Trash Tuesday w/ Esther Povitsky & Khalyla Kuhn - Caleb Hearon is Trash Tuesday’s New Therapist

Episode Date: May 21, 2024

The hilarious Caleb Hearon joins us in the slug den and the podcast quickly becomes a therapy session slash intervention. We talk the midwest, Khalyla and Esther’s unusual dynamic and why everyone secretly wants to be a DJ. FOLLOW US: SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE!! FOLLOW TRASH TUESDAY INSTAGRAM FOLLOW TRASH TUESDAY TIKTOK FOLLOW ESTHER & KHALYLA  Khalyla Kuhn - INSTAGRAM Esther Povitsky -INSTAGRAM **SKIMSSSS** https://www.skims.com/trashtuesday  SKIMS dot com slash TRASHTUESDAY (all lower case)/trashtuesday  After you place your order - Select "podcast" in the survey and be sure to select our show (Trash Tuesday) in the dropdown menu that follows. More Caleb Hearon! Podcast: So True w/ Caleb Hearon Instagram & X: @calebsaysthings Tiktok: @calebsaysthings   00:00 Caleb is our therapist  01:30 Midwest With It  05:37 Being Gay & a Sports fan 07:00 Promote Business or Keep it Secret? 12:42 Caleb on the nightmare of dating men  14:08 Do you guys smoke cigs? 21:10 High Context Versus Low Context People  27:55 Esther and Khalyla’s Dynamic is Explored 30:50 Caleb is Khalyla and Esther’s Therapist  34:45 Dave is Back!  40:00 Ice Cream College 41:20 Caleb hates Komodo Dragons  46:00 Do we hate DJ’s because we want to be DJ’s? 49:19 Caleb Roasts Khalyla  52:27 I’m the main character, not you 55:00 Is this toxic? Or nah 01:01:00 Come back, Caleb!! LISTEN! LISTEN TO TRASH ON ITUNES LISTEN TO TRASH ON SPOTIFY LISTEN & FOLLOW OUR OTHER PODCASTS TigerBelly Podcast w/ Bobby Lee  Rick and Esther Have a Time Creds: Exec. Producer & Showrunner: Stella Young and Tiny Legends Productions Shot and Edited By: Guy Robinson and Sean Wanless Edited By: Andrew Tarr (Audio) & Guy Robinson (Video) Theme Song Written by: Bobby Lee  Banana Break Song by: Can Nguyen  This Video Contains Paid Advertising This video contains paid advertising.  #trashtuesday #khalyla #esther #podcast  

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offer and your new three-month unlimited wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to mintmobile.com slash Tuesday. That's mintmobile.com slash Tuesday. Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month at mintmobile.com slash Tuesday. $45 upfront payment required equivalent to $15 a month. New customers on first three-month plan only. Speed slower above 40 gigabytes. On unlimited plan, additional taxes, fees, and restrictions apply statement mobile for details i think it's really hard for me to choose a side because you're both exhibiting some pretty funny behaviors i think there was a moment when you were saying i'm re-falling in love with esther that i was feeling partial to esther because i'm thinking why did you fall out of love with her and then naturally of course i want to say to your credit when the tattoo was revealed of course i thought that was weird. Skims. Skims. Skims. Skims. You guys, the Fits Everybody collection is available in sizes extra, extra small to 4X. And you can shop now at Skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop down menu that follows.

Skims. Skims. I am from a place called Skokie, Illinois. I know Skokie. You do? Thank you, Lisa Trager. Wait. You know Lisa's from Skokie.

We went to the same elementary through high school. Yes. Oh, I know Skokie well. We're on the same school bus. I lived in Chicago for three years. Did you know that no i lived in chicago for three years after college it's where i started comedy and i i know skokie well wait where did you go to college i went to college in missouri where i'm from so i stayed in school for missouri and then right after college i moved up to chicago oh yeah music wait where i was like i honestly was like are we gonna

do this with the music on? I love it. I was like, that's a fucking vibe. I feel like I'm at a house party right now. Wait, speaking of house parties, you guys met at a house party? Well, I didn't meet him. That was Dave. Must have seen him out of the corner of his eye and beelined towards him to embarrass himself and our whole family.

Dave, no. Dave brings honor to the family. Dave brings such honor to the family. Like Dave is like, he has been talking about you for years. Dave, that's so huge for me, honestly. No, it's you. You should be afraid of people talking. That's the business.

Yeah, you're right. That's funny. Where in Missouri are you from? This is important as a Midwesterner. So I'm from Northwest Missouri. I'm from like a really small town. I grew up in a town called Brookfield. And then I went to high school in a town called Chillicothe.

Do you have, my family in O'Fallon, Missouri. Oh, I know O'Fallon. You do? Yeah. Well, it's barely Missouri because O'Fallon is right there on the Illinois border. I think there's two O'Fallons. Am I wrong? There's an O'Fallon, Missouri and an O'Fallon, Illinois. Okay. They're both in the St. Louis area. Okay two O'Fallons. Am I wrong? There's Nofalla, Missouri and Nofalla, Illinois.

Okay. They're both in the St. Louis area. Okay. So something interesting about Missouri, I don't mind if I do. Please teach me U.S. geography. I would love to. The two major cities in Missouri are both spillover into the states next to them. So Kansas City is obviously partially in Kansas.

Yes. And then St. Louis is partially in Illinois. Oh, I did not even know that as a Midwesterner. Um, what is it? Do you feel differently of me knowing like my mom is from St. Louis, my family, like what, how do you, I think, yeah, I think I liked you to begin with. And I think I feel, I do feel anybody, anybody who I like, I attribute Midwesternism to, I go, that person must be midwesterner, even if they're not, you know? Yeah. When I like somebody from California, I go, you're Midwesternism to. I go, that person must be Midwestern, even if they're not. When I like somebody from California, I go, you're Midwestern with it. I kind of do the same thing. And if I feel slightly intimidated by them, no matter what their vibe is,

I'm like, you're from the East Coast. You're an East Coast, yeah. You're an East Coast gremlin. And wait, what is Kalilah's vibe to you? Yeah, I know. Where am I from, technically? I'm very international. I didn't grow up here. I grew up in the Philippines.

Came here when I was 15, but very much an Angeleno at heart. Because Los Angeles is where I landed. Yeah. But I don't know if my vibe is, like, fully California. I wouldn't get a fully California vibe from you. I would say the way you've talked to me so far since I've been in the studio, I would give you maybe, like, Baltimore or something. I would give you, like, you've been a little terse with me, but in a way that I'm give you maybe like Baltimore or something. I would give you like you've been a little terse with me,

but in a way that I'm like, I like her. I love terse. You were making fun of me before the record. Well, you said Glendale. I said the studio is huge. Your fans might not know that you guys are recording in an old shoe factory. You're recording in one of the biggest buildings I've ever been in in my life. And I said, this is what you come to Glendale for.

Is it weird the way I say Glendale? I thought the emphasis was on Glendale. So I was like, oh, wow. Glendale. Very. I say Glendale. Yeah, Glendale. There's a draw, like a southerness to the way.

But I like the way you said it. It gave it an extra. It's like Los. It's no one. It's not Los Feliz. It's Los Feliz, right? But no one else had to say it right in LA. I didn't say Los. I say Los. Oh, okay. Well. I'm rocking with Los Feliz. It's Los Feliz, right? But no one else had to say it right in LA.

I didn't say Los. I say Los. Oh, okay. I'm rocking with Los on it. Los. That's the one that people in LA love, love, love, love. To turn over, chew over how we're saying Los Feliz. I say Los Feliz.

