Tomorrow - Darker Zuckerberg and Other Tales

Episode Date: January 16, 2025

Mark Zuckerberg goes on Joe Rogan to make sure Trump knows he is masc4masc, meanwhile Siri is quiet quitting and using ChatGPT to do her job, all this and more in this week's ep. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, and welcome to tomorrow. I'm your host, Joshua Topolsky. And I'm your other host, Ronnie Mohler. And we are back. I'm actually recording this from the beautiful New York office of Robin Hood Markets incorporated the parent company of Sherwood Media LLC, a wholly-owned but editorially independent subsidiary of Robin Hood Markets. Do you have that memorized? That's good. We were just talking about the disclosure because we wrote about Robin Hood today and everybody was like, what's the disclosure again? Anyhow, but I'm sitting in the office here. This is only the second time I've ever tried to record from the office.

I was there with you the first time and it was a big clusterfuck. Huge failure. Clusterfuck is exactly the term I would use. But anyhow, so you're not here. This is fine. No judgment. RTO, but Ronnie doesn't give it doesn't give it our to the second recording ever in the office as big RTO on these on on tomorrow.

Anyways, it's like not a lot has happened. But a lot is there is still a lot happening in tech right now. We're just days away. I think it's worth saying that we're speaking to you just four days before the date that we're recording this at least before the date that TikTok is supposed to be officially TikTok, TikTok, TikTok is going to be I don't know what they do. What's going to happen actually? Do we know like Well, the information just reported that, you know, everyone was saying that, you know, people who already had the

app, we're going to kind of hold on to it for a while and then they were going to prevent new downloads. But apparently, TikTok is saying like, we're just going to shut it down so that people could really feel the impact. I think it's awesome. I think it's cool. I actually wish more social networks would just be shut down. I mean, I kind of get what they're going at. They're like, okay, if everyone like really feels like what it's like without TikTok, but like, are people going to ride in the streets over it? Like, it's TikTok. No one's going to ride in the streets. But I think people are going to be like, okay, if everyone like really feels like what it's like without TikTok, but like, are people gonna ride in the streets over it? Like, it's TikTok.

No one's gonna ride in the streets. But I think people are gonna be like, what am I gonna do now? Like, go outside with all this free time that I have? Like, what am I gonna do? You know? Yeah, right. Are they gonna go outside? Do they touch grass? No, no, they're gonna go on Red Note or Sister app. Red Note is like some new, it's like, what is Red Note? What is Red Note? It's like a new thing?

Right now, it's at the top of the free app store on Apple. It's another Chinese social media platform. It is not owned by ByteDance. The number two one is Lemon8, which is owned by ByteDance. These are not being banned, right? These are apps that are like, maybe do similar or the same thing made by the same people, but they're just like, they didn't, because they're not called TikTok. Is that correct?

Um, well, ByteDance, like Lemonade is actually owned by ByteDance, so it feels like exactly the same thing, whereas Red Note is like a different owner. No, no. Okay, fine. So Lemonade, which I haven't used. And I'm always like, I'm not going to, but I guess if it becomes like a good waste of time, I might. But the idea is just basically like, the government, the US government's like, those Chinese are taking our- They're doing something with our data,

privacy that we don't know and we won't tell you. And we don't like it. TikTok is doing it. But like any other Chinese app that exists, every other Chinese app that exists that may or may not be doing any of this. Right, I don't like it. TikTok is doing it. But like any other Chinese app that exists, every other Chinese app that exists that may or may not be doing any of this. Right, I don't think it's a blanket like we can't have apps from China.

It's just not TikTok. No, no, right. And it could be, literally could be by the maker of TikTok doing the same thing as TikTok. But if it isn't listed, like it's not TikTok, then it's fine. It is funny to me though, that like instead of going to like Instagram Reels, like people are going to Red Note, but I don't know.

And we'll see what happens. I mean, I think- Today they are. Yeah, I think the thing about it is, is TikTok, I mean the big question is, is TikTok important? I know we all think it is. I know that they've been making money.

I get a lot of ads on TikTok and I know that I look at TikTok and I'm like enjoying the videos that I see. But do we is TikTok like are any of these things really important? Do we really need it? Any of these things? I'll tell you something. I was on Facebook Marketplace yesterday. That's the best part of Facebook.

I was like, this is awesome. It was like, honestly, the only thing I was just like, there's so much crazy stuff on here. It truly is like America's It's like it's like if you organize a garbage dump, you know, like you organized a landfill It's like all of America laid bare just in terms of goods, you know, and the goods are just so Crazy. There's I'm just like oh wow, I could like There's like some like Cooper mini Mini for sale was like, for like $2,000. I was like, I could just buy a car, a new weird little red car on

Facebook market price. I'm not going to wait, you already bought like a boat on like marketplace. Didn't you? I bought a boat. I bought a I bought a very rough in rough condition. I didn't buy it actually. I bought it. Is it seabaring? Will it float? It is.

I bought it on, I met the person who was selling it on Facebook. I did not actually buy it on marketplace, I should say. But. In crypto. I bought it in Bitcoin and it's gonna be delivered digitally to me. No, but sorry, I don't mean to get off topic, but I was just really marveling at the sheer

variety and volume of things that are available on Marketplace. And it's honestly very cool. If you wanted a piano, which I do, you could just get one. People are giving them away. They're literally just dying to get rid of their pianos. If you can come and get this out of my house, you can have it, which is incredible. There's a lot of stuff for free on Facebook Marketplace, actually. Anyhow, sorry.

But that, I think, is important. I think Facebook is actually, because so many boomers rely on it, and older people, I do see depressing. I see Gen X people on it using it. I'm like, guys. Yeah, I see people really going through it on Facebook. No, it's like you guys are the slacker, my generation's supposed to be the slackers and the people who are like,

I don't wanna be part of your system, man, or whatever, they're anti-mainstream. No, they are really, they're like, nah man, I'm not gonna get sucked into your corporate world or whatever, you know, like whatever Gen X people were into. I mean, I'm paraphrasing, I'm making fun of it. But if there was a little bit of what you're saying, yeah, okay, there was a legitimate vibe amongst people, like,

generationally, they were like, the system. I mean, it's where a lot of these like weird conspiracy anti vax people come from, or is like Gen X mindset, where it I mean, it's where a lot of these like weird conspiracy anti-vax people come from, or it's like Gen X mindset, where it's like, it's all a conspiracy and the system is rigged and I don't want to be a part of your system or whatever. Like literally. People have been saying that forever. I don't know if that's just- They have, they have, but I think the Gen X was like, especially like checked out of it, which is why you don't see Gen X people anywhere, because they kind of like checked out of reality. But then you see them on Facebook. I'm serious. They were like, society, man, forget it.

