Too Scary; Didn't Watch - THE POUGHKEEPSIE TAPES with Jason Horton

Episode Date: October 20, 2021

Snuff films, double masks, and over 800 video tapes - we're recapping The Poughkeepsie Tapes! This week we are joined by Jason Horton (Ghost Town, Abandoned and Historic Los Angeles) to talk about a film that will join the ranks of Event Horizon, Funny Games and The Green Inferno as one of our most hated films!The Poughkeepsie Tapes is streaming on Shudder.Follow Jason on instagram and twitter.00:00 - Shoutouts03:06 - Episode starts20:21 - Trivia 30:24 - Recap starts Follow the show: @TSDWpodcast on Twitter, TikTok, and Instagram. Check out our Patreon for bonus episodes and additional content! Rate Too Scary; Didn’t Watch 5 Stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and leave a review for Emily, Henley, and Sammy. Advertise on Too Scary; Didn't Watch via Gumball.fmSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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As an Audible member, you choose one title a month to keep from their ever-growing catalog. Sign up for a free 30-day Audible trial and your first audio book is free. Visit audible.ca to sign up. Okay, listeners, we have a, I won't say fun episode. Sure. Some of it is not fun, but I'll say some of it is fun.

Some of it is fun and some of it is very not fun. So get ready for a roller coaster of an episode. You're going to feel all sorts of things. Oh, we're going to take you on a journey. But before we do that, we got to shout out some of our new patrons. We have a new vessel head joining us, and that is

Isaac Cole. Isaac, welcome aboard. Thank you so much for being here. Welcome aboard, Isaac, and welcome home, should I say, to the newest members of Tony Collette's inner circle. Tony fucking Collette's inner circle.

It is that it is home here. So welcome home to this great group of new patrons. Thank you. Lindsay Thomas, Ellen, Melissa Eisenman, Catherine Desai, Jade Foster, Liliana Topet, Sarah V, Heijin Gregory, Kate and Kevin McGonigal. Wow. How? Holy smokes. Welcome, welcome home to the circle. Lots of people coming home.

Lots of people coming home. You love to see people coming home, especially in this beginning of the holiday season. This is homes where you want to be right now. Cozy. It's where the heart is and it's where we all are. It's where the heart is. It's where Tony is. And we also have a couple people that have upgraded. They are Trice Sanders and Leslie jane mace thank you guys so

much thank you everybody we appreciate your support so goddamn much it really means so much to us and it does if you want to join our patreon you can go to patreon.com slash tsdw podcast we have an episode on squid game coming up which we just recorded. Holy shit. You're not going to want to miss it if you are too scared to watch it because it's... I don't have to tell you this. It's the most popular show that's ever happened on Netflix.

It is talked about. Yeah. Even if what you're too scared about is you're too scared to be sad, like me, and I just get to hear about it without sinking into the deep despair that is...

Squid Game. The state of Squid Game. You better freaking check that out. Better freaking check that out. Until then, you better check this episode out. You better check it out. You better stay on the line. If you thought about just listening to this part and then stopping the episode,

I respect your choice. Pretty weird, but I think you better stay on the line. I think you better stay on the line. I think you should stay on the line. Enjoy. This is Emily, Henley, and Sammy, and you're listening to Too Scary, Didn't Watch. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Too Scary, Didn't Watch, the horror movie recap podcast for those too scared to watch for themselves. I'm Emily and I'm too scared to watch scary movies. I'm Henley and I'm also too scared to watch scary movies.

I'm Sammy and I like watching scary movies, so I watch them so that you don't have to and I tell you all about them because I know you're curious we love her for it yay it's a gift it's a service it is a gift to all of us and we do appreciate it what's up with us someone recently asked on our Instagram

why we don't ask if something scary happened to us this week and I feel like the world is still scary that's the Instagram why we don't ask if something scary happened to us this week. And I feel like the world is still scary. That's the reason why we stopped doing it. We're like, oh, the world is like sad and scary. And it feels weird to be like, yeah, something scary happened this week. Everything. So that's just why.

But also what I was going to say is something scary did happen to me this week. OK, let's hear. And scary in like a mortality type of way oh which is that and you guys already know this actually because i texted you but um uh a good friend of mine installed a stripper pole in her house recently yeah which totally rules and i i think i will get one um um, at some point. Uh, it's, and I, but I was so excited. It's a great workout and it's like fun and cool.

Anyway, I was so excited to go over and try her pole. Cause I was like, I mean, I got to see what the deal is. She's been posting all these videos. She's loving it. So I went over and I tried it and it is really fun.

It's, it's great. Um, and I did it for two minutes trying things. First of all, I'm not nearly as strong as I thought I was. So that is scary. Number two, I pulled a muscle. Yeah, of course you did.

I like, of course I did. And I was like, oh my God. I like, I just, I, I. New muscles that you're not used to using. Stripper pulls are extremely difficult. So difficult. You have to have insane core. Like, you have to be so strong.

Yeah, and I thought that I did. And I don't. Yeah, no, I didn't. I pulled. It's like on my oblique. It hurts so bad, you guys. And I so quickly was like, you can't just like throw your body around anymore. No.

In life. You got to be prepared to, you got to prepare to exercise. Oh my God. No, Joel's like, did you stretch? I was like, no, I didn't stretch. What are you talking about? No. It really hurts you guys.

And I don't, I don't love facing that reality but I will heal and be prepared that I will also get a pole someday and you guys can try it but you should stretch first just so you know learn from me yeah we're learning our lesson early this is great I'm sorry for your shortness

but we will learn from this and thank you for offering me muscle relaxers if I need them. Of course. Yes. I might. I've got them for my TMJ. Do they work? Do muscle relaxers actually do anything? They do. They do. They just make you real groggy.

So I don't take them very often. Because they relax all your muscles, right? That's the only way they would work. They don't know which ones to relax, right? I think. I mean, I don't totally know how they work. But yeah, when I first was prescribed them, the doctor said to take them three times a day, which is like absolutely insane. And I was taking them at work and I started auditory hallucinating and kept thinking someone was coming up behind me and would jerk around. Who's who's there?

Nobody there. It's like, I can't fucking take these three times a day. This is crazy. You know what? That same thing happened to me. Tim and I, one time we took Ambien and we thought someone was in the room with us. We had like a shared experience of thinking someone was in the room. Oh, no.

