Trash Tuesday w/ Esther Povitsky & Khalyla Kuhn - Comedy, Identity & Motherhood w/ Rosebud Baker

Episode Date: July 30, 2024

One of our faves & NY bestie Rosebud Baker is back in the stu this week! Obviously the episode is full of Lolz but we get a bit deeper this week about motherhood, identity, and how everyone deals with it differently - a good listen for anyone - whether parenthood is on the menu or not. Enjoy!! #Rosebud forever. More Rosebud: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rosebudbaker Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@rosebudbakerstandup Website: https://rosebudbaker.com   00:00 Can you be a harlot & a housewife?              00:30 Esther takes back everything she’s ever had 03:00 Rosebud Baker Brings Up Lice 06:30 People Ignore Moms 13:00 Rosebud’s Mom Vs. Khalyla’s Mom 18:48 Loving Our Kids Loving Us 26:00 Being a Mom Doesn’t Have to Be Your Only Identity 29:00 We Check in About Sex Drive 36:41 Eating your twin/sibling in the womb 40:00 Let’s Allow The Girls to Choose Their Journey 43:00 Esther’s Motherhood Made Her Realize Her Growth   FOLLOW US: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/itstrashtuesday Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@itstrashtuesday   Listen to Trash: Trash Tuesday Podcast iTunes Audio Feed: https://bit.ly/TrashTuesdayPod Trash Tuesday Podcast Spotify Audio Feed: https://bit.ly/TTPodAudio   More Esther: Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@esthermonster Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esthermonster More Khalyla:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/khalamityk Tigerbelly Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@TigerBelly   Production: Stella Young: https://www.instagram.com/estellayoung Tiny Legends, LLC: https://www.instagram.com/tinylegends.prod   Shot and Edited By:  Guy Robinson: https://www.instagram.com/grobfps Sean Wanless: https://www.instagram.com/soundandshutter   Art Direction and Social Media: Ariel Moreno: https://www.instagram.com/jade.rabbit.cce   Branding & Music: Branding & Logo: https://www.instagram.com/jason_cryer Theme Song: https://www.instagram.com/bobbyleelive Banana Break Song by: Can Nguyen: https://www.candyedits.com

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it's you can be both i i'm not because i i'm like dead from the waist down i don't well your pelvis is i don't want to anything um i'm like the last time i f***ed someone i gained 70 pounds i'm good okay i have to drop a bomb on you guys that's i it's not crazy to me but i just want to know if this is crazy for you to hear this i miss being pregnant what she sounds so psychotic when she says that because it was like episode after episode of like guys this shit sucks yeah one and done i'm never doing this again why did i it was that and to hear her say i can't yeah i can't i can't really wrap my mind around that. Why? That one. I just. Say more. Well, you didn't have. I guess you didn't have like the split pelvis thing that I that I had.

But I. But you were. It was really bad. Yeah. You hated it. Yeah. I hated it. It was the worst time of my life.

So why do you want to be again? I don't know. She's so. I'm telling you, she's something I don't understand. It's either masochism something has shifted yeah do you do you just is it that you were like a distinct individual and now and now i have no identity and now you're yeah yeah now it's like you don't know who you are because that yeah that i understand you do yeah i get it from that perspective okay but okay but now that i'm starting to like kind of feel like myself again, like, now I'm like,

f*** that. Like, I was, like, walking with her yesterday. I was like, one is perfect. I'm great. Really? So, okay. Yeah. Why, why is this happening to me then?

Why? Because I really was miserable. You need to hang out with another kid. Have another kid over. Have somebody drop their kid at your house for like 24 hours. A toddler. You've had that? Yeah.

Why have you had that happen? Because I was like, this feels so hard. And my sister was in town and I was like, oh, I'll watch my niece for the day. And then I watched my niece for the day. And by the end of that day, I was like, if the wind blows hard in my face, I'll cry. Like, it was like that. You know what I mean? And I've seen my friends.

