Tomorrow - 236: Teenagers understand folder systems

Episode Date: September 25, 2021

On this week's Tomorrow, Josh and Ryan debunk the latest myths about Gen Z, recount 2014's Annie remake, throw some love on Eastward, and say disagree about Clive Owen. Did you know that the new iPhone is the newest iPhone Apple has ever made? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, and welcome to tomorrow. I'm your host Josh Wittepolsky today on the podcast. We talk about aliens Roger Dulltree and files. I don't waste one minute. Let's get right into it We're back. Hi, we're back. We're better than ever. It's how I feel. Let me just say I Think on the last podcast I've a lot of video game thoughts which I always do because that's sort of you know where I'm at mentally and physically on the last podcast I Was like I think we were like fuck death loop that game seems stupid and that's for losers

And then I admitted that I was wrong. And then I'll buy it and we'll buy it on sale. I then I started seeing the reviews and people were like, this gives really good. And I bought it, I bought it for the PC. And but I have an interesting, and I have to say, if you're a fan of like BioShock, I feel that I feel that Deathloop is very bioshocky.

Maybe I'm wrong. No, it is. It definitely is. The power is and stuff. Yeah. Just the whole vibe of it. I know it's an arcane. It's arcane or whatever they're called.

And they did all the, they do the dishonored games. Which the first one's really good. I don't, I started the second one and never finish it. I think it was like whatever. I don't care. The first one's really good. I don't I started the second one and never finish it I think it was like whatever I don't care The first one's very very good but anyhow, so I

so I Bought it and I started playing it and I have to say it's a very good very interesting game and it's fun It did crash. I haven't had a game. I haven't had like a proper AAA title crash outright on me for the PC version has some bugs. And I feel like it's much better to play on PC like the game is definitely built for you to be playing it on the PC. But it's buggy as heck and they put out an update which should help smooth out some of the stuttering but I Did okay, okay good hold on I get it I hate to interrupt in the middle of this but I have to pour myself some more tea. I made a pot of tea and

If I don't fill up this glass here, I'm gonna be very upset hold on one second Well, I'm gonna go to the fridge and get my Starbucks from earlier Well, I'm just gonna go to the fridge and get my Starbucks from earlier. You can do it every one. I'm just telling you what I'm doing. I'm telling you where I'm at mentally. You can leave this in. Maybe Tony would like this little behind the scenes look at

how the sausage is made. You know, you're gone now. I'm talking to myself. Sounded like I didn't hear you because I heard a little bit of like you were going to the fridge or something. Yeah, I'm talking to myself. Sounded like I didn't hear you, because I heard a little bit of like you were going to the fridge or something. Yeah, I'm back. I was saying Tony might like this behind the scenes. Look, this is like at the end of the,

it's like at the end of the hills when the background falls down or whatever and they like pull the lights back and like, you know, the producer comes over and like gives them some notes on the scene. Except we're sort of in your garage office in my one bedroom apartment. And that's a lot less cool.

I mean, that's like, to me, that is East Coast, Hills East Coast location, local. It's true. The pandemic, pandemic hills. Yeah, the city pandemic time, pandemic city, USA population too. Anyhow, getting back on topic. So, death loop, I was like, this game's stupid and it's for losers

and it looks like Austin Powers or something. And there is like an Austin Powers edge to some of it, but yeah, there is. I've only played it for a few hours, but I enjoyed it, but it crashed out of me. The first time I played it, I was like getting really into it. I was like two hours in, I was in the first mission and exploring and experimenting

and just seeing what was going on and then just fall on crash like the game has exited and I'm done now. And that was very upsetting and annoying and alarming. But then also the same night, I believe the same night, I decided to write at the end of the night or like maybe the next day I bought Eastward for to write at the end of the night, or maybe the next day, I bought Eastward for my Switch. Because I was like, well, it's available for PC and Switch. I believe there's the only platforms it's on right now, which is that correct or incorrect?

Yeah, that is 100% correct. Yeah. And I was like, well, I bought Deathloop on my PC. Eastward seems like a game. It looks a little bit more casual, a little bit less, obviously less CPU intensive and GPU intensive and I thought this looks like the kind of game I might like to play not in the living room, like I could maybe play it in bed or whatever. So I bought a esword on my switch and but funnily enough, I've been playing it on my television, but let me say this.

I have, I've basically, I played Deathloop for a few hours, I played it the next day, I like pick my game back up, I went through the second mission or whatever. I haven't picked it back up. I am like very, very into Eastward, like as a conceptually and also actually as a game. And I do not, that is not really the kind of game I typically play.

I mean, I will say it's story driven, but it's kind of like an RPG. I don't even know how to describe the game. I'd say it's a cross between like, I'm trying to think of what it's a cross. It's like a cross between like a Zelda game and zombies ate my neighbors. Oh, fun. I haven't played it yet.

Yeah, it's like, okay, I think what I, maybe I haven't read that many reviews. I haven't really read any reviews, but what I have, it's very, there's parts that are very reminiscent of zombies ate my neighbors. In that, it is like a top down, very like cartoonish. It's a beautifully drawn and beautifully animated game,

but it's also an RPG, but it's not like a traditional, it has elements of other RPGs, but it's not really like super, and then there's a game within a game that's really cool. It's like an NES game inside the game, and it's a super, I have to say, I am enjoying it immensely. It's really cool. It's like an NES game inside the game. And it's a super, I have to say, I am enjoying it immensely. It's super interesting. The story is very, very interesting and good. And I don't know what I'm getting into.

Like, I don't know how far into it I am. I played for several hours now. But I cannot recommend it strongly enough. Apparently it was made by like three people total. I mean, I don't know if that's actually just like their marketing stuff or like if it's if it's true. That's true. I mean, Toby Fox is also a one-man team. Oh, well, I mean, if it's actually three people, the quality here is like it's really, like it's really, it's very impressive.

And the music is great. The setting is super interesting. It has a lot of, I mean, I'm definitely, I mean, the writing is excellent. The, I'm not looking because I guess it's got like, oh, some people are kind of like giving bad reviews. I don't know, I haven't played it maybe all the way through. I haven't played it enough to say, you know, if it's a perfect game or anything, but it's very entertaining. It's very good.

I will say, but nobody, as far as I know, has made the comparison to zombies, they're my neighbors, and it's all I can think about. It's one of my favorite, that's one of my favorite games. I believe. I love zombies. I believe, I think it was originally released for the SNES. I want to say like, that was the platform. I have a Genesis first. No, it was released at the same time for NES

and Mega Drive, Genesis. But I played it on, I believe, on my SNASAs some people incorrectly call it. And this game is sort of reminiscent. It's got like a similar art style and it is the same sort of top-down perspective. And it is a lot of like, you're kind of like going exploring these areas, fighting like little monsters and stuff, or even big monsters sometimes. But it's a lady Gaga fam. Yeah, yeah, you're just fighting off rabid lady Gaga fans.

All these gay teenagers. Actually, the game is you just are just fighting gay people throughout the entire game. Just hate crimes. You know, very unusual, but highly enjoyable. Weirdly. No. Yeah. No, it's, but it's so it's a super fun game and, uh,

I don't know, just like the attention to details really great and the music is wonderful and, uh, I don't know, I just think it's interesting because I deathloop, I, I started playing and I was like, this game is like, I'm really, really into this and now I'm going to play this and finish it. And I kind of like have lost, not lost interest, but I'm more interested in Eastward as a, really into this. And now I'm gonna play this and finish it. And I kind of have lost, not lost interest, but I'm more interested in Eastward as a concept. It is very funny that you say that because I played Deathloop for two days straight. Like, John was like, can we watch TV

and I was like, sorry, can't play my game like obsessed. And then I put it down to do other games that I needed to do for work. And haven't picked it back up a time. I picked it up for a couple hours at a time, but I feel like it's definitely a game that you need to get sucked, sucked in. It's not a casual, like, yeah, how far into it are you?

