Too Scary; Didn't Watch - THE WITCH with Joel Jensen and Caroline Lindy

Episode Date: August 21, 2019

Scary rabbits, exorcisms and hot wood-chopping dads - we're talking about The Witch! Guest brave-person Joel Jensen tells us all the details about this "double black diamond" horror film. Also joined by guest scaredy-cat Caroline Lindy. May God have mercy on our souls. Follow the show: @TSDWpodcast on Twitter, TikTok, and Instagram. Check out our Patreon for bonus episodes and additional content! Rate Too Scary; Didn’t Watch 5 Stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and leave a review for Emily, Henley, and Sammy. Advertise on Too Scary; Didn't Watch via Gumball.fmSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is Emily, Henley, and Sammy, and you're listening to Too Scary, Didn't Watch. Hello and welcome to Too Scary, Didn't Watch, the scary movie recap podcast for those too afraid to watch for themselves i'm emily i am too scared to watch scary movies i'm henley i'm definitely too scared to watch these movies but i am so curious about everything that happens in them i'm sammy i am not too scared to watch scary movies some movies i'm too scared of, but this one I watched. All right. We are your hosts. We're going to get you through every terrifying episode,

because if Henley and I can handle it, so can anybody else. And this week's film, Sammy. This week we're, well, you guys didn't. I watched The Witch, which is a movie that came out in 2015 another a24 film last week we did midsummer really great horror films coming out a24 the witch was written and directed by robert eggers and it's starring anya taylor joy ralph enison kate dickie all your favorites how great of a name is harvey scrimshaw all your favorites how great of a name is harvey scrimshaw it's really good yeah he's he's wasn't there some yeah those are all

of them are good things yeah it's set in 1630s new england 62 years before the salem witch trials um yeah okay well just to you know get ramped up for this podcast i was reading some reviews and dang these reviews use some crazy language to describe the film i think mirroring the tone of the film let me give you some examples yeah let's hear it. The AV Club said, Making an unbelievably auspicious debut. Too unbelievable. A Faustian pact was surely forged. This is the AV Club? Really swinging.

Writer-director Robert Eggers amps up the unholy menace from the opening frames. Oh, boy. Guys, that's not even like the craziest one there's so many crazy ones okay the new yorker the witch hastens to its harrowing climax oh about which i predict you will want to rage deliciously this is a scary movie and a serious one because it lures us into the minds and the earthly domains of those who are themselves scared night and day Wow. Like heavy language throughout all of our reviews. I love to imagine these reviewers being like, oh, I get to write this review right now.

I have so many other examples, but I won't bore you with them. The only other thing I wanted to say is that there's a tweet that's relevant, I think, to us. Oh, yeah. From someone who has, like, 300 followers. There are, like, four likes on it. Oh, my God. How did you find this? Don't ask.

It just says, mid-summer is really just the witch, too. Thomason's crazy summer. So I don't know what that means. Interesting. What a take. Yeah. Really bringing things full circle for our specific circumstances. Great.

Well, that's, I mean, that's very exciting. And that brings us to our guests who are joining us this week. We have two wonderful guests the first is a brilliant director and actor of short films kindred spirit and a to be named monster film she's also too scared it's you i'm lindy you weren't expecting me to say i'm not expecting director of short films be intimidated um thanks for having me ladies caroline tell us your relationship to scary movies how do you feel about them um i feel uh very scared of yeah sure haunted me ever since i was very little okay i don't sleep at for like months after i see a scary movie that really like the grudge i still think about the grudge like most nights yeah

every night i was gonna ask you what's the scariest movie you've seen is it the grudge well yeah when she when she um pops well the whole thing with scary movies is you always want to find shelter. But with The Grudge, you could not hide from The Grudge. And so there's a scene where she pops up underneath the covers. Oh, no. Of your own bed. Of your own bed. I remember that. I remember that.

No. Nowhere safe. And it's hovering over her victims or the main character's face. And that's just like... While they were in the bed. While they were, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they're just like, you know, they i gonna go at night but then they're also so much fun to watch with friends so what am i gonna do yeah well you gotta listen to this podcast yeah um well so our that brings us to our second guest who is brave and watched the movie this week um he is a he's not excited about me doing this he is is a hilarious writer and comedian of UCB's The Dragons and creator of viral internet sensation Tiny Hamster.

It's Joel Jensen. Hello. Thank you. Good to be here. Good to be here. I love The Witch. I think it's a great movie. Yeah. And you're not too I think it's a great movie. Um, yeah. And you're not too scared. You're on Team Brave. I'm on Team Brave for the most part, but I think, um, I haven't always been for a long time. I was Team Scared. Um, that'll, yeah.

