Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - The Definitive MuchMusic Origin Story: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1544

Episode Date: August 31, 2024

In this 1544th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Retrontario's Ed Conroy about the origin of MuchMusic on the 40th anniversary of the Nation's Music Station's launch. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, The Advantaged Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada, The Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball Team and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Here, Much Music. Close to coast, across Canada, in stereo, 24 hours a day. Top music videos and much more. Rock Muse, contests, concerts, specials. Coming to you every day of the week is everything you need. Look at the hearty rock and roll. Hearty rock and roll. Mr. Deacon. Much Music. For less than the price of an album, it's yours.

Johnny! Much Music. Now! All music all the time on the nation's music station much music get yours now Welcome to episode 1544 of Toronto Miked, proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta

in Mississauga and Oakville. The Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team, the best baseball in the city outside the dome with eight championships since 1967. RecycleMyElectronics.ca committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. And Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, returning to Toronto Mic'd as we celebrate 40 years of much music is Retro Ontario's own Ed Conroy. On this day in 1984, exactly 40 years ago, much music went on the air at 6 p.m. After a short from 1923 and Christopher Ward and JD Roberts bursting through a screen, they threw to rushes the enemy within and the much era

was underway. Ed Conroy, FOTM Hall of Famer and proprietor of Retro Ontario. Can we talk about how we got there? What's the origin story of much music? I'd love to talk about the origin story of much music. Have you got a few minutes? For you, I carved out my entire day for this. This is very important to me. The 40th anniversary. Here we are. Yeah, I know. It's a big one, man. I mean, 40th, you know, it's, it's, it's midlife. It's, you know, it's a celebrated number. I don't know what the actual channel is doing for its 40th birthday I would wager a guess nothing unfortunately but we can we can pick up the slack for them but before we dive into the origin story what is that channel now like is that just like Simpsons reruns what is much music today

I mean I think Simpsons reruns is even retro now. I don't even know, mate. I know it's there. I see it. It's listed as a, as an active channel, but I could not tell you, I know it's not music videos, unfortunately. Okay. But they have a big, they have a big presence on Tik TOK. Which also has really nothing to do with the much music that we're celebrating today It's in name only I think And look there's if you're interested in much music

There's an amazing book by Christopher Ward that is out there There's an even more amazing documentary by Shawn Menard called 299 Queen Street West that hopefully one day will be out there. But I got to say as much as a fan that I am of both of those pieces, neither one of them I felt did a great job of hewing it up, right? Like of telling the origin story. They kind of start from the assumption that you just know what it is and it's off to the races.

So I think it's great that we're taking some time out to set it up, right? To explain how we got there. Well, on the 40th anniversary, there's no, there's no one else I even considered to discuss the origin of much music. You are the subject matter expert retro ontario.com You've written about this in great detail on your sub stack which everyone should subscribe to the retro ontario sub stack So I'm glad that you took some time today for like we're gonna do an audio history And I will absolutely have some relevant audio from the time that I'll drop into this episode. So this will be a very thorough

Relevant audio from the time that I will drop into this episode. So this will be a very thorough Much music origin story as told by Ed Conroy from retro, Ontario. Take it away Ed Thanks, Michael. I Always think the best place to start is obviously with Moses Neimer it was all of his idea it came out of of City TV, which he was, he was the creator of. And the music and music appreciation and music celebration was in the DNA of City TV right from the very beginning. And, you know, we talk about the story really started the origin story of much music. It started even before city TV.

You have to go back to the late sixties when Moses was working at a recording studio in Toronto called thunder sound, right? He was a business guy. He was sent in to fix this recording studio because they were losing a ton of money. And he managed to turn it around, make it super profitable. And that was mostly because of the jingles industry in Canada at the time. It was selling beer and things like that, but getting these amazing artists to come in and sing jingles. So Phil Sheridan, I believe, was the engineer that he stole from another studio, brought him into Thunder Sound. Thunder Sound becomes this absolutely

cutting edge music studio in Toronto where all these people want to go record. People like Ann Murray, people like Murray McLaughlin, they all start to hang around Thunder Sound and meet this guy. Everyone's heard, oh, this guy, Moses Nimer, you got to meet him. He's this eccentric guy, media guy. And so that was really where he got to know the Canadian music industry, because it didn't really exist until then, right? It was all coming out of, there were Canadian artists, but they were all being managed by people out in New York City and California. And so this was the

year zero really of what we now call CanCon and the Canadian music industry. So of course, when Flash Forward Moses meets this other kind of interesting gang of people, Izzy Switzer and his wife Phyllis Switzer and Ed Cowan and they're trying to put together this over the air, UHF channel, channel 79 in Toronto call letter CITY. Moses comes on board and suddenly it's no longer just about a cable 10 channel in Toronto. It's got some vision. It's got some big ideas, McClellan ask ideas behind it courtesy of Moses. And the first thing he does before they're on the air, before they've, you know,

even figured out what exactly it is they're going to do. He says, we need a theme song. We need a song that is sort of a mission statement of what it is that City TV is going to be all about. And so he looks back at his friends from Thunder Sound and he thinks there's nobody better to do that than Mr. Tommy Ambrose, who at the time, you know, was the, the number one jingles singer in, in, in Canada.

And he hires him to come up with a theme song for City TV, which Tommy and his writing partner, Gary Gray, go off, come back with this beautiful, yet maudlin song called People City. ["People City"] Find yourself in people's cities Stay awhile if you can With folks who will be tomorrow's places Kicking the traces

Showing you places in Toronto That's people's cities where love takes hold Makes old dreams happen She makes you feel things, so buried feelings, take on old meaning In Toronto, that's People City Winter's white in People's City Green ravines make summer pretty When leaves start to turn, then the rainbow burns That's when you learn that you're in Toronto That's People City, yes, People City, we're in Toronto. So nice to be here.

Yes, it's nice to live here. Very, very, very nice. And that was the very first thing when City TV went on the air September 29th, 1972 was basically a music video. Okay. It was a music video of the city of Toronto with this beautiful song, People City. So I always say the fact that that is what kicked off City TV. It was really a portent of what was to come okay let me jump in just to let the listenership know that there's you you

had put together a fantastic mini doc on people city by Tommy Ambrose well done I learned so much about that song and and in the early days of City TV and what it represented so kudos to you for that great piece on your YouTube channel. Thank you. I mean, it was one of those things where that song, I mean, by the time I was of the age to watch City TV, it was being phased out. But I always wondered what was the deal?

Like what was that all about? And so when I had that wonderful opportunity to do a deep dive on it and interview Moses and interview Tommy, I learned all of this stuff about Thunder Sound and about all of that information that I just relayed. And it allowed this context of, okay, much music didn't just come along, you know, because MTV existed, we had to copy MTV. It actually had a very interesting, organic life of its own, right, that had nothing to do with America. So as we track the timelines here on our way to 1984,

let's just mention the fact that the launch of CityTV, channel 79, cable cable 7 was in 1972 That's right and When you look back, unfortunately, there's not much of this material that survived But if you look back at the early programs that were on city tv in 1972 1973 1974 A lot of them were music programs. Because again, Moses believed in three tenets of City TV, okay? He believed the importance of news,

the importance of movies, and the importance of music. Those were the three pillars of this channel that was meant for young people in the city of Toronto, which at the time was this very exciting, young city experiencing growth. And it was, you know, it's crazy to think about this now, but it was being underserved for those three things. We didn't have a lot of local news. We didn't have certainly a lot of movie options.

