Too Scary; Didn't Watch - PRINCE OF DARKNESS with Jamelle Bouie

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

A Catholic priest, a quantum physicist, a vat of Satan-goo, and a whole new theory on the origin of Christianity, we're recapping John Carpenter's PRINCE OF DARKNESS! Thank anti-god we are joined by New York Times Columnist, Jamelle Bouie (NYT, Unclear and Present Danger) as he very casually breaks down this movie AND quantum physics for us!! This is what horror movies are made for <3TrailerJamelle interview @ 10:52Movie stats @ 22:22Recap @ 28:25Follow the show: @TSDWpodcast on Twitter, TikTok, and Instagram.Check out our Patreon for bonus episodes and additional content!Rate Too Scary; Didn’t Watch 5 Stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and leave a review for Emily, Henley, and Sammy.Advertise on Too Scary; Didn't Watch via Gumball.fmSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. This is Emily, Henley, and Sammy, and you're listening to Too Scary, Didn't Watch. Hi everyone, welcome to Too Scary, Didn't Watch, the horror movie recap podcast for those too scared to watch for themselves. I'm Emily, and I am too scared to watch scary movies. I'm Henley, and I'm also too scared to watch scary movies. I'm Sammy, and I love watching scary movies, and so I watch them so that you don't have to. And we got a crazy one for you today that I think you're going to really like. And if you would like to jump straight to that recap, we got timestamps in the episode notes. But first, I got to ask

my beautiful co-hosts, did anything scary happen to you guys this week? Beautiful. That's a triggering word for me right now. Really? You guys. I'm going to maybe blow up one of our advertisers right now. Oh, but we haven't. Oh, a little nervous. They haven't been an advertiser with us for a long time. So I feel like it's okay. And I also feel like I really need to like speak my truth.

You need to speak your truth. All right. Yeah. That's and honestly, like, that's why you can trust us. Exactly. Exactly. I don't want anyone to ever think that we don't fully believe in who we're advertising anyway. So I had used Nutrafol before and I thought that it worked during my first pregnancy when I lost all my hair. I thought it was helping. Yeah, you did like it. For real. I really thought it was helping. Okay. So I started taking it in July because I was like, I'm going to get ahead of this crazy hair loss that happens around like month three postpartum. Been taking it religiously since July. It has done fucking nothing. Absolutely nothing. It's worse this time. It's worse. My hair,

Absolutely nothing. It's worse this time. It's worse. My hair, I've lost like 50% of it. It's gone. I got to say, I'm looking at you and it's gone. I see hair. I see more than 50% of your hair. What do you mean?

All you can see is the front of my head. I guess I'm imagining like a cross section, like you lost the whole backside of your head. You mean you're 50% thinner. 50% density. I lost most of it around my crown. So I'm like really bald, like in around my temples. And then I just feel like overall, it is significantly less hair happening. It's okay. It's fine. It will grow back. It's no big deal. I've gone through this rodeo before. There are way worse things to be worried about. But I will just say, I spent so much time thinking that Nutrafol was going to solve my problems.

Oh, man. It's hard to be let down by a product that's really, really hard. I wish products could solve everything in my life. I'm so upset when I can't find a product to solve my problems. Like what the hell are products for if not to make my life smooth sailing? I know. I know. So unfortunately for me, hopefully other people have had more success, but it simply didn't

work for me. And I felt like miracles aren't real. Well, I feel like your hair looks good. I, I know that's not how you are feeling in the flesh. Yeah. I think you look great. Thanks. I love you. Those hormones are just, it's no joke. That's a lot. Yeah. that's a lot yeah it's a lot sometimes a product can't fight nature you know you wish it could you wish it could they like to tell you it can but sometimes sometimes it can't and i hate to i hate that for you i'm sorry that's scary um okay you go. Tell me about your weeks.

I quit my job. Scary as hell. You were scared. I was really scared. I was really scared to put in my notice. It's a scary thing to do. I have another job, which is why I quit my job. And I'm very excited about that.

But it was very scary to put in my notice. And then a scary thing happened that I was not expecting which is that they like tried to negotiate which was not my plan i wasn't like trying to give play it hard with them or whatever that's not the right hardball that's the one play it play it hard with them clearly that's not what i was trying to do i don don't even know what it is. And it made it really stressful. Like I kept having conversations with my managers about like, what could you, you know, what could you want if you were going to stay and what can we do? But I was like, I already have another job. Like, what am I supposed to? I can't have two jobs. And my advice was you should tell them that they have to fire everyone who told you your hair looked better before you died. I should have made it about the hair. I really should have. It was a missed opportunity. But it just it felt like and also, you know, there are a lot of reasons why I left this job. The main one is that I, you know, I in product development um in in denim and i i've wanted to be in design that's what i went back to school for that's what i want to do i got a design job very excited um and but there are other reasons why i left but all of a sudden this week they all

went away like it was like how when you're at the end of a relationship all of a sudden your partner is the perfect partner and you're like what am i thought I wanted to break up with them. And it just made me feel so insane that I was like, I guess this is a great job. And I'm a lunatic for trying to leave it. And it was really it made me feel really, really wild. But Friday came around and I I stuck to my guns. I sat back down. I said, thank you so much. I am leaving.

Sent in my formal resignation. My last day will be this upcoming Friday it's great good for you and I'm really excited it was the right choice it was the right choice it was the right choice but I wasn't I also was like why also were they trying so hard to get me to stay like which isn't to say that I don't think I'm good but I was also like what what what is this just let me leave it was weird I don't know it's a weird experience what's their turnover like there since you've been there I just think they probably know that they're not offering good enough I think they probably know and it's hard to fill the spot and it's hard to start over and nobody wants to do that so I think yeah I mean i get i and you know i'm a fun i'm a fun hang so i get that too but um you know a new chapter it's exciting it's scary we're gonna see maybe it was maybe it's gonna totally suck but i like to know

what's on the other side of things you know yeah so we're gonna try it out. Great. I'm excited for you. Me too. I want you to be in design. I do too. Languishing in product development. I was absolutely languishing. Wasting away. So we'll see. Maybe I'll be coming back to myself, which is an exciting thing. Sammy, how's your hair? How's your job? What's going on? um sammy how's your hair how's your job what's going on um hair is good job what job you know yeah i love that and yes correct and uh you guys know that i love a man named keanu reeves yes so much that i uh got a tattoo related to the Matrix that I'm since getting removed. And that's, you know, I feel very guilty about it. It's not about Keanu. And it's not about the Matrix. I still love the Matrix. It's tattoo placement. We don't have to get too much into it. But point is, I love Keanu Reeves. And I love him so much. And people know I love him so much that this week I started getting texts because he is filming near my house. And so I got one morning, I'm just sitting on my couch, playing my daily hour of phone games, drinking my coffee in the morning and get a text. Keanu Reeves is at Mustard Seed Cafe, which is like a 10 minute drive from my house. It's very close.

Mustard Seed Cafe, which is like a 10 minute drive from my house. It's very close. And I got this jolt of, you know, adrenaline, like, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God. Do I go over there? And then I just pictured going there and was like, I think it might ruin my whole day. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. in my whole day. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, I also think like going to like try to peek at someone filming a thing is like not a good experience. It's a blow to your dignity.

It's exactly that. And so I don't want to know that you did it. I think I would come home and just feel really gross and weird and sad. And so I didn't go. But then I got more updates throughout the day. Like, oh, he's over here now.