But then you see them on Facebook and they're acting like boomers and it's really sad. That is depressing. I mean, they're just doing Facebook stuff, which is like, don't do that. Of course, I say that as a guy who is commenting on a boat group. No, no. I rarely ever look at it, but there's a couple of groups is commenting on a boat group. I rarely ever look at it, but there's a couple of groups that I'm a part of. Personally, I love Marketplace.

Sometimes I try to go to Facebook Marketplace and it tells you a lot about wherever you are. I love changing my location when I'm in a new location to see what they sell there and what the inside of people's houses are. It's the classifieds. Sometimes I make a mistake and then end up on of people's houses are. It's the classifieds, right? But sometimes I make a mistake and then end up on Facebook and feel really, you know, gross. No, the main Facebook is like so useless to me. It's like also because it's a mishmash of all these weird groups that are disparate, like not intended to be together.

Like one is like a parents group for like where I live, right? And then another one is like this like boat thing. And I'm like in some like, I joined some group that was like for sound deadening when I was like putting sound proofing in my Range Rover my old I have an old Range Rover and I was like sound proofing it myself And I was like trying to figure out how you do that and I joined this group called the deadening Which is just people sound only Gen X guys Definitely a lot of Gen X guys. Fucking huge losers. Anyway, but you know, it's all these

disparate posts from these different things where it's like, I need a housekeeper. It's like somebody in my neighborhood. And then it's like somebody like, how do you sound? It's chaos in there. I have 150 from 1988. And it's like, anyway, but getting back to TikTok. Is TikTok

a utility or a distraction? Could people get, I mean, you know, by the way, you know, Zuckerberg, and we'll talk about him in a second because I know he's on the list of things we need to discuss. We got to keep talking about Dark Zuckerberg. But you know, now that he's trying to ingratiate himself with Trump, which he's already done, apparently, it's very easy. You just have to like, do some. It's so funny with Trump, you just have to like, do some. It's so funny. You just have to like be like,

yeah, Democrats. Yeah, it's like women Democrats suck. And Trump's like, this guy gets it. This guy gets it. He's on the right path. I don't know what Trump sounds like. That's like a not a Trump impersonation. I just want to be clear. I'm not trying. Anyhow, the god what am I talking about? So, so like, yeah, Facebook is important and tick tock, maybe not. Yeah, but I was also thinking, I don't think Facebook's important. But yeah, Zuckerberg, it's more important

to talk for sure. I mean, by by orders of magnitude, and it's a utility for a lot of old people, or older people, I should say, I don't want to be totally anxious. But the other thing is that, you know, you know, Zuckerberg is like in Trump's ear, being like, don't, we don't need TikTok. Oh, yeah, this is great news for Metta, which has a TikTok phone. He's like, have you seen Reels? It's like TikTok, but even better. He's like, you know, maybe we'll acquire Rumble or whatever. I'm sure the shit that they're talking about is crazy right now. Like, maybe Facebook will acquire

you know, Trump media or whatever. Is that who owns? They own truth. Maybe they'll incorporate truth into maybe that'll become their. Bloomberg report that like the Chinese government was floating the idea that Elon Musk, owner of X, could take over TikTok. You know, what's interesting to think about is Zuckerberg on one side and Elon Musk on the other. They can't possibly like each other very much, right? They hate each other.

They have a long history. It seems like they don't like each other. It's like billionaire versus billionaire. I like the way it's shaping up in terms of a kind of chaotic encounter between those two. But. Yeah, I mean they're very similar in a lot of ways, right? They both had like a glow up where they used to be,

you know, nerdy tech dudes and now they're being like really aggro. I mean Zuckerberg's way more successful glow up wise than Elon Musk. No, have you seen, no, Elon Musk got like hair plugs and like, he looks so obvious. I know he got like some, he like tries to look cooler. But in terms of like actually pulling off, seeming like they are cooler and dressing

better, Zuckerberg far in a way has pulled it off more successfully. Neither of them is cool, but both of them have improved, I guess, whatever. But like, it's like, I think all Zuckerberg needs now is like, because they both have media companies, like to follow that same like, beta to alpha trajectory, he needs to buy like a rocket company, I guess. I think that's probably right. I think he'll need to buy some kind of like very ambitious, he's doing AI, you know, they tried the VR metaverse stuff, like I think there's probably some computers, yeah, some sort of ambitious thing that

he could go for, but quantum computing company, maybe, I don't know if they're delving in. Testosterone pills. Testosterone. Maybe he'll buy Infowars. Maybe Zuckerberg will buy Infowars instead of the Onion. Anyhow, the point is, so TikTok, like they're going to shut it down on the 19th, supposedly. That's the current plan. Right. It's going to be a lot on the 19th and they're going to purposefully just shut it off maybe. Pull the plug. Yeah.

You said that they're going to, they just want people to feel it, right? Feel it. Yeah. I think a pop-up will come there and say what's going on and you can download your data, et cetera, and then you're going to ride on the streets. I mean, if they sell it to Elon Musk, which would honestly make, if he could combine that with X or just make it a suite or whatever.

A giant health site. Well, I mean, if he, I mean, TikTok so far from what I can tell is actually pretty enjoyable. Right, and makes money. I can see it, yeah, I could see it being ruined pretty easily by him. Obviously it would be a, if you're looking at just in terms of social network sort

of presence, it would give him a big leg up in terms of like sheer audience and revenue and I guess cultural cache or whatever. But again, it would also be flying in the face of Zuckerberg. It would be like literally Trump's guys competing on such a similar level. It's interesting to think about what actually is the right move there. I think when all said and done, who's a better ally? It seems like Elon Musk is. Right. He's given him, Trump, a lot more money. He seems more in the bag for him.