We certainly didn't have much music other than, you know, at the time you had programs that were on CFTO like the pig and the whistle or the Abby tavern singers, these really corny programs that were hangovers from the sixties, from the early sixties. Um, they weren't modern at all. So the City TV music programs were very modern. So my favorite example is Boogie. Was the forerunner of electric circus.

It was a disco, live disco program that happened in the studio at City TV and it was live bands sometimes, sometimes DJs. And it was just young kids of all different backgrounds, uh, dancing, which was remarkable at the time. Along with these shows like boogie, they also broadcast pop clips, right? I feel like pop clips, which was an American show, but this is a indication of things to come. Yeah. So the other one that was very important was music city was, it was a program that

featured a lot of local bands and it would sort of give them a, give them their break so they could say, Oh, I was on city TV last night. Um, and then yes, pop clips was a syndicated program that was created by, uh, Mike Naismith of the monkeys, uh, something, you know, I, this is like a trivia pursuit question. Like a lot of people attribute him to basically inventing music video as a genre, which is bananas really, but, would use pop clips which thankfully somebody decided to call music videos music videos because I think they were going down that road of Calling them calling all of them pop clips, which is lame, but They were running music videos between

Movies and such so if a movie ran short and they had 10 minutes between the movie ending and the news starting, they would run music videos. So I've spoken to Moses many times over the years. It's very apparent that he knew back then that this was an emerging art form. It was going to be popular. It was gonna be profitable. And he wanted to get in on it, but everything at that time was working against him in terms of the Canadian broadcast infrastructure. So all of these things,

he was swimming against the tide, unfortunately. I think now we jump ahead, probably the next most important thing in the gestation that happened was in 1978, which is when Strum acquired, uh, basically the largest ownership stake in City TV, because City TV, let's be honest, they were not doing very good. But the first four years, five years. They had a lot of trouble selling advertising.

They had a lot of problems with reception. So you had to kind of be in the downtown core to receive City TV. When the CN Tower finally went up, they got a transmitter up there that helped get the signal out a bit further. But these were big issues because you can't sell ads if you're only reaching a small portion of a metropolitan area. Anyway, so yeah, Chum comes along, put some money in. Alan Waters and Moses, you know, famously get on like a house on fire and they start

talking about what can we do? What can we, what assets does Chum have that can help City TV and what could we do that's innovative? So they come up with this idea because of Music City, the program I mentioned earlier, what can we do to take Music City to the next level? Why don't we broadcast concerts, like full concerts that are happening in Toronto, and then we can simulcast the concert on Chum, on the radio, in stereo. Wow.

Is next level because obviously everything was mono up until this point. So they come up with this concept and they call it the new music. We're ready so let's check you out. For a full blast you need two things. Your TV set turned on to City TV channel 79 cable 7 and your stereo tuned to Chum FM 104.5. Place your speakers approximately five feet away from either side of your TV set. Now turn your stereo up, the sound on your TV down and stand by. It's Saturday night at 11. A special time. That's when it all happens, right here in downtown Toronto. See the night light shine in the city. Hear the big city beat of the strip, high and alive. Tonight, CityTV

and Chum FM bring you an exciting experience inside and sound. The experience is the new music. The new music was originally concerts. See, Ceri, I only learned this from you on your sub stack. I had no idea the original concept for the new music. Yes, it's been lost in the mythologizing of course that goes along with the real new music is JD and Jeannie, untouchable. But the original run of new music was concerts that were simulcast on Chum.

And we're talking about like Bruce Colburn and Murray McLaughlin, Down Child Blues Band, Carol Pope, Max Webster. Max Webster and you know, they weren't, they were very eclectic in these bands, right? It wasn't all just rock and roll. They did the Canadian brass, you know, they did these kind of cheesy lounge guys sometimes. So it was, it was a mixture, right? It was, it was very, very cool, very eclectic and obviously caught on, but this whole idea of

music journalism was very new. And of course, enter from stage left, Mr. John Martin, okay? The, you know, the other architect of much music. And he was, of course, from Manchester, you know, the most exciting city in the world in terms of music at that time. And much like our friend Peter Gross, fellow FOTM Hall of Famer, Ed, he was driving a taxi, right? Yeah, you know, it's funny, I don't know. I don't really take taxis anymore if this still is a thing. But I feel like in Toronto in the 70s,

you had a really good opportunity. If you got in a taxi, you're going to end up with somebody that is very interesting, you know, that right. Is, you know, that's got ideas for programs and such. So, yeah, it happens. Stance, Moses ends up in a taxi and his drivers, this crazy, you know, Manchester fellow who is going on about I got a great idea for a program is basically taking what was at the time, the cutting edge music journalism paper in the UK was called the new music express or the NME and turning it into a show. I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't rocket science. And it was probably one of those things where he was frustrated that nobody else had done that because, wow, there's all these bands and all this insane stuff happening, but nobody's really talking about it on television.

You have to buy a newspaper or a magazine to read about it. So of course, Moses is interested in characters. He always is, always has been, and he likes this guy. And so he says, oh, sure. Let's, let's take a, let's take a shot on this. And of course, JD Roberts was part of the new music concert series because he would introduce the bands when they were in the studio. So they already had JD. Jeannie Becker, I believe was at chum at the time and was, you know, that was, it

was all, they were all in the orbit of each other. and was, you know, it was all, they were all in the orbit of each other. And so John Martin comes in, packages up this program called the New Music, hits in the fall of 79 and just absolutely blows up. Like absolutely blows up because nobody has seen a television program quite like this before. Welcome to The New Music. I'm JD Roberts. And I'm Jeanne Becker. First on the show tonight, one of the most decadent people in the rock world.

Since leaving Yes in 1973, Rick Wakeman has undertaken some extravagant tours using 45 piece orchestras and 48 voice choirs. Even though he's lost a small fortune on some ill-advised enterprises, Wakeman's hung in there to produce some of the most commercially successful fusions of rock and classical music in the 70s. Not only is Rick Wakeman a successful musician but he's also the director of 11 companies handling everything from musical instruments and recording studios to renting out his fleet of Rolls Royces. He also owns a racehorse, which he keeps in his stable outside of his mansion in the English

countryside. Here's Rick Wakeman. He's so straight, he's a weirdo. Ed, bootlegged videotapes of the new music would find their way to New York City, right? This is the legend. This is the legend, and I think there's a lot of truth to it that you had people, um, in New York, Robert Pittman, uh, his name comes up quite a lot. He was basically the architect of MTV,

but he was also doing stuff, um, in New York City on WNBC. And he was watching, uh, yeah, VHS tapes, VHS recordings of the new music. And, you know, like a lot of Canadian culture, I think people from around the world steal it because they just think, well, no one's really going to notice. No one's going to know where this came from. But basically the formula was it wasn't, it wasn't just the journalism. Like that was a big part of it, but it was news on bands that are touring.

