Too Scary; Didn't Watch - SAW 2 with Joel Jensen

Episode Date: September 20, 2023

Mind games, the fight for survival, and the WORST BED EVER, we're recapping SAW 2!! Horrorpondent and Saw expert Joel Jensen joins us again to let us know what the heck Jigsaw is up to this time! Trailer Recap begins @ 22:33 Follow the show: @TSDWpodcast on Twitter, TikTok, and Instagram. Check out our Patreon for bonus episodes and additional content! Rate Too Scary; Didn’t Watch 5 Stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and leave a review for Emily, Henley, and Sammy. Advertise on Too Scary; Didn't Watch via Gumball.fmSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. This is Emily, Henley, and Sammy, and you're listening to Too Scary, Didn't Watch. Hi everyone, welcome to Too Scary, Didn't Watch, the horror movie recap podcast for those too scared to watch for themselves. I'm Emily, and I am too scared to watch scary movies. And it's a bit of an interesting episode. It's a bit of a special one. I am alone. I'm not, but I don't have Henley or Sammy here this week. You know, to be completely honest, I don't know when this episode is going to air, but this is an episode that will air when they're unavailable, which happens sometimes.

And we came up with a little plan, a little fun plan in light of not having perfect Henley and perfect Sammy here with us this week, we had to do something truly special, truly spectacular to make up for it and to still just give you the kind of content you love, you come here for. So I'm not actually alone. I'm joined by the only person who could fill those shoes, both pairs of shoes, our very first and our very best correspondent. Hello, Joel. Hello. Hello, everyone. And Emily, I got to say, I don't really appreciate you blowing up my spot

as a four-legged man saying that I could fill both pairs of shoes at once. This isn't really how I wanted to go public with that information. I'm so sorry. But it's out. Yeah. What are the half-horse, half-mans called? Centaurs. Centaurs.

I'm a centaur, but with human... Whole body human. Human feet. Whole body human. How would that... Mentor. How would that work? Would that be...

Because a centaur is a human torso and also a horse torso horse torso it's two torsos really double tors yeah and so where would the second human torso come out at the neck or at the waist do you know what i mean well the larger torso is a horse-shaped human torso with just with human legs. Awful. Tail? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Bald.

Oh, God. Like a like a Sphinx cat tail? Yep. Well, I hate that. So now my secret's out. Well, I guess I love it. I guess I love it. Hi, Joel. Joel. out i guess i love it i guess i love it um hi joel joel you are this week's scary movie watcher

for me yes which i'm thrilled about i mean i'm not thrilled about what we will be talking about but i'm thrilled thrilled to have you here thrilled that i made you do this with me we're gonna have a good old time we opened a bottle of of wine. We're going to have some fun. We are sitting in our home on a Friday night. We opened a bottle of wine. And we're going to do this week's movie. But before we get into that, Joel, did anything scary happen to you this week? This is not necessarily this week, although there was an instance of it that's been happening this week, which is that I feel as though the like programming of my hair has been completely wiped clean.

You realize that last time you came on this podcast, you talked about hair growth. Yes. Unwanted hair growth. And this is unwanted hair programming. Yeah. It's like, so my hair used to have a way that I did it. Sure. And I did it like that every day.

Yeah. And it just feels like all of a sudden I can't do it anymore. I can't achieve it. You say that, but I don't see what you're seeing. Well. Which is not to gaslight you into saying that it's not happening. I just, I'm not seeing that the whatever struggle you're facing is you're doing a very good job of concealing it you know from appearance wise

thank you you should tell that to my therapist but why does she tell you you're not like just generally concealing my struggle but i don't know what's going on with my hair i really don't i i started i think i i am starting to suspect so this is part of this is mainly what's scary not necessarily just the hair but that um i think it all started when i started like more of a project with my hair where i was trying to like grow it a little bit longer and i so as a part of that i started going to the same barber every time i went and got my hair cut to like you know which is like not necessarily common for men is that true not necessarily yeah not necessarily okay um plenty of people do plenty of people don't um you go to the same barber shop often but there's like you know a few different people you

might get okay but i picked the same one so i could have a plan, kind of. Sure. And I'm starting to wonder, I really like this guy. He's really good. But I wonder if he's not right for my hair. Oh, sure. He maybe doesn't understand your hair texture. Yes. And the curl and whatever. It's not a good fit between the two of you hair-wise.

Yeah. And so what is difficult is that I've been going... Hope he's not listening. I know. I don't think he is. Rude. But, and if he is, I got to say you're really nice and I really like you, but I just don't know if it's working. And so, but the problem that I face is I don't really want to get...

Go to a different barbershop? Well, I don't really want to go... Go to a different barbershop? Well, I don't really want to go to a different person at the same barbershop. And I also don't really know what barbershop alternatives there are for me in this neighborhood. Might I suggest... Well, you don't need me to solve your problem. But if I might offer some advice, it would be that I wonder if you would like going to, which you have done this in the past, back when you were coloring your hair, I wonder if you would like going to a hair salon.

Perhaps, yeah. A more feminine energy, more conversations around what your hair is doing and what you want out of it, and also just a general feminine environment and energy that I know you enjoy being surrounded by I think you would really really love it I've definitely been thinking about it it's just those places are so fucking expensive they're so much more expensive that's true it really is true like you're paying for vibe oh my god you're paying so much for it so I don't know what I'm gonna, but I just don't like the way that my hair is sitting atop my head any longer. It's as if it was like the memory was wiped out and it just doesn't sit on my head like it used to. Part of me thinks it's because I'm

going bald. You're not. I don't think I am. You're not. But it's like, it's kind of like, well, if the climate's changing, maybe it's because of global warming. Do you know what I mean? Right. I do know. I do know. For a second, I thought you were attributing the increase in temperatures. To change my hair?

Which it could be. Could be. It could be an El Nino thing. You have El Nino hair. So I guess I gotta wait until winter Before I really make it But have you ever heard that they say Your hair changes every seven years

Changes what? It's like It goes through like a chemical Like your body is just like Changing you know how our hair grows Out of our heads and stuff and skin It's all chemistry Well this sucks.

I had a good system for seven years. I don't know that it's like drastic changes. And again, I don't even know what I'm talking about. But this is a thing I've heard. I went so far as to start parting my hair on the other side of my head to try to solve this. Yeah, you did. You did. At my most manic point of the past year at your most manic point you changed the part of your hair

um i'm covering my struggle you know yeah no i yeah it's hard hair stuff here i'll go i'll talk about hair stuff too is that your scary thing we should segue into it wasn't going to be but i'm using it as the segue yeah i'm doing it now i'm doing it currently and that is my scary thing? It wasn't going to be, but I'm using it as the segue. Yeah, I'm doing it now. I'm doing it currently. And that is my scary thing is that I have to stop bleaching my hair. And you know this. And I'm really sad about it because I love being platinum blonde. I feel my most me.

It feels powerful. I love it. But my hair is falling out. I feel my most me. It feels powerful. Um, I love it, but my hair's flying out. And, and I knew, I knew there was, there are just clumps of your hair around the house. No.

In the shower there are. In the shower there are. Yeah, that's true. Um, yeah, no. So,

so it's been a thing that i've known it there's a there is a term limit on how long you can bleach your hair um and i've known that to be true but i've fought it because i don't let anybody tell me what to do so for you not even me everybody knows this the climate change is man-made for you. Exactly. Exactly. But, you know, I had a warning sign a few months ago. I got my hair bleached. And the first post-bleach shower, I washed my hair and I thought, hmm, this is, you know, this is too much. I feel like coming out. But I didn't want it to be true.

And I have a lot of hair. So I've also just been like, well, okay, so fine. So you lose some. Like, who cares? You know, cost-benefit analysis. That's a really smart cost-benefit analysis. And, but then, so then this last time I got my hair bleached, it happened again. And it was like, I felt like it was like, okay, you get like, like it felt like the scorpion on the frog.

Okay, go into that. It felt like it was like, okay, you get like, like it felt like the scorpion on the frog. Okay. Go into that. Where it's like, I know that, I know that bleaching my hair is a scorpion. Okay. And. Who's the frog? My hair. My hair is the frog.

And the bleach is a scorpion. Okay. And so the first warning sign was me meeting the scorpion. But choosing to take it across the river anyway. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. But then it stung me.

And it's like, well, I knew you were a scorpion. Do you know what I mean? Yes. And then you took it back to the other side of the river. I took it back. So, yeah, the second time I had lost a lot of hair again. This time, the first time it happened, I didn't show you how much hair I lost.

But this time, after the shower, I did show you. It shocked me. It looked like, you know, like in a body horror movie when somebody's like liquefying and they was like. No, no. It wasn't like I still have hair on my head, but but it's not what you want.

And it and it felt it feels to me like if I do it, if I ignore this warning and I bleach my hair again, I will all my hair will fall off. It just sort of like I've started having stress dreams about my hair falling out. It's like, it's time. And I am really sad about it, but I can't, I can't keep doing it. Well, there's a whole new world in front of you now. There's a whole new world in front of me now. And you can always come back. It's true. It's true.

Scorpion will always be on that riverside. It's just waiting. There's no other way for me to get across. So, yeah, if anybody has been there, if anybody is there and is thinking, well, no, that's not a scorpion. I don't know. I feel like it is. And it's sad.

Yeah, it really is. It's sad, but true. It's been a really important part of your personality for the past few years. It's been a really important part of my personality. I really enjoy it. But I like change, and it's an exciting opportunity to try something new. The unfortunate thing is it will take a while,

which I hate that. But that's my next chapter. It's my next chapter, and we're going to see where it goes. But hair is hard. Hair is hard. hair is hard hair is hard hair is hard and we you know we've talked a decent decent bit about body horror just now and unfortunately that feels like a good segue into what it is we're gonna be talking about today and that is saw 2.

And that is Saw 2 Woo Woo Yeah So Joel famously Famously We're watching a show right now where someone talks about everything she ever has made Well this is my famous So and so and I think it's so funny to self describe

Your things as famous Whether it's true or not it just feels very silly to me I like her but anyway Famously Joel covered Saw 1 Was that your first episode? No Which was your first episode?

That was your second episode I don't know I don't know Whatever It was a while ago And it was great And it was great And everybody loved it

Wow that's really nice to hear And We have not I mean obviously Because this is. And we have not. I mean, obviously, because this is Saw 2. We've not done a Saw movie since. And it feels like we got them. We're not going to do all of them. There are nine.

There's a 10th coming out this month. Well, I don't know when this episode is coming out. There's a 10th coming out September 2023. So, you know, Saw's back. Saw's back. Saw's back Great poster too For Saw 10? Yeah I haven't seen it It's like a person's face and they're like looking up

And they have two Fluorescent light bulbs stuck into their eye sockets Henley's gonna hate that And they like cross each other so it makes an X for 10 It's really good Oh Henley's gonna hate that. And they like cross each other so it makes an X for 10. It's really good. Oh, Henley's gonna hate that. Yeah, it's super fluorescent.

Super. And eyeballs. Yeah. Out. Out. Yeah. Joel, what... Have you seen... Had you seen...

You had seen Satu before. Yeah, but long ago. I hadn't seen it for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. It came out... Well, I'll tell you. I'll tell you a little bit about it. It came out October 28th, 2005, which is a year after Saw I came out. So they really were like getting on it.

