Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 91 - The Ma Barker Gang! Ruthless 1930s Killers

Episode Date: June 11, 2018

The Ma Barker gang robbed bank, after bank, after drugstore, after hardware store, clothing store, Chevy dealership, jewelry store, and still more banks in the early 1930s. They committed more robberies and took more lives than the much more famous Dillinger Gang. The Dillinger Gang was active for less than one year. The Barker-Karpis gang was active from 1931 to 1935. FDR called them out on national radio during one of his famous fireside chats, referring to them as “an attack on everything we hold dear”. FBI Director J Edgar Edgar Hoover described Ma as "the most vicious, dangerous and resourceful criminal brain of the last decade". But, was she really their leader? Or was she just along for the wild ride? Keep listening and find out, on today’s shoot ‘em up, put your hands in the air edition, of Timesuck! Timesuck is brought to you today by AmeriGas! Go to MyTimeSuckGrill.com between now and July 4th and enter your name and email to register to win a free Weber Spirt II – E 210 grill ($400 value). The winner will be announced July 6th! Timesuck is also brought to you The Great Courses Plus! Do yourself a HUGE favor and get a month of SO MUCH amazing, interesting, and informative content for FREE: https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/timesuck Merch - https://badmagicmerch.com/ Want to try out Discord!?! https://discord.gg/tqzH89v Want to join the Cult of the Curious private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" in order to locate whatever current page hasn't been put in FB Jail :) For all merch related questions: https://badmagicmerch.com/pages/contact Please rate and subscribe on iTunes and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG, @timesuckpodcast on Twitter, and www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcast Wanna be a Space Lizard? We're over 2500 strong! Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast Sign up through Patreon and for $5 a month you get to listen to the Secret Suck, which will drop Thursdays at Noon, PST. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. You get to vote on two Monday topics each month via the app. And you get the download link for my new comedy album, Feel the Heat. Check the Patreon posts to find out how to download the new album and take advantage of other benefits. And, thank you for supporting the show by doing your Amazon shopping after clicking on my Amazon link at www.timesuckpodcast.com

Holy shit, it's gonna be fun ride today. Man, I forgot how much I love depression, era, gangster tales. The members of the mob marker gang, aka the Barker Carp is gang, they quickly evolved into and became more commonly known as we're cold-blooded, Steven, Kidnappen, Copkillin, Sunsabitches.

They don't deserve to be romanticized. They were self-serving, ruthless dirtbags. I know that. But there is something darkly romantic about old-time bank robbers. A criminal such as a rapist is an obvious fucking coward. Holden down someone, usually physically weaker than themselves, physically and psychologically violating someone they've drugged or tricked or are holding a weapon to, using them for their own sadistic physical pleasure. The nature that crime to me isn't inherently evil. Same for pedophilia, same for most murders. Those crimes seem to me and I think to most of us as inhuman somehow, which partly explains I feel our fascination with them. How could someone do that? Theft, however, while also not morally justified,

is so much more relatable, because it's so very human. We don't all thank God, want to rape. However, we all do want money. Even if you don't consider yourself materialistic or monetarily driven, you still have bills to pay, or if you don't somehow then someone else is paying for your existence

and I hope you're grateful for them being at least somewhat financially motivated. And almost all of us have stolen something at some point in our lives. Maybe you haven't taken anything from a store but have you ever bit torrented a movie? Ever used someone else's username and password to watch something intended for paid subscribers only with no intention of ever paying yourself. Ever downloaded an album, someone gave you on a thumb drive and listened to it over and over

and then never paid for that. Well, welcome to the thief club. You might not think you're in, but you're in. You took something or you used something, you listened to or watched something that someone else created with the intention of having a soul. It belonged to them.

It belonged to the people who chose to buy it. And I think the reason we're fasting with bank robbers is, well, illegally downloading, say, a movie is pretty easy. It's a very low risk crime. You're probably not going to get caught. And if you do, you're not going to get punished very severely. Robbing banks, very different, anything but easy. People guard banks.

People paid to guard banks, people with with guns people who can legally kill you If you try to take what belongs to the bank and the mob Barker aka Barker Carpisk gang robbed banks a lot of banks They did something that's very hard to do and they did it over and over again Coming into a large sum of money quickly. How many of us have had that fantasy? How many of us have daydreamed about hitting a lottery or finding some briefcase full of unmarked $100 bills? That would be the best.

Well, the Barker Boys didn't just fantasize about it. They did it. They didn't find money. They didn't win it. They just went out and took it. And they got away with it for years. They robbed bank after bank after after bank, after drugstore, after hardware store, clothing store,

Chevy dealership, jewelry store, still more banks that committed more robberies than the much more famous Dillinger gang. The Dillinger gang was active for less than one year. The Barker Carpers gang was active from 1931 to 1935. They bought a custom bank robbing car off of Al Capone's car man. They got drunk with babyface Nelson and Reno, got in a bar room debate with future president Harry Truman in Kansas City.

President FDR called them out on national radio during one of his famous fireside chats, called them an attack on everything we hold dear. FBI director J Edgar Hoover made it his personal mission to take them down. Only four depression air gangsters were ever given the title of public enemy number one by the FBI. John Dillinger, babyface Nelson, pretty boy Floyd, and Alvin Creepy Carpice. And only Carpice, the man who ran with mom, those Barker boys, was ever taken alive. And today, we're going to suck deep on the story of this infamous gang and their leader, Ma Barker, a woman Jay Edgar Hoover described as the most vicious, dangerous, and resourceful

criminal brain of the last decade. But was she really, was she really their leader? Or was she just along for the wild ride? Keep listening and find out on today shoot them up. Put your hands in the air edition of Time Suck. Happy Monday Time Suckers. Welcome to the Colt the Curious. This is Time Suck. I am the rare Colt leader who is not trying to bone any of the cult members outside of my wife. Of course I am always trying to bone her to some degree. I have the master sucker Dan. Come and tell Nimrod excited for today's show excited for some announcements. Some seriously cool. No, now I'm gonna say some seriously dope ass summer merch. Just hit the, talking about that in a second. Thank you so much for all the recent ratings and reviews online.

Nothing spreads the suck better than ratings and reviews and word of mouth. Oh, man, I appreciate you guys doing that. Thanks to whatpods.com for including Time Suck in their new list of the 64 funniest podcast in the English-speaking world. We landed at number 15. That's pretty awesome. It was an honor just to be on the list. There's so, so many podcasts out there.

Time suck landed ahead of so many long standing, very funny and very popular podcasts, very honored. And Time suck has brought to you once again by America. America, gas, bald eagles, barbecues, Willie Nelson, John Wayne, hot dogs, campfire chili. I think of all these things, I think of Amerigas. It's patriotism and gaseous form. So get your grill on this summer with Amerigas, propane exchange and do it on the new, free American made Weber grill.

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Sub grill dot com winner will be announced on Friday, July six, link in today's episode description, got speed and hail Nimrod. Now for that exciting merch news, the summer line is here. I know Pickens have been pretty slim since the Memorial Day sale. I know sizes have been low and by low. I mean completely out of almost everything. Now we're restocked so much. Good shit.

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time to showcase the ta ta's. Nimrod is so pleased with this tank top, it's 50% cotton, and 100%. No, I'm sorry, a thousand percent. My, my, my, my, my, exotic material important, what he would have My, my, my, my, my exotic material important, what he would have been so mad at me. It's a thousand percent baby deer,

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dark blue and gold, Nimrod cuisies, blue and gold, Chica teelo, cuisies, what this big deal? I like cold drink. I enjoy cold drink and soft cock. Red and sexy, blood orange, lucid fina, cuisies, hael lucid fina, black and lime green, secret suck cuisies, only for space lizzers. Keep your drinks cold, keep your mind sharp. Cie's believed to give their owners somewhere around 500 extra IQ points. That's what my science team tells me. And by my science team, I mean my two doodles, Penny Poopers, and Ginger Bell. And is that all? No. You've asked for a year and magnets also here, three inch by three inch, sick black logo based circular magnet, and a seven inch by one and three quarter inch rectangular magnet.

Both guaranteed to spread the suck, both guaranteed to block reptilian mind control signals beaming down from the moon, both guaranteed to annoy the shit out of flat earthers. All right. Quick tour announcements before diving into the mob arc again. I hope you enjoy that merch. Thanks to Washington DC time suckers who came to the draft house this past weekend. I was given a few more challenge coins by some veterans kick ass highway patrolman and thank you veterans for protectness from foreign harm and thank you police officers from protecting us from domestic harm. You don't get enough credit.

Adam Dayton came out the man myth legend who created those beautiful hand painted cornhole boards, sent them into the suck dungeon, speaking of corn this weekend, June 15th and 16th of flatters to her roles into Des Moines, Iowa, Des Moines, Iowa. Maybe it's a funny bone. July 12th to the 14th. That's the next stop Orlando improv, live podcast on the 15th and it's almost sold out. It actually may be sold out. Only a handful of tickets left. If any, grab those quick. Link in today's episode description. Of course, comedy store in La Jolla, California, July 2022, date no higher, funny bone July 27th to 28th, more dates Portland, Denver, Tacoma, Spokane, and more, Dan Cummins.tv. Thanks for listening. I know announcements can be annoying

sometimes, but I try to make them fun and sponsors man. Live dates, merch, keep the suck coming. It's my barker time. America in the 1920s. Let's talk about it. Let's learn some shit. Let's get smarter. Let's suck on the rise of organized crime and gangsters. Why did organized crime take off from the 20s? Well, it thanks to good old prohibition. Those T totalers never saw that coming. Did they? ratified on January 29th 1919 the 18th Amendment prohibited the sale possession or consumption of libations Went into effect about a year later by which time no fewer than 33 states had already enacted their own statewide prohibition legislation. On October 19, 19, Congress passed a National Prohibition Act, which provided guidelines for the federal enforcement of prohibition.

It was championed by representative Andrew Volstedt of Mississippi, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee. The legislation became commonly known as the Volsted Act. And prohibition was a representative Andrew Volstad of Mississippi, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, the legislation became commonly known as the Volstad Act, and prohibition was a foolish stupid plan. A great example of trying to legislate based on subjective morality instead of logic. Right, alcohol. Always been an extremely popular drug. Always has been an America.

It's part of the culture. Always been the number one drug of choice for many Americans woven into the fabric of the nation, woven into cultural fabric of pretty much all the European nations on which America was built. Poor and rich alike have always enjoyed some spirits to ease their troubles or enhance their celebrations. And the timing of prohibition was especially terrible. America had just returned from World War I.

A war that had left over 16 million total people dead, that's the soldiers and civilians. Over 300,000 Americans dead missing or wounded, countries with strong cultural ties to America had lost millions. World War I ended on November 11, 1918, just over two months before the prohibition act was ratified. The nation was still grieving, and a lot of people wanted to stiff drink. And whether it's demand, there's always going to be supply.

Right, bootlegger sprung up to Keith the Spirit's flowing with so much money to be made in bootlegging. Fortune started being made with increased competition. Competition led to violence. Violence led to organization to not get killed. Organization led to widespread, frantic and public masturbation became a real problem who could blame the hundreds of thousands of men of women who were now

openly masturbated in the streets to ease their troubles without a bold cold beer or a glass of wine to keep them You know calm. It was only a matter of time before this happened. Of course, that's nonsense. Can you imagine if that did happen now? Would that be a part of the history taught in schools? Yes, Jonathan, what's your question? I'm sorry, Mrs. Anderson. Did you say hundreds of thousands of men and women started jerking and diddling themselves in the streets? I said masturbating, Jonathan, and if you want to turn this into something crude, I'm happy to send you down to Principal Sanchez's office. As I was saying, between 1919 and 1933, four point three million Americans were arrested

for furiously and openly masturbating, specifically in the middle of the streets of this great nation. And now, what's serious, who could supply Speakeasy's most consistently through bribing officials and killing or intimidating anyone who tried to interfere with their new business, gangs, organized gangs. So now new booze selling gangs are popping up

in New York, Chicago, Boston, you know, other places were mantisized in the press. What they were doing wasn't really seeing that as that bad by a lot of Americans, you know, a lot of Americans were drinking the booze they supplied. They were happy to have the gangs, you know, or they wanted to be drinking that booze. Then when FDR ended prohibition in 1933, it's rumored he immediately celebrated with a martini, which was his favorite drink. And I highly doubt he had not had another martini since 1918.