Are these accidental ghost encounters? And I'm just dismissing them yeah if both of you together saw the same person i'd be like maybe there was a person in your room no we didn't see the same person we just were both in bed and we felt like there was someone else there we didn't see anything it was more of a feeling anyway i don't know it was a ghost it was a ghost probably a ghost what's up with you guys um i don't really have much of anything to talk about this week except my hair is falling out so intensely after you give birth your hair falls out and i've entered the hair falling out stage and it is out of control and there's a thing that that is a problem actually, where your hair can get wrapped around your baby's limbs.

What? Like, like snakes, like as if they like travel. And it's, it's, it's called a hair tourniquet and it can actually like really be really painful for them. That's what their blood flow.

It can be really painful. Like after it, after it falls out of your head, it gets around the baby. Yeah. It gets like wrapped around their finger or something and it can be really painful for them. So I'm on constant. I'm so vigilant. I'm on constant alert, like stressed because my hair is fucking everywhere and it's falling

out insane amounts um and i think i'm just gonna cut it all off and maybe this is why people get mom haircuts is this why people get mom haircuts is because of this because of hair tourniquets and also if anyone has a hair if anyone has any like tips about what to do like i'm gonna be bald in like 10 days at this rate so i'm stressed having kids is crazy man there's so many things that they don't tell you it's so motherhood is fucking hair tourniquets never heard that before in my goddamn life i'm sorry that i feel like i only talk about mom things now but it's the only thing i have to talk about. Henley, if I, and if

any one of the things that you've experienced the last, let's say, nine months plus three months, a year, if any of the things that you've experienced in the last year happened to me, it would be all, any one of those would be the only thing I'd talk about. If my hair was falling out and making tourniquets

around a baby's fingers, I would be like screaming it to everyone. Are you kidding me? Of course you can talk about it. That's fucking crazy. Okay. So part of the reason why it makes me so nervous too, is because when I was pregnant, I was in the pharmacy and this man rushed into the pharmacy and he was so stressed and like cut, like asked if he could cut the line because he needed to buy nail clippers because he said that a hair had wrapped around his baby's finger and he needed to cut it off and he was having like a panic attack about it and at the time i was like why was he buying nail clippers because i guess to cut the hair like little clippers to like cut the hair oh like the little tiny scissors yeah and so at the time i was like, that guy's just like not sleeping well.

Like, there's no way that's actually like a thing, you know, like he's like having a moment, like Sherry cut the line. Like, it can't be that serious. Now that it's happening to me, I get it. It's stressful. It's serious. Yeah. Anyway, that's the only that's the only thing I have to talk about are hair tourniquets.

That's it. Yeah, that's pretty crazy thing I have to talk about are hair tourniquets. Yeah, that's pretty crazy. That's pretty crazy. Yeah. Sammy, what about you? Top that, Sammy. Top that. I had something kind of scary happen to me this week, too.

In acupuncture, I had a needle hit a blood vessel, and now I have a big bruise on my wrist. Holy shit. And I just had never had that happen before. It didn't hurt. And I honestly felt really good after the acupuncture still. Like it was still a very nice, relaxing session. I love my acupuncturist. She's the best.

But yeah, I was just like, oh. Did you know it was happening when it happened? Like, could you feel it hit something? It felt a little itchy, but no, it didn't hurt. Itchy because maybe it doesn't like cause more pressure under your skin. Maybe. Yeah. Like I could feel that it was a little different than the other ones, but I was like, I mean,

it always feels a little bit like a needle in your skin. So it's like, I'm like, okay, yeah, I mean, there's a needle in there. So I'm going to feel it a little bit. Wow. But it's fine. And it's going to heal right up. And everything's going to be fine. But it was a little scary.

But no, it was great. And then the other thing I wanted to say is that, I mean, by the time this comes out, it'll already have happened. But Succession Season 3 starts tonight. and i just can't fucking wait oh my god yeah i forgot that's that's wait that's tonight holy shit that's tonight tonight i mean if you're listening to the podcast it was three days ago but for us it's tonight um yeah so i'm thrilled about that. And the other scary thing that happened to me this week was that I watched a scary movie. And it was the Poughkeepsie Tapes, which came out in, well, 2007 and 2014. We'll talk about that in a second. It was directed by John Eric

Dowdle, written by John Eric Dowdle and Drew Dowdle, starred Lee Chbosky, Ben Messmer, Lou George, Samantha Robson, and Ivar Broeger. It is available on our very favorite Shudder.com. And we have a guest here to

talk about it with us. He is an author and the co-host of the podcast Ghost Town. Jason Horton. Thank you for being here, Jason. Hello. I have no pill stories to offer or anything like that. My life is perfect. Everything's in balance.

I'm just getting younger and wealthier as we're sitting here speaking. So nothing to contribute on that end. Yeah, I guess I'm blessed, I suppose. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being here. I'm inspired by this Benjamin Button. Yeah, younger and wealthier. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Jason, tell us a little bit about your kind of relationship with horror and spooky things in general. How did you get interested in scary?

I've always been terrified. I mean, people that are listening that are scared of horror movies, I always have, but I always watch them and then I regret it. So, I mean, I've always been kind of drawn by them for the same reason a lot of people are. And I kind of force myself to watch them. Sometimes it'll just be one and done. I'm like, that's it. Never going back. I'm good. And then sometimes I'll revisit it.

And I also I love filming locations in general. So like recently I went and checked out. I went to the house, you know, we're in the poster for the movie Insidious. And, you know, I always go back and some Nightmare on Elm Street spots that I didn't hit. And Halloween, obviously.

And I put those on my Instagram. But so I love that aspect of just, especially living in Los Angeles, there's just a lot of really great, uh, great spots, great spots here. Um, so yeah. And then I just, you know, it's, it's, I love weird, dark history I'd say. And then under that would be, you know, the haunted and paranormal and the true crime and all that.