Like he was shooting where my old apartment was. I got it from multiple sources. Whoa. People know I love Keanu. And so I got a lot of And he was out And about this week In the

Los Feliz Silver Lake Yep Part of town So maybe it'll happen naturally That's what I was gonna say If I saw him naturally Great

I'm not about I just don't think That I can get in my car And go Look at Keanu Reeves From a distance And then go back home And go about the rest of

my day. It just isn't, it just doesn't feel right. You know? No. Yeah. I think it's, you're like trying to get a picture of him, like zooming in so much on your phone. It's like when you try to take a picture of the moon and it's like, look at this picture of the moon I got. Or fireworks. It just lives on your phone for like two years. And then you're like, what the hell is this i don't need this god or i posted on an instagram story and everyone's like what who is that he's so embarrassing i think he made the right choice i really do i do think so as well um but it is a little scary to know that he was around here and i didn't see him but

i think it would have been scarier to see him and then come home and try to pretend like that was just like a normal way to start my day. So I'm glad I didn't do it. But yeah, smart. But yeah, getting my tattoo removed and now refusing to go see him in person is just like, do I even like you? Refusing to go see him. He invited you and you said no. Just really shaking my sense of self on a Thursday morning, whenever it was.

But another scary thing happened to me this week, which is that I watched a pretty spooky movie called Prince of Darkness. Came out in 1987. Written and directed by John Carpenter. Ever heard of him? Hoo-hoo! Starring Donald Pleasance, Lisa Blount, Victor Wong,

Jameson Parker, and Dennis Dunn. It is available to rent on VOD. And we have a guest with us today to discuss this freaky film. He is a New York Times columnist and host of the podcast, Unclear and Present Danger. Jamel Bowie, thank you for joining us. Oh, my pleasure. Can I share something scary?

Can I? Yes. In fact, please. You are required to. We demand it. Well, one thing, it's scary. One thing, Sammy, you reminded me of a time when I walked into a room. It was like a party.

And on the couch, this was in the Times office. And on the couch, like the weird gross couch in the office, was sitting and having a conversation with someone, Lucy Liu. Whoa. On a gross couch? Yeah, on a gross couch? Yeah, on a gross couch. I can't even picture it. And I had like this feeling of just like complete terror. Yeah, it's like your brain doesn't know what to do with it.

I'm just like, it's shattering my sense of reality. Like you're not supposed to be here in person. Right. It should be on the other side of the screen. Like you're not, you're not really real. And now all of a sudden I feel like I'm 14. I'm a, I'm a loser.

If you are real, what the fuck am I? But the scary thing is, I guess this is also job related. I was at a thing and I was walking to grab a cup of coffee. And I noticed that one of my friends, who's a law professor, was talking to a right wing federal judge. Well, I'm not going to name who is an insane person, like genuinely crazy right wing federal judge. And they're chatting.

And as I walk by, my friend goes, hey, Jamel, do you want to talk about Clarence Thomas with us? In that voice of like, help me, please join this conversation so I can get out of it. And then I dutifully spoke to this right wing federal judge for like 15 minutes about Clarence Thomas. The whole time trying to be like, we're in a nonpartisan atmosphere. So I'm not going to say anything to give away that I think Clarence Thomas is bad. But yeah, so that was unpleasant. Yeah, that's a tricky little spot. That is spooky.

That is a really honestly spooky. What was the right wing federal judge's point of view on Clarence Thomas? Oh, he loves support. He thinks he's like the greatest, the greatest guy who ever lived. Oh, the embodiment of the Constitution. That's did your did your slip out of the conversation? Five minutes later. Wow.

And you were stuck for an additional 10 minutes. But they had probably already been in it for a while, I guess. So they were just like, please, please, God. I mean, she deserved to get out of there for a bit. She needed to get out of there. Was it Emily Bazelon? It was not Emily Bazelon. He's a law professor and she and...

Okay, so I have to say before we truly get into it, Jamal, I'm such a huge fan of yours. I cannot believe you're on our podcast right now. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. You're doing great. Thank you. You don't need to be nervous.

I wore my Star Trek Academy, Starfleet Academy hat just to sort of like let people know I'm not a serious person. Okay. I, my first like podcast obsession was Slate Political Gap Fest. For like 10 years, I listened weekly and you were a frequent guest, obviously. And so I've been listening to you for a long time and I'm just so glad you're here. Thank you for joining us. Oh, it's my pleasure. Well, what's your relationship to horror movies?

You know, are you a fan? That's the only question I could think to ask. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It ends there. I am a fan of horror movies, but not in like, it's weird, not in like a lifelong horror fan. But then as I say that, I like flashback to watching like Slumber Party Massacre 3 at my friend's house when I'm like 14, 13 actually. So like I've been watching horror movies a long time, but I don't think I'd ever call myself a horror movie fan until relatively recently. ever call myself a horror movie fan until relatively recently when i this may have been during the pandemic at some point in the last like five years i was like i've never seen all

of the nightmare and elm tree movies i've never seen all of the uh halloween movies i've never seen all the friday the 13th like so on and so forth so i just sort of like started watching them and i kind of marathon and ended up you, knocking out like six or seven of these franchises and came to really appreciate like horror movies and really like them and really like kind of the whole thing. So I call myself a horror fan now, but I'm not like I'm not someone who has like a lifelong love. And although I think I know more than the typical movie watcher i wouldn't call myself like an expert either yeah which is your favorite of the franchises i have not watched any of them all the way through yet either so this is inspiring i so i think i think my favorite of like the classic franchises really is the nightmare on elm street series um which

like its average quality is pretty high freddy is just kind of like a great character like i love that guy he's funny he's so fun although i do think michael myers is funny personally yeah emily has a weird thing with michael myers that we're still trying to unpack i don't think he's trying to be but i think he's very funny. He loves to stand there and look at you. His vibe is so funny. I do think it's really funny in the first Halloween when he's just like driving in the car and sort of like, he's just

driving like a dude. He's just the most obvious guy that there's ever been. Anyway. I get that. No, I like Freddy a lot, but then those movies, you know, like the first one is a classic and the third and fourth ones are actually like really good and fun. And the last one or the last sort of like proper one, A New Nightmare, is terrific. And, you know, I don't know.

I just I like I like the cast of actors that come back and are recurring in the series. And I like all the craziness of it um so nightmare on elm street but then of like various other franchises there are things that i i like quite a bit so i really like leprechaun in the hood oh which is like weirdly kind of great okay it's weirdly sort of like hey if you've watched uh watched Manus to Society or New Jack City, put on Leprechaun in the Hood. Okay. I mean, St. Patrick's Day coming up.

Yeah, it kind of fits. That's true. I like Hellraiser quite a bit. The rest of the one aren't very good, but I love Hellraiser. I love Hellraiser. I like the Saw movies a lot. That's actually kind of a problem because I frequently say to my kids, you want to play a game? No, that's not okay.

That is illegal. No, you're allowed. You're allowed. That's very funny. I have watched the second of The Nightmare on Elm Street, but I stopped there and I've heard the third is really fun. And so I think I'm going to continue with that one. I'm feeling inspired. You should go for it. Because I feel like I associate... I know the Jason ones go really off the rails and are mostly just bad and not even fun bad, even though the titles are so incredible. Like Jason Takes

Manhattan, like how could that not be a perfect film? Right. But he's like in Manhattan for 10 minutes. He's like in Midtown for five minutes. Oh, what a lie. It mostly takes place on a boat. And like those five minutes are pretty great. It's pretty cool when he's in New York, but you know, you're thinking, you're thinking, yeah, I said it would be the whole thing. Right. You're thinking Jason's going to be, he's going to be like, you know, in the West Village. He's going to be, you know.

Yeah, let him see the city, you know? It's going to be like a Law and Order episode. Yeah, put him on the train. Get him over to Brooklyn. Like, I want to see him going all around. I mean, I am a, we call ourselves vessel heads here on the podcast. So him being on a boat is also pretty interesting to me. So I don't know.

