Too Scary; Didn't Watch - DON'T LOOK NOW with Will Arbery

Episode Date: May 31, 2023

Join us and Pulitzer-Prize nominated writer/playwright, Will Arbery (Succession, Evanston Salt Costs Climbing, Heroes of the Fourth Turning) as we recap the 1973 classic, DON'T LOOK NOW! Venice canals, children drowning, Donald Sutherland - this film truly has everything. At the end of the episode, Will lets us in on a little behind the scenes of being a writer on the best show on TV, Succession!! Trailer Recap beings @ 32:35 Mini Succession Q&A @ 1:41:12 Follow the show: @TSDWpodcast on Twitter, TikTok, and Instagram. Check out our Patreon for bonus episodes and additional content! Rate Too Scary; Didn’t Watch 5 Stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and leave a review for Emily, Henley, and Sammy. Advertise on Too Scary; Didn't Watch via Gumball.fmSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. This is Emily, Henley, and Sammy, and you're listening to Too Scary, Didn't Watch. Hi everyone, welcome to Too Scary, Didn't Watch, the horror movie recap podcast for those too scared to watch for themselves. I'm Emily, and I am too scared to watch scary movies. I'm Henley, and I'm also too scared to watch scary movies. I'm Sammy, and I love watching scary movies, and so I watch them so that you don't have to. And we've got a great one this week, and I'm very excited to get into it. But before we do, did anything scary happen to us this week and I'm very excited to get into it. But before we do, did anything scary happen

to us this week? I had, I didn't even tell you guys not on purpose. I wasn't like saving it for the pod, but I had a job interview on Tuesday. Wow. I know. I had a job interview and it's

sort of like I wasn't, I haven't so I graduate in three weeks by the time this comes out it'll be like 10 days until i graduate which is very wild but i haven't been like actively looking for jobs yet um but this one sort of fell in my lap because of someone i met last year so anyway i had this job interview and then we were like communicating after the fact and they had said we'll see guys, we'll see. They were like, okay, we're going to be sending you an offer.

And I immediately was like, I don't want to work. I was so, as soon as I was like, whoa, a job, I got this panic of like, but wait, I want to... You mean like 40 hours a week? Hang out. how much are we talking here friday and i'm sorry i like i immediately started just fully panicking about like no no i can't be

working that's not that's not for me so i need to like i need to start wrapping my head around it because i'm very much not prepared i like do work do want To do it but work also Sucks and Work really sucks because they had been Talking about they're like could you potentially start Before you graduate like a couple days a week and In the moment I'm always like yeah yeah yeah whatever you want And then I was like no I don't I'm not ready

What did I agree to what did I agree To and it's also you know I'm Just I'm Getting accustomed to the fact that You know we'll see if they send me an offer. We'll see if I like it. We'll see if it sounds good. I don't have to take it just because it's offered to me. But there's a part of me that's like, well, you take everything that gets offered to you and you don't question it and you just like do it.

So anyway, it's like a real I'm all of a sudden like, oh, right. I'm doing this now. Like I went to school to like have a career pivot and I'm like oh but that means you have to work and I'm like not I haven't like gotten my head around that yet so I guess that's scary fucking

responsibility and commitment and time so much time they ask so much time it's so much time most of your time you don't have time for anything else if you're working. It's honestly such a scam. It's the biggest scam. I was like, my favorite yoga class is Friday mornings, so

I can't work Fridays. That's not gonna work. This isn't gonna work for me. So we'll see what happens, you guys. I don't know. Working so hard. It's hard. I'm sorry. It's hard. It's not right. That is scary. It's inhumane.

It's awful. It's absolutely inhumane. I'm so sorry to anybody who works or has a job. I'm so sorry. Oh, Lord. What about you guys? Anything scary this week? Well, the only scary thing is that

Silas is almost two. He's fully mobile, obviously. He's running around everywhere. And he's actually been a very cautious child up until recently, where he seems to all of a sudden have figured out that he can fling himself downstairs and see what happens. Sure. can fling himself like downstairs and like see what happens you know sure and um just today just this morning he climbed up on his stroller and tipped it over so that he landed like face first with a stroller i i was literally standing one foot away from him and i turned around and he was suddenly on the ground like scream crying crying. Completely fine. I mean, the thing about falling is it's very surprising.

And imagine if you're small enough that the like him falling off a stroller face first is like you falling off a building. It would be shocking. Oh, yeah. It definitely was more surprising. Because we're as tall as buildings. More surprising than anything else. A one-story building. A small one-story.

A small one. A small one. And then another thing that he's been doing is he likes to, you know, little small children, they love to have little tiny miniature strollers with little fake babies in them. Oh, yes.

Sure. And he always sees that. He doesn't have his own, but there's always one around, like at the park. He's jealous. And this morning he took someone's and I asked the mom. I was like, oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And she's like, just let him play with it.

It's totally fine. So I was like well I was like oh I'm so sorry I'm so sorry and she's like just let him play with it it's totally fine so I was like okay and then Sass is careening around the park with this little stroller and I truly I blink I open my eyes he's fallen yet again scream crying he scraped his both his hands and his you know little fingers they bleed so much so he starts bleeding and he starts bleeding on this stranger's oh no miniature stroller and we're like in central park it's super crowded i'm trying to like comfort silas and like wipe the blood off of him and then also simultaneously like wipe the blood off of this like stranger's stroller again salas is completely fine he's totally fine it's just a scrape it's no big deal but um so for anyone i'm also currently pregnant and i was like how the hell am i gonna have a double double the amount of children you currently have i i think that it is so many people have

more than one that's very normal but my god i would i don't know how you keep them from like keep them safe i don't know i don't really, you know, you always like make fun of people who have children on leashes. But it's like, yeah, like get this kid a fucking leash. You know, like, well, I famously saw actor character actor David Dalmachian. I feel like that's his name at CBS with his kid on a leash. And it's all I can think about when I see him in any movie. And he usually plays a pretty creepy character. And I'm like, I'm like, I don't know, man, I saw you with your kid on a leash.

Wait, who is that? I want to Google that. You would absolutely know his face. He's in prisoners. He's in Dune. Okay. All right. Great. Well, if he does it, then it's fine. Wait. Also, my aunt had her, my cousin on a leash. This was was a long time ago that was pre leashes being hot pre yeah they were trailblazers and uh at one point she was like i'll take her off off the leash it'll be fine and she ran straight into the pool and like she can't swim and immediately like was drowning i mean we it was like all in front of our eyes it was fine we could went in and got her but it was like oh yeah she really needs to be on that leash. Leashes are there for a reason.

Now they make them cute. They're like benign. They're cute little animal backpacks that have leashes on them. But yeah, it's, I don't know. Silas needs to, I was really taking for granted how, because he's a very cautious child normally. Those twos, I feel like that's what they say. That's what they say about the child normally and um those twos i feel like that's what that's what they say that's what they say about the twos those terrible twos you can do it good luck yeah

it is the craziest it's i mean it's like the fact that people do it doesn't mean it's not impossible and and insane like i was just talking my sister read this and she's like it's okay talking about how hard it is to have two kids i mean she's not impossible and insane. Like I was just talking to my sister about this and she was like, it's okay. It's talking about how hard it is to have two kids. I mean, she's surviving, you know, she's been doing it for a while now, but she was like, I shouldn't complete like a lot of people people do this all the time. I'm like, that doesn't mean it's not

insane. Just because other people do this really, really, really difficult thing doesn't mean it's all of a sudden easy. It's very hard. I know. Yeah. Sammy, anything scary? Yes.

Yes. Yes. I had a pretty scary week, to be honest with you. Emily saw me get the worst blister of my life on my toe last night. Oh, it was bad. But. On your toe. Yeah, I was wearing some new shoes and took off a full layer of skin.

New shoes on an evening walk. Yeah. Don't recommend. But that's not what I'm going to talk about. So I also yesterday went to I am getting a tattoo removed. So I went for my fourth session of laser tattoo removal. And I went to a new place because I feel like the kind of laser they were using at the last place isn't the best type of laser for the ink color of ink that I have. So anyway, so I went to a new place and I go in and the woman does does it use the laser goes over it.

It was like not painful at all, which I know is not correct because it's supposed to be incredibly painful. And she looks at it afterwards and is like, huh? Usually it like your skin turns white after. I'm like, yeah, I know this is my fourth session like that. I didn't feel that at all. She was like, hmm. Okay, I'll turn it up a little bit and like did it again and still really nothing happened i was like still not really feeling that and like you should know this and she's like hmm i'll turn it up again i guess and like keeps turning it up and like doing it again and then my skin's just getting red now because it's just getting like lasered over and over and she's like she's like i think we should stop i was like yeah probably and she's like uh she's like well now we know that we need to start at a higher number next time and i was like yeah it's crazy that you didn't know that to begin with um so i think i really really wasted a tattoo removal session which are expensive yeah can you i feel like you didn't you didn't do it yeah we got a call and demand a refund

how did you find this place i'm not i don't like this place i i don't like this place and either if anyone has any um good p peek away laser recommendations for the los angeles area please let me know i did see your arm was was was red i mean it's supposed to usually looks a little red after but yeah it was like a different type of red which we'll see maybe going over it a bunch of times with a lower level laser is better than one time with the high level laser we'll see i don't know but it was really weird just being in a medical procedure where they're like, hmm, I don't know what's happening. Does not inspire confidence. You put so much power in the hands of those people. I'm like, I trust you to do whatever the hell you're doing because you're the expert. And it's

like, I feel like this is wrong, but I don don't know what where is the line for me to speak asking me what I want she's like do you think higher do you think we should do higher I'm like I feel like that shouldn't be up to me but yes because I can't feel it and I know that I'm supposed to be able to feel it she's like yeah yeah we'll go a little higher. Oh, I really don't like that, Samia. I'm really sorry. That's making me very uncomfortable. Yeah. It was not great, but, you know, it'll be fine. It was more just annoying.

