This Past Weekend - E533 Mark Cuban

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Starting point is 00:01:21 Peach, Granite, and Black, that and much more at thetheovonstore.com and we thank you so much for your support. We also have some new tour dates coming up and they are Oklahoma City, North Little Rock, Springfield, Missouri, Kansas City, Missouri, Sioux Falls, South Dakota, La Crosse, and Green Bay, Wisconsin, Moline, Illinois, Colorado Springs, Colorado, Casper, Wyoming, Billings, Missoula, Bloomington, Indiana,

Starting point is 00:01:57 Columbus, Ohio, Champaign, Illinois, Grand Rapids, Lafayette, Louisiana, and Beaumont, Texas. Get all your tickets at theovon.com slash T-O-U-R. And thank you so much for the support. Today's guest is a business mogul. He's an entrepreneur. He's launched some of the biggest companies in the world and owned the Dallas Mavericks along the way,

Starting point is 00:02:23 help leading them to great success. He just retired from his stint on Shark Tank, and I'm very grateful to get to spend time with him. Today's guest is Mr. Mark Cuban. ["Shine That Light On Me"] Good to see you today, Mark. Thanks for having me, Theo. It's a pleasure, man. Thank you so much.

Starting point is 00:03:09 Really, really an honor. No, the honor's mine, man. You've been crushing it. Oh, thanks. Yeah, yeah. We've been really fortunate. We've been working really hard over the past two years, been working really hard. And I think luck has kind of met us along the way, you know?

Starting point is 00:03:22 I'll take luck every time, man. Oh, hell yeah, right? Has luck come, does that come up to play in your business at your level, or do you still think there's a level of luck to it, or what do you kind of? So luck is about scale, right? You know, as an entrepreneur, I think, okay, I can start a business, I can make some money,

Starting point is 00:03:37 you know, I can be okay, right? But if you want to have a B next to your name, you got to have a lot of motherfucking luck, right? So in my case, I started the first streaming company, right. Which would have been cool, but it happened right at the time. The internet stock market was blowing up. If the internet stock market wasn't blowing up at the same time, you'd have no idea who I am.

Starting point is 00:03:56 Oh, you mean because of, so there was a level of luck to it. Oh yeah. So the first streaming company was. It's called audio net. We started in 1995 when nobody knew what streaming was, right? We called it Internet Broadcasting. And so we started out a second bedroom, my house, just a setup just like this, and bought myself a PC and connected it, found a local radio station that I could connect everything

Starting point is 00:04:18 to, went online and I would go and just say, okay, if you want to listen to Dallas sports or news from anywhere in the world, come to this website, audio net.com. And it just blew up. And then we got a video and changed the name to broadcast.com when public in 1998. It was the biggest IPO in the history of the stock market at the time. So that's how you started. This is a loose term. I know you've done other things, but that's how you started to make some money. Yeah, that's when I got, that's when I crushed it. When you win, cause that's when the.com is like, yeah, if they had sandals.com sold for like 20 million. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:51 No, it was insane. Right. It was insane. And so, but we were legit, we were YouTube before YouTube. Right. And so we were the biggest by far. It wasn't even close. And so, um, you know, we were the first to do basketball, football, baseball,

Starting point is 00:05:03 you name it, first ones to stream anything, right? And then went public, great. And then we sold to Yahoo and then Yahoo fucked it up. But that's another story. Oh, Yahoo bought a lot of things that they fucked up. Can we say that? Yeah, you can say that. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:17 Because they made some poor choices. I was working at Yahoo. I was working over there doing interviews with, and they bought, what was the website they bought that for a crazy amount of money, it was blogs, people did blogs on it. Yeah, I mean, they've bought in a bunch, right? And for whatever reason, they could not get it right for anything, man.

Starting point is 00:05:38 I mean, they bought us, they bought all these different companies that at the time were huge. Yeah, GeoCities, that's what it was. They bought that before us. GeoCities was that's what it was. They bought that before us. GeoCities was one, but there was one that, what was the blog website that everybody used? It kind of had a basic template to it.

Starting point is 00:05:51 Mash, no, Tumblr. Oh, Tumblr, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Tumblr was hot, then it went porn, right? Did it go porn? I'm glad I got out. Yeah, it went porn for a little while, and then this dude I know, Matt, bought it. So now he's just trying to make it work.

Starting point is 00:06:09 Oh, trying to refinance it? Yeah. Yeah, because that was a crazy buy that they had. I remember we were working and they were like, you're buying a blog? That just felt like you're headed to the past. And now then they were part of Verizon, then they got bought by Apollo. I don't know what they're doing now. I mean, I still use Yahoo finance, right?

Starting point is 00:06:25 It's not like people don't use it. Yeah. They just haven't been able to get ahead of the game. Yeah. They had some stake in Alibaba to that company. Yeah. And that's where they made some money. Right.

Starting point is 00:06:33 I think that that really kept them, uh, kind of like in the vibe kind of of, or just, yeah, it obviously helped their coffers, but yeah, they made some poor choices, I think, I mean, hell they were paying me. So obviously they were smart move. Right. they were What's my move? Right? Yeah When were you there? I was there like maybe 2010 or something Yeah, cuz I know close 2000. So you were there like 2014 or something. I was there actually who is the CEO when you were there? Do you remember? It was a female CEO

Starting point is 00:07:02 Oh, oh, they had just got her in actually. Yeah, what the fuck was her name? She was cute actually. Yeah. Sorry to say that. I never got a close up look at her. Well, yeah. But yeah, I remember I met her one time

Starting point is 00:07:13 and I wish I'd met her more than one time. That's all I remember. Marissa Meyer, yeah. Marissa Meyer was great. But they had another lady too that was working or that worked kind of over us in the video department. All this ditty stuff going on, man, what do you? I'm sure glad that I didn't hang out with him, right?

Starting point is 00:07:29 You never got in, you never were in his universe. I met him, right, but never went out, right? And actually back in 2003, he reached out to me, to the Mavs, and wanted to design a uniform for us. And I never met him, we did it all via email. And so he had some of his designers get in touch with me and they put together some and it was a cool looking uniform, right? Yeah. We used it for a couple of years, but that was the extent of my connection to Diddy. I never hung out or did anything. And not, and you know, I hung out enough in LA,

Starting point is 00:07:59 but I never really heard stories about the parties or anything like that. That was my scene. Yeah, that's kind of, yeah, I would just hear stuff sometimes. Like I would hear certain things, but it was never anything like, oh, this is exactly what's going on. Right. I mean, you just heard somebody would say some, how do you keep that quiet for so long? You know, all those videos, it's not like people didn't like, I don't care if you take people's phones, right? Someone sneaking into phone, yeah. Like that's happening. Yeah. It's amazing that if they say all the things are true, that he was able to just do that for so long, you know, what, what is a level like, is it scary when people get to a level of wealth that they can kind of have

Starting point is 00:08:36 anything? Like, what are some of that? I don't look at it that way. Right. I'm not saying you do. No, no, I hear you. I'm just curious about it. Yeah. Like what, what are the options? Right. Right. Yeah. Like if you're rich as fuck, what can you do and'm just curious about it. Yeah, like what are the options, right? Right. Like if you're rich as fuck, what can you do and get away with, right? I don't hang out with people like that, right? I always looked at it that

Starting point is 00:08:51 like my high school buddies are still my high school buddies, right? Like the guys, you know, my rugby teammates in Indiana, my Indiana buddies, those are my friends, the guys. I live six guys in a three-bedroom apartment when I moved to Dallas. Those are my friends, right?

Starting point is 00:09:03 So it's not like, okay, I'm getting the butlers, I'm getting the chauffeur. Look at me, right? And I came by myself. I don't give a shit about that. Yeah, no, you seem, yeah. Yeah, I was kind of wondering. I was like, how will he show up?

Starting point is 00:09:14 Will a stork drop him off? Yeah, right? Yeah. How's he going to? But that doesn't mean it hasn't crossed my mind, right? It's just like, you have to be, in order to do shit like Diddy or anybody like that, you have to be so paranoid, right?

Starting point is 00:09:29 You have to try to think of every base to cover, right? And you know, now part of me wishes I had done, because there's too many pictures of me out drunk with my friends and shit like that, right? But I just don't like to live paranoid, right? I just, I mean, I love having a lot of money. It's a whole lot better to be rich than it is to be broke, but I was happy when I was poor. I just was happier when I was rich.

Starting point is 00:09:53 And so I don't get that whole thing of, you know, like just be protective and like play the rich game, right? That's just not my style. Yeah, yeah, that's kind of it. I think play the rich game, like, but do you, like, do you see people like you ever like, cause that's the thing, like people get so much money and then they get power too, or some of them get one or the other, maybe both. But then like, how does that infect people? Do you see that that could, that, that infects some people? Like you ever witnessed it? Yeah. Oh, for

Starting point is 00:10:21 sure. Right. So like people who think because they're rich, they're smarter, that they have more privilege, they can get away with whatever they want. Yeah, particularly in business. So if you talk to somebody that may be richer than me, who will say shit that's just crazy and think, okay, cause I said it, that's what's up. That's, it's right.

Starting point is 00:10:41 Or more likely though, in my experiences, like I'll get invited to these parties, right? That are really nice house and stuff. Right. But there'll be like 50 servants, right? Five people to answer the door, six people that just specialize in toast, right? Just ridiculous shit, right? And all of them like, how do you live like this? You know, because it's bad enough. Like I have too big a house. And so you have to have people there to clean it and stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:11:08 And there's no privacy just with that. And there's people that'll have like 10 people in the house at all times. And I don't see how they live, right? So for some people, maybe it's like showing off. To me, it's just like, why would you live that way? Right, I'm happy to have all this money because I can live the way I want, as opposed to live that way? Right, I'm happy to have all this money because I can live the way I want

Starting point is 00:11:25 as opposed to live the way somebody thinks I should. And I just get the sense to your point that some people get to that level and it's like, okay, this is what I'm supposed to do. Right, I'm supposed to have this type of car, I'm supposed to have this many people working for me at the house, I'm supposed to have this type of porcelain,

Starting point is 00:11:42 you know, china or whatever. Yeah, whatever that is, right? But I am gonna say one of the things I got, I got a heated toilet seat, to have this type of porcelain, you know, China or whatever. Gold toilets. Yeah, whatever that is, right? But I am going to say one of the things I got, I got a heated toilet seat. Yeah. Best thing ever. Really? You never had one?

Starting point is 00:11:53 Dude, I remember when I first got a clean lady to come once a week, I helped her like the first month. I felt horrible. You feel guilty, right? You've got to get a heated toilet seat. That's like... If my... Yeah, I don't want my butt getting used to too many fancy things.

Starting point is 00:12:06 I'm just telling you. Really? I'm just telling you, right? That's the one, huh? That... Oh, I can almost imagine it. Because I go from, you know, when you travel, right? You leave home when you're comfortable.

Starting point is 00:12:14 Yeah. And I went where I'm staying now, right? No heated toilet seat. First thing I noticed, you sit down in the morning and you're like, fuck. You're like, this could be better. This could be better, right? Yeah. I'm paying all this for this room and my butt's cold.

Starting point is 00:12:28 Oh dude. I remember the first night I stayed in a hotel room and it was like $600 or something and I was afraid to even go to sleep. I was like, if I sleep, I'm wasting like $240 dude. Oh my goodness. So I just kept staying up as much as I could. It's I still spend a little money, wasted some of the money sleeping, but it was nice over there.

Starting point is 00:12:48 Yeah, I just, I think it's interesting when people get to level, like you would see it sometimes with the Romans or something, or I don't know, you would see it, but you would hear about it with the Romans, where like they got to levels of wealth and power that they started, that it veers into like a lot of sexual, like, I don't know if

Starting point is 00:13:05 proclivities is the word. Is that a word? Yeah. Like what was it? What does that mean? Proclivity? Yeah. No, you got it right. So like Caligula, right? I saw the movie Caligula. Yeah. That was the movie where it was. Yeah. With all the sex and everything where they hadn't seen everybody was your concubine, right? Male women doesn't matter. Right? Everybody was just fucking everything because they could. Yeah. I think that's something my wife's not going for that shit. Yeah. There weren't a lot. Yeah. Once you put a wife in there, things change. It's over. Yeah. Proclivities, a tendency to choose or do something regularly, a tendency to choose or do something regularly, an inclination of predisposition towards a particular thing. So, oh, so it might activate proclivities in you for something. Yeah, no, like with the Romans, yeah, their proclivities were to fuck around and have

Starting point is 00:13:49 fun, right? Yeah, and it would turn, I think, but a lot of people, they do so much like straight activity then it gets into gay, or you know what I'm saying? Like, the spec, oh yeah, and I don't know what I'm saying either, but I think that's something, I wonder, that's just what I'm asking, I guess. Do you, like, I wonder if that's something that happens when people get so much money and power that they're just, they're banned or they're, what they just wanted, they've already had as much of,

Starting point is 00:14:15 like, regular sound. I wonder if it starts to build on itself. Like, what can I do next, right? What can I do to, what can I get? Yes. Right? What can I get? Like, what else is possible? Yeah, like, not so much with sex, right? Because you're gonna get fucked over by somebody at some point, right?

Starting point is 00:14:28 Well, can you imagine having to keep all of the like trying to just even even if you ever like sin us Like I've been in a really I've cheated in relationships. That's hard enough, you know, just knowing like what's next, right? Yeah, or just knowing like I have to make sure we never go in this area What if this girl like that one thing alone? I can't imagine the level of like paranoia. Yeah, you just, I mean, is it worth it? Yeah. But I mean, look, I'm not going to say that forget not sex necessarily, but just like going out and trying new things, right?

Starting point is 00:14:57 Like I bought a plane, right? I mean, because it's like that to me was the coolest thing after toilet seats, right? To like being able to just pop on a plane, right? Oh, that's a dream. Oh, when I sold my first company, I bought a lifetime pass on American Airlines. So literally I was 29 and I was like, I had this card where I could just go to any airport

Starting point is 00:15:17 that had American Airlines, just show up, me and somebody else and wherever they were flying, they had to put me on a plane. Really? That was insane, yeah. So if that's like proclivities to go try different stuff. That's your version. Yeah, that's me, right?

Starting point is 00:15:28 Yeah. Because look, I mean, I'm the luckiest motherfucker in the world and I don't want to let it pass, right? You know, I want to take advantage of the time I got, but more now it's more family, right? As I've gotten older, my kids have gotten older. It's more like my kids are 15, 18 and 21.

Starting point is 00:15:43 And so it's like, let's spend more time with them because that's the most valuable thing to me. But when I was younger, before I got married, it was like, let's go, go, go, go, go, right? Travel, party, let's see who could throw the biggest parties, right? Who can buy the biggest bottle of champagne, you know, just rent a club, who can run up the biggest bill, right?

Starting point is 00:16:03 Yeah, I was doing that shit. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, I was doing that shit. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, I think that's what I think. Some people, like if you get so, like some people get so powerful or, like there's a lot of gay folks out there. I think that they only veer into that or change, get into different sexual,

Starting point is 00:16:19 like things that are outside of what would be normal for them maybe, that because they get so much be normal for them, maybe that, because they get so much power, you know, like the Romans did it, like, you know, they say that they did it or there's people like financial gaze, power gaze. There's like, um, I haven't heard that before. No financial gaze and power. Yeah. The people that get so rich, they can afford to just be gay for fun. Or like blind gaze. There's even, There's, bring that, people that are blind, they don't care as much if some,

Starting point is 00:16:50 if gay or straight leaves their. I have one guy walk up to me sometimes, goes, I want to suck your dick. This was years ago. I was like, no. He goes, look, let me just tell you something. I'm like, what? He goes, you close your eyes, it all feels the same.