And, you know, what I talk about in the podcast and, um, just general interest in historic locations, abandoned places. So like that kind of dark esoteric stuff would be like the, the top of the pyramid for the pyramid scheme. That is whatever it is we're doing here. Kind of where it's where it is. That's where my, that's where my downline is. So, yeah. Did you,

did you watch any scary movies when you were a kid that just haunt you to this day oh i mean there'd be weird ones from the 70s like tourist trap like these weird uh black christmas all those like oh black christmas we did that so scary yeah any of that like stuff that's like whatever like italian or it's just it's the 1970s it's inherently terrifying it's like you know isian or it's just it's the 1970s it's inherently terrifying it's like you know is there is it's anything safe they make these you know everything's very dangerous and dark and um you know they're just very avant-garde so things like that were scary i mean it when it came out forget it forget it i was like this is absolutely terrifying uh

you know like and and then yeah like general stuff but i've always like stuff like halloween i've always kind of like because i kind of saw that as more of i don't know there was something about it where that was somebody was coming to is that it's a horror movie yes but it's also just like a i don't like a thriller somebody's coming to get you these things that are kind of strange and there's dreams and there's clowns, forget it. Like any of that kind of stuff. Serial killer.

Visually. Yeah. Like very, like, I don't know, like, yeah. Like terrifying clowns,

things like shape shifting and stuff like that, that you feel like you're not like kind of in control of. I've always been extremely still to this day are still very terrifying, but I will go. And I will, I will watch, we'll watch them. I'm kind of drawn to it and stuff. always been extremely uh still to this day are still uh very terrifying but i will go and i will um i will watch them i'm kind of drawn to it and stuff so uh yeah yeah here i am and here we are so you don't like like necessarily being scared i'm wondering if you like go and do things in person and stuff if you like like haunted houses or that kind of thing do you know no way okay okay no freaking way no way a lot of it is

also it's like going and doing it and then you know i don't know i just feel like that's also for you know for ghost town i talk about like the bad things that have happened in haunted houses especially like i grew up in like the new york and new jersey so like there's haunted houses that are like great adventure. Things that have had where people like die because it's just, it's asbestos and there's just, there's just like holes everywhere. Like things are not, like things are not safe. So yeah, I'm just not, nah,

I don't like any of that. Yeah. Yeah. Fair. But I will go, I will go like, you know, like if there was an abandoned thing, I'll go check, like, that out. Things that are actually probably dangerous. But as far as things that, like, you know their job is just to, like, scream at you.

I just don't want to be screamed at. I hate that, too. I don't want to pay to be screamed at. Yeah, no. Yeah, there's... Plus... There's often usually clowns at those things too you know clowns i feel like have are featured heavily in those haunted house experiences so that would not and you know one of them in any given time one of them is like

they're like i mean this would be a good time to start being a murderer like i've been planning on doing because i'm already like not like you don't know who you know what I mean like it's like that's like that's out there I know that it is and then if that's in your head you're not going to want to pay for that experience either you're not going to want to pay to get murdered no I'm also very very cheap that's how I stay so wealthy

you know I don't want to yeah no thanks wait Sammy do you like haunted houses? No, I was going to say, I agree. I like strangely love horror movies, but I, I can't handle it when someone is jumping out at me in real life. No, I do not like it.

Because also I feel like the lines are very blurry about whether they can touch you or not. Cause I feel like they're not supposed to touch you, but then they always end up touching. They always do. Yeah. I feel like they're not supposed to touch you, but then they always end up touching. They always do. Yeah. I feel like always end up. I mean, I've only been like twice cause I fucking hate it,

but I feel like I've been to a lot of, I feel like I've been a lot of haunted houses and they always like, they do. They always like target the person who seems like this most scared. And it's always me. Yeah. It'd probably be you guys if we went together.

Yeah. So I can't do that. No, Henley, you you would maybe seem brave i feel like you'd put on a brave face i would put on a brave face because all my yeah my capricorn like practical like the part of me that would get killed if i was ever actually in a dangerous situation that would turn on and i'd be like i don't believe you there There are some though, where like, I feel like there are certain haunted house experiences where the deal is like, they can touch you and they can like take you away. Yeah. I've been to, I've been to those. Henley, what? I don't know why. I don't know why. I feel like it's a thing that we would do.

That's a real murderers haven. Cause they can't, they can take you away and then your friends are like,, oh, they're just that's part of the thing. And it's like then you could get murdered. You could be murdered. Even just like as a woman in the world. I'm like, don't take me away. Like what? Don't you can't ever take me somewhere away from the people I know in the dark.

Yeah. I'm not going to pay you to do this. No, I'm not fucking paying anybody for that. No, thank you. All right. Well, let's talk a bit about the poughkeepsie tapes we got some some trivia let me give you a little stats it has 67 on rotten tomato uh six on imdb and it's the same filmmakers as um as above so As Above, So Below and Quarantine, which was the American remake of Wreck. But so, OK, and about the like release drama about this movie. So it, I guess, was finished and ready to go in 2007.

They premiered at Tribeca and got picked up by MGM. And they were getting ready to release it in 2008, like a wide theater release. And it had trailers attached to other movies. So people were like, oh, this movie is coming out. And then they pulled it at the last minute, I guess, and kept it like on the shelf until 2014. And they did like a very brief VOD release. And then they pulled it from that again. And then it was only in 2017, like fully released on like DVD and still not in theater. It never went to theaters.

But did they give a reason? Yeah. Wait, why? No, they never gave a reason but people think it's because it's so gruesome oh shit i've never heard of this movie maybe that's why because it like didn't have a whole big thing but i my immediate thought is oh my god imagine being an actor in that movie what if this was like your first big thing and you're like my movie's coming out and then they just don't do it that would be stressful

and for the filmmakers too of just like working on it and then being like oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck yeah that sucks you kind of laughed when you said it's so gruesome is it not actually that gruesome or is it like what's the what do you think is that a legit reason i think it's a legit reason? I think it's a legit reason. It's pretty gross. It doesn't show tons, but it describes in detail a lot of very gross things. Yes. And Jason, you picked this movie. Yes.

Do you have any sort of particular attachment to this movie? Yes. Yeah. I'm not picking this because I was like, oh, this movie is really good and really freaky. I'm picking it because I used to live in Poughkeepsie. So that is my connection to it.