I mean, maybe, but I bet, you know, even the high ranking politicians were sneaking some boots. You know, so now in the 20s, you have these kids growing up, idolizing these new gangsters that again are romanticized in the press. It has been said by many that gangsters were America's most famous celebrities in the 20s. You know, kids such as the Barker kids are reading about them here and about their exploits, wanting to be them. And then when the Great Depression hits, following the stock market free fall of October 1929, you have young men old enough to hit the workforce

now who find out that there is no fucking workforce anymore. Not like there used to be, unemployment would actually hit 25% in 1933. Holy shit, a quarter of the workforce completely unemployed. Can you imagine that? I mean, currently the United States has an unemployment level somewhere around 3.9%. That's as of April, 2018. So over six times the amount of unemployed people per capita. So now you get a lot of poor people who have grown up, romanticizing gangsters

who are more poor than they've ever been. They need money. They can't find work. And you still have organized crime. It didn't end with prohibition. It just found new ways to make money. And with the Barker boys, uh, one way was to form a new gang and rob a shit ton of banks. Now that we have a little context, we're going to dive into the meat of today's tale in just a bit. First, I want to let you know about a cool old movie I found on YouTube about my Barker and her gang called My Barker's Killer Brood. The poster for this B flick is so good, I immediately bought it. I bought it, I bought a cheap replica of it. I found out that originals exist,

but they're a little too expensive for my taste. It's fucking awesome. I love those old 50s and early 60s movie posters, especially for the B movies. And in the comments below this movie, I found today's idiots of the internet Okay again today's comments come from the full length my Barker's killer brewed movie on YouTube Gradle black and white B movie gangster flick starring Lorraine Tuttle you may remember her as Gladys P body from the Beverly Hillbillies

Or a Vinny day from life with father Odds are you you do not remember I did not remember her as Gladys Peabody from the Beverly Hillbillies, or as Vinny Day from Life with Father. Odds, are you, you do not remember? I did not remember her. Uh, in the opening scene, some poor victim of Ma Barker and her gang is getting gasoline splashed on him, and then he's set on fire dramatically. And then some words come on the screen with the music you hear now played underneath it. This story is true, documented from police records. News paper files and eyewitness reports, it is the sadistic career of Katherine Clark Barker, master of crime.

Utate sons that the only crime was to get caught. So cunning was this evil genius that in almost two decades of robbery, kidnapping, and murder, she herself was never once arrested. Ma Barker, mother to the underworld and public enemy. Mother to the underworld, I love it. And then in the comments below, some idiots turn the commentary up political. User, Mr. Showbar post, Ma Barker, the Sarah Palin of her time.

Immediately Kenneth Wallace's butthurt. Kenneth Wallace, I'm sure some man who's never met her, says, no comparison, you liberal Democrat socialist communist. Liberal Democrat socialist communist. Wow, little anger, little anger towards the left. Couldn't handle one little palenjam. Mr. Showbar comes back with, go brush your tooth. And I know that's an easy joke, but I still always like it.

And Kenneth Wallace doesn't come back with anything. So maybe he, maybe he really did, you know, take him up on, on the advice, and he did go brush his tooth, polished it right up. If you do have only one tooth, I do think you probably keep it clean and shiny. Or maybe that is a terrible idea. Maybe that would just draw more attention to your one tooth. Create a lot of unwanted fascination around it. How did he lose all of his other teeth when he's clearly taken such great care of that

one? Next comment, Dehan goes back the other way. Panzer Marsh posts, Ma Barker, the Hillary of her time. Oh, two Shay Tits, Fort Tats. Moron videos, 1940 replies with, you make no sense with that statement. And that reply works, or I would say about 30 to 50% of all YouTube comments. Gabe Gehrin post, go Trump. These guys are clearly looking for any excuse just to throw in some liberal or conservative grandstanding. And the two unnecessary political comments and the replies underneath them are after all that.

User Alter Ego asks, is there a nest of you fuck with somewhere? I love that. If you find that nest alter ego, please destroy it and let me know so I can celebrate your great deed. User Doc Harris is sick at the political comments and he's also quite possibly insane. Posting, the election is over gentlemen, okay, let it rest. But if you want to hot dog, then guess what you're in the circus and the ringleader is done Donald and his good troop and Just for the record. I wasn't a Hillary supporter either if she was one it would have been way worse

God bless his country because this clown will have people running to Christ for sure huh Donald and his good troop will have us running to Christ and you want to hotdog? Your people are going to go in the circus if they hotdog. I think I get the gist of what you're saying, Doc. I just think you should run your future comments through an editor. At least a friend, you know, maybe should look over before you post him. Does this make sense? No, Doc, it does not. What point are you trying to make exactly with a hot dog slash circus analogy?

But yeah, okay. So user, eternal, gun, house, crack my shit up with this post. He says, my name, no, he says, my dog's name is Mob Barker. She is badass, just like this bitch. I fucking love it. What a great name for a dog, Mob Barker. Wonder how many other Mob Barkers are out there?

Mob Barker and Bojangles. What a terrific two sum that would be. User Jack Hyde also really cracks me up, saying a little unknown fact was that not all Barker's sons were killed once revived and went on to become the greatest game show host, Bob Barker. How great would that be if that was true? If long time prices right host, Bob Barker was the son of Bob Barker.

From bank robbing to Plinco today on A&E biographies, the story of Bob Barker. Uh, user or spam bot, ND87 she horned some some spam into the comment section some idiocy say now i scanned some of the replies on here however i believe that this is a first-rate you do video my brother simply wishes to become the best with the ladies he figured out a lot from master attraction

google it if you want pretty good emails on picking up girls the strategies for seducing girls through nightclubs from master attraction got him his first sex in around four years. Got him his first sex. I really, I was really bothered though because I heard them all. What the fuck are you talking? I love the first two sentences and the pivot in between them. This is a first rate YouTube video that totally reads as, I did not watch a second of this.

And then immediately pivoting to my brother simply wishes to become the best with the ladies, which definitely reads to me is, I wrote this in Nigeria and I'm quite desperate for your dollars. I checked out masterattraction.com. You know, after that hell of an endorsement, you know, first sex in four years. And I left masterattraction.com after reading the first sentence.

It says, welcome to masterattraction formula. I'm Jake. I help men get girls. That's creepy. Men get girls? Wow, dude. How about men get women? When you phrase it, when you phrase it as men getting girls, you sound like your website

should be renamed to jailbait.com. And then I thought, is that a real website? And I literally, I search so stupid, I started to type in jailbait. And I'm like, what are you fucking doing? You moron? Well, I'm never going to find the answer to that question. I don't care. I don't care if it's out there. I'm not going to look you fucking doing? You moron? Like, I'm never gonna find the answer to that question. I don't care. I don't care if it's out there.

I'm not gonna look because the answer is not worth having FBI agents come to my home to confiscate my hard drive and take away my kids. Okay, one more. User Hilda Martin does some very odd hookup trolling. I just thought this was funny because it was so weird. Like, where she chose to do this. She asks, so do vampires make friends?

I think they're sexiest or is that funny? Okay. I feel like we now know three things about Hilda. One, she can't spell very well. She spells funny as F-O-N-N-I-E. I'm pretty sure she meant funny. Two, she finds vampires to be sexy. She said sexiest. I think they're sexiest.

I think she just, you know, anybody's sexy. And then three, she's so desperate to find someone else who shares her vampire fetish that she's dropping this comment under a 1960 mob-barker movie. It has nothing to do with vampires at all in any way. Nor is it probably going to be like a movie It has nothing to do with vampires at all in any way. Nor is it probably going to be like a movie that would draw other vampire lovers or fetish havers.

What are you doing, Hilda? If you're gonna troll for some vampire dick, get out of the mob barker comment thread, move over to one of the underworld movies or maybe blade. Even the vampire and Brooklyn and buffy the vampire slayer threads are better than this. Know your audience, Hilda. Know your audience and maybe you spell check.

And that's all for today's idiots of the internet. Idiots of the internet. If you do watch the movie we just talked about, know that the depiction of Ma in that movie was a popular one after her arrest for for decades. The public narrative around Ma Barca was that she raised her boys to be criminals and that then she was the mastermind of the gang and that she was a hard-drinking hard-leaven woman who probably was handy with a gun. And after she was gunned down herself, you know, the public was led to believe that she was an active participant at the crimes the gang committed.

Scholars have more recently come to highly doubt this depiction though. Thinking it was more likely she just loved her boys in spite of their criminal dealings, you know, and enabled them for sure. Probably at the very least tacitly condoned what they did, but was not like the mastermind. If this modern analysis is true, though, why would she accompany them on the crime spree? I do find that unusual. No other gangs at the time had their mom along for the ride, or I don't think since. I'm guessing the truth about Ma Barker, like somewhere between her being a mastermind

and her being an instant bystander. You make your own judgment. After marching through today's time-soc timeline. Shrap on those boots, soldier. We're marching down a time-soc timeline. On October 17th, 1873, Arizona, Donnie Clark was born in Ashgrove, Green County, Missouri. She was going by Kate and some accounts Catherine Sometimes went by Rita damn damn gangsters and their nicknames and aliases She'd become commonly known as Ari what a cool name actually Arizona. I really liked it Donnie on the other hand

Unfortunate interesting choice is a middle name for a woman I feel like that's almost as bad as like Hank or Dick It's a middle name for a woman. I feel like that's almost as bad as like Hank or Dick. This is my daughter, Kimberly Hank Johnson, and this is my other daughter, Michelle Dick Johnson. Yeah, doesn't have, don't have good rings. At the time of Ari's birth, Ash Grove only had four

to five hundred residents. By the size of my hometown, Rick and Zydeho, only has about 1400 residents today, little farm town, about 20 miles northeast to Springfield, Missouri, a little over 150 miles south at Kansas City. As a child, Ari was described as Godfaring and a devout Presbyterian.

She was also described as tough and ill-tempered, and she loved tales of 19th century gangsters, like Jesse and Frank James. The Jesse James gang, man, gotta suck those dirty cowboys one of these days, which is a sentence that could be interpreted very differently out of the context of this podcast. Ari is said to have been devastated when Jesse was shot in the back and killed while he was straight in a picture on the wall in 1882.

When she was just eight years old, Jesse's killer, Robert Bob Ford would be reviled in history as the dirty little coward who's shot late poor Jesse and his grave So my Barker, you know how to fast nation with gangsters long before the 1920 she loved those old Wild West stage coach and train robbers That the again the press also romanticized 1892 R.E. does what 19 year olds did back then if they hadn't done so already she marries Somebody she marries George Barker before she was 20, before she becomes an old maid. Then I want to ever play that, the car game old maid when they were a kid, by the way.

I used to play with my great grandma Stella Burman born in 1915, great woman. She traveled by wagon as a kid, helped raise three generations of my family. Probably was fast handed by tales of the mob Barker and Barker Carpers gang when she was a team. Love you, Grandma Stell. Anyways, Aryan George lived near Aurora, Missouri where George worked as a sharecropper. He described as mild manored, a soft spoken man,

said that Arya was the one that ran the family. She wore the pants in most media depictions. Poor George's portrayed as a total door, Matt, Ari walked all over. Aurora, by the way, isn't that much bigger than Ash Grove, 7,500 people in the Southwest corner of Missouri, former Mindtown, that transformed into an agricultural community, 30 miles southwest of Springfield. And that would be the birthplace of the key members of the Barker gang. George and Ari Barker had four sons, all born in Aurora, Missouri.

Their first son, Herman, was born October 30th, 1893. Then Lloyd William called red was born next on March 14th, 1897. Red was named after the fact that he had a red penis, much like a dog. It was unfortunate. Arthur Raymond called doc was born January 4th, 1899. Frederick George Freddie was born, uh, December 12th, 1901, and I did make up that shit about the dog's dick. I hope you know that.

Guess he got the nickname red because he had red hair. Uh, if you didn't have red hair, but did have a red dick, you'd think he'd, he'd really fight to accept that nickname. I know I would. If I had a red dick, like a bright red dick like a dog and people found out and wouldn't stop calling me red, I would run away. Leave my family, I've started new life somewhere, you know, get a more, get a more respectable

nickname, something like ace, snake. I'd even take Skippy over red in that situation. I take Goober over red as in a dog's red rocket red. Anyway, sometime around 1903, the family moved to Webb City, a small 11,000 person suburb of Joplin, Missouri, Joplin itself having about 50,000 people. Joplin, if you'll recall, also was the location

of Bonnie and Clyde's infamous apartment hideout that they left after having to shoot out with law enforcement in 1933. Joplin, 70 miles due west of Springfield and from the look of the map, less than five miles from the state line with Kansas and less than 10 miles, probably closer to five miles from the Oklahoma state line. Guessing that's what made the town so popular in the days of prohibition and depression air gangsters, when all you had to do to escape being chased by the cops was just making

across a state line. You know, we talked about the importance of that, uh, those state lines and pulling off these heights in the body and Clyde suck, you know, to refresh your memory. If you're a long time sucker, essentially not, not all states had passed a form of the uniform act on fresh pursuit in the early thirties, which allowed state police to cross state lines when pursuing a person or person suspected of committing a felony back then as long as the fed specifically weren't chasing you. You know, and that was rare making it to the next state was almost like making it out of the country when it came to being pursued by law enforcement, which would make it

a lot easier to be criminal. Man, get a hideout on the state line and you just have to make it a few miles to start a new life and get away with it. But I digress, we're talking about the childhood of the Barker Boys. Truth is, we don't know a lot about the Barker's early family life. Well, we know in addition to working as a sharecropper

that George would work as an or buyer for the Queen Jack Mine, the prime western smelter company around Joplin. We know the boys attended web grade school and we know that Herman gained a reputation as a prankster at school and that he once wrote a horse through the front door of a local saloon in imitation of his idol, Jesse James.