I have killed a few of the visionaries, but I haven't even gotten to that. I mean, I don't think so. I've been killing people, but I don't know who they are or why. I mean, I'm just, you know. Yeah, it is a little directionless where you're like, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be doing next. Yeah.

And there's a lot of information to piece together. I mean, there's a lot going on in the story. It's clearly, there's, yes. And I think that to your point, one of the things that is probably inhibiting more sort of obsessive gaming on it, at least this is how I feel, is there kind of like, there seems to be a very big story.

You seem to be embroiled in some kind of like epic, you know, universal level kind of like thing happening. And they have all of these little pieces of information that are you kind of breadcrumbs leading you to like, the story, but it doesn't really hit you with. I mean, in some ways it's kind of like the way I felt about cyberpunk at the beginning, although I eventually did get kind of hooked on some parts of that story, but it was really like, it took a while before I was like, what am I doing here? Like, what is it? It wasn't even like

tutorial level. It's more like, okay, you've dropped me into this world. I have some vague sense of motivation, though I don't know what it is. I feel like the game is, the game is fucking with me in the sense that I think it's going to like pull the rug out from under me in some way that honestly is a little bit obvious, like a little bit feels a little bit like you learned a lot of stuff from the BioShock series and you learned a lot of stuff from, youShock series and you learned a lot of stuff from, you know, whatever the games that are like, they kind of flip it, you know? They're like, oh, you thought you were doing this,

but you're actually doing that. Yes, what? It's the opposite. I feel like, I feel like, listen, spoiler alert if you haven't played the game, but you're the protagonist in the game. You're this guy, Cole. And like, you kind of air dropped into it, and it's like, you have to, you're this guy Cole, and you're kind of air dropped into it, and it's like, you

have to, you're in this weird, you're on this weird island that is looping the same day, and if you die, you just come back the next day, and everybody here is caught in the loop, and you've got to break the loop. And that's your... Everybody on the island, besides a handful of people, thinks that it's the first day of the loop. Which I mean, I haven't gotten into that story but I clearly haven't gotten all the way in there.

But so you're like this guy and you're like the rebel. That's the way it feels. You're like, okay, I'm on my own and I've got to stop this crazy experiment or whatever. I think what's probably gonna happen is it's gonna be like, this is your experiment, Cole, you created this, like this is idea because like that's revealed like oh Is it okay? All right, all right, well see you there you go

You're gonna hour in then because it's getting revealed to me. No, I'm like I'm very early And I spent a lot of time exploring so I haven't done like I haven't I haven't gone like a hyper fast through the story So yeah, I'm in the second I've gotten to the place where I met the here's where I'm at in the game I've gone through the control Center level and I'm at the third thing now or whatever, here's where I'm at in the game. I've gone through the control center level and I'm at the third thing now or whatever, where it's like you go, first you go explore up damn, up damn, which is this town,

then you go to like this control center where the loop is being controlled or whatever. And then there's a third, and I'm with a third thing, I don't know what it is. It's like, you gotta find some. You can't find my here up damn, I think. What's up damn? Yeah, I'm sure that. I don't know what's up with you. like, you gotta find something. You can put my hair up, Dom, I think. What's up, Dom? Yeah, I don't know, Dom, what's up with you?

I'm sure that's where it comes from. But at any rate, so yeah, I don't know, but it feels like that's the kind of game it is, where it's like, it's going to flip it on you and then you're gonna be like, what? And then you're like an anti-hero or whatever. And whatever. Anyhow.

I have not finished the game, so this is not a spoiler. But my guess is that the rest of the world is in some kind of nuclear apocalypse, and this is the only way to go. Yeah, in one of the trailers, they're like, you don't know what's out there, and I'm like, okay, I see, it's like they're doing this because it's like, you know, the aliens invaded

and destroyed the planet, and this is the day before the alien invasion or something, which is, you know, kind of a cool idea. I hope it's aliens. I hope it's aliens and not just like general apocalypse. Like, yeah. I'm so tired. Nobody ever goes to aliens.

You know, it used to be all the time it was aliens. What's funny is that people are trying for things that are more plausible, and yet, every day, they release more info about you. No, I know. I know aliens are looking a lot more positive. People were like, it used to be in film and TV, you know, the aliens were behind it. And now people like aliens are dumb, that's lame.

Let's make it like climate change. Or, you know, we did a nuclear war, or a, you know, we would unleash a super bug or whatever. You know, and it's like, I think it would be cooler if the thing was aliens, did it? Like aliens are behind it, aliens attacked, aliens destroyed the world. We just don't, can we go somewhere else?

You know, I'm just saying, can we try some, or go back? The thing is, I already living through a climate apocalypse in a pandemic. I'm kind of cool if we do something more fun. We had, we're in it. Yeah, like we're in, we're in the thing now at the end of the movie. We, we are living the end of the movie.

Can you give us something just a little bit more enjoyable to experience from a, from a storytelling perspective? Now, I don't know. Listen, manifest the TV show, which of course, you know, as you know, I was a big manifest. We were the one manifest head. No one wants to talk about it. No one wants to admit it. But I was the first person ever in the fucking world

to be like, everybody should be watching Manifest on NBC, a show about a plane that disappeared and then returned five years later. And the people on the plane had an age, but everybody else had. Anyhow, the show was honestly terrible. I mean, just one of the worst dumbest shows ever. But it was like one of those shows that's like,

I gotta find out what the fucking twist is, you know? It wasn't like lost where lost had at least the first season was very like, you're like, oh, this is an interesting show full of like good actors and it's been intriguing ideas and the mystery is truly seems like I don't know the answer. There's so many ways this could go. Manifest is like, oh, you guys watched Lost and made a show like with a quarter of the budget.

You know, like, and I don't know. I think the, I think you're a cover band. Yeah, kind of, I mean, kind of, they're like, well, they didn't crash land on an island, the island crash landed on them. No, it's something like, no, it's something like, you know, I don't know whatever,

it's like it either a government experiment or it might be aliens. So I, so I watched the first use of manifest, and as everybody knows, I was a big, is there a name for people who first use of manifest. And as everybody knows, I was a big, is there a name for people who are fans of manifest? I was a big stand-offest. That's a manifest stand, okay? I was a member of the stand-offest crew.

And then I watched like an episode of season two or maybe two episodes and it was so bad. And it had been so long since I'd seen it. I was like, not only, because you know, it's like one of those situations where maybe we'd run out of things to watch. And it also, every so often, I'll see a commercial for something on TV.

I mean, this happens very rarely now because I don't watch TV. But I used to be that I would see a, they would like be advertising a show. And I would just for whatever reason I'd get the idea that I was gonna be really into that show. Like, I'm like, this is, and when they're making a conscious choice.

Like, I'm like, that's gonna be my thing is I'm gonna be into, I'm gonna be the manifest guy. You know, and I definitely saw a commercial sword. I'm like, this seems so absurd and kind of bad. I'm like, it's sort of like how I started my Tom Cruise interest and obsession was originally, I was sort of jokingly telling people that Tom Cruise was my favorite actor.

And then, you know, I felt like I need to explore his work more, you know, more deeply. And then, you know, in exploring his work more, you know, yeah, more deeply. And then, you know, in exploring his work, I realized I actually did love Tom Cruise as an actor and I was, he was my favorite actor. But anyhow, there's a reason he's the main character of Hollywood and a colleague. He's so good.

Is that incredibly charming? I don't even care what Tom Cruise does, or who he does it to. I'll be honest with you, he could do whatever he wants to whoever he wants whatever Tom Cruise gets a pass Full stop I was watching the American crime story impeachment because of course I'm a huge monocle in skihead and I It's great. Beanie felt seen my god. Oh my god, Colby Smolder's transcendent, Billy Eikner, man, does not seem like Billy at all.

They're all transformed. The same goes. Tom Cruise of that? Well, I was gonna say, Tom Cruise of that in it, but Clive Owen playing Bill Clinton. Oh, no. I like it. I like it.

