Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 354 - The Redemption Experiment of Serial Killer Jack Unterweger

Episode Date: June 26, 2023

In the Spring of 1990, when Jack Unterweger was released from prison in Austria after serving fifteen years for strangling an eighteen year-old to death with her own bra (amongst numerous other crimes), many of Austria's literary elite were convinced he was rehabilitated.  They'd even tried to get him pardoned years earlier after he'd written a bestselling autobiography, poems, short stories, and children's books that won him the hearts of not just other writers, but people all around Austria. They rejoiced when he was released after serving the minimum years of his lifetime sentenced. They would all soon learn he was more sadistic than ever.Wet Hot Bad Magic Summer Camp tickets are ON SALE!  BadMagicMerch.com Get tour tickets at dancummins.tv Watch the Suck on YouTube: https://youtu.be/XRvYXsDaNV0Bad Magic Charity of the Month: Over the years, we have tried to donate back to our local community here in Coeur D Alene. This month, we have decided that in honor of Pride month, we are going to donate locally to the North Idaho Pride Alliance whose mission is to connect LGBTQIA+ people and allies to various community groups so they may create a more inclusive North Idaho through Networking, Educating and Advocating. We donated $13,540 to this charity, and another $1505 to our scholarship fund. To find out more, you can visit nipridealliance.comMerch: https://www.badmagicmerch.comDiscord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89vWant to join the Cult of the Curious private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" in order to locate whatever happens to be our most current page :)For all merch related questions/problems: [e-mail] (copy and paste)Please rate and subscribe on iTunes and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcastWanna become a Space Lizard?  Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcastSign up through Patreon and for $5 a month you get to listen to the Secret Suck, which will drop Thursdays at Noon, PST. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. You get to vote on two Monday topics each month via the app. And you get the download link for my new comedy album, Feel the Heat. Check the Patreon posts to find out how to download the new album and take advantage of other benefits

Can a brutal rapist and killer ever truly be reformed in Australia in the 1980s? It seemed for some as if this exact phenomenon had happened Johan Jack Unterveger convicted of the senseless murder of an 18 year old girl amongst many other crimes had become a prolific writer while serving time in prison His children's stories plays poems and autobiography touched the hearts of many of Vienna's most renowned literary intellectuals, celebrities, politicians, and even a lot of average citizens. Jack's autobiography described his troubled childhood and he was able to gain a lot of sympathy for many. He didn't want to be a monster, he was turned into one. He now uses poetry to express his dark feelings safely. He was better now. He professed he was a changed man, truly 100% rehabilitated.

To many, Jack was living proof that the power of exercising one's demons through the written word, through education can heal a sick man and turn him from a brutal, sexually motivated killer into an enlightened and even invaluable member of society. Writers, reformists, and many others advocated for his early release. They wanted him pardoned. They weren't able to get him pardoned, but they were able to get him released much sooner than he should have been, which would have been never. Jack was released from President May of 1990 after serving only the required bare minimum

of his life sentence, 15 years. Once free, he enjoyed not only regaining his freedom, but his newfound fame, appearing on TV shows, working as a journalist and making the rounds amongst the upper class in Vienna. And while he was making many of these appearances, while he was also working as a journalist paid to cover true crime, just a few months after his release, Jack began to kill young women again. And he continued killing into the next year. In 1990 and 1991, Jack killed at least eight women in Austria on the Czech Republic.

And while he was killing these women, he was also reporting on their murders, paid to do so pretending to be an advocate for these victims as well. Jack was a suspect due to his criminal past, but initially there was no evidence to connect him to the murders, no hard evidence. And the public in general thought that there was just no way that Jack could be behind the killings. Almost, but not all of the victims were sex workers. The killer transported them to the from the cities of Vienna and Grots to wooded areas where they were typically strangled with their own pantyhose, uh, bras later in California. In most cases, the killer left

them naked except for their jewelry. With each new victim, it was found the MO remained ascended to the same. In June of 1991, Jack traveled to Los Angeles, California on a journalism assignment. While he was there, he kept killing sex workers. And kept covering the crimes as a journalist. Now, detectives on two continents are trying to find the same killer, a killer who should have still been behind bars a killer who was anything but rehabilitated He had changed in prison, but not in any good ways. He got more sadistic

He was just better at hiding his rage now He was more sophisticated with his brutality more skilled in his manipulation and hungrier than ever when it came to feeding his worst impulses and desires Today will discuss the early life and crimes of the darkly charming Jack Ountereger, his many later victims, how investigators from two continents worked together to finally stop him on another true crime. I've been wanting to learn more about this evil sack

of shit for years, and now it's finally happening, edition of Time Suck. This is Michael McDonald and you're listening to Time Suck. You're listening to Time Suck. Happy Monday, meets, Axe. Welcome to the Cult of the Curious. So excited to hit a million episodes today. One million straight weeks of time suck. Roughly, if you round it way up.

Yeah, comments, master sucker, mush mouth, profanity promoter, God's letter carrier, and you were listening to time suck. Hail Nimrod, hell is Daphina. Don't be in the house, but jangles while you're scrolling social media, trying to find and report Russian closet,

communist bots, and glory be to triple M. Quick reminder that if you're in the Spokane Washington area this summer around CDA, my only summer tour dates are two nights in Spokane, the Spokane Comedy Club August 4th and 5th, where I will be enthusiastically selling some new favorite ideas. The income is dot TV for ticks. You can go to badmagicmerch.com this month for our pride collection, swim trunks, water bottles, giant pride flags pride flags t-shirts like the one I'm wearing

We celebrate the shared experience of learning for all walks of meat sack Almost all not fucking serial killer's a pedophiles you guys can go fuck yourselves and gals But most most walks of meat sex We appreciate our LGBTQI plus friends and allies and the contributions you continue to make to the world that we all live in. Team meets sack motherfuckers. Again, if you want to share your pictures on socials, once you get your merch tag, Bad Magic Pride, so Logan can find you. And then one last thing before I tell the story, recording this right after getting back from

a scout trip to the woods of Northeast Pennsylvania. For this year's Wet Hot Bad Magic Summer Camp September 21st of the 24th. Wow. The land this year's camp on is incredible. 14 tennis courts and archery area ropes course zip line outdoor soccer fields and door soccer fields. Jim big like workout Jim yoga studio. Just so much shit. Private spring fed lake with like jets keys and a beach from swimming. Fish and doc right did catch two bass in about 30 minutes. Massive food, the hall lodge with incredible meals,

those ribs were fire, so with pancakes, awesome sound system for live music. We hung out during another camp going on for some other people and they were losing their minds having so much fun. It was a beautiful thing to watch and I'm fucking pumped to build so many memories this September to hang out with like, mind, to curious folk in real time, right?

Real life, no Instagram fees, no TikTok or Facebook, highlight bullshit, real meets acts from all different walks of life, having fun together, laughing and learning while we, you know, traveled this world together and find out that we're generally more like than we are different when we spend time with one another. So hail, Nimrod, tickets available, also at BadMagicMurts.com. And actually also, congratulations to my son Kyler comments, graduating high school in a few days as I record this. We'll have graduated by the time you hear us. The bigger boy is a man. So very proud dad. He's a great, great Medsack. And excited for the next chapter of his life and you know try not to let my allergies get too far down. I think about it

And now, you know, let's talk about the kind of person I am hoping and assuming will not be a camp someone who didn't just do something cool in his life like a graduate high school Someone who was real piece of shit Narcissistic sadistic and sadly probably also a brilliant waste of talent. Austrian serial killer, Jack Oundraveger. Pretty simple structure for breaking down today's dirt bag of the week. I'm going to spend about 10 to 15 minutes talking about his family tree, followed by 30 or so minutes, going over some notes he wrote in class and grade school to a guy listed as Vinny and sources. Then I'm gonna spend about, I don't know,

45 minutes or so, going over Jack's top 10 favorite meals, 15 or 20 minutes after that, discussing what bands he would like to listen to and why. And then you know, we'll wrap up with about, I don't know, four or five minutes of true crime. Or maybe structure today's episode in a way that makes it bearable to listen to instead. Maybe we'll kick shit off today by introducing you to the Vienna

Woods killer, the name given to the serial killer that was targeting sex workers in Vienna and Gratz, Austria, followed by a full timeline of Jack Unterveger's life in crimes. Let's go with that one. Although Jack Unterveger's case made international headlines in the 90s and did get some attention here in the US, he is not nearly as well-known today here as many other infamously serial killers. After learning the basic details, I was very surprised by that. I was surprised that Derbegg wasn't nearly as well-known or almost as well-known as I say Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy, but timing is everything even when it comes to multiple murders.

The LA Times wrote in a 2007 article that Jack's story is obscure in the States because it was completely overshadowed by the trial of the officers in the Rodney King beating and the O.J. Simpson trial. Okay, it's fair. Jack's case did get a lot of attention in many parts of Europe, especially Austria and elsewhere around the world though. Huge deal in Austria. Author John Leake suggested Jack was actually the first global serial killer. At least you know, that we know of. Serial killers generally stick to areas that they

know serial killers who travel long distances and those who kill on different continents are much less common. John Leake is the author of entering Hades, the double life of a serial killer, a detailed account of Jack's life and crimes and the main source for today's timeline. Leake is an American translator and writer who spent six years in Vienna. While there he interviewed all kinds of people involved with the case and read quote millions of words in various documents per the New York Times. Most of his research focused not on Jack's crimes in Los Angeles, but on the many more crimes he committed back in his home country.

In the spring of 1991, several sex workers were murdered, or went missing in Austria. Their bodies discovered and wooded areas around the cities of Vienna and Gratz. Gratz's Austria's second biggest city after Vienna. While Vienna has almost 3 million people living in its metro area, Watts a little less with about 300,000. Two cities were separated by almost exactly 200 kilometers or 124 miles. The murders made headlines, major headlines in both cities for months and months.

On May 22, 1991, the newspaper Courier published a front page story about Jack's murders titled, prostitute and Vienna murdered three still missing. The article read four prostitutes of gone missing without a trace from the Penzing neighborhood of Vienna. On Monday, one of them, Sabine Moizzi, 25, was found strangled in the Scots Woods by a hiker. Now there is grave concern for the lives of the three still missing. In the Red Light District, the fear of death prevails. It was here in the same article that the press

began calling the unidentified killer, the Vienna Woods Killer. John League wrote that Unterveger's victims were from the lowest class of street prostitution. Not very attractive. None of them had strong pimps to stake out corners from them near the neon lit nightclubs. They were pushed off to the fringes of the district to lonely ill lit corners. No one was looking after them, which was doubtless why the killer had selected them. Here we go again, right?

A human wolf looking to pick off the most marginalized sheep from the herd. Jack will typically kill victims on Sundays, Mondays or Tuesdays when there's less traffic in these neighborhoods. And you know, when many people are asleep, Jack for his active as he was, for his many mistakes as he will make with his killings, he was able to show a lot of restraint when it came to indulging in his most sadistic impulses, made a lot of effort to reduce his chances of being apprehended by typically picking the most vulnerable victims and killing them

when and where there would be the fewest witnesses around. At least he did that after serving a decade and a half in prison for the first time he was caught killing. The murders he kept committing in 1990 and 1991 were especially terrifying because Vienna was and actually still is such a safe city overall. Author League wrote that in the 90s, they'd be in a homicide section, was smaller than you would expect for a city of its size, because homicides were so rare. In 1990, there were 50 murders in the city of 1.5 million people, you know, at that time

1.5 million, and that was a 30-year high. That is not the metro area, anyone cares. For comparison, there were 983 murders in Los Angeles, which had a population of 3.5 million at that time. So 3.3 murders for every 100,000 people compared to 28 for every 100,000 people. I want to go from Vienna to Los Angeles. Vienna infinitely safer than Los Angeles. Austrian detectives trying to apprehend, Jack seemed ill-equipped to catch a killer like Unterveger.

He would be the first serial killer any of them had ever investigated. While violent crime increased after World War II in the US and in many other places, the same did not happen in Austria. Leak wrote, after the turmoil of the first half of the 20th century, the disillusion of the monarchy in 1918, the Civil War in 1934, the crime and destruction of the Nazi period from 1938 to 1945, and the oppression of the four powers occupation from 1945 to 1955, the Austrians were determined to create political and social harmony. And outside of Unterveger, they had largely done just that.

By 1991, when Jack was released, Vienna was one of the cleanest and safest cities in the entire world. Vienna, like I said, still a very safe place to live. The Economist Intelligence Unit releases an annual ranking of the world's most livable cities. The EIU is a sister organization to the economist, which is a prestigious weekly British newspaper, focusing on current affairs, business, politics, technology, and culture. And in 2022, the EIU ranked 173 cities around the globe based on healthcare, crime rates, political stability, infrastructure, and access to green space. Vienna was ranked number one, followed by Copenhagen and Zurich, best city to live in in the entire

world. Incidentally, no U.S. city crack to top 25. Highest on the list was Atlanta at number 26. Next up, Washington DC at 29, followed by Honolulu at 30 and Pittsburgh at number 36. I don't know why Pittsburgh. I haven't spent a ton of time in Pittsburgh. I've actually heard it's a very great city to live in. It shows up in a lot of like, you know, good livability kind of city indexes. Court of Lane, not on the list. Why not? I mean, sure, Billy Joel never titled a song after this, but we're not exactly shittles. Come on, EIU. Sex work was and still is legal in Austria, and has been regulated by the government there ever since 1986. Interesting that vice is legal in a city ranked in a comprehensive index as the best fucking city on

earth for the average resident to live in. Oh, crazy. Maybe sex is evil. Maybe becoming a more sexually liberal society could actually lead to, I don't know, more happiness and not some Sodom and Gomorrah cesspool of defilement and debauchery. What a wild notion. Also because I was curious while drugs are not legal in Austria, Austrian drug policy does emphasize treatment for small time in addicted offenders over incarceration. The prosecution of persons apprehended with small amounts of drugs like recreational amounts, very rare, often replaced with a probationary period if the offender agrees to take part in therapy. Addicted offenders often eligible to undergo treatment instead of incarceration.

So good on you, Austria. Nimrod and Lucifino approve. I think you could be even more tolerant to drugs, but with them. But you seem to be heading the right direction. You're doing better than we are. I downloaded some UN stats on drug use patterns, broken down globally by country. They have a ton of comprehensive info if you're willing to come through a bunch of spread sheets.

And here's how the US and Austria compared in 2020. Most recent year for the info, when it comes to the annual prevalence of use as a percentage of the population, age 15 to 64. For cocaine, 2.4% of Americans snorted or smoked that shit compared to 2.42% of Austrians, almost exactly the same. For meth, 5.65% of Americans used math compared to 2.31% of Austrians. For

opioids, 4.56% of Americans, 0.54% of Austrians. Thank you, Purdue Farmer. When I said it, the war on drugs in the US isn't working. I'm not just talking shit. I'm speaking truth based on piles and piles of data from around the world. A punitive model is not more effective than a model of treatment and or tolerance. It is less effective. Yet, we continue to slam our collective head into the same wall, expect a different result, you know, than the thousands of times we slammed our head to that wall before. Refocusing on vice-specific to today's narrative.

Pimping was, and still is illegal in Austria. But the were pimps, when Utre Vega found found his victims and lots of unregistered sex workers working for them. The police in Austria tolerated illegal sex work for the most part, not an investigation of priority at all, as long as it didn't result in violence or public disorder. Thanks to a very different relationship between law enforcement and sex work, then what exists here in the US, the homicide rate among sex workers was actually no higher than the homicide rate amongst the general population at the time of Unterreger's murder.