Okay, I feel like that's closer too. Do you think I'm right? Well, it's Los Feliz. I know, but then when you do that, I'm like, what are you trying to prove? That's true. You're right. You're right. But maybe you can't really say Los Angeles either.

That's like fucking annoying. That's like my stepdad really trying to like go for it. At the same time, it is very sexy for me when you say it that way. It is sexy, but it is also giving white person ordering at a Mexican restaurant. Exactly. Which is my stepdad. That's exactly what my stepdad does. Hi, I'll have the jimmy jongas. It's like, okay, cool it.

Yeah. Oh, that's painful. Yeah. It is, of course, painful. Borderline problematic. Don't clip this up. Don't you guys dare clip this up. But do you currently live in Kansas or something crazy? I go back and forth between, I have a place

here. I rent in LA, not to brag back and forth between, I have a place here. I rent in LA, not to brag. I could never afford to own a home here. Y'all, thank you. I rent in LA and I own a house in Kansas City and I go back and forth. Oh, is that why you're a Chiefs fan? I'm a huge Chiefs fan, yeah. What is it like being gay and liking sports?

Well, first of all, the gay thing is mostly for money. The gay thing is mostly because it's in right now. I'm mostly kidding about that. And the sports thing is mostly, it's one of the biggest shames that I have. Like I do think being a sports fan is ultimately embarrassing. Like caring about what these men do on their weekends is so humiliating. How did this happen to you? Well, I just grew up playing football in Missouri. And so like if you, anyone who grew up in Missouri, like a boy playing football, like

you were going to be a Chiefs fan. My dad was a Chiefs fan and I love the Chiefs. And my whole life it's been, it's been humiliating because they've been horrible. The Chiefs, I don't know if you know this about the Chiefs, but they, my whole life were an absolute embarrassment to the entire region. And then only when we got Patrick, well, Andy, Andy Reid was the beginning of it, our head coach. But then the last four or five years have been bliss.

I'm one of the happiest people who's ever lived. Really? Yeah, because they're so good now. And how do you feel about the Taylor, Travis, Kelsey? I love it for them. You do love it. I love people. I love Kansas City.

I'm very passionate about Kansas City. I'm there as much as I'm in LA. I absolutely adore it. Going back and forth keeps me sane. I love the Midwest. I'm so passionate about Kansas City. And I want everyone to come as I'm in LA. I absolutely adore it. Going back and forth keeps me sane. I love the Midwest. I'm so passionate about Kansas City. And I want everyone to come and visit and enjoy it. And even move there if you're cool and nice.

But one thing I will say about all, there's a lot of Kansas City celebs. Like Paul Rudd, Eric Stonestreet, Jason Sudeikis. Eric Stonestreet, that's it. Yeah, all these guys. And the only thing I would say to them is, don't tell everyone about the spots. Stop telling everyone about the spots.

Because Heidi Gardner, girl, no shade to you. Heidi, I know you're watching. She will do an interview with like a national publication being like, spend a day with me in Kansas City and then she'll give away all the spots.

And I'm like, we can't be giving away the spots. But I feel the alternative is her not giving away the spots and not looking like, we can't be giving away the spots. But I feel the alternative is her not giving away the spots and not looking like a real Kansas City resident. Oh, that's so scary. You know what I mean?

Like if I were to take you around and say, hey, come with me to Cebu, Philippines and then I just choose like the basic, they'd be like, she's not a real Cebuana.

Yeah. So I don't know what I would. I would risk it. I would risk. If they ever come to Kansas City, no one's profiling me like this, by the way. No one's profiling me like this. No one way. No one's profiling me like this.

No one's giving me a glamorous profile. Literally the only interviews about me ever, like how did this fat guy do this? You know what I mean? How did this fat, hoaxy Midwesterner break his way into this industry? We're trying to get him out. And there's no glamorous piece about me ever.

Mostly because I don't look good in clothes, so the photo shoot wouldn't be fun for them. But if they did it with me, I'd be like, let's go to my favorite barbecue restaurant. And then I would take them to a national chain. Oh my God. I would not take them to the actual spots. You are committed to gatekeeping.

I'm a gatekeeper more than I'm anything else. So, okay, can I tell you the potential flaw with that system that I have experienced? I'm a little older than you. I've gone through this. I have gate kept things to their own demise. You get kept small businesses out of business. Yes,

that's correct. So that is a risky run. I've seen, I've seen it happen. Like with, especially with like LA hot girl stuff where like the hot girls are like, we can't tell the public about this. And then three months later it's off the shelves.

You can't find it. Like people are homeless because of us like yeah yeah i'm willing to risk it i no obviously that is yeah i do i i do actually struggle with that because then if a place i love goes out of business like i experienced this a couple times when i lived in chicago that someplace that i was really trying to be like guys we gotta go i love this place it would go out of business then i'd be like, guys, we gotta go. I love this place. It would go out of business. Then I'd be like, fuck, we didn't work hard enough for them.

Did you ever go to Skokie when you lived in Chicago? I did go to Skokie once. I worked with kids when I worked in Chicago. I worked as like a, I wasn't a teacher, but I worked at a nonprofit where I like interfaced with kids a lot and did like community service, like outreach trainings with them

and like curriculum development. Were you in like legal trouble? Why did you do that? Yeah yeah so i had court ordered service um no i worked at a non-profit that was my day job i worked at a non-profit um i was actually a hero and so you took you actually took it to a really malevolent place where i was sort of affected by the criminal justice system but the truth is that i'm an angel who walks among humans like y'all and i yeah i went to i went to skokie once on a um like a field trip thing i think we went to the um the holocaust museum oh we have the we have actually the illinois the whole state's holocaust museum

is in skokie because we had the highest amount of holocaust survivors um living in in skokie yeah it's a very upbeat fact yeah Yeah, it's a lot of fun. That's why I deliver with a smile. Wait, what is the feeling in your body when you do see someone kind of out your favorite place or out your gate kept? Is this because he just outed my Holocaust museum? Yeah.

Shut the fuck up, dude. That's where we go to hang out. It's kind of like, is it the same feeling as when you've been telling someone about a particular band for so long and they never pay attention and then one day they're like oh my god have you heard of this and the rage that fills my body when someone does that is unparalleled but is that a similar feeling yeah it's definitely akin to that rage i think the the issue is that then it crosses over from like that's like an ideological kind of rage like an existential like i liked at first it was my kind of intellectual property this is accompanied with also a logistical

hell that then starts to develop because then not only am i offended that i liked them first and that taste thing going on but then it's also like now i'm gonna have to wait in line to get my fucking sandwich right now it's logistically impacting my life and we can't have that the logistics are hard yeah my worst fear is being that person, though, because I have been my whole life. Like, who likes the band late and then everyone around you hates you. That's – but the only time I ever was, like, the earliest to someone – and I'm being the lame person now who has to, like, claim how early they were. But Gaga. Gaga.

I saw her – You were early on Gaga? I was so early. She might have been the first 10. I saw her in a gay bar in West Hollywood. Wait, doesn't she follow you? On Twitter. Oh, that's right.

She followed like her first like few thousand fans or whatever on Twitter. And then she, former Twitter. And then she, we saw her twice in one night at the Hard Rock. No. What is it called? The Hard, House of Blues. Oh, wow. Yeah. You were of blues oh wow yeah you were in there yeah you were in there early yeah is it as a gay man do you you don't give a shit do you no i know yes i'm very i'm very proud of you and happy for you with your gaga stand-up but i i'm not really a pop i don't

have a pop diva i'm not one of of the, I love some of Gaga's music. I love some of like Ariana's music. Like I can get in with all of them. I'm down with it. But I spend a lot more of my time, unfortunately, and this is not me. I get accused of being a pick me gay sometimes. And I'm not.