I just met up with a friend, like, on tour. I was like, my friend had two kids, and she was dying to see us. And she was like, let's hang out, please, please. And, like, we got to the park. She's in the park with her two kids. She's like, they're sick. I didn't tell you. I just really needed to see someone. And then she was in the she's in the park with her two kids she's like they're sick i didn't tell you i just really needed to see someone and then she was like he's got lice and

i was like what like but and so then i was like okay we're gonna we're gonna go to lunch and she was like can i come and i was like no like both your kids are sick i'm sorry he's got lice i mean can i say something even maybe more psychotic than that? Lice is one of my favorite childhood memories. What? Because of the picking? Yes. The one time that my mom showed me, like,

I think, like, genuine attention is when she would, we had this thing called a sood. Sood is like a really fine-tooth comb. Yeah. And I just liked my hair being played with, and I was like, oh, I think my mom had this thing called a soot soot is like a um like a really fine tooth comb yeah and i just liked my hair being played with and i was like oh i think my mom loves me because we had you know a difficult relationship i was like look my mom is like caring for me in ways that she usually wouldn't and so lice and worms worms were a fond memory for me how do you go up the butt for that

or what do you do oh we used to have to take something for it i'm sure it was like some version of like ivermectin or something like that. Yeah, yeah. But then the worms would come out your butt and they felt, as a kid, it was a sensation that I, that was very. It was anal. It was anal for childhood. Yeah. Yeah.

I remember pulling a worm out of my butt and liking it. I know that sounds crazy. Oh my God. I must have been like seven but i was like this isn't so bad i'm not even sick but this thing's coming out it was cool and it was weird and it sounds exciting like it's if you're a kid and everyday life is boring and then one day a worm comes out of your butt you're like animals yeah you create a core memory you could give it a name like as a kid i could see yeah thank you esther i mean you were a dog she was

a dog yeah i wanted to be called jacob or pongo i thought i was a male dog for many years of my childhood you too i wanted to be a horse when i grew up that was like that was a different wait like horse girl yeah no i just wanted to be a horse like you wanted to when you grew up be a horse like what do you want to be when you grow up, be a horse. People were like, what do you want to be when you grow up? I was like, a horse. Okay. Kind of. Being a comedian, it's like, also possibly a sign of some mental instability. Yeah. I'm like, nobody thought to put me in a Montessori.

I'll say this. Nobody thought, like, maybe she's a sensory learner after that. I'd rather be a horse than a stand-up comedian. Me too. I think you were right. Stand-up comedian, I'm just more myself. That's horrible. What I was aspiring towards was a different species.

But there is that girl who runs on all fours really effectively. Have you seen her? Yeah, yeah, I have. The horse girl. And I think that she stole your dream, basically. Yeah, except she didn't get a horse body. Like, that was a main part of my dream. Did you watch Fantasia and the centaurs?

I think that must have been, like, kind of where it came from, was, like, the... Because they could fly, right? They were just really presented as something very, like, strong and beautiful in Fantasia. Oh, right, that's Pegasus is the flying horse.

Yeah, Pegasus is the flying... Yeah, wings. Okay. Let's go back. A full intro first. Oh, wait, okay, fine. But then we have to go back to something. Today. Let's go back. A full intro first. Okay, fine. But then we have to go back to something. Today we have Rosebud Baker.

She's been on the show before. She's literally my favorite human. She's so funny. She's on tour right now getting ready. So you did this cool thing where you filmed, you're filming a special, but you filmed half of it before you had your baby and you're filming the second half after.

Yeah. That's genius. Oh, well oh well i think i can't wait i mean it feels like a good idea but it's not done so it's one of those things where if it's bad people are gonna be like it was a good idea so there's that valid and it's not gonna be bad i've seen all your clips you're hilarious okay now we know who rosabett is but you already knew let's go back let's bring yourself back to right after you had your baby okay is there any please no by the way please no was there any part of you then that was like i would do this again no really no what's wrong with me i don't i think that's i think what you're experiencing is normal what's wrong with you i don't i don't think anything's wrong with me either i think it's like you just like it's this crazy experience and nobody really tells you like how to go through it there's no like guide for the transition into motherhood there's like you know there's no like

songs about it or anything like that we can't like no one most people want to ignore that moms exist like they don't and even i after becoming a mom was like oh i don't respect this and i and i i was like that's a that's a bad place to be in to be like oh i just became something I've never respected it's like that's a really difficult place to be so you know there's like a while there where I was just like what is this and I would walk around and I would like see but but I didn't want I didn't want to do it again because I was still so much in it and I felt like so overwhelmed by it that I was like I can't no yeah I mean my mom I talked to my mom mom yesterday and this is how she described early motherhood.