Starting point is 00:17:02 Oh, well, let's, fact is there's someone else. This is an 80s thing, right? I'm like what he goes you close your eyes. It all feels the same Someone else is an 80s thing right? Yeah for sure. Oh, dude, I'm not gay, but I'll hold it in my mouth till a gay guy gets there That's something that you would hear sometimes at church But no, but I I have friends that are blind and they've told me that they lose their sense of like some of their sense of Straightness dissolvesves No, I can see that right. It's not as important. Yeah, because you can't see one way or the other Yeah, I think there's a level of which is kind of fascinating to me that there's different things that there's people that are gay And people that are buying people that that's their that's who they are But then there's some people that I got a question for you. Yeah, I listen to your President Trump interview Yeah, why don't you talk about this shit with him? And there's some people that. Well, I got a question for you. Yeah. I listened to your president Trump interview. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:45 Why didn't you talk about this shit with him? Well, I don't think, I think it was hard to talk about it. Bernie Sanders. I could have. Yeah, but the Romans were gay, right? I don't know. Well, I was just, cause I, I probably should have asked him if people get so powerful, do they then, yeah, just because at that point, anything's an option, you

Starting point is 00:18:04 know, that's all option, you know? That's all I'm saying. I think there's things that lead people like. Like if you want to push limits, right? Right. Pushing limits. That's what I'm thinking. If you think money can buy you anything, right?

Starting point is 00:18:13 And you want to push the limits and think, okay, I got money that gives me power. So I can do whatever I want. That's just going to backfire so hard because if you're not like real, the people that are, you know, you're messing with, right. They ain't going to be real either. And it's just going to be a disaster. Yeah. That's what I'm thinking about with the Diddy thing. I think it's just like at a level of that you can have anything that you get this power. It's just kind of, I mean, it's sad and it's scary to see, you know, I think that's some of the crazy. Yeah. You kind of wonder like when did it click?

Starting point is 00:18:43 When did it like fall over the cliff? Right. When it went from? Okay, let's hang and have some fun Have a good party to win like weird. Yeah, like I'm taking videos of everybody and this and that Yeah, do you think there'll be others people that will come out about this or do you think a lot of that's like myth like internet Mythology, I have no idea. Yeah, I really don't yeah. Yeah Yeah, sorry. It's just like something that's been on kind of the topic of news. Yeah, no, it's an interesting subject, right? Yeah. Cause you wonder like, and I wonder, cause I mean, I've met the guy and I've seen him out one time too, but it's just like, how does it get that far? Yeah. You know, and, and,

Starting point is 00:19:17 and that kind of stuff's addictive too though. Once you do one crazy thing, then that becomes especially if you're trying to up yourself, right? You know, cause I mean you've gone out drinking I've gone out drinking with buddies right I'll have another shot right I have another have another have another and that's what guys do right but if it goes to the wrong direction it could backfire and like it has and the paranoia of having to keep every oh that would be a nightmare man I'm I feel lucky I'm not living that way yeah but you know to me like the telltale sign is,

Starting point is 00:19:45 he fucking hurt people, right? He hit women, right? He dragged that one lady down the hall and all. Yeah, it's obvious. That tells you he's fucked up somewhere, right? I mean, it's one thing to want to party, right? It's another thing to like, okay, I'm throwing a big party, right?

Starting point is 00:19:59 But it's a whole nother thing to physically abuse people. That's just like, yeah, that shit. Yeah, and it's like, how do you not have your people. That's just like, yeah, that shit. Yeah, and it's like, how do you not have your own awareness at that point? But then I think things get, you know, when you get power and you get that much ability, your own sense of self can probably get skewed pretty easy.

Starting point is 00:20:17 Yeah, something's fucked up, obviously. Yeah. What are some of the side effects of being, that people don't see of being very wealthy. Like, are there some negative things about it? I mean, sorry, it's hard to even. You're lucky that I can tell, right? You look so happy. It's hard for me to even.

Starting point is 00:20:33 No, I mean, the side effects, people sue you. Okay. Cause you're the deep pockets. That's a good point, man. I'm friends with John Leotow, Jimmy John. He had the Jimmy John's sandwich company. And he said he, uh, one of the reasons that he sold the company was because he spent most of his time thinning off lawsuits and he wasn't even

Starting point is 00:20:50 able to be like... Yeah, I mean like I've been sued five times my whole life, right? And four of them were because someone's just trying to get money. Wow. That's it. You know, and they'll like name multiple people in the lawsuits, and they'll let the other people off the hook, right? They won't let me off the hook, because I'm the deep pockets. So that's kind of a bummer. Then I bet you have to be a little bit more cautious about things then.

Starting point is 00:21:18 Yeah, for sure. So that's one thing. So one thing people don't realize, you probably have to be extremely cautious. Yeah, and then for your kids, right? Because it's not their life, right? There's just, you know, they inherited us, right? And I mean, it's not necessarily bad,

Starting point is 00:21:32 but it's not necessarily easy either, right? To have somebody who's well known as your dad, to have everybody know you may not be rich yet, but you're going to be, right? You know, and so I know that puts a lot of pressure on my kids and so we have conversations. Yeah, yeah. But at least you're able to communicate with them

Starting point is 00:21:52 about that and have them just be cognizant. You know, like I told all my kids, it's like, look, you fuck up, your friends fuck up, your friends just fucked up and their parents get mad. You fuck up, it's on the front page of the paper because you're my kid. So you've got to be a little bit extra careful. Is it hard to be like, you know, you're a celebrity and, you know, and you may not think of yourself in that way or maybe you do, I don't know, but

Starting point is 00:22:13 no matter what, you're a recognizable person. Was it ever weird with your kids where you felt like, my kids are never going to feel like I'm theirs because I'm'm theirs because I'm also in a way belong to other people. Yeah, all the time, man. All the time. Cause there's times, like my son told me the other day, I'm like, okay, I'll go out and get, no dad, when you're there, everything changes. I just wanted to be normal.

Starting point is 00:22:38 Yeah. Right? And that was breaks my heart, right? Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, it kind of makes sense. But I understand too, right? I understand. Right. And it happens with all my kids, right? Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, that kind of makes sense. But I understand too, right? I understand. Right. And it happens with all my kids, you know, where it's just like, there's a time for dad to be there

Starting point is 00:22:50 and there's a time we don't want dad there, not because we don't want dad there, just because of the attention he's gonna pull. Yeah. Yeah, so that's another side effect of some things that people don't see. Yeah, I'm just curious about it. We were trying to get this therapist

Starting point is 00:23:04 who works mostly with really wealthy people on to talk, to learn more about that, because like, when I was growing up, I always looked at wealthy people like, fuck them, you know, let's bomb them. Let's bomb them. Okay. We didn't have any bombs, but you know, we, we had to have a plan. Okay.

Starting point is 00:23:22 We had no strategy, but we just, we did, we just to have a plan, okay? We had no strategy, but we just, we did, we just keep playing video games. But in the back of your mind, you're playing GTA, right? But we had like, yeah, but it almost gave you an enemy when you were growing up poor. It gave you this like, not an enemy, but it gave you like a, yeah, kind of was an enemy. No, I can relate, right?

Starting point is 00:23:42 It's not like my family had anything, right? My dad did upholstery on cars. Neither one went to college, et cetera. But no, I remember vividly not knowing how I was going to be able to pay for school because I had to pay for my own school. And listening on the radio, it sounds so crazy, listening on the radio about how these prisoners were going to get all the college education they needed, right? And I called into the radio station.

Starting point is 00:24:04 I'm like, I'm 16. I don't have any idea how I'm going to pay for college. And they needed, right? And I called into the radio station. I'm like, I'm 16. I don't have any idea how I'm gonna pay for college and they're paying for prisoners? That's just wrong. Yeah, you're like, so now I gotta commit a crime. Yeah, right? To go, yeah, put me in jail, right?

Starting point is 00:24:16 That's a whole nother conversation. What is something that you admire about each one of your children? Oh, there's so much. There's so much. Yeah, they're different too, right? But as they've gotten older and, you know, becoming real people now and teenagers, they're smart, they're caring, they're funny, they're ambitious in their own way for different things.

Starting point is 00:24:42 You know, the hard part about raising three teenagers is that they do all they can to ignore us, you know? Oh, it's a good point, huh? Yeah, just like, I mean, our family is no different than, you know, any other parents raising three teenagers, basically, right? Because those kids want to have their own identity. They want to become themselves and find out who they are. And, you know, we're trying not to be those hover parents, right?

Starting point is 00:25:00 That are just like, and give them some freedom. Like, I'll go, no, your curfew is this you know told him what time he goes he texts me back. Let me breathe dad Dying right You know not that bad right, but just like yeah, but yeah, it's talk right right. Oh, yeah, let me breathe dad Oh my god. Like he's George Floyd or something. No, not that bad, right? But just like, you know how kids talk, right? Oh yeah, let me breathe, dad. Yeah, because I always give him shit about like,

Starting point is 00:25:32 Gen Alpha, like, talking vernacular, right? Oh yeah, slide twin, like, you don't even know what's going on. Sigma, Ohio, right, sauce, mid. Yeah, they sound like Peyton Manning trying to make audibles at the line. Right, Sigma, Ohio, right, Sauce, Mid. Yeah, they all, they sound like, like Peyton Manning trying to make like audibles at the line. Right, right, right, right, Omaha, Omaha, right?

Starting point is 00:25:50 Sigma, Sigma. Sigma. It really is funny. I'll text him my nephew and I don't even know what he's saying at the time, dude. Oh, it's funny as hell, man. And I'll start talking, trying to talk that way just to fuck with him, right?

Starting point is 00:26:00 And he's like, shut up, dad. Or he just hangs up on me. You try to lean into that. Is there anything that you had before you were wealthy that you wish you could have back? Privacy. Yeah? Yeah, for sure.

Starting point is 00:26:14 I got none. Yeah, I mean, you know now too, right? Yeah, there's times like yesterday I was driving somewhere and I wanted to get out and walk. It's like a cool street in town. And I was like, man, I know if I get out and walk, it'll be fine, but I just know that I will meet a bunch of people.

Starting point is 00:26:27 And then it's like, it'll start to make me nervous or uncomfortable a little. Because you don't know where it goes, yeah. Yeah, you're just like, so I think, yeah, sometimes stuff like that isn't it? I guess that's the biggest thing. Yeah, because like I was walking in Nashville yesterday, isn't that song, right?

Starting point is 00:26:40 Walking in Memphis. Memphis, that's right. Thank God, it's, yeah. Yeah. Nashville's better. I think so too. Memphis is good. But it yeah. Yeah. Nashville is better. I think so too. Memphis is good. But it's, it's all right. Nashville is better.

Starting point is 00:26:48 But I was just walking down the street and I'm hearing, it was dark, right? And I'm here, Cuban, Cuban. And I just keep on walking. Right. It's just like no privacy whatsoever. Yeah. But you know, it could be worse. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:26:59 That's a good point. Yeah. No, there's yeah, I'm not complaining. I'm just curious if they're like, what, like what's one of the biggest things? Um, let me think about where we're at right now. So we've talked about some of how you got started. I'm having fun. This is not like any other interview I've done. So I'm loving it. No, man, cause you're like all over whatever's, you know, stream of consciousness, which is cool. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And this is a conversation too. And I think I like that about you. You make this feel like a conversation. So thanks man. Yeah. Yeah. Why not? Yeah. No.

Starting point is 00:27:26 How do you know like a good business idea when you hear it now? And has that refined over the years from what you used to think might've been a good business idea? Yeah. I mean like when you're just getting started, sometimes what you don't know is good, right? Cause it doesn't hold you back. So now cause I've been doing it, I've started so many businesses, invested in so many, like I know what not to do, but that sometimes keeps me from investing in people

Starting point is 00:27:47 who probably have the biggest upside, right? Because, you know, when I was getting started, I didn't know fuck, right? So it was just like, you just got the run through walls type attitude, right? Founder mode. And now, like, investing, I kind of look for that, but I'm more conservative in how I invest, right?

Starting point is 00:28:06 Because my next dollar isn't gonna change my life. And so it's more like, okay, just competition, can I get it right? Or can I help these people? Or can I help them grow this company? Like Shark Tank, right? It's just like, not all those companies are gonna be big, but if I can help them turn, reach their personal goals,

Starting point is 00:28:23 that's a win. Yeah. Yeah, when it comes to Shark Tank, are you gonna miss doing it? goals, that's a win. Yeah. Yeah. When it comes to Shark Tank, are you going to miss doing it? Yeah, I'll miss it some, right? But again, it goes back to my kids. Like, we shoot two weeks in June, two weeks in September. Just finished, right, my last run. And that's right when my kids are getting out of school,

Starting point is 00:28:38 right, and right when they're going back to school. And their birthdays, right? Yeah, it's like I missed my son's birthday for like the last five years. And like, that's not cool. Yeah. You know? And so now, you know, and plus now, right? Yeah, it's like I missed my son's birthday for like the last five years. Like, that's not cool. Yeah. You know, and so now, you know, and plus now like as teenagers,

Starting point is 00:28:49 they set the schedule, we don't, right? Used to be my wife and I'd be like, okay, we're going here, here, here, when dad's done with Shark Tank. Now they're like, no, like my daughter, you know, is a rower, she's going to rowing camp, right? My oldest daughter's going, you know, on an internship, right? My youngest son is going to basketball camp. Right.

Starting point is 00:29:05 And so like they're setting the schedule and I want to be, I have to be available. I can't make them be available. Oh, that's a good point. Huh? Yeah. Because when you're there a little younger, you kind of get to set the stage. Control everything. Right. There's just little plebes. Right. Yeah. And now, yeah. Now they're the ones that you really get to choose what's going on. How would you rank rate the sharks out there? Put the sharks in order for me. Oh, you put me in a bad spot, huh? They're all tied for last, right?

Starting point is 00:29:29 They're all tied for last. No, it's fun, right? I mean, all of them have their own thing. Like Barbara's probably my favorite simply because she can tell what a person's about. Like she'll just say to somebody, you're lying, right? Or you're dishonest, I don't trust you. And she'll be right, you know?

Starting point is 00:29:44 And she doesn't, can't do math, like Mark, what's eight times eight? And I'll, you're lying, right? Or you're dishonest, I don't trust you. And she'll be right, you know? And she doesn't, can't do math, like, Mark, what's eight times eight? And I'll have to tell her, right? But she has great people skills. You know, Kevin's Kevin, he's kind of the bad guy of the group. Robert, you know, is into pets and kids and stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:29:58 Laurie is into consumer products group. Damon is the people shark, right? He's trying to help, you know, smaller businesses grow. And people shark, right? He's trying to help smaller businesses grow. And then me, right? And I just try to fuck with all of them and just have fun. I wore mine the other night. They were comfortable, they were sleek, and they were just, oh, they felt good on my body.

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Starting point is 00:33:07 When it comes to business, how do you know? Yeah, I wonder if I'm trying to think if I would have had an idea on Shark Tank, what I would have taken in there. Well, what made you decide to get into the podcasting rule? I went on Joe Rogan. Well, I had done some podcasting and one day I went on Joe Rogan's show and on his, we just talked more as a long talk. And I was like, Oh, maybe I could just do it by myself. And so then I think I always wanted to have my own voice. And so then I just started in my kitchen and I say that a lot, but I literally took my kitchen to my dinner table and just made it where the studio was.