I just unfortunately am deeply Midwestern. And I really am listening to like folk music a lot. I'm listening to like folk, like indie, like indie folk, indie rock. So my people, like you wouldn't even care about the people indie, indie, like indie folk, indie rock. So my people, like you wouldn't even care about the people that I want to have a pop diva. Like when a gay guy on a first date will be like, so who's your girls? They'll be like Beyonce or Taylor. And I'm like, really, truly, it's a, it's a sad woman with a guitar in Oklahoma.

I would love to be on a date. And someone asked me that question. That sounds so like, wow. Okay. You would love going on dates with gay guys. I know. My nightmare could be your heaven. If I have to get drinks with one more project manager, I'm killing myself. I'm killing myself. I don't know what Deloitte is

or why they keep hiring these. But I am so tired of interfacing with these motherfuckers. And like that my future depends on it. This is horrible. Oh my God. I've been saying, I've been saying for years, queerness is the biggest gift

that I've ever received from the universe. It's made me a much happier, more empathetic person. It's enriched my life in so many ways. Being attracted to men is a curse from the devil and it's a different thing, you know? I would have to agree. Do you think that applies to us

as much as it does to you or? What do you mean? Like being attracted to men? Well, only y'all could tell me, but I think obviously are either of you attracted to women? Sometimes. I'm a famous, as you've made famous, a bisexual with a boyfriend. Don't drag that back up because they really came for me on that. They did?

I thought it was hilarious. Bisexuals have never mobilized in the way they did when I said that. Bisexuals found real community in my comments. It was horrible. I made a joke. I said I respect. It's so funny. I said I respect bisexual women. I think them and their boyfriends are beautiful and they all have

one and that's beautiful. That's gorgeous. And I had not been validating the identity. Bisexual people got so mad at me about that. I thought it was so funny. It's such a, well, it's so well observed. All I'm saying is I look around and I see what I see. Yeah. And all of a sudden I'm in trouble.

I have a really weird question. That's a really strange pivot. And I'm sorry that this is going to blow everyone away with how embarrassing it is. And anyone in the room can answer. Have you guys ever smoked a cigarette? I was like, this is a real question I have. Like, I have never. My urge to lie is really big right now. But I tell everyone, and I've lied about this my whole life,

that I've never smoked a cigarette ever. The only true thing about me is that I've never had a cavity and that's a fact. Wait, what? But I flex on us right now, make us feel like shit. I did smoke a cigarette and it was right before my first abortion. Okay. That's when you should do it. Yeah. It was the first cigarette and the last cigarette I ever smoked. I was in Sacramento with the poor guy who impregnated me. Poor as in like you felt bad for him or he just couldn't afford to have the baby with you? We just didn't like each other. Okay.

And there was a breakup happening. But also what was his financial situation? I mean, we were 19, 20, so probably not good. He was broke as fuck. Yeah, broke as fuck. And so I remember he was a smoker and I was like, well, no better time than now. And so I had to, you know, I was going to get better time than now and so I had a you know I was

gonna get an abortion a couple days after that and then I smoked a cigarette and that was a one one and done did it feel like anything no I was so like hopped up it felt like nicotine it felt like caffeine I was like oh I don't like this and so that was it have you do you I've smoked two oh really two cigarettes as a bit for a joke. Like I was, we were fucking around at the improv theater and I smoked a cigarette because people were like chanting for me to smoke a cigarette. I know I've never, people were like, you know, when you're 20 and doing improv in Chicago, it's one of the most, obviously, again, humiliating experiences, but you will just find yourself in a circle with people chanting for you to do something.

And that was the circumstances. And I smoked two cigarettes and they weren't for me. I'll never do it again. Probably. Where did you do improv in Chicago? By the way, I started at IO. Me too. Really? Wait, what year? No, I was, I'm older. Nevermind. We don't want to, I got to Chicago in 2017. Oh, okay. Okay. No worries. No worries. All good. Were you back in the, like, were you at original IO? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Was that where you were or no? No, I started at Warehouse IO. Okay. Esther, why the cigarette?

You've never tried, not with alcohol either, right? You've never taken a sip of anything? No, but the reason I was thinking about this is because for some reason I was like, I'm so, you know, I was thinking the thing that has worked on me the most in life of anything is the anti-smoking, whatever they did to me when I was a kid. The campaign worked. Yeah, it worked. Like, it is crazy that I, because I realize I'm starting to see cool young people with cigarettes again. Because everyone's going back to analog now because vape is a little bit choogy maybe.

Vape is humiliating. And you haven't seen that in a long time like even before even pre-vape i feel like you just didn't see like young cool people smoking cigarettes and now i see it and i'm like that's so weird like this is a thing that all the cool pretty girls are doing and i don't want to do it how is that possible and it's just like that brainwashing actually worked. And it just made me realize like, oh, we could brainwashing work. So wait, did your parents smoke? No. See, I had a three pack a day father.

So for me, it was like watching my sister have asthma. And then my father going cold turkey because he's I mean, this is a man who smoked indoors, like blue smoke in our faces. Your dad, your actual dad. And so like everything was like smelled like cigarettes so i just had a natural like sort of aversion to that so i never wanted to never wanted to kind of and my childhood was terrible so i probably associate it with a smell of cigarettes so i never touched it did your dad smoke so much yeah my dad smoked so much and i actually had an affinity for it.

I liked the smell. Really? Because growing up, my dad smoked a lot and his two siblings, my uncle and my aunt, they were both really cool and they both smoked cigarettes. They tried to hide it from me, but I would always kind of know. And my mom, when she was putting herself through nursing school, worked at a bowling alley. And so she would come home and smell like cigarettes and beer. And all those smells were just very nostalgic for me.

So I really wanted to smoke cigarettes, but the campaign worked on me too. I have the same nostalgia too because my grandma smoked. And whenever I smell someone that has my, I shouldn't say smoked, she's in her 80s and still smokes a ton. She's alive and well. Absolute queen, yeah. Only smokes and drinks, doesn't eat actual food. Not sure how she's still alive.

Did a joke about it on The Tonight Show and had everyone come for me for wanting my grandma to be dead. S&P approved it, baby. So it can't be that inappropriate. But when I smell whatever her cigarettes are, I get like, ooh, I'm like into it. It's so exciting and thrilling.

You know, that's what I call like cockroach DNA. I do have family members who just never die and they just live a life of sin and they never fucking die. They could probably live without their heads for 20, with their heads cut off for 20 days. That's cockroach DNA. That's redneck DNA. The people I grew up around who are smoking, they are just chain smoking cigarettes, drinking the worst, most disgusting, strongest alcohol you've ever heard of. They absolutely have never exercised a day in their life. They're eating like 45,000 calories per meal and they will live to be a hundred. It's nuts. Not a single autoimmune illness, nothing. They're just hearty, hearty, hearty. Yeah. And it is, she's like Midwest,

like Minnesota, like had her first baby at 16. That is crazy. She's killing it. Here I am at 36 just having my first kid. I'm ashamed of the family. I don't know. I'm so old and disgusting. I don't know. I really legitimately have no concept of your age until the moment that you said it just now.

If you told me you were 36, I would have never gone that high. But if you had told me you were 16, I would have never gone that high. But if you had told me you were like 16, I'd have been like, why not? You know? Yeah. Same. I have no concept of your particular age. Wait, how old are you? I'm 29. Oh, I had no concept either. Cause I feel like you're my age, but that's what I just do to everyone. Right. I make them my age. Do you do that? For sure. Yeah. Everyone's my age. And I, yeah. And I, I, it goes back and people are very mean about my age because I joke about age a lot. So people tell me I look 40 all the time. People who like me will say I look younger than that. It's just no one, no one really knows what to do with me.