And again, I'm very connected to locations and stuff. So it's yeah, I lived I grew up in before I moved to California in the Hudson Valley. And it's interesting when I tell people like, oh, what part of upstate? It's like an hour from New York City. I don't know. It depends on where you are. But I went to high school in Newburgh. And no one knows what Newburgh is. When I say Poughkeepsie, everyone knows. Oh, yeah, I know Poughkeepsie. I was like, how does so many people know? And I think Poughkeepsie has been

used, I think, as Kackensack, which I was born in New Jersey. I feel like those are like towns that people mention as a reference. And so, uh, I think that, I think all of that kind of adds to this movie because it's like a pretty like interesting name of a, of a town. And, um, and so I lived in Poughkeepsie, uh, and worked in Poughkeepsie for a time. And there's also, uh, a, which I thought that, and I think this adds to it but there is a serial killer from the kipsy um

and i think that i believe that it wasn't an inspiration you know so it's not inspiration has nothing to do with it but i feel like those things coinciding at the same time uh kind of added to it i believe anyway because people don't really reference the movie especially online a lot is without referencing um the serial killer uh which was kind of around where i was around so it's like an interesting thing to think like in that course of that time that i would have maybe been at the supermarket or the mall where i used to work at that mall in Poughkeepsie. I was just like, I wonder if that dude just kind of walked by and he's like, just buying some zip ties.

Yeah. So there's, so, you know, again, like, you know, I, the podcast I do, you know, and like a lot of people do, so it's a true crime aspect. There is a, you know, a kind of lost film aspect. so anything kind of yeah like i think a lot of things happen here um that go into the lore of the poughkeepsie tapes plus the name isn't that like oh the poughkeepsie tapes is this like some kind of weird local political thing where the comptroller stole money um but so it's kind of like a benign title and i think that kind of adds to um adds to the whole thing so i mean i don't think it's kind of like a benign title. And I think that kind of adds to, um, adds to the whole thing.

So, I mean, I don't think it's necessarily a good movie, but I think it's an interesting movie and it's interesting to me because I used to live in Poughkeepsie and how many horror movies have the town you used to live in? Probably not that many, right? I mean, I don't, in the world. So it's kind of a, kind of a rare thing. So I kind of latched on to it. Yeah. Is the movie about the serial killer that was the real serial killer? No, not connected. No. Interesting.

They're not connected, but it's like, I don't know. A lot of towns don't have an actual documented serial killer, you know, in a lot of by definition and especially, you know, in a town in upstate New York. So I feel like, and that the serial killings happened between, I want to say 90s, 96 to 98. And the movie came out in 2007. I mean, I don't know.

It was news. I vaguely remember reading in the newspaper because, you know, really no internet back then. So I feel like there has to be some kind of connection to it. I don't know why the filmmakers aren't from Poughkeepsie.

I feel like I looked into that. Some of it is filmed in Poughkeepsie, but I think those are just some aerials that I noticed in the opening, if I had to guess. I think the filmmakers are from Minnesota. So there's Minnesota and there's Loseles because maybe that's where they did some shot you know there's a lot of post-production and stuff so i feel like they picked that place because that i mean otherwise it was just very random what's their connection to poughkeepsie

i haven't found any right my take right yeah that makes. Isn't Vassar also in Poughkeepsie? It isn't. Vassar is in Poughkeepsie and where the serial killer lived was very close to Vassar. Did they catch the serial killer? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Crazy. That's good. That's good news. That's good news. Finally, some good news. finally some good um uh well shall we watch the trailer for this and and get into it well let's do it yeah i'm seeing i'm seeing this trailer sadistic violence and torture including terror and graphic descriptions fantastic and smoking and smoking oh my god and smoking well that no no, thank you.

That should have been number one. There's blood out there. Please do something. Do something. Do something. We have to wait 24 hours. No, there is blood. There is blood out there.

Send the police now. Today, police made a shocking discovery in Poughkeepsie. A third body was found here today. A Poughkeepsie couple vanished over the weekend, seemingly without a trace. Do you mind if I film this? I'm making a little movie about my trip. Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Wake up. wake up

a poughkeepsie tears oh my god hen this is like your worst nightmare. You hate watching people be scared. And it seems like that's all you're going to watch in this. I was just thinking that I was like, no, I don't want to be scared in my own home. No, thank you. I like that. It says coming soon. They were wrong. Pretty big. wrong. Pretty vague. Also, yeah, wow. I'm very curious because are we going to like never see this killer because he or she? Yeah, that's kind of an interesting

device. Shooting it? Maybe the killer is all of us. Ooh. Ooh. Think about it. Am I the killer? I guess I never thought about that oh wow this looks upsetting it's upsetting upsetting is like the perfect word for it i'd say i don't like when

that's the correct word oh my god well should we just get into it should we just fucking let's get into it let's rip this fucking band-aid off In the past few years, I have hit a point where I only want to be wearing clothes that are comfortable. It happened. It happened to me. But you know what? I still also want to look cute. And these are two desires that are often extremely opposing. And I don't want to have to sacrifice.

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of the 2022 Good Housekeeping Parenting Award, Hello Bello will keep you well-stocked on dipes and wipes. Go to hellobello.com slash too scary to get 30% off your first customized bundle and a full-size freebie product of your choice. That's HelloBello.com slash TooScary to start bundling with 30% off your first order. Don't forget, that's HelloBello.com slash TooScary. I do want to say, it does feel, so this movie was made in 2007. Feels like the wrong, and maybe this will be part of it. But to me, it feels like the wrong choice to make this movie

take place in September 2001. I know. They talk about that. They talk about that. Okay, because it felt like they weren't that's how people, if you listened, the trailer starts with in September of 2001. I was like, oh shit. And then they don't address

9-11 at all in the trailer. So I was like, huh? They do in the movie. They do in the movie. Okay, that is a, that's better. Cause otherwise, huge mistake. Okay. I would say like the movie is,

there's like two things happening at once. You have the found footage portion, right? Which is, i guess at the time is a pretty good like you know paranormal activity is around i'm trying to think of when the first paranormal activity came out but it was kind of coming out around there blair which was obviously found footage that's inherently terrifying especially you know if you're watching into pretend we're watching in 2007 we we haven't really been inundated with found footage type stuff and within TV shows,

which has been a very popular device in order to be terrifying because it's inherently grainy and scary and, and not clear. So when it's not clear, your imagination might be doing 80% of the work. So that part is, you know, is terrifying. And like you said, it's, it's, they don't, they indicate a lot and that's worse in fact i think showing it and not indicating it because when you're indicating it you're again your your worst thoughts are coming through and when they're showing it's like well you're showing us what it is yeah that that seems i was like but i in my mind it could have been 50 percent worse

um and then you have this other part of the movie, which is the kind of the news and the traveling. And I can't decide if that's meant to be satire. It's intentionally kind of meant to look like that, or that's just how they filmed it to the best of their ability, because

it almost seems like not a joke, but it seems like almost a parody of people talking about crime. I don't know if it's the way they shot it or that was their intention. So there's like there's two things happening at the same time. And I don't know what their intention is, but it kind of takes you in it. And then out of it, when you hear the people, you know, you hear like the cops and the FBI and like the, you know, the forensic specialist. It's just not very it looks like a sketch. Yeah. In a way.