So in the homicide rate of the nation, as I mentioned, far lower than it is here. It's almost like Austria's way of dealing with common vice crimes is better than what we are doing. I will say that the way they have dealt with sex offenders and violent criminals fucking sucks way too relaxed in that regard, as you'll see here today. Because of Vienna's relaxed attitude towards sex work, many wondered how the Vienna Woods killer was able to get sex workers to go into the woods with him. The police noted that the killer must have been very skilled in either abduction or charm, getting women to let their guards down because they couldn't find any sex workers who reported

that a client tried to take them into the woods. Jack Ujraveger was a charming motherfucker, dude, was built at a dark charm. Investigators spent hours talking to sex workers and pimps and looked into different sex offenders. Many women submitted tips about their abusive or unfaithful partners. Some of those tips did point towards Jack, but many others pointed elsewhere and Austrian investigators weren't that close to making an arrest until American authorities helped their investigation. The unknown killer in addition to being the Vienna Woods killer was also called Jack the

Ripper of Vienna before anybody knew that the killer was actually named Jack. A report published by the Association of Police Inspectors called the killer Jack the Struggler Apparently a misspelling of Jack the Strangler Jack the Struggler sounds more like someone who would like to be a serial killer But just can't quite pull off murder in anybody Just a guy who keeps trying and you know keeps getting you know fought off when victims, you know struggle back against him and you know, keeps getting, you know, fought off when victims, you know, struggle back against him. Jack the Struggler struck again last night, hit a young woman jogging in a downtown park in the back of the head and knocked her to the ground. He then tried to drag her into the bushes, but he'd

hit her with a plastic whiffleball bat, and the blow didn't really knock her down so much as she was just startled and stumbled and fell. Then when he grabbed her, she pushed him down and kicked him a few times in the ribs, and started crying and begging for her to stop. She then easily ripped the whiff of all bad from his hands and whacked him about the face head and neck over a dozen times before resuming her run. She said when she called police a minute or so later, that Jack the Strucker was literally sobbing,

quote, like a baby, snott was pouring out of his nose and his cheeks were puffy. It was really pathetic and embarrassing. Police were unable to find the miscreant who seemed to have scurried away again, and is undoubtedly lurking about in some bushes on Ali now. Authorities do not seem concerned, the suspect is not considered armed and dangerous, and police are confident he'll try and attack someone soon who will easily beat him to death. Too bad Jack Unterveger wasn't, uh, you know, more of a Jack the Struggler type, less of a Jack the Ripper. I wouldn't have a story today, but a lot of people still be alive.

author John Leake wrote, like the East End of London in the summer of 1888, Vienna's Red Light District at the end of May 1991 became a place of fear. Because of his criminal past in a nation of you know very few murderers Jack Onderveger was a suspect in the murders to be clear, but from unsolvable he didn't have any proof he was involved. And despite his past, many in the media and also in law enforcement and elsewhere, they just couldn't accept that he wasn't actually rehabilitated. And they stubbornly refused to connect a guy who'd become a celebrity, a shining example of the power of reform and forgiveness

to the brutal murders. Winterveger was an extremely charismatic serial killer, even at his second trial for murders after serving extensive time in prison for a previous murder and other cases of sexual abuse. He still had more female fans and admirers and would- be lovers that appears than Ted Bundy had during his final trial. A lot of people love Jack, especially women,

but Jack certainly didn't love them back, especially the women. He hated women. Curiously, as you'll hear, Jack would be a really hated sex workers and seem to see virtually all women as sex workers, whether they were or not. It was like he categorized all women as either active sex workers or would be sex workers. And then he charmed them into trusting him enough to allow him to put them in dangerous and compromising positions. And then he betrayed that trust by brutally beating and killing them. Let's dig into the details of the characterizations I'm making now with today's timeline of this extremely gifted yet also totally broken dirt bags life

We're marching down a time suck timeline Johann Jack Uttarthegar If I said like that with the entire episode Uttarthegar Who we talking about say Uttarthega. What if I said like that with the entire upside? Uttarthega. Who are you talking about? Uttarthega. He was born on August 16th, 1950 in Yudenburg, in the state of Sterea, Austria. Sterea, a state in the southeast, a portion of the nation. It was a second, or it is, the second largest state in the country. The capital is the city of Gratz.

Gratz is the second largest city in Austria, as I said before, of being the largest. January of 2021, population estimated to be around 331,000. Jack was born, population was around 226,000. Grots has four colleges, four universities, over 60,000 students, attend school there. The oldest university is the University of Grots, and it was founded back in 1585. And former Sucks subject and energy wizard, Nikola Tesla once studied there. Gratz was formerly spelled Gratz. There's no T there, but you still pronounce it with the T, I guess.

The name comes from the Slavic word Gratich, which means small castle, archaeological evidence indicates that Alpine Slavic people once built a small castle in what is now the center of Grots. The oldest settlement in Grots dates way back to the Copper Age. Between 3,200 and 2,300 BCE, several millennia later in the 12th century CE, local dukes made the town a commercial center. The state of Stereo was once inhabited by Celtic tribes.

In Roman times, it was part of the Roman provinces of Pannonia and the east and Noracom in the west Stereo was conquered by different people during the barbarian invasion It's a period of history during the fall of the Roman Empire that lasted from 300 to 800 CE Slava settled in the area around 600 CE In 1918 Stereo was divided into north and south. Lower Stereo is now part of Slovenia, and formerly was part of Yugoslavia. Currently, the population is around 1.2 million, back in 1951, the year after Jack was born,

it was just over 1.1 million. Judenberg, Jack's birthplace, as a historic town, right around 10,000 people in the upper Stereo region. Judenberg was first mentioned in a document from 1074 CE as a market town within the estates of the Bavarian, Ipan Steiner, noble family. The name means Jews burrow, which refers to Yudenberg's origin as a trading outpost populated mainly by Jewish people on the route from the Mervali across the Opedach saddle mountain

past to, uh, Corinthia. In 1938, Yudenberg became part of the Third Reich. And as you can imagine, Hitler and his buddies said they didn't love the name. They planned on renaming the town, but then allies kicked the fucking shit out of those scumbags. Sadly, though, before that happened, a subcamp of the Mounthausen Nazi concentration camp was unfortunately built near Yudenburg, and an untold number of residents died there in the war. Transitioning back into Jack's early life, Jack's parents were Torecia, Unzureveger, and Jack Becker. Torecia was a barmaid in a waitress and maybe also a sex worker. Also, this depiction seems to originate with her son,

Jack, and he saw almost every woman as a sex worker, so maybe she was. Jack Becker was an American soldier. The two met in Trieste, Italy, a seaport in the Northeast part of the country near Slovenia and Croatia. Croatia, I don't know why I added an extra cell over there. Jack wrote about his father of my paternity. I knew only a name. The GI came from Trieste. His home was in New Jersey.

Perhaps he gave coveted dollars or silk stockings for it. Perhaps it was a great but doomed love between the soldier and a girl who was too young and without the means to be my mother. John Lake wrote that Teresa Ounturvega left home in her late teens. While Teresa was pregnant with Jack, she was jailed for fraud, released a few weeks before her son was born. Jack was named after his father. Teresa told Jack his father's name and said she met him. The autumn before he was born. Treesia was arrested a second time in 1953 when Jack was just two years old.

And Jack was sent out of the out into the country of the primarily rural Austrian state of Corinthia to live with his grandfather who was a piece of shit. It seems an abusive alcoholic. Corinthia is the southernmost state in Austria located in the eastern Alps. Jack would live with his grandfather for seven years and was, quote, raised among prostitutes in an Austrian village according to the LA Times, but again, that depiction seems to originate with Jack.

Maybe being around sex workers was a major part of his upbringing, maybe not. I do think he had some interactions for sure, based on how obsessed with sex workers he becomes. When Jack was three years old, his mother married an American soldier in Salisburg named Donald Van Blarcom. Jack never met a stepdad as he continued to live with his grandfather but when he saw photos he noticed that he looked a lot like Van Blarcom which led him to conclude that the man was his father and not Jack Becker.

Jack wrote about his childhood and his famous autobiography. My about a childhood home, excuse me, he wrote, my eyes burned from the smoky air in the low little room. The women prattled the men played cards. I was the house and court fool, a slave, educated by grandfather to be a frauds accomplice. I sat on his lap, plain dumb. Later I moved to my uncle's lap and betrayed his cards to grandpa. I was the ace in his sleeve. His fists were my teacher and I was a good student.

Jack's book he described how he longed for his mother to come back for him, but then his grandfather would tell him that she was, quote, a tramp with no time for you. Super sad if true. Maybe it was true. But also, Jack is such a manipulative mother, fucker. Did that shit happen? Or did you write it to make people feel sorry for him? Jack wrote that he traveled to Salzburg to look for his mom. Instead, he found her sister, his aunt Anna, whose he says was also a sex worker. And Jack wrote that Anna was murdered by her last customer. So was he raised buying around almost nothing but sex workers? Or did he push that narrative

to get people to think, oh, so that's why he did what he did Because of his upbringing Because of the trauma he experienced while surrounded by sex work But now he understands and is better and it's not gonna hurt anybody again Jack started drinking schnapps at the age of five according to an article by the independent as he grew up his behavior became increasingly troubled He wrote that he was a disturbed child who enjoyed being bad. I do believe that. Jack did spend much of his youth incarcerated, that's certain.

From 1966 to 1974, between the ages of 16 and 24, he was convicted of crimes a full 16 times. Jack started off with minor theft, but then by the age of 16, he was committing crimes such as robbery, car theft, burglary, fraud, and then sex crimes. As written in Leaks book, a series of jail sentences had no corrective effect. Jack would later confess, I wielded my steel rod among the prostitutes and pimps of Hamburg, Munich, and Marseille. I had enemies and conquered them through my inner hatred.

Interesting that he mentions a steel rod here. He was a big fan of using steel rods on victims, as we'll learn. In 1967, it's only 16 years old. Jack has arrested for violently assaulting a sex worker. The first crime we can find in the sources, unfortunately, we don't have details regarding the attack. It's the first crime that a specific date is pointed to. Three years later, 1970, when Jack was 19, he's arrested for abducting a 16-year-old girl

who he tried to coerce into sex work. From 1973 to 1974, numerous girls in different towns make a variety of complaints against Jack. Meanwhile, when he's not committing crimes against women and also not get into much trouble apparently for that, he's working as a waiter, filling station attendant, when he's not committing crimes against women and also not getting into into much trouble, apparently, for that he's working as a waiter, filling station attendant, and a radio disc jockey. While working as a disc jockey, a girl named Daphne and Salzburg reported that on May 13th, 1974, Jack offered her a ride home from the bar. This is one of the first crimes of his that we have like real details for.

And before I share those details, we're going to take our mid show sponsor break. Thanks for sticking around. Now back to the show where we pick up with the first of Jack's crimes we have details for went on a May 13th, 1974. He offered a girl known in sources as Daphne and Salzburg, a ride home from the bar. Daphne said Jack was good looking and nicely dressed, drove a Ford Mustang. But then once she was in his car, he didn't take her home as he had promised. Instead, he drove her out past the city limits,

left the main road behind, drove across a quiet meadow, surrounded by bushes, where his car conveniently got stuck in the mud. She had a funny feeling, tried to leave, but when she attempted to run, he knocked her to the ground and then soon raped her. Daphne's victim statement read, as I tried to scream, he hit me on the head with his fists

and push my face down into the mud. Then he pulled off my shoes and ripped my stockings for my body. He then turned my wrist behind my back and wrapped the stocking around it and then did the same with the other wrist. And then tied it off with a large knot in the middle so that my hands were wrist behind my back and wrapped the stocking around it and then did the same with the other wrist and then tied it off with a large knot in the middle so that my hands were bound behind my back with a few centimeters of playroom between each wrist. Now bound, he picked her up out of the mud, pushed her into the car, raped her with a steel fucking rod, inserted into her vaginally while he masturbated.

Though, you know, obviously terrifying. When he was down, he cut her wrist free, asked if she would turn him in, afraid for her fucking life. Of course, you know, Daphne said she wouldn't. Luckily before he decided that, you know, maybe he's gonna kill her anyway. At that moment, another car showed up and a young man got out and asked if Daphne needed help. Daphne ran to him, asked for a ride,

which he gave her, and then they went straight to the police. Her attacker was quickly identified as Jack Wintervager. He was arrested and put in jail. In jail, he took a large amount of prescription painkillers and then his suicide attempt led to him getting placed in a psychiatric clinic in Salzburg. And instead of being severely punished for that shit, he was soon released for reasons never made entirely clear in sources. I don't know if she refused to testify at the time. I don't know what the fuck went on. Easy on drug and vice crimes, Austria. No, cool. But easy on sexually violent crimes is not cool. What is wrong with the world in general in that regard? It just continually disturbs me. Daphne was very lucky to have gotten away from her sexual

assault alive. Even though he was never convicted of any murders prior to his attack or this attack, he very likely had already killed at least one other woman. Just over a year before Jack attacked, you know, just before he attacked Daphne, on April 1st, 1973, a man and his son were fishing on the banks of the Salzac Lake in Salisburg, Austria. The couple, the man saw a couple boys running towards him who told him to look out onto the water. When he did, he saw dead body floating about 20 feet from the shore. The body was out of a young woman, naked from the waist down, a red necktie with checkered stripes have been wrapped around her wrists and her killer had wrapped his tape around her head and over her mouth.

She had two black eyes, the result of being hit in the face repeatedly. Her legs have been bound together with a pair of pantyhose. Investigators determined that she had been dragged into the lake and then drowned. Her time of death was estimated to have been between midnight and 2 a.m. the night before her body was found, Seaman was found in her vagina. The next morning, a man named Mato Horvath came to the police station

to report his wife, Marika Missing. Marika had gone into the city on the evening of March 31st, then never came home. Mato showed the police her passport photo. He was then taken to the institute of forensic medicine to identify the woman found in the river, how tragic man, what an unbelievably terrible soul-crushing day for that guy. He positively identified his missing wife, 25-year-old Marika Horvath. She was born in Croatia, met her husband in 1970. They moved to Austria looking for work. She found work as a maid. He got a job as a truck driver.

On March 31st, Montau went into the city to watch a movie and we got home. Marika was gone. The neighbor said she had left at 6 p.m. to take a bus into the city. She didn't come home. When she still hadn't come home by the next afternoon, you know, Montau was freaking out. After her body was spotted, a fisherman found her purse, which contained her wedding ring. Her shoes were also found along the nearby river. The wedding ring, I think, is an important note.

Jack never takes jewelry from his victim's bodies. This one was unusual in that she was drowned and not strangled, but a lot of times early on in their killing sprees, serial killers will experiment before landing on a more consistent MO. Inspector August Skinner worked on this case. He focused on the necktie used to tie Marika's hands together. That tie had a label indicated it had been bought in vells, a city of around 60,000 located 60 miles east of Salzburg.

The tie was manufactured by Maestro, Clothing and Vienna, delivered to Molden Steiner, a little shop in vells on March 8, 1973. The shop owner reported that the tie was sold later that month, but no one remembered who bought it. However, the shop owner did remember that a young man was looking for a tie to match a suit, a photo of the tie was put up around vells and Salzburg, but the case went cold. On December 11th 1974, Jack definitely murders. 18-year-old Margaret Schaefer, a young German woman.

Jack said it as later trial that when he killed Margaret, he saw his mother reflected in her face. He said he killed Margaret because he felt enraged by the way his mother had abandoned him. But that make you feel sorry for him. I would be honest, it wouldn't change shit for me. You know, cool story, bro. Sorry, you hated your mom.

You might want to try and make your piece with your mom real quick because I just scheduled your execution for tomorrow morning at 6am Motherfucker mommy issues don't justify murder shit face next case Let's discuss what led to Jack murdering Margaret now January of 1975. He was 24 years old. He had two girlfriends at this time You know girlfriends who knew each other knew each other was also a girlfriend A 16 year old girl named Maria and an 18 year old girl named Barbara. The trio had formed a little gang in the fall of 74.