And one can only surmise, he came to idolize Jesse James because his mother also idolized him, teaching her boys to love outlaws and bank robbers. In 1910, the oldest boy, Herman, has his first encounter with law. to love outlaws and bank robbers. In 1910, the oldest boy, Herman, has his first encounter with the law. That's pretty crazy that he just wrote a horse.

So this is into his saloon, by the way. Yeah, so clearly he was, he was, he was Balsey. And then, yeah, and then he gets arrested for petty theft in 1910, but released to his mother after she begs authority, authorities not to incarcerate him. And then on March 5th, 1915, five years later, she was arrested for highway robbery and Ari again throws a public tantrum and is somehow able to convince local authorities to

relinquish herman to her care again. And man, can anyone say a nabler? She makes the wrong call here again. Let your kid go to jail for a bit when the stakes are low when they're young. They don't spend much time behind bars, you know, they don't have to be on the permanent record. Still have time to change the course of their lives. What lesson is Herman learning that he can get arrested and have mob bail him out.

That's not a good lesson. And how strong was Ari's will in order for her to convince local authorities to let her son off for highway robbery. He's 21 years old now, not 15 this time. I don't think you can pull off that shit today. Like good luck talking a judge into letting your 21 year old come, not 15 this time. I don't think you can pull off that shit today. Like good luck talking a judge into letting your 21 year old come live with you instead of going to prison for highway robbery.

After this arrest, Ari allegedly tells her neighbors that her sons are marked. You know, you tell them the police that this won't stop picking on my boys around here. So, you know, pretty sure that it stopped getting picked on, Ari, if you, you know, convinced him to stop taking other people's shit. That's usually how that works.

Ma Grusofyrs, with the way she felt law enforcement was picking on her sons and she demanded that her, demanded that her husband George move the whole family to Tulsa, Oklahoma, where her own family had already previously moved. Her, her stepdad was actually working in Tulsa as a police officer at this time. Maybe, uh, maybe uncle, Uncle, what's Uncle, nah guys, Uncle, I guess stepdad would go easy on the boys. Maybe, you know, let him take what they wanted, like a good cop.

In 1914, I kinda just jumped back there. Right around when he, 1915, sorry, 1915, I put down the wrong number, 1915, the Barker family does move to Tulsa. when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, when he, uh, when he, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, uh, when he, when he, uh, when he, uh, uh, uh,inquents. They formed the Central Park gang. The Barker boys, you know, the team group of hooligans would include numerous members of the later Barker Carpors gang. In 1916, Herman is arrested again. He's arrested in Joplin on a multitude of burglary charges this time, including the July burglary of Hawkins and Miller jewelry store in Springfield due to his prior record. He sentenced to 40 years in the Missouri State Penitentiary.

Mom is not talking officials out of sending him away this time, but he does manage to escape. He escapes incarceration and flees to Montana, where he immediately starts committing more crimes so much for the theory that he was just getting picked on in Joplin. Uh, in October of 1916, under the alias Bert Lavender. He's arrested, hermit is arrested in Billings, Montana for burglary, grand larcery, larceny, excuse me, and sentenced to six to 12 years in the Montana State Penitentiary at Dear Lodge.

You can actually visit this prison now, if you want, it's called the Old Prison Museum. I've driven by once in my earlier Montana travels and it's pretty cool looking place. Bert Lavender, great alias by the way. He had fun with that one. That sounds fancy. I wonder what other alias were considered

that didn't make the cut, maybe like Lawrence Cumberbund. You can call me Nathaniel Haberdash. Third Ferguson is what I will be known by. July 4th, 1918. Another one of Ma's brewed 19 year old Arthur Doc Baker gets arrested for having stolen a government car on June 26th and Tulsa. And damn, damn coppers are picking on him too.

Just, you know, every kids keep getting picked on. Really cramping his style. He somehow manages to escape fleece to Joplin where he stays until he's recapture there in 1920 and returned to Tulsa. Again, manages to escape fleece to joplin where he stays until he's recapture there in 1920 return to Tulsa Again manages to escape if you'll recall from the old Bonnie and Clyde suck meant really easy to escape from jail back then compared to now Jail's were overcrowded under staffed guards were under trained underpaid security cameras non-existent Electronic locks not a thing people just literally walked out of prison fairly often, or they would dig out, climb over a fence, sneak away from a labor camp,

you know, break their chain on a chain gang, walk away. And then again, they could just sneak out to a neighboring state and start a new life, which is often offensive of criminal life. They usually just ended up getting apprehended a little bit later. August 17, 1918, Lloyd Redween, Barker, and listen to the Army in Tulsa just a few months before the end of World War I. All dog dick, all red rocket serves as a cook with the 160 second depot brigade, 87th division, and is honorably discharged with the rank of sergeant in February of 1919. So he's kind of turning his life around. But then in January 1921, using the alias Claude Dale, Doc is arrested for the attempted

burglarie of the bank or of a bank in Muskegee Muskegee. Ah, fucking Muskegee Muskegee. Muskegee I didn't look it up Oklahoma. It's one of these fucking many terrible words that show up in these scripts. Muskegee I think is how you say it. It's M-U-S-K-O-G-E-E. I missed that one on my prep. Doc was released short time later,

and then was soon implicated in more serious trouble. The Barker boys, man, if they weren't in jail, they just could not stop causing trouble. Tulsa's new Catholic hospital, St. John's under construction, and on the night of August 26, 1921, three men breaking into the building, while it's under construction, robbed the office safe August 26 1921, three men break into the building while it's under construction, rob the office safe right after it shows up there. They're interrupted by the night watchman Thomas J. Cheryl, whom they kill while fleeing

the scene soon after. Voney Davis and Docker arrested and charged for Cheryl's murder. Ma is definitely not keeping her boy out of jail this time. They're convicted and sentenced to life in prison to Oklahoma State penitentiary and McAllister. And this time, Doc does not escape. He actually makes his peace with his imprisonment. Largely because while Ma is not able to get him out of jail, she is able to make his stay a little more comfortable

by buying him a subscription to his favorite comic book, a comic extremely popular, as you know, in the early 20th century, that many of you are already familiar with. It's called Pudy and Juju. And Doc was especially fond of issue number one, 13 of the original Pudy and Juju run called Pudy and Juju's prison break. Now in this bees knees, it issue Pudy accidentally robs a bank when he finds the security guard's gun laying on the floor. Next to the guard, falling out of his holster when the guard fell asleep in his chair, not familiar with gun etiquette. Pooty absent mindedly points the pistol at the guard and the clumsy attempt to give it back to him and the guard awakens to find himself staring down

the barrel of his own coat 45. He instinctively throws his hands in the air and yells, Jeepers, are you zoosled? Don't shoot. Which causes rest of the bank to panic, including Poodie, who waves the gun around the room as he tries to explain himself. I ain't doing nothing now, everyone. I just trying to give the guard was rightfully his. Well, this is misinterpreted by the branch manager

who thought that Poodie meant he was gonna give the guard, who's in tears by this point a belly full of lead And he yells don't shoot you'll get your lettuce and then putty who did come to make an account withdrawal Thought the manager was fooling around and just joked back saying you slay me small bills and fast before someone gets hurt Upon hearing this some other customer some terrified Dame squeals, startling Poodie into firing the gun. Next thing you know, he served in five to 10 and 11 worth. Juju not happy with any of this. Juju can't afford the mortgage on the little house.

They just went 50, 50 on. So Juju decides to sneak a file into prison to get Poodie out. So Poodie can pay, you know, Poodie's share of the mortgage. Poodie explains that the whole thing was one big misunderstanding, but Juju's not hearing it. Two little two day of Poodie, and then Juju slides Poodie a file under the table. Poodie asks,

how am I supposed to sneak this into my sale, Juju? And Juju hisses, put it in your lunchbox, Shirley. Poodie's completely befuddled. What kind of phone is below us? You're squawkin' about, Juju? Juju nods towards Poody's hiding towards his rear end. Put it in your lunch box, Shirley. Oh, says Pudy.

Before quietly sneaking the file up into his or her anus. Turns out a lunch box can refer to something other than a place to keep your lunch. It can also be the place your lunch ends up after you eat it. Pudy sneaks the file up and in. Then later files down some bars in a cell, escapes just in time to get Pudy's job back and help Juju keep from foreclosing the house, the ant, and doc love that issue.

And if you're new to the show, that comic only exists in the time stock world. Please don't spend a lot of time googling it. And that's about as weird as we get. And you made it through it, you powered through it. You're still listening. And so now we are going to head back to our regularly scheduled programming. While doc sends to life in prison, that part's real. He wouldn't actually spend his whole life there. He will get out. He will rejoin the timeline in about 10 years. But back to to 1921 also 1921, not the best year for the Barker family. Old second born red is arrested for vagrancy and Tulsa and then arrested again for robbing a male career in backstreet springs, Kansas, and he gets sentenced to 25 years in 11 worth with PUDE.

No, but for real, he goes to 11 worth. He enters 11 worth on January 16, 1922. He remained there until 1938. Once out, he would reenlist in the military, serve as a cook again in World War II this time. He would get honorably discharged again, then he moved to Denver, get married, have a daughter, get a job as an assistant manager and live happily ever after. Not quite.

He did walk away from life of crime, he did end up in Denver, did get married, did have a daughter, did get a decent job, was unable to escape the violent death that would be the fate of almost every member of his family. The one Barker boy who would eventually walk away from life of crime crime ended up still getting his head nearly blown off with a point blank Shotgun blast in 1949 his wife shot him when he came home from work And then she would spend the rest of her life in an insane asylum. Not sure what happened to their child Clearly Red's tale has now been told and and he is out of the timeline Okay, so now we head back again to the early 20s. Red is still alive, but in prison in Kansas, Herman is in prison in Montana. Doc is in prison in Oklahoma, and

the youngest Barker boy, Fred, is the only son, not currently incarcerated. Man, Ari and George must have been just so proud of the fam. Hey, George, how are the kids? Good, real good. Real good. Herman's staying out of trouble up in Montana. Red's keeping himself in Kansas. And, you know, Doc, he's enjoying a little rest and relaxation, McAllister. Fred's just trying to decide which brother to bunk up with. You know, here's him, yeah, we're fine, they're good. Red, the only free brother, is doing his best

to get locked up as well. On September 1st, 1922, Fred and two other men rob a mail carrier who's delivering $14,200 worth of a mine's payroll. And then on January 6, 1923, Fred and another man rob a backroom poker game. It slimmed repair shop. They net $600, but police are informed that Fred was behind it. He's arrested on June 28, 1923, sentenced to five years in Macalester. Apparently he decides to bunk up with Doc. He'd be out again in only a few years.

And again, how nice would it be to be their parents? Right? Now you have four sons. Four sons, all of whom are in prison, were separate crimes. My Barker, whether or not she would later go on to be a criminal mastermind, or just along for the right, clearly not a great mom. Clearly a criminal enabler. Man, her and George not winning any parent of the year awards 1926. Herman gets out of prison in Montana, heads back to Tulsa where he forms a new gang on June 7th 1926. Herman and another gang member are arrested. They

quickly get out thanks to the help of a crooked Ottawa County judge, Philip McGee. And then on November 8th, 1926, Fred, recently a free man, is cop burglarized in a place called Dylan's grocery store. And on March 5th, 1927, he sends to another five years. This catcher is constantly in and out this time at the Kansas State Penitentiary where he would soon meet Alfin Creepy Carpice. December 20th, 1926, Herman Ray Terrell others breaking to the state bank above FLO in Wilson County, Kansas, steal 6,000 cash and then American Express Travels

checks worth another 2,000. And then three weeks later on January 16th, 1927, they take the safe from the bank and Rogersville, Missouri. And then the next day Terrell Herman and their gang break into a bank in Jasper, Missouri. They'd stolen a truck, backed it up to the bank. The plan was to winch the safe into the back of the truck, take it back to the hideout of radium springs, empty it, then dump it over the side of the Lindsey May bridge into the grand river below.