Yeah. Because I was like, what was it like? Like having a newborn? She was like, you know what? Like I would look at you or I would look at your sister when she was born and I would think to myself, like, who are you? Like, I don't even know who this thing is, what this thing is. But then eventually I got to a point where I felt really sorry for you.

And I was like, wow, like I'm the only one that can keep this thing alive. I was like, wow, how sentimental and emotional. Like her explanation of it was just so like painful to hear. Cause I was like,

oh, you didn't have that. Like she didn't have that maternal like drive immediately. It took her a while yeah and i found that really interesting because i think you're right it can go so many different directions for people yeah this is the thing that jesse klein wrote about in her second book it's so good um and she says that everyone wants to picture their mom as like when they're a new when they you know when you were a newborn that your mother is this like goddess who's just like just there to purely care for you.

But it's like the truth is your mom is like stressed and, you know, there's all these things. But we want to picture it this other way. Yeah. I mean, it's like you think of them as like a god or whatever. But now I'm like I look at my mom and I go like, Oh, I get, I get what the, I get why she fucked up or like I, or why I thought she would have fucked up. Like I, she was just a human being who had a child and had no, no way of like understanding children. Right. She had five, five. Wow. Yeah. And she's like, but my mom's a great mom. I never had any real, like,

you know, issues with my mom. I mean, I, that sounds like someone that doesn't know themselves, but like, you know what I mean? But as far as it was pretty typical, my life is perfect. Yeah. Yeah. But like, it was pretty typical. Yeah. And, um, all your, it's all girls, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's all girls. We don't make men in my family. Women. That is five girls. Yeah. Did is five girls yeah did she keep going did she keep going because she was hoping for a boy uh i think she kept going because my dad was hoping for a boy i think that's what it was let's make that tracks you know i think that's really what it was but and were you had you there were twins in your family yeah and were they

was that an accident or like i don't think anybody has twins on purpose. I don't think anybody's like, oh, let's. I mean, I think it's like a positive once people find out, oh, okay, we've got two. We can be done after this. Right. But like, you don't have twins last on purpose. You know, like they were like really hoping for a boy and they got twin girls. And they were like, okay, we'll stop here.

This is becoming a problem now. OK, to a couple of things. I have so many things. My brain goes crazy when you're here. Firstly, last time you said that you had like you now see that motherhood is its own expression of creativity. And like that's how your mom was creative as a mom. Yeah. And I could not agree with that more now that's how your mom was creative as a mom yeah and I could not agree with

that more now that I'm a mom I feel so fulfilled creatively like just by being a mom yeah and I just thought that was such a beautiful thing that you said and like gave credit to and I'm like so glad that you did because it's obviously resonating with me now um also and forgive me this is like you know difficult, but now that you are a mom, like does, cause I know that you lost a sibling when you were younger. Yeah. Does, how does that, is it so much, do you view that differently? I look at my mom now and I go, how the fuck did you survive?

Like, I, I like, so we just passed the anniversary of her death and I, I don't really say things from like on a sentimental level to my family. Like I try to avoid any kind of sentimentality, especially with my mom, because she is so sentimental that I'm like, okay, you got to stop. Like we can't, I don't have enough time to listen to the tears. Like we can't, I don't have enough time to listen to the tears. But I did on that day text her and just be like, you know, none of us could have, the fact that you were able to show up and mother the rest of us'm like it's just incredible to me what she was able to like go through and she's so positive that i'm like what it's crazy i mean i'm truly like the angel of death next to my mom next to my mom like her attitude is like she's

