Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Danny Kingsbury: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1484

Episode Date: May 8, 2024

In this 1484th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Danny Kingsbury about his career in radio with a particular focus on his time as PD of CFNY, Y95, Q107 and 640. Find out the true Humble and Fred origin story, what really went down when Rogers bought CISS, and why CFNY didn't play Pixies in 1989. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, The Advantaged Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada, The Yes, We Are Open podcast from Moneris, The Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball Team and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1484 of Toronto Miked, Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. The Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team. The best baseball in the city outside the dome. Join me on May 12th for the home opener Be There or B Square. Recyclemyelectronics.ca. Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past.

The Advantage to Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada – valuable perspective for Canadian investors who want to remain knowledgeable, informed and focused on long-term success. Season 6 of Yes We Are Open – an award-winning Monaris podcast hosted by FOTM Al Greggo and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making his Toronto Mike debut is Danny Kingsbury. Welcome Danny. Hey, Hi Mike, how are you? Good to meet you.

By the way, I always am conflicted. Like we are meeting on Zoom, but are we meeting each other? Like, does this count as, oh, I met Danny Kingsbury. I think it does. I go back and forth on it like like, I don't know, like, well, can I tell people? Yeah, I was hanging with

Danny for, you know, 90 minutes on Wednesday afternoon, even though this is or Wednesday morning, whatever the heck this is, even though it's a zoom that counts. Well, think of the alternate, right? Because it would have been, you know, maybe a music week thing. And we'd have, we'd have been shaking hands and say, Hey, nice to meet you. How you doing? How's it going? When'd you get in? When do you leave? Where do you stay in? What are you doing? And then both of us would be looking over

each other's shoulders to see if there's someone more important in the room that we can talk to. So I like this a lot better. I've had that moment where somebody's got your attention, but you see in the corner of your eye, like somebody you really wanna go talk to, but like, how do you pull off that move? Like, I'll be right back.

That's tough, right? No, no, it's a classic. I've been to enough cocktail parties over the years to someone, someone's saying, hey, how you doing? You don't care. Hey, where are you going? You don't care. So there's always a bit. It's like, hey, we got to grab a drink this week. And that never happens, right? No, no, it never happens, of course. By the way.

Nice to meet you. Listen, like many people in the business, and I think you and I chatted a little bit about this, like so many people, like I know so many people who know so many people, like they're probably, nevermind the six degrees of separation, I'm probably good for,

I'm gonna narrow it down to three. I could probably find for, I'm going to narrow it down to three. I could probably find anybody in three people and I mean anybody in the business in Canada, right? So and some are quicker. I said, oh, I would know this guy and I can contact them and then I would be in touch with them. So we're definitely like that. And I also, you know, so you're obviously buddies and colleagues with Humble and Fred and I know we're probably gonna chat about them. So but it's one of those, if I hear bad things about people from people that I like, I believe it. You know what I mean? Like I don't usually say, well, I know you're saying that but I'm going to make up my own mind. So, uh, I know that may sound a little bit shallow, but I do. I trust,

I trust people. I have a circle of trust of people. And if they say, oh yeah, great guy, Josh, he's great. Yeah. You guys would get along. Like it's, you know, and so that's good enough for me, particularly these days, right? It's like, yeah, well, that's good enough for me particularly these days, right? It's like yeah, that's good enough for me If they like them I do so you're in that group. So that's great. And listen, I respect what you do even though I See it from you know arms length, but yeah, it's pretty I'm probably like many of your guests that say it's pretty impressive what you've accomplished I mean, I have some questions for you before it's all said and done about what you're doing and how you're doing it and all that. But it's impressive. Okay, don't forget though.

Don't forget, I want to field your questions, but I wanted to say thank you for those kind words. I realize I like you already. Like you open things up by talking about how great I am. That really appeals to me, so thank you. Hey, listen, I'm many things, but not dumb. So have you listened? Have you consumed any of the 1,483, because you're 84, 1,483 episodes of Toronto Mike?

I have probably consumed in total half dozen of them. That's a low percentage. I was going to say that that probably sounds like a negative or apathetic on my part, but I'm going to be brutally honest here where I'm, um, I don't, I enjoy audio, right? I'm an audio guy. I love it. But I just, the one thing I always find about spoken word audio is that it needs your attention, right? Like you've got to, you know, you can say, well, you can do other things while you're listening to spoken word audio. And I guess you can,

I guess you could drive. I mean, that's it. But I mean, it really is a time thing for me. And those are some of the questions that I'm going to have for you later. But yeah, so listen, I've heard, I've heard your show and I've heard other, you know, I've heard guests on it. And, um, yeah, it's good. I mean, I really, uh, I like your, I like your style. It's very, um, you know, you do some research. I had a dime, obviously, which again, it's pretty impressive without any guests. It's a, you should do some seminars for radio and teach talent, how to do show prep. Well, thank you.

These are, these are amazing, kind words. Listen, I wish you were here. So where are you? Are you in Ottawa? Where are you? I am in the beautiful downtown metropolis of Redford, Ontario, which is 40 minutes from the Canadian Tire Center. How close to Ottawa are you? Yeah, well, 40 minutes. Oh, the Canadian Tire Center. You know what? As I heard you? Yeah, well, it's 40 minutes. Oh, the Canadian Tire Center. You know what?

As I heard you say that, I thought you meant it was a joke that that's how close you are to the nearest Canadian Tire store. Like no, the nearest Canadian Tire store is four minutes. You know what, Danny? It's hard for us Torontonians to keep track of what that arena is being called these days. Like to me, it's the Correll Center or like, I feel like it's had a few names, right? Yeah, well it was, let me try here.

Palladium, it started. Correll Center. People will be yelling. Something between, yeah, something between Correll and Canadian Tire, I feel. Yeah, darn. But yeah, it's been about it's been about four names and it will, I'm sure, will be another name when it ends up going downtown to LeBreton Flats.

Where it always should have been. I used my former father-in-law lives in Ottawa and I spent some time in that that drive to Kanata like this is like if you put the Toronto Maple Leafs arena in Markham. Yeah, so if your voice these bots for Ottawa in the future, always say Canada. What did I say? Canada? You said Canada? Yeah. Like do you live in Canada? Or do you live in Canada? Canada. So that aside, yeah, I don't know where it

should have been built. I know that I lived in Stittsville, which was again, if four minutes from my house, so I could leave a game hockey game with five minutes left in the third period and watch the end in my living room on television. So we were pretty close to it. And it was just, you know, the reason he left early, because if he didn't leave early, you'd be an hour getting up because everyone parks. It's there's there's no mass transit. Like there are buses, but no, it's not like going to the ACC, right? I mean, it's just not right there's no infrastructure no one's in there right like nobody bikes to the game in uh Canada like you can't it's it's I mean

if if it was downtown a lot of people would probably bike but it's it model of, let's say the hockey arena would be Oakville. So if you had to, now, but the problem in Toronto, you could actually take a go train over to Oakville, right? So I can't compare. Like it's this big arena in the middle of nowhere, but in fairness, they've built a lot of infrastructure around it. So in the early, like late 90s and early 2000s in Ottawa, it was really a tech town.

I mean, it was really becoming a hub and a lot of startups were built here. So there are a lot of those six-story glass buildings that look like Silicon Valley, and they're dense-ish in area, but there are a ton of them. And then there were all these startup company names across the top of them, but that died off, but then it didn't. It's kind of come back. So that's really what it's like you've got the arena out west and then and you're in Kanata and then you're there's not there's not a lot of well there wasn't a lot of housing built

around it but now they're starting to do that so it's kind of a weird thing but it's you know it's a nice arena I always thought it was impressive and we were lucky enough you know when I was with Rodgers we were lucky enough to have a private box there which which Harvey Glott actually bought before Rogers bought the radio station. Cause I don't think we'd have had it otherwise, but beauty like right between the blue line and center ice. So I mean perfect for concerts, perfect for hockey and tickets were tickets were plentiful. It's not like the lease. Right. All right, Danny, I'm going to warm you up now with some notes that came in when I

announced on Twitter the app formerly known as Twitter that you were making your Toronto Mike debut. And then we're going to walk through this kind of wild radio career. And I have some spots. I'm going to pester you of annoying questions, but the first note I want to read to you came in from Jeff Lumbee. Oh, Jeff Lumbee says you are one of his two all-time favorite program directors. Any kind words to say in return there? Now the other gentleman who was just in the basement a couple of weeks ago is Scott Turner. So it's you and Scott Turner, his all-time favorite program directors. What was it like working with Jeff Lumbee? Okay, I did hear that episode because

Lumbee teed me up on that. I said, okay, well, I'll hear that episode for sure. So what was it like working with Jeff Lumbee? Well, maybe I should start and right up front, we go back, I mean, I met him the very first day that I started in radio, along with Dan Durant. So the, who was Dan Geeber. So I met them on the very first day I started in radio, which was January 1978, DKSA, Leutminster, Alberta, minus 45.

And those two guys were at the radio station. I was the new guy and that's the day we met and he made an impression right off the bat. Like he's, you know, he's such a dink, he's so great. He's always been a dink. Like he's just one of those, you know, I had a Camaro back then. So I had a 1976 tight LT Camaro and it had sidebars. So you know what those are with the exhaust, right? That was kind of loud, right? And it had wide tires in the back and all of that. So I thought it was pretty cool.

And then I meet him and he's got a little Honda Civic and they were just out there. Right. They had this gold Honda Civic and he just looked at the car and he's just like, what is that? That is like the cheesiest car I've ever seen. Like, you know, just up one side, down the other, about how terrible it is to have a car like that. And only because he just thought it was gauche, right?

He was just like, who has a car like that? I said, well, what kind of car do you have? Yeah, I've got a Honda Civic. I'm a Honda Civic. So it has a car like that? I said, well, what kind of car do you have? Yeah, I've got a Honda Civic. I'm a Honda Civic. So it kind of started like that. I mean, and we just argued all the time. And if I spoke to him last week, I guess, or a couple of weeks ago on something,

and part of it would be shots of the call. Like it wouldn't be, oh, how are you? I love you, I miss you so much. I hope you're great. It's always, there's always something in there. There's something, you know, some kind of dig. So so that's how it started. And then, I mean, you know, we'd be here a long time, you know, going over

going over the years on that. But yeah, look, if he's he's the guy, he he's really special to me. And I know he's and no matter what I say he'll take it with you know coming from me right like he's he's set in his own ways he's made he's made great strides and been very successful and his wife is just a doll and she's very successful and so they they have done well in their careers and and yet and he's done it all really by kind of being a dink as well, right? Like, and I mean that just like he's very set in his ways.

He's not compromised, it's not his middle name, right? So he's set on something, that's the way it is, and he's really not. And it's worked for him. It's been absolutely fantastic. So we kind of went our separate ways, if you will, in radio, but we always stayed in touch. Which, as a sidebar, is really interesting.

Do you ever think about, you know, I don't think you weren't around back then in those late 70s, but do you ever think about how did we communicate back then? Because it was just a phone. And that's it, right? Like it was just a landline like that's so how did we keep in touch with people? I guess it was just on the phone, but I don't even have this memory of, oh, yeah, I would call him and but I must have, right? It's not like you did you write letters?

I mean, I do go back, but I was I was quite young in the late 70s. But like you could write letters, right? I know my buddy did a program where he went to, I think he went to France, sort of like where Lumbee is right now. He went to France, an exchange program. He went there for a year. And we would exchange letters, snail mail.

And then, yeah, you could phone people, but mainly you kept in touch with people you could geographically visit their homes. He would knock on their door and be like, Hey, you want to go grab a beer with. But you'd also you also needed to pay. This is gonna sound really bizarre. So I'm kind of puking here a little bit. But it's like, imagine back then when you want to, if I was in Lloyd Minster and he

moved back to Saskatoon and I wanted to call them like it would be long distance. Oh yeah, it was expensive. I have to find a phone that would pay for a long distance call. Anyhow, we stayed in touch. Dan Duran, same thing. Okay, so what was Dan Duran like here? Well, I've now changed my mind. I'm going to walk through it a little chronologically and when it's appropriate, I'll read these

nice notes I got for you. But I want to know, A, what made you want to get into radio? And then I need a little tidbit because Dan Duran does appear on the Humble and Fred show, the podcast, which I produce. So literally tomorrow when I pop on the show, because I pop on Thursdays at like when, basically when Dan Duran shows up to do his news, I pop on. So I'll see via zoom. I'll see Dan tomorrow.

But what kind of guy was Dan when you first met him pre-Duran I suppose I don't think he's changed a bit like I'm like I'm like Lumbee I think you know Dan Dan was he probably broke something the first day I met him and and you know he probably was carrying a stack of carts you know like for commercials and they a stack of, of carts, you know, like for commercials and they probably fell on the floor and a couple of them probably broke, right? Like that, that was Dan, but, but he was the most likable guy, you know, ever. Just a big, you know, he was, he was a big boy, Dan Durand and, and yeah, but I

didn't even know him as Durand. I don't even call him that anymore. I still call him Geeb. So G-E-B, but, and yeah, but I didn't even know him as Durand. I don't even call him anymore. I still call him Gee, so G E B. But, but yeah, so, uh, met him really, you know, terrific, terrific guy thing thing. And we hit it off the same way, but not exactly. Not that we don't have as long a professional life, uh, professional work cycle as I have with Lumbee. But yeah, Dan had a, you know, I remember his car

too. It's weird back then, right? We were, we were 20 years old and I'll get into how I got, how I met them. But yeah, he had a, he had a Toyota Corolla four speed. I had Pasquale, which was the Camaro and Lumbee had his gold Honda. So great stories about Dan and his car. But so how I thought he was the weedy and I still think that. Well, if I may. So it sounds wild to me that in this Westminster, how big is that? Is that a town? Is that a city? That's how large a market are we talking about here? You really are from Toronto, right?