How many sessions does it take? It can take a lot. I mean, it depends. It's different for everybody and the colors and the sizes all impact it. But a friend with a similar tattoo to mine it took 14 sessions and this is holy shit that's a real time commitment and it's very expensive and incredibly painful it's painful during again it's not a lingering pain and this one didn't hurt at all but yeah so no anyways i did another scary thing this week, which was watch this week's movie. Which is Don't Look Now came out in 1973, directed by Nicholas Roeg, written by Alan Scott and Chris Bryant, based on the story by Daphne du Maurier, starring Julie Christie, Donald Sutherland,

Hillary Mason, and Clelia Matania. And it is available to rent on VOD. And this week we are very blessed to be joined by writer and playwright, Will Arbery. Welcome Will. Hey, thank you.

Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for coming on. Yay, we're so happy to have you. Yay! Did anything scary happen to you this week? Do you have any tattoos removed? Have any small children fall downstairs?

None of those. I don't have any tattoos, nor do I have any children. But one day I might have both. I've thought about both. Okay, well, now you have the info you need. Yeah, you have all the information. You have all the information you need. Don't read a book.

Don't ask anybody else. What I do have is a real fear of rats. And I was trying to think, you know, what, when, when, when did I feel fear this week? And I remembered that the most fear I felt was last night when my girlfriend and I took an edible and we went to a restaurant, like the best burger in Brooklyn or whatever. And I saw this very, very large rat. So I used to have a particular rat that tormented me. Yes. Like I had a rat bully in Texas where I grew up.

We had this like rat infestation at one point. Texas, you know, anything goes. And we had this rat infestation. And everything's bigger in Texas So these are bigger rats I had this one rat that would come into my room And like deliberately Mess with me And how did you know it was the same rat?

Did he have like a very specific Kind of little face or what was going on with this guy? So I never, I would only hear it And it would like do things In my room I can only imagine It just it would like, it would like do things in my room. I can only imagine it just had a personal vendetta against me. The most vivid would be, I can only describe this noise as like it was pushing a coin across the hardwood floor with its nose. Oh my gosh, I'm picturing like the rat from Cinderella or something.

I know, to me, that's really cute. He was making a little dress. So it was trying to give you money? No, it was tormenting me. There's nothing cute about it. I know.

I'm so sorry. I didn't want to say but I love rats. I'm so... Yeah, When people think rats are cute, I just, I can't. That's one thing. I just can't. I have a lot of imaginative capabilities, but that's not something I can imagine. Yeah. Can't wrap your head around it. I just can't do it. Some people fucking love rats.

I mean, I'm sorry, Gus Gus, Ratatouille, the list goes on. But wouldn't you call Gus Gus a mouse? Wouldn't you call Ratatouille a mouse? Yeah, it's a mouse. Gus Gus might be a mouse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are mice. Ratatouille is a rat. That's a rat. That's a rat. It's right there in the name.

That's right. Will and I went to college together and well, do remember william hughes who was in my class at kenyon so sophomore year at kenyon william had something called ratlantis in his dorm room and he made um a fucking like mansions out of cardboard for his pet rats. No. And he had full on... He had full on rats in his

room as pets at Kenyon. Can you imagine anything scarier? Sophomore year too. Sophomore year, the bleakest year of college. It really is. Just picture that in Old Kenyon, his dorm room in Old

Kenyon. No, it's already so scary there. It's known to be haunted, and now he's adding rats into the mix. That's terrible. Isn't that terrible? Oh my god. That's so bad. Wait, so a rat was tormenting you again at a restaurant?

Well, I wasn't So maybe this is a sort of psychological Warfare that this particular rat was Well I did I felt sort of yeah so But what it was is like we were sitting Outside and we were sort of Under one like Overhang area

Covered area and then there was like this Like other area that Was enclosed that like five tables were in. And I saw the biggest rat I've ever seen in New York. Like at first I thought it was like a mongoose or something. It was so big. It's so fat.

But it was like, but it ran into the little covered area. And remember I was like also on an edible. Yeah, you're taking an edible. That's a terrible situation to be in in so i saw like the first table like jumping me like oh my gosh no and then i like expected this is kind of an anticlimactic story but i sort of expected i expected to see more tables jumping because i from what i could see there was nowhere for the rat to go it was like a completely enclosed thing and I didn't see like a lot of cracks or like places for it to and it was

huge so I was like oh my god this is gonna be terrifying all these people are gonna feel this rat under there and I was watching it closely I wasn't looking anywhere else but it just never happened they were sort of like oh and then kind of moved on and then i was just for a long time obsessing over when yes this is its own kind of horror you know like yeah yeah and so i really was really watching this for much too long. And then nothing happened. And I just found that very disturbing because I don't know. No release. Yeah.

Where did that rat go? And then what does that mean? Was there actually sitting under that table all night? You know, I have no idea where that rat went. I don't, it really, it really checked your bags and things like that.

Oh, sorry. I'm sorry, that's so mean. Sorry, I'm sorry. Sammy, that's so mean. Oh no, I've gone too far. I'm making a face. I'm crossing my arms and making a face. You know what that reminds me of?

What? Did you guys ever do the Honey, I Shrunk the Kids thing at Disney World where they make it feel like a rat crawls behind your seat. It's just air, but I hate it. Oh my God. Everybody jumps up because it feels like there's a little...

I'm sorry. This is like we invited you here and you've taken your time and we're just making you think about rats. No, it's okay. That's exactly the thing that I started to feel like would happen because the one place you can't see is behind you. And I was like, oh my God, it's okay. That's exactly the thing that I started to feel like would happen because the one place you can't see is behind you. And I was like, oh my god, it's going to find a way to

crawl up the back of my shirt, which is probably the biggest fear. That would be very bad. A rat on my back. That plagues me. Have you ever seen the movie Willard? No.

Why have you seen it? You should stay away No, no, I can't. Why? Why have you seen it? You should stay away from that movie. I know, but I did see it. I did watch it. Yeah, it's Crispin Glover and just like thousands of rats, right? Oh, no. Yep. Yep. Is that where the fear like came from? Is there or no, the fear came from the rat in your room pushing money across the floor towards you? The cat, the rat starting a little bank account. I don't like when they do that. They start opening their own credit cards. Savings.

What are you saving for? I don't like it. Oh, God. Your own Ratlantis. Thank you. I did watch Willard. I don't know. You should talk about that maybe at some point with someone.

Okay. Because it's up there with the most unpleasant things I've ever seen with my eyes. I'll add it to the list. I'm wow. I'm interested. And yeah, speaking of horror movies, what is your relationship with horror movies in general? Other than Willard, because we know how you feel about that one. I really love horror movies.

I grew up very Catholic with a lot of sisters. with a lot of sisters and there's like a lot of ghost stories in my family that have been passed down and sort of cherished and preserved like real things that happened experiences that you know sisters share like remember when this happened and they're actually genuinely terrifying stories and so i feel like it's like my inheritance in a way it's a love horror and this kind of like gothic you know this gothic horror like ghosts in particular i love ghosts um um but yeah i feel like i'm part of what i want to do in my life is make a movie and i think my first film would be a horror movie i've started working on it it's definitely gonna be a horror so i i love them i i love them on like a like a deep soul level yeah they seem like such good movies for

filmmakers too there's so much room for creativity and like exploration of really cool themes. I feel like that's why we love horror is some really cool talent comes to make horror movies. You can like take such such risks and be so inventive. They're like rules are so much bigger than in other genres. Studios are still making them. They're actually making horror movies. Right. And they're like always popular and can be much cheaper to make. And yeah, I feel like it's a way to like,

if you have something really true that you're trying to say as an artist and you want to try to get that really true thing out into the world without it being excessively like dreary, you know, giving a little bit of a horror kick to it, I think makes it instantly more entertaining and appealing to people. It's like the movie today we're talking about is very much about like a kind of dreary topic, which is like grief over the grief of the death of your

child, but it somehow manages to make that extremely tense and entertaining. So yeah, I found like... I write plays too and like when I was writing this play about some very personal stuff, it just started becoming this wild ghost story. Not because I was like, oh, that'll be more appealing to people. But just because like the, the truth of what these things felt like when I was trying to capture like some really scary feelings, it just, yeah, it came out as horror tropes, you know? Um, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. No, I feel that way a lot that it's a way to heighten the emotions to like the way that they I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. agree it's i feel like closer to the real feeling uh depicting that real feeling of like it feels like the worst thing in the world is happening and it doesn't make sense and it doesn't feel

of our natural world sometimes like people shouldn't feel this bad and you know so i i totally i get that so i like it was there any like movie you can recall like as a kid or even like coming of age a horror movie that you were like oh my god this is like i'm locked in i love this movie or that like really really scared you yeah i mean i remember like being a little little kid and seeing and seeing like the original it on tv yeah. Tim Curry is the clown. I was forever scared of water gutters or whatever.

Me too. I would sprint past them. I couldn't look at them. That was such a terrifying image. That scared the shit out of me as well. Especially because it happens to a kid. you're like that's me That could happen to me

Yeah I love playing outside I love making little boats And putting them in the water Who doesn't? Terrible Yeah that one That's probably the earliest memory Of being really really scared Yeah

Well let me tell you A little bit about this movie. Some stats about Don't Look Now. It has a 94% on Rotten Tomatoes, a 95% on Metacritic. Really rare that Metacritic is higher than Rotten Tomatoes. This is probably the highest rated movie I feel like we've ever done. 7.1 on IMDb, but IMDb is kind of a rogue They do whatever they want over there They do whatever the hell they want

Budget was 1.3 million It made 114,000 Oh my god Not the most lucrative film ever made But it's a Very celebrated Respected classic

It's in the Criterion Collection. It's in the 1001 Films to See Before You Die. British Film Institute rated it the number eight best British film of all time. Wow. Time ranked it the 18th best film overall of all time. And to relate back to it, I just wrote this is in the IMDb trivia and it made me laugh. This is Tim Curry's favorite horror movie. That's so random. It just says it's Tim Curry. Tim Curry added that one in. Yeah. It's user submitted. So he's like, I'll put this in there.