Starting point is 00:33:44 And that became the studio. So then I have to eat in the living room and stuff, but it was still like, that's cool. Yeah, it was cool. And then, yeah, I think having my own voice, like I always felt like I didn't have a voice, I think when I was a kid. And so, well, what, so, but then there's a business to it, right? So, oh, well then the business, how did you deal with it? Yeah. How'd you deal with the business side? Right? Well, one day a guy who sold pizzas in Santa Monica, my friend Thomas, he said, he emailed me, he wasn't a friend at the time, he emailed me and he said, hey man, I wanna start.

Starting point is 00:34:16 Just a cold email? Yeah, I wanna give you like $500 a month for advertisement and you need to get a studio. And I was like, well, I want to keep that 500 bucks. I don't want a studio. That's cool. Yeah. But then he's like, no, you don't see it.

Starting point is 00:34:30 He said, if you can do this next step and use that 500 bucks to get your studio, then you're, it's going to do better. And that was something that's really been a blessing because I don't, my mindset was just different, you know, I had a more scarcity mindset and right, right. Because you needed the $500, right? As opposed to growing the business. I'd rather have it in my bank account. Yeah, then use it as an investment. Yes, use it as an investment. And then once we did the first studio and then that kind of evolved from there. And you just kept on growing it on your own or did you bring in people to do the sales or? Yeah, we had an advertising company that stole from us for two years.

Starting point is 00:35:07 What? That was horrible, yeah. We lost like, I mean, we probably had over two years, I don't even know, it was at least 400 grand that got taken. Fuck! I know. It was a-

Starting point is 00:35:18 But you learned a fucking lesson that way, don't you? Yeah, I learned- So, you know, we're similar, right? So, how did the pizza dude get your email? Oh, I'm not sure oh because we would put it We would put a contact number in case somebody wanted to reach out about something from the show Oh you did and because like I've done bunch of deals from people just cold emailing me. Yeah, like I did I gave this company this dudes out of on Dallas. I'm Tim Ellis and his buddies. Um, they said they wanted to start a space company I'm like, I don't know shit about space, but I'll get you started and see what happens, right now

Starting point is 00:35:44 It's called relativity space and still never met him, I don't know shit about space, but I'll get you started and see what happens, right? Now it's called Relativity Space. I still never met them, right? It was all email. Never met them. Now I've invested a few million. They're worth $4 billion. No way. Yeah, Relativity Space.

Starting point is 00:35:53 And they're space guys? Yeah, these guys. Yeah, that's Tim, right? I'm an ex Blue Origin intern, got a $500 check from RQB to build a major SpaceX rival. Wow. Yeah, we're coming for you, Elon. Yeah, I know.

Starting point is 00:36:03 So what their deal is they build the rockets out of using 3D printers. So you just, coming for you, Elon. Oh, I know. So what their deal is they build rockets out of using 3D printers. So you just, brrr. No way. Yeah, it's really cool, right? And to their credit, right? It's not like I helped them get there. Guys were just insanely smart and good, right?

Starting point is 00:36:16 So I got lucky, you know? Right, like helping them have some capital. Yeah, I just got them started, right? Like Tim the pizza guy did for you, right? Or Tom the pizza guy, right? Yeah, Thomas. Yeah, and so sometimes just making yourself available opens a lot of doors. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:36:30 Right? And it's helped me a ton. Yeah. Who are your mentors? And then how do you differentiate between listening to mentors and trusting your instincts, kind of? I never had a mentor. Really? Not a mentor guy at all. I always wanted to try to figure out myself. I've always been like super curious, like just somebody who loves to learn.

Starting point is 00:36:49 Yeah. And so, I mean, you know, when I was getting into computers, I was reading the stupid computer manuals, right? Software manuals, hardware, I would sit there and read that shit, right? And then I would try it and try it and learn and learn and learn. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:37:01 And then once you get started, you realize whether it's business, software, whatever, once you get that base, just it's like learning the podcasting business, right? Once you get that base of the basics you're supposed to do, coming up with new shit isn't that hard, right? It's just about your creativity. And so I was always just, I'm going to learn it myself. Learn it myself.

Starting point is 00:37:17 Never had a mentor. And then people are like, will you be my mentor? I'm like, I'm still going, right? I don't have time to be someone else's mentor. Maybe that's not fair, but that's where I'm at. But not if you're still going, you know? I mean, right now you're mentoring your family. You've already said that you've chosen

Starting point is 00:37:30 to take that extra time. That's more important. It is, especially now. If I can get them to listen. Yeah, it's crazy, dude, how your own kids, why, Mark, you've been in the kitchen. It's insane. And they're like, let me breathe, Mark.

Starting point is 00:37:44 I feel like, you want me to help you with this business idea or your project at school? No, no. What am I, dad? I'm not going to say which one. Just like rips on me too. You don't know anything about business, dad. I'm like, okay. It's crazy that no matter who you are, you're still just dad.

Starting point is 00:38:03 You're just dad, which the best word in the entire English language, dad, right? When your kids just say, hey, dad, that makes me melt. Does it really? Oh my god. It's the best thing ever, ever, ever, ever. The best, one of the best parts about having kids, right? Just through yours, right?

Starting point is 00:38:19 Yeah. Was you and your dad had a pretty good relationship? Yeah, yeah, we did. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's funny because my dad was like, I don't know what the fuck you're doing, but keep on doing it. And I remember the time I told him

Starting point is 00:38:32 that I had $100,000 in the bank, and he never made more than 40 grand in his life. And he just started crying. Wow. And just taking him places and then telling him and my mom they can just go wherever they want, whenever they want and do whatever. Cool, huh?

Starting point is 00:38:46 Yeah, that mean, yeah. Made you feel good? Oh yeah, fuck yeah, right? I mean, all they did with my dad, up six o'clock every morning of work at 7 a.m., come home at six. Hard worker. Oh, fuck yeah, lost an eye in an accident. So like if you had a- Damn, one-eyed worker.

Starting point is 00:39:00 One-eyed worker, right? God damn, dude. So already. Behind the eight ball, right? Yeah, yeah. Like you do upholstery in cars. Behind the eyeball. Right, yeah. Oh, it's so worker, right? So already. Behind the eight ball, right? Like you do upholstery in cars. Behind the eyeball. Right? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:39:08 Oh, it's so gross, right? So he was like, when the first time. My dad lost a finger, dude. Did he really? Yeah, I just remember that. You just remember that. Yeah, dude, it made us scared. Oh my god, yeah, that's my dad.

Starting point is 00:39:19 And is this when he had both eyes or one eye? Well, no, he had one eye, right? This is when he had one eye. He lost it when I was like 11. And you can see they're not quite the same, right? And so he had both eyes or one eye? Well, no, he had one eye, right? This is when he had one eye. He lost it when I was like 11. And you can see they're not quite the same, right? And so he had a glass eye and he used to freak out my friends. He'd take out the glass eye

Starting point is 00:39:32 and it would be like literally look like apricot jelly behind there. It was so disgusting. That's wicked, bro. Dude, that's so cool. Yeah, my dad, yeah, I don't know what he was missing a thing, oh, somebody slammed the door on it, I guess when he was a child.

Starting point is 00:39:45 Oh, that's funny. So how'd your dad lose it? Any way cool? No, it wasn't cool at all. They did upholstery on car seats and cars, and he was putting a staple gun, right, where you staple down the upholstery, and the staple broke, and he didn't have glasses on. He hit him in the eye.

Starting point is 00:39:59 Yeah, it was not. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, and it was tough. Yeah, but he's a fighter. That's wild. Is your father still alive Um, yeah, but he, he's a fighter. That's wild. Is your father still alive? No, both my parents died a few years ago. Oh, I'm sorry. Was it, um, was it tough to have so much control and power? Like, you know,

Starting point is 00:40:14 you have ability to affect a lot of things. Was that a tough thing to manage? Like when your parents passed away? I'm sure it is for anybody. Yeah. I mean, my dad was 92 and my mom was 85. So I had good runs, right? But yeah, it's still tough, right? And you know, you expect it because my dad had struggled for a while. My mom got cancer. And my mom's so insane, right? Like, we'll get you treatment, right? We'll do this. We'll do that, right? She goes, I just want some pot gummies. That's all she wanted. She was, you know, just give me the gummies. All I care want some pot gummies. That's all she wanted. She goes, just give me the gummies.

Starting point is 00:40:46 All I care about is the gummies. And my brother Jeff would have to go find gummies in Pittsburgh, right? It was hysterical. Come on, mom, we can help you. I don't care. Well, you can find some over in Shelly Park. Right, Shelly Park.

Starting point is 00:40:57 How do you know Pittsburgh? Oh dude, I got pink eye over there. The first time I ever had pink eye, I got it in Pittsburgh. You get pink eye a lot? No, only had it probably three times. Oh, that's a lot though. But somebody goes, somebody in Pittsburgh said, Oh, you got some Dine Time and you're up time. Dine Time, right? Yeah. You go Dine Time and hang out the side side.

Starting point is 00:41:17 They said, you got some Dine Time and you're up time. And I was like, that's pink eye, dude. Yeah, Pittsburgh accents are the worst. Oh, the worst and the best, dude. You'd see like some lady like, just wearing a frickin' Jerry Olshansky jersey or something. Just like, it just, Pittsburgh's. So the best is when you see some really hot,

Starting point is 00:41:36 so like I obviously don't have a Pittsburgh accent, right? And you see a really, really hot girl in Pittsburgh and she'd be like, yeah, you going down town, hang out in Southside. I'm like. Thanks, thanks, thanks. Dang, dang, you're going down town. Hang out in South side. I'm like, what's the car? Yeah. Oh my God.

Starting point is 00:41:48 Pittsburgh, there's no place like Pittsburgh. I love it. Right. It's, it's, it's got a lot better from when I was a kid. A lot better. One of the best places there's that movie. Um, what's that movie where there's a big wedding in the beginning of it. Is that deer hunter?

Starting point is 00:42:01 No. Is that? Yeah. Deer hunter was filmed in Pittsburgh. Yeah. And it's all filmed right there. Pittsburgh, if it didn't, and with the, the landscape, it. Is that deer hunter? No. Yeah, deer hunter was filmed in Pittsburgh. Yeah. And it's all filmed right there. Pittsburgh, if it didn't, and with the landscape, it's one of the more beautiful cities.

Starting point is 00:42:10 It doesn't get enough credit because the winters are pretty harsh. I think. Brutal, brutal, right? But you go to Mount Washington and you go to Lamont restaurant. Yeah. And you just see it like just, you know, driving through the tunnels and you see, um, you see point park and you see the three rivers. It's beautiful. And they've cleaned it up a lot since I was a kid.

Starting point is 00:42:28 It is really a vibrant town. I love it there. It's a tech town. Yeah, I love it. My friend used to work at Jack's Bar on the South side. Another friend of mine was a mascot over there. A mascot? Yeah, I think he was a Pittsburgh pirate for awhile.

Starting point is 00:42:41 That's cool. That's cool. I used to work as a bartender. WDVE, is that the station there? No, what is it? WDVE. Yeah. That's cool. That's cool. I used to work as a bartender. WDVE, is that the station there? No, what is it? WDVE? Yeah. Yeah. That's funny as hell. Yeah. Yeah, man. I really have a, I love that place.

Starting point is 00:42:52 It's good people. You worked where there, you said? Yeah, I worked at a bar called Chance's R and in Oakland. And that was my summer job when I was in college. In Oakland is the kind of the downtown area? No, Oakland is where the University of Pittsburgh is. Okay, bet. They're playing pretty good this year. They had a good win the other day. When I was in college in Oakland is the kind of the downtown area? No, Oakland is where the University of Pittsburgh is okay bet

Starting point is 00:43:07 They're playing pretty good this year. They had a good win the other day. Um You mentioned Elon a little bit ago. I know you guys have you guys have like If it's a feud, what is it? You think it almost seems romantic a little bit? Yeah, I just like to fuck with them Yeah, right. I mean, yeah because it's like it loves being on Twitter too. Oh, it's his thing right point. Yes I just paid 40 something billion Better hang out. It's like why do I go on Twitter too. Oh, it's his thing, right? Yeah. I guess if I just paid 40 something billion. Yeah, you'd say 44 billion, you better hang out. It's like, why do I go to the Mavs games, right? You know, but yeah, I don't, I don't dislike Elon, but he says some stupid shit.

Starting point is 00:43:35 And it's just like, I have no problem calling him out. Yeah. And he's, he's thin skinned, right? And so like, I'll tell you my one little Elon story, right? So I got, I didn't get to know him, but I was, helped him with something, or tried to help him. And so I had his number,

Starting point is 00:43:51 and I texted him a couple times. Like he had a kid, and I'm like, congrats on your 97th kid. And he texted me back, Mars needs kids, right? Mars needs people. And I'm like, that's funny as shit, right? And so one day I had a Tesla, and I said something about it,

Starting point is 00:44:04 and he just sends me a text with the article saying, fuck you, that's it, just fuck you. And I was like, okay, I mean, it was the truth, right? Fuck you. I'm like, okay, so that's- A text with the article that what? That I said something that wasn't completely, totally positive about Tesla.

Starting point is 00:44:20 Oh, I see what you're saying. Okay, so that's what the article was about. Right, so it was just like, fuck you. I'm like, okay. And then it was nothing, you know, no big deal. I don't care one way or the other. And then we buy his Twitter, right? And then he starts getting real political, right? And so not a lot of people are going to stand up to him and I'm like, fucking I don't care, right? So he's called me racist. He's called me, you know, poop emoji multiple times. He calls me all these names. And so like That to me that just gives me license to fuck with them even more, right?

Starting point is 00:44:49 I don't care if he calls me names. I don't give a shit what he thinks, right? But it's still fun, right? You know just to hit him with the LOLs or whatever Yeah, cuz at that point you're just kind of having a good time and Twitter is a strange place where you can just kind of say Whatever it kind of exists. It kind of doesn't the news like Twitter's a, it's a just such a bizarre place. I wish they would take a lot of the pornography off of there. Hardcore, right. How'd they get away with all that shit?

Starting point is 00:45:14 Because you only have to be 13 to go on there, right? Yeah. You know, you talked about some of the shit we were talking earlier. That's where the shit just shows up in your face all the time. Yeah. Oh yeah. That kind of stuff is, I think, yeah, I wish it that we didn't have that. Um, and yeah, and I think, yeah, and he's, yeah, he's always

Starting point is 00:45:32 on there, but yeah, I think he, and he might still be high off the fact that he bought it, you know, that he owns it. Look, you gotta give him tons of credit, right? Yeah. SpaceX, you know, Starlink, Tesla, the shit, dudes like the entrepreneur of our generation, right? There's like nobody close, you know, at least in the two thousands, right? And so I have total respect for him as an entrepreneur,

Starting point is 00:45:52 but his skin is so thin, how can you not fuck with him? Yeah. Right? Yeah, I think, well, yeah, I mean, it's, I think it's, I mean, Twitter is definitely a place where, is it real, is it not real? You know, I don't know. It's always been interesting. Um, I feel I kind of, I was happy that he bought it though.