Jesus. And all this shit mind you is before the formation of the Ma Barker or Barker Carpets gang. The crime run that would outlast the Dillinger gangs run by years hasn't even started yet. All these crimes we've talked about are these these guys basically just warming up for their big robberies later. May 17th, 1927, another May 17th, excuse me, May 17th in the timeline this week. I love it.

My birth they can't stay out of these timelines. Herman and his common life wife Carol used some of the stolen travelers checks. They just take it and can't just clerk notice the symptoms off. Calls the police. Deputy sheriff, Arthur, Emil, Osborne, stops them. And then after a quick exchange of words, Herman Barker pulls out a 32 caliber cult automatic pistol, shoots Osborne twice in the chest and kills him. Damn. Thanks of just escalated to cop killing. cold automatic pistol shoots Osborne twice in the chest and kills him. Damn, thanks. I've just escalated to cop killing in August. Herman leaves his girl, Carol, to do a quick job to rob the crystal ice company.

Then on August 28th, Herman and two accomplices break in, crack the safe, take $200 and head out. And then as they're driving back home, motorcycle patrolman, Joseph Earl Marshall and his partner Frank Bush Bush see a car speeding by just after one a.m. Marshall approaches the car. Herman quickly shoots him three times in the head was his 32 cult second copies killed in not much time and her Herman Barker's cold blood of son of a bitch. Bush starts shooting.

There's a gun fight and apparently officer Bush was one hell of a shot because he shot Herman and both of Herman's criminal associates. Herman was hitting the lower chest, starts bleeding out pretty badly. The trio, the trio managed to drive away but quickly crashed into a burger joint and then days Herman opened the door, falls flat on his face, somehow manages to get back on his feet one last time. Can barely breathe as his blood is pulling in his throat from the, from the tunnel, bushes bullet, he'd board through his chest. Everything's starting to fade to black. He staggers a short distance away from the car to the southeast corner of the intersection.

Nose, this is going to be the end of the line for him. He's easy. He's going to bleed out or he's going to get caught and bandaged up just to fry later in the electric chair for killing two cops. So he places his coat against his right temple allegedly yelled out, forgive me, ma. And he squeezed the trigger. So then Herman Barker, George and Ari's first born son, dead at the age of 33.

Ari's marriage with George now, this 1928 is on the rocks. She and George are grieving the loss of their oldest boy. Her oldest son's dead, her other three sons are still in prison. She starts to drink away her troubles. Starts hitting the, the illegal speakers, he's around town with their girlfriends, you know, drinking, carrying on with known criminals around Tulsa during the height of prohibition. And this, this pushes George over the edge. He's, he's had enough. He's tired of, you know, already never punishing the boys being pushed around. So he packs his bags and, uh, and he heads back to, to web city just outside of joplin and he would never speak

to r.a. again. George would live another 13 years dying in his home on February 8th, 1941 of our Terry arterioschlerosis, a heartening of the arteries and chronic. It's myocarditis, myocarditis, basically hit a weak heart and it gave out on it. Check this out. He would be the only member of the immediate family to die of natural causes. That is crazy. Ma and all four sons would die from bullet wounds.

That's fucking hardcore. Okay. Now back to the years following George leaving Ari. In 1930, Fred gets a new cellmate. It can't be state penitentiary. Alvin Creepy Carpus. And they quickly become friends. Creepy, man. What a terribly unflattering nickname. I gotta say, I feel like that might be my nickname, if I were an old timey gangster. That old Creepy Cummins, stay away from him, see? He's dead in the eyes, I tell ya. The boy's used to call him Big Head, a bolder noggin, but creepy Cummins just seems to

suit him better. That stare of his gives me the heebie-jeebies. It's always talking about clean weens. Always talking about putting things in your lunchbox. Ugh. Well, when Barker's released 1931, he gives Carpus his contact information, tells him to join him when he gets out, and then Alvin Creepy Carpus. Uh, he will do that. And do you remember him by the way that his name? It sounds familiar because we've talked about him before. He showed up in the Charles Manson

Suck way back in the Suck catalog. Carpus was the guy who taught Charles Manson how to play the guitar when they were briefly incarcerated together in Alcatraz. How crazy is that? And if you recall, also from the Manson's in suck, you know, man's within use his guitar plane to find his followers, the people who would become the man's and family, his guitar plane would also put him in touch with Dennis Willen drummer Dennis Wilson, drummer for the Beach Boys. And then he'd use Dennis's contacts to try and get a record deal. And when he was rejected from the music business and didn't get his deal, his rage over that led to the lobby and lobbyanka and Tate murders.

Man, crazy butterfly effect, ladies and gentlemen, crazy shit. Well, on March 2nd, 1931, Carpus is released, makes his way to Ma Barker's house. First, though, he stops to see Herman's widow, Carol, who he knew through mutual friend, fellow gangster and future Barker Carpus gang member Lawrence DeVol. They have a little fling and then Carpis would later end up marrying her niece Dorothy Ellen's Flaming. Man, that's so fucked up. These guys were such a trashy bunch. Why do people do shit like that? Like date one woman and then later marry that woman's niece. It's so awkward. Expand your social circle. There's a lot of people in the world. Right? You don't have to bang your way through one family tree

Why why are you adding the extra drama to your life? Yeah, I don't understand it after creepy's release Fred and Alvin form what would become known as the Barker Carp is gang and then the rest of this timeline will follow their exploits exploits my god on May 31st 1931 blacks jewelry store and Henrietta Oklahoma's robbed, 5,000 jewelry, 300 cash stolen. On June 10th, Alvin Alvin Carpiss, using the alias George Heller, Dorothy Ellen Slamon, Fred Barker, his girlfriend Joanne Scott, Sam Coker, and Joe Howard are all arrested for

the crime. Fred's role is determined to be minimal and he only spends a few months imprisoned this time around. And then on September 11th, 1931, Carpis is sentenced to four years. So he gets a little, his role is determined to be much longer and he gets a more jail time. Dorothy returns to stolen goods and gets paroled. And then on September 21st, 1931, Fred and another man breaking into a Chevy dealership, a police officer, a Lysha Hagler catches him in the act.

Fred shoots and injures him and then he dies on October 21, 1931. Another cop killed the only officer to die in the job in Barry County, Missouri. Uh, James Langley and Rudolph Parker are arrested and convicted of this crime. And it wasn't until 1971 when Carpenter's would publish his autobiography that Fred Barker would be identified as Heggler's real killer. Well, on September 26, 1931, Dorothy and Carpors get married and monot Missouri. Dorothy's aunt is the maid of honor, and then all three of them go on the honeymoon together and share a bit.

I have no idea, the aunt even attended the wedding. Let alone was the maid of honor. It seems possible that with these dirtbacks, uh, 3 a.m. October 7, 1931, the gang breaks into the people's bank and mountain view, Missouri. They'd hit out and waited until 9 a.m. or they would hide out and wait until 9 a.m. when two workers would arrive and then Carpice and another member would use guns to force their way into the safe and they would net 14,000 cash and securities and it was Alvin Carpice's first daylight robbery.

And then Fred and Alvin breaking to CC McCallans clothing store on December 17th, steal $2,000 with merchandise. December 19th, they pick up a hitchhiker named Robert Gross who noticed the stolen clothing that they'd taken in a car. He telephoned the police, sheriff Roy C Kelly with an approach Fred now and about the stolen goods and Fred would shoot Kelly and kill him instantly. Man, these barker boys had zero problem. No qualms at all about killing patrolmen.

And I feel like some of the blame there falls on Ma's will. I'm guessing these killings didn't bother her one bit. You know, her oldest son, Herman, was killed by cop. You know, these slanes may in fact have delighted her. That's just speculation, but I feel feels real to me. The killing of Sheriff Kelly brings the gang a new level of heat. 1200 is offered for the capture of Alvin Carpice and Fred Barker and retaliation for the murder of the sheriff.

I know that doesn't sound like much, but 1200 and 1931 is more like 20,000 in today's dollars, 18, 20,000. Law enforcement knew that Alvin was married to Dorothy. They watch her like a hawk, and he wouldn't see her again for four years. Her aunt was secretly delighted. When he did see her, he finally gives her $500 to take a

secretarial course and file for divorce. Ari Ma, Kate Barker, also put on a wanted poster for a reward of $100. Little over $1,500 in today's dollars. This is the only time she'd ever be on a wanted poster. And what's funny about it is she didn't actually have a criminal record. She would never have a criminal record, not in her whole life. She was wanted solely in connection, you know, to her son's Fred and Alvin Carpitz. To her son, excuse me, Fred and then Alvin Carpitz.

Who was kind of like a son during while he was in the gang, he would say later. And now let's take a second to talk about an awesome new sponsor. I'm very excited about a few weeks ago. Queen of the suck Lindsey and I were talking about dream sponsors for time stuck and the one we wanted the most I'm not shitting you is today's sponsor time suck is brought to you by the great courses plus are you familiar with this fantastic companion to time suck. You know I try to grab as much knowledge as I can for the topic each week.

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description or you can push the great courses button on the sponsor page of the time suck or app or website. Just just do it. You're going to be so happy. I promise you. Okay. No more interruptions, but that last one was a great one. I so love that company. After the murder of Sheriff Kelly Ma and the Barker Carp is the Barker Carp is getting flee Oklahoma. They arrive in Joplin immediately go to their friend Herb Defi is his name. Another terrible nickname. Defi farmers, they go to Defi farmers house. Farmer was the Barker's friend of neighbor when they lived in Joplin, we have said he had a lot of contacts around the country.

He could help him out, you know, help hide them. And one of these contacts leads the gang up to West, uh, St. Paul, Minnesota and why St. Paul, well, this is pretty fascinating. Uh, let's, let's talk about Minnesota's strange early 20th century relationship with gangsters. Uh, a man named John J. O'Connor joined the St. Paul Police Department around 1880, served on the force until June 1st, 1900 when the new mayor elected appointed him as chief of police. And he was publicly heralded at the time as a champion of truth and justice.

And he was privately crooked as shit. He was a dirty bird. He did bring an end to a big crime wave that had plagued St. Paul, but he did sell by, by taking massive bribes from criminals around the country. Behind the scenes, he and his brother Richard quietly put together a plan where criminals could come to St. Paul, pay them a bribe, and then stay and not be bothered by law enforcement just as long as they didn't commit any crimes within city limits. Go 40 miles away and to rob whoever you want.

Just don't do it here. St. Paul would be a safe haven for early 20th century gangsters. It would be known among the underworld as a sanctuary city. And O'Connor's plan became known as the layover agreement. And yeah, it allowed criminals to stay in the city under three conditions total, that to check in with police upon their arrival, agree as I said to pay brides to city officials and then commit no major crimes in the city of St. Paul and this arrangement lasted for almost 40 years finally ending when rampant corruption forced crusading local citizens in the federal

government to step in a man named William ready Griffin was the first keeper of O'Connor's you know saloon and system or or I'm sorry, system, not saloon. Maybe his nickname came from having a ready dog like Wayne. I have no evidence of that being true. Also have no evidence of it being not true. Anyway, if you're arriving in town, meeting with the police criminals would have to stop in and check in with Griffin, with ready Griffin at the hotel Savoy in downtown St.

Paul. When Griffin would die in 1913, a man named Dapper Dan Hogan would take over. And that's who the barkers would meet John Dillinger, my barker, her boys, babyface Nelson, Alvin Carpitz, others, they'd all come to meet Dapper Dan. All consider St. Paul to be a safe haven. Dapper Dan's Green Lantern Saloon on Wabashaw Street became a sort of clubhouse for these gangsters where they stayed in St. Paul. The original building doesn't exist any longer, but there is a Green Lantern Saloon at 229 Sixth they stayed in St. Paul. The original billy doesn't exist any longer, but there is a Greenlander in saloon at 229 Sixth Street east in St. Paul that claims to carry on this legacy according to their website. So in 1931, the Barker Carpers gang, they head to

this haven. They called themselves as the Anderson's. They say that their musicians who have just come to play as part of an orchestra that was performing at resorts and lakes around the Twin Cities of Minneapolis St. Paul. They often carry around violin cases. I think this is interesting. These cases just contain their guns. That's pretty darkly cool carrying guns around a violin cases. Alvin meets a 16 year old girl named Dolores Delaney at the Green Lantern, speak easy and is immediately taken with her.

