Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 180 - Dr. Death: Harold Shipman

Episode Date: February 24, 2020

Harold Frederick Shipman AKA Dr. Death. Quite possibly the world's most prolific serial killer. From 1975 to 1998, he killed at least 215 people. The real number may be much, much higher. Harold Shipman was a British medical doctor who used the trust his patients placed in him to overdose them with morphine. Most of his victims were elderly. Most also were not terminally ill. He just decided, for reasons only known to him, that it was time for them to go. Head with me to England this week for a look into the life and mind of a very mysterious and quiet killer on another true crime edition of Timesuck. Check out Lynze and I's new horror podcast Scared to Death. Listen on Spotify, Stitcher, iTunes, Youtube, and more! Here's the iTunes link: https://apple.co/2MRMgai We're donating $4,200 to the Equal Justice Initiative Dedicated to freeing wrongfully incarcerated inmates. To find out more, go to https://eji.org/2020 Toxic Thoughts Tour Standup dates: http://dancummins.tvSalt Lake City Feb 28-29 Wiseguy's CLICK HERE for tix! Nashville March 12-14 Zanies CLICK HERE for tix! Huntsville, AL March 15 Stand Up Live CLICK HERE for tix! Philadelphia March 26-28 Punchline CLICK HERE for tix! Honolulu, HI April 5 HB Social Club CLICK HERE for tix!Listen to the best of my standup on Spotify! (for free!) https://spoti.fi/2Dyy41d Watch the Suck on YouTube: https://youtu.be/0mH3Q9SsLIsMerch - https://badmagicmerch.com/ Want to try out Discord!?! https://discord.gg/tqzH89v Want to join the Cult of the Curious private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" in order to locate whatever current page hasn't been put in FB Jail :) For all merch related questions: https://badmagicmerch.com/pages/contact Please rate and subscribe on iTunes and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcast Wanna become a Space Lizard? We're over 7000 strong! Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast Sign up through Patreon and for $5 a month you get to listen to the Secret Suck, which will drop Thursdays at Noon, PST. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. You get to vote on two Monday topics each month via the app. And you get the download link for my new comedy album, Feel the Heat. Check the Patreon posts to find out how to download the new album and take advantage of other benefits.

Today, I'll be talking about an English serial killer, who wasn't nearly as brutal as most of the killers we've talked about over the past few years when it came to his homicidal methods. Certainly, isn't the most sadistic killer we've covered, but he is the UK's and the world's most prolific serial killer when it comes to murders attributed to one person by a governmental investigative agency. Harold Frederick Schippen, a former doctor who has been linked to over 200 murders occurring between 1975 and 1998. Investigators definitively attributed 215 murders to him and estimate he probably killed closer to 250 people. All of these homicides earned him the dark nickname of Dr. Death. Shipman prayed mostly upon the elderly. Of all his murders, only a handful were committed against a person under the age of 50,

and the majority were committed on people 75 and older. He got away with these killings for years by only murdering his own patients and convincing corners in the victim's families that the deaths were natural by forging medical records. And he would have in all likelihood kept getting away with it, had a taxi driver not come forward with concerns over how many patients he'd driven

to Dr. Shipman's office, patients who seemed healthy, but died shortly after their visit. And then he also got greedy and tried to steal an inheritance from one of his victims. Shipman was a walking pilot garbage who took an oath to protect his patients and then got right to kill in over 200 unlucky souls who were in his care.

So strap in and enjoy the fact that this guy is dead. Be glad that odds are your doctor or your grandparents doctor is far less evil than Dr. death. In another true crime, thank Nimrod you haven't had to deal with this asshole addition of TimeSuck. This is Michael McDonald and you're listening to TimeSuck. You're listening to TimeSuck. Happy Monday, MeatSacks. I am feeling a lot better than last week. Partly thanks to my doctor's office and office where I receive a lot better care than doctor shipments patients did

My doctor hasn't killed kill me even one time. So that's good I'm Dan Cummins loose to Venus toilet cleaner Nimrod's most mush mouth disciple Bojangles dog walker and triple limbs rowdy and you are listening to time suck. Thanks for being curious me to sack Got some good feedback on Ruby Ridge. I'm excited to share in the updates. I'm not as pro government as I may have come across last week. I'm not anti militia. I am anti-randy weaver. Not anti-stand up against the government. If that's the right thing to do, even if that does mean an armed resistance. So maybe I can clear a few things up in today's time, sucker updates. And thanks for the continued ratings and reviews, over 11,000 ratings and reviews on iTunes alone, which is great for a podcast, at least I think so. And thanks for subscribing over

on YouTube, over 25,000 subscribers now to Bad Magic Productions, where we put out weekly videos of TimeSuck and my other public podcast, a scared to death, and soon we put in stand standup clips on YouTube as well on the same bad magic channel. Thanks everyone who came out to the rec room at Huntington Beach a few weeks weekends back. I felt like crap, but the shows are a blast. Three out of five were sold out three out of five stars. Having fun telling news stories on the toxic thoughts tour. I also hope I had fun in St. Louis's past weekend. At least three

of the shows were sold out there too. Big thanks to the risotto show, not the risotto show for pushing my standup dates. Apparently I've been fucking their name up a lot because I'm in it. It off to Salt Lake City this week were multiple shows also sold out so lucky. There may only be tickets left to the third show we had on Saturday at this point, the late late show. Then it's off to Zany's and Nashville stand up live and hunt for all the band, my helium and Philly, I'll be at the Hawaiian Bryant's and Honolulu Hawaii. Man, I can't wait for that Sunday, April 5th.

Then I'm off to Dallas Houston, San Antonio, Atlanta, and so much more. All the tour dates up at Dancomans.tv, follow me on Instagram at Dancomans Comedy to get stand up clips and show announcements. Another reminder that thanks to you space lizards who support time suck, we were able to give $4,200 this month to the equal justice initiative. Excited to see who we're donating to next month. Go to egi.org to find out more link in the episode description. And then our February scary true crime theme continues with merch this week. Some more limited edition shirts. We have our last installment of the Class of Hell yearbook series. Henry Lee Lucas, one of the confession killers, Ted Bundy and Harold Chippen, today's piece of

shit, all getting put in the hall of shame, all getting their faces doodled on and giving terrible nicknames. Fast in it with these pieces of shit shit glad a cartoon face won't ever you know glad my cart my face Won't be on a t-shirt like this hopefully ever god that would be terrible twist Lots of other funky stuff of a bad magic merch.com now as well the store has never been cooler time suck and scared to death the secret suck Definitely have their own style thanks entirely to Logan and Kate at the spicy club. Love all the cool stuff they make. Hail Nimrod, Hail Lucifina. And now let's talk about someone who is not super cool.

One of the worst doctors in human history, Harold, Dr. Death Shipman. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Britain's general practitioners, especially when shipment practice medicine, frequently you know one of the pillars of their community, especially if it's a smaller community, offering care, compassion, continuity for their patients. They're trusted by their communities. If you can't trust your doctor, who can you trust?

Shipmen epically betrayed that trust, and the most appalling and distressing way killing hundreds of victims and victimizing arguably the entire nation. Finding out that a long practicing and trusted doctor was responsible for the deaths of over 200 patients was bound to make a lot of people second-guess their own doctors. Who knows how many additional health problems for who knows how many other people herald's actions led to. Like most serial killers, Dr. Death had a distinct way of killing his victims, his modus operandi, over the course of decades and hundreds of murders, his murder pattern was almost always the same. He overdosed his victims, victims who were patients of his with either morphine or

dimorphine, pharmaceutical heroin. He then signed their death certificates and quickly made sure to falsify their medical records to show that the patient's health had been declining in the weeks and months leading up to their deaths In many cases he also urged relatives to incinerate the remains of his victims persuading them that no further investigation would be needed to determine their cause of death. He's a doctor. He's got under control Just sign here and that's it just sign here and that's it. Shipping was cold-calculated, seemingly unemotional with his murders.

Unlike a lot of killers, it's hard to understand exactly why he did it. Although I will share the theory that makes the most sense to me after we've looked into him. We know the motivation for a lot of notorious serial killers. Jeffrey Dahmer was trying to create a living sex life, like a sex zombie. Joseph Duncan was a sexual satis to receive

immense sexual satisfaction, satisfaction, from the torture and killing of his victims, as did Andre Cicatillo, John Wayne Gacy, many, many others. Many, if not most serial killers, are sexual satis who find immense sexual gratification in the suffering and death of their victims, killing is a high, they can't seem to achieve any other way.

Next to sexual satisfaction, money seems to be a common motivator. Bel Gunnus's murders were financially motivated, as were the murders of H.H. Holmes and many others. Some kill for the notoriety that comes with being a serial killer. Think of Alexander Poshushkin, the chessboard killer, who killed primarily because he wanted to have gotten away with murder more than any other serial killer in Russian history. He wanted to, you know, he looked at it like a scoreboard and he wanted to score higher than Chikotilo. Some have serious mommy issues. Think Ed Mother, camper, for some like the Zodiac killer and Dennis Raider, the BTK

killer, the primary motivation seems to be to reinforce a feeling of superiority. The murders were a reason to taunt the police. Some killers seem to get off more on proving to themselves that they're superior to the police by alluding capture than they enjoy the actual act of killing. The motives with the shipment tougher to uncover. He usually did not profit financially from the deaths of his patients. Sometimes, yes, at least once, he didn't seem to forge a will and steal an inheritance, but not typically. He did not receive any sexual satisfaction that we know of from his killings. None of his victims were sexually assaulted in any way before or after their deaths by

shipping. He did not taunt authorities ever with his killings. In fact, through the sneaky way he killed his patients for years, no one knew that murders were even taking place. So why did he kill? Why did this doctor whose job was to keep his patients alive and healthy instead choose to murder them? Taking a look at the totality of his life seems to give us that answer. At least it does for me. Let's see how this sad saga began in today's Time Suck timeline. Harold Frederick Shipman was born on January 14, 1946 in Nottingham, England, a Nottingham's Best Wood Counsel Estate.

Counsel States are a former British public housing, akin to what we'd call the projects here in the US. Not exactly the same, but close. Today, the Best Wood Counsel Estate is notorious for a lot of criminal activity. Gangs, drugs, high murder rate. When Shipman grew up there, it was a blue collar development, populated by low income,

but typically non-criminal hard work in citizens. Nottingham, where bestwood is located is a city in central England of over 300,000 people over 125 miles north of London, 45 miles northeast of Birmingham. An old city famous for literature, Lord Byron once lived and wrote there as a DH Lawrence, also closely linked to the legend of Robin Hood. Robin Hood's main antagonist was the sheriff of notting him, the man who imposed unjust taxes upon the fair people of notting him. Shire. Harold was raised in a working class methodist family and was the

second child of three and the oldest son. His older sister, Pauline, was born almost eight years before he was and his younger brother, Clive, was born four years later, four years after he was. By all accounts, Harold was a bright child and the family had high hopes for him. No one in his family had ever gone on to study university before he would. And when his mom saw college potential and her sweet baby boy, her primary purpose in life began attending to her first born boy. His father was Harold Frederick Ship know, senior, long distance, Laurie driver, and his mother Vera was a homemaker. And Laurie driver is a, is the English equivalent

of a truck driver in America. So American truckers, if you want to sound all posh and refined, tell people you're a Laurie driver, which makes me picture you driving like a black horse drawn carriage wearing a top hat and a monocle for some reason. The Laurie driver is here. Harold Jr. The lower the driver's hair, Harold Jr. was known to friends and family, the grown up is Fred or Freddie, variations of his middle name are Fredric, nicknamed it would follow him for the rest of his life.

And like I hinted at a moment ago, Freddie was Mama's favorite. Vera dooted on sweet Freddie, and she instilled in him in early sense of superiority. They would follow him for the rest of his life. Freddie was a huge mama's boy grown up and Vera controlled who he could talk to or interact with. Can't risk some neighborhood dirt bag,

ride her harlot, tank her sweet, sweet Freddie boy. Roon in his potential. Vera's controlling parental style led to Freddie having few friends and a pretty isolated childhood. So fun for Freddie. How strange and terrible for a parent to obsess over one child to Freddie have in few friends and a pretty isolated childhood. So fun for Freddie. How strange and terrible for a parent to obsess over one child and devote all their energy to making sure that child accomplishes things they might they may not even want to accomplish.

Right. Those kind of parents have always driven me crazy. Feel like I see them most often with sports. It's usually the dad in my experience, the dad who is determined to make sure his boy becomes a starting quarterback or the star point guarder, cleanup batter, ace pitcher, whatever else it was that he wanted to accomplish when he was a kid, but didn't have the talent or the opportunity or the right dad pushing him weird. I let the kid do what makes him happy.

I've yet to see how it's going to play out. But my kids, you know, all they have to do is do their chores. Be respectful or not to contribute to the family household. You know, they have to do their best in class get their homework done Be involved in some kind of extra curricular activity like sports or music lessons or something Right, and then we have a deal in place to help them pay for college and strongly encourage them to either go or if they're not Going to go have a plan to do something else that doesn't acquire college Checking with them asking what they want to do tell them what the reality of that profession is when it comes to income and what type of lifestyle it will allow them to have.

And then just give, you know, we just give as much info as possible. So when they're planning out their future, they have the most knowledge that, you know, that we're able to provide for them. To me, that this approach is based entirely around common sense. What do you enjoy? Can you do that for a job? Will it pay the bills? Yes to all of that? Then have at it. Don't care if you're a doctor or a carpenter or a factory owner or a factory worker. But so many parents can't seem to handle that approach. They have an agenda. Why? Why do people do that? People like Harold's mom Vera. People have to protect their end or project, excuse me, their ambitions and their goals onto their kids. Not a fan.

Not a fan of that approach. Not a fan, not a fan of that approach. Years later, when sweet Freddy's face was plastered across tabloids nationwide for being the most prolific serial killer in British history, an old former neighbor would recall, the Vera was friendly enough, but she really didn't see her family as superior to the rest of us. Not only that, but you could tell Harold was her favorite. The one she saw is the most promising of her three children. Another terrible parent move to obviously prefer one child over the others. So much so that the neighbors noticed

that's so fucked up. Like I joke about my kids a lot in my stand up and I tease my daughter in row especially, but I don't actually favor one of my kids over the other. On any given day, one irritates me more than the other. Or I worry about more, you know, worry more about one than the other. Or maybe I relate to one as this period of their development more than the other. But I try to never show actual favoritism. So, so fucked up. How sad for the kids or kids that aren't preferred, right? To grow up hearing about how great their brother and sister is. If you don't, if you can only act more like Freddie, Freddie got straight A's on his report, Cod. Why can't you get straight A's?

Freddie got a scholarship to the university. Freddie's going to make something of himself. Why don't you work harder to get into university like Freddie? Why don't you want to make some of yourself like Freddie? I wonder if after he was arrested a Freddie's sister and brother had any thoughts of, ah, I knew Freddie was a piece of shit. Mama was wrong.