Obviously, he's campaigned for him. He gave him like so much more money. And he also like has a position like an extra governmental position in Trump's government. I heard God speaking of that I heard somebody in one of these hearings, the Hague, Seth hearings, say doge, like as a thing. And it's like the honestly the saddest, most embarrassing moment in, like I've seen in a long time in American politics, where like a Senator is like actually referencing this absurd- At least they're not saying like GIF wrong. That's also uncomfortable.

But at least, but GIF is a thing. Doge is not. Doge is like a made up. It's like one, it's like a cryptocurrency, whatever, fine. It's become somewhat tradeable. The agency that Musk is going to run or whatever is like not even... It's just so... It's also...

We're just living in such a dark, stupid timeline. It's hard to explain, really. It's hard to articulate. Did you see the Trump's external revenue service to collect tariffs? He's trying to make an even another government organization like the... ERS? ERS. External revenue service. I do got to hand it to whoever came up with that. It's pretty

good. Yeah. Well, there's going to be more and more. The tariff stuff is funny. I think it'll be interesting to see what happens if we actually put any of these tariffs in place. I don't think Americans understand how, I don't think a lot, I mean, frankly, it's complicated, but how international commerce works here, how trade works, it's not going to have a positive. I mean, it may seem cool and tough from Trump, but tariffs on like China will not have a positive impact at your local target or Walmart, which is where the majority of Americans are

shopping. Yeah, well, we'll see. I guess we'll find out. But so TikTok is going to be shut down. And I don't know how to feel about it. You know, I'm thinking it's like, let's try something. Let's see what it's like. You know, let's see how people react. I mean, sees it as an opportunity to... Trump likes anything that makes him

seem like people like him. He'll do... He likes things where he gets praise. So he'd get a lot of praise from people who like TikTok. Right. He was the one who was trying to shut down TikTok originally, if you remember, from his administration. Now he's like, wait, people like him? know, he's obviously flip-flopped on this a bit. It seems like a minor, I mean, it seems like a minor note in his first presidency. Like, I don't remember the TikTok controversy in any level of tremendous detail. Like, when did, what year did that happen? Oh God. Like, was it, was it, I? Remember, he stopped being president 2020.

Right? Was it so soon ago? Right? 2020. He was no longer president starting in 2020. Is that correct? Is that how it works? Yeah. 2020 November 2020 was no, no, no, the inauguration wouldn't have been until 2021. Right? Is that right? I don't know. Yeah, 2021. Somebody smarter than me. Help me budget, you know, my family. When was the insurrection? That was August, sorry, that was January 6, 2021. Was it 21?

Insurrection day. So he starts in 21 is when the new president starts. Well, 25. He's going to start in 25 now. And so this year, 2025 is when... Right. So he was president all through 2020, which was also like when COVID started. Does anybody remember when the TikTok thing happened? When did he say that we should ban TikTok? I mean, how could it possibly be? After Trump proposed to ban TikTok in the US on July 1st, 2021, he said that he would ban TikTok. And then he said that he would ban TikTok.

And then he said that we should ban TikTok? I mean, how could it possibly be? After Trump proposed to ban TikTok in the US on July 31st, 2020. Okay, so in the middle of COVID. Right. In the middle of COVID, which I guess like maybe maybe they became aware of it

because a lot of people were using it during COVID. Right, that's what it, I mean, it was very popular before COVID, but it really, really took off when we were in lockdown. COVID really kicked off like March of 2020 is my memory. Right? Yep. That's what I mean. It was very popular before COVID, but it really, really took off when COVID really kicked off like March of 2020 is my memory. Right. Yep. That's right. That was like when Tom Hanks got COVID. The official start date of COVID. Tom Hanks dating. Tom Hanks got COVID and everybody was like, well, this is serious. He was filming something in Australia or something. He got COVID. People were like were like hold on a second Maybe we should take it seriously and they shut down the NBA

They were like we're shutting down the season because too many people are getting sick and then there was like, okay I guess this is real like Tom Hanks has it and they're not doing sports anymore. So Yeah, so I don't know like what his I don't know I remember what the suggestions somebody in his in his Somebody was like hey, we think I think tick tock is spying on Americans or whatever. Is that getting an article right now? We've heard that as far as tick tock is concerned, we're banning them from the United States. Trump said to reporters while on board Air Force One, when asked whether he had the authority, it was like, it was not immediately clear if he had the authority to do that. Something the New York Times reporting. This is actually CNN. CNN. It was not immediately clear if he had the authority to do that. It sounds like the New York Times reporting.

This is actually the CNN. The CNN. It was not immediately clear if he had the authority to do that. Nothing is immediately – from what I can tell in this country – No, no. Sorry. It actually said it was not immediately clear what such an order would look like and what the legal challenges might be. Sure. Sure. But same thing. Okay. Same idea. I mean, it's like whatever he can get through is what's possible.

Right, if he was looking at that, it was a national security risk. Sure. So here's the funny thing. Has anybody presented a single piece of evidence that it is a national security risk? Not to me and you, but apparently to Congress, like to our lawmakers. I'd like to see it. I'd like to see what evidence they have. I think it would be good for the public to know the users of it should know what evidence is being used to shut it down.

I'm just genuinely curious. I'm surprised, I don't know how this works, but that it hasn't been leaked. We have bipartisan support for this while outlawing a whole giant cultural thing. What's the evidence? It's gotten real bad. They don't have shit. There's no evidence. And also it cannot be the only if there is evidence. There are so many apps that are made by Chinese companies in the app store.

You think TikTok is not the only one? Yeah, I don't know. Trump wants to save it. So he would like to keep it in the US. The people who make, what is the role playing game that we play? What is it called? I'm really annoyed now. What is it called? It's definitely made by a Chinese company, Chinese role playing games. Like Zelda. It looks like Zelda. I don't know. Genshin impact.