It was bits of music videos. It was bits of concert performance. Like it was, you know what I mean? It was, it was a hodgepodge of music. And again, not catering to any one genre so it was if you're a fan of music you're gonna you're gonna dig this show so if you will it was a television version of Rolling Stone magazine yes now I mean Rolling Stone I would argue was a little bit more political than the NME I mean they were all political I guess ultimately but I think they avoided the comparisons to Rolling Stone just because they didn't want, again, to be stuck in

that American orbit of everything having to do with the Vietnam War or all those things. They wanted it to be about Toronto and about these exciting British bands. Because this is when the New Wave and Post-Punk and Ska and was happening. And then you had all this amazing reggae and ragga that was coming up from the Jamaican artists. And so I think they wanted to avoid coming up from the Jamaican artists. And so I think they wanted to avoid just being covering American bands. So anyways, yeah, new music. Absolutely. People still talk about it. You know, poor old JD, I don't think he's ever going to escape, you know, people reminding him about that because, you know, he always had an eye on being, you know, quote unquote, a serious journalist. But I think he was a serious journalist.

You know, he was absolutely doing the work of a real journalist covering those bands in the seventies and eighties in Toronto. You know, I don't I don't see that being any less important than talking about an American presidential election. Do you know he should embrace this and just a quick anecdote is this past weekend, JD Roberts was in town because he was being honored as a member of the Mississauga legends row. And I had the PR person for Mississauga legends Row reached out to me like would I attend and cover? These are the people coming and I look at the list of attendees and there's some pretty big names there

Simu Liu a lot of big big names there But the name that jumped out at me was JD Roberts because I've been trying to get JD Roberts on Toronto Mike for For many years and he doesn't seem particularly Interested even though Jeannie Becker has been on. And that was fantastic. But bottom line is I said to the PR person, I will sing the praises of Mississauga Legends Row from the rooftops on Toronto Mike, on my blog, everywhere. You can get me a one on one with JD Roberts. And she very nicely said, let me see what I can do.

I only heard crickets after that. So he's no luck. He's not yet an FOTM, but he was in town just about a week ago. You know what I have heard through, you know, mutual friends. He is not, it's not that he doesn't want to talk about these things. I mean, I saw him on, I think it was Q maybe years and years ago. Um, and he was talking about it. He was talking about

much music and he was talking about new music and all that. I think what happens is he's afraid that people are going to start saying, Oh, why are you a right wing, Trump stuff, Trump guy and all this stuff. And then he ends up getting caught up in arguing about that. And it goes totally off topic. Now, little anecdote, I've followed, I've messaged him on Instagram. He always writes me back. I've posted a picture of him once and you know, he wrote me and said thank you. So you know, I think he's proud of what he did and of course he's on a much larger stage on Fox News

than he ever was here. But yeah, I think the work that he did was crucial because it really did inform all of the stuff that came after. So here we are. Well, I'm just gonna send a message to JD. He might be listening right now to tell JD, if you only knew, sir, how disinterested I am in talking about Donald Trump. If you only knew my interest level

on discussing your work at Fox News and covering Donald Trump's presidential run is near zero. So I'm just letting JD Roberts know, I want to talk about 1979. But as I pass the baton back to you, we're talking about much music turning 40 years old today. But when we look back at that date, August 31st, 1984, another station in the United States had already been on the air for over three years. We forget that MTV launches in August 1981. That's right. And a lot of people in Toronto We forget that MTV launches in August 1981.

That's right. And a lot of people in Toronto and in the rest of the country had these gigantic satellite dishes. I don't know if you remember that, the light of a backyard. And so these people were watching much music. A lot of bars in the city would advertise, sorry, MTV, they would advertise, we have a satellite, we're showing MTV and you'd

go and they'd have it playing in there. It was a big deal. And in Toronto, in terms of broadcast, the only other outlet other than city TV that was showing music videos was channel 47 cable four also known at the time as CFMT and they had these kind of low budget like ultra low budget shows that I think the first one was called Metro Hits and uh I believe he was on your program. He's unfortunately now gone. Bob Segherini. Yes, sir. Was a host of, I think, Metro Hits for a little while. Samantha Taylor before the big MTV, sorry, CFMT shows started to hit.

She was on Metro Hits. So clearly, you know, this infrastructure for wanting to show music videos was really kicking off in the city. Um, and Moses of course, wanted to get in front of that and had wanted to get in front of that for ages, but he'd been held back because of the CRTC and what was allowed and what wasn't allowed. And he actually took a meeting or took a bunch of meetings with Robert Pittman in New York because he thought, okay, well, if I can't do my own thing, then at least can I simulcast

MTV? And I think the pitch was City TV would show movies until midnight and then City TV would basically air MTV from midnight until 5 a.m. or 6 a.m. and then it would go back to City TV. They couldn't come to a deal. If you ever or when you get Moses on a mic, you've got to ask him to tell you the story. I will not do it because it's epic about this negotiation he had with Robert Pittman. It's a classic story, but anyways, it didn't work out. And so that idea got shelved. And then again, he's back to square one of,

well, what are we going to do? I've looked, you know, now with the ability to go through old tapes and you can see it, it's on YouTube. You can look at those early days of MTV in 1981. And it was very, very different. I mean, it was boring. It was, you know, like people sitting in a studio that looked like it was on the 20th floor of some building in New York City and just reading names, you know, next is this and then we'll have this. It was on the 20th floor of some building in New York City and just reading names. You know, next is this and then we'll have this. It was like a radio station with no personality and no visuals.

And that's what it was. Okay. So it's funny. We'll get to this obviously, but growing up, we always heard that MTV was just the most incredible thing and you'd see it in Hollywood movies. You know, I was thinking about it in Ferris Bueller, there's a bit, you know, you see an MTV bumper.

We always thought, oh man, we are just getting ripped off up here in Canada. Like we're being denied this amazing cultural institution called MTV and much music is, we, you know, poor man's version of MTV. And then here, all these years later, you're able to go back and compare the two of them. And you realize that MuchMusic was the far superior product. That's not just pride. I think that's empirical. I think I invite anybody that has doubts to go back and use YouTube and just Compare and contrast and tell me which was the better outfit, you know

Love it now You're not telling the story obviously because I got to get Moses on the program to dive into this negotiation with Robert Pittman on bringing MTV to Canada to air on City TV Overnights because apparently there, as I learned from you, there's a, you can circumvent the need for a CRTC approval if it happens after midnight. Is it like gremlins or something?

I don't know. You know, I've read so many CRTC, so much CRTC paperwork from that era. It's absolutely Orwellian. Right. It's mind numbing. It's so stupid and so frustrating because you start to get a sense as great as our television was, it could have been even better if they just let, let the creators cook, you know what I mean?