I also think I'm boring in a way that indicates being older. And I've always been a little boring. You know what I mean? So I'm, yeah. I feel like I'm a, I, people always say I look young, but I'm like, no, I'm a teenager with wrinkles. Like, it's fine. That's going to be my, how I go, how I go out. That's going to be how I live and die.

That's going to be actually my story. I recently came across this thing. Have you guys heard of low context versus high context cultures? No. And I realize now that a lot of my problems, like being an immigrant and living in the United States, has to do with the fact that I come from high context culture and America is very much a low context or the bigger cities at least. Can I guess what this means?

Yes. Does it mean like you have no, either your culture has like a lot of stuff to it and a lot of people know about it versus no? No, it's actually communication style. So low context apparently is very direct like when you say for instance you say can i get a blanket i feel cold versus i will hope to god you see that i'm shivering and read my cues and me saying god it's cold in here and then wish you offer me a blanket so it's like directness yeah so no let's um that's high context okay where it's like you're reading people's cues and for someone like me i've always just like sort of

assume that people are like know your needs does that make sense it's ask versus guest culture it's oh this is my worst fear yeah this is exactly this is why i feel like you and i if we've ever like butted heads it's because of this this is my worst fear. Yeah, this is exactly. This is why I feel like you and I, if we've ever like butted heads, it's because of this. This is my worst fear because I do sometimes feel like when I'm on the phone with her that she's like waiting for me to end the conversation. But I'm like, no, if she wants it to end, she'll just say it's over. But see. But then I let it linger. Yes.

And then I'm keeping you on the phone longer than you want to be. Exactly. Exactly. We got to the bottom of that. And that's because directness is impolite. on the phone longer than you want to be. Exactly. Exactly. We got to the bottom of that. Good. And that's because directness is impolite. Directness. I hate this.

I know. I hate it too. And I'm really trying to like get on your page and I'm trying to ask for things in a more direct way. But it is like how you say things and how you ask things very much matters in like high context culture. Wait, what are you?

I want to say that i felt i felt very ethnocentric hearing that because i was like well there was a right and a wrong one like i did feel there was a right and a wrong well even in america apparently so the bigger cities are low context but in like more conservative maybe even midwestern it's there is a sort of like um for instance here like one of the examples they use is here we say our name and then we give our pronouns. And in some, like, conservative areas in America, like, it's more polite to assume rather than, like, say it. That's how it's explained in the America way. But for me, it's, like, Asian versus American.

Would I have an example that is, like, so shameful to me I don't even want to say it out loud? Say it. But one time we went—we, like, we stopped at my aunt's house on the way to Minnesota. We always stopped at her house in Wisconsin. And I remember she like, we usually stayed for a few days, but this time we were just stopping over for the afternoon. And she had like made some sort of treat for all of us. And I didn't want it. And so I didn't want it and so I didn't have it and I'll never forget like when I turned it down the like look on her face was so fucking scary like I I can't even believe I'm talking about it I'm like so scared thinking there's something that you do

that I totally respect that I could never do which is if someone gives her like merch say for instance she goes no thank you I'll never wear that or I'll never use that. Oh yeah. That's crazy. That's crazy. I was like, why did she say that? But I low-key respect it because it's honest, but I would be like, oh my God, thank you so much. And of course I'd never use it or wear it, but I just couldn't say it in that moment. So it's almost because I'm so lazy and I will just collect garbage that I have to like stop it right at like, right where it's, the blood is coming out.

I have to stop it. The point of contact. Caleb, where are you on this? I would only do that to someone I deeply hated. Like what Esther does as a matter of practice, I would only do to someone I intentionally wanted to put in their place. This is really coming up

because last week we went to a coffee shop and this little kid came up to me and gave me a sticker. And I took it. I took the sticker. Oh, thank God. But then as we were leaving, I was like, obviously I should just leave this here. Like, I don't want to waste one of their stickers

because he was giving them out to a bunch of people. And then I was like, no, I just had a kid. Like, no, take the sticker. It's better to throw it away than like have the kid see I didn't take it. So I'm, being a mom is changing me. You're changing with motherhood. I've always said that about you. After years of fine print contracts and getting ripped off by overpriced wireless providers,

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so sexy. Skims just accommodates my body no matter what stage or what season I'm in. It is all about that fits everybody fabric. I don't know what they put in it, but it is so stretchy. It's so soft. It's so comfortable. We love Skims. We've been wearing them the entire time we've been doing this podcast. The fact that they're finally sponsoring us is a dream come true. And the fits everybody collection is available in sizes extra, extra small to 4X. You can shop now at Skims.com. And after you place your order, be sure to let them know that we sent you select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show Trash Tuesday in the dropdown menu that follows. We love Skims. It's the lazy, sexy girls, like dream uniform, that bra and underwear. Agreed. Do you love directness? I do. It just depends. I think there's like a,

I think my feeling about the, for example, the being cold situation, my feeling is like, if I was absolutely freezing, I would probably say like, I'm so sorry, but can I get a blanket? And if I didn't, that would be my fault. Like I would never think it was the other person's fault for not picking up on some weird little game I was playing. Yeah. But I, but there are definitely times where I'm like, that would be kind of rude. I'm just going to keep it to myself. It depends on the space and the context of who I'm with and how close we are. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there are definitely times where I'm like, that would be kind of rude. I'm just going to keep it to myself. It depends on the space and the context of who I'm with and how close we are.

But I think I'm more often direct. I like to think I have a charming way of being direct. You do. Well, if you're fun, yeah. I like to think I get away with being direct without seeming like an asshole.

That's what I like to tell myself about me. That is a craft. That is a true art form, I think. So you can assert your needs. I think so. I think, yeah, I think so. I definitely, I definitely can assert my needs and I think so. I think, yeah, I think so. I definitely, I definitely can assert my needs. And I think that what I tell myself is that it's charming and it's received well. Whether or not that's true, we'd have to sort of get a committee

of people who deal with me in here. But I like to tell myself that it's received well. But even if it's not, isn't it better to like assert your needs in life? I don't know, than to like tiptoe around. I'm going to have a nice time. That's one thing about like I'm going to prioritize me having a nice time. For sure. And I hope everyone else is aligned. Like I do want everyone else to have a nice time as well.

But Caleb's going to have a good time. Yeah. I think that's a thing I operate from. I feel similarly about you. And about myself. But like how do we fix this? Because this is, I just feel like we're never gonna thrive as a couple. Like, I don't think we need to fix it. As long as there's an understanding that I'm not always going to be very direct because,

and by the way, in like American psychology, you call it like someone being codependent and being people-pleasing. And now I'm getting to the bottom of it i'm like am i a people pleaser or is it just cultural because it's not you know it's considered impolite otherwise um no but i think we're at a place now where we read each other well and it's like look esther like an hour and a half in hang up yeah hang up something needs something needs to change between the two of you because I want to say I'm seeing something really dark going on. No. I'm seeing something very nefarious between the two of you. No, she keeps me at, like, a good arm's length,

and I'm so glad. Like, I almost wanted to tell you today, like, just remember, like, I am a fan, and you should treat me as such. Like, keep me in a good sense. No, but lately I've been taking the bait. I think now it's like i love her so much just in this last couple months i've like had this like re-falling in love

with her and so now i'm like kalilah i have to remind myself like don't get to we can't talk five times a day no no no yeah that's but we do we have been so it's like nope we gotta create distance again what this is what i did the first look i mean she got a tattoo of my name it's like nope we gotta create this dance again this is what I did the first look I mean she got a tattoo of my name it's fading but it's been three and a half years I think it's really hard for me to choose a side because you're both exhibiting some pretty funny behaviors

I think there was a moment when you were saying I'm re-falling in love with Esther that I was feeling partial to Esther because I'm thinking why did you fall out of love with her and then naturally of course I want to say to your credit, when the tattoo was revealed, of course, I thought that was weird. Of course, I thought the tattoo was a step too far. So I'm feeling-

By the way, that was a birthday gift to me and it was a surprise. It wasn't really a- No, no, it wasn't. It was a bit for the podcast as a birthday gift. It wasn't, I know that a tattoo for me isn't a gift to you, but I just wanted to say, and I know I say this once every six months, but I am sorry that I did that, that I got the tattoo. I am sorry.