I might not have went to medical school but at least I didn't kill anyone. Fuck Freddie. Sucks for the kid being favored too, right? Set them up for their siblings to resent him. Poor Pauline and Clive, the perennial silver and bronze medalist of the shipment household, they grew up in Freddie's shadow.

It must have been especially frustrating for Vera who was almost eight years old when Freddie showed up, right? She was number one for damn near eight years. Then new kid shows up and she goes from favorite kid to the kid that needs to be more like favorite kid. His early years of schooling, Freddie did very well, made Mama proud. Then when he reached the upper grade levels, his grades became pretty mediocre. Wonder if Mama just blamed his teachers.

Then jealous of you, Freddie. I don't want to treat you fairly. They know you already know more than them, Freddie. Former classes of describe Freddie as being a quiet loner and reserved when he was in school. Except when it came to sports, there he seemed to break out of his shell a bit. He was athletic. He was really going to rugby.

He was a solid distance runner and track. According to former teammates, he was super competitive, especially as he got older. Then when he was 16, 17, he played sports with an angry edge, which made sense. He was, he was angry at that time. He was angry with his mother. He was now dying of lung cancer. On June 21, 1963, when she was only 43 years old, Vera succumbed to the disease that had been ravaging her body for months. And Freddie naturally was devastated. The woman who loved him more than anyone else in the world was now gone. The person who made him feel the most special, the person he tried so hard to please, to live up to her expectations.

For months leading up to her death, he'd been watching cancer destroy his mother. Every day when school let out, he'd hurry home and make his mother a hot cup of tea and chat with her. Sit by her bed. Tell her how school was going, talk about plans for the future, ask her how she was feeling and what the doctor was saying about her prognosis and the prognosis was always bleak. And while her illness hit her whole family hard, it seemed to hit Harold the hardest. He wanted to get in every minute with

his mother that he could while she was still with him. He spent more time with her than his brother and sister did, which was exactly what she preferred. She counted the minutes as she waited for him to make it home from school. Her time with Freddie was the highlight of her day. This is likely when Freddie decided he would become a doctor. And this is when Freddie learned to have the bedside manner that his early patients, when he worked later as a family physician, would love about him. If only they knew that in many cases, while he sat near them and smiled and listened carefully to their complaints and concerns, he was planning to kill them.

Toward the end of her life, Vera was constantly in severe pain. Her only relief from the agony of cancer came from her family physician who would inject her with morphine, just like Harold would later inject his patients with morphine. And Freddie so often, his mother's side watched many of these injections take place. How much did this influence his later murders? Did he at least initially want to ease his patient's sufferings when he gave them a lethal dose? Or would he spend much of his later life continually

just recreating his mother's final moments with his patients? Some kind of sick, weird fantasy. Did he recreate his mother's final scene over and over again, a patient a cup of tea nearby sitting with their doctor finding sweet relief and morphine to try and I don't know just access the The the feelings he had with his mother to be there with her again to to wanted to kind of do it over somehow I don't know 1965 two years after his mother's passing when he he was 19, despite others later recalling him

having a healthy superiority complex in an arrogant way about him, despite seeming to always feel like he was the smartest man in the room, Freddie initially failed his medical entrance exams. To his credit, he didn't let the failure break him. He'd redouble the study efforts, took the exam again and passed it.

Also to his credit, he did so well the second time that he received a scholarship to start studying at Leeds University Medical School, where he would also serve his mandatory hospital internship. So often leads, he goes, leads just 70 miles north of Nottingham. The big city leads, the second biggest city in all of England, with a metro area population of over two and a half million. Also super random trivia for all you bubble water drinkers, carbonated water, aka soda water, aka sparkling and celtier water invented in leads England in 1767 by Joseph Priestly.

When he discovered a method of infusing water with carbon dioxide by accident in a beer brewery, he wrote of a peculiar satisfaction after drinking it. And then in 1772, he published a paper titled in pregnant water with fixed air. And people have been loving pregnant water ever since everybody else here in the set dungeon likes to pregnant water other than me, I think I don't care. I like tonic. So I guess I like a certain kind of belly water. I don't care for the soda water. Joe, Lindsey Harmony, love it. Not sure where Zach stands on it.

A lot of famous people have come from leads, none more than more famous than Melanie Janine Brown, AKA Mel B, AKA Supersexy, scary spice to the spice girls. Did you know that the spice girls are the top selling girl group of all time worldwide? 85 million record sold. Destiny's Child didn't even sell that many records. They sold 23 million copies of their first album, Spice.

And to this day, drunk bachelor at parties are still butchering wannabe at bars across the world. If you want to be my lover, you got to get with my friends, make it last forever. Friendship never ends. I can just picture just hammered women like up on a table singing that song, arms round each other. And what does this have to do with Harold Freddy Shipman,

AKA Dr. Death? Well, Melanie Jane Chisholm, AKA Melanie C, AKA Sporty Spice, is Freddy's niece. And when she was a little kid, she accompanied Freddie on at least two of the house calls He made when he killed some of his patients She saw them die and that experience would lead her to later write a minor spice girls hit move over Hold it down feel the noise let him know it's a fight pick it up. It's alive hold it down feel the noise

Be sure and talk about that with the topic of the spice girls come up If you want everyone to think you're a deranged fucking lunatic because that is not true. I just got stuck in the spice girl wormhole when I found out Mel B was from leads and as usual, I decided to make a weird for all of you back to real information now. In leads at medical school Harold remained an outsider, a loner. But classmates would later say he didn't have to be they'd say he had every opportunity to be part of the in groups, be one of the cool kids, but he wasn't interested. He didn't care. He continued to play rugby, run for a track and field. He was good. He was also considered

to be good looking. He just made no effort to be part of the school social life. Many of his former teachers and fellow students would barely remember him at all. Interestingly, some who did remember him claim that he looked down on them seemed to be confused by the way most young people chose to behave. One said it was it was it was it was it was as if he tolerated us. If someone told a joke he would smile patiently, but Fred never wanted to join in. It seems funny because I later heard he'd been a good athlete. So he'd have thought he would have been more of a team player. And a former teacher said, I don't think he ever had a girlfriend. In fact, he took his older sister to school dances.

They made a strange couple. But then he was a bit strange. He was a pretentious lad. Weird man, taking your older sister to school dances. What? It's creepy. Can we all agree that's creepy? You know, it's creepy. Can we all agree that's creepy? You know it's 1965 other kids are starting to become hippies and flower children starting to grow their hair out smoke pot drop acid Rock out make free love and you're going to a school dance with your big sis It's almost eight years older than you Hopefully he and Pauline were bumping and grinding Hopefully she wasn't leaning forward in some fish nets in a miniskirt, slam

and arouse up against his junk. Well, I gave her butt a few slaps. Pretty sure people didn't do that back then. I think I'm thinking that happened a lot more when I went to school, at least in the two live crew videos that I would watch over and over. Oh, my kids, Kyler and Roe were always close, but I don't ever need to see them in the same school dance photo, Not as a couple. Luckily around the end of 1965, beginning of 1966, Harold starts dating his future wife.

She's not a sister. He starts dating a 17 year old local farmer's daughter, Primrose Mae Oxtoby. He met her at a leads bus stop. Her background was similar to Fred's. Her mother restricted her friendships, controlled her activities. She'd have had a very sheltered childhood.

So if our primrose was delighted to have finally found a boyfriend, and I gotta say, the two made for an odd looking couple. Not that Harold had Hollywood leading man looks, but he was significantly more attractive than primrose. To a degree, you just don't see very often, which is why I mentioned it here Visually odd In a way it would be odd if like Brad Pitt or Leonardo DiCaprio

We're suddenly romantically linked to Melissa McCarthy or Kathy Bates Like if you're casting a sitcom and you needed someone to play a lonely Virgin Cat lady with a haircut and a way of dressing that was completely devoid of any sexuality. You would cast at least looks wise a young primrose shipment. And I feel like this speaks, I'm bringing it up. I feel like it speaks to Freddie's social loner sheltered mama's boy identity. I don't know if you've ever known a guy who is painfully shy or anti social with the opposite sex and then ends up just marrying the first girl bold enough to get my handy Randy right bold enough to take the lead show obvious romantic interest in them.

Someone who isn't exciting isn't really attractive but a stable dependable won't cause problems a safe choice the choice mom would approve. Right I have I have met some of these guys I think it's some of these guys when I was younger and I feel like a Harold picking Primrose reads, is this kind of choice to me? A choice Lose of Fena would find terribly boring. I realize I'm speculating a lot here, but do a Google image search of Harold and Primrose shipment and tell me I'm wrong.

That he's a weird dude. I just felt like he was that easy choice. Like, oh, okay, fine. The couple gets married when Primrose was five months pregnant with their first child in November 5th, 1966. They didn't wait to get busy. Their daughter Sarah would be born on February 14th, 1967. The young couple would go on to have a total of four children. Primrose would stick by Freddie's side for his entire life.

She was totally devoted to him in a way you don't often see when it comes to the spouses of convicted killers. She'd later defend him and believe he was innocent during his trial. Not, you're not her sweet Freddy, he just couldn't have done it. She would believe he was innocent. You know, after he was convicted and imprisoned, she may have questioned him at the very, very end.

We'll get to that later, but up until the very end of his life, she was totally committed to, nope, there's no way he could have done it. And I do think she would believe after he passed that he still didn't do it. We don't know much else about Fred's medical school years. Outside of a few people thinking he was pretentious, no one else seems to have thought about him at all.

Didn't stand out and he was largely pretty forgettable. 1970, Freddie and Primrose have their second child and first boy, Christopher is born on April 21st. A few weeks later, Freddie graduates from leads becoming a junior houseman at the Pontifract general infirmary in West York shot. Junior houseman was a time used for doctors who had just graduated from medical school but hadn't practiced medicine yet. They were required to work under the supervision of more established doctors and medical staff until they proved they were competent enough not to kill patients on their own. And despite appearing to Dr. Shipman may have begun to kill his patients almost immediately

after leaving medical school, he was able to convince other doctors that he was, you know, not killing his patients. Which is probably the most important thing a doctor should prove. That's the thing you got to nail the most if you're a young doctor. I don't needlessly kill my patients. Very next year, 1971 is when many think he may have killed for the first time. Within months of obtaining his license to practice medicine, 67-year-old Margaret Thompson dies on his watch.

She was recovering from a stroke. Hospital records indicate that shipment was alone with her when she died. It looked like her recovery was going well, and then she took a very sudden turn for the worse. None of the deaths that occurred on shipment's watched prior to 1975 would be able to be officially proven, to be murders, but Tom Sons death would fit the pattern he would continue his entire grandma and grandpa killing career, mostly grandma's.

A patient who shipmen was giving painkillers too would suddenly die well before anyone expected them to die and then obviously die under his care. The following year, right, in October of 1972, after possibly quietly killing several other patients battling cancer, he kills a toddler, a young girl who's only four years old. She dies on October 11th.

Susan Garfett had cerebral palsy. She was at Pontifract, the day she died with a bad case of pneumonia. Her mother and Garfett, remembers Dr. Shipin telling her in a soothing voice that her child was going to die in the near future and that medicating her any further would just prolong her suffering. Mrs. Garfet asked him to please be kind to her child that she stepped out for a cup of tea when she returned after not being gone for more than 10 minutes a nurse told her that her daughter Susie had died. She was shocked and in retrospect she wanted wanted if Shibbon had taken her request

as an unspoken piece of consent to euthanize her daughter. Later on, an inquiry commission would decide that Shibbon had likely given this child a lethal injection. Man, what the fuck? Can you imagine if you're a parent, a doctor is saying that to you, like your kid is batting some horrible chronic illness and they tell you, hey, no, you love your kid and stuff, but I'm sure your kid would like to live as long as possible.

You know, maybe that's just a few more days, or weeks, or months, but what do you think about just getting this kind of over with now? Just, you know, just kind of maybe letting me put her down. I would lose my fucking mind. Right, if a doctor, you know, said anything remotely like that to me, what do I think about just, you know, not giving her medicine, letting her go?

I don't know, what do you think about me coming back here with the gun and lighting you the fuck up? Give her the medicine! Ah, 1974. The father of two starts working as a general practitioner at the Abraham Omrod Medical Center in Todd Morton, West Yorkshire. Todd Morton just under 30 miles west of Leeds. It's a quaint little market town of around 15,000 people. And here shipment initially thrives, but quickly starts to make some enemies. Many former colleagues would recall him off and acting unnecessarily rude, going out of his way to make other colleagues look and feel stupid, a word he frequently used to describe anyone he didn't like. He

was confrontational and combative. He seemed to enjoy belittling and embarrassing others. He was pushy. It was his way or the wrong way. He seemed to think he, youative, he seemed to enjoy belittling and embarrassing others. He was pushy. It was his way or the wrong way. He seemed to think he knew more than just about anyone else he worked with, even when he was working with much more experienced doctors. He was very arrogant, not yet 30 years old, shipment to become a control freak. And he got away with being an asshole for a few years because while he wasn't well liked, he was a skilled doctor. His doctor skills

were respected. He did seem to effectively treat his patients, at least the ones he didn't think were going to die soon anyway, so he might as well kill him. Then a few years into his practice at Todd Morden, something went wrong. His career as a doctor almost came to a quick end. Shortly after he started to complain to his colleagues about his physical health, you know, having some problems, including the experiencing a few blackouts. He initially told his partners that he was suffering from epilepsy, which was not true. He used the inaccurate diagnosis of epilepsy as a cover-up for an addiction to painkillers. By saying he had epilepsy, he claimed, you know, he would need a ride to and from work because it wasn't safe for him to drive.

And it wasn't safe for him to drive, but not because of epilepsy. He was high on morphine. The truth was discovered when his receptionist, Marjorie Walker, stumbled upon some disturbing entries at a local drugist controlled narcotics ledger. The record shows that she had been prescribing unusually large and frequent amounts of pathodine in the names of several patients. Moreover, he'd written numerous prescriptions for the drug on behalf of the practice,

for them to just have on hand for patients. Although this was not unusual, drugs were kept on hand for emergencies and immediate treatments. The prescribed amounts were excessive and added up to more than they actually had in their inventory. Pathodine is a morphine-like analgesic, a pain reliever that was initially thought to have no addictive properties.

Now the World Health Organization classifies it as being dangerously addictive. Dr. Shipman was looking like a junkie hooked on what was essentially medical grade heroin. By 1976 his medical colleagues have discovered his addiction. They knew who's writing fraudulent prescriptions for large amounts of the opiate for his own personal use. He also quite likely was using the drug to kill a number of patients. Following the discovery of shipments overprescribing a covert investigation by the practice followed. A fellow doctor, Dr. John Daker, discovered that many of his patients on the prescription

list had neither required nor ever receive the drug they could challenge Fred in a staff meeting I'd be dacker as one of his partners doctor Michael Greve would later recall we sat around with Fred sitting on one side and up comes John on the opposite and says now young Fred can you explain this and he puts before him evidence that he had been gleaning showing that young Fred had been prescribing pathody into patients and that they'd never received the pathody and in fact the pathodyne had found its way into Fred's very own veins. No idea why Dr. Daker referred to him as young Fred by the way, isn't that quote there? It's never made clear. I'm guessing that was maybe there was another Fred of the practice. Maybe I guess he had to go by old Fred. Maybe he just got to be Fred

or maybe Dr. Daker was just weirdo who had, you know, would add unnecessary qualifiers to people's names. Why young Fred? Have you met Frumpy Jane, Husky Ted? Frumpy Jane took over for the big bottom billy, who started this practice quite a few years back with wonky eyed Jim and stinky Gina.