I don't like it. I like it. Look, Tom Cruise. He's like staring at her with his full intent. He's no Tom Cruise though. It's Clive Owen is great in the Nick actually. If you haven't watched the Nick, very, very good show, which they're apparently bringing back for third season.

Look, Tom Cruise can say the N word, all right? I'm not allowed to say that. I mean, I can't sign off on that, but I think if there was a committee put together, I think we'd all agree maybe he gets a pass. Maybe not. I don't know. I don't think so. And it is not representative views and opinions. I like the idea. I like the idea. I'm sure I was trying to think of like, what's the worst possible thing I can think of Tom Cruz doing?

And there's a lot of that. Tom Cruz can say, Faggot. I'll give him. No. Well, he can. He probably decided. He probably does. And he probably does and all sorts of anyhow This is great leave this though. I want people to hear I want people to hear how dark it gets on the podcast

Normally that be added it out, but Ryan's leaving it this time. No, I'm leaving it You'll leave it in because I want time. I hope Tom hears this and knows that I'm giving him the thumbs up at all times This 24 seven thumbs up 247 thumbs up to Tom Cruise. Anything you want to do, but anything you want to do, buddy. Anyhow, anyhow, but this sort of how I man, getting back to Manifest, is sort of how my manifest interest began. It was like, I was like, Manifest, that's the show for me. I'm going to be a manifest guy. And then I saw I watched the first season, and I told my dad, I watched one episode of my dad,

he's like, this is stupid, this is crazy. But you could tell he wanted to watch the next episode. Like, he hated it, just the way I was like, this is so dumb and bad. I actually think I haven't inherited this from my father that I like to watch things that sometimes, not always, but I do enjoy watching things that are bad. Like, my father, I'll never forget when I was younger,

maybe when Lauren and I about the time that we started dating. We, I was in Pittsburgh, I think we were like, I was hanging out with Laura, maybe with her brother, John as well, and we got home. Like, I was staying at my parents' house and we got back from doing something kind of late. They was like one in the morning or midnight or something. And my dad was up and he was watching a movie called .com for murder.

Okay. And it's a it's a real movie. Look it up. I'm going to .com. .com. For I can't believe we never talked about this. What I want you to call it murder.com. It's .com for murder.

.com for murder. .com for murder. It's a 2001. It stars. I mean, this cast is first off. The cast is fucking insane. First off, the name of the movie on its own is just like, I can't believe it exists, but it does. And then it stars Natasha Kinsky, Nikolay Cheridan,

Roger Daltry from the Hooh, and Huey Lewis, okay? What? Yeah, okay, now, so here's the crazy thing. So we arrive home, I come in, well I don't know, hey, you guys wanna come in for a few minutes, maybe we were gonna eat some food or something, like raid the refrigerator, I don't know.

And this is, again, I'm an adult, okay? I'm a grown man, I'm visiting my parents for whatever reason I care members of holiday or something. And my dad's there and he's just, the credits are rolling on a film that he's just finished, okay? And he has just finished a film called Dotcom for Murder. And he's like, this is the worst movie I've ever seen in my entire life. It's so bad.

He's like, you've got to watch it. And he re and we started, it was like available on demand. And then we were like, okay, and we started the movie from the beginning. And my dad sat there and watched it for a second time, back-to-back viewings of .com for murder and I have to say It is a fucking terrible movie. It is so cr- And but you know now I don't know. I kind of want to go back I'm looking at the cover art for the DVD which looks so like it was like somebody's like Photoshop

Like they were taking a Photoshop class like a you know continued learning Whatever they call it like when the adults just take classes because they want to learn something like they were taking a Photoshop class, like a continued learning, whatever they call it, when the adults just take classes because they wanna learn something. Learning annex. Yeah, learning annex, whatever they're like, this will be our first Photoshop project

is we're deciding the cover for.com for murder. And that's what it looks like anyhow. But so I think in some, so we watch it and it is very bad. But I think, and I don't remember the plop, but it involves like a house that's like, the house is connected to the internet, and it can kill, and like,

and like maybe- Is the movie's smart house? No, it's like- It's a city channel. Yeah, it's like, I wanna say the house is, you know, I don't know being used to kill people, like maybe because it's like a smart home that's connected to the internet.

I don't remember the plot, but I'm not gonna read it, because I don't wanna get it spoiled, I wanna watch it again, fresh. But I do think I've inherited a little bit from my dad, this tendency to kind of like, enjoy bad things, you know? And I think that our parents definitely shape that stuff. Oh.

Well, I think it taught me to appreciate that within bad things, like things that are considered not good. I think, and this is true of a lot of popular culture now. I mean, John Carpenter, my favorite director, his films were not considered good movies. And to this day, they're not considered good films. They're not considered like high art.

They're not moon light. They're not like important films. I know, they're not like important films. I mean, they're not to most people. To me, they are. But they're also- We're also- Frankly. No, they're not of the moon films, none of them.

But not, they're not moon. The film starring, I want to say Kevin Spacey is a robot in that movie. I should think it's true. Definitely not man in the moon. No, not man in the movie. Not the, whatever the moon movie is from Annie 2014, which is like, I don't know if people know this or not, but they remade Annie in 2014.

And part of the plot of Annie 2014, which is what we call it here, because we have to differentiate for Zelda, because she likes the Annie's from all of the eras. There's Annie 1982, Annie 1998, and Annie 2014. 1998 is Kathy Bates is Miss Hanigan, if you're interested. I know that one the back of the...

Because Rob Marshall directed it. Yes, Rob Marshall directed it, which may have been his first film that he directed. I think it was. And Rob Marshall, who's from Pittsburgh, by the way, fun fact about Rob Marshall. He's done a lot of musicals. But anyhow, getting back on this topic, but John Carpenter's films, oh sorry, wait, any 2014, so let me just make this quick point. I know that I'm digressing in many directions at this point, but I believe Tony can keep up. digressing in many directions at this point, but I believe Tony can keep up. One of the major sort of background plots sort of in the film Annie 2014 is that there

is a Twilight-like movie within the movie called Moon Lake or something, and it's about aliens bringing it back to the alien theme. It's about people from the moon forming, like getting into relationships with people who are like lake creatures maybe, like mer people. It's like moon people and mer people who fuck. It's like what's that movie? What was that Guillermo Dertoro movie?

Oh, the shape of water, which I haven't seen. Yeah, it's like the shape of water mixed with twilight. Oh, I'm gonna just, I wanna go, cause I wanna talk about this for a second, because it's actually one of the brilliant things about this film is that there is, so there's a movie within the movie, and it's called Moon Quake Lake,

sorry, is the name of the film. And they go to a premiere because in the original Annie they go to see a movie. Of course they had to like, you know, like, coke it up for this film. But, you know, because like, Annie 2014 is like all of the Annie things on steroids. But, so anyhow, Moon Quake Lake, they go to the premiere and like the film has a bunch of famous people in it. Like, Mila Kunis and Ashton Kutcher are in it, Rihanna is in it. Uh, and then, but also, and I know this better than anything, there's a fucking Moonquake Lake song on the soundtrack for Annie 2014. And it is like really fucking catchy.

And it is a duet. It is Rihanna. No, it's either, I think it's Sia and Beck duetting. Okay. I just want you to put this all together. Are you putting all this together? Finally. I have to say, finally.

I mean, we've been waiting for it. I think it's Sia. But you know the thing is Sia, kind of sounded like she's ripping off Rihanna. So I'm like, you know what I'm talking about? Like, am I crazy or do Sia sound like she's doing like a Rihanna in person? How much she sings?