According to one of the sources, both girls were so infatuated with Jack that they stayed with him and worked as hookers instead of returning to their middle class families. So he was pimping out to, you know, teen lovers when he was 24. Super cool dude with a lot of respect for women uh... jack made a plan to steal from barbers family home in germany but when this plan failed he said he robbed a murdered barbers neighbor and friend margaret shaffer instead

or killed her because she reminded him of mama like he also said or maybe that was just some sympathy plea bullshit uh... jack maria barber all robbed a jewelry store and fled to Switzerland. In Basel, Jack made a plan to ran some Maria, gave her parents wiring instructions. And when he walked into a bank to pick up the wire transfer, he was arrested by Swiss police.

When Barbara was arrested along with them, the police linked her to Margaret, and then an interrogator asked her what she and Jack were doing on December 11, 1974. And this is what she told him. She said that on the night of December 11th, Jack and Barbara drove from Frankfurt to the little village of Urzbach in Germany to get money and other items from her parents' house. The house was locked and her parents were in

science, so Jack suggested they go rob somebody else. Just then, Barbara spotted her neighbor Margaret who was coming home from going out bowling with some friends. They spoke for a minute. Barbara asked Margaret if she had to go home. And Margaret said, no, Barbara asked her if she wanted to hang out with her 100 boyfriend, Jack. Margaret said, sure. Now the girls got in the back seat while Jack drove. Jack asked if they wanted to go somewhere for a drink. They parked across the street from a bar.

And then when Jack asked Barbara, do you have anything else you want to tell her? Barbara said no and Jack said, then now we'll get to the point. Apparently Jack then grabbed Margaret by her shirt, pulled her into the front seat. She asked what he was doing. He told her nothing would happen if she stayed calm. He was debelt from Barbara's coat to tie up her hands, then put her on the floor between the front and back seats. Jack now took 30 marks.

The equivalent of only $12 bucks, $12 US dollars from her purse. As if she had more money at home, Margaret said she had 100 marks more, just a 40 bucks US and a dresser. Barbara snuck in her house then, took the money, some clothes as well, and then they all drove back away from town.

When they later stopped for gas, Jack told Barbara it's time to make your friend disappear. Margaret cried as Jack when he was doing. They now drove for an hour to the little city of airborne Germany where Jack asked Barbara if she knew of a quiet hidden place in the woods. Barbara directed him to a country restaurant. From there they drove out into a forest road and when they were far from anybody else Jack pulled over.

He told Margaret to take her clothes off. She begged him to leave her alone. But Jack said he would take whatever he wanted and that she would do whatever he wanted. Margaret asked her friend, Barbara, what is he going to do with me? Margaret refused to take her clothes off, so Jack hit her. Then he and Barbara pulled her clothes off. Margaret asked Barbara why she couldn't help her.

She said nothing, just shrugged. She later said she was scared, confused, didn't know what to do. Jack pulled Margaret out of the car and asked Barbara if she wanted to come with him. She said no, stayed in the vehicle. Jack now tied Margaret's hands behind her back, took a steel rod from the center console and led Margaret into the woods.

Right, there's that fucking steel rod again. Barbara didn't see him take Margaret's bra with him around 15 minutes later. Jack returned with the steel rod, which was now covered in blood and hair. She asked him what he did and Jack said there's no way she can betray us now. They then threw out the steel rod, jacks boots, and all the clothing except for Margaret's fur coat. Barbara said in the statement, I was terribly afraid for her, but also for myself. I couldn't formally clear thoughts of what to do.

Well, Hunter's found Margaret's body three weeks later at the foot of a tree, and her bra was knotted around her neck. She was found naked, but interesting, considering Jack's supposed motive and was robbery, she still had jewelry on her autopsy found that she was repeatedly struck on the head neck and upper body manually strangled and then strangled again with her bra. Sources do not mention that she was raved, but I do think this crime was sexually motivated. Right? Did he masturbate again? Like with Daphne, perhaps while violating her with that steel

rod, did three weeks in the woods, just, you know, erased traces of his semen. In the spring of 1975, in Guster, in Guster, I just combined August and Inspector. In Guster Schenner. That's a weird term. Inspector August Schenner learned that the Salzburg day was planning to prosecute a young man for sexual assault. And the same man was also suspected of killing a German girl in December of 1974. He was waiting trial to Salzburg jail. Skinner obtained his files and learned that he was, of course, Jack Ountrowveger. Skinner learned that Jack had been released from the Vells jail in January of 1973. As a reminder, the tie used to bind a Maureka Horvath's hands, purchased in Wells, that March.

June of 1975, Skinner questioned Jack in a Salzburg jail. Jack said that on the night of March 31st, when uh, Marika Horvath was murdered, he was arrested in Germany, when he tried to cross the border there, but then it was discovered that that was not true. He lied.

Skinner confronted him with the fact that he was actually arrested on April 4th, right? Cotton lie, Jack now said, I guess I must have been in Switzerland at that time. So some alibi. Skinner knew that the killer transported a marica by car to the lake. He could find no record of Jack owning a car at that time and Jack said he traveled by train or hitchhiking, even though he was driving. Jack couldn't prove that though. He also couldn't prove he was not in Salzburg on the night of the murder. Schenner could find no conclusive record of him in the city before August of 1973. Schenner thought Jack was the killer, strongly, but didn't have enough evidence to charge him with murder.

This is going to happen time and time again with Jack. Schenner continuing pursuing the case for years would find some incriminating evidence against Jack, you know, more evidence, but not enough again to make an arrest. In July of 1975, Jack now goes to trial for, quote, violent offenses against four girls though. That's all the sources say it appears to authors who have written about Jack have had trouble getting details about some of these crimes. Not speaking German or having access to Austrian academic or legal databases. I can't say this for certain, but I'm guessing that the details of certain crimes of his such as sexual crimes committed against, you know, minors have their details

sealed or did in the 70s, at least. I know that in the Joseph Fritzel case, one of the last times we ventured over into Austria to meet a perverse dirt bag, the Austrian government went to great lengths to keep a lot of the details of what happened to Joseph's victim, you know, my name is daughter, private. Fritz, what a sick fuck, worst dad ever. For whatever jacked into those four girls, he was convicted and sentenced three years in prison. Doesn't sound like nearly enough.

You know, whatever it was, four assaults on girls, three years in prison after, you know, a pretty long lengthy, previous criminal record. Then the following year, 1976, he's convicted a Margaret's murder and sentenced to life in prison, good, but life with the positive possibility of parole in 15 years, bad. All these crimes against women, right, including at least one murder in addition to so many other arrests, and this fucker can get out in 15 years. Why? Jack tried claiming that Margaret was a sex worker during his trial, which was not true. He told that bullshit story about her reminding him of his mom, get the fuck out of here. He confessed to Beatner with the steel rods, strangling her with her bra, said nothing regarding

anything sexual, but come on. This was definitely a sexually motivated crime. Jack's time in prison transformed at the course of his life. He grew up illiterate, according to the Washington Post and some other sources, but did he? Or did he bamboozle, according to the Washington Post and some other sources, but did he? Or did he bamboozle some bleeding heart Washington Post journalist and others into thinking he did? I don't know.

In prison, he supposedly learned to read and then write and maybe that's true. He started writing poetry, short stories, plays and eventually books. Jack even founded a publishing company and produced a literary magazine in prison. One of Jack's more well-known poems, Love, Poem to Death, was written in a letter to Austrian author and journalist Sonia Ozzunstein, who met Jack while he was awaiting trial in the Salzburg jail. The poem reads,

You come to me again, you don't forget me. Until the end is the agony and the chain breaks. Still you appear strange and distant distant and are alive, death. You stand like a cool star over my distress, but then you will be near and full of flame. Come, lover, I am here. Take me, I am yours. I gotta say, I don't fucking get it.

It seems like a shitty poem to me, but maybe it's way fucking cooler sounding in German. In English, I'm like, eh, this impressed people. While in prison Jack attempted suicide at least three times, too bad he didn't, you know, try a lot harder. He wrote about suicide in poems and letters to his friends, he called it the final freedom, instead it would bring him peace. Ah, if only he would have brought him peace so much earlier than it did.

1983 Jack's best selling autobiography, pururgatory or the trip to prison, report of a guilty man makes him a celebrity in Austria. The book will soon be turned into a documentary film as well. That becomes a big hit before he was released. Purgatory even became part of some Austrian schools curriculum and some of Jack's fictional stories were performed for children on the radio. Then in 1984 his book, Terminus Prison, a collection of poems and stories about his time in prison wins a uh... in austrian literary prize described as prestigious and numerous sources

people all over austria and beyond or touched by his writing i think that he had a truly been reformed and by a mercy himself into you know literature education they thought that he should be forgiven for his terrible crimes in nineteen five campaign began to have Jack released early. Austrian writers, artists, journalists, and numerous politicians pushed to have Jack fully pardoned and released. Luckily, Austrian president Rudolf Kirkslager refused the petition, citing the court mandated

15-year minimum term. Some of Jack's more prominent supporters were writer Elfrida, Yellenek, German novelist Gunter Grass, and magazine editor Alfred Colerich. Colerich went to prison to hear Jack read his work in person. It was quoted by the New York Times, saying he was so tender. And at that moment, we decided we had to get him pardoned. Oh boy. That is a fucking great example of why you have to try and think more with your brain and less with your heart. Somebody appearing tender doesn't mean fuck all, right? Judge them more by their, you know, convictions, criminal convictions, then by how they seem to be in a tender

moment. Goon to Grass was a novelist poet, playwright, illustrator, graphic artist, sculptor, and a recipient of the 1999 Nobel Prize in Literature. Grass fought in World War II in the Vaughan SS, the combat branch of the Nazi Party's SS, so God knows what that motherfucker did as part of Hitler's war machine. He was part of one of the Panzer divisions that saw so much action in the war and often were part of civilian massacres. He was taken as a prisoner of war by the US and May of 1945 and started riding in the 1950s. He died in 2015 at the age of 87.

Elfriida Yeleneck is a playwright and novelist. She won the 2004 Nobel Prize in literature. Considered one of the most important living playwrights of the German language. She's currently 76. Yelenaq wrote about Jack. The clarity and great literary quality with which Jack Unterveger described his childhood made a great impression on me. Historian and radio talk show host Peter Hummer told the independent that the the autobiography was authentic a real cry. He signed petitions proclaiming that Jack should be released early.

Humor said, Unterveger represented the great hope of intellectuals that through the verbalization of problems, you can somehow get to grips with him. We wanted to believe him, we wanted to believe him very badly. I believe that the best way to reform people like Jack Unterveger is with one well placed bullet. But what do I know? I don't know intellectual, I guess.

While in prison towards the end of his sentence, Jack was occasionally allowed to attend literary sual rays and film festivals according to the Guardian that is so fucked up, how insulting to the families of his victims, right? Writing some touching stories does not even the scales for not just a murder, but convictions for numerous assaults on women. Surely before his release in an interview with Salzburg Inspector August Skinner, Jack said, you should also know that numerous writers are working for my early release. I have corresponded with the president. He wrote to me that I'm not yet mature enough to be released.

I've also made amends with the parents of Margaret Schaeffer, the girl I murdered in Germany. Thanks to them, I've been able to pursue my education in prison. Several sources indicated that the parents of the woman he murdered paid for Jack to go to school while in prison. He tricked them, that deeply. Man, someone did that to one of my kids. There will be fucking zero forgiveness, for sure, like fuck that in cases like this. I don't think I'll ever understand how some people believe that literally anything can be forgiven.

I get wanting to live in harmony and a peace with the entire world around you. It's a nice thought, but the world is not peaceful. You know, not all of it. Never has been, never will be. Peace and goodwill extend to those, you know, maybe extend it to those who extend you the same. I don't know. Extended to maybe some people who don't, but also people who haven't done something as heinous as kill and probably rape a child. Extended to those who have proven to have a

certain level of evil in their hearts, is that noble or foolish? If I was talking to my kids right now, I would tell them it's super foolish. So I guess that's what I believe. I just, I do believe in redemption for many, but man, elimination for others. May 23rd, 1990, Jack was released after serving the minimum term of 15 years. And again, this guy didn't just brutally murder and very likely sexually assault one young woman. He'd been convicted previously of quote, violent offenses against four girls. When he was 16, convicted for violently assaulted as sex worker. When he was 19, convicted of abducting a 16 year old girl trying to force her into sex work. When he's 23, sent to a psychiatric facility for abducting and raping dafty and solsberg with that steel rod

and almost certainly raped and murdered 25 year old marica or vat as well. It's not like the crime that sent him to prison was an aberration right it was part of a long standing pattern criminals like that they don't change they don't get rehabilitated they just don't always get caught when they get back out stats wise study wise they knew back in 1990. They just didn't want to believe it. They wanted to believe that Jack's redemption story was a beautiful example. They could be pointed to as a new idealistic path forward when it comes to criminal rehabilitation. A path where no one is beyond redemption where everyone can be saved. And that's a sweet thought, but, you know, not true. At the time of Jack's release, one individual to prison warden commented, we will never

find a prisoner so well prepared for freedom. Man he was a charming motherfucker. Dude likely regretted the shit out of that quote, making it into the papers a few years later. Jack enjoyed somewhat of a celebrity lifestyle immediately upon his release. The independent wrote, for a few months, Oontoveger reveled in his freedom and celebrity.

He became a regular on television chat shows. He read his work to enthusiastic audiences, you know, like pain audiences also, dressed in natty white suits and silk ties. He drove around town in a Ford Mustang, sporting the number plate W Jack one What are the W and one stand for I wonder maybe like jet maybe just Jack won like I won fucking won my freedom I don't know or something creepy Jack reportedly had this is a weird number 70 girlfriends

During the height of his fame according to news accounts That's what was written in the Miami Herald What about just smart lucky women of true? Jack supporters believed he was a shining example of a reformed prisoner again that dude with 70 girlfriends, such a fucking stupid number by the way, clearly an exaggeration. Obviously a great guy who respected women. The dude who used to try and pimp out teens and now is apparently fucking any and every woman in sight, you know, clearly no longer a danger to women. Well, Jack, of course, was not a change man. He was nothing more than a very talented actor.

Just a few months after he left prison, just a few months after 15 years of miraculous rehabilitation, he started to kill again. Jack's case would soon be compared to that of Jack Henry Abbott, a convicted American killer. Like Jack Abbott became a writer in prison, Norman Mailer, a famous American novelist, journalist, playwright, filmmaker, an actor who died in 2007 at the age of 84, supported him. When Abbott was released from prison in 1901, he quickly killed again. Despite a fresh murder, Mailer made the observation, culture is worth a little risk. Not that kind of risk. We can find plenty of culture and people who unlike Jack Henry Abbott's, what is up with all the Jack references in this episode by the way,

are not career criminals who stab someone to death over an argument about whether or not a diner's bathroom was just for employees or also for customers a few weeks after being released from prison, which is exactly what Jack Henry Abbott did. On September 15th, 1990, Blanca Bocova is found dead in a wooded area in Prague and the Czech Republic. She was 30 years old, married, and worked in a butcher shop. Live with her husband and two kids in the city.

On September 14th, 1990, Blanca met her friend Martin for a drink in Wenceslau Square. They got into an argument and she left just before midnight. Martin walked back over to the square a few minutes later to find her but couldn't. Longke was found the next day in Brezani Brook, a tributary of the Vultava River, a couple miles from her apartment. Longke was found naked except for gray,

knee-high stockings in her wedding band. Lane on her back in the water, her legs were spread. She was covered by tree branches. She had been strangled manually and then also with a ligature. She had also been stabbed in one of her buttocks. Her clothing and purse were missing, but her ID was later found on the shoreline of the river.

That ligature was her own nylon stockings. December 31st, 1990. 31-year-old Heidi Marie Hammer, found dead near Brighance, Austria. Little sitting in the border with Switzerland. I actually think it's a brigiance. This is tricky one for me. Heidi was a known sex worker in Brighens.