Now I'm confused. Cause yeah, I always assumed that all of the franchises got kind of bad and unwatchable. And I think some of them probably are, but I think there's probably a little bit of merit in all of them. Yeah. There's merit in all of them. And often I find they start getting like in the the case of the Friday the 13th, they kind of just, it's like doing the same thing over and over again. Until Jason X, the one that's in space, which I actually think is kind of good.

People think it's terrible, but I think it's like, oh, this is sort of interesting. But a lot of them, they end up getting just deeper in their mythologies, which can be good or bad. But a lot of them, they end up getting just deeper in their mythologies, which can be good or bad. Like in the case of Nightmare on Elm Street, it gets really deep into sort of like the mythology of Freddy. And I don't think that's very compelling. Just I don't care about the mythology. I just want to see this kid like I just want to see this guy kill kids like kill teens. So whatever you do to get me to a point where Freddy's in some teen's dream and he's like, you like video games and he plays them and the kid, I don't know, dies in like a Mario level. Like, that is what I want.

Yes. Yes. Sometimes the mythology kind of becomes so convoluted that I find it enjoyable in the Saw movies by like Saw 4 or 5. It's just like, It's like this hyper Melodramatic thing And I think that's I find that compelling Yeah my partner just did a project where he watched

All of the Saw movies over the span of like Two weeks and he really got deep In that whole World and it sort of took over his brain In an interesting way He and I went and saw X or Saw 10 together. And I was like, okay, tell me everything I need to know.

Because I had only seen Saw 1 and Saw 2. And it's like, oh, you don't need to know any of it, actually. He like spent a long time telling it to me. And then during the movie, I was like, oh, it didn't reference really any of that. I mean, I think there was like maybe one or two that I didn't catch, but made me laugh. Just I guess one last on this point the franchise i'd like to see come back is final destination yes yes wait i think it might be i think it is is there another one i think there might be one in the works not confirmed it's at least rumored because we've had this conversation before yes final destination is a perfect franchise i love it to your point i

just want to see the the kooky little ways death is going to make people being flattened by panes of glass and be like, it's going to be this. Just kidding. Nope. It's you're flattened by a pane of glass. Like, that's all I want over and over and over again. Absolutely pancaked. Yeah, I think it's coming back. Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. We love Final Destination. Yeah, I think it's coming back. Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. We love Final Destination. Well, Jamel, you picked this movie, Prince of Darkness. Could you tell us your relationship with this movie? What made you choose it?

I'm a big John Carpenter fan. Love John Carpenter. That is like a lifelong thing. I remember seeing Escape from New York with my dad. We read it on Blockbuster and watched it. And this is my favorite Carpenter movie. I don't think it's the best John Carpenter movie, but it is my personal favorite. Some of that is because I think that even if it's not like the absolute pinnacle of its work, I feel like it's like the most Carpenter Carpenter movie.

It's like total guerrilla filmmaking, right? Sort of like, you know, we're just in this one building as cheap as i can possibly make it uh every effect we're gonna do in camera um uh we're gonna have like carpenter's preoccupation with like strange metaphysical stuff but also science it's sort of like all of john carpenter's like little things in a single movie uh and i really uh i really like that um and i also just find it as a kid who uh grew up very much in church like i was like a church kid um anything that's sort of like hey maybe demons are real uh actually kind of i find quite spooky yes we've heard that before from uh like previous guests that if you're raised with you know a religious upbringing that religious horror tends to still like it never really leaves

you it's a very interesting thing so in this case you know demons being a vat of goo of ectoplasm Okay, I'm intrigued. That is the manifestation of Satan on Earth. And it drives everyone insane. That to me is pretty scary. There's some scary stuff in this movie. Yeah, I was scared as well. This was my first time seeing it. I hadn't even heard of it. It's the second movie in John Carenter's apocalypse trilogy so the first is

the thing so obviously i oh love the thing had heard of that seen that and the third is in the mouth of madness which is one that we get requested a lot we will be doing eventually we will be doing great movie great movie oh i'm so glad we're doing this before we do that because that's been on our list for a while joel really wants to uh do that with us um and i'm so glad we're doing this before we do that, because that's been on our list for a while. Joel really wants to do that with us. And I'm so glad we get to get the middle of the trilogy. Yeah, me too. I'm very glad you picked this, because, yeah, I didn't even know it existed. I'll give us some trivia before we get into the recap.

This movie has a 62% on Rotten Tomatoes, 50% on Metacritic, and a 6.7 on IMDb. Kind of harsh ratings. I was a little surprised by that. Budget was $3 million, made $14.2 million. And this was, John Carpenter made this independently after Big Trouble in Little China didn't do well financially. I love Big Trouble in Little China. And he was frustrated working with the studios So I think kind of Probably like you were saying Jamel It probably was him just being like I'm going to make the movie that I want to make

Yeah that makes sense why it would feel that way If he just did it all his own I feel like one of the I don't know if he would call this sad But one of the funny things about his career He does one of these small Inexpensive Really fun movies They're career, and it's sort of like he does one of these small, you know, inexpensive, like really fun movies. They are hits.

They make a ton of money. And the studios are like, hey, you want like real money to make like a big movie? And he's like, yeah, sure. And then he does it and no one likes it. It does feel like that's an interesting cycle that happened. Like, I feel like a similar thing happened with Robert Eggers for The Northman. Yeah, where all of a sudden he had

this huge studio budget and it was like, I don't feel like it hit the same way his previous movies did. Money doesn't solve creativity problems. Wow, money, products don't solve everything, money doesn't solve everything. What the fuck is going on? I don't know what to believe.

The promise of capitalism isn't working? I don't know. That can't be it. No. So there are a number of actors in this film that John Carpenter had worked with before and continue to work with again, likeald pleasance is um in halloween and escape from new york and dennis dunn and victor wong were both in big trouble in little china he apparently specifically casted soap opera actors um because they would be accustomed to

working very quickly oh that's so smart able to get a lot done in a very short amount of time. And also they're not, they're like seasoned, but they're not really familiar to most people. So if someone like dies on screen, it's like, it can be surprising. Oh, I love that. That's so smart. I was just listening to Tina Fey on Las Culturistas, and she was saying that

their favorite people to have on SNL, their favorite hosts, always had a background in soaps because they knew how to give big reactions. They took direction really well and they were also used to working really fast. This is coming up, man. Interesting. Soap stars.

Very cool. Unsung heroes. Unsung heroes of the entertainment world. Okay. So, usually we would watch the trailer right now, but this trailer shows the end of the movie. So, we're going to save that for the end of the episode. If you want to watch our trailer reaction, you can go to our Patreon at patreon.com slash TSDW podcast. So, yeah. Without further ado, let's get into this

recap. Do we all feel ready? Prince of Darkness? Satan Slime? I can't wait. I can't wait. Satan Slime also sounds like a beverage. You know? Yes. From like specifically the 80s. Late 80s, early 90s.

Satan Slime. Alright, let's do it it in the past few years i have hit a point where i only want to be wearing clothes that are comfortable it happened it happened to me but you know what i still also want to look cute and these are two desires that are often extremely opposing and i don't want to have to sacrifice i both. I want comfort and I want to feel cute and confident. And guess what? Skims has freaking done it again with their soft lounge collection. I am currently very, very obsessed with, I have the soft lounge tank and boxer set.