I like it. I like it. And then just some personal trivia. I think I've spoken before about my first kind of introduction into the world of horror, which was in college. I not first introduction, but what hooked me was in college. I took one of those weekend classes where you go. And in this one, it was an eight hour day on a Saturday and we just watched horror movies. And then on Sunday, you had to write a paper about them. And so and you'd get one unit.

And so I took that horror film class on a weekend and we watched The Descent, Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Don't Look Now. And God, what a day. It was a really formative day for me. I feel like a triple feature. My goodness. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

And we've talked about the last one. Yeah. We talked about the descent a lot and we've talked about Texas Chainsaw Massacre a lot, but we've never talked about Don't Look Now. We're finishing up Sammy's Day. Yeah. Very exciting. I never even heard of this movie.

Me either. Yeah. Well, had you seen it before? You hadn't, right? I had, I had seen it.

Yeah. I saw it a long time ago. you had seen it. Okay. Yeah. There's one like extremely memorable thing that happens at the very end that I remembered. But other than that,

I haven't. Same. I kind of, I kind of had forgotten a lot of it also. And I was happy to rewatch it because it's very good. And it's very good in terms of, uh, especially the editing.

And as an editor, it's like really cool to see how it did pretty inventive editing things for the time. And I feel like I appreciate it now more than I appreciated it then. So I was happy to see it with this current perspective. Yeah. The editing is pretty inspired. I feel like it's maybe been imitated a lot, but I think maybe not well because it's um it kind of it works I mean it's also the

filmmaker kind of has this editing style that can be a little jarring it's like always like five steps ahead of you and yeah and um and playing with time a lot yeah but yeah it works so so well for the specific like subject matter that yeah it's it really holds up yeah oh it works so, so well For the specific subject matter That yeah, it's It really holds up Oh, I'm so excited to hear about it I love when we cover a movie that Is A, good, and B That I've never heard about

I truly have no idea what I'm about To experience And that's like a very exciting Feeling I know, I'm scared I'm stressed let's watch this trailer and then let's get into it it was christine christine is dead laura What on earth was that, John?

It was Christine. Christine is dead, Laura. You're sad. You're so sad and there's no need to be. I've seen her. My sister's psychic. You can't contact people, can you? She's trying to get in touch with us.

She's trying to warn us That music is great Wowee Very 70s That hair on Donald Sutherland My oh my It's a toupee if you can believe it That's a toupee? Oh! That gorgeous head of hair?

Yep I would never have known Me neither I'm going to be focusing on the toupee the whole time. This looks extremely upsetting. Her hair is incredible, too, and all of her outfits. I want, like, everything that she wears in this movie. Yes.

Really, really great costumes. Can you even believe the lengths women had to go to to make their hair look like the way that it looked for so long until recently i mean you were expected to have full like curly huge hair for a long time or just like any kind of fancy hair for a long time expected to have some fancy you were really expected to have fancy hair you were excited to have fancy hair it was like the norm wow i that looks really good also i'm like i'm sorry yeah i feel like this is a textbook kid stuff but that trailer really you know it really if the movie is more of a slow burn i would say than that movie that trailer presented that yeah yeah yep yeah yeah it looked gorgeous like it just like was so lovely to watch are they in venice they're in venice yeah wow yeah shall we shall we get it

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And instantly the editing is very sort of disorienting. It's like going between this little girl who's wearing a red raincoat. It's really little girl who's wearing a red raincoat it's really important that she's wearing a red raincoat and she's playing and it's raining and or no maybe it's not raining i can't remember but like there's like and there's like a man humming and like a boy on a bicycle and like like's just like fast cuts between these different things

and you're sort of trying to orient yourself. And then her brother's riding his bike and sort of getting closer and her parents... So then we go into the house, into this cottage and her parents are Donald Sutherland and Julie Christie and they're working on something and there's a lot of like backs of heads so at first like we see Donald Sutherland but we only see the back of Julie Christie's head and they're working on something and he's working with a projector and looking at things in the projector

and there's this picture of this like church with a little what seems to be his daughter in a red raincoat sitting in a pew but maybe it's not his daughter but it's the same raincoat and so we're like what's going on there and he's looking at it i'm already getting exhausted like trying to recount this but it's very hard to capture the feel of it right it's all like quick images yeah But not like it doesn't feel like it's rushed either.

It's like you really sit in an image and then suddenly you're out of it. And it's not like the fast editing that we're used to today. Like shots are really lingering, but then gone at the moment. You're just like not sure what through line you're following. You're just like being presented with things Yeah and he's not and the filmmaker Is not trying to Um it seems like he's deliberately trying

To disorient you Okay But anyway then the boy On the bike Rides his bike over like a pane of glass Or something or like a mirror Or something and it shatters then he falls off the bike and then that makes the girl drop her ball in the pond and then

sammy i need help then donald sutherland his name's john so john is looking at this slide of the back panic come across his face. And he gets up without saying anything to his wife, runs outside and finds his daughter, Christine, drowned into the pond and pulling her out cradling her and like scream crying but we as an audience are like how did he know that that happened that's very confusing yeah he's running outside right as and like his son is running towards him like dad dad like you know because the son saw this happen, I guess. And the sound that he makes is extremely like animal. It's like, oh, it's like.

It makes me think of the scene in Midsommar when she's crying. It's like, I can't I'll never get that sound out of my. Oh, yeah. It's just like that kind of grief cry is very upsetting. Yeah. Yeah. And some trivia about this scene is that the little girl, they had practiced in a pool and she was fine with it.

And then come day of filming, she like absolutely freaked out and refused to do it in the pond. And so they had to do it in the pool and like cheat it. And they used three different little girls because all of them kept getting too scared to do this scene. Oh my God. And just, you know, more proof that children shouldn't be actors,

you know? Right. Yeah. I'm not prepared to have a job and I'm an adult. Let's not make kids do it And also like do work where you have to pretend like you're You're drowning Pretend you've drowned lagging this pot

While a man screams And holds you And would we say Hot dad I think it's a hot dad We would say it I would say so And would we say Hot Dad? I think it's a Hot Dad. Probably. We would say it.

We would say it. Yeah. I would say so. I'm a big Donald Sutherland fan. I think he's one of the best actors to ever live. I really do. He's so good. And he's so good in this movie.

Have you seen Moonfall? I have seen Moonfall. I watched Moonfall on a plane. I was like, what is Donald Sutherland doing in this movie? It's probably a great way to do it. He kills it, though. He's so good. Yes, he's great. He's great.

And honestly, Moonfall made me laugh. There was a few lines in it that made me laugh harder than most other movies. So, you know, worth it for that. Totally. Wait, that's the one where the moon's actually falling, right? Correct. That's the plot of the entire movie. Yeah.

That's right. Well, it's inhabited by aliens who are really humans from another time. Yeah, there's more to it than... It's not so simple, Henley. But that's the basic... That's what they want you to think. There's a little more

nuance, but... Yeah. Anyway, so then Julie Christie eventually moseys outside and then she... Moseys outside. She really does this like do-do-do-do-do and then she comes out and sees what's going on and she lets out a blood-curdling scream.

And we kind of smash cut to Venice, right? Yep. And some amount of time has clearly passed and... Okay, we don't know how much time. Not really sure how much time. They're in a restaurant.

Well, I think maybe we get some views of the city first to get our bearings. But we find out that John has been hired to restore an old church. store an old church and so they've moved there for the length of this you know uh contract or whatever getting away and all of the descriptions that i've read of it are are you know saying how how grieved julie christie is in this moment and how completely devastated she is, which obviously she is, but I think they look pretty happy. I'm glad you said that. So the same, I had the same reaction when I read like recaps of it.

Yeah. She didn't seem that like, I think maybe I've just seen so many like marriage torn apart by grief movies that I'm a little desensitized to the plot now and i'm like i don't know i've seen worse they seem pretty happy on it they seem like a pretty well compared to possession right they seem like a pretty solid couple and they like i feel like totally they're supportive of each other and like kind to each other almost the entire time absolutely you sort of instantly get this feeling like oh these people are really good at dealing with the grief of a dead child. Like they are not going to. Yeah, they're not going to get divorced. They've like had some really honest conversations. it'll stay that way forever. And the little boy's around? He's hanging out? So I was a little, I couldn't

remember what happened to the little boy. At this point, we don't know. So we won't answer that yet. Okay. Got it. But yeah, they're in a restaurant and you know, doing some work and there are two women

at a table near them. And why do they notice the two women? I can't remember. Maybe it doesn't matter. Because they're kind of like staring. One of them has something in their eye, I think, at one point. And so Julie Christie, her name is Laura. Laura gets up and goes to help them.

And basically, I know she's like helping her get something out of her eye. She's like, let me take you to the bathroom, help you get something out of her eye she said let me take you to the take you to the bathroom help you get this out of their eye because they're kind of going like oh ow ow ow something in my eye and so she goes to the bathroom with them to help this woman get something out of her eye and at first the other woman that she's with is trying but then we see that this woman is blind and so she's like you can't like can this woman help me instead and so she she helps her and the ladies are so they're very thankful and gracious and they're they're kind of funny little like um uh talkative chatty and they're like oh my gosh thank you so much this is so kind like

thank you and but it's also like i will say also like the reveal of her blindness is really used as a bit of a jump scare like yeah like when they sew her face and show her eyes yep um it's supposed to be like a little scary i think like a little unsettling yeah and this is a movie that uses the fact of disability as a jump scare a couple a key times, I would say. Interesting. Doesn't age well, necessarily. Yeah. The character's really cool. It's not just that

I loved her. Hillary Mason plays her. Now, what was her name? I can't remember, but she's, I feel like, incredible in this so she looks the blind woman looks at

Laura and says you're so sad you're so sad and you don't have to be oh they have the like Queen British accent you don't have to be very happy you could be happy you don't have to be so sad don't be happy You don't have to be so sad

Don't be sad No don't But this scene is actually quite Heartbreaking she's smiling at her and she's looking At her through the mirror So the shot like structure The composition is really cool Because she's looking at her

Through this mirror and She's saying you're so sad and you don't need to be. She's happy. She's laughing. And she's saying this about her daughter. And obviously this really cuts to the core of she's like really like clutching her chest and like, like what? And she's saying, I see her. She's sitting between you and your husband and she's laughing.