Genshin impact. Okay. Do you know what I'm talking about? Nope. You don't. Okay. Well, it's a very popular, like multiplayer. Yeah, this is a hole in my knowledge base. Okay, well, like, I mean, it's owned by... It's definitely owned by a Chinese company. I mean, is it because they're not putting video? So you want that outlawed too? Gosh. Yeah, I do. Let me tell you about it. MiHoYo is the name of the company. HoYoVerse.

Cool name. Part of the HoYoVerse. How many players does it have? Does it say? It's got a lot of players. Whatever, it's grossed 3.8 billion by the end of 2022. It's not nothing. What data do they have on us? Nobody knows, nobody cares. Why aren't they banning Genshin Impact? Okay? That's what I want to know. I just want the government to leak what they know. I want to know. I just want like the government to leak like what they know. I want to know what it is that's so scary. So do I.

Fascinating. Anyhow, my point is there's just dozens, hundreds, thousands of apps made by Chinese companies, some big, some small. I haven't heard a single word about any other one of them. And it's like TikTok has a lot of users, but collectively, I mean, there are many, I mean, hundreds of millions of users

on these apps across platforms. I mean, more, probably more I mean, hundreds of millions of users on these apps across platforms. I mean, more, probably more than that. But anyway, whatever. It's just all the whole thing is just theater. So now anyhow, TikTok is going to get shut down and then we don't know what's going to happen after that. It would clearly be in Mark Zuckerberg's interest for it to be shut down. Right?

We agree. Right. Meta stock doing well because of it. Yeah. Right. So, so now that he's, I mean, now that he's clearly intimating, we should talk about Dark Zuckerberg a little bit. He's gone further this recently, right?

And now he's, since then, he's been on Joe Rogan's podcast. He's going full mega. He said that American companies need more masculine, quote, masculine energy, and that there's something, they've been neutered. Yeah, I keep saying, I've been saying that to people. I was like, there aren't enough companies run by men in America. And everyone's made the joke that they're like, yeah, you know, like tech companies

like notoriously just full of men, they need more masculine energy? Really? Like, just like the number of men that work there has historically been insane. Like, it's never been equal. Yeah, but now there are some non-men hanging around, and I think it's making all the men uncomfortable. I guess so. Well, they're like, they see people who aren't men

in jobs that a man should have, and they're getting very nervous. They're like, what if my job is next? Yeah, just the level of like, pandering that you're seeing from Zuckerberg. Someone who at one point kicked Trump off of his platform is now just courting him in every way possible, culturally, monetarily. Yeah, so they're taking, I mean, they're doing all kinds of stuff, right?

More masculine energy at American companies. They took tampons out of the men's bathroom, which I can see for a certain segment of America being like a big signal. Just like a weird thing to get involved in for the head of the company. It's just like who cares? It's honestly just like why do you care?

Why is this a thing? Why does this have to be a topic for you? For the five people this is important to, why are you bothering them? Leave them alone. That's right, why? Zuckerberg, why? Well, I think we know why because he is pandering to Trump. are you bothering them? Leave them alone. That's right. Why? Zuckerberg, why? Well, I think we know why, because he is pandering to Trump.

He's pandering to Trump's base. But Max Reed wrote something. I don't know if you read his newsletter at all, but it's very good. It's called Read Max. He wrote a piece about this. And he sort of was like, this is really about labor and about the shifting winds of labor.

And that he's looking know, he's looking for he's kind of signaling that he wants like this kind of like this type of guy working for him that is probably less likely to unionize. Right. They're less likely to raise, you know, issues over labor practices. They're you know, there's in some ways is very old school, this is very old school. It's very old school. Right.

And just yesterday, Zuckerberg announced plans to cut 5% of his lowest performing workers and backfill those roles with better people, presumably. But yeah, that tracks with me. This is about how much they can control labor. Like what sort of? Yeah. Yeah, it's about retrograde ideas about. this is about how much they can control labor. Like what sort of, yeah. Yeah, it's about retrograde ideas about-

Working all the time. About everything, about everything. Yeah, right. It's like Elon Musk sleeping in the office stuff. It's like, you know, if people would only, you know, we were all excited about Luigi Mangione not that long ago. If people would only see what these guys are really, what they're really about. Like what's crazy to me about Elon Musk is that you

can see really clearly and Zuckerberg, you can see what they really want. Yeah, they want you to like them. They want, no, they want to stay rich and keep you poor. They want to get max time and energy from you and while to get max time and energy from you while putting in less time and energy from them. And community notes. I mean, right. No, I mean, literally he's like, Hey, why don't we just have you guys write the fact checking? Why am I paying people to do it when I can have my users do it for

free? Right. We've been doing a bad job at this for years and it would be way freer if you just did it. But you know, this is just classic American labor stuff, you know? And I'm not like trying to be Mr. Union or whatever. These guys are, every one of these guys down the line, Trump and all the rest of them are anti-union, anti-worker rights, anti-labor rights. Like, this is about, you know, obviously it's about making money. anti-worker rights, anti-labor rights.

This is about, obviously it's about making money. This is a big part of this is about signaling to a certain segment of the population. I'm sure in all likelihood, the people who are most likely to talk about unionizing or to talk about labor rights are the people who are coming in that are not part of the status quo. The people who are coming into a workforce and going,

hey, wait a second, it doesn't have to be like this. We could think differently about the way things are. You know what's wild to me? Zuckerberg has three daughters. All these guys, I mean, all these guys, every man I hear, all these guys. I mean, all these guys. Every man I hear, all these Republican guys talking about a woman's right to choose or masculine energy or whatever, every one of them that has a daughter,

as a person with a daughter, I can't imagine thinking, imagine being like- Imagine she heard that? I mean, it's so reprehensible, so disgusting. I'm waiting as long as I can for Zelda to learn about how these people talk about women, right? Because it's absolutely not how I want my child talked about, not how I want any woman I know talked about.

Like, you know, it's like, it's apprehensible, ugly, retrograde language that has really no place in like modern society. And yet they're like trying to push it. But we're pushing for now because it's like this like, you know, response to things being too woke and now it's going to be too aggressive. I mean, look, it's very simple. You protect your territory. You know, these guys, like men, a certain class of man feels that their territory is threatened, their dominance is threatened, their control of reality and life is threatened. And that is true. That is true.