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It's incredible. So go to buyraycon.com slash too scary today to get 20 to 40% off site-wide. That's right, you'll get up to 40% off everything on Raycon's website when you go to buyraycon.com slash too scary. So we begin with a priest dying or seemingly already dead, holding a small chest in his hands. There's a shot of a moon and, you know, a John Carpenter score playing and another priest arrives. This is Donald Pleasance. His character is not given a name. He'll just be referred to as the priest. And he discovers this other dead priest and finds a little journal with some writing in it. And we see a phrase that says the sleeper awakens. There's a skeleton key inside of this chest that the priest was holding. It's kind of a ominous tone here. Something weird is going on. Yeah. Really have to emphasize the score is just sort of going crazy this entire time. Like, I think for like the first 25 minutes of this movie, like the score is almost constant. The carpenter, like the pulsating synthesized score.

Yeah, and like keys that all of a sudden go like, you know, like a cat walked on the piano sort of vibe. Which does create this sort of like anxiety or sort of like, what is actually happening in this movie? But Donald Pleasance, he redeemed the scroll. The priest who died belonged to something called the Brotherhood of Sleep. And the note brings him to an abandoned parish or monastery in Los Angeles where there is something inside. But you don't know what that thing is yet.

There is something inside, but you don't know what that thing is yet. I believe at this point, it sort of would cut to a college campus or something, a university campus. We see Victor Wong sort of walking, I guess, into his classroom. The camera cuts and shows you some ants with unusual activity. Yeah, a lot of ants. It's grossed me out. A lot of ants behaving strangely. Perhaps it's a sign of something to come.

But we are introduced to Victor Wong's, Professor Howard Byrack's physics class, a bunch of physics grad students, all very young, pretty good looking, and he is giving a physics lesson. I was trying to comprehend this lesson, which was, it didn't work out great for me. He's talking a bit about how our perception of time is not correct and our logic of the universe is like not what we thought. All very scary, scary ideas. He's alluding. I'm going to reveal myself to be a big nerd.

This is in the 80s or around the time where there are these like breakthroughs being made and sort of like theoretical physics. And he's describing like a set of theories about the behavior of atoms at the subatomic level. And the idea basically being the law of general relativity basically makes sense for everything in the realm of larger objects. There's a set of rules that are consistent when it comes to larger objects, larger celestial bodies, that kind of thing. But when you get really into the tiniest things, very small, subatomic level, all those laws completely break down. Things stop making sense. And so, the classic example of this is how light can behave as both like a wave and a set of particles.

And it's sort of like according to general relativity, this shouldn't really work. But it is a thing that is true. And so, there's a lot of work that's being done in the 70s and 80s and the 90s basically trying to figure out like why and developing theories to explain why. And so, the whole monologue he gives is like an allusion to all of that stuff. Yeah. an allusion to all of that stuff. Yeah. He talked,

he talked about like how time for us moves in an arrow in one direction. You're born, you age, you die. And yeah, that's not necessarily true at a, what does he say? He says, fruit rots,

water goes downstream. Facts, just straight up facts that we know. I want to say real quick, Victor Wong, an actor who I most recognize from the Three Ninjas franchise. The kid power movies from the 90s. Oh! He plays the Asian grandfather of these three white boys. It's not really explained.

Yep. We were making really interesting choices at that time yeah i i just to recognize him from big trouble little china also great you're just gonna keep saying that i like that movie it's a good movie if we leave this episode with one thing it's sammy likes big trouble little china so uh donald pleasance reaches out to Victor Wong's character and is basically sort of like, listen, there's something crazy in this church. And I want you guys to check it out. I want your team of physicists to come by and to see what the what is and to study this. Not often seen combo priests reaching out to a scientist.

No, no. But this, I guess the movie suggests that Victor Wong, you know, he's been in dialogue with religious authorities in the past. He's sort of open minded. And so and I think they have a prior relationship. So it's sort of like, I want I want your physicist to come and help out. And it's at this point that we begin to meet some of the physics students. Sort of our kind of protagonist is Jameson Parker's character, Brian Marsh.

He has a great handlebar mustache. And, you know, he's just like a white guy in the 80s. I don't know. Pretty standard white guy. Yeah. Pretty standard. We meet Lisa Blount as Catherine Danforth. Sort of like they have a relationship going.

So I like this movie a lot. It is problematic occasionally. And one problematic point is when Lisa and Brian are talking. Or Catherine and Brian are talking and or Catherine and Brian are talking. Yeah. And, you know, Brian says something very sexist and she's like, that was very sexist. He's like, well, that's me. Certified sexist.

It's like. This part really threw me. When you could just write that in a script and be like, that's good writing. The director would say it and be like, what's the problem? He says, confirmed sexist and proud of it. Right, that's right. That's how he's flirting with her. It's clear he has a big crush on her

and that's how he's deciding to flirt with her and she shuts down. And he's like, what's the problem? And he kind of talks her out of it and she's like, you're right, never mind. Yeah, let's go on a date. No, it's pretty cool. I think it's good.

Very strange. But the other physics students are Dennis Dunn as Walter Fong, Susan Blanchard as Kelly, Ann Howard as Susan, Ann Yen as Lisa, Ken Wright as Lomax, Dirk Blocker as Mullins. I always love it when I see Dirk Blocker and stuff, because it's sort of like, oh, yeah, you're the guy from Brooklyn Nine-Nine, and you have like a real career. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's also, what a great name.

Great name. Yes. Dirk. Dirk Blocker. Hell yeah. Jesse Lawrence Ferguson as Calder. Peter Jason as Dr. Leahy. And then Robert Grasmere, who is actually the stunt coordinator for the movie, as Frank.

Yeah, there's kind of a lot of people, but they're basically all have different specialties that will come in handy. And we're all investigating whatever's going on in here. So there's a bit of either at the university, they're discussing this. The score, I gotta emphasize, is still just like full blast. Oh, something to remember. Also a strange thing happening at this church are the homeless people around it are behaving very weirdly.

Behaving in like unusual ways. So that's something to, that's important. Kind of staring eerily at anyone who comes in and out of the building. One woman has ants crawling on her face. She's completely unbothered by them. Alice Cooper is one of the homeless people. Yeah.

That's really fun. Yeah. That is very fun there there is a a conversation between the priest and the professor at one point where he's telling him how the brotherhood of the sleep guarded this place the skeleton key from the chest and the opening opens this door to the basement of this church and not even, he tells him that not even the Vatican knew about this place. Right. This was like a closely guarded secret.

The church had been built actually like in the 15th century, you know, Spanish missions and yeah, so very secret. Everyone gets there and they begin to set up their equipment and they begin to kind of like check out what it is that is this closely guarded secret. And in the basement, in this like eerie room is a large, like person size cylinder filled with a mysterious green liquid man you saying person size makes me a little nervous yeah and certainly my first thought would not be oh well that's the devil yes green gotta be green seen it before green's not the devil color. He would choose red. Exactly. So what the students are doing at first is they're trying to decipher some book. There's like a book full of – it's in multiple languages.

Pleasance chose it to them. It's in Latin. It's in Aramaic. It's in Greek. So they're trying to decipher the book. They're trying to kind of figure out what exactly this green liquid is. They're trying to date the material that is on it. They're just trying to figure out what the deal is with everything.

And they discover a couple of things. The first is that the book has formulas for differential equations, for all kinds of advanced math that shouldn't exist at the point at which the book was written. Like people, humans hadn't figured it out yet. And so they're like, okay, what's going on? The vial, the large cylinder, it's carbon dated several million years old. So that's also weird.