She's the sister of one of the criminal underworld members there, Rat Riley. That's a fucking scary nickname, Rat Riley, who is a bartender at the Green Lantern, and Riley had a rule that every guy wants to make her, but we've got a rule, this is a quote, nobody gets in her pants until she's 17. I love that he has that rule just out there. All right, I know she's cute, but not nothing in her pants

till she's 17. Play with her Tataas if you must, but nothing below the belt. But Alvin and Dolores, they become an item anyway, and they actually would have a son together, Raymond Alvin Carpus in 1935. Old creepy Carpus, man, he clearly loves some danger. You know, he gets out of prison that last time, immediately bangs the widow of Herman Barker. That could have backed by her dog, you know, that could have pissed off the family. Then he shacks up with her niece, which also could have pissed off the Barker boys. Then he falls for the 16 year old sister of the Green Lanterns bartender and, you know, a big crime player in St. Paul. Riss pissing off the people, Riss, you know, upsetting the people who are hiding them in this cop killing gang in St. Paul. He just

he just was immune to playing it safe. And yet strangely, he would live by far the longest of all of them. December, December 29, 1931, Alvin, Fred and four other gang members get right to work, making money up north, robbing a drug store and hardware store and pie in River, Minnesota. January 5, 1932, the gang hits Cambridge, Minnesota, steal a four door Buick, ransacked the whole town. That's a quote from out of the ransacked the whole town. So make of that what you will, they netted about $3,000.

March 29th, 1932, the gang pulls off their biggest heist so far, they hit the North American branch of the Northwestern National Bank at one, two, two, three Northwest and Avenue Minneapolis. So they don't, they don't go very far out of the safe haven this time. And the take was $75,000 in cash, $6,500 in change, and $185,000 in bonds. And that total of $266,500 is worth roughly $4.5 million in today's dollars. And $6,500 and change. How heavy was that?

That's, that's 650 rolls of quarters. Yeah, that's 3,250 rolls and nickels, 6500 penny rolls. Ah, seems like a lot of change to carry around. Seems like you can be just happy with the rest of it. But anyway, the gang doesn't enjoy their loot and st. Paul for long. Short time after this, a neighbor opens a copy of True Detective Magazine. She's a wanted photo of the boys and retaliation for the murder of Sheriff Kelly.

The neighbor sneaks next door, writes a license plate number down, drives down to the police station, reports the boys to chief inspector James P. Crumbly. And then, you know, James P. Crumbly calls Harry Sawyer, who's managing the Green Lantern at the time, tells the boys they have to get out of town. So not even, not even St. Paul can openly offer cop killers a place to stay. You know, they'll help them get out of town, but they're not going to let them stick around. Well the boys blame Ma's boyfriend at the time, Arthur W. Dunlop, guy she started dating

after she left her dad. A guy the boys would refer to as the old bastard, not much is known about Arthur, but he must have been crazy. Why would you date someone who has four sons who are all either in prison for serious crimes, including involvement in the murder of law enforcement officers or out of prison committing arm robberies or worse? Some people just truly seem to have death wishes. They just have to play with fire until it eventually just burns them to the ground.

Well, Marvel reluctantly agrees with the boys' assessment that Dunlop probably ran them out. death wishes uh... they just have to play with fire until eventually just burns them to the ground well model luckily greased with the boys assessment that don not probably read them out even though he didn't uh... we now know it's a neighbor and then on april twenty-five nineteen thirty to the body of don't know up is found in webster was constantly shot several times you know damn well the poor bastard

you know sincerely played his innocence and vane where they blasted but you know i don't feel bad for him. He, he, he could have gotten out. And supposedly old Bastard was, he was, he was just a guy again who seemed to really have a death wish. He was, he would get a bit rough with Ma from time to time. That's, that's not smart.

He would mooch off the loot, her sons, you know, would, would, would give her also not smart. He was known to get malsy when he drank, which was often and the, and the boys hated him. You know, he'd been along for the gang's ride for over two years by the time he's killed. You know, what he got himself into? He had plenty of time to get out, but he didn't, you know, he may not have ratted him out, but he did get himself killed in the way.

After leaving St. Paul, Ma and the boys would then go to Kansas City, Missouri to lay low for a little while. Pretty soon after a rival though, they hit the town one night and end up at the bar at the Pickwick Hotel, which has since been transformed into Pickwick Plaza, a $65 million luxury apartment restoration project, if you're a Kansas City sucker. Well, one night in 1932, the Barker boys would have some drinks in this hotel and then getting to an argument with future US President. An older fellow sitting by himself at a table sees the Barker boys and Alvin Carpers come

in, motions for them to come join him, buys them around the table sees the bark boys and Alvin Carpers come in motions for them to come join him buys them around the drinks and This man and Alvin would end up talking for hours Their conversation would make Fred nervous. We would sit at the bar and watch him After a while Alvin and the man you know they're pretty well plastered and then they started to argue about politics And at one point the man stares at his drink and says young man You don't know a thing about politics to which Al replies, you don't know who I know in politics. Then things start to get heated. It looks like there could be something like a confrontation.

Fred grabs Alvin by the arm, leads him out of the bar, back home. Luckily nothing worse happened like, you know, Alvin killing this guy. You know, they killed Kossi for, they just killed my bar, his boyfriend. What would another murder beat of them? And it is a good thing they didn't kill him because this new drinking buddy of Alvins was none other than Judge Harry S. Truman, who would in 1945 of course become president. Harry S. Truman go on after the war to form the CIA amongst many other things, you know, that organization that's led to so many suck worthy topics such as Project MK Ultra,

you know, you know, the CIA is possible involvement in the assassination of JFK, Martin Luther King, Jr., CIA working with Pablo Escobar and the cocaine smuggling business, so much more. On June 17th, 1932, the gang hits the Citizens National Bank in Fort Scott, Kansas, and they end up having to improvise a bit to escape capture and employ trips to silent alarm. The gang here sirens in the distance and they end up taking a few girls who were there at the bank as hostages and they make the girls stand on the running boards of the car. They're getaway car as they speed away. No shots are fired because police didn't want to risk hitting the girls. And then once the gang was clear of the cops,

they released the girls. Their take was 47,000, almost 800 grand in today's dollars. And those poor girls happen to stand outside the car and be used as human shields. That has to be arguably possibly the least fun way to travel as a human shield. Like, I don't like riding the bus. Like, I used to get a car sick a lot as a kid and sometimes I feel that old notch and just creep back when I'm on a bus.

But I would way rather ride a bus, even a shitty bus, than travel as a human shield. Like, what if there was a really cheap fare option listed on flights? Like, like, maybe the ticket was $1,200, you know, for first class, 600 for main cabin with a chance of an upgrade, $450 for economy, non-refundable ticket, but only like $40 if you're willing to fly as a human shield. You know, they throw a couple seats out on the wing, give you a little mask. I'm still not going to buy that ticket.

What the hell are those people doing out there on the wing? Those are human shields. On July 25th, 1932, the gang hits cloud County Bank in Concordia, Kansas. This goes off smoothly, take is over 250 grand, over four million dollars in today's spending power. These guys are making a lot of money. On August 18th, 1932, the gang hit second national bank in Boloie, Wisconsin. There they order bank president B. P. Eldred to open the vault. First, he refuses and they pissed a weapon into submission.

Total take on this robbery is 50 grand. Man, they all pissed a weapon. You don't hear about that a lot anymore. Man, if you really hated somebody, if someone was really annoying you, how satisfying would it feel to piss to with them? That's to be a good feel. September 1st, they hit the first national bank of a flondro, flondro, another little town, I guess I miss looking up, that I thought I could nail.

Now I question, flandros, South Dakota. They snuck in dresses, farmers, this time not to arouse unwanted suspicion. And they take a little bit. They take $7,400 in cash, $2,600 in bonds. September 10th, 1932, Doc Barker is paroled from the Oklahoma State Penitentiary and McAllister, where he'd been serving that life sentence for that shooting death of the night watchman. Thomas J. Cheryl, member back in 1921, he's released on the condition that he never is to set foot in Oklahoma again. He does leave Oklahoma. He also immediately joins up with the Barca Carpors Kang again with

his brother, his brother and his mom gets right back to, to be in a criminal. September 23rd, two weeks after being released, doc in the gang hit the state bank and trust in Redwood Falls, Minnesota. They again take women as hostages, making them again stand on the running boards to use them as human shields on the sides of the car again Worst the worst way to travel like if Uber ever offers a human shield discount fair. Don't take it You know you either pay the non human shield fair or you walk a few miles out of town. They let the women go They then throw thumbtacks across the road, no other prevent others from following them. These guys are fucking pros, man.

Several pursuers do end up with flat tires. The gang makes a clean break. They get away with over 30 grand in cash. Another 4,000 travelers, travelers checks over $600,000 worth of money today. A week later on September 30th, they hit up Citizens National Bank across the Red River and Wapatin North Dakota to take again, more women to stand on the running boards becoming their thing now. But this time, one of the women, Ms. Stock, does get shot at and the bullet breaks your legs. Law enforcement, they've had it with this.

I guess just going to go ahead and start shooting now. When they pull over, Alvin gave the woman a quarter grain of morphine interlake and then told her, don't blame us Blame that trigger happy bastard with the rifle. What an asshole don't blame me Hey, look all I did was kidnapped you a gunpoint and making stand outside our car as we drove away at a high speed while the cops shot at us I'm just I was just doing my job lady. Sheesh Bad day for the cop to man. How was your day, honey? Not good.

Not good. Shot a woman. What did she do? She picked a bad way to travel. She picked a bad way to get across town. Never, never travel. It was a human shield, Martha, not ever. After the shootout was police, the car is shot up and barely running.

The gang is attempting to leave town. As they're attempting, they notice an old Essex sedan near the road. They ask the farmer in the yard if it'll run. He says, yes, looks at all the bullet holes in their car and asks, what's this all about? Alvin replies, we just robbed the bank in Wapatin. And we need that car to get out of here fast. We're taking yours and leaving ours and we'll give you some money to square it. That's got to cool in a way that he's like, you know, he's still still on the bank. But when it comes to the farmer, he's like, yeah, give me some money. As devol starts pulling money out of the bag to give it to him, the old man smiles and says,

so you're out the bank, did you? Well, I don't care. All the banks ever do is four clothes on us, farmers went back inside, brought out the keys and they sped away. This really illustrates the public perception of bank robbers during the depression. I feel like farmers, you know, losing their farms and homes to the banks left and right homeowners across the country are losing their assets to the banks. Almost everyone's losing their assets, but the bank's, you know, they're still standing. They seem to be doing fine. Many of them, some of them are getting rich gathering out these properties and a lot of

people, you know, would think, well, fuck these banks. Good for those boys. Take a little back from the banks. Take a little back from the government. It's not, you know, doing shit to help us, you know, this actively fucking up our lives. And I do think that attitude is part of what allowed a lot of these gangs to have the success and the long runs that they did, right? The reward money was enticing, but a lot of people just did not want to turn them in because they were viewed kind of as, you know, folk heroes by a lot of people.

December 16, 1932, the gang would participate in their bloodiest robbery to date. Their target was the third Northwestern Bank in Minnesota. Someone hit one of those silent alarms again. They're leaving the bank. The gang opens fire with machine guns. Two police officers are killed in the subsequent shootouts along with the bystander. Man, more cops can kill the bystander got killed for quote looking at fret too long my god that take this time was 22,000 cash 100,000 in securities over two million in today's dollars and they don't slow down the robin. I feel like I feel like by this

point they can't possibly justify needy more money to keep robbing. They've taken the equivalent of around 10 million so far in a short amount of time. And they still have so much robbing ahead of them. On December 18, 1932, a member of the gang, Lawrence DeVal, the guy who introduced creepy carpissed to Herman Barker's widow, is arrested after complaints about a loud party, bring police to their apartment. Upon entering, they see cash wrappers that say third North Western bank, as well as $10,000 in stolen securities and he gets arrested. After his arrest, the gang in Maubarca flee to Reno for some R&R.