She's laughing. She's laughing she's laughing she's laughing she's so happy this is a great impression this is an extremely accurate it's a real special she's so great I mean she was she's yeah excellent again like I said in this film I really loved her and

so at first it looks like Laura's maybe upset by this just because it's so emotionally it's rocking her and so but then we see that she's actually into it and she's like please tell me more what like what else did you see and her the woman's sister explains oh she you know has second sight sometimes she sees things and wow it's just it's a lot for laura to process and she's obviously um you know still grieving but but excited by the possibility of being able to communicate with christine her daughter and um she faints at one point. Oh, she leaves the bathroom with them and goes back to the table and faints, collapses by the intensity of what she's just experienced.

She's overwhelmed, passes out a very dramatic fall onto the table in the middle of the restaurant. Table falls over. all the dishes break and she is taken to the hospital, but she's not hurt. It just, she's just, um, you got to do a checkup on somebody who has a big faint. Yeah.

And then she tells, tells, tells John what happened and he's, you know, he's less excited. Yeah. You know, he wasn't there. He didn't see it. He doesn't really get it. And he's also know He's less excited Yeah you know he wasn't there

He didn't see it so he doesn't really get it And he's also you know And all he knows is his wife came back and Had a massive faint in the middle of the restaurant And is maybe sort of like I don't love this Yeah and the woman did say We saw her say that She saw the red

Raincoat Which you know Laura never said that. So she did say some details that would be seemingly impossible for her to know. So we're, we're kind of believing it, but John, her name too.

I feel like, like she's saying Christine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the thing that's different, like Laura insists that she feels really good she's like i feel i feel great honestly i feel much better like it's seen and she's she's smiling radiantly like

it really seems like there's been this like whatever just happened was very it lifted something off of her yeah yeah okay yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, it's like a, I mean, it would be like a salve to find out that the person who passed is happy. I mean, that's all you really want to know. Yeah. So she told her exactly what she probably wants to hear. Yeah. And so then, so then the movie ends.

Yeah. So then roll credits. That's so nice. That's a beautiful story. She heard what she wanted to hear and that's really nice. Yeah. That's so nice. That's a beautiful story. She heard what she wanted to hear and that's really nice.

Yeah. So John's like very happy to see this shift in his wife, but, you know, maybe less on board with the psychic woman. But, you know, either way, he's like, oh, you know, whatever works for you. whatever works for you they go home from the hospital and they're getting ready to go to dinner and they have the sexiest sex scene it's so intense um and this sex scene was um i don't know if controversial is the right word but like it was censored from a lot of uh versions of the product like uh prints of this film and had to be cut down to get whatever the rating they wanted

but I think what's like actually so amazing about this scene is that for a long time before they actually start having sex they're just naked in their little Italian apartment and they're like doing work and chatting and like brushing their teeth and like but they're just naked in their little italian apartment yep and they're like doing work and

chatting and like brushing their teeth and like but they're just completely naked in the most naturalistic way like the exact i love that way that it is when you're with your partner and like he's like doing like work at his little desk and the maid comes in he's like oops you know and it's like so there's this long prologue Before yes it does I mean it feels And that's part of I feel like They feel like a truly like Happy couple for a lot of this Very real

God I just I mean I know I understand why it happens and from Like thinking about an acting perspective I'm like I It does make sense that you shouldn't just Have to be naked on camera but Nothing drives me crazier than in a movie in a sex Scene the woman's like wearing a tank Top the whole time right it's like

Act like absolutely not Like especially when it's like Oh I'm trying to think about there's something I just watched where it's like There oh It was beef and Ali Wong's character Is wearing a tank top the whole Time she's having like crazy Sex with this. And I'm like, no. Yeah, no, I know. But you would be naked. But it bothers me. It's yeah, it's it goes both ways. Right. Where it's like, yeah, totally understand. But it's also like, I don't think we really have to. No, no, no, of course not. And also, I think a lot of people are put in really uncomfortable situations before we had intimacy coordinators, which is a very recent thing.

But I also think that like, we don't really have that many sex scenes anymore that are realistic. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't really happen as often. This is like probably the most real, like the most accurate portrayal of partnership that I've ever seen. And it like retains its freshness like there's so

much about this movie that feels incredibly fresh still yeah yeah and this was julie christie and donald sutherland's first scene they filmed together okay well that it feels definitely pre-intimacy coordinators i mean i I think both of them had overall a fine time working on this film there's a little bit of actors rights violations coming up a little later but we'll get there I mean they must have trusted each other like the two

it was their first time meeting but what they had not met and the director wanted to get this over with and thought that it would like. Get it over with. Create that intimacy for the rest of the film, which, you know, maybe. That's one way to do it.

That's one way to do it. Get it over with. But it is. Acting is so crazy that you are just like, well, nice to meet you. They obviously did a great job. That's their first day meeting each other. They really did a great job. It's quite a memorable sex scene. A sex scene first day meeting each other. They really did do a great job. It's quite a memorable

sex scene. A sex scene for the books. Really. I'm just going to look up that sex scene after this. Yeah, I mean, we'll be doing some research. I'll be forming my own opinion. What's especially interesting about it is that he cuts between

their lovemaking and them getting ready. Oh yes. I loved that. So it'll just be like an intimate shot of him like licking a nipple and then it's like them brushing their teeth and then. Oh, that's very cool. Putting on their socks. Yeah. Like it's really interesting. And so then after they have sex, they get ready.

They go to their dinner that they have planned for the evening. And I'm so sorry to do this, Will, but I have in my notes, cute rat. Oh my God, what? There's a cute rat in this film? Well, I remember the rat. I didn't find it cute. No, not cute. We'll just say rat. They do see a rat.

But you know what? It's not important to the plot. Let's just blow past that. Who cares? I blocked it out completely. I completely forgot that happened. Yeah, they get a little lost in the streets of Venice. A lot of walking down the tight little alleyways. venice a lot of uh walking down the tight little alleyways and um it does look like an easy city to get lost in and he stops in one particular location and looks like he has kind of a deja vu and he says i know this place and she's telling him this isn't this isn't it this is not where the restaurant is like it's not here and he looks like confused but we don't really know what's

um going through his mind and then we hear a loud scream coming from somewhere and he turns and looks and sees a little red raincoat, someone in a little red raincoat, run across the alleyways somewhere in the distance. Oh, God, here we go. Yeah. And did we sort of forget that there was like a, like early when we first meet them in Venice,

there's like a body. When we first see them, there's a body that's recovered in the canal Yeah I couldn't remember when that happens But yes we at some point learn There's some like Serial killer on the loose Oh wow okay

Oh no I don't know why Something about like a serial killer in Venice In particular is like really freaky to me Oh yeah All the water I don't know. I don't like it. You're basically in the ocean. Yeah.

The narrow alleys and the shadows. The way the light plays. A lot of shadows. Everything's old, you know. It's like such a specific or intentional rather and incredible choice to have them be in Venice after their daughter has drowned.

Like that's the trauma that they're recovering from. And they go to a city famous for having water everywhere. Yeah. There's more water in that city than probably any other city. Yeah. The water to city ratio, unbelievably high. The water to city ratio, unbelievably high. So they have that moment of confusion of what was that scream?

What was the person in the red raincoat? Did I imagine that? But they eventually find the restaurant they were intending to go to and just proceed with their evening as planned. But Lori, is that the wife's name? Laura. Laura. She didn't see anything, right? She didn't see. Did she hear the scream? She heard the scream.

Okay. Okay. I believe. But did not see what John saw. The raincoat. Okay. So you're sort of starting to get the feeling like, okay, John's you know, he's haunted too. Maybe he shouldn't be so skeptical about his wife talking to these ladies because he's obviously

got some unresolved hauntings. At least that's what I was thinking. Yeah. Yeah. And then the next day even more like quotidian spookiness because like he's doing the church restoring and like

he's working with these gargoyles up like carrying them up the church side and like you know you just feel like oh something's gonna fall he's gonna yeah it all looks risky it's so

this can't be the best way this is where I start thinking also He's going to fall. He's going to. Yeah. It all looks risky. It's so. This can't be the best way. This is. I start thinking also about actors rights violations. I'm like in 1973, we're just doing this for real. It looks like, and like, yeah,

there's something a little, again, a little later, but yeah, it looks dangerous and it looks actually probably dangerous in the filming of it as well. Totally. And there's like a there's like a bishop, right?

There's like they're talking to a man of the cloth. And, you know, you're just sort of like, what's he doing? And it starts to get spooky and Catholic a little bit. Yes. There's just kind of like an air of distrust, I guess, in the air. It's like a little ominous Everyone seems a little creepy And also they made the decision

For anytime anyone's speaking Italian To not put subtitles On it to add to that feeling of Kind of disorientation Of am I, what are they saying And they both speak Italian, I think John speaks More italian than laura but neither of them are super super fluent but they like can get by but as a viewer we're not sure you know

what people are saying at times and so it just adds to a feeling of suspicion and then laura's kind of watching him work and then she sees the two little old sisters. She's like, oh, there's my friends. And she runs over to talk to them. I looked it up and their names are Wendy and Heather. Heather is the one with the second sight.