She was also the victim of several violent attacks early in her career about a decade earlier and at the time leading up to her death, but it was said to be a cautious person. Sorry. Was a cautious person the time leading up to her death because of those early attacks. She had gone missing from the corner. She was known to regularly work near the train station in a, against around 11 p.m. December 5th.

Then her body was found by hikers nearly four weeks later, December 31st, and a wooded area south of Brgenz near the village of Lustinow. The Austrian police determined that Heidi was strangled with her own pantyhose. Her wrists were bruised from her strengths. There was no sexual discharge on her body, but fibers inconsistent with her clothing were found on her body. Sexual assault, not mentioned, but did Jack jerk off near here, near her? Did he do that with many of the victims, like he did with Daphne and Salzburg? Fucking jerk and jack. I think so. I should have been his nickname, Jerk and Jack jack or maybe jack the jerk off At his later trial and inspector testified that out of 54 initial suspects jack the jerk off

Unterveger was the only one remaining for the murder of Heidi Hammer Harris found on her body were morphologically indistinguishable from jacks, but none of them had enough hair root to extract DNA Jack claimed that he was in a hotel in the nearby town of a dorm beer and around 9 p.m. didn't leave until the morning, but then a witness named Johann F. testified that he saw hiding her apartment building garage between 11 and 12 with a shorter man wearing a red scarf and a leather jacket who looked

a lot like Jack Oondre Baker. He reached out to the police in February of 1992 when he saw a picture of Jack in the news. And a second witness claimed he saw a white Mustang Mach 1 with the Vienna plate W Jack 1 near the Braggens train station around 9.30 pm. He reached out to the police in July of 1992 after seeing a picture of Jack's Mustang in the paper. And this is one of Jack the jerk offs biggest fuck ups. Kill in a victim while driving a car with a fucking vanity license plate. That's a pretty big oversight.

I don't remember coming across that one before in previous sucks, right? Making it real easy for witnesses to place you at the scene of a crime. If you're driving a car with a license plate that says something like rage dad or choke them or anything other than just random letters and numbers on it. Definitely don't want to leave the scene of a sex crime

with a license plate that says like, rapor or guilty, kill them on it. Death they don't want to leave the scene of a sex crime with a license plate that says like, Raper or Guilty, you know, Kill him on it. Jack continued Killie women in Austria of 1991, most of the victims would be dumped in the woods outside of Vienna or Grots. All of the victims were picked up in red light districts, taken to remote locations, strangled with their own clothes and dumped in forests. And every single one of these cases, Winter Rager, later proven to have been in the area when the crimes were committed. Actually, in all of the cases that he is linked to, he is proven to be, have been in the area

where the crimes were committed. The women were typically strangled with their own bras in California or pantyhose or other undergarments in Austria and the Czech Republic. Killer cut the shoulder straps and reconfigured the bra straps to create three ligatures and tie the nooses at maximum tension, so specific. According to the website, the crime wire, such constriction of the carotid arteries, which

ultimately compressed the victims neck by several inches, allowed the killer to methodically control the pace of strangulation and draw out the torture. So, we did that because he clearly loved to watch them suffer. Jack was a suspect, but for a long time, there was just no solid evidence firmly linking him to the murders. It would later be speculated that Jack was periodically impotent and would kill sex workers out of anger over not being able to get an erection. Jack the jerk off, brother in limpness with OG times up dirtbag Andre Chikotilo. What is big deal? It happened to many guys. Limbshanecock nothing to cry about, only something to, nothing to cry about.

Only something to stab or strangle about. Sorry, don't mind me. I'll be jerking the corner. I bother no one. Don't worry about it if you didn't get that, I reference. We'll not affect the rest of the story. The New York Times gave a graphic description of how Jack killed his victims in 1998, writing, Unterveger's modus operandi was one of brute violence garnished with ritual.

He would pick up a prostitute late at night, drive her to an out of town spot, a wooded road or a parking lot. Consential sex would follow, often involving your strain to some kind, handcuffs or ties, then the mood would change. Bound and terrified, the victim would be forced to leave the car and walk into the darkness. Any resistance prompted violence. Several of the victims had puncture wounds to their buttocks, caused by utu vagus teletoheels. Most had suffered blunt-force trauma to the head and face. Death when it finally came was by strangulation.

Each body was then partly buried, usually with a scattering of leaves or a fascia of branches. That asshole was kicking these women hard enough to punch holes with his heels into their asses such a fucking sadist Jack was also working as a journalist for the public broadcaster orf or Austria's equivalent to the BBC while he was doing this sick shit. Oh, R.F. played Uh, or you know had played Jack's children's stories in the late 70s during his first 10 prison and He later used their platform to talk about his early life in various interviews before he was released and then they hired this twisted fuck when he got out

When news about the murders first came out Jack covered the cases for ORF He even produced a series of radio broadcasts and newspaper essays on the victims I don't know how much he got off on that how much did he enjoy fucking with society like that making himself feel smarter than everybody a Dark God amongst men by proving that not only could he keep getting away with murder, he could even investigate and write articles about his victims. Jack even wrote an article advocating for the safety of sex workers and criticized other reporters for their sensationalism. Jack also accused readers of, quote, greedy voyeurism and wrote that the hysteria prevented investigators

from finding the real killer. He said we should be glad that there was a red light district. The dead women in the Vienna woods are another argument for why society should do more to provide security for prostitutes. How much did he grin and laugh while he wrote that shit there that he clearly didn't mean? I mean, I like it, but he didn't mean it. Jackie of an interviewed Vienna's police chief, wanting to know what information the police had

about the murders, but the police chief wouldn't reveal much. The police disclosed a number of victims, the fact that they were strangled, but not the method of strangulation. January 5, 1991, less than a week after Jack's previous murder, another body is found in the woods. 39-year-old, Brunhilda Maser. Brunhilda had worked in the red light district of Grots for over 10 years before she was

killed. She went missing on October 26, 1990. At 12.15 a.m., a taxi driver who knew Brunhilda stopped and asked why she was working late. Said she was hoping for one last customer, fuck. She found one, but man, the worst one. She had plans to take her kids out the next day on national celebration day and needed money for that. October 26 has been the date of Austria's national day since 1965 or national celebration day.

Ten years earlier, the country declared its permanent neutrality, which then became one of the fundamental values of Austrian foreign policy. Brunhilde was found dead near the village of Grotkorn near the Mure River. There's about five miles of Grotcorn near the Mure River. There's about five miles from Grotts. Some kids playing in the woods found her body faced down in the small brook partially covered by tree branches. She was naked except for her jewelry. Right? He never cared about the jewelry. Her clothing and purse, they were gone, and the animal had eaten part of her buttock. She also had a stab wound there. A forensic pathologist concluded that Brunhilder was probably strangled with the widespread strip of fabric,

but could not definitively identify her cause and death due to decomposition. With the inspectors from the Zan-Dar-Marie, Zan-Dar-Marie, defined as the law enforcement agency of the countryside. Now they're tricky word for me. By author John Leake, found out Brune Hilda was picked up

in the city, they started working with the Grots police. Investigators were initially suspicious of one of Bruehilda's regular customers who was a prominent member of Grots society known amongst prostitutes for his kinky tastes. This man reportedly enjoyed bondage and liked to drive girls to the woods and masturbate while they dance naked in front of his car. However, no girls had ever made claims of assaults against them and there was no evidence that he was connected to the murders Before moving forward, what a very specific sexual fetish Dancing naked out the woods in front of the car I'm not gonna lie a naked dancing woman illuminated by headlights. I mean that is pretty fucking sexy

Helos Fena not sure Lindsey would be real into that one though And I'm sorry I could talk her to go out the woods me for that. Also not sure I could finish to just that. I mean, maybe a fun warmup act, but at some point, I think I would start to feel pretty silly. Just be like, okay, what are we doing? Can we please just have sex? This is starting to weird me out. It feels more like a strange,

accult ritual than sex. I don't wanna summon a skin walker or something. What if you did find out though that jerking off to somebody dancing naked, lit up by headlights out in the woods, was a way to summon skinwalkers. That'd be pretty cool. However, Hornetineators on dares would probably be summoning those motherfuckers left and right

and force around the world to be infested. Get in way off track now. March 7, 1991, 35 year old El Frida Shremp. Disappears from the sidewalk next to Volks, a public park in Grotz. A sex worker saw a said he saw Elfrida at 10.15 PM that night getting into a Volkswagen Golf that looked a lot like a police cruiser. Investigators will end up speaking with about a thousand Volkswagen Golf drivers, including patrol officers. Jerkov Jack must have realized that the vanity plate wasn't such a great idea going forward. Because the previous murders, the Gratz police suspected that Alfreda or El Frida had been

killed. And then seven months later, on October 5, 1991, their suspicions approved correct, correct when the skeletal remains of El Frida's shrimp are found in the woods 14 miles south of Gratz. She was still wearing her jewelry again and a pair of red socks. The rest of her clothing and bag were missing. She was found 400 yards from the nearest road, which indicated that her killer forced her to walk. But there were also signs that she may have been at least partially dragged. The forensic pathologists could not determine the cause of death due to decomposition. There

were no signs of violence on her bones, which did leave strangulation as a, you know, strong possibility. On April 4, 1991, the Austrian authorities have their most experienced investigators focus on the murders now. Ernst Geiger, a detective, was put in charge of the task force he told a producer of the American docuDrama FBI files show that ran from 1998 to 2006.

No lead was promising. All the leads ended nowhere. We had no real suspect on May 31, 1991, inspector August Skinner called the Vienna headquarters and advised the homicide, you know, squad there to look into Jack Winterfeger as a possible suspect. But to the department, Skinner's tip was considered quote, so implausible that it belonged far down the list. What? Why would officers in Vienna think that? Like, do they forget how we killed the woman

he'd been convicted of murdering? I mean, I know it's real easy to play backseat driver with a lot of this stuff, but were they just really fucking stupid? Like, how was he not the prime suspect? Still, Skinner was at least able to put Jack under surveillance. He had GuyGern a team start looking at Jack's background and learning about his childhood.

Meanwhile, women keep disappearing and then turning up murdered. 23-year-old sex worker, Sylvia Zagler, last seen on her corner in the city of Vienna, April 8, 1991. The corner she regularly worked was just 10 minutes from Jack's apartment at that time. Four months after she disappeared on August 4, 1991, a couple walking in the woods near the village of Volskrabben, five miles from Vienna, found a body line face down covered with a thin layer of soil and some tree branches. She was identified as the missing Sylvia Zagler by her earrings and dental work again, you

know, jewelry isn't taken. Been strangled in the same manner as the other victims, at least in the manner determined when their bodies were not too decomposed to determine anything. Three weeks later, 33-year-old Regina Prem is last seen walking from a hotel to her street corner, April 28th. Most of the victims were not close with her families, didn't have a lot of people looking for them or appealing to the media for info, following their disappearances or deaths, but Regina was an exception. Regina grew up in an orphan agent worked at a menial job, according to her husband Rudolph Prem. About two years

after she met Rudolph, she realized she could make a lot more money doing sex work than random labor jobs. And so that's what she did. Rudolph and Regina eventually had a son together, got married. Rudolph quit working as a plumber to stay home and take care of their child. Regina made enough money on her own to furnish their apartment and have a playroom built for their son. Rudolph later told an Austrian magazine, she was an insanely good mother. She'd let herself be torn into pieces for the boy. That's a disturbing way to provide for her son. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so fucking terrible for her. For a while, Regina struggled with an addiction to her hip-nail sleeping pills and spent

time in a quote, nerve clinic. It seems like some kind of rehab center slash counseling facility. When she got out, she went back to sex work. She worked in the quote, free zone of the red light district near the rail yard of the West train station in Vienna away from the nightclubs. According to author John Leake, the neighborhood has long been low rent, the home of down and outers, such as art school reject, Adolf Hitler. Nice. That's a little shade there. Rudolph dropped Regina off for an appointment with a regular client at 9.45 pm on April 28th, Regina normally finished about 2am,

called Rudolph to pick her up, which she didn't call that night. So Rudolph drove to her corner. When he didn't see her, he picked up her colleague, Erica, and they drove to different dead end streets where Regina was known to meet with customers. Then they went to a hotel where Regina would sometimes meet high paying clients.

There, the porter said that they saw Sylvia that evening. He said she paid her bill and left at 11.30 p.m A sausage vendor across the street also saw Regina leave the hotel alone at 11.30 More on what happened to her later For now, let's move on to another victim May 20, 1991 a 60 year old hiker walking through Scotswoods a part of the Vienna woods near the sign of the cross meadow Notice his a smell while looking down at the forest floor he sees a body. The dead woman was naked except for a leotard around her shoulders.

She was lying face down with her legs spread and her arms extended. She was badly decomposed and animals had eaten part of her body. Leak wrote about the crime scene. Her killer had arranged her corpse to cause outrage. He had planted her face in the dirt, spread her legs, and situated her backside so that her anus and genitals would face upward, gaping toward the viewer. It was the ultimate obscene gesture and expression of mocking hatred. Stocking was tied around her neck and autopsy confirmed that she had been strangled with her pantyhose. The killer made an elaborate noose,

Wintervegger's signature, the knot had a slip component, like with the other victims that may have been used to tighten and loosen the pantyhose to prolong the victim's death. The moment again, still had her jewelry on her clothing and items from her purse was scattered in a large radius around her, but no forms of ID were found. The victim was identified as 25 year old Sabine Moetzel. Based on decomposition, Sabine had been dead for about five weeks. Sabine had been dead for about five weeks. Investigators thought that her killer picked her up, drove her directly to the woods. Sabine's husband reported her missing right

the previous month as we heard. Sabine was a bakery sales girl, occasionally worked as a quote secret prostitute, which meant she was not registered with the Office of Health, which was a legal requirement for sex workers in Vienna, not even her husband knew she was doing sex work on the side. Sabine secretly struggled with heroin addiction, and the money from her day job wasn't enough to work on the side. Sabine secretly struggled with heroin addiction

and the money from her day job wasn't enough to pay for the drugs. Around 11 p.m. on April 16, 1991, Sabine's friend Ilsa dropped her off in an intersection near the real yard of the West train station in Vienna. Ilsa passed by 10 minutes later and Sabine was already gone. May 23, 1991, a woman was looking who was looking for food for her guinea pig, guinea pig. My gosh, found the body of 25 year old, Corinne Araglu. She was placed face down and a tree branch was put across her head.

The torn off fingertip of a surgical glove was found under her body. Corinne went missing from her corner on May 7th, near where Sabine was last seen. She was found 10 miles outside Vienna, deep in the woods and a grove of spruce trees, 30 yards from the road. Her killer was thought to have walked her to her final location, not carried her.

Karin had blunt force trauma to her face, which indicated she was beaten. They killer used her leotard to make a similar ligature to what was found around Sabine's neck. The rest of Karin's clothing was gone, but her jewelry again left behind. May 24, 1991, journalist Peter Grolick reported in the career that Rudolf Prem, husband of the missing woman Regina Prem, claimed he saw the suspect in the

killings whom he referred to as the Phantom of Droughts, one of his many nicknames at this point. V&E's magazine published a report on the Phantom in their May edition with a composite sketch based on a witness who claimed to have seen a man leaving a victim's apartment. Rudolph made an appeal to the killer saying, I don't want to believe she's dead. Maybe she's been abducted and locked up somewhere. But it's Illunatic has killed Regina.

He should at least say where her body lies. My wife deserves a decent burial. How fucking sad. May 28th. Homicide Inspector from Vienna goes to Grots to see if there are parallels between the Vienna and Grots murders and concludes, nope, there are none. Why would he conclude that? The fuck was going on in the Vienna Homicide Department.