Starting point is 00:46:10 I mean, I feel like he kind of rescued it because I feel like a lot of, a lot of like the mainstream media and like the social media platforms, they seem all pretty left leaning, right? Used to be for sure. Right. But now like the biggest platforms are Fox News, Daily Wire, the big names like name the big left leaning anchors or whatever. Who are the, who are the most left leaning big celebrities in media today? Well, I guess you probably have like Don Lemon, I guess.

Starting point is 00:46:43 He got fired. He did? Yeah, he got fired from CNN. He's gone, right? He ain't got shit going on. Oh, damn. Um, when life gives you Don Lemon, let him go. Right? But you get the point, right?

Starting point is 00:46:57 I don't know. There's no big names. I think, but CNN, I think a lot of the mainstream media has been notoriously kind of left leaning. I think it seems like they're anti. I mean, especially like during the first time that Trump was running, like the only people that even the late night hosts would make fun of were basically like kind of poor whites.

Starting point is 00:47:14 It seemed like for sure that was wrong. It got like, if you were like conservative or Christian, I feel like those people get the brunt of shit a lot of times. Yeah. I'm not going to argue with that. Right. But I guess my point is in 2016, it was different, right? TV was still up here, right?

Starting point is 00:47:30 Getting 9, 10 million viewers a night for a TV show was OK, right? And so whoever was on the news then or CNN, they were getting millions of people. Now the only platforms getting a lot of viewers are like Fox News is the biggest. MSNBC gets some, like a Rachel Maddow, you could say. Now, the only platforms getting a lot of viewers are like Fox News is the biggest. MSNBC gets some, like a Rachel Maddow, you could say. But for every Rachel Maddow, there's Sean Hannity, there's Laura Ingraham, there's all the hosts. And then you've got Ben Shapiro's, you've got all these right wing, the Tucker Carlson's.

Starting point is 00:48:00 And so the bigger stars now and the bigger media presence is on the right. And so I think what's happened on Twitter now, since Elon has pushed it to the right, I think it's kind of flip-flopped, right? In 2016, if you went on and talked about Trump positively, you would get shit on. Oh, you couldn't say anything. If you were even a conservative, you couldn't even ask a question. Right. You would get shit on, right?

Starting point is 00:48:21 It was very scary. Right. So it was left-leading. But now it's the exact opposite. Right? If when I say stuff about Harris, you can just look at my, my references, my replies, and I'm just getting destroyed. I'm a communist. You're a fucking Jew. Go back to hell.

Starting point is 00:48:35 This is this, this is that. Jews aren't from hell. That's crazy, dude. No, but that's what they know. It's all crazy. At least look at the history. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, look at a map.

Starting point is 00:48:41 No, it's insane. The anti-Semitism on that place. Maybe it's just pointed at me, right? But I know Ben Shapiro, I looked in his replies because I'm saying? Like, you know, look at a map. No, it was insane. The anti-Semitism on that place. Maybe it's just pointed at me, right? But I know Ben Shapiro, I looked in his replies because I'm just curious, right? So point being that I think it's flip-flopped. You do. Yeah, and I think now, I mean, look,

Starting point is 00:48:55 you had President Trump on here coming on here saying his piece, right? And we would have Kamala on. Yeah, I'm sure. I'll put in a good word for you too. Yeah? You know, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think it would just be interesting to talk to her.

Starting point is 00:49:05 No, she's smart. She's fun, she's easy going, right? Laughs a lot, but you know, she's chill. But I think the whole thing is just flip-flopped. And I think it's harder on Twitter in particular, it's harder to be in support of Harris. Like I'm not a liberal, right? I mean, socially I probably am,

Starting point is 00:49:22 physically I'm conservative and I'm an independent, I don't belong to either party, I don't give a shit about either party. You know, I'm a Harris fan because I'm not, you know, I like her policies, I've had some influence in her policies and I'm not a Trump fan at all. Used to be, but they kind of grew out of it.

Starting point is 00:49:36 Have you, yeah, what do you think made you grow, like that's an interesting term, like grew out of it. You know, I would, once I came out saying I Mm-hmm, right? Oh you you had come out I said yeah I said it was the best thing that happened to politics because he wasn't a typical candidate now I didn't think he had a fight. That's how I felt Yeah, cuz I would have elected a fucking doughnut in there. Yeah, if it wasn't a politician exactly right? That's like one of my buddies in Texas. I'm like why you voting for Trump?

Starting point is 00:50:01 He goes mark. I've been voting for politicians my entire life. You know what they've done for me? Nothing. You know the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again, right? So I'm like, okay, Dan, I get that, right? But as I would talk to him, and it's funny because in my memory, things that came up, right, just this morning, I was looking at it

Starting point is 00:50:19 and it was like, he sent me a text. I'd done a CNN interview. Who, Donald? Yeah, Donald sent, well, what he would do is he would write it, and then somebody would scan it, and then they'd email it to me. And so he sent me, what happened? Because he saw a CNN interview where I criticized him.

Starting point is 00:50:34 And I literally, I told him, I'm like, you've got to start learning the issues, right? You can't just talk. You know, at some point, all these things are important. And if you're going to be president, and you've got a chance to win, then you've got to learn this stuff. And I just never felt he made an effort to learn anything,

Starting point is 00:50:51 not just that, but anything, right? And so whenever you try to get into a conversation about details, it never worked. Now, all that said, even though I don't think he'd make a good president, I don't think he was a good president before, when he did become president, when he asked me to come help during COVID, right?

Starting point is 00:51:07 When he asked me to help about healthcare, I showed up. Yeah. Right? Because country over party, right? And I would do it again if he wins, but I hope he doesn't. Yeah. Have you donated to the Amherst campaign? No, I haven't given money to any candidate pack, anything politics related to either party since 2001.

Starting point is 00:51:27 And that was like, I don't even know, to Zoe Lofgren, I don't remember why I gave her money, right? That's when I had broadcast.com. So, I kind of make a point not to give money, so that either you, if I talk to you, either you like my ideas or you don't. And it's not about me buying, you know, your interest. It's a new day. How can you make the most of it with your membership rewards points?

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Starting point is 00:54:47 That's betterhelp.com slash Theo. Do you feel like whoever gets in to be president that they actually are do, do they just spend their time paying back lobbyists? Like it just feels like we're so far away from the days of like maybe Ronald Reagan or I'm trying to think of somebody else like George, no Gerald Ford. I don't know. It just seems like we've like we've just become this American to me feels like this kind of shell company. Right. For bigger.

Starting point is 00:55:21 Bigger. See, I think there's some of that. I mean in a negative way. No, I know what you're saying. I still believe in like the beliefs of our country. Yeah, me too. But it just feels like the lobbyists control so much, it's like does the president even matter anymore? You know, it's a great point because some of the issues

Starting point is 00:55:38 are so complicated, they can't learn all of them, right? Of course, yeah. Like whatever it is, right? But at the same time, I think, I think what a lot of people are missing is that everybody, all politicians learn from Donald Trump and how he won because- Oh, they did, you think? Yeah, oh, for sure. Right. I see it in the Harris campaign. I see it in Kamala Harris, right? You know, Donald Trump took over the Republican Party.

Starting point is 00:56:03 It was no longer the Republican Party, right? That's a great point. I never even thought about that. He took over, right? It's like whatever he wants, he didn't want to debate in the Republican primary. So be it, right? They let him not debate, right? You know, who knows what would happen against Vak or Nikki Haley or whatever it might have been. Oh, that's right. They didn't have to debate this year, huh? No, they wanted to. The other ones did. He just didn't participate. And so he just didn't step up and say, OK,

Starting point is 00:56:28 I'm going to kick your ass. I'm happy to debate anybody. He said, no, I'm not going to debate. His choice, but the point being, he controls the Republican Party. I think that's what's happening with the Democrats. Yeah, that wasn't super Democratic, probably. Yeah, no, it was.

Starting point is 00:56:40 But it's his choice, right? The Republican Party is a private entity. He gets to do the way. And he runs it, right? But isn't there an overall body that would say that you guys have to have this? Nobody. The Republicans get to pick their candidate

Starting point is 00:56:53 the way they want to, and the Democrats get to pick their candidate the way they want to. So all this shit about, well, I mean, Kamala Harris didn't get a single vote, right? Don't matter, right? And tell you what kind of dweeb I am, right? And nerd, like I literally looked up the bylaws of the Democratic National Convention

Starting point is 00:57:11 and the Republican National Convention. And they both say, we basically, in a nutshell, we get to pick the candidates the way we want to pick the candidates, period, end of story. Wow, so E, so, because kind of on both sides, it seems like that Kamala and Donald have just been put in. Right. So neither one of them kind of practice like, but it don't matter.

Starting point is 00:57:31 Right. What do they care about power to your point earlier, right? What's the democratic party want power. What's the Republican party want power. Now who's in charge of those, each of those businesses, the parties, Donald's in charge. And the thing I was saying about learning from Donald, now Kamala's like, I'm taking over the Democratic Party.

Starting point is 00:57:49 Right? I see what you're saying. Right, so it used to be like in 2016, people thought, well, you know, all the traditional Republicans, the Mitt Romneys, or whoever, they're really gonna run the show. And Donald was like, fuck that, right, I'm doing it my own way.

Starting point is 00:58:02 Right, and so, Niki, Kamala has learned all that stuff now, and she's doing it the same way. So she's not like, okay, this right? I'm doing it my own way, right? And so, Kamala has learned all that stuff now and she's doing it the same way. So she's not like, okay, this is what Bernie wants, she doesn't give a fuck what Bernie wants, this is what Elizabeth Warren wants, she doesn't give a fuck what Elizabeth Warren wants, she wants to know what's best for the country, and so then are people like, well,

Starting point is 00:58:18 why was she not this way in California? Because running California, being a senator in California is a completely different job than trying to be the president. Just like in California, is a completely different job than trying to be the president. You know, just like running real estate is a completely different job than trying to be the president. So I think she's trying to come to center because, and she's trying to be the exact opposite of Trump,

Starting point is 00:58:35 but she has captured the Democratic Party. Like when I talk to them, it's not like, okay, this is what the Democrats want. It's like, okay, what's best for the country and how do we implement that? And how do we convey that so she can win? Now, some people might argue Bernie Sanders really is pulling strings, but he ain't, right? Just like- He didn't seem like that when I spoke with him. He seemed like, I didn't even know how vested he was in her being the candidate.

Starting point is 00:59:00 You know? No, he's not, right? That's the whole point, right? Yeah, he seemed like, you know- Whatever, right? Because she's in the center. So you're saying you believe that she's doing her own thing. She's definitely doing her own thing. Like she, like she says, here's my core values, right? I want, I want taxes to be fair. I want to, you know, lower taxes for the middle class, right? I want to bring people up and make sure that they have opportunities. right? I want to try to do what I can to continue to reduce inflation and costs. You know, and I don't want to be negative, you know,

Starting point is 00:59:30 whereas Donald is negative a lot, right? And so you hear talking about joyous and uplifting and all that stuff. Oh, I see, I see. Right? Because that's, and I agree with this, that's what's going to bring people together. You can't say, I hate Taylor Swift, right?

Starting point is 00:59:44 And say, I'm bringing people together. Right. You can't say, I hate Taylor Swift, right, and say I'm bringing people together. You can't say all the Haitians are bad, right, legal or illegal, right, and throw all the legal immigrants under the bus like he's done. And you haven't heard her criticized, like Hillary Clinton fucked up, right, because you nailed it, right? She was talking shit, the deplorables and all that,

Starting point is 01:00:01 they're stupid for, that's not Kamala at all. She's like, all right, we're going to bring people together. I'm going to be joyous. I'm going to be uplifting. Right. See that now I understand a little bit more of her campaign then, but do you think it's weird that she doesn't do a lot of interviews and stuff that she doesn't get out there? That's a great question. Okay. So when she came in, right. And got nominated, because you kind of don't know who she is. That like you hear you see so then you start to just believe clips because it seems like you don't get a breadth so let's so now that comes down this great question right so because i asked the same question here's what

Starting point is 01:00:34 they said to me they go mark there's probably one percent of the electric electric of the electorate is high information who was so it's electorate say what it is yeah so one percent of the electorate is high information. So electorate say what it is? Yeah, so 1% of the electorate, people who are voting. OK, so 1% of people who are voting. Are high information. So people are going to go really look in depth. Like you and I might, right? Wow.

Starting point is 01:00:53 Right? 99%, they don't really know her. And so if you look, when she came in, she had horrible approval ratings. She had horrible favorability ratings. People didn't know who she is. And so what she's doing, she's taking a page from the Trump playbook. What did Trump do in 2016?

Starting point is 01:01:08 He did all those rallies all the time in front of 10, 15, 20. That's exactly what she's doing, right? She's going everywhere and doing rally because that's how you get the maximum number of people without having anybody interpret it for her, like media might do. But the reason she keeps on doing it, it's working.

Starting point is 01:01:28 She went from having really bad favorabilities, no one knew, to the exact opposite. She went from being further behind than Biden, because people didn't know, to actually potentially at least break even if not leading in some cases. It's working. So why doesn't she just turn around? And she's done some friendly interviews like Oprah and the National Association of Black Journalists, and she'll continue to do some stuff,

Starting point is 01:01:48 but you do what works, right? Yeah, I guess. I mean, I think, yeah, I mean, I just wish to, yeah, it feels like you'd want to get to know her a little bit better, you know, just to learn a little bit more about her, I guess. Well, what do you want to know about her? That's a good question.

Starting point is 01:02:01 I guess for me, I always want to know what somebody's really like, you know, and at least get an, like, so just to try to get an idea of that. And then also you, like, I think I can understand why a lot of people vote for Trump, you know, because, you know, he's had a history of being involved in a lot of shady business, right? And that's why they vote for him? Well, because America has become what it feels

Starting point is 01:02:26 like to a regular person. It feels like I am just a peon in a bigger shady business. It feels like. That's interesting. That's really, really interesting. Yeah. So then it feels like, yeah, our water's dirty. Our kids have it. Parents are boiling their own water now at home because they feel like that water's not safe and it's causing kids to have autism. Our drugs, people have to spend all their money on drugs. Like, one of the-

Starting point is 01:03:00 Well, I'm fixing that. So I'll get to that. We'll get to that. But like, yeah, one of the largest causes of bankruptcy is medical debt in this country. There's a huge shell game insurance scam going on. It's horrible. It's worse than you think. Between hospitals and insurance providers and, um, and big business. It's just-

Starting point is 01:03:17 But just look at that, right? Those shady things you mentioned, he tried to fix, like I literally went to the white house to talk about healthcare and the shit I'm doing. And he wanted to talk about healthcare and the shit I'm doing, and he wanted to talk about how we saved $35 billion on Boeing aircrafts. Couldn't have a conversation about it at all. Yeah, and maybe some of that stuff is evolving with him.

Starting point is 01:03:36 I don't know, you know, I don't, but I think my point was that it's gotten to the point where you'll, everything seems like such a shady business that I want somebody in there. No, I want somebody in there who can do shady business. Well, that is the guy who does shady business. Well, but that's, but I think that's how a lot of people think.

Starting point is 01:03:57 Like this whole thing is fucking me so much that at least- He's my criminal. He's my criminal. If he is a criminal, if he is a criminal, he's my criminal. he's my criminal. Let me, he's my criminal. He is a criminal. He's my criminal. He's my criminal. Right. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:04:09 Or, but yeah, because they feel like this other thing is such a, it's so mobster that you need a mobster. That's what I'm saying. I mean, that's the best description or reason I've heard of anybody wanting to vote for Donald Trump, literally the best, right? Because you're right. Right. If everything is that shady, then, and he mean he's ripped off I can't even tell you how many people right people I know right that he's ripped off

Starting point is 01:04:32 We've been just being a lot of alleged issues with no I'm telling you about yeah I'm telling you people I know right he like Barbara Carcron She said something about this from Shark Tank, right? She he hired her or asked her to sell a bunch of condos in a new building that he put up, and she did. Sold everything she asked. He offered her $4 million. He wouldn't pay her.

