Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Jon Sinden: Toronto Mike'd #774

Episode Date: December 18, 2020

Mike chats with Jon Sinden about being Jonathan the Inside Edge Guy at 102.1 the Edge, working for MLSE, his big move to Ottawa and his new book "The Shitstorm That Was 2020".

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I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com and joining me this week is the author. Wow, that's a big title. The author of the shitstorm that was 2020, Jonathan Sinden. How are you, Mike? Good, John. How are you doing? Good, man. I'm happy I made it through those sponsor reads.

You're still with us, right? I was going to check in on you. Yeah, took a little nap, but I'm back. Well, you know what's worse is having no sponsor reads you're still with us right i was gonna check in i'm with you took a little nap but i'm back well you know what's worse is having no sponsor reads so uh it's a double-edged sword being so popular that's right well you would know you would know uh you're in ottawa right now is that correct so okay so we're gonna cover a bunch of ground here uh particularly i gotta know more about the shit storm that was 2020 but uh you up and moved your family like you're a toronto guy and you moved the family to ottawa like how is that going for you yeah we love it out here the uh the we used to visit you know once once or twice a year and now we're uh and now we're here it's it's crazy i it's you know

what the main difference is though mike besides? Besides the accumulation of snow. Besides that difference, the squirrels here are so robust and healthy. And they have full fur, big fluffy tails. The squirrels near my house in Toronto were ragged and beat up and missing tails. and beat up and missing tails. But here, I have to ask this, because I noticed with my squirrels here, here in southern Etobicoke, at this time of year, they're fat. Like, I guess this is the, I don't know, I guess it's hibernation. They're carbon up, man.

Right. So, yeah, I totally know what you mean. In the spring and then in the summer, they look ragged ass. And then at this time of year, though, we have pretty robust squirrels here too but you're telling me ottawa gets the robust squirrels around if the squirrels near my house in the junction triangle in toronto knew how good it was out here those squirrels would come man

they could hop on like a train or something and uh make their way so okay so how long have you guys been living in ottawa almost two years. Hey, you know, Mike, people are probably watching this and listening to this and saying like, who, like, like you've had all these, like, like all the names that you've had on your podcast for like the last, you know, couple of years. It's like, oh, I recognize that name. Oh, I know what that is. That's a personality. And then you got this guy who's just sitting here. But John, I kind of thought you'd have that because we've had like exchanges over the years where i've hinted at you coming on and you would often reply by saying nobody wants to hear from me and then i would make a joke about how like oh you're jonathan the inside edge guy and you're like nobody cares about this so let me be very clear about this to you john uh a i'm

interested in this conversation which is really all that matters like that's that's just sad but true and i'm interested in this conversation as well so that all that matters. That's just sad but true. And I'm interested in this conversation as well. So that's A, and that's everything, really. But B, I think your typical Canadian fashion, you're a rather humble guy because, yes, we're going to talk about the book, and I know that might be the catalyst for you finally breaking your silence here.

How many years? Eight. I'm pretty sure you were in early, especially at the beginning no offense to you but in the beginning i wasn't approaching the uh the dave hodges of the world i was approaching the john syndons of the world so you've been you've been pretty much like blowing me off for eight years which is cool no offense taken you have to build your way you have to step you have to step on the johnson is

to get to the hodges i get it but i'm as excited to chat with you now because uh even just in my mind and i did very little prep for this because it's all it's all up here this episode like i i know the stuff i want to chat about and then of course we can add the book to that as well but uh i think you're actually a very interesting toronto who, who worked in a lot of interesting places. And I'm also, I find it like naturally, I'm naturally interested in when like a Toronto guy and his family uproot and go to Ottawa.

And it sounds like it's working out for you. Like, I always wonder like, like, you know, if I, you know, not that I could do this,

but I uproot the family and go to Ottawa, like, would I also be like, you know, tickled pink and pleased as punch? Like, I'm curious in how that's working out for you. Yeah, just absolutely love it. It's, you know, it's a lot colder than Toronto. And we're almost guaranteed snow on Christmas, which isn't a guarantee. It's like 50-50 here. Yeah. And, you know, what really makes,

I mean, just like any, any community really is the sense of community. And, you know, I have great neighbors here. There's, it's a great community, great schools. And, you know, it's, it's a real porch driven, even like, you know, before COVID started kind of dictating our every move, you'd sit on the porch, you'd see the same familiar faces walk by. And it's like, you know, before COVID started kind of dictating our every move, you'd sit on the porch, you'd see the same familiar faces walk by. And it's like, you know, I remember this experience in Toronto years and years ago when I lived at King and Bathurst and there was a girl who lived on the same floor as me, you know, the building above the kitchen table, King and Bathurst. Yeah. Okay. So I lived there for many years wow and and there was a girl uh her name was melissa and she lived on the same floor as me and she worked in radio

yet eyes down in the elevator like you know there's not that kind of there wasn't really that sense it's a big city thing but when you lived in the junction triangle there you my experience is that toronto's just like a a collection of neighborhoods like so it's like a whole bunch of like villages stitched together or whatever like you must have in the junction triangle there you must have had that kind of like familiar faces porch hellos and chats you know in that neighborhood um I noticed one thing um right away is that during school like when you dropped your kid off at school and I found it was predominantly the moms dropping off and then they, they, and they would know each other and they

would have conversations and, Oh, this event's coming up and we need to raise money for the library or whatever. Like there was always these conversations happening and I was kind of looking around. I'm like, you know, where's all the dudes. And so I started a dad club in the junction triangle. It's called the loyal order of water buffaloes. It still exists today. I can't believe it. And, you know, there's 150 members and, you know, we raised, we built, we rebuilt two parks. We did a bunch of stuff. It was just this, I felt like it was lacking the sense, that sense of community that I was so longing for. And, you know, so things like that, you know, right over the years, really built, you know, weaved yourself into the

fabric of a community. You know, I get the feeling a John Sinden would would find a community anywhere he went. Like, I feel like, you know, you sound like the kind of guy who makes it happen if it's not there already. Well, that's so nice of you to say, Mike. Still, people are like, who is this guy? Oh, yeah. Those people hang in there, people. It's true. There are...

There's going to be a big reward. It's like Scooby-Doo. I'm going to rip off my... I'm going to be somebody actually famous. I'm going to rip off my mask. You got that great Canadian insecurity complex. But there's two types of listeners, right? There's the... I listen to all episodes of Toronto Mic'd

and they're the loyalists and love those people because they come for the John Sinden to find out who you are and they enjoy that journey. And then there's the cherry pickers. And yeah, I suspect a lot of cherry pickers might skip this, but they're making a huge mistake. And I hope that, you know, I can't do much about that. Except there's also those people who, you know,

know you and interacted with you because there's a lot of us. That's like me, like we're not friends. Like we don't go hang out, have a coffee or a beer or whatever. But in my life as Toronto Mike, I have interacted with you numerous times in different capacities.

Like you're just kind of part of the fabric there I spoke of. So I think a lot of people who know you from that world will be tuning into here. You know, how's it going for John Sinden? Yeah, I think there's a lot like you, you've, you've touched on the media world. That was kind of, I guess your first, you know, your first love, so to speak, and you've touched on those CFMY days and such. And, and I feel like I, that thread is I'm connected to that thread, but then you also jump into the sports world and I, world. And I'm definitely connected to that thread as well.

And even the beer world, I'm definitely connected to that. I tweeted something today because Great Lakes Brewery has this bundle they're selling. And Great Lakes is a great sponsor. If you were here in person, which is not possible for many reasons, I'd be giving you some Great Lakes beer, fresh craft beer to take home with you. And I would happily take it. Well, that's it. And you know what?

I'm going to go in chronological order because we're going to talk more about the beer. But I guess I'll say right now, since I brought it up, that there's this bundle available from Great Lakes that includes your new book, The Shitstorm That Was 2020. So you're still like woven

into the local craft beer world here. Yeah. I love Great Lakes. They do, they brew. The most important thing a brewery can do is brew great beer. Right. And they seem to have that down to a science. And I, you know, I don't, in Ottawa, it's, they're in liquor stores,

but they're not in every liquor store. So I kind of have to dig a little bit. I'm still hoping they, their delivery boundary spreads a little wider than it currently is. Well, they got to cover Brampton first before they get to Ottawa. I was just there last weekend for their Hops for Hunger campaign. And I mean, Brampton is still, there's still no delivery from Great Lakes in Brampton. So we got to do that, then get to Ottawa.

I think that's the plan. Done. So we'll talk more about the beer stuff and we're going to talk more about the sports stuff because of course you, uh, and I say this, of course, because I know you so well, but you're a former, uh, MLSE guy. And they own almost everything. Everything. Mine is J's basically pretty much. And at the time, no Argos, but, uh, we're going to get to that. And of course,

we're going to talk about the inside edge stuff because i was recently on a the parenting show with pina all right pina crispo and literally like this is before we had scheduled this uh you came up organically because because because she was talking about when she worked at the edge and toronto mike and i pulled a clip from that episode so we're gonna get to that shortly uh and we're to talk about the book because who are you, John, to write a book? Like, I didn't even know you could read a book and you wrote a book. Well, luckily there's only about 300 words in the whole book. And like, when did you, and we'll give a teaser for that, but when did you decide to start writing this book? Like, when did it come to you to write a book? You know, I believe it's kind of one of those threads again, that connect people where I'm sure everybody listening right now,

watching right now, has at one point said, I have an idea for a book. Like, that's just some, you know, I feel like that's just a common. I've done that. Yeah. And, and, you know, I've had them over the years. I, you know, I wrote a, I wrote a kid's book about six years ago. I didn't do anything with it. And then this year, because of this bizarre yet important year that we're having, it just felt, honestly, I was sitting there thinking, someone should really write a book about this hot mess that we're all going through. And then I just started typing and then I was kind of done it real quick. And then, you know- Well, it's only 300 words, John.