At some point in the near future, we're not going to be able to keep going like this. At some point in the near future, there will be a point, I don't know if it'll be in my lifetime, I hope it will, where men simply don't have control over everything. Where largely white guys don't have control over everything. And that's what must be really scary if you've had control. I mean, I say this as a white man. Right, but it's so funny to me though,

because they are so squarely in control, right? They are the richest men in the world. They own so much. It's like not like, like I guess they're so scared of this like future that doesn't exist. But all of this stuff is existential to them, you know, like gay rights or trans rights or labor, you know, changes in labor practices or equality of any type, DEI, which they love to talk about, it is all to a certain type of guy

and to a certain type of woman to some extent, but it's all existential threat, right? It's like, what if I don't have the things, it's like this very limited view of the world that they have to lose for other people to win. So it's like this is a militarized, I mean Trump is a militarized version of these fears. He's like an embodiment of the fears of a certain class,

a certain person in the world. I think it's not just like white guys or whatever, it's a lot of people that like are on the the boundaries of the, you know, white guys spectrum as well. And it's a lot of people who are just used to it. I mean, the reality, like there, if you look at the if you look at the voting in America, you know you certainly see a lot of women voting

against their own interests. You see poor people voting against their own interests. Like this is very common because it feels like the way things are supposed to be is the way that a certain group of people dictate it. That's how power works. It's like you assert it against yourself. Right. It's like this is how it's supposed to be and you actually have worse enemies.

They're not me, the guy in charge who wants more from you. It's somebody else over there who isn't in charge and wants something for themselves or for other people. Anyhow, it's just like, you know, whatever. I'm not going down. Zuckerberg's throwing a party for Trump's inauguration. That's all you need to know. So to culminate in Zuckerberg is having a big rave. Having a party. But I do think it's interesting. I mean, I, but, oh, but the, one of the things that has

been pointed out about the, about the Zuckerberg stuff is that he does this every four years. I think Casey Newton wrote a piece about this. I've read all these different takes on it. There's a lot of good takes out right now because there's a lot to say. But there's a couple of things going on. One is this labor thing that I mentioned. There's also every four years he's doing something like this. Oh, completely pivoting to whoever's in charge. Yeah. He was pro. He was anti-Trump. He kicked him off the platform. He's like, we need to have all these back-Trump. He kicked him off the platform. He's like, you know, we need to, we need to have

a little bit of back pressure. Are you saying he has a very strong moral compass? A spine? I'm saying he has the moral compass of a, of a wet noodle. And, and, and that's, that's fine because that's actually how like a lot of CEOs and business people are.

Yeah, that's how business works. They're not supposed to have strongly held, and a lot of ways like, I mean, in some ways, like you could even look at Elon Musk and say the same thing. Does he have strongly held convictions? He seems increasingly to think things that are kind of sci-fi dystopia scenarios are likely. Maybe that's his most extremely held belief or whatever.

But it wasn't that long ago that he was a a climate change advocate and like Democrat basically. Right. Because he had an EV company, but now he's got an AI company. Didn't he say like, I mean, didn't he say he voted for Joe Biden? Yeah, he said a lot of things. I can't remember, but definitely, you know, but like, again, it's like, it is like a little bit of, Elon Musk is a little bit more far gone than Zuckerberg. I think Zuckerberg is a lot more opportunistic. That's my belief.

That's my view of this is that he's not, he doesn't really believe any of this. He just wants to keep making money. He wants to be hassled less. Right. Well, he's on his way. Good for him. I'm so happy. No, it's like whatever.

Anyhow, Facebook marketplace, incredible service. I recommend it to everybody. Lots of goods on there for very, very's like whatever. Anyhow, Facebook Marketplace, incredible service. I recommend it to everybody. Lots of goods on there for very, very good, low prices. It's impressive. It's actually very impressive how quickly it was adopted as like the Uber, like the better than Craigslist Craigslist. Right, I mean, cause it had the network effects that like, yeah, like a lot of people are on it

and you're presumably more trustworthy because you know some of them. And the presentation is just like, it's more visual. It's more like, it's also full of scams though, to be fair, like just like all the rest of them, you're saying the pianos might not be free. I'm saying that that boat you got, you should not take a trip for it. I didn't buy the boat on marketplace. I've physically seen it.

It's like, it's not a scam. No, no. Yeah. I'm saying it was at one point on marketplace. It was never on marketplace. It was never onplace. In fact, like the people in this... You were just on like a boat forum? Yes. No, it's a Facebook group for a certain type of boat. No. It's actually people are... It's very few GenX people. It's much older.

And it's people who don't even know how to post on Marketplace. That's where they're at. When the guy sent me pictures of it, I was like, do you have any more pictures? And it's people who don't even know how to post on Marketplace. That's where they're at. When the guy sent me pictures of it, I was like, do you have any more pictures? And he was sending to me a messenger. He was sending me screenshots of his photo app because he did not send a picture natively. Oh. No, it's fine. He needed a screenshot.

And then the last picture was him with his dog sleeping on his lap. He just accidentally sent me an extra. And now he and I are engaged to be married. Anyhow, but whatever, it's not, you know, my boat is not important. Now I'm like a guy with a boat, it sounds like I'm like real hoity

toity, but it is. It is not seafaring, don't worry. It's not a nice boat. It's not nice. It is nice to me. It's not, it's a fixer-upper. It's like a project a Big mistake is what it is by any water. Well, technically New York is by a lot of water but Like like specifically specifically do do is my house near water. Yeah See it's in it's inland very inland. Okay, but that's beside the point. Okay. We live in a society.

You know? Fits Grawliffe. What else is Grawliffe? We're so down a rabbit hole here. It's incredible. Yeah. We can talk about OpenAI. They just-

Oh, OpenAI. Yeah. OpenAI just had another news partnership. They have like a whole long list of- They're funding Axios newsrooms. This is the new open AI deal. They are funding independent local newsrooms for Axios. Axios has this local news project they've been doing. I think it has a name, but I can't remember it. It's probably like Axios Local or something. So is this like a bid for data? Is this a bid for like?

