like, it was like it took a while. Yeah. Just like, yeah.

Starting point is 01:02:55 Well, okay. So I need to preface this by I'm ashamed of this, what I'm about to tell you, like I am ashamed of this, but this is very true. I was a few years sober. Uh huh. I was single. Someone had to come over that I had met on my space and I was giving

Starting point is 01:03:11 them a tour of the house and I was in the first room of the tour and I had this thought that was like, oh, this tour is so long. You had a big house? No, I didn't have a big house. There was, it was like, but then I thought, what is this? I have a very familiar feeling. Like it's unmissable.

Starting point is 01:03:39 This feeling I have right now, and I like took a second to try to figure out like, what, I know this feeling, I know this feeling. What is this, what is this? And I was like, oh my God, I know exactly what this is. This is sitting in my old drug dealer, Tom's living room, while he measured out shit and told me about his fucking day and got distracted

Starting point is 01:03:57 by telling me about his day and I wanted to scream, just like, fucking give me a bump and I'll listen to you forever, but fucking focus and give me the thing, like that impatience. Oh yeah, teamwork, you want teamwork. Yes, just like, knock off the bullshit, give me the thing and then let's talk, fucking be all ears for eternity.

Starting point is 01:04:19 Yeah. But that feeling is so specific to me that in that moment in the room I realized, oh my God, it's the same thing. I'm like, I need this woman to give me the thing I need. And I hate that. I hate that about myself. I hate that for her.

Starting point is 01:04:39 I hate all of it. It's just, I don't wanna be insatiably needing something from somebody and dependent on them giving me the thing. And I was like, whoa. So that was one moment where I was like, oh God, they're kind of the same thing. Right. And then once I recognize that I'm like,

Starting point is 01:04:58 I probably have to think about it in those terms. Like, do I feel worse about myself or people, you know, are they benefiting from, you know, whatever. Then the other crazy thing that happened that really sealed it for me was, I was monogamous, and it was for the first time in like a decade.

Starting point is 01:05:16 And so, and then I was talking to my then girlfriend who was in Boston doing something, and she told this story about bumping into somebody I knew she cheated on her ex-boyfriend with and they're all at the same hotel. I'm thinking like, well, I'm sure they fucked, right? So I'm like, I'm mad. Driving, I'm driving in the car on the 405

Starting point is 01:05:33 and I had been monogamous at that point for like three months. We get in a kind of fight over that and we hang up. And I just had this like swell, like a swell of horniness. The way you do when it's like, I gotta get Coke or I got whatever, that really big swell. And all of a sudden I was so horny and I was like, I'm gonna text Kelly,

Starting point is 01:05:59 I'm gonna text Kelly right now. And I can stop by her, I'm not supposed to because I'm now a monogamous. And then I just had a moment where I was like, that's interesting. You're in a fight. You feel emasculated by whatever just happened and your body's smart enough to go, well, let's get horny. You won't have to feel any of this if you're horny and we're at Kelly's house and you're getting validated and you come, all this stuff, I was like, fuck, this is like a defense.

Starting point is 01:06:31 Cause it's just like any other thing. I'm so afraid of my feelings or feeling uncomfortable. Or- Your body created some defense. My body was ahead of me. I was like, I hung up. I didn't even register what had just happened. And all of a sudden I'm like, I am physically horny.

Starting point is 01:06:44 It's not like I made it up. And those two things for me, I was up, I didn't even register what had just happened. And all of a sudden, I'm like, I am physically horny. It's not like I made it up. And those two things for me, I was like, yeah, this is a, this is a whole thing we gotta figure out. Yeah, wow. Man, yeah, that's the craziest part is that a lot of times it's not even you making a choice. It could be you choosing once you get the input, but your like physiologic-ness is making the,

Starting point is 01:07:07 it's dealing you the cards and you're like holy shit. And again, back to the brain. The area of your brain that's now sucking up all the blood and running the show isn't the part of your brain, your neocortex, where you would think through all the things that are gonna happen after this. It's like you're not even, these two areas can't be doing the thinking

Starting point is 01:07:26 at the same time. So once that swell of like craving comes about, this is offline. You're like, I don't, I'm never gonna see you tomorrow. Or that's tomorrow Dex's problem. Right. I've been a member of him, but today's Dex is about to get fucked up and feel good.

Starting point is 01:07:46 Yes. But yes, like everything, the ability to have any comprehension really, or any forward thinking completely disappears. That's crazy, bro. I mean, it disappears. Yeah, it's gone. It's unbelievable. You can't access it.

Starting point is 01:08:00 No. I mean, my biggest thing was just that one of the things I ran into was just commitment. A lot of times I would get into a relationship and then I just could not be committed like I couldn't be committed. I Just couldn't do it. You know, what's your explanation of that? Was it because you you wanted to hook up with other girls or is it because you thought Ultimately, they would see that your piece of shit and be out. I wanted to have the option to do what I wanted to do. Yeah, I wanted to be I wanted you wanted it all.

Starting point is 01:08:29 You want to go to Sizzler? Yeah, I wanted it all and I'm in the mood for sale. I didn't know. No, I just didn't. I just didn't want I didn't want to have somebody else define me. There's a part of me that really doesn't trust having somebody else define me in a way. Does it make any sense or no?

Starting point is 01:08:54 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was like, even I remembered like when I had a girlfriend, I would, a lot of times, I wouldn't even say this is my girlfriend. I would say this is my friend and then their name. And a lot of that stuff I feel bad about, man, it was, you know, because it's not fair to them, you know, like, so it was that sort of thing.

Starting point is 01:09:11 It was like, I just, I just, there's something I just had the toughest time with letting somebody else define me. But do you think, and I don't want to speak poorly of your mother, but do you think it's okay to suggest that since mom didn't have your best interest in mind, that it was going to be pretty hard for you to imagine that anyone was going to have your best interest in mind? I think there could be some truth to that. I just don't know.

Starting point is 01:09:39 It's hard for me to get there in my head. Yeah. Like, um... Or like intellectually, you could maybe see the thread, but it doesn't feel like anything real. Right, yeah. And for a lot of times for me, I got to get to that feeling space, you know, for it to activate inside of you, you know? So I just think my mom was just super bit, you know, there just wasn't a connection there.

Starting point is 01:10:00 And I really wanted it. How old were you when your dad died? I was 16. So, and he was very you when you had died? I was 16. So, and he was very old, you know, but he was cool. I mean, he was old. But my mom would come to the baseball games. My mom was kind of a fucking gangster in a lot of ways. Like she would come to the baseball games

Starting point is 01:10:17 and she would fucking scream, hit it or we're leaving from her fucking astro van And bro, I was already horrible at baseball. I was horrible hit it over leaving she would yell And having patients for fourth inning every time we were gone She would pull you She would all right. He had five chances. Let's go. She would pull me from the game. Yeah, yeah, it sounds like she had your best interest in mine. Totally.

Starting point is 01:10:51 She was just surviving, you know? Yes. Well, again, you can be sympathetic and not judgmental to it, but also acknowledge what happened. Right, and I think that's still where I'm at. Like, it's still, like, there's still a part of me that has, like, a lot of resentment. I think you'll have kids one day.

Starting point is 01:11:04 And it'll change it all. It will because you'll start just, you know, subconsciously you'll just be evaluating like, wait, where was I when I was three? Like where was, like I remember my daughter came in, our oldest daughter, this was probably a year and a half ago. She came in and she was like, she had had a nightmare that me and Kristin got divorced, she had had a nightmare that me and

Starting point is 01:11:25 Kristin got divorced, that mom and dad got divorced. And I said, uh, okay, well, you know, what happened? Um, someone cheated. I think mom cheated on dad. And I said, okay, well, couple of things. I would never divorce your mom if she cheated on me. Oh, we would work through that. Like we're, that's not gonna happen.