Realizing his career was on the line, Fred begged for a second chance. He admitted to abusing pathodine and basically wanted to be given a clean slate and assured his fellow doctors that he can handle it but uh... because uh... he was an asshole to a lot of his uh... fellow colleagues they told him uh... nope that's not gonna cut it you're done here shipping became and rage stormed out hurling his medical bag to the ground

threatening to resign in a big show as partners were shocked by how angry he became the head and seen the side of him before shortly after his he left his wife, Primrose stormed back into his office where his peers were still discussing the best way to dismiss him. Always thinking that nothing could ever be sweet Freddy's fault. She told the other doctors that her husband would never resign and yelled at them that they would have to force him out. You want, you want, you want Freddy? You want Freddy? You want Freddy? You want Freddy? You want Freddy? Not my Freddy. Weird, man. I think I'd be a little embarrassed at my wife barging in this some office. You want Freddy? You want Freddy? You want to go quietly? Isn't that my Freddy?

Weird, man. I think I'd be a little embarrassed at my wife barging into this some office, you know where I worked and yelling my coworkers for threatening to fire me. I feel like I'd give someone shit for a long time if I saw that happen. Like anytime a situation got contentious after that, it would be hard not to say stuff like, do you want to talk this out? You're just going to storm out again and send your wife in to yell at us. You had to send in your wife. You had to just, oh, you're so sad. Took two years, but ultimately, Dr. Shippen was forced out of the practice for whatever reason they weren't able to just immediately kick him out.

I guess Primrose was right, right? It was going to be hard. They did have to force him out. Two years later, he's caught red handed and Lawns' force was brought in. He was fined 600 pounds on drugs and forgery charges, right? They caught him with the morphine again. While he was not barred from being a doctor, he did receive a warning letter from the general medical counsel, England's GMC.

He was forced undergo psychiatric treatment in a drug rehab facility near York. If you wanted to continue to practice medicine, so he did so. He was out of work for over a year. Before being sent to rehab on March 17, 1975, he kills his first official victim. And the only killing authorities would later be positive he carried out during his short stint as a GP in Todd Morden. An autopsy would later confirm that evil lions, a 70-year-old woman, was given an intentional overdose by Shipman in Todd Morden.

Evil lions was suffering from terminal cancer when Shipman paid a visit to her home and he gave her an intravenous injection into the back of her hand. And as we've noted, she is probably not the first person he killed by a long shot. Investigators think he likely killed three other patients 1975 in Todd Morden, but he just wasn't quite enough evidence to be certain in those other cases. 1977 Shipman is back in business. He gets accepted onto the staff at Donnie Brook Medical Center, a group practice and hide in the Greater Manchester area, just 30 miles from Todd Morden.

Dr. Jeffrey Moisey of the Center would later explain. His approach was that I've had this problem, this conviction for abuse of pethydeam. I have undergone treatment. I am now clean. All I can ask you to do is trust me on this issue and to watch me. But don't watch me too close because I got to owe so many menace and grandpups to finish off. I will kill all of you menace! Dr. Moisey and the other GPs of Donnie Brook felt that his honesty about his past opioid

addiction was admirable. And they felt good about giving him a second chance. And he seemed to be a lot less of a dick at Donnie Brook than he'd been back at Todd Morden. He did earn a reputation for being an arrogant asshole towards the junior staff, but he was cool to his colleagues. And I'd never mean enough to have anyone want him to be fired.

He's just a guy who was sometimes an asshole in a world full of other people who are sometimes assholes. Mostly he appeared to be a hardworking doctor who enjoyed the trust of his patients, colleagues, and community as a whole. He would remain on staff at Donnie Brook for almost two decades, working there throughout the 1980s, building up a massive list of patients and doing a whole heap of netta murder in 1978.

Investigators would later determine that shipment had murdered at least four people. Two of the murders were committed in August, two were committed in December. The youngest of the victims was 73. The following year on March 20th, 1979, his son David is born. He also killed at least two more people in 79. Alice Maud Gorton, 76, and Jack Leslie Schelmerding, who was 77.

He may have taken 1980 off from the murder, from murdering. He's got a baby and two other kids at home, probably not getting enough sleep to properly focus on overdosing his patients. 1981, he kills at least one woman and then it kills at least one more 1982, both were over 80 years old. And then in 1982, Freddie and Primrose's fourth and final child, Sam is born, another boy.

Sam cries a lot due to colic for the first year of his life and Freddie will later confess to considering overdosing his son at numerous points. His logic was that no one would suspect anything since he and his wife had already raised three children out of infancy and no reports of abuse. You know, we're made against him. He knew that he could slip his son just a little too much morphine Make it look like a case of SIDS. He also wasn't worried about his wife Primrose being being overly strict with grief because Sam really did cry so much and everyone in the family thought he was a shitty kid and he knew that deep down they all kind of wanted him dead. JK, Fred did not consider his own kid, killing his own kid, but I'm aware of.

I do wonder though, if he'd been casually killing patients for years in a way that no one was detecting, was he ever tempted to off some non-patient, right? Like if I killed 10, 20 people at work, no one ever suspected a thing. Now, if I knew exactly how much more fiend to make it look like they just passed away in their sleep or something and there would never be an autopsy, would I use that skill to get rid of people who were just a problem for me in the rest of the world? Yeah, yeah.

Of course, I would. If I didn't have a moral problem with murder, that sense. Like if you knew how to kill somebody and you'd already killed several people and you always got away with it. And then you had like, I don't know a neighbor who just wouldn't turn their music down. No matter how many times you fucking ask them nicely, please come on, it's after 10 p.m. right? It just bleeds to the wall, we're just trying to get some sleep. Can you please listen to Skinnerd a fucking earlier in the day. That's all right. And there's like, man, fuck you, man, fuck you. I'll listen to my shit. How I want, man? How we're fucking loud? I want man. You suck

my dick out, fucking skinned all goddamn night. You know, God, please, please, just a little, a little less loud in the evening. I mean, would it not be tempting to maybe just sneak in there? I don't know, maybe break one of his gas lines, make it look like it was a carbon monoxide poisoning, really just fucking morphine him, no, right into permanent sleep. I don't know. Why am I thinking about this so much? Harold, I don't even have a problem with the neighbor right now. My neighbor that I had a problem with is gone, so I don't need have a problem with the neighbor right now. You know, my neighbor that I had a problem with is gone. So I don't need to kill anybody, but I'm just saying, you know, if I could

and I didn't have a moral problem with it, I'm just surprised that he just, you know, he kept it at work. You know, he was good about compartmentalizing, right? He didn't seem to have ever done anything like that. He left work at work. 1983, Shippen kills at least two more victims. One was 90, the other was 77.

He's like a one man grandparent extermination service. In 1983, shipping is also interviewed on the flagship BBC show Panorama in a documentary called World in Action, discussing the treatment of the mentally ill in the community. And I looked for that 1983 documentary, it's very hard to find.

It can be possible to find. Damn it. I would have loved to have played a clip. I would love if there was some weird outtake that they never aired at the time, but then they looked at later like, oh my God, he wasn't kidding. So how do you think Dr. Shem and we should take care

of in a perfect situation? What's the best way to treat the mentally ill? I would just give them a morphine until they didn't break up and then really don't have to worry about it, do you? Just give them too much morphine and then their problems go away and then no longer burden on society. And we've thinned the herd a bit and things are much better

for all. I wouldn't you think? So I don't know if that was ever said. 1984. The pace of his murder is picks up considerably starting January 7th, at least nine murders are attributed to him one murder even committed on Christmas Eve Euthanized without permission aka murdered Eileen Teresa Cox. He was 72 He kills at least 11 more people in 1905 including four between February 1st and February 22nd as well as three in December

All but one of the murders fit the normal shipment mo he visits an elderly patient the youngest being 69 the oldest being 85 this year and then you know gives him the death juice and then he bounces. One murder was a typical for shipment in 85 he killed Peter Lewis who was only 41 years old on January 2nd Freddie arrived at the home of Lewis 7 pm on New Year's day. I guess I guess you know he does something New Year's Day. I guess, I guess, you know, he does something on New Year's Day, but I guess, you know, his time of death would be attributed to January the next day, early the next morning. He carries his doctor's bag, was actually escorted by his wife, Primrose, who sat on the

sofa while her husband killed Peter. 41 years old, cared for her by his intelligence, articulate school teacher wife. Mr. Lewis was much younger than typical shipment victim. Despite his much younger age, he was every bit as weak as the elderly ladies who had been such easy targets for shipment. He had been diagnosed with inoperable cancer, which had spread from his stomach to the rest of his body. He returned home from the hospital on Christmas day 1904 to die in his home and argument

could be made that this killing and maybe some of the other killings were mercy killings, maybe some kind of assisted suicide, but, but none of these people asked for this. There was not a record of Peter Lewis or of any other shipment victim being suicidal before he killed them. No record of any of the members of their families recalling the victim wanting shipment to help them along to the other side. No, he seems to have just played God and made the decision for himself about, you know, when they should die over and over again. And the murder of Peter Lewis, despite the terminal diagnosis, again, does not seem to

be a mercy killing. Peter wasn't a great deal of pain that day, and Shipman came over to give him a morphine injection. He asked Mr. Lewis's wife to hold a needle for him while he injected what was going to be the lethal dose. She wouldn't do it. She didn't handle the side of blood very well, so she left the room. When she returned to the room, she saw shipment with one hand around her husband's throat.

How fucking weird is that? She later said, when she first saw it happen, she looked like shipment was trying to strangle him. Then when she asked what the doctor, the doctor what he was doing, he said that he was preventing Mr. Lewis from swallowing his tongue.

Uh-huh, yeah, right. He was finishing him off. I wonder what happened. Mr. Lewis gets suspicious, did Freddie say. Uh-huh, yeah, right. He was finishing him off. I wonder what happened. Mr. Lewis gets suspicious. Did Freddie say something to him? And then he was worried he'd repeat that to his wife. I think this might be it because right before walking in on Dr. Shemman choking her husband,

his wife would later swear that she had heard the doctors say, give it up lad, you've all had enough. We can't take it anymore. Sounds like shipment decided it was time for Peter to die. So he died. He didn't feel like coming around for any more house calls. The following year, 1986, shipment kills at least eight more times. The youngest was Beatrice Toft at 59.

The oldest was James Wood at 82. 1987, another eight murders are attributed to shipment. He kills at least seven more times in 1988 most dying in the winter months like they had every year. He almost always killed during the winter. Why? Well, with so many elderly patients catching colds and fluids on top of their other illnesses, he was able to conceal the killings under the guise of complications from said illnesses much easier in the winter, which again speaks to these murders not being mercy killings. They were, you know, crimes of opportunity.

He was able to get away with it. So he did, right? If he was just helping along older people in pain, why wouldn't he help him along in the summer? 1989, he kills no less than 12 more times. He kills six between September 22nd and November 6th alone. And from 1990 to 1992, only a handful of murders have been proven. No one knows why he seems to have slowed down at this time.

Maybe he experienced some kind of close call. Maybe he almost got caught. You know, he wanted to take it easy for a little bit. Maybe Primrose told him to stop killing his patients and he was like, yes, mommy, I mean, yes, wife. 1993, he surprises his fellow doctors at his group practice by bailin opening up his own office at 21 Market Street in the middle of town. He takes his approximately 3000 patients with him and his partners are both caught off guard

and not pleased. Dick Moe Freddie. Shibbon had a very successful solo practice after that. Now he really gets to killing now that he's under less supervision. While Shibbon is thought to have killed at least 71 patients while at the Donnerbrook practice, he has believed he would killed at least 170 while he was working as a solo practitioner at his surgery in Market Street. And a surgery, by the way, is what they call a medical clinic in England.

Going to surgery is synonymous with going to the doctor's office in America. So if you're an American and an English friend tells you he's heading out for surgery, it might not be as bad as you think. 1993. The now 47 year old shipment, murders no less than 15 people. On February 24th, he kills two elderly women in the same day. He kills at least 11 more in 94. Again, mainly elderly women, couple of dudes thrown in as well.

1995, the homicide numbers almost triple investigators would later identify 28 shipment murders that took place between January 9th and December 14th 28 killed seven people in March alone. Two of his victims of 95 were under the age of 50 the youngest Conrad Peter of bar of Peter Avko, Robinson, was only 43. 1996, he killed at least 30 people, 30. He killed someone in every single month in 1996. 1997, there are only nine murders on record attributed to shipment. All nine of them happened between January 2nd

and February 28th. Many think he likely continued to kill at a similar pace after that, but reasons are unclear or four reasons that are unclear It became harder to attribute deaths to Sheppan after February 1997 he found some new sneaky way to do it March 1998 a local undertaker Deborah Massey finally notices that Shipman's patients are really fucking dying a lot of the time like way more than the other doctors She starts to think that he is either killing his patients or he is the worst fucking doctor of the time, like way more than the other doctors. She starts to think that he is either killing his patients or he is the worst fucking doctor of all time.

She notices that almost all of his patients die while in a similar pose, right, the way they're found. Most are fully closed. They're usually sitting up or reclining, right, on a sofa. She brings up her concerns to her father, Alan Massey, who runs the family funeral home. He's concerned enough about what his daughter has noticed that he decides to approach shipment about this directly, who reassures him that there was nothing to be concerned about.

Luckily, Deborah doesn't just drop it when Freddie tells her there's nothing to worry about, which would be pretty crazy to do. I mean, how often is approaching somebody that you think might be a murderer and asking them if they've been murdering led to a confession. Like, fuck it, almost never. I'd get out of here. And Dr. Shipman, please, Deborah, call me Freddie. Freddie, I hate to bother you, but my dad and I started putting some puzzle pieces together

recently and we came to the conclusion that you've probably been murdering a whole bunch of people for a long time. Before I went to the police, I just wanted to ask you, have you been murdering? Have you been killing a lot of your patients? No, Deborah, I've not been doing that. Oh, oh, well, okay, then, good cut. No, I feel silly. So glad I just didn't go to the police first

and waste their time since you, I mean, you clearly didn't do it. I mean, I asked you very clearly. And then I said, no, you sure did! Apologies, apologies, Freddie. did. Apologies, apologies Freddie. I won't bring it up again. No, Deborah goes to Dr. Linda Reynolds of the Brook Surgery in Hyde and prompted by Deborah and her dad,

Dr. Reynolds expresses concerns to John Pollard, the corner for the South manchester district about the high death rate among shipments patients. In particular, they're concerned about the large number of cremation forms for elderly women that had needed to be counter-signed. She suspected that shipment was either through negligence or intent killing these women, her father, Alan, told the corner, anybody can die in a chair, but there's no set pattern. And Dr. Shipments always seemed to be the same or very similar.