It was directed by Darren Lynn Boosman, written by Lee Winnell and Darren Lynn Boosman, written by Lee Winnell and Darren Lynn Boosman, starring Donnie Wahlberg, Frankie G, Glenn Plummer, Beverly Mitchell, Dina Meyer, Emmanuel Vagier, Eric Knudsen, Shawnee Smith, and Tobin Bell. Tobin Bell, that's Pig Face, Wig Face? Tobin Bell plays Jigsaw. Who's Pig Faceface Wigface?

Well, it depends. I don't think it because remember in the first one, he's not Pigface Wigface. Ben from Lost is Pigface Wigface. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Damn. His little apprentice. Oh, his little apprentice. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's Pigface Wigface. So there's no Pigface Wigface in this? No. Fuck this. And, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's pig face, wig face. So there's no pig face, wig face in this? No. Fuck this. And this movie was a huge success. I mean, obviously, they've continued making them. The budget was $4 million. Pretty low.

Yeah. Box office, $147.7 million. Yes, this is actually the highest grossing of all of the Saw movies. Very interesting. That must mean that it's not great. Uh, no, I think it means that the rest of them aren't great. This one is really good.

Okay, well, Joel, Rotten Tomatoes disagrees. It has a 37% Are you kidding me? 37% of Rotten Tomatoes, a 40 on Metacritic, and a 6.6 on IMDb. IMDb coming through in the clutch here, but these guys are cuckoo. It's a really

good sequel. Okay. Well, I'll be the judge of that. I'm interested. I, well, I mean, I think, I think I'll hate it, but Saw is just such a big fucking deal. Is this when it becomes more like torture porn or is it still

not as much um it's getting closer but i still would argue with that we are not yet into torture porn territory i i could see somebody thinking that we are but I don't think we are. Okay. Did you see this movie in theaters? I don't think so. I think I saw it at my house or my friend Joel's house. And a lot of images from it have stuck with me to this day. Oof. 2005. Where were you in 2005?

I was in college. Okay. Okay. Go Hawkeyes. I feel like you're supposed to, you have to say that, right? You have to. You absolutely have to. If any of the fans spend any time in Iowa City, holler at me in the comments. I used to work at Donnelly's Pub.

And if you ever went there or you ever went to the mill, respect. Great. Great. You got some trivia for me, Joel? I do. I only have a few. One of them, though, that I find kind of the most interesting is, so Saw 1 came out in 2004. This came came out in 2005 and there's a reason that happened that quickly which is that the director and co-writer darren boosman had already written a script for a different movie called the desperate and it was he like was pitching it around and it was seen as too violent and too, you know, gnarly. And then Saw came out and became huge. And then people were like, it's too Saw-like.

But then Lee Winnell contacted him and was like, do you want to just make that Saw 2? Holy shit. Yeah. And so they had a script ready. They just like they like tweaked it to fit it into the franchise. But it was they basically just like took an existing other idea and made it into Saw 2. That's very interesting. Cool move on

Lee Winnell's part. Yes. Another fun bit of trivia. Speaking of posters as we talked about the Saw 10 poster the poster for this movie was recalled by the MPAA for being too grisly because it had two severed fingers. And the MPAA didn't like that. Doesn't the Saw 1 poster have a severed foot?

Yes, but that also might be like a re-release kind of poster. I don't know, man. I remember walking through Blockbusters and getting to the aisle with Saw and horror movies and I remember those being there. I remember seeing the gray crackled

nasty body parts. Yeah, they got really good posters for these things. The fingers the fingernails on those fingers in this poster. Maybe it's because there's like a pool of blood Underneath them or something It's nasty Here's a bit of trivia that you're going to like

I don't know if I buy it You will, trust me So in the first movie because they had a very small budget The little jigsaw puppet That little guy He was controlled like marionetted With fishing line This movie they had a bigger budget

so they made him motorized so he's remote controlled oh making that money count and i will say this i don't know if i noticed this in the first movie or if it's something new with this puppet but when you if you look at a picture of him from this movie in particular, his chin is carved in such a way. It's like a butt chin, you know, with like a big, big, big chin. But his chin is so funny looking that it made me realize that testicles and butts look really similar. His chin made me think of that. His chin made you think that testicles and butts look really similar that's right and this is the trivia i'm gonna like no no the remote control one was the one you were

gonna like i mean testicles and butts look really similar from a certain angle yes and certain kinds of butts and certain kinds of representations of them both certain kinds of representations carved testicles and carved butts carving testicles and carving butts look similar to me i could see how you could carve one trying to make the other sure that's pretty much it for the like a lot of this uh trivia on imdb is has spoilers about one scene in particular. Okay. Which is one of the scenes that I've never forgotten about. And anybody who's listening, who's watched this, I bet you know what scene I'm talking

about. When anybody is listening who hasn't, you're gonna. You're gonna. But yeah, they shot this whole thing in 25 days. That's the last of the trivia. Holy shit. Yeah. Nice and snappy. Nice and snappy and it made them a hundred million dollars that is pretty cool yeah yeah pretty cool for them and i do really think it's a good sequel

i think it's okay i think it it lives in the space of the first one it it pays uh it's like connected to the first one in interesting ways. It expands on what's fun about the first one, but makes it its own. And I think it's a, the cast is nowhere near as good, which is too bad. That is, you'd think that they'd be able to pull some fucking hot shots in after Saw 1.

Yeah. You miss out on some of, of that like psychological drama of the first one which is really good but i didn't miss it when i was watching it this one if that makes sense in the past few years i have hit a point where i only want to be wearing clothes that are comfortable it happened it happened to me but you know what i still also want to look cute and these are two desires that are often extremely opposing? I still also want to look cute. And these are two desires that are often extremely opposing. And I don't want to have to sacrifice. I want both. I

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You can wear it out in the world, or you can wear it with this little boxer short. That is so comfortable. It is super, super soft, lightweight rib. They're great. I also truly have been for years stealing Joel's boxer briefs to wear as sleepwear and loungewear. And guess what? That ain't cutting it. I'm not feeling too cute in those. I'm not feeling too comfortable. But Desperate Times, however, Desperate Times know more because Skims has done it. You too can get on board with this. You can see just how cute and comfortable you can be. Shop the Skims Soft Lounge Collection at skims.com.

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to work at Staples when I grew up because I just loved getting all the things that I needed that I would use every day in class. I still to this day have nightmares about showing up in class without notebooks or number two pencils, Really scary stuff. But luckily I wake up and I realize I don't actually need notebooks or number two pencils anymore. But this fall there is something that I will be using every day and would be terrified to be caught without. And that's Raycon's best-selling everyday earbuds. I've been trying to go on walks every day, and so I need earbuds that I can rely on to listen to

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everything on Raycon's website when you go to buyraycon.com slash too scary buyraycon.com slash too scary. Buyraycon.com slash too scary. Well, then let's do it, Joel. Okay. Saw two. So we open on a green-hued, nasty light bulb flickering in the dark as it swings and creaks. And a man breathes frantically. So we're off to the races right at the beginning.

We're in a room. No windows, cement walls. In the room, there's an air grate, a tv uh and a box um and a mirror and we see this mirror and it's pulled by a young man and he looks at his reflection his face in the mirror and one of his eyes is bloody and swollen and super fucked up and around his neck is some kind of contraption that looks like very bad news and we cut to an overhead shot and this thing is that's around his neck

is like a large if you could imagine a what are those plants that a Venus flytrap I just saw one today really yeah you don't see a lot of those you really don't What are those plants that eat? A Venus flytrap. I just saw one today. Really? Yeah. You don't see a lot of those.

You really don't. Anyway. Was it in the wild? It was not in the wild. No. I don't know if they're native to this area. Probably not. They were inside a restaurant and we asked, do those work?

And the waitress said no. Do you remember the first time you learned about those? No. I remember learning about a plant that ate bugs and being like, what? It's crazy. That goes against everything I knew at the time. Absolutely. You know, they're really underrated. You don't think about flesh eating plants very frequently.

Anyway. Okay, so that's what it looks like. really underrated you don't think about flesh eating plants very frequently anyway that has nothing to do with it but it's basically like do you know what an iron maiden is it's like a bear trappy kind of thing round with spikes imagine a body shaped metal coffin filled with

nails and spikes so it's like a mask filled with nails that will. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like a mask filled with nails. That's going to, that will like snapshot on his head. Okay. That's what's around his neck waiting to snapshot. I've just remembered what it is. I'm about to experience.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, you are. Yeah. So, uh,

he stands up, he's like able to get up. He's not tied down or anything. And he notices that there's a string connected to the device that is connected to a pulley on the wall. Then on the TV starts playing and we get our jigsaw puppet. And on top of the TV, we see x-rays and it's of a skull. And somewhere inside this skull is a key. The TV comes on. The puppet says,

Hello, Michael. I want to play a game. And we basically learn Michael is a snitch. He like rats people out. Oh, El Rata El Rata. That's right. And Jigsaw goes on to say, like, basically, he's a snitch. And like, I call you unworthy of the body you possess, of the life that you've been given. Now we'll see if you're willing to look inward rather than outward to give up the one thing you rely on to go on living.

And he says, you're wearing a death mask on a spring loaded timer. And, uh, I can't, I won't do the voice unless I like have it written down, but he's basically like, once that timer starts, you have a minute to get the key to find the key and unlock the trap on your

face. And he goes, you know, you're, you're a bit, uh uh at a disadvantage right now because you just woke up so i'll give you a hint and on screen this video starts playing of jigsaw and this guy his name is michael laying on a surgery table unconscious and jigsaw cuts his eye open and puts a key behind his eye and puts his eye back. Oh,

and, um, and then he goes, the answer is right before your eyes. And he laughs. Yeah. So Michael is really upset. He starts yelling and freaking out. And the way that this movie is shot,

it's not directed by James Wan. It's directed by this dude, darren bozeman and it is shot so frenetically it is unfortunately directed for the most part i will say it ends up kind of working but it's like really like tons of speed ramps tons of weird edits that are meant to disorient you but oftentimes you're just disoriented right and it's like strobing like epileptic kinds of cuts yeah anyway and it made me go like how could a movie filmed in 2005 be even more 2003 than a movie filmed in 2003 and it is uh like they were definitely blasting trapped in the editing bay so anyway mich Michael's freaking out and he like starts running around the room a little bit and

he pulls the string off of the pulley and the timer has now started. Oh Jesus Christ. He's got 60 seconds. He looks around. There's a there's a toolbox inside the toolbox is a scalpel. He takes the scalpel to his eye. Fuck. Starts to cut at it. Ah. Can't

bring himself to do it. He chickens out. Can't do it. And throws the scalpel away to give up. And time runs out. And chink! The trap shuts. And

he dies. And we get our Saw II titles as he falls over. I mean, I think yeah, I think that's what would have to happen. Yeah, I don't think I could pull it off. No, and in 60 seconds too, like I think you should have given him more time.

Yeah, but I think I would just go like, okay, well, bye. Yeah, and it didn't look all that painful. I was going to say, this also feels like a pretty instant death It is an instant But it would be less duration of pain Than cutting a key from behind your eyeball

But it's You might pass out before you even got the key Yeah but then you wouldn't have No you would yeah you'd still It'd be over for you But this is ultimately what gets to Jigsaw's point Is we don't know how to survive anymore Sure we used to know how to survive anymore.

Sure. We used to know how to do that. Yeah. We used to be good. I mean, anyway. So we're in it. Saw 2. Okay. Now we meet our main character, Detective Eric Matthews, played by Donnie Wahlberg.