Starting point is 01:11:45 But let's say it happened. What would then, what would go on, what would happen next? You say, well, we went live together. And I'm like, yeah, but I'd buy the house next door. And I will be with you nonstop. Like, I'm not going anywhere, no matter what happens. That's not gonna happen. But if that happened, I'm living next door to you.

Starting point is 01:12:06 And you come and see me whenever you want. And maybe your mom will date someone that's really cool. Maybe there'll be another cool person in your life. Like that's, we don't know what it would be. But while I was saying all this to her, I was looking at her and all of a sudden I was just like, oh, she's nine by nine. I'm on my third stepdad and I've already been molested.

Starting point is 01:12:31 Yeah. Like, and I'm looking at her, I'm like, no, no, she's way too little to be on her third dad and to have been molested. Right, like Jeepers. You have like a compassion for yourself because I think in my mind I'm always older than I really was or I felt with it or I knew the score. He felt responsible. Yes. And in many ways I was. And then again, I'm palling

Starting point is 01:12:56 around with my brother who's five years older than me. So I was always a little bit five years ahead. But I look at this little girl and I think, oh yeah, that's way too many things to have happened to a nine-year-old. Wow. Right. Yeah, that's kind of interesting. I think I probably need to get to that place in my life. I would like to. Yeah, I'm definitely like, yeah, I'm tired of kind of living in the same place sometimes, you know? So I'm just working on some of that stuff with my sponsor. What's the longest you've been with a girl?

Starting point is 01:13:25 A girl probably three years, maybe? Uh-huh. So pretty long I feel like and so Yeah, it'll happen and then also I fell in love with my work, you know That's one thing I really fell in love with like yeah, I love to work, you know I love to work. It's like a safe thing that I know like how many days a year are you touring doing stand-up maybe a hundred and maybe a hundred shows a year a hundred and then you're wearing Nashville the rest of the time yeah Nashville or you know I'm building the house in Nashville yeah this is so. Maybe we should meet up in our tour bus.

Starting point is 01:14:05 It's like at a wobble house or something. Yeah, dude, that'd be cool. What made you guys choose Nashville? Well, it started with, I grew up around a bazillion lakes where I'm from in Michigan. It's just lakes everywhere. Oh, so it's rural Michigan. Yeah, so I'm at Charlevoix.

Starting point is 01:14:23 I was, oh, Charlevoix is so beautiful. No, not that far out. Oh my God, have you been there? Kid Rock always talks about it all the time. No, it's preposterously beautiful. Yeah. In fact, you go there and you're like, this is in the USA?

Starting point is 01:14:35 Like the, that area of Michigan, the water's turquoise blue like the Caribbean. Like Torch Lake is like, yeah, it's so beautiful up there. And they have these Patoskey stones which are all tortoise to like turtle. They're impossibly beautiful flat stones for escape. It's credible.

Starting point is 01:14:50 But initially we were gonna, I found a house I wanted to get there. I kind of wanted to live out my fantasy of grown up broke, driving by the houses on a certain lake. And I was home visiting my best friend Aaron, and I was driving by that lake and I was like, oh shit son, you could fucking have a house on that lake now, like that happened.

Starting point is 01:15:08 And I was like, I was weird, I was like, that happened? Was this scary though to like, like lean into like a newer you that like has like money and all of that and pop opportunity and stuff like that? Sometimes I think I feel a little bit like, yeah, like it's just like. It doesn't fit well or?

Starting point is 01:15:33 Yeah, I think sometimes I feel like it doesn't fit well. Sometimes I feel like, yeah, I've talked about this before, but it's like, I don't want to put, it's like, I kind of like where I am. Yeah, but is it that or is it that you're afraid? I'm afraid what people will think of me. Yes, so I have that too. Like I'm from a very blue collar,

Starting point is 01:15:49 half the town was on welfare. There's a fight in school three or four times a day, you know? Violent, drunk, blue collar place. It's the last suburb out of Detroit. Like a union kind of. What's that? Like a union? Yes, yes, everyone's parents were in the UAWurb out of Detroit. Like a union kinda. What's that? Like a union? Yes, yes.

Starting point is 01:16:05 Everyone's parents were in the UAW where I grew up. But it's the last suburb out of Detroit before it turns to just cornfields. So it's like if you went East, it got like more and more built up. But if you went West of where I was from, it was just pastures. The kids got on my bus with horseshit all over their boots

Starting point is 01:16:23 from shoveling and shit. So it was like, it was, it was, Muir. Is that near? I went to Muir junior high. No, you didn't. Yes. MUIR. What? MUIR. Yeah. Why do you know Muir? Billy Strings was just on here and he's, he grew up in Muir. He's a, no, always an amazing guitarist. I just watched you posted a clip like a few days ago. Yeah. Yeah. And he was talking about shitting on a heated seat at the sunset tower. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:16:47 So same. So I have the same thing. Wow, interesting. Which is like, I hated rich people. Yeah. I grew up, I hated rich people. They were the enemy, right? I still hate them.

Starting point is 01:16:55 Yeah. I know. That's hard to come to peace with for me, which is like, at what point are you just a fraud? Because you're a rich dude now. And I can't identify with that because I hated rich people. They were the enemy.

Starting point is 01:17:10 They were the people that made you feel shitty and that looked down on you. Yeah, well, we had a veterinarian, dude. And he, like our street, like was like, people would go from like town and they would cut through our neighborhood to go to like kind of like the nicer area where people lived at. And he was like a veterinarian and he would throw out like the dead animal stuff in our ditch all the time.

Starting point is 01:17:31 Oh wow. And like yeah, he would literally stop a fucking black Mercedes. They're love six or seven cats. Oh, he's just dropping off a bunch of fucking B-Sean carcasses and just hitting the road up there to Richville and we would all get out there and yell and call them queer or whatever. And then fry up the food. Then thank Jesus for the meal.

Starting point is 01:17:52 No, we would throw like the bones at each other. We would make like dinosaurs out of the bones and hide them and shit and fucking. But I think something like that, yeah, there was, well the rich were always an enemy, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You always had to have an enemy, you know So I think there's still good enemies to find out there and maybe they're not all rich

Starting point is 01:18:09 Maybe it's just more about like greed or like well the the thing that I'm Entertaining is like Yeah, that's gonna happen People who are my people are gonna hate me because I'm rich. What can I do about that? Like that's their thing, just like it was my thing. And to pretend I'm something other than I'm not feels

Starting point is 01:18:36 like an even bigger contradiction or hypocrisy. Yeah. Like I gotta be realistic. contradiction or hypocrisy. Yeah. Right? Like I gotta be realistic. I'm still, I still feel very comfortable in the shit though. Most comfortable. Yeah. And so I think if you met me,

Starting point is 01:18:57 whatever you thought or you were mad about, I don't think you would feel that way. Yeah. Cause I'm not above anyone. I just, I got some paper and I fucking love it and I want to keep it. That's all I wanted. I fucking been working so hard to get that fucking paper.

Starting point is 01:19:11 I didn't want to be a rich guy, but I wanted the paper more than anyone else I ever ever in my life. Oh, that's interesting. So. Yeah, and I think also being rich can be like an attitude too. I think that's a lot of it.

Starting point is 01:19:23 It's like there was something about the attitude of it. Nepotism, shit like that, I don't like. I didn't like, that's some of the shit I just, I don't know. I still have a chip on my shoulder about like the kind of East Coast, blue bloody, these schools, the dress. But dude, I went to vacation this year with my kids in Martha's vineyard. Right.