Could be sat in a chair, could be laid on the setty, but I would say 90% are always fully closed. There was never anything in the house that I saw that indicated the person had been ill. It just seemed that the person where they were had died. There was something that just quite didn't fit. And then the corner alerted the police. Then shipments patient records are examined without him being alerted to the fact that they're being examined by the police. and they look clean. The causes of death and the treatments do match up perfectly. What the police do not discover during this initial investigation is that Shepan had been

rewriting his patient's records after he killed him to make it look like they were in much worse shape than they were actually in to make their deaths look less suspicious. And apparently if they would have just documented things more thoroughly or inspected, excuse me, the documents more thoroughly, they would have discovered this. The shipment inquiry that would later determine that shipment had killed way, way more people than he would go to prison for would cast blame on British police for butchering this initial investigation stating that they should have assigned more experienced offers to the case and that those more experienced officers would have noticed the medical records

had been forged. Between April 17th, 1998, when the police abandoned the investigation initially, and Shipman's eventual later arrest, he would kill at least three more people. The initial investigation may have helped catch Shipman, though, by making him deviate from his normal MO and get sloppy. He may have felt like the walls were closing in on him now and desperately tried to make a big chunk of money off his final victim to help possibly finance a quiet escape from the area.

That's one line of thought. Another is that not getting caught the first time emboldened him. Made him think he was so much smarter than everybody else. So much smarter that he could just easily talk his way to trouble if the police ever came back for him again. Just show them more falsified documents, trick them again, and because he felt even more untouchable, he took things further, got greedy, and then got caught. Still other speculate that for reasons known only to him, he wanted to get caught. Before we go further and go over the murder that will get him caught, it is time for our first sponsor. Today's time, so is brought to you by Dr. Shipman's Papa and Nana extermination service.

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Don't delay. You're just a needle and some morphine away from having what you were gonna get tomorrow today. Dr. Shipman's pop on Nanx Termination Service is not responsible for legal consequences. May arise, we have your grandparents murdered. They're also not responsible for any backlash brought on by this terrible insensitive fake yet.

Okay, forget about that horrible fake company. We have real good companies to talk about now. And now I'm back to today's tale. Never left. If you're watching on YouTube, here's how this final murder went down. The one that would get him caught. Let's head to June 24th, 1998, a former mayor, S of Hyde, a wealthy widow, a patient of Dr. Shipman, Kathleen Grundy, Kathleen Grundy dies suddenly at the age of 81. All who knew her, extremely surprised.

Kathleen was active in good health, was a tireless worker for local charities until the literal day of her death. Her absence was noted when she failed to show with the age concern club a place where she helped serve meals to elderly pensioners because she was noted for her punctuality and reliability. When she doesn't show, her friends immediately suspect that something bad has happened. Then they go to her house to check on her, and they find her lying on the sofa,

fully dressed, totally dead. They immediately call her doctor, Freddy Shipman. He'd been to her house just a few hours earlier, it was the last person to see her live. He claimed the purpose of his visit had been to take blood samples for a study on aging. She wasn't even sick. He conveyed the news of her passing

to her daughter, Angela Woodruff, telling her that her mother had simply died of old age, natural causes. Shippen also told Angela that no post-mortem would be required. He was confident after respecting her body, that she died naturally. No need to investigate. Angela had never thought of Dr. Shippen as anything

but a good doctor, but despite his claim of natural causes, she was immediately suspicious. It does not make sense to her. Her mother had been found sitting in the sofa that no one had could ever remember her ever sitting in before. She had never sat on that sofa to their memory. She was also found facing away from the window in the front door when she was known to always face the window in the door. Whenever she sat down in that room, the room she was found dead in, her death just felt staged. It felt wrong. It just did not make sense to them. On July 1st, 1999, hundreds of mourners attend Mrs. Grundy's funeral at Hyde Chapel, greater Manchester, her family, you know, still found the circumstances of her death very troubling, but no one was ready to go to the police

until her will was read. Solicitor Brian Burgess notified Angela of the existence of another will that Angela did not know about. A will that was very different than the will she had helped her mother right out 12 years earlier. The new will now excluded her and her family from her mother's inheritance and left everything to sweet old Mr. Harold Freddy shipment. It read, I give all my estate, money and house to my doctor. My family are not in need, and I want to reward him for all the care he has given me and the people of hide. Big time alarm bells are going off now. Shipman is just trying

to give himself an inheritance value to roughly 400,000 pounds. Angela, who was a lawyer herself and a very good one, her family, they felt this was absurdly clumsy. This is an obvious forgery. Obviously fake signature. Had Dr. Shipman just gotten cocky over the years? Did he think this shitty forgery would convince her family this was a real will? Was he so arrogant that he thought they were that stupid? Angel later said at Shipman's trial,

my mother was a meticulously tiny person. Thought of her in a document, just so badly typed, didn't make any sense. The signature looked strange, you looked too big. The concept of mom, sign in a document leaving everything to her doctor was unbelievable. Initially, Angela wanted of shipman

was being framed somehow. But after interviewing witnesses to the signing of this will, she concluded that the doctor had murdered her mother for profit and forged the will. Paul Spencer, one of the attendance at Shipman's Surgery, was one of the witnesses she interviewed. He thought he was signing a medical document when he was asked to put his signature on what would be Kathleen Grundy's falsified will. He did it without question.

He even reported that it was folded over with just the space for the signature showing, so he couldn't even see the details of the will. And he said that Mrs. Grundy's signature was already on it when he signed it. This makes me think about all the things that I have signed without actually reading what I am signing. Like when I meet you with my accountant for taxes at the end of the year or when Lindsay had everything prepared for my well recently actually. 10 different pages, you know, if I like it, I was supposed to sign, you know, and all these other pages of just documents, you know, I'm gonna hurry and need to get back to work.

I don't wanna take literally three, four hours to carefully read everything. You know, I just trust the people around me, that I'm signing what I'm supposed to be signing. You know, they're like, oh yeah, that's just for this. Okay, fine, I can sign. Now this is just for this, all right, sign. I get it, man, I can easily be duped

into signing some bullshit too. Kathleen's daughter, Angela alerts the local police detective superintendent Bernard Postals. Quickly also thinks there's a real good chance that Fred killed Kathleen to take her money. Regarding the forged will, Postals would later say, you only have to look at it once and you start thinking it's like something

off a John Bull printing press. You don't have to have 20 years as a detective to know it's fake. Maybe he's all who's being clever, an old lady, nobody around that. Look at it, it's a bit tacky, but everyone knew she was sharp as a tack. Maybe it was his arrogance. Shipman's sleeping. He's gotten away with shit for so long. He thinks he can just do whatever he wants. He thinks he can not only kill off elderly patients now, but also sign over their estates to himself. And then while the local authorities already have their eyeballs on Freddie, right, but

they don't have maybe quite enough to charge him yet. A local taxi driver named John Shaw shows up out of nowhere, gives the police more incriminating information about shipment. He's been noticing a pattern with some of his customers over several years. Over 20 of them had died right after being seen by Dr. Death. Mr. Shaw been working locally as a taxi driver since 1988, he'd driven numerous shipment patients to his office. He'd later say, they became my friends.

Then relatives would ring me and say, don't pick up my mom. She's dead. I got to a strange way of flanking. I was asking, who was this doctor? Mr. Shobb said that he became concerned back in March 1995 after the death of Netta Ashcroft. He said he began to see a pattern emerging. After another patient, Melissa Garcide died in October 1996. Mr. Shaw was told by her son Keith that shipment had just given her an injection. He would later say,

I won't to decide he's murdered your mom, but he felt that he wouldn't be believed and his wife Kathleen advised him to keep quiet in case he was wrong and they got sued. They said, the fact that Shemma was a much well-respected figure in the community who seemed to be popular and well liked by his patients made it difficult to express my concerns publicly. I couldn't believe what my suspicions were. They were so fantastic that I couldn't grasp what my mind was telling me, which I get, right? That's hard to believe.

Some random doctor just off on his patients. Then after Mr. Shaw, here's about the Grundy investigation. He knows why I feel it's time to contact authorities. The information he's able to provide authorities get the ball rolling on the idea that the Grundy murder was not a unique case in Shipman's career. Right, he'd been doing this for a while.

Now the police are more than just a little suspicious about Shipman, but they still don't have enough actual evidence needed to charge him with murder. So to try and obtain that evidence, they decide to focus first on Catholic, Catholic and grundies murder. They need to conduct a post mortem on her body, assess her cause of death, which requires an exhumation order from the corner. And to dig this poor lady back up, digging up a body like this is very rare, very rare occurrence for any British police force. It was the one, you know, it was something that the greater manchester police had not yet experienced.

Detective Superintendent Postals later explained, we did not have one officer who would have had taken pot in the exhumation. We asked the National Crime Squad for advice. Catherine, Catherine Grunny's grave would be the first to be open, but it would not be the last. On August 1st, 1998, Kathleen's body was exhumed. Her tissue and hair samples were sent to different labs for analysis. Upon return, the data showed definite evidence for a morphine overdose. The post mortem showed that the morphine was administered or administered somewhere around three hours

before her death exactly when doctor death came to see her. The local authorities were actually surprised by how obviously Dr. Shebin had incriminated himself. A morphing overdose is really, really easy to determine. There are a number of drugs and poisons. Shebin could have used that would have been much harder to detect. criminally not smart for Freddie Boy to use morphine. Officer Possil stopped for sure.

A doctor would have known that, would have known that morphine can remain in body tissue and bones for centuries. Possil's later observed, I was surprised. I anticipated that I would have had difficulty if he gave them something in the way of poison, lost in background substance. I gave insulin, he used insulin as an example, which produces

the body produces naturally. It was an unexpected bonus once I had checked that Kathleen Grunny did not take it herself. I love these English quotes by the way. Same language that we speak here in America, but so different, different word meanings, different vocabulary choices, different sentence structure. It's great. Kesslene did not take his self. I would have had difficulty. Had he given her something in a way of poison lost in background substance. And that's not something you say in America. Lost in background substance.

I'd probably say something like, it was obviously Kathy didn't kill herself. I'm glad she made it easy for us to tell what he poisoned with. You know, this is like more like plain. Flowery, more flowery, a lot of the language that the British use. Month later on September 7th, shipment is arrested and charged with Mrs. Grundi's murder after going to the local Aston Underline police station for an interview. He denies the accusations against him. Of course, he does. He makes the ridiculous bullshit

claim that Kathleen Grundi, again, who was 81 years old, was a heroin junkie, essentially. And then he took her morphine as a result of her addiction. You know, if anything, he was complicit in enabling an octogenarian to continue to abuse an opioid. He showed the police records on his computer, trying to prove his case, but he wasn't able to fool the police, was falsified records a second time. They were able to determine that this time the comments and records he's showing them

had been altered after her death. The police then raided the doctor's home in offices before he could talk primrose or some other employee into destroying the records he kept for all his other patients. During the raid, police find the typewriter used to type the bogus will he'd used with Kathleen. Shipman told them the improbable tale of how Mrs. Grundy sometimes borrowed his typewriter. She must have borrowed it to write out her own will. Uh-huh.

Friends and scientists later confirmed this machine had been used to type numerous other counterfeit and fraudulent documents. Searching Shipman's house yielded additional altered medical records. They found some mysterious jewelry and weirdly his house was also filthy, which they found to be strange for a doctor's home. The Jimin home was littered with filthy clothes, old newspaper clippings, was nothing short of unsanitary. The more records the police found, the more apparent it was to them that the case would

extend further than the single deaths in question. The taxi driver was right. He had been killing patients for years. Priority was given to the deaths that would be most productive to investigate, namely victims who had not been cremated and who had died directly following a home visit by shipment. Dr. death urged families to cremate their relatives in a large number of the cases, stressing that no further investigation of their deaths

was necessary, even in instances when these relatives had died of causes previously unknown to the families, in situations where they did raise question shipment would provide fake medical records to corroborate the cause of death. He'd pronounced because of all the cremations, you know, we'll never know exactly how many people he killed. Police determined that in many cases of murder, he altered computer records again to make

everything match with an hours of the patient's death, often immediately after killing somebody, he'd race back to his office and adjust those records. In the case of 82 year old Kathleen Grundy, he reinforced his later statement that she was a morphine junkie by inventing and back dating several entries and writing about how, you know, that she was definitely addicted.

On September 8th, 1998, Shipman makes the first of many appearances before Tame Side magistrates court in Aston Online, Aston Underline, excuse me, charged with murdering Mrs. Grundy in forging her will. He's refused bail weeks later a series of bodies all shipments victims would also be exhumed on October 7th shipment appears in court again as a charge with three additional

murders after examinations of their bodies combined with altered medical records made it apparent he had also given them lethal injections of morphine. More bodies are exhumed in October and November. On November 11th, shipment is charged with two additional murders. On December 3rd, charged with two more murders. More bodies exhumed in December. On February 2nd, 1999, shipment is charged with seven additional murders. Six of these murder victims had actually been cremated, but they were still able to charge him because of all the altered medical history entries he'd made to their patient records. Fred didn't know how his hard drive worked.

He didn't know that every time he altered these records on his computer, the phony alteration was documented to the second. They were able to see in numerous cases that he again run back to his office immediately after they died of sudden unexpected death and then rewritten them a phony medical history. Despite all of the overwhelming evidence against him, Shipman continued to refuse to admit to having done anything wrong. Here's a little bit of the transcript from an interrogation where Detective Constable Marie Shipnitsky explains to Shipman that it is, ugh, sorry about that name by the way.

Oh, it's actually Snit, Snit, Snittinsky. I don't know why, I love that I'd change it to shit Snitsky or something like that. Was, Snittinsky, fucking Polish names. He explains to Shipman that it's obvious that he altered medical records, or she explains, excuse me, to cover the murders. So Marie says, the levels were such that this woman actually died from toxicity of morphine, not as you wrongly diagnosed.

In plain speaking, you murdered her. One feature of these statements from the family was that they couldn't believe their own mother had chest pains in China and hadn't been informed. And Hale says, by whom? By her. And by her, thank you. They also found it hard to believe

because she didn't have a history of chess complaints and heart disease and then Jaina did she doctor? If he's written on the records, then she had the history. And therefore, the simple truth is you fabricated a history to cover what you've done. You murdered her, you made up a history of Jaina

and chess pains so you could issue a death certificate and placate his poor woman woman's family didn't you? No. We've got a statement from Detective Sergeant John Ashley who works in the field of computers. He's made a thorough examination of your computer doctor and the medical records contained on it and he's found that there is a number of entries that you have incorrectly placed on this record to falsely mislead and to indicate this woman had a history of njana and chest pains. What have you got to say about that doctor? Nothing. Nothing.