I would say they're like bad actors, too. And that's part of it. That's on. I feel like this could be either on purpose or just blurring that line. So in that in itself, but then it juxtaposes with pretty scary you know visuals that kind of are the you know what i mean like i feel like that could pretty much be the movie you can cut a lot of that other stuff because it's not adding anything to it um anything it's taking away from it or they're like hey this is pretty corny here's something uh very scary uh to you know kind of take you along that thing.

But also something that I saw is that the person who is, you know, the POV of the killer is holding the camera and they purposely had somebody that was not good at videography. So it wouldn't look very perfect. You know, they're like, Oh, let me make sure I get, hold on. I've got to get over the shoulder. You know, all those, all those things. They had somebody who isn't good at it, which makes it almost like again jarring and real and I thought that was a really cool device just I don't want to make like I'm just ragging on this movie but um I it's something I was like oh yeah because if you have like an actual camera person they might make it look too clean and too safe you want it to almost be where you're kind of um

a little out of sorts when you're watching it. So I thought that was a pretty cool device. Yeah. Found footage is tricky. I mean, it's easy to make it less scary. We recently did Paranormal Activity 3 and that was one of my complaints about it was like, it looks too good. Like the cameras are too nice and it makes it less scary like i want it to look like shit that makes it feel way more real which you probably have covered i mean i'm sure we haven't done that one um those i feel like they do a pretty but that's a totally different thing but they do a really good job but that's the whole thing are these it's all found for the show and they're very different but yeah i think that is i also think it's easy to do found footage stuff especially if it's like really

like crappy looking um so you don't really know what you're seeing uh and so i think that's a really still i mean it's still a really really great device and they do really well here and especially you're watching in 2007 you're not already burnt out from that like seeing it in movies and tv shows like 10 million times just like a twist ending now you know you see a twist ending now it's like okay but you know about when Sixth Sense came out you're like whoa okay

this is new. Blue people's fucking minds blue minds and you know I just watched old and like Channel On and Mind Not Blown so um um yeah the movie basically one question i have about the movie oh sorry is that even you know found footage films um usually still follow like the same set of characters or it's you know the

same group and there usually is still like a protagonist and all that but it's sounding to me like maybe this movie doesn't even have that. Like it's literally just the news anchors and then these tapes. There's that's happening. But then there's also these cutaway interviews from like experts. And you might have like a, you know, a police person in the car, like looking in the back, kind of like, hey, we're driving to the blah, blah, blah. And it's like, OK, but then you just cut to like a stat, like thing where it's like i'm an hi i'm an expert expert in this here's me

kind of explaining science science whatever and it just seems like again like a like a almost like a sketch or something like that doesn't it doesn't add anything to it and it doesn't really give you i for me doesn't really give you much information to doesn't make it more or less scary once you get to like the good stuff so yeah basically starts with them finding like over 800 tapes filmed from the killer's point of view uh they're like snuff snuff films basically and one of the things that they said early on in one of those like expert interviews is that what people don't realize is that any given time there are somewhere between 25 and 50 active serial killers in the u.s and i if you believe if you can believe it i fact checked it and that is seems to

be the case which is fucking crazy yeah it's too many that's too many too many for my liking i wonder whether i wonder if they're like mostly in certain places they must be i wonder if there's like a map yeah if they're in poughkeepsie if there's one one could be anywhere like the kendall francois's the serial killer and a very kind of cool name. I know. Hi, I'm Kendall Francois and I murder people. Yeah, it's a cool name. I'm listening, you know. Just I mean, I don't know, to give a tiny background, he he murdered eight prostitutes, I guess, you know, people, you know, I think that was the kind of, I guess, the demographic and they were found like in his house.

So I think his attic. So there is still this thing of finding things in someone's house that I think kind of correlates this movie enough to, it gives it, you know, gives it wings, it gives it wings a little bit. And there's no, there's no tapes or anything like that, but there kind of is something to that plus the idea of like the blank tapes is very you know whether in anything in history or whatever like these like idea of these recordings and stuff like that whether it's uh demonic you know exorcisms or something like that it's always kind of scary, the blank, blank, blank

tapes. And when they're VHS tapes, like the ring or something like that, it's already a very scary device. I agree. 800 of them? Get out of here. Does that mean there are 800 murders? No, it just

he films like nonstop. He just films a lot. Some of it is really and Grace, I think. Scary how-to with John Wilson. Exactly. That's exactly right. So we start with... One of the scenes that we're seeing

that we go back to a lot is a classroom where someone is teaching about this serial killer. Um, and, uh, it starts with his first crime, which is him like kidnapping,

raping and murdering an eight year old girl. What? And they just like, say it. You don't like see much. I mean, you see like him meeting the girl and like the, like, oh, like you don't have to be scared of me. Like that kind of thing.

It's like horrible. And then the teacher of this classroom is like, that's nothing. He's just getting started. And like, that's nothing. Like, how much worse can it get? I just like made me laugh. Like, oh, that's nothing. I don't think that's nothing.

Like, if it gets worse, but that's not nothing. In any context, that's the wrong thing to say. I don't care where you're going from there. That's incorrect. And then it like tracks a few of. It goes like chronologically, I guess, through the tapes is what we're meant to believe. And it shows him getting better at things and doing more premeditated stuff. It seems like the little girl was kind of a spur of the moment thing and him getting away with it motivated him to get bolder.

And it shows we saw a little bit in the trailer of him like getting in the car with a couple and asking like oh can i film you guys film this like i'm making a movie and is he like hitchhiking and they pick him i think so something like yeah i think they're supposed to be dropping him off at the gas station but in the like expert later, we find out like that gas station's abandoned. He probably knew that he probably knew this road is really empty. And so he's like planning things in a way that now he's like super efficient and premeditated and whatnot. And that young couple, very bad thing happens to them.