Well, DeVol would be charged with the murder of those police officers from the previous bank robbery. He'd be sentenced to life in prison. He'd actually be able to get himself out. He'd act up and get himself transferred to the St. Peter hospital for criminally insane, and he would break out of that place in 1936. So he didn't stay very long as far as being incarcerated after getting that life sentence. Barely a month though, after busting out, he would get into a shootout with police and get himself killed. He would take nine bullets. Reno was a good change of pace for the rest of the game. At the time of their lives, apparently there in the late December of 1932,

in January 1933, they'd go to casinos, burninos burned through their loot meet other people in their line of work Yuck it up get hammered The met a young fellow who was also on the lamb there after escaping prison in Illinois To turn down this man had grown up in the same area of Chicago that Alvin had after Alvin's family had moved to Chicago for Monterey All where he's born But they'd never met the two became good friends and Alvin would often eat dinner with him and his wife and kids. When Alvin became ill, his new friend would hook him up with a doctor who performed a ton's electomy on him. This young man that became Alvin's buddy was Lester Joseph Gillis, better known

under his alias Babyface George Nelson. Future public enemy number one for the FBI and a man who'd begun down by the FBI, the following year in 1934. Well, the following month in February of 1933, the gang heads back to the Midwest, in April, creepy carpet drives down to Joplin, the CEO's friend, Herb Farmer, old Defi. Defi has two guests at his house this time,

a man and a woman, they made a carpentry apparently extremely uncomfortable. And their names are Clyde Barrow and girlfriend Bonnie Parker. Bonnie and Clyde, man, showing up. A lot of, a lot of gangster cameos this week. Fastening the little old job to Missouri had so many notorious gangsters crashed inside its city limits. On April 4th, 1933, the gang hits the bank in Fairbury, Nebraska. Something goes wrong. Atomic gun jams as they're leaving and they would end up shooting off an entire round

of 100 bullets, leaving one dead and six wounded in this heist. They take $37,000 in cash, another $39,000 in World War I Liberty bonds this time. After the hall, a man named Jack Fyfeer approaches the Barca Carp is gang about a possible kidnapping for some ransom. They got quite the reputation now. They're getting work offered to him. Criminal works. The target would be William, a ham junior, the president of the Ham Brewing Company, one of the wealthy spent in St. Paul and the gang spent most of May and June kind of, you

know, doing some surveillance on him. They decide that they would nab him outside of his post office or outside of his office, not post office, outside of his office. And they would, you know, kind of throw him into a limousine. They stole a large black limousine for the job. June 15, 1933, Alvin Parks, the limo across the street from the brewery, they get ham into the car, saying it was waiting for him. Once inside, they have him sign four ransom notes that they will disperse to his families to his friends and family

They cover his eyes take him to their hideaway Holding there until June 19th when the ransom is paid and I guess ham was a model prisoner I guess car person particular had come to respect him They released him to Wyoming Minnesota asked him to wait 20 minutes before calling for help and they they got 70,000 in ransom money for him almost 1.2 million worth of dollars today September 6th 1933 Fingerprints are found that the ham rants found on the ham ransom notes using a new technology where scientists would brush the prints with a solution containing silver nitrate Which would react with the sodium chloride

found in the actual prints. The prints were then tracked back to Alvin Carpis and Doc Barker. This was the first time in US history that fingerprint gathering, this particular fingerprint gathering technique, would be used to solve a crime. On August 30, 1933, the gang hit the post office in South St. Paul to steal payroll, but the police show up mid-heist, doc shoots and kills officer Leo Pavlech. Gangster Charles Fitzgerald is also injured during the heist. He's given his share. Promise 10% of future takes as part of the gangster insurance plan until he's healed. Spiced the presence of police, they still take $33,000 valued at over half a million today.

It's September 1933. The gang heads down to Chicago for a large robbery. They're gonna hit a delivery to the Federal Reserve Bank. Look, we'll go for a big payday this time. They buy a car in preparation of this heist from Al Capone's car, guy Joe Bergel. Joe installs bulletproof glass and a hidden panel in the driver's door that could be activated

by a button in the glove box. It was a little portal, you know, when the button was pushed, it would open up so that a gun could be fired through the door. On September 22, 1933, they intercept the Federal Reserve delivery. They grab the money bags, take off in less than three minutes. Everything's going great so far, except they fucked one thing up big time in their preparation, such a silly thing. They forgot to gas up the car Oh, somebody got beat for that one, right?

Well, I guess unless it was one of the headguys then they were just mad but they're not gonna Causing altercation but man they forgot to gas up their fancy new getaway car And they started running out of gas right after the heist they do abandon it had to car jack and new sedan Even worse when they get back to their hideout they open the bags to discover that their loot is nothing but canceled checks. Get the wrong shit. They didn't make a cent off of what they assume was going to be their biggest heist, you know, yet. And they lost a bunch of money, you know, rent and they're hide out and buying that fancy

custom car that they had to abandon. November of 1933 the gang heads to Reno again this time with Harry Sawyer, crying boss and Minneapolis and his wife while their Sawyer explains to the boys that he wants their help with the kidnapping, this time the target would be Edward G. Bremer, president of commercial state bank. Carpice is hesitant to do this job. He knew the Bremer's father was a very close personal friend of FDR. Sawyer assured the gang that his contacts in the St. Paul Police Department would assure it was low risk and that it would be worth the $200,000 they would get in ransom, the equivalent of three million,

you know, today. And then on January 17th, 1934, the gang is ready to take Bremmer. They stole a car in preparation for his kidnapping. Doc opens the driver's side door, Bremmer fights back. He punches him in the face. Ball Z, he's not a model prisoner like Ham was. Doc has to pistol whip him into submission. Another pistol weapon. Ah, must have felt good. Again, then sent out a demand that the $200,000 to be paid and non sequential, non marked five and $10 bills. And then Carpitz would learn he was right to be hesitant about this particular kidnapping. They had taken shit too far. And this particular crime would send the FBI crashing down upon them. January 18,

1943, the headline of the St. Paul Dispatch reads, Edward G. Bremer kidnapped secrecy veils second major seizure here. All of the local papers run with his story around the country. President Roosevelt assures the bremmer's that he would help in any way he could. And he brings up this particular kidnap and he wanted to his famous fireside chats, calling the gang and attack on everything we hold dear federal agents immediately are sent to Minnesota to find bremmer. That's the end of this place being a sanctuary city. Bremer's family pays a $200,000 to free him, but the money has been marked. The serial number of each and every bill has been written

down. The list sent out to every bank in the country. Alvin and Fred have a hunch that the money has been marked. So they make plans to find someone who can launder it. And it had taken 20 long grueling days for them to get this payoff for Alvin and Fred. In 20 days, the hell listened to Brembers constant whining. Now they have the money. They can be rid of him at last. And then they send Carp is to Reno to lawn to the money, but then he is told there that it's untouchable. Due to fingerprints again, Doc, Fred and Alvin are all named as suspects in the killing. Excuse me, in the kidnapping.

So they're all suspects there. Man, so many crimes keep up with this man. It's just a little dizzying, isn't it? This timeline, I'm just like,. It's crime after crime after crime date after date Then in late February in a desperate attempt to avoid capture the boys seek out a man named Dr. Joseph P. Moran Who could supposedly surgically remove one's fingerprints for for 1250 bucks Man, check out how horrific this procedure was and that's crazy that they were willing to try to do this Moran operate on alvin's and Fred's fingers

by first taking rubber bands to reduce the blood flow into their finger dips. So you know, deadens are fingers with tight rubber bands around each finger, then inject cocaine into each fingertip to double the pain. And then uses a scalpel to peel the layers of skin off of their fingertips. Fuck, can you imagine that peeling the skin off

of all 10 of your digits, like the whole from the last knuckle to the tip, just all of that sensitive feel that now on your finger on your hand. It's so sensitive, so many nerve endings, right? It's how we such such important nerve endings, you know, how we are tactile sense, how we, you know, find out how things feel with our fingertips and he cuts the skin off of all of them. You had a paper cut on your fingertip, I have it in fucking hurts. Now imagine the tips of all of your fingers and both your thumbs are essentially just turned into one big paper cut. Oh shit. Well, once he's finished, he manages their fingers. Once the cocaine wears off, the pain is, of course, excruciating. This point of view is smart. I wonder if he left town for a few weeks.

Not good to be, to put two of America's most dangerous homicidal gangsters into an excruciate amount of pain. The pain supposedly nearly drove Fred literally insane. If for him, it didn't even work. His fingertips grew back. But the surgery did work for Alvin. It's all picture of him later in life and he had no fingertips. Neither one of those dudes after the surgery

could feed themselves, shave, et cetera, for several weeks without help. Get some wipe in their asses became a bit of a challenge as well. The gang buried the, the Mark Bills for safe keeping. But then later when they went to dig it up, they realized that water had gotten into the bags and soaked into the money. So now it's all fucking wet, moldy, smart, stained, you know, they dry it out, but it's still stained, not good. The contact gangster and gross point Michigan named Cassius, cash, McDonald's, see if he could wander it and he could for 15% you can do it in Cuba.

It would take a long time. No, after the difficulty of this job and all the heat that's now, you know, being brought on them by the FBI, all the national attention that they decided to lay low for a while, creepy carpests and his girl Dolores had to Cuba. Fred Barker and Ma, they had to lake Weir, Florida, living out of the ailes of the Black Burns and Doc Barker would head to Chicago with his girlfriend. And then on January 8th, 1935, docked Barker would be arrested while hiding out Chicago. Special agent, FBI guy, Earl J Connelly, the Fed who also took down babyface Nelson,

tracked him down, dock attempted to flee, but slipped on a patch of ice. When he was running away, he was on arm, he had left his, his left has gone at home. All he could do was look up and smile sheepishly as one of the agents, some new guy who just recently joined the division of investigation asked him, where's your heater, doc? do is look up and smile sheepishly as one of the agents, some new guy who just recently joined the division of investigation asked him, where's your heater doc? He replied, it's up in the apartment. And then the man replied, you're lucky doc. Ain't that a hell of a play sport.

After all of his tough guys shootouts, Doc doesn't put up much of a fight. He has no weapon. He's, you know, he's taking quietly back at Doc's apartment. Federal agents found lots of weapons and ammunition, including a Tommy gun. Oh, the serial number of the gun was traced. It was proven to have been the Thompson stolen from officer, yeoman's patrol card during the South St. Paul, Mrs. Minnesota robbery. The left officer Leo Pavlak dead. The agents also found a map of Florida with the red circle drawn around Ocala.

The area around Lake Weir, where Fred and Ma were stained, also found, I was a letter from Ma Barker. In the letter she told Doc, all about some alligator locals, alternatively, alternately, called Big Joe, Gator Joe or Old Joe. Fred had gone, had become obsessed with trying to bag this monster, apparently. Gator Joe was estimated to be about 16 feet in length, one of the oldest alligators in the area, who've been seen for years,

the agents would read this letter, you know, and then they're like, great, we'll just go hunting for old Joe as well. Ma and Fred, you know, they were living large down in Florida, Ma loved their cottage, Fred loved fishing. You know, again, his biggest obsession, you know, was trying to catch that three-legged 16-foot alligator, name bow jangles. Just like our three-legged one-eyed hell-hound, profit of them, not praise bow jangles. No, of course it was a dull Joe. Fred would go on

frequent fishing trips, oh, some of his neighbors trying to find this three-legged alligator. When they told him about old Joe, you know, he initially he just got so excited, lit up like a Christmas tree, wanted to be the one to back the beast And this is how he fished for it. He bought a hog From a local farmer killed it then just would drag the hog behind his boat and circle the lake and Wait with his Tommy gun. I love how he goes from fishing to Dragon and dead hog behind a boat in hopes of attracting an alligator to shoot with a machine gun

That is that is the most aggressive form of fishing I've ever heard of. What kind of fish are you doing? You doing some fly fishing? You casting some bobbers off the dock, you doing some trolling? Tommy gunning. Doing some Tommy gunning, actually. Ha! Not familiar with that technique.

What kind of bait do you use when you're Tommy gunning? Night crawlers? Grasshoppers? Spinners? No, I use a hog. Use a big ol' hog. I just drag it around, circles and what way to shoot the alligator Which delighted up with the machine gun. That's insane January 16th 1935 5 30 AM 14 federal agents surround this cottage

In Florida thinking the people in the house intended to come out and surrender Connolly starts Stated for Fred to come out first, but Fred's not gonna come out out. The barkers man, they're not going to go out quietly. That one, they got some guns in the house. Instead of coming out, you know, Connolly gets shot out with the Tommy, Tommy gun appears from the upstairs south west bedroom window. Fred first fires about 50 rounds. It Connolly takes cover behind a tree, agent white returns fire. Fred then rushes downstairs fires from a front door, from the front door with the rifle, uh, white arm with the 351 Winchester Semiotic Rifle returns fire, Connolly fires into

the house with a 30 out six Springfield rifle, machine gun fire, rains back down from the window sporadically from different windows throughout upstairs. And the battle rage for like a little over three hours, uh, with Fred firing sporadically is it to conserve ammunition? The agents concentrate the majority of their fire towards the upstairs Southwest bedroom where most of the shots have been coming from. Finally, about 11 30, uh, the firing ceases after considerable amount of time elapses, commonly asked the cottages caretaker, gentlemen, named Willie Woodbury to attempt to gain entry

and see what the situation was inside. He'd been hired by a mom and stayed in a small outbuild on the property. He didn't like the idea. Yeah, I bet not. But he joked that if they gave him 20 bucks, he'd go check on him for a master. They give him 20 bucks. And he does. He risked being lit up with a Tommy gun, you know, for 20 bucks seems like a shitty way to make that money. But um, but he does it. And he finds both Ma and Fred and the upstairs bedroom daddy sees him off first. She was lying down on the floor in the fetal position barefooted her left side just inside where uh, her left side just inside the door with her back against the closet door. Excuse me. Her hands were

under her face. She had caught three bullets in the chest. One had gone straight through her heart killing her basically instantly. Fred was lying dead, faced down in the middle of the room at the foot of one of the two beds in the room, his body riddled with numerous bullets. Many people appalled when the story breaks that the feds had shot an unarmed woman. You know, not that they know for sure that she was unarmed. I mean, I guess she could have been fired from in there, but it's assumed that she was unarmed and people are not happy. And this is where that narrative of Ma Barker being the ringleader starts.