Eric Matthews is the name of Corey Matthews' brother in Boy Meets World. Yes, it's very interesting. I had the same thought. Yeah. So Detective Eric Matthews is walking. He's like disheveled. He looks like surly and hungover. And he's walking down the hallway of a electronics store and walks up to a security desk in the back and says, I'm here to pick up my son.

And the security guard lets him in. And he goes into this holding room where his son, Daniel, is sitting. He got caught shoplifting. A delinquent. Yes. And Detective Matthews has a badge on his belt. He's obviously a cop. And he picks up his son and his piss at him for shoplifting. Sure.

And they, they leave and his son's like, those guys are assholes. And he's like, of course they're assholes. You, you stole from them. And then,

and they, they have like a lot of tension between the two of them. And Eric is like, you know, first your mom gets custody of you And now I gotta put you in custody Okay Uh and Alright man

And Daniel basically Tells him you know like fuck you man like You're never around Don't pun with me dude don't word play And he's like you know what you're Why are you always such a cop 24 7 I just wanna go Stay with mom and he's like you know what you're you're why are you always such a cop 24 7 i just want to go stay with mom and he goes well then fucking go go to her go to your mom see ya like he yells at him like go away well they're like standing on this pier not great parent having this argument

there's like a dude fishing or like woman jogging by him and he's like just yelling at his son uh how old to sound like 14 he's probably more like 16 okay he's a young young man imagine he's timothy chalamet basically he looks a lot like timothy chalamet does he now yes just imagine chalamet in this movie for the rest that will make it better for me so we cut to later eric is sitting in his like dingy apartment. A train goes by. He's like, where is this set? Do we know? I don't recall.

It's wherever the first one is set. I don't recall that. I don't like East Coast city vibes. Yeah. Okay. And like an industrial city. Yeah. That kind of vibe. And so he's at home drinking, feeling bad.

He calls Daniel's number to say he's sorry. He's like, hey, I know. Like, I've been trying to get a hold of you. He like leaves a voicemail. I know I've been I've been trying to get a hold of you. I haven't talked to you since yesterday. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that.

Like, I got out of hand And I'm sorry You're a child And then he hangs up Feels sorry for himself And then he gets a call and he picks it up and he goes Daniel? And then he goes oh no sorry sergeant It's his boss

And he has a really funny line in this scene When he picks it up and he thinks this is him And he goes oh sorry serge, I thought you were my son. It's like, does he not have color ID on his cell phone? No, not in 2005, I don't think. Well, he's married to Jenny McCarthy. Wow. Yeah, I didn't know that.

So the sergeant is like, we've got a murder that we need you to come down for. So he goes in. Then they do this weird edit where they do this throughout the movie where it's as if he walks out of the frame of his apartment into the frame of the murder scene. Oh, okay. Sure, sure, sure. Almost as if they're in the same space. Sure, sure, sure. But it's a little stylistic choice. And so he walks in and sees his colleague, uh, detective Carrie.

Carrie's like running the crime scene. She's like, Hey, it's your informant, uh, has been murdered. Yeah. Uh, and he's like, okay, like, okay, whatever. She's like, well, I don't know. It's him for sure. I need somebody to ID him. And he's like, well, they couldn't just like ID him.

Like, give me two seconds. I'll look at him, his face and I'll ID him. And she's like, well, they couldn't just like ID him. Like, give me two seconds. I'll look at him, his face and I'll ID him. And she's like, that's the problem. So I bring him in and he sees the scene. It's our, it's Michael,

our snitch. And he sees the trap is on his face, looks at a tattoo, confirms it's him. He's like, that's my CI. And, um,

he also notices that there's been a Covert Criminal informant Criminal informant Yes So he's like, yeah, that's Michael, that's my informant And then he notices that there's You can say C, I know what it means Okay

He notices that there's a jigsaw piece Jigsaw-shaped piece of skin that's been cut out of Michael's body. If you recall, that is Jigsaw's M.O. I'm sure that's how he gets his name. Indeed it is. And we actually talk about that later in this film. Oh, well, that is fun. Tattoos are a real handy means of identification.

One of the great reasons to have one in case your head gets crushed in case you die in a way so grisly that there is no other way to prove that it's you yeah have one have two have two because we don't know what this accident's gonna be one on each limb spread them out so he's like yeah it's my criminal informant i don't give a shit he's just, yeah, it's my criminal informant. I don't give a shit. He's just like, I just like used him. Fucking very rude. Yeah. And Carrie is like this.

Is Carrie her first name? I don't know. Because if so, that's also rude. I think her. Detective Carrie. No, I think it's her last name. It's got to be her last name, right? I think it's her last name.

So Detective Carrie is like, hey, I wanted you to. I also wanted you to see this because look at the fucking jigsaw. If this is a jigsaw crime. Uh huh. He's a serial killer. They're aware. And she's the expert in the police force on jigsaw. She's like, this is his M.O.

I think she might even be in the first movie, but I didn't recognize her. And he's like, I don't care. I don't care about jigsaw. I don't care about any of this fucking shit and she's like well why would your informant be targeted by jigsaw like is there anybody who might have wanted him dead that you know of and he's like i don't know he was an informant like look in the phone book everybody wants him dead and she needs to check his attitude he's a cynic and she's like well i want you on this case.

Why, Carrie? You can do this without him. Well, because she needs his understanding of this guy informant to try to figure out why he got targeted. Sucks. He says, like, I don't want any of this. And so he starts to leave. And Carrie goes, look closer, Detective Matthews. And he goes, what?

He turns around like, what did you fucking say? What do you mean look closer, Detective Matthews? And she points up and painted on the ceiling in red paint. It says, look closer, Detective Matthews. She's like, that's why I want you. That's you being called out by Jigsaw. Feels like she should have lied with that. And he goes, I don't care.

Dude, what? Yeah, and he leaves. So they're back at the police station. Okay, man. He's a bumming guy. We'll get there. No. So they go back to the police station he continues to not want the

case detective carrie is still trying to like convince him to do it and he's like look i have enough casework as it is i have all this bullshit with internal investigations i have the shit with my son and i'm going through a divorce with my wife. A little pointed. And she's like and he's like, we're not partners anymore. I don't want to work on this case. I'm not doing it. And she really tries to apply

him and they have an affair to him. She puts her hand on his arm and is like, please, I really want you on this. And she keeps her hand on his arm for a really long time and we can put two two and two together she broke up his marriage yes this is a very complicated work environment it really is and well you know i mean marriage is a break for many reasons um but you know okay yeah he's got a lot going on and and the way he the way you said he said that i am sort of like right it's a job being a detective

is all you also have like bullshit job he doesn't want anything to do you don't want more work it's just more work exactly we always think about detectives wantinging to find It's a puzzle But sometimes it's just fucking work you have to do I would also say If I don't get forced To work on a jigsaw case I'm not going to work on a jigsaw case No but I do think if he calls you out

By name You kind of got to do it I'm running away You got to leave town I'm clearing town. Yeah. But if but if you're staying in town, you would should work the case. Maybe.

I don't want to get mixed up in that shit. Well, I want to be a detective. OK. That settles that. If we're talking about what I want personally, it's none of this. What do you want so she gets mad at him she feels a little bit personally slighted by this too and she turns around and says him when did you stop being a cop and so we have kind of the essential dilemma this

man has here is his son is like, why are you always a cop? And his ex lover who broke up his marriage is like, why are you not a cop? Let's not put that on her. What? Let's not put that on her. She didn't break up. Okay, fine. But anyway, he's like, sure.

You know, are you a cop? Be less a cop. More copy. Less a cop. What are you? What are you? Who are you? Who are you? Who are you?

And why is your life in fucking shambles? Do you need to open a burger chain with your brother? Was that him? I think so. It might have been all of them. Are there more than one? I think there's so many. It's funny.

Donnie Wahlberg looks like if AI made Mark Wahlberg. He absolutely does. So later that night, Eric is in bed. Detective Matthews, Donnie Wahlberg. He's in bed. Can't sleep. Tossing and turning. Flashing around.

Thinking of stuff. Thinking about that fucking message that's painted on the wall. Look closer, Detective Matthews. Look closer, Detective Matthews. Look closer at what? Look closer at fucking what? And then he has a vision. Fucking what?

And then he has a vision. He recalls that on the death mask trap was a logo for a steel company. Wilson Steel is like on the metal. And so he's like, fucking Wilson Steel. That's what I need to be looking closer at. And so then we cut to the next day. The SWAT team is getting ready to go for the Wilson Steel building. They're going to raid it. And so then we cut to the next day. The SWAT team is getting ready to go for the Wilson Steel Building. They're going to raid it. This is where we think

Jigsaw's holed up. That was what he was supposed to understand. They're locking and loading. Why would that be? Would Jigsaw come get me? This is Jigsaw, baby. You think that's the extent of his plan? No, that's what I'm saying. These fucking idiots being like, oh, he wanted us to come find him at the steel company.

You just wait. Oh, no. So the SWAT locks and loads. There's like the leader of the SWAT team. I don't remember his name, but he's like a very aggro kind of like jackboot type guy. Yeah, leader of his fucking SWAT team. And he turns to Eric, who's with them and it's just like the good old days, right?

And Eric's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they're like hyped to go pull their guns out and like, you know, pew pew. And they break in to this building. They're like, you know, seeking around. It's like a dark building. they have it's like dark building

they have flashlights on the ends of their machine guns and stuff and looking looking looking they find a staircase and the staircase is sort of like uh ensconced by a metal cage kind of thing with a with a gate that opens so they you know run up start walking upstairs guess what those stairs are wired there's trip wires on them they don't notice them they keep walking up and then all of a sudden the lights all these lights turn on these spotlights and then we hear a the little little mechanized jigsaw puppet on his little tricycle wheels up. Oh, boy. And starts to do that little laugh.

And then this one's tough. Oh. So one of the SWAT guys, the guy who was in the lead, steps onto another step. No. That step, they're like wooden, like rotten wood stairs. No. That step, they're like wooden, like rotten wood stairs. No. That step falls away. So he like falls down so that like one step is behind his ankles and then other step is like against his shins.

Okay. And the one that's against his shins shoots out and breaks both of his shins completely in half backwards. Ugh. Ouch. Ouch. It would hurt so bad.

Yeah, that's a big bone. I am feeling that bone. That bone is thick as hell. Soccer players wear protection from feet kicking them on their shins. Like, imagine a whole wooden stair breaking it in half. That's a big bone. It's crazy

that our balls can just break. I don't like thinking about that. And I have broken bones before. You know this. That's right. I've never broken a bone. But always at a weak point like where two bones meet. A bone in and of itself.

Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, I had to do it. Where it's like you break the little parts that bring the bones together. Feels easier to do. Because there's already movement there you know but the idea of breaking

a whole big bone in the middle of there's nowhere to there's no a raw natural point of breakage yeah in the middle of a theme no that's your thigh fibula tibula

what's that one there thigh Fibula What's that one There's tibia and tibula Tibula Tibula But you know I'm just saying that would really It looks so painful in this fucking thing It like truly snaps him right in half

And goes through the skin No because he's wearing pants so you don't see it But it probably goes through the skin But he's screaming and freaking out pants, so you don't see it. But it probably goes through the skin. Probably goes through the skin. But he's screaming and freaking out. Then the other SWAT guys are like trying to drag him out

and then, and they like, are like yanking him back. No, ow! And they lean against the metal cage and oops, it's been electrified.