Hard to tell. Okay, first of all, it's Lloyd Minster. Oh, shit. Okay. Lloyd Minster. My apologies. Okay. No, don't apologize. This is who I am.

Not Westminster. That's another place. Okay, Lloyd Minster, because only to just to set you up here is that in this small little market in 1978, you've got yourself, of course, you will go on to do some really cool stuff we'll talk about. And you got great pipes great pipes to him hearing it in the headphones. But you got you got Jeff Lumbee, who would go on to be famous for voiceover work. And he's in the Red Green Show is and you know, he's had a great radio career and now he's retired in in France, as I mentioned.

And then you got Dan Duran, who was on national television because of his voice doing lots of voiceover work. He's in lots of big movies playing usually playing the Anchorman or something like that. But usually, yeah. So, but that's kind of interesting that all that comes out of this Lloyd Minster. Yeah, well, it gets even better with Moose Jaw. But so, so how I got into radio was quite still want to get there. Yeah, let's do that No, let's do Dan by way famously famously So so Lumbee's been you know on a few times and Humble's been on many times and Fred has been on many times

I mean on Toronto mic'd of course kind of famously in the humble and Fred show You know discussion arena Dan Duran won't do this. So Dan won't come over and, you know, face my, uh, annoying questions for 60 to 90 minutes. So, uh, I'll never get the story of Dan Duran, but, and you know, that, that doesn't surprise me to be honest with you. It's because I don't find Dan to be that kind of guy. Like he is an, Oh, I'm going to sit down, talk about myself for 90 minutes. Like he just, he's not, he's, he's still more of a question

asker, right? Then, you know, he's a talker, but he does, he, he's so curious. He wants to know everything all the time. So, so I didn't know those guys. I was living, I was born and raised in Edmonton. All I ever did, I did. I was the shoeshine boy, which was my first job ever. I was probably 13 years old. And then I got a job in a restaurant while I was going to school. And I got

a job in the kitchen in the restaurant. And then I worked, you know, in a kitchen or, and I worked with some really great chefs back then. So this would have been 76, 77, 75, 76, 77. And I didn't even know I was working with great chefs at the time. But, and then in high school I took cooking, because I went to a technical school. I didn't have the grades. So I was doing cooking, I was making a living as a cook.

But I was buddies with someone, his real name's Bruce Hammond, and his radio name is Jay Hamilton. So we worked at the restaurant business, and he was a waiter, I was a cook. Life was good, we partied hard, but he wanted to get into radio. I said, oh, I love radio, I love. You know, I grew up listening to 630 Shed and Edmondson.

I mean, from the 60s, right? I'm just, as early as I can remember I love music, like just absolutely love music. And my mother loved music, still does. And so we'd have the little transistor radio. It's gonna sound cliche and I apologize for that, but it is really true. You'd go into our kitchen and you know the Beatles would be on the AM radio and I thought, oh this is the most coolest thing ever. thing ever. Then all this cheesy pop music, but then the Rolling Stones would be on. I had an older sister,

Gildo, and then I had an older brother who's passed, but they were rockers. We would get Les Zeppelin 3 for Christmas, and then we'd fight over it. Because we only had one stereo and then fighting over an album we'd scratch it and I would get Steppenwolf Monster for my birthday which is Boxing Day, Lumbee's birthday by the way as well. So anyhow, I just love music and I was I was just subjected to everything from the Association you, to Led Zeppelin, to Pink Floyd, to you name

it. So I'm really, I'm not one of those music snobs. And that's where, that's where it's not that we wouldn't get along because of that. But I, one thing I do know about you, you know a shitload about music, like really encyclopedics. And a lot of your guests are, know a shitload about music, like really encyclopedics. And a lot of your guests are, know a shitload about music, encyclopedic. I know a shitload about music, but only the emotional part of it.

Like, oh, I love that song. And if, you know, if we did a little game one night, had a couple pops that we had, you know, we've got my old iPod here, you know, and I've got 4,000 songs on it, I think. And if you click this, you just start the song, like within three seconds, I will name the artist and the title. It's just one of those, it's an ear thing with me.

Now I've said, well, who did they play with and what songs did they write and where would they go on to? I'd be like, I'm not 100% sure about that. I just know the, I know the song and those success and I, you know, my ears sonically have got it. So, music lover, listened to the radio, went crazy over the radio. I just loved 630 Chat. You know, they would do, you know, had great announcers, West Montgomery in the Morning Show, Bruce Bowie was there, Chuck Chandler was there, Bob McCord was there, you know, Brad Phillips, who we became, you know, I met him very early in the game as well, and he went on to do a few good things at chorus. And so I just loved listening to KJ, Keith James, and I just had a dream.

Wow. I just can't imagine doing that for a living. But as it turns out, my buddy Jay Hamilton got a job and he had got CKSA at Lloyd Minster because he took he took the Columbia School of Broadcasting. And it was a correspondence course. And as absolutely ridiculous as it sounds right now, it was kind of cool. You know, you get the Manila envelope in the mail, right, and there'd be a blank cassette in it, and it probably was a, you know, Sonic, you know, it wasn't a Maxell cassette, it was a cheap cassette.

And I think as part of your, as part of your entrance fee or, you know, to take the course, your tuition, they sent you like a little crappy cassette player, right? Play and record and you do your tapes on there. So, yeah, so he takes that course and then he kind of teaches it to me. Okay, so it would be everything from, okay, here's lesson one, here's what you need to do. And some of the lessons even to this day,

I still tell young announcers, and really a lot of it is about diction, right? And being, don't be lazy mouth, don't be lazy mouth. And there's a way to kind of get better at speaking more clearly, and I'm kind of doing it now. So when you're in a car, read the billboard out loud. When you're reading the newspaper back then, read a couple of articles out loud

and slowly and over enunciate. The funny thing is if you do that, anyone listening to this or anyone who sees this, if you actually do that exercise and then one minute later speak, you'll say, hey, you know what, that actually worked. I'm not as lazy mouth as I was before. And also, you know, and it really had little to do with, you know, how deep your voice is. It really is just about, you know, enunciation. And then I always do the line, look at it. If, you know,

I checked once Pavarotti was in the dressing room before he went on in Rome to play at the Coliseum and you know what he was doing? He was warming up. So if it's good enough for Pavarotti, the best singer in the world, it's good enough for you as an announcer, do your exercises, warm up before you broadcast, right? So that, some of that, the Pavarotti story wasn't in there, but the part, the Columbia School of Broadcasting,

that's the kind of stuff that they taught. And then you got to read commercials, which I would pay money for now, to A, to see them and then to hear them. So he took that course, he taught it to me, he got a job, he left that job, and guess where he got the job? In Lloyd Minster,

which by the way is two and a half hours out of Edmonton. It's east out of Edmonton, by the way. Shout out to Edmonton, who in this calendar year alone has won as many playoff rounds as my may beliefs have won in the last 20 years. That's a fact. Well, you know, I got to move to Edmonton and move back to Edmonton at my favorite station that I grew up listening to 630 chat in 1979, the inaugural year of the Oilers. Previous to that, I was an Edmonton Eskimos fan. I know they're now the Elks, but it's really hard to change that. But it is the CFL, so nobody even talking about it.

But anyhow, so growing up in Edmonton, like Edmonton football club was like, Oh my God, it was just, ah, the Escobar, the, you know, winning all the script. They were always winning and then you move and then all of a sudden the oilers are there and I'm like, uh, you know, this is the name dropping at all. It's just, no drop names, drop names. So, you know, uh, Wayne Greskey, you know, pick them. We did the contest with Wayne Greskey where you have breakfast, uh with one of the listeners Yeah, and his agent was mark, uh, mike barnett at the time and he was he was you know on pro star cereal boxes Right. So I was the promotion guy ched like, uh, yeah, so, uh

Wayne wants to do a you know do a breakfast with one of his, with a fan. I said, great. So then we'll do the morning show. We'll take the Chad morning show over to his house. Wayne will show up. He'll sign autographs. We'll get pro stars. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So we do this content. And I mean, it was incredible. It was absolutely incredible. And then that morning, I had to go pick up Gretzky at his condo on River Road, the Edmondson. Wow. And I remember, you know, mmm, buttoning at the condo. All of a sudden, yeah, I go, oh, hi, good morning, Mr. Gretzky. It's Danny K. from Shaddy. Come on up. I'm just like, come on up. What do you mean? I come on up.

So I go up. He's there. He's got the towel on his hand. Where are we going? I said, oh, by the way, congratulations on winning the Stanley Cup last week. What am I doing here? Right? What's wrong with this picture?

Anyway, I tell them the whole thing we drive over. It's just, I mean, like those, those days when we want to talk about, you know, the NHL and the players and being close to the community. And so guys like Mark Messier, Coffee, Curry, you know, Kevin Lowe, Grant Feuer, these guys would come to the station, you know, Glenn Anderson, they'd all come to the station and, you know, kind of like, hey, do you guys have any concert tickets? Like they're all, they're all like, they're 18 years old, they're 18. But Danny, just think about that. Like, like you have direct, like your direct connect with Edmonton Oilers, Stanley Cup champion Edmonton Oilers. By the way, I'm going to drop River Road on my wife tonight because she was born and raised in Edmonton. And she likes to remind me it's the city of champions.

So, you know, I'm going to say, hey, do you know where River Road is? I'm going to do that thing. But like, imagine today, I tried to get Brendan Shanahan on Toronto Mike because he's a Mimico guy and I was just not, you know, we went to the same high school. I just wanted to talk about, you know, Lakeshore and MIMICO and New Toronto and like that whole scene. And I had to go through so many layers of PR at MLS E to have it finally rejected. Like you're able to, hey, you know, can I come on up? Come on up, Danny.

Yeah, and I was just there, I'll be down here. And you know, we rented a limo. And he hit the buzz. Like, yeah, come on up. I'm like, okay. All right. So, but it was, these were young guys who were living the life. I mean, they were living the life, trust me. Like, there were really good night clubs in Edmonton, still are, I'm sure. But, so they were living the life, but they were just kind of normal guys.

And then all of a sudden they just started becoming fantastic, great, right? So, so yeah, it was that kind of stuff, you know, like with the, you know, being at CHED and being exposed to all that stuff. But it just didn't seem like a big deal back then. We did so many great things at CHED. So many, I worked for a guy named Pat Bond, we may have heard of, he was PB then he was just amazing program director and you know, super creative and worked for a guy named Vern Trail who was just I mean, these radio guys that I was exposed to, they were old school guys, right? Like Vern was for sure. And they knew they taught you more about life than radio and

radio was pretty simple. Just you know, have fun. So is it Lloyd Minster then Edmonton? It was Lloyd Minster then Moose Jaw. Moose Jaw. And that's where you meet, is that where you meet Humble Howard Glassman? You are correct, sir. So I was there, I was in Lloyd Minster for maybe January till September that year. And then I got a job in Mooseustra and Dan and I, Durand, we just got an apartment in Lloyd-Vinster. So it took like several months.

So we finally got an apartment and then I said, oh Dan, geez, I got a job at CHAB and he's like, oh, that's okay. So I moved there and I moved there as an announcer. I was an announcer at CKSA and I was an announcer at CHAB. And Pat Bond actually hired me there. And I'll never I'll never forget the negotiation. He said, Yeah, how much money do you make? I said, Well, right now, I just got a raise. I'm at $550 a month. He goes, Yeah, okay, that's fine. Okay, but it is fine. Because you know why I wanted to work at CHAB was because that

was a Moffat station and Moffat was a family owned, you know, a company, radio company and their headquarters were in Winnipeg but they owned all these stations. They were mostly western back then. They did buy Jam in Hamilton. So they had Moosejust, CHAV. Calgary had CKXL. And all these AMs, like late 70s powerhouses, right? I mean, big. It's crazy to think about.

Big audiences, big cubes. So they had Edmonton, Ched. They had Vancouver, which was LG and CFOX at the time. And then Winnipeg, they had CKY and City FM. They had Vancouver, which was LG and Ceefox at the time. And then Winnipeg, they had CKY and Citi FM. So everyone wanted to get to Moose Jaw because that was their training ground. Right. And companies, I mean, I don't know if we'll ever go back here, but companies can learn

a lot by that model where you hire people from Lloyd Minster or from Rosedown or from Prince Albert or from anywhere, any small town, you know, with a grain elevator, who's got an all-night show and the DJs are in there flipping records, right? Hire those guys if you think they've got potential, bring them to Moose Jaw, teach them exactly how it's done in those big markets, leave them there for a year, start them on the online show and let them leave doing afternoon drives. And then we'll hire next time we have an opening, which we always do in those other markets, hire them. So it was really a training ground from or, you know, for a lot of announcers and the list of people that went through Moosejaw. Wow, like pretty

incredible. So I go to Moose Jaw, I meet Howard. You know, today, just Danny, so I want to hear more about Howard here. But today, that Moose Jaw station with just simulcast, Roz and Mocha from Toronto. You know, I know where you're going with that. And yeah, you're probably right what it does. But I know that that's a very, You're probably right what it does, but I know that that's a very... There are a few operators, one of them is Golden West, and I believe that's who owns them now, Golden West Broadcasting. Still a few operators like independent guys, family guys, who still run their smaller market stations like they're supposed to be run.