I mean, this was the first serial killer investigation for any of the Austrian law enforcement members, and I feel like a lot of their decisions reflect that. Just young women, mostly sex walkers found dead in a woods around two cities, two-hour drive-of-par country where murders almost never occur. Jewelry left its scene, no obvious sinusoidal trauma, strangle of items of their own clothing, converted into exact same type of news and not.

Yeah, I don't see a connection. Pride coincidence. Pride gosh darn, co-winkidinks Well the investigation in Austria is failing to make important connection jack makes their investigation even harder in the short run For them to solve their case by leaving the country This will soon make it easier since new body stopped showing up in his very public absence and now he will get You know, you as law enforcement evolved including members of the FBI who have a lot of experience tracking down serial killers. Winterfinger arrives in LA, June 11th.

He's hired by an Austrian magazine to, or had been hired, that's why we sent there, by an Austrian magazine, to write about crime in LA, and the differences in the attitudes towards sex work in the U.S. and Europe. For fuck's sake, killing sex workers, also paying his bills by continually writing about investigating sex work. Always sex work. Would Jack to jerk off. Jack would write two articles about crime in LA while Jack was in Los Angeles, three sex workers are beaten and strangled to death with their bras and the not used in the ligature, exact same not used in the recent murders back in

Austria. 20 year old Shannon X Lee was Jerkin Jack's first American victim. Found dead in LA June 20th 1991. She'd run away from home with the age of 16 and been doing sex work ever since. Damn. I do feel compelled to say even though I'm in favor of legalizing vice, that doesn't mean I always think it's a good fucking idea. Like sex work to support a drug habit is so sad. I just want them to be less stigmatized so they can more easily be protected and get help.

It's been less time hiding the shadows where they're inherently dangerous sex work is that much more dangerous. Shannon Diggs sex did sex work to support her crack addiction. Some of her clients were truckers who delivered the produce district of seventh avenue in downtown LA. On June 19, 1991, the day before her dead body was found, Shannon called her dad before she started work and told him she was quote trying to get her life in order Witnesses last saw Shannon near seven street and main street The next day her body was found behind the Girl Scout Center on seventh and thicket and boil heights and a vacant lot behind the building Surrounded by eucalyptus trees She'd been strangled as I mentioned with her bra which was left around her neck

She was found naked Mark's on her feet showed that she had been dragged medical technicians found DNA from the semen of seven different men in her body. The police had no suspects to compare these samples to. A few days after her murder on June 24, Jack visits the LAPD Parker Center to get permission to go on a ride-along. That's cool. Listenself is a journalist for an Austrian police journal. I guess he was curious if they would talk about Shannon. Six days after his ride along on June 30, 33 year old Irene Rodriguez is now found dead. Her body found beside a truck dock also in Boyle Heights.

A homeless man looking for firewood in the industrial zone along the LA River Founder, she was lying on her back underneath a big rig trailer. Her bra was not around her neck. Most of her clothing was gone, but there was a sock t-shirt and hypodermic bra was not around her neck. Most of her clothe was gone, but there was a sock t-shirt and hypodermic syringe found near her body. Irene had moved to LA just a few months earlier, having lived or after living in El Paso, Texas. She was living there with her common law husband and four kids. Irene visited her parents in LA just before Mother's Day. Then instead of going back to Texas, like she had told them, she stayed in California and did sex

work to buy drugs. And then just kept doing that as she spiraled further and further down into addiction. Irene's roommate last saw her at 8 p.m. on June 28th leaving their apartment to go to work. When not murdering drug addicted sex workers, Jack's having a grand old time in L.A. When he's not killing, he's he's schmoozing. Looking for a little showbiz. While in L.A., Jack had hoped to brush elbows with the rich in famous like you did back in austria

he really wanted to talk to famous writer charles balkowski uh... also tried to find shares home in malibu so we could interviewer and then uh... you know did find uh... the general area you know the tour neighborhood but it couldn't get past the security gate to where she was living uh... crazy that the security team well wouldn't let it convicted murder recently released from austrian prison who now focuses only on covering to where she was living. Crazy, that the security team wouldn't let it convicted murderer. Recently released from an Austrian prison

who now focuses only on covering sex workers as journalists after being arrested for in addition to a young woman's murder, violently assaulting at least one sex worker and trying to pressure a 16 year old into going into sex work. And he was dating two teens he'd talked into sex work. Crazy that shared security team wouldn't let that motherfucker into talk to her.

Not that he introduced himself with all that. That'll be pretty ridiculous. I want to see shelle, please. And you are Jack O'Neil. Does she know you? No, but she is most quite certainly heard of me. I'm quite famous in Austria. Famous for what?

For rehabilitating myself after murdering a young girl, beating the prostitute, making many girls' I'd date, going to prostitution, violent offenses against four other girls, writing a lot of sex work, articles in prison, focusing on sex work, events released, the other yada, get lost motherfucker, the police have already been called. I don't know what accent that was, that was maybe German, maybe Russian. He, you know what, sometimes Germans, they live close to Russians, and that's how you talk. Jack was convinced it was only a matter of time before he'd meet a big time producer, who was going to turn one of his stories into a huge movie, a fucking blockbuster.

And then he'd be a Hollywood big shot. He truly thought that Hollywood's artistically, we're going to fall in love with him, just like Austria's artist had. But nope, maybe in 1969, not in 1991. On July 3rd, 1991, Jack did meet with Austrian filmmaker and producer Robert Dornhelm to pitch his autobiography to be turned into a movie. But Jack had tell pretty quick he wasn't interested.

Dornhelm actually directed a lifetime movie about suck subject Amanda Knox in 2011. And he didn't give a shit about Jerkin Jack. The night after these two met, Jack killed again. Quintidence or rage over being casually rejected by a director whose most successful film did $700,000 in the box office revenue, or inbox office revenue.

Around the same time, Jack was getting dismissed 26 year old Sherry Long, who also went by the name Peggy Jean Booth, went to work on Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood. Sherry came from Michigan, moved to LA in hopes of some excitement. She was working in elementary education but wasn't making very much money. She eventually got involved with the quote wrong crowd, started using drugs which led to a downward slide. She was never seen alive again after July 3rd. Eight days later July 11th, there was a solar eclipse visible in L.A. The eclipse started at 10 12 a.m. And by 11 21, the moon covered 69% of the sun. That morning, some

men and their children drove up Carral Road or Carral, I think is Carral. Oh my gosh. Carral or no, excuse me, Coral Canyon Road. There we go in Malibu to watch the eclipse. There's an old fire road that branches to the right of Coralcanean Road and goes up a hill that would have been a perfect viewing spot. As they reach the top of the hill, they found Sherry's dead body. Again, I think it's Coralcanean. I can't remember if Coral is spelled with two Rs or Coral is spared. Spelled that way, excuse me.

It's a, it's co-r-r-a-l. If you're like, wait, what road is that? That might be Keral. Tyler, do you have any guesses? Do you think it's Keral or Keral? I think, I think Keral is with one R. Keral is with one R. I think so, and then Keral is to, I'll Google it.

Okay, I like, you know what, Keral. It's kind of like a western vibe a little bit in this area. Let's say it's a Keral. Wikipedia says, Keral is one R. Okay, all's a corral. Wikipedia says coral is one hour. Okay, all right, all right Wikipedia. So, all right. So it's corral. Correct.

Okay, according to Wikipedia. Thank you, glad we were able to figure that out. Like I would have bugged my weird brain. As they reached the top of the hill, they found Sherry's dead body. She was on her back 20 yards, west of the dirt road under a loral sumac shrub Her shirt was pushed up exposing her stomach and breasts a bra was nodded around her neck the pockets of her jeans turned out and she had no ID with her she was identified by her fingerprints

Her cause of death was asphyxia due to or as a consequence of ligature strangulation the LAPD handled the Boyle Heights cases, the LA County Sheriff's Department handled the Malibu case, the two agencies compared notes to the similarities in the murders. Criminalists Lynn Harald compared the knots in the three cases to see if there was a pattern she later told the producers of FBI files. In order for the knots to be made, the wearing apparel had to be dismantled in some form. It's not like the bras were just taken and tied in the square knot, but they were, but they were stripped of the elastic always on the left side. And if three people

randomly went out and strangled three people, it is extremely unlikely that all three of them would come up with this same scenario. Yeah, it's like very much a signature kind of knot. Jack left Los Angeles five days after Sherry's body was found on July 16, 91. And no more women's bodies are going to turn up with the bras turned into that not again during his absence. Before Jack left for Los Angeles, the Viennese police had received a tip the Jack was the serial killer they had been looking for. He was placed under surveillance upon his return, but still not enough evidence to charge him. By the time he returned home, psychologist Tom Mueller from Austria's Criminal Invest investigation division joined the investigation.

And Mueller later told FBI files that it was hard to investigate Jack because he had so many friends and law enforcement in the media who just couldn't understand how he could be the bad guy. And what a bunch of fucking idiots. Of course he could be the bad guy. Right? He already was the bad guy. How did these fools forget all the shit he'd already done?

To me this is like, if suddenly whoever O.J. Simpson was recently dating, turns up Stabberdeth, along with her new lover, and O.J. is in the area where these stabbing took place. And then detectives are asked to look into him and they're like, what? Why? The juice?

How could you think he'd constabbed somebody? But this is even crazier because Jack was actually convicted of killing a young woman and didn't deny that once sent to prison Only a few investigators thought Jack could possibly be the suspect Ernst Geiger and Mueller were two of them They now analyze receipts and travel records found that Jack was at each and every murder location at the appropriate times But still couldn't convince their colleagues not right away Mueller said at any any time where Jack hung out at a place excuse excuse me, anytime where Jack,

oh, it is, yeah, the quote is hangout, which is weird. Anytime where Jack hung out at any place in Prague in the western part of Austria, in the southern part of Austria, exactly in that time period, there was always a dead body somewhere in the woods. Mueller and Geiger continued looking into Jack. Geiger spoke with sex workers, he told him that Jack was a regular client, and then he always insisted that they wear handcuffs. One sex worker saw him approach her friend Heidi Hammer, one of the victims, and I should have disappeared. She remembered Jack was wearing a brown leather jacket based on this idea and the hair fragments.

Geiger got a warrant to search Jack's apartment when he wasn't home. The authorities found and took that brown leather jacket. They looked into his California travels, found receipts from a seafood restaurant in Malibu that matches the time when the victim found their disappeared. Investigators, you know, didn't find much else in the apartment. No evidence directly tied in Jack to the murders. There still wasn't enough evidence for an arrest warrant and now the investigation stalls. Geiger-Felik needed help.

So he and other Austrian investigators go to the US Embassy and meet with an FBI agent station in Vienna. She calls their criminal profiling unit in Quantico, speaks to agent Greg McCrary. McCrary had helped pioneer the science of profiling, and he agrees to look at the case to determine if one individual committed all these murders. Geiger informs the agent at the US Embassy that Unterveger traveled to California in the summer of 91. She authorized a message to be sent over to California to inform local authorities.

Over the next several days, Geiger and Mueller prepared to travel to speak to the FBI. Prosecutors in Austria, meanwhile, talk to the LA police through Interpol. Soon, Austrian investigators get an important call from LA Detective Fred Miller, who told them that California experienced a few similar murders in the summer of 91. Detectives Fred Miller and Jim Harper are working those murders. And they now know that they are eerily similar to a bunch of Austrian murders. Miller and Harper check airline, car rental and hotel records to create a timeline of Jack movements, Jack's movements in LA.

And note that Jack visited LAPD headquarters, presented press credentials signed up for right along. Jack said he was riding the German magazine story comparing European and American sex work. He asked to see where the city's sex workers hung out, officer showed him the quote, CDER areas of LA, Geiger and Mueller added this information to their case file, traveled to Quantico with information on the victims and got there in August. Meanwhile, Jack continued publishing articles and speaking out about murders on in Austria on TV. He said the police couldn't find the real killer and had singled him out only because of his past. He spoke of being punished for crimes.

He'd already served time for. He was the victim now. He claimed the police had no evidence against him, wouldn't be able to send him back to prison because he didn't do it. Jack was still popular with the public, still had support from powerful and wealthy people who believed that he was being unfairly targeted.

Meanwhile at Quantico, agent Greg McCarthy refuses to look at any information about Jack, from powerful and wealthy people who believed that he was being unfairly targeted. Meanwhile, at Quantico, Agent Greg McCarthy refuses to look at any information about Jack, so nothing will interfere with his analysis before it's over. He focuses on looking for a criminal signature, in each case. He notes that all the victims have restraint bruises on their arms and wrists or had, and that no semen was found on most of the victims. To him, this suggests that the killer struck out of impotence and was terribly insecure about his masculinity. Right, impotence makes me think about that steel rod.

He used on at least a few victims. McCurray told the FBI files that there was a clear pattern and a ritualistic behavior at each crime scene. Most of the victims were similar because they were sex workers. They were on the street when they were picked up. No one saw them, get into a car. They were transported to where they were murdered, strangle with their own clothing,

disposed of outdoors, and there was the absence of clear sexual assault. A week later, McCurry determined that there was one killer in all of these cases. The FBI and Austrian detective spent another week flushing out the profile. They felt that the killer had a good degree of mobility, was older, intelligent,

sophisticated, and an organized defender. Tom Mueller believed that this described Jack Oon Traveger. He told FBI files, I would say Jack was a very, very, was a very, very good for a typical type of organized defender. And I would say he was the typical example for a natural psychologist. He was able to understand the needs of other people. He was able to come close to other people, to listen to other people, and then to manipulate them. The murders occurred in Prague, Austria, and LA, which went against the theory that most serial killers target people in a much more geographically limited zone. Agent Macrari compared Jack's timeline to the timeline of all the murders and everything

lined up perfectly. And that was his aha moment. Then the University of Bern called L.A. Austria-Labtex completed their fiber analysis of the clothing confiscated from Jack's apartment from that leather jacket. Fibers from the lining of the jacket match those found on the body of Heidi Hammer. Right, finally, there was some strong forensic evidence linking Unterveger to one of the bodies. But investigators still held off on an arrest for the moment. Right, those fibers proved that he had been with Heidi, but Heidi was a known

sex worker. And Jack didn't try and hide the fact that he was still having sex with sex workers. The fibers didn't prove that he killed her. The FBI now decided to use ViCap, the violent criminal apprehension program, a computer database of solves and unsolved homicides, a programmer inputted the European and Los Angeles cases, McCrory ordered a search with 15 cross criteria to show the victims or if the crimes were related. 48 hours later, they had the results. The 11 murders were definitely statistically linked. Austrian authorities felt like they had the evidence they needed in return to Vienna.

On October 8, 1991, at 11.45 pm, Rudolph Prem, the husband of Regina, received a crank call. Ever since he spoke with the courier in May, he had been receiving occasional anonymous phone calls. He recognized the voice in the October 8th call. He thought it sounded like a man who had also called him back into lie and said, at the Vienna Woods Lake, go left and follow the path that steeply ascends and forks. A fewer line there. When the figure eight at the zenith stands, then I'll tell you where your wife lies. This time, the caller said, I am an executioner. On Tobander Hill lies Gurdah. God commanded me to do it. Tonight I have completed my work. To 11,

I have carried out the just punishment. 5 a.m. in the next morning, the next morning, same hand calls back and says they lie in the place of atonement facing downward toward Hades. Because otherwise, it would have been an outrage. Is he doing this to taunt Rudolph or to make authorities think that a different killer killed Regina, make them question their investigation? Also, fucking weird translation. It's not like a bunch of gibberish. Two weeks later on October 22, 1991, officers of the criminal investigation bureau in Vienna,

officially questioned Jack about the Austrian murders. They hoped he would confess. Jack admits to consorting with prostitutes for writing and for sex, but denies knowing the victims. He has weak alibis, but investigators release him anyway for lack of evidence. Uh, Jack doesn't let me in the focus of a serial killer task force, uh, getting the way of him living his life at this point on November 16th 1991. The 41 year old meets his soon to be girlfriend 17 year old Bianca, Mirac.