How, why is this thing so old? And what else? Oh, and they manage to translate some of the languages. And what they discover is that the book is telling the actual story, basically, of like the beginnings of Christianity, which is where the movie goes from being, you know, like eerie and spooky to legitimately crazy. So what we learned is that Jesus Christ was not some first century poor Jew in what is today Palestine. an extraterrestrial who came to Earth to warn humanity that the anti-god, which is what this cylinder is, was there and would destroy them all. And he was executed for heresy. And the religion that grew up, grew up basically to sort of conceal the truth of what he was actually teaching to people. Whoa.

That's a real plot twist. That is a real plot twist in Christianity. I gotta say. You don't get those often. No, you do not. Everybody pretty much says, here's what the deal is and agrees. Yeah.

But it's his true disciples that have been formed, that like brotherhood. What is it? The brotherhood of? The brotherhood of sleep. Brotherhood of sleep that have been for generations protecting this secret. Whoa. I am loving this. I am into this.

To be specific, the green liquid is literally Satan. Yes. Trapped in the vessel. The anti-God. And the liquid is also, as a result, it's sentient. It's a sentient liquid. So this is where they got the idea for Flubber. Right.

Yes. In both the, who started the original one? I don't know. Robin Williams is in the... That's all I got. Yeah, that's all I got. All I got is Robin Williams. It's a 1950s Disney movie.

No way. This is going to drive me insane. Is it Fred McMurray? Yep, Fred McMurray. Nice. I did not know that there was an original Flubber. Me neither. What else did they learn?

One of them is analyzing the container and she discovers this woman is named Susan. She discovers that it can only be opened from the inside because they're worried if it's toxic, should they be taking samples of it? It might be dangerous. And she says, I don't think we have anything to worry about because it can only be opened from the inside.

So we're safe from it. We're totally safe. There's nothing. We can work around it without any problems whatsoever. There's not going to be a single thing that causes any particular trouble about this cylinder, which I remind you again, is actually Satan. Satan is green dew. And they've all agreed. They all know that it's Satan.

They've all agreed. They're kept in the dark for a while, but I feel like they know something is wrong. Yes. And the priest and the professor definitely know that. And the priest and the professor definitely know that. And they're being a little cagey about it and saying, you know, like, in good time, you'll find out what we're doing here. Uh-huh. But the priest is very on edge. He keeps saying things like, he's getting stronger.

Don't you feel a presence in here? He can't be contained anymore. It happened last month. The earth is acting differently. We're thinking about the ants crawling around in a weird way. Yeah. Yeah. So whatever's about to happen is inevitable and it's,

we're the only ones here to try to stop it. The, the last thing in this kind of part of the movie I want to mention is that after the revelation of what, of the true story of Christianity, Professor Byrack and the priest are talking. And this is when the notion of the anti-God actually pops up. Professor Byrack says, suppose what your faith has said is essentially correct. Suppose there is a universal mind controlling everything. A God willing the behavior of every subatomic particle. Well, every particle has an anti-particle, its mirror image, its negative side.

Maybe this universal mind resides in the mirror image instead of in our universe as we want it to believe. Maybe he's anti-God, bringing darkness instead of light. This is getting really real you guys that would suck if that were true all i can think about is um god no god that's all i can think about i thought about that a lot too god no god no god it's at this point that things start getting hairy for the grad students um uh one of them after doing his night's work so he's gonna leave he's gonna leave and like you know go to sleep somewhere and he walks into the alley outside the church and when he walks out he sees a pigeon that has

been crucified and he's like i don't know why that really freaks me out is this pretty freaky do you think they've crucified a pigeon for real? A lot of times with these older movies, you can't tell. I feel like it's possible. I want to say that they didn't. I hope that they didn't crucify a pigeon. I really hope that they didn't. Let's say they didn't.

Pigeons are actually lovely little animals. I'd be very sad if they were. You can paper mache a pigeon pretty easily. Then it's paper mache. That feels like the most reasonable thing that they probably did. But he happens upon a crucified pigeon and then he's like, okay, wow, that's weird. Doesn't turn around

initially. He's like, let me go investigate this a little more. And at the point he goes to investigate, he looks forward and he sees Alice Cooper walking slowly towards them. Alice Cooper picks up a rusting mic that just happens to be there. And then he's like, okay, strange, the grad student.

So then he goes to turn around, but when he turns around the other side, there's a bunch of the oddly behaving homeless people behind him slowly walking towards him. And so he can't go back. So he starts to walk forward as Alice Cooper comes toward him. And Alice Cooper impales him with the bike and kills him

oh no i don't know why did you being impaled with something rusty is even worse it's like it doesn't matter you're dead but which part of the bike i know that's what the bike is like cut in half so it's like made made into a spear like this bike was fashioned to be half bike, half weapon. Maybe that's the weapon of choice. That might be a good weapon of choice. It can be your transportation and a weapon. It is a little cumbersome. Yeah.

But no one inside knows this happened. They're not aware of this. Nope. So we cut back inside and the team is still trying uh trying to examine this thing figure it out susan goes down to run some tests and while she's running tests she kind of gets a little transfixed by the giant cylinder of the green liquid and all of a sudden the green liquid sprays into her mouth like of its own volition of its sprays into her mouth and like of its own volition. Oh, no. A jet of it sprays into her mouth.

You don't want that. And it turns her into like its thrall. She's become like taken over by Satan. Their measuring tools, they have like a sizeometer or something, registers a bunch of energy that's been self-directed from the cylinder. But they don't know what's going on yet. But Susan is now a thrall of Satan. And Dirk Blocker, who is also down there. The movie, I feel like they have, Dirk Blocker has like a crush on Susan.

I feel like that's what the movie suggests. Yeah, because he's like looking for her right now. He's like, anybody seen Susan? Right, right. Uh-oh. Susan's pretty cute. Susan's pretty cute, so I get it. She's the movie suggests. Yeah, because he's like looking for her right now. He's like, anybody seen Susan? Right, right. Uh-oh. Susan's pretty cute. Susan's pretty cute. So I get it.

Yep. Yeah. But then she kills him. She kills him. Right away. Right away. She kills him. Yeah, so that's the moment.

That didn't work out. That didn't work out. So poor Dirk, he gets his neck broken by Satan Susan. And yeah, it's pretty quick it's like it's not like they don't linger but it's pretty quick and pretty shocking because he's just sort of like looking for and then all of a sudden like break his neck he's donezo yep yeah so susan then goes looking for other people to basically infect oh okay lisa uh not not lisa blount but the character lisa played by n yen is uh in uh one of the in a room like typing on a computer or something she's like working she's like resting because there's like a room with a

cot in it because this is the middle of the night they say at one point it's like 3 30 it's so this is they're still at the church yeah they have to stay here they've been asked to be here like all weekend long they've all brought overnight bags this is important stuff we're not allowed to go home until this is done so there's a place for them to sleep and yeah lisa's in there taking a little rest. And Susan, like, very slowly climbs on top of her. And she doesn't, like, react right away. She says, as Susan is right in her face, she goes, excuse me, but. And then Susan just projectile vomits green goo into her disgusting disgusting excuse me

being so polite it's very funny to wait until someone is like fully in your face to say excuse me uh one of the characters frank a bunch of them, Frank Lomax and I think Dennis are outside and they're chatting, they're talking. And Frank is like, I think this is all nonsense. I think we're wasting our time. I'm going to leave. While he's kind of standing up, the other two go back inside while he's kind of standing outside mulling his next decision. The other two go back inside while he's kind of standing outside mulling his next decision. One of the homeless people, a homeless woman, grabs a pair of shears, it looks like, runs up to him and stabs him to death.

Very violently. So we know that the homeless people around are also sort of under the thrall of the Green Goo, which I need to correct something. The Green Goo is Satan, not anti-God. And Satan is the son of anti-God. Oh. So Satan is like the Jesus. Right, right. Parallel. This is like the, the goo is like the anti-Christ.