They all get electrocuted. Oh, fuck. Sparks flying everywhere. A true trap. And, but the Shin Man doesn't get electrocuted he lives oh fuck

and in the like command center they're like send send team two in no it's a fucking trap so team two goes in but no man gets left behind they pull shin guy out and then they run up the stairs fuck and at not many steps further

they find sort of jigsaw's den which is filled with all sorts of like mannequins and shit and like boxes and crates and schematics of torture devices and all that stuff. And what's Tobin Bell in that we just saw? Die Hard 2. He was in an action movie. He plays like a heavy in several action movies. It's Die Hard 2, isn't it? I think, yes. Or was it Chucky?

I think he's in that. Childs. I think he's Die Hard 2 and maybe some other stuff. I think he's Die Hard 2. He's really good in these movies, too. He's a good actor. Yeah. And they round a corner.

Speaking of Tobin Bell, there he is. Jigsaw himself in his funny little cloak. There he is. And he's just sitting there, surrounded by IVs and medicine cabinets, looking frail and weak. They scream and like, hey, put your hands up. He does. They say, get on your knees. And he says, I'm afraid I can't do that.

Oh, God. He's like just literally too frail to do it he's like very sick at this point you know eyes rimmed red skinny pale looking very bad he doesn't resist at all of course oh no they cuff him just like fucking uh what's his name scarecrow joker no yeah oh yeah i am you're thinking of the joker for sure but it is very joker like thing of the joker in um the batman with robert pattinson oh yeah yeah yeah oh yeah at the coffee shop that's what i'm thinking uh the riddler wants to be caught that's the riddler which i always was uncomfortable with the fact that the riddler had a very similar

point to the joker and the other Batman movie. Who wants to be caught. Yeah. They always want to be caught. Well, they love the cat and mouse. Oh, Tobin Bell is 81. Oh, my God. And he looks really good. I guess this was 20 years ago.

Fuck. So he was 61 but yeah i mean good for him he looks great he's in saw 10 holy shit he's in a lot of things that are really poorly rated which feels incorrect yeah i think he's like a b-movie actor you know he's so good though like christopher christopher lee was in mostly B movies in his career You know what I mean Except for fucking Lord of the Rings Excuse me

The most A movie of A movies The A-est movie A plus Oh he was in The Firm It was The Firm I'm so glad I took the time to look that up Because it was The The Firm It was The Firm I'm so glad I took the time to look that up Because it was The Fucking Firm Hell

Yes Should we rewatch The Firm tonight? Anyway So they cuff him They cuff him And he doesn't resist He's ill They're actually really quite gentle with him.

I will give them credit for this. But then Detective Matthews leans in close and he goes, is this looking close enough for you? Matthews, you fool. Smug little smile on his face. He walks away and says, take him in. Book him. Take him in, book him. Take him in, book him.

And Jigsaw goes, actually, I will need to remain here with you while you deal with your problem, Detective Matthews. Oh, no. And Detective Matthews says, what problem? And he says, the problem in that room. Oh, no. So they go to this other room. It's like a fenced off area. Nothing really going on there except for a big thing covered by a burlap sack.

A big thing covered by a burlap sack? Yeah. Oh, yay. So Detective Matthews has the bright idea He looks very pleased with himself To pull the burlap sack off of whatever it is underneath Is it his son? In a way

Joel what is it? It's a bank of monitors Computer monitors playing video Oh As if they're security cameras inside of a nasty, nasty, nasty house. And the house in one room, there's a bunch of people inside all looking mighty confused. And Detective Matthews looks close at the screen. Oh, no.

He looks at one of the people and he goes that's my son no he has my son so he goes back oh no he goes back to jigsaw and i have to go back to my first round of notes to get the specifics here because they're better i feel as if i must let the listeners know that today Joel watched Saw II twice in a row and then immediately recorded this. I went to work and Joel watched Saw II twice in a row. Insane that I made you do this. I did it to myself. Well.

I just want to be thorough. I feel like I'm wearing Sammy's skin here and I want to be thorough i i feel like i'm wearing sammy's skin here and i want to be on top of it so it just made me think of in uh midsummer when they put his penis on his penis i don't think they put his penis on his penis i think they put his penis on his pants if i wore sammy's skin this wouldn't be a problem. What? She doesn't have a penis. I don't want to

break... I don't want to think about it. But you're taller than Sammy. Here I am thinking about it. Your skin is stretchy. I just don't think it would work. Okay. And don't do that to sammy i really i'd have to break up with you i won't i'm sorry i brought it up to everyone thank you so he goes back to jigsaw and it's like you know like what's what's my son doing in there and jigsaw goes hmm well i haven't looked at the tape or the i haven't looked

at the screens for a while so i'm not really sure but i would imagine he's cowering in a corner with a look on his face and uh the detective matthew starts like screaming at him like trying to fight him get at him which is really funny to be like are you calling my son scared for being kidnapped but my son isn't scared at all he's a brave boy basically he's like and he's like where is he and he's like well you're gonna have to figure that out and you've got two hours to find it before the toxic gas seeping into his nervous system, causing him causes all of his flesh to break down and causing him to bleed out of every orifice he has. How does Jigsaw have access to so much equipment and resources? You know, there's a really interesting line later that we'll touch on that a little bit. Okay.

Because it's like, this man must be rich. He's jigsaw, you know. If he can figure this out, he can like steal some money. That's true. Yeah, that's true. Maybe he steals it. But it's just all of this is really elaborate and I'm sure expensive. Yeah, I think it would be hard to do.

I had a thought about money the other day, Joel, and you're not going to like this, but a friend of mine of ours, I had dinner with her and she just did a home improvement project. They replaced some of their windows and it was expensive. And she was like, you know,

it was more expensive than I thought it was going to be. It's a little bit stressful to get these windows put in. And it occurred to me as we were talking about it and I said it to her, she's like, well, it's still your money. But now it's windows. But you can't sell those windows and get that money back. It's illiquid. No, I know. But what's the money for?

Do you know what I mean? Like, it's like money is no i know but what's the money for do you know what i mean like it's like money is for you spend it for things for experiences for windows for value added to your life and that it's like we cry and moan about losing our money but. But when it was in your bank account, it was nothing. It was an idea. It didn't even really exist. And now it's actual physical windows. Do you see what I mean?

Yeah, I totally see what you mean. Yeah. It's just not liquid anymore. Stop saying liquid. It was nothing and now it's something. Right. Exactly. It could have been anything and now it's one thing.

It could have been anything and yet it was nothing. It can always be anything. But it could be. Once it's something, it can't be anything anymore. Right. But I mean, like, if you're forever like, well, it could be something, then it's never anything. But if you spend it on windows, then you have fucking windows and you've done something. Yeah. Windows. And if you're forever like well it Could be something then it's never anything but if You spend it on windows then you have fucking windows And you've done something yeah

Windows and if you need windows yeah I just think Everyone should spend their money On anything they want At any moment I agree I agree including jigsaw Eventually Yeah jigsaw. Eventually. Yeah.

Jigsaw should be able to spend his money on a rare neurotoxin gas. How he chooses. What was that money doing for him before? Nothing. Nothing. It could have gone to his health care because it ain't free. It really ain't. What you should really start doing is getting into like investing No

Because you can take your money and actually start to make it bigger But money isn't real Is what I'm saying Windows are real I'm just saying You know how people say that Like oh the second you drive your car Up a lot it's worth less

It's like yeah but second you drive your car up the lot, it's worthless. Yeah. It's like, yeah, but then you have a car. Like, are we forgetting about the value of having a means of transportation? No, I agree with it with cars. It's like, well, you bought a car. You have a car now. Now you have a car. Did you think you were going to, like, buy a car?

It's like... The point was to have a car, so congrats. Yeah, yeah they're a depreciating asset but that's not necessarily a bad thing that's just what they are if anybody you can like buying a honda civic is not an investment yeah you just got to get a car sometimes yeah anyway absolutely incoherent arguments from both of us I'm sure that there's somebody who's smart could like look at me like oh that's this economic philosophy and that's this

economic philosophy tell us what our economic philosophies are I don't think we really disagree on things no we don't we don't you just are more prudent and conservative I'm cheap no no no you're more prudent and conservative generally speaking'm cheap. No, no, you're more prudent and conservative. Generally speaking about, about basically all of life than me, which is it,

which is, which is just because I am a free spirit. I just, I have, you know, tomorrow is, is nothing. And it's all,

it's all today. It's all today. That's all I think about. Hmm. I think mostly about tomorrow. That's interesting. I look forward to tomorrow, but I think about today. I live for today.

Good. That's good for you. I'm so happy for you. OK, so We've just Jigsaw's just told us that His son is going to be bleeding out of every Orifice that he has And so detective Matthew says

Tell me where He is And he goes don't worry Don't worry. Don't worry. He's in a safe place. So Detective Matthews goes and he calls Daniel. He calls his son.

His son doesn't answer. It goes to voicemail. And the voicemail goes, hello, Detective Matthews. Daniel isn't available to answer the phone right now. It's just Jigsaw left it made in custom voicemail. So

they're like, so all of these like cops and SWAT people are like, fuck, we gotta like figure this out. So the SWAT leader, the like aggro guy is like, call the bomb squad, call the tech team. Let's figure out like where they are. Let's, there's like a countdown clock in here counting down like two

hours which is the same amount of time that they have in the house and they're like what's going to happen in two hours holy shit what you know like we got to get the bomb squad here uh so now we like they all like look into the monitors at the people in the house and we do like a stylized segue where the camera moves zooms into into the screen, passes through it. And now we're in the house. And we are in this one single room that all these people are locked in. There is one, two, three, four, five, six, seven people in here. Okay.

Including Daniel? Including. No, not including Daniel. Good question. So there's eight. Great. And they're all kind of different archetypes of people. And as it kind of come to, we learn very little about them.

So I have our- Oh, they were unconscious? No, they just like sort of like figure this out. Oh, okay. One, well, so you kind of are figuring out and you get like little tidbits of information about them and you're just like running off of cues from either something that they've said or what they look like, like their wardrobe, their physicality, you know, that kind of thing. And so we've got somebody who makes it clear that they're an ex-con who will refer to as

ex-con. Okay. We've got somebody who's like very beefy, big guy, strong. We'll call him beefy. Great. We've got a girl who looks very beefy, big guy, strong. We'll call him beefy. Great. We've got a girl who looks like she parties. Party girl. We got a schlubby guy in a suit.

We're going to call him the slob. Oh, okay. We got a creepy guy in a hoodie. The creep. We've got a girl who looks like she loves a pumpkin spice latte and an unconscious woman. Who looks... Unconscious. Okay, great.

You don't really see her. Okay. You see like her legs as X-Con is like trying to wake her up. They're all confused. And we have kind of two emergent leaders or two emergent philosophies among the group. The X-Con is like, let's make a plan. Let's calm down. Let's figure out what's happening.

And beefy is like, we just got to fucking do something. Fuck a plan. Like, let's just get the fuck out of here. Okay. Well, I mean, we would all like to, but. Yeah. How? We know who we like more already.

So they're all confused. Tension is starting to brew. These people don't know who each other more already. So they're all confused. Tension is starting to brew. These people don't know who each other are. They're scared. The slob is talking about how like he saw a documentary about a journalist who got kidnapped and woke up in some room and was in there for nine years. They're all freaking out. It ain't gonna be nine years, my friend.

It ain't gonna be nine. Then the unconscious woman wakes up And she looks around and goes like Where am I where am I And she looks around and looks around And she is all of a sudden very not confused She starts to panic Searches around the room looking for

Looking for something looking for anything And totally freaking out X-Con grabs her and is like what what's your name? Who are you? And she's like, my name is Amanda. She might be a little familiar. Her wrists are bandaged as if she had cut her wrists. She even saw one?