Bianca was the daughter of an apartment building caretaker, mom named her after Mick Jagger's first wife. She liked to go to the take five, the in club at that time amongst Viet as wealthy. And on November 16th Bianca saw an older man sitting a few stools down from her looking at her. After making eye contact with him, watched him speak to another woman, he motioned for her to come over to him.

She does introduce himself as Jack Untra Vega. She had seen his name before. They talked for a while that night. Bianca didn't want to go back to Jack's place, told him she was meeting someone at the club next door. Jack said he would walk her over to the entrance and then he did and waited outside the club. When Bianca walked back a few minutes later, Jack confronted her, confronted her about lying to him, but also gave her his number and left.

And apparently Bianca was fascinated by this. She later said she had no knowledge of the murder that he had committed 1974 when she was only one year old. But she did recall that one of her teachers told her about a bunch of writers and artists who had advocated for Jack's release after he published his autobiography. Bianca knew her mom wouldn't approve of her being in contact with Jack, but Bianca was also quote tired of her mom nagging her for staying out late and going to clubs and didn't feel like she needed her mom's approval. Bianca called Jack two weeks later on November 29th, they met at the public library near

his apartment, then went to the cafe, talked for a little bit, then Jack showed her his apartment, told her he didn't need such a big place that he was thinking about rent in his spare bedroom. But, you know, Bianca, you know, could have it if she wanted it. And she moves in a few days after that, Bianca is sleeping in Jack's bed by December 1st. She's not paying rent soon after that. She's not having a lot of fun with jerk and Jack. John leak wrote quickly she discovered that living with the well known author wasn't as she had imagined. Jack didn't take her out with smart people, but cloistered her at home,

controlling her life more than her mother ever had. The days followed a strict routine. Up at six, eat breakfast, drive to school with Jack, get picked up and brought home by Jack. No hanging out with friends after school. Her friends, he explained, have nothing in their heads. And then one day, Jack told Bianca, he was experiencing a low and his income and just, you know, casually suggested that she bring in some extra money by working for an escort service. So back to his old tricks, still trying to pimp women out.

Always sex work with this dude. Bianca met with a man to talk about the job, learn that she would have to have sex with clients. Yeah, what the fuck did she think she's gonna have to do? She was furious, told Jack he was trying to make her work for a pimp. So Jack found her a job as a bar maid at a night club on the fringe of the red light district. Maybe thinking he could ease her

in the sex work in a different way. Just before Christmas, Jack proposes to Bianca. Meanwhile, he's also seen at least one other girl, a girl named Elizabeth, an assistant at Success magazine who he'd met at a party. On the afternoon of December 24th, after announcing his engagement to Bianca's family, he leaves to visit his other girlfriend for an hour or so and bang it out. Fucking this guy never at dull moment with Jerkin Jack. Month and a half later, February 10th, 1992, Detective Geiger now submits a report to the Vienna DA

listing the grounds for suspecting Jack Unterveger of seven murders in Vienna, Gratz and Braggins. The DA concludes that there is still not enough evidence for his arrest. After the DA makes his decision, the Interior Ministry creates a special commission, though, to further investigate Jack. Investigators from Vienna, Lower Austria, Gratz,

and for Albrook, agree to share info. Griger was appointed as head of the commission and the first meeting is scheduled for February 14th. The night before that meeting on February 13th, the Gratz police finally fucking issue an arrest warrant for Jack. The grounds for the warrant were Jack's false alibi for the night of March 7th 1991, the night, uh, El Free to Shrimp went missing. A teletype sent to Vienna stating that the arrest will take place the next morning.

When the Gratz inspector arrives in Vienna, he learns that the surveillance team, though, has lost Jack in traffic. But not worried, they didn't think he'd go far. While they wait for him to turn up, that special commission holds their first meeting. And then Jack does not come back that evening. And they find out why investigators learned that the Friday evening distribution of one of the local papers had already gone out with the front page headline being murder series and arrest warrant for Jack Oon Travega. Some fuckhead journalists have been given the info on the condition that they did not run the story until the Saturday edition and then just runs it early. What an asshole,

just putting the story before anyone's safety. Jack still didn't come back on February 15th so now investigators search his apartment, they find a glass case in his living room that contains three pairs of handcuffs, in his closet they find mace, a switchblade, and a 12 gauge shotgun, which he was not allowed to have as a convicted felon jacket fled to switch the length of his girlfriend bianca then traveled to paris new york and my army according to the washington post they fucking went to my army basically because bianca love to show my army vice so random you would think he would take his decision like it regarding where to hide from investigators who are looking at him as a serial

killer a bit more seriously. Nope, he's his and my amy because that's where his teen girlfriends favorite show was set. While in the run Jack called Austrian media outlets to protest his innocence, he told an Austrian paper before he went into hiding, I'm not the woman killer they're looking for, I didn't kill those girls, I'd have to be dumb. While in Paris Jack calls some Austrian TV shows to say that him fleeing the country is not an admission of guilt. He promises to come back to Austria and answer any questions if his arrest warrant is withdrawn. In Vienna, investigators talk to Jack's friends.

They say he went on a holiday with Bianca at America. Detective Geiger speaks with Bianca's mother. She says that she has been sending wire transfers to the couple. They were in New York, traveling to Florida. Geiger instructed her to let him know if Bianca called again. Days later, Bianca calls her mom for Miami, asking for more money and her mom informs the Austrian police. I'm sure she was worried about this motherfucker killing her daughter. Actually, I'm not sure of that, but I hope she was. February 27, 1992, Jack Unterveger is arrested by fucking sunny crocket and Rico Tubbs, motherfucker.

Hell yeah Miami Vice, save in the day. Woo! That was a bit of the Miami Vice theme song, if you're confused. Now unfortunately Don Johnson and Philip Michael Thomas do not arrest your conjack. Quick, super random, my Philip Michael Thomas tribute though. Did you know that years after my Ami Vice was canceled in 1994, Thomas signed a agreement with Florida based psychic readers network to become the spokesman for what was called the Philip Michael Thomas International Psychic Network. He appeared in a TV ads, Informershals basically, claimed to have met the planet's premier psychics through his world

travels. His dress like he was on Miami Vice. And then he was replaced by, can you guess? Fucking Miss Cleo. Tubbs was the original Miss Cleo. He then sued the owners for breach of contract in one over $2 million. If you already knew that, I am surprised and impressed. Back to Jack in reality, he is arrested by US Marshals Miami. Austrian police were monitoring Jack's credit card, notified federal agents Miami. Jack and Bianca got there on Sunday, February 23rd, on the 26th, five US Marshals set up surveillance on a house where they heard he was staying. Around noon the next next day Jack walked out of the house and it tanked top and bathing

suit. He appeared casual, but he kept checking behind him and then he started to run. Jack was zippin down Collins Avenue in Miami Beach when he was arrested by five federal agents and he was booked on a fugitive warrant. Jack was also charged with immigration fraud for saying he was a tourist without a criminal record when he entered the US. Bianca was released after a bit of questioning. She told reporters that it was her idea to flee and that she chose Miami because, quote, and I'm not making this up. I liked Don Johnson.

Bianca later said in an interview after Jack was arrested, he couldn't have killed them. They weren't his type. Jack has such beautifully cared-for hands. He could be very sweet with those hands. I can't imagine that he could have used those hands to kill someone. He fucking was already in prison for using those hands to kill someone. This episode has so many people doing so much dumb shit. What are you fucking talking about? I would normally say more, but you know, she was only 17. Bianca would later sell her story for a five day serialization

called Bianca's exclusive love story, the girl in the murder suspect. So that's cool. I'm glad she was financially rewarded for terrible choices. On March 4th, 1992, Jack Waves, his extradition hearing, he tells US magistrate William turnoff, Bill turnoff. That guy never got teased growing up. Mr. turnoff tells Bill that he has evidence showing he's innocent. Jack said that three weeks earlier, a sex worker told the police, she saw him in a wooded area where another sex worker was found dead. But Jack claimed, I have 20 people who can testify that on that same night,

I gave a lecture on my book. Hey, Jack, you're wanted for many, many murders. Not sure proven, you may be one of the scene of one of those is going to get job done. March 12, 1992, LAPD homicide investigator flies to Florida to ask Jack about the deaths that occurred during his time in LA. Detective Fred Miller was quoted by the LA Times as saying, we would like to question him concerning some cases. Our primary interest now is with one case, a murder, but there are other cases. In February, Jack was named the chief suspect in seven new murders and another murder in 1973

he was never charged for. The LAPD got a warrant for tissue samples. A technician in Miami obtained blood hair samples and saliva swaps from Jack, which were sent to LA for analysis. Jack's DNA perfectly matched the semen, found in Shannon X Lee's body, but she also had semen from six other men in her body,

and there was no sexual discharge found with other LA victims. Too bad they couldn't have tested for a metal rod insertion. Jack didn't want to go to Austria because he would be tried for all 11 murders, but LA detectives told him that if he stayed, they were certain he was going to be convicted in California and sentenced to death, and there would be no artistic support for a serial killer here in the States. Jack agreed to extradition where he would be tried for all the murders he committed.

There would be no possibility of a death penalty though. Austrian law allows citizens to be tried for crimes committed anywhere in the world, which I found interesting. The following month, more remains are found. April 19th, 1992, a retired police officer and his wife go for an afternoon walk on the Herman schoogell, the highest hill in the Vienna woods. They spotted what they first thought was a dead branch, landing against a tree trunk. The officer kicked it, and when he did, he saw a piece of fabric attached to it.

When it looks closer, he sees that it's not a branch. It's a human leg. It's a femur and an nylon stalking. Why am I not surprised that a former member of Austrian law enforcement confused a fucking tree branch with a human bone? They have not come across as master investigators in this episode. They have a hell of a time connecting know, time connecting obvious similarities and homicide cases and also have a hard time telling the difference between wood and human remains apparently. I don't know. Maybe if I saw this bone, I'd be like, you know what? I get it now. Or maybe it would obviously look like a fucking bone.

Inside some fabric. I don't know. I just have not been blown away by Vienna's law enforcement efforts in particular. I just have not been blown away by Vienna's law enforcement efforts in particular. The remains of victim Regina Prem had finally been found. Most of them, her bones were strewn over a large area by animals. Investigators couldn't find her skull at first. They thought it was a potato for a few weeks and didn't even touch it. Her clothing was missing except for nylon stocking, however all her jewelry and a denture were found and that was enough to lead to her identification. I made up the potato nonsense by the way. They really could never find her school.

May 28th 1992, Jack is extradited to Austria where he has charged with 11 murders, seven in Austria, one in Prague, and three in LA. At the time of his extradition, the police began looking for the car Jack drove at the time of Blanca, Bokovas murder. They find Jack's BMW and junkyard and recover some hairs, seven to be exact. These hair fragments are sent to the University of Bern for analysis, lab text extract DNA sequence from the hair root and compared to the victims and the DNA matches Blanca Bokovas. This is a huge breakthrough, but it still only proves Blanca was in the car when Jack owned it, not that he killed her. Jack's lawyer, Yon's Jürgen Leehofer. Yon's Jürgen Leehofer. I think the most fucking German name I've ever heard my life tells him as reported by

the Washington Post, if they can conduct the DNA tests, then the devil's going to catch you. Clearly, his lawyer thought he did it. Also, that's a weird way to say something. Then the devil's going to catch you. Uh, clearly his lawyer thought he did it. Also, that's a weird way to say something. Then the devil's going to catch you. Osterin seemed like a weird bunch. Uh, Jack replied, I'm not guilty. On August 30th, 1993, Jack is officially indicted for 11 murder, seven in Austria, one of the Czech Republic and three in Los Angeles. Uh, excuse me, state prosecutor, Hamo Lamboaar admits that there were no witnesses, but says that Austrian authorities are convinced, convinced of Jack Unterveger's guilt according to the LA Times.

He notes an amazing similarity of the way the murders were committed in Jack's proximity to all of the crimes. Another one of Jack's lawyers, George Zanger, said the indictment is obviously based on prejudicial reporting by the media. There are no new facts. While the waiting trial Jack tells the press that he has been framed. And incredibly, this motherfucker still has popular support from the Austrian public. Jack's murder trial starts in Gratz, April 20th, 1994. It's expected to take two months and it will in June. After two months of grizzly testimony, Jack still

has massive public support. New York Times wrote, how did he get away with it for so long? Largely because he was a brilliant manipulator of people. An emotional chameleon, Oon de Rager sensed what a person needed to find in him and simulated it instantly. So powerful was this ability that while in prison, he may even have persuaded the parents of his first victim to finance his education.

Women were especially susceptible to his game and pitiful charm, and he maintained dozens of relationships simultaneously. When he was finally being tried for his crimes, 20 women sat together in the courthouses public galleries weeping, mistresses, lovers, and admirers, all convinced of Unterveger's innocence. What the fuck? Guys like this always make me think if only he would have applied his incredible talent in the right direction. Lord knows what good jerk and jack could have accomplished. The prosecution only had two primary pieces of forensic evidence, fibers from the lining of the brown leather jacket that matched those found on the body of Heidi Hammer and several hairs of another victim, Blanca Bokovah, found in Jack's car. That

was it. And what are the women hidey had been with several other men, sexually shortly before she died. So this, yeah, not the strongest evidence. There was also Jack Seaman found in Shannon Exley's dead body, but she had Seaman from six other men in her body as well. Shannon had been killed in the exact same signature way, though, as the other victims.

DNA analyst, Richard Dernhofer, at least one dick in the sack, said it was highly probable that Jack murdered all 11 sex workers based on how all the victims were strangled with their own clothing by someone tying the same signature knot. That knot tied all these murders together, pun kind of intended, but honestly pretty hard to avoid, more than anything else. In addition to that little bit of forensic evidence, the prosecution also thankfully had a variety of witnesses. One eyewitness testified that they saw Jack's white Mustang with the license plate W.

Jack won near Heidi Hammer's street on the night of her murder. This hurt the defense's claim that Jack was not near her home at that time. Fucking vanity plate. Never drive or away from the scene of a crime you've committed with a vanity plate. Or please do. Actually, make it easier for people to catch you. Other women testified about Jackson Violin behavior, one sex worker testified that she was handcuffed and told to pretend she was afraid. She said, I didn't have to pretend.

I was afraid because she was fucking terrified. Jack also never seemed to have a solid alibi for any of the murders. Next to the knot combined with a bit of forensic evidence, this really hurt him. He was in the area of all the murders when they occurred, murders spread out geographically, and he didn't actually have solid alibis for any of them. His lawyer George Zenger tried to discount this, telling the court, It's always a coincidence if one has an alibi. Such an intelligent man would certainly have taken care to have one if he needed it.

That's a weird attempt at flipping the script. What? No, he doesn't have an alibi because he is innocent. Smart guilty people are the ones to make sure to be somewhere else when their crimes are committed. Jack Smart, if he would have killed these women, he would have been somewhere else when he killed them. He would have killed them and also been at a different place at the same time. Only people who have good allies kill other people. What was that coming in? Austrian psychiatrist Dr. Reinhard Haller diagnosed Jack with narcissistic personality disorder

on June 20th, 1994 presented his findings to the court. I have to spend in two days interviewing Jack. He described him as profoundly to dis, excuse me, profoundly sadistic. Finally someone, you know, he doesn't seem to kill, seems to have met the real Jack, not just sadistic, profoundly sadistic and Nimrod agrees. FBI agent Greg McCrary testified all 11 murders were committed by the same person. Greg testified that the killer always chose other sex workers or people who did sex work for favors said that the killer was criminally sophisticated, older, at least in his late 30s, not panicky or disorganized, had interage, but could control it. The victims had bruises on their wrists like they were restrained with handcuffs.