Or is it? Well, okay, so you wrote a lot of Rihanna music. Right. And when Sia started coming out with her own music, she copied Rihanna's entire style. Yeah, weird. That's so weird. It's like when Bonnie McKee wrote all those Katy Perry songs and she was like, I'm gonna be a pop star

and it was like, well, you just sound like imitation Katy Perry. So we're good. Yeah, so it's interesting. They don't show, oh, they sound track, sorry. So yeah, Moonquake Lake is Sia and Back, yeah. So anyhow, it's a duet between Sia and Back and it's like detailing the plot of the film Moonquake Lake is Sia and Beck, yeah. So anyhow, it's a duet between Sia and Beck and it's like detailing the plot of the film Moonquake Lake. It's like, honestly, it's brilliant anyhow.

So getting back, so John Carbenter films weren't considered high art, but there are things about them, not only the way that they were made and the reasons they were made and the ideas and them that are both good and bad at the same time. But there's stuff that's like legitimately has gone from being thought of as bad to now being considered good. And this happens all the time.

I mean, honestly, art often takes a while for people in the mainstream to accept it. And so you end up with a lot of gut reactions to things that are in, that are, you know, they're like, you can't, they can't see it because they haven't been there. They're not ready for it. They're not ready for it. They have been conditioned to understand her as bionic. Exactly.

I don't know what that is, but it sounds, that sounds right to me, a de-glance. So yeah, so I was like, I'm going to be a manifest guy and partially maybe driven by my desire to enjoy bad things. And then I watched the first season and then I watched one episode or two episodes of the second season and it was very bad. But then I learned recently, like a few months ago, there was like a manifest, like a panic, a pan, a pan, a panifest. Panifest.

Panifest. Panifest. Panifest. Panifest had, it's like third season and then was canceled or something And then it was like they put it on Netflix and then they're like people are like oh my god I have to see more manifest. I'm manifest It's like manifest is the most popular show in the world Which is the only reason the only reason I fucking promise you is because we ran out of stuff and

Manifest was like well, we got some, we got a show, like some episodes, could we put, could we get it on Netflix? And the people were like, I don't know, what am I gonna want? A manifest? Sure. Oh, it has something in here, like, there's a story of some type,

as a mystery, I guess, sure, that's my favorite show now. People were like, your favorite manifest means, like on BuzzFeed or whatever. I really think that that's what happened with the Queen's Gambit. Not that it is. a pretty good thing. It is. We ran out of stuff. We had like this weird golf and it was like, this is the best.

I watched the Queen's Gambit. It was fine. It wasn't that good. It was like a show. It's two episodes too long. It's like nobody was like nobody like, I mean, actually there was some bad acting in it now that I think of it, but it wasn't like,

it wasn't like, oh my god, I can just done watching. What was like a British, like thing with British people or whatever, it was fine. It was literally just totally fine. But manifest is not just fine. Manifest is subpar. Manifest is garbage, NBC, low budget,

wanna be lost sci-fi. Shit. That's what succeeds on Netflix now. Like when I watch Facebook, I'm like, this is the lowest, it's the lowest common denominator reality television show I still watch it. That's what they want. It's so garbage. It's what the people want Ryan any how the point is So I so then everybody came around to being a being a stand-off fest like me

But of course I'd moved on because I'm so ahead of the curve as usual just so powerfully because I'm so ahead of the curve as usual, just so powerfully, gigantically ahead of the curve that I already dropped. You're up to a new shit that people are gonna get into after the nuclear. I'm currently trying to put together a, I want them to make an actual film version of Moon Quake Lake and that is what I'm working on right now.

Anyhow, but to get to back to my total, my original point, bringing it all the way. Yes, aliens. I think manifest, I want to say, I want to say manifest was really toying with the idea of they were gonna, it was either gonna be like Jesus or aliens. They really kind of the way they did it,

I guess they could have thrown in like some government experiment. Like the government. Yeah, some government experiment gone awry actually. What was great about the leftovers is they left this huge weird question mark about the whole thing that yeah, it wasn't, I mean, it was the leftovers, by the way, the greatest makeover in show history from season one to season three, unbelievable. Do they do four seasons or three? I think three. Three.

Incredible show, certainly the last two seasons, two and three, incredible. But like captivating stuff. First season I was not so into, but anyhow, I think so it's so manifest to bring it all full circle. It got to be either aliens, maybe God, which is what lost it, lame, or, or it's a government government experiment done on sideways. Aliens by far the best option. I have no idea. Anyhow, so what I was saying about it in the bringing a full full circle is that it would be nice a death loop

tapped into something a little bit less obvious than like you know, we did a nuclear war and now the planet is Do you think Kingdom of the crystal skulls the reason we don't get a lot of aliens content? What is that? Is that the Indiana Jones film? Yeah, you just have aliens in it? Yeah, the ending is that like, ET, it's boiler-er-er-er-er. It's boiler-er-er-er-er for an old movie.

Is that like multiple aliens come down from space and they like kill everybody and then the crystal skulls were real alien skulls and they have magical powers. What? It's fucking crazy. Wait. That movie is bonkers.

Wait, the aliens kill everybody? Yeah. Like, like aliens kill everybody? Yeah. Like in the world. Like arc of the covenant style, but it's aliens doing it. And they're like, hello, thank you for bringing us back to your planet or whatever. It's not gonna weird.

Yeah. Sorry. Horrible. Great movie ruined by its ending. What? Yeah. That's nuts. I mean, no, if anything, it sounds like a

mediocre film improved by an incredible ending. You know what? Nowadays, I'd probably agree with you. But at the time, I was thinking, that sounds nuts. You mose on Long Island and I would, I got it. I got it. I got it.

Hold on, hold on. Hold on. Indiana Jones. Yes, that's what I want. I just have a curious hold on hold on hold on Indian Jones yes, that's what I want. I just have to aliens hold on. They're making another one great. Yeah, they are they're making another one Hopefully I remember the crystal skull. Oh my god This is Oh, okay, I got to watch this. I just did a quick breeze through of the, this made a lot of money actually. It made $790 million, I guess it was a hit.

Yeah, but then they didn't do another one for a while because they were like, they're doing one. They're going to do it. Yeah, they're going to do it now. They're going to D age, oh, Shyla Buff's in this. Yeah. They're going to D age everybody for the next one, including Shyla Buff, in this. Yeah. They're gonna Dage everybody for the next one, including Shyla Buff, who's gonna be,

he's gonna be Daged and also he's gonna have his record wiped, his sexual assault record. It's gonna be wiped from the, just clean it right up. They're gonna see GI that right out of existence. It's very impressive. Oh, man, I like how like every, it's like every one of, no, it's a kids like every one of these Hollywood

guys is like, you know, people are like, oh my God, I've fucking loved this. He's so crazy, so weird. It's like, it's like what's his name? Franco, James Franco, people like, oh, James Franco, so cool, he's so weird. And then it's like, oh, he's like a sex guy. He's like a sex past or more or more, more sex past plus. It's strange because I've never felt the urge to be a sex past. I mean, maybe I get drug addiction Well, you don't you're not a fucking you know that you're not a

Extremely sexy film star. I mean you're extremely sexy. I'm gonna be wrong But but but you're not a film. I'm not out here spearfishing with my dick. I mean What's it like but that's the thing is it shouldn't be, it should actually be, you should be, to not be a sex pest. Because everyone's throwing themselves in the house. You should be less, it seems like there'd be fewer need, fewer opportunities or need to be a lesser.

All the boys and all the girls are begging to FUCK. Lessened need to be a sex guy, sex assalter, because you've got like a lot of options, you know, I would imagine. What was he convicted of? Well, he was a sex guy. He was a sex guy. I don't know because I'm like a monster and if anybody even looks at me, I'm like, do they, this is interest? If anybody even glances at me, I'm like, this is a little sex grandma and that's not the picture I saw. Yeah be sex grab, which is like something bad happens if you get wet. Is that? I just want to make sure I'm understanding the entire framing of the sex

grandma. Conceptually. And it sounds pretty good to me. Lady grandma. And that's what the sex grandma. First off, there are Lady Gremlins. And they're very horny.

Very horny, they're like, you know what, they're always wet. Honestly, the Gremlins do seem kinda horny. Is that on purpose? They do, just, my memory of the Gremlins as a species, which I believe they are. I believe they're not. The Gremlins and the minions come off as horny.