Starting point is 01:04:54 She had to sue him just to get her money. But how does somebody benefit by behaving like that? Like as a... When that's the only way you know? I mean, he was born rich, right? He's never had to find his to find his you know, Damon. Yeah, he's always had good hair, dude Rich people always have clean hair. I don't know about that, but Just call me Becky. Um, yeah, there you go Well, she likes him as a salesperson, but down in there it talks about how he ripped her off

Starting point is 01:05:23 How do you, you know, Trump University, Trump Foundation, Trump Soho, just example after example, where he ripped off hardworking Americans again and again and again. And to think all of a sudden he just changed who he is, just not the case. Like look what he's doing fucking now, right? A mint silver coin.

Starting point is 01:05:43 If you're, okay, if you're a billionaire, right? All of a sudden, you just made a billion dollars. You took your company public. You put a billion dollars in the bank. Are you gonna be selling silver medallion coins? What do they look like? Does it matter? I don't know, I haven't seen it.

Starting point is 01:05:59 You know what I'm talking? Oh, is it like, so you mean like one of those- You mean like the commemorative coins? Oh, commemorative coins, yeah. Right, that you see on the late night. They sell commemorative coins? Oh, commemorative coins, yeah. That you see on the late night. They sell commemorative everything, don't they? Yeah, but this is supposed to be the guy running for president, right?

Starting point is 01:06:09 And so he's selling commemorative coins. Oh, that's wild, dude. He's selling sneakers. Oh, that's gangster, bro. But why, if you're rich, selling sneakers, right? Because he's... Donald also has a, you know, he has a very... Look at this shit.

Starting point is 01:06:23 Those fucking... Those things are hype as fuck, dude, and I wish I had been here to be honest, just because they're pretty tough. has a, you know, he has a very look at this shit. Those things are hype as fuck, dude. And I wish I could be honest, just because they're pretty tough. I mean, they're ridiculous, but they're tough. But I think he's got to, you know, he loves being Donald Trump. Yes, he does. Undeniably. And I don't blame him for that.

Starting point is 01:06:37 More power to him, right? Love your life, right? Enjoy every minute. I hope he enjoys every minute of his life. Right. I got nothing against, I like the guy. If he was here and we were just talking shit, I'd get along great with him, right?

Starting point is 01:06:48 But that's different than wanting him to be president in the United States again, right? Totally different. And I think you need somebody you can trust. Now, is Kamala perfect? No, right? Do I agree with everything she's going to do or says? No, right?

Starting point is 01:07:00 But I think you can trust her, right? And that's the difference. And if you want her, I don't think we need to keep things in gangster mode. I don't know, that's why she's talking to me. That sounds stupid, right? But like fixing healthcare. She's not saying, okay, this lobbyist or that lobbyist.

Starting point is 01:07:16 She's like, how do we fix it? What do we do to make it to save people money? That's the difference. And I understand completely if you think everything's gangster, the deep state and all this shit, but like to me, that's just playing the victim. You know, you mean by believing that sort of mentality? No, that when he does it, right? When he says they're out, you know, it's the deep state. He was fucking president United States, the most powerful man in the world. And what did he do to stop the deep state? Now he just

Starting point is 01:07:43 stopped talking about it. He doesn't talk about the deep state anymore. That's supposedly the ultimate gangster shit, right? I mean, you know, if it's gangster and fucked up the way you say, and maybe it is, right? Maybe I just miss it. It feels like it. No, and I'm not saying it's not, right? Maybe I just don't see it, right? Maybe I've got it too good and I don't see the shit, right? But I mean, it ain't gonna get un-gangster. It's not gonna get better if you put in a gangster, right? And if you put somebody who's a gangster

Starting point is 01:08:12 in Tony Soprano style that only worries about loyalty, if you have an idea, he ain't listening. He's doing it his way, where I think with her, she'll listen. One interesting thing that he did, well, I wonder how much would be different from the first time that he had the experience to be president to, because sometimes you do something and you learn.

Starting point is 01:08:35 Right, the question is, does he become more gangster or more legit? Right. What do you think? I don't know, it's a good question. I think it would, that's the thing. I wish I knew a little bit more about how he thinks and is, you know, and that's the toughest thing is being a regular voter. It's so hard to get to know how somebody- But that's the exact same thing you said about Kamala, right? Really is, you know? Right? Because when he, look again, I don't hate him. I really don't hate anybody.

Starting point is 01:09:05 Yeah. Right? I respect him, right? I just don't agree with him and I don't think he'd be a good president. But when he came on here, right, and I listened to the interview, he talked pretty much,

Starting point is 01:09:14 other than your talk about his brother and what happened there, which was really cool, right? You know, you deserve a lot of credit, he deserves a lot of credit. But yeah, I wish he would have talked a little more about it, you know? I think it's hard to get into some of his, like an emotional side with him some, you know?

Starting point is 01:09:29 And I wish that it was maybe a little more possible, but you know, he's also an old, you know, he's a, you know, he's an older guy, senior citizen. Yeah, and it's harder, yeah, it's harder for that to. And I don't know him, you know? But you know, what I was gonna say is, he didn't really get into any details about anything other than the personal stuff with his brother, right?

Starting point is 01:09:47 In your stuff. Yeah, well, I think he wants to, he wants, I think there's just things people want to feel. They want to feel safe, right? So you want different things that are happening at the border. Like we had a couple of border patrol agents on, and they were saying that a lot of the problems,

Starting point is 01:10:03 they used to have like usual Mexican migration that comes up to help with farming and stuff like that. And then it's just gotten out of control. And then now it's gotten really out of control. So I think his, like him saying that we wanna close out or make it be like appropriate ways, that affects people's safety. No, I agree, right?

Starting point is 01:10:22 Everybody wants safety, right? And I think Biden fucked up. No question about it. He waited too long to do anything about it. Now, if you look at what's going on now, they're at the same, the border crossings are at the same level they were under Trump, right? So they've come way down.

Starting point is 01:10:38 And she has already said she wants to sign the border bill that the Republicans put out there, right? Not build a wall, but shut it down even further, which I think- So even further than a wall? Yeah, further than it is now, because they've already got it down to where it was when they built the wall, as much as they got built, right?

Starting point is 01:10:54 It's the same numbers as at the end of the pre-COVID stuff for Trump, 400,000 a day, whatever it is, right? And she wants to take it even further. She's not Joe Biden, right? So I agree with that, that it's a big deal. But he also said he just wanted to deport everybody. How the fuck do you do that?

Starting point is 01:11:12 Yeah. You're just going to walk into somebody's house. Hey, I know there might be somebody who may or may not be illegal. Get the local cops and just pull them out of their house. You know, what's that going to do to cities? You know, I mean, you go through LA, yeah, there's a bunch of illegals, right? But they're not all, not all their families are illegal.

Starting point is 01:11:32 Yeah. Yeah, and so if your family's getting dragged out the front door, what are you doing? Right. Right? And he gets the National Guard or the local cops to start dragging people out, putting them in a bus and setting them up. How do you think their community is going to respond?

Starting point is 01:11:47 Well, I guess it depends. Yeah, I think I agree. It's tough. It's like, how do you get into the minutia of some of those things? You've got to follow the law, right? But he's saying he's just going to drag them out of their doors, right?

Starting point is 01:11:56 He hasn't given any real details how he would do it. And what I'm saying is, let's just say he decided it's against Jewish people. Yeah. Just pull it out of left field. I'm not saying he is. he's not going to, right? That's happened to us before, right? And in a country where there's this many guns, people are pulling out their guns, right?

Starting point is 01:12:13 And I don't know, but I'm thinking if I'm Hispanic and I have a brother-in-law or somebody, my father, whatever, who's illegal, and they're just coming to my front door, I'm not just letting them take him and just say, thank you very much, give me another, right? Unless you do it the right way. There's way, look, they called Obama the deporter-in-chief. He deported more people than Trump ever did, but he followed the law to do it. As long as you follow the law, that's great, but when Donald goes around saying, we're just gonna fucking kick him out, right? I'm gonna, you know, do whatever. Right. That just sounds like more, it sounds like a boast and not like,

Starting point is 01:12:48 what is the actual practice? Right. More gangster. Right. But I think the fact that so many people have been let in, it's like there's Venezuelans in Brooklyn that are running like prostitution rings out of parks over there. Yeah. You know, and I don't, yeah. And there's Americans doing the same shit too, right? Right. That's a good point. But I'm not trying to make excuses for him, right? Get the motherfuckers out, but follow the law to do it. Tell us how you're going to do it. Right. That's a good point. Yeah. He doesn't, Donald doesn't have, doesn't have much of a, uh,

Starting point is 01:13:16 he's not very finessed when it comes to the emotional comfort of how something's just respect the law. Otherwise shit could hit the fan in a bad way. Yeah. Yeah. But the fact that people have come in lawlessly, it feels like... Biden fucked up. No one's changed. No one's saying he didn't. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:13:32 Right? He let too many people in. That could have been the Bernie Sanders side of him, right? I'm not saying, you know, he did the right thing. Yeah. Right? But you are where you are, right? So the only question is, how do you fix it?

Starting point is 01:13:44 Right. And just saying... Great point. You are where you are. You are where you are, right? So the only question is, how do you fix it? Right. And just saying- Great point, you are where you are. You are where you are, the situation is the situation. When that company, Cass or whatever it was, fucked you up, you were where you were. Yeah. And you just had to deal with it.

Starting point is 01:13:55 Yeah. Right? You could sue, you could do whatever, you could follow the law, you did what you had to do, right? It's the same with this, right? You are where you are, and if he's going to get people out, which you should, he's not saying I'll follow the Obama model, but instead of three million people deported,

Starting point is 01:14:10 it's going to be 11 million. Right, let's hear the practice more. Right. Because otherwise, when you have 300 million, 400 million guns in a fucking country, people aren't just going to say, take my brother, thank you very much. Right. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:14:24 You know, that's a great point. I think. Yeah. I think that you have to have more of an idea of, yeah, how are things going to be done? Tell us how you're going to do it. Right. You can't just say I'm going to deport because to your point, right, it gets people mad and they want to vote because they feel threatened, right? They don't feel safe, you know, and I don't blame them for not feeling for being mad and not feeling safe. That's legit. Right. But how are you going to fix it? Right? Kamala's saying, okay, here's the program that we got from James Lankford, whoever,

Starting point is 01:14:51 the guy from Oklahoma, I think it is, for this Republican bill. I'll sign it, right? Because this is a problem. She hasn't said how she's going to deal with deportations. That's something that she should be asked. I don't know the answer. I don't know where her head is on that. But I do know that if you go more gangster on this.

Starting point is 01:15:08 That it could escalate and get worse, you think? Yeah, wouldn't you? I don't know. I don't know. I hadn't thought about it like that exactly. I hadn't thought about what are the actual practices of it, you know? Dude hires people illegals in Mar-a-Lago.

Starting point is 01:15:22 Yeah. Right? Oh, well, that's an interesting thing about our whole country is, it's like people say, well, we don't want illegals in Mar-a-Lago. Yeah. Right? Well, that's an interesting thing about our whole country is it's like people say, well, we don't want illegals here, but then people hire illegals to also do their jobs. And they're not doing like, they're not doing these jobs, right? They're doing, you know, the shitty jobs. But most of the people that are coming over now, it's gotten so much more out of like people just coming over to work and send money back home. It's gotten like, most of the people aren't even Mexican people that are coming over now. It's all other types,

Starting point is 01:15:48 which doesn't make those people any better or any worse. But it's still like, if it's like, it just makes me like, I can't walk. I'm scared to let my kid walk the block to school now, or just because I don't know. And if you feel like these people don't have a social security number, then there's no way to even prosecute them or have them be contributing members. Well, no, that's not true, right? So even if they don't have a social security number, if they break the law, they'll deport them, right? Or they'll throw them in jail, whatever it may be.

Starting point is 01:16:17 They're not saying because you don't have a social security number, you can't be prosecuted. Oh, I see. Right. Yeah, that's not the way it works. Yeah, I mean, yeah, a lot of people, the executive branch, one of the border patrol guys said that the executive branch, they're not doing the processing well enough. So a lot of times they get the same people over and over again.

Starting point is 01:16:36 Yeah, they send them back, they come right back over. They send them back, that's fucked up, right? So we have, obviously we have to do better. Yeah. And there used to be a program where families got to sponsor somebody that was coming over. Back in the day. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know where that is or what's going on. That would just be cool because then you as a person that's already that lives here or is a citizen here, you feel like you have a connection to that. You know, it's like. That's how my grandparents got in the country. Yeah. They came over from Ukraine and all over the fucking place. Right. It was was either be killed where they were or get your ass over here, right? I just think we're in a tough space in this country where it's like people are struggling with addiction, people are struggling with home ownership, we're dealing with less marriages

Starting point is 01:17:17 than ever. Like the family unit is broken, people are scared, you know, a person can't care about their kids because they have to fucking work all day or they can but it's just hard to manage And how do you think you fix that? I don't know and I think it's a lot to think that one person could be the person that does it and I don't even know how you as a As a leader say you need the help from the people because they're already stressed That's what a leader is supposed to do right, the people because they're already stressed at a level. That's what leaders are supposed to do. Right.

Starting point is 01:17:46 That's the whole job, right? That's why I turned on Trump because he didn't pay attention to those details. It wasn't like he had a team that was like, I got this guy to do this, I got this guy to do that. And even now, who else? Well, he has, at least he, I do like that he brought in Bobby Kennedy Jr., you know?

Starting point is 01:18:02 Yeah, I'm not a big Bobby Kennedy. You're not? No, not at all. Yeah, because of the healthcare shit. I like his stuff on unprocessed foods, I'm not a big Bobby Kennedy. You're not? No, not at all. Yeah. Yeah, because of the health care shit. I like his stuff on unprocessed foods. I think that's legit. In fact, one of my buddies, Todd Wagner, one of my partners, this whole thing is getting rid of unprocessed foods.

Starting point is 01:18:14 He helped sign a law in California to get all these dyes and shit out. So I'm in agreement there. Yeah, that's one thing I love about him. And clean water, just trying to clean up the environment. I'm cool with that. Yeah, those are the things that I love. Those are the things that I only really know that he does.

Starting point is 01:18:25 Yeah, I got no problem with that side of him, right? The whole vaccine thing, I think that's, he's misguided on that, but that's what makes a market, right? That's okay, people can disagree. And you need somebody to say this is, you needed a, you needed, because half of America was like, this feels like we should just let it, it's not that dangerous, we should let it figure itself out. And nobody was even allowed to say that it felt like.

Starting point is 01:18:50 Say what? That this feels like a, that during COVID, this just feels like something that we need to let it run its course through people instead of like going this in this, such a, like a kind of almost felt like a communist route of like locking everything down. Yeah, I mean. It wouldn't have to go into that. Yeah, I was responsible for 20,000 people coming

Starting point is 01:19:13 into a Mavs game. And if somebody would have died because I didn't want them to be vaccinated. Then you would get sued too. None of that, I would have felt like shit for the rest of my life. Yeah. Right, so just different, yeah.