Instead of all of this government interference and all these regulations, which were in theory there to protect Canadians basically from getting swamped in American culture, but I feel it ended up having the opposite. So we're about to dive into some of this really exciting CRTC stuff as we're about to hit May 4th, 1983, which is over a year before Much Music launches 40 years ago. Today, I wanted to imagine what it was like. You're not speaking of the details, but I feel like they're negotiating. Moses and Robert, they're going at it, and then there's a deal, and then maybe at the last minute, Robert Pittman, he adds a million dollar fee to the deal.

And then Moses says, you're reneging on our deal. And then Robert Pitman is something like, pray, I do not renege further. And then Moses is like, pardon my French, but it's like, fuck it. I'll do it myself. That sounds like the end of Empire Strikes Back. But yes, I think it was something similar to that. Okay. So I'll get the details from Moses, but I don't know. Please. That's how I imagine Back, but yes, I think it was something similar to that. Okay.

So I'll get the details from Moses, but I don't know. Yes, please. That's how I imagine it. That's how I imagine it. One of the infinite amount of incredible stories that he can recount with every detail as if you're in the room with him and Robert Pittman. It's wonderful. Okay.

But yes, so 1983, finally the CRTC loosens up, starts accepting proposals for pay television because pay television really is where all this stuff is coming from. This is not basic cable. This is not over the air free cable. This is ATV where you're paying a subscription, had existed in America since the 70s with HBO and Showtime. That was another thing, right? Growing up, you heard about HBO and Oh my God,

they're showing movies with nudity and they're uncut and all this stuff. And we could only dream of such things. Finally, we get, uh, this opportunity and Moses actually goes into propose a movie channel. He, he, he puts aside the music, he was so frustrated with it all the time. And his movie channel sounded amazing. It was going to be called Premiere and it was going to be a celebration of Canadian film, but also international film. And he loses that one.

He loses that one to Super Channel, who were out west and First Choice who were in the east. And then they also allowed a channel on the air called the Sea Channel. And I think we've talked about this before. It was an arts channel that was overseen by Ed Cowan, who was one of the original City TV guys. The idea of Sea Channel was they're going to show opera and French new wave films and concerts. It was very highfalutin, I think it might be the word. And really we weren't ready for it because it basically didn't even live a year. Well, we're still not ready for it.

We're probably more ready for it back then than we are now. Well, you remember Bravo in the nineties. That was Moses's attempt to sort of tame the sea channel idea. And I think it worked for a little while. And then of course it now, I think it probably shows the Simpsons too, right? I mean, there, there's no boundaries. These channels are meaningless. They have no character anymore. Right. So anyways, we're getting terribly off topic. We're in the pay TV era in the early eighties.

And so now Moses does see a way forward because now we can get a channel on the air that is 24 seven music, but it'll be pay TV. It won't be a free channel like city. And obviously we've got the resources of chum. We've got the Team that has produced the new music now at this point had been on the air for four years You got John Martin you got all these all these characters coming through the doors at city Entertainment reporters and such and they have a pretty good handle now on what we can do. They take the formula of city, which is, you know,

storefront street front access out in the area, not a studio on the 50th floor like MTV. We're going to be out there at the concerts, at the signings, at the record store and covering it like, like city pulse, basically. The city is your studio. The city, the city is your studio. And before we get too far, so at this point, does he have a name for his, uh,

24 seven? Well, yeah, that's another thing that, uh, you know, you know, the old saying that there's many, many people take credit for a victory. I don't know who was the actual person that basically probably had chum written on a whiteboard or a chalkboard and they started moving the letters around and oh much. That's it's an anagram for chum of course It's an anagram a mind blow for some people who never thought of that Yes, I you know, but again you try to figure out who that person was a lot of people want to take credit for it It's a it's a beautiful little thing

Artistic flourish right? It's the best name really when you think about it. It's perfect It's the best name really when you think about it. It's perfect. And so they get it. They had a couple of other people were pitching music channels. You know, famously there was one guy, I have a bit of footage of this on my channel, there was a guy from Quebec that wanted to do a music channel that was basically hosted by puppets. And the idea was that you could then dub it into any language and sell it around the world. And they were really scary looking puppets. But I guess in his pitch was just these puppets would queue up a music video and then, and that's all it was. So of course,

it wasn't very serious competition. And there is also a demo reel that is on YouTube that was basically what Chum showed to the CRTC that has clips from New Music and City TV and gives them a little taster of this is what it's going to look like. them a little taster of this is what it's going to look like. And, you know, they kind of sense this was an easy one of a slim dunk, if you will. So they started to use the city TV as kind of a, a testing ground for the kinds of programs that they would show them on a, on a theoretical hayV station that's called Much Music. Now, the one I remember most fondly, of course, is Toronto Rocks. So Toronto Rocks exists before Much Music launches

40 years ago today. Or is it a tie? I just think of Toronto Rocks from this era. Toronto Rocks came on before Much Music. It started in January of 84, maybe February of 84. But you got to remember, I mean, yes, it had John Majore, who I never understand why he wasn't one of the first VJs on much, because he had been a VJ at CFMT on Video Hits

with Samantha Taylor. And he was obviously a- What do you mean video singles? It was called video hits. Oh, on CFMT? I feel like CBC was video hits. That was the CBC, sorry, you're correct. Okay, CFMT is video singles.

Look, we gotta print the facts on this program. Toronto Rocks was very important because what it did was it allowed people that didn't have pay TV- Yeah, like me. To see music videos. Right, exactly. because what it did was it allowed people that didn't have pay TV. Yeah. Like me. To see music videos. Right.

Exactly. And everybody has these anecdotes about rushing home to get home for four o'clock to watch John Major, but it also, yeah, it was, it was that setup was, was a bit of a test. You also had the chum 30, uh, which was obviously a radio program, but was also adapted for television would air on the weekends was hosted by originally Mr. Roger Ashby in studio. Uh, and he would introduce, you know, the, the,

the new music videos that were hitting that week. This is Toronto television city TV channel 57 cable seven everywhere. we were hitting that week. Saturday October 29th in the next hour we'll see videos by Elvis Costello John Cougar Melanchan the fix and a new live version of true by Spandau Ballet let's start off the countdown this week with a former number one song in Toronto number 27 this week on chum Michael Sembello's maniac the most, I think the most interesting thing they did as a pilot for much that gets forgotten about, I think, because there was a lot of stuff happening in 1983 at Citi. They go out and shoot this thing called I Am A Hotel, which was a Leonard Cohen, I don't even know if you want to call it a concept video or a concept album, but it was basically a 30 minute video with Leonard Cohn.