Well, they'll use the answers produced by the journalists in answers for open AI. I assume they'll scrape the data as well, right? So it's yeah, I think it's for like real time news data, hyper localized real time news data. I think they're doing it in Pittsburgh is one of the places so obviously I you know, that's my hometown. So I have a lot of thoughts about that Pittsburgh's also apparently a hot test bed for like Waymo and and other like self-driving cars because like Facebook is there and Google's there a bunch of other like tech companies Pittsburgh Kansas City that's where Kansas City's where Google did its like pilot for like fiber internet. Like maybe these are just like tester cities.

Yeah. Well, I think they're, they're like cities that are big enough to like, you know, you can get good people there and you can, there's like a lot, kind of a lot going on. There's like decent schools and stuff, but they're not like New York or LA or whatever. Anyhow, so yes, OpenAI is like funding news now. So going right to the source, like before they were like, we'll scrape news. And then everybody's like, no, don't do that. And then they're like, we'll cut a deal with you

to like scrape the news, but you'll let us do it. And then people are like, okay, that'll be like $250 million please. And now they're like, what if we just paid for the news? I think one of our editors, Nate, was talking about how long until they just are starting their own news business. I'll take it.

I have a theory about this that it's also just marketing. Every time you listen to a podcast in the Wall Street Journal, for example, or read a Wall Street Journal story, they have to put in a line like, OK, we have this partnership with OpenAI and ChatGBT, and it's like a plug. They cover a thing that they're going to have to cover for the rest of time. Well, I think it might be marketing, but also AI needs, this was a conversation in our Slack as well, AI needs data to learn and to get better. And everyone's like, we're running out of data.

Good data. Well, I mean, we've got all the internet's data, which isn't all of the information. I mean, it's not all of the world's information. The information that's available on the internet is there. But there's a lot of stuff that isn't available on the internet or is behind a paywall or is in a book somewhere, believe it or not.

There are books that aren't on the internet. No way. There's information that isn't, there's audio. I mean, there's stuff that you can't find. There are things that you really can't find online that are disappeared. So you get to a point, I mean, at some point you need new information, you need new data.

This is what X, this isn't the theory about X, right? About Twitter is that a big part of it. And now there's like this X AI integration, which we talked about, I think last week, which I actually have seen in is a little bit actually is a little bit useful. Oh, on X, like on X, where it has a little like what what what people are talking about, or it's like a little prompt, which actually is like, I mean, some of the prompts are really

stupid because they're based on like a bad tweet, but some of them are actually pretty helpful. Like I saw one about Andrew Tate and he's like, Andrew Tate was like, oh, I didn't get charged with rape or something like, you know, he's like saying that he wasn't. And then it's like the ex AI prompt was like like what are the charges against Andrew Tate or whatever? And it was like, oh, this is pretty helpful actually like to put context around like what his tweet is saying yeah, anyhow, but but this but that and and presumably like anybody would be looking at tick-tock is like just like the Chinese is

Seeing like a big pool of data data. Here's people are producing content, they're saying things, you're seeing human interaction, and it's being generated every day. It's by hundreds of millions of new data points or whatever. There's a little bit of like, yeah, I assume funding local newsrooms. Yeah, it's a marketing ploy for sure. Probably a data thing. Like I assume like funding local newsrooms. Yeah, it's a marketing ploy for sure

Probably a data thing. I mean, I don't I don't think we can ascribe like nefarious I think I'm not always like everything the tech companies do is evil. Like I don't feel that way I actually love technology and I mean I think even though AI has a long way to go before it's like truly Like what it can be. I'm not like it's nothing. I just think, and I don't think that Sam Altman is inherently an evil person who's trying to do something bad. I think he's a businessman who's trying to make money and has some exciting ideas that he thinks are really important. And he's trying to prove to everybody else that they're important. And I think the local news thing is just sort of like,

let's make a few bets, right? Like if you've got more money than God, you can just make bets all over the place. So I just like, it's just like they're just trying, here's another way to get data, here's another way to market ourselves, here's another way to answer questions for our search engine.

But anyway, I don't know. Gain goodwill among the media elite. I mean, it would be, who will fund journalism? We put out a chart today that's like the most trusted professions. Oh God, that was brutal. Like newspaper reporter, whatever that is. I was like below our salesmen or something. No, it's not that low, but it's low.

It's low. And the actually what's interesting is that it's not the trust is that the trust is not high, it's that the distrust or the mistrust is really high. Um, and, uh, the lowest I think is lobbyists and then right above that is Congress, which is incredible. We're above politicians, so I was like, all right. Now we're way above politicians, I think.

But it's, but you know, I was actually thinking about this yesterday. All it really takes, it seems, to like kind of warp reality into whatever you want, is to convince people that the people who are telling you things that are true are lying. It was not a complicated thing. It wasn't like anybody's, it wasn't like the Trump's lies, which are just in the millions now at this point,

that his lies had to be particularly good. It's just that he had to tell you that he had to convince enough people that the people who tell you things that are true are lying. And if you can do that, then- Yeah, it does the work for you. Right, and so I think the biggest lesson, the most painful lesson I think I feel like I've learned

over the last decade or so is that, you know, it's very, very easy to kind of manipulate reality to what you want if you can just convince people that the people who know things don't know things. And that's now seems to be our general operating procedure for reality. By a social media company. And it's like, oh, well, it sounds like common sense, weirdly, that of course all the people

in power and the people who control the media are just telling you what they want to tell you because that's not the real story. It's like RFK's shit with vaccines or whatever. Of course, the vaccine companies, the people who make the vaccines are telling you that vaccines are good. And it's like, sure, but they are. And there's evidence.

And there's scientists who've spent their lives studying it. And they can tell you, they're like, this is a fact. Vaccines work. We don't have polio anymore because of the polio vaccine. And now polio vaccinations are dropping in cases of polio are rising. And it's like, it's very simple. And yet, if you simply convince people

that the person who's an expert in polio vaccines that they can't be trusted, then you can do and say whatever you want and you need to do to get your point across. I mean, this is like a common playbook, right? Undermine real institutions, like journalism, medicine. Right. So the big, one of the big dangers with AI, one of the big dangers with AI is that, like, it tells you what you want to hear.