Starting point is 01:19:47 So yeah. And I'm like, well, what are we going to do here? How are we going to play this? We're going to act like you can't be there and act like you don't go there. I, I, and my wife was like, why do you want to go to Martha's vineyard? And I'm like, those Kennedys could go anywhere. Yeah. The Kennedys were the gangsters of all gangsters.

Starting point is 01:20:03 They could go anywhere. If they went there and set gangsters of all gangsters. They could go anywhere. If they went there and set up shop, there has to be something there. Oh, I see you're saying. Like, I gotta see why the people that could have done anything landed there. Oh, that's interesting. I was like curious.

Starting point is 01:20:18 And I went there and was like, oh yeah, no shit people. Look at this fucking incredible. Is it nice? Yes. And again, this is when I tell myself, what's nice about it is like, hey, it's is fucking incredible. Is it nice? Yes. And again, this is when I tell myself, what's nice about it is like, hey, it's just fucking gorgeous.

Starting point is 01:20:28 Have you been at Daytona Beach? A million times. That's where we go for our, you know, winter break, my mom would drive us in a van and we would sleep in the van down at Daytona. Yeah, I hadn't been there before. I, it blew my mind. But a different vibe than Martha's Vineyard.

Starting point is 01:20:43 Yeah, yeah, I can imagine that. You go to Ron John down on Cocoa Beach? Ron John's surf shot. Yeah, I can imagine that. You go to Ranjan down on Cocoa Beach? Ranjan's their shot. Yeah, I've been over there, dude. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've been over there. It was all like getting the Ranjan shirt when I was a kid. Yeah, that was the best.

Starting point is 01:20:54 And the sand is so hard packed in Daytona that my brother and I remember going there, this is what always happened. We would drive down in a van, the four of us. We'd sleep in the van and it would always be those shittiest weather that Florida had the whole year. We'd be leaving Michigan in the snow and then we would get there all excited

Starting point is 01:21:11 and then it would be like 49. So one day we were there, it was raining, it was cold as hell, but the scene was so hard packed that my brother and I were on our skateboards and we had like windbreakers and the wind just pushed us down the beach on our skateboards, like flying. One of my greatest memories of my whole life.

Starting point is 01:21:28 That's such a good feeling, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, do you? Skateboard on the beach. I don't even know how you would do it. Oh, on the boardwalk. No, on the sand. Oh, wow.

Starting point is 01:21:38 I know people listening would probably not believe this, but like if A, everyone drives on it, so it's just like really packed out, and then if it rains, it was just like being on concrete. Damn. Yeah. Oh, what a moment. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:21:49 What's Martha's vineyards like? Like I think of it as like there's ducks kind of. There are ducks. You're going to find all variety of waterfowl there. Yeah. And there's a lot of. But I'll tell you the thing that I'll say. They do have a restriction on how big of a house

Starting point is 01:22:03 you can build there. So like this place versus, um, my Hamptons, right. So the Hamptons to tracks billionaires, Martha's vineyards, millionaires. That's a stupid distinction to make. But for me, still with this weird class warfare thing, I was like, okay, well, there's no yachts out here. There's no people with like 40,000 square foot houses. And everyone's flashy. Everyone drives around in like vintage cars.

Starting point is 01:22:31 There's no like Bentley's and shit. It's like everyone's an old Cherokee and stuff. You got Michelle and Barry. They live there. They got a spot. Their house looks to be bigger than the square footage. A lot. A lot. Yeah, that definitely looks like it. A lot. A lot.

Starting point is 01:22:45 Yeah, that definitely looks like it's 11,000 square feet. Yeah, it looks like there was at least a kickback of a bedroom or two. Yeah, that might be some kind of presidential clause. Yeah, Bobby Kennedy's always up there. He always talks about it. And just growing up there. Yeah, they have the, what is it, Kenny?

Starting point is 01:23:03 Kenny Bunkport? There it is. Is that their whole thing? Yeah, so you cross a little bridge out of Martha's Vineyard into a tinier island that's called Hyannisport. Oh, that's the Hyannisport. That's where Ted Kennedy crashed. No, yeah.

Starting point is 01:23:20 Oh man, they all. There's not a single stoplight on the whole island. Yeah, well. It's just all stop signs. Do you think they'd put one in after what happened to Ted Kennedy? You would think they would have cameras everywhere and yeah, dude. Oh, I can't believe that. Yeah, I can't even imagine you pull up and somebody's just Just making just salmon or whatever on the porch Fresh salmon they just hostile, but yeah, I think maybe your money thing is a little bit like

Starting point is 01:23:45 You'd be betraying. It's just interesting to see what it's like. Okay. Well, never had any money now. I have some money Yeah, what's this like? You know, I mean the nicest part is being able to Eat whatever you want. Oh, yeah That's the best and you go to a restaurant and you know that you can pay the tab if your friends want to eat Yeah, the tooth there's three things that make me, will make me feel rich. Um, cause I was in LA for 10 years trying to get a job acting in Conan. So I was living on eight grand a year for like a decade in Santa Monica. So like I could never order pizza.

Starting point is 01:24:20 I wanted pizza so fucking bad. I could just barely stay drunk on my budget. And then I had to really be entertaining to the dudes who had Coke. But, or was I going with that? Eight thousand. Oh, so now when I order pizza, I'm like, yeah. Four, we need one.

Starting point is 01:24:38 We'll get four, and I feel so rich that I can order any fucking amount of pizzas I want. The other thing is I go to the gas station and I'm not even sure what it is a gallon. And I love that feeling. I used to fill up my fucking Honda Civic like halfway. And if it was 10 cents more, I was stressed. So just getting gas, I feel like a bazillionaire.

Starting point is 01:25:02 And the other thing is a second fridge with beverages in it. That's what like kids I grew up with bazillionaire. And the other thing is a second fridge with beverages in it. That's what like kids I grew up with that were rich. They had another fridge in their garage with all kinds of beverages. So like those three things have me feeling like a Rockefeller. Dude, we had this cereal closet. We ate cereal probably, I would say, 400 nights a year. Okay.

Starting point is 01:25:25 And I remember we had this cereal closet and sometimes if you were hungry, my mom would literally put you in there. There was no light in there. There was 26 boxes of cereal on there. And she'd be like, don't come out until you are full. And she'd just go in there in the dark

Starting point is 01:25:40 and fucking eat cereal. And would you eat it with milk and a bowl? No, you just fucking get your hand in there and enjoy yourself like a fucking man, boy. Right, right. But that kind of shit I loved, man. They just said, I just saw something the other day about the endless shrimp they were having people ruined it.

Starting point is 01:25:56 Oh, how? They were losing money. How? Yeah, Red Lobster. Oh, here it is. Endless shrimp is financially ruining Red Lobster. I lived for a fucking endless anything. Oh Yeah, endless tits do my fucking buddy's mom had

Starting point is 01:26:16 Yeah, yeah, they get up early and feed those Lobster in and in earnings report, in early November, Ludovic Regis. Oh my God, they lost $11 million. They've been shrimp out. I think like every company in the world is now operating like a startup. They think it's a good idea to just be hemorrhaging money

Starting point is 01:26:41 the whole time and just grow, grow, grow. They're like, fuck it, we'll worry about this later. We need more Red Lobsters on every corner. The, the, the Thai union group, which owns Red Lobster announced that its ultimate endless shrimp deal, which is normally a limited time offer, but was added to the daily menu in June. Wow. Was it exceedingly popular that it's so popular cause a restaurant to post

Starting point is 01:27:03 an operating loss of more than 11 million. How would you not, after a week, look at the books and be like, hey, the shrimp has to end? Yeah, I don't know how it took them to the end of the year. We want to keep it on the menu, the guy says. And of course we need to be much more careful regarding what are the entry points and what is the price point we're offering.