Yeah, and then Laura goes off with the sisters or she asks John if she can go hang out with the sisters. Yeah, they basically invite her over for tea or something. And she wants to invite John as well because she wants him to... See what she has experienced. Yeah, see what's up, see what she's saying. And somewhere in here as they're talking, there's moments of the two sisters laughing,

almost cackling kind of intercut with their discussion. So there's these moments where we'll get flashes of things that seem to not make sense in what we've seen so far, but that again, add to this ominous feeling of like, if you see these two sisters cackling as they're at act or deciding that we're gonna go over there it's like are they planning something evil and uh yeah at this particular point having just met this this bishop and like and seeing them cackle like that i really started started to be like oh because i didn't remember what exactly went down in this movie so it's like oh there's gonna be something there's gonna be like a cult and i don't

know there's like some some sort of demonic i don't know i don't remember but oh my gosh yeah it really feels like it starts to just like feel bad you're like getting anxiety yes yeah but also laura's feeling really she's really sweet towards these sisters. Like she's really happy to see them and seems to really be in a good mood. Like that she's hanging out with them. Yeah. John says he doesn't want to join her, but that,

you know, you go ahead or maybe he says he'll join her later. No, I think he says he's not going to go at first and i think maybe he's trying to tell her not to go also like these we don't know these ladies like who are they and he says you should listen to me and she says with no malice in her voice at all but this line really struck struck me she says i did listen to you you said let the children play by the pond oh whoa and he

again this is where i'm you know the expectations i have of you know a married couple going through grief movies i'm thinking okay here comes like a absolute blowout fight or like right complete devastation and he takes it in such stride and he you know he looks a little wounded by it but he kind of responds with okay fair enough you know go do what you're what you want to do and well that could have gone much worse but it does feel like it reveals a bit of backstory there still being dealt with. Yep. So she goes alone to Wendy and Heather's apartment for tea.

Yeah, and then they have a sort of seance. Ooh! But it doesn't go how I expected it to go. Because it seems like she really wants to kind of communicate with Christine, her daughter, again. And that's what Heather says she's going to attempt to do.

But then what actually happens? I feel like the way that I interpreted it is that she's witnessing the sex that they just had or she's like tapping into to laura and john's sexual relationship because she basically looked heather starts rubbing her breasts and moaning and she's saying john john and and really loud and it's very funny because Laura's watching like as if any moment now Christine is going to be popping through to send her message she just looks like really focused as if it's not like something else is going on here yeah yeah not right not right and and so she's looking like she's having the full orgasm, moaning, yelling John's name. And everyone's watching like, huh, any moment now, I think we're going to get to this.

Okay, okay. Just keep an open mind. And somewhere in here, John had gotten worried about Laura and decided he did want to come and make sure she's okay. So he's downstairs at the apartment ringing the bell. And then he hears I think what's going on or maybe he gets directed to the room yeah but he

goes up there and hears his name being moaned but then the neighbor comes out and starts screaming at him in Italian to get out of here and so it's just going back and forth between inside the room and outside and he he does leave but he's he's yeah just confused about what's going on we're confused

and so so so he leaves is there a moment when when heather says that they should leave Venice, that they're in danger. Yes. So when Laura gets back to John, she relays that they're in danger and they need to leave. That is what Heather has told her. There's also. Oh, oh, as so somewhere in that seance scene, Laura tells Heather that she's she's taking her back to the day that it happened and relaying it. And she says John got up and ran out as if he knew it was happening, but there's no way he could have known it was happening. And Heather says, matter of factly, like, oh, oh duh he has the gift as well and there we go we have seen John have moments of looking like he knows things or is seeing things that he can't explain

and so we're now believing that he he has tapped into this as well. Do you guys think that that's real? Do you think psychics are real? Do you think people can really do this? I don't want to be a bitch about it, but no. I was going to say. I can fathom that we like there's definitely more happening around us than we can all see. And I can believe that there are some people who are able to experience

more of what's happening around and between us. That makes sense to me. What that means and what that looks like, I don't know. I kind of am on this. I'm on the same page with you. I think I think that the difference is like I I think that maybe people can pick up on more than what is there, but they can't like predict the future necessarily you know what I mean and that's where maybe the grift comes in with people who are trying to

like take advantage of you by like telling you what's going to happen in your life but I guess like time isn't linear that's just how we experience it she says as if she fucking knows anything so you think that people can predict the future well I think I don't think it's

predicting the future. I think it's just like experiencing it. Yeah, experiencing time in a non-linear way. Okay, okay. That's, I mean, and that's only if I'm trying to explain a way in which it could, parts of that could be real.

That I'm like, well, I do believe that I don't know how it's true and I'll never look into it, but I do like when people say like, yeah, like time isn't linear. So if that's true, there must be some people who it's not like they're predicting what's going to happen.

It's just like, it already has happened. It already is happening. Yeah. And they can, they have, they can access that maybe. Yeah, maybe. Well, what do you think?

I don't know. But isn't that cool? Like, wouldn't that be cool? I'm basically like agnostic about almost everything. So I reserve the right to like, you know, be convinced one day that it's real. Like I don't feel any certainty that, that it's not. And, and sometimes I like to think, or it helps me to think about like,

there's so much that we think of in, it's sort of like a version of simulation theory i guess like like the the it can help me to think about everything as code which again what the fuck do i know about code very little actually probably nothing but like that it is well you've seen the matrix i've seen the matrix i've definitely seen that and i wrote wrote an article about stuff, but I, but I think that like, but it, it like, we think of certain things as being't um experience with our regular senses that some people are sort of coded to have more permeability with you know um yeah in the same way that i mean like genes we talk about genetics as code and And I wonder if some people have something that's maybe not observable to a microscope that like a portal that's open. I think that you're right.

I think that that's real. And I wish that there was more research done into this well I also think I think like probably that there yeah that something like that is it's true that's like but that I would imagine there are very few people who are accessing that and so I think the thing that starts

to be like well is it bullshit or who is like when people are pretending the number of people who say they can access it versus I'm sure there are people who can you know what i really buy into is or what i believe could be true is when you hear stories of people um with near-death experiences or people like on their deathbed seeing things like i feel like something about that really feels more real to me I just like

we are aware that the universe is so much bigger than we can conceive of so like if that's true there's so much more out there than I can process and I would imagine that people have different yeah abilities skill sets

yeah part of their code who knows where there's like you know there's so much more to be accessed so why wouldn't some people have a way to do it also it's just fun for that to be also yeah it's like it's like there's more to life than meets the eye and you want to feel that way day to day yeah i like i like believing in things or leaving room for it because it's like i don't know my isn't that the more interesting choice we need for it to like be out there we need to get back to the movie obviously but i just want to mention that um um my you guys know this my mom worked for hospice for like 20 years and so she has so many stories about this and there was one woman who would come they had to do a um they had to like do they moved into a new space and they things kept happening that they felt like were like bad energy

and they secretly brought in a woman because they didn't want to tell anyone that they felt like were like bad energy and they secretly brought in a woman because they didn't want to tell anyone that they were doing this they thought that people would think that they were like crazy but they found someone to come in and like clear the space and the woman walked in and immediately knew like where they were having problems like immediately was like i can tell that like something happened in this room and she was she was like not even from she wasn't from she was from a town over like she wouldn't have known anything that had happened um and the way my mom tells it she was like i was convinced there's something there's something else that people are tapping into i love it i love it I love this kind of stuff.

Yeah, I love thinking about it. I love, yeah, it's cool. Well, and so does John know that he has? Has he like felt this before? Or is it like John has the site, but he doesn't, he's not aware of it? I think he's aware that things are happening that he's not really able to explain but he's maybe not interested in exploring that further maybe in a bit of

denial about it or it's it seems like it's those moments are just happening and he's moving on and and okay i realize that i feel like it's kind of a gendered thing too i feel like usually you see women have it and you don't see men have it yeah it's a good point totally especially because of his skepticism about the sisters and like you know yeah it seems like he's definitely repressing yeah some key part of himself. Yeah. So they get into what I think is their most most like a fight after she comes back and tells him that they need to leave Venice. And he tells her or he doesn't tell her, actually, she sees that he's like worried about her and. And she says, should I start taking my pills again? Am I sounding crazy? And he basically says, yeah, I think that's a good idea. But he doesn't tell her to do it,

but she feels that that's maybe what he wants. And I think that it is. And so we see her grab her pill bottle and pretend to take one of her pills so this is some backstory to see that she has gone through a hard time in the past and was previously on medication and uh yeah this is the moment where i felt the most distance between them where it feels like she can't she's not feeling believed by him and now she feels like she has to hide things from him. But even this is

like still it's not cruel. They're not being cruel to each other. They're still they're struggling. They're just struggling. Yeah. Yeah. it's very refreshing as a writer to see a movie that doesn't feel like it has to

have those scenes that you would expect you know yeah it doesn't have to like escalate to a certain place to feel what's going on with them yeah and then they get a phone call that, you know,

that their son has been injured. So he's been at a boarding school in England. Ah. And he's, you know, it's like you see, like, the headmaster and the nurse, and they're, like, up late, and they're, like,

there's been a serious accident what what happened to him he's something i can't remember but at first you're thinking the worst obviously right because they've had one child have a deadly accident and so yeah they're kind of trying to relay that it's serious, but not too serious. And they, in the phone call, seem very stressed about how they're communicating this information. And I can't remember what the accident is. He fell or something. He's bonked his head and he has a big old lump on his head.

Have you guys as kids ever hit your head like that? Yes, I've had it as well. Just like a baseball on your head. I did that on a merry-go-round when I was in like seventh grade. I was too old to have done it on a merry-go-round and I had like a huge goose egg on my head for the rest of the field trip and I was so embarrassed, but also

kind of like I'd never had one before and kind of intrigued. I remember having one, I can't remember how I got it, but I just remember constantly being like, whoa. Yeah, like whoa, pretty cool. Just being like, whoa, this feels weird. Is it only kids that get weird get it for them or is it more common in kids because of the way like your maybe skull is not so totally solid i wonder i don't know i don't know i mean but i just kids get like big i feel like you see it in kids when they hurt themselves. Do they go to the boarding school or do they

the son come to Venice? What do they do? She resolved she's going to go there. It's too late to get a flight that night but she's going to go the very next first thing in the morning they're calling to arrange a flight and she's going to go and

he was going to go with her but then they decide she'll just go i think she's she's really insisting that he take time off work because she has gotten this information that he's in danger and needs to leave venice but yeah eventually she's like well if you're not gonna go i, I'm going to go. And so he goes to work and he does tell her I am. I'm going to take time off, but I need to, you know, tell them I need to ask for the time off. I can't just disappear.