Starting point is 01:19:22 So everybody can have different perspectives on that. I was pro-vax, yeah, I was pro-vax. Yeah. I don't know what I was vax on it. I don't know. I mean, I guess, I guess I was probably anti. I don't know if I was anti-vax. I just felt like, like they suddenly shut down all of the AA rooms and shit. And that killed so many people because they couldn't go get meetings. And you're like, can't zoom everything. Yeah. Right. Like I'm going to die because I'm an addict. And I don't know. Yeah. My brother's 17 years sober. So I went through all that shit. We're like, I'm gonna die because I'm an addict. And I don't, COVID is the least of my worries. My brother's 17 years sober. So I went through all that shit with him. So I can't- Yeah, not having some of that. So I just think that the way that it was all handled felt like-

Starting point is 01:19:56 Look, with everything. It's easy to look back at. Yeah, right. You can look at everything differently, right? Because in hindsight, everything's 2020, right? But when you're in the middle of it and people are fucking dying, it's scary as fuck. Yeah. But that's the difference between leadership, like going back to leadership. I mean, you nailed it. You need leaders, right? And leaders may not be able to do everything themselves personally, but you got to have people around you that can do it.

Starting point is 01:20:22 And that's where I think Trump is fucked up. Yeah, you don't hear a lot about who he's going to get to help him with each thing. And a lot of it's because the people who he used before all turned on him, right? All his cabinet members, 40 out of his 44 cabinet members said, we ain't voting for him, right? We don't think he's qualified to do this job. And, you know, so healthcare,

Starting point is 01:20:42 you hear Vance mention some things, but what else, right? Deportations, you hear Donald say he's gonna do it, but how, right? Can you name one thing that Donald said, how he's gonna do it? Yeah. Yeah, I think, well, I think that's another thing that even on the common side,

Starting point is 01:20:58 it's like I wish there were more some specifics about the policies. It's almost like they could both use a tune up in some of that area. For sure. Now, you know, we got 45 days or whatever it is to find out from Kamala what she's going to do. I'm pushing them to get as much detail out, right? Um, I talked to their team three, four times a week via text. Yeah. Via text, right? Um, and I give them shit when they deserve shit, right? And I'll say what I think and they listen though, right? They may not agree all the time, but they'll listen.

Starting point is 01:21:27 And so I know like, when I talk to our team, they're like, okay, we got to talk to the policy director of this or that, right? Healthcare, we're going to talk about, you know, independent pharmacies going up. Okay, we have a group that's looking at healthcare in general, let us get your feedback and go. Like I was talking to them the other day on Amazon. Do you sell anything on Amazon by chance? I never, I bought

Starting point is 01:21:49 stuff on there. Yeah but never. Okay so like little companies, like shark, I found this on Shark Tank, right? So little companies that make headphones, right? They get knocked off a lot, a lot, right? So you come up with an idea to do something, blood, sweat, and tears, you put it on Amazon, some fuckers in China are like, I make that shit, right? I'm gonna go on there and just knock it off, right? And sell it there, and as a little company, it's hard. It's not impossible, but it's hard to get Amazon to take it down, particularly on a timely basis.

Starting point is 01:22:21 And so they lose, you know, they can lose half, 75%, all of their sales to these knockoffs, right? And so I said to them, you know, they can lose half, 75%, all of their sales to these knockoffs, right? And so I said to them, you know, hey, here's what I learned from these companies, right? Amazon isn't the good partner they used to be for these little companies. Can we do something together? Can I put something together?

Starting point is 01:22:37 It was like, yeah, put something together for us because you're right, we need to do it. It's not right that China's knocking off some of our smallest entrepreneurs, even big entrepreneurs, right, and stealing their business. So it's not about tariffs, it's about, okay, so I propose to them, can we get these Chinese companies to register

Starting point is 01:22:53 before they're allowed to sell on Amazon? Get them to put up like a 25K bond in case they rip off people, there's some money there, right? For every product they sell, you're gonna sell headphones, right? Post it up, just like a patent. You have to post your patent before it gets approved. Yeah, almost like you have to put your rating in the restaurant window or whatever.

Starting point is 01:23:10 Yeah, right. Same type of thing, right? So post whatever it is you're going to sell and put up five grand for it, right? Again, in case you violate IP. That's revenue for the country that protects our small independent businesses, right? And it protects us against China who, you know, they don't care about IP all the time, right? And they were like, great idea. We have a policy team to look at that stuff for us, right?

Starting point is 01:23:34 That's the big difference, right? So we don't have all the details yet, and I think that's not as good as it should be, but hopefully we'll get all those out in policy papers and everything and get some details. I haven't even seen who Trump is going to turn to for details. So you feel like with the Democratic Party that with Kamala's group that there's more organization.

Starting point is 01:23:54 A lot more and a lot more details paid attention to. Got it. Right. And I think that's important. Maybe there's people that Donald has put together and we just don't see it. But you don't think there is. Who do you think is going to, um, well, thanks, man. I, yeah, I like talking about that stuff. Sometimes I get kind of scared to talk about it, I guess, because some, some things I don't know and everybody does. Nobody knows everything. Nobody knows shit can be on the big picture, right? Um, do you think, who do you think will win?

Starting point is 01:24:25 I have no idea. I know. That fucking crazy? Crazy. Do you think we still have a fair election process in this country? Yes, absolutely. You do?

Starting point is 01:24:33 Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. That's my biggest fear is just that we don't have one. And that that I think, and when you start to, that's one thing it gets really weird because you start to think that since other things seem kind of like lobbyists are involved in everything and there's, you know, Bernie Sanders saying we have more lobbyists than we have reps and senators.

Starting point is 01:24:53 That I believe, right? He said there's three lobbyists for every one of this. Like within what, what are, where's the, what's the real government? Almost feels like the lobbyist becomes real government. So like, then you start to just so I'll finish part, just, but then you start to, you start to think that if that all that feels so compromised is the voting compromised. Yeah, I mean, as a geek, and having looked at a lot of this stuff, I mean, I'm not the ultimate geek in all this, but yeah, I'm pretty confident. And plus, they've been sued a thousand times.

Starting point is 01:25:22 All the states that Trump questioned were audited and had recounts and notice he didn't question the states. He won. Yeah That's a good point, right? So it's not like he didn't trust it, right? He just and I remember going I I got invited by Clinton to one of the early debates in 2016 Mm-hmm, and he was talking then about how the election wasn't going to be fair. So one of the coolest books I ever read was about a guy named Roy Cohen. And I don't know if you ever heard of the McCarthy trials

Starting point is 01:25:51 in the 50s where they were calling everybody a communist. Yeah, I remember. And so I did a movie actually, executive produced a movie called Good Night and Good Luck. Got nominated for six Academy Awards. Oh, yeah, with George Clooney. It was George Clooney, right? And it was all about that.

Starting point is 01:26:03 Well, Roy Cohen was Donald Trump's mentor. And Roy Cohen, he was the guy who was defending the people saying, you're communist, you're communist, right? And his approach was deny, deny, deny, deny, and it's your fault, it's your fault, it's your fault, and they're out to get me. Everything Donald is doing is Roy Cohen part two. So you feel like that's a lot of his motive,

Starting point is 01:26:23 that's a lot of his template? Yeah, that's his template. Yeah, that's his template. Yeah, that's the right word, template. Yeah, and I think a lot of people feel like it's all so against them that they'll fucking throw a wrench into the- Just to fucking go further, right? Well, no, just because it's like, we'll fire anything at, you know, it's like, I think there's a lot of that mentality is that he's not a politician.

Starting point is 01:26:45 So they're going after him. So it's better than having a politician there because the politics because the political landscape has gotten so I would agree. Look, like when Biden was running, I feel differently about Kamala, but when Biden was running, if you had a non-MAGA Republican running, I would probably vote for them. Right? I'm, you know, I just, and you nailed it, right? Social liberal, fiscally conservative. Yeah, the whole gangster thing, I think that's just wrong.

Starting point is 01:27:13 Yeah. Like when I was a little kid, I used to go with my buddy, Jay, and his dad was a numbers collector, you know? And so we would go. Oh really? Yeah, when he had this little- Chats plus three, dude. Yeah, right?

Starting point is 01:27:23 Yeah, always. No, this is why I'll take number seven, right? Oh, with horses? No, no, no, just literally numbers. So back in the day, the mafia basically, right, in Pittsburgh and everywhere, they would allow you to pick a number, I don't know out of how many, you think, one to 20, you pick a number, and you bet, right?

Starting point is 01:27:39 And each number had different odds. And if your number came up, you got paid. It's not like roulette. That was it. Yeah, that was more like, we call it numbers, right? It was like roulette but somebody came and told you what the number was? Yeah, they just posted the number and that was it, right? And they knew what you had bet. And if you didn't pay up, right? Not that they would hit him, but they were just, my buddy's dad used to sit there with a little, you know, little souvenir baseball bats they

Starting point is 01:28:00 give at games, a little tiny one? Pep, Pep PEP. And it was cool as shit sitting in his 1968 Buick Riviera. I thought it was badass as hell at the time. Collecting numbers there, that's cool. But the gangster shit, right? Yeah. Once a gangster, always a gangster. And when it comes time to dealing with stuff, it's self-preservation first.

Starting point is 01:28:20 That's the number one rule of being a gangster, isn't it? Stay out of jail, keep your shit going. That's not putting the country first. Well, yeah, the problem is it feels like the country hasn't been first for a long time. And so people want a gangster. So that's why I understand. I understand too, right? You explained it better than anybody, right?

Starting point is 01:28:38 The way you said it to me was the only thing that I've been told. Okay, I get that. Right. You know, or like my buddy said, I'm tired of voting for politicians. I get that, but I don't know if that's who Donald Trump is these days. Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, it's interesting.

Starting point is 01:28:52 That's why it's, you know, it's fun to talk about and think about. Yeah, no, just to have a good conversation. Yeah. No yelling, no screaming. And I totally respect your thoughts and I respect a lot of your insight too. And vice versa, and vice versa, yeah.

Starting point is 01:29:04 100%. Yeah, and I would love to be able to. And vice versa, and vice versa. You know, a hundred percent. Yeah. And I would love to be able to have her on. They reached out like last week about it. Oh, cool. And so we've been- Who reached out? Do you know?

Starting point is 01:29:13 I'm not sure. I'll have to check with my buddy, Zach, you know, but- Or just email me who reached out and I'll find out. I'll put in a good word for you. Yeah. It'd be interesting, you know, just to, I think, cause the toughest thing as like a regular person who just can go vote, it's like you've just, even more these days,

Starting point is 01:29:29 you wanna try and figure out who is this person, you know? You obviously have a lot of like thoughts and creativity and you've had success. Do you feel like running for office? Have you thought about it? Fuck no. I've thought about it, yeah, even looked into it, yeah, but it's not gonna happen, right?

Starting point is 01:29:46 All the shit that they're going through, right? Like you just even mean on a human basis. Yeah, on a human basis. Like, why would I put my family through that? Right. Right, and with Cos Plus, I can have an impact, right? And I just think I can do more outside than inside. And I'm just not good at, you know,

Starting point is 01:30:01 all the formalities and all that shit. You know, you're not, I mean, showing up at a state dinner in jeans and a t-shirt isn't gonna work. I don't know, I think people would love it. That would be me. Oh, I just think people would love that. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:30:13 My wife would kill me. Did you ever ask her what she thought? Yeah, my family voted no. No, you sat them down? Four to one, yeah, sat them down. Four, no, one, yes. Oh, man. Did you even try to lobby one of them to even help you a little well?

Starting point is 01:30:26 My son got into it a little bit, but he was only like 13 at the time. So Yeah, I guess what what moments or what what What is it the part of you that makes you feel like you want would want to do or could do it? Because I just want to do the right thing, right? You know, if there's a deep state, I don't need anything from anybody, right? You can't buy me, right? And I try to be smart about things.

Starting point is 01:30:53 I'm curious and I like to learn. I want to listen and be open-minded. And I think I've got approaches that have worked for me in the past, but also are getting results now, you know Like the cost plus drug stuff. I know how to change industries whether it was a streaming industry HD TV You know movies whatever it is any industry I've gotten into I've managed to kind of bubble to the top. Yeah, and You know and I also know you know to trust smart people to partner with people who know shit that I don't know

Starting point is 01:31:24 How do you know how to complement with people who know shit that I don't know, how to compliment my skillsets. I mean, maybe I'd be too honest about the whole thing, but I think I could do a good job, but there's just no way I'm putting my family through that. So that's why, maybe if you had an extra 15 years in your life, you would think about it? Yeah, but they're still my family, right? And it's like-

Starting point is 01:31:44 It's a lot. Yeah, I mean, when Clinton was president, the worst he did was try still my family, right? And it's like- It's a lot. Yeah, I mean, when Clinton was president, the worst he did was try to smoke dope, right? You know, and Obama- And he got that hummer too. Yeah, well, yeah, but that was after the fact. They was already in, right? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:31:56 But- I mean, who knows? Look, I think if you're the president, but he was married though. Yeah. That was why. Whatever it was right yeah you know to get elected all you had to do was say I didn't inhale right now shit's totally different now

Starting point is 01:32:11 yeah shit's way different you know you got pictures yeah your kids were here you were there doing this doing that it would put your family through brutal yeah brutal so that's a big reason really do you think that keeps a lot of people out of it yeah for sure wow for sure it is it's a big reason really. Do you think that keeps a lot of people out of it? Yeah, for sure. Wow. For sure. It is. It's a scrutiny. It's that media scrutiny that they...

Starting point is 01:32:30 Look at Kamala, right? She was 30 years old fucking a dude older, right? Or young. She's in her 20s. Yeah, Montel Jordan or something. Whatever, right? Just having fun. If it was me and you, we'd be like, let's go party with Kamala Montel, right?

Starting point is 01:32:40 Let's go, go, let's go, right? And now, you know, all the shit she goes through and that's not bad, right? Let's go, go, let's go, right? And now, you know, all the shit she goes through and that's not bad, right? But imagine that, you know, she doesn't, you know, and even like her stepdaughter, the one who was a little, you know, that has all the tattoos and shit that they were given shit to. Oh, I haven't seen her. Yeah, only because. Oh wait, I did see her. Yeah, they gave her shit because. Yeah, like. How she looks. Yeah. Yeah. The Tats and everything and all that and whatever. Right. I don't remember all the details. Well, yeah. And remember the Baron Trump stories came out. He has autism. He has Down syndrome. Right. You're like, what are you talking about? But I will tell you this. When I went to the White House to visit Donald, you know,

Starting point is 01:33:14 he was rambling around. This was when he was in office? Yeah. And this is like 2019. He's like, da, da, da, da, da, da. And we were talking, trying to talk about health care. We went off in a bunch of different stuff. He goes, are you still on that show, Shark Whatever? I'm like, yeah. He goes, Baron loves that show. I'm like, tell Baron. And he goes, that's his favorite show.

Starting point is 01:33:31 I'm like, tell Baron, thanks. And then I'm walking out, he goes, wait. I'm like, what? He goes, that suit looks really good on you. That's who he is, right? He's gonna give compliments like that and shit like that. Yeah. What was I gonna, oh, I want to talk about your, the drug companies.