Okay. Okay. Let's hear it. He, well, so bad thing happens to them. OK, OK, let's hear it. He well, so he killed he kills the guy. And then we don't really see what's what happens. And again, we don't like see a ton of the of the like gnarlier stuff. But it's all, you're seeing it in your head. Like we said, you're drawing a picture for yourself and that is worse. Definitely.

So what happens is he cuts off the man's head and sews it into her stomach. And she somehow like survives that, but then they find the body. Into her, like inside her, open the stomach, put the head in. Yes. Which I don't know. I'm not sure of the medical science behind this. And also how someone would survive any of that. Yeah.

And also a head is so big. It's big. Too big to fit in a woman's stomach with her still alive for sure um but then they like find they uh they find the bodies i guess much later so the bodies are i don't know they're not mummified and stopped that much later, but they just look like, you know, like corpses, old corpses. But we're seeing what happened through the POV of the, of the tapes. And then I think someone says something to a police officer and is like, were you like impressed by his creativity? I don't know.

They ask a question of something and they and this woman this police officer replies no after what he did to cheryl dempsey like i couldn't have nothing but loathing for this man i'm like wait after not these things that we've already seen this is nothing wait until you see oh okay ch And Cheryl Dempsey's the main, one of the main people in it, right? From what I remember? I think the Cheryl Dempsey character is, like, one of the main victim. Yeah.

So, it's all, it's very bad. She, she, he goes into her house, and she's in the shower, and it's all very creepy him like going to like setting up a camera in a place that can capture what's about to happen while he hides in the closet we hear that her boyfriend is also there and uh they like eventually fall asleep on the couch

and he like sneaks down kills the the boyfriend first, then runs after Cheryl. And one thing that I thought was pretty clever and creative was he he knocks, chases Cheryl, knocks her down. And then you see him attacking her, like through the shadow on the wall because the camera like falls. So you can only see the shadow of it. And so it's like still looks fucking terrifying. But I'm like, oh, what a like smart way to film that that because it would be just like any gore you know right that's cool yeah so i thought that was clever um and then one thing that they say a lot in the expert interviews or i guess after this point is how he changes his mo a lot that's like one of his ways that he avoids being captured and so this is when he starts posing as a police officer and murdering prostitutes and he gets

the name the water street butcher and we at this point have also seen that cheryl dempsey he did not kill her he just took her back to his house. She's in the basement of his house, like tied up and basically being horribly tortured. And he calls her slave and she has to call him master or. Yeah. It's gross. It's very bad.

And there's like a scene in which. And there's like a scene in which Girl Scouts come to his door trying to sell Girl Scout cookies. And he's like, well, why don't you come inside? And they're like, we're not supposed to come inside. And he says, well, I'm a police officer. So he's like clearly in his police officer uniform. And they're like, oh, yeah, that's true. Like, we can trust you. So they go inside.

Great. And they hear something even if you were not a good enough reason no no truly not not even close and this was like oh i hate this part they like no he the girls hear something and in the basement it's someone one of the sex workers that he's like taken and is is tied up in the basement, I guess. And they're like, they get scared. And he's like, OK, like you can let you leave. You see yourselves out and they leave. And you're kind of like, well, wait, what? Like he's a murderer. Why did he just let them go?

It's unexpected, I guess. And then he pulls off a tablecloth of the table that he was sitting at and um cheryl is like bound underneath the table with no like she's not gagged like her she's not even bound it's like a test of her he's basically like fucked her fucked with her head so much at this point that he's like testing to make sure she won't even try to get help and so he just like makes her sit there while there's other people in the room to like prove that she won't um leave him because she's so scared yeah oh that's awful yeah it, it's horrible. And.

So then I guess because he's posing as a cop, they start looking at cops and they find a cop that has been in the areas of all of the murders and. Arrest him. And it's kind of clear to us the way that they're talking about it, that this is like not the guy. But at the time they're referring to, they think it was they're like with all signs point to him. And it's clear that the real killer has done some work here to set this guy up. Like he's put fingerprints places of this guy. Fingerprints places of this guy. And this guy is the one being framed is.

Does like solo police work. And so he's just like basically in his police car alone all the time. So he has like no alibis for any of the time. And. He gets found guilty and gets executed. Oh, my God. And has like interviews with his son who is like, I had to like go through thinking my dad was a serial killer. And then like later him getting exonerated when the killings continued. Oh, my God.

And this is where they talk about September 11th. It's like September 11th it's like uh september 11th happened right afterwards and so this was like all completely overshadowed and so nobody like realized that that wasn't the killer like everyone thought oh like that serial killer got caught and yeah they say comments like you know any other week this would have been front page news but obviously this week it was not and people didn't hear about it so that's i guess why it's set in that time just as a way to because it's doing the thing like blair witch where it's trying to make you think that it's real and so it's like oh well if this was real how would i

not have heard of it so i think it's a way to like a device to make me like oh you didn't hear about it because it was you were hearing about other stuff september 11th happened and so it's i think that's why they did that you really can't make a movie like this using that now because you know it doesn't there's so many things a 24-hour news cycle is happening on so many different levels it would be somewhere so it does add to that thing where it's like oh yeah i mean you know back yeah in 2001 it's not like there's tons of archive stuff for you to to look up in 2007 or if you're watching it in 2014 or or whatever you know

if you think like oh this is real uh so It's kind of a smart thing to do, but you can't get away with a lot of those things as much now. And try to make that happen now. So I feel like this movie kind of came out at that peak time. Anything later and you start to lose

some of that. So it's like that kind of weird window where probably it not being released in full kind of probably took away from a lot of it although a lost film or like why was this shelved why can't we watch this also kind of exactly make it the scarcity probably helps in the long run because if there wasn't that scarcity might not be talking about it right now and the world would be a worse place we weren't talking about the movie i don't even want to think about that so then we see that he continues his kill a woman in a cop car like a woman

asking a cop thinking she's asking a police officer a question and him saying like oh like i can take you there we don't like totally i don't think we totally see what the conversation is but he's like oh yeah just get in the back i'll take you right i'll take you right there and so this like woman just gets into the fucking back of a cop car which you can't get out of because uh yeah and uh he takes her back to the basement and ties her up and there's like uh you're not gonna like this scene but i thought it was you love the other one the other one is fine i'll withhold judgment until i've heard the rest of it she's tied up and she's close to the camera and she has clear like packing tape over wrapped over

her mouth and so you can like see her mouth screaming which i don't know just even that kind of stuck out to me as like an interesting choice sorry to but it's like usually they're you don't see their mouth so um so so you see her facing camera and you see something like moving slowly in the background toward her and it's the guy but he is walking on his hands and feet like in a downward dog position and he has a mask on the back of his head and a mask on the on his face double masking okay okay and so he's like waddling towards her in this little like a frame position and it's really unsettling and creepy. But yeah, when he stood up and you saw that he also had a mask on his face, it did make me laugh. I was going to say, I kind of like how much we've talked about this before.