Starting point is 01:27:24 Now for $25, guests can choose two shrimp-centric options. When they are ready for more, they can order additional shrimp selections. We had a place called the Big Shrimp over there and people would go there and fucking they had a... Oof, cheddar bay biscuits though. Oh, those things are good. Those are incredible.

Starting point is 01:27:44 Do you remember the first time you ate it Red Lobster, I mine's crystal clear. We had a place called the big shrimp Oh, okay, and it was not a red lobster and they had a huge They had like a stuffed shrimp like mascot or whatever outside on Friday night and People would always just drive by and just like Call them a homosexual or whatever, pretty sad. And they shouldn't, but we did it.

Starting point is 01:28:09 So it was like, it was just that kind of shit. I try to explain to people like when I grew up littering, not only was literally, it wasn't a thing. Littering. Like my mom's a good person and we would stop, if we, like sometimes we would drive to Toronto. As soon as we got over the bridge in Windsor, we would stop at McDonald's

Starting point is 01:28:29 because they had special Canadian bacon. And we'd get everything right and we'd be driving in the car and we'd like all eat and then we'd pack the bag back up. My mom would roll the windows and shove the whole thing out. And no one ever, like it was a non thing. It was like as she's out the window.

Starting point is 01:28:45 Yes it was, in 1982, every third car was shoving an enormous bag of fucking trash out their window and no one thought about it. Like my mom's not a heathen. Yeah, no, she looks. She would never do that now. I would never do that now. But yeah, you just, every time you were done with something

Starting point is 01:29:02 in your car, you'd be like, right out the window. Didn't care, cigarettes the whole nine. It was so liberating. It was a- I miss it. Yeah, oh, there was definitely something. There was definitely something nice about back then. Oh yeah, it was so, it was-

Starting point is 01:29:16 Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act. Causing litter, huh? They made it illegal in Michigan in 1994. Wow. Well, there you go. 94, I'm talking about 82 going to Toronto. Oh, yeah. I'm sure the Canadians were ahead of us a little bit, but probably not till 89.

Starting point is 01:29:30 This is when nature was looking for a sip of orange soda. Yeah. Maybe we told ourselves like the deer eat that bag and everything. They'll eat it all right up. Yeah, that was fun, man. I remember, um, yeah, I remember my buddy buddy Williams dead would take us to McDonald's sometimes and getting that orange soda. We're all good at tasting when you're a kid.

Starting point is 01:29:51 It's never tasted as good. It's still good, but it's not. There's nothing like when you're a kid and you're drinking orange soda and having a hamburger. Do you remember the enormous, they had like these barrel coolers? Like a kid might have a birthday party and they'd get the McDonald's barrel cooler with the orange soda in it. No, I never saw that. Oh yeah, I went to a couple of birthday parties

Starting point is 01:30:11 that had that, just like a keg of orange soda. Oh. Is it even soda? It's an orange drink. It's orange something, yeah. Oh, there it is! You don't recognize that? I never saw that.

Starting point is 01:30:22 By the way, that'd be a cool retro thing to have at the house. I'd be so sick, man. I might add that to the list of an extra fridge with drinks and then a McDonald's barrel. I remember getting, my mom would always be like, you guys should study the menu and make sure you get like the best thing or whatever.

Starting point is 01:30:40 And we're like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, where the fuck are McDonald's? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would have been a McDLT when I was a kid. She always tried to make it so fancy or whatever. And afterwards, sometimes we would go, we would go to get a dessert somewhere else at this cookie shop and they had like,

Starting point is 01:30:58 regular cookies that were kind of for kids and they had a couple of cookies that were like for adults. Like, maybe like a Claire, but just like a fancy looking cannoli. Yeah, just shit like that was not for kids. Right. Right. Right. And every now and then you would get one and you would just oh, biscuit or whatever. That's biscotti biscotti. The perfect trap. It looks like it's good. You get it and it's fucking horrible. And you hate yourself for the

Starting point is 01:31:24 rest of the day. Oh yeah, that is terrible. I was thinking of something else for a second. Every time I got a biscotti, I just wanted to fucking climb inside of my own dick, man. I hated biscotti. Yeah, the second you put it in your mouth, you're completely parched.

Starting point is 01:31:40 It's just like a sponge. You have to pretend it's good to your siblings, and they're enjoying their shit. Yes, they're enjoying their legitimate cookie. Back to the money though. Did you covet it or was it something you never were that obsessed with? No, I think, I mean, obviously I think everybody,

Starting point is 01:31:58 you wanna have some success. There's varying levels though. Like I've met kids that are, grew up in the same way I did and they're not obsessed with it. I don't know how my wife is zero interest in money. Yeah. None. She doesn't think about it, care less. I can't relate to that at all.

Starting point is 01:32:13 But it's not like she grew up rich or she's from Michigan too. I don't like being taken advantage of. So I do like to do business I guess as well as I can. Right. You know, so that kind of thing, you know, but I guess, as well as I can. Right. You know? So that kind of thing, you know? But I guess my thing is just like, well, if I have so many,

Starting point is 01:32:30 then what am I supposed to do with it? Well, you're supposed to save it so you're safe. Right. So that when you can't do this anymore and they knock on the door and go, this was a big mistake. We should have never been letting you do this. Which they probably will soon.

Starting point is 01:32:44 Do you live with that fear? I do. Like I record the attic of my house and I'm just always- never been letting you do this. Which they probably will soon. Do you live with that fear? I do. Like I record the attic of my house and I'm just always For armchair you do? Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's cool. There's a garage that's like separate and then above it is a little attic.

Starting point is 01:32:54 It's like 105 years old. And I'm always waiting to hear like, hey, we're so sorry, but this, you didn't really think you could have something this good and successful, right? There's like, you know, you don't deserve this, right? And I'd be like, yeah, I guess you're right. I think that sounds right.

Starting point is 01:33:13 Yeah, there was some bad paperwork or whatever. I had this, the first house. Oh yeah, that's a picture of the attic. Why am I so close? Oh, that's like the maybe first episode. Yeah, I'm sitting way too close to Ashton. I don't even have a Lazy Boy up there yet, but that's the attic.

Starting point is 01:33:30 Oh, that was Ashton Kimmel's podcast? Or there's Pete Wenz. See now I've got, but also I was so close. Pete Wenz is from the music. Fallout Boy. Yeah. But now we got Lazy Boys and we're pretty separated. Do you, do you still want to do acting and stuff?

Starting point is 01:33:47 Do you like, you've been in some cool movies with Josh DeMille, he's a buddy of mine. Oh, he is, that makes sense. Yeah, he's a neat guy. Yeah, I love him. He's a very, for real person. Yeah, yeah. He's a special dude.

Starting point is 01:33:58 He's almost afflicted with being so handsome. It's maddening. I did a movie, I met him because we all did a movie together when in Rome. He was playing my wife's love interest and I was playing an underwear model. And yeah, I was like, look at this guy.

Starting point is 01:34:18 He's just like, he's probably never thought about how his hair looks. He's never even thought about it. He's never thought about if he was in good shape. He's just in great shape. It looks so effortless. You know a lot of people look, it looks very self-conscious when they look good.