Starting point is 01:33:49 Cuspersdrugs.com. Okay. Because yeah, one of the toughest things is that people pay more. Well, first, you tell me what's the best order for this. Because we talked about like the insurance, the scam that goes on between hospitals and insurers and regular people. And then can you explain that to me and then tell me how your drug helps, how

Starting point is 01:34:10 the company helps? So where we fit in all that. Okay. So there's insurance, well, that's the best way to explain it. There's drugs that you take and then there's what they call providers, the hospitals you go to, right? Okay, so the hospitals you go to is the provider. The provider, right? And then there's the payers, which are the insurance companies, right? And the insurance companies try to do deals with the providers, but they're not always up and up, right? The providers, it's not the providers, it's just the insurance companies have all the leverage because they have the money, right? And hospitals are just trying to get all the business

Starting point is 01:34:49 that they can get. And so there's all these games and arbitrages that are played over and over and over again. But what I think people don't realize is almost everybody with healthcare, like where do you get your healthcare? Or do you just self-pay or do you have insurance? I have health insurance. like where do you get your healthcare? Or do you just self pay or do you have insurance? I have health insurance.

Starting point is 01:35:07 Through, do you know? I'm not sure, but it costs $400 a month. Okay, so it's probably the ACA, right? The Obamacare, right? But you have a deductible, right? And let's just say for the shits and giggles, that's $2,000 deductible. For the hospital, even though this insurance company

Starting point is 01:35:24 is gonna pay anything above $2,000, you're responsible for that $2,000, right? And the hospital, like, is already not going to get paid on 50% of the deductibles. And so that's why you get a lot of this bad debt. The insurance companies don't pay for the whole thing. And they plan everything so they don't have to play for the whole thing. And that creates a lot of medical debt. And so there's a lot of medical debt that the hospitals owe that none that that the individuals with the deductibles, I see what you're saying, right? Because they can't afford to pay their deductible.

Starting point is 01:35:57 Got it. Right. And so, you know, you have some disease and you can't afford your deductible, which is 2000. It doesn't matter that it covers above 2000, right? Because you can't pay your deductible, which is $2,000, it doesn't matter that it covers above $2,000, right? Because you can't pay the first $2,000. Right? So that puts that puts people in a lot of fucked up situations. And even hospitals, the providers in such bad situations, because a big part of their revenue isn't getting paid. Right? And here's the insurance company not giving a fuck. Right? just saying, that's your problem, not mine.

Starting point is 01:36:25 I'll pay you what I think I owe you, maybe. And so all that, the insurance companies put pressure on the hospitals, the providers, the doctors, and the doctors then put pressure on the patients. That's where it's all fucked up. And so what we're pushing for with the Harris campaign and in general is a lot of that happens because there's no transparency. we're pushing for with the Harris campaign and in general is a lot of that happens because there's no transparency. Nobody knows what the contract is between the insurance company and the hospitals.

Starting point is 01:36:51 Nobody knows what the contract is between the insurance company and your employer. And so as a result, the biggest companies have the most leverage and can fuck with everybody. And that's where things go bad. So what I'm saying is, if you make every insurance contract and provider contract public, then all of a sudden people can understand just how good- That's called power to the patients.

Starting point is 01:37:12 You familiar with them? Yeah. There's a group out there called power to the patients that lobbies for price. That you have to know how much an MRI costs when you go to get it. So that that way, if the hospital says the MRI costs $700 and the one down the street is gonna have to know how much an MRI costs when you go to get it. So that that way, if the hospital says the MRI costs $700 and the one down the street is gonna have to say

Starting point is 01:37:28 it costs 650 and they're gonna have to start to compete. And there's an executive order that says they have to do that. And that was a good thing that Trump did, but it wasn't enforced by the Biden administration. Well, because the penalty is only like $1,000 a day. So they'd rather pay the penalty? Right, and so I funded a study that had people call the hospitals

Starting point is 01:37:49 to see if they can get those cash prices. Yeah. And a lot of them didn't even know, a third of them didn't even know what the cash prices were. Wow. So they're not being instructed. Yeah, they just don't know, right? Because they don't care.

Starting point is 01:37:59 That's not a big part of their business, right? They want to get all the money from the insurance companies. So anyways, circling around to what we do. right? So I got a cold email, just like Thomas the pizza guy, I got a cold email from a guy named Dr. Alex Osmianski. And he said that there are a lot of generic drugs that were in short supply and kids can't get their medicine and this and that. And I'm like, well, what can we do about that? And he's like, well, I want to do this thing called a compounding pharmacy where we can make those drugs, right? And so, he's like-

Starting point is 01:38:29 So you wanted to start a compounding pharmacy where you guys can make those drugs? Make those drugs that are in short supply. I'm like, that's cool, but it's not thinking big enough. So I'm like, let me look at the pharmaceutical industry and the drug industry and see why so many people can't afford them and what's going on. So I looked at it and it was really obvious,

Starting point is 01:38:44 really fast that there's no transparency, right? Because nobody, you know, just like you don't know when you go in, you know, for your MRI, like doctor says, Theo, you need this medication. You have no clue what the price is going to be. The next question always, what pharmacy are you using, right? They're not saying can you afford it or anything, right? So we decided to create this company called costplusdrugs.com. And if you go to costplusdrugs.com and put

Starting point is 01:39:09 in the name of a medication, we don't have them all, we have about 2,500. We'll show you our cost, our actual cost that we actually pay for it. And then we market up 15%. And then there's $5 shipping and handling to send it to you, and then $5 for our pharmacy. Or if you pick it up locally, it's $12, so the pharmacist makes money. And because of that, because of that transparency and only marketing up 15%, our prices are dramatically lower. And when the insurance companies are trying to rip people off, like there's a drug called a Matnib.

Starting point is 01:39:41 And if you don't come to us or some of the better pharmacies, smaller pharmacies, you might get charged $2,000 a month. For us, it might be $21 a month. I had a buddy who takes this drug, Droxodopa. And I didn't know what the fuck it was, right? A friend of ours emailed me and said, Landon can't get this because... Droxodopa? Yeah, I don't know what it is. Sounds like a drug, right? Sounds like a free safety product. Right, right. And so he was like, he can't know what it is. Sounds like a drug, right? Sounds like a free safety product. Right, right.

Starting point is 01:40:05 Yeah. And so he was like, he can't, you know, he lost his insurance and they're going to charge him $10,000 every three months. I'm like... That's crazy. Crazy. So I'm like, let me see what we can get it for.

Starting point is 01:40:15 And go ahead and go to CosmosDrugs.com and put in Droxodopa. And $64 for the three months. Yeah, you don't need to show that part. Yeah. Yeah, so go to see all medications and then droxidopa. Now it's $14. Put some Nicorette on there, dude. You just sell the lights out of it.

Starting point is 01:40:43 Droxidopa, so now it's $14. So you guys, because you're able to make the drugs yourself? No, because we're able to buy them in volume and because we only mark them up 15%. Well, why doesn't our own government do that to help us? Well, they're starting to now, but see, the problem was we published our prices and we put out a price list. Before we came along, nobody else did. So you're creating the fact that other people are now going to have to do that. Right. So now people see our prices and they're like, okay

Starting point is 01:41:07 Millions of people are just going to cost plus drugs comm right and the doctors are like fuck drugs adobe of fourteen dollars instead This other place wanted three thousand plus a month. We're going to cost plus drugs are all your drugs cheaper I'd say 99% of them are yeah every now and then there's one where we're not cheaper But every time we get as our volumes go up and our prices go down, we pass it on. So literally we've lowered our prices on every weekday since last August, I guess it's been over a year now, we've lowered our prices.

Starting point is 01:41:35 We've had some drug that has come in that we've been able to lower the price on. So anybody out there, you, your mom, your dad, your aunt, your uncle, your grandparents, right? Whatever drug you take, if you're paying, you know, more than 15 bucks out of pocket, go to costplusdrugs.com, put in the name of it, and see if we're cheaper.

Starting point is 01:41:52 I mean, literally, it's crushing it. Right, that's all it does, that's all it takes to check it out. That's it. You just do it, right? So, like, if you have a deductible, we might be cheaper than your deductible, and it's cheaper to pay cash with us.

Starting point is 01:42:03 Now, can people running a problem, say if they're not supposed to get certain drugs? Is it easier to get those drugs through you guys? No, no, no. You still have to have a prescription. Like Percocets or whatever. No, no, no. We don't do any controlled substances at all. Okay. Huh. Wow, man. But how does our government, how does the government allow you to be able to do that? Well, they can't stop me, right? Because it's just free market stuff.

Starting point is 01:42:23 Yeah. I'm glad that it's happening. No, they like it, right? So now I'm talking to the Harris campaign, and I'm saying, look, if we just do this transparency, you guys can buy the same way we do, right? And so there was a thing from the FTC who went after all these things called these pharmacy benefit managers and just threw them under the bus and sued them, but they used our prices, right?

Starting point is 01:42:41 Now there's research. In the lawsuit? Yeah. Yeah, there's research from like Vanderbilt and Harvard saying if the government of Medicare bought at our prices, they would save billions of dollars a year, right? I mean, literally immediately, if some, there's people out there that are struggling

Starting point is 01:42:56 with their prices, what they pay, they switch to us. They're gonna save a fuck ton of money. And they can just do that, but it's their own choice. They don't need their doctor's approval to switch to you? Well, they need to get a prescription to send to us. Okay, so let's send you a prescription. Right. But the doctor doesn't determine where they just usually say what your local pharmacy can do. Right. And you just tell it, right. And so you just say, you know, send it to costplusdrugs.com. So in the system that the doctors use to

Starting point is 01:43:19 create the prescription, it lists us there and they just click on it and it's easy. Wow. Yeah. No, it's insane. It's insane. Like literally, we's easy. Wow. Yeah, no, it's insane. It's insane, like literally, we only started June, I mean, January 19th of 2022. So we've only been around a little bit more than two and a half years and we're just changing everything. Is it publicly traded or no?

Starting point is 01:43:36 No, no, no, it's private. I funded the whole thing. Damn. No, cause I don't want to have to worry about making people money. Yeah. Right, cause we're losing money now. Not that much actually now, but it's more important for me to fuck things worry about making people money. Yeah. Because we're losing money now. Not that much actually now.

Starting point is 01:43:45 But it's more important for me to fuck things up, right? And change things. Oh, so you like the fact that you're changing the industry? Oh, fuck yeah. Yeah. I love that. No, no.

Starting point is 01:43:53 Because to me, that's always the most fun, right? So you've got all the, I mean, the health care industry, right? If, you know, what's the one thing you want to go down in history for? I fucked up the health care industry, right? I made it so people could afford their health care, their medication.

Starting point is 01:44:05 And so, that's what we're doing with pharmaceuticals and medications. We're also working on cost plus wellness, which will deal with and kind of push out those insurance companies. Because most people like get their healthcare through their employer. And most employers, particularly the big ones,

Starting point is 01:44:19 self insure, meaning they pay for all the costs out of pocket. And they don't realize how the employers, the CEOs of those companies, don't realize how the employers, the CEOs of those companies, don't realize how badly they're getting ripped off. And so we're out there working on new programs now so that those employers will figure it out. We're starting with my companies

Starting point is 01:44:35 and then we'll extend it out to other companies. Yeah, it's just crazy that I feel like it just needs overhauls of things, you know? And it's not that hard. This is like, this is the easiest industry I've ever disrupted. Cause all we had to do was publish our price list. Right.

Starting point is 01:44:50 Cause everybody else was hiding everything, right? You talked before about shit happening behind the scenes. Yeah, cause you go into the doctor, you go into the hospital, you sign something that says, I'm gonna pay whatever you charge me. Yeah, for sure. And then you assume they're gonna charge you the amount that, the fairest amount

Starting point is 01:45:04 cause they are, they're a fucking hospital, they're supposed to take care amount that, the fairest amount, cause they are a fucking hospital, they're supposed to take care of you. You would think so, right? And then they don't, they charge you. Cause they want, whatever they can. But why do they do that? Because they're getting fucked by the insurance companies.

Starting point is 01:45:15 Got it. Right, and they know that if you complain about the price, they'll reduce it. Right. So, but then you have to, you're already sick, now you have to spend the next 17 weeks of your life. Right, dealing with that shit, right? Arguing with someone who's been trained how to argue against you.

Starting point is 01:45:31 Exactly, exactly right. And that's where we're going to fuck up. In another country most of the time. Actually, some of it's here. A lot of medical buildings is here. Yeah. But then you end it. No, if you're calling in, yeah, and it's over there. Yeah, for sure. But then they feel hor- then the person arguing against you, the person, the employee feels horrible because they know that they're- They're fucking you over.

Starting point is 01:45:47 They're fucking you over, but they're just trying to make their money to go and take care of their kids. So from the hospital side of it, right? The hospital has to have way too many employees to deal with the insurance company. And the insurance company says, okay, we know this is what we're supposed to owe

Starting point is 01:45:57 from when Theo took his kid in there, right? But we're not going to pay you the full amount. If you don't like that, sue us. And then they sue them. So now they have to have a shitload of doctors, right? So what we're saying is we're going to these places and saying, we're going gonna pay you the full amount. If you don't like that, sue us. And then they sue them, so now they have to have a shitload of doctors, right? So what we're saying is we're going to these places and saying, we're gonna do a contract, we're gonna do just cash, right?

Starting point is 01:46:10 So there's no fucking around with the insurance companies and we're gonna publish all the contracts so that everybody can compare notes and figure out the best way to do it. Yeah. Well, that was, I mean, there was an executive order that said that they have to do that, but it's not being enforced.

Starting point is 01:46:24 Well, they do a little bit, but like we said earlier, Not at a level where it's helping, where people are like, they should have a commercial, the government should buy a commercial every week that runs a hundred times, that says, right now you have to, Trump administration announced historic price transparency requirements to increase competition

Starting point is 01:46:41 in lower healthcare costs for all Americans. So they said, I think for a hundred of the most- This was something not good that Trump did. No, it's good. No, I'm not saying Trump did everything bad, right? But this is one of the good things he did. But yeah, this is one of the things I think back then it was a hundred of the top services. Now it's 500 I think. So it's growing?

Starting point is 01:46:59 It's growing. That has to do it. But how do we enforce it? It's not being enforced. Well, so it's not so much enforcing that, right? Because if they put up shitty prices, it doesn't matter. If you show prices that are too expensive for everybody, it doesn't matter. And so you want to be able to have the whole contract

Starting point is 01:47:18 published so that everybody who's responsible for paying not only sees that price, but how it got to that price. And then people can create software and apps and this and that, that can truly help you because most people do have some kind of insurance, right? Like only 11% of people don't, or they have high deductible plans. And if you have a high deductible plan, you don't quite know what you're going to end up paying out of pocket anyways, even if they tell you that it's only 750 for the MRI or 250 for the MRI.

Starting point is 01:47:45 Right. So that's, that's an important part of it, but it's that much of it. Yeah. It's just interesting. It's just tough that you have to figure out how am I getting screwed all the time? It's brutal. It's brutal, but that's the opportunity for me. Right.

Starting point is 01:47:57 Because Paul Rivera pills. We'll call you a couple of quick questions before you get out of here, man. Um, Why did you sell the Mavs? This is what people know. Kids, it was time, more time with my family. It was just, you know, and the fact that to compete, which probably was as important to family, in order for me to compete, you got to generate more revenues. And when it was technology and media, I knew that shit cold.