The minions definitely are like a weird, it's like a, you know, they're like, they go to I believe they're not. The landlords and the minions come off as horny. The minions definitely are like a weird, it's like, you know, they're like, they go to like sex clubs or whatever. Yeah, they're like, oh yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, which is fine. Not weird, it's not weird, it's not weird. It's their choice, it's their choice. I don't think they're related, right?

It's all concerned. There's a lot of consent, right? They consent nonverbal consent because the minions can't really, they don't really use words. Well, they're really usable though. Yeah. But they help.'t really, they don't really use words. Well, they're doable though. Yeah. But they definitely seem like they would frequent

some sex clubs or dungeons. But the, but the, but the Gremlins just seem like they're just fucking going nuts. They seem like sex pests, actually. The Gremlins. Like they would sexually harass you. Like the rabbits. The rabbits seem like they crossed the line

Like gizmo will definitely like touch you inappropriately when you have an asked for it or consented to it Absolutely, but you might be like with gizmo. You might be like all right. You know what? I'll allow this This is this one time it's a nice guy. I was a nice guy I think it gives me a guy When he's not being like to he whatever gizmo don't really does he puts on like a little suit and goes goes He's like a fighter. He's like, when he's not being like, do he whatever Gisbo normally does, he puts on like a little suit and goes, he's like a fighter, he's a finance. Gisbo just walks out of the floor of the stock exchange. With that little briefcase.

You know what I'm saying? He's just in his free time walking around J. Crow. Yeah, just to just fucking trying to get the perfect, like what's that shirt? Polo, Polo, perfect polo shirt. Little tiny polo shirt for Gizmo. It's got a boat thing this week. All right, what else do we have to talk about?

Maybe we do a quick one this week. Maybe we don't have that much. We're talking about Gizmo in a suit. So maybe it's not. I can throw topics at you. You give me a yes or no. Oh, well, we need to have a new hot new iPhone. Oh, well, yes.

Is that on your list? Yeah. I don't really have an issue about the iPhone. Except that Ray found, I mean, all I have to say is it's the best iPhone ever except for, there's this one camera bug, which, you know what I love? Would I really enjoy to this day?

I truly love seeing, it's the same thing, it's the same like Elon Musk defenders, like the weird dudes jumping in front of, you know, the shotgun blast or whatever. It's the people like Elon Musk defenders like the weird dudes jumping in front of you know the shotgun blast or whatever It's the people who are like You don't I don't know maybe you own shares in Apple or whatever, but they feel like they have to defend Apple Like because they bought into the ecosystem and they don't get that I get that but like but like there

Apple doesn't need they don't need you No Apple Apple's fine. They have't need you. Apple, Apple's fine. They have a lot of scrappy underdog. Apple has technically speaking unlimited money, more money than Jesus. Who actually gave it away. Because it's a famously, I don't give it away. They have more money than God.

They have so much money they can buy. Apple has enough money to buy. They can pay much money they can buy apples enough money to buy. They can pay outright for that again. I would not be shocked. They can buy Microsoft, Netflix, and Tesla, and still have money left over. That's how much money they have in the bank. So I think if somebody has a critique of Apple

you can saddle the fuck down. You can just shut the fuck up, chill out, don't worry about Tim Cook and his crew, they will be all right. It would not kill them to be a little bit, hey, you're a little bit of occasional, hard criticism. And in this case, it's actually like, it's just this thing with the camera.

This is the main thing. Raise like, the phones are great, they're awesome, the cameras are really good. But there's this super annoying thing they do, which is when you're trying to focus on something and you're a bit closer to it, the camera automatically starts switching between a macro lens and like a standard lens.

And what, and it doesn't do it, no way to turn it off. Well, there's no way to turn it off. And it doesn't do it in the to turn it off. Well, there's no way to turn it off. And it doesn't do it in the way that sometimes you see this happening like if you switch a lens and sometimes a phone will kind of readjust and switch to a lens to focus on something. This happens with multi lens cameras, multi lens phones, but there is a subtle little kind of,

oh, okay, it's like gone to a different sort of focal depth or focal length or whatever. On this, it is like, it reframes your picture. It just jumps the shot like to a place where you had it in the middle and now it's not in the middle anymore. The thing you were trying to. Yeah, like a pinch to the side. Yeah. It's a big deal when you're up close. It's really, it's a huge deal. Like as a person who's constantly taking a picture of like a quickly moving kid or a dog, I can tell you that would be very, very annoying. And-

But if you're just holding the phone and you're not resting it on the table while you're framing a shot. Yeah, yeah. You could just shift your finger and then your dog. And the phone's just doing it automatically, just making a guess at where it wants to be, where you think you want to be.

So it seems very annoying and actually kind of like a huge ding because usually it's every camera upgrade for the iPhone. It's like, wow, this is so good. It's so much better than the last one. It's not even as good as the day. I mean, all the iPhone cameras have been better than anything else really on the market.

Right. And I think the qualitatively, the cameras very, very good except there's this thing that actually could make it very annoying to use for a lot of consumers. And I assume maybe I'm wrong, but I assume that when we get to the launch day, which is probably the day this podcast is out, you're going to see people going,

why is this doing this? Like what is this doing? And Apple said, a software fix will fix it. Like they just need a button so you can turn that off. Yeah. I want a button that's like, stop switching, please. Yeah, I, I, I, I, yeah, that's the simple thing is just, you can just, you should be able

to turn it off. You say, don't switch, don't I'm actually switch my thing or whatever. And so, but, you know, that isn't possible. Anyhow, but that's it. Like, they're iPhones, you know, they're, they. Like, their iPhones, you know, they're gonna, they're the greatest iPhone ever created. We're interesting. And speaking of mega corporations from

from Pirates of Silicon Valley, is Microsoft's surface line has been updated. Are you now interested in the duo more than you were before and now that they've fixed everything? No, I bought a fold. I didn't even talk about this. You bought a fold? We talked about that a little bit. Oh yes, you did. I bought a fold. I didn't even talk about this. You bought a fold? We talked about that a little.

Yes, you did. I bought a fold three. I did not that. I returned it five days later. I was like, maybe a week later. I was like, I have no use for this. And I can't figure out why I would want this. And it provides no benefit from what I can tell

in any way, shape or form. So yeah, the surface duo duo I'm even less interested in because it's like, you know what, it's sort of screwed. Yeah, I don't know, it's just like a less interesting device, but also has the same problem, which is like, why would I want this? Like, what am I doing with this? What is the, what is the point of this? I think the point for some people genuinely at this point, pop on, is that it's different than an iPhone and everything looks like an iPhone now. So it's like, well, you want something interesting in your pocket. And I think I come to realize that as much as I liked the flip because it was smaller. And I liked the flip because I miss flipping my phone.

Genuinely, I think most of the novelty was that people were like, oh my God, what is that? Um, genuinely, I think most of the novelty was that people were like, oh my God, what is that? Yes, now I used to have a parlor trick. I think we actually, I think I actually talked about this when the, when the, when the razor, the new razor came out. And I think Ray talked about this when he was, uh, did the first flip review. You know, and I think they've improved a lot of the things that were like, well, this is subpar on all this other stuff. And it's, I can't figure out why I have a flip phone. I think it's the truth is, it's like a, it's like an answer in search of a question.

You know, it's like, guys, we did it. We made the phone fold open. And now we're like, why? For what? What's the reason? Like, I know. What end? No one knows. No one knows.

No one knows, they don't know. They're like two apps next to each other. I'm like, oh, okay. An app on top. Hey, you ever scrolling one app and think, I'd like to be scrolling another app right now. Are you ever sitting down and you wanna watch, it's like with the flip.