And then there's the anti-God that is in this subatomic mirror universe. Mirror universe, this is an important point. Subatomic mirror universe. Mirror universe, this is an important point. Subatomic mirror universe. So Frank is killed. Who else gets... And then pretty much in quick succession, a bunch of the grad students get... I'm going to call it infected by Satan. Yeah.

Which sounds like what happens after you listen to too much heavy metal. I don't know. Absolutely. They've been infected by Satan. They've been absolutely infected by Satan. Right after Frank dies, there is a scene where Walter falls asleep

for a moment and we see a glimpse of this footage that looks grainier and strange of the outside of the church with a cloaked figure coming out of it that we can't quite see. And some audio voice saying, this is not a dream.

You are receiving this broadcast as a dream. We are transmitting from year one, nine. And then he wakes up and just get a little taste of that. Yeah. Huh. Listeners who are into 90s trip hop will recognize that bit of audio from the beginning of DJ Shadow's introduction. It's like the first thing on the record.

I don't know. It does seem like a good thing to sample. Makes sense that it's out there. Yeah, yeah. It's a great sample good thing to sample. Makes sense that it's out there. Yeah, yeah. It's a great sample. But yes, so Walter has this dream. And this dream, like all the survivors start to have this dream. It's a recurring dream for everyone who is not yet infected.

So sometimes we're killing people. Sometimes we're infecting. Right. Okay. Sometimes we're killing people. Sometimes we're infecting. Right. Okay.

Mullins, Lisa Calder, Dr. Leahy are all, all get infected. And they all start, once infected, they start sort of like either kind of shambling around, looking for others to infect, kind of like. The building is kind of big. So it's not like, not everyone is scared. Right. Like this is usually happening. They don't necessarily know. They don't know that it's not like not everyone is scared. Right. Like this is usually happening. They don't necessarily know. They don't know that it's going on.

Right. Right. Okay. And at one point there's a woman named Kelly who wants to go lay down and she's talking to Catherine. Catherine is the one that Brian has a crush on from the beginning and she's looking at the differential equations. Her specialty seems to be like the kind of math, figuring out these math equations.

Kelly comes in to tell Catherine she's tired. She's going to lay down. This is where she says 3.30 in the morning. I got to lay down. Catherine notices a bruise on her arm. And we had seen this bruise for a second earlier. Catherine says, what is that? Let me take a look at it. This bruise is now has a clearly like a symbol raised from it as if it's a burn. That's a little curly cross shape that would never be natural in a bruise. And she's like, oh, this is just a bruise.

Like I bumped into something earlier and we all just kind of brush that off. She's like, all right, go lay down. Yeah. Have a good rest. Doesn't seem unusual to anyone.

Yeah. All right. Wow. Well, Kelly is resting. Um, I'm trying to think of, cause this is basically where where things really start to

pick up. We're like an hour into the movie. There's not that much left in the movie. We have a half hour left and things really begin to pick up at this point. We see Lisa typing, like unblinking. That's right. There are two things that

happened before everything kind of totally, hell completely breaks loose. First is that who walks in? Calder. Calder walks in on Lisa. Lisa. And she is typing. And she's typing.

Let me find out what she's typing. She's typing rapidly. And it says, you will not be saved by the Holy Ghost. You will not be saved by the God Plutonium. In fact, all caps, you will not be saved. It really made me laugh. In fact, you will not be saved. It's basically like under any circumstances.

Really to catch the chase. You will not be saved. really to cut to the chase uh you will not be saved and then they all attack calder because calder's walked into this room and susan is still in there lisa's now infected so they jump on top of him and susan kisses him and the sound effect of this kiss is so disgusting kind of sounds like a bong honestly it's just like like bubbling water of just, you know, that there's Satan's fluid being squirted into his mouth.

Yeah, but it's a really nasty sound effect. Yeah. You know, there's if I were feeling like really pretentious, there's like an argument to make it this movie is commenting on the AIDS crisis. Because of all the vaguely sexual nature of the transmission of the fluid and all that stuff. It's the right time period.

Yeah, it'd be the right thing. But I don't think that's what's going on here. But it's thematically resident. But the thing I wanted to mention is that the other crazy thing that happens before hell breaks loose is they all see Frank out still in the parking lot. They all go look to see what he's doing. And when we cut to Frank, he's like bathed

in darkness. And then the camera does a zoom and you see like beetles and stuff crawling all over his body. Remember, Frank has been killed. Frank is dead. Yeah, I was like, he's he was the one who got impaled? Yeah, he got stabbed. The shears. Remember, Frank has been killed. Frank is dead. Yeah, I was like, he's he was the one who got impaled? Yeah, he got stabbed. The shears. Oh, the shears. Ew, ew, yeah. But then he starts

to speak and he says, I've got a message for you and you're not gonna like it. And then Brian goes, look at his chest and then Frank opens his chest and then a swarm of beetles appears. Frank says, pray for chest and then a swarm of beetles appears.

Frank says, pray for death. And then his body parts fall off and his head falls off and the entire thing collapses into beetles. It's really a very creepy scene. But he's got this very warbled robotic sounding voice that just goes, pray. I've got something to tell you and you're not going to like it. Pray for death. I love that line so much. It's so good.

So funny. It's so funny. Just prepare yourselves. It's not good news. You're not going to like it. Satan in this movie is very, he's very kind of like, he's a little cheeky, you know?

He's cheeky. That tracks with what I would expect from Satan. I feel like he's always having a little fun. He's trying to have fun. He's trying to have fun. That's a little sticker, that guy. A little troublemaker. Is anyone not infected or dead yet?

Are they all infected? At this point, our kind of like cast of characters who are not infected are the professor, not infected, not dead. Brian, not infected. Walter, not infected. The priest, Catherine. Kelly is something weird going on with Kelly. Sums up with her bruise. Right.

Mm-hmm. Okay. And that's, I think that's it. It's like it's. It's down, it's, it's, it's. And there's this one, one other kind of generic white guy who like doesn't really talk. And he eventually gets Scott during like, you know. It's hard to keep track of all of them. There are, there are probably like 10 to 15 people.

So. But as far as people who are speaking in the movie. Our like core group. Yeah. Yeah. speaking in the movie our like core group yeah yeah so we have walter ends up in the room with kelly and um lisa and susan he first tries to leave and the the homeless people have now like barricaded them in like there's a there's a moment in which they realize that some shit is going down and they're trying to leave and they've now the doors are blocked they can't leave so yeah

he runs into that room where they've they've brought the cylinder into now to be near kelly he cannot get out and so he ends up going into a closet and locking the door uh and but he can still see what's happening and on the other side in another room kind of adjacent um brian and katherine uh i guess this room is sort of where all their equipment is set up. Brian and Catherine are there and they can kind of talk to him. So, they're going to try to break the wall so that Walter can get out. And it's during all of this that Walter is telling them what is happening. And what is happening is that the liquid has gone into Kelly.

And it looks like she's – All of it? All of it. And it looks like she's. All of it? All of it. And it looks like she's pregnant now. And so. Ew, with liquid? The way that it goes in, though, is through her mouth and eyes. It's from above, like jets down into her facial orifices.

It's a really upsetting way to get in there. So now she's like the Virgin Mary. She's like the Virgin Mary. She's like the Virgin Mary. Yeah. And Susan and Lisa are keeping watch over her. Keeping watch over this process. The others

are trying to get Walter out. Walter is updating them on what happened. We cut back after a bit. Susan, not Susan, kelly is no longer pregnant but she's developing sores all over her body oh that's when sores are one of the worst things it's pretty gross it's really we talk a lot about you know people getting slashed people are getting impaled but to to have a bunch of sores is really upsetting.