It was shot at the King Edward Hotel in Toronto where we're going to be soon for the Hollywood Sweet Breakfast. Hello to David Kines. Shout out to David Kynes. Shout out to David Kynes. And yeah, it was, it remains kind of a very strange piece of entertainment, shot on video, very eerie, beautifully filmed, and it's Leonard Cohen for God's sake. So worth checking out because I think that was sort of them saying, oh, we can make our own music videos. We aren't just gonna show music videos

from around the world, we can create them here. And then of course you get Bernie Finkelstein and setting up the funding for MuchFact, which was allowing Canadian bands to get money to make music videos basically. Amazing. And here, before we get to the launch of Much Music, there's another program I would love to discuss because you make a good point. Why wasn't John Major a day one VJ on Much Music? Christopher Ward was. And this might be a good time for you to tell us about City Limits. So, yeah, that's, you know, people want to talk about what was the actual blueprint of Much Music.

And I think it's safe to say it was City Limits because all these other programs were important. But City Limits is what captured that essential. You know, if you want to just boil down that that Moses City TV ethos of you're showing the control room, you're

shooting in the control room. You've got people that are doing a job, uh, at the control boards, but they're also appearing in these programs. Um, you've got characters doing sketches, you know, you've got obviously Christopher Ward was coming out of Second City. So he knew people like Mike Myers, who's coming in and doing the Wayne character and just having fun. I mean, I think when you look at City Limits now, it just looks like the best time. And they're just experimenting, they're doing all kinds of cool stuff with CSO and chroma keying in multiple

Christopher ward characters. And they're also, you know, I think what was the hook to was they're showing alternative music videos. So not the sort of stuff you're going to see with Roger Ashby. You're seeing like the weird stuff. And it came on late at night as well. So there was a whole cult vibe to it that you're up late at night and you're hanging out with these people.

And so that was the blueprint. You throw in a dash of new music and a bit of this and a bit of that. But really, City Limits was the blueprint. Friday and Saturday nights for people who like to stay up late. City brings you all night video. City Limits, when everyone else is signing up. We're just warming up from 1 30 a.m. City limits Finally Toronto gets all night video City Limits

premieres tonight Okay, so somehow Moses and the good people at Chum City They actually get granted this license by the CRTC to start a 24-7 music station. But as you tell that part of the story here, and now I guess we're back in 1984, early 1984, but who was the competition for that license? Who almost got the 24-7 music station license from CRTC? Well, I don't think there was any real competition. I mean, there was,

uh, as I mentioned, the puppet guy, um, I, I think Rogers had, uh, had a competing bid. Um, and then there was a real estate guy. I mean, it, none of them. I mean, it, none of them. And again, I invite anyone that's super interested to go watch the CRTC video cause it's, it's online. It's on my channel. Um, you very quickly get a sense that none of them would have done anything remotely

close to what, um, uh, Trump city was proposing and I would liken it to just a blowout. I mean, like a nuke went off because nobody can even begin to hold a candle to what these guys were proposing. And I don't think, you know, as much as we like to beat up on the CRTC, there was no way they were gonna deny this thing from happening.

It was like, you know, it was ready to blow. It was that moment in time and you couldn't hold it back any longer. You had to let it go. I would like to experience like a sliding doors moment where the Rogers bid, which by the way was with Molson. So it was a Rogers Molson bid. It was, they were going to call it the music channel That wins and what we're talking about today 40 years later about the music channel

Well, it's it's really funny too mike because you know rogers now is this behemoth and we're all you know Annoyed with them and they're in a daily part of our lives. Unfortunately for for a lot of people but back then they were the scrappy little outfit and the television division anyways, they were trying so hard to get in on anything. They tried to launch a kids channel before YTV. They teamed up with TV Ontario for this thing they wanted to call a galaxy. And basically it was, you know, polka dot door reruns and they got shut out on that and they got shut out on the music channel.

So they were kind of hurting in that era, but there was no denying the people from Chum City knew what they were doing. They had a plan. They'd prove proven time and again, they could execute all these ideas and it was exciting. And if you watch, it's funny because at the time JD Roberts was an entertainment reporter on City Pulse. He was also the cohost of New Music, but his real kind of bread and butter was entertainment reporter. And so he's reporting from Hull, Quebec or City Pulse on these CRTC hearings.

So it's very fascinating to go back and watch that now. ...of tonight JD Roberts is covering the big entertainment story, one that City TV is very excited about. JD is in Hull,, following the CRTC hearings concerning specialized pay TV services. This week's hearings represent perhaps the most significant development in the Canadian music industry in the last 13 years. The licensing of a 24 hour a day, 7 day a week, Canada wide satellite television channel dedicated solely to music. The process of a CRTC hearing is to bring together all the players. In this case, Rogers broadcasted, in conjunction with Molson's Breweries, Joe Chartrand's Montreal-based

CMTV, independent Michael Sheridan, and CityTV, who were first up before the commission. Each applicant is given 30 minutes to make their pitch. Some, like much music, use videotape to help explain their proposal. Over the last six months, music video has become the most celebrated phenomenon in the world of entertainment. Because we're already in the business at City TV, we have available to us a method by which we can get in and do a good job without going broke. So that's the first thing. Second thing is we're obviously the most experienced people at this work in the country,

and that's also a point of uniqueness. Short runs CMTV will broadcast in English and in French, plans export sales and stylized caricatures instead of video jocks. We have consolidated a 24 hour music network in Europe where the use of caricatures permits us to simulcast in German, French, and English. These are all very unique aspects of our proposal. Launchers Broadcasting envisions something closer to radio on television.

I'm mixing the four basic elements, as you you know the four basic elements of the production elements the music videos the The announcer material or the video disc jockey material and the commercial public service material and Michael Sheridan plans a narrowly focused increased cost service because I believe that there is only a small audience and my higher price You know it evens out the financial instability that has so far plagued pay TV has entered another ground rule. Commission Chairman Andre Bureaux stated at the opening of the session that while program content is important, financial strength is crucial and applicants not in that position shouldn't expect to be successful in obtaining a license.

We want to make sure that if we look at any proposal this time, there is a very good chance of viability. We don't want to take that risk. I don't think that Canada has the...we can afford any risk like that. Some people may wonder what the FUSS is all about, a television channel dedicated solely to music. But as past experience has shown us, such a medium is beneficial to both an audience and an industry. In the states, MTV or music television, a coast to coast satellite service has become the biggest phenomenon in recent television history. MTV goes behind the scenes with Debt Ludl and Mick Jagger on the set of her new video.

Its wall to wall music videos, showcase concerts, interviews and national music news delivered by VJs or video jocks now reach some 18 million homes. And the channel is recovering from a $37 million deficit with revenues that now stand at $25 million a year. Not near the scope of the networks but substantial in anybody's books. In Canada, music television comes in many forms. NBC's Friday night videos, video singles, Good Rockin' Tonight, and the city shows New Music, Toronto Rocks, Chum 30, and City Limits. Those shows have so far managed to satisfy an audience,

but people like WEA Records president Stan Kuhlenfield, an all music channel, could greatly benefit the industry. I think the US experience has proved that video had a lot to do with generating and getting new acts off the ground, and I would welcome such a channel in Canada. I think it would be great for us, and I also think it would be great for our Canadian artists. That view is shared on an artistic level by Bernie Finkelstein, manager of such talents as Bruce Coburn and Rough Trade. What's happened in the U.S. is that I tend to feel that it's basically saved the music

industry. It was in a lot of problems until MTV came along and it's very exciting. I think that in any 10-song album, the artists are going to start thinking about the kind of writing that will create a good visual impact at the same time that it does an audio impact. Canada has also launched its own music video production industry. At the leading edge of this is Rob Courtley's award-winning Champagne Productions.