How long did that take you? Come on. Yeah, I don't know, a couple hours. And then, you know, the real work of actually putting it together and finding an artist and self-publishing and ISBN numbers and all that stuff that is, you know, pretty daunting

when you look at the self-publishing world and getting it on sale. So I was happy to get the Shitstorm that was 2020 on sale in 52 days, kind of from idea to execution. And it seems to be a hit. Okay, well, tell us now then. It's pretty crazy. So let's tell us right now how listeners can,

because I will drop this episode, like, I don't know, 20 minutes after we say goodbye. Right. Tell them now how they can get this thing. Well, they can. I mean, if you, if you're really into supporting local, you just call your local bookstore and you say, Hey, pick this book up. And they go to a, they go to a service called Ingram without getting too detailed. They go to a service and buy the books. And my, my book is there available for them to buy. So lots of local bookstores in Toronto and Ottawa have it. The other way they

can do it, if they just are more comfortable just sitting on the couch and clicking two buttons, of course, it's on Amazon. And it was the number one hot new release for a couple of weeks. It was the number one mover and shaker in all of the books on Amazon for about a week. And so people are really resonating with it. And you're not buying all these copies. Like these are legitimate. No, I don't have the cash to do that. But it seems to be selling. I know for a fact that my mom only bought two.

Okay. That's great restraint your mom showed. Exactly. So there's other, and I think one of them is actually for me for Christmas, which is a little strange. That is strange. It's probably on your hard drive.

Right, right. I got it. I'll email it. Hey, is your mom in Toronto? Yes. Okay. Shout out to John's mom. Shirley.

What's up, Shirley? Shirley, you just, I love it. Okay. I'm going to read a quick note though, because when I said, I think I tweeted John Sinden was coming on and I didn't hear crickets. In fact, I got a lovely email and maybe you'll know this name. I don't know. Does he want his last i'm gonna call mike d okay and it's it's not mike d from the beastie boys they don't okay because that would have been kind of game over right there you don't get too excited mike diamond you know uh mike d says he wrote me he said i'm gonna read

it to you hope you and the family are well uh looks like I've come full circle with the podcast. As I think I mentioned the very first time I wrote to you years and years ago, it was John who first told me about Toronto Mike. We lived in the same neighborhood and played soccer in the same leagues. I don't think I've seen him since we were in Seattle for the MLS Cup final last year. Great, which is not that long ago, by the way. Who else? Lots of people haven't seen you in that much time, I bet.

Yeah. I was expecting like it's been 10 years since I saw you. Yeah, right, right. Great that you're having him on the show after all these years, exclamation mark. Merry Christmas, Mike D. And I actually met Mike D at a TFC match. He's in the supporters section with his season tickets.

Right. If that helps you narrow down who we're talking about. And at least we know he'll be listening to this program. Well, that's awesome. Yeah. Shout out Mike. What's up? Yeah. Seattle was a blast last year for MLS cup. There was maybe, I don't know, I would say 200 of us who went down to watch here on Toronto FC and in, in Seattle. Right. and then I had the worst airports experience of my life coming back I spent the whole day in the Seattle airport

and then about I don't know half a day in the New Jersey airport and then finally made it home so the ending of that trip was quite possibly the worst kind of travel experience of my life but and we and toronto fc lost the game right of course which kind of sucks but uh you know we had our we had our year trying to see we had our year that's it i'm good for at least 10 years that's how i feel about the raptors win like i feel like you know yeah it may never happen again but it's okay like i feel so full from that i know that sounds sounds strange, right? Like, and I've never, well, and you and I are similar that,

uh, you know, we, neither of us have enjoyed a, uh, Stanley cup victory by our, uh, our team yet. But,

you know, I remember two world series and I still kind of feel like that's got me. Oh, I'm okay with like, I'm okay. Cause I got those two and I feel the same way about the Raptors. And, and you probably maybe feel that way about getting that MLS cup. Yeah, no, I feel the same way by the Raptors. I mean probably maybe feel that way about getting that MLS cup yeah no I feel the same way about the Raptors I mean I'm good like that's a nice

right that's a big full meal and that'll keep me for like I don't expect them to win the next year I didn't expect them to win the bubble tournament I didn't expect them to win next year and maybe you know over the course of building and developing uh in the next couple years we can take another crack at it but really you touched on the leafs and like that would just be like toronto c was great that was awesome right raptors that was really really good but what you know what's it what's the scene gonna look like when the least finally pull it off well you're the right man for me to ask this question uh even before we get to the mlse and talk about i I want to, because of course, here's a teaser.

I want to see if you remember the great Berylchusphere Summit. See if you have any memories. Yeah, of course. How I know, you never know because you've done so many wonderful things all over the place. Do you remember the Berylchusphere Summit? But we'll get to that.

I wonder, I wonder sometimes, like can a Maple Leaf Stanley Cup victory be any bigger to this city and be any more exciting and impressive than what we witnessed in 2019 with the raptors like can it get bigger than that or maybe hear me out hear me out uh the what a diverse fan base the raptors have like that is everyone. I wonder if the Maple Leaf victory would have a similar, uh, uh, sample of the city, uh, on board that, uh, that, that joy train. Fair point. And, and the Raptors, the other thing I'll add to that is it was also the country. Right. And, and that, that, you know, there's only, I can count on, you know there's only i can count on you know well i can count on many

hands but like the the ideas the marketing concepts you know which is actually my my my day job right but the the the that we the north is just that was just a an absolute masterpiece like that was if there's anything that i wish i even though I was a part of it, I, it just, you know, it just wasn't my, you know, wasn't my brainchild. It was so good. And it was so good off the bat, like that first ad and you had that one second clip of the Husky. Do you remember the, yeah, it was like, I upload, I remember uploading that ad to YouTube. Like, okay. That was my, my contribution. There it is guys. I'm'm posting it on Raptors' social channels and such. Yeah, and we all embraced that campaign. And of course, the team was likable,

which I think is a big deal. That was a team, win or lose, you liked that Raptors team. And it stood for something now. All those years as basketball fans feeling neglect from the NBA, it was an inside joke with people I worked with at the Raptors are like, we're never going to be on the front page of

NBA.com. Never. We're never going to have a Christmas game. We're never going to have a TNT game. Like it's just, we're never, it's never going to happen. And then all of a sudden that ad, I felt like projected this feeling we all had, uh, you know, in, in this country country and it kind of it nailed it with the text and with the cadence and all that stuff and and and the one second clip of the husky yeah that was my favorite part yeah and and it worked it worked so well and i feel like then respect started coming after that and then winning came after that and winning is everything right like uh like that that changed that's a game changer and again like and i always remind my son he's 18 he's almost 19 but uh you know my goodness you know so huge kawaii leonard fan we were hugging uh as that game wound down and we realized we're winning this fucking thing

like we're you know just like the tears and the hugs and i always remind him the fact that they can never take that away from us like forever until our last breath we're 2019 nba champs forever forever like that's forever there's a chip a chip forever that's amazing oh man i thought i was bawling my eyes out same same way amazing so and so you think about it you've actually you've enjoyed you you've enjoyed an mls cup and an nba championship in the last uh few years. And that's a lot more than either. You know, back when we had, you know, it was all Leafs and Jays.

Like, you know, there was only two ever in that time period for me anyways. Like, this is all, this is pretty good. Things are changing here. Okay, we'll get to that. So, chronological order. So, let's, and I don't know anything. You can tell me. I don't know your life before, Jonathanathan the inside edge guy oh yeah did you have a life before that or is that

that's when you were born it was like anakin skywalker just no just poof it was there that's right that's right um so how did you end up as jonathan the inside edge guy on 102.1 the edge yeah i worked in the radio business for a couple of years before that. And most notably, I was, I kind of, you know, I worked at a, like I started my very first job was at a, my internship was at the Fan 590. That's cool.

And so I got to know some of the sports guys and I got to, I volunteered on some of the shows. Do you remember Jeff Merrick and George and those guys doing on some of the shows do you remember um jeff merrick and george and those guys doing the overnight show game do you even know anything about toronto mic we reference that show every third episode i think yeah because uh macko senior was the program director right right and uh and then the his son i guess it is was he's the one he's the one out of the group i didn't really know too yeah bob m, Bob McEwitt's junior. Yeah, that's right. And, but I knew George and I knew Jeff fairly well. And, you know, I told them what a fan I was of that show.

So, so they asked, so I came, I went in an intern and stuff on the show, like while they're sitting around in their underwear, doing the, doing the show, watching a CFMG television to see if there's some nudity. Like it was just, it was groundbreaking radio for the day. But that was an important, I mean, I mean, guys like us, we remember that that's back when you could, you could actually have like live, a live opportunity overnights on a big station,

like the Fan 590. Like those opportunities are gone now, right? Like there's nowhere to cut your teeth like that. There's nowhere for a Strombo and a Jeff Merrick to kind of improve their craft on radio. Yeah, there's that cutting teeth like that's a you know that's a great example it's all automated and it's very cookie cutter and that was uh re-rolls and syndication and all that nonsense just repeat what was played earlier in the day and make sure

you play the hits kind of deal yeah right so you're you're there for kind of in there yeah that's amazing that you had that do you remember anyone else? Like, I'm trying to remember, but did anyone like a Barry Davis or anybody else like that have a role? Yeah. Yeah. That, that name is familiar too. Cause you know, over the years I obviously saw his work, but I feel like he's involved in some way. And I don't know, is there a young Elliot Friedman at all involved in that at the time? Yeah, that's right. He was there and, and, and these were,

these were all young guys in broadcasting, but then I was even younger. Like I was just like a kid trying to, trying to get coffee for people, you know, that kind of thing. Right. Right. So it was pretty, it was a great time. And then I remember George came to me one day and said, uh, Hey, there's a university sport show on, you know, on the coveted Sunday morning spot. Yeah. And there's this university sports show hosted by this guy and, and they have different like student co-hosts each week. And maybe you want to do that. And I'm like, yeah, man, that sounds great.