so happy she's like if she was sitting on this set it would feel like mr rogers neighborhood like she's so yeah wait can i ask you about that what's it like growing up with a happy mom it's nice i mean it's nice like i really like she was really fun and she wanted to play games with us and she was like excited you know holy shit she was yeah she was like really a great mom this is so mind-blowing yeah i've never and this is it hurts me to say i never saw my mom jenny i've never seen my mom genuinely happy maybe like now in the last like 10 years i've seen like glimpses of it but i cannot think of a single memory where I felt like oh there's mama doing what she loves or feeling good or it was always just a general feeling of like despair and like fear and anxiety that's all I felt like her essence was fear and anxiety and I I I'm so envious when I hear you

say like oh my mom's like it's like Mr. Rogers yeah it's like that must have been such like a like great feeling to be around it was um but there was also something about it there's like there have been times you know I want to give her like credit where it's due but I also feel like there have been times where it's like I felt you know like I couldn't say when something made me angry or when something made me upset like and so now and I've always been kind of like a bulldog uh just personality wise and I think there were things about my personality that kind of scared my mom a little bit that were like she just found them to be like a little harsh or aggressive I have that too with my mom where I like distinct memory found them to be like a little harsh or aggressive i have that too

with my mom where i like distinct memory of her being like like us fighting you know that teen fight where you're the era where you're every girl's fighting with their mom and i just remember she said something like i don't understand how you're my kid like we i was so different from her yeah and that is challenging right but now we're so close yeah but yeah and I think about that a lot now like is my daughter gonna be so different from me and hate me like probably right yeah but but I think of course I mean and the thing is you won't even know why until she's 30 so it doesn't matter like I was thinking about that I was like at work and Andy had taken our daughter on stage at one point like he was like doing a set

and our babysitter left and so he was like I gotta bring her and I was like keep her the fuck off all comedy stages no matter what just don't do you know like that was kind of something that we had agreed on and he was like well I have to make it to the set and like he brought her and I was at work and I got this call I had facetimed him and I saw that she was there and I was at work and I got this call. I had FaceTimed him and I saw that she was there and I was just like, and I was really hormonal and I just started like crying in my office and it was, yeah. And somebody, another writer walked in and I was like, I'm sorry. I'm like,

I just feel like my daughter is like at a comedy club right now and she's like a baby and they don't belong there and like they're you know what i mean like keep her the fuck away from our disgusting lives please you know and i don't know why i just i was just like please just keep her away from that it's disgusting there's like fucking pedophiles everywhere i just keep her out of it and i so i was like you can't hand her to anybody so he went on stage with her in a in a fucking baby bjorn because i was like don't hand her off to any comic i don't want anybody touching her so he was like okay but i'm crying in my office and my friend walks in and i was like is she gonna hate me when she like sees this stuff and he looked at me he was like she's gonna hate

you but not for this like it'll probably be for something else and I was like oh yeah you're right and it's like that's why I love my friends that don't have kids because they'll be like you can say something that's like really upsetting and they just kind of have this like amazing like they can take you out of your own hormones for a second and be like okay this is how the world really is and And like, I felt better. Yeah, that's so real too. It's like, how would we ever know what is going to be the thing that they're upset about later? We have no idea. We're clueless when it comes to that.

I heard this thing by Gabor Mate. And he basically is like, if your parents give you this much shit. Me nodding like I know who Gabor Mate is. give you this much shit and even nodding like i know who gabor mate is it's like this he's like this amazing um um psychiatrist um man who's just studied early childhood development and trauma yeah and the effects of that he's totally in my algorithm right now i know i give it what does this give to me i want to hear so basically it was he says it a lot more beautifully because he just is very poetic with everything he says but there's this girl who asks him like you know i'm very like you know i don't know if i want to be a mom not be a mom and he was like what are you most afraid

of and it's like you know like fucking her up he's like oh you absolutely will but if you take if your mom gave you this amount of shit or your parents did, and if you give them even like a smidge less than that, you've done a great job. Yeah. Like if you've just lessened the amount, because there's still, you're still going to fuck them up one way or another. We just aren't aware of what kind of,

how, how we can fuck them up. Cause like the world will change. We, there's so many things that they have to adapt to that. Probably like, we don't know what that is yet. Totally.

You can't protect your kid from having a human experience. I'd love to. I'm thinking about how. I'm going to keep her in the closet that is her nursery right now. What do you guys think, though? I know the whole nurture versus nature thing, but do you think that kids do come with their own factory settings, or do you put those settings in? I think that it's like the personality character come as they are and then you can't do a lot to change them that's sort of like what i think i've heard

right i have no fucking idea i don't know i mean we'll see you know there's definitely going to be stuff in there that i'm like i'm not i don't know if it's genetics i don't know if it's this i don't know if it's that i just kind of i'm like excited to see who she is like right now it's really fun to watch her personality start to like coalesce and like see where because she's she's really kind of cunty in like a fun way how is that possible like anytime Andy comes up to like give her a kiss she like the other day he came up to give her a kiss and she went like this and like like I'm with my mom. You know what I mean? Like, she's got this thing right now where it's like, she just wants to be with me.

And it's, oh, God, it feels really good. And, yeah, it makes me feel like a god. It's fucked up. But, like, and she, if something, if you're messing with her, if she has a hat on, she'll be like. And she makes these sounds that are like. You know, like, she would be her, if she has a hat on, she'll be like, and she makes these sounds that are like, you know, like she would be cursing if she could, but she can't. So it's like, it's just kind of fun to see like who she is and what she's going to be like. And then she also is really like sweet and friendly. And like, she loves like anytime we walk into a place where

there's a lot of people moving around, she starts kicking her legs. And she's like, whoa, what's going on here? Like, she's like a party animal. So I'm like, it's like fun to see. I don't, you know. Well, you also think about, like, because, okay, this is how naive I was. And this was very recent, too, where I was talking to my friends. I was like, I always wanted to know what it would be like to have a full sibling. Because I only have one sister.

She's a half sister. always wanted to know what it would be like to have a full sibling because I only have one sister she's a half sister and then I and then I was saying something like but it probably would have never been a good thing because my personality like I wouldn't and having another me in the house would have been like too much and I wouldn't have liked it and then my friend who has like three siblings was like you're not the same as your siblings like your sibling wouldn't be exactly like you yeah and then you think like oh so how could it be nurture if like you're raised the same like you and you are you and your sister's all very different we're completely different it's so crazy that blows my mind yeah like that has to be it's the same it's kind of cute though

it's like my sister and i are completely opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of personality. Like everything about us is so opposite. But we're basically like, what do they call them, Irish twins. We're like a year apart, right? Yeah. We're so close. We're so bonded. We feel, we almost feel like twins.

Like we can finish each other's sentences, but we could not be more different. In all the ways. But it's kind of this like harmonious like you're you're there is like a a deeper understanding there because you grew up in the same like household you have the same abuser yeah all the same trials and you're in the trenches with them right yeah um don't you guys think that that's also related to birth order? Like that? Yes. Yes. Because she really is like she takes she is very much an older sister, even though we're very close in age. See, my sister and I, I'm older than her, but she feels so much older than me. Really? I'm like bought a house first, had a kid first.

Are you the firstborn? Yeah. Oh, you are an unusual firstborn. You are not reading like a firstborn yeah oh you are an unusual firstborn you are not reading like a firstborn at all you are a very unusual firstborn how can you read that you you have the youngest sibling energy you have like the rebel um yeah spirit okay yeah i don't well my i guess my youngest sibling is most like me in the family so So like the youngest is, we're the most similar. But like, yeah, I don't, I guess it's weird because we're not, my sister who's younger than me does seem much older. Well, there you go Stella, you're debunked.

Talk to me about how you're changed by motherhood. Because I am like, if I could go back and just delete everything about myself from pre-motherhood I would just easily press that button like I don't like who I was before I don't know why I waited so long like I am so all in on this but maybe this will fade maybe this is just like the honeymoon phase like where are you at what do you think of this i had a totally different reaction than you to that i had like a yeah it was harder for me to let go of like um my identity of pre-motherhood you know i felt like i really had done i felt like i'd done a lot of work on myself that i was i and i i I was like, I know who I am in a way that feels really secure to me. And I like that.

And like the thing about motherhood that scared me the most was how I didn't, I really genuinely was like, oh, I don't know like who I am anymore. Like I know who I was, but I don't know who who I am now and I don't like that I don't like that that I don't like that feeling I love her I love being around her but being a mom feels alienating and weird and isolating and even when I talk to other moms sometimes I feel totally isolated like I'm talking to people not so much anymore but when I first when I first had her I felt like I was talking to everybody from behind like a glass and um and so I that that was really hard for me um now I'm slowly kind of realizing like I'm reading this book it's called um

it'd be cool if i could remember the name of it um matrescence oh i'm reading that too yeah and it talks about the cut right the cut talked about that yeah yeah and i'm i'm like it talks about how like caterpillars they have like they'll when they go into their chrysalis they dissolve themselves their bodies dissolve themselves into goo and they are and they're able to hold on to memories from before they were butterflies or moths oh and they they tested this by giving them like ethyl acetate while they were caterpillars that like and electric shocks or whatever and then when they became butterflies they tested the the ethyl acetate and they were like they still didn't like it so you that was one of the ways that they found out that they can hold on to memories i love that which is so cool and this

was like i think the the term was coined like in the 70s right and this author yeah and then she brought it back because it describes so much of you know like now that we're actually paying attention to the not always the plight but just motherhood in general and what that does it always makes me think when i hear that word matrescence it makes me think of the word matricide which is from psycho when you kill your own mom anyway where are you going with that what's called matricide and patricide yeah and matricence ends when you kill your own mom so that's actually that's the end of matricence but that's so cool so butterflies remember yeah their previous selves before the entire

metamorphosis is over with okay so keep explaining because i read it and i didn't understand it i need you to keep going just like that to me is a really it's like valuable because we were distinct we were our distinct selves before having a kid and so and then you become like two people in one and that's really confusing because you're like I don't even know what my body wants anymore if this is me wanting this or if this is the other person wanting this and like and like everything feels different like traffic is louder is one of the things that like she talks about in the book that was really true for me every traffic became so loud and like the sense of smell smell was crazy but like for me it was like scanning dangerous situations seemed much

more dangerous like i was always scanning for saying during pregnancy or after having the baby? Both. Okay. But that's what I learned too from that documentary, Babies, is how the, your brain chemistry completely changes and that's why like this, you have a new, a new level of anxiety and the scanning thing. And you can't remember celebrities names. That's also, that also happens.

That helps. But I, it feels like that I'm not really answering the question exactly because it's so hard to answer but to me the most difficult part of motherhood is like I I've always been what I consider a feminist and I feel like most feminists don't, they sort of leave moms out of the equation. Like motherhood has kind of been left out of feminism in a way that I've found to be like really hard to work into my way of being. my way of being you know i get that because i do see the trend of even like the child free conversation which is great really ties it there is a there is a kind of like more um it's it's more adjacent to feminism than motherhood is even the anti-child or the child free thing right like when you talk about conversations of like just, you know, whatever wave of feminism

that we're in, it's always like, well, I get to not have children. And so it kicks the conversation in motherhood like as like a separate thing. Right. And I think that's important, too, because I go it's it's always bothered me that women are judged for not having children. They aren't believed when they say that they enjoy their lives without children. But then you become a mother,

and it's all of a sudden, it's like, no one gives a shit. Like, no one gives a shit. Even like, you know, people will watch the pod and be like, oh God, they're just like making moms. They make it their whole personality. It's like, well, it's not our whole personality. Well, for me it is.

Just so the listeners know, that is all I have moving forward, just to be clear. But it's like, even if I'm like somebody that wants both, I'm like, I still want to be my own person. Yeah, and I think I do too. And you do too. You know what I mean? Maybe, I don't know.

Whatever, you just had your baby. And it's like there's like a moment there where you're just like, this is it. Like, you know. But like I was having trouble with that. With that, like during that time period, I was like, it feels really weird to me that I can't. That I can't put my finger on like why I feel so invisible whoa you know and that was like and I guess on a fucking ego level it bothered me like oh yeah you know I was like this feels and I'm not talking about like hot or what I'm talking about just like after years of fine print

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your opinion about anything outside of that of outside of the realm of like motherhood and yeah gynecology and like you know what i mean i'm