One of he knows at this point that he's fucking done. He has to know, right? He's not an idiot. He has to know that he will never, ever be a free man again and he's going to die in prison or does he somehow think that he'll still get out of it? If looking cases like this, where the killer has a family, they refuse to admit their guilty, so at least they can hope that even if the rest of the world thinks they're guilty, at least their family might still believe they're innocent.

I feel like they cling to that. His family does still seem to think he's innocent. On October 5, 1999, shipment goes to trial at Preston Crown Court, charged with murdering 15 patients and forging Mrs. Grundy's will. Shipman's defense counsel, Nicola Davis, Davis makes their case first. Primarily a medical lawyer, 46-year-old Ms. Davies, had mainly dealt with matters outside their criminal courts

prior to Shipman's trial. She submits three requests to the court. First, she asked if the trial be halted. Uh-huh. Davies claims that Dr. Sheppman will not be able to receive a fair trial because of the poor, inaccurate, and misleading media coverage around the case. For the better part of two days,

she draws attention to a range of newspaper articles reporting on nearly 150 patients cases, and she talks about the extensive media coverage of the exhumations. Second, Ms. Davies wants the court to hold three separate trials for Grundy and the other cases. She says the first trial should only be for the case of Kathleen Grundy.

It should be separate because it alone has an alleged motive, greed. The second trial she says should involve only patients who have been buried because this was the only group where physical evidence of the cause of death morphine poisoning applies. The third trial she believed should cover those who are cremated as no physical evidence of death exists. The prosecutor counters with an argument that because the cases are interrelated, trying them all together was important to present a more comprehensive picture to the juror of who shipment is and why he kills.

Ms. Davies then presents the defense's third application, one that stuns the court, she wants evidence referred to in volume eight to be disallowed. Volume eight contains records, detailing how shipment had accumulated morphine from 28 patients, many now deceased. It shows how the doctor continued prescribing for some after they had died and kept the drugs for his own purposes. Similarly, he had prescribed opiates for many still living patients who never received strong painkillers, much less morphine. The defense

didn't feel that Dr. Shipman's possible ongoing morphine addiction was relevant to his murder charges. After considering the defense's three applications of the court denies each one. All the evidence is going to be allowed. The trial is not gonna be postponed, and he's gonna be tried for all the murders at once. A jury is quickly selected, and the trial is underway. The prosecution would assert that Shepard had killed the 15 patients because he enjoyed exercises he controlled over life and death.

They dismissed any claims that he had been acting compassionately as none of his 15 victims were actually suffering a terminal illness. Important note here, were some of the people he's believed to have killed suffering from terminal illnesses? Yes, initially when I read about this guy, I thought a lot of them were, turns out no. Most of them were not.

The 15 people he was initially charged with killing were not suffering from terminal illnesses. So he was definitely not some angel of mercy. He was the fucking grim reaper. Angela Woodruff, Kathleen Grundy's daughter appears as the first witness for the prosecution, her direct manner, account of her determination to get the truth and press the jury. An attempt by shipments defense to undermine her were unsuccessful. She was an accomplished solicitor, accomplished lawyer. She knew how to handle herself in court. She had the truth on her side. and she was described to be as striking as her mother had been

in life. Fashionally dressed in an expensive grey suit, understandably emotional, she appeared on the verge of breaking down throughout her long and arduous time in the witness box, explaining to great detail the police photographs of her house where her mom had lived so happily. She then told the heroin phone call from the hide police to inform her that her mother had died. Seeking clarification, she later had a conversation with Dr. Shipman. She said exactly what he said was difficult to remember. It's very hazy because I was very, very upset.

Dr. Shipman said he had seen my mother on the morning of her death. He had seen her at home. She couldn't remember why the doctor claimed to have been there. Speaking of the clumsy attempt made to fake the will leaving everything to Shibman, she told her mother's meticulous attention to detail, how doing everything neatly had always been her mother's way. This would later be apparent to everyone in the court and some of her mother's dire injuries were read, entries where every detail of importance was meticulously recorded in perfect penmanship.

Her mom was not the type of person to flippantly write. I gave all my estate money and house to my doctor, my family are not in need and I want to reward him for all the care he has given me and the people of heart. Angela went on to show how wealthy or how healthy her 81 year old mother had been, saying she was just amazing. We would walk five miles

and come in and she would say, where's the ironing? We used to joke and she was fitter than we were. I love this. How sad in the sense that she was murdered, obviously, but how inspiring that you can still live an active and vibrant life in your 80s. My grandpa wore his 87, he's slowing down a bit for sure now. But even like two years ago, he could still outwalk both of his own daughters, my mom and my aunt, still was doing stuff like climbing up onto the roof to repair some shingles and split firewood. Yeah, I explained firewood in the yard, not on the roof. That'd be extra fucking weird. If he was 85 years old, it's split in firewood on the roof. Kind of fucking awesome. Especially if he's wearing like a Rambo kind of head tie or something. This is a guy who never

set foot in a gym in his life. Never walked into a GNC, never drank a protein shake, never took any kind of fitness supplements. He just worked hard, stayed busy his whole life, you know, still stays busy. You know, not as busy, but still pretty busy. Exciting to think what is possible for us now. If we really take care of our bodies, workout, take advantage of modern supplements and nutrition, never thought a time suck on Dr. Death would be motivating me to get back in the gym more and take better care of myself. That's exactly what it's doing. Thank you, casting Grundy for living an inspirational life.

And the ensuing cross examination, the defense seemed intent on emphasizing Mrs. Woodruff's wealth, trying to prove that she didn't need her mother's money. So it wouldn't be that crazy for her mom to not give her the inheritance. Ms. Woodruff didn't hide the fact that she was doing very well. She said it was common knowledge that she and her husband, David, had inherited one million pounds from his dad, her father-in-law. She can also confirm that she and her husband each earned sizable annual incomes. And she also said this had nothing to do with the will that clearly wasn't written by

her mom. A subsequent attempt by the defense to show that Ms. Woodruff's relationship with her mother had been unharmonist was totally shot down when the victim's writings and a host of witnesses were examined. I mean, I know it's a defense attorney, you have to do your best to prove your client didn't do what their accused is doing, but this all seems so fucking slimy and gross to me. To try and prove that Angela didn't get along well with her mom, to try and prove that

she didn't need the money, feel feels so desperate just lacking in class. I've said it before, I have good friends who become defense attorneys and I'm glad they exist. I know it's an important job, they're great people. I'd hire them at a heartbeat if I ever needed defense attorney, but I could not be a defense attorney. Man, I could bust my ass and defend this shit out of someone if I truly believed they were innocent. But if I thought they were for sure guilty, I would be the worst fucking attorney. I feel like I would try and fuck things up for them, just enough to make sure that they lose,

but not enough to let them have a mistrile down the road. Like maybe sneak the prosecution stuff, drop off an anonymous Manila envelope full of damning evidence, tell them to look into things that my client has told me he's done that they don't know about yet. Maybe tell my client to act in ways definitely not beneficial to their case. Freddie, I want you to make a lot of eye contact with the church.

I really stare them down. A lot of recent studies have shown that trying to physically intimidate jurors is a great way to make them think to your innocent. When the judge isn't looking, I want you to look at the jurors, and I want you to just kind of run your finger across your throat, right? That classic, you're kind of fucking die message, right? Or maybe make your hand into like a gun and just pretend to kind of shoot them sometimes too, okay?

Early in the trial, a government pathologist leads the court through gruesome post-mortem findings where morphine toxicity, toxicity is found to be the cause of death over and over again. The will quickly proven to be fake court as well. The fingerprint analysis of the forged will shows that Kathleen Grundy had never even touched it. Her signature was dismissed quickly by a handwriting expert as being in crude, obvious

forgery. So dumb. Shipman really fucked up with this will. Right? How do you think he was going to get away with that? Especially when her daughter was a successful attorney. He got cocky, beginning away with stuff for too long. Police computer analysis testifies that shipment had definitely altered his computer records to create symptoms that his dead patients never had. In many cases, again, with an hours of their deaths, is a trial progressed on to other victims and the counts of their relatives a clear and consistent pattern of behavior began to emerge around

shipment. He continually displayed a lack of compassion, disregard for the wishes of attending relatives and reluctance to attempt to revive his patients, which is super weird. Newmer's times it was proven he would pretend to call an ambulance in the presence of relatives and then pretend to cancel the call when the patient had died. Telephone records showed he never made the calls. He was just pretending to speak to this bastard in front of the patient's relatives. When a reality, it was just static on the other end of the line.

All right, he developed his entire elaborate scheme to get away with killing over and over again. And prior to the variant with no financial reward, at least not a huge one. We will find out in a bit he might have been taken or definitely was taken in some cases, the odd piece of jewelry. No sexual motivation. No, I mean, like he just got off on playing God or he was reenacted as mother's death in some way. Finally, evidence of his drug hoarding is introduced with false prescribing to patients who didn't require morphine over prescribing to others who did as well as proof over prescribing to others who did,

as well as proof of his visits to the homes of the recently deceased to collect unused drug supplies for disposal, quote unquote. I mean, is this why he did it? Maybe it was part of the reason to feed his own morphine habit. In the second week of his trial, Shippen's former staff and colleagues were called in to be character witnesses. District nurse Mary and Gilchrist took the oath and immediately burst into tears, regaining her composure. She told how shipment had reacted when he realized he would be arrested at any moment.

The doctor had broken down and he said, I'll read thrillers and on the evidence they have, I will be found guilty. And the nurse said she took it as black humor. When he also said, the only thing I did wrong was not have a cremated. If I had a cremated, I wouldn't have all this trouble. Another patient who stayed and was right out in court described shipments feelings on

Grundy's will when he told her, if I could bring him back, I would say, look at all the trouble it's caused. I was going to say I didn't want the money, but because of all this trouble, I will have it. He claimed he would use most of her money for fill and throb at causes. He would never get the chance to do so. The last part of the Grundy case hurt evidence for medical peer Dr. John Grenville, analyzing Shipman's medical notes.

He spoke of how he would have behaved very differently under the same circumstances. Speaking about how Dr. Shipman had quickly pronounced Kathleen Grundy dead, he said, I would examine the Baltic carefully to ensure death had occurred. If I found no pulse at the neck, I would look for a more central point.

Grenville claimed he would have attempted to revive her, which was standard medical practice. So now the jurors are forming a very, you know, a clear picture of a cold and calculated defendant. This image would only intensify in the grueling weeks of trial ahead. The prosecution's case for shipment becoming a serial killer or being a serial killer was gaining momentum. As is typical, when evidence follows a set pattern over and over in a trial. Although the Kathleen Grundy case had taken over a week, the other cases to follow, the other murder cases would progress much more quickly over and over.

Jurz would hear the same pattern. Shipman running the same ambulance telephone scam in front of grieving relatives. One sad example of this ruse involved a vibrant 77 year old named Lizzie Adams Lizzie loved dancing with her dance partner William Catlow She played ginger Rogers to his Fred Astaire and William had dropped into visit Lizzie the day she died when he arrived He found shipman examining her And her impressive and expensive collection of porcelain and crystal. In the next room, Lizzie Lee Dine, cat little told the court, I just burst past him.

She felt warm. I said, I can feel her pulse. Shipman said, no, that's yours. I will cancel the ambulance. And then telephone records again proved the ship and he never called anybody. What a piece of shit, man. How sad is this poor man, you know, for him to know now that he was right, that his dance partner was still alive

when he examined her, that her doctor did kill her right in front of him essentially and tricked him into helping not save her. In another case, that of 64 year old Nora Nuddle, her son Anthony told how he had left his mother alone for just 20 minutes? He returned to find doctor shipment leaving their house. He thought this was odd because his mom and you know never said he was coming over She didn't appear to even be ill. I asked him what was wrong. He said I have wrong an ambulance for her

I ran in so I think she was asleep in the chair I took her by the hands and shook her, saying, mom, mom, shortly after shipment merely touched her neck. She's like barely touched her neck and told us, sorry, she's gone. Noreneudal's sister went to Shipman's office to examine the dead woman's records. She wanted details of her sister's death, annoyed Shipman addressed his staff,

unnewed, what happened, I told you what happened. Quickly he fabricated the story of how Nora had called his office to say she was ill. Shipman then claimed he'd been paged and just happened to be nearby and telephone records proved him wrong shippin quickly fabricated a new story unreal how he didn't get caught for this for this you know case he didn't get caught for telling some shitty lies but he would get caught for his lie about casting grundi luckily

uh... if you remember he had said that his reason for visiting his last victim casting grundi was allegedly to collect blood samples for a study on aging? This is brought up, of course, in court. So where were these blood samples? The prosecution asked. He said he'd sent them off for analysis. But then the prosecution proved that there was no study.

He made it all up. So where were the samples? Now he says he left the samples under a pile of notes for a for sure real study that the prosecution, they should know about. All right? Is the is a study that you know the head researchers were doctors with names He just couldn't quite remember but it was definitely real and and you know now that he really thinks about he hadn't sent the samples anywhere He said that by the time he found them under his notes where he'd forgotten them. They were no longer useful So you know he threw him away and gosh dang he just you know, I'm a heck. This is just coming up now

With each new lie shipments looking more and more like a fucking dipshit like his credibility's plummeting with the jury He's making this a very easy case for the prosecution to go along with being a murderer the prosecution also showcases how big of an asshole he was a line of witnesses talk about shipman's lack of compassion Laurie driver Albert Lily broke down as he recalled the way shipment announced the death of his wife. 59-year-old Jean Lillie, he said, I've been with your wife for quite a while now, trying to persuade her to go to the hospital, but she won't go. I was going to come home late and have a word with you and your wife, and I was too late. And he says, what do you mean too late?

And then the doctor said, you're not listening to me carefully. And then he says the shipmentman said, you are not listening to me carefully. And then he says that Shipman seemed to take great pleasure and forcing him to guess that his beloved wife had just died. He played this strange guessing game with Winnie Miller's relatives as well. Winnie was a healthy, outgoing 73 year old who still played football with her grandchildren.

Excited, you know, about, and by the way, this is a English football, America Lister was talking about soccer here. She wasn't fucking tackling and throwing the pigs going around. But excited about a plan trip to the Holy Land, she too died suddenly directly following a shipment visit. When shipment called her daughter, Kathleen,

he was deliberately obtuse forcing her to guess how her mother had died. He said, did you realize that your mother has been suffering from chest pains? And I said, no. He said, she called this morning, I came to see her and she refused treatment. And she says, all going on in court. And so she says, well, I'll be up there as soon as I can. And he says, no, there's no need for that. So I said, has she gone to hospital? And he says, there's no point in sending her to hospital. And then I just went silent, she says, and then he didn't say anything. And then I just realized what he was not saying.

And I said, do you mean my mother's dead? And he says, I see you understand. What a fucking weirdo. Is that part of why he was doing this? Did he like to see others feel the pain he felt when his mom died or something? What a sick fuck. He's like to toy with people. Hello, Ashley.