So I went in that day and that, like I prepared like three weeks of learning all about university sports and who the top athletes, top programs are and all that kind of stuff. And then I get in and I'm sitting down and the host is sitting across from me. We put on our headphones and the first voice I hear. So the theme music starts, right? And George is producing a show. He's on the other side of the glass and he's like giving me the thumbs up and everything. I'm like, I can't wait. And then he says in my ear, and I hope you win. You're going to do great. I hope you win the contest. Oh, and I'm like, what? I'm like, what, what, what contest? Like, what do you mean? Like, we're about to start talking. And I'm like, what? They kind of threw me for a curveball. And he's like, yeah, yeah, there's different co-host each week. There's a bursary handed out to the end for

the best co-host. And now all this pressure's on. And, but it worked out okay. And I got my way through it. And I realized through that, you know, whatever it was, an hour-long show, I realized that although I love sports and I love talking about sports, there's a certain expertise in talking about sports on the radio. And I can talk about sports with my friends and back and forth. And, you know, I might even be the sports expert to some of my, my friends, but I was, I knew in that moment that I, even though I did very well in the broadcast, I wasn't cut out to be a sports broadcaster. And now clearly you've done well for yourself and you probably know yourself better than anyone else. But at the same time, there's probably a lot of, you know, popular, uh, sports broadcasters who

weren't very good at the beginning. It's like you've got to put in your reps. We kind of talked about cutting your teeth. You put in your reps, you get better and better. I don't think Elliott Friedman was great out of the box, and today he's what? The Rogers de facto insider. Yeah, it's amazing to see all these guys grow.

I mean, it's just mind-blowing to see some of it because you knew there was talent. Like you when you met guys, you're like, oh, that guy's talented or that girl's talented. And then to see them kind of blossom over careers just and I felt like my true calling was to help them. And my true calling was to help promote them or think of things for them, not necessarily be that. But you're like the wizard behind the curtain is what you, right? Yeah. Yeah. There's some of that going on. Yeah. Merrick, by the way, in his younger years, he went to Humberside. So he became friends with Mike Lackey and Peter Bullitt from Great Lakes Brewery. And he worked there for a little bit before he ended up as a sports media superstar.

Jeff Merrick was such a fierce competitor. All the time in the world for him. I see him up on TV and I'm like, I'm proud to know him. He's a great guy. We used to see each other walking our dogs all the time too. And one memory I have of him is we were playing on the chorus softball team. Right. We're called the Clusterfucks. memory I have of him is we were playing on the chorus softball team right right right we're

called the clusterfucks and and so the softball team and he was like fierce like like I'm a pretty aggressive sport you know like I get in the moment too and but he was like he was almost cartoony like his face would get red smoke coming out of his ears like he was fierce competitor man the guy all i say is that jeff merrick you wanted jeff merrick on your team and you probably hated playing against him oh that's that's great that's great so so okay so you're you're doing some interning and you're doing some stuff in the fan 590 and how because strombo tells a story where uh he was doing stuff on the fan of course like you described there and he he was secretly meeting with, who was the PD of Edge 102 at the time?

Myers. Stu Myers. Stuart, yeah. Okay, so he would be meeting with Stu about trying to get a gig at 102.1. How did you end up at Chorus' station there at 102.1? Not quite. Well, I mean, it makes sense that george and got and program directors were having those conversations because george was an immense talent and you probably want him on your station

to get ratings and stuff this uh me not so much having those types of conversations it was like uh i worked uh i was kind of lucky enough to work um i helped launch a station called flow 93.5 and so i forgot you were part of that launch. That's interesting too. So you are an interesting guest. Okay, yes. So far, so good. It was kind of an interesting, you know, Milestone Radio

was the name of the company that had the Flow, the eventual license that became Flow. And they were looking for, they were staffing up, so to speak. And they were looking for, you know, radio people. And I went in and I met with, at the time that I think there were three employees, maybe four employees. And it was a little crappy little office on Richmond street

and no signs, no nothing. And I felt like I was kind of in the wrong place. I didn't even feel like a broadcast, you know, like anything to do with broadcasting. And then they said, we're Milestone Radio. And I said, here's kind of the skillset I have. And they hired me. And so I was kind of like, maybe I would, I'm totally guessing about probably the fourth or fifth employee. Do you remember who beat you on the payroll there? Like, do you remember the names? Who was there? Yeah. Keith Davis was, was the sales manager, a terrific guy. Michelle Price was the name of the program director who was from the US and just full of life and full of energy. Of course, Nicole Jolly, who was the owner's daughter

at the time, she was there. There must have been someone else. I'm forgetting. Oh, Aisha Wickham. I don't know if you know that name, but she's like, oh, what a force Aisha Wickham is I don't know if you know that name, but she's like, Oh, what a force Aisha Wickham is. And just a, you know, a champion for the community. Just incredible. So impressive. And of course, one of my favorite human beings, this is all coming back to me now. One of my favorite human beings of all time, Mr. Farley Flex. Isn't he a nice guy?

One of my, still one of my good friends to this day. Oh, here I am. Okay. No, he's not on this he's not on this but he was i have this here uh this is obviously ltd and maestro but uh his name is on this because he was uh uh managing uh wesley williams there but yeah he that's fantastic and i knew he was a day one or there with that flow but i didn't know how early you were hired there that's fantastic so kind of right after that first uh core and i think out of that group besides michelle the program director who came from nashville i think it was right um i i was kind of the guy with the

radio experience you know i brought kind of radio talk to the work to the room man that's a that's your part of toronto radio history. I'll never forget. I've told this story before, but we were, um, I think we've talked about it kind of off, off, off Mike, right. That, uh, we went to the ad agency. Uh, there was, you know, three or four of us went to the ad agency and they were going to reveal what they were telling us, what they thought our name should be. Remember it was just milestone radio. And so we're sitting in this like amphitheater style seating, like a movie room. And there's four like Bristol boards, like a science projects, but they're covered.

Each one's covered with black you know, tablecloth. And so one by one, they ripped it off and said, this is your new name. And so it was a different name. They wanted to get our reactions to each one. So the first one was like the beat 93.5 and you know, okay, that looks okay. Kind of sounds standard issue, but yeah, it's cool. And the next one was like, uh, uh, hits or, or, or banging hits one or 93 or like just whatever. And, and there was one more. And then the final one, and then the third one was flow 93.5, and there was one more. And then the final one, then the third one was flow 93.5, but the final one, and it's going to sound like I'm making this up a bit, but I promise you this happened. The girl from the agency rips it off and it was yo mama 93.5. And I, I freaked out and

loved it. I was like, yes, yes. You better listen to your mama. Like, this is so perfect. But I was definitely the only person who was a fan of that. And it became Flo. Yeah, and the rest is history. But it's a tumultuous history in a sense. I know I talked to Farley about this, but along the way, you know, I hope they did it. And this is just a quick aside, but they did syndicate a U S morning show for a while anyways, during this pandemic.

And then I think they thought better of the idea and went back to a live local show. And I just do think that flow needs to have a live local morning show. Yeah. Yeah. So as with any radio, but especially one that's trying to kind of super serve a community, right.

You can't just play whatever it might have been charlemagne or whatever that yeah that's exactly uh and was it yeah the breakfast club breakfast show i guess breakfast whatever they're called but yeah charlemagne and i forget all the names of these uh this new york show but uh see i could be a programmer it's real simple that's right i just pulled that out of my sleeve good for for you. Good for you. Okay. So, uh, is the next step for you? 102.1 the edge. Yeah. So, uh, you know, in radio, there's a term and you probably heard it and your listeners

probably heard it often is like, they moved across the street. Right. Like, you know, I worked at this station, then I moved across the street. Well, you know, when people would like, for example, a Darren Drager, let's say a Darren Drager, let's pick on him. He's a sports net guy. He, he would cross the parking lot and now he's a tsn guy so i i like literally moved across the street because flow was right across the street from the edge right and uh there was um there was a guy at the edge for many years who left and there was a vacancy and uh and all these

signs were kind of pointing to to like that was me it was going to be me i had all these signs were kind of pointing to like, that was me. It was going to be me. I had all these people just reaching out and saying, this has got to be the guy. This has got to be the guy. He's got the energy. He's got the know-how. He's got the, all this, you know, he's got the pedigree. Right.

And sure enough, it all, all the planets aligned. But the funny part is Mike, I was raised on, you know, you held up your maestro, like I was raised on hip hop, like Big Daddy Kane and Maestro Fresh West and Special Ed and Boogie Down Productions and Public Enemy and Tribe Called Quest. And, you know, these were the bands that I grew up with. And I wasn't like a Nirvana fan, you know, and I felt like when I was moving from flow to the edge that people had this expectation just by kind of judging a book by its cover saying oh he's probably going to be he's going to be he's going to know everything and i'm like i actually the the kurt comane death didn't affect me like it affected you know you guys like i felt like i wasn't really speaking the language that's

interesting because uh i spoke both languages i was bilingual so uh because i was big grunge guy huge grunge i still am actually but public enemy might be my favorite band of all time like i was big hip-hop guy too and you mentioned big daddy cane i mean maestro you know borrowed a lot of the big daddy cane smooth operatorness i felt they were very similar yeah oh he'll i mean ma show will admit it like he'll tell you he kicked out the jams with me and he kicked out a uh a big daddy jam and he's like yeah that's that's the delivery style for sure i remember i had flow 93 one day farley and i used to always go to lunch together you know you have lunch buddies that you work with you know and so

flex and i'd go for lunch and one day we're, we go to like a sub shop or something. I don't even remember. And he's like, all friends meeting me here. And sure enough, it's Wes sits down in the sub shop. We're three eating subs. And I'm just kind of like,

like I couldn't talk. I was like, I had your cassette, dude. No, I will say I had a similar, that Maestro was sort of like a very approachable, accessible guy. But in like for you and me, like Maestro is sort of like a very approachable, accessible guy. But for you and me,

Maestro is this massive celebrity where you watched him high rotation on Much Music and you bought his albums and I bought his 12-inch singles. That's my... I didn't go buy that when I heard he was coming over. I had that since 1990 or whatever. And it's sort of strange

because I have a pretty good relationship with maestro now where he'll take my call he's been over a couple of times and it's still kind of mind-boggling that oh maestro is going to drop by and you know we're going to kick out the jams together for 90 minutes like it's a bit of a mind yeah it's crazy well good for you because i mean you he is very approachable and and while we were eating he must have been interrupted oh i don't know five six times and he was he was awesome okay quick quick I don't know, five, six times. And he was awesome. Okay, quick, because we brought him up already a few times here.