That gives me hope for myself. What did it for me was seeing uh horror movies on like opening weekend in theaters because the movie going experience is totally specific and unique because you're in it with you know like a hundred or more other people everybody's scared as shit and you all like react together as a unit yeah you all scream together. And you all, like, react together as a unit. Yeah. You all scream together, and then you all laugh at yourselves for being scared together. We were all panicked and tense together. And you can, like, feel that in the space. And that's what, like, really got me to like horror movies.

Because no other movie can give you that kind of communal experience. Only being, like, scared and feeling stupid about it. Shared terror. Yeah. communal experience only being like scared and feeling stupid about it shared terror yeah but you're all like in it together and like looking at each other and like this so yeah that brought me over to team to team brave that's actually really convincing that i know it sounds like a like a roller coaster it's like you're like in a thing that's almost enough to convince me to try it but i don't know i don't know if I'm there yet. Yeah.

It depends on the movie, too. Like, some, there are probably good intro scary movies. This would not be a good intro scary movie, I would say. I think this is a bit of a double black diamond. It's, like, legit. That's how we should rate these movies. That's how we should rate them. Yeah.

Because everybody knows ski slope ratings. Something everyone can relate to. You'd be alright with a blue square level. And we all know what it means. No explanation necessary. I think there are some good blue squares out there, but that might be for another episode. Okay, so what is the scariest movie that you have ever seen? To you.

The most scared I've ever been is hereditary oh it fucking destroyed me no a lot of people are saying that what what about it we're gonna have to do it i think that it's so scary because well first of all it's a masterpiece of filmmaking and just dot period in a sentence it's like one of the best movies of the past 10 years 20 years maybe longer it's like a legit incredible masterpiece so that's part of it second part of it is that all of the horror is rooted in like really believable real shit so it's like it's about family trauma and the resentments between parents and their children. And all of these things are, like, deeply psychologically real and true. And it, like, dredges these things up.

And then roots itself in them and then delivers, like, demons and shit on top of it. So, like, the demons are, like, icing on the cake. But the cake itself is scary just on its own and, like, very real. And, like, psychologically damaging. And that's, like, what is so hard about it is like it slowly builds on this like family trauma for an hour and a half and then just guitar solo rips you to shreds in like the last 20 minutes um with like this like supernatural stuff that it's like earned every inch and you're already just like destroyed anyway and then you're like oh and they're powerless to stop any of this on top of everything so like kill me please it's like so scary i cried like six times

in hereditary i just want to yeah say that i almost walked out like i couldn't handle it intense yeah it's very intense did you have nightmares i just want to know can you sleep at night not hereditary you couldn't no not hereditary you couldn't no not hereditary and in fact The Witch I also the first time I watched it

I had to watch a Roger Moore James Bond movie to like clear my mind because it freaks me out too bad yeah sure

so half of us have seen the movie and Silent Jenna has seen it she's just right to my life we can't forget about Silent Jenna

one of the things that's weird about seeing Silent Jenna is you can see her reaction to what you're saying but she won't speak it so you'll never even get to defend yourself for having your opinion. Also I'm deeply curious about

what those facial reactions even really mean. So we'll find out afterwards. Yeah we'll find out afterwards. You will never find out. We will find out. Maybe we should give like weekly Jenna facial updates. She says no. Her face clearly says no in that moment. It's time for another Cocktail Hour,

where we give you a themed cocktail recipe to help get you through this scary movie recap. This week's movie was The Witch, and there is a scary goat in The Witch named Black Phillip. We are going to talk more about Black Phillip later, but just know that he was the inspiration behind this week's drink, which is a Black Manhattan. I had never had a Black Manhattan before, and let me tell you, it was delicious. I really loved it. And let me tell you, it was delicious. I really loved it. So to make a Black Manhattan at home, you combine two ounces of rye whiskey, an ounce of Averna, a dash of Angostura bitters, and a dash of orange bitters.

Over ice, mix it, and strain into a cocktail glass and garnish with a maraschino cherry. a cocktail glass and garnish with a maraschino cherry. It's really, and I don't normally love a whiskey based drink, and it is quite good. For this particular movie, the little cherry could also represent the bloody nipple. Oh yeah.

Brace yourselves, ladies. Okay, so then without further ado, we're gonna watch the trailer so that us who have not seen it can sort of get really fucking freaked out um so let's do it oh god my lord and i'll begin i'll help me and i'll leave my sin for i repent and thou shalt be from evil i will turn to thee

none ever shall destroy my faith for i repent and thou shalt be oh god my lord and i'll begin i'll help me and i'll leave my sin for i repent and thou shalt be from evil i will turn to thee See, what I'm curious about is, I want to, for people who haven't seen it based on watching the trailer, I want to hear what you think it's about. Yeah. And then I'll tell you what it is about. Oh my God, he is posing challenges to us. trailer i want to hear what you think it's about yeah and then i'll tell you what it is about oh my god he is posing challenges to us it's about a family that moves to a little village on the edge

of a deep and dark forest so far so good i don't think it's even a village i think they're completely by themselves it's a family unit and when they set up camp they discover that there is a witch in the woods and then it starts possessing them based on the trailer though it seems like they were already scary like the family looks really fucking creepy i think it was just a scary time it was probably a scary time well it's in the 1630s so yeah you your summary is like pretty bang on right so it takes place in Massachusetts in the 1630s and it's about this family who the the parents are ultra hardcore religious like Puritan zealots and like they get exiled from the plantation that they live on it's like a communal plantation they get

like excommunicado from it so the first scene is like the religious tribunal being like get the fuck out you're too religious and the dad being like fuck you you're not religious enough the dad who is hot by the way oh that's a huge take he has like this crazy i promised silent jenna i'd bring up that i thought he was hot well one of the things he's from he's also both of them are from game of thrones and he's from the british office also oh yeah well i looked up other photos of him and i didn't think he was hot in those photos so just in this context he needs a beard yes yes and his voice is like legendary so deep and raspy and like the first lines of the movie are like what for we go into the wood for? Like it's so crazy.

I also have to confess that I put on subtitles at some point. I was a little, I was like, I'm missing things here because it's like thick, like Scottish accents. Like Northern British. Yeah. And old English speak. And I was just like, oh, things are going over my head. Yeah. And so like they are are the family like is originally

from england they emigrated to the united states for uh religious freedom and then were too hardcore for the fucking pilgrim group that they lived with and they got kicked out and they had to go like live in the woods on their own so that so they like create like a little uh homestead and they'd like try to go crops and stuff uh and then like one of the best things about this movie is that it gets like right into it it really like within five minutes you see in the trailer they show it the so the girl is playing peekaboo with her baby brother samuel and she's playing peekaboo with it and after like the third peekaboo when she like takes her hands off her eyes, he's vanished in an instant. Which is, to me, one of the best horror movie scenes maybe ever.

Because it scares the shit out of you. It's one of the movies I wish I hadn't ever seen the trailer. Even though the trailer is so fucking good. Because if I had been able to see that scene, not knowing that that was coming, I would have lost my fucking mind. So the baby goes away. And then they instantly tell you the witch is fucking real. So the next thing you see after the girl loses her brother is a shot of the witch running through the woods holding the baby.

Whoa. So you're like. Creepy naked old woman witch, by the way. Let's whoa so you're like creepy naked old woman witch by the way let's get into some description of what this witch looks like so i think what yeah it like immediately tells you like the witch is fucking real we're not gonna like be coy with you this isn't about like is it or is it a witch or isn't it it's like it's about a fucking witch no ambiguity yeah no ambiguity and that's what i fucking love when they like throw a brick through the window then they cut to a scene where the witch fucking like takes her

hand like rubs it down the baby's chest then she picks up a knife and holds it over the baby then they cut and you're like okay they've said they've saved me from seeing something awful and then then you see a shot of this naked old woman her butt and she's like in with a giant mortar and pestle squishing something up then they cut to a close and it's baby's guts and like the baby's bones and guts and shit and she's like rubbing herself with the baby's yeah it gets literally first five minutes to mash a baby comes up with this it's fucked up and it's clear that it is the baby oh abundantly clear and you don't feel like baby face no but you see baby insides and like it's i'm so glad that we're clarifying this because my biggest question even after reading these reviews

was is this real or is this all in the mind well well that's another there is a there is a question about it so like okay so like the way that the movie works though is like in this scene they go like hey just buy it man like buy it we're not playing we're not like just believe this this is like evil and they go like the witch is real and the and the witch will do unspeakable shit. And you know that 10 minutes into the fucking movie. So you're like, you know what they're up against. You know how evil this shit is.

And then they, and then like, they then, not long after that, start to establish like the witch's magic is also real. And like what she does with the baby, she ends up like making herself into a young woman. And you see that later and she's like, oh, the baby worked. Her magic is real. Whatever she's doing is for real. But there is an argument, and this might get off of recapping the movie, but I was reading about this. There was this fungus called ergot that would grow on on corn and rye and yeah and corn and corn i swear also corn and corn and when and some people think that the salem witch trials were because everybody

was like eating all this fungus and just literally tripping out on like poison and having hallucinations and getting sick and they thought it was witchcraft it was just people were um poisoned yeah like hallucinating almost yeah and they and they in the movie there are shots that show the corn has ergot on it and the dad mentions it in the in one scene but any so so there is a case that like maybe they are just all tripping out but it does say that it's also based on like things that were reported around this time, like actual... And one of the things that's crazy is a lot of the dialogue is lifted straight up out of journals and diaries and texts from that time. People actually wrote these lines about how they greeted each other or when they were upset about something. It's like truly taking these words.

So it's like a very dense script. It's hard to follow sometimes. Do you guys have any examples of lines I love you marvelous I love you marvelous well but you're too young Lee is one of the things I love marvelous well but you're too young Lee and that is in a scene where the dad is explaining to his son that the baby who went missing is damned to hell because it wasn't baptized and so like that's how like so these guys are fucking hardcore and like his son is crying being like tell me that my brother isn't damned to hell and his dad is like i can't tell you that he's not and it's like this movie is dense i will say it's an hour

shorter than midsummer and it felt longer to me i'll say it clocked in at a I will say it's an hour shorter than Midsommar, and it felt longer to me. I'll say that. It clocked in at a crisp 90 minutes. It's pretty quick. It's quick. But I was like, in taking notes, I was like, damn, there's a lot happening here. Okay, so she grinds up the baby.

So she grinds up the baby. We'll skip back. And so the rest of the movie, the baby goes missing. And in fact, this would be a great double feature with Hereditary, although it would drive everyone insane. Because then it becomes about the family's trauma in dealing with like the loss of this child, the loss of their community, being alone, being incapable. Like the dad having to come to terms with the fact that he's a fucking loser and an idiot. And he fucked his whole family over. But still super hot.

But he's still hot because he chops so much wood. He chops so much wood. He has a wood chopper's body and it's fucking sick. His obliques, his obliques are crazy. They are. Yeah, I noticed. Yeah, he does. So then the family starts to like unravel,

basically because of the stress of these situations that are at their feet. The loss of the baby, the fact that they start to realize they will not have enough food to last the winter because all of their crops are rotting and they don't know why. Ergot. Well, it might be ergot.

It also might be the witch. Like casting a rot on everybody. They start to then lose faith. So once the baby is lost, the mother, her resentment for the daughter goes on to like overdrive and she hates her it's her fault or something yeah but also like she also resents that her daughter is like growing up and becoming a woman and a big part of it of the movie is like she has her first period and they like it's a big issue for the parents. Does that have blood all over her? No.

For those of you who haven't seen it or haven't seen a trailer, this bitch has blood all over her face. As happens to every woman when she gets her period. No, I have the same question. I was like, are they going to make this a crazy thing? A big scene in the movie is when she has some ribs removed

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that like it was like it's just like a pressure cooker for this two of them and then their older son goes missing um because he gets lost in the woods but no i think so thomason and caleb who are the the oldest children i think they're looking for apples or something to like lift the spirits of their family and so they go into the woods they're checking a rabbit trap because they are out of their grants they have to start hunting and the dad literally cannot hunt he's too much of a dick so they think they're trying to like pick up the slack and do a nice thing yeah and then and then they get separated the horse gets spooked by the rabbit actually oh that's what i was gonna say is my notes that i took for the movie were literally thomason caleb that's the two that's the daughter and son's names and the rabbit is really scary and that's all i wrote it's a scary rabbit with little orange crazy eyes

eyes are so scary oh you don't see it's really scary i'll just take your word on this one because it's hard for me to imagine a really scary it's It's just shot to be like a signal to you that it's a scary rabbit and it's effective. Does it belong to the witch? It is the witch. Oh! That's what I think. Okay, so basically it spooks the horse and Thomason falls and gets knocked out. And Caleb, the older son, like runs after the horse, I think?

He runs after the dog, who he then discovers its guts have been, it's been eviscerated, the dog. Oh! That's one thing I really do hate about horror. The family dog is dead? It's like gory. It's a bad dog death, yeah. A bad dog death. Horror movies always kill the dogs. Yeah, really.

That's another reason I don't like watching horror movies. It's always the first to go. The pet is always like the cats. Yeah, really. That's another reason I don't like watching them. It's always the first to go. The pet is always the signal of the first to come. Then he's wandering through the woods and he comes across this little shack that's built in a little hill. Oh no. Also, one of the key points of this little boy is he's 12 and so he's getting horny. Oh yeah.

And he keeps checking out his older sister's little boobs. Seeing his sister's boobs for the first time. His sister's little boobs? Yeah, because she's young. Oh no. And he keeps checking her out so he's's little boobs. His sister's boobs for the first time. His sister's little boobs. Yeah, because she's young. Oh, no. And he keeps checking her out, so he's a little horny. Huge flood of a period. Yeah.

Remember she got blood all over her face. She's a woman now. And so he walks up to this house, and then this beautiful woman steps out. And that's when you go like, oh, the baby scrub worked. The baby scrub gave her her youth. And her skin is glowing, and she's like hot and so then he like walks over and she kisses him and then like a gross witch hand comes and grabs his head and like yanks away that was the like biggest jump scare for me i was rescued so then the family

really starts to unravel at this point because like they've lost two kids they've just been thinking that they should leave they now get more and more angry at the daughter because she was with him when he went missing we skipped an important part though which is where they're thomason and caleb are by the river and the twins oh the fuck are like taunting them so they're young they have younger twin siblings oh my god there are a lot of kids there's a lot of kids in this family jonas and mercy um and and um they're just kind of annoying and awful the whole time and thomason tells them that she's the witch just to kind of like be like shut the fuck up like leave us alone and she's like i'm the witch and she like, leave us alone. And she's like, I'm the witch. And she, like, pins her down. And so later, when things start getting bad,

then the twins are like, she's sad, she's the witch, like, to the parents, and the parents start kind of also believing. But eventually it becomes clear that it is, in fact, the twins who are infected by the witch. What? Through the goat black filler. Yeah, we've been waiting so so that's skipping ahead but anyway eventually like the the brother comes back and he's like fucked up and like naked and hysterical and uh out of his like out of his mind and then

he pukes up an apple at one point for me this is the scariest part of the movie yeah the puking up the apple not the necessarily puking up the apple, but his mouth is like... Bleeding. Bleeding. And he's like convulsing. Jaw locked. He's like possessed, kind of like horrible. It was so bad.

And they're like trying to pry his mouth open with like a knife. And it's just like the noise of it. And they're like, you're going to cut his mouth. And they're like prying his mouth open. And then once they get it open, he throws up an apple. Which probably in describing it doesn't sound as horrifying as it was to watch. But it was, for me, the worst part of the movie. Was he better after he threw the apple up?

No. Then he goes into this crazy death scene. It's such a good death scene. Where he has this euphoric speech about entering the arms of Jesus. What? The kid? Yeah. such a good death scene where he has this like euphoric speech about entering the arms of jesus what the kid yeah but it is so clear to me at least that it is a mockery of their religious beliefs that is being like spoken through from satan through him as like a mockery of their beliefs as like and as a way to like insult them and like being like i have his soul he is damned he is mine i'm gonna like make fun of you to your face and then and then he dies whoa whoa i just want to watch that

scene but one of the things that's crazy about that scene it's amazing and one of the crazy things about that scene is they like also like saying to pray around the caleb the boy and as they start praying the two little twins start freaking out and they like can't say the prayer they forget how to double over yeah they can't they lose their words and then at that point you're like oh the fucking twins are possessed but also right before they've like put all the blame on thomason and they're like she said she's the witch she did this to him she was with him in the woods she was with baby samuel and so like now the mom who's already has this weird like hostility competition thing with the daughter is like she's ready to like pin it all on thomason and they're really like turning on her at this point

she's like no like i was joking like i was just it was it wasn't just um and yeah as these little twins are like convulsing on the floor while they pray the mom is like thomas and it was you but she's like she can't be convinced she's like you know it's not about any it's just mad at her daughter yeah so then um he dies they bury the kid and then it starts like really open up and like just like i'm probably gonna skip a little bit i think what happens is then because the twins accuse thomason um thomason says no it's them and then the dad's like just to be safe i'll lock you all three of you in the barn with the goats with black philip together all together for the night and we'll see what happens i guess well at that point at that point he both parents are totally convinced that some or multiple of their children

are possessed by satan at that point they're like not the ones who were convulsing and they're not they're they don't give a fuck who it is. They're just like, throw them all in there. Yeah. And like right before that, that night then the dad like has like a big huge scene where he's praying to God being like, it's my fault. I'm prideful. I've done this. Please spare my children. Yeah. But he still leaves him in there because he's scared shitless.

Yeah. They're in the barn with the goats. Okay. They're in the barn with the goats. They hear a noise in the night and turn to one of the goats. And there's the witch suckling from the goat's teat. Inside the barn with them? Inside the barn with them. And she's like a nasty old naked lady.

Nasty old naked again. The baby juice has worn off. It's worn off. The baby schmear. juice has worn off at this point and this is a goat that a few scenes previous thomason had been milking it and blood came out of its udders yes and now we know why because this witch is sucking it dry and i think one of the things is like god i hate one of the implications is that like the witch's magic has like slowly like seeped into everything in this house from the land to the goats to their minds and like the there's these lines that the mom is saying to the dad at one point where she's

like i cannot feel my faith any longer i do not believe in i do not feel the love of jesus i do not like feel it at all and i think the implications implications that the witch and the satanic evil that we know is real has walled them off. And that is a terrifying thought. No matter how crazy they are, the idea that it has inserted itself between them and isolated them from even that means that they are so alone on every conceivable and inconceivable level. And it is so sad.

They were just like as nothing compared to this power. And it's so fucked. And you feel so, they had no chance ever. Yeah, no, they're donezo. Yeah, so that night, yeah, as the witch is in their little shack that they're nailed into sucking on goat titties the mom in a in a mirroring scene has a dream where her two dead children come back and like are whispering to her this is creepy and they wanted to read from this book which comes in later to be possessed basically if you read this book out loud you become like possessed and i think the implication she does it in the dream but anyway she like hands her she's her uh caleb the boy hands her

baby samuel and she she's like oh he's hungry and like decides to breastfeed him and then they cut to the real like real world outside the dream and the mom is sitting there holding nothing with her shirt open exposing her breasts and a huge raven just eating her and the sound the sound design on it you have to stop you have to stop

that's exactly right can I just say when when Joel just did that all the females in the room just grabbed their breasts. Yeah. And she has this huge smile on her face while it's happening. It's like really freaky. Yeah, she's kind of crazed laughing.

Yeah, she's like lost at this point. Yeah, she's laughing. But it's like, you can't tell necessarily. It's like, what's so good about this movie is the ambiguity of it. It's like, she's also like been driven totally mad by grief. And the ergot. And the ergot. And like this crisis of faith.

She's like zapped, right? Oh my God. So then the next morning, the dad wakes up. He walks outside and he looks like such a fucking bozo. He looks so stupid in this scene. I don't know what it is. The way they do his hair, he looks so stupid. But he walks outside and he sees that

the little goat shack that he nailed his children into has been destroyed and there are just goats' corpses strewn around the yard with their guts out. The twins are gone

and Thomasin is like laying passed out and she like wakes up and he's like, what the fuck? And he walks over to her and then all of a sudden it goes like he like takes a shot in the side and black philip has stabbed him in the side with his huge horns yeah black philip's got the big so black philip kills the dad he dies

because he then he then black philip does a finishing move on him and he like slam him into the wood into the wood pile? Then he'd be chopping the whole movie. Because all he does is chop wood with his frustration of like, oh, I'm not a good enough man. So he got those obliques too. Hey, it's working. He looks great.

So it's a quick death. Moderately. He gets, first of all, stabbed by dull goat horns. Gourd, one might say. The size of a wine bottle. But then he also, there's a moment where he kind of gives up fighting because he's like remembering maybe his prayer of like take me and save my children and so he kind of like at first is like i'm about to fight this goat he grabs an axe and then he then he's like oh he's like never mind but he says what am i living for

you know he says some line that's like really weird and it was like calamity thou art my father or something but it sounds like a weird like quote or something. But it sounds like a weird. Like Bible quote or something? Yeah, but it feels like it's referencing like that Satan is his master at this point. Like you got me, dude. Something like that. I don't know. I don't remember it well enough, but it felt like.

I was like, that's a surprisingly like not invoking like God quote for you to say. Right, right, right. It felt like really like about. The darkness. Darkness. Taking over. Yeah, rules surrendering to it yeah and then thomason come she like recovers goes checks on her dad yes okay she

goes and checks her daddy's dead and then her mom comes out and like it's like you fucking killed everyone and she's crazy her nipple is bleeding yeah she's got the blood her hair is all long and crazy and then she like like chokes her against the wall and it's like you fucking killed everybody i'm gonna fucking kill you and then she like throws her to the ground starts choking her and then thomason grabs like this like thomason is choking her no the mom is choking thomason and thomason grabs a knife and fucking stabs her mom in the head like five times she kills her big time and that's when actually all the blood is all over her yeah that actually all the blood is all over her yeah

and then she like goes and like clomps to a table inside and just goes like fuck she's like drained at this point she's just tired and she's like so disillusioned and like she just killed her mom yeah yeah she's been like mega oppressed. She's pooped. She also knew that like, she knew that her family was planning on like setting her up as a servant to a richer family to like make some money. And so she resented them for that. She like confronted her dad about it and basically called her dad a fucking stupid chicken shit to his face earlier. And he was like, all right, fine. But then she goes and like sits at this table like fuck i just what the fuck just happened i killed my mom my dad got killed by black philip

black philip's hanging out he's there he's there he's chilling so then we we fade back up it's night she goes she like walks outside just because it was night? Yeah. She walks outside with a lantern, walks to the goat house, which is what I'm calling it, the goat house. Black Phillip is outside the goat house waiting for her. No, no, no, no. And she stops and they stop and regard each other. Black Phillip looks towards the goat house and looks back at her. She walks in.

This is great animal training, by the way. I think they shot it as a sports movie. I heard that Black Phillip was actually really hard to work with. Really? I'm not joking. Goats are tough. They said that the horse was great, the rabbit was great, and Black Phillip was a nightmare.

And they had other scenes written in with Black Phillip, and they were like, we had to cut them because the goat was too naughty. So she walks into the goat was too naughty so so black so uh she walks into the goat house black Philip follows her and then you get this such a great scene where the camera's just on her face basically and she starts talking to black Philip and it's like I conjure thee to speak to me I know you were talking to my to the twins i know that they spoke to satan through you i know what you are speak to me oh my god and she like demands it of him and then there's a beat then there's a beat where she's like oh i'm just uh never mind and then and they

never show you like philip okay the camera never cuts away from Thomas's face she says I conjure these speak to me and like it's like what do you want from me and then she like is about to turn away and then this serpentine slithery whisper like Voldemort like comes on and it starts asking her question wouldst thou live he goes wouldst thou like the taste of butter oh wouldst thou like a pretty dress and you're like whose fucking voice is this and then it goes and then they cut and then she's like what would you have me do like what do you want from me and he goes do they see a book in front of you and then there's this book there the book and they cut to the shot of this book and then they cut to a shot then in that shot there's a goats hind leg steps in and then a boot steps in and then another boot swoops down and steps into like he's shape shifted into a human the last project i did when i was looking for a makeup artist and someone who makes

prosthetics i i interviewed someone who had made helped work on black philip oh monster and oh his human form his human form and i was looking at the pictures and I was like, dang, that's too scary for my film, but that's dope. I think one of the things that's really crazy about the human form of Black Phillip in this is that he's wearing cowboy boots with spurs. Why? At that time, was that a thing yet? No, I don't think so.

Ooh, the devil is so fashion forward. He's like 200 years ahead of his time. He looks like a three musketeer. It's really strange. Wait, so wait. Yeah, I want to hear, get more detail on what he looks like. Do you see his face? He's very much in shadow.

And he has a, I think he has a big buccaneer hat. And like curly, like Captain Hook hair and a beard. You only really see his nose and his gloved hand as it rests on her and you see his boots with spurs yeah but he's like in the very much in the background and like very surreal and it like starts lurking behind thomason and then he puts like a hand on her he puts a hand on her a black gloved hand on her shoulder before this also he made her get naked he's like take all your clothes take all your clothes off and then he says and then he says the fucking great line which is where one of the lines from one of these quotes

comes he goes wouldst thou like to live deliciously and this is this is being spoken to like a like a 14 year old girl who's lived in a puritan life like home oppressed beyond measure her mother hated her so she's like yeah dude absolutely i'm covered in my mom's blood absolute fucking glue i want to live deliciously and he goes would you like to see the world and she's like yes so then we cut to a shot of like the the woods again and you see her naked walking into the woods. And then she walks into the woods. And then there's a bonfire of all these naked women going like crazy, speaking in tongues, like gesticulating and gyrating.

And she walks in to join them. And then as she walks in, they all start to levitate. And then she starts to levitate and they're and then she starts to levitate and the last shot is her just like with this ecstatic look on her face as she like like rises up just laughing and laughing laughing oh my god that's a good that's a good again like a triumphant conclusion for her that's a good ending again like a triumphant conclusion for her that's like one of the things

that's really interesting women do well in horror films I feel like they're always well just Midsommar and the Witch well Midsommar and the Witch

it's a very similar ending to Midsommar yeah where she's like alright I'll just like I will integrate this yeah then like here I am bitch I'll do the thing

and also the thing that was supposed to be good that was kind of socially accepted is actually evil and bad. Yeah, like her mom tried to fucking kill her. And me becoming more evil is actually good. Yeah.

And it's this. It is kind of balanced by the fact that you abduct babies and mortar and pestle them into goop. That's true. Well, what I was thinking as we got towards the end of this is like, and maybe I'm wrong because I just heard it described, but it feels like we had relatively few scenes with the actual witch. Yes. There's not a lot. It's more about the effect that she has on them.

Yeah, about the family. Which is really cool. So I think that this movie is scary in three specific ways. Great. There is the fact that how fucked up it would be to like be alive at that time when you can like get ergot poisoning and and like not know what it is the the idea that like what i was mentioning earlier is like this is a guy who is probably like a capable farmer in england and this was a phenomenon where like these guys would move to america and everything

would be the soil is different the climate is different they couldn't do they couldn't replicate their success so they were like what the fuck and so I thought there was like you know like that's one of the reasons I thought there was like dark magic in these places because they like couldn't master the elements yeah so there's that level there's just I'm not good at farming so witches exist I'm well it's like that's just what men are like even today because no one understands the like forces of nature and so religion is trying to explain yes that's the that's layer two of what's scary it's like imagine if you're if that was your worldview and like your worldview is that there are fucking, they're like Satan is waiting behind every dark corner to grab you or your kids and damn them.

And that's real. Like to like live in the world in that way, it would be so scary. And this movie does such a good job of just like making you live in that mindset of like, holy shit. Everything is like, the stakes are massive with everything.

Your baby brother is in hell. I'm sorry to tell you. Like, that kind of shit. And to be fair to them, the stakes were that high. Because if your crops die, you die. And you have no way to explain that. So you might as well come up with the fact that it's the devil doing it. And then the third level on which this is scary is that a fucking real witch is out there trying to eat you yeah so question the women at the end do you think that that's other witches in the community i think so

like other people that have kind of sold their soul to satan is i is the the vibe i got that her signing the book is being writing in the book is okay, I'm selling my soul to the devil now for, in exchange for this delicious life. Delicious, like seemingly immortal life. And I think everyone else around the bonfire are just other people who have also. And it's all women. All women, yeah. So what is this, Satan is a man and there's all these naked women. It's like, I mean, there has to be some metaphor about like, she got her period. A man is saying, do you want to live a delicious life? This baby is killed.

Well, I think it's also just based on like things at the time. Like these are just actual claims that people made at the time. Yeah, I mean, periods were like seen as like evil intrinsically in those days right like there's just so much of that here we are honestly they are yeah i mean i don't love it i actually do like this idea though that it is kind of this all for all those women who were accused of being witches and then you know they were killed or what we don't know what happened either it is kind of like a happy ending that all of them are actually living their best life yeah with satan i do love like these sorts of

ambiguous happy endings where it's like just like midsummer it's like is it a happy or did something bad happen yeah um what is going to haunt each of us from this movie i will go first for me my instinct the thing that really stands out that i'm still thinking about is um the crow yeah the nipple part oh my god oh my god the woman's nipple i think that's a big one for a lot of people yeah yeah yeah i personally have not given birth and have not needed to breastfeed yet i feel a little anxiety about that that image is really not helping yeah no it is that's it for me it's a one for sure. I thought I was going to say the baby, but it. The being mashed up? That's probably what I should have said.

No, but your answer changed my mind. I'm like, no, I think a crow fucking pecking at your nipple until you bleed while you're like in a dream state is somehow worse. I don't know why it's worse, but it's more like visceral for me personally also the fact that she thinks it's her son who she's lost and is dead who has been mashed yeah that that is the one that i i physically reacted to the most when i heard it so probably that joel what's your scariest part of the movie um the scariest part of this conversation has probably been how much i talked not just for such a good job um the scariest thing is the nightmares of being on this podcast i got very excited

no i i think for me nothing like the moment of shock i experienced the first time i saw that baby getting squished up will never ever ever leave me i bet actually seeing that is really fucking crazy especially when you don't know that it is coming yeah you think you've moved you yeah you think you've already been shocked enough by like what they show you with her like touching this baby and then and then the way that she's squishing it like syncs up with the music it's like so i think to me it's it's that baby getting squished up if there's a runner-up after watching this after watching the second time then what stuck out to me most is that is caleb's death scene when he's like after he pukes up that apple and is like sees and like makes a mockery of their religious beliefs as he dies

that was like really striking to me yeah mine was the apple i already said it huh i feel like throwing up the apple and the prying his jaws open something about just having like your jaw like clenching your jaw so hard and then having someone like take a knife to try to pry it open. Oh, it was so horrible. I really hated that. Well, Jenna will never know because she won't say it. And Caroline is... Oh, Jenna's doing a whisper. She's passing along her spookiest part to Henley.

Or something. This just in. I've heard exclusively that her thing that's going to stick with her forever um she won't be able to forget this is the fact that sammy thinks the dad's hot she's done she's done that's yeah there it is smoking hot i mean i heard he's got some good wood chopping obliques yeah his, his obliques are... Don't get me started. That's all I'll say.

Joel, you did such a good job explaining that movie. Thank you. Thank you. I really felt it in my bones. I'm going to be thinking about it for a long time. I don't think I have the nerve to watch it, but I really want to. Early on you thought you might watch it, but as it went on you changed your mind. I really think I'm still really might watch it but as it went on you changed your mind i really think

i'm still too scared yeah i think it's uh i think it is a very very very very good movie it's really really well made uh one thing to note is he has a movie uh coming out with robert pattinson jenna his next movie his next movie is stars robert pattinson and willem defoe as two as two men who work in a lighthouse in maine in like the 1800s yeah and it's supposed to be excellent and apparently robert pattinson punched robert eggers in the face while they were filming it because it was like that gnarly and intense. Out of like off-scene, like pissed off? I don't know. I think he just pushed him too far potentially because there was like miserable and like

cold and crazy and intense scenes. We're big Robert Pattinson fans. Big, huge Robert Pattinson fans. I don't feel that way. Nothing but respect for my Batman. Don't include me in this. Oh, you're Pattinson fans. I don't feel that way. Nothing but respect for my Batman. Don't include me in this. Oh, you're not? No.

Wow, this is going to have to be an off-pod discussion about the merits of Robert Pattinson. Well, thank you. Thank you so much, Joel, as we said. Thanks to Caroline, who had to step away. had to step away once again to our listeners our many listeners let us know

what you want us to do next if you want to come on and talk a lot and then feel really badly

about yourself after Joel can recommend that to you and you can be our next guest everyone's dream and until then

if you get too scared watch an old James Bond I guess cleanse that palate. That's what Roger Moore is there for. Only Roger Moore will do. And goodbye.

Goodbye. Hey, fellow scaredy cats. This is Emily, and thanks for listening to another episode of Too Scary Didn't Watch. Now hopefully you know everything you ever wanted to know about The Witch without having to see a single moment of it. You can leave us a review on iTunes now, so go ahead and type that up,

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