And boy, you'll be shocked to hear this. They're successful in their markets because they're doing it the way radio was meant to be done. You're supposed to service the community that you're licensed to service. Be local, live in the community, know the people who run the businesses, be a member of the Kiwanis or be part of the community and you'll be successful in those smaller markets if you do that. But yeah, right now, and I know they just celebrated their 100th anniversary, CHAB AM, like maybe last year or whatever.

So good that they're on the air and they do have an FM now. But you're right and I know where you're going. Exactly. And that part just, that's the part that just frustrates the heck out of me. It's just all of these companies bought all these small market stations and they bought them for girth, right? Like they bought them because we want to go from 40 to 70 stations. But what they've become is, and each of those small market stations had a manager and a sales manager and had a morning show that lived in the marketplace, hired

people, there was some good training grounds there, and everybody lived and worked in the community. So because of it, they were all pretty much successful. They were all pretty much successful. But once you start getting rid of the managers in the market and the sales managers in the market, and it's a computer with programming from another market, I mean, the station, maybe it sounds a little better

than having local guys on, but it doesn't connect to the community. So the job- By the way, this is this conversation is very enlightening because you're filling in a few gaps here. So for example, you've got Humble Howard and Moosejaw at this Moffitt station, of course. And now I learned from you now that that company also

owns CFOX in Vancouver, where, you know, Humble Howard will end up right. Right. So like, it's all kind of. And now, it's all kind of, and now it's a you who introduces Howard to Dan Duran. Yes. So I got, I got to Moose Jaw first, right. And Howard was there. And, and again, he'll laugh at this, but he was kind of a dink. He was kind of a, Hey, I'm humble. I heard, you know, I have, you know, my first job was I was denouncing it. Sellers, I was doing a low dollars. The shoppers, this is humble, you know, and his dad owned, you know, a clothing store right down stairs from the radio station.

And yeah, he was like, who's who's this guy? Who's the Kingsbury guy coming in here? Take it in there. Trying to think he's something from Lloyd Minster. And you know, literally, I was, I was waiting too early in the biz to look at people like that and go, well, you're kind of a dink, you know, I just, I just, you know, what I said at the top, I said, you know, if I like you, because somebody else said you're, you're okay, that's kind of, I was very, I think I still am. I'm pretty trusting. I'm pretty open, right? And I've been hurt because of it, Mike, because I'm being so trustful to people. People have hurt me.

But this dink eventually you would recruit this, we'll get to this because we're going to spend a bit more time once we get you to Toronto, obviously, but assuming we get there. But more time once we get you to Toronto, obviously, but, um, you know, assuming we get there, but, but, but at some point you do recruit humble Howard to be a part of the CF and why morning show. So this is in 1989. So, you know, you must've seen some great talent there. Yeah. Well, you know what? There's, there's, there's a lot of water running between moose jaw and, and CF and why in 1989 for sure. Because yeah, he and I did become really, really close in Moose Jaw as well. Great guy, we really hit it off.

And then Duran, and I can't completely recall how Duran and Dan got to the station, but Lumbee eventually got to the station as well. And I know when Dan got there, there was shortly after I got there because we actually rented a house. Are you ready? 759 Hoshilega Street East in Moose Jaw. So Dan and I had this house and it was party house and I had these huge Moran speakers like the size of grand pianos and we would just party like hard. And Howard was part of that course he lived at home because his parents lived there right so yeah he was

great we became great friends he became Saskatchewan's most humble distraught he became humble Howard he was the evening guy Pat Vaughn gave me the drive show at CHAB and oh Howard was pissed off he was like, how does he get the drive show? Oh, it's unbelievable. He's only been here a couple of months. Where's he getting the show? But he got over that. We became great friends. And so, yeah, then I ended up getting a job at Chad. So again, the phone call comes. Okay, we need an overnight weekend guy at Chad.

I'm like, okay, sure. And then I remember it was Chuck McCoy who hired me and said, okay, what are you making? I said, I'm making a thousand bucks a month now. And he goes, oh, okay, well, we can handle that. I never get a raise, Mike, I never get a raise. Well, you have to lie. When they ask you that question, you have to lie.

I know, I know now, but I didn't know that then. But listen, I'd have taken a pay cut to go to jail. Are you kidding me? That was my hometown, my radio station. I just oh my God, I was just such heaven. I don't know if I was ever happier. Well, there were times for sure, but certainly professionally, that was such a great time. And then Howard stayed at CJB for a while, but he ended up going to see Fox like overnight at Seafox.

And he had success there. Same thing, he took his shtick out there, you know, Humble Howard, and I'm going to have trouble with the years on it, but then I know he moved to Calgary to work for Kick out there. So, but again, we always stayed in touch. And I would, I remember flying out to Vancouver to Mrs. Howard and at Seat Box and going into the, on Richard Street and LG 73. And Schaeffer was out there.

Don Schaeffer was there. And yeah, it was just really, again, now I think back and say, wow, how lucky can a guy get? I mean, to the things that I was exposed to. And I'm not suggesting I took it all for granted, but it really became kind of, this is the way it is, right? Like this is the way it is. Like you, you get to meet all the, all the stars, you get to meet all the

celebrities in the business and it's no big deal. You know, you want to, you want to have a Papa burger somewhere, right? So it just, it's just not like that now at all, right? So Howard does this thing. Dan, I think, went directly to Calgary, and I think from Moose Jaw. And he was at Kik as well, so those guys worked together there.

And then I stayed at Ched. So I can pick it up here a little bit. So Lumbee is, I think that's when he moves, no, then Lumbee moved to Edmondson at K97. So Danny K was at Moose Jaw, Humble Howard was at Moose Jaw, Dan Duran was at Moose Jaw, and Jeff Lumbee was at Moose Jaw. And then all four of us would be gone in a year or two, right? So I'd go to Edmonton, Lumbee went to Edmonton, and Howard to Vancouver, then Calgary, and then Dan to Calgary.

So, and again, we'd always stay close, always stay together and always... Well, it is wild considering, you know, soon we'll get you to Toronto and then I'll have a whack of questions about, be it CFNY or Q107 or yeah. But it is wild those names, how they're all there at that one moment and then how they all kind of intersect

for the rest of their professional careers to a point where I, and again, I'm gonna insert myself there, this guy who was never a part of the scene at all, careers to a point where I and again I'm gonna insert myself there this guy who was never a part of the scene at all never worked a day in radio but I'll be there'll be a I'll be producing a humble and Fred podcast episode and on that episode will be humble and Fred Dan Duran will be on in the to introduce things and then our guest will be from France will be Jeff Lumbee. Like everybody will be broadcasting together today in 20 and today in 2024.

Like it is a mind blow there, but please get us, get Danny Kingsbury to Toronto because then I can start annoying the heck out of you. Okay. So in Moffat, you kept moving up. So I was six years at Chad and loved it. I met my wife in Edmonton. We've been married 43 years to summer. Robert Leonard Congrats. I also married an Edmonton woman. So we have this in common.

Chad Well, there you go. We'll have to talk about that. So the now she's not an Edmontonian, but I met her. So that's but anyhow, we had our first born there. And then I got a job in Winnipeg as a program director. My first job as a program director in there. And then I got a job in Winnipeg as a program director. My first job as a program director in 1985. Can I read a note? I mentioned I'll interject with notes as they're appropriate, but this note came in from a fellow FOTM because Danny, you're now an FOTM, a friend of Toronto Mike. So everyone but Dandaran is in this club now. Okay. This note came from Sharon Taylor. Okay.

She writes, Danny has had a pretty incredible career. He worked across the hall from me in Winnipeg and in Toronto. I was the GM to his PD at Kiss, which we'll get to later when you get to Toronto. He's solid. So that note comes in from Sharon Taylor. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Listen, I got a lot of time for Sharon, too, for all the same reasons. Like, she's... I always thought she was an amazing... You know, she's talented, aggressive, knew lots of people, really, you know, wanted to get stuff done. And I respect her so much because I look back now and it's like, oh my god. What was it like being a woman in radio back then and I mean when I say back then I mean even 2000 like it was good like it wasn't

It wasn't and I'm not I'm not doing the You know it it was just not It was not great, you know, like like there not, it was not great. You know, like there were not many women in the business and there were not, you know, and the ones that were, like I'm sure didn't have it easy, you know, like, but Sharon was one of those because she was good and because she was not timid,

she said what she meant and was thinking. So she got, you know, I think she, you know, she was maybe disrespected by people because of that, but I only respected her. I thought she was great. So yeah, and so yeah, she was there at CKY, did great promotions there. And when I went to Stiddy, I mean,

this is kind of where it started for me. I kind of call myself kind of the cleanup guy. Like I'm trying to think of a character, you know, in a series of something, you know, where. So when I went to City, Moffat, City was a super heavy rock and roll station. Bro Jake had left, he was there and then he moved to go to Halifax, I think, and then moved from Halifax to Toronto at 2107. Shout out to John Gallagher. Yeah. Okay, we'll get to him later. Yeah, exactly.

So when I got there, I was like this music loving kind of, you know, not a top 40 guy, but just a music loving guy, right? I wasn't a rock guy. I wasn't a disco guy. I wasn't an AC. I wasn't a country guy. I just liked radio. I liked all kinds of music. And so the company absolutely wanted Stidi. They wanted to reposition it. And it was just really at the time when CHUM-FM went from sort of their... AOR would not be fair, but they were very... They were a little more eclectic, right? Like CHUM-FM was kind of, you know, maybe what inspired Mars to, you know, to do some things with CF and Lye.

Maybe, I don't but anyhow they turned into a kind of a combination right like the hot AC would be the would be the word but Roger Rick and Marilyn were there and so they evolved the station and I think you know Moffat and many other and by the way shot right up you know in the ratings right so I think Moffat had some thoughts about you know we could probably mainstream, right? So I think Moffat had some thoughts about, you know, we could probably mainstream city a little bit and make it more successful than it was.

So who gets to go in there and do that? Well, it's me. Oh, Graham, my first BD job. I was like, what's, 27 years old, 26 years old. And again, just didn't know shit from Shinola, right? 27 years old, 26 years old. And again, just didn't know shit from Shinola, right? It was just one of those things where I go in there and I was working for a guy named Roy Hennessy and then Jim McLaughlin was the running Moffat and Chuck McCoy was the national

PD. So Chuck, you know, Chuck's always been my guy as well. You well. He did so much for me in my career. But they figured, and I remember going back and saying, I really didn't know what I was doing back there. They're like, yeah, that's what we brought you there. Because within the first two weeks, you'd be like, oh no, we can't do this because they've been doing it like this for three years, right? We knew you'd go in, we'd do the plan and you would execute it. All right, sounds good to me.

So we had some really good success in the first year and a half of that and that's when I hired Lumbee to do the morning show in Winnipeg. So he was that city FM there and he hired him from LA. He was, he was in a, um, adult entertainment facility doing disc jockey work there, introducing adult entertainers. And yeah. And he was, he was listening to Rick D's and kiss up and, and all those LA radio stations. So he got his head filled with a lot of really cool ideas

and he had lots of energy. And this was my first PD job so I could hire him and like, okay, yeah, that's great. And actually I was on the morning show with him for about a year. So it was myself, Lumbee and guy named Terry Claussen. And it was a pretty good show. I really have to admit, I was kind of the,

I was the pilot and those guys were the real talent, but I could, you know, I could kind of keep it moving. And so meet him, meet him there and it's all great now. So here's the, here's the get ready for the first ass kick in your life. Right. And it really was for me, it was literally so it, so the city was, you know, there was a portion of the city of Winnipeg was really pissed off at city because to see is it going to sound familiar where we're going know, there was a portion of the city of Winnipeg was really pissed off at city because to see if it's going to sound familiar, where are we going? So there was a core audience that really, you know, really did want to blaze, you know, 24-7 on that station.

And the company's like, but I don't think, you know, we can rock, but let's don't. And this is what I mean now, getting into the nuance of music. I mean, you know, I get, I get slaughtered in those conversations because I don't really, I don't really want to go there and I'm not really that interested. I just know, I know I like rock music. I like heavy rock music. I like Metallica, but I also like Pavarotti. You know what I mean? So it's just, just to kind of get you in my head a little bit for music. I'm not, you know, I was born and raised and I did this and I've got card access. What you're telling us is you're no Ivor Hamilton. That's what you're telling us. Bingo or Alan Cross, right? I mean, of course, you know,

there were enough music hall about it. Ivor isn't fair because I never worked with him, but I worked with enough people who knew a ton about music. It's like, no, I don't. By the way, Alan comes from Winnipeg as well. He does. And he was there when I was there. So he was a Q 94. Right. The sound of feeling good. Q 94. Hi, this is Alan Cross. And just yesterday, just to bring it all full circle, I was hanging out with Robbie J. Rob Johnston yesterday at the chorus key building just for a tour.