And so jobs, man, jobs. I know. So just go do what you want. just go do what you want um so yeah she she gets on an early flight and goes and he stays and goes back to the church and he does speak to the bishop or whoever it is that is seems to be kind of in charge of the remodeling that he's doing and i can't remember if he actually even asks for time off he's starting to seem pretty almost dazed and like he's a little less sure of what's happening or what to do like he seems like he's always looking around like i don't know contemplating a lot of the editing style seems to be from like stemming from his perspective in a way like he he um like it almost makes me just realizing

this now maybe like the sister's laughing it's just like something he imagined because he's sort of imagining the worst case scenario for life yes that's a good point. Yeah, a lot of the quick cuts seem to be capturing the feeling of a mind that is not at ease. And that is like triggered, you know, by noises and sights. And yeah, he's definitely destabilized, which ties in well to what happens next. Which is that he climbs the scaffold to like do a thing up in the yeah he's putting some like mosaic tiles on the roof uh the ceiling of the church and this is where i'm like oh boy we're having some actors rights these are wobbly, wiggly scaffolding. These have not been secured. Not meant for climbing.

Yeah, they are moving around a lot. But he seems, you know, he's just going up to do his task. Yeah. And, you know, obviously, what, does, why does it collapse? It's just showing all the rickety things. And eventually a wood plank breaks off above the ceiling above him. And it breaks and there's a good few seconds before. So it kind of makes you think,

did that do anything? We saw that happen. And then it crashes through the glass pane of the specific part of the scaffolding that he's standing on, knocks it off so that it collapses the whole structure that's dangling nearby. So he's now dangling up, you know, probably 15 feet. I don't know. How tall do you think it is? I'm bad at that. It's up there. It might even be 30. Whoa.

And I'm watching this thinking there's no way Donald Sutherland didn't do this for real. And there's like certainly an actor's rights violation happening right here and sure enough i looked it up afterwards and this particular stunt the stunt man refused to do he said it's way too dangerous and donald sutherland did it himself i think not having been given the same information that the stuntman was given. No, yeah, the stuntman said you can do it, actually. Yeah, can you imagine? Him and the stuntman.

He said, yeah, Donald's got his mind. Him and the stuntman did not speak until afterwards. And the stuntman basically said, because he thought there was some harness that was also holding him so that if he let go of the rope he'd be fine and be caught by the harness which is what it should be but the harness was not attached to anything apparently and so the stuntman told him after the fact if you had let go of the rope you would have fallen for real like there was no did they put a harness on him at all or just a harness for fun i think that it was either not connected to any yes he i think he was put a harness on him at all or just a harness for fun i think that it was either not connected to any yes he i think he was wearing a harness but it was either not connected to

anything or connected to something that did not have the structural integrity to support his weight and like a placebo harness yeah like it's like just to make you feel like you're okay but uh it's not actually going to do anything. Yeah. Oh, my God. Wow. But he survived. And also, a trivia I forgot to say is that Donald Sutherland named one of his sons Roeg, and the director's name is Nicholas Roeg. So he loved working with Nicholas Roeg.

It did not sour their relationship. Very fun that he named his kid Roeg and not Nicholas. Roeg's kind of a cool name it is a cool name and hey if you're famous you can name your kid whatever you want keifer for example um but that but but yeah he he's really holding on to that rope and like it's a similar sort of sound that he's making when he um discovered his his daughter's body in the pond it's like really just sort of like this primal like, oh my god. But then he gets finally pulled.

It's a pretty long sequence of him just like almost dying. And also his body is being like tossed around at other points in this movie too where I'm like, oh he really Donald did his own stunts in this movie. There's a chase scene later where he's smacking into

stuff. 70s, man. It really hurt. Yeah. That was how they did it. You get to do it for real. But he eventually swings the rope. He's making a little swing out of it so that he's able to swing over

to a side and someone grabs him and pulls him up and he is safe and unharmed, but shaken, obviously. Oh, yeah. I just had to look this up because of what you just said. I was like,

is Kiefer Sutherland named after a director too? And it turns out he is. He's named after Warren Kiefer. Wow. Film director from New Jersey. Interesting. They must have worked together on something. Yeah.

Wow. That's very interesting. Because now that you mention it, and that is also the thing about, especially if you hear a name all at once, Kiefer. I'm never thinking about how his name is Kiefer. Right. Kiefer.

Which is a pretty wild name. Yeah. But I've never separated it from Sutherland And I've never thought about it as A name This is my friend Kiefer Here's another kid whose name is Rosef He's named after the French director Frederick Rosef

Rosef is in The Orphan sequel Yes the dad. That's one of his kids? Yep. They don't look like at all to me. Wow, now I'm going to really do a deep dive of

Donald Sutherland's kids. Yeah, those are some unique names. I'm glad that wasn't... I mean, imagine if it was Scorsese or one that was a super popular director. Scorsese Or like one that was like a super popular director Scorsese Sutherland Yeah Scorsese Sutherland Like walking around

Introducing yourself as Scorsese I don't know That would be tough for the Nepo babies That would be tough So then he's rattled and he's walking around And something crazy happens. He sees his wife who just left that morning on a plane wearing all black on a boat with the two sisters who are also wearing black. Oh no.

He calls out to her and she doesn't answer. She's like, oh, down a canal. From that point on, he is activated to figure out what's going on. He's convinced that his wife is in Venice, that she didn't actually leave.

He's talking to the police chief. He goes to see the police chief who seems to be suspicious that this guy, John, might be involved with these murders that have been happening because he sees another body being pulled up by the canal.

Sorry, I'm jumping around a little bit. It's okay. The movie starts to really pick up its pace a little bit. You start to feel your heart racing a little bit more. And the dread is kind of unbearable at this point. So he's like reporting his wife missing. Saying the two sisters have something to do with it.

They have police sketches of the sisters. But yeah, we see that the detective is certainly suspicious of him. And being like, okay. is certainly suspicious of him and being like, okay. And so he tells him, I'm going to, you know, look into this and find the sisters and help you. But he also puts a tail on John. That makes sense.

And I think John had told them where the hotel that the, or John goes to the hotel that the sisters were staying at. So he knew where they were. They're no no longer there they've cleared out all their things he's getting really worked up he's freaked out whereas his wife doesn't know what's going on he feels like oh there's a moment also where he thought the i think there's a a bit of false relief after the accident at the church where he because he's he's you know trying to pretend like he doesn't he's not spooked by being told his life there's a bit of false relief after the accident at the church where he, cause he's, he's,

you know, trying to pretend like he doesn't, he's not spooked by being told his life is in danger. Sure. But I feel like there's part of him that's a little bit worried about it. And I feel like after he falls and survives, he's like, Oh, phew,

that must've been classic final destination. Death will never get me. Right. Yeah. I already survived it Yeah but then Things start getting bad again Yeah When he's searching for the sisters He sees the girl in the red raincoat Again

Always disappearing behind a wall Running Just for a moment and yeah and then he calls the school and he's like that makes sense I was about to ask like that feels like the thing to do yeah and uh sure enough they put Laura on the phone

and she's there she made it and their son's fine and she'll come back soon and everything's okay on her end so then it's like okay well why did he see her because he definitely saw her and we see this just made me laugh as so she's like yeah i'm i'm gonna i'm gonna get on the next flight back to venice and like i've been here the whole time and what's like you sound stressed are you okay and she's like okay i'm like i'm getting ready to go and she hangs up with him and she's leaving

the school and the headmaster or whatever says do you want to say goodbye to johnny she says no i already talked to him it's fine and she just like the 70s parenting was different even after you had one child die? Yeah, she's like, no, he's fine. I gotta go. Yeah, then we see that Heather is in police custody at the, you know,

following the reports that John has made. He was a little hasty on that, it would seem Perhaps he should have called the school before Blaming a woman Blaming a missing putting out a missing person's Report exactly and she's really

Upset she's like I don't know where my sister is I don't know why I'm here She's like in this like interrogation room That's really Drab and scary and she's She's really in a state and so he feels really bad and he's he like takes her by the arm he's like i'm gonna walk you home we're gonna find your sister it's gonna be okay he's being really nice um walking with her they get

they get home the sister is there back at the new hotel she's basically like oh we had to stay at a new hotel for a a normal reason like they right right we couldn't stay at that one anymore so it's like not for a suspicious reason everything is you know it's it's not sinister and the sister is at home and was worried and and so they are uh back together and she's like thank you for bringing her home and as john is leaving and also simultaneously we see that laura has arrived back and is i think told that he is like the address that he's at there's a little bit of they're again trying to track each other down and you know no cell phones and so it's again kind of getting lost and not knowing where the other person is and a bit of urgency to it. So we're a little stressed.

Like, when are they going to find each other? So as he's leaving the sisters, Heather starts having what looks like kind of a fit, almost a seizure. And her sister, Wendy, is like putting her hand in her mouth. And John is seeing this. And she's like, it's OK. It's OK. Like, this happens. Like, go. You're fine. her hand in her mouth and and john is seeing this and she's like it's okay it's okay like this happens like go you're fine he's walking out looking flustered and stressed and uh he gets down into the alleyways just as heather kind of comes back too and she starts freaking out about

where is john fed she says fetch him. She says, fetch him back, fetch him back, fetch him back. Over and over again, screaming, screaming, screaming, yeah. So the other sister tries to fetch him back and can't, he's too far, he's down the alleyways, he's out of earshot.

But then Laura runs up and she goes into the apartment, right? Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. And they're also just saying he was just here and he left and we need to find him. Yeah.