The advent of a Canadian MTV music television channel will certainly be a big For a second chance, a second time The advent of a Canadian MTV music television channel will certainly be a big shot in the arm to us. I believe it's going to be a very viable industry that already is starting. The distribution of a music channel according to guidelines that the CRTC has laid down will be user discretionary, much the same way that pay TV is distributed right now. Some people have argued that a system like that won't attract enough viewers. The people involved think it will,

but only after a long, hard struggle. About six weeks from now, we'll find out who will fight that battle. In Hull, Quebec, JD Roberts. April 2nd, 1984, that was the big date. April 2nd, that the CRTC licensed Much Music. And when you think about it, April to August is not a lot of time when you're trying to put together a national channel.

That was the other thing. City TV was very local, was very focused on local. Much music was going to be broadcasting and had to be relevant to people from across Canada. And that is a big ask. And the other channels, the other pay TV channels at the time, they were movie channels. So they didn't have any original programming. They were just showing porkies, you know? So they didn't have to worry about appealing to people from Newfoundland or from British Columbia or from Winnipeg.

It was just movies, Hollywood movies. That's all anybody wanted. The First Choice Network has now joined forces with Super Channel to launch a new era in premium cable television. Introducing First Choice Super Channel, the best of both services for the price of one. But that's only the beginning. The new First Choice Super Channel has combined with TSM, Much Music, and participating cable companies to bring you all three networks for just $15.95 in the Satisfaction Free Pack.

You'll get TSN, the Sports Network. Quality programming 24 hours a day with a wide variety of sporting events from both the professional and amateur worlds. Catch the Sports Network for all the action and excitement of major events from across Canada and around the globe. You'll get much music, the nation's music station, where you can see and hear the latest in today's rock videos. You'll be taken backstage and brought right up on stage. There will be much music contests, video specials, and rock news 24 hours a day and in stereo.

You'll get First Choice Superchannel, the finest in-home movie entertainment featuring the biggest stars, premier box office hits, critically acclaimed movies, film festivals, and a whole lot more. First Choice Superchannel, TSN, and MuchMusic, all pre-networks for just 15.95. In the satisfaction free pack.

Call your participating cable company today. So yeah, it was a, it was a lot of work. There's a beautiful clip that is, it actually ends up in Sean Menard's movie, but it came from our YouTube channel that is looking at the night before they go on air. And this is when they're at 99 Queen Street East, is long before 299. And if you ever see that building, I mean, that was a pretty small building,

the City TV and then Much Music was housed in. And I think Much Music was on the third floor and Pulse was on the fourth floor. I could be wrong, Peter Gross would, would know that. But, uh, you know, it was a horrible old service elevator that was breaking down all the time. And you gotta imagine this is when smoking was still allowed in building. So there's probably just a plume of smoke in every room you go into. There's stacks of tapes everywhere and old, uh,

three quarter inch VCRs everywhere. And it's like chaos and they're trying to put all this together. See this chaos behind me in nine days time. It's going to become Canada's first 24 hour a day music channel complete with state of the art technology and Canada's first VJs. For the uninitiated a VJJ, excuse me here, is a video jockey. And JD Roberts, excuse me Daniel, is Much Music's first video jockey. A little chaotic around here, isn't it?

Just a touch, yes. Who would operate like this for two and a half months then? Listen, I know this is probably the worst time for you, but do you know what's going on behind you here? They've kind of let me in on a little bit of what the plan is. Great! Can you give me a tour? Sure, let's go. I mean, this is our second time in Toronto and coming back here and headlining a stadium tonight.

I guess the first place to start, Cathy, is with our master control area. You have to realize that two and a half months ago, this was a tape library. Now you can see it's full of state-of-the-art equipment. It's a television origination center. So this is all going to be transmitted by satellite across Canada? Yeah, you can see the sophisticated equipment in the back. A lot of that will take the programming done here at the station to our satellite uplink, to the satellite, and then across Canada from there. This is really the nerve center of it all, where the technicians will put together much music, and they'll be using sophisticated equipment like a Graphics 5 animation

computer, also special effects video generators like our ADO, and also a state-of-the-art half-inch system, which will be broadcasting all of our video clips in stereo. August 31st, and this is actually what the public is going to see, right? Yeah, we'll get rid of the air conditioning ducts and the wires first, but the important thing to remember is that it's not a set that somebody's made out of wood and then shot with three cameras. It's a functional control room. And the beauty of it is that

not only will you get to know the VJ and the music, but all the characters that work behind us. Okay. So they had Christopher Ward obviously was promoted from doing City Limits. City Limits remained as a program that aired on City TV as well, but it also aired on much music. Right. JD Roberts got the gig. I've never been able to understand those auditions because, yes, John Major seemed like a no-brainer. Our good mutual friend, Joel Goldberg, seemed like a no-brainer.

He was doing Jay Gold stuff around then. Samantha Taylor seems like a no-brainer. There must have been a reason. I don't know if it was that they just couldn't come to some agreement with Moses or what exactly happened. But yeah, it starts off, it's basically two dudes. They get Jeannie Becker in there, but she's not a VJ. She's a reporter for what they call Rock Flash. And Rock Flash was the sort of city pulse of much music, if you will. One person city pulse that would show up and say, yeah, Michael Jackson just announced today, he has a new album coming out next year and DZ Top will be touring and blah,

blah, blah, all that kind of thing. Rock Flash would evolve to become Rapid Facts, right? That is correct. That is correct. That was hosted by Monica Dior and many others. But also I think after Jeannie left, it was... Denise Donlin, maybe. Yes. Uh, but before her, um, it was, oh goodness.

Um, KCC of course, Kim Clark, champness. Love that guy. He was the host and that makes sense. Yeah. He was amazing. Coming this Friday, much music, Canada's first all-music network. Much Music. In stereo, 24 hours a day, brings you top music video from Canada and around the world. All music, all the time. On the nation's music station, Much Music. Coming Friday. Roger subscribers, watch for a special infamous opening night 40 years ago tonight, if you were lucky

enough to have pay TV and not very many people did have pay TV. Right. You saw this party. They had this giant party at 99 Queen and it was the most random people that showed up to this party. You had a lot of bands, of course. I'm sure Rob Bruce was there. I mean, they premiered Tell No Lies by The Spoons. That was one of the first music videos they showed that night. Well, I'll ask them. the spoons. That was one of the first music videos they showed that night. Well, I'll ask them.