I just felt just walking around, taking pictures and checking it out, like for because I was going on a bike ride anyway so I went to sugar beach to do that and of course uh I think I put on Instagram the picture I said technical production by Robbie J like and everybody who reads that hears it in Alan's voice so right there right right so um the the city kind of you know was pissed off at of the city for what we did to it. So we tried to, and even at the time, I think back about this word, even though we were still playing rock music, we were playing contemporary music as well, but it had to cross-pollinate, do you remember the R&R magazine? Not really no. It was called it's called Radio and Records so it had to cross-pollinate like if a song and

by the way music was changing then right in the mid 80s it was definitely starting to change so on the top 40 chart there would be bands like Springsteen and Tears for Fears and Cutting Through and all that stuff but they would also be they would also be on the rock charts, right? So it was really like, oh, look at this crossover. So I think that was the plan was to play the crossover rock music, right? So yes, it's on the rock charts, but it's also popular. You know, it's a Billboard hit.

And you know, we can get into regs which is another reason why you know I went to CF and why I'm sure but so we had to comply back then so there was just a lot of a lot Of different regs. So anyhow, we put the station together. It's a lot more contemporary It's a lot more acceptable and the ratings went way up I mean we we broke two hundred thousand to you know after our first year, which is big in Winnipeg. Right. And everything was great, except Webcom at the time, which was WIC, they're like, well, there's a big hole now for rock music. And so we're going to turn rock.

But we, I say the collective we, we're like, well, the CRTC regulations only licensed one rock station in Winnipeg. So they may want to go rock, but they can't. Whoops. Yes, they did. Now, now they had eight, eight, eight or ten years of regulatory grief for doing that. Right. But I credit that station for kind of changing the group one, group two, group three, group four regulations, or at least spearheading

it. So they turned rock, not heavy rock like Citi was, but they played really good rock. I mean, it was a really Tom McGorn was the music director and they were really starting to get some, you know, they're playing some plot like a lot of classic rock and some current rock as long as it's fit. And so they were getting, we're like, I don't think they can do that. Like they're out of compliance. So and then all of a sudden brother Jake comes back to do mornings. Okay. So basically that was, I mean, that was a flood jammer, right?

So I mean, you know, we went from these numbers aren't exact, but they're going to be good enough for comparative purposes. So let's say Titi when I got there was a five, it went to a 10 share. And then, you know, what were they? C-K-I-S was a three and they went to nine and Citi goes back to a five. So just think about that, right? We just got our asses kicked. And it's like, okay, well now the company, a couple of things we can do. So in this part, it's fine.

It's okay. So this was a good plan. It was working until it didn't. Now, what are we going to do? So, I think that's the key, right? Okay. So now what? What are we going to do? So, we decide on the corporate side, the Moffitt side, which was great. But we'll put the pressure on them at the CRTC level. And honestly, the company won that battle. The CRTC said, yes, you guys are out of compliance. And honestly, the company won that battle. The CRTC said, yes, you guys are out of compliance. As I said, they went for years in regulatory hell. Like honestly, it was just, we could do another podcast

on the whole thing about whether or not the Beatles, Twist and Shout was a group one or a group two record. Right? So anyhow, so they got caught there and then they hired a guy in town called, his radio name was Lamont Hollywood and Todd Fryfogle was his name and his brother, Gord Fryfogle was in the marketplace.

So we decided, okay, they're kicking our ass but we're also going to hammer them from a regulatory perspective. Then hire Lamont Hollywood. Like, why did Lamont cross the road? Did the promotion? She comes over, does afternoon drive, and we play rock music again. Again, not all welding music, but tons of classic rock. It was definitely, there was no more Starship, if you will, we built the city. It was all Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Deep Purple, really familiar, good rock music.

Bring LeMond Hollywood over, and wouldn't you know. So we went from a five to an 11, and went from a you know 10 to a 3 again and okay life's good again everything's fantastic so that was that was four years I've just you know okay condensed at the 10 minutes that's okay because I got to get you to see if and why because then I would'll leave several hours with you. Okay, awesome. So I was rewarded with going to an 11 share on Citi with a pink slip from one of my buddies. By the way, it's the first time ever I got the gate. I'm like, oh my God, this is great.

Now I have a kid. I'm like, oh my god, this is, now I have a kid, I have a, oh, this is really bizarre. And so I was out of work. And then there was a circuit, but I was out of work, but I had kind of a decent set of connections, people, and they flew me in for the CFNY job, which was open. So this was February 89 when I was out of city. And then Jim Fonger, Bill Hutton, and Doug Pringle fly me into Toronto. And I was flying in there.

I was just like, oh, boy, this is, I'm not in Lloyd Minster anymore, right? Right. So the exact same thing. I mean, I didn't really, honestly, I didn't really know much to the history of CF and why. I would read about it in RPM or, you know, the record, you know, whatever. And I sort of knew what was going on and I knew that companies were now collapsing

or consolidating and trying to buy different stations. So I was aware of that. But they fly me in and they were very great. I mean, they were just like, look at it. You're a great guy. You're a great program director. There's nothing. And there was no reason that I got the gig except for probably the guy. But so lo and behold, I get the gig. And there's a great story that they flew me in for an interview, spent the day there and then overnight, and then they flew me back about two weeks later

for a final interview, and it was Friday Friday afternoon and I have my final interview and then I walk out into the uh it was at Selkirk building and I walk out and Greg Simpson's in the lobby. I don't know if you know if you know him or like he's since past but he's there and he was at FM 96 in London and I didn't know him but so he was in for his he goes in for the last interview I was the second last interview and then I get the call by the time I got home you know flying home from Toronto there was a call my wife said oh you got a phone call from Toronto called and they said you want the job I said yes hang on one second you want to move to Toronto no me neither Me neither, but we'll take it.

Yes, that'll be great. Take the job. So that was the, I ended up starting there early April. So, um, yeah, the, and I think Scott posted something about, about when I got that job. I think he's like, I was actually there till the next February. So, um, even though, um, a claim hunter took it over in September, I was actually there till the next February. So even though McClain Hunter took it over in September, I was still there. So why did I get that job? Well, let me, let me, okay. So let me just before you dive in there, just to give some context. So

at this, it sounds like you're not too familiar. You have a little idea of what was going on when David Marsden was the PD and what CFY, the of radio was all about but then of course when Marsden leaves many will argue that's when the spirit of radio you know departs if you will but then Don Burns I believe was the program director after if I have it right and then there's that gap where there's no one there and you come in to fill that void but there's what Scott and people who are there Alan Cross Scott Turner. They all talk about the mistake of 88 this is the the way they call it where They go kind of a top 40 and I guess so when you show up at CFM wide It's like can you explain like it's a hybrid. It's like you're playing

some like what I would classical like some cure and It to pesh motor and New Order kind of old stuff. But you're absolutely playing songs from the top 40, like, I don't know, Phil Collins and Madonna. And what is that what's going on when you arrive? Yeah, pretty much. And I would say that that Doug Pringle had a really big say in where that was going. And that's why he wanted someone to execute it, right? Because Doug, you know, he was a shown guy.

And, you know, if you say, you know, you would be so inaccurate. He said, oh, Doug Pringle didn't know what was going on. Yeah, that guy knows. That guy's brilliant. Right. And he knew that, you know, he knew there was going to be a problem with this, right? In terms of the core, right? But, but he also said, you know, if we can do this, Toronto is a big market, you know, big, big revenue. Doesn't take much to, you know, increase your sales and your popularity and make the station more successful. So yeah, when I got there, I thought station sounded good, to be honest. I mean, I thought station sounded good to be honest.

I mean, I didn't have anything to compare to, right. But there were, you know, there were tunes, you know, everything from, you know, circular impressions, you know, and I'm just like, oh, these are, these are kind of cool songs. I've never, I've never really like it was playing songs that were cool. I didn't really go, what the hell is this? This is just garbage. But, but yeah. And, but it was also trying to, and I, and I do buy it to this day. that were cool. I didn't really go, what the hell is this? This is just garbage. But yeah,

but it was also trying to, and I do buy it to this day that there were advocates of exposing new music because CFPR and Chung, I guess, would have been the only two stations, you know, Q107 would have played new rock. Yeah, they were playing Guns N' Roses. Yeah, and stuff like that. Sure. Yeah. So there was no other station in town that was playing new music, per se.

You know, CFTR would be, but it would only be top 40 and Chum A.M. Same. So I did think that was an interesting concept. And the regulations, you know, forced you to play non-hit music. So if you're going to play non-hit music, then why not expose an audience to, you know, some of this alternative, if you will. There wasn't even really an alternative chart back then, really, per se. So, and then play it with popular music that find effect.

And this is where we get into some subjectivity for sure. Sure. You know, and when you're playing Van Halen on CFNY, Yeah. and you, you know, the cult would have said, but you know, some of these staple AOR bands and staple, you know, top 40 bands, if you will. Yeah, I mean, literally that was,

if you want to talk about dropping a turd in the bathtub, right? Like that's, and when you think about it, that's exactly what happened, right? The bath was nice and warm and comfortable. Somebody came in and just, here, take this. And you know, a little went a long way negative, right? So you could tell that that was,

and to this day, I would tell you a format like that, probably it could have been the core of what Jack became. You know what I mean? Like it's classic hits that goes from Poco to Van Halen to Madonna to just playing people's record collections, right? So I think that that was really, that was the plan. And I got there to execute it because they knew I was good technical program director,

right? Like I would make sure that stations in compliance really needed to be in compliance because of the of the pending sale. And yeah, and it was, oh, that was a messy, messy, messy license. My God, that's that's still to this day the messiest license I've ever. Well, please details. As you might know, this particular podcast is hyper focused on CFNY. And now we've got you to CFNY. So I do have questions, obviously, and you will have to tell the story of how Humble and Fred is born.

But what I mean, messy compliance, like explain what you mean there. Well, it's a, it is licensed to be a college station. I always hear Humble and Fred and anybody else talk about how it was only about music and the more obscure the better. And it was kind of licensed for that. Like it had what's called a distinct selections clause and I guess maybe people should know just quite quickly that every FM station in Canada was heavily content

regulated. So the content regulations were different categories of audio. So there was spoken word and then there was surveillance, there was news. Surveillance is weather, time. News is news, not surveillance, it's news. And then there was enriched spoken word which was not surveillance, not news, enriched spoken word was something you'd be great at just by listening to you. It would just mean, tell us a little bit about this band, Mike, and tell us a little bit about their history.

But while you're doing that, don't tell us the time and don't tell us the temperature right now because you're going to blow it. You'll blow this mosaic segment. So it was literally second by second that every FM station was regulated. And then you got to music. So what kind of music can you play? Well, class category one was rock and soft rock. That means 70% of the music you play has to be soft rock. The other 30 can be mixed in. You can play Led Zeppelin and you can play Christopher Cross. It's your call.

But 70% of your music needs to be soft rock as defined by the charts. Well, I was going to ask how you define that. Like, Stairway to Heaven, for example, is that soft rock or hard rock? What's going on there? These hybrid songs. See, I love that. I love that. That would absolutely be considered only category two, which is hard rock. And you want to know why? Because it's less about the substance and the breakout of the song, the deconstruction of the song and more about what chart did it appear on. Wow. OK, I'm learning. This is awesome. OK. Yeah, it's very it was very, it was very complex,

to be brutally honest. So and in trust me, you do not want to be out of compliance. I mean, that could have it could have spoiled that deal. Right. And who was buying exactly where we is it McLean Hunter? Like who's buying this station at this? Yeah, McLean McLean Hunter was yeah. Buying it from Selkirk. So yeah, and again, I don't know if it was scuttled, the deal, but it certainly was said, you know, we're going to wait one year. We're going to see if you guys can get your shit together and get it in compliance because the PRTC does not do anything. I know you're out of compliance, but that's okay.

All you need to, you know, like we're sure you'll get it fixed. Like they don't operate that way. They don't renew your license like that. They, they don't take your word for anything. Completely different mindset, right? So of, you know, government regulatory, particularly when it comes to content. So, so it had all of these rules that have something called a 900 song, like a distinct song rule, something called a 900 song, like a distinct song rule, which means that you have to play 900 distinct titles. So I would tell you right now, I'm just going to throw a kith in Toronto

or any other CHR station. They probably play 150 distinct titles. Now they spin 1500 or 1600 or 1700 records a week, but 150 of them are distinct. So that's a sneak to the 70 repeats a week. Right. Right. So CFNY had to play 900 distinct. I think it was even a little bit more. And most FM's back then were 700, which was insane. It's like, Oh my God, 700 distinct selections. That's like oh my god 700 distinct selections that's crazy. And then there was something called the repeat factor so you couldn't play a song anymore than uh I think was 10 I think it was 10 times 10 10 times a week and then the you know it was down to a point where you sharpen the pencil because the first spin wasn't a repeat. Right?

So you could play it once and then you could play it ten more times. So that rule was in place. And it was with all FMs. So if you were trying to do CHR and FM back then, good luck. Right? Couldn't do it. You just can't. You know, a 12th spin on a hot AC now is a gold song, right?

So it just doesn't never mind currents. So it had that and it had a whole bunch of category three music, which was defined as traditional jazz, traditional blues, new age music, classical music, basically music that had no place on any rock station in the country. But every rock station had a jazz show. Every rock station had a blues show. And out of those blues shows, three quarters of the music wasn't traditional. Right?