But what I witnessed at the Horseshoe Tavern, I was once at the Horseshoe for something or other, and Strombo was there. And I wanted to have a quick chat with him because he was going to come over. So we were going to talk about some logistics things about him visiting for Toronto Mike. And then I kind of waited for him to get to the, you know, the door there.

And I watched him make his way. It might have been like, I'm going to say it was like 30 feet. Okay. Yeah. Every human in that place wanted like a selfie with Strombo in a moment of his time. And Strombo, I swear, this is a true story. He stopped for everybody and gave them a moment. And it must've cost him a

good hour. I think trying to get 30 feet, but he totally like was a cool dude about it. So I always remember that a strong book took the time to take a selfie with all those people. He's he's in a class on his own to me. Like, like he's a lot like Farley and Maestro in those,

in those, you know, recognizable personalities, but, but you know friends right like they're your friends like that whole thing with George being Canada's girlfriend or something I'm like I thought that was so perfect he's just like or Canada's boyfriend it was Canada's boyfriend yeah yeah I just thought it was perfect because he's like

he's so approachable he's so nice he takes the time I remember like not seeing him for I forget where we were at a bar or something, watching UFC fights or something. And, and then I'm leaving. I see him. He calls me, you know, he waves, we have quick chat reminisce. And he remembered a name of someone that he shouldn't have. You know what I mean? He just remembered, Oh, how's Jess? Oh, how do you remember that? I haven't seen you in five years. And you know, like, like, how do you remember those things? You remember it because you were raised properly and you're a good person so yeah solid solid citizen there shout out this jump so uh you what's your role exactly at 102.1 are you the social media guy what are you the hype machine no i actually social media wasn't like it didn't have a name

at that at that point it was uh just slightly before that i was the director of marketing and promotions uh now are you taking over for darren no darren was he long gone oh he was at q okay yeah okay so i was darren's uh i guess you could say i was darren's kind of equal but on the edge side he's still uh bffs with uh freddie p from the humble and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They all live in that little commune together. That's a good way to put it. So it's funny because I'll do some, I produced the Humble and Fred show and I had this idea for, I like this idea.

I love the concept of pirate radio. So I said, let's get a new refreshed Humble and Fred logo with a pirate ship, kind of like a Pirate Bay type deal and call it Humble and Fred Pirate Radio. So I put together this whole like package just to make some noise with social and stuff like that and uh i guess darren told fred uh like privately darren told fred something to the effect of how like don't mess with your brand man that's a bad idea and i got a call right away to revert back like it was he said darren's words

still carry yeah all that weight today. A smart guy. Yeah. Darren's super smart, kind of zany and out there. I remember he said to me once, he's like, you know, cause he's a little older than me and he felt, you know, I'm sure he felt like kind of a mentor type relationship with me. Right. And in, he said, he shut my office door one day and he's like, I had an amazing office at the edge and he shuts the door and he comes in, I had an amazing office at the edge. And he shuts the door

and he comes in and he says, unprovoked, there's nothing that is leading to this. He goes, you know, one day we're all going to get fired. And I'm like, oh yeah, I mean, that's the business. I get it. And he's like, okay, here's what I want. If I get a manila envelope, all I want to be able to do is take that money and go to my trailer and go watch junior a hockey. And then he just got up and left. Wow. I didn't even say it. Like, I didn't even get a word in. And I'm like, okay, well, that's what his thought of this moment was.

And he thought he could share it with me. And from then on, we always shared these kind of random thoughts. And out of those random thoughts, we created Derringer's Tour, you name it. Whatever idea that you heard on that radio station during that time, it came from one of those conversations. That's awesome. So where does Jonathan,

the Inside Edge character come from? Because people of a certain age who listen to that station, like yourself, like yours truly here, remember these personas on the website and stuff so where did all that come from yeah that came from a guy named dave farrow who was the program director i know the guy who hired me um a big fan of dave's and he said uh so he hired me and about i was maybe i'm gonna get the math wrong here but it's like maybe i was like two or three months after they hired the dean blendell show so 2001

shit i don't know i think i think blendell because i only know because humble and fred moved to 640 and i think blendell comes in i think it's early to that like early 2001 like maybe yeah okay maybe i'm getting the dates wrong okay it's okay sat there maybe it's just two months after dave started there okay maybe that's it so i'm sitting there in dave's office and we're looking out in the hallway and there's dean jason todd and a couple other people just talking right and uh and and dave leans over to me and he says okay you're a cool guy. Right. And I'm like, oh yeah.

Okay. He goes, okay. Now your job here is not, you're not a radio promotion or marketing person. You have to spread the word and make these guys cool. And he points out the door and there's Dean Jason Todd. And it was like the perfect, what's that called? The perfect tableau of that moment. Right.

Because, you know, Dean was, Jason was kind of gazing off into the sky. Todd was, you know, saying something to somebody and they're all doing their like characteristically Dean, Jason, Todd things at that moment. And I think one of them was picking their nose, you know, like it was that kind of moment. I was like, oh, okay. So I'm not here to give away stuff. I'm here to make the, yeah, I can do it. I can do it. And then I developed a relationship with those guys and, and you know, they were super great to work with for, for, I was there for about six, six years or so. And during that time, right at the beginning I felt like email marketing was going to be a real effective way of communicating. And we had a database called the Inside Edge

and Dave Farrow and I had many conversations about the Inside Edge. And all credit goes to him because he kind of led me to it. He would say like, okay, we need like a voice for this. I think we got to start with a voice for this and he's got to be like relatable. And I'm like, yeah, he's got to be relatable. And then we would add, we would talk about what this guy needs to be. And we would, we wrote it on a whiteboard. And then at the end of it, I kind of looked at the whiteboard. I'm like, it kind of sounds like, like, it kind of sounds like me, like, like the description is me. And, uh, so I looked at him and it was probably Dave's plan all along to get me to that place because he was clever that way. And, uh, and then that we just, it was born that day. So I was,

I was John to kind of John send it to, to my colleagues and stuff. And, and and I was kind of Jonathan on, on the radio. So that's the birth of Jonathan, the inside edge it's guy, right? I'm trying to remember now. Yeah. Jonathan inside edge guy. And that was super um successful on on many levels um the database the inside edge database was 14 000 email addresses wow and you know my goal was to get it to 100 000 that's what i thought we would get to so we ended up getting to half a million wow like 480 000 email addresses that's pretty crazy that that's amazing and and just because i mentioned her earlier but at some point pina is the uh inside edge chick uh is that right she's a yeah and so did you hire pina

i did yeah so pina worked part-time at q107 and uh and i you know i just liked her and she had what's not to like she She's full of enthusiasm. Energy. So what you need is energy. And, you know, in that world, you're going to get told no a hundred thousand times, but that one time you get told, yes, you just got to knock it out of the park. And I just felt like you needed that kind of, uh, like in any marketing role really. And, uh, and so, you know, I was, uh, I think I'm going to get the dates wrong. Maybe 2009 I was let go. That sounds about right to me. Okay. Before we let you go there, uh, by the way,

shout out to Pina if she's listening, because, and I've told the story a few times, but I was lucky enough to get invited to the opera house for the party for Marty. Right. 10 years since Martin Streak left us, which I'll ask you about some of the personalities you worked with in a moment but uh Pina was a great help because I'm live for three hours like I'm on the mic Toronto I had it all set up in the lobby there and I'm live for three hours no breaks no nothing and meanwhile Pina would be really helpful because she would go wrangle somebody to come on the mic and chat with me and like oh there's Scott Turner or whatever you know you name it uh you know there's may potts there's alan cross and bring them over

so uh i don't know how i could have done that i mean i don't maybe just wouldn't have been as good but i don't know how i could have done that show without pina so uh so i always root for pina but nice now that we've talked about pina i need to play a clip and i uh this is a few weeks i don't know like a month ago maybe i can't remember time is like a construct that I've lost all sense of, but this was me on her parenting show, which airs on six 40 here in Toronto, uh, another, uh, core station. Okay. And, uh, it's a couple of minutes. So hang in there. Cause I'm going to play it in its entirety. Okay. And then I'm going to ask you about it. So listen up, John, here we go. But Mike, just before the break,

we were talking about how you started the podcast and even before that, how you started the blog. And I'm going to fill you in on something that you probably have no idea. Nope. So way before I ever met you, Mike, way before that, I knew who Toronto Mike was. As the promo and marketing director

for 102.1 The Edge back in the day, you know, we had quite a lineup of announcers on the station. And we were a real edgy station at the time. And a lot of things would go down and people would come and go. You know, we'd hire new staff and some staff would be let go or or get fired and um it was always like oh crap how long before Toronto Mike blogs about this and I'm not even kidding you we're just like or it was like oh god how did he find out already he already has a blog up about this.

Like, what's with this guy? I bet you didn't know that, Mike. Well, I didn't know this. As you know, because I've had yourself, I've had many of the Edge personalities on. And a few have hinted at this, but none have really spilled it out the way you just did. this, but none have really spilled it out the way you just did. So that is interesting to me, because all I am is a guy who loves radio and writes about it because I write about things I love. So, you know, the problem, not the problem, but the fact is there isn't as much mainstream media coverage of radio happenings as there used to be, because now there's all this noise

everywhere. The Internet showed up and et cetera, et cetera. So the fact that I'm out there actually writing about something just is noticeable now because, because hey there's a guy who's writing about the fact that we let go this personality but i felt like it was sort of if i didn't write about the fact this beloved on-air personality was no longer at the station well who would so i did yeah it's it's true it was um you would talk about that even just like if there was like something weird that went down we're like we don't even know how this guy caught wind of it but it was always like i'm gonna walk in and be like did you see toronto mike's tweet or did you see his blog and we're all like oh crap interesting pina That's actually very interesting. So thanks for sharing that because

I never get to see the inside because I have never worked for a radio station or a mainstream media outlet. I've always been fiercely independent here. So that's actually some good insight. So now you know. I'm forgiving you for the Reiki stuff because you brought the heat with that inside baseball. So now you know, Toronto Mike, now you know that at like my desk in Edge Promo Land at the time, you know, you were topic of conversation many times. Okay, John, there it is. I warned you it was a little lengthy, but what other episode could I ever play that on except this one right so congrats all right so uh is there anything you want to add to that as p uh like were were they aware of toronto mike the blogger uh inside the uh the edge 102 marketing department well i mean i'll pump your tires a little bit and then I'll take some air out of it. Okay. So I was a big fan of people who were putting their life out there.