If you're going to do it, you might as well be enjoying it yourself. And it sounds like he really is. So he's just having a good time he's just having a laugh he's having a laugh having a laugh all right um but he he comes up next to her and puts his hand next to her throat and we see he has two needles attached to his fingers and he just slowly presses them into her throat and she starts like coughing up blood into like the clear tape and it's so gross but it was i thought it was a pretty like creative little kill sorry i know that's gross to say but i was like oh this like looks very scary they did a good job in this the clear packing tape is um yeah that's a very creepy touch that also means that actor probably had a cap a blood capsule in

her mouth and she probably was she was spitting like fake blood into her own mouth like that sucks yeah and then to have it not come out for 10 years to be like yeah yeah people aren't even gonna see it did i do it for nothing did i do that for nothing um and then one thing they say also that I thought was cool is in the interviews with the experts, like various detectives and psychologists, is that all he makes an effort to make all of his crime scenes like a little different. And so all of the profiles that people write up about him are contradicting. So it's like one profile or like this man is like high functioning his house will be very clean and another profile is like this person is probably a hermit in a very very messy house and so he's like throwing them off being able to even come up with an accurate profile so he's just very good at killing covering his tracks do you feel like is it just in movies or is it also in real life that

serial killers are like very smart is there something but you know how like you're more likely to have uh mental illness if you're very smart is there some link between being a sociopath and being very high iq i just like like, that's a lot to do effectively. Jason, do you talk about any serial killers on, on ghost town? I mean, I, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think there's a thing of, you know, usually comes with that is you have a feeling of like, you know, narcissism, superiority. Um, and with that comes a lot of, you know, nobody gets me and nobody's good enough to be around.

You know what I mean? I'm kind of an island on myself. So there is kind of a lot of that and maybe being possibly only child or whatever. So, yeah, I think there is there is a lot of that. It's also, you know, you think like people, you have to be you have to be stupid to get duped into a cult. You have to be stupid to be a serial killer, you know, and that's not, you know, neither of those things are necessarily true. And, you know, you kind of come to come to find that, but yeah, usually the person that, you know, narcissism and, and, you know,

power and stuff like that usually comes with some intelligence. Cause I don't know if you're narcissistic, if you're an, if you're an idiot, I'm using that word idiot like do you understand really understand the concept of of of you know narcissism or you know superiority and stuff like that i don't know um but i feel like that kind of goes hand in hand uh a little bit yeah yeah i think i think there's also something in our culture where we like accidentally lionize serial killers um like we are so entertained by them and we love to like watch content about them and it's always from the series like it's always so focused on on them the story is always revolving around them and like how incredible

they are and like look what like like just what i heard of like wow that's impressive that's like amazing to pull that off right it's like a normal human can't do that right right maybe that's what it is you want them to be different um the normal humans and part of that is being smarter i don't know but i think that uh probably i think a lot of people who are serial killers aren't necessarily like smart. I think it's just that a lot of serial killers like kill people who the police don't feel pressure to solve those cases. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's a lot of people who are sex workers. Yeah, I was going to say when sex workers go missing, they're probably not all that concerned until it becomes clear that it's like oh maybe this is a thing yeah oh that's much sadder yeah let's let's stay sad let's be sad and stay

sad let's live in that and they find his house and they kind of say he wanted us to find it and he's not there and there's not a single fingerprint in the house but they do find cheryl who is like locked in a box and he also makes her wear a mask um uh like through the whole duration of the film which spans theoretically like years and years like he just always makes her wear this mask or how long does it span no I guess it's not that long it just felt like because there's 800 tapes so I don't know. What kind of mask is it? It's like a full one that goes over your full head, like those like rubber masks of a like a woman with like makeup on kind of like a blow up doll looking mask. Oh, terrible.

Yeah. Yeah. It's not a good one. We don't like many masks and we can add this to the list of masks we don't like. Yeah, I don't like that one little bit. And so they find Cheryl. She is still alive. She yeah, they like describe her condition while she's in the taken taken to the hospital that she has been like severely, severely tortured, like sexually tortured, physically tortured, malnourishedished and they say things too horrible to say out loud so it's like stuff like that that's like your mind just fills

in it's like we didn't see any of that i mean we didn't see most of that stuff we saw some bad stuff with cheryl but yeah your mind just really really fills it in um and they say it took them like a while but they like eventually got an interview with cheryl um and the interview with her is so sad and she is just so completely traumatized yeah of. And doesn't know how to even talk really to the interviewer. They're asking her a question and she's clearly scared of saying the wrong thing because so much of what she has been through is she can only behave in a certain way that was allowed. And so she just keeps saying like, what do you want me to say? Tell me what to say. I don't know what you want me to say.

And she's like very frightened of saying the wrong thing. And then eventually she says he loved me and he'll come back for me. He he he like and it's like clear that he is completely. Yeah. Like fucked her up. yeah like fucked her up and she is I think also loves him

or is like brainwashed into loving him yeah Stockholm Syndrome yeah and that's the last thing she says in the interview and then a little chyron comes up that says two weeks later Cheryl committed suicide and in her suicide note

declared love for her und love undying love for her master and uh then this is like kind of the ending of the movie has a little post script that says or no i think it's still in the interviews where someone says there's 27 missing tapes and it's like what's on those tapes maybe they showed his face or maybe it was stuff that was just too horrible to even see all the other stuff was totally fine and oh and one thing that's fun that they say is uh like one of the psychologists says like well if you guys are doing this movie on him one thing that's for certain is he will be at screenings of this like he won't be able to stay away he's like a narcissist and will want to be the he'll see this movie as many times as possible and be in