Well, that's not traditional blues, sorry. So it just went on and on. And then there was something, if you're not bored yet, so out of your broadcast weeks, 126 hours in the 6A to midnight, so half of those had to be distinct, had to be enriched. So there was a quarter hour and then there was an enriched quarter hour and that's where foreground came in. So that's like shows like Live in Toronto was considered a foreground show. As long as Scott and me didn't do the weather, didn't do traffic,

didn't do a sports score because that's surveillance, you must keep all of the spoken word content enriched. It had to be enriched spoken word. of the spoken word content enriched, it had to be enriched spoken word. So, and each station had to be 50% enriched, and most of them were about 20% had to be foreground hours. So that's why you created all these shows and, and frankly, again, maybe another podcast, that's why FM was more interesting back then, because it actually was regulated to actually have content on the air, to have people to create content and to execute content

because you had to, otherwise you wouldn't keep your license. So because of that- This is why Q107 would have a show like Barometer, for example. Right, 100%. And all of that, if you you think back all of that content Was enrichment because it was interviewing guests and it was talking about things that are enriching and then believe me there were two or three different paragraphs of

You know what defined enriched spoken word and spoken word? right, so but yeah, you're exactly right. Because each station had a commitment to a certain amount of hours of enrichment, and then foreground quarter hours, and then something called a mosaic quarter hour. So if you wanted to do a mosaic, you can go on and speak on something that's enriched and you'll get a mosaic

quarter hour. So, yeah. Now, this might be a good time for me to interject with something that came up in the Scott Turner episode. And the reason it came up in the Scott Turner episode is because Jeff Lumbee was on Humble and Fred and they were talking about it the previous, maybe that morning or the previous morning. I can't remember remember but it was very recent and this all started on Facebook because of course Scott does these on this day stuff which I quite love and this comes back to

FOTM Ivor Hamilton who when you arrive at CFNY he's gone he's now on the other side of the business pushing pushing you know bands and music and stuff. And the question comes up about the Pixies in 1989. So we had fun with this with Scott Turner. And Scott, I thought, did a pretty good job explaining your positioning. But now that you're actually here, let's resolve this once and for all. Why didn't CFNY play the Pixies back in 1989? didn't CFNY play the Pixies back in 1989? I wish I had a great answer for this. It was like, I don't know. I'm sure it was, I'm sure they didn't appear

on the AOR chart and I'm sure they didn't appear on the CHR chart. And it was like, I don't know, is it a fit or is it not a fit with what's going on? And no harm, no foul, right? Like it really wasn't the decisions like that were not more in depth like really and and i actually i mean i i believe it but i don't recall it you know what i mean it was just like oh we didn't play the pixies okay uh you know what uh

do you remember a game uh bobby gale no so he was uh he was a Shome guy. He was a you know, he was you would have really liked him. You'd have loved Bobby Gale and Ivor knows him. He's really really well known in the community. He was tragically killed you know a few years back you know coming back from a concert in Montreal. So he was an independent record guy and he just promoted everything. And he, he pick, pick up the phone. You know, you would, if he knew that you were a guy that wanted to talk music, you would have to find those, you know, two or three hours a week somewhere else. Right.

Cause he would call you and talk about everything. He talked about the Pixies for an hour with you, right? He's just that kind of guy. So, but, but just to show you what it was like, I remember he was working for Polygram as well. I don't know. I think he had a different region, maybe, maybe he was the national guy and Iver was the local guy then. I'm not sure, but I remember my first meeting with him at CFNY, he walks in the office, like, oh, I thought, cause he was servicing pity as well, right? And he said, oh, Danny, welcome to Toronto. Welcome to CFY. You're at a big station. That's very, yeah, it's just a big responsibility. You've got a lot.

You've got big shoes to fill. I said, yeah, yeah, that's right. Sounds good, Bobby. So listen, I've got to ask you, why did you did you play the hot house flowers on city? I, I said, pardon? Hey, the champ. Yeah. Why did you play the hot house? Flowers on city? I was like, Bobby, like, here's like two minutes, two minutes. We're saying hello.

And you grilling me in the hot house flowers on city. I'm just like WTFTF man, like what are you talking about? Anyhow, that was really, you know, Ivor and not as a negative, but cut from the same cloth, right? Well, it really is. If you go back to the, you know, because Ivor comes from the spirit of radio days on CFY. It was really, you know, it was obviously not enough years, but the reason there were so many loyal ears is was how eclectic and in the music and there was a people on the air really seemed to give a shit about the music. And this is actually a great segue because we got to talk about what's the morning show on CFY when you arrive in April. And

then we have to get the details on the humble and Fred creation, if you will. But those are a couple of guys where, you know, I don't I get the sense knowing humble as well as I do. And you know, the man was at my wedding is that I don't think he gives a shit what they're playing on the air. Like he's all about what they say into the mics. And I don't think he cares about the music. You know, he just doesn't. And and Fred grew to like the music on CFY in the in the 90 90s particularly, but I don't think he cares what they play. He just wants the most people listening so that they can, you know, Cliff Cohen. Oh, by the way, Cliff Cohen says hello. Oh, cool.

That's for you. So Cliff is listening right now. Great guy. Yeah, he sounds like a great guy. So he can sell spots for the most amount of money so, you know, people like Humble and Fred can, you know, make the most amount of money so you know people like Humble and Fred can you know make the most amount of their paycheck. So let's let's if you don't mind who's the morning show what is the morning show on CFOI when you arrive in April 1989 and then give us like some insight into when you had the idea that you can go to Montreal and get that morning show and then while you're doing this you have to solve a riddle that has been plaguing Toronto Mike for 12 years, which is that Humble Howard believes that you were there to get Humble Howard and Jeff

Lumbee to be the morning show on CFNY. But Jeff Lumbee thinks that you were just there to get Humble Howard. So now the mic is yours again, Danny, let's get the detail on morning show, CFNY 1989. Well, that's, that's, those are interesting questions and I'm like, my eyebrows are raising, right, because of. I'll be happy to give you the answer to that one. So when I get there, Steve Anthony was doing the morning show, but he wasn't. You know what I mean?

So he was the morning guy and and it didn't. I really don't I don't know much. You know, six months before I got there, but, you know, and again, I think that's the beauty. I think that's why they wanted me, right? It's just this guy will come in and he'll just have blinders on and, you know, not be not be an asshole, but just, you know, here's what we

wanted to get done and and he's a radio guy and he'll do it and it won't be his way or the highway and it's it wasn't like that I really truly believe that that's never been about that with me it's always about collaboration but I think he was he was he was the morning guy and I know for sure it didn't go over well like I know Steve Anthony doing it didn't go over well. Like I know Steve Anthony doing mornings didn't go over well. So I don't know if Pete and Geets were... No they're long gone by then. I think they... Yeah but however Geets was the engineer when I got there.

Right, right, right. Yeah, so he was still there. So great guy too, right? Great, great guy. So the morning show wasn't, you know what, I'm going to officially and sincerely go blank on it. It was someone, it wasn't anyone that was, you know, the morning show. So someone was filling in. Okay. So it may, it may have been, it might have been James, what was James? James baby Scott. James James got there you go. Yeah. Yeah. It might have been him. It might've been like just someone was there doing the morning show. So, and you know what, maybe, maybe, maybe even Alan did, did some, some morning show shifts. So the Steve Anthony

doesn't work out. So now there's like an interim morning spot, morning show when you get there. Right. So you're, you're part of your mandate, I suppose, is to get a permanent morning show. 100%. So that's the first thing we have to get a morning show. And I said, I think I have one. I think I know who we could get. So, um, and I, and I thought of Howard and Jeff who were doing mornings at CJM. First of all, I was like, okay, well, I've known these guys forever. Like I won't be hiring somebody who I don't know and they don't know me. I mean, everything that we say and say to each other will all be true and there won't

be any, but I thought you said the last, it would be great. So yeah, that was me to be honest. And I just said, okay, Howard and Jeff, that's what worked. We might've been humble in Jeff, maybe on CJFM. I feel like he wasn't humble in Montreal. Yeah, I think you're right. So they're doing the show and it's it's good It's going great. Their ratings are great. And you know, and most FM stations back then because of the lack of competition

If you were a decent station you did well, right like there's no So it was a good business to be in good business to be doing mornings doing mornings in Montreal Just great like they they loved, having a great time. However, Howard had bigger fish to fry. So Howard was like, nope, Toronto is good enough for me. So yeah, Jim Fonger and I drove to Montreal and we met with them, had lunch. Might have been dinner, I guess.

I remember, stayed over downtown, had a great time, and then had breakfast with them, kept yacking and yacking. And that was really more for Jim to meet them, because he didn't really know them, but I knew them. So yeah, next thing you know, it's just, bah, bah, bah, we can do this, we can do this, we can do this, we can do this, everything's great. So we're driving back feeling pretty confident.

And then, I don't know, chronology, a day later, two days later, a week later, whatever, you know, Lumbee calls and said, no, I'm out. I don't want to do it. I said, oh, okay, why? What's up? He goes, well, I just, I don't want to, I don't want to move to Toronto. I don't know about the station. It just doesn't really, because Lum I don't know about the station. It just doesn't really,

cause Lumbee actually does care about the station. So he's like, yeah, I don't know. You know, I have to, I have to have faith in it. It just doesn't seem, doesn't seem like it's going to be right for me. I said, oh, well that's too bad. And hung up the phone and then, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr, br Gary, Haru, what's up? I go, just talk to Lumbee, that's too bad.

Yeah, well listen, just because he doesn't want to come, doesn't mean I don't. I want this job. I said, oh, well, it's not a wrench in the in the gears or anything, but okay, interesting. So we talked about that and then said, well, we need a partner. And you know, there's somebody here, like Fred Patterson, pretty crazy. You know, and Fred and Darren were like, those guys to me were an oasis there, right? For me to go in. There were a lot of people.

I mean, I never felt, you know, unlike, unwanted, disrespected. I never felt that in the hallways. Like I thought the people were all great. I loved all the talent. Like I thought, you know, May Pot's like, oh my God, this woman's incredible. I really felt that way about Scott.

This guy's super talented. Liked all the talent, even Alan Cross. I mean, I don't think Alan liked me, but I don't think it was because of anything I did to him. I just, I don't think he liked what I symbolized, you know, in that time. But anyhow, Fred and Darren were just, oh my God, we can hardly wait. This is so exciting here.

We have a PD and we're going to do this and we're going to do that and we're going to do this. And we said, hey, so Fred, listen, what a partnership with this guy named Humble Howard and he's in Montreal. Oh, okay. Thanks. And Fred was doing the sports and he was doing his commentary. And so he and I fly to Montreal.

We flew instead of drove and we had lunch with Howard and those two just hit it off like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. So next thing you know, we hire them to do the morning show and then Lumbee was... He didn't want the job and he didn't want the job after. He didn't come back and say, well, I didn't know you were going to hire Howard. So, well, it was, don't get, don't put me in the middle of this. There's, I got a station to run.

I got a, I got a family to feed, you know, so do you. You're fine. You're a single guy living in Montreal. Do your thing. You're successful. You'll be great there. And there and you guys are breaking up. Sorry." And so they did.

And Lumbee stayed at Montreal, was very successful. And then I ended up hiring him in Hamilton, which is after the Y95. So Humble and Fred were born and it was just amazing. Like we were, I was already friends with Howard and you know, he was, yeah, he was super engaged. And then one of the first things we did was we buried him alive at the shopping mall. What's the mall on 427 and QE? There's well, there's Dixie Value Mall and then there's Cloverdale Mall and there's Sherway Gardens. I think it was Sherway.

Okay. Sherway, yeah. Sherway's right there. Yeah, we put this big thing together. Humble Howard's in town. He's the morning guy at CFNY and FM 102 and we're going to bury him alive for 48 hours and Darren's like, and he just loved it, right? He's like, oh my God, we're going to bury him alive for 48 hours. And Darren's like, he just love it. Right? Oh my God, we're doing promotions. This is incredible.