Starting point is 01:34:34 Or they put some effort into it. It's like this guy's trying to not look great and it's not possible. He's the real deal. And he's a big boy. Look at him. What is he, what is he? 6'4 maybe a he's a big boy. Look at him. He's big guy What is he six four maybe six seventy or something six seventy five he um look at those streaks of gray my god

Starting point is 01:34:52 Well, he yeah, it just he yeah, he's almost a fly I have some friends that are good looking and they're like no, but Josh is almost afflicted with he's like almost afraid to show his face He's trying to afraid to show his face. You trying to downplay it? Yeah, he's so modest about it. All I would do is walk up and down the street and then see if girls turned and looked at me. That's all I would do. I couldn't be trusted with that level of handsomeness for sure.

Starting point is 01:35:17 I did enough wreckage not looking like that. But then you wonder, because I have a couple of friends that are so fucking good looking and they've always been so good looking and girls have always liked them and they're not. They seem a little disinterested. And women?

Starting point is 01:35:33 Yeah, not like they're gay, just they're like, it's kind of a given, like for you and I, we see someone like, oh, that girl would never like me. I'm gonna make her laugh and I'm gonna put on a show and I'm gonna do this and I might go dance and I'm gonna do this and I might go dance and I'm gonna do all this. And like there's, maybe I could get in there.

Starting point is 01:35:49 It's like a huge challenge. Yeah, I'm gonna learn French. I remember all that shit. Yeah, and then an enormous reward if you get it. But I think they look in there like, yeah, that girl would like me. Of course she would. Every girl so far has liked me.

Starting point is 01:36:02 So there's no challenge. Being undefeated with women, that'd be crazy. The craziest, also if you're so good looking, if you wanna see something good looking, just look in the mirror. Like, why get a whole other person? Why involve me as a totally, why inconvenience yourself? Just hold up a fucking mirror in bed.

Starting point is 01:36:25 Dude, that's exactly. Do you remember being a kid and you're like your hair would look good? Like, I had all these collocks. Yeah, me too. I hated how I looked. We looked at that picture of me. The collocks are everywhere, right? So once in a blue moon, my hair would feather correctly.

Starting point is 01:36:39 Yeah. And I was just looking at me like, fuck, I can't give anything of my hair would stay like this forever. Like I remember trying to make deals with God. Like this is fun, like if this is the hair I have, they just keep it like this forever. I don't need, you never need to change it.

Starting point is 01:36:54 We got this. We finally got the feather looks right. And it was, it was a daily. I was so ashamed. I think I was so, I just had no self confidence. If a girl looked at me I literally couldn't fucking handle it You could I had to be like I must look fucking

Starting point is 01:37:12 Horrible I spent as much time as I could I run going into the bathroom making sure I looked at least decent And I had the worst acne and the acne the kind where if you smiled some would pop So then you're just sitting there like this like you sneeze You smiled. Some would pop. Yeah, like. Ha in your bones. He had to get the insurgent. What the fuck? And metastasize into your bones. Oh, and they gave you, all they had was. Your back hurt. That hurt so severe.

Starting point is 01:37:55 All they had was oxy pads, right? Yeah. And they burned your face. They made your whole face fucking burn, right? And you'd scrub. Oh, you would scrub, and you'd like tomorrow. You'd feel so guilty. It's gotta be your fault. You gotta like pain yourself. Yeah, and you'd scrub. Oh, you would scrub me like tomorrow. You'd feel so guilty. It's got to be your fault.

Starting point is 01:38:06 You got to like pain yourself. Yeah, that was it. I never thought about it. I thought it was my fault or something. Yes. And you would just scrub and you would be like, tomorrow this is going to make so much better. And it just made it way oilier and way worse.

Starting point is 01:38:19 It was fucking, then they took you to get this shit. There was this yellow, like stuff you would put on, had this blotter and you put that on. Yes. We went to the doctor and it made all your skin peel off your face. It was like an acid washers. So then people were like, this guy doesn't have acne. This guy was in a fire.

Starting point is 01:38:44 This guy's a zombie. Yeah, this guy skins peeling up. Oh Man, it's rough being a kid, isn't it? It was so rough and then sometimes one of your you'd wake up and one of your arms Was a little longer. You like Or you'd see your buddy and his fucking chin would be like seven inches long. What the fuck? It was last week. Haven't Ian.

Starting point is 01:39:10 That was me between eighth grade and ninth grade. So again, I had this cool, Muir Junior High. I have my basketball physical I had to take to do eighth grade basketball. And then I have the ninth grade one. I did not make the team in ninth grade. But in in eighth grade I was 5'11 and 159. Tall. And then in ninth grade I was 6'3, 149. So I lost 10 pounds.

Starting point is 01:39:38 Math. Grew four inches. I had a terrible, still following my brother's directions and he had, he was in a perm phase, so he convinced me to get a perm on top, and it was super long and back. Yeah, I had a perm on top. It was crazy long, and the back wasn't perm, right? So it was just fucking straight.

Starting point is 01:39:57 But up top had a lot of body. And then my nose just got huge, and my chin retracted, and I got super tall and skinny. And I was just like, and then I went to a new high school. Oh, fuck. From like, what a creature. You were a creature. I was, I crawled out of a swamp

Starting point is 01:40:14 and I had a bit, I had life so good at Muir. Like girls like me had a ton of friends and then I just showed up at this other high school and I looked fucking nuts. John Muir, junior high. Is it fucking nuts. John Muir Jr. High. Is it based on the John Muir Trail or no? Is that's the Redwoods guy? Isn't it the Muir?

Starting point is 01:40:32 No, mine is Margaret E. Muir. I think we're confusing Muirs. My school is Margaret E. Muir in Milford, Michigan, which I heard sadly they just closed down. You know, I've never wanted to go to a high school reunion, but I got the idea last year. I'm like, I want to host a junior high reunion because that was the sweet spot. Yeah. Junior high was, dude. It was so fun. I had a spree. Do you remember sprees? Sprees the candies? No. This might be me being five years older. It was a moped, a Honda

Starting point is 01:41:01 spree. And I lived like, I lived miles away from my friend. So it's like, all of a moped, a Honda spree. And I lived miles away from my friend. So it's like, all of a sudden I had a spree. My dad bought it for me and a drunken stupor really felt bad about something before for me. And so there's a spree. My dad used to get us hot dogs all the time. That was his, I'm sorry. Sometimes you come up with me,

Starting point is 01:41:20 there'd be like six hot dogs for you. Because he would get, He would drink too. He would drink and he would park his, he had like a thunderbird or something. He would park it in the ditch a lot of times outside of our house. And I think our mom actually dug the ditch so he would land in it. They were kind of at odds. But I had that black spree you saw with the very sexy purple writing. So I was like, I was mobile in seventh grade.

Starting point is 01:41:45 I could go anywhere that one of the upper corner. Look how sexy that thing is. So I was, by the way, that vanilla colored one's really good looking. Now that I'm older and more mature, I would like that vanilla one, but I could ride everywhere. I had girlfriends.

Starting point is 01:41:59 I could go to their houses while their parents were out you know, at work. It was such a perfect time. Dude, I remember they had a girl that lived close enough to me and I remember walking down there one time cause she would kind of sometimes let people like touch her breasts or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:42:15 And I love- I think this is rural shit that people don't really relate to. Yeah, and it wasn't, yeah, she was all, she'd be like, hey, come over and touch my breasts. There were a lot of girls like that in my time. Yeah, and this girl was big like big bone like built like a tree almost And so like you could run and hide behind her like that with a buddy, you know like on different sides of her You know and she just had the hardest Chest and tits and everything I remember God used to be like I can't even

Starting point is 01:42:42 Way hard just help me out with that adjective. Oh, they were very rock hard. Yeah, really? She was just, she was a lot, mostly bone probably in her. She had some bones in her breast, maybe. Oh, she was fucking a real, she was mostly sternum. She was tusks. Oh yeah.