AI has a problem with, like, getting things right a lot of the time. And a lot of the time, you can just get it to agree with you. Like, AI can be manipulated to agree with your point of view. Like, the way you phrase a question can make the AI respond in a way that says, oh, yeah, actually, that's right. And so I do think we need some, if AI is the future of how we get information

and how we interact with our world and our devices and whatever else, and if AI is doing our jobs for us or whatever those things are that it's gonna do, it'd be nice if we were built, the system were built with truth, actual truth as a part of it, not like perception of truth, but actual, and of course people will go well with it.

Which is hard, because they doesn't know anything, isn't that the whole point with the AI? It doesn't know anything, but it can be told just the way like Facebook could have fact checkers that can say no the Holocaust did happen. Like you can't say it didn't because it did. Well they used to have fact checkers that would say that. No more. I understand what I'm saying. They can choose to fact check somebody and say no we're not going to let just people post like Holocaust misinformation because we know that like unchecked that spreads in a way that like is dangerous is really bad for you know humanity or whatever. It'd be nice to know that open AI or any of these companies had commitment to things that are true not just that feel true or that feel good or whatever. And I think that there doesn't

seem to be any indication that that's going to happen. This is like a popular political answer right now. But there's like a world beyond this moment. Sure, I agree. I think that's the thing that I always think about when I see some of the stuff that's happening at the highest levels of politics and information and technology is like, there's a world beyond this moment. And what will it be? What will it look like after we're

done milking this moment for everything it has, right? Like Elon Musk and Zuckerberg aren't really thinking about the future. They're thinking about what can I do right now to like get mine. And I think it'd be nice to see tech, a tech company that seems to be legitimately interested in a better future. Because I don't see that. These are profit-driven companies, profit-driven leaders who don't think that, that don't really,

I don't think are that invested in the outcome of like the product itself. Or they are, they say they are and it's very cynical. Right, they're interested in the economic outcome and the power outcome, but those things don't necessarily contribute to and have historically not contributed to a better society. But there is going to be a future, right? There is going to be a… We'll see. There will be repercussions for all the things we do now, one way or another, whether they're

good or bad or smart or stupid. We're going to have to experience them. So I guess what I'm saying is I'm not trying to give Sam Altman any credit, but I guess if people are going to do, if you're going to put data into your system that needs data more than anything, it is a nice idea that you might go to places. Fund some journalism while you're at it. a nice idea that you might go to places. You might go to places that are known for creating mostly accurate data. Most credible news organizations, they do occasionally get things wrong. They do occasionally run stories that are debunked later.

Most of the time they're running things that are essentially factually accurate, like the really good ones. I'm not saying everybody. So I'd love to see OpenAI fund that factually accurate content. That would be awesome. I'd love for like, you know, but I guess everybody's like, well, it's up for debate. Like, is fluoride good? I don't know.

Are vaccines good? I don't know. It's like your opinion can't just be the guiding light in deciding what is true and what isn't. Like everybody has a strong opinions, but like has to be more than that. Anyway, I don't know. I'm just, I'd be rambling. I'm completely sober right now, just for the record. So I feel like I'm on a, so we got a vision quest. Quickly. I just want to, we both have like dueling anecdotes about Apple AI.

I always think you're so funny. We had a big argument before we started recording about whose I won Social media post about how bad Apple intelligence is came first it Ronnie's but I didn't see it for the record Yeah, he doesn't look at my tweets. No, I do. I don't look at anybody's tweets anymore because I basically don't know I also didn't read yours, but um anyway, so want to give your example, and I'll give mine. Well, just yesterday or whatever, I was like, the moon looked really huge. And I was like, whoa, is this a full moon? And I thought, I'll quickly ask Siri

if it's a full moon tonight. It seems like a totally answerable question. This is a literal, the moon is like very knowable, right? So I'm like, you know, I'm like, Hey, Siri, is it a full moon tonight? And Siri is like, Do you want me to use chat GPT to answer that? Or would you like to search the web? I was like, No, no, no, chat. I don't need to like burn fossil fuels. Yeah, I need to bring it for this one. Find out if it's a full moon or not.

I was like, I guess search the web. And then and then and then seriously, well, here are the results. You're like driving weren't even it was like the moon phases for twenty twenty four and twenty twenty five. Okay. That. Okay. The moon, the phases of the moon are in Apple's native weather app.

So I don't understand. I don't understand. Yeah. So it's something I could pull up in 12 seconds. Yeah. Two seconds. I can, I can definitely say what's the temperature. So I don't understand how the system has gotten so bad that it can't simply

reference data that is contained within a native app that provides. Yeah. Yes. Again, I should have just opened the weather app. But I actually stupidly thought that here's an example where I can just get I need a yes or no answer to this question. It's faster for me to just say it should be faster for Siri to give me a result. Right. It's

incredibly bad. I turned off Apple intelligence. After I read some of the comments on blue sky some of the responses, and somebody was like, just turn it off, you'll honestly be better off. And I was like, oh yeah, I'm gonna do that. I was like, yeah, I have no use for it. I have zero use for it. It has done nothing positive for me since it's been introduced in the OS.

So I have approximately like the same exact anecdote. I was driving in my car and I was like, you know, I have a question. It was like, leak, It's the beginning of January. It was right after New Year's and I was like, Hey Siri, like, oh, now she's now she's talking. She's engaged. Hey Siri, are there any other holidays this month? She's trying to tell you. And then she said, do you want me to use chat chibi to answer that? Like, instead of just being like, you know, like figuring out, like just there's so many lists of holidays online, like, you know, like just could not figure it out without the big guns.

And then I was just like, and then I tried to do chat GPT and I got an error and I was just like, forget it. This is so stupid. Right. You wasted so much time and time money. I'm like yelling at like, you know, a computer with my kids in the car. Like, it was so stupid. Somebody was like somebody computer with my kids in the car. It was so stupid.