It's like, are you ever sitting down, you wanna watch YouTube, but you only wanna watch it on a smaller part of the screen and you don't wanna have to like look down at your phone. You wanna kinda look. And picture and picture. You wanna look good enough. You wanna look across at your phone and like, so you can tilt the screen and you don't want to have to look down at your phone, you want to kind of look picture and picture. You want to look good enough? You want to look across at your phone and like so you can tilt the screen to like, you

know, it's like they have this, you know, all these companies actually we should talk about apples like their whole marketing thing. They always want, they have these like, and I get it, it's aspirational marketing, right? They're like, you're an important busy person and you're doing so Zoom calls, and sometimes you don't have your laptop in front of you, and you're gonna bust this thing out and flip it open, it's gonna sit there, kind of like a little laptop, and you're gonna have your Zoom call, and you're gonna be super productive.

And it's like, that really is such an edge case, and also it's a terrible experience with those little phones, so it's not really a thing that people are gonna do. And then, it's the same thing with Apple. Apple's like on the flip side, they're not like you're so productive. They sort of are with the iPad, they're always like you are an artist.

You are a creator. You are creating. You are making beauty in the world. You're designing. No, no 3D modeling. Hey, you're a furniture designer. You're a painter. You're a YouTube star, you are making films

on your phone and iPad, you are a professional photographer, you are at a shoot, you need to prove some photos, you're doing it on your iPad, you got your pen out, you're making the red X, you're like, not that one, it's just like being a super productive famous, important photographer, you are taking pictures, Billy, Ilish is there, you're doing photos, you guys are reviewing it on the iPad, then you're editing it on the iPad, then you're putting it up on her website on anyhow, this is not you, these are not real people. I understand we wanna have the creator economy

as a thing and there are people as a part of the creator economy and they do need certain types of tools. There are specialty tools for all different jobs and they do. And I'm not being like, classist in this. I'm just simply saying that Apple sells this idea that you get your like, iPad and your pen and you're doing all this like, just, you know, mesmerizing, creative, interesting

fact. They fact like the tools should come before the talent or interest when in fact it's the other way around. If you, if you're sketching a lot and you find that it's hard to keep track of all your drawings, a digital version might be good for you because you can keep track of everything and have them with you all the time and back them up, that makes sense. But if you are learning to draw, do not purchase an iPad because you aspirationally want to be a creative. Right. I mean, if you want, you can do whatever you want. That's how you had to spend your

money. But I just think, sure, of course, the biggest example of this, but I'm telling you, no, don't do that, don't do that. But the biggest, the perfect example of this, and also one of the more embarrassing examples is Apple, I don't know if we even talked about this last week. I can't remember, it's been such a blur, but they did this thing where they were like, it's like Catherine Bigelow directed,

yeah, I think we did talk about, but it's like, you could be a film director. It's like, okay, these don't look like films. And even in the hands of Catherine Biggleo, they don't look like films, which should be more alarming to everybody, because she's a professional. Anyhow, people will find interesting things to do with the devices and no doubt they're very capable of them,

but every company wants to sell you this idea of who you are, you know, so you can buy their product. And I think that very rarely, or in many cases, it's an edge case where those things match up with reality. And it's like, what do you really need to, what am I really doing with my phone right now? Like, I'm not taking Zoom calls on my phone. I'm taking Zoom calls on a computer in my home office.

And then I do take Zoom calls on my phone, it's fine. And I can just swipe up and go to another app. I don't need to be in the Zoom call. Yeah, but I mean, whatever I get it, it's this is what marketing is. And I can't, you know, I'm not gonna, I don't want to sit here and like, shit talk the concept of marketing the entire time

because it's like, that's what it is. You have to sell the thing and how do you sell it? How do you sell something that people already have? You tell people to make them sell, and then you sell them deodorant. Well, but deodorant is, let's me not, deodorant is very good. And they actually, oh, no, actually,

let me talk about deodorant for a second. Okay. I believe they've discontinued my favorite anti-perspirant slash deodorant scent Which is a dove man, you know tough tough guy dark gray bottle I've tried that well, no, no, but they have different scents and they have one that's called like mineral and sage Which smells great and they have seemingly discontinued it, But they have introduced a new Lyman Sage or Mineral and Lyme or something aluminum-free,

because now they're like, we're into wellness or whatever all these companies should be like. We also love organic. You know, it's like, okay, now it won't work. Well, it doesn't work. And I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna give you the unadulterated

Josh Topolski review of Doves, Illuminum-free, Deodorant, which is please put aluminum in it because that's what stops people from re-cain. And when I say people, I mean me, and I don't know who's every single natural or aluminum free or whatever, Deodorant. I install the worst. I have every one of them I've tried is a failure. They do not work.

It is the greatest scam. I'm sorry, it is the greatest scam. If you think you don't stink when you're wearing that shit, you can't smell yourself. But everybody else can. It smells like Steve Jobs in the 70s. Wow, I mean, that's probably correct. But we don't know, I'd love to know how he smelled like, they should bottle that and sell it.

But no, it's like, anyhow, I'm just sorry, so to get on that point, everybody is now into the organic stuff and everybody is ready to meet you on the battlefield of life. What the hell was the point? What the fuck was I talking about just before the deodorant aside? I think something about deodorant and marketing. Oh yeah, right. Well, my point was that actually you do stink

and you need deodorant and you need one that actually functions and has chemicals in it that stop your body from stinking. And I know you'll, look, you're gonna come, I know these people are gonna come at me with there. That's, you know, we shouldn't be suppressing our, that's how bodies are supposed to smell. First off, I think they've actually proven that aluminum is fine and it doesn't hurt you. It's not a big deal For what's hilarious is that it was like 20 years ago somebody was like aluminum is very bad

And you shouldn't use it and then they did all these studies and it's like oh that people are still taking vitamin C for a cold It's more about the narrative that means I don't I don't know. I haven't had a cold in a while, but I will say I mean, I don't work. I don't know. I haven't had a cold in a while, but I will say, yeah, don't walk around like your shit don't stink because it do stink, okay? Everybody knows it. I literally had to order the last two remaining tubes

of my favorite deodorant from like a store called Blains in the Midwest, which I'd never heard of. And I was like midnight and I was in bed. Yeah, it's like, I was like, where can I get this? Cause I started like seeing that it was not available anywhere. And it's like, Blaine's has two tubes of it or whatever. And I'm like, I'll get those. And then they're like, well, it's $8 for shipping.

And I'm like, that's like almost as much as the deodorant. And I was like, well, maybe I should buy something else from Blaine's, never heard of it, never been to their website before. It blames us some good, well, Blaine's is like, Blaine's is like, value retailer, come and get, keywords or my or blames is like, blames is like, value retailers, come and get,

goods or my or, they're like, come and get your groceries. And also, do you need a tractor? And also, maybe your horse needs groceries as well. And they're like, have you stocked up,

a Walmart as like, they're like, have you stocked up on your, they're like, have you stocked up on your proper packs or whatever? I'm like, okay. I was like, maybe I should buy something else. Have you considered these car heart work whatever? I'm like, okay, I was like, maybe I should buy some of the delts. They're like, have you considered these car heart work pants?

I'm like, actually, I have. Okay, before we go, I have one thing that really bothered me this week. It got under my skin for a whole day. I think I'm finally getting over it, but I think I'm ready to talk about it. There was a piece on the verge about how kids in college, these zoomers don't understand how to use computers

because folders don't make sense to them and they don't know what files are. Yeah. And I am sorry to that reporter, and I'm sure that this is true for some subset of kids who've had Chromebooks and could never afford any other kind of technology, but that is such bonkers bullshit.

And it is not a real issue. It is, you know what, millennials did not understand command line and then when we have to use it, we go on YouTube and we learn how it works and then we go, okay, now I understand the online. Not a real problem. I think so it is a fake moral panic. I wanna talk, I agree, actually,

you actually hit the nail on the head about this and Lauren and I were talking about it. We were talking about it like when we started reading that article and the thing that she pointed out which I have to say, I'm not saying that the reporting's bad or whatever, but like this opening anecdote is, you know, in back, you know, in 2017,

this professor started noticing that her students were all like, I can't find my project or whatever. And slowly but surely, she dawned on her. They didn't know what a file was. And it's like, I think there's something more to that story that we're not hearing, which is like, someone didn't do their homework.