Starting point is 01:42:58 She was tusks. Yeah, yeah. Muir Michigan and Milford are about 100 miles from each other, but that is where Billy Strings is from, Mirror Michigan, population 660. Oh, so that's a city. So, my, Mirror's a junior high in Milford that I went to. Okay, got it.

Starting point is 01:43:12 Margarity, Mirror. But anyways, so I had this fantasy, and I'm still best friends with my best friend who I met at Mirror Junior High in sixth grade, Aaron Weakley. And so, we, both of us, that was the highlight of our life. He's a recovering addict too. We're, you know, we wentakley. And so we, both of us, that was the highlight of our life. He's a recovering addict too. We're, you know, we went hard together.

Starting point is 01:43:27 Fuck you. He stretched it out another 14 years. I don't know how he did it. Whoa. But we wanted to throw this thing, but we had to consider like, certainly a lot of guys are gonna want to kick our ass at this thing.

Starting point is 01:43:41 Oh, the junior high thing. Yeah. From my town. Yeah. There's certainly some dudes who are not thrilled that I grew up married Kristen Bell. Maybe I already, they wanted to kick my ass in junior high, but a lot of dudes got enormous.

Starting point is 01:43:55 A lot of guys went to prison. You think some people would really be upset, you think? Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty certain of it. So then we were like, how are we gonna have this thing and not have to fight? We don't want to do that. But it seems highly likely. Have you been to a high school reunion? And any guy? Yeah, I've been to stuff like that. We did a nice dinner recently. Yeah, there is something you just don't want people to feel that you're different than them. You know, that's one of like my biggest things is just like trying to make sure that like

Starting point is 01:44:22 my buddies and stuff, as much as I can, don't feel like I that I think I'm different than them and also try to better yeah and to try to check my thoughts too yeah and see what's going on with me so that I'm cognizant of that but one of my biggest fears you know because it grows you don't even know it's growing yeah next thing you know you're just a complete asshole like I will be stressed out and be angry sometimes, but I don't know if I get into the ego space as much, but I get into the overwhelmed space a lot. But, um, but yeah, I think a lot of my French from around from have been pretty stoked about just podcasting the people we get to talk to and stuff like that.

Starting point is 01:45:03 Yeah. Oh dude, I was thinking of you on Friday because I watch the Rick Flair doc. Oh yeah. The 30 for 30 on Rick Flair. Yeah, it's great. Oh right. I remember you had him on. That was unbelievable. Unreal.

Starting point is 01:45:16 Just being able to, yeah, spend time with a piece of your own life like that. Uh huh. Like Michael Landon, I would love to spend time with, but he's dead and. That's your dude, Michael Landon. Yeah. That's an interesting choice. I love Michael Landon. We loved him. He was supposed to come to our town. He was supposed to come to the rodeo once, but he didn't show up or whatever. My mom was all pissed because she even went down there to see him. She did. Okay. This is kind of psychological and you wanna, well, I think she was first to come. What project did you fall in love with Michael Landon from?

Starting point is 01:45:52 Highway to Heaven? Both at the same time. Highway to Heaven with Victor French and then also with Victor French when he was on Little House in the Prairie. I met Nellie Olsen one time at Chase Back. What a fucking head of hair, my goodness. Unbelievable.

Starting point is 01:46:04 That's a mane. You kind of, do you think you're subconsciously trying to have the same hair? Maybe today I am a little bit, the hair is fucking. My lord, what I would have done with that hair. Oh dude, I'm not even gay and I would have definitely kissed this dude. That guy's beautiful.

Starting point is 01:46:23 Bro, that's- I would have done whatever he wanted to do if he'll let me just do this through. That guy's beautiful. Bro, that dude's- I would know whatever he wanted to do if he'll let me just do this through the top of the air. Like, what's the price? That dude's better looking than 80% of the girl I've ever dated, which is crazy. Do you enjoy podcasting more now? Like, what do you feel like for yourself?

Starting point is 01:46:41 Yeah, I didn't answer your question. How free did you get when that started? Like, were you, because you, you started podcasting a lot of people weren't doing it. Yeah, but I also felt late to it. Like there were like, Mary was already there. Chris Hardwick was already huge. Like I definitely felt like I'm a poser that I'm starting a podcast. We just had our six year anniversary last week. Yeah, I think that's where we're about at.

Starting point is 01:47:03 You're beyond that. I looked at you. You've, you've been podcasting for like eight years. Oh wow. Minimally. Hey, Jesus Christ. Yeah. So you already doing it. I felt self conscious like, Oh, this is so embarrassing. Was it embarrassing in your acting world?

Starting point is 01:47:16 Like, or in that Hollywood world, did it feel like kind of a weird thing to do? Kind of, because sometimes, you know, people are always a little weary sometimes. I think they're less weary now, but people at the, I think five or six years ago. I felt like it was below. Yeah, just like, what am I do, you know? I didn't have that fear. I had more of the fear of like, what does Marin think?

Starting point is 01:47:39 What does Chris Hardwick think? Like the people who've already done it and proven, well, what does Rogan think? Like this is embarrassing that I'm now trying to hop into this thing that they've all been doing for years. Yeah. But weirdly, yeah, now people will act like I was somehow early because then of course, there was a much bigger wave after we started. But I love it

Starting point is 01:47:58 so much. I don't have any desire to act. I haven't acted in a couple years, I guess now. I'm so fulfilled. I am on four shows a week, and I produce six shows a week. Oh, wow, I didn't know you guys were doing all of that. Yeah, so it's very like- Good, well thank you so much for taking the time today, dude. Oh my God, I wanted to be on so bad. That's awesome, man.

Starting point is 01:48:21 But it's, I love it, do you love it? Yeah, I love it. I just love it. I love wanting to Like yeah, I love it. I just love it. I love wanting to learn more. I love the scary part. I think I've evolved as a human because of it, which is like I was kind of happy where I was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it was working just fine. Yeah, I think I was enjoying myself and it's like, I don't know if I've gotten like, I mean, I just learned you can't help but learning more from listening to people, you know?

Starting point is 01:48:46 Well, I do. So Mondays on our show is celebrities. And then Thursdays is experts. So like scientists and fucking, you know, start up people, you name it, Bill Gates has been on. Wow. Well, who was last, you just saw, I had that, you know, Pulitzer Prize winning author

Starting point is 01:49:07 who's written this book on communication. So Thursdays is constantly someone really challenging that super duper smart. And yeah, I feel like I'm still at college, but I don't ever have to go to class. I don't have to write an exam paper. I just, the smartest people in the world come, Bill Gates has sat down and chatted with me, you know.

Starting point is 01:49:27 What was he like, too? Cause he gets such a rap. Like everybody thinks he's like, he's like this lizard, just like. He thinks that people think he has children in his basement and he's dream of a green old chrome to stay young. Right. Which is so comical,

Starting point is 01:49:44 cause I've both interviewed him a couple of times. And if just look at him, it's not working. He's aging very expectably. Like if Bill Gates looked 36, I could see where you would have that conspiracy theory, but he looks fucking his age. Right? God bless him.

Starting point is 01:50:01 He looks exactly how we should. It seemed like, I think I get worried when people have so much control That's the one thing that I think about like wealth and stuff It's like I feel like they should put a cap on how much wealth and control somebody could have Because here's what I wanted is if say if one person makes so much money Does that mean other people don't have that money to make? No, so that's, I think a lot of people have this zero sum thought of how the economy works, but that's not the case.