McCrary believed that Udgerveger asked sex workers to wear them to fulfill a sexual fantasy, but he really wanted to wear them to control them. Macquarie also noted that the victims followed Jack's travels and the LA murders were extremely similar to the Austrian murders. Uttarrager tied his knots and ligatures in the exact same highly specific atypical way. The defense argued that the LA victims were strangled with their bras while the European victims were strangled with pantyhose. How do you explain that? Well, McCrary countered that European sex workers don't wear bras. Boom! Mike drop! Fuck yeah, bro! I picture him

blushing after saying that, right? In my experience, sex workers in Europe, they never wear bras like ever. They're sexy ass or wreck nipples are always right there. Waiting to be squeezed and sucked on. Poking against their tank tops like they're about to just pop through and what have you in my experience. I mean from what I've heard from other guys who have experienced a lot of European sex workers, not from my own personal experience. That's not I meant I have a wife. I have a family. Please don't tell my family.

Is my testimony going to be published back in the US? I meant to ask that earlier. The prosecution summed up its argument against Jack June 27th, 1994. According to an article in the Guardian State Prosecutor Carl Gas, or told the jury in his closing remarks, if Unterveger is acquitted, he will walk out of the court of free man. Seriously, the Guardian, that's the quote you chose to pick from the prosecution's closing arguments. Carl didn't say anything smarter than that. If you find him not guilty, just

so you know how court works, he will walk out of this court of free man since he was not convicted of crimes and stuff. So you know, keep that in mind when you make your decision, if you acquitted him, if he's not guilty, he gets to be a free. Well, thank you, Captain Obvious. So here's to you, what the fuck was going on with law enforcement and lawyers

and just the judicial system in general back in Austria the 90s? So many of them have consistently come across like total idiots and stuff. So maybe that's how Jack was able to manipulate so many people in Austria, right? Maybe for whatever reason the entire nation of Austria and the early 90s was literally by far the dumbest place on earth and they were all just blown away. The Jack could do more than make painfully obvious statements. Maybe he was only of average intelligence, but to the Austrian public, he was a fucking genius, like Luke Wilson in idiocracy. Jack would speak in his defense.

He would also say, he's in really weird shit. He said, I was a greedy, ravenous individual, hungry for life, and determined to rise in life from the bottom. It wasn't me, I'm innocent. I had a hunger for life, a drive to conquer women. What? There must be a translation problem. We're dealing with here with all these Austrian characters. And his defense, while on trial for multiple murders, he says, I was a greedy, ravenous individual, had a drive to conquer women.

Another source quotes Jack is saying, I was a rat, a primitive criminal who grunted rather than talked and invertor it, liar. The prosecutor is right. I consumed women rather than love them. But I'm counting on my acquittal because I'm not the culprit. Your decision will affect not only me, but the real murderer because he's laughing up his sleeve. Okay. I see now that he was admitting to being a dirtbag with him, but not being a killer. Okay, so maybe there's not a total translation problem.

Laughing up his sleeve. I know that's the same, but I don't think I've ever heard about somebody actually saying it before now. So weird one to me. Jack also added, I implore you, even if you are disgusted by Jack Oonterveger's way of life, to think whether that's enough to say he doesn't deserve to live in freedom. He said about the hair found in the car. I can't deal with this scientifically, not at all.

I just don't get this DNA stuff. My brain developed gene bumps when I was studying. What the fuck is happening? My brain developed gene bumps? Now I'm back to thinking there has to be a translation problem. It feels like whoever was hired to translate German into English didn't actually speak German very well. And we're just guessing about what Jack said at the time.

Yet right here, Jack said, women are marvelous fragals. Harry is the day is long. Pain is but a number and death is for the hot dogs. If you let me go home, I can build a beautiful cast, a lot of Legos. And isn't that the quiet cats me out. More ice cream and less strangling. Can we all agree that counter tops and mittens are never part of the problem? Okay. On the afternoon of June 28, 1994, someone planted a bomb in the courthouse, thankfully no one was injured. It never detonated. And final arguments were actually not delayed. Just some crazy fan probably of Jerk and Jack. So convinced

of his innocence that they're willing to bomb the courthouse to try and somehow help him. June 28th 1994, Jack Unterveger is found guilty of nine of the 11 murders he was charged with and sends to life in prison without the possibility of parole this time. Two jurors actually did vote to a quitch hack. Fucking two out of eight of all the charges against him. But the other six only chose to acquit him in two cases. Under Austrian law, the jury does not thankfully have to make a unanimous decision in this instance, only a majority one. Jack was convicted of all the murders except for El Frida, Shremph and Regina Prem because their bodies were too decomposed to establish

a definite cause of death. Jack was sentenced to life in prison, again, without the possibility parole. Very next day, June 29th, Jack is released, though, and let free in less than 24 hours. He had convinced the Austrian president, Thomas Klesel, to pardon him, and started dating and pimping out two of Thomas' granddaughters. God damn he was good at talking people into making them make terrible decisions. No, unless in 24 hours, he was non-dead in the cell. He'd hang himself with a rope made out of shoelaces and a cord from his tracksuit pants. And that shit bag used the exact same signature knot on himself that he had used to kill his many victims. Right? He was 43 years old during a routine check at 3am, a guard in scene Jack lying on his cot, totally fine. Then when the guard came back around 40 minutes later, Jack was

dead. On the day he was found guilty, Jack had told his lawyer he was going to end his life. In an interview, Jack's attorney Hans Jürgen Leehoeffer told the Washington Post, the jury said he was guilty, and I believe it was a fair trial. Maybe on the night he killed himself, he saw his victims coming at him. But now I've said too much. Clearly, his attorney knew he killed these women. Leehoeffer added, if Unterveger was guilty, he was a sick man. Do you understand? To kill without a reason must be sick. Many medical experts talk to him and they all said he was not insane, but they also said he wouldn't commit suicide. His victims were not

people he knew, not girlfriends or acquaintances. He killed strangers, women he'd known for only five minutes, prostitutes. If he killed him, I mean, again, where's going on in here in this case? Thank you for that spell by an analysis of who Jack was, Lee Hofer. What was happening in the last year in the 90s? What do so many of these people come across as just being painfully dumb in quotes? If Jack really killed the women that six Jerry's think? Let me say you something. Are you sitting on said place? I blow minds. Jack killed more women after killed one woman many time ago. Then what? He's sick. I say it. He's sick. That's why K, uh, the evening before Jack's death,

he announced his intention to appeal clearly. He didn't like his chances, but he announced that. Or maybe he did that for a different reason right because because he said that under austria law his guilty verdict was now not legally binding because the jury's verdict was not reviewed or confirmed by the court before he died one last fuck you to austria maybe last fuck you to the families of his victims technically legally jack will now forever not be guilty of their murders. And that is all for today's Time Suck timeline. Good job, soldier. You've made it back.

Barely. Before I share a recap and some final thoughts, somebody else wants to do that first. Sunny Hollister here again meets Exx. Cheesecake Factory store detective. If any of you have a time machine, hit me up. I'd like to take it to Vienna, May 23rd, 1990. The day of Jack's release from his first prison stretch for murder. To keep him from killing again, it would have been simple. I go undercover as an Austrian literary agent and manager. Study a little duo-lingo

to learn the language. Maybe dress up like Wilphardle's Mugato from Zuland. Drive a Ferrari with a vanity plate that says killer. I'm an eccentric artistic type and love with jerk and jack. He'll lead it up like it was our original classic bass cheesecake. I act like it's my idea to have some fun with the ladies. Talk about tying them up. Seem we can get away with. How do we get jacks? Literary juices flowing. And then bang bang chicken and shrimp still run to the head when he tries something funny. Back to prison he goes. Simple as that. Sometimes you have to trail these guys, give them a little push in the direction

you know they're headed in anyway for the good of the general public. When they have his kind of record, you know where they're going. So why wait for them to get there? It's like this time with the cheesecake factory when I saw a guy who would stolen silverware from us not once, not twice, but thrice. Walk back in. Did I remind him he was

blacklisted and have him tossed no, always better to make a bust. I had Danielle our best server, real doll, give him some silverware, made out of silver. Nice flatware we don't normally use, stuff I marked before she put on his table. Put some cheddar on that mouse trap and serve it to the rat. And then bang, bang, chicken and shrimp. He hadn't pocketed that calorie, but two seconds before I had the cuffs surround his wrists and his face and some shepherd's pie. Until next time. You keep listing the true crime, and I'll keep stopping it.

Stay sunny everyone. Fucking sunny holester. What a law enforcement legend. Fucking sunny Hollister. What a law enforcement legend. Now for my thoughts. Johann Uttarvega, aka Jack, was an Austrian serial killer who lived from 1950 to 1994, like many serial killers he had a troubled childhood. His father abandoned him before he was even born. Mom was arrested for fraud when he was a toddler.

Jack was sent to live with an abusive grandfather and never lived with his mom again because of his abandonment issues, being abandoned by a single mom who probably was a sex worker, combined with who knows how much time spent exposed to other sex workers. He developed a hatred for sex workers. What I wonder in situations like this is why didn't he develop a hatred for dads who abandoned their kids? Why didn't he develop a hatred for pieces of shit, grandfathers, who constantly talk shit about their daughters and abuse their grandkids? Speaking of grandpa, is he mostly responsible for who Jack became? Seems like he had the most influence over Jack during his developing years. If he would have been kinder, more respectful of women in general, would have Jack have

turned out the same. I doubt it. Raising your daughter's child doesn't automatically make you a hero, might just make you an asshole who kind of sorted the right thing, where the grand kid is concerned. Jack might have been much better off if his grandpa had let him go to an orphanage or somewhere else. And so much anger reserved, especially for mommy.

So many mommy issues with so many of these serial killers. 1974, Jack definitely killed an 18 year old German girl, Margaret Schaefer. He was convicted of a murder sentence to life in prison in 1976. She was probably, you know, the the second woman at least that he killed. Sure, seems like he killed 25 year old Marieca Horvath in 1973. Even if Margaret was his first victim, he raped at least one woman before her murder, Daphne and Salzburg, assaulted a half a dozen or so other women. He committed many

crimes against women before he went to prison in 1976. Sends to life with the possibility of parole after 15 years. While in prison, Jerkin Jack becomes a prolific writer, his works circle amongst Austria's literary elite, Jack's writings inspire intellectuals. You know, there's seen as an example that even a cruel killer can be reformed to the proper education by being given time to reflect and the proper outlet for the talent. His autobiography became the best seller in Austria, was even taught in some Austrian schools, becomes a documentary film that does well. Many high profile intellectuals pushed for Jack's early release from prison, but the president refuses to allow it. However, in 1990, Jack is released after serving the bare minimum 15 years. He becomes a minor celebrity upon release, works as a

playwright and journalist, but he was not rehabilitated as his supporters believed. Just a few months after his release, he returns to murder so much murder. In 1990 and 1991, he kills eight women in Austria and the Czech Republic. In Brugans, Gratz and Prague, he primarily targeted sex workers in the city's red light districts. Some of the women were found days later, some of them months later, found naked and wooded areas outside the cities. Most disturbingly, they'd been strangled mainly with their own pantyhose. Some of them beaten before they died with puncture wounds in their bodies. And Jack got paid as a journalist to cover these same fucking crimes. Then when Jack traveled to Los Angeles for a journalism assignment, three more sex workers are murdered in the same manner,

strangled with the bras now. Then Jack returns to Austria, where soon Austrian authorities contact the FBI and the murders in LA in Europe are connected. Investigators work together to establish a timeline that puts Jack at each of the murder locations. After an international police chase, Jack is arrested in Miami, Florida, right?

To 1992 Miami Vice. Go as a trial in June of 1994, Florida, right? 1992 Miami Vice. Goes a trial in June of 1994 was convicted of nine of the 11 murders, uh, new murders for him. And then less than 24 hours later, it's found dead in his cell, right? He'd, he'd, uh, hanged himself. He tied the news around his neck with the same signature not he had used to kill his victims. Those last 11 victims, their deaths were so entirely avoidable. Sometimes a tiger really does not change its stripes, right? Everything I have ever listened to, or read when it comes to men who commit violent sexual crimes against women,

when they have committed crime after crime for years, when they beaten women, raped women, killed women, pressured women to sex work over and over, they don't fucking change. Not everyone deserves a second chance. And Jack's release after serving his 15 years in prison wasn't even his second chance. Between 1966 and 1976, he was convicted of committing over 20 crimes, many of them violent crimes against women. A guy like that, two choices and two choices only in my mind, locked them away forever with zero chance of them ever walking free again or death.

Anything else I think is irresponsible. Not all crimes deserve forgiveness. Let's head to today's takeaways. Number one, Jack Unterveger hated sex workers. Possibly because his mother who was described as a sex worker in some sources that banded him as a child. Jack did say that he saw his mother's face reflected in his first victim, maybe his first victim, and felt rage as he killed her. Number two, Jack O'Neill Jr. grew up illiterate, probably, but after he was sentenced to life in prison in 1976, he learned to read and write. Jack used writing to now express his dark thoughts, writing letters about suicide and love poems to death, as well as an autobiography describing his troubled childhood. He also wrote plays in children's stories that circulated throughout Austria.

Austria's literary circles were fascinated by Jack's writings. He claimed that he had changed as a person in prison. It was now totally reformed. Many writers and intellectuals believed him and pushed for his early release. They convinced politicians to do the same. And although they were unsuccessful regarding getting him a pardon, he was released in 1990, thanks to these efforts after serving the bare minimum of 15 years and becomes a celebrity. And although they were unsuccessful regarding getting him a pardon, he was released in 1990, thanks to these efforts after serving the bare minimum of 15 years and becomes a celebrity. Also becomes a journalist paid to cover the murders he is committing. Number three, Jack Unterveger was Austria's first modern serial killer.

He killed his victims by strangling them with their own clothing. Either with their stockings, pantyhose or bras, he fashioned a tight, newose-like knot that could be tightened and loosened, which allowed him to torture his victims until they died. He often left the ligature around his victim's neck, likely to taunt investigators, and he also posed his victim's naked bodies in wooded locations. Number four, unlike many serial killers, Jack did not stick to one general area. He didn't just cross state lines, he crossed, killed women across the ocean and Los Angeles. Jack killed three sex workers while he was on a

journalism assignment in the States. These victims were strangled in the same manner as the Austrian and Czech victims. Luckily because of Austrian laws, Jack was able to be prosecuted and convicted for all the murders he committed, not just the ones inside Austrian borders. Number five, new info, while he was in Los Angeles,

Jack stayed at the infamous Cecil hotel. I just talked about this on scared to death. Episode 197, you see him too. Jack likely chose the Cecil because it was popular with sex workers and because the Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez, also stayed there during his reign of terror before he was caught after committing over a dozen murders between June of 1974 and August of 1985. We covered the Night Stalker in bonus episode 19 back in 2018. Jack interviewed sex workers in the city, cannabis the neighborhood around the Cecil

and Biden sex workers back to his hotel room. Arthur John Leake wrote about the Cecil saying, the hotel embodied a motif that ran through all Jack's magazine articles about LA. The existence of extreme destitution in the heart of a city known for its wealth. The Cecil was a popular location for sex workers who worked in the five block radius on six street between St. Pedro and Central. According to author and Los Angeles true crime tour guide Kim Cooper statements

in the vanishing at the Cecil hotel docu series. The Cecil is a place where serial killers let their hair down. Richard, another Richard, second dick. Shave, or Shav, I don't know, it's an unusual spelling. Husband of Kim Cooper and Hollywood tour guide said, we believe Jack was living in the Cecil in homage to Ramirez. Cecil Hotel has been called America's Hotel Death. First open in 1924, entrepreneur William Banks, Hanner poured around a million dollars,

over 13 million in today's dollars, and to build an luxurious new hotel in LA with an opulent marble lobby, stained glass windows, and alabaster statues. It was designed as a 14 floor, 700 room hotel on Main Street between six and seven streets. After the Great Depression, the hotel changed. The Cecil now offered

low-cost rooms for short and long-term guests, 10 estate and single rooms and shared bathrooms. The cost combined with the location near Skid Row led to the Cecil being a popular location for sex workers, people who didn't have much money and criminals. It was a place of despair at least four suicides occurred there between 1931 and 1938. No one knows what the full total is now. At least eight guests have fallen to their deaths from windows while at the Cecil. Some of them suicides, some of them accidental,

so hopefully, supposedly, according to PBS affiliate KCET, several long-term residents started calling the Cecil the suicide in the 1960s. In 1944, a 19 year old mother named Dorothy Jean Purcell had her baby in a bathroom with the Cecil, then through the baby at a window. She claims she didn't know she was pregnant and thought her child was still born, but a

corner found that the baby was alive and she was found not guilty by reason of insanity. The Black Dahlia, or Elizabeth Short reportedly visited the Cecil hotel in the days before her murder, going to the lobby bar. In 2007, the property was sold to Fred Cordova. Cordova wanted to revamp the hotel and stay on main open in 2011. Stay on main was a hostel within the hotel. The Cecil was divided for different purposes. Flores two and three dedicated to long term low low income tenants.