Somebody in the responses on Blue Sky was like, how is it like 13 years later and it still doesn't feel like it's like lived up to the promise of the initial presentation on Siri? Because it was made up. Something like that, it's totally, it's like, it really, Siri really doesn't do much and doesn't do much well. Well the expectations have gotten higher in that time and it's also like gotten worse and now they're trying to integrate AI and it's like they can't quite get the two systems

to work together. I hate to say it but so far the best AI interactions I've had have been with Gemini. I don't hate to say it, it's just a fact. I had a, like I've had like several long conversations with Gemini that I don't hate to say it. It's just a fact. I had a, like, I've had like several long conversations with Gemini that I thought were fairly interesting. One of them was like, I was like, Oh, I've always wanted to make this video game, but I don't know how to code, but I know like how I would make it. And I it started like spitting out code now whether or not

like I was like, could you whether it was usable or just like, whether it was usable. I don't know. I don't know. But it was interesting. It was like a real conversation about... Whether it was usable or just like a series of black cards. Whether it was usable, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. But it was interesting. It was like a real conversation about how the game would work and like the structure of like what the characters would be in it. And it was super interesting. I was like, could this actually, because I'm a person who I have tried, I have some very,

very, very minor experience doing some code. I'm not good at it. My brain doesn't work that way. It's very hard for me to stick with like learning the structure of it. And, but conceptually I can like, I'm very good at concept, like, on conceptual stuff. It would be interesting to be able to apply those things to, like, that's what I'm, I'm gonna experiment with this at some point and see if I can actually generate. I've heard good things to this end.

And this makes a lot of sense to me. Like of course, then one of these things should be able to generate code. Like code is a knowable heart, has hard sort of definitions of like how it functions. It's not, it's not, it should be like math, although they also get math wrong, right? Like they get math problems wrong. So, so I don't know. But anyhow, but I think there's like some interesting You know for me at least that's been the most interesting conversation. I've had is like around that kind of stuff. So So I want to do feature bug

Billionaire CEOs going with the political flow? I mean, it's a feature of the system. But bug for us. The bug for humanity that anybody doesn't have, that they put like, I think it's generally a bug for humanity that they put their business success over like what is right, you know, or that your perception of what is right. Now, it's not to say we should be able to evolve our perceptions of what is right. I just think like if your business needs somehow create an environment that is hurtful to people. It seems like you should try to avoid that as much as possible.

I understand you can't always avoid it. It feels like there's a lot of energy being put out into the universe by the Musks and Zuckerbergs of the world that doesn't feel actually commensurate with like, even the business need, it just feels like an opportunistic, just an opportunistic moment that is, that yields like a lot of negativity for the people at their businesses and the people who use their businesses. But I mean, for them has some like short-term political win

attached to it. I don't know. It's a bug for humanity. It's a feature for them that they can do it. It's a feature for them that they never get checked on it. Nobody's ever like, you're full of shit. You don't have a guiding viewpoint about anything. The one thing that I find incredible about Mark Zuckerberg

is that I don't believe he actually has good ideas. Like, he had a, I guess, good idea, though I would also argue was like right place, right time, like sort of like right execution. Again, like, I understand what it is. It's the work of a lot of people, but like generally speaking, he's done a lot of acquisitions and not a lot of like

creation and Mosk is similar in a way. Right, he thought a lot of company is really good marketer. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's interesting like that we're like, you know, we think they have good ideas, but I'm not sure they have any ideas at all. I think you have a lot of money. They have a lot of money and they've been good

at holding onto it and getting more of it. And I guess that in and of itself is a kind of good idea. And that is a feature if you're that guy. Yes. Okay, TikTok ban, just, you know, just getting rid of it. We can't use it. I think, I think we should all, I think it's a bug in the sense that I don't think anybody's been shown enough evidence or reason as to why we're doing it at all.

In that sense, I think it's a bug, the execution of it. In terms of going, let's have fewer social media apps, like I honestly think that's a feature. And if like, I think one of the best things that could happen for humanity would be like we all stop using social media. Yeah, I think they should get rid of more social media apps. Yeah, I agree. I think they should ban all the social media apps.

And I think we should just have to go further. We should exist in reality without having like, without seeing like how people react to any errant idea that we've had or some picture that we took. I don't think, I actually don't, I would love to say that it's, I think it's like been good for humanity, but I'm just not so sure. Okay, yeah, I agree. Feature and ban them all. For whatever reason, get rid of it. Don't ban Facebook Marketplace, I guess is the one thing I would say. It is lovely.

You can ban every... Actually, I mean, Facebook in some ways feels like... It's just so like... I just don't think of it. I mean, it is honestly, it's the most... It's the biggest one to worry about. But yeah, don't ban everything except for Facebook Marketplace. AI companies funding news. Feature a bug. I'm of the opinion that when they were doing all of these deals earlier on, everyone was

like, the Wall Street Journal was like, okay, they're going to use our backlog to train its AI. These news companies might as well get some money while it's being spread around. So I think feature like even if it's used for not something bad in the future, it's actually a bug. It's gonna be anyway. I mean, it's actually a bug because news, there should be news that is there should be a way for news organizations to exist where they don't have to be funded by large businesses that sometimes have opposite needs. Like it's, you know, you get into, you get into it just like, you know, news should be news should be something that like people think is worth funding or spending money on or supporting. So that like it doesn't have to be, you know, ideally most news or a lot of news doesn't have to be funded by like open AI or whatever but like

in lieu of that if the pursuit is like true and factual information like it's It's a bug that news doesn't have its own kind of like propulsion in the in the world right now Like because it is so important to know things More important than ever. And it just feels like an afterthought for a lot of people, I think. It's just like, one, they don't trust it, two, they don't think they should spend money on it,

three, they don't really care if it exists or it doesn't. Just like, you know, but again, it's, you know, it's like, it's like the polio vaccine, man. Yeah, you're drinking too many spin drips over there. It's like the polio vaccine, man. You're drinking too many spin drips over there. It's like the polio vaccine, you know? It's good for you. When you have it, it's good for you.

When you have it, it's helping you in a lot of ways. And when it's gone, you get polio. One to one, I like it. I think that's a good place to leave it. Right? Okay. Sounds good. Any final thoughts for this week? Not a one. Okay, great. Well, that is our show for this week. We'll be back next with more tomorrow. And as always, I wish you and your family the very best. Thanks for watching!