Hoover, you know, he has the FBI pushed this narrative to the press. And a lot of people think he did so to get the public again back on the FBI side in this investigation and this, you know, in these deaths. If people thought she was not a woman, just overly loyal to her criminal sons, it looks bad for the FBI to shoot her up. However, they can frame her as the criminal mastermind for the entire cop killing bank robbing human shield using kidnapping run for shooting seems more than justified. And his later, you know, autobiography, Alvin Creepy Carpice would write, the idea that Ma was the brains behind our five years of holdups and crimes is strongly

entrenched in North America, in books, kids comics, detective fiction, movies, and for that matter, in every other entertainment outlet, Ma has been described as a genius of crime for so long that nobody will ever believe what she was to us, a simple woman and the mother of Freddie and doc. Ma was always somebody in our lives. She was somebody we looked after and took with us when we moved from city to city, hide out to hide out. Her participation in our careers was limited to one function. Whether she was aware of it or not,

Ma made a nearly foolproof cover for Freddie and me and Doc. When we traveled together, we moved as a mother and three sons. What could look more innocent? Harvey Bailey, another gangster era, bank robber who'd met Ma in numerous times, stated that the old woman couldn't plan breakfast. When we'd sit down to plan a bank job, she'd go into the room and listen to Amos and Andy, or he'll billy music on the radio. After Fred and Ma's death, George Barker, who'd never

finalize his divorce with art. He's due to the government for the estate of his estranged wife and kids and received $1,200, roughly 20,000 today. Uh, in the cottage, the feds found quite a little stash weapon. She may not have been a mastermind, but Ma sure is shit knew what her boys were all about. It didn't seem to condemn their lifestyle one bit. Based on her own childhood fastness, when Jesse James and his gang, she knew damn well who they were.

And she knew what, uh, she added to their organization. She may not have been the leader, but she was a de facto member of the Barker's Carp, Barker, Carp is getting for sure. Yeah, and the cottage law enforcement found two 1921 Tommy guns with serial numbers filed off, a fully loaded 50 cartridge drum for the Tommy gun. They found another empty 50 cartridge drum, a hundred cartridge drum still with 70 bullets in it. They found a stock for another Tommy gun, a Colt 45 pistol, damaged by a bullet hit in the handle. They found another undamaged Colt 45 automatic pistol,

nine separate 45 automatic pistol clips, one 380 automatic Colt pistol, five 380 automatic pistol clips, one browning 12 gauge automatic shotgun, one remington 12 gauge pump shotgun, a winchester 33 caliber lever action rifle missing serial number, quite the cash for one man in his, in his in his own old mama. January 20th, 1935 Alvin Carpiss is now the only core member of the Barker Carpiss gang who is still both alive and free. He's in the Atlantic city where he nearly gets arrested does, does get into a gun fight with some cops. His girl Dolores gets shot in the leg and captured he nearly gets arrested and does does get into a gun fight with some cops.

His girl Dolores gets shot in the leg and captured. Carpenter and his associate escapes till a 1934 Pontiac special in Skip Town and then near Allen Town, Pennsylvania as they're driving away. They end up driving behind a 1934 playments that has a doctor's emblem on the rear bumper and they pull alongside and yellow to driver. Stay police. We want to talk to you when the driver pulls over Carpenter's associate quickly jumps in, commandeers the car, makes the driver move over to the passenger seat, follows behind and then Carpenter follows behind

this Pontiac and tell the come to the side of the road. Alvin Parks leaves the Pontiac running, jumps into the Plymouth and they drive away. Because he knows when cops would find the Pontiac, they would think that Alvin and Harry just ran out of gas. This associate is somewhere on foot. Well, the man whom they named Carjack, Dr. Horus Hunsicker, turned out to be a pretty pleasant fellow who told him he'd been visiting his parents and was returning to Allentown Hospital.

He set up, he was gone for a few hours, no one would miss him. And seemed to actually enjoy this sudden adventure. And I guess they got along and they threw old buddies. Most of because Carpiss didn't actually tell them why they were really running and who they really were. The doctor emblems on the bumpers works like a charm. They ran into a police roadblock on the way towards Al-Tuna, but when the cops saw the doctor's emblems,

they just get waved on through. Finally, they reach Ohio. They stop at the Grange Hall in Wadsworth, Ohio, where they take Dr. Hunsicker into the basement, time up near a furnace so they'll stay warm. By this time he realized who they were and was afraid they were going to kill him. But they told him not to worry. It's like a $50 bill in his breast pocket so he had the money to return home when somebody

freed him. November 7th, 1935, 1935, Carpis is back at it. He's assembled a new gang and Rob is a mail truck for 72,000 cash, 53,000 bonds, the equivalent of over $2 million in today's dollars. Man, just right back at it. September 1935, Carp is commits what will be his last robbery. He has new gang robber mail train, expecting to get 180,000, but they had the day wrong and they ended up only getting 34,000 cash, a little over 12,000 bonds. And unbeknownst to him, the feds are now

closes in on him. May 1, 1936, a team of federal agents surrounds the apartment that Alvin Carp is standing in New Orleans. They bring him out, subdue him, one of the men's shouts, we've got him chief, it's all clear from the corner of his eye. Alvin then sees two men approach who had been waiting in the wings out of sight, even though the narrative of the time would be that they actively arrested him. He recognized them as being FBI director J Edgar Hoover and associate director Clyde Tolson, both to travel to New Orleans to be there for the arrest of public enemy number one. J Edgar Hoover got a suck that dude someday. He was a director. Check this out. He was the director of the FBI and I don't have these numbers wrong from

1924 to 1972 and he didn't step down in 1970. He finally died at the age of 77 Allegedly part of why he stayed in power for damn near 50 years was because even presidents were afraid of him He had dirt on everybody He was also rumored to be the lover of associate director Tulson Makes the story more interesting the two bastards would ride together two and from work. He lunched together worked together vacation together and Hoover died. He left his estate to Tulson. Tulson moved into his home Dude got the Tulsa got the flag from Herbert from Jager Hoover's coffin and his funeral.

And then Jager Hoover also lived his entire life in Washington, DC. What an interesting bio. Anyway, as for Carpitz, he'd spend the next 26 years in prison. From August 1936 to April 1962, he'd be incarcerated in the newly constructed Alcatraz, a place I toured once when visiting San Francisco. He joined the other remaining living member of the Barker Carpiss Gang, Arthur Doc Baker, excuse me, who is already in prison there, serving a life sentence for the kidnapping of Edward Bremer. It served the longest sentence out of any Alcatraz prisoner yet, and as I said before, he

met a young man Charles Manson in Alcatraz. It was briefly in prison there for the Manson family murders. You know, teaches him how to play guitar. And then in 1939, Doc Barker tries to escape from Alcatraz. Of course he did. Man, the Barker boys, they just, they just, uh, man, they just couldn't, they couldn't like just stay there. He couldn't write out, you know, life sense, of course, he couldn't. January 13th, 1939, Barker and fellow inmates Dale Stamphill, Henry Young, Rufus McCain, all attempt to escape the rock.

Henry Young would later say of Barker, he was one of America's most dangerous men. I knew, however, that he was determined and ruthless and that once he started on anything, nothing could stop him but death. I couldn't think of anyone else. I'd rather have with me on a break from Alcatraz. And this is pretty intense man. The four dudes they've been placed in the segregation unit for being troublesome prisoners. Parker and his associates in the segregation unit would saw through four sets of prison bars concealing the daily damage they did for prison inspections with some makeshift putty that came up with. When they finally broke out, they climbed over some high walls. Under the cover of foggy night, they make it down to the beach at the edge of the island. They split up into two pairs, Barker and Stampin' Old Tried to swim out together

towards San Francisco, but were pushed back by the tide. How much for that suck? You actually make it out, undetected, from your cell and alcatraz. America's most secure prison, a new prison. You know, you saw your way out of your cell, and thenraz america's most secure prison a new prison you know you saw your way out of your cell and then you can't swim to the San Francisco shore you know you can see it's right

there i've been on alcatraz uh... and on the island taking pictures of downtown san francisco from the islands and it does feel like you could totally make it uh... but as i as they said on the tour i was on the waters deceptively cold like usually like the fifties degree wise, and you risk hypothermia swimming out there. And the current is deceptively strong. It can be done. It has been done, but only by very experienced, very proficient swimmers with a proper gear.

Doc Barker, you may even tough as dirt, but he wasn't Michael Phelps in a wetsuit. So then they tried to quickly build a raft from bits of wood laying around the beach tie the wood together with strips of cloth from their shirts Hoping they can make a little little makeshift thing to float on before you know Anybody anyone spots them, but then they do get spotted by guard to watch tower when the fog briefly clears The guard orders them to throw their hands up in the air. Doc, of course does not so they open fire on them and And he gets shot in the head and then he was you know recaptured and then die shortly afterwards from his wounds and then the other guys are recaptured and sent to solitary confinement so that's the end of his tail.

So now we just got Carpis left. Everybody else is dead by 1969 when Carpis gets released on parole and gets deported to Canada and he initially has trouble getting to Canadian passport because he didn't have any goddamn fingerprints. Yeah, he had all started to move back in Reno. He settles finally Montreal, publishes his memoirs 1971, and publishes more memoirs in 1980 in Spain,

where he would live, where he had lived since 1973. And then he dies in Spain in 1901 at the age of 72, originally thought to be suicide. Originally thought to be some sleeping pill pills suicide or possibly like like that. He was slipped those by somebody killing him, uh, later rule to be natural causes. Crazy that he caused all that may have became the FBI's public enemy number one and then got to live out his golden years in Spain as a successful, uh, author of sorts. And, uh, yeah, with the last member of the Barker Carp is getting dead. I guess we're done with today's lengthy time suck timeline

Good job soldier you made it back barely So that's the tail of the mob Barker gang man what a what a journey So that's the tale of the mob Barker gang. Man, what a journey. Yeah, at least that's the tale that can be condensed in less than two hours. There's a, but there really actually isn't a lot more meat to it than that

because mod didn't keep a diary, neither did her boys. Carp was the only one to really give an inside account of what happened and he wouldn't do that until many years later and he'd write mostly about, you know, his life and about, you know, his life and about, you know, just details regarding individual crimes he committed with the Barker, Carpest Gang,

but he didn't really dive into like the relationship between Ma and the Barker boys. I did watch an interview he gave before, he died after he was released in prison, long after the Barkers were dead. And he claimed that Ma was just a country bumpkin who liked listening to hillbilly programs on the radio, doing jigsaw puzzles, called her a holy roller.

claim she never even read the newspapers. claim she knew that they were all criminals obviously, but didn't participate at all directly in any of the crimes or killings. And after being released, after all the barkers, you know, been their long dead, I don't know why he would lie about that. I don't know why he would lie about that. I don't know who he'd have to protect. He does seem like a very candid person in the interview overall, just admitting to having no remorse over his crimes. Doesn't consider himself much of a tough guy or that he was much of a tough guy did say, you know, that that others had attributed 14

killings to him over the course of the robberies and he did not admit to that being a sure thing or did not deny it seemed like he was just not admitting it fully because you know you want to incriminate himself. So do I think Ma was a was a mastermind? No, I don't. I know what in this ever puts her again is being present during an actual robbery. She wasn't active in that way. And no criminal whoever encountered the gang ever referenced her as being part of any of the planning, not once, only Hoover and the feds pushed that narrative.

I also don't think she was anything close to some sweet old lady. I don't think she was innocent by any stretch of the imagination. In a way, she did kind of mastermind the crime. She masterminded years before they were committed. When she first glorified previous bank robbers to the point that her sons also glorified them and then enabled them greatly to get going in their criminal careers.

You know, she traveled with them, you know, according to account, she went out and lived it up alongside them and re-knowed other places with other known, you know, criminals. She seemed very comfortable amongst the criminal element and she seemed very happy to spend her share of the blood money. So actual mastermind know, good mom, innocence, that is also no in my book. And now that her tale has been told, it is time for some top five takeaways. Time, suck, tough, five takeaways. Five take away. Number one, the FBI estimated that the Barker Carpice gang stole a total of $1.5 million, which is the equivalent of 28 million in 2018 dollars. That's a lot.