Yes. She's freaking out, looking around and she finds hidden behind a brick a tape player. No. And they're like, what the fuck? Why aren't you confused? What are you looking for? How did you find that?

And she's like, what's on this tape is going to tell you everything you need to know. Damn, Amanda, that shit sucks. She plays the tape. We get kind of the same rundown as before you guys there's a there's a nerve agent pumping through the vents you're breathing it in in two hours you'll be dead

in three hours all of the doors of this place will unlock and open but of course you'll be dead by then however there are antidotes to the toxin and this was a nerve toxin that was used in the japanese subway attack that must have happened right around this time that's how he got his hands on it it's like a chemical agent that you can get i don't know yeah um but he's like they're you all going to die unless you find the antidotes. There's antidotes hidden around the house. Enough for everybody. And, you know, that's how you'll get out. Oh, boy.

Then in the same envelope that the tape was in is a little note and a little key. And Beefy, Mr. Like, let's just fucking go. He takes it out, pulls, grabs the key and like looks at the note and the note just says, don't use this key on that door. That's funny. Yeah, it's like very Looney Tunes. I mean, Jigsaw's having a good time.

And he's very bullheaded. Beefy's bullheaded. They're like, don't fucking use it. Amanda's like, don't use it. Like it says don't use it. So don't fucking use it. You got to follow the rules. Uh-huh. And I mean, I can understand being like, well, I'm. Like, it says don't use it, so don't fucking use it. You gotta follow the rules. Uh-huh. I mean, I can understand being like, well, I'm gonna fucking listen to this guy. But, you know, yeah.

So, Beefy's like, fuck it. I would let Beefy try it, though. Yeah, fuck it, I'm gonna use it. He runs to the, it's like a big metal, like, it looks like a, almost like a vault door. Like, still square shaped, square shape like metal super heavy duty you're not you're not pushing your way through that shit goes up to it puts the key in and slobby man looks through the like peephole he's like peering through it beefy unlocks it and the camera like whips around to the other side of the door and there's a like a fucking magnum gun rigged up that as

he twists the key the trigger gets pulled and slob gets shot through his head it basically blows his fucking head off and he falls blood sprays everywhere slob is dead should have been beefy should have been beefy but beefy was smart enough not

to peek through the hole s Slob was a fucking idiot Yeah And Amanda's like you have to understand It's a game he's testing us And he wants us to survive But you have to play by the rules You have to play by the rules What happened to her

Well perfect time for you to ask Cause he The ex kind of goes how do you know this? And she goes, I've played the game before. And we flashback. God, that sucks. And she's the woman who was in the bear trap in Saw 1. Oh, God.

Why does he keep targeting her? She already played the game. Well, we'll find out. Oh, good. And we certainly recognize her. And we We certainly recognize her She was when she cut a key Out of another person's stomach

To unlock Killing him to unlock the bear trap on her face She survived and Understood that he Broke her addiction Because he taught her the value of life And so But she's back

What might have happened She does have those bandages on her fucking wrist relapsed maybe because of the unbelievable trauma of murdering someone could be so we cut back to the factory and they decide like we got to call this tech team in to figure out where this video feed is coming to uh this is like the SWAT team they're like calling our tech people we got to trace the signal of this video feed um and so Jigsaw says like to Detective Matthews like I want to talk alone with you just you and me where's Detective Carrie she's in the monitor room with the SWAT leader so Jigsaw says this to detective Matthews. I want to talk to you alone. Detective Matthews goes back to the monitor room with Carrie and the leader

SWAT leader. And they have a bit of a debate. Like, do I fucking sit down and talk to this dude? Or do we do the quote old school method, which is basically beat it, beat the information out of him. That doesn't work. work uh because he's like

you know he has my son there's a two-hour time limit do i waste my fucking time talking to him or do i beat the shit out of him and get what i need to know it doesn't work and in this moment is when we confirm that in fact carrie and uh matthews had an affair. She like leans over. She like walks over to him and is like, you already lost your son's son once because of what we did. You don't lose him again. Follow the rules. I'm the jigsaw expert. Just do what he fucking says.

There we go, Carrie. And he dithers and isn't sure what he's going to do. We cut back to the house. The locked door that the gun shot through suddenly pops open. Just opens on its own. They peek around. It was on a timer. It was meant to open at this moment. They all step out cautiously into a hallway.

And in the hallway, Beefy finds a baseball bat with nails hammered into it and one of the clues that they received in that first tape was like this first tape was really dense it was like full of so much shit so i'm getting to one point now which is that at one point he says x marks the spot, which is something that he says in one. So they know that they're looking for an X to find the first most important clue of why they're all there. And in this tape, he's like, you're all here for a reason.

There's something that connects all of you. Find the X and you'll figure out why you're all here. So they're all looking for the X. We find this baseball bat. They're walking around um again the x-con is like we need to form a plan beefy is like fuck you i don't care about your fucking plan i'm on my own i don't care about you guys like this isn't some fortress it's a house these walls are plaster we can fucking get out of here i'm not worrying about you guys just break through

all the walls he He's beefy. And he's a big bat. And to him, to be fair to him, he's like, what are we going to do? Sit around and make a plan for 30 minutes. And then two hours. Yeah, I guess. I mean, try to break down the wall. Sure.

I like I'm fine. I'm fine with that. If I'm one of those people. Yeah. And like while this while the like debate about are they going to have a plan or not is happening like they're all coughing. I was going to say like you're going to be dead in two hours before that. You're probably going to be massively debilitated. Yeah.

So like most of the rest of this movie is them being like coughing out of breath, debilitated on the verge of death, like being poisoned. Oh, man. And like there are there's already blood coming up for some of them as they cough. The first time I realized blood could come up when you coughed was Moulin Rouge. And I remember watching it and not knowing what tuberculosis was, but being like, what the fuck? It's crazy, right? Yeah. It's crazy to think.

It would be so alarming. Crazy that it used to happen to people all the time. They get consumption and that would be it. Really bad. You just do that. You know, people like to talk about how like, oh, it's we're living in a really bad time and we are. But I think we've always been living in a bad time with the exception of maybe like 1990 to 2000 2000 depending on who you are fair but yeah i mean at one point in time the life was bad because

nature was killing ruthless and now life is bad because people are evil, dumb and bad. And we've caused nature to be killing us. Yeah. And then in between, there were like so many plagues. Yeah. And no understanding of medicine. That's kind of the world history. Dirty and gross. So bubonic plague, black plague.

And just like illnesses. we just like illnesses that we just didn't they would just kill you yeah do you know what is really crazy i watched a video the other day of somebody who had rabies and if you show somebody with rabies a glass of water they freak out what is up with that people say that I've heard this, but what the fuck is that? Because the rabies... It's like the virus is recoiling? Like in

the thing? Like touching the thing to the thing and it freaks out? You can't swallow. And rabies... You can't swallow? Rabies infects your salivatory glands. Oh my God. Spig glands, whatever.

And it like doesn't want you to drink water to wash it away or something. And so you choke on it. Oh my God. It's like literally has a mind of its own. Yeah. And it controls, it like tells your nervous system to like run away from water. Holy fucking shit. It must be very clear like how like holy water got associated with like anti-demonic shit. It's like people had rabies and like. They'd like, holy water got associated with, like, anti-demonic shit.

It's like people had rabies and, like... They'd freak out about water. And they would, like, recoil from it. I mean, yeah, I would think that was demonic. Yeah, me too. So... Okay. Where am I?

Okay. They're coughing up blood. Yeah, they're... Okay. So, like, they're coughing and blood is coming out. Then they walk in they into the foyer of this house they find a big double door and on the door is painted exit and so bv has the key and he's like i'm gonna unlock the door and they're like you don't know

what's behind that don't fucking do it he thinks about it this is the the absolute last kind of person i'd want to be in this situation with. Correct. And he, but he chickens out. He decides not to, not to unlock it. And the last time he did that, somebody got shot in the fucking head. Yeah. And he throws the key aside. Don't do that. The ex-con picks it up.

Okay, great. But they are like, well, okay, so what are we going to do? We cut back to the factory, which is where the cops are always. And Jigsaw's like, okay, I want to. And so Detective Matthews is like, okay, I'll talk to you. One on one. And Jigsaw's like, okay. Detective Matthews, I want to play a game.

Oh, no. The rules are very simple. In fact, there's only one rule. You just need to sit and talk to me and listen. And if you do that, you'll see your son again and you'll see that he's in a safe and secure place. That's it. That's the rule. And so he's like, fucking, all right, fine. Jigsaw, huh? What a fucking crazy name. And he's like, well, I actually never took that name myself. That was the police in the newspapers or whatever. I only ever carve those out to represent what people are missing that each of my each of these people is missing something important to understanding the nature of life and Matthews

is like not having any of it he's like fuck you dude you're just fucking crazy nothing you do is justified you're a murderer and he's like I never killed he's like I never killed anybody and they kind of like go back and forth on on that sort of thing and eventually matthews is like look man i don't want to listen to this fucking shit the clock is ticking my son is in danger and i need to know like just give me the information there's like there's no manual for how i'm supposed to deal with this and he's like oh a manual a you didn't used to be interested in the manual. What would you have done five years ago, Detective Matthews?

Would you have beat me? Would you have broken my jaw with a flashlight? You used to be a real cop, a brave cop. Now you're just behind a desk. You used to be a real cop. You would beat the shit out of people He's like prodding him Sure but I don't love that

Well just wait So he's like kind of laying into him Being like There's something about Detective Matthews that Jigsaw knows He's not who he once was Yes and now he's kind of like Stuck behind a desk

We know he was dealing with internal affairs investigations. Oh, sure. And then Jigsaw goes, would you get me a glass of water? And he jiggles his little empty glass. Just proving he doesn't have rabies. Yeah. Smart idea. We should all be proving that all the time.

So Matthews agrees. He'll like go get him a glass of water. We cut back to the house. Beefy is slamming on this door with his baseball bat and peels away a chunk of it. They're sealed in. They can't get out through this door. But in the process, the ex-con notices that beefy has a prison tattoo on his arm and he's like did you do a bid in such and such a place i did a bid there too okay we're connecting

they look at an um another person who's with them and realize like three of them have done time in prison and x-con is like trying to like get everybody to like talk about this is like that's something that three of us have in common but then the pumpkin spice girl is like i found a door and so that conversation is cut short they all run to this door and it leads to a basement. Not good. So they go down into this basement. It's dark and nasty. And they find a creepy doll. Freaky, nasty.

Very much like the game where they pull it. It's covered in something. They open it up and it's like a freaky little clown doll. And it has a knife stabbed into it with an envelope. and on the envelope is a name ob and they're like ob ob okay obi and they're like who the fuck is ob and then mr creep goes obby is how you pronounce it but that's my name which. I don't know why. It must be an inside joke. And there's a tape inside the envelope. They play it and it's Jigsaw going Obi, Obi, Obi.