Starting point is 01:48:26 But now it's like building casinos, building, you know, you see what happens with the Titan Stadium and all the shit they put around it, right? That's not me, I'm not a real estate guy. And I don't want to have to learn, I don't want to have to put up $2 billion to figure out if I'm doing it right or not. And so I brought in a great partner, Patrick Dumont,

Starting point is 01:48:42 and the Addison family, who are big Trump supporters. And so they're just better at it than I am. And so I thought that put the Mavs in a better position and it didn't suck that I got all that money. Oh, it's selling. You mean? Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:48:58 I mean, it's still in 27% and I'm still involved. So got it. It's a win-win. Was there another team that you wanted to buy recently? What about a WNBA team? No, not really, because it was more about just spending more time. So that's just another. Yeah, because there's a lot of pressure, right?

Starting point is 01:49:09 Because if I want to do it, I want to win, right? And I still, like I said, I own 27% of the MAVs. Right, that's fun. Yeah, that's still big time. That's enough fun. Yeah. How much did you pay in fines during your MBA time? Three, four, five million, I have no idea.

Starting point is 01:49:22 What was your biggest fine? Fuck. I think it was $600,000. So I grew up in Pittsburgh and my biggest basketball crush was Julius Irving, Dr. J, right? And so he had me, oh wait, oh, that was bigger, right?

Starting point is 01:49:42 Okay, so we rested these guys. See, I forgot. Oh, this is $750,000? Okay, so we rested these guys. See I forgot. Oh this is 750 grand. Yeah, so I forgot about this one. And so the end of two seasons ago, we weren't gonna make the playoffs and we rested our best players. And even though every other team had been doing it,

Starting point is 01:49:55 they fucked with me and fined me for 750 grand. Damn. Because why? Because fans are coming, the best players should be on the court? No, not necessarily. I mean, cause like when a team is bad, they will do what they can to get a better draft pick.

Starting point is 01:50:07 Cause that's how you're going to get good. Oh, that's what you were saying. So we weren't going to do it. And they said we waited too long, right? Like other teams might tank halfway through the season. They might tank three quarters the way, but because we did it with three games left, they thought that was wrong.

Starting point is 01:50:18 I was pissed when I got that one. Do T I would have been Jesus Christ. I would have been pissed and sleeping outside. Cause I won't, I would have, yeah. I would have been, Jesus Christ, I would have been pissed and sleeping outside. Because I would have been living outside then. Was there one player you always wanted to get that you couldn't get? I mean, I was like Shaq. Shaq was my guy.

Starting point is 01:50:33 Shaq was like, come get me. Come get me. I have a house in Dallas. Come get me. I tried Shaq. That would have been fascinating having Shaq over there. I've heard you talk about crypto a lot. Do you think it's a big part of our future or do you not think it's a big part of our I tried Shaq. That'd have been fascinating having Shaq over there.

Starting point is 01:50:46 I've heard you talk about crypto a lot. Do you think it's a big part of our future or do you not think it's big? I think it can be. I think we don't know for sure yet. I think on one hand, Bitcoin is like the new gold, right? Because it's easy to own. It's easy to use apps to deal with it and everything.

Starting point is 01:51:00 And I think that's a huge plus as opposed to gold where you've got, it's just more difficult to deal with and ain't nobody going to carry a brick of gold, right? If shit hits the fan, right? What are you gonna do? Hey, this is my gold. Oh, you know, I'm not going to work. Um, so I brothers might actually do one of my dogs. Oh, really? Oh yeah. I know a couple of dogs rolled around with a brick maybe, but yeah, but it's just going to create controversy. Different kind of brick.

Starting point is 01:51:21 I'm talking about gold. But yeah, people would be trying to attack you for it. Yeah, right. So I see Bitcoin as having a good future, right? I think for all there's a lot of good reasons. I think Ethereum and some of the other ones are dependent on the applications built around them. So like there's DeFi, which is as a real place so that people can easily trade, borrow loan money and make and make some money, you know, borrow money. I think that's been around a while and that works okay, but it's kind of a stable app. But we really haven't seen that app

Starting point is 01:51:53 that's like the Instagram app, right? Like when iPhones first came out, or the app store first came out, right? There was no one app, right? Then Instagram came along, Snapchat came along, and then the app store blew up, right? There was apps, app, right? Then Instagram came along, Snapchat came along, and then the app store blew up, right? There was apps, apps, apps, apps. We haven't seen that one app that everybody has to use. Yeah, not for, yeah, for crypto. And when that happens, it'll make it a

Starting point is 01:52:14 lot more common. Right. It's a great point. I really thought about that. What's something on the radars that nobody's seeing right now? People are talking about AI and Ozempic prices and, you know, women selling illegal Ozempic outside of a vineyard vines and all kinds of stuff. Yeah, it's happening. And people are talking about the border and politics and, but what's something that you think it's on your radar? That's like a big issue that nobody's talking about.

Starting point is 01:52:37 I think it's more AI than people realize. Yeah. Yeah. I think AI is going to go a lot further. I mean, as processing speeds go like that and the capabilities of AI go like that, the context wins all this other bullshit. Do you have a kid?

Starting point is 01:52:52 I don't have any children. Oh, I thought you had one. I will have one one day, but I don't have any. I gotta get a wife. First things first, right? Yeah. And so, like, if you just had a kid tomorrow, let's just say, right,

Starting point is 01:53:03 and you start collecting all the videos and pictures and things, and over time it turns into emails and texts. You're going to put that all in AI, and your little kid when he's seven, eight years old is going to have an invisible friend, that's an AI. It's some crazy shit that's going to happen. Oh, because it'll be all the information you'd want him to know or whatever you want.

Starting point is 01:53:22 Yeah, exactly right. Right? And can talk to you when you're not there instead of them just going on Instagram or whatever, Snapchat. It's gonna be like. Like you could be, so say you could take like a, say there was like an orb that went in your child's room

Starting point is 01:53:33 like an actual thing you plugged in, like a thing, a fixture, and you could load in through AI like put in these 20 books, this orb should have this knowledge of these 20 books. Yeah, it wouldn't even be an orb. It'll be somebody that looks like a somebody. Oh, let's see what you're saying. So an actual figure, it could be an hologram of someone.

Starting point is 01:53:50 And if my child has any questions, they can ask. And now fast forward 40 years where you're taking all the stuff about the child, right? Right. And so now- And putting that information as well so he'll know how to best relate to the child. Or things he remembers, every memory you ever had. I remember when we were at the park.

Starting point is 01:54:04 Right. Or, you know, tell him, when was that time I went with dad to him? There it is, right? And then when he hits 80 and dies, or 100, let's say, and dies, right? You've got that fake little Joey, right, who just died and lives forever. It's going to be insane. So you'd be able to literally, as you're laying in bed at night, you could turn your grandparents on on the wall through some sort of projector machine.

Starting point is 01:54:27 And talk to them like they're still there. Wow. Or a hologram, yeah. It's gonna be insane. Was there ever, I had an invention, dude. Did you ever have an invention that you wanted to get done, but you never had the time? Not really, because I'm not that creative. Really? Yeah, I'm creative business-wise,

Starting point is 01:54:42 but what's yours? I used to think that they like 15 years ago started thinking well What if they had on your dashboard you could put in something like a CD or something and on your dashboard a Hologram the band would perform on your dashboard It'd be a little bit of a distraction, but it's cool It'd be a little distraction, but it'd be so dope and you can make it over by the passenger just for them But imagine if like a little boost You can do that shit now. You can do that shit now you can do that shit

Starting point is 01:55:05 I'm just one that was one thing I thought and then I thought if they had a dog collars that Because there's a dog that kind of howls behind my house If you could synchronize them you get the neighborhood or regional you get them all the same collar and that's a cool idea They sync and it makes you put that together come on shark tank thing Organized like you know you they would do it like. So you know where he's at by the, so, no, that's cool, right? So if you have a call. Like that dog and another dog down the street,

Starting point is 01:55:32 the caller would have them both howl at the same time. So you would have almost like. The whole, like a little symphony of dogs. A symphony. That's funny as fuck, yeah. If you could do that regionally. So you say you're on their porch, you're relaxing with your wife,

Starting point is 01:55:42 you're sitting there in the swing, and you could just put program a little, you know, some Beethoven and then all the hounds started heating up. Yeah. That was a thought that I had. Right before you go, what's, if there's a young guy who's out there, what's the best advice you would look back and honestly give yourself? I know it's such a generic question, but we have a lot of young men on our podcast who are curious about what's something they can do to hedge their bets for the future and to best take care of themselves. I was the same way. You always think, oh, this is not the job.

Starting point is 01:56:17 This is not where I want to be. I got fired or quit or did a bunch of jobs. I think if I were going to do that again, I would try to be a lot, I'd try to be really good at all those jobs, right? Because A, when you get really good at something, that opens up doors for you, right? Even if you're flipping burgers, right? If you're the best at it, someone's

Starting point is 01:56:36 going to recognize it, right? And if it's not the boss you have right there and then, dude fires you or whatever, you're still going to be good for the next one, right? And when you learn how to be good at something, then you can learn how to be good at other things. And then, because the hard part really is finding somebody you love to do

Starting point is 01:56:53 that you can be great at, right? Because you never thought you'd be doing podcasting, right? No. And you're great at it, but once you find it, right, that's when the shit happens. Yeah, yeah, it took me years to figure it out. It takes all of us years to figure it out, right? You know, I...

Starting point is 01:57:05 Right, and give yourself some grace that you're figuring it out. You don't have to figure out shit when you're 18, 19, 20, 21, 22. You don't know shit. Just don't get somebody pregnant and have fun. Right, right, right. Don't get thrown in jail, get thrown...

Starting point is 01:57:15 Yeah, don't do shit that's gonna, you know, hold you back, right? But, you know, and then I'd add, be curious, right? Because the more you learn, the more doors open up for you. Be agile, right? Be able to bob and weave when shit hits you, right? Because it's going to, you know? And again, if you just can find something

Starting point is 01:57:39 you can be really good at, no matter what it is, nobody quits anything they're really good at. Because that's when you get that satisfaction. that no matter what it is, nobody quits anything they're really good at. That's a great line. Cause that's when you get that satisfaction. I'm the best motherfucking whatever it is, right? And somebody's going to want to pay me because I'm the best. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:57:54 Yeah, and somebody will in a lot of, yeah, like, cause we have, once you start having employees, you start looking for better employees in different spots. And then I bet it becomes a problem. People trying to poach your employees. Has that ever happened? Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. And you just gotta try to connect with them better.

Starting point is 01:58:07 And I mean, look, I'm horrible at hiring people. And so I always try to get somebody who's good at it. Cause I'm a softy, right? Theo, yeah, it's, you know, Theo sells me on why he wants to drive. You'll be great Theo. And then, you know. Yeah, I heard you say in an interview one time,

Starting point is 01:58:22 you said, get on the the job learn it for three months Do the be the best fucking person at it and then at six months if you are the killer at it It might have been a sales job. Go into your boss and say I need a percentage Do this fuck yeah, right? See you think it's a good strategy. It's good. It's just good to have that mindset Yeah, if you work hard you hard, you can figure it out. And if you can learn to sell, you always have a job. Selling's so hard.

Starting point is 01:58:50 It's not, though. I started selling when I was 12 years old. Oh, yeah. Then you have it. Yeah. And I always looked at it like, OK, I'm just trying to help somebody. Whatever I got, I sold garbage bags door to door.

Starting point is 01:59:00 I sold magazines. And I remember, Theo, look, I'm selling you this, all these five magazines for $10 a month. You know, when you tell your wife, you spend $10 a month on the education and enjoyment of your entire family that puts them in the position to get better grades at school, you know, she's going to thank you for it. Yeah. Let's sign that shit up, right?

Starting point is 01:59:21 So if you just look at it as helping somebody, that's a good point. Yeah, that's a good point. If you don't think of it as I'm selling, if you believe in what you're selling to probably helps. Yeah, that sure helps, right? So if you just look at it as helping somebody. That's a good point. Yeah, that's a good point. If you don't think of it as I'm selling, if you believe in what you're selling to probably helps. That sure helps, right? But you could, you should sell a full alphabet up to the people in Pittsburgh, dude, because they're only using half of it up there. Yeah, I love it. There's people up there only using half of it. Um, rumor you wanted to buy Fox news. Is that going to happen? No, that was all bullshit, right? So yeah, somebody asked me, um, Rumor you wanted to buy Fox News, is that gonna happen? No, that was all bullshit, right?

Starting point is 01:59:42 It was? Yeah, somebody asked me, if you could, would you buy extra or Fox News? I'm like, I can't afford it, but if I could, I would. But yeah, I'm not trying, no, that's bullshit. There's a rumor that you wanted to build an entire city in Dallas, like a new city from scratch. No, no, I bought a city.

Starting point is 02:00:00 Oh, you bought a city? I bought a town called Mustang, Texas. If you got any ideas, they'll bring them on. Really, you got a whole city over there? I got a whole town. It's not a city, it's a town. It's got like no people, right? About a town called Mustang, Texas. If you got any ideas, they'll bring them on. Really, you got a whole city over there? I got a whole town. It's not a city, it's a town. It's got like no people, right? But it's like 75 square miles, or acres rather.

Starting point is 02:00:11 And, I got it. a dude I played basketball with was dying of cancer. And he said that his only real asset was this town. It's the only personally owned town in the state, and one of the few in the country. And like old, old friend, and I'm like, okay, Marty, I'll buy it from you.

Starting point is 02:00:30 So it was like $1.9 million. So now I own my own town. One of my other basketball buddies is like the mayor and goes down there and keeps it up to date and everything. So if you've got any ideas. And people live there or it's empty? No, it's pretty much empty. It is? Yeah.

Starting point is 02:00:42 There used to be a strip club that burned down and then we tore all that down. Wow. Do you lease it out for movie sets right now? I would, but I haven't really tried. Right, you gotta get it figured out. Yeah. Wow, okay.

Starting point is 02:00:53 I'm gonna keep that in mind. What would I do with a dang town? I don't know. It's your daughter's birthday coming up you say? Coming up, yeah. Nice. How old is she gonna be? She'll be 21.

Starting point is 02:01:02 No. 21 in Nashville, it's gonna be brutal. Do you feel the responsibility to throw a big party for her? Yes. Yeah? Yeah, that's where I'm taking advantage of, what I can take advantage of. So it's a little bit spoiling her, but she deserves it.

Starting point is 02:01:16 Is she, what's something you really love about her? She's just got a great spirit. She's feisty as hell. She's smart. She's loving. And she's got a sarcastic sense of humor, so she's always giving me shit, right? Which is cool, I like that. Yeah, somebody's gotta give Mark Cuban shit,

Starting point is 02:01:34 somebody's gotta give us all shit. But that's what they say, that's what my kids always say, someone's gotta give you shit, so that's all they do is give me shit. Yeah, that's a pretty generic first statement too, like, well it doesn't have to be you. Right? Not my family.

Starting point is 02:01:47 Oh my God. Dad, you're the worst driver. Dad, you're the worst this. Dad, you're the worst that. Oh my God. Oh, I gotta tell you, I enjoyed this. This is totally different than any other interview I've ever done. Really?

Starting point is 02:01:57 Yeah. Oh, thanks man. Really enjoyed it. Yeah. Well, it's cool to hear that you like being a dad, Mark. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. I appreciate it. Mark Cuban, thank you so much for your time. Thanks, Theo. Really love it. Yeah, I appreciate it mark Cuban. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks. They really appreciate

Starting point is 02:02:21 Reach that ground I'll share this piece of my life out I can feel it

This Past Weekend - E533 Mark Cuban

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