Do you have a moment to speak about your mom, Winnie? Yes, of course, Dr. Shippen. He saw her earlier today. Yes, I Hello, Kathleen. Do you have a moment to speak about your mom, Winnie? Yes, of course, Dr. Shipman. You saw her earlier today. Yes, I did, Kathleen. Yes, I did. We had a lovely visit. So she's feeling better then.

Yes, it's quite better. She has no longer experienced in any pain. Well, that is great news, Dr. Shipman. She's had such a terrible cough. I know as, it was really starting to hurt her, she has had a look forward to swinging by her place later today and talking to her. I don't think she'll have much to say, Kathleen.

I'm sorry. Well, she's grown rather quiet if you catch my meaning. I'm afraid I don't talk to Shippen. Is she tired? Is she taking a nap? If by a nap you mean dead nap, then well, yes, you're a clever girl. You'll figure it all out.

Did you just say my mother's taking a dead nap? No, Dr. Shippen. Yes, but I'm a spoke. She's quite above ground for now. So I to alarm you. So she's okay then. Yes, she's quite peaceful. I think I'll call her now, Dr. Shipman.

She won't answer. How do you know that? I suppose I don't. I guess the miracle could happen. I guess it's always a small possibility of becoming a zombie or something. Dr. Shipman, I'm heading to my mother's right now to check out your strange talkers worrying me.

Very well then, if you're in a mood for a stiff company, you'll find it. Please let me know. come to the zombie or something. Dr. Shimon, I'm heading to my mother's right now to check out your strange talk as worrying me. Very well then, if you're in a mood for a stiff company, you'll find it. Please let me know if she has somehow no longer dead. Talk to you soon. Thank you, Kathleen. Shimon was such a bastard, man. His rudeness to a neighbor, Gloria Ellis,

helped convict him of the murder of Winnie Miller. Gloria had witnessed Shimon's visit to Winnie, just hours before her death. He was to return later as detective chief inspector Mike Williams explained, a neighbor at T time gets a knock on the door from Dr. ship and saying he's come to see Winford Miller. He can see here in a chair and he thinks she's dead. They go into the house and again, they find Winford Miller dead in a chair when the neighbor glory asks, but you were here before, weren't you?

Shipman does not answer. When she asks has glory had a stroke, Shipman quickly becomes irritated. And then insults are saying, you stupid girl. Far from stupid, this neighbor knew to the minute the time Shipman had arrived and left and was happy to share that information with the jury. See, like he's such an asshole. Like she had seen this guy come before, then leave, then come back to her house and be like, hey, can you let me in this house? And she's like, what the fuck are you talking about? I just saw you go in there. No, no, I didn't. That never happens be like, hey, can you let me in this house? And she's like, what the fuck are you talking about? I just saw you go in there.

No, I didn't. That never happened. No, no, you're quite wrong. Stupid girl. In another example of Shipman's hardest behavior, the killer ridicules dead Ivy Lomas. One of 15 deaths Shipman was charged with, only Miss Lomas occurred in his office.

A detective sergeant, Philip Reed, a constable at to time, told how he had gone to the doctor's office to locate Ivy's next of Kim. And he would later recall his bizarre counter with shipment, saying he was laughing. He said he considered her such a nuisance, but he was having part of the seating area permanently reserved for Ivy with a plaque to the effect seat seat permanently reserved for Ivy Lomas. Even worse, shipment told the officer that as he left the room, Ivy could have taken her last breath, and yet he made no effort to resuscitate the woman.

Instead he left her alone while he saw other patients. A medical expert for the prosecution, Dr. Granville, told the court, this was a medical emergency. I would have given my entire attention to this particular patient, but the 63 year old Ivy would have been passed resuscitation at this point because, you know, Shepman had murdered her with morphine. During the trial, Shepman repeatedly claimed he never carried morphine. Therefore, he could not have killed any of his patients with it. This assertion became the cornerstone of his defense, but then the family of victim Mali

Dudley disproved this assertion. Daughter-in-law Joyce Dudley received a call from Shipman telling her, I'm afraid your mother-in-law has only got about half an hour left to live. Mali was dead by the time her son, Jeffrey and wife arrived. Shipman told him she had died from a heart attack. Joyce Dudley stated, and this is when he said to me and to Jeff that he had, quote, given her a shot of morphine for the pain.

So this proves the doctor, Shipman, did in fact carry morphine. Just how he amassed enough for the drug to kill so many patients was also revealed during the trial. He once prescribed 2,000 milligrams of morphine to a patient named Frank Compton who had prostate cancer. Although Mr. Compton was not in pain, Shipman said he wanted to have it on hand for him. Okay, his pain developed later. He said the patient had told him

he didn't want to be a drug addict. So he broke, you know, the capsules of morphine, put them in the rubbish, but no one saw him do this. Shippman said he talked more to Mr. Crompton, Crompton, excuse me, about the morphine. And he agreed to keep some pills in his house, just in case he were to need them. So Shippman said he got them another supply.

Mr. Crumppton died before shipment's trial and it was impossible to prove shipment had confiscated both batches, but it didn't look good. And his beliefs, he did this sort of thing over and over. He write out morphine prescriptions for patients who never knew he had done so and then would just keep the drug for himself. Shipman staff also told the court about how he tried explaining the way some missing morphine with the excuse that he'd given it to a colleague who'd once loaned him some for a prior patient emergency.

One man who narrowly, narrowly escapes an overdose from Dr. Death was Jim King. His testimony would prove further, the shibbon was routinely overdosing his patients with morphine. In 1996, Jim had been incorrectly diagnosed as having cancer and Shibbon began treating him with massive doses of morphine. In 1996, Jim had been incorrectly diagnosed as having cancer and Shibin began treating him with massive doses of morphine. Jim told the court how he kept saying, you can take as much morphine as you wish because of course it didn't really matter, you were dying anyway. When Jim's condition worsened, Shibin made a house call. He diagnosed Jim as having pneumonia, said he needed to be given an injection. Jim and his wife were a bit hesitant to accept this injection, mostly because both

kings and and his father had recently died following injections from shipment. Jim's wife recalled how the doctor asked me if I wanted to help give him the injection. I said, no, I said, can we write out a prescription for him? He kept being persistent about it. He wanted to give him the injection. I can't tell him, no, no, I don't want it. He was a bit arrogant about it. Had a snottie attitude towards me about it. The Kings learned that the shipmen had in fact definitely murdered his dad and aunt and probably was going to murder him at that point. Mr. Justice Forbes, the judge presiding over shipments trial took two weeks to meticulously dissect all the evidence heard by the jury. The urge caution, noting that no witness had

actually seen shipmen kill anyone. He also urged the jurors to use common sense and arrive into their verdict. On January 31st, he told them in part, the allegations could not be more serious. The doctor accused of murdering 15 patients. You will have heard evidence, which may have aroused feelings of anger, strong disapproval, discussed, profound dismay or deep sympathy. But then on January 31st, you know, 2000, the foreman declared that Jerry had reached, you know, quickly a unanimous decision regarding the charges against Dr. Herald Freddy Shipman. They found him guilty of everything he'd been charged with, guilty on 15 counts of murder,

guilty on the count of forgery. The disgraced doctors to a motionless showed no sign of emotion as he heard jurors read the verdict. I'm guessing, you know, he wasn't that surprised. His wife Primrose didn't, also didn't seem surprised wearing black Primrose also remain emotionless. Two of her sons, one beside her and the other seated behind her, did break down and cry. Their daughter and third son were not in court today.

The verdict was read. His sentence was read almost immediately after his guilty verdict, Mr. Justice Forbes addressed shipman saying, you have finally been brought to justice by the verdict of this jury. I have no doubt whatsoever. These are true verdicts. The time has now come for me to pass sentence upon you

for these wicked, wicked crimes. Each of your victims was your patient. You murdered each and every one of your victims by a calculated and cold blooded perversion of your medical skills for your own evil and wicked purposes. You took advantage of and grossly abused that trust. You were after all each victim's doctor. I have little doubt that each of your victims smiled and thanked you as she submitted to your deadly

administrations. Yeah. When all of his patients received their deadly dose of morphine man, they thought they were being given medicine. How sad is that? When they grew sleepy, they probably thought they were going to wake up, you know, soon feeling much better and then they never woke up. The judge gave shipment of life scents for each and every murder conviction. Fifteen life sentences, an additional four year sentence for forgery. He broke with English court tradition that usually involves writing to the home secretary about his recommendations on the length of the sentence, saying,

in the ordinary way, I would not do this in the open court, but in your case, I am satisfied, justice demands that I make my views known at the conclusion of this trial. My recommendation will be that you spend the remainder of your days in prison. 15 murders had been dealt with, and the 57-day trial was over, but the true extent of how many patients shipment killed was still being revealed. Shipman consistently denied his guilt, disputing scientific evidence against him. He never made any statements about his actions, never cooperate with anyone, for any reason during this trial, during the investigation before it, during his incarceration afterwards. His wife, Primrose, apparently, was denial about his crimes. Soon after the verdict was read, many other additional cases of murders were uncovered, but not pursued.

Authorities concluded it would be hard to have a fair trial in view of the enormous publicity surrounding the original trial, also given the sentences from the first trial, a further trial was just unnecessary. He wasn't ever going to get out of prison. But authorities did want to know for certain how many other patients had been killed. So on February 1st, 2000, Health Secretary Alan Milburn announces an inquiry into the circumstances surrounding additional murder possibilities. A clinical audit is conducted by Professor Richard Baker of the University of Lester examining

the number and pattern of deaths and herald shipments practice and comparing them with those of other practitioners. He finds that rates of death amongst his elderly patients were significantly higher, two and a half times as high, clustered at certain times of day, and that shipment was in attendance in a very disproportionately high number of cases of sudden patient death. The audit goes on to estimate that he was very likely responsible for the deaths of at least 236 patients over a 24 year period. In February of 2000, police revealed that they're investigating Dr.

Shipman's role in an additional 175 deaths. However, they, again, they say there will be no further murder charges. A report into Shipman's activities submitted in July of 2002 concludes that he had killed at least 215 of his patients between 1975 and 1998. Dame Janet Smith, the judge who submitted the report, admitted that many more suspicious deaths could be, could not be definitively ascribed to him, but he probably killed him too. All together, foul play is suspected in 466 cases. Dame, by the way in this context is the female equivalent of sur in England. Doesn't mean someone is always the female equivalent of a night, but it can. There's the nighthood in there is the day mode of shipments 215 known victims.

171 were women, 44 were men. The oldest was 93 old woman, the youngest of 47 year old man, right? This doesn't count the four year old girl that may have been killed by him or who may have been killed by him as well. The commission further speculated that Shibin might have become addicted to killing. A year and a half later, Shibin is found hanging in his cell in Wakefield, prison 620am, January 13th, 2004. He's pronounced dead around two hours later.

He committed suicide a day before his 58th birthday. Shibin knew he was under hourly surveillance. He knew he only needed four minutes to finish himself off. A prison service statement indicated that Shipman had hanged himself from the window bars of his cell using bed sheets. And the people of England rejoiced. Various British tabloids expressed joy in his suicide

encourage other serial killers to follow his example. The son ran a celebratory front page headline, it says, ship ship, hooray. Fuckin' love it, love British humor. So dark and honest. Yeah, good runs. Fuck that piece of trash. Shipments motivation for suicide seems to have been financial.

He reportedly told his probation officer that he was considering suicide so that his widow would receive a national health service, and an NHS pension and a lump sum. Money she could definitely use since he had been stripped of his doctor's pension. Primrose did receive a full NHS pension after he died, which she would not have received if he had died after the age of 60. So maybe his final act, I guess, was one of compassion for his wife. It might have also been a fuck you to authorities.

They'd sent him to life in prison, but now he was going to decide that he wasn't going to live that long. FBI profiler, John Douglas asserts that serial killers are usually obsessed with manipulation and control. Killing themselves in police custody, your committee to suicide by cop is often a final act of control. Shipman also may have killed himself over a guilty conscience. Shortly before his death, Shipman refused to take part in counseling courses,

which would have encouraged him to confess his guilt so that victims' families could get closure. He refused to cooperate. And this refusal led to privileges, including the opportunity to telephone his wife being removed. Those privileges were returned the week before the sucess suicide.

And when he talked to Primrose for his, you know, the final time, it seems as if she was wanting him to confess Primrose, who had consistently believed that shipment was innocent, seems to have begun to suspect his guilt right before he died. According to Tony Fleming, Shipman's ex-Cellmate, Primrose had, you know, not only spoken with him before he died and had some questions. She also recently written a letter to her husband urging him to tell me everything, no matter what. The year after he died in 2005, it came to light that shipment had stolen for more than just his final victim as well.

Over 10,000 pounds worth of jewelry was found in his garage in 1998. And in March 2005, with Primrose Shipman pressing for it to be returned to her, police wrote to the families of Shipman's victims asking them to identify the jewelry. 66 pieces ended up being returned to Primrose. 33 pieces, which she confirmed were not hers, were auctioned. So it looks like he took at least 33 pieces of jewelry. The proceeds of the auction went to the Tamside Victim Support Group. The only piece actually returned to a murdered patient's family was a platinum diamond ring,

for which the family was able to provide a photograph as proof of ownership. Is he taking a littleies of his kills? No, no. Uh, then on July 30th, 2005, a memorial garden to Shipman's victims called the Garden of Tranquility opened at Hyde Park in London, and that little addendum takes us out of this time suck timeline. Good job, soldier. You made it back.

Barely. All right, so now we know what this dude did. But what about the why? The motives behind his crimes always have remained somewhat unclear. There was no signs of violence, again, no sexual overtones, no known motive, except for the one occasional, you know, or for the one exception, excuse me, of the will, you know, no smoking gun. I mean, sure he took some jewelry, but it didn't seem like he was selling it to fund some kind of lavish lifestyle. Money doesn't seem to have been his primary motivation. Also, serial killers

often like to toy with their victims to reinforce their self-portrait of power before they strike, but Shipman's victims seem to have died peacefully. In surroundings where they felt safe and comfortable at home, he didn't seem to have toyed with them. So that wasn't his main motivation. Some of suggested that he was practicing youth in Asia and eliminating older people under the guise of doing it for the greater good. Perhaps he felt elderly,

were he a burden on the healthcare system, but if that's true, why were his victims generally women? Some think he derived pleasure from the fact that it's a doctor, he had the power to grant someone other life for death, and his killings were expressing that power. Something he maybe was just insane. Right? He didn't come across though,

as mentally unsabeled to his family or to his co-workers. When he wasn't killing patients, he was by all accounts, so you know, a skilled doctor, right up until the end. Was he doing some kind of strange research? Was he experimenting around with the effects of morphine? Probably not. This is just something that gets brought up when people

speculate about his motives, but no one has ever found any documents relating to any clandestine study he may have been conducting. Did he see himself as some kind of death angel, some kind of bringer of dignified pain-free medical death? Or a salesman, Chester Corner, John Pollard speculated that shipment, quote, simply enjoy viewing the process of dying and enjoyed feeling the control over life and death.