Obi, Obi, Obi. But he says Obi, which is really funny. It's Obi. Obi, you burnt the people around you with your games and your lies. And blah, blah, blah, blah. Talks about him that and he's like

there's a big like crematorium style oven in the basement and he's like inside the oven are two doses of the antidote one for you as payment for helping me kidnap all of these people

and one for you as payment for helping me kidnap all of these people. And one for you to donate to like a lucky winner. And he says, remember, Obi, once you're in hell, only the devil can get you out. So they're like, Obi, what the fuck? And then Pumpkin Spice goes, wait wait a minute i remember you kidnapped me i got into my car and he put he like you put chloroform rag over my fucking mouth you kidnapped me and they're all like get us out of here and he's like i can't get you out of here i didn't think i was gonna be in here oh and mind you he looks creepy as fucking shit he's so creepy uh so beefy has the knife that the uh was in the envelope yeah and he holds it up to uh creepy's throat and is like

either you go and get those fucking antidotes or i'm gonna cut your fucking neck right now or I'm going to cut your fucking neck right now. Creepy takes the knife and starts cutting his own neck. Not all the way in, but like a dramatic amount and goes like, if you're going to put a knife to me, you better be willing to fucking go all the way.

Oh shit. So anyway, it's like a very tense standoff and Obi goes like, well, I guess I'll like go in and fucking get these antidotes. So he goes in He climbs in and there's two Syringes of antidote

To inject Hanging on chains inside of the oven He grabs the first one We're all good Then he grabs the second one And it triggers the door Of the oven to shut And lock and the oven of the oven to shut and lock. And the oven turns on.

So there's fire shooting up through the floor grates, starting at one end, moving towards him. And he's screaming. They're trying to get the doors open. They can't. The whole thing is getting too hot for them to even touch. He's in there. Along with an antidote. Along with two antidotes.

Because he didn't get the other one out. No. And so they're all like trying to get him out, trying to get him out. The fire is getting closer to him. He looks over to the side and he sees there's a little valve with a devil pointing to it. Like a little water valve. Once you're in hell, the devil can get you out. But it's consumed in flame.

And he would have to like reach through it and burn his hand off to like turn the valve off it's hot but he's too he can't do it he like can't bring himself to do it you would I wouldn't cut my own eyeball out but that I think I would do

that one I think I would do yeah right don't ever test me on that one please don't test me but I think I could do. Yeah. Right. Don't ever test me on that one. I don't. Yeah. Please don't test me. But I think I could do that one. But. Fuck. He. That's a good question with every one of these we should talk about if we

would do it or not. Yeah that one I would do. Okay. So he won't do it. They're all running around like trying to figure out how to get him out and then Daniel the son notices there's a glass window on the other side and that if beefy uses his bat he can break it so beefy starts breaking at it breaking at it breaking at it meanwhile creep is burning burning burning up screaming screaming screaming like high-pitched freaky screams they do a great job

with screams in this movie and he gets burned up they break the window open he starts to try to climb out but he can't fit and he doesn't bring the the antidotes with him and he just dies he just burns to death he cooks oh fuck all the antidote the two antidotes that were in there are lost yeah it's over they probably can't get up to that temp anyway yeah they're all freaking out and uh amanda walks up the stairs and she goes he had a chance or he had a choice. She like he didn't play the game. He lost the game. So we cut back to the factory.

Fuck. And they do a really funny bit where like Jigsaw just is blathering on. He's being so tedious and annoying. And he's like talking to Detective Matthews about Darwinism. And he's basically being like, we don't know how to survive anymore. It used to be that humans had a drive to live. Why is this your

thing, man? And like Detective Matthews says, I don't want to hear any of this. Okay? This sucks. This sucks. The clock is ticking. I just want my son. And jigsaw says remember the rules you have to sit and talk to me he's like you're not listening and then he asked what do you think the cure for cancer is detective matthews again it's like i don't fucking care

i just want to like like you're a killer you're a murderer i don't want to hear it and he's like this is when he's like i've never killed anyone and he's like putting a gun to somebody's head and making them pull the trigger is murder like forcing them to do that is murder dude and he and jigsaw says since when is force a problem for you, Detective Matthews? And then he starts talking about the last. He goes, what was the last thing you said to Daniel to go away? And we realize he was the man fishing behind him in that scene. Oh, wow. Well played, Joel.

Yeah, thank you. You really threw that away. Listening in. And he heard the last thing he said. And Detective Matthews is suddenly very ashamed about sending his son away like that. And Jigsaw says, why are we only willing to act when life is at stake? And like, why is it that you only forgive your son's sins when his life is at risk and not before that? What's wrong with you? at risk and not before that what's wrong with you and he then walks through his own like kind of origin and like explains like we cut we cut to a flashback of him getting his cancer diagnosis with dr lawrence from so i want carrie elwes yeah and then you see him after he hears the news he's sitting in his car the world is different everything has changed for him the air smells different and and he's like

fully changed you know what i mean and he um and he realizes like what's at stake and matthews again, is like, fuck off. I think I'm going to kill a bunch of people. He's like, fuck off. Like, you can fix this. Like, right now, just tell me where they are. And Jigsaw says, but can we fix you? Matthews is like, so, okay, what?

You got cancer and you started killing people? That's hardly a fucking excuse. And Jigsaw tells him, no, it wasn't the cancer that set me to this. It's when I tried to kill myself and I failed. himself after his diagnosis and survived. And the idea that his body could survive that, but couldn't fend off the cancer, like awakened something in his mind. He also, in the crash, like impaled himself on a piece of metal and like pulled it out himself and suddenly felt more alive than he's ever felt. And he looks to Matthews and says, you feel a lot more alive than you've ever felt right now, looks to Matthews and says, you feel a lot more alive than you've ever felt right now, don't you? Or at least that you felt in a long time. He's like, that's when I really realized those who don't appreciate life don't deserve it. Do you appreciate yours, Detective Matthews? Do you appreciate yours? And Detective Matthews goes,

Matthews, do you appreciate yours? And Detective Matthews goes, my son appreciates his. And he says, do you appreciate your sons? And we cut to the house. Jesus. Pumpkin Spice girl is fading. She's having a really hard time with this toxin. Daniel, the son, is like trying to like revive her, trying to keep her going.

Aw, sweetie. He's a sweetie. And it's him, you've you survived it before what are you still doing here like how did he get you before and she's like i was a junkie but i passed his test um he's like so why are you here again and she looks at her wrist and we cut to a flashback she's cutting her wrist with uh a razor blade and he's like but you were an addict before when like and she's like yeah i started using in jail and he was like what were you arrested for possession and he was like so if you were arrested for but you didn't use drugs before you were in jail why were you arrested for possession and she's like why don't you ask

the cop who arrested me and they're talking and daniel makes a very conscious choice he almost says that his dad is a cop and he goes, my dad's just a real hard ass. He's starting to sniff. He doesn't want them to know his dad's a cop. Then the ex-con runs up. He's like, we found a door. He's coughing up a shitload of blood at this point. And they go to this door where Beefy and Party Girl are trying to get it open, but it's like hard to get open.

And they're like, be really careful. Like if you if it's if it's like locked like this, obviously it's a trap. So like and Beefy's like, I don't give a shit. And he pushes it open, triggers, triggers something. And they see a little countdown on another another like metallic locked door. Three minutes. They're like fucking whatever it is that's about to happen, it's going to happen in three minutes. And they find another envelope for Xavier, who is beefy.

And they play the tape. And basically, it says like, Xavier, you're a drug dealer. And you give people promises of a better life that they'll never be able to have. promises of a better life that they'll never be able to have. Your game is I'm going to make you crawl into the same pit of squalor that you force addicts into to make your living. Oh, God. And there's a bed in this room and they pull it aside and beneath the bed is a king sized bed pit of used fucking syringes. Oh my god.

There are approximately 250,000 used syringes. Or maybe it's 25,000. It's a shitload of fucking used dirty, filthy syringes inside. Oh no.

At the bottom of this pit is the key to open the door to get an antidote. If they don't get that key in the next minute and a half now, that door is locked forever. No antidote. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. So they all start freaking out.

This is Xavier's game. Is this the scene? This is the scene. Xavier panics. Is this the scene? This is the scene. Xavier panics. He grabs Amanda. Picks her up and throws her into the pit. No! She lands

hard on top of all of these syringes and is immediately pierced by 20, 25, 30 syringes. It is so gnarly. It is for me hard to watch. She starts digging through it.

Oh, God. Oh, fuck. Because she's been through this before. She knows how hard. She knows what she has to do. She's killed somebody for this shit before. She starts raking through these things, screaming, screaming like a feral animal as she gets stuck by dozens upon dozens upon dozens of foul, nasty needles. Oh, she's so fucked.

She's raking them away like they're leaves. Like her hands are fucked. She's screaming. She's in so much pain. She's doing it. They're plunging into her. Come on, it ain't just the pain, baby. What is on those needles?

Yeah, they're hanging off of her body, her arms, her torso, her legs, her fucking shoulders. She digs and digs and digs and she only digs more and more intensely and recklessly as the clock winds down we're at like 20 seconds 15 seconds digging digging digging screaming screaming screaming she finds the key screams the gnarliest scream that i've heard in a long time slams the key down on the floor beefy picks it up runs to the door drops the key doesn't pick it up

in time time expires the door locks too late so daniel hoists amanda out of there she is quiver like trembling in pain beefy screaming her like, how could you fuck this up? And he storms out as Daniel plucks these needles out of her. Oh my god. It is so nasty. She digs through like, it's like a three foot

deep pit of these things. Dirty, rusty. They have close-ups of them. They're like so... There's like almost as if there'd be little hairs on them. You know what I mean? She's so fucked. Oh my God.

It's so bad. So now, in this moment... Oh, I hate Beefy. We hate him. And in this moment, as Amanda's kind of trying to recover, Pumpkin Spice walks in and goes, I was in prison too. And they're like, what for? And she goes, it doesn't matter.

But I was in prison too. That makes four of us. And they look at Daniel. They're like, did you do time? And he's like, no. I mean, I guess I've had problems, but like, no. did you do time? And he's like,

no, I mean, I guess I've had problems, but like, no. Um, but now they know that everybody except for Daniel wasn't did jail time. His dad arrested all of them. So we cut to the factory.

There's 30 minutes left on the clock. Fuck, fuck, fuck. Detective Carrie is like, they're trying to like figure out how do we fucking crack jigsaw? He's like, and detective Carrie is like, uh're trying to like figure out how do we fucking crack jigsaw he's like and detective carrie's like uh threatened to destroy his work there's all these like schematics and diagrams here threatened to destroy it uh and maybe that will get him to confess

and because he's like you know serial killers or narcissists and whatever and so detective matthews goes and like grabs all his work tears it apart, slams it on the table. And Jigsaw's like, go ahead, kill it or destroy it. And he's like, I don't care. And Matthews is like, if you kill my son, I'll kill you. And Jigsaw's like, why wait? We know the sort of person you are. Guns down an unarmed suspect, plants evidence to get a conviction.

Man whose wife leaves him and his son hates him. Those are, I would say, Jigsaw, to be fair, two very different topics to come at me about. But we're really starting to put some things together. And Jigsaw goes, I have something to show you. Eli, I'm done talking. i just want you to see something it's actually in the monitor room in a in a drawer the second drawer down and uh they pull it out and it's a file full of mug shots and uh arrest papers for everybody in the house. And you were the arresting officer

and you planted the evidence that put them away. Planted it? Each one of them he planted evidence to get them arrested. Oh, that's a lot of cases. Yeah. But he got all these medals. He was a big deal of a cop and he planted evidence to put these people away.

Wow. What a piece of shit. Including to poor Amanda, who got put away and then for drug possession only to then get addicted to heroin in jail. She wasn't even a user before she went in. So he's a bad motherfucker. Oh boy. So then he's like, Jigsaw points out, all of these people are locked in a house with your son. It'd be a shame if they figured out who he was. Oh, my God.