Okay. So in that day there was, you know, you were doing some of it. There was, you know, Ramey the minx and Casey Stewart. And there was a bunch of people who were like putting their life on whether it's a blog or in video or whatever. And I was a huge fan of that. And my take on it was every time I would see somebody share something about their life, that was way more interesting to me than Nickelback. You know what I mean? Like what I was doing is I was trying to foster a culture of, of, I was trying to plant seeds really. So, so were people aware of you? Were they aware of, yeah, of course. Were they aware of all these people in the blogosphere at that time? That's all I was doing. I was saying like, look how, like, like I would show someone like

Raina Duras, look at this person putting their life on, you know, maybe it's their edited life, but, but so what they're putting a lot of their emotion and their thoughts. This is what we all need to be doing. Like it's, you can't turn on a microphone and say, and here's the time and temperature in the song and then go to the song. That's not what radio is going to be. And if it is, then it's going to lose its way. And we all know what's going on in the media business over the last decade. And I feel like we had an opportunity to put our lives on out there. And, you know, we took a couple shots, but didn't do it as much as I feel like, like I would rather have real people like not radio. Like I love everyone I worked with and I don't,

I wouldn't say like cannibal and put real people on, but I feel like there's a real authentic part to just the average person, you know, telling you what they thought of a restaurant or whatever. I'd rather much more of that. And so I was air airing i was airing clips and i was showing stuff any person who walked by my office i would show them a screen of like look at this person this this girl just went to a restaurant last night she talked about it she talked about her experience she had a crazy cab ride home right that's the type of thing that i i'm finding myself drawn to i'm not drawn to oh this band's coming to town saturday right like i've heard that you're looking for uh personality the character the character uh of the personality as

opposed to just a reader or a presenter whatever and at that time in that station i was like you know i was much less about the music i like it was was. And, you know, and you can ask people from that era. It's like, I was trying to champion this authentic, real conversation to have as opposed to play the hits. Well, let me pump your tires for a moment and just say what, that's some great foresight because like today you can, everyone's got a streaming service and they can get the music anywhere. Right. So like, it's like, I almost want to quote office space.

Like, why do you go to Choshkies? You don't go for that. You get a cheeseburger anyway, where you go for the, the flair. Yeah, no,

exactly. And it's all about the, it's all about the, you know, 75 pieces of flair. Right. Yeah. You know,

I'm watching it. I know my wife, uh, discovered that prime has a show starring Ron Livingston. Who's the guy, the main guy from Office Space. And I've been watching it lately. It's called Louder Milk. That's what it's called. Louder Milk? Yeah, Louder Milk. I'm looking for a new show. Ron Livingston on the screen. I always thought, you know, I know he was in Band of Brothers and he did other things like Sex and the City and stuff, but he's a great actor. I really

enjoy watching him on the screen. So there's a tangent on The Office space. Ron Livingston. It should be called Tangent, Mike. That's what this whole thing should be called. I feel sorry for those podcasters who are against the tangents. That's where all the good stuff is. As long as you come back.

I do want to ask you, because I talked about the party for Marty. So it's been now, I guess it's been 11 years since we lost Martin streak. What was it like working with Martin streak? I mean, I'm sure you've heard this a million times, but he was, he brought an energy.

He was amazing. Just amazing. It just, I can't even, I can't put it into words. He had an amazing energy. He had, he was so full of energy and like his eyes were always wide open. He was interested in what you were saying. He was interested in sharing. He was interested, you know, he just, he was present. He was very present. He was overly present. overly present in and he made he made little moments you know larger than life and that was like he was just i i just that was a very very sad uh time when you when you heard the news uh i mean i can't imagine because i know how it felt as a fan i cannot imagine what it would be like

for somebody who considered him a friend like it's just i mean yeah he was a really good guy and uh you know he has so many stories about him but there's a couple that come to mind right away he so i was we were both skateboarders right and i still am to this day that's why i walk with the limp most days good for you man um so he but i was riding a traditional small skateboard still. And he came into my office one day with a longboard because he was all about the longboard, right? He came into my office one day and he shut the door and he sat down and he had that big eyed energy. And, you know, he's all in black smelling, like smelt like a million dollars, you know,

and he would say, it's time to hang it. He looked at me right in the eye, like a, like a concerned parent. And he was like, it's time to hang up that little skateboard. Like stop fucking riding that thing. This is your new skateboard. And gave me a longboard, longboard trucks, wheels, the whole bit section eight, like ready or like a longboard ready to go. And I was like, this is amazing, man. I can't believe it. I'm so happy. Like, this is so great. Yes. I'll start longboarding and sure enough, I stopped riding my little skateboard and started riding the long skateboard and wrote, I still own it to this day, but, uh, um, you know, wrote it, uh, so, so much so that

after my first child was born, um, and she grew a little older, she she skipped the little board and went right to the longboard as well. So so Martin influenced how I adulted, you know, like he had that kind of like, you know, he knew in that moment, he was impacting you, but you didn't know till 10 years later, like that kind of that kind of, you know, he rubbed off that way. Wow. So now my whole family longboards. And it's pretty much all because of him oh i love that story so thank you for sharing it and uh because i know you're in ottawa you couldn't make the party for marty at the opera house so uh i'm glad we could finally you know have that chat there because uh 11 years but stories like yours i hear them all the time so it's larger than life, as they say.

Yeah, I remember that. I remember that night because there was a Red Blacks game and I had to be at that game. But another quick thing I want to share with you is, and you've probably heard this maybe a million times, but Martin loved Halloween, right? So we had this ritual. We worked together for six years. And every August. So well before October, every August he would come into my office. Do he do the same thing? I can still kind of picture it. He would shut the door and there was a lock on the door. He'd shut the door

and he'd lock it. And he'd just sit there and he'd smile and not say anything. And I, and, and then, so the first year I didn't quite know what it was, but then every year afterwards, I kind of caught on. He thought of his Halloween costume and he already has it in the works and he wants me to guess what it is. So he just sat there like brimming with energy. And I would be like, Oh, you have your costume. Okay. Uh, and then I would try to think of things in the news, things topical, you know, I never even came close, but he did say he'll give me three guesses and if if I do get it he'll tell me that I got it but I have to keep it quiet so I you know I just rhyme off like these random things but I never got it and then in in October when he actually

showed his costume it was just like the build-up started in august and just like like crescendoed all the way to october 31st and then boom whatever he was going to the phoenix and like it was just amazing how much he loved halloween and the energy and the cut the link we had because of that you know it's strange you know amazing and of course we've also now sadly we've also lost dave bookman as well uh bookie's passed away and you you worked worked with him as well, I guess, for those six years. I could listen to Dave Bookman interview. Like I was almost angry when he was in an interview and then he went to music. Like, I just want to hear him talk, like, talk about if he was born in this era, what would his, what would his what would his podcast his music like

what would that sound like i i'd subscribe i'd listen to it every day like i just want to hear him make a reference to some small little restaurant in some small little town that some some band member knew and just watch them in amazement like it was just it was it was an absolute art form maybe top top one two interviewers of all time in my, in my books. I guess Bookie was putting that out there for Dave, I guess. iWeekly, I want to say. I hope I got, it's either now or, yeah, I hope I got the right alt weekly there. But yeah, so a couple of guys that we all love that you worked with no longer with us. But did you overlap?

And my mind can't remember the years, but Brother Bill was there too. Was he there at the time? Yeah, yeah. Right at the beginning. Okay, because I can't remember when he there at the time yeah yeah um right at the beginning okay because i can't remember when he left for the west coast okay but someone i i admire like admire and kept in you know we kept in a little bit of touch with neil like over those over those years right and over the years like even recently he sent me a nice message about the book oh good okay because he

i'm glad you're saying nice things only because he's actually going to be listening to this for sure so yeah so we didn't get to actually work, you know, hand in hand, like I did with some of the, some of the other hosts, but, uh, but it seems like a top, top notch kind of guy. Well, you know how a Spotify, they have this like a nice little chart of what are your most listened to podcasts of 2020. And, uh, he shared his screen cap with me that, uh, Toronto Mike was brother Bill's most Bill's most listened to in terms of hours, most listened to podcast of 2020. So shout out to Brother Bill. Okay, you mentioned in 2009, John, because I realize now I can't make this a six hour episode, or maybe I can.

But why were you let go in 2009? Why would anyone want to let go Jonathan Sinden? It makes no sense to me. You know, the radio business is a funny world. And, you know, I had, you know, it wasn't, I know the success of the radio station wasn't because of me. I was just a spoke in the wheel. But, you know, the Dean Blundell show was off the charts, the ratings. It was the highest ratings in the station's 26, 7-year history.