Right. Right. So yeah, so it was great. And everything was everything was, it was kind of the rest of history, if you will. So you know, it is interesting though, because you don't stick around very long at CF and why you're gone in February 1990. And speaking of not sticking around very long, Humble Howard himself flies the coop. I suppose your successor, Reiner Schwartz, I've heard them talk about Reiner, the late great Reiner Schwartz, who is a talent of course, but I'm not sure Howard felt comfortable with Reiner at the helm and left for CKFM and he's the first

guy to say mix 99.9 over the air. But then he, so it's just interesting to look at when you leave, Howard doesn't stick around very long, although of course he does come back and then the rest is history, if you will. Yeah, exactly. And look, I don't think, you know, him leaving wasn't a protest move for me. I mean, as I said, it's like I cannot believe, Mike, that, you know, all these years later I'm sitting here talking into an iPhone about CF and why. Like you just, the thing,

you're like, wow, that was, it was a short period of time in my 46 year career, but very impactful. I mean, incredibly impactful. And I have good feelings about that. I mean, I really, maybe I'm one of those guys where, I've been through some shit in the biz, but I forget most of it. It's kind of like childbirth, right? Where I hear it's the worst possible thing that could ever happen to a woman right and but you know two days later this is the greatest thing that

ever happened you forget all about the pain so yeah so you know and Reiner yeah Reiner okay well humble and wisdom I mean humble and Fred will tell you he was batshit crazy now that's a quote from those two gentlemen I never had the pleasure of meeting Reiner Schwartz so So though I know a lot of people were big fans of his work and shout out to Danny Elwell who sings his praises every opportunity, but they would talk about meetings where Reiner Schwartz would say, we're going to be the station that doesn't say the call letters. And then there'll be questions like, well, how will they know for those diaries? Cause this is back in the day with the diaries, you got to write in what you

live. How will they know what station they're listening to? Oh, they'll just know that this is back in the day with the diaries, you got to write in what you look, how will they know what station they're listening to? Although just know that this is the station that doesn't see the call letters. So stuff like that scared Howard away. Oh my god. Yeah. And Darren too. I mean, Darren was so Darren's last name. I feel like we're dropping this name Darren, but people are like, who are we talking about? Darren was like, right. Darren was like, and he was a promotions guy. like he's the guy he was doing before FOTM, Captain Phil Evans, I suppose. He was doing promotions. Okay. Yeah, Phil was amazing too. Yeah, Darren, brilliant. I mean, the guy's just unbelievable. He was, he again became a very good friend and, you know, anything that that station ever did, you know, he was, he was at the helm of it and anything, you know, we did you know he was he was that the helm of it and anything

You know we did a y95 he was at the helm of it and anything we did a q107 He was at the helm of it like he was he's the guy that took You know took medium into special all the time. He was just all he was always that kind of guy so Quick here's what we're gonna do. I do want to tell you all the gifts You're not receiving because you're you're not here in the basement right now and that's because you're far away. Is there no, is there no courier service? Is there? I don't know if I can, I might hold out. I know you have to come to Toronto once in a blue moon and then when I finally meet you, I'll, I'll give you some some gifts here but just before I do that. Let's get the mentions in well firstly I have to

shout out FOTM hall of famer Peter Gross who has the greatest horse racing podcast in the world it's called down the stretch Peter's gonna be here tomorrow so I can help him he's he's gonna be in court via zoom and he's gonna do it in this basement and it a long story, but it's all in Toronto Mike's archives. If you want to go back and hear his most recent appearance about how he can't get insurance for his car because he was delivering food. Anyways, there's a whole story of how he got kind of screwed over. Yeah, it's a wild story. But is it true, Mr. Kingsbury, that you are responsible for the greatest day in radio history, the day

that Peter Gross did a DJ shift on CFNY. Well, he did more than that. I was going to say, he was at CFNY. I brought him in to do sports, and he was doing sports during this interim period, I think. Yeah, he came in to do sports. And again, I didn't know this guy from Adam, right? I'm just like, wow, this guy is great.

Like who, who are you? You're bizarre. I love you. He's the best. And yeah. And so does he say that, that he also got to do a shift? Well, he talks about receiving his severance check because Billy van, he says delivered his severance check

according to Billy van from Hilarious House of Frightenstein and kind of a famous kind of a actor Yeah, the one and only the late great Billy Van yeah No, he might have been working for a courier service or something that delivered it. Ah, okay. So, what was Peter Gross? And again, he's literally going to be in this basement tomorrow, so I can kind of flesh this out with him tomorrow.

But how long did you hire him to be on the air? Yeah. Okay. Amazing. Amazing. And I guess it didn't work out so well because he's getting a severance check later that year or whatever, but maybe there's no room for him with Humble and Fred. I don't know what happened there, but.

Yeah, you know, I don't, I don't know either. And I know nothing, you know, nothing weird happened there. It was just, it just got weird. You know what I mean? Like, like when Ryan came in, it was very, you know what I mean like like when Reiner came in it was very you know God rest his soul and I ended up hiring Reiner at 640 later because I'm giving him a job that I think he could do which was like oh look how's it feel doing something that you're qualified for this is great right so okay but yeah no he was weird he was it was a head shake it was like but

you know what I always try to be part of the solution not part of the problem I hear you I hear you Okay so one more quick because a name that comes up often on the show mainly because I can't find him to get him on Toronto Mike because and I'm not the only one looking for him because of course, there's a CFY documentary Which is going to be like people can see this in the fall I believe it might even debut at TIFF or something, but it's in the can it's done I guess they're just licensing music and polishing it or whatever. But none of us can find Chris Shepherd, but, uh, is it true?

So when you arrive, is Chris Shepherd, the musical director, the music director, what's the role of Chris Shepherd when you get there? No, he's, he's, uh, he's the musical consultant. Okay. Musical consultant. Yeah. He was, he was consultant. And I mean, I just, I just, uh guy, I just freaking loved that guy, right?

He was very, same thing. He was very, very kind to me, very professional, very Danny, what do you think? Do you regret coming here? A bunch of weirdos, a bunch of happened weirdos around here. You know, like, so, um, yeah, I loved him and I, you know, went for lunch with him downstairs at the, at the Caribbean restaurants so many times. And, um, I remember the first thing chef said to me, well, one of the first thing is, yeah, so when I was, I was mixing the, uh, Ian, Ian Asbury, uhbury record in Hamilton. And I mean, the cult goes, yeah, yeah, I mixed that.

I mixed She Shall Sanctuary. I go, you did? I said, you're bullshitting me. Like a guy from Winnipeg coming, you don't know how I work with those guys all the time. So I'm just like, cool, but this guy's cool as skype. And I remember he, by the way I I don't think I get him like I you don't know you don't know where he is is what you're telling Me I do not I do not but I do I do recall him doing his shows at RPM on Friday nights Club 102

He made money doing that. Well, I mean so the way it worked worked, of course, is David Marsden begat Chris Shepard, he begat Martin Streak. Yeah, Martin was there when I was there, of course, but he was working for Darren. And he was really, I mean, not disrespectfully, he was kind of like the roadie for the roadshow. So he was in charge of the CFMY road, the FM 102 road show. So he had the big truck and with the logo on it and we had all the sound systems and all that was, that was his baby. So I know he moved into cause he DJ'd some of that stuff and then became bigger. I didn't, I don't have the same relationship or did not

have the same relationship. Martin, it wasn't bad. It was just Right. He was a, that was the famous story that Marsden tells on this show about how he was so excited. He got his license and he could drive that truck. And that was his gateway was like driving the truck for the road show. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. No, exactly. Yeah, I was I was interviewed for that for that movie or documentary coming up. So it was interesting. And that was now, I guess, maybe well over a year ago. I'd go downtown Ottawa.

And it was really weird. Two strangers, they were not unfriendly. In fact, they were the exact opposite, very, very nice people. And so I said, so I don't know how much I can tell you. And I was like, and are you sure? Are you sure? They go, oh yeah, no, for sure. You you. You know, it's like, and are you sure? Are you sure? Oh yeah, no, for sure.

You were there like, and I said, okay, so. I told a few stories about NY, talked about as many people as possible. And so it'll be interesting to see where that all turns out. And all the questions were about the Pixies, right? Of course. I admit the Pixies did not come up. It was all for sure. I can't wait to see the dog. Scott says I'm going to get to see it at a premiere or something. But in here in Toronto, but it you're kind of an important part. Even if it's for no other reason than we need to get to the humble and Fred part.

But that's where you'll come in because you can tell the story that you just kind of shared with me about, you know, bringing in humble and Fred and everything that was going on. But here, let me do this right now because I realize I, you never know how much time to carve out for a conversation, but we're just wrapping up your CF and Y term right now. We've been talking for 90 minutes, which is unbelievable. I know. So you're going to burn through the rest of your career in a half an hour, but I am

going to tell you what I will give you whenever I get to meet you in the flesh. I have a lasagna for you from Palma pasta. If you like Italian food, you can't do any better than Palma pasta. They're Mississauga and Oakville. I don't think you can get them there in Renfrew there, but you can get you are in Ontario, so you can get Great Lakes Beer at LCBOs and Great Lakes Brewery has some fresh craft beer for you. Much love to them.

I have, this is cool, I have a wireless speaker from Monaris and with that wireless speaker you can listen to Yes We Are Open, which is an award-winning podcast from Monaris hosted by Al Grego. Speaking of the western part of Canada, Al Greor went to Calgary and he went to Heritage Park Historical Village. It's one of Calgary's premier tourist attractions. It opened in 1964 with a mission to connect visitors with the history of Western Canada. So it's all coming full circle here. But he chatted with a spokesperson there and about the park's origin, how it evolved over the last 60 years. There's some great stories and they talk about

the fun attractions and the history and that history of Heritage Park is the most recent episode of Yes We Are Open, so you can subscribe to that. And the Advantage Investor from Raymond James Canada, where you can get some best practices, some tips on how to manage your financial portfolio. Even if you've got a guy, a history book I'll save for you on the history of the team. It's such an amazing history. People should listen to Adam Bunch on Toronto Mic last week talking about the history of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. But I'll be there May 12th. So listeners, come to Christie Pitts.

It's free. Come by, say hi. I'm recording live at 2 p.m. on May 12th. And last but not least, RecycleMyElectronics.ca. That's where you go if you have any old electronics, old cables, and you need to know where to drop them off to be properly recycled so the chemicals don't end up in our landfill. Danny, I'll take care of you when I finally meet you. All right, let's burn this part.

I obviously very interested in the CF and Y history, but you mentioned, you mentioned what's next? Is it Y95? Like what's the CF and Y history, but you mentioned you mentioned what's next is it why 95 like what's after CF and Y. Yeah. Okay. So let me read a note. Let me read a note. Tyler Campbell, also known as the VP of sales over here, who should sell something because he's no Cliff Cohen, if you know what I mean. But Tyler says, but who is okay. I've been, I've been trying unsuccessfully to find the rejection letter I got from Danny Kingsbury when he was program director at Y95 in Hamilton. I applied to every TV and radio station in southern Ontario after my first year of university. I got a nice stack

of rejection letters on official stationery and I wish I could find them. There's probably some interesting names on them. So that's our gateway to discuss why 95. Do you bring Lumbee to why 95? Yes, I did. This story it all connects, right? All the pieces connect. Okay, so we're not going to spend much time in that one 95. But give us a little bit about why 95. And then I have a few questions about q 107 and 640. Okay so I ended up leaving CFNY and then Don Schaefer called me and said I've got a buddy up in Hamilton, Don Lucy, who's looking for somebody out there and I said we were living in Brampton at the time and I said oh geez I don't know if I'm you know I became a Toronto guy I don't know I'm ready for Hamilton you know after Toronto like half kidding but so I said yeah no I'd be Oh geez, I don't know if I'm, you know, I became a Toronto guy. I don't know if I'm ready for animals, you know, after Toronto, like, I'm kidding.

But so I said, yeah, no, I'd be happy to. So I went and I met a guy named Don Lucy. It's just, I don't know. He's on a pedestal for me, but so we hit it off. He hires me at CKDS FM 95.3 and it was, um, soft AC. And so we gave that a bit of a go. Shafes thought that that station could be pumped up a little bit. You know, so this is the opposite, right? This is the soft AC. Can we turn it a little, I'll turn the volume up a little bit.

Not turn it into a rock station, but so we did that and then all of a sudden the regs changed. Not all of a sudden, but the regs changed and all of that category one, category two, category three, category four was so any FM station in the country could do whatever format they wanted. So Darren was the promo guy there. He left CF and Y to come up to Hamilton and Lumbee was the morning person and then a couple of other you know really really good talents Jeremy Smith was there and so we had a pretty good AC station going but then we're like and that signals incredible so I remember walking into Don's office okay what Okay, what if we became Steel95? What's that? I go, Steel95 would be a rock stage.

Great. And he's like, yeah, that sounds pretty good. And all of a sudden I'm like, I don't know, maybe it's too blue collar. So, well, let's keep it simple. Let's just go rock and call ourselves Y95. Who cares? And we're owned by Westcom, so there's Q107,

and then there'll be a Y95. He's like, sounds good. So he tells Shafe and everybody else that we're gonna go rock, and they're just like, oh my god, you're insane, you can't do that, you can't. So we did, so literally change the station to Classic Rock. And I would, I'd say, I don't know, everybody says this, but we were, we were certainly right up there for one of the first true Classic Rock stations.

Now in 1991, when it happened, because we did a year of AC, 1991 when it happened, remember there was nothing newer than 91, right? So Closet Rock was 91 and older. See, I think about those days too. I go, oh yeah, we didn't play in the 90s because it started in 91. But anyhow, so we signed the station on in Hamilton, big signal, I mean one of the best signals in the Golden Horseshoe, and deep pockets from Wick. Mike, remember I said about one of my happiest days going to Chad?

Well, the happiest days ever were Y95. I mean that thing just, I mean it just exploded. Now you know, was it a brilliant soul, found the tiniest little hole and exposed it. No, we're in Hamilton. There's no rock station and we've got a big signal and you know 50% of the tuning in Toronto and in Hamilton comes from Toronto and hits FM and St. Catharines like let's repatriate some hours. And right now I just, I think that would be yes when I hear that story. But yeah, let's repatriate some hours. And right now I just, I think that'd be yes

when I hear that story, but yeah, let's repatriate some hours back to Hamilton. We'll make some money. So yeah, I mean, that thing took off and within like a year later, like a year later, we had 427,000 Q, which was the third largest rock station west of, I think it was bigger than Vancouver. So it was Q107, Sturm and Y95.

And it was just breaking rocket ship. Everybody who worked there loved it. I mean, I can't, what was really great about my time there was that it was so different from CFNY, and not because I hated CFNY, I did not. It was just so, everybody was on site. Engineers run, Darren builds his door down in the lobby of the station and we sell merchandise out of there.