So we cut to the house. Beefy is back in that safe room. The ex-con is like trying to follow him in. He's like literally puking blood at this point. Jesus Christ. And Beefy's like thinking through how to get out, how to get out. And he remembers on the tape that Jigsaw had said the code to the safe to get out is somewhere in the back of your mind. Beefy realizes like, oh, I should look at the back of your mind. Beefy realizes, like,

oh, I should look at the back of everybody's fucking head. And there's little... Yeah, and so he looks at Slob, his body, who's down, like, laying there. He, like, turns the head, and he sees there's a little number. Ex-con walks in, and tries to, like, basically be like,

hey, man, look, I know what it's like. I've been in prison, too. I know what it's like. I've been in prison, too. I know what it's like to like find enemies everywhere you go. But we got to work together to get out of here. I got to get out of here because I got enemies outside these walls who are going to come after my family if I don't come out of here. I can't have enemies in here. It's like, can we just fucking work together?

And Beefy's like, all right, turn around. And X-Con's like, what are you fucking talking about? I'm not turning around. And Beefy pulls out his knife all right, turn around. And X-Con's like, what are you fucking talking about? I'm not turning around. And Beefy pulls out his knife and goes, turn around. And so X-Con fights him because he thinks he's going to get stabbed. They get into a big fight. Use your words, man. Yeah.

Beefy gets like, hits his head on this big safe that's in the middle of the room. But he gets up, grabs his baseball bat, and thwacks X-Con in the back of his head as hard as he can. X-Con is dead. And Beefy looks at the back of his neck. The number is 16 on the back of his neck. So we cut back into

a hallway. Pumpkin Spice is very bad. She falls over. She's at the end of her line. And before like she's like barely conscious and she goes, she points up and goes, X marks the spot. And there is a framed picture that's like the glass of the frame is cracked in an X shape. And Party Girl takes the photo of the frame off, opens it. And there's a photograph of Daniel

and Detective Matthews. Oh, no. On the back of the photograph, it says, Father and Son. And so Party Girl's like, what the fuck? He's your dad? He fucking set me up and put me away. And Amanda's like, that's your fucking dad? Please don't tell me that's your fucking dad.

That's not his fault. Yeah, and he's like, I didn't know. I Please don't tell me that's your fucking dad. That's not his fault. Yeah, and he's like, I didn't know. I didn't know. And then they're interrupted because Pumpkin Spice starts to seizure. She chokes on her own blood. He's been so nice to everybody. Yeah, and she dies. Pumpkin Spice is gone.

How long has it been? Over an hour and a half at this point. So we're in the endgame here. The whole team is starting to fall apart, obviously. Beefy just killed Excon. Everybody now, except for Beefy, now knows that Daniel's dad framed them and put them all away.

Beefy's blood crazy a little bit. He has a knife, and he's running around looking for everybody because he wants to get those numbers off of their necks. So now we're in a very fun kind of like slashery, Terminator-y, Shining-y moment where they're all also like dying and like being poisoned and like hardly able to walk anymore. They're like all leaning against the walls, staggering and stumbling around out of breath. leaning against the walls staggering and stumbling around out of breath and uh amanda and daniel like amanda leaves daniel at first but then she comes back to him after she finds that the ex-con has been killed by beefy she figures this out she goes to daniel and it's like basically like i'll

protect you like you're a kid yeah it's not your fault and so beefy's like walking around now trying to like collect numbers he goes down to the basement gets creeps number it's number 11 he finds pumpkin spice dead in the hallway hers is number eight but right next to her body is of course the picture and he finds it realizes that Daniel is detective Matthews his son and now he really wants to talk to the kid and it's a great

sequence there's like running around this house screaming at each other beefy's like Amanda kid I just want the numbers on your necks they're all fucking dying and coughing and stuff we cut back to the factory. Matthews is watching this happen on the monitors now.

And he's like, okay, I've re-sanded my rope. I'm not talking. I'm going to beat the shit out of this motherfucker. I'm going to get my answers. So he goes in. He beats the fuck out of Jigsaw, slams him from wall to wall, punches him. There's a really funny moment where Jigsaw's like, ah, that's the old Detective Matthews.

But he's like holding his hand up and Matthews grabs his pointer finger and just breaks it. And Jigsaw screams so loud. Oh, wow, that would really hurt. He's like starting to kind of cave to the physical battery here. He's like getting the shit kicked out of him. He's a cancer patient. Torture doesn't work. here. He's like getting the shit kicked out of him. He's a cancer patient. Torture doesn't work. Yeah, he's like ill.

This is bad for him. But he also like managed to get out like, now that's the Detective Matthews they gave the medals to. We cut back to the house. Daniel and Amanda are running from Beefy. Party girl then is on her own. She's walking around. She opens the door she walks into another a new room and she finds another antidote but this antidote was meant for

amanda we're kind of trading our little antidote traps but this one has a syringe inside of a box on the bot that is attached to the ceiling, a glass box. The bottom of the box has two little arm holes. Simple enough, right? You reach into the box, you grab the syringe, you pull it out. Does it make you think of like fear factor?

It kind of is, yeah. You pull it out, you go on your way. So she runs up to it. Oh God. Desperate, of course. Reaches in. But the little arm holes are actually razor blades

that can be pushed up but not down. Ugh! So she reaches up. Like those tire things. What tire things? Like when you drive into an exit

That it's like if you drive the right way It doesn't break them but if you go the wrong way Very similar principle And so she grabs a syringe and even fucking Yanks it off of its plunger and spills all the antidote Out anyway And now her arms up to like her Her hands down to her wrists are stuck

In this box And there's only one way to get them out Which is basically to deglove Oneself down to her wrists are stuck in this box oh fuck and there's only one way to get them out which is basically to deglove oneself oh oh oh okay okay oh okay i thought i was thinking i was thinking like wrist like a like like cut your wrist no no it's a it's a deg no It's a deglove No yeah it's like Tightly Against her skin

She would have to like drag her hands Through How fast could you do it Well that's the question do you go really fast or do you have to go really slow I don't know Oh I think you go so fast I don't think you could I think you would take multiple jerks.

Well, that makes me sick. But this is a very classic saw trap, which is just like you lose your hands, but you survive. Do you lose your hands or do you lose your skin? Oh, we should go back to the syringes. Would you do that one? Fuck. Fuck. I don't think I would do the syringe one.

I think I would die. Because I don't know what i'm taking out with me yeah i mean that's a really good point oh that's a good point i don't know i haven't seen it so in my mind it sort of was like a ball pit and i'm like yeah painful ball pit i would do that but i know that's not what it is yeah and a lot of if you can like get past the dirtiness of it it's not the worst yeah it would like hurt but it wouldn't be so crazy you know um okay but wait wait wait wait this thing this thing lose your hands or lose the skin on your hands i think all of the meat would come off of them all the meat and maybe your whole hand would end up coming off too. Now, if she had just reached one hand up and kept one out, she probably could have like

dropped it. Held the metal kind of open. Too greedy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, why would you shoot both hands up in there? In that house? I'm not shooting both in.

No. In fact, I'm going to try to knock the box off the ceiling at first. I just can't imagine reaching both hands through for anything. Well, what's interesting is she starts with one and then goes with the other. Yeah, I wouldn't do that. But I think I would maybe try this one, but I don't know if I could do it. She's not thinking clearly at this point. I would try, though, to go so fast.

Because it would hurt so bad. It would be awful. try though to go so fast because it would hurt so bad it'd be awful i think there's a real possibility that the way that it's built it would like tighten around your wrist until it cut your hand off and i don't know if i could manage that no and like well and then it's like can you really give yourself the antidote that's a really good point if you don't have a hand well you could do it with your hand is so fucked i mean maybe in your mouth into your thigh push the plunger with your tongue after that much pain i don't think you can do it it wouldn't hurt at all at that point the the needle the needle wouldn't you're you are fucked yeah i'd be frenzied at that point i don't

know man that one's tough and she realizes how bad it is and she again screams and man her screams are gnarly screams are bad really high-pitched screams um what does she do what does she do well we leave her there for the moment um jigsaw is really mean like this punishment isn't even about them it's about detective matthews correct that's what's so fucked i mean i guess beefy deserves it but well they're all guilty of what they did it's just he ensured their convictions sure which is a very what i think one of the things i really like about this movie is like in other movies that kind of is sometimes like valorized with cops. Yeah, it's interesting.

He's like he's the bad guy for sure. And Jigsaw is a really interesting foil to Detective Matthews because they both have their own sense of justice and and their own sense of like moral deliverance yeah don't get me wrong duke saw is worse um but detective matthews is a piece of shit yeah he's a piece of shit and it's definitely colored for me by the fact that he's also a walberg but no he's perfectly cast as of 2023 yeah so we haven't actually left party girl yet she's staying there screaming blood so much blood is already streaming down her arms dripping onto her face pooling inside this box and then beefy walks in and he walks up oh god she's screaming for help and he just gently pushes the hair away from the back of her neck, gets her number, number nine, and leaves. Walks away.

Shuts the door behind him. And she screams, screams, screams, screams, screams, screams, screams. I hate him. So, now, Amanda and Daniel, we're back in the first room we were in with the safe in it. So now Amanda and Daniel were back in the first room we were in with the safe in it. And they're like holding that big metal door shut because they know Beefy's coming. He's screaming really scary. We go into the factory and now Detective Matthews is continuing to absolutely fucking pummel Jigsaw. He pulls out his gun, sticks it in Jigsaw's mouth, and is like, fucking tell me where my son is.

And Jigsaw very weakly goes, game over. I'll tell you where he is. I'll take you there. But I'll only take you. Nobody else can come, okay? I'll do it. I'll do it. So he's like, how do we get out of here?

And Jigsaw goes, that little button over there press it you better do it fast because time's running out and he detective matthews presses his little button and the whole little table that he was sitting at this whole little room was a little freight elevator that's that the gate's shut and this starts going down and all the SWAT team is like fuck they're leaving we to go try to get them. At that exact moment, the tech team who has come in has like, we trace the signal. We know where the house is. So now Detective Matthews is driving in a van.

Yet again, in Saw 1, if you recall, the car driving shots are like really cheap and bad. It's also really cheap and bad in this one. That's very funny. He's driving in a van with Jigsaw, punching him to get every direction that he gives. He's like, which way do I go? Punch. Go right.

Which way do I go? Go straight. The SWAT team now is also racing to the scene because they know where they're at, getting directions themselves going. We cut into the house. Beefy's trying to force his way into that metal door banging on it charging into it amanda and daniel these two little weak meek

little people are trying to hold him back there's no way they're gonna be able to pull it forever or keep it there forever so amanda pulls the spiked bat out of x-con's head and wedges it into the door to like try to give them a little bit of extra security. And it works pretty good. It's kind of like a little doorstop. Sure. And now we get into the car and we get a really nice little fun like horror Easter egg where Matthews is like, which way do I go? And Jigsaw says, take a left here. And it's the last house on the left, which is a Stephen King.

Cut back into the house. house on the left which is a stephen king but uh cut back into the house amanda now they've got this sort of door wedge in so they can like step away from the door and she finds a trap door is under the safe it's been there all along the only reason she notices is because x-con's blood is pooling in a way that like indicates shows like a space underneath yeah uh and they're like how do we fucking open it? It's locked. And Dana goes, the key from the envelope. The very beginning. From the very beginning. Oh, my God.

They use it. It opens the trap door. They go down just as Beefy breaks through the big heavy metal door. So a classic Saw fashion. It was there all along. If they had just fucking made a plan, spent some time figuring it out. In the car, Matthews arrives and Jigsaw, before he gets out of the car, peels back a little piece of medical tape that's holding an IV into his hand.