It was the most revenue generated in, you know, 20 whatever years the station's 26, seven year history. It was the most revenue generated in, in, you know, 20, whatever years the station's been alive. We had a really good run. I'm sure on that note, I'm sure any era that somebody worked there was probably the golden era. You know what I mean? Like it was the golden era in 82. But that's a fact. Like you're talking about an analytical fact that the, I mean, was it a 14 share or something like that that they got one book or something? If you're asking me to go a little deeper on the ratings,

I can't help you there, but. But bottom line is it had, it had big, big, big ratings. Okay. Big ratings, big, big sound, you know, big revenue, big personalities. Like we were doing some really over the top things that, you know, didn't exist, you know, because I was all about creating interesting content and kind of shareable, talkable stuff. And I remember this argument I had over the years with someone in the program, in the chorus programming, you know, an expert who shall remain nameless, but an expert nonetheless, who used to, we'd have these conference calls for all, whatever it was, 30 radio stations in the chorus chain. And I just felt like the edge should take the lead in those

conversations because it's because of the things we're doing. That's just my own kind of ego. And what we were doing at the edge was so groundbreaking. And I was throwing out all these ideas about how, you know, we're sending Todd on these adventures and the only reward to the listeners to listen. It's not necessarily, you know, they're not winning a big thing at the end. And then I had, you know, it was so tough for me at that time. Cause all these other, you know, programming people were like, okay, we want to institute a song of the day. And I said, if anyone wants to introduce a song of the day, I'm fucking out.

Like there's just no chance that I can ever be a part of that. And, said, if anyone wants to introduce a song of the day, I'm fucking out. There's just no chance that I can ever be a part of that. And, you know, because we're doing some pretty cool shit. And what ended up happening is my, you know, my I was really over the top, too, in my delivery of when I didn't like something. Right. I've matured and grown over the years, but, but I would, you know, I would lose it to senior executives and, and, and I would sneak around and do stuff the lawyers didn't like. And, you know, we had open flame in the studio all the time. Like we were definitely not allowed to do that, but I just kept doing it, kept doing it. And, and Dean, you know, Dean, Jason and Todd's credit,

they always supported me and, and Dean, you know, Dean, Jason and Todd's credit, they always supported me and, and said, you know, like the stuff we're coming up with as a, as a, as a group is actually really resonating. You can tell by the ratings and you can tell by the, you know, you can tell by many other metrics too. And, and I just, you know, I knew as outspoken as I was and the, I was a hundred percent taking risks. I was all gas, no break. And, and you know, that can only go, that highway is only so long. No, this story resonates with me. It sounds like a younger Mike in the corporate world. It's yeah. You, and like you said, you, you mature as you progress and you learn from, you know, you learn how to be more diplomatic in those executive boardrooms.

I remember there was a programming meeting kind of without me. And this idea was pitched to me to do like some shitty song at the, like some shitty radio idea that's been recycled a million times. Right. And I said, my, I said how much I hated it and how idiotic everybody who thought of this and is pitching it to me was, these things don't help build your relationships in a boardroom.

And then in spite of that, my reaction was not only really negative to those guys in the room, but then I also went away and said okay what can i do that would just actually drive them nuts and do it so i don't even remember we did we did a thing called the buns of steel i don't know if you remember that it was like a competition to find the person with the best butt okay yeah right so so that was my reaction to um to you know this shitty song suggestion and and it worked out because

you know at the end of the day young men who listen to the radio station you know were listening to girls and boys on a microphone explaining why they got their pants down right now getting a picture of their butt taken and and you know that was like kind of early internet well it's edgy stuff the station's called the edge you gotta be edgy right and it worked out okay like i remember that ratings period there was other stations in toronto that were giving away a million dollars right right but so one station's giving away a million there's other para stations giving away a million dollars and we did a competition to find the best butt and the actual prize was just like no prize it was

like a butt plug a giant like 200 pound butt plug as award. Like we put a placard on it and that was the award. So there was no prize. And I was trying to explain to people the journey is more important to the destination. And there was a lot of people on board with that. You know, Dean Blundell show was on board with that. Lots of people worked in the station were on board with that, but senior executives didn't really see that, that being something. And I was just like, fuck it. I mean, I, what are you going to be known for? Do you want to be known for doing the stuff you want to do? Even though if I was left alone, I probably wouldn't have come up with the butt thing. It was just in reaction to the shit ideas that were sent our way. So. ideas that were sent our way so wow okay well say no more now we know why a large corporation like that thought maybe we'll part ways with this renegade this uh this rogue warrior here uh john here we need a more controllable asset or something like that i now i sound like uh atkins or something yeah we need more control hey it was all good they it was a total shock

and surprise when i was let go because we were doing so well. Right. And I felt like I was kind of getting groomed to be the, the guy, you know, like, right. You know, so, Oh, but, but, you know, you know how they say everything happens for a reason and you kind of float that mantra when something negative happens to you. And sure enough, everything happens for a reason. And I started getting phone calls from edge clients saying, Hey, can you help me? Can you help me do this? Can you help me think of this? And all of a sudden the business was born you know kind of within a week yeah no that's a

great story like it's it's not even that things happen for a reason it's more like that you uh you adapt right like you essentially uh you and uh you make the what do you call you make chicken salad out of chicken shit basically what is it what is that atmosphere uh yeah it's more like when life gives you lemons you paint that shit gold i think that's it yeah so how do we get you uh to mlse because i think that's when i first meet you i don't think i ever met jonathan the inside edge guy i just knew of it we did exchange emails when i was at the edge because i was a fan of like i said before like people putting their life on you know and I think you had an added advantage at that time because you clearly understood kind of the search world and,

and, you know, most bloggers didn't know. Well, that's my digital marketing background. I totally just took all this stuff and it went both ways. Like I would use my site as a, as a sandbox and do cause and effect, uh, trial and error move SEO techniques. And then I would kind of take that into the B2B software world once I discovered what kind of work there. But yeah. And I could see that where I could see it happening. Like blogger X is just putting a blog out there and crossing their fingers. But you were making announcements of certain things within industry and within certain industries to get the eyeballs on it. And so I felt like I understood what you're doing. And I remember I did send you a couple notes over the years saying,

like, I respect what you're doing, and I don't get why everyone hates you. Well, thank you. And I know, you know what I think of me when I got a lot of emails like that, and sometimes I need to see the face. So my memories of John are sort of MLSE memories, because we could actually, back in the day, when you could go face-to-face with somebody, this is a previous era of our universe here.

But, like, for example, and did you just like, how did you get the MLSE? You just applied for the spot because you had a kind of a significant social media role at MLSE. Yeah, it was a, it was a blast too. The, the, so I was doing my own thing and a friend of mine that I was partnering on with a lot of different, you know, builds, website builds and whatnot. He told me about MLSC, we're looking for a social media person. And so I kind of looked into it. And at the time, one of my clients was the NBA

in Canada. So it was Dan McKenzie and the guys who were behind the NBA in Canada so I want to say my client was the NBA which sounds so sexy but then you say NBA Canada and it's like well okay that's that's okay still close enough but uh they were a great client and uh a lot of fun to work with and I was uh you know I was I was a basketball player and I was you know I felt like I could speak that language so I was helping them here and there and their office was in like I could speak that language. So I was helping them here and there. And their office was in Air Canada Center, like on the same floor as as many MLSC people. Right. And through that, I got an introduction. And I wasn't looking for a full time role, I was just looking to be like how I am now just a strategist consultant. And,

and then I met a couple guys within MLSC and in a you know it was it was a great opportunity because they didn't know kind of what they had they didn't have social accounts yet right you know and i was like oh my god let's get on board let's do this i know exactly what to do and i just want and it was the teams i grew up watching right i was a tfc season seed holder already and and so i was a fan of the soccer i was a tfc season seed holder already and and so i was a fan of the soccer i was a i went to the first raptor game i remember you know skydome like i was a fan of wow alvin uh alvin williams had the 30 something points what a player do i have the right name wait what alvin williams why no alvin williams was the point guard who's the

uh who had the 30 something points who? Damon? No, no, no. It wasn't Damon. Here, I'll come up with it. Somebody had a big monster. My memory is not good. I know. You keep talking. I recorded this game to VHS, this first-ever Raptor game.

And Alvin, you chat me up, and I'm going to find out who scored those points. So a big fan, obviously a big fan of the Leafs. Grew up watching the Leafs all my life. And then I thought, you know, I could probably knock this one out of the park. And it was actually, like, this is a lesson to anyone thinking about, you know, changing jobs or careers. It was the lowest pay I've ever received. Alvin Robertson, by the way, before we leave that. So it's Alvin Robertson, of course.

Was he Sean Tabak? Well, he was the opening day center, Sean Tabak, for sure. But there was 30 something i think he scored 30 something points uh in that opening game alvin robertson but okay wait so mlse you're in charge which is you know we know emma and even back then like it was still raptors leafs tfc i don't know if the marlies were part of that too okay but uh that you're telling me they didn't pay you as well as uh chorus did for oh god no like uh like not even close i was a you know i was a you know i was you know helping run a big powerful radio station i rose through

the ranks there i was getting paid fairly well for for for my role and then i i think judging by what mlse was offering in terms of remuneration, but also what they thought the opportunity was. I could tell they weren't like, no, I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but I could tell they're underselling themselves. And I felt like, wow, I can, I'll take that. I'll take that crappy little salary. I don't care.

Cause what I'm going to be able to do here is going to be way bigger and, and probably help me in the, on the, on the other end. Well, that's a very high profile gig. Yeah. So it's good. It's good on the resume end. Well, that's a very high profile gig. Yeah. So it's good. It's good on the resume. So it sounds like you made a, a smart move there. So I did. And, and I quickly kind of ran through those ranks. I kind of, you know, not, you know, at, in the, in the radio world,

I was like, you know, I started the recycling committee. Like I was really committed to the community of the people I worked with and trying to, trying to, you know, high tide raises all boats. But then in the MLSC world, I just kind of kept to myself. I just, I didn't, you know, you weren't going for drinks after work or like, it was just, you and Berkey weren't going for a, like a hot dog after the game. Not at all. I tied ties. He does not tie ties. We come from two different schools, but the, you know know i didn't really have that kind of relationship with people i worked with there i just kind of went in for the work did the work tried to break new ground with showing how social can be in the moment and and

you know really conversational and really try to grow the grow all that well amazing like i know a few few interactions i'll share that we had uh one was and i i remember and i blogged about it i revisited it lately but uh at some point recently but you invited me to the press box at uh air canada center that's right and i'm just this lowly blogger in his basement uh god i remember because i chose i remember i took a picture, but I chose seat 67. Yeah, because my seat was 69. There you go. I needed the cool bro seat. But that was a big deal for me.