Starting point is 01:50:30 People invent shit and grow the economy. So like my favorite biography I've ever read in my life, everyone should read it, it's called Titan. It's about John D. Rockefeller. And it's about him building standard oil. And so this dude John D. Rockefeller and it's about him building standard oil. And so this dude, John D. Rockefeller, when he, when he became a hundred millionaire, that had never existed. Wow.

Starting point is 01:50:51 That the economy was so, it was so small at that point that I think they say that out of every dollar that existed in America, he had like 50 cents of it. So all these inventions, all these products, they all just swell it. So it's, it's kind of has an infinite ceiling, but I think people think of it as like, we're at a ceiling and they got this, but that's not actually our GDP swells and swells and swells and everyone has, but John D Rockefeller took all that money and he started, mid career, like in his 40s, he was like,

Starting point is 01:51:27 I want to solve everything now. The South, what's going on in the South? Oh, people think Southerners are lazy. Why do they think they're lazy? He deploys a team of scientists, they figure out, oh, like 40% of the people in the South have hookworm from walking barefoot. When hookworm gets in your body,

Starting point is 01:51:44 it overtakes your intestines, it saps all your, they have no energy because they're not taking in the nutrients from their food. He's like, we gotta eradicate hookworm from the South. Worms are still in the vitamins? Just this growth inside your intestines prevented the nutrients from absorbing. So he sends out a team of people

Starting point is 01:52:01 to educate everyone in the South to A-wear shoes. And then there's a very simple cure for it, which is like, I think an iodine regimen. So he also sets up free iodine regimen to get rid of. He eradicates the hookworm. There was no such thing as research science before John D. Rockefeller. He's like, all we have is these doctors.

Starting point is 01:52:20 They graduate from all these different schools. No one knows what degree is what. There's no standard. He's, and then he said, well, what's the best medical facility in the world? It's Johns Hopkins hospital. He paid them to come up with a curriculum. And then he went to every medical school in America and said, I will pay you if you adopt this curriculum so that our doctors all have a standard level. Wow. So he created that. And then he created medical research that didn't exist where scientists are in a lab actually studying pathogens

Starting point is 01:52:51 and coming up with, so he spent his whole life, he, at the point that he died, he had probably saved more Americans than any other human being. Bill Gates is Rockefeller. You should watch the doc, Bill's brain on Netflix. Does he seem, he might have autism or something. Does it seem like it maybe?

Starting point is 01:53:10 That seems like he probably has some divergence. My friend said he has it. Yeah. But I'm not qualified to diagnose it, but my guess is he's probably on some spectrum of some neurodivergence. Yeah. Now what is that?

Starting point is 01:53:23 I don't know. Well, and a lot of people are now some of the greatest, it's almost like where we're heading as a species, it's people that have some form of autism are now able to capitulate or something or conceptualize. The next thing that we need as a society or something that the rest of us can't do. It's almost crazy how something that 20 years ago

Starting point is 01:53:43 was considered probably more of a deficit is now considered like if this got enough, a little bit autism, we're not letting him near the counter, you know? Well, I just, my guest I interviewed last Friday, it hasn't aired yet, but she is a neurodivergent expert. She herself is neurodivergent, which was a really interesting interview because I've never really interviewed someone that was just very open about that. What does it mean neurodivergent?

Starting point is 01:54:05 So that could be dyslexia, ADHD, autism, hyperlexia. You know, there's a bunch of things that would, it just means that you're not quote the normal, right, but one in five people in America is neurodivergent. Really? Yeah. 20% of us are I am because I'm dyslexic so I qualify for that But yes, she was saying the things that a lot of neuro divergent people add to a company is like

Starting point is 01:54:37 They don't fall for group thinking When I see what's going on. They're like they don't mind pointing out that no, no, that's actually not right. There's like some helpful disagreeability that they just they don't get along. They don't they've been so on the outside growing up. They're so used to that dynamic of feeling awkward and people not, you know, embracing them that like for them to point out the clear obvious thing in the room is no problem. It's easy for them. Yeah, because they've been sitting there watching the whole time anyway. Top five most valuable thing in the room is no problem. It's easy for them. Yeah. Cause they've been sitting there watching the whole time anyway. Look, top five most valuable companies

Starting point is 01:55:07 in the world right now. Autism. Well, Microsoft, Bill Gates, I don't know. He's probably neurodivergent. Probably 20%. Elon Musk is admittedly autistic. Google, Sergey and the other gentlemen, I don't know. But you know, these are all-

Starting point is 01:55:24 Bezos, definitely. He's coming up a little bit tis'em'd out and then that other guy, what's the last one? It's not Baskin Robbins. What's it like another huge company? Oh, Berkshire Hathaway. Yeah, maybe. Warren Buffett.

Starting point is 01:55:38 Warren Buffett. Now he seems just like kind of old fashioned. Although if you, there's a great doc on him too. Is there? Warren Buffett, yes. I gotta watch some more of more of these man and talk about a dude that's kind of living the way you he's he was forever the richest man in the world. He drives the same 1987 Cherokee that he's always had. He lives in the same 5,000 square foot brick home he bought in Omaha, Nebraska when he and his wife got

Starting point is 01:56:01 married. You're like why does he even, what's the point of having all this money? But he, again, I'm not a fucking doctor. I'm not gonna label him something, but in the doc, he considered his kitchen table and just go through a pile of documents like this. And he's fascinating reading these spreadsheets and doing this analysis. And when his wife left at some point,

Starting point is 01:56:23 she wanted to spend time on the West Coast. She told her neighbor friend, would you check in and make sure he eats because he'll forget to eat. He won't eat. So that woman started coming over and making him dinner. And then she moved in. No way.

Starting point is 01:56:38 And now they're lovers. And then the original wife, everyone was happy. The original wife died of cancer. He was with her a lot. And then he's still with this woman. You're like, this is a cool doc. I mean, who knows what. Wow, that's interesting.

Starting point is 01:56:50 I didn't know that about him. I got to do some more learning, man. Well, you're going to, you have more time than you've probably ever had. Yeah. 18 months. Yeah. We want to get her on. You had her on Brunei Brown.

Starting point is 01:57:02 Oh, yeah. I want to talk to more people that are good about thinking about like navigating like different things like grief, shame, stuff like that. Like I wanna have some other aspects of that, you know? Well Brene Brown, her like knockout punch sentence that stuck with me is guilt is I did something bad, shame is I am something bad. And like that's a great thing to run through my head

Starting point is 01:57:29 when I'm spiraling, like what am I actually feeling right now? Are you afraid you'll like potentially lose some of your audience by going down that road? No, not at all. I think people are curious about stuff, you know, and I'm curious, you know? I think one of the reasons I was so late, I got an antidepressants when I was 20.

Starting point is 01:57:48 And so I didn't realize that that kept so many of my feelings in a fucking cage that, cause one of the, a few years ago I was like, dude, why am I having, I feel like so much more feelings than some other people sometimes. And then I was like, oh, because you've regularly been on that medicine for 17 years. Uh-huh.

Starting point is 01:58:06 You know? Uh-huh. And so you got it. Well, also fucked up, right? Yeah, and it imparted, yeah, or at least like, yeah, not in recovery, not getting to be able to get a little bit of a glimpse of myself, but. What was your preferred substance? Cocaine.