And there's a key. And he goes, you're going to need this inside the house. Maybe this is his plan all along. In the house, Beefy breaks in At the same time Matthews gets into the house He uses the key to unlock a chain He gets inside

Cut back Beefy's chasing Amanda and Daniel down this like Into this like basement-y Sewery area Pipes and shit everywhere And they're chasing and running While Detective Matthews is searching the house like basement-y, sewer-y area, pipes and shit everywhere. And they're chasing and running while Detective Matthews is searching the house. He's got a flashlight out.

He's like looking around for evidence of where anybody is. It's like dark in the house. He's like looking around trying to find it. Meanwhile, the SWAT team now breaks in through the front door that had exit painted on it. But we cut back to the monitor room and they're like, we're here, we're in. And Carrie's like, I don't see you guys. Where are you? Like, I can't see you on the monitors.

We cut back into the house. Amanda and Daniel get to this like big giant sliding door and they open it and they step into a room and they both immediately gag. It smells so fucking bad. And Amanda reaches over and flips the light switch and fluorescent light goes. Just like a string of fluorescent lights turn on really fucking freaky. They look around. It's a filthy tiled bathroom. There's a toilet with a heart Painted in shit on it It's the original bathroom

From Saw 1 They look around There are two desiccated Corpses in there Lawrence And Adam are still in there Lawrence's foot Is like

Mummified on the ground. The saw itself is there and they're trapped in this dead end room where Saw 1 entirely took place in. Incredible.

Incredible. So Beefy finds the door as we cut to Matthews finds the trap door in the safe room. Again, looking around with this flashlight, trying to find he finds X-Con's body, screaming for Daniel to see where he is. And now Beefy opens that sliding door and Daniel is gone. He's dead. And Amanda's sitting with him, like, looking at Beefy. Like, he's dead. Like, please, like, just fucking deal with me. Like, leave him alone.

It's just you and me. Beefy's like, I just want the numbers on the backs of your fucking heads give me the numbers and he has his knife out he's like threatening her and amanda goes if you kill me how are you gonna get your number and he looks around there's no mirrors in the bathroom anymore. And we realize there's never been a mirror anywhere in this whole house this whole fucking time. Precisely for this reason. And Beefy is psychotic at this point. He looks around.

He thinks. And he decides to cut the skin off of the back of his own neck. to cut the skin off of the back of his own neck. And he takes the knife to it and starts just sawing at it. And he's screaming. Blood is fucking water falling

out of the back of his neck. Why does he need to kill her? Like, what? I don't know why. He could just be like, hey, you and me, we can get out of here. I know every number you and me can get out he's just he's lost He's just lost it yeah He wasn't very nice to begin with yeah so he

Screaming really Dramatic again these like crazy speed Rampy psycho shots As he's sawing This skin off he like Then like gets it just enough where he like Does the shit where he like pulls it the rest of the way holds it out a perfectly cut piece of skin and he tucks it in his pocket

so funny and amanda looks at him kind of like he starts walking towards amanda with that knife out he's just gonna fucking kill her get the number all of a sudden daniel springs up yeah baby with the old original saw in his hand and slashes beefy's fucking neck with it oh my god ew old nasty saw now big fake out and also a really fun moment because daniel did what fucking Jigsaw did in the first one. He played dead in that room to like lull them into a sense of security. A great callback.

Beefy falls to the ground, spurting blood. Daniel's like, oh my god, I just fucking killed a guy. Amanda's freaking out. They're all in a really bad shape. Now Detective Matthews is like running through these like basement floors And he sees

The sliding door ahead Runs towards it we cut away To the SWAT team they're still Rooming around the upper part of the house Still not on video Then they find another room Step in And inside there's something covered by luxurious red velvet oh no burlap here

no and they pull it aside and it's a bunch of monitors and a bunch of vcrs and we realize this isn't a live feed this This is a tape playback. No! Oh my God. We are operating on two different timelines. Everything that we've been watching in the house already happened. No! Long ago. And it's too late.

They've been had. The SWAT leader literally pauses the video feed. And everybody was like, oh, fuck. This has been the game all along. But Matthews doesn't know. Matthews doesn't know. Oh, my God. He enters the stinky, nasty room.

Oh, no. It is black in there. And we realize it's been dark in Detective Matthews' shots in the house because it is much, much later. That's why he, like, at no point in this movie did anybody else need a flashlight to look around. Detective Matthews needed one because it's a different time. Because it's nighttime. He walks in. Oh, God. He gags because it smells so bad. He finds

Beefy's body. The toxins have been working their magic on him. He's like pretty much decayed. He finds Adam and Lawrence. They're obviously mummified he looks around with his flashlight looking for daniel calling for daniel he gets to that little bathtub that adam woke up in and saw one oh god oh god and he sees a pale hand oh god on the rim of the bathtub. Oh no. He walks up to it.

Oh no. There's a person in there. Oh God. He turns it over. Oh no. Pig face, wig face. I lied to you.

It is pig face, wig face. Pig face, wig face, leaps up, does the pig face, wig face like, and stabs him in the thigh with a fucking syringe,

injects him with a sedative and he passes out no i didn't see this coming i'm shocked i'm thrilled pig face motherfucking wig face yeah baby you got me i tried to be clever about it but i did just have to straight up lie to you and say no. I forgive you. So Matthews passes out. He goes unconscious. We cut back to the factory. The timer that's been running to the countdown to the end of that two hours reaches its end. All of the SWAT team is like, oh, shit. Three, two, one.

Are we going to blow up? What's going to happen? Are we all gonna die nothing happens they just hear the hinges of a door open they walk into the you know room with all this like boxes and crates and mannequins and there's a safe and the door swings open and there's Daniel. Scared but alive, breathing in an oxygen tank inside the safe. If you recall, Jigsaw told Detective Matthews at the very beginning, the only rule is you have to sit and listen to me. And if you do that, you'll find Daniel alive and in a safe, secure place. So if he had just

not beat the shit out of him and just stayed in that room, that was when they were in. Yep. He was there the whole time. The whole time. Because all of this already happened. And he was there. And if Matthews had just not beat the shit out of him like cavalier if he had just talked if he had just listened to the rules

daniel was right there the whole time my jaw's on the floor i'm shocked he's safe he's obviously like traumatized but he's fine yeah he's very traumatized so we cut back into the Yeah, he's very traumatized. So we cut back into the room that Saw I takes place in. Oh my God. Detective Matthews wakes up. He's chained to a pipe. Oh no.

His gun is out of his reach. Oh no. And there's a tape player next to him. He picks it up. He plays it. And it's not Jigsaw's voice that plays. It's a woman's voice. She starts to talk.

And she says, among other things, I was guilty of a lot of things, but not the drug charge you framed me for. It's Amanda's voice voice and if you'll recall as we know amanda never held anything against jigsaw in fact she thought he saved her life he showed her a new way oh my god we flashback the suicide flashback that she did was just the ploy. Jigsaw was in the room with her. She was just doing it to be plausible inside the room.

She talks about how he helped her. He became a father to her, a leader for her. Oh, Amanda. Oh, no. Now we cut to another timeline where Amanda brings Daniel to Jigsaw. She got him out of the house. That's why she protected him the whole time. He was the plan.

She wouldn't let anybody hurt him. She wouldn't let Beefy kill him because he was an essential part of the lesson that fucking Matthews needed to be taught. that fucking Matthews needed to be taught. And then we get a very mega spoon-fed flashback montage of like every single detail that adds up. And she's like giving this like long speech about like, and now you're helpless and now you're here. And like we cut to a shot where pig face wig face, shout out, takes the pig face off.

And it's Amanda in the bathtub as on the tape. She's like, I will carry on John's work when he's dead. I will follow it up. And you detective Matthews are my first test subject. And then he like Matthews is screaming like, fuck you, fuck you.

I'm going to fucking kill you. And Amanda walks into the room. Cleaned up. Looking great. She stands at the door and she goes, game over. Shuts the door in the dark. Detective Matthews is screaming, fuck you. I'm going to fucking kill you.

You fucking bitch. His like toxicity is like, you know, boiling out of him and he's been had. She walks away. Oh. And she says in the tape, she's like, tell me detective Matthews,

what is the cure for cancer? Which is the same question. Jigsaw asked him and she said, and she says the cure for cancer? Which is the same question Jigsaw asked him. And she says, the cure for cancer is the same cure as the cure for death. It's immortality. And when people remember you, you become immortal. You become bigger than your life. And you, you know, that's the cure for cancer. And John, that's Jigsaw's real name, John showed me the way. I'm going to carry it on after him. And both of us will live forever.

And he gets locked in. And we cut outside. Jigsaw in the car, his face bloody. He's weak. He's fucked up. He's really got his ass kicked and he's sitting in that car he starts to smile and we pull away and we cut to black and that's the end of the movie oh my god yeah i think that that ending is so fucking killer.

Yeah, it's really good. I'm shocked. Yeah. It like really works. It really works. That is an incredible twist. I did not know this movie had a twist. It really nails the spirit of the first one.

I think like that kind of twist, but you don't really see it coming. I was feeling so bad for Amanda that she had to go through all this again. She's just a psycho. She's just a psycho. She's just a psycho. And she like when it makes it like when she falls into that pit and she starts to scream as she's like sifting through these things. It's like you realize like it's not so much pain as it is like a religious fervor. It's like her like doing a the act of a saint like how um like yeah how people like whip themselves yeah for god yeah it's like yeah like spiritual ecstasy

on top of pain saint maude uh-huh and she's his apprentice so she'll carry it on and she's his apprentice and she'll carry it on and it's like of course she saw one she was like obsessed with him well and you know we have fucking eight more movies for her to see what that's gonna be yeah i i don't think i've even seen three i'm not sure where it goes but i'm definitely curious i would definitely like to watch three because i think two works really well yeah that's fair i am wow wow saw two fuck saw two is really good i remember feeling like when i watched that first time many years ago being like that was really good and it's very interesting yeah it's i would say this it's not that great as a standalone movie it's really good as a sequel to saw i hear you yeah i really enjoyed this movie i think it's really good joel i had a good time i gotta be honest this might be the longest episode

you ever recorded but we'll see longest ever no there's no way but it is i mean it's long i i yeah i didn't get sugar-coated joel this one was long but it wasn't the longest no it wasn't the longest i guess that's that and i hope that our listeners have a good as good of a time as as we did we had a good time if if you guys i just hope you all have can have so much fun i just have i really hope you guys can have so much fun. I just have. I really hope you guys can have so much fun. We had so much fun. Yeah. And we miss Sammy and Henley. Sammy and Henley. God, we love them. Sammy,

feels good in your skin. Don't do this. Don't do this. God, we just love them. I hope we made you proud. I hope we made them proud. I really do. That's all I want. I love them so much we made you proud i hope we made them proud i really do that's all i want i love them so much i do too i really do i just am so impressed by them both so much perfect they're both so cool and like sweet and the way they see the world helps me to see it better. Ah. And on that note, okay, how's Jigsaw

Talks? How does he talk? You wanna play a game? Is that it? You wanna play a game? It's more whispery. From all of us here. From all of us here at Too Scary Didn't Watch. Good. Good. Goodbye. Goodnight. Do you say goodnight? We say goodbye.

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trailer reactions, and more. And no matter what, we will see you right here next week for another episode. We love you so much. Bye. That was a HeadGum Podcast.