A lot of money. Number two, all four of the Barker boys met a violent death as did my Barker. They might have accumulated some interesting tales during their lives, Two, all four of the Barker boys met a violent death, as did my Barker. They might have accumulated some interesting tales during their lives, but man, they paid a big price for those tales in the end. Number three, creepy carpiss did not meet a violent death. After all, then he got to die as a free man. Chill out in Spain, no less.

But he also did serve the longest sentence anyone ever served in Alcatraz, Alcatraz's history 26 years. So he didn't exactly lead an aspirational life. Number four, highly unlikely that Ma Barker was the active mastermind of the Barker gang. There's no evidence whatsoever that was the case. Much more likely the invention of Jager Hoover to ease public concern over her violent demise, however, she didn't raise four criminals, four for four. You know, one guy, you know, he cleaned up his act, you know, right before the end, but

if he would have lived much longer, who knows if he would have started, you know, committing more crimes himself again. At the very least, enthusiastically enabled her boys as they pursued cop killing bank robbing, human shield using careers as a depression air gangster. So I don't even feel a little bit sad for how she left this world. Number five new info. Remember, Boni M, do you recall that from the Rasputin suck so long ago? Boni M was 70s, Euro, Caribbean, Funk, disco troupe, and they sang that raw, raw Rasputin, Rasputin song. Then they say, raw raw Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin song then they say it Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh Rasputin uh It was a shame how we carry on. Uh-huh.

Your head's moving to that for sure. You can't not move when you hear that. That was a huge hit for them, and they had another hit that involves today's tale called Mob Baker. I'm not sure why they called her Baker instead of Barker, but the song is clearly about Mob Barker and her boys. It's very telling the story Ma Barker and the boys. It's very, you know, like telling the story of their kind of crimes and exploits. And it topped the music sales charts in Germany,

peaked at number two in the UK in 1977 behind only Donna Summers. I feel love. And it was the number one song for the year in Belgium for 1977. So check this shit out. This is Ma Bar Ma Baker. Excuse me by Bony M Baker she knew how to die and that's that's all for today's top five takeaways. Time to suck. Top five takeaways. So the mob marker gang fully sucked. A lot of crime to suck today, but we fit it all in our mouths. I think, man, lots, lots to get through. A lot of info today. Big thanks to the time stock team once again for, you, for helping me crank out these episodes, these big sucks on, in a short time frame, in a short amount of time.

You know, I'll never more than a week to get the info all together, digested, and sent back to you guys, Jesse Dobner, Harmony Velocamp, Reverend Dr. Josh Crel, Alex Dugan, the Biddoxer team, Danger Brain, Eric Radiker, Queen of the Suck Lindsey Cummins. Huge thanks. Once again, this week, you Bojangles Research Department OG Heather Rylander.

We're doing a bang up, shoot him up job on the Ma Barker Suck. I hope she liked it. Hope she enjoys this because this topic was also Heather's idea. Bojangles, Nimrod, Luciferina, all pleased. Luciferina, she loves Cre carpets in the Barker boys. She found him sexy as hell. Covered up next Monday, we're going across the Atlantic, gonna check in with the Knights Templar.

And if I'm saying that wrong right now, I'll figure it out for next week. Maybe it's Templar, maybe it's both. I feel like I look into that a long time ago. I feel like both ways are acceptable. But anyway, you spaces should feel confident that I'm gonna do this topic justice. And according to Ike's psychic Carol Clark,

there's a good chance that I was one of the nights simpler in a previous life. The nights, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna go with Templar, go with the rest of today. The nights Templar was a large organization of devout Christians with a mission to protect European travelers visiting sites in the Holy Land. And they carried out many a brave military operation.

They were wealthy, powerful, mysterious medieval order. They fascinate historians, have for centuries. You know, tales of their financial acumen, their military prowess, their work on behalf of Christianity still circulates throughout the modern culture. After Christian armies in 1099 captured Jerusalem from Muslim control during the Crusades, groups of pilgrims from across Western Europe started visiting the Holy Land. And the Nights Templar organization

were created to protect them from being robbed and killed as they crossed through Muslim controlled territories during their journey. Around 1118, a French knight created a military order along with eight relatives and acquaintances calling themselves the poor fellow soldiers of Christ and the Temple of Solomon, and this morphed into the Knights Templar. The group developed a reputation as fierce fighters during the Crusades driven by religious

fervor and forbidden from retreating unless significantly outnumbered. They built numerous castles and fought in one battles against a lot of times, much larger armies. And their fearless style of fighting became the model for other military orders. And they became incredibly wealthy and powerful at their height, operating outside of the jurisdiction of whatever nation they happened to be in. They were like a nation unto themselves. And the non-combatant members of the order formed as much as 90% of the orders members managed a large economic infrastructure throughout Christian Europe developing innovative financial techniques that were an early form of banking. Really, they kind of built their own corporation, kind of like the world's first multinational

corporation with roughly a thousand fortifications across Europe and the Holy Land. And some people believe they went underground after Pope Clement V dissolved the order in 1312 and that they still exist in some form today. So many mysteries. You know that it is the internet. At the very least, it's gonna be fucking dynamite. Lots of suck on, back to medieval Europe. I'm very excited.

And quick note, before we move on to updates, get help if you're feeling low. Antony Mordaine, Kate Spade, two more high profile of suicides this last week. There are probably others I didn't even hear about. Don't wait to get help. Call 1-800-273-8255. That's 1-800-273-8255. Seven days a week, 24 hours a day. Call that number if you're even remotely entertaining the idea of suicide. Do not stand yourself into Nimrod's butthole. And now it's time for Time Sucker Updates. Rupdates?

Get your time sucker updates. Time Sucker Jimmy Sherman writes in with the Dyerly Needed Pronunciation Update. He's will never go away, because no matter how hard I work, my brain will not cooperate with pronunciations. There's a fairly common word. I've been butchering on a regular basis for decades. Here's the knowledge Jimmy shares saying, dude,

I'm like, I love to hear in the frustration, dude. I've let it slide about five times now. It's not post-chumus, it's poshumus. Yeah, poshumus, as far as like, you know, something like a poshumus publication, poshumus as far as like, you know, something like a poshumus publication of something published after somebody dies. Weird word I know. Go to dictionary.com, click the speaker phone icon after you search this word. It will pronounce this and all of the non-proper nouns you struggle with. And by the way, I do that. I do do that. You guys

just so you know, but hearing it a few times and then memorizing it forever, man, that is a fucking struggle for me. I can listen to it a few times, but also like, who can do that? Who can just be like, oh, okay, that's all I listen to at one time. And now I say that that way forever. If you are good for you, you fucking genius robot. But so hopefully I'm saying it right now, but you guys, you time suckers, go to dictionary.com. If you're struggling and just, yeah,, you put the figure the word. There's a little speaker icon and it's posh. I believe it's how I'm saying it correctly So thank you Jimmy Ben Epstein Sends in the next update. This is an important safety announcement regarding sharks and dicks Says hey, mother sucker hear this. I've been listening for your podcast to your podcast for almost a year now

I still remember when my rock climbing guide Stephen opened my eyes to the suck. Well, I re-listen to your Megalodon episode today, scroll through to the news. Remember your fear of the ocean, especially one involving sharks, the one about getting your dick and ball drift off? That happened to a Brazilian teen yesterday June 4th. I now would not swim in Brazil. Or just letting you know, keep on sucking. By the way, I'm loving

maybe I'm the problem. Well, thank you, Ben. Glad you're enjoying the new album. I actually just spoke to Romana's record today about the vinyl release of maybe I'm the problem this summer. I'm pumped. And yes, tragically, a Brazilian teen did just die. The death I am possibly most afraid of is cock and balls bitten off by what they think to be a tiger shark off the coast of Brazil. Holy shit. Jose or Nestor, they sell a to silver was swimming near the city of receipt when he was attacked by the shark. Yeah, bit is big off, bit is balls off, bit enough of his one of his legs off that they had to amputate it shortly before he died. Died of basically

his heart gave out after all the blood loss and shock and trauma, be careful in the water, careful in the water. Sadly, life guards were in the middle of telling him to come in closer to the shore when he was attacked because they just spotted some sharks in the area he was swimming. Damn it. Next up, an important point raised by Time Sucker Trent Bates about the government's ability to examine our DNA

and use it for various purposes in reference to my opinion about this in last last week, Golden State killer suck. Dear Dr. Reverend time suck fuck. I'm right. You about the DNA crime fighting that you were so enamored by in the Golden State Killer podcast in the edits of the internet section. You were immediately dismissive of concerns about loss of DNA privacy with the old adage of if you have nothing to hide, then it doesn't matter.

What a poor rebuttal. Obviously helping crime enforcement, fine killers is great, just like how domestic spine is great for finding terrorists and Facebook's targeted advertising is great for getting products to consumers. It's the unintended uses that make others and myself worry about this brave new world. We are living in great literary reference. The most immediate fear is that I have is that insurance companies may be able to use information that a far-flung family member has added to a random

website to find medical faults and charge clients more. Maybe I'm paranoid, maybe I've read too many dystopian novels, but I'm not a starry eyed about this technology as you are. Technology doesn't often grow as we think it will. Who would have guessed that Facebook ads could have greatly affected a presidential election back when the site debuted. Also update, in an update, the poem Ozzy Mandeis was written by Percy Shelley, not his wife Mary. Brian Cranston, his Walter White

has a great reading of this poem. Thanks for all the suck, Nimrod's a possible trend. Bates, well thank you Trent, and you raise some great points. Thanks for clearing that up about Aussie Mandeis. Well, I do like the use of DNA in regards to more accurately catching the correct perpetrators of crimes and catching more of them. Yeah, other uses could be terrible for this technology.

And new legislation we needed to protect us, even though it still won't every time somebody will use this stuff, unfortunately for the various kinds of ends, which you just can't avoid. But I'm in the mind of, I don't want to like, not create things that not good on new avenues because people might use it in a bad way.

If it definitely will help things in a good way, it's like, you know, we can't control, it's kind of like that artificial intelligence debate, you know, like, well, how can that be used down the road against us? You know, I feel like we just got to figure that shit out as it comes in a lot of cases because I don't wanna just stop progress

and stop evolution because some bad things might happen. And on the flip side of what you're saying about people getting charged more for medical care because they could use their familial DNA to find out they have significant health problems. Couldn't they also get a lot cheaper care if they don't have a history of genetic illnesses? I mean, it's tricky, right? You know, eventually, I mean, couldn't genetic screening possibly make things more fair for both company and customer where, you know,

it need to be regulated to do so, but just like it's not someone's fault that they have a genetic predisposition to something that's going to require a lot of treatment and can be very expensive to treat, it's also not the company's fault, like who's burden is that for the care? I mean, doctors need to be paid, scientists need to be paid for making advances. I feel like that side of the argument doesn't get brought up where it's like,

yeah, that would suck. You know, if you got charged more because they found out through some genetic screening that you were gonna have certain disease, but it's not just like it's not your fault that you have the disease, it's not anyone else's fault either. It's not the insurance company's fault.

It's not the medical establishment's fault. I don't know, tricky issue. Not sure how to handle it fairly. The insurance whole second world deserves its own suck or several. But thank you for bringing up that point and making me think, making us all think. Cool golden state killer, last one that

I come in from Cameron Hageman. He says, I just remembered that on the Charles Manson episode, you mentioned, Quarkrin state prison. It was hilarious how you pronounced. I bet I pronounced it Quarkrin or Quarkrin. I don't know. Oh no, I said Quarkrin. Oh, just, and then you say it's pronounced Quarkrin.

Well, fuck, who wouldn't know that the way it's spelled? Core Cren. Okay, so anyway, it's Core Cren. I just got married about a month ago and her, my wife's father is a sergeant at Core Cren. The Golden State Killer could very well end up there if he's convicted. Thought that was a cool fact. Anyway, keep sucking. That is cool, Cameron.

Thank you. Thanks to all of you for your messages. You send a need each and every week. Thanks, time suckers. You send a need for each week. Thanks, time suckers. I need a nap. We all did. All right. Have a great week, everyone. Maybe one of these days I will actually make through an episode and pronounce every word correctly. How, you know what? If that happens, I feel like that has to be the last episode of time. So that's when I'm like, all right.

I got it now. Thanks thanks guys have a great life uh... don't don't race for the state line if you're all the bank uh... it's not gonna help you they can keep pursuing out just uh... don't have a bank at all actually uh... focus instead on just uh... continuing to keep on suck Oh, shit.