So then Laura goes back out to try to find him. And there's this kind of pursuit happening in the streets where he's now seeing the girl in the red coat again. And chasing her. Laura, I think, I don't know that she can see him, but she's like going in the direction he, she thinks he is. She's like far, kind of far behind him, but going the right way. And this chase goes across the canals. He sees the girl in the red coat on the other side of the canal. He's trying to balance in little gondolas to cross the canal and neighbors are coming out and presumably the

people who own the gondolas are like yelling, what the fuck are you doing? Get out of there. And he's basically, you stole my car. Yeah. But there is one Italian man who seems, it seems to not even be about the gondolas. He's like really, it seems like he's really trying to get

John to stop what he's doing like panicking yeah that's what that's the impression I got anyway because at first I was like oh he's mad about the gondolas and then it's like oh no he's trying to help him yeah

that's really freaky that's kind of cool though again that it like can probably be interpreted either way because we're not seeing those subtitles. So we don't know what he's yelling. He's just like yelling something. Yeah. At him. But yeah, that's a that's a really good point that he is probably just like what you're doing is not safe and you should not be, you know, jumping around in the gondolas From gondola to gondola in the canals Yeah or You shouldn't be going after that Girl yeah Because then John chases her Into this like courtyard And he closes the gate behind him

And locks it So that no one can get in And it's such a strange thing to do. Oh, I think it's because he doesn't want the girl in the red coat to get out. He's like trying to corner her so that he can make sure that he's able to catch

up with her, though I'm not obviously sure of the full layout of the place. There might be another exit. Right. Sure, but either way, not a great choice. The other result of that makes it so that yeah no one can follow him so Laura does get to that gate and then can't follow any further

and so then he goes he goes up these stairs it's dark he really wants to talk to this girl in this raincoat. He finally gets to this place where she seems to be crying in the shadows. And he's trying to get her to turn around and talk to him.

Oh, God. Saying, I'm a friend. I'm a friend. It's okay. Mm-hmm. And Laura. And the movie ends and the end

what is about to happen the way the two of you are hanging on the edge of the cliff of this moment what is about to happen oh well there's a siren so I'm going to mute myself oh my god, what happens?

Do you want me to say? Say it! What is it? So he gets up to this little girl. She turns around, and it is not a little girl. It is a little person, a woman, a seemingly older woman. woman and she turns around and like looks at him very

like menacingly pulls a fucking like butcher knife out and slashes his neck what the fuck my god like chops into him like yeah like a tree trunk what the actual fuck have we seen this

woman before well we have we just didn't know that she was... We didn't know. Is this the serial killer? She's the serial killer. There have been people getting killed by a little woman. What?

Who is this woman? The blood is absolutely neon red. I loved the color of the blood just pouring out of his neck. He collapses and... He makes some really wild sounds. His voice work in this is extraordinary. Incredible. Absolutely incredible.

And as he is dying, or maybe it's after he has died, although I think he realizes this as well, that when he saw Laura and the two women in black on the gondola, it was his funeral. Yeah. And so we see that play out now in real time.

He was having a vision. Yep. And his mind is going to all, all these different places, going back to the cottage, going like, you know, the editing goes a little wild.

You're going back to that photograph with the red, you know, that looks like blood. Yeah, exactly. And like the feeling that the the haunting of the red raincoat was actually like a foreshadowing of the way that he would die that he like sought out his own right death and when he when he says

i know this place earlier in the movie it's the place that he dies whoa because he knows it in the future do you think that when he has that shock in the beginning it's him kind of also like knowing that he's gonna die too partially in a way possibly but i think there's also some ambiguity to this person being the serial killer because all of the things that we've seen before have been drownings and the like serial killers MO seems to have been drowning people that's true unless she was just dumping bodies

in the canals yes it doesn't um I think fully do they not have knife wounds I can't remember now but I just saw some kind of debate over whether or not she's the serial killer. But that would, I think, you know, obviously make the most sense. But yeah, maybe there's a sort of supernatural element of like he sort of was seeking out his own.

But also like why the F was the serial killer wearing the same outfit as his dead daughter? That's a great question. Just a coincidence? Just like a fun coincidence for him? That sucks. That sucks. Man, that really

that really sucks. The serial killer just had a different outfit choice. That is just not He would have caused a lot less confusion Yeah I was going to say maybe she Kills him because you know he's a scary Man like following her and then locking a

Gate behind him. Yes and he's been like running After her for a while Could be that She could be also scared Of the serial killer Exactly But she does look pretty happy could be that. She could be also scared of the serial killer on the loose. He locked her in. Yeah. Exactly. But she does look pretty happy to put that knife

on her. She is prepared with a butcher knife. Have a butcher knife on your person. Big red coat and a butcher knife feels like. Jesus. But I mean, again, just she would know that there was a serial killer in the loose, so she could have for her own protection, just be carrying that around all the time.

Yeah. Oh, oh, well, and then it makes me wonder, too, the person who is warning him, maybe warning him about the gondola, you know, could have seen this woman before and thought like, no, no, you're going towards the towards the killer perhaps there's a lot of ambiguity to interpret it which is cool but on the whole i did not expect that to be no what happened be crazy if you did he sees so then we see the funeral happening and then roll credits basically the. The credits roll over the funeral. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Laura's had a tough go of it.

Yeah. It's really tough for Laura. She has, but she, I will say one final note of eeriness. She looks her face. It's a very interesting face that she's making at the end. Cause it's not,

they, the director spends a lot of time on her face when she's on the funeral boat and she I mean she's been a very resilient emotionally resilient strong character this whole time but she looks a little peaceful about it I think yeah I thought that

as well wow that's interesting she's clearly found some something in these sisters, and perhaps this is the path of her life now. Yeah. And perhaps more peace in this version. She is still able to communicate with John.

Yeah. Right. Through Heather. And so maybe the peace that she could find with her daughter, she was similarly able to do with John. Wow. Whoa. That was,

I like how it tied back to the beginning. Yeah. That was, that's like an interesting pattern in a way or an interesting setup to have him like, I mean mean it goes back to your time is not linear thing emily i mean you kind of hit the nail on the head he didn't see the future he just he just was aware he was seeing it all like overlapping it's like um it's just like annihilation that's what it's called right it's just like annihilation that's what's called right it's just like annihilation yeah

my goodness wow okay yeah that was that was really good oh well and you guys did a very good job of conveying the feeling of dread as we built up I don't know that I've ever been more the anticipation of

that reveal was like I felt very tense. Yeah. Very stressful. Great. It's quite shocking. Yeah. Yeah.

And I just thought it was interesting. I looked up afterwards, like, why is it called? Don't look now. Um, yeah. And I didn't catch this,

but I, I guess it's a line in the movie where he, when they're first in the restaurant with the two sisters, he says to Laura, don't look now. But those two women are, I don't know, like doing something when they have the thing in their eye. And I thought that was an interesting title for the movie because it kind of makes me think of how just looking at or just like these small moments of chance can lead to, you know, your death, your death, your fate. I don't know. I mean, I don't know if that's exactly what it means, but just think it's an interesting title. Yeah. That's exactly what it means.

But just think it's an interesting title. Yeah. Because I'm also thinking about the title, like, Don't Look Now as in, like, don't believe what you're seeing or something. Like, he shouldn't have chased after the serial killer. Right. i get is just this basically uh chasing of your grief or your past and the dangers of that so yeah i think that's part of it for sure how what was your different feeling about it this time sammy than the first time you saw it kind of similarly to david lynch films where i just feel like i wasn't fully ready for it as a 19 year old where I just was a little bored and especially after Descent and Texas Chainsaw Massacre which are so

like kind of non-stop so that was the order you watched this one I can't remember what the order was but that would be a weird choice I think this was last yes I think it was and i think it's just a very different horror movie from those two and i wasn't like ready for this type of horror movie at the time not that i didn't like it i just didn't fully get it as much as um i like it didn't resonate with me as much as it does now and yeah so that's why it's sometimes cool to rewatch movies because you change and your perception of stories change as well. Thank you so much, Will. Thank you guys for covering this. Thank you.

I was meaning to rewatch it anyway, so it was very convenient. Great. That's good. That's good. I bet you're watching lots of horror movies right now um um so you're a writer on our favorite tv show succession so the world's favorite tv show i think it's a lot of people's favorite that's for sure the best tv show on television um pretty. How are you feeling about it being over? It's almost to the end.

Yeah. By the time this comes out, it will have ended. Oh my God, you're right. Wow. It will be. We will all be dealing with our own grief. Yeah. Yes.

We will be grieving succession. Yeah. Oh my God. But also, I feel like it's so smart that it's ending now. It feels like the right time. But what was your experience like writing on the show? And what was that like? It was really cool.

I mean, yeah. Awesome. Yeah, it was super cool and fun and chill and rad. Now that's a job that I, that I would stand behind. Yeah. If you have to have a job, you know, can you, can you tell us any of the like nuts and bolts of it in terms of like, were you guys all in a room together? How long did it take? What was it actually like figuring out who would write each episode?

How did it work? Sure, yeah. So the writer's room was in London. Okay. Oh, that's interesting. Oh, Jesse. Jesse, but also a lot of the writers, the majority of the writers in that room are British.

So there's a handful of Americans, but yeah. Um, so, and I had worked a little bit on season three as well, after my play here is that the fourth turning came out or it was in production and a lot of the, or a few of the writers had seen it and some of the producers. And so I was like very fortunate to get asked to come for like the last month of that room in,

in early 2020, like right before the pandemic, I was there as like an executive consultant. What's my title, I guess. But mostly I was just sitting there being like, this is so cool that I'm here. I'm so nervous.

Yeah. And, And it was also cool because it was right on the heels of my play where the actress Zoe Winters, who plays the character of Carrie on the show. Oh my God, we love Carrie. Yeah, she was in my play. Genius. And she was like the, you know,

one of the lead roles in the play and played this very intense, conservative young woman. And that they had, a lot of them had seen her in that and she had already been in the show as Logan's assistant. But I think there was this general feeling of like, she is really good. We got to make that role bigger. So I was sort of seeing that happen in real time and I felt, oh, that's so cool.