That one seems pretty likely. I think it's all related to his mom, right? Some believe that he was somehow avenging the death of his mother over and over. Replaying his mother's death, seen over and over for some kind of massacistic reason. It seems beyond coincidental to me that the guy who spent so much time with his mom while she was dying during his identity forming teen years,

a woman who's only physical comfort in the end came from morphine, would then go on to both become addicted to morphine and also use morphine to kill other mothers. His mother's final moments were spent with her doctor having a cup of tea, getting a shot of morphine, and then he recreates a scene.

Dr. Shepney, you know, given his patients a cup of tea in many a shot of morphine. And then he recreates a scene. Dr. Shepman, you know, given his patients a cup of tea in many cases. Now he's the doctor sitting by them. Now he's giving them a shot of morphine in their final moments. Maybe his mom's death just fucked his brain up in a way we'll never fully understand. Right?

In a way you can't understand unless it happened to you. Too bad he didn't get some counseling after her death. Maybe he could have worked through some shit. And you know, not killed a whole bunch of grandmas and grandpas. We will likely never know why he did what he did, but before we bounce out of this episode, we can at least check in with the edits of the internet and find out, you know, what they think about Dr. Harold

Freddie Shipman. It is the internet. I found a video called Dr. Death Britain's biggest serial killer, crime documentary Real Stories, published by the Real Stories YouTube channel. It's documentary just over 47 minutes long that walks you through the essentials of shipment story that you need essentials that you just heard, has over a million views, there's almost a 1,400 comments underneath it. Use your one ring to rule them all post killing heaps and heaps of old ladies. Nobody cares enough.

But don't dare touch the inheritance. That is utterly sad about this case. Good point one ring, that is truly tragic. But I think it's understandable. Like he chose his victims carefully and had others gone to the police early on. They probably wouldn't have been taken seriously because he didn't have an obvious motive. Shibbon is such an odd killer that way. His victims didn't look like they've been obviously murdered.

Despite the police being suspicious of him towards the end, he may have been able to keep on killing for a long time, had he not overreached and tried to snag that inheritance. That inheritance gave him motive now in law enforcement size to kill somebody, which is why that we know was taken more seriously than than previous cases. User general, user general Lee interested, right? Little, little silliness there, generally interested, makes it truly idiotic post writing, stop believing in respectability. It's a mask as often as virtue.

This is talking about the respectability of him being a doctor. Way to over correct. Generally, one doctor is proven to be a murderous monster. Now you're ready to stop believing in the seemingly virtuous and respectable profession in general. That's a tad bit illogical. A little bit of the throwing the baby out with the bathwater there. There are 68 likes for this comment and zero dislikes, which is sad. Yeah, people in quote unquote respectable professions, such as doctors can be horrible.

But to think many are most are horrible is ludicrous. Why would somebody want to become a doctor? Outside of making a good living, I'm guessing it's because they want to help people. It's a profession that draws good people to it. Right? It's a profession based on helping, on saving. That's not going to draw a lot of, you know, people who want to hurt people. Yeah, it's going to draw the occasional person who wants to play God, I guess, but that's got to be very small percentage. Not trusting doctors in general because of this one story is crazy. The reason the story

gets a lot of press and England, the reason it's gotten, you know, got a lot of press around the world is because it's atypical, not typical. Slay-enge artist brings up an interesting point writing, you sure he didn't kill his mom. He was never suspected that, but what if he did kill her? I mean, he knew she was dying anyway. He hated seeing her in pain. He was watching a doctor give her morphine. What if he snuck some morphine from that doctor's bag, right, gave her that final shot? Probably not. It doesn't come up in any investigation of him.

But considering what he went on to do, it does make me pause and think, I don't know, maybe. Dr. Mesuki Ataki posts, I know his name is Shipman, but throughout the entire documentary, all I heard was Shipman fitting. Nice, it is fitting. I can't believe is Shipman, but throughout the entire documentary, all I heard was Shipman fitting. Nice. It is fitting. I can't believe I never thought that. He was a shipment. He's a shit man. Eric Siggins cracked me up posting. I was watching this on point seven five speed

and was like, why are all these people? So God damn calm. In an Ikeman, Katarine post, the perfect reply, too much morphine. Well done, well done you too, well done. Use your big post something I just thought was odd, writing, that's excessive even for your serial killer. He is more like a medieval tyrant. Over 300 murders, absolute horror, sneaky creep doctor. I just love how big feels that 300 murders is excessive,

which could be read as implying that, you know, like a more reasonable number for a serial killer is okay. Like, I mean, 30 murders is excessive, which could be red as implying that, you know, like a more reasonable number for serial killers. Okay. It's like, I mean, 30 murders I get. That's normal. I get it. You're killing people. That's not good.

But you're not killing that many people. You're not killing excessively. Uh, finally, uh, just like General Lee earlier, user Rufus burn reads way too much into this isolated example, writing, if he had not gone over the top and just killed a few each year, he would have gotten away with it. He should have not got greedy for money and no one would have ever known about it.

I wonder how many doctors are doing this today, just killing a few each year. The fuck are you talking about? Why would lots of other doctors just kill a few people each year? I just because that's like an easy number to get away with it. This makes me wonder if the only thing keeping Rufus from killing is concerned over, you know, getting away with

it. I'm going to guess very few doctors are just out there randomly killing a few patients a year just because they can get away with it, right? Just for just for funsies. It's just like, nothing crazy. I just fucking, I just get right a one or two my least favorites That means I maybe it is a good idea to be super polite and courteous when interacting with your doctor I mean, I mean it probably is easier for them to kill you than it would be for someone else in your life I'm not alone and worrying about Rufus Syrian fox replies to Rufus with his comment of you come across like you would enjoy killing a few a year, very weird man, very. Yeah, I don't think that's happening.

Luckily, I don't think the world is full of very many Harold shipments. Thank God. That being said, if your Nana does die after a house call, maybe check and make sure that none of her jewelry's gone missing. And if some has, maybe call the police. You might be dealing with the new Dr. Shitman. It is the internet. It is the internet.

It is the internet. It is the internet. All right, little wrap up here. Hopefully my voice sounded a lot better today. I still have this the last touch I'm hoping of the Snot Notes from this from this gold, which makes pronouncing harder. And you know that's already a challenge for me. So I don't think it was too bad today. Hopefully it's better. from this called, which makes pronouncing harder. And you know that's already a challenge for me.

So I don't think it was too bad today. I'll think it's better. Well, I don't think we really have to worry about a lot more doctor shipments. His case did make it harder for another person like that to kill and get away with it in the UK going forward. His murders led to some reforms, which is good. It's nice when some positive outcomes come from something so horrible. You know, new legislation was passed in the UK regarding the function and strength

of the English General Medical Council because the doctor Shibman, they made reforms as far as how Britain deals with sick doctors. The purpose and reliability of death certification, that process was changed, the monitoring of cremation certification was changed, the use of controlled drugs, the problem of isolated doctors, the value of clinical governance, I was all looked at and reviewed how to deal with whistleblowers, you know, change to function of the corner service reviewed and changed. So a lot of positive changes made because of Dr. Shippen. Dr. Death got away with murder for at least 23 years.

Man, hopefully no future doctor will ever break his grizzly record. Unfortunate that he had never admitted to his killings, never told anyone exactly why he did it. In regards to motive, he's got to be the most mysterious killer we've covered so far here on TimeSuck. I don't know, like, why kill some elderly patients, but not others? Was his choice in victim's base primarily on thought of, you know, on who he thought he could get away with killing?

Did he plan his killings in advance? Was it more impulsive? Did he look forward to them? Did he lay in bed at night next to Primrose and think to himself? That was fun today. Ah, feel better now that she's gone. I mean, just so weird.

So we're to kill people in a way that doesn't even hurt them. People who have never done anything to you, people whose families don't even know they've been murdered. I feel like he would be the killer that would be the most confusing to all of the other killers we've covered here on TimeSuck. What's this big deal with Dr. Death? He not even have a soft shamecock. He not even Russell.

He not even Hyde and Cornel and Jericho and Barthol Noon. What's his point? Why, why he people kill? This flat tire never even got out the cat or nine tails. Never, never pressed out the high double-sided. Never whipped out from shame and fresh peanut butter. Never spanked a fat bottom till it bled. It's like he doesn't even know the first thing about showbiz.

And it's not how they do it in Hollywood. Why didn't he put at least one hell of a stick? He was clearly upset about mother. He clearly had his apples all fired up and he didn't even fucking watch neck one time. Ifte, ifte, he never even gave a damn with the nongi bangi, never put his thingy thing in the holes he was, he moved, moved, huh? If you ended up killing over 200 people, you'd think at least one time growing up, he would have choked out a cat or pushed a neighbor kid off of roof or stuck his pecker in a chicken.

Something that might make you say, you might be a killer. He didn't even seem honoured to be chose and didn't even seem to have to bone it. He got a boring really. I wouldn't even waste ten minutes having a drink without sniff. Speaking of sniffing drink shops, why can't you pour me a Steve drink? This suck might be thirsty. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Let's take some last look to Dr. Deaths in today's Top 5 takeaways. Number one, Harold Freddy Shemmon is the most prolific serial killer in British history. In the history of the world, we've said that numbers of months today can victims of

killing 15 in court, further investigations identified a total of 215 victims, an estimated total victim count of around 250, possibly much much more around 80% of them were elderly women You know no one killed Nana's and grandpapies like this dude did and hopefully no one ever does again Number two dude loved morphine love to use it on himself love to finish other people off with it So how does morphine make you high? Well it causes drowsinessiness, mental clouding, kills your ability to fill pain, makes you feel euphoric, it also causes mild hallucinations, makes you feel really, really chilling relaxed, and too much of it makes you go to sleep and never wake up. That's how it kills you.

Opioids kill by slowing your rate of breathing and depth of breathing to the point that you no longer are taking in enough oxygen to stay alive. Number three, Shipman's case changed the medical system in Britain in least half a dozen ways. The silver lining of this episode is that this tragedy forced many positive changes. Number four, we will just never know exactly why Shipman did what he did

because he never talked about it. Number five, new info until Shipman came along. Britain's worst serial killer was Victorian serial Poisoner, Mary Ann Cotton, who murdered an estimated 21 people in the 1870s, perhaps more mainly by arsenic poisoning. Another Poisoner, another member of the medical field. She was a nurse. She was also a housekeeper who was still his belief to be Britain's most prolific female

serial killer. She was hanged for the poisoning of her steps on Charles Edward Cotton cotton and of her estimated 21 victims 11 were her own kids. She had 13 kids and is thought to have killed 11 of them, also believed to have killed three out of four husbands to collect on insurance policies. Sounds like her and Belle Gunnest would have gotten along well or at least understood each other. Should we suck Mary cotton one of these days? Right in, let us know. Time suck, tough, five, take away. Harold Shipman has been sucked, Dr. Death, weird serial killer in the sense that we know so little about his thoughts, dude never gave us any info as to why he did what he did. But you know, if I had to be killed by one of the people we've covered, it would be

sure for sure be him, right? Morphine. Sounds like a lot better way to go to a lot better way to go than to be killed by Dahmer or Gacy or Bundy or any of those other fucking psychopaths we've covered. Big thanks to the time suck team. Thanks to Queen of the Suck Lindsey Cummins, high priestes of the Suck Harmony Vellacamp, Reverend Dr. Paisley, the Biddle Benelixer app design crew, Logan and Kate at SpicyClobron and BadMagicMurch.com and the Scripps Keepers Act Flattering.

Check out the cold to the curious private Facebook group if you want to make some new friends. Thank you to the countess of the cold Liz Hernandez for being a kick-ass administrator. Over 16,000 meat sacks in there to meet now. I was peaking in recently and just laughed my ass off at all the crazy fun posts. Thanks to the all-seeing eyes of the cult helping Liz moderate the Facebook group, Ellie Darling, Robbie Erickson, Megan Howell, Danny Reign, Jacob Carey, Juan Carlos Ramirez, Derrius, also the TimeSuck Discord channel via the TimeSuck app, over 5,000 die-hard suckers being goofy over there.

Thanks to beefsteak for what you're doing this quick. Oh, beefste suck. It's kind of a fun one too. Next week, fresh on the heels of the polarizing exploration of the Ruby Ritz standoff. I'm going to look into the Oklahoma City bombing 1995. A truck pack with explosives detonate on April 19, 1995 outside the Alfred P. Murrow, Fedra building, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, leaving 168 people dead hundreds more injured. The blast was set off by anti-government militant Timothy McVeigh, who in 2001 was executed

for his crimes. His co-conspirator Terry Nichols sentenced to life in prison until September 11, 2001, the Oklahoma City bombing was the worst terrorist attack to ever take place on US soil. Why did they do it? Who the hell was Timothy McVeigh? Who was Terry Nichols? Why did they do it? Who the hell was Timothy McVeigh? Who was Terry Nichols? Why did they want to attack their own government? I know almost nothing about their story. Looking forward to a lot of learning this coming week as we'd research it.

Now let's check in on some updates from this past weeks Ruby Ridge episode and other updates in today's Time Sucker Updates. her updates. Today's first update comes in from Meet Sack Supreme Gary Fips. Gary sent in this message via Patreon intended for the secret suck in the space lizards, but I thought it would be best to share it here. Gary writes, hails suck masters supreme. Gary bearer here, but listen for a little over a year now, recently became a space lizard about a month or so ago. I also converted my two good buddies Chris and

Tyler to becoming space is still working on my wife. She's on the fence. I'm a former US Army combat paratrooper, current marketing manager, family man, and an avid libertarian gun rights advocate. Well, thank you, Gary, for your service. Gary continues. First off, I'd like to say that I love the shit out of time, so I can you in general, not just because of the show and humor you pour into it, but because you're similar to me in the fact that you have a highly tuned bullshit detector. I feel like I can spot those types of people easily, and it gives me comfort that there are still people out there

who can think critically and not just with emotion. However, my message today does involve some emotion on my part. I listened to the Ruby Ridge time suck on Monday, as I'm always excited to hear the newest time suck after I get off work on my hour drive home. I was excited when you said you were doing this subject last week.

I've heard what others have said about Ruby Ridge similarly to how people glorify Killdozer. It was excited to hear your non-biased views as I've heard a lot from people who think he's a martyr of some kind. And I know that there's always two sides to a story. I agree with your views for the most part of the suck and it's okay not to agree 100%

on everything. This is not possible in any situation. However, I was a little disappointed with your views on the government and their overreach and you were not alone in their care. A lot of people disagreed and were disappointed with my views on the government's overreach in that situation. I don't want to misquote you or something like that. So I'll spare my ramblings, but I did have one question for your, given your

take on Ruby Rich. You stated numerous times you own guns and like guns, you were also a family man. You've also said that you lean more libertarian times as well. With all that being said, in the current gun debate, climate in the US, with legislation and fringe gun rights every day and states all over the country, imagine if there was legislation passed stating that if you own to firearm, whether it be an AR-15, shotgun, hunting rifle, or anything above, you'd have to turn the men or become a felon or mind how your guns confiscated. So my question to you is, where would you stand at that point?