Starting point is 01:58:19 Yeah. Oh, yeah. What a drug. I just had Bateman on last week. Oh, I love him Fascinating to look at he has one of those faces You can tell why he's an actor because it's just the most everything about it is so engaging and interesting Yes, yes, you can just stare at it. Yeah, it's interesting when you're just like he just yeah, just thinking for me Bateman I'll watch take your time to yeah, yeah, but he was a Hoover

Starting point is 01:58:42 admittedly Love he's a party. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so we were talking, admittedly. Love the cocaine. He's a party, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so we were talking and I said, do you ever, do you ever, I said, I'm not gonna do this, but I was directing chips and I was talking to an actor on the movie.

Starting point is 01:58:55 And she said that she and her boyfriend had gone and stayed at Cocaine Hotel in Columbia. And I was like, Cocaine Hotel, what's Cocaine Hotel? And she's like, it's, it's, do you know about the cocaine hotel? It's everywhere. It's on the tables everywhere you go in the rooms, the thing. It's a hotel to do cocaine.

Starting point is 01:59:15 And I said, do you ever, Bateman, do you ever think about just spending a few days down at cocaine? He's like, well, I don't know. I mean, there's so much shit in Coke now. And I said, no, no, I think this is farm to table Coke. I think the guys are stomping on it. Bring it in a dustpan and then dropping it off. I think this is medicinal and pure as a,

Starting point is 01:59:35 well that's what we need in this country. Dude, make Coke great again. Farm to table. We need farm to table cocaine. We do. You got your vegetables. We did that. You got your farm to table vegetables. Now let's- It's sad that a kid can't get some decent cocaine

Starting point is 01:59:49 in this country. I know. It really is. Yeah, you knew you were gonna be huffing some baby laxative and some acetylene or whatever. You knew that, but- But now it's different. Dax, we'll have to catch up again sometime, man.

Starting point is 02:00:01 Yeah, yeah, I would love it. I'd love to have you on ours as well. Yeah, man, I'd love to come on, dude. I appreciate that. We'll take a little break, we'll recharge. We'll get curious about each other again. Think about some things that we could. But Nash, I don't want to have too high hopes.

Starting point is 02:00:14 About Nashville? You know what they say in our program, expectations are resentment under construction. You know that one? Yeah. That's a good one. Do you like it? Yeah, I like that. Expectations are resent know that one. Yeah, that's a good one. Do you like it? Yeah? I like that expectations or resentments under construction. Yeah, but with that said I'm still gonna allow myself to have really huge

Starting point is 02:00:31 Expectations we got to get out on a fucking boat on the lake. Now. That's some fun stuff You can do some barbecue on on a fucking pontoon boat good fishing out there. What else is there cannonballs? People are so nice to it's very nice. It's a small city. It doesn't feel like super big. What side of town do you live? Do you live by Franklin? No, I live like just like right on the out like right on the edge of town of Nashville. There's probably nine minutes from downtown. You don't want to tell anyone? I don't live in Bell Mead. No, I just live in like, um, it's called, what is my name, Oak Hill or something? Okay.

Starting point is 02:01:08 There's not a real hill there, but I think there used to be, but somebody stole it or something. But it's good, I got nice neighbors and I got, but the zoning there is getting a little bit weird. They're just, but it's a city in progress. I love it, I love it. Yeah. I'm excited. I get on there and I'm like, oh yeah, people are still happy to be in this country.

Starting point is 02:01:29 Yeah. Having fun. Yeah. I miss that. Do you miss, was there a reason that you wanted to not, or take a break from acting or not act? Was there like a, were things not as funny as it used to be? Or was there? Yeah. I was on the verge of telling you this thing. I would have not put all this together, but I had this guest on Adam Grant. He's a behavioral psychologist at Wharton. He writes a bunch of shit. He's like a thinker.

Starting point is 02:01:50 We've had him on a few times. And I was, we were talking about, my story was, okay, I spent two and a half years making chips. It came out, it didn't open well. And I was like, fuck, what are we doing now? I thought for sure I'd be writing directing for the next 10 years. That was my identity. I'm a writer director, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, what are we doing now? I thought for sure I'd be writing directing for the next 10 years. That was my identity.

Starting point is 02:02:05 I'm a writer-director, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, what are we doing now? And then I was depressed. And then I started the podcasts in the mists of all that, right? And I was, my story was like, yeah, be flexible. Don't get too set on something. If something shows up, just run at it

Starting point is 02:02:22 and see what happens. And he said, well, do you think these things are so different? And I go, yeah, a podcast and acting and shit? Yeah, I think that's a lot different. And he said, well, what's your favorite part of acting? I was like, hmm. I was like, oh, hanging out at video village

Starting point is 02:02:40 and shooting the shit with the other actors and the directors and the writers. Like, that's my favorite part of Hollywood. It's like all these people have moved from some town, they were on fire and I get to hang with them. Shooting the shit at video village where they watch playback and everything. Yeah, videos where after you do a shot you'll go there and just like look at the shot with the director sometimes. And they'll say you did this and blocked him there. She'll say don't walk over there. whatever it is. I said, that's what I love about acting.

Starting point is 02:03:07 And he said, well, don't you think you've just made video village in your attic? Like don't you just sit here and now actors come over and you do your favorite part of acting, which is like shooting the shit at video village. And I was like, oh damn, I guess that is what happened. I kind of weeded out all the stuff. I didn't want to do wardrobe fittings and auditions

Starting point is 02:03:26 and all this stuff. And now I just get my favorite part, which is like hanging with other creative people and chatting. Yeah, dude, that's cool. Yeah, that's interesting. Cause yeah, sometimes I get, people will talk about, do you want to do this

Starting point is 02:03:38 or want to do that? And sometimes there may be like a, you know, a friend or two you want to do something cool with. But the best thing about it would be that you get to hang out with that friend Yes, yes the other ship was just getting the way of the hang. Yeah, it feels like a nightmare some of it I just want to you know, yeah, I don't want to talk to a second AD about a wardrobe fitting across town for two hours Yeah, I just want to hang with David spade and fucking cut up. Yeah

Starting point is 02:04:00 Dude, I'd love to come on sometime man. Yeah, I appreciate you making time for us today, dude And I know we're kind of all over the place, but we're just come on sometime, man. Yeah, let's do it. I appreciate you making time for us today, dude. And I know we're kind of all over the place, but we're just getting to know each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll do another one that's more cohesive, maybe. I doubt we'll, I bet we'll make that happen. I'm already in my head thinking about 26 stories. I started that I never finished.

Starting point is 02:04:18 Like why didn't buy the house in Michigan? I was gonna buy a lake house, but man, fuck that. Yeah, I can think of a bunch of stuff. I'm sure when I listen back, I'll be like, dude, you should have figured some stuff out, man. All right, well, this is off to a raucous start. Yeah. I can only imagine what's gonna happen in Nashville.

Starting point is 02:04:36 I mean, my Lord. Well, you have a family, I don't. So yeah, I'll probably just be milling around in y'all's yard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but we'll get out on the pontoon with some shotguns and start slinging Skeet. I shot my first shotgun out there. In Nashville.

Starting point is 02:04:50 Yeah, kid rocks out in the backyard. He'll have a bunch of people over sometimes and they had a fucking Skeet thing. He just got shot off the cliff and we were just popping him off. It was cool, but yeah, it's a fun place, man. A lot of, just a lot of nice people there. So, Dax Shepherd, thanks so much, man. A lot of, just a lot of nice people there. So, um, Dak Shepherd, thanks so much, man.

Starting point is 02:05:07 Oh my God. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I appreciate it, bro. Nice to meet you. You too. Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be cornerstone.

Starting point is 02:05:22 But when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind I found I can feel it in my bones But it's gonna take a little

This Past Weekend - E487 Dax Shepard

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