Because I realized how uncomfortable it would make me if someone did that. What are your real feelings about the tattoo? Honestly, I thought it was hilarious. I honestly genuinely thought it was hilarious. I was like, this is so... Even if you're lying, just keep that story. No, no, no.

That's how I feel. I'm being very low context right now. Like, that's how I feel. Direct, you really do. Yeah. What do you think... Do you think there's a genuine disparity in the love? Do you think you love her more than she loves you?

I hope that's the fact. You hope that that's true. That's where she's comfortable. She's comfortable loving someone more. Is that true, Esther? Yeah. For sure. And I am not comfortable loving someone more. I like being the lesser lover. So I feel like this works then. Oh, okay. Great.

We're good, baby. We're good. I would love to believe that you guys are good. We're both. I would love to leave this warehouse in Glendale today Feeling like Y'all are good That's something that would be so special to me But at the current moment

I'm terribly afraid to say that's not my vibe I will say like the one The biggest example of low context High context is when we go to a coffee shop And she asks what kind of milk. She gets so quiet. I mean, the beads of sweat coming down. And I'm like, I can't believe she's asking all of these questions.

I have learned that I can't be myself in public with her. You know what I mean? But I have also learned to set you free and then kind of just move away. What's giving you anxiety? You're asking the barista what coffee, what milks they have? I an annoying white woman and i'm like well what you do do this and also though i understand it because we have a third friend who does it way worse than me and it annoys me when she does it yeah and so i'm like i get why she's annoyed but i still can't control myself you know and my thing is we cannot inconvenience

people like and that's and even though it's not an inconvenience you know that Dave when we go to an ice cream shop and I ask for samples he's like don't let her have more than oh I can't do samples people we cannot go to an ice cream shop together like ever no this is literally for 12 years of my relationship every time we go in Dave is like you don't need a sample like he's like cut her off last time we went to jenny's the girl is a slug and she's like she can have as many as she wants and i was like that's why i podcast baby that's why we pick up the mic i i gotta say even now it's hard to pin down whose side i'm on like i was i was with you at the coffee shop and when we moved, when we walked over to the ice cream, you're giving dictator vibes.

I do think it's insane to be mad that people want samples, you know? But then at the same time, if you asked about the milks more than once, I'd be like, Google exists. It's a very interesting dynamic in here, and I do feel that there's love, but I do feel that there's mending that needs to be done.

There's deep mental illness is what it is. That's what you're sensing. That is reading so clearly. Actually, what's sick is that needs to be done there's deep mental illness is what it is that's what you're sensing so clearly yeah actually what's what's sick is that like she can do no wrong to me and that's where it's like that's probably not good i would go ahead and remove the probably i would feel really comfortable removing the probably i would feel really really comfortable just existing with that being a statement that's so uncomfortable do you that's so uncomfortable to be put on a pedestal like please don't do that of all people i don't want that and yet here you are here you are accepting this love that she's giving to you i do you know what i do love esther love it's really weird how i it's hard for me to accept

other people's love but coming from her it does feel a little bit more special and it does penetrate. It's genuine. Yes. I mean, there are people where, like, there's no guessing game. I know where I stand with you always because you're not going to,

you know, you're not going to shy away from expressing how you feel if I've done something like you don't really create. I'm so fearful of how this is painting me, but at the same time, I sign off. I don't think you're being pained. I think the only thing that's happening here is a lot of truth.

I think we're getting down to some really important... This is very therapeutic, actually. Thank you. There's some very important things happening between the two of you. We didn't book you as a therapist, but it has just sort of happened. I just serve my function in the space.

Everybody in the warehouse has a role. Right now, mine is to get to the bottom of this dynamic. I have to ask you about banana break. Oh, we do a is to get to the bottom of this dynamic i have to ask you about banana break oh we do a banana break what the fuck is this i'm a banana freak so midway through when um it's sort of just a reset it's a potassium reset that's all it is okay wait i have to ask you though because because Dave says when you go to an ice cream place— Actually, Dave, will you come in and give your—what you say? Like, why—he thinks that, like— Dave, drop the baby.

We need some of your criticism. Get over here, King. Dave and the baby are in studio today only because Dave is a fan of Caleb's and not because of me or the baby. What kind of thing? What's your, what do you say? Like I shouldn't need to sample like all ice cream is good or something. Well, when we go to places that you've had the ice cream before, I'm like, you know what, you know what it tastes like. I understand one or two samples, but then when you're like,

cause this has happened where Esther's like, well, okay, if you don't want samples, then I get his samples now. So she's like, so I get three. Part of it is also just like, is there a line behind you? Are they in, like, have some situational awareness. That's so untrue because there was no one

behind us at Jenny's this week. But Esther, we've been to McConnell's when there's like a long line and you're like, okay, let me start with line and you're like, okay, let me start with, and it's like, look around.

Like the people are, everyone wants ice cream. But like that's, you wait in the line for your moment and like you shouldn't just rush through your moment. I don't know. I will say before

you got on the mic, it was a little bit giving abusive husband. Like it was a little bit giving like, like yeah, it's so sweet in public. He hits me if i try to get more than one sample and it's just he doesn't mean it he just had a hard day at work you know and and then now to

hear you tell your side i'm like i think we need to reel it in on the samples yeah i do think so it's like jenny's you've had the gooey butter cake you know what i mean exactly that's a good one to put the little spoon down yeah you have to have to re, sometimes, I don't know, okay. I'm not saying no samples. You have said no, but what, wait, wait, I have to call you out now. When we first started dating, you used to get samples, and then at a certain point, to prove a point, you said you're never getting samples again.

It's so interesting that you think that I'm doing it to prove a point, you said you're never getting samples again. It's so interesting that you think that I'm doing it to prove a point. I'm doing it to get ahead of the embarrassment and the time that you're taking up from the person working there. But the way that he does it, it's like the person is like, oh, would you like to sample anything to him? And he's like, no, I won't be needing any samples. There's a bit of a righteousness there. I won't deny that.

He's not big about it. As someone that worked in an ice cream parlor, we hate you people. Yeah, of course. Oh, there we go. Wow. That was such a big thing to say. Well, I worked at Johnny Rockets. We didn't do samples, but I always had a smile on my face when I made milkshakes for people.

So we're just different. I don't know. This is a classic example of why like the golden rule doesn't apply. You think that people want to engage with the customer because you would like, if you were working, you would like to be asked questions and to give samples and stuff, but that's not how it works. Some people don't want that. Unfortunately, I'm back on your side. Yeah, unfortunately, because I worked in the service industry for five years and I am the same way. I loved it when people would chit chat.

Really? And I have a real intolerance for service workers who will not chit chat with me. If I say, hey, how's it going? And you immediately say, what do you need? Fuck you. No, I really am like we need to chit chat a little bit. I think I'm similar. Maybe this is like, we need to chit chat a little bit. I think I'm similar. Maybe this is like why we're in this business now.