He drives to Woodstock and gets Woodstock rocks and puts logos on them like we did promotions promotions promotions promotions Music was great. Great. Great. Great. Signal was fantastic. Everything was great. So, I mean it just it just was a rocket ship There's no question. Hey, is Mike Richard show up? Yeah, yep, he does yeah with with mr. Loomba. So Okay, and that guy's a cook to good friend a good friend of the show good good FOTN Mike Richards Yeah, I mean love the guy. He's those two Nobody nobody to this day could make me

You know can give me tears of laughter when those two are together They you know, they start doing their voices. They're anywhere from Danny Gallivan to you know I mean just so funny together right the late great Bob Cole yeah you know the uh the younger the rest of the yeah Victor Newman plus he was you know he was just funny guy to begin with so yeah yeah they were they were together there and so how I got to Q. Okay so you're already in the WIC family there is it just we need you back in the big smoke you're good at this? You know it was one of those things were things went awry in Toronto a little bit like I still

don't really know what happened there but Don Schaeffer was the president and general manager and a couple of other people. Christopher Grossman was the sales manager and so they had left the station. And so Don, Lucy and this I think is really one of the first ever that happens all the time. Now, you know, he said to Ted, yes, he was president. Why don't you know, I can I can run both markets. Said, but I would want Danny in Toronto. For Q and 640 and in the same thing,

it was the time when Q was like, so, you know, Jake, Jake was going to Winnipeg and Derringer was going to Shulme. And so who gets to go in there again? And like, oh my God, take an heritage station and change it. So it was fine. It was not a complaint just the way it was. So I ended up getting started at Q there and I was doing Y95 and Q for. Uh, let me, let me tell, maybe six months.

And the reason I went just back to Toronto full time was because 680 signed off the air to go news. Right. And they went a bit early. And I know this because I work at Rogers. They went early because they were sure that 640 was going to go news. And I remember Sandy Sanderson and Tony Binder said, well, no, no, we weren't, we weren't,

but I'm glad that you did it. And we were really happy to, when 680 signed off because that left 640, which was floundering, right? It was AM 640, the beat of Toronto, a second top 40 in the marketplace. It was, it wasn't really doing anything. So they, they fired Jesse and Gene, they fired Tarzan and Dan. And so that day, Don said, oh, okay, you have to do six 40. That was nicer than that. But, you know, would you do both those Toronto stations and,

and then we hired somebody else for Y95. I said, okay. So I, I never, I didn't live to regret that, but it would have been, life would have been a lot easier just staying in Hamilton. But anyhow, it was all good. So we lived in Burlington at the time, so it was easy to commute. So it was takeover Q, takeover 640 and Q was, yeah, imagine like Jake's moving to Winnipeg. And that was really, Wick was weird that way, where all of a sudden, well, first of all,

we signed on as a classic rock station in Hamilton when Toronto was there. But we didn't think of it that way. It's like, no, we're not your competition. You're in Toronto, we're in Hamilton. It's all good. And then Jake moves to Winnipeg. And then, yeah, Derringer wanted the morning show

and I remember interviewing him for it and we're literally like, yeah, okay, man, you're the guy, like, what's, you know, take your yellow pad and write down what you want and what you did and there's always funny stories of that. I won't get into too much, but there's a couple of little funny things that goes all the big demands and the phone and the cell phone.

Well, all this money and get your own cell phone. Anyway, so we're literally like, yeah, listen, of course, you'd be the guy. But next thing you know, no, I'm going to Montreal. I'm going to I'm going to do talk radio in Montreal. OK, so no morning show, no drive show. And doesn't he go to the fan first or am I getting it like, doesn't he go to the fan and then Montreal or- No, I think he went to Montreal.

Okay, okay. I'm just wondering where that where because he was the morning show on the fan 590 and I'm talking about- Yeah, he came back and it was- Okay. Yeah, he came back and it was talk show, talk show, you get like that, that was, that move to do talk radio was the reason he became so successful in my opinion, because he learned how to talk on the radio and not just say, here's Led Zeppelin and here's, right. Here's another dick joke. It's just, he learned how to communicate.

Well, he, he honed his craft. I mean, he knew how to do it. He always had the brains for it, of course, but he really honed his craft and talk radio. And then obviously, it evolved into into why he became so successful. So, oh, yeah, nobody, nobody argues that against John Derringer being a great broadcaster. It's other aspects that people will will content. Yeah, I mean, it's unfortunate how everything kind of turned out there. But yeah, so I was there. And then next thing you know, we've got 6.40 a.m. and hired Jesse and Gene.

Yeah. And money was no object. Like in those days, it's not like they got, you know, it wasn't like a million dollar deal, but they got paid well. And they got a big bonus, right? As a pay, if you get us big ratings, we'll give you a big bonus. And I remember, I remember taking them for lunch and giving them the bonus at lunch. I was like, this is cool. This is really, this is fun.

So congrats. Thanks guys. Everything's fantastic. And Tarzan was great in the afternoon and he, you know, he did well and yeah. And that station again, went from a one share to a five share. And then as it turns out, with Scruff came in to do the morning show at Q. And Joey Vendetta did drive at Q.

And in the first, again, year and a half, really successful, everything kind of skyrocketed again. And then we had 640. So it was really big, big times. And then we wanted to kind of keep things going. So we got 640 into talk. Toxic 40. Yeah, that's right. So we did that and you know Bill Carroll was doing Jane Houghton was on stage, Shelley Clink, you know, Sujo Hansen, you know, so like we had lots of really good talent. That's the foundation we brought. Oh and by the way

Marsha, Marsha Liederman who's now like a Globe and Mail feature columnist and you know they did a show in the afternoon. So it was good. I mean, Gene Vilitis had that reunion with Jane Hodden. That's right. That's right. So yeah.

And again, it was good. But again, you're going up against CFRB and you're going up against- No, my understanding is no ratings, right? I mean, you know, you've had great successes, but when they kind of, when WIC tells you you're doing this talk 640, you're only human, like, I understand it not a success is what I understand. I think that I think that's right. And to be fair, you know, you I think because WIC

had successful PKNW in Vancouver, they said, well, we should have one of those in Toronto. So let's make that happen. Well, you forget that CK&W has been doing the same format for 75 years. It's the CFRB, right? So yeah, I think it's easy to be in any other market and arm share and say, oh, CFRB doesn't sound that good and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, I want to see if our B I don't know. We're beating those guys.

You know what I mean? So, so yeah, I mean, the station, the station ended up with a one share and. And because it's news talk, frankly, it's a little more, um, attractive to advertisers. So I, I, you know, don't know if we've kept the lights on as they say with it, but in those days that, you know, not that that didn we kept the lights on as they say with it, but in those days that, you know, not that that didn't matter, but there was so much money in Toronto that it's not like if you were, you know, breaking even or losing a bit, but it was that big of a deal given the circumstances. So,

so and then we, then we decided to get the Leafs on cue, which was, which was again, what a super fun project that was. But can I ask you about that? So I mentioned I was at Chorus Key yesterday with Rob Johnston, and they have a room in there. As you might know, there's a there's a room in there which is called the home of the Leafs meeting room. That's the name of this thing. I took a couple of photos, you can see them on Toronto Mike.com if you want to see them right now. That's cool. Yeah, it's called Home of the Leafs meeting room. Yeah, so it was funny because we ended up getting the Leafs

and Don had a contact at Molson and then Molson was like, you would be interested in the Leafs because their radio deal was up. He said, yeah, we'd be interested. And they're like, why? So boss, rock and roll, beer, hockey, it's the Leafs. And this is me, the oiler guy, right? I'm like, hey, if there's any, there's any team that will be successful no matter what they do, it's the Leafs. So we, yeah, we

ended up negotiating a deal there. And I'm, you know, like my name's on that contract, which is kind of cool. But that's a bold move to move it to FM, right? Because, you know, typically, it's an AM property, the Maple Leafs. Oh, there was one other station in Pittsburgh was doing the penguins on FM, right? That we knew of. So, yeah. So we knew, yeah, it was a riff for sure because, you know, it's a first in Canada and, you know, Heritage Station and all of that. But, you know, the truth is there were ulterior motives, if I'm being honest. So we did get it.

And then Jake comes back to do mornings. Scruff goes to Winnipeg. Jake comes back. And so Darren, all right, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna give away a house. It's gonna be the house that Q Hockey built. And we're gonna, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So we give away another house out in Clarington.

And big promotion and Joe Bowen's doing hockey. I mean, life's, you know, Bruce Haney's got Rock Radio Network going. I mean, life's just great. Boogieing along. And then by the spring, the ratings weren't that great on it. Like they heard the ratings on Q. So we're like, okay, well, you know what, we kind of wanted them for 640 anyhow. So here's the, so we ended up moving them over there and they're still there, right? Like after, after all this time. So they're not there anymore, right? They're shared by the MLSC is owned by Rogers and Bell. So it's like 590 and 1050 take turns basically. and Bell. So it's like 590 and 1050 take turns basically. Yes. But Holy Mackinac, Joe Bowen's still there. Great Lakes has a Holy Mackinac logger they're selling right now. So.

Joe Bowen, I still have his business card that he gave me when I had lunch with him coming over and he was like, I'd sure love to come over. But sure love to have you Joe. That'd be amazing. So yeah, great guy. So yeah, so that was all good. And then this was about 96. So is there maybe five years? Were you there for the Howard Stern experiment there on? No, no, that happened after I left. Okay. But did you have to clear the track for it? Like, are you part of the, did you know that was the plan?

No. Okay. Just kidding. part of the, did you know that was the plan? No. Okay. Just, you know, I think, uh, I think that was Pat Cardinal's plan. And, um, so Jesse and Jean were doing mornings at Q when I left and they did not get along with the, my replacement at all. So, and there's a lot of shock by this. Yeah. I'm shocked.

So anyhow, so they ended up out and then Pat had the idea to bring Stern in, which again, it was pretty outrageous, but I mean, it obviously worked. And then obviously Derringer went in after Stern. So I had gone to Kiss Country. Okay. So before Kiss, that's where you're back with Sharon Taylor. That's right. Okay.

So quick question. She was the GM. Yeah. Right. And she called me up one day and said, do you want to get out of all the chaos? I said, well, it's kind of chaos, but you know, this company, Rolco, they're pretty amazing. They're not WIC. They're not publicly traded. It's private. And I knew the Rawlansons certainly by reputation. And guess who also worked for that company? Doug Pringle. So he was, you know, he, he liked me for sure, particularly liked about, you know, the CFNY experiment

and thought I did well there. And so anyhow, I ended up taking that job and yeah, I'm looking, it was, it was great. I have no regret, you know, no regrets. I'm sure that I might have stayed at Q. My decision probably would have been made for me at some point, but again, no regrets. And I learned a lot and learning, working for Rolco was pretty cool. I mean, I know people call that company a bit bizarre, but when you work for the guy who signs your check, it's pretty great. Amazing. It's pretty great.

All right. So a little mop up on the wick before, because I want to shout out, of course, my friend and client, Larry Fedorik, who I believe could be heard on the air at Kiss as well. He was there when I got there, yeah? Yeah, so shout out to him. Cliff Jackie and Larry F. Right, right. They did the ads with Shania Twain, as I recall. That's true.

It's a fun story from Larry about that, okay. But you can hear that on his podcast. Now, I found it It's a fun story from Larry about that. Okay, but you can hear that on his podcast. Now, I found it interesting as a listener that, you know, you kind of had this rotation and some of this is before your time and then some during your time, but you know, Scruff Connors, you mentioned, Brother Jake, Jesse and Gene, they kind of like do multiple rounds of morning shows on cue. It was kind of a revolving door, but all the while, my dear friend, John Gallagher is just kind of hanging out there. And I think that's kind of interesting in retrospect. Yeah, I think it was too. And again, John, like very, I mean, he's a real character. I had nothing but time for him. I mean, I really, I feel with John and

I feel it today. I don't know if anybody had Toronto, you know, by the, by the ghoulies the way he did. Right. I mean, he was in his peak. I mean, he was doing, you know, the Q morning zoo and the morning show and was doing late night sports on city. Yeah. So if you want to talk about. This guy's got it covered. This guy's building his brand. He's building his reputation now. Would that be hard? Yeah.

No, but he did snort a lot of coke. Yeah. I was, I was going to say that. He had it. He had, he had it by the. He was like, this guy's got, this guy's in control of his career by the music. This guy's got this guy's in control of his career, right? Like, this guy's gonna and where does he make the time to bed the the 600 consent to

consenting adults, you know, which he has bragged about on the Gallagher and grow Save the World podcast, I was lucky enough. So I don't know. I didn't I wasn't that close to all right. So shout out to john Gallagher, but one more name Oh yeah, I don't know. I wasn't that close to him. All right, so shout out to John Gallagher, but one more name from the WIC era that I got a question about. It's Gary Spaceman Bell. One of the, oh, you know, he's no longer with us.

Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. But he's one of the weirder characters of that era. And he comes in from CFTR, he's like a top 40 DJ. And then of course he leaves in great controversy for some repeating some anti-Semitic tropes on the air, some conspiracies, etc. But just what's the question exactly? While I may be in the minority for enjoying the oddball format at the time on reflection, it didn't make much sense.

How much was that a holdover of the foreground programming requirement from the mid-90s? So essentially, maybe tell us a little bit about the role of Gary Spaceman Bell and that show, that conspiracy type show that he was hosting. I'm trying to remember the name of it. I think he's... That's a good question.. I'm not lost me a little bit with the foreground because obviously AM had nothing to do with foreground. Yeah, it might be just a Neil. That question came from Neil. He might just not have known that foreground.