I actually remember I wore a collared shirt that day because I thought, oh, I can't just dress like Mike. I'm here in the media box. But that was for a blogger like me at the time, and I was live blogging the game from the press box. The fact that you actually extended that invitation is like, I remember seeing Joe Bowen, he going off and getting his chocolate.

He was right above us. Do you remember the gun was right above us? Of course. I watched him go to the freezer and grab some chocolate ice cream bars. I don't know what, yeah, Klondike bars or something, but dude,

that was an amazing experience. Like I'll never forget that. That was cool that you did that. So I did that. So it was part of my kind of strategy, you know know but nowadays you would maybe call it influencer marketing or some sure and it would go to some instagrammer so i wouldn't have a chance anymore or a youtuber but what i did was i i i saw this opportunity uh i would go to games and i would sit in the press box there was always empty seat next to me right right so i like, I'd just rather bring somebody and like talk with them. Sure. And so every week I bring somebody and they were from all different walks of life.

Like it didn't have to be like a, you know, a blogger that people read their blog. It was just all different people. And the only thread that connected all those dots were they were people who followed the Toronto Maple Leafs. So you, you know, you could be a, if, you know, I did it a couple of times, people reached out and be like, if I did it a couple of times, people reached out and be like, it's this guy, he's 30 years a fan. He's a garbage man. He just wants to come to game. He's never been. And I'm like, I'm going to make this guy's dreams come true. And I'm going to bring him to this game. I'm going to give him the ice cream bar and he's going to hear Joe Bowen right above him. And when Clark's walking by and like all this amazing

stuff that you can, you know, you can't pay for, you can't pay for that. You can't ever get that. And so I did it quite often and, you know, it translated into, you know, my, my philosophy was there were people who loved the Toronto Maple Leafs their entire life, but never felt the love from the Toronto Maple Leafs their entire life. And my, my whole philosophy. And it's just, it was my marketing philosophy at the edge and later at, at,

at for the teams and later on too. It's like, what if your team could love you as much as you love the team? And I don't care if it's one-on-one and it's going to take a 75 years to get through everybody. It's gotta happen. We have to break the wall down from ivory tower executives counting money, not caring about winning. We have to break it somehow. On that note, what do you remember about the Barilco Sphere Summit, as I call it, and called it at the time? What do you remember about that?

Well, that was kind of part of that, that thread continues. That was part of it because there was these, you know, there was this, there was this community of people online, passionate fans, like who cares what they say? Do they love the team? Yes. Okay. That's the only box that I kind of cared, cared about is do they love the team? Have the team ever listened to them? Has the team ever talked to them or is the team hidden in it? Hidden in an office building and feared what they were going to say.

So, you know, I just reached out to a bunch of guys and I know you're a part of that. And, and it's like, Hey, let's all meet and like have a conversation about, you know, you guys have a lot of influence over leaf fans. We have a, we have even more, you know, more. And what if we actually join, like there is something kind of attractive in their world about going against the system. And I don't want to change that. You keep holding people accountable that you think you need to hold

accountable. But isn't there a way we can work? What if we did a charity initiative together? Or what if we did something together that really connected the forces, the forces of good and evil and the forces of good and evil from the people who were running Leaf blogs? We would be the least worthy evil. But the forces of evil from the Leaf perspective were the people running blogs. So what if we could just join forces? Okay. So to let the listenership give them some details here.

So we met at Wendell clerks at highway seven and 400 and we had appropriate because yes. And it was, I remember the reason for that was that we had to co-ent. So I will explain the people at this meeting. So yourself representing MLSE, I was there representing torontomike.com, but also the reason we had it there was because we wanted a down goes Brown at

this event. And he lives in Ottawa. You can probably, or somewhere around Ottawa, but he, he was going to visit like in-laws and I don't know, King city or something. So we decided we'd meet in the middle,

which was 407. But so down goes Brown was there well before there's, you know, before the athletic was an inkling in anyone's eye or anything of that nature. And, uh, do you remember, uh, bloge saw inkling in anyone's eye or anything of that nature. And, uh, do you remember,

uh, bloge Salmi? I never knew how to say it by way of his blog Salmi, but he used to do these amazing videos of down goes Brown. Like, uh, Carol of the bells would be one people should Google. Cause it had,

uh, it had Damien Cox, Damien Cox. And, uh, uh, who's the, the longtime, uh, fan five who's the, the longtime,

uh, fan 590 beat. Why am I forgetting his name right now? Howard Berger, Howard Berger. So I know, how do I forget Howard Berger, but Howard Berger and Damien Cox doing Carol of the bells.

It was too funny. And a whole bunch of these great videos that they put together. So he's there. Also, I got at least half of the two guys responsible for pension plan puppets, which of course you remember the pension plan puppets. And one of them I know had the handle on Twitter, MLSE. MLSE, yeah, I do remember that.

I'm sure with a snap of a finger, you could have taken that from the poor guy. Yeah, but that wasn't definitely not my style. No, but anyways, I just want people to know that there were attempts to like, you were there of like uh bridging the us bloggers back then because now podcasting is the new blogs but us we were all there to meet you for for dinner and to talk and i thought that was really cool yeah it was a real you know i had to it took three weeks to get somebody to be able to approve that i could pay for a dinner but but once happened, it just felt like the conversation never happened. And why not even start it, even if it didn't go anywhere. It was the same feeling I had in radio. It's like, this is where I get my leaf information, right? Like I, you know, I don't barely listen to the radio. I'm not going to get my leaf information from the

radio, right? I'm going to get it from just the regular guy pension plan puppets yeah or down goes brown anyway so shout out to those guys if they're out there because that was a fun uh a fun night to see those worlds together and mls so so why does it end oh one more quick story and and just just really quick is that i do remember like a toronto mike section at bemo field for a tfc match yeah do you remember that kind of experiment kind of an experiment I worked with. And it worked really well where, you know, TFC was in the low points of, you know, they weren't winning championships.

They were, you know, not doing so hot in the standings. And the stadium wasn't full because of it. Right. So I tried a thing out where I asked people like you and some other folks, you know, there was kind of tech meetup groups and all kinds of different groups to say like hey if you want to come i'll give you like a super deal right and it's kind of like that old model of like campus selling where it's like if you if you sell these 20 trips to new year's eve montreal you get your trip for free

like weddings are like this right like if you want to get married at this resort if you can get 20 of your family members to buy the the package yours is on the house like that's like a wedding model is okay i mean i got married in the distillery districts but i've heard this is the model for remote weddings yeah yeah so that that makes sense so i tried that and you know you did a bunch of people that took took you know and it was fun. It was super fun. People sold tickets and had a lot of fun. You got a little on-field tour kind of thing. Yes, which was cool. It was great. And you facilitated that.

And it was cool because, you know, I didn't have a podcast back then, but readers would kind of meet you and they'd come to the game. And that was really cool. So those are three examples off the top of my head of like my John interactions when you were there at MLSE. And I just think, I thought they were all like really cool experiences for a lowly blogger like myself. Okay.

So why does it end for you at MLSE? Why does anything end, Mike? The, you know, it's the same, it's a tale as old as time that I was, you know, I just wasn't built for that. You know, I was there almost six years, I think., I just wasn't built for that. You know, I was there almost six years, I think. Like, I just wasn't built for that. That's a long time for... It is long.

Even though you're probably in your 40s, right? Yeah, I know. But for the younger set, they would never stay anywhere for six years or four years. Yeah. And my whole thinking was, you know, I picture, like, I close my eyes and picture when I was happiest and I was,

I was more freelance and I was just kind of helping people, a selection of people. And, um, during that time I was, uh, doing some freelance work for Toronto's festival of beer. And so that's Canada's biggest beer festival, an amazing event. I was actually at the edge. I was the first radio sponsor of that event, like whatever, two decades ago. And always kept in touch with the guys who ran it, good friends of mine, lifelong friends of mine to this day. And we always joked, well, they always joke like one day we're going to have enough money to hire you. Like it was always this kind of tongue in cheek thing we talked about. And sure enough, the festival was really growing and I could see how, from from a business perspective I could see how it could grow exponentially and I was doing kind of freelance consulting like coming up with their theme and their their marketing plan for the

year but that was just kind of like a couple days work and then I would like hand it off to them right and you know in a strange twist the sports teams that I was representing never quite made the playoffs during those summers. So I really focused on the beer festivals during the summer, right? Like how a teacher would focus on something else during the summer. Right. And so it worked at like the timing couldn't have been any better for me. So I worked with the beer festival for a number of years. And then we got kind of serious about, you know, I was, I was really big into strategic planning and how to grow a business, not just kind of the marketing element to it. I

felt like I already had that tool. And I felt like I could really help grow this business to, you know, a multimillion dollar, you know, market leading type event. And, and sure enough, I started working for them kind of full time. Okay. Is this when you get sort of introduced to Great Lakes beer or is that a different chapter in your life? Well, I knew I did know Great Lakes ahead of that, but, um, but I remember it was the old, it was older. It was like crappy art. No, you're absolutely right.

You know what? I want to give credit to a guy because he's been a great, I got to give credit to Troy Birch because he really helped, uh, you know know modernize the look and feel of that operation there so they you're right they've been there 30 plus years so the bullet family's only for 30 plus years but i really think troy deserves some kudos and not just because he decided to sponsor a wonderful local podcast uh just drinking my water here, Troy. No big deal. So shout out to Troy Birch. I broke my other one, just FYI. And again, we mentioned this,

your fantastic book, The Shitstorm, that was 2020. People, of course, they can, we talked about how they can pick it up earlier, but it is part of a bundle at Great Lakes. So maybe a quick pause for me here because I want to thank Great Lakes for sponsoring the program.