It's like I loved, I absolutely loved being a surfer at Johnny Rockets. Like I love talking to people. And then when I worked at Press Juicery, even though the clientele was horrendous, like the first few years, because I was like the first juice place in LA, I loved giving samples. I loved when people asked for samples. Like, I don't know. Well, maybe there's a middle ground though.

Yeah. Where you're like. I would only get annoyed at the end of my shift and it was four plus. Like four or more asks. Where did you work? Gelato bar in Studio City in my early 20s. I didn't know you had a background in ice cream. You should have put that in your resume when you were recording us. Do you know what I did a year? I go through these little

obsessions that I get about what I want to do instead of comedy. And it's pretty much every day. And I had one like a year ago and I love comedy. I love what I do. I will never stop, but it is just something I think I have to do. And I got obsessed with the idea of going to ice cream college. Do y'all know that they have ice cream colleges? They do? What? They have ice cream colleges. There's a really big one in St. Louis and there's, which was crazy for me to learn because it's not far from my house. I could go easily. They're a little expensive. There's one in California up the coast a little bit. I forget, maybe Santa Barbara. There are ice cream colleges. There's one in Utah that's renowned. They will teach you. It's a, it's a

dual thing. They teach you how to make your own flavors and how to be like basically a mixologist in the ice cream world. And then they also teach you part of its business training that they go, this is the kind of neighborhood you want to open your ice cream shop in. Is it a tech school or is it like an A associates degree? So basically it's neither. It is, these people are rogue. It's a really unregulated industry I've learned, but their ice cream college is very unregulated. It's like basically it's a certificate that they just say. Usually it's run by someone who has a successful chain of like local ice cream stores.

And they go, this is what I think you should know. Here's how you balance your books. And then part of it is they'll take you into their ice cream stores. Because you go and stay for like a week or two. They'll take you into their ice cream stores. And then you'll get to like watch a shift and like work and scoop and like, but then when you leave, you know how to open your own ice cream shop.

That's incredible. I'd really like to do it. Beth Stelling did that. Also from the Midwest. Beth did ice cream college? Yeah. She did? Not ice cream college,

but in high school she went to like classes and she talks about how she used to keep her mistakes so she would just eat ice cream like after, but you go to school. Keep your mistakes. I love that sentence. I know. Also, what's with the Midwest and ice cream?

It feels... Well, Beth is a dear friend and I didn't know that she had gone to ice cream college. But I want to say that Beth Stelling is a special example where keeping track of her eccentricities would be a borderline impossible. Keeping track with all the weird little things about Beth Snelling would be a real feat for somebody. And I'm not surprised to hear it. God, I love that woman. See, I knew. I knew she had something within her. And she has like a long history working for Intelligentsia,

right? Yes. So she's a big barista person as well. And her dad, yeah, her dad owns all those raccoons. I mean, you really can't. I had one of those dad you had a raccoon dad? I had a koala dad

an orangutan dad what does this mean? everything you reveal about yourself to me I become more and more fascinated with you yeah do you see koala dad is crazy

you said that like it's normal it wasn't it's actually so illegal but thank god we live in the Philippines my dad was also born in 1924. This is his 100th year. This is his 100th year anniversary. Anniversary. Coming up in August. This is a special year.

Shout out to my dead papa. Shout out. But yeah, he was just an old time. Wait, is my baby your dad reincarnated? Maybe. I don't know why I think that. Just because it's the year of his 100th year. You had to remind me, by the way, that my dad, you were the one who reminded me like, hey, your dad's 100 years this year.

I'm going to step in really quick just if I can and say that was similar to the tattoo. That was like, that again is an area where we could have stopped just shy and we went ahead and asked if the baby was dad. And I think that was a moment. And then that was me just agreeing just to agree. So a moment of reflection for everybody perhaps. I think when we roll the tape back, we can look at this and go, that was a moment where the dynamic needs to be inspected.

Esther, I couldn't break your heart in that moment and say no is why. But the truth is that that was weird. I thought it was beautiful, but I definitely thought it was akin to the tattoo. It's in the family of the tattoo. I feel like I want you just sort of like an angler fish somehow attached to me so you could be my little context interpreter. Yeah. Well, I don't know if you want me around all the time because your hands are not clean in all of this. This is not the trial of Esther.

You guys are both very much standing in front of my bench. Okay, you're right. You're right. I'm on trial yeah but i had a dad and he was just really one of those weird animal guys and thankfully we live we live in the philippines but he smuggled a koala and my poor mom and her sisters and he would have everyone try to catch like grasshoppers and feed like eucalyptus and we didn't really have a whole lot and um he just was a weird animal guy so he had a monkey we had what every we had a fucking you know what a monitor lizard looks like don't

want to think of komodo dragon fuck those fuck those things fuck those things for dude i'm not fucking kidding if i ever see a komodo dragon and i have a gun, toast. I fucking hate Komodo dragons. Fuck those things. You had one? So similar. Disgusting. I would have killed it. Not quite a Komodo.

Not as like disgusting with their mouth and not as like, not as aggressive. My whole body is like shaking internally right now. Like I'm ill thinking. Do you know Komodo dragons, Esther? Like they don't necessarily, they're not poisonous. I've never met them. But their bite is so full of bacteria that it doesn't matter

even if it's a minor bite and let's suppose like that that animal would normally survive from that like flesh wound it won't with a Komodo dragon

because it is such a bacteria infested bite that they die from that infection eventually like within a week and the Komodo dragon then eats it

comes back the Komodo dragon is top five in my list of reasons that got it can't be real like the Komodo dragon is eats it, comes back and eats it. The Komodo dragon is top five in my list of reasons that got it. It can't be real. Like the Komodo dragon is so repulsive, repugnant, disgusting to me. I'm like, I literally would kill. If you wind every single one of them up in front of me, no matter how long it took, I would kill them.

I would kill them all. I don't care what they serve. They might be good for some kind of environment. I would like them dead. I think it's very, I mean, they are very dangerous and aggressive. But I will say my dad, so we had a monitor lizard, similar to a Komodo. Why do you have to say it again? In looks, but not so much.

But that's because he severed my sister's finger as a kid. The dad or the lizard? The lizard. The lizard, okay. And then my sister's finger needed to be reattached. And my dad didn't think that was reason enough to get rid of the monitor lizard. We just moved it to its own little enclosement outside before that it was sort of just like free roaming and i did not know

all these eccentricities about your dad the man who is now existing in my baby his soul is in my baby daughter the person i'm raising yeah this is what your kid has done. David's shaking his head. What are some other animals that make your, crack your top five of like God doesn't exist? I don't, the Komodo dragon's the only animal that's in the top five. The other, the other things in the top five are obviously like not a blast to chat about,

but of course like childhood cancer would go ahead and be in there. Okay, that's a good one. Yeah, that's a big one, you know. It's not a lot of fun to bring, you know, no one likes the guy who invokes childhood cancer on the pod, but, um, crowd work clips might be, um, and no offense. I've done, I've done them. We've all had our share, but I have, I, I too have a very, very deeply complicated relationship with crowd work clips. I obviously think they're humiliating, but yeah, I still am part of the

culture. We have to do what we have to do I don't blame people who do them it is where we've landed in the industry but I do blame people who do them and I still do it rock on no I think hypocrisy is legitimately beautiful I love to be a hater and then know in my heart that it's because I want to do that as well

you know what I mean like I love to be like ew why would they wear that shirt and I'll know literally when I'm saying it that I love the shirt you know what I my? Like I love to, I love to drag someone and be like, Ooh, why would they wear that shirt? And I'll know literally when I'm saying it, that I love the shirt. Like that is, you know what I, my theory is that the ultimate like hypocritical, just the thing that everyone hates because they want to be it.