Would you say the government is in charge and we should listen to them and turn in our guns to the police who will be tasked with confiscating them? Or would you say no? Gun ownership is an American human right to defend myself, my property, my family, and resist set unconstitutional legislation. There are ramifications in either decision. I chose the latter. I'm very interested in what your point of view is, even if it's not showcased on the

podcast, while you ponder your response, think of this quote from Ben Franklin, those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. That's a great quote. Yes, I'm going to, I will address this here on the podcast, Kerry. temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safe. That's a great quote. Yes, I'm gonna, I will address this here on the podcast, Kerry. If the government were to say, hand in all of our guns, I would absolutely support militia uprising.

I would not support handing in our guns. And I know many of you listening will disagree with me on this. Gary, I know you'll agree. I know many won't. I've thought about this a lot, especially since I think it was the branch to Vity and Waco siege episode. You know, I do think an armed citizenry is the best way to keep a government in check.

I was corrected in a previous view I had. When I said that, you know, simple rifles, even AR-15s would not stand up against the military mind of the US government. Maybe I said that in the branch to Vityon episode or maybe it was in the look on guns. That's not a while back But they they actually would in an insurgency similar to what we've seen in Vietnam and Afghanistan other places Think about how the might of the US military compared to ISIS And then and yet there are still ISIS right ISIS is still able to exist despite our military might

The Khmer Rouge episode made me think about the importance of gun ownership in America. How are the Khmer Rouge able to be so easily pushed around or how are they able to, you know, so easily push around a lot of Cambodian citizens? Well, partially because they weren't armed. I mean, if someone has a gun and you don't, they're going to be running the show. Our government is not totalitarian now, right? Despite what some people think. But what if it was 10 years from now? What if it suddenly got, you know,

to be a little handmade's tailish? You know, I'd wanna be able to fight back in that instance, I'd wanna have guns, and I'd want millions of other citizens to also have guns and be able to fight back. Wanting to have an armed citizenry, to me, is not paranoia, it's pragmatic, it's logical. Antivactors, right, they yell about vaccinations primarily

because they've always lived in a world where most lethal diseases are preventable and curable, right? They don't remember how bad things were before, so now vaccinations seem unnecessary than they take them for granted. I think the same is true with guns, right? People who laugh at the idea that we don't need an armed citizen anymore, I think are failing to look properly at history. We have never had to live through autocratic oppression. We have never had to fight in a revolution to keep our freedom or to have freedom. That doesn't mean we won't have to at some point. And if we do have to, I sure as fuck would like some guts. And as far as me, not, you know, I guess, focusing enough on government overreach in the Ruby Ridge case,

to me, it's about what, you know, the weavers did. It's like, yeah, that sucks that somebody took a shot on his wife in the situation they did, but it didn't happen like, what kills him about the Ruby Ridge thing is it didn't happen. It's not like, you know, he doesn't show up to court in the very next day. The fucking tanks are rolling in and they're just lighting them up. Now it went on for well over a year and he's doing like an armed, like he's guarding his property for the government.

Like to prevent the government from coming in, making his 14 year old son like doing arms like perimeter basically, you know, you know, defense of the property, but the government aren't coming for him at that point because they're just wanting to fucking oppress him. They're coming because he has broken the law and refuses over and over and over again to come to go. And at that point, yeah, then fuck you. Right. If you're going to engage knowingly in an armed standoff with the law enforcement of police,

in my opinion, you don't get to then fucking cry about how they came down to hard on you. It's like that's so fucking ridiculous. It's like when people resist arrests and then complain about police brutality Well, you shouldn't have fucking resisted arrest in the first place you fucking idiot Right, it's just so weird to me. It's like when somebody punches somebody and then gets their ass kicked and then they take that person to court Will the fucking kick me ass? Well, then you shouldn't have fucking punched them Well, you started the fight, you fucking dumb shit. All right, now back to Gary's message. Clearly I get worked up about this shit,

just like Gary does. Gary writes, I'm very passionate about this topic. Obviously I am too. Gary says, I have many good friends who don't agree with me on this, but I will not budge when it comes to my family's safety, my rights is human to keep and bear arms, no victim equals no crime in my eyes. That's a great point. Thanks for all the you do.

I enjoy time, so I can see your talk. We'll soon dive into scared to death. Please don't take this message the wrong way. I did not. I wouldn't have taken the wrong way if you would have been much more against what I said. I'm just curious to see how you make heads or tails of my viewpoint. And maybe one or both of us can walk away from this a little more edge of the topic. I think both.

Also looking forward to seeing this Saturday in St. Louis at Healing Comedy Club with Chris Tyler and CJ, 7pm. Hope I get to meet you. I'll practice the spaces you're greeting beforehand so I don't seem like an amateur. Aw man, I'm looking forward to giving you the shake. Your loyal spaces are gear bearer. PS, every time you mentioned the radio show in St. Louis

at 105.7, the point you mess it up. LOL, it's Rizudo show, not Rizzo show. They mentioned that a few weeks ago when you mentioned them in a past suck and they said they would talk to you about it. I actually was texting with Moon on the show this morning. I was, thank you for letting me know about this. So I was able to preemptively apologize. Yes. I love your stance, Gary. I hope we never ever need guns to fight for our freedom. But if we do, man, holy shit. I'm going to be glad to have some guns.

So hail fucking Nimrod. Our next update comes in from Top shelf meat sack Susan Rhymer. Susan wrote, hi Dan, I just listened to the Ruby Ridge suck and I'm so happy to hear a fair rash and take on the event. Having grown up in an assembly of God household, replete with copies of the late great planet Earth and other wacky little masterpieces I grew up fearing the mark of the beast, barcodes, satanic cults, proctor and gamble logos.

And being told that I'd have to defend my family someday. Even now in 2020, my dad is building his own off the grid, fight fiefdom in the mountains above Lake Shalan. My family has been a whirlwind of don't tread on me, flags, guns, and children without social security numbers. This is the shit I'm talking about. I think it's good to keep some guns, you know, theoretically keep the government in check,

but some people take it so far, I just get the feelings that they so want the government to come after them. They want a fucking shoot people, right? They want to have that war. They've dedicated their life for it. That to me is like, you just being a paranoid bloodthirsty weirdo.

And then they write, that and I'm one of the perverted, tranny weirdos, the edits of the internet complaint about boo. That was written and bisoosent. That was not my decision there. As usual, I loved your fair balance perspective. There's nothing wrong with Christianity. There's nothing wrong with living simply,

but there is definitely something wrong with the paranoid delusional hateful environment that I left behind, little Kirk Kamen reference. I hope this toxic brand of paranoia dies a much deserved death someday. Makes way for a hopeful, optimistic view of human beings in our collective future. Take care, Susan Rymers. Well, thank you, Susan. I love your thoughts here.

Yes, Christianity and general not the problem. This hateful version of Christianity is a big problem. And I also hope it dies. The fuck out completely more love and forgiveness, more calls to lead a positive and righteous life. Let's fire in Brimstone. Shove the fire in Brimstone up your fucking ass. Less arbitrary and subjective moral judgment based on cherry picked versus less calls for the end of days. Right. If you want the world to end that badly, you can't destroy yourself off a cliff. You don't have to take the rest

of us with you. Haill Nimrod. Now for an update regarding last week's Suck from Kickass Christian Meat Suck, Matthew Walkup. Talk about some good Christianity. Matthew writes, Dear Master Suck, bias upfront, I am a fundamentalist Christian every jot and tilled. You aren't wrong about these biblical literates.

They create their own God from the Bible like it's some fucking make your own adventure book. Also, the Bible isn't. Here's where you're wrong. Political, nor life's instruction manual. Your perspective on the Bible is merely the other side of the same coin. The Bible is to teach. Specifically, what man is to believe concerning God and what duties of God requires a man. Not a party line, not a political ideology, not whatever you, me, anyone thinks. If God exists, we must heed. And if he doesn't, we mustn't care. This is despite our own bias. Now, there are some practical, cultural,

and political ideas that can be extrapolated. For example, Matthew 20, 1 through 16, implies property ownership as a God-given right. But these concepts are entirely and silvery to the thesis of a given passage. Lastly, regarding false teachers, here's a sample of some harsh word Jesus had to say about them, whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to say it would be better

for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. Matthew 186. There's a lot more I can say. Starf it a long email being long already. Love the podcast. Great episode. Wouldn't change a thing three out of five stars.

Well, thank you, Matt. I feel like the premise of what you say about the Bible not being open interpretation, that it's, you know, people shouldn't bend into their will. This is a problem for many. It's just very difficult to interpret ancient pastures in a modern world, which is why I am against a strict form of literalism. And I think you are too. I think while you identify as a fundamentalist in your beliefs, you're not, clearly not,

literally taking each word from the Bible and trying to live exactly that way. You're focusing on the central thesis of the pastures. And that to me is interpreting it, a little bit, I feel like you have to, like if you look again at the book of Leviticus, I know I go to that one a lot, but chapter 20, verse 10, King James Version,

and the man that committed adultery with another man's wife, even he that committed adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer, and the adulterer, she'll surely be put to death. I don't think you would literally have somebody killed for adultery. I think you'd interpret this as God, letting Christians know that God doesn't like adultery.

It's not a good thing to do. It's harmful, it's bad, so you shouldn't do it. And again, that to me is interpreting it. I mean, does this make sense? You know, I just sense? I just feel like even when you're a fundamentalist, you're still not literally following each verse to the letter that it is written. You're taking the central message and living your life by that thesis as you kind of reference, not like actually taking somebody and fucking killing them for cheating. Thank you for hanging with my musings about your faith during that suck. I'm sure at points it was super annoying for you to have to listen to.

Awesome time, sucker Anthony Shaq. Now writes in with the message regarding a former time sucker update. I love these. I love when someone comments on what someone else is written. They write, greetings suck master and fellow meat sacks. I was recently listening to the Girl Scout murder suck and Derek from the updates really hit home for me. I am a recently divorced father of three year old. I too worked in the oil field work day and night traveling the country with my then wife and child doing what I thought at the time was the best thing for my family.

One day while I was working a few hours, where we were living my ex-wife came to my hotel, dropped off my then year and a half year old boy, two dogs and said she couldn't handle it anymore. I was completely lost and with traveling involved in the amount of hours I worked, I was forced to quit my job. I ended up moving back home with my kid, started working for about a quarter of what I used to. The last year and a half has been a constant struggle

with a massive amount of debt I was left with, but I am healthy, more importantly, my son is happy, healthy, surrounded by friends and family, they absolutely love him. I'm also in my hometown. I went through times of deep depression, anxiety, and just being pissed off at the world, but it does get better. Can't say that I'm doing great, but I'm okay with that now.

The best thing I did was figure out my life as an individual and father, and in the end, I know that whatever comes up with I can deal with. As I sit here and write this, I look at my son. I wonder how somebody wouldn't want him in his life and it makes me sad for her. Sorry for the long run on sentence, you know, making babble, but I guess I just want Derek to know he's not alone.

Things do get better over time. And in the end, the most important thing is that the little meatball, or raising is happy and healthy. They can truly save our lives and not even know it. Shout out to all the single parents out there doing the most important job in the world. Hail, Nimrod. Praise, Lucif Lucifina and most importantly keep on sucking. Well, thank you Derek for a beautiful message. Great job being a great dad. The world can never have enough

great parents. And there always seems to be a chronic shortage of great dads. So thanks for filling that in. Love what you're doing. Love that you took time to help inspire Derek by writing that message. Hail Nimrod to you, Luciferina. She thinks you're hot as fuck. She's coming for you, my friend. She loves single dads, taking care of the kids. New two more messages. Some funny ones to end on. Some comments law messages. Cody Hamilton writes in regarding being another victim of Cummins law. Let's hear about Cody's embarrassment. Cody writes, what's up, mother sucker? My name's Cody. I came across a suck a couple months ago via the Heartland Radio 2.0 podcast and it only took one episode for me to know I needed to suck hard. I listened to the suck via speaker. I keep my sweatshirt.

The reason for riding in is because of an embarrassing moment with my manager, via your unique fabric choices for your merch. I'm a zookeeper at a small zoo north of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I was listening to the Andrew Jackson suck and you were describing how the new sweatshirt was made out of 400% lemur belly button. You said this just as I was leaving the lemur house at the zoo and my manager was standing right outside the door. She looks at me and says,

I don't care what you listen to, just don't be harvesting any of our animal belly buttons. I couldn't help but laugh. Figuring you might get a kick out of this as well. Sorry for the long email. Hail Nimrod Prmojangles. Keep on sucking suck master. I love that so much, Matt. Cody, what are the fucking odds that someone will be leaving the lemur house of a zoo at the exact moment I'm talking about harvesting lemur belly buttons. And then that's when the lemur manager hears it. And I'm sure her job title is not lemur manager

by left pretending that it is. Thanks for enjoying this suck. Have fun with those lemurs. If they do die, rather than just barium, can you please send me at least one belly button? I got a lot of, let's not get a lot of shit to keep soft. And now Meet Sack extraordinaire Abby sends in one of the funniest messages I've gotten in a while. Another Cummins Law message, a bad slash good one. She writes, hello master of suck.

I was listening to your suck on Ruby Ridge. And when you chanted handy, Randy making the boys, Phil Dandy, handy, Randy, you just have to give him candy. My coworker who is named Randy, walked by. I later get called up to the HR office and find out I've received a notice from HR. Tell me me that chanting handy Randy is inappropriate.

And this mark will appear on my record. It seems that my coworker thought I was mocking him. Despite me being female and having a pretty pretty medium pitched voice, my coworker, thought that I was saying that he may need to get his hearing checked and I may have to wear earbuds when I'm near him. Thought you would get a good laugh out of that since nearly Nimrod's loyal follower Abby. Oh my God, I dig a good laugh.

Sorry he got ridden up and holy shit, what a fucking sense that a Sally Randi is? What a cry baby. Why couldn't he go talk to you? Sounds like Randi's a real bummer, a real Debbie Downer. If I worked with you, I would now dedicate myself to figuring out how I could sneak in more handy Randy Taunts

without getting fired. Handy, Randy, making the boys feel dandy. Maybe just hum that around him in the break room. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Leave a little note on his lunch. Hope you have a great day handy, Randy. I'm a child. Thank you for sending the message everyone and bye

yeee! Thanks, time suckers. I need a net. We all did. That's all for this week's, uh, that's all for this week's. That's all for this week's, that's all for this week's singular meat sex. Don't let your doctor give your grandparents a lesal dose of morphine. Instead, tell your sweet nanna and papa to stay away from needles and to keep on sucking. He clearly had his apples all fired up and he didn't even fucking want Nick one time. He clearly had his apples all fired up and he didn't even fucking much neck one time.