It almost looks like burns, like chemical burns. I just rewatched Chernobyl. Sorry. Oh, no. A rewatch? A rewatch of Chernobyl? It's such a good show, Henley. No, it is.

No, you're right. When you're Jared Harris. I love Jared Harris. But her skin, yeah, looks like chemical. It's like white and red. She's almost looking like she's inside out. Yes. She eventually wakens, wakes up.

At this point, Walter is like screaming, desperate to get away. She wakes up. They get through to Walter. Susan and Lisa begin to get to Walter. And so there's a scramble for him to get out. At this point, someone else gets infected and it's one of the guys who like, you know,

just a guy. He's a guy. And they fight off Lisa who they end up throwing through the window. Yep. And she dies.

Yeah, it's just like full out fighting hand-to-hand combat with little spawns of Satan. Does the Satan in them make them stronger than they should be? Or are they just sort of taken over and still you know i don't think there's necessarily stronger okay because they seem to be able to beat them down if we try hard right i think it's sort of like they're they're possessed and so there's you know they can they're probably stronger than they would be in everyday life because there's no sort of like mental inhibition. Fear. Yes. Right. They're just going for it. Yeah.

Yeah. So we cut to Kelly, who is she's awake. She is completely covered and she's like, look at her task, like completely covered in sores. She looks down at a mirror and you might be thinking, oh, she sees who she is and she's horrified. No, it's not what's happening. She picks up the mirror. She looks at it. She kind of hisses, Father! And starts to put her hand into the, it's like a makeup mirror. She has to put her hand into it. The mirror starts to glow and her hand, but doesn't quite fit.

And she gets furious and throws it down and begins searching for something. The priest this entire time has been in another room, Lomax who is um uh he's the only black character and he's the the he's a tall tall black guy and he's he's infected um he cuts his throat after he's infected this is earlier in the film that one that one really because it's not with a knife it's with a broken chair leg.

And it's small. And he like stabs himself in the neck with a blunt piece of wood. He's like singing a gospel hymn and then like does it. Holy shit. That is brutal. And then he passes out. Then he gets back up still infected, still under the control of Satan. And he's sort of like kind of in this room, guess looking for the priest and the priest is hiding from him

but in this room is a giant mirror uh so there's a giant mirror lomax is there kelly makes her way into here brian is fighting off one of the other yeah it's just everyone's caught in their own little fights brian's fighting off someone walter priest is praying to god priest is praying to god and as kelly goes to the mirror it starts to it starts to glow and she starts to put her hand through it. I should say that at this point, two other characters have had the dream and the dream is getting progressively more clear what the message is. And the full message from the dream is that what they are hearing, what they are seeing is a tachyon transmission from the year 199. You're receiving this broadcast in order to alter the events you are seeing.

Our technology has not developed a transmitter strong enough to reach your conscious state of awareness, but this is not a dream. You're seeing what is actually occurring for the purpose of causality violation. dream. You're seeing what is actually occurring for the purpose of causality violation. And key in this sort of grainy footage is the figure emerging from the church is a cloaked figure. But anyway, we're back where Kelly's trying to get into this mirror. She's putting her hand in, when she puts her hand in sort of like an ocean of liquid on the other side, and you see another hand begin to reach for hers. And she's,

he's saying, huge hand. The other hand is really big. Okay. Okay. Uh, uh, and,

and, and she clutches it and begins to pull it out, pull this hand out. And it begins to, you begin to see it. And it is, it is like a demonic hand that's coming out of this mirror. Um, pretty, Pretty classic Satan hand.

Do you think they did the thing like that they do in the Lord of the Rings movies where like for that shot, it was like a child holding an adult's hand to make it look really big? I love that stuff. I get so excited when I watch Lord of the Rings and I'm like, that's a little kid. Like, you know! Makes me happy. Everyone's fighting. Catherine is running down the hallway. She sees Brian fighting. She runs past this room with Lomax and

with Kelly and with the mirror. The priest has an axe and he's trying to I think first he tries to knock out Lomax. He tries to do something and it doesn't work. But he has his axe and Kelly's pulling this demon out of his mirror. And Brian's fighting and everyone's struggling.

And Catherine, realizing that she's the only one with freedom of action, runs and pushes Kelly through the mirror. She falls through the mirror and then the priest throws the axe at the mirror, breaking it. And we get this shot of Kelly anguished, her hand reaching out for the mirror that she can't get back through. Catherine. Catherine is, yeah, like on the other side. On the other side. Oh, Catherine's on the other side. Catherine went through also.

Yeah, sorry. Catherine and Kelly are now on the other side. She pushed her and they both went through. Yes. A little self-sacrifice. And she can't get back through because they smashed her. They can't get back through. No.

And then what we see is that for all of the possessed, they kind of just like, they die. And like a puff of breath comes out of their mouth. And that is sort of like, I guess, the spirit of Satan, like leaving their bodies. They're no longer possessed the homeless people disperse their credit they're back to normal walter just runs out he does it i feel like doesn't really even talk to anyone he just beelines he's like i'm out of here fair respect yeah yeah the police show up the priest and the professor are like you know we've done it we've stopped this thing.

We're successful. Brian is distraught because Catherine is dead as far as he knows. And that, that seems like the end of the movie. We get into resolution at the church, but then we get kind of basically a post, a kind of post credit scene. The first thing is we get the dream again.

The transmission. And it's in full. It's the full message. But instead of a cloaked figure coming out of the church, it's someone who looks a lot like Catherine coming out of the church.

And the full year is 1999. So it's from the future, not the past. Oh. 1999. So it's from the future, not the past. Oh. 1999. You realize at this point that the Brotherhood of Sleep, for millennia, they've been getting

this transmission too. That's the dream they've been having, this transmission. Oh, and that's why it's the Brotherhood of Sleep, because they get it while they're asleep. But what you learn, right, is that they did change the future but not the event just who would be the vessel okay brian wakes up he looks to his side and he sees what appears to be catherine as sort of like the sore covered vessel of satan oh no. Then he wakes up again.

It's a double dream. Pretty good jump scare too. Yeah, it's a pretty good jump scare. He wakes up again and he looks at a mirror and then he reaches his hand out to the mirror and cut the black. Movie over. It's like an inception ending, like just before he touches the mirror. So we don't know if this portal is open.

Great ending. But there's another third movie. We need to do a mouth of, what is it? Mouth of Madness? In the Mouth of Madness. Yeah. We need to do it. We're going to do it.

We're going to do it. Well, they're not like direct sequels. They're just like thematic. Because the thing, this isn't a sequel to the thing. Right. They're just a thematic trilogy. The idea is like each sequel to the thing. Right. They're just a thematic trilogy. Yeah. The idea is like each one of these movies is how the end of the world begins.

I love that. The Apocalypse trilogy. Oh, that's fucking cool. Man. John Carpenter is so cool. He rules. He rules. He really rules.

Like it's really man i wanted to make another movie but he seems very happy right now like playing xbox and making music like good for him honestly he doesn't he doesn't owe it to us of course not but i love this concept of everyone dreaming the same dream. That is so eerie and spooky. And I would like to see that more in other horror movies. Well, it's just dream scenario. But it wasn't a horror movie. But the Nicolas Cage movie where everyone has dreams of Nicolas Cage.