Like, or whatever they were using, had a bad interface, or the explanation for... Or they used Mac's their whole life and they were used to that search system. Now they're on Microsoft and Windows and they're like, I don't like this search. But so just to start with, it was very hard to accept this concept that there's this huge starting in 2017, okay? Right? So it started seeing the problem in 2017. She asked each student where they'd save their project.

Could they be on their desk, on the desktop, perhaps in the shared drive, but over and over she was met with confusion. What are you talking about multiple students inquired? Not only did they not know where their files were saved, they didn't understand the question. Okay, so they didn't know what a file was. Now, I will cop to, and I got a lot of people telling me on Twitter that like, hey, man, you know, you're just old, you don't realize these kids were raised on iPads and blah, blah, blah,

all this stuff. It's like, iPads. I use files. I accept that I'm a super user. I'm a super, I'm super first off, and I'm also a super user. I understand that I understand these products in a way, and I understand technology in a way that a lot of people don't.

I get the call. Every person in my family when they're having a problem, you know who you are, you're the same. You get the call, and they're like, you're out here power cycling route. Yeah, please help me, please help me figure this problem out, whatever, fine. Okay. Zelda is seven years old.

And I think Zelda is perhaps a slightly savier than some other kids her age because she's my child somewhat, but like she spends 90% of her computing time, 90, 90% of her computing time on an iPad. And she, on her own, has come to understand this concept of like, there are apps, they are an object, those apps can be put into a folder, right? Now she has screens where she loads up things that she's saved, right? She goes into a painting program, she has a painting app that she likes to use on her iPad.

It presents her with things she can open, and it presents her with things she can save. And she understands that those occupy a space somewhere in that device, like they're there, right? She knows the basic concept. She has the basic concept of like your work. A self-contained. Your work is saved.

There's a thing that that work is in this system somewhere and you can get to it in a variety of your ways. She also uses search all the time. She'll open up the search bar and search for an app that she's looking for like I do and you do because it's more convenient. So she understands that you can search for that thing, right? But she doesn't think that like, I don't think she's the, and again, maybe it's,

I'm just using my child as an example, but like, I understand this concept that, that people may be less, uh, cognizant of the need or the less cognizant of like the underpinnings of a file and folder system, or less cognizant of the fact that when you, that something could be saved, quote, unquote, saved or is, is existing in its state that you left it in, and that thing, that is something, it is something. It's not like a general vibe. There is an object that that represents, right? Like, I don't, and I find it very, very difficult. I'm sure it's true for some people, but I find it very difficult to accept

that, you know, multiple students, so many that it was in an article were just simply like, didn't understand the concept of a file. They didn't understand the concept of saving a file or that a file could be saved, Not that they've done it, but that they understand that the thing exists and is a possibility. Like I know that even if they completely don't understand, they've only ever used an iPhone and they've only ever opened an app and closed an app. That's it.

That's all they've ever done on a phone. Let me give you an example. It wouldn't be explained to them. Yes, yes. In less than 20 minutes, it's not true. 20 seconds. It's not true. I'm giving leeway for kids with learning disabilities. Okay. It is it is not true. It's just a flat out isn't but but even not a reality. So so so then there's like these quotes from people like everybody's trying to like compare these things to like

cabinets and folders and shit like actual like things in reality and like to be very clear. actual things in reality and to be very clear. That's not, like, I know people tweeting me about it in the article where people are talking about how there's a folder and then, or there's a file cabinet and then inside the file cabinet is a folder and it's like, at a very, if you were only to interact with like the concept of some of the icons on your computer, you might believe that that is the way

that the file system functions. But in fact, it is a much more multifaceted system that really doesn't have anything to do with cabinets or files or folders. It's simply like things go into groups. Those groups get boxes, sometimes get visual boxes around them, sometimes not. But like what is true is that almost everywhere on the internet and everywhere in technology, what is represented whether on purpose or by proxy or by accident, we see a lot of these same things over and over again, which is Google Drive,

groups things as objects inside of other objects, drop box, lists objects, objects inside of other objects, drop box, lists, objects, objects inside of other objects, obviously Mac and Windows. Every, every smartphone has a file app, but also they have things like folders and they encourage even the new iOS encourages apps to live in groups. It kind of almost forces you into it now, where it says, your apps will go into these things and that's where our collection of things is. So just the concept of these being discrete individual objects that can exist within a

system somewhere, the idea that there is a 20 year old or an 18 year old who has grown up, especially in the age of YouTube, where theyeral, they just can't understand what an object is. Yeah, what's a file? Like, what's a file? I don't understand. I saved a file. Like, I understand. Maybe I sound like very old, but I want to give kids that

have never used physical books. If you said grab your bookmark and they're like, what's a bookmark? Yeah. Sure. I understand that they've been doing that. In a hundred years. But that's what I could tell you you it's a piece of paper,

you stick to you for a remember your page. And they would go, oh, that's a bookmark and we would be done with it. I just think I get it and I think there's also this idea that well, you know, people are really relying on search and things like Alfred and obviously, you know, you know, whatever, whatever Apple calls it, the spotlight or whatever.

It's like, totally get it. Search is really functional. And Google has obviously made search a thing that is at the forefront of our mind, which makes a lot of sense. But search actually has so much more in common with a command line than it does with, I mean, there's so many parallels between using

that kind of text search function and using a command line to find things. It's very interesting. And so I think, just to back up from this, my annoyance with this story and my disbelief, and I will fight someone on this in terms of intellectually having this conversation. I don't believe that people are so

They're so far removed from the way that these systems work that They don't they can't just they can't understand the core concept. Ah, maybe they don't know Exactly how to find things that I also think is somewhat bunk But like the idea that they can understand the core concept of a file to me rings really, like this to me, reminds me of a reminded me of an article from the style section, the way that New York Times

style section used to write these articles that were like, they were like Boomer bait essentially. And the Boomer bait was like about this, it would be this. Like these young kids don't know what a file is. And everybody would, you know, it'd be like me, I'm like, I'll be an arm. Kids are using punctuation to protect it. Right, right, punctuation is a great example.

So I think like, yeah, that's a great one. It's like, like I'm sorry, you sound older when you point this out about young people that you've cleverly observed. Then I do saying, I don't think that that's a big deal. I mean, this way older. Yeah, do saying, I don't think that that's a big deal. I mean, it's way older. Yeah, I mean, to me, it's like, this is the rainbow party of computing problems.

Totally. Like, 100%. It's like, yeah, maybe one time. Are your teens doing whippets? I mean, I'm sorry. Maybe, I don't think it's a crisis. Zelda was given, Zelda was given, she's second grade. They were given Chromebooks.

Chromebooks have files on them. Yes, they do. They have like, I use docs. You have to save the file. But even if you just use docs, even if you just use docs on the web, when you go to your docs page, the files don't. The files aren't called up magically.

It shows a list of files. It shows your files. It shows. And they're folder objects. Like maybe the teacher just, this professor didn't explain what to look for. Maybe like they're like the file, the kids were like, what's a file?

And she couldn't figure out some way to explain what it was. Like, oh, you know the thing that is the thing you click on that opens up the project. Yeah, maybe they take part in a save or a... No, yeah, maybe whatever. I mean, but we're talking about completely insane. We're now writing. We're on the logical concepts.

Yeah, we're like theories of the organization of the universe. Yeah, I don't want to get. I've got it. I don't, I think this is not like an either or situation. I actually have zero fear about people not being able to understand like essentially a basic information systems. Like, they love search, they use Siri and fucking a Google Assistant to find things.

I think that's wonderful. They're always asking the echo to do things for them. That's fine. Well, my phone just woke up. No, I don't want you to do anything for me. I think that's great. I think that's great. But I also believe pretty strongly that even that this generation, the next generation, and for many generations following, we will not need special classes to teach them what a file is or what a folder is. We will simply need to use some common sense with them, and they will need to use some common sense as well.