I also want to thank a couple of other sponsors really briefly here. StickerU.com. They're actually in Liberty Village. So I don't know if you're familiar with StickerU.com, but if in any of your marketing projects, you need any stickers or decals or magnets and a variety of things you can order online at StickerU..com that's also a locally owned business and they're doing great work and you can do that in ottawa because it's a e-commerce so shout out to sticker you.com do you like the watchman you played a lot of them on 102.1 i know you're a rap guy but do you dig the watchman sure you're that's good that's called they don't want to stomp on the bit or whatever right yeah but the but the Watchmen are a great Canadian band and I only bring them up because

their drummer is also a great real estate agent. His name is Sammy Cohn, K O H N. Shout out to Sam. Yeah. Shout out to Sam because, uh, he'll give you a free drum lesson in exchange for any real estate inquiry.

Like, and we all know drummers were the heart of a band. They're like goaltenders, right? Right, exactly. It's drummingupresults.com. So you can go to drummingupresults.com to find out more about the drum lesson. Sammy at sammycone.com to reach out.

Speaking of email addresses, Barb Paluskiewicz runs CDN Technologies. She's the CEO there. And CDN Technologies is your outsourced IT department. So if you're responsible for a computer network, talk to Barb about outsourcing to CDN Technologies. They'll keep you safe and secure. Barb at cdntechnologies.com to chat her up. She's a great sponsor of the program. And of course, Ridley Funeral Home. They're at 14th and Lakeshore here in South Etobicoke. Great members of the community.

I see them all over the place. They'll help out with food drives and with the Franklin Horner people here and all the great charities and et cetera here and local here. Great members of the community. You can pay tribute without paying a fortune and you can learn more at RidleyFuneralHome.com. All right, John, we've got you. Now you're doing this great work of the beer, the festival of beers,

and now you're in Ottawa. So what, is this another opening that you applied for and it turns out it was, it was made for you. Like what brought you to Ottawa? Yeah, my, my wife's family was from here and we were looking for an opportunity to um to come here we have two small kids and uh you know we're thinking about bigger picture and quality of life and and and all those things that you know maybe a parent thinks about. And, uh, I was, uh, approached by a company here, which is kind of like the MLSC of, uh, of, of Ottawa. Right. And, uh, and, you know, they had a really solid, um, kind of plan. They had a really solid offer and, uh, it felt like, uh, you know, it felt, Oh, well paying to move us to Ottawa was also a nice perk, but it was,

it felt like the right thing, really good people who worked there. And, you know, I got to, you know, I got to, you know, exercise my kind of sports muscles once again, you know. Well, you're, you're already a big sports fan. You, you're a big soccer fan. And, you know, like you mentioned your wife's family being from ottawa that that now like all the pieces seem to fit there that and it seems like you're really happy there so uh like i'm happy okay i'll tell you a quick uh story there's a guy there's so back in the day when i was with uh the the sports teams in toronto i got asked to like speak at like marketing events and conferences and whatnot.

So I spoke at one called the CFL Congress and it's all the CFL teams and their ownership groups. They they're in a room and they have guest speakers. So I'm like the guest speaker, right. I'm telling them what they should all be doing. I wasn't a huge CFL fan, but when the red blacks started, because I wasn't really an Argo fan, I just drew an affinity to the red blacks because they were like something new. And if I'm going to cheer for someone, why not cheer for them? I just didn't care enough to not cheer for them. And so I'm at the CFL Congress and I'm like giving like my song and dance of how, you know, you can be better at marketing and here's all the things you can do. And there's this guy in the front row. So like the first few rows are empty, except this one dude, he's an older gent and he's like sweating and he's trying to take notes. Like he's eagerly taking notes. Right. Right. And I'm like, who is this guy? So I kind of use them like any proper speaker. I use them as like a bit almost you know

like don't worry if anyone hasn't taken notes because my friend here in the front row it has them you can read his cheat sheets later it's good we had a laugh i had no idea who he was and turns out he was one of the owners of the red blacks wow and that was kind of my first introduction to to the ownership group and then over time through him, we always kept in touch and he introduced me along the line to some other people. And, and then they did a, you know, they did kind of the, you know, that headhunting search for the right person to fit into their organization. And I was lucky enough to, to be approached and fortunate enough to, to get that offer. And it felt like the right thing for a family to do. And then, you know, COVID kind of took everything over this last year.

And, you know, one thing kind of led to another and, and they, you know, the company that I was so fortunate to work with ended up letting go of most of their people. And I was part of that. So, so it's no, I'm no stranger to getting a show in the door. It's not a big deal. It's a really big deal to someone in their 20s for the very first time. But after it happens over the course of a career,

you learn how to like kind of adjust and pivot with it. Also, there's something to knowing it's not you because like this sounds like a mass layoff due to pandemic. Like that's not on you, John. Like that's, you know, so at least for those people in their 20s who got the same pink slip you got they don't have to go home and say what did i do wrong it was like oh there's a fucking global pandemic there's a shit storm of 2020 happening and there's always

nice segue there there's there's always a stigma to like attach like when i was let go from the edge there's a stigma attached to um you know that that you, like, you were part of it. Right. And, and, you know, the people that stayed, there's, there's a part of the part of those people are like, okay, well, that's just the business, you know, happy trails. And then there's another part that are like, Oh, I was really close with him, I don't know what to do. And then there's the other part to mention something we talked about before. When I was let go, there was a guy named Zeke Myers who I brought into the edge to help run the CASB Awards because he's a top-notch event producer. And we made the CASBs like an amazing event over the years. And he was a big part of that. was a big part of that. And Zeke was the first person called me after I was let go. I don't even know how he heard, but he found out like I was, I was literally walking through across Dundas square to go to the subway, you know, like such a cliche with my box of stuff. You know, I was

really sad. I was crying and, and he, he called and I answered and, and he's like, I'm so sorry. And we had a brief talk and then we're just about to let go. And my other line was ringing and it was Martin Streak. And Martin said, you know, he can't believe it. He's he's you know, he's torn up and it just it's not acceptable. Like there was a lot of anger and hatred to the company, which, you know, dies down over the over over the over time. dies down over time. But in a strange twist, when he was let go almost a year to the day later, I called him when I heard. And he picked up the phone and he didn't say hello. He said, you beat me. And I was like, what? He's like, yeah, I remember last year around this time, I was the second person to call you. And I'm like,

oh, oh yeah, of course. And then he goes, you were the first person. So a cool memory, even though it's a negative thing that happened in both of our lives, a cool memory that we, you know, that, that, that I'll always have. Oh, thanks for sharing that too. And just to close up with the book here, uh, because it's called the shit storm of 2020. So I don. So I don't buy this for my four-year-old, right? What is it? I mean, my seven-year-old reads it and he just calls it The Poopstorm. Okay. He knows it's a bad word, but he calls it The Poopstorm. Because I want to let people listening are wondering, is this a book for adults? Is it a book for kids? So tell, who is it a book for? And then they can get this thing.

It's a book for anyone that was impacted by this year if everybody if you're let go from a job or you had a baby this is your book if if you if it happened to your friends this is your book and it's mike it's it's strange how it works because i you know i'm not enough like i'm like it wasn't on my bingo card to write a book you know what i mean for this year like i just you know i like to write and i like, you know, I'm not an, like, I'm like, it wasn't on my bingo card to write a book. You know what I mean? For this year? Like I just, you know, I like to write and I like to, you know, I think I'm kind of funny sometimes, but I haven't really proved that in the last couple hours with you, but whatever. That'll be your second appearance. We'll be fine. I need a part two. So the whole idea was, uh, I started thinking about what would a bingo card

actually look like for this year. Right. And cause I just got let go. And I'm sitting there looking at a screen thinking, what do I do now? Like I sure I get a great severance, but okay, let's think of something. And I started thinking about, well, I didn't have getting fired from because of a pandemic on my bingo card. And I started typing out all these things that I didn't have on my bingo card in order to write a bingo card, which is like, you didn't have murder Hornets on my bingo card in order to write a bingo card, which is my first thought. You didn't have murder hornets on your bingo card.

I did not have that. And then I kind of stepped back and looked at the page that I just wrote this all on. And it really read like an ABC book. It started with A in Australia for wildfires. And then I just started going from A to Z. And I ended up writing the whole thing. And I was let go at about 1.30. And I wrote this by about about i was done about eight that night yeah and i said you know i think i'm an author let me look at how to self-publish and then i quickly kind of did my homework on that and self-published a book in in 52 days and now it's selling and you can get it at your local bookstore you can go to the shitstorm that was 2020.com it can tell it can send you on the path that you, uh, I don't have the same SEO talent as, uh, our friend Toronto Mike has, but, uh, but you know, maybe organically it just goes.

Well, let's put it this way. It took this book to get you to make your Toronto Mike debut, which I think he hit it out of the park, to be honest. Like as, as I, as I knew you would with or without the book, you were going to be great, but, uh, you know, this got you to zoom in with me from Ottawa. So, uh, I always appreciate your time, Mike. And like I said before, you were early adopter at putting your life on, on a screen. And I have all of the respect in the world from people who do that. And, uh, cause I, I just don't have that, uh, you know, tool in my tool belt, but you did it and you're doing well. And, uh, you know, besides the couple interruptions we had with your, with your, you shelling out your sponsors,

uh, I thought this went pretty good. John, uh, are you going to write another book? Like, is this what you do? You're going to write a couple in the queue. Yes. Okay. So every time you release a book, you got to come back on and, uh, do me a favor. Next time you come come on toronto mike do me a big favor uh be funnier next time okay hey mike you hear about the restaurant in space no the food's okay but no atmosphere oh you know there is that funny i'm gonna use it on my six-year-old tonight because he loves that funny enough for you i'm just trying to i love the dad jokes look we're both dads we love the dad jokes but dude thanks so much for doing this man uh honestly what a pleasure it was to chat you up for like 90 minutes and uh honestly

i had a blast i hope you enjoyed it too yeah thanks for having me mike thanks shout out to all toronto mike uh listeners you're uh you're crushing it And that brings us to our 774th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. John, are you at John Sinden? Across all platforms. Across all platforms. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery, they're at Great Lakes Beer.

Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. CDN Technologies are at CDN technologies Sammy Cone is at Sammy Cone that's ko HN and Ridley funeral home they're at Ridley FH see you all next week This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Rome Phone. Rome Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls.

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