Does anyone know what it is? What is it? Wait, hold on. The thing everyone hates, everyone hates, but you, if you actually dig one step further within yourself,

it's because you would want to be it. It's going to hurt. It's going to hurt. It's going to hurt everyone in this room. Republican? No, billionaire. DJ. Oh, that's so on the surface for me. That's so funny.

Yeah, I would love to be a DJ. Me too. You clocked the hell out of me. Can I? Since we're in the theme of uncovering truths. Yeah. I had a brief eight-month stint with really trying hard to be a DJ. I see that in you.

Thank you so much. I see that in you. And I recognize it as a soul connection. And I see it. And you know what? It doesn't bother me at all. Thank God. Because you can do no wrong.

It's really true now. But if you were to see the pictures of my setup and Esther, like this is really like a big moment for me because I would have died with that information. Do you know that Beyonce song where she's like, I can see your halo? You know that halo? I feel that way about when I really like someone. It's like I can see your DJ headphones. Like right now they're not on you, but like I can see that glow around your head. I can see those thick one ear off. Like I can see that dj headphones like right now they're not on you but like i can see that glow around your head i can see those thick one ear off like i can see that glowing above you yes but i see it

in you i want everyone even who's listening to just like really check in with themselves like you have you hated on djs and is it because you want to be a dj and everyone think about it everyone wants to be in control of the playlist even if it's just at the party in your you're alone in your room like everyone wants to pick out their favorite music we all want to be that's how I got there I was the person who made cds and mixtapes for all of my friends and family and it brought me like a sense of like really deep pride in myself to be like wow they like that mix I made so then I got into the the whole, I can do this for the masses. Wait, did you have a DJ name? Oh, you're not going to like it, that part either.

It has to do with my dad. So my dad's name is Edgar and his last name is Kuhn. So I put the two together and it was actually the name of his two shipping vessels that my dad owned. So it's not Cougar, it's Cougar. Cougar. Cougar. Cougar, Kuhn Edgar. But it was also the name of his ships because it was Cougar 1 and Cougar 2.

I know, Dave, just please forgive me. Cougar. Is anyone else thinking about how my daughter's middle name is Estelle, her last name is King E.K., that's your dad's initials? Esther, you've got to give it up. I'm fine with that. I think I'm pretty stuck on the my dad having two ships to give it up. I'm fine with that. I think I'm pretty stuck on the my dad having two ships part of it all. That was obviously like jarring for me.

My dad was like a hardcore nepo baby. And then he left us with fucking nothing, like a fucking apartment full of cockroaches. That's what he left us with. But yeah, he was a very rich kind of like rich old bachelor type that came from and squandered his family's wealth type guy. I want before I say what I have to say, I want to be very clear that I love being on the podcast. I'm a huge fan of you both. And I actually do feel a deep spiritual connection to you. Thank you.

And I do really think highly of you. However. What I'm about to say is obviously a little bit of an unlikable thing to say to someone that you're new friends with. But you saying just now to all of us on camera lit up in the warehouse in Glendale on mic that your DJ, you named your DJ name after your dad's two ship vessels that he owns was so cartoonishly evil that like a sitcom writer would write it for a character that we're not supposed to like you know what i mean and then everyone in the room would be like it's too not realistic we have we can't use that they'd be like red check to what didn't work didn't work didn't work and i that's crazy because you are a likable person but that's a crazy detail to reveal i know it is it's weird i named my dj name after my dad's two ships is nuts and then i think that's

beautiful and i want to thank you thank you oh my god thank you for saying that do you think that that sentence is being said somewhere in malibu right now too like that that's happened that's like a very normal la culture thing like my dj name is named after my dad's two vessels yeah i mean have you ever considered playing dj no and i realized it's because I'm a hater and because I'm jealous of DJs. Yeah. And that's that's really hard to say out loud. And you've heard me say a lot of things that should be hard. And that's the one. But yeah, I love playing music like you. I used to make mix CDs for everyone in my family. And I love lately I've been making play you know what they like I learned from like the young girlies that they do is they make playlists that are like extremely specific where

it's like laying on the beach in can I don't even know if there is a beach in can so that's probably a bad example but like they make these really specific moods and that's like what I want to get into like I want to make fantasy playlists do Do you know what I'm talking about? I'm doing that, yeah. You are? I do that, yeah. What are some of your... Mine are again all really like not relatable. Like mine is literally like driving down a two-lane highway in Missouri

and it's like country songs from 2003 that like charted for one. Like it's not interesting. It's not fun. I do some of the things that the young girlies do in the most non-aesthetic, non-interesting way. So I'm like with them. I definitely create the playlist vibes vibes or mine will be like the more relatable ones I will do will maybe be like um like uh coming of age indie movie afternoon you know something like that where I'm like writing if I want to like ride a bicycle or something yeah this is this is unlocking a whole new area of fantasy and imagination for me like

I'm into it it's a lot of fun actually one of my and imagination for me. Like I'm into it. It's a lot of fun. Actually, one of my biggest, one of the biggest things I get depressed about is when my life doesn't feel like a movie, which is most of the time. But you know, you know, days where your life feels like a movie and you're like, God, going to the grocery store felt so poetic today. Do you ever have one of those? Well, then when I have one of those and then the next day is not like that and going to

the grocery store feels like the truth, which is like a horrible, then i get depressed because i'm like what happened to me i used to be so majestic yesterday have you guys ever been getting dumped by a guy before and in his like speech of him breaking up with you he you can all of a sudden you're like oh he's the main character and he thinks he's the main character he thinks or he's the main character. He thinks or he is? Because you started with he is. No, in his mind, he is. And I just have these memories of being dumped and being like, wait a second,

like the way he's talking about me, it's like he thinks this is all about him. I don't know. Have you ever had that happen to you? I think I'm him. This is going to be painful for you, but we already know this is where we differ the most. I've never been dumped.

And see, that was over the line. And so, again, bringing that up just now, that was your tattoo moment. Throwing that in Esther's face was crazy. It is true that she's never been dumped and I've never dumped anyone. Wow. We really are meant to. Yeah, it's crazy. I've never been dumped.

Wait, this will never end. And what's funny is that like I'm so afraid of that kind of rejection that like maybe I've like curated a life to where that could never possibly like happen to me. Wait, and I've curated a life where I will always be dumped in some way, I think. Well, that's because you never leave even if they're not good people. Yeah. Interesting. That is interesting.

I've never considered. I'll say something kind of embarrassing because we've all been vulnerable here today. I don't think I've ever considered that I wasn't the main character. I don't think there's a moment where I've considered that. But I feel like that's how people should be living, right? Yeah. No. I've mostly only considered that I'm i'm the guy me too but that's why when i've had a guy break up with me and i get these glimpses

where he's the main he's like side charactering me and his little monologue i'm like whoa there are monologues when people when you've been dumped yeah well i mean let's i mean i've had many rejections in my life including from from my own parents, of course. So I feel as though there's a reason why I protected myself from dumpings in general. Now, I've definitely been rejected, but I do think that it is good practice to sort of be in that position of dumpy. And now that I'm approaching 40, maybe I'm going to have a being dumped era. Who knows? And I'm open to it. I think we to have a being dumped era. Who knows? And I'm open to it.

I think we all know that. To be absolutely crushed. I don't see that for you. I think we all know that's not coming. I don't see that for you. And I think there's a part of you that brought it up knowing that as well. I think we all know that's not coming for you. Yeah.