It was such a cool feeling. She's spectacular. Oh, yeah. Yeah, she's such a star. Oh, my God. And then, yeah, and then the pandemic happened, but then, you know, heard of it. I was really fortunate to

be asked back for season four as a full writer, producer on the show and there was no guarantee that I would get an episode but yeah I was there from the beginning of the writer's room in January of last year

I was there in London for four months and showed up there every day except Saturday and Sunday. It was like my little day job for a while. And yeah. And then shortly before I left, because I had to get back to New York a little early to work on a play that was going up. But Jesse asked me if I wanted to co-write one of the episodes. And I was like, yes, I'd love to.

write one of the episodes and I was of course like yes I'd love to um so and it was also really meaningful to me because I had been so overwhelmingly nervous even more so this time because I felt like my job was more real and official and they just have such a big like such a long rapport with each other like they most of them have been working on the show from the beginning and even before the show they you know they were making shows like peep show or movies like in the loop or the thick of it like they just a lot of these people went back years and years and so it was it was intimidating to break into that post they're all just geniuses and they're so funny and they're british like they're British, which is a whole different set up. And they're British. Yeah, they're

all British, which is really insane. Yeah, it's there and they've skewered the U.S. so accurately as people who are not even U.S. citizens. They're damn good at it. Damn they're good at it. Damn they're good at it.

Just a heads up, there are some light succession spoilers coming up. So if you're not caught up with the show, you're going to want to skip ahead about four minutes. So, yeah, it was a process of getting comfortable enough to really contribute. But, but, but, but once I started just like calming down and just listening to what was actually going on and not just the monologue in my own head about whether I was talking enough, um, um, it was so much fun. Jesse is a genius and extremely rigorous about every idea, every plot point. So he does so many stress tests on each major idea, including, in this case, does Logan have to die this season? If so, what episode? And just going around that idea so many times and trying to nail down what the most effective one would be. Also, a lot of stress tests against the idea of this being the last season.

Yeah, that's a lot of specific pressure, I would imagine, to like when to be in the room. Totally. And like, you know, the timeline, the season is so compressed. You know, it's all happening. Like there's so much happening in the course of like 10 days and, and yeah, a lot of questions about whether that was sustainable. And then like, you know, how, how, how soon after the action in season three, we pick up you know and um uh things like that so but it was it was really really fun you know i i knew almost nothing about business going

into it i think i literally had to google like what is a board like what is a board we've talked about that a lot in talking about the show. It's like, man, business, huh? There's just a lot of stuff. There's a lot of stuff just going right over our heads. Like, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. Yeah, okay, deals, deals, deals, deals. And the episode that you wrote was Living Plus. The C's are, right? And that was such a, that, you must have had to learn so much about product launches as well.

Yeah. learned so much about product launches as well and yeah there's a great consultant on the show named marissa mayor who would come in and like help us with um you know any questions that we might have and she would she's she's been a like uh you know kind of business journalist for a long time and she so she was very very helpful always available to talk things through or give like specific or tell us what's unrealistic. And then, you know, on top of that, I was like trying to listen to podcasts about it. My girlfriend is like much more aware of the business world. Like she got her MBA at wharton and

she knows a lot of these kinds of people and has done product launches so she was super helpful very cool yeah and but all that being said i still like yeah i never felt secure in any of that stuff when i was writing it it was was always just really, I hope this is... Fingers crossed. Yeah. And it's all changing all the time, too. Like, it's all getting revised and updated. I guess one thing working in your favor is that, I mean, Kendall has no idea how to do

a fucking product launch either. So... Totally. Yeah. He ends up doing a great job but um no no spoilers but um i feel like that it's almost like to a certain degree irrelevant to what's more important just how the character viewer i feel like the show isn't about business business is just like happening as a means to like get our characters through their lives but it's like i it's about

them though sometimes i am like okay sure i'll take your word for it that this is how this goes yeah jesse really does you know his homework on all of that yeah how many how many types of consultants do you guys have because i know there's wealth consultants political consultants business consultants i'm i'm always very impressed by, yeah, exactly that, like the sheer amount of attention to detail and wanting to get it right and experts that are involved. I'm very curious about the wealth consultants and just, I guess not curious about, I mean, I get it, but it's just so, it's so interesting to me that that's a title, wealth consultant. And how does fun even

become a wealth consultant that's what i want to know yeah i don't know if it's i i think it i don't think it's like an official job it's like someone knew someone who knew someone who might be really helpful to talk to and over the course of the of the show yeah they they proved to be like reliable and and have it's it's so much of that is like in the details, like what, what the characters wouldn't do. Cause we're all sort of like schlubby writers who, you know, what size purse would be absurd. The one that I remember hearing is when they got off the helicopters,

I think somebody ducked to, to avoid the blades and the wealth consultant said a rich person would not do that because they'd have so much experience getting off a helicopter that they would know that they would not be in any danger of being decapitated. Exactly. A very interesting detail. Exactly. Yeah. Guys are really doing your homework. Very impressive. Very impressive. doing your homework very impressive very impressive i think the show also like intersects with the

the world that it's depicting sometimes like especially when you go to to um cool like european locations and i think i think some of the anecdotes or some of the like details in especially the first episode of this season when Tom is mercilessly making fun of Greg's date not just the ludicrously capacious bag but also like that she's like eating all the canapes and like using the hand

towels in the bathroom and like all these things that like to a normal person like of course you would eat the appetizers and things what towels am I supposed appetizers but that all came from like i i mean not all of it but some of that came from the real like the writers of succession like um learning that from the wealth consultant in italy when they were doing the Italy stuff in season three and, um, and feeling like actively like shamed about certain things.

Um, I mean, truly that, that episode in particular, it's truly, I'm like, Oh, this is my worst nightmare for showing up at a party is like doing

everybody laughing at you. So obviously out of place, like, yeah. Yeah. Loading up your plate too much. Does she know she can go back for seconds? Load up my plate. I bet those snacks are amazing. Are you kidding me?

I'm curious. Do you have a favorite character? I could see how it might be hard to have a favorite character when you have to know them all and think about them all so much that you would probably just love them all. You know, don't make me choose type of thing i do yeah i i i do like a favorite to write for i really i mean maybe this is just because my episode centered on on kendall so much but um but i do find his like when you're thinking of a character's more sweeping arcs throughout the series i find kendall's particularly um fun to lock into i mean he has you know the the most kind of um big tragic protagonist things happen to him consistently throughout the show so when when you're like zooming out and thinking what can i do like for me it was like putting him in the water at the end of

the episode and having that be a moment of like rebirth um you know because everyone on the internet was like looking at that still from the show and being like oh my gosh something terrible is gonna happen he's in the water again which I was very aware of when writing it. Like when coming up with the idea, it was like, yeah, that's, that's actually why this should happen here. Cause it's his high point. And, um, and to see him sort of redefining his own relationship to this trauma. Um, uh, so that was just, yeah. In terms of like big gestures, um,

I find him fun to write for, but in terms of like big gestures, I find him fun to write for. But in terms of like, my co-writer, Georgia Pritchett on the episode, she has a real affinity for Roman. And I kind of caught that bug too when we were working on it because he is really fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. And his... I would say this season in particular. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. And his. I would say this season in particular. Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

Yeah. I mean, I think. Yeah. And then and then I also know that that, you know, everyone everyone just adores Matthew McFadden and Sarah Snook as as humans and actors on that show. Like they just there's something really special happening there and and they're they're all you know any scenes between them or i'm basically saying like every character yeah i mean that's the thing that's why it's so goddamn good yeah do you guys have a list of like insult doc i have like a full i feel like there should be just all the insults compiled

into one place i mean they're mostly somebody's done that on the internet somebody has to have a super super cut i'm sure that exists i need to see it yeah yeah i need to see it yeah wow it's hard not to want to ask 10 thousand questions because it's just thank you for indulging us I can't believe that when this episode comes out it'll be over it'll be over that's so sad I don't know how it ends time is fleeting you guys I feel like it just started

it's all happening at the same time and if we can find a way to access all of it succession will never end it wasn't coded that way and it also has always been over do you know what i mean sure so true i also i will say that it rewards a rewatch because having done that like yes i'm re-watching it right now as well and i concur it's really there's a lot you know there's there's a lot of rewards to doing that so i feel like that's a clue he just gave us. He just gave us a clue.

Hey, by the time this comes out, it won't matter. Well, Will, do you have anything else you'd like to plug or do you want to tell our listeners where they could find you if they want to follow you, anything like that? Well, I'm on strike so there's not much to plug at the moment. Not much going on. I did get commissioned to write the libretto for an opera

for the Met. So if you happen to be in New York in the year 2028 you might be able to see it. Plan ahead. That's a year that I have not heard discussed yet I think it's the first time I've had somebody bring up

they planned that in advance that's so far in advance I couldn't believe my ears I like went in for this meeting I was like meeting the you know the head of the Met and like it was becoming official and they were like yeah so like the 2028 season and I was like uh huh yeah can't wait it was becoming official and they were like yeah so like the the 2028 season i was like uh-huh yes i think that far out of course obviously let me check if i'm available

you said yeah i should be able to actually need to have a five-year plan if you're if you're like working for the met yeah and if you're working for them too yeah oh yeah okay so mark your cows big year okay that's what we're working with wow that's fantastic yeah but it's cool it's a cool time to to

yeah the strike is the strike is cool and I hope good things come out of it and I me too yeah I hope so as well yeah I could never fucking write succession are you kidding me i know don't do that to us i know pay the people what they deserve yeah netflix art is important looking at you yeah um well thank you so much for coming on thank you you. Well, this was a real treat. It's so good to see you. Thank you.

We always end each episode with an accent. And we know which one we have to do, Sammy. And we know which one we have to do. Hippie, hippie. Hippie. I'm so fitted. You don't have to be sad. You can be hippie.

All our children are soo and hippie. So from all of us here at Too Scary Didn't Watch. Kind of Mary Poppins-ish. Yeah. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Hi, everybody.

Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Too Scary Didn't Watch. If you enjoyed the episode, please remember to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And if you really want to make our day, you can rate us five stars on Apple Podcasts and on Spotify. You can also follow us on social media at TSDW Podcast. We are on Instagram and Twitter. And if you want even more content, you can become a patron at patreon.com slash TSDW podcast. We will be back next week with a regular episode. We love you a lot. Bye. That was a HeadGum podcast.