OK, OK. Yeah. I mean, I didn't because it was an overnight show. I didn't know there were a lot of guys like Gary who I worked with. You know, Deanna Nason was one that were, you know, Kenny, the hit man, a lot of these, these jocks that were around that were, you know, they were, I had great respect for them, like they were really solid radio people, you know what I mean? Like they really, um, I said, I said to people that the one, here's the difference in Toronto is that everybody, no matter whether you're saying,

good morning, Q107, or you're doing an all night show, or you're producing overnights with Andy Frost, no matter who you are, no matter what position you are, you're good at it, you're kind of like the top of the game. So everybody, there were no no right out of college you know into a big world just didn't happen that way so so because of that I was like you know I got to work with a lot of people that you know had had some resumes and had some talent and maybe also had some bad luck maybe had a couple of bad breaks along the way right

so so I always tried to find a place for everybody like kind of a you know you know, how can you help? Where would you fit in best? But yeah, I mean, I didn't have a ton of interaction with Space Fan, but yeah, he was quite a character. I remember having good conversations with him and literally like, hey, live it up. Do your thing, man. We're doing talk radio, have fun. Fascinating characters. I love the characters like, like the Peter Grosses and the John Gallagher is like these are all the characters I completely adore actually. But okay, although I never did met Gary Bell and again, you know, some of those conspiracy theories realm into places which are unacceptable and that's for him. So I'm not trying to make light of that

at all. Of course, but no, no. So post kiss, you're a Rogers guy. Is that correct? Well, but I wasn't a kiss when Rogers bought kiss. Right. So that's how I'm not on that crazy night with the restaurant night, which I know the truth. So, can you tell us that? Because I believe it's Mike, I want to say, is it Mike, whose story, is it Lumbee's story? I mean, no, please. Yeah, both of them.

Yeah, Lumbee and Richards, both of them have the, now they're not wrong, but they embellish, right? Like every time there's a new layer on the tree, right? Every time I hear that story, I'm like, how come there's a new ring on that tree? Like it was what it was. Let's get the real, just give us that real story. And again, then we'll get you to retirement very quickly. Cause I just saw it hit the two hour mark. So what we can be assured of is that Fred Patterson will not listen to this episode because he won't he tells me he won't listen to anything that's like over 45 minutes. So please what happened that day that night? Okay, so I knew I knew a couple of days.

So the regs changed and stations were allowed to buy another station. Right. So so we kind of knew that there was going to be some things happening. We kind of thought Ralco might buy a station, right? So we kind of knew that there was going to be some things happening. We kind of thought Rolco might buy a station, but Rolco ended up selling. So they sold KISS to Rogers. And I knew the day when Andrew Forsythe came in my office and said, hey, can I get a backup of your music system or music master? I go, no. Well, why do you want that? And who are you? Like I knew him, right? But he said, oh, it's for, we're doing some research on him. Okay, great. Anyhow, so we knew something was coming. Sharon Taylor says to me, book a restaurant, a nice restaurant on this date for a meeting. So I booked the Rosewater Supper Club,

which is a nice restaurant. There's, I know there was a private room upstairs and it's for, you know, book it for four o'clock on Friday. And so we did and told everybody, you know, be at the Rosewood, there's a staff meeting at the Rosewood Supper Club, four o'clock on Friday. And Brenda, who was the, that she made the reservation and everything was there. And then, so I get a call from the Rosewater and about three, oh, Sharon comes into my office at three o'clock with us. Don't go to the Rosewood. I go, what do you mean? Like you stay here. I'm like, okay.

What are you talking about Willis? Right it was chaos, something's going on. What's going on? So I got a call from the Rosewood and I think it was Samantha Houston, because it was Jeff, Mike and Sam. Samantha Houston calls, said, hey, there's no reservation here for Rolco at four o'clock. I said, there is? There is it? Yeah, there is.

No, there's one for Chum. I said, there's a reservation at the Rosewater Suffer Club for Chum, but not for Rolco. She says, yeah. I said, okay. I said, well, and I had phones back then. I just found out that we're either buying Chum or Chum's buying us. That's a weird way to find out. Okay, well, listen, if that's for us though, you guys just stay put and away you go. And then, um, hell hidden, you know, it's not like it hit the fan. It was just like, okay, here's the deal. Uh, so I, I stayed back, all the salespeople stayed back. Julia Adams stayed back. So anybody that was, um, either going to stay on, um, was stayed back. So anybody that was either going to stay on was stayed back at the station. And everybody who was going to go, which was the morning show and whatever other people were at the restaurant. And so Gord shows up there, Gord Rawlinson, and just did the

old, hey, sorry, everyone, we sold the station. It means you're out and it's nothing you did and bubble up and you'll all be taken care of. And the one thing that I sort of laugh at now is that Jeff and, and, and, um, Mike were, I guess, kind of running up a tab, right? They were having some drinks and appetizers and then Gord leaves. And then those guys ended up having to pay their tab, right? Which in the big picture, like, yeah, you'll get reimbursed for it. Okay. Like what has this been like? Yeah. Like that's ridiculous. It was a ridiculous time in the company wouldn't, you know,

neither company would Rogers or Rolco would stiff you for your drinks. Right. But I just love how it turned into a, yeah turned into a yeah we're gonna stiff for the bill okay well you're gonna be fine and we'll reimburse you for it but so that's that's how that's how that happened and the next thing you know Kenny the Hitman was doing drive on Kiss Country and Sharon Sharon Taylor walks in and she's got a DAT tape. She puts it in the DAT machine, closes it. There's a bit of a sign off for Kiss Country. Welcome to Kiss 92.5.

No, sorry, Power 92.5. Right. You know, Toronto's hit music station. Station's on the arm. Driving home and it's top 40. And you didn't have the rights to that name Power, right? That's why it had to go. No, that's right. It was owned by Evinos because they had a station in Newmarket.

I think they still have it. Oh, and a quick question because when you tell that story, which is riveting, you talk about how the reservation is not for raw coal or whatever. But then in your story, you say chum, but you're talking about the reservation. And you're talking about the reservation. And you're talking about the reservation. And you're talking about the reservation. And you're talking about the reservation.

And you're talking about the reservation. And you're talking about the reservation. And you're talking about the reservation. And you're talking about the when you tell that story, which is riveting, you talk about how the reservation is not for raw coal or whatever, but then in your story, you say chum, but you mean Rogers, right? No, no chum. So can you explain that to me? What do I know? I've never worked in radio, but Rogers doesn't own, so Rogers had already bought chum at this point. Like how does just help me out with the, um, you know what it was, it was a receptionist scribble. Okay. So, so Brenda calls three days in advance. Okay. Does that, you know, and whoever, whoever made the reservation at the, at the restaurant put down chum. Okay. Thinking all the radio stations are the same. Oh, okay. thinking all radio stations are the same. Oh, okay.

Okay. Okay. It's sort of like, it was just a mistake. Right. Like that's just like, yeah, like, hey, I like a Coke, but really what you want is a Sprite or whatever, but all pop. Yeah. Pepsi dude.

Pepsi dude. Okay. Fascinating story. I've heard that story. It's kind of become legendary. I think I might have to, at some point, create a micumentary on this story, but now I've had accounts from Jeff Lumbee and Mike Richards and Sharon Taylor and now yourself. And it's kind of wild. And yes, Mike and Mike and Jeff love to hit home the point that they had to pay for their drinks. That was a key part of this story.

And yeah, was that right? No, that was not cool. But But any regrets like any regrets that this is now this wasn't your call, of course But like to do it It just seems like a strange way I've heard many a story on this podcast about the mass layoffs because a format change and it just seems like The the dinner at the rosewater supper club or whatever it's called Like that just seems like a little bit of a stranger way to dismiss somebody. Uh, I don't know if you want... You're not wrong. You're not wrong. And again, the guidance that I got was book a room at a nice place. Right. Right. So for me, that must mean the whoever owns the whatever company is going to buy isn't going to

show up and say, Hi, we just bought you guys. So yeah, it was just again, I, you know, I don't even know what to tell you that it wasn't. It was like, okay, well, this is a nice restaurant. I'll take it from there. So now you're in the Rogers family. And again, we won't spend literally maybe we'll just say that you some markets like I don't know, Ottawa, Halifax, Moncton, St. John, Kingston, these are all markets where you're kind of involved with Rogers. We won't go too in-depth

with your Rogers unless we do a sequel because just since we're over two hours and you're now retired from the radio business, but you still advise stations? Yeah. I mean, super quickly, Rogers, you know, I didn't make I didn't make the top 40 cut. And then about three months later, Chuck McCoy says, you know, we're looking for a manager in Ottawa, do you want to go in? Because Rogers just bought Shea as well. Right. And I said, Okay, so then he also I moved to Ottawa in 1999.

And had worked for Rogers since 99. I like since, you know, since. That's like 20 years. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was 20. Yeah. In total. Yeah. And, and again, part of that was still working for Rogers, still working for the Ottawa cluster out in, out in the Maritimes, like Halifax, Moncton and St. John. And then I was the GM out there. And then I was the GM of Kingston and the Maritimes. And then my VP here retired in Ottawa. And I took his job over, which was Ottawa, Kingston, Halifax, Moncton and St. John. So it was a 10-station cluster because we had five stations in Ottawa, three Ottawa, two Smiths Falls.

And so yeah, lived happily ever after there, changed responsibilities a few times. They got rid of GMs in the structure and replaced them with national format directors. So I became the national format director for Rock for a couple of years. And it was more fun being the GM of, you know, 10 stations and three markets at the time because, but I like the other job as well. And then it was just literally, okay, it's time and the company was fantastic. And I think I've done everything you need to do to set yourself up, which I advise people to do, like no matter what age you're at, like you are going to get older, you are going

to need, you know, a lifestyle. And so, so stop spending it and start saving it, you know, and if you can. So yeah, so yeah, it's all good. And then I'm still keeping busy in the community here with local charities. And I'm also doing some freelance work with another independent company, which has just been a blast.

It's been so much fun. Again, when you report to the guy who writes the check and the guy says, and I say, well, maybe we should do this. Go do it. Do it. Wow.

Yeah. That's what it's like here at TMDS, Danny. Okay. If I have an idea, I can actually just do it. I don't need to run it up the flagpole. So there, so before I play the music, you've been amazing. You're, you know, you're a proud grandpa. You're, you're, you're not very good at retirement cause you're still helping out with the, uh,

I guess it's the Torres media stations there in... Yeah. Good for you. That's amazing. I've loved this. I love the deep dives. So even though Freddie P is not going to hear these words, I'll say I absolutely love getting the details.

And then forevermore, I'll remember what Danny Kingsbury told me about that moment. But did you have any questions for me before I play us out? Only because off the top you threatened. Sorry. It'll take us too long. So maybe I'll just ask you on the side. But I was going to just something to think about. I was going to ask, you know, how I wanted some more details on how you're doing and monetization because the content is clearly nailed from what I can see. The monetization looks pretty, you know, I checked the website, I know how, you know, some of that per inquiry stuff works,

but yours, you can tell that you're at the 1480, what am I, 1484? Yeah, that's correct. So yeah, you can tell that, you know, you've got it. You're not just doing it as a hobby. So I was just quite interested to know that if somebody came along to you and said, you know, I'm going to pay you $100,000 to do this, would you give it all up? Like, you're going to have to increase that number substantially to get my attention. Okay, good.

I'm delighted to hear that. I just threw that out of the, you know, grab that. Well, it's a good round number to start with and then we can go. Yeah. But here I would say if you're in the mood one day, I would happily do a sequel where you ask the questions. I would do that with you, Danny. And then, you know, you can, you can interview me if you want. That sounds awesome. I appreciate it. And listen, Mike, it was, it was great. I'm really glad that we eventually got together. And I know there was a mention about me not being interested. Yeah. Okay. So to clear that up, because you're right. I forgot about that, which is that

I guess the lines got... Before the pandemic, I wanted everybody in person or I wasn't even going to do it. Like that's literally how it worked for years. Then I guess so before the pandemic, I'm sure I had an exchange with you to invite you on and then maybe I misunderstood where you basically explained that you're in Renfrew and you can't get to the basement. Somehow in my mind with Scott Turner, that became you politely declined, but you never declined. You just said geography is in the way we're going to have to do it the way we ended up doing it. So I'm glad we did it. Yeah. Yeah, I have too. I really enjoyed it.

It's great. And I, I don't want your other guests to feel, you know, badly about this. I did appreciate the offer of a airfare hotel at the Ritz and dinner at the Rosewater for exchange. Oh, no, I know what happens at the Rosewater. So forget about it. But I'm good. I didn't need that. That's fine. forget about it. But I'm good. I didn't need that. That's fine. And that brings us to the end of our 1484th show. You can follow me on Twitter and I'm on Blue Sky. I'm all over the place actually at Toronto Mike. Much love to those who made this possible. That is Great Lakes Brewery. They're hosting TMLX 15 on June 27 from 6 to 9 p.m. So join us for that Toronto Mic listener experience.

Palma Pasta, they're going to feed us on June 27 from 6 to 9 p.m. So come hungry, darlin'. RecycleMyElectronics.ca, Raymond James Canada, the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team. Join me on May 12. Me and Wendell Clark and Stephen Brunt and Rick Emmett and Cam Gordon. What more do you want? Minaris, of course. Yes, We Are Open is the podcast. And Ridley Funeral Home. I'm literally gonna record an episode of Toronto Mike Deer. Brad Jones from

Ridley Funeral Home. We're gonna kick out the 10 most requested funeral songs. See you all then.