And I hope you'll take that as the compliment that it is. I did something toxic recently in the dumping arena. Yeah. I was seeing this person in New York I date a lot in New York just because I don't know it goes easier for me over there so now I have to fly across the country

to date it's insane and I was dating this person in New York and they were really into it and oh god maybe I shouldn't be saying this I don't know if they're watching they are great

they are legitimately great you know when you're seeing someone you're just like I don't know if I can commit to this right now. No matter how great you are, you live in a different city. I'm very busy right now. And this was the situation with them.

So I thought I was being nice. So I texted them and they were coming to my show in New York. I was doing a headlining show in Manhattan and they were going to come. And they were bringing friends. Okay? So I texted them before the show

and was like, hey, I think I should be clear that I'm not getting a romantic vibe off of this but I would still love for you to come to the show and be friends if you're into that and they were like um that's a departure from what I was thinking but cool and so okay and so they came out and we had a lovely night they met my friends at the after party and stuff and then I was in New York a couple weeks later back again and I was really horny and it was pretty late at night and I had gone on a bad day earlier in the evening.

This is a pickle. I did something really toxic and I don't like this behavior and I wouldn't normally do it but I texted them. Of course. And was like, what are you doing? And they were like, I'm out with friends and I was like, do you want to come over? And is that an insane text to send? And they were like, it is insane and yes. And then they come over and we hooked up.

And I don't think that was nice of me but it is what happened and it was a toxic thing to do but it's also what happens a lot also sorry i'm sorry go ahead because you're basically saying you were very clear about nothing romantic happening but it doesn't mean that there wasn't anything like sexual that could happen so there was a very i feel like you there was a line there being like okay this isn't going to go further emotionally but it doesn't mean like you can't like hug down the road don't you think the nicer thing to do though knowing that they were maybe feeling that way that they maybe would have been feeling an emotional thing would have been to just like jerk off don't you think that would have been right i mean you're right in that you knew that he possibly felt more for you.

And yes, super toxic, but also I've definitely done that. Okay, powerful. Yeah, we've all done that. We've all, you know, eventually called the good enough guy and said, well, all right, like, you know, I have time to spare and I'm horny. Like, why not? I just don't know if that's toxic because you had set that boundary. I think what the toxic version is like breadcrumbing and making it seem like what I feel like guys do to girls a lot in dating is like, you'll go, I hear this all the time. Like girls will go on a first few dates with a guy and they like roll out the red carpet, talk about how

they want to be a dad. Like, like they know what they're they're actively doing that right then they hook up and then they ghost and i feel like that's so on this other end of the spectrum was to just you you stated i don't see more yeah and then you're like but i think what i did was a middle ground of okay there was a way more acceptable thing to, which would just be like not send the text when you're horny. And then there was a way worse thing to do, which was like never send the text clarifying my feelings in the first place. I think I did the middle ground toxic thing, but it was toxic behavior. Here's what I'll say. If a guy had done that to one of my girlfriends, I would think he was a piece of shit.

But because I did it, I was kind of like, well, there's gray area. Yeah. Always. Yeah. Always. Yes. Is this okay to say, or is this like, isn't it okay with guys, guy on guy?

Isn't it different? I think a lot of gay men feel the way that you're saying. I don't think I, I don't think so. I think I disagree. It sort of seems like this guy liked you too, right? Yeah.

Yeah. I hope to God. I think that's where it gets um complicated is if there are feelings involved and you're aware of feelings then you you do have to tread you have to be more sensitive about like how far you take it with that person but i think what esther's pitching is that it doesn't matter if it's gay men's feelings don't matter men's feelings yeah yeah that's what you're pitching yeah that's an interesting pitch i feel like for obvious reasons i probably have to disagree just based on my situation

in the world. But I can understand where you're coming from. It can be, I think that could be a powerful idea. What's your ratio of dumper and dumpy? I don't really do relationships. So there's not a lot of getting, and it's not something I like. I really would like to do relationships. I've been out for 10 years and I've done a lot of casual sex and I have done a lot of casual, like casual things. So there's never really been a big

foundational breakup. Most of my heartbreak has been unrequited love. And that was in my earlier, like my late teens, early twenties. That unrequited love, young teen unrequited love hurts more than any kind of like adult love I've ever felt. I think the longing, the yearning, the never getting that to me is like earth shattering. You've never had that? Where you just could not get the guy that you wanted? Is that so unrequited? It doesn't, that my high school stalking thing

wouldn't fall under that? Were you stalking your guy? No, because you guys had previously been together. So I would say that, oh, you were previously together. I, yeah, I was a guy I was dating who dumped me and that I'm not over him 15 years later, even though I have a baby and a husband. Right.

So I would definitely categorize that as unrequited love. Yeah, I would feel very comfortable calling that unrequited love. In a beautiful way. And I have had those in my life. That's a nice way of saying stalker, for sure. Well, I think the stalking is an escalation. I think the stalking is a separate component but a beautiful i think stalking when women do it i think it's so powerful

isn't unrequited love more like um would it be like if i you crush on a celebrity from afar is that no no unrequited love esther no no unrequited love is like a reachable love and there's proximity to you and that person, but you never quite get there with them. And there's two types, right? It's either they know about the love you have for them or they never do. But either way, it's like equally as painful. I actually think we were wrong to say no to Esther on that. I actually, because I understand when you were describing it, I was like, you're right, but then I'm like, what about the definition of unrequited says it can't be a celebrity? Well, that's more

fantasy, almost. It is a fantasy, but isn't unrequited love rooted in fantasy as well? The fantasy that this person would be into me. I mean, the fact that I did cry for days over Devon Sawa. Exactly correct. I mean, maybe you're right. I think there's maybe, I think you might, there might be be I would love for the listeners

to weigh in I think there might be people out there who could defend you and convince me okay I don't think you've made the case quite yet just by asking the question

but I think if you really wanted to go toe to toe I think you could beat me on this I think I might be wrong my initial reaction might have been wrong never been more obsessed

with a guest really I know we started off a little terse and I'm very hard to kind of get to know, but I've been over here sweating because I love you so much. I know. I'm literally in my head. I'm like, how do we get him back as soon as possible?

I'll come back anytime. I love a good drive out to Glendale. I love the warehouse. I would come back anytime. I love you guys. Thank you for having me. And also, you can be terse with me anytime I would love

next episode that I'm on probably we'll record again in the next week or so I hope I would just love to get things good between you two I would just love

to get some kind of foundational something going different between the two of you because it's clear to me all jokes aside that you guys are in a very precarious position

there is a malevolence in the studio that I don't frankly want the baby around and I think y'all have got to figure out the animus and the kind of rancor that's existing in this area. Let's just call it cultural for now we have cultural differences. Yeah we can call it that as long as we're gonna fix it

Caleb you are literally the funniest human walking this planet and i love your podcast so true so true and everyone should check it out and are you on tour where else can we see you now that we're all completely obsessed with you oh and addicted welcome i just i just finished tour i might do another one soon um but yeah follow me online caleb says things on everything if you want to i absolutely hate it on there but it is a huge part of my life um it's really just follow my the only place I'm having fun online truly follow me everywhere because it's important for my career and share the stuff and comment too like oh my god you're so funny you should be paid a lot of money um

but my Instagram stories if you see me posting songs on there know that that's when I'm really living what do you mean I love posting songs on my instagram just like a screenshot of the song sure a screenshot a recording of me listening to a song i just love to share music on my instagram so that's when i'm happiest so you're a dj i'm a dj i am actually sorry um this podcast episode today is i guess me coming out as a dj and i just want to thank y'all thank you congrats sweet i'm sorry that we outed you i feel like this was wrong of us caleb thank you so much and thank you to our slugs we'll see you next week with a brand new episode oh my gosh. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.