Yeah, you should ask them because that was as an infamous party. Eugene Levy is there. So it's like a mixture of bands and sort of Canadian personalities and obviously executives and music label people. And there's all kinds of technical difficulties, of course. So cameras are cutting out and zooming in on things that they shouldn't be. And I think David Kynes might have been the floor director that night. He knows a lot about how crazy that first night was. And there's clips of it around, but it is kind of lost, man.

It's not in the much archives. And amazingly, you'd think that people that were out there that were music fans, they might've recorded it just for posterity. There's a very low, low quality recording of some of it that is out there. But it's, yeah, one of the first things that I looked for many, many years ago, it seems to be lost, but you know, I hold out hope that somebody will turn up with a good recording of it at some point, because I think it would be great to see the whole thing. Well, if you don't have it, nobody does. But maybe one day when somebody, I don't know, shout out to Ridley Funeral Home, somebody passes away and they're going through their old their uncle's old tapes and they go. Oh god. Here it is I gotta call it. Yeah. Well, no, I mean I find I come across this kind of thing all the time, right people's

Dads or grandparents beta max recordings and right, you know people did a lot of archiving back then It was like they didn't even know what they were doing. Right. They thought, oh, it's the, you know, the first night that TSN is on the air. We better record this. I did this. If it was last game at exhibition stadium, I need to record this. I used to do, I didn't see YouTube coming. No, no, no. And so you have a lot. And of course it's frustrating because certain things, everybody taped the opening of Sky Dome. Right.

Like I've come across like tens of, you know, dozens of recordings of that. Right. But never the opening night of much music. So anyone out there that has that, yeah, get in touch. That needs to be a better recording of that needs to be online. 24 hours a day. It all happens here in stereo. This is much music. recording of that needs to be online. a little different. The new video preview, the Power Hour. I hope you've got yours in stereo. The Coca-Cola Countdown, City Limits and much more. Get the free pack. Much music,

first choice in TSN for just $15.95. So Ed, I'm a guy, one of those guys who didn't have much music in 1984. So 40 years ago today, I was not watching much music. So I'm curious curious because I know my OG VJs many of whom I've had over to talk about it I'm thinking of like Michael Williams and Erica M but after Christopher Ward and JD Roberts who are your first two VJs and then you mentioned Jeannie Becker's doing the rock flash news desk who comes next is it FOTM Katherine McClenahan? Like, like, like who is after, uh, JD and Christopher Ward? Is it Michael Williams? It is my Michael Williams was technically the third, uh, VJ. And then yes, followed

very shortly after by, by Catherine, um, who, as you know, there's been some controversy about all of that. Uh, I'm not not sure why because it's pretty much out there for anybody that wants to watch footage of the first female VJ on Much Music. Well, I know why because I talked to her, but it's never explicitly said in the, and it's funny that we're, I'm going to reference this documentary by Sean Menard, 299 Queen Street West, which I had the pleasure of seeing at the premiere at Roy Thompson Hall. But I don't know what you can say about this, Ed. I'm going to put you on the spot here.

But do you have any insight into why it's not available to the great unwashed? And if you missed it, you missed it. Shout out to Bay Blur Radio. But do you know what the status is of 299 Queen Street West? Unfortunately, you know, on the record, off the record, I don't. I don't know. And it's funny, I was saying earlier about the CRTC, you know, wrecking everything. It's just, it's a very Canadian curse, if you will, with our culture, that these wonderful toys aren't, we aren't able

to play with them because of all kinds of ridiculous things. This one is to do with music licensing and the record labels, and they have some gripes about certain things that were in Sean Menard's documentary. And I obviously really, really hope it gets resolved because regardless of how you feel about that movie, it is a celebration of that era, of that endeavor, all, well, not all of those characters, but many of those characters that we all grew up with.

There's not enough documentaries that are like it. There needs to be more. And so the way it's been treated is shitty because it's just going to make it all that much harder to do projects like this. And let's face it, this episode of Toronto Mike that we're recording right now that is dropping on the 40th anniversary of much Music. This should not be the definitive audio presentation of the birth of Much Music. Like this 299 Queen Street West tells this story. And hopefully one day it is available

and that these music right issues are resolved. But just to put a bow on the Catherine McClain a hand thing. So I watched the doc and I can tell you it is never explicitly stated in this documentary. you know this because your logo is up. I can see the retro Ontario logo at the end of this so you were involved in the 299 Queen Street West documentary but it has never explicitly said that Erica M and it's in her voice it's never explicitly said that she's the first woman VJ and I think what happened is and I know this from talking to Katherine

McClanahan is that she flew from LA to the Roy Thompson Hall premiere so she was there with me. We weren't sitting together but we were at the same the same venue for the same film and so she's she's made her way and she's watching it she's obviously never seen it and she was a hurt she was hurt that she it was never referenced that she was the first woman VJ even though she was only there a few weeks she wasn't there very long she was a hurt she was hurt that she it was never referenced that she was the first woman DJ Even though she was only there a few weeks. She wasn't there very long. She was the first woman VJ at much music so you hear Erica M

And she talks about oh little did they know who they were looking for was at reception and she talks about how she starts so I think Katherine the controversy is from Catherine being upset that it's hinted or alluded to the fact that maybe Erica was the first woman to VJ even though it's not explicitly stated and the name Catherine McClinahan is not mentioned and she's not seen in the documentary. So I mean, again, I don't know if you asked Sean about that that that's really no because I had Sean on before I saw the documentary Oh, I gotcha. I gotcha. I mean I cannot speak to any artistic decisions that he made It was right his film and it's a beautiful film I think Michael Williams had a great quote about it and it might have even been on your podcast afterwards

where he said that he hoped the release of this film was going to sort of jumpstart a whole bunch of other TV series or documentaries or books or podcasts or whatever that would all look at this from different angles. And wasn't that great? Because you can never say this one thing is the definitive History of anything. Okay, Christopher Ward's book for heaven's sakes. It was the first to market, right? It came out long before Sean's film. Yes. It has a ton of stuff about Katherine in it Probably because they were friends or they are friends and so I never

because they were friends or they are friends. And so I never understood why people sort of latched on to certain things in Sean's film and sort of used it to beat him up a little bit about why didn't you mention this? Why, you know, Kim Clark, Champness, I don't think is in the film either. That doesn't take away at all from KCC's, you know, incredible contribution to much music is just you're dealing with a two hour runtime. You can't possibly cover everything. But in terms of a primer, like in terms of something to just sort of introduce, reintroduce the legacy, it's pretty bloody amazing. No doubt, no doubt. And while we wait for it to be available on Crave or wherever, this episode of Toronto Mic will have to do. So, 40 years ago today, Much Music launches.

That's right. And you know, facts, you already mentioned it. There's Ubi Blake, which I guess was the first pop clip That john martin, you know, apparently too much to the frustration of of moses and everybody else Yeah, you really like we've spent all this money and all this time You're going to show this weird old black and white like soundy and it messes up the trivia the bar room trivia Because we all talk about the bugles? And video killed the radio star. Oh, the first video aired on MTV. But now you do the bar room trivia and many people will mention our rushes

video, what the enemy within and they'll be wrong. Right. Right. And then even spoons, um, tell no lies, tell no lies. I believe like if we're getting really into the minutiae here, it was the first premiere, right? Like Rush the Enemy Within had been shown elsewhere. But Tell No Lies, it was the first time it had ever been shown. And that's a wild video, man. I mean, I adore that video. Great, uh, great video, great song, great song.

And we, you know, dogs wearing 3d sunglasses in a, in an airport airplane. Like what is that all about? I don't know, but wow. So they're on the air and you know, if you were watching that first day, you can see videos by the cars, Elvis Costello, Van Halen. So it's happening. Much music has launched 40 years ago today. What were the, like, do you know what the early reviews were like for the critics that were tuning in that day? Do you know what people were saying? Yeah, I mean, there's, a lot was written about the Moses aesthetic.

What we all just take for granted now was still very cutting edge. Then the idea of showing the apparatus, showing people that were filming it, filming other people that are filming it, videographers, all of that postmodern production was all very new and exciting. This is before 299, the whole idea of the building that shoots itself. This is still the living movie era of Moses's artistic journey. So it was exciting. I think the issue was more that there just wasn't very many people watching it because of how expensive pay TV was. I think it was 16 or $17 a month and you got it bundled with TSN and First Choice Super Channel. But this is 1983. There's recessions

starting to happen and that is, as we see now, like what do people say, get rid of Disney Plus. You just didn't go into the world of pay TV if you were struggling to put food on the table. So Much Music didn't go onto basic cable until 1988. So, you know, we talk about today's the 40th, of course it is, but it really didn't become accessible until 88, which is kind of amazing. And that is something that neither Christopher Ward or Sean Menard talked about even once in their respective works. Not that maybe that's not an important thing, but I always thought that that was interesting. Another thing that to me is huge that neither of those guys talk about is how Mark Daly was the voice of much music in the early days.

Obviously he's best known as the voice of City TV, but he was doing all of the on-air promos for much, really up until Steve Anthony shows up in in 87. So he was, you know, doing double, triple, quadruple duty on all that. So as a kid, I didn't have pay TV either, but I saw those those commercials and it was Mark Daly. And City TV would run much music sometimes after midnight to give you a little taster. Yeah. I don't remember this. Yeah. So

that is the reason why thankfully I have recordings from the first year is from people that were recording you know Invasion of the Body Sn snatchers at midnight on city TV. And then it ended and then you'd get half an hour of, of just raw feed of much music. What I remember is the free preview weekends. That I remember. Huge. Of course I had to make sure I had a bunch of blank VHS cassettes to record the

super girl and all those movies I was going to catch on first join. I had to make sure I had a bunch of blank VHS cassettes to record the Supergirl in all those movies I was going to catch on first join. Yeah, no. And of course, what we talked about a while ago in the episode, what was originally the new music, the concerts that were simulcast became known as the big ticket. And that was a very big part of original Much Music, these concerts from across Canada and then eventually across the world that were massive, massive shows. And it wasn't, the Much Music, I think Sean's movie does a great job of, it really leans

into this idea that Much music is like Saturday Night Live Depends on your age and your interest what era you think is the definitive right? Of course It's different for him. It was that late 90s era right of Strombo and Jennifer Hallet, maybe, uh, who, yeah, yeah, I think that that's that, you know, he's a young guy. Uh, not like us old, old toots that are talking about Michael Williams. Well, we need our, uh, yeah, our Michael Williams, our Erica M, our Steve Anthony. This is our much music. Yeah. I mean, even Steve Anthony, I think of him as new because he replaced JD. JD to me was much music.

Whatever happened to that JD fellow? I don't know, man. I don't know. But look, it was an exciting time. Again, I just say, go on, spend a little bit of time on this anniversary, looking at old clips on YouTube because there was nothing like it. There will never be anything like it again. It was fun. Music at the time was so exciting. It felt like every day there was something new happening and a sound or a kind of music

you'd never heard before. And now music is like turning on the tap and getting a glass of water. It doesn't really mean anything, right? It's just there. So, when you're searching for those clips from the early days of Much, you start that journey on the official Retro Ontario YouTube channel. And 40 years ago today, much music launched. And I think this was an excellent,

thorough origin story telling by you, retelling by you, and you did a great job. And I just want to say, I'm honored. You gave me over an hour of your life to, to walk through this. And I'm excited to be sharing this with the listenership. Well, thank you, Michael. The pleasure is all mine. And again, it's something as Canadians, we should be proud of and we should talk more about it. I hope, I know you continue to invite people on your amazing podcast that worked there, that were in front of the camera, behind the camera,

because there's just all of these amazing stories and all these amazing characters. So yeah, let's keep celebrating that, Mike. And Moses, you're next buddy. I'm coming for you. And that brings us to the end of our 1,544th show. Go to torontomike.com for the many ways you can follow me. Write me at mike at torontomike.com. Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Recycle My Electronics.ca, the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team, and Redlee Funeral Home. See you all Tuesday when my special guest is Carol Off. Read Andrew Miller and wander around

And drink some goodness from a tin Cause my UI check-ass just come in Ah, where you been? Because everything is coming up Rows of your grain Yeah, the wind is cold Because everything is coming out rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold but the snow is cold It won't speed a day And your smile is fine and it's just like mine

And it won't go away Because everything is rosy and gray I think it would be a success, yes. I had one other thought at the time, which foreshadows all of this, and I remember the night that much went on the air, so that's this clipping in today's Golden Mail. And we had a chroma key sheet of paper and then JD burst through it and we started Much. I had this theory at the time called the living movie. This is a bit of a digression, but it is important if we're trying to get at what I was thinking at the time about the work. And there were certain conventions in so-called real life television, especially so-called real-life television, especially news. There was supposed to be a certain kind of detachment to it,

and there was a pretension of objectivity. And it was formal and it was stilted. And I thought about it more dynamically, but I was also prepared to use words that were anathema to newspeople. I would say I'm going to cast the people who appear on City TV. I'm going to cast the people who appear on Much Music. Their job is to capture the living movie out there, but they themselves constitute a living movie. out there, but they themselves constitute a living movie. I put in there certain archetypes, and you'd have to admit that JD is a kind of archetype. I mean, gifted and a huge worker,

a real workhorse. He knew that it was all about airtime, but also looked like the captain of the football team and there was Jeannie who was intense and somatic and neurotic and urban and so on, dotted with diversity. But at the time it seemed provocative to talk about it that way. So living movies another big idea somewhere in the background of the founding of this and Much Music. What I'm trying to say is that what happened between the videos was as important as the videos. I feel good! Much music!

He can't help it! He's terminally cute! Hi, JD! And while we were busy pointing our cameras out there at Stars, our own people were stars, too. I constantly had to remind our promo people, for example. And that came out of this living movie idea. Hear much music, coast to coast across Canada in stereo, 24 hours a day. movie idea. For less than the price of an album, it's yours. John-O! Much music. Ow! All music all the time on the nation's music station.

Much music. Get yours now.