as many theaters as he can which is like clearly a thing that they tried to like make theater goers feel scared of and then it just never went to theaters, which is a bummer for them. God, I wish I had more detail on why they didn't, if it's really just because it's too gruesome. Cause I mean, it is pretty fucked up. It also could just be things just money or, you know, a lot of times where it's just things didn't work out, distribution didn't happen and all that, you know,

that kind of stuff or just wasn't feasible, but, or it could, yeah, it could be, it could be those things, but I think other movies have come out like, what is it? The caterpillar, human centipede, human centipede. Yeah. And stuff like that. I've had a lot of things have kind of come out, but I think it's, you know, they made this movie for it to be like this found footage thing. it was not it was made to be a horror movie was made to be this thing where you didn't know if it was like is this real but you know and i think the fact that it did get re-released was probably in the big picture probably better for it than letting it in 2007 because i don't

know how robust the internet would have been getting this around because yeah, Blair, which was a pretty big thing, but I had a pretty decent, it made a lot of money and had a pretty decent theatrical release where this, I don't know, would this have had that or would it just been like one of those things where, you know, ended up on shutter anyway. So I feel like it may have been a beneficial to that because everyone loves a lost film. Yeah. And so when they made it i think they

made it to come out in 2007 and experience it in 2007 not in 2014 or 2021 because it kind of loses a little bit of that because you know it's like not because you can go on imdb and be like you're all alive yeah this is a movie you know yeah this is a real because we rush to like you know we watch something you know i do i mean i can't without looking at a filming location or what's where do i know this person from so by that alone you know it's not a documentary you know it's not real uh you know in 2007 there might be a little less that because iphones were barely out i know crazy don't even want to think about a world like that don't even bring that up the psychology behind experiencing this i try to think like

technologically like what's going on and what's like available i feel like the impact then is a lot different the impact now but but at least people love to find something that oh yeah this came out i really didn't have a wide release i want to watch it because i just love horror movies and and the fact that it wasn't available and now a wide release. I want to watch it because I just love horror movies and the fact that it wasn't available and now it is available makes me want to watch it. And it's called The Poughkeepsie Tapes, which is such a kind of

benign title in itself. Yeah, it's so not benign. The movie is the opposite of benign. No. And I don't know. I didn't pick this because I was like, this is a great movie i believe in the message uh it's not a thing it was you had a list and i because i couldn't get it and this is on your list yes this was a listener a listener request listener yes so whoever that

whoever the listener was yeah take it up you can go fuck yourself man man. But it jumped out at me because I wanted to do an episode of Ghost Town about Kendall Francois and did a little work on it. I'm on TikTok. I never actually made the thing I might now after talking about it. But it kind of jumped out. I was like, I sleep with Kipsey. And I like, I don't know, hometown stuff. Like a lot of people don't have like some people don't even have a hometown serial killer.

Think about it. Think about it. Think about that. That's really scary. That's really scary. You're lucky. You're really lucky. You're really lucky. Thank you.

I had really fucked up dreams after this movie, if you can believe it. I had crazy nightmares last night. I'm not surprised. I woke up at 4.30 in the morning, which is a pretty spooky time. And I hate to report that the motion detector light outside of my bedroom just kept turning on and off. No.

And I couldn't fall back asleep. So I was awake for like two hours, just being like, wonder who's walking around outside my bedroom. I would never get up and check that's the rule don't look don't look don't look and then they're not there they can't be there if you're not looking jesus christ um also my mom is in town right now and we almost watched this together but she went out to dinner instead i was like thank fucking god

would she have been yeah what would your mom have thought i think she would have absolutely hated every second of it i'm sure she would have like walked out she should yeah she doesn't she doesn't like horror movies in general and i think this is a pretty uh deep end deep end one as far as as yeah like gore and torture and that kind of thing i didn't actually feel like terribly scared uh it's just like upsetting and disturbing yeah and then i was i was scared at 4 30 in the morning when the motion detector lights were going on yeah um but jason thank you so much for coming on the pod yeah thank you so much it was a the pod. Yeah. Thank you so much. It was a delight aside from all of the subject matter.

Aside from everything we talked about. It was delightful. And Jason, can you tell us a bit about where people can find you, where our listeners can find you, can find Ghost Town? You can find Ghost Town wherever you get, listen to podcasts or ghost town pod.com. And I said, my Instagram,

if you like filming locations in general or for horror movies, my Instagram is the Jason Horton. Uh, I'll be on the new season. I believe of, um, the history channels, history is greatest mysteries next season.

I've got some episodes of that. Yes. I've been, again, I don't know what, if I'm in it, you know, but I've been doing some episodes of that talking about some, I can't know what, if I'm in it, you know, but I've been doing some episodes of that talking about some, I can't say what,

but talking about subject matter that your listeners might be interested in. So Lawrence Fishburne is the host and I'm like an expert. I don't know whatever I am. That's very cool. There's that. And then, yeah, I'm working on my second book, but my book is abandoned historic Los Angeles, neon and beyond. I'll just show it to you because there's a, I don't i'm working on my second book but my um book abandoned historic los angeles neon and beyond i'll just show it to you because there's a i don't know if you can see we'll we'll tag it we'll we'll put it in the episode description it's my uh yeah so that

that's out and if you like i mean you live in los angeles or not you like to see cool vintage signs abandoned and historic places um that's available uh and it was la magazine's top books of 2020 about los angeles so oh my god amazing oh yeah yeah nice yeah i mean i guess as an author um i like horror movies you know what i mean like i like to start things off saying as an author now i don't know it's just something i do people love to hear it too they're really they're like wow it's really interesting um yeah so you gotta start you never get a chance to do that i mean and so many as a rich author excuse me as a young young wealthier every day pretty much the the main character protagonist of every horror movie is an author. So it's really striking a chord.

A published author. Sorry. Published author. Ah, yes. A published author. It's not self-published. Just want to let people know it's not. Nothing wrong with that. It's not self-published. I don't have what it takes to publish a book. I have to have someone else do it and get most of the money from it.

So it's great. It's great. They get the most. That's great. At least it's great. Happy for them. Love it. Love Hollywood. Well, we will put all of the info to find Jason and Ghost Town and his books in the episode

description. Everybody check that out. And that's all we got for you guys today. So from all of us here at Too Scary Didn't Watch, goodbye. Goodbye. Thanks for listening to another episode of Too Scary Didn't Watch.

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