But yeah, it is a very scary concept. And I'm surprised it hasn't been done more. Maybe it will be now. We talk about our dreams all the time. I was going to say. And imagine if they started to be the exact same. Imagine if we were every night. We should keep talking about our dreams. Just time i was gonna say if they started to be the exact same imagine we should keep talking about our dreams just in case just in case just how do you know if you don't share it especially since it's sort of like it because the movie

doesn't totally spell out for you like the implications of the dream is sort of it's it kind of lets you figure out what is actually happening it is like really weird and eerie to think that's sort of like yeah for for for mom for much of human history people when having this dream that just did not make any sense to them uh yeah and for the first group of people for whom it possibly could make sense too late can't do anything about it you know i i don't think i've ever had a dream that in the dream i've had dreams where i've realized it was a dream. But OK, if any of it, I'm just going to say this now. If any of us ever have a dream where in the dream we are told this isn't a dream, this is for real.

Just tell somebody. Just let somebody know. And anybody. Just in case. Just tell somebody. I know you're not going to believe that this is real, but trust me. It's real. When you wake up, tell someone.

Tell someone. And just if that happens, what do you have to lose by telling someone? You know, that's all I'm saying is just. Have you guys had dreams where you woke up in the dream? Yes. Oh, yeah. That is the worst. That is the worst.

I hate that. That is the worst feeling. My least favorite is when I wake up and I'm still dreaming, but I'm in my bed, like in the normal place. And I'm like trying to move my body, but I'm still asleep. Sleep paralysis. Yeah, it's like a sleep paralysis, but it's not necessarily scary. It's just like very frustrating. I'm like, but I'm awake and I'm trying to get up and then I'm not awake.

I don't really remember any of my dreams. You know, I often don't remember mine either. I'm sad about that. I really want to cultivate that more in my life. I want to be able to remember my dreams. I don't know how you cultivate it. I mean, I guess maybe you can, but... I mean, how frustrating too, if you're like, what, God, God essentially who do we think is transmitting these dreams and your person wakes up and they're like I guess I didn't really dream last night it's like no why won't God speak to me

God's like I keep sending you messages what am I supposed to do stop leaving me unread I wanted to say real quick with the dream sequences in this movie so they're in this dream sequences in this movie. So they're in this, they're in this like fuzzy kind of like CBTV kind of thing.

And the way they did it is they just filmed it regularly, then like played it on a VHS and then film that on like a, on like a, so, and what's cool is that like, you can very clearly see that as sort of like the origin of like found footage. It's a found footage effect. Yes.

And I feel like that is like the beginning point of like the found footage technique in a film. Because I can't recall seeing it in anything prior to Print of Darkness. And I always find found footage films very scary. There is something scary about that. Yeah, we could give that to Carpenter. Damn. We owe him a lot. We owe him a lot.

I was wondering, there is a moment in the film where one of them says, like, we just need to cover this building with concrete and never come in here again. And I kind of think that might have worked. Yeah, probably. Because we find out that it needed a vessel of some sort. And so they're all like, no, that'll never work. Like, we need to make sure this doesn't happen. And it's just by them being there as human bodies that they ensure that it does happen. So, should have listened to that guy.

Yeah. Damn. Too bad. Too bad. Man, that was good. Jamel, will you let our listeners know where they can find you and what you've got going on? Sure. So my day job is a columnist in the New York Times. So you can find me if you subscribe at the Times, usually every Tuesday

and Friday I have a column and I have a Saturday newsletter. If you don't read the Times for whatever reason, it doesn't bother me, but I i get it i get it um then you can find me i have a podcast with my friend john gans who's an author um it's called unclear in present danger where we watch the political and military thrillers of the cold of the post-cold war period of the 90s basically and we talk about them and kind of situate them historically and we have a patreon where we do that for the movies of the cold war and i think the last thing we did for the patreon was the odessa file um uh which is a um what's his name angelina jolie's dad john voight movie about sort of like secret

nazis in 60s Germany. And then for the main feed, the last movie we did was The Substitute, which is with Tom Barringer. And if you've never seen The Substitute, the best way I can describe it is like, lean on me, except the teacher beats the shit out of the kids. Jesus Christ. Okay. Compelling stuff. on me except the teacher beats the shit out of the kids. Jesus Christ. Okay.

Compelling stuff. Compelling stuff. I can see how that got made. I mean, that's a rock solid pitch. So yeah, that's where you can find me. Those two places. And I'm on like, you know, I'm on TikTok. I watch a lot of Jamel's TikTok videos. I'm not going to lie. Henley does love TikTok. Henley does love TikTok. I watch a lot of Jamel's TikTok videos. I'm not going to lie.

Henley does love TikTok. Henley does love TikTok. And they're informative. They're actually informative and useful TikTok videos. So unlike 90% of my TikTok feed. So got to get the information somewhere. Thank you. Well, thank you for watching my TikToks.

They're mostly informative. Some of them are me watching people like butcher chickens and I'm just like, you know, grading it. Yes. That's kind of a bit. That does sound fun.

Yeah. So that's where you can find me. Great. And thank you for having me. Thank you so much for being here. I will also say that I follow Jamel on Letterboxd. so he didn't throw that out there, but. Yeah, I am on Letterboxd. Sometimes I write like real reviews of stuff. Sometimes I write things like, I think I saw Porco Rosso, the Miyazaki film. And I think my review was, I love the pig man.

Yep. Great. So. That's all we need. That's what Letterboxd is for, to be honest. Those are most of my reviews. I reviewed Princess Mononoke. Oh, okay.

And my review of that was just that the little deer friend is my best friend. I was like, he's my best friend. I love him. Oh, I love the deer. Whenever the deer got hurt, I got so worried. Yes. I'm like, he's my best friend. Please.

I love him. Don't hurt him. Don't hurt him. I love him. Wow. What a real treat. This was I love him. Don't hurt him. Don't hurt him. I love him. Wow. What a real treat. This was a great time. This was very fun. We don't always get a great time. No, we do not.

No, we do not. It's really nice when we do. I'm surprised you guys don't feel emptiness and dread after this. I think just because Carpenter rules. I can just picture what this... I really don't. I think just because like Carpenter rules. Like I can just like picture what this, like it's just,

I'm like kind of amped. Yeah. Same. So. It's like a great. Yeah. Yeah. I'll say,

unlike the, I'm sort of like, scary as John Carpenter's, I think in the mouth of madness is probably scarier. Yeah. Okay. I find the thing, utterly terrifying.

Like, I love that movie. But I remember the first time I saw it and I was like, this is some of the most grotesque things I've ever witnessed in my life. Yeah. Yeah, and it's like the fact that it's dogs

is like, we don't want that. We don't want that. Right, right. Don't ruin dogs. Don't make it dogs. He has an amazing hat in that, right? Isn't that the hat don't want that. Right. Right. Don't ruin dogs. Don't make it dogs. He has an amazing hat in that, right? Isn't that the hat? Really big hat. Yeah.

The hat is huge. A good big hat can save any movie. The director's commentary that Kurt Russell does with John Carpenter, he says, Joel and I say it to each other all the time, kind of a scene about a hat. Just really just love the hat. Okay,. Just love the new hat.

Okay, Jermel. Thank you so much for joining us. This was very fun. We end every episode with a voice from the movie. I will close us out with the warbly Frank Bugman voice. Ooh. Bugman. Which is impossible to do.

It's like a robotic voice, but I'm going to do my version of it. Okay. So from all of us here at Too Scary Didn't Watch, pray for death. Thank you, my friends, for listening to another episode of Too Scary Didn't Watch. If you had fun hanging with us, don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. We're also on Twitter and Instagram at TSDW Podcast. And if you're interested in things like bonus episodes, video trailer reactions, and other cool content, head on over to patreon.com slash TSTW podcast. All right. We love you all forever and ever, starting a while ago and continuing into eternity. Adios. That was a HeadGum podcast.