Flores four, five and six dedicated to stay on main. And the rest of the floors made up the Cecil hotel. Stay on main had a separate entrance, but still shared elevators with the rest of the building. 21 year old Elisa Lam checked into the hotel part of the building January 26, 2013. We talked about that way back in episode 29. On January 31, she was reported missing when her parents didn't hear from her and she never checked out of the hotel. The police lifted her personal items, reviewed security footage. The hotel didn't have security cameras on every floor, including the floor at least it was staying on, but the police found video of Alisa in the elevator.

This now famous video shows Alisa behaving very strangely. She clicked almost all the buttons on the panel, acts like she was hiding or talking with people that either were off camera or not there. Alisa eventually walked away from the elevator and she was not seen leaving the hotel. The footage was released to the public, which led to various conspiracy theories, including some that the about the hotel being haunted. Alisa was eventually found inside the hotel's water tank February of 2013, and her death was ruled in accidental drowning. There was no trauma to her body.

She had no drugs in her system. No foul play was suspected. However, many people believe her death was suspicious. They want to know how did she get to the roof without anyone noticing her? How did she, you know, get into the closed water tank? The police believe she climbed up fire escapes to get to the roof. 2017, the Cecil was declared a historic cultural monument or landmark by the LA City Council. It closed later that year. There were plans to turn it into a luxury hotel, but those fell through. Simon Barron collaborated with the Skid Row housing trust to then turn the hotel into affordable housing. And the Cecil Hotel apartments opened up on December

14, 2021. The units range between 160 and 175 square feet with common kitchens and bathrooms. Let's hope no one's staying there. You know, is somebody like Richard Ramirez or Jack Unterveger. Time suck, top five takeaways. The redemption experiment of serial killer Jack Unterveger has been sucked. Some people in hand just can't be saved. Thank you to the Bad Magic Productions team for their help again in making time suck. Starting with the Queen of Bad Magic, my partner in crime, Lindsey Cummins, thanks to the Art Warlock Logan Keith for producing directing today. I'm sorry, Tyler C. Close back and forth. Oh, offended. I'm out of here.

Yeah, thanks Tyler for producing directing today and helping me pronounce or figuring out which word was coral and which word was corral. And thanks to the art warlock for help with production. Thanks to Biddelixer for upkeep on the time stock app, art warlock, Logan Keith for creating the merch at badmagicmerch.com and helping run our socials along with Tyler, the suck ranger and a team managed by social media strategist Ryan Handelman. Thanks to producer Olivia Lee again

for the initial research this week. And thanks to the all seen eyes, moderating the call to the curious private Facebook page the mod squad Making sure discord keeps running smooth and everyone on the growing time sucks subreddit and bad magic subreddit Next week on time suck. We're gonna get witchy hairless of fena We've sucked out many people or things who could be called witches or places where witches supposedly congregate for a variety of reasons, right, the night witches, Elizabeth Bathrey, aka the blood countess, the church of Satan, Russia's granny, Ripper and more. We even covered the Spanish Inquisition, which would be part

of Christian Europe's power play in ridding the world of evil influences. AKA anyone who didn't conform exactly to how the church said you should practice religion, but we've never sucked witches from the source. And what's that source? What makes a witch witch? Well, I guess that would be witchcraft. According to the dictionary, witchcraft is the practice of magic,

especially for evil purposes, the use of spells. But it's also so much more than that. Witchcraft is how for so many centuries, people explained the unexplainable, sudden storms that came to ruin their crops, the sudden demise of their animals, blights of hail or drought, illness, death, or even just people in your community, they didn't like that much. We meet sacks always looking for someone or something to blame. Well, many of us now

feel which graph is big no no thanks to Western culture, inheriting a lot of the Roman Empire and beliefs from Christianity. It's actually such so much more complicated and spoiler alert, a lot of the Roman Empire and beliefs from Christianity. It's actually such so much more complicated. And spoiler alert, a lot less evil than the culturally dominant narrative would have you believe. For centuries, people lived alongside so-called witches and other magic practitioners, I mean, supposedly magic practitioners,

hiring them to do mundane stuff like find expensive objects that went missing, put love spells on people or protect them from unseen forces. Some of these practitioners even had a special role in just sitting on behalf of humans with supernatural forces, keeping communities safe and in harmony, or at least leading communities to think they were being kept safe because of witchcraft. Even when Christianity rose up and tried to conquer all the other alternative ways to commune with the unseen, many of these old practices survived, adapting to live

alongside Christianity, and sometimes actually helping people heal themselves and understand the natural world. But there's also a dark history, a history rife with accusations, torture, witch trials, executions, so many executions, a history of institutions using charges of witchcraft to shore up their own power and other, anyone, who stood in their way.

So witchcraft next week on Time Suck, right now let's head on over to this week's Time Sucker Updates. Updates, get your time sucker updates. First up, a message from an anonymous sack with connections to the pizza bombing episode, a bunch of them. They write dear Dan AKA a suck wise game. Guy I started listening to a time suck nice Lord the Rings reference started listening time suck after you went on the pod or the pat Mac of e show back in 2016 or 2017. I can't remember which

can either. But when I first heard about time suck I was surprised you hadn't done an episode on the pizza bomber. Well, after five years, you finally fucking did it about time. Anyway, I wanted to share a few personal connections with the pizza bomber case. I was born and raised in Erie and while I've since moved away, it'll always be home. Both my dad and grandpa are doctors who had an office in lower east side of Erie that my grandpa started when that area was over one with the most grotesque and unwashed Polish animals known to man. JK, my family is extremely proud of our Polish heritage.

I can almost read a full doctor's who spoke without help. And would you know it? Both Marjorie deal and Ken Barnes lived within a hundred yards of their office, and my grandpa was Ken Barnes' doctor up until he went to prison, and my dad had a few consultations with some of the other conspirators as well. My dad also works at the hospital where Bill Rosting died. Did my dad actually kill him? Hashtag dad watch.

I remember visiting my dad at the hospital the day of the robbery and hearing the bomb go off up the road. Nobody had any idea what happened until we saw the news. Sadly I think most people relished the fact that Erie was a headline, uh, was headline news throughout the country. Also went to get an university and took a class with Jerry Clark who was not shy to discuss the case and I took karate lessons two doors down from Mama Mia's By the way, it was juniors last laugh not JR's Thanks for all you do and keep up the great work your loyal sucker anonymous

PS why didn't you say or why did yeah? Why didn't you say just a little crack? Anonymous sucker. Yeah, that's, juniors last laugh was a club ran by those fucking weirdos. I love how connected to this case you were. How crazy for you to then get all the details to that story. Stories like the death of Brian Wells can sound so unreal, and here in connections like these, it makes them feel more real to me.

I mean, I know it all happened before you set this message, but still nice to have messages, you know, just really cement that. I hope no more of your dad's patients go off the fucking rails like some of those goons. Now some interesting kidney related thoughts from smart sucker Justin Miller who writes, Hey, Dan, long time sucker here. And I wanted to weigh in on your COVID vaccine comments after the pizza bomber episode. While I'm with you 100% regards to personal freedoms and government mandates, it must be said

that people always had a choice not to get vaccinated But get regular testing and quarantine when infected and while drug manufacturers always have had a dubious business model by profiting for medicine and Our guilty of pushing the opioid crisis for monetary gain no one ever claimed that the opioids didn't work or were fake In fact, it worked all too well. I think the anti-vaccine crowd is getting too much of a pass on these points, which really weaken their argument and comparing the issue to abortion, or as I see, excuse me, personal privacy and bodily autonomy is apples and oranges. Also, the government dictating abortion access, so you send in two messages, I kind of combine them. Also, the government dictating abortion access to its citizens or actually personal privacy and bodily autonomy as I see it is absolutely overreaching. For example, if I had a child

years ago that I was completely unaware of and never met had no relationship at all with and that child needed a kidney or they would die would it be okay for the government to force me to donate because the kids' right to life is more important than my right to autonomy. Donating a kidney is way easier than pregnancy these days and even if that is the right thing to do, I don't believe the government should have that power. Where does the slope lead? As for the people that want to protect the unborn, if the fetus has a chance of survival outside the mother, then yes, the state should step in. Otherwise, the fetus is still part of the woman's body, not a separate person. This is called viability. And from purely a a legal standpoint is the only compromise that makes sense

3 out of 5 love the show. Why love your thoughts Justin? I'm not going to even try and add any of mine. You just raised points I hadn't thought up with your kidney analogy and with your vaccine thoughts curious how other listeners will reply to them. I like to learn as much as all of you do and while I do like to share opinions obviously, I just don't have a well thought out one today on this, so I'll save myself some trouble.

I'll keep my mouth shut, since I rather than just fucking talk on my ass. And finally, Meet Sack champion Melanie McGinnis shares some fucking real life with us. Melanie is a survivor. And she writes, Hello Asshole. I like it. I want to thank you for becoming my most fucked up addiction. I've been Cummins, Lodz, so many times now I've lost count. This is the correct method for how to lose friends and negatively influence people. I recently got my air conditioner fixed on my old faithful 99 suburban. And

my first thought was, thank fuck, I can roll my windows up now and listen time suck without fear. When I first started listening, my daughter was 16 and I carefully avoided letting her hear it. Then she turned 17, was soon diagnosed with cancer, and I guess I just said fuck at one day, and she heard some shit and started dying laughing. In the last six months, we've been traveling back and forth to Atlanta to the Children's Hospital, which is four hours from where we live in Southern Georgia. Time suck has managed to keep us entertained and actually talking, not too much, after catch the details, and laughing through countless hours of writing in some really miserable days.

I've suffered some of the most uncomfortable moments a mother and daughter can have while you go off on some rant about nasty, nasty sex shit, but in the long run, it's made her talk to me more openly. She's about to start radiation, and I wondered if you'd ever thought about doing a talk about the cancer industry versus natural claims of things like not eating sugar being the way to cure it.

I know you have a list to get through, but I would be very interested to see what you come up with. I also want to tell you how amazing it is that you help so many people. I lost my business right at the beginning of the pandemic due to health problems. At the same time, my mom was diagnosed with cancer. She'd fuck. She died in March of 2021. Three months later, I started dating the best man I've ever known.

Three months later, he was killed in the motorcycle accident. I'm not sure I can explain what a fucking terrible year 2021 was and then came 2022 when my daughter got sick. My father has nothing to do with us. So I've been fighting since 2020 to provide for us or her father, excuse me, has nothing to do with. To provide for us in the most basic ways. I don't know if there's anything you can do to help, but I've heard similar stories on here and I'm too embarrassed to start my own go-fun me or some shit. I thought I couldn't hurt to ask. My kid needs things. She needs

to bed shoes. I need things. I need to be able to pay off my bankruptcy. And I'm only able to do the most minimal work because of her appointments and my own health problems. I'm trying so hard, but I need the smallest wins. As soon as I picked up my truck from the shop, my O3 Chevy truck, that my daughter drives broke down, literally leaving the mechanic, mechanics.shop. It's just shit like that every day. If there's anything you can think, the times I can do to help, I guess I'll actually start begging.

But I do understand that you can't help everyone, and if you all you can do is keep pumping out content, they humiliates me and makes my kid laugh, that'll do, pig. Thank you for being you and being a bright spot in the world. We love you. Sorry for the longest email ever. Fucking Melanie. You know, Melanie, you should create a go for me.

If anyone in fucking has ever needed one, it is you in the situation. I would feel no shame, right? I mean, I get it. I get it. And I like that you have that thought. You're clearly not somebody who lightly asks for help, but God damn, if you know, this is the place to do it. This is the time to do it. Start one. If you do start one, you can then post a link in our Facebook groups.

Right? We always let people post it once. We don't let people post it more than once because we did that for a while. It was kind of flooding the groups and causing people to leave. There's a bunch of independently ran groups that are time, time suck adjacent. I suggest posting it in all of them. If they allow that, you know, we don't mention this a lot on messages here only because we don't want to be seen as plain favorites. When we inevitably can't promote everybody's, you know, situation, even most of them, it's been a while since I personally mentioned our policy though.

So here we are and man, what a message. And throughout all this fucking good on you for keeping your head up while going through so much shit, my God, the last couple of years have been kicking you in the pussy over and over again. But the way you write, you can tell those kicks have not even come close to broken you. Maybe they've made you stronger. You inspire me with messages like that to be stronger. I sincerely hope you get the help you need more

sooner than later and that Nimrod calms the fuck down, takes it easier on you in the years ahead. So please, yes, start that go, fun me. Start fucking anything you can't. You know, if there's other companies to do similar things, start them all, right? Hug that awesome daughter of yours tight. I hope I provide many awkward that awesome daughter of yours tight. I hope

I provide many awkward moments for both of you ahead. Fucking, I would say keep on fighting, but I don't think anybody needs to tell you that. And I'll definitely add your topic suggestion to the list of possibilities. I have looked into that on the secret suck here and there. Absolutely. These, uh, most of these bogus, you know, con artist claims to get people in trouble when they pursue them. instead of pursuing proper treatment for cancer It's fucking scary, but then also the cancer industry with big pharma also scary I hope your daughter is recovering well. I hope she has the best oncologist and they're just fucking kicking ass so much till to explore Man topic-wise besides dirtbacks like like a jerk and jack and I don't even I don't even know what else to say

But you're fucking awesome clearly your daughter's awesome. Love you both Go post that start it now start that fund and thanks for the message everybody Well, thank you for listening to another Bad Magic Productions podcast. Scared to death, time suck each week, secret suck each week for the space letters. Please don't kill someone this week. Then go to prison for a long time. Then become a good writer, then trick people into lobbying to get you released, then kill more people when you got a prison. Just maybe, I don't know, think about doing shit like that. I guess if you must, while you stay somewhere

where other people are safe and just continue to keep on sucking. F already fully recorded and I'm bummed. Probably should try to go back and splice this in, but Jack in the box, the restaurant Jack in the box, actually named after Jack Oonterveger. Apparently, the fucking owner of Jack in the box is like a big fan, one of the people that wanted him to get it out. You know, just refused to fucking back down. Still is a huge fan, one of the people that wanted him to get it out, you know, just refused to fucking back down. Still as a huge fan, I guess.

And, you know, I'm just fucking just loves him. And that guy with like the big fucking head that shows up in the Jack in the Box commercials, if you like really compare that face to Jack, Oh, and Trevaker, it's a lot of similarities. Oh, and Trevaker would wear that little pointy hat inside of his head throughout his crime spree. And just think it's fucked up. But you know, they do have, they have pre-gift french fries. And that's not true.