And I think that like there are- But even if you need a special class, guess what? When I went to college, we had a basic intro to computer class about Microsoft Office and the Adobe Suite because we were gonna use them in class. Guess what? When I went to college, we had a basic intro to computer class about Microsoft office and the Adobe suite because we were going to use them in class. Yeah. And we had to sit through a 90 minute slideshow presentation while we tapped on our phones. And guess what? Some underprivileged people or people who were traveling internationally and didn't have computers or people who had no interest in computers and whose parents homeschooled them, maybe 10 people out of our entire student body

needed the class, and we all had to sit through it so they wouldn't be embarrassed. It was fine. We all went to typing class, even though we knew how to type. It's fine. It's not a big deal. This is not a cultural crisis. But the piece was so like,

well, their brains are devolving into goo. Well, we need to take away their phones and give them Windows 98. I mean, here's Stone, stop it. What I would, so then they quote this, they quote this senior at Princeton, okay? And if I were able to speak to this person, I'd say how would you get in?

That tracks without Joshua Drossman, a senior at Princeton has understood computer systems for as long as he can remember. The most intuitive thing, this is a quote, the most intuitive thing would be a laundry basket where you have everything kind of together and you're just kind of pulling out what you need at any given time. So let me just stop. Wait, wait, wait, what? Yes, he says, attempting to describe his mental model.

So let me just stop here. Josh was a mental, Josh was a mental model is fucking garbage because Yeah, it's like you know I hear I hear a guy I hear a guy who's waiting for some person to take care of organization for him. He can't fucking sort his law. I what I hear here is not that It would be more intuitive if it worked like you what you use as the thing that makes sense to you is a laundry basket filled up with stuff piled together and you pull out what you need at any given time. Like within the span of one sentence,

this guy says, signal so many problems with the way his brain works that it's like kind of unbelievable to me. Okay, like, are we sure he hasn't had traumatic brain injury? Yeah, if you think what is efficient and convenient is you got all your fucking clothes in a laundry basket and when you need a sock, you dig around in there until you find a sock.

The whole world is your giant purse with all of your possessions in it at all times. That your problems are not that you don't know what a file is. Your problems are that you don't know how to organize things and break them down into smaller parts that make it easier to access them more quickly. You have a... You have a...

You have a... You have a... You have a... You have a... You have a... You have a... You have a... You have a...

You have a... You have a... You have a... You have a... You have a... You have a... and put it away for me, or when I would just back into somebody and they'd get it for me. I don't know what this is, but like, this is not, I would not use his mental model as an example of, maybe we could say, oh well, here's exactly the problem, but this kid's problem is not, he doesn't know what folders are. As kids, frankly, the idea that kids don't interact with paper or folders is ridiculous.

Go into any elementary school, they hand out diddoes, kids draw on pieces of paper, they save them. We understand what paper is. I mean, absurd. He's like, he knows what folders are, he understands their importance, but it's still not enough. Sometimes he slips about halfway through a recent nine month research project. He built up a project. He built so many files that he gave up on keeping them all structured. I tried to be organized, but there's a certain point where there are so many files that he kind of, just became a hot mess.

Drossman says, many of his items ended up in one mass, a folder. It's like, this person doesn't have a problem with files and folders. This person has a problem with organization. And that's a laziness. And that, well, I'm not gonna make a judgment on whether he's lazy or not.

Maybe he has stuff going on in his mind that is making it hard. I get it. I'm super ADD and sometimes like, it can be hard to keep things like organized. whether he's lazy or not. Maybe he has stuff going on in his mind that is making it hard. I get it. I'm super ADD and sometimes like, it can be hard to keep things like organized. But I've come up with. I have ADHD.

I have literally almost no object permanence. And John heats that everything I own is where I use it and where I can see it. And he thinks I just have piles of stuff. That does sound very annoying. It's difficult, but we had to learn how to create spaces for me to put things in storage, but where I use them so that I don't lose everything, because I lose everything.

And I get that, but I also understand what a thing is and what a box is. And I'm not shocked to find out there's a digital equipment. A equivalent. That's, whatever. This whole thing was just absurd. And it bothered me because like every once in a while, the whole tech world gets in this moral panic

about how kids tried to use, tried to touch the TV because they're used to touch screens. And it's like, it takes two seconds to be like, this isn't a touch screen. I admit, when Zelda was much younger, and she was using the iPad a lot, and she would see the TV, she would definitely,

and she still does occasionally try to touch like a computer monitor that isn't a touch screen. That's very understandable, but this is not that. This is not the expectation that, I mean, this is just, I'm sorry, it's just like, there's just something really fundamental about understanding. You don't have to understand elaborate systems and elaborate hierarchies.

You simply have to know that there's really no way, there's no way for this to work unless you can imagine that you're the things that you are going to return to on a regular basis must be stored in some manner and must be frozen in some state at some point because like anything in life, you know, you can't, it's like, I'm working on a woodworking project and I get halfway through and then I have to break because I'm busy doing something else. This is like, I know that that project is in this state at this point and this many pieces are required to finish it and I have cuts to do and et cetera and like, I have to return to that state and like there's a really basic conception of how we work

that involves not files and folders, but it is these ideas of objects that can be frozen and then unfrozen and then changed and then frozen again. And those live somewhere. There is a thing that exists that is discretely that thing. And I don't believe for a second that a generation raised on like collecting Pokemon and saving their games and, and the people, yes, the people like Pokemon are a fault, they're living like folders basically, you like, they're files, you collect the file and then you put it a folder like, I'm sorry, it's not that complicated.

But also, the generation that all, everybody wants to be a YouTuber, there's no way that those people don't understand that like you have to like shoot a video. And then the video has to go from like, the way it was when you shot it, to the way you want it to be on YouTube. And like, even TikTok has editing tools and tools,

and you have to understand like, this is a discrete file or collection of files that I'm bringing together into a project which is basically a folder to make a thing that then gets exported. And I understand like we can talk about the abstract ideas and all this stuff but really I don't believe that this generation or the next generation.

It's just like, it's just like, it is very like Rainbow Party-esque in the sense of like, yeah, maybe there's like one professor who had this like one problem and it's that kind of exaggerated. I just don't believe this guy. Josh Drossman, Joshua Drossman, Drossman. What he needs is like a lesson and he needs Marie Kondo to teach him how to organize things.

Like he doesn't need, he doesn't need a fucking computer science class. He needs a, here's how you're an adult adult you don't live out of a fucking laundry basket All right, listen, I don't even have time for nice things. I have to get out of here because I'm late for a meeting right now So I think I talked listen I think I said my nice thing is dot com for murder to do a check it out also the Annie 2014 soundtrack real bangers and real bangers on there I have been playing a very fun game It is an indie game that you can get on steam.

It's called Honey. I joined a cult. It is a simulator similar to like a sim city or, you know, a simulator is and you are a cult leader. And the game is all about keeping your cult going despite all the factors which would take a cult apart. And it's very funny. It's very 70s theme.

The music is hilarious. And all of the prompts and everything are done in the voice of a sociopathic cult leader. So like when someone gets sick, they're like, it's very annoying. Like the pop-up says like, one of your subjects is sick. It's very annoying.

I love it. It is a great way to teach people how cults work and how they manipulate people very subtly. It's very, it's delightful. And frankly, the subject matter, yes, is depressing, but you know, there are a lot of games about murder. So I think if we can make a game about murder, we can take cults and make them digestible and also fun to learn about. And maybe that will, you know, immunize some people's minds against cults, recruiting, or whatever. Alright, anyhow, we gotta wrap up! I gotta go! Well, that is our show for this week. We'll be back next week with more tomorrow and as always, it was you and your family the very best.

Though I've just learned that your family has been placed into a folder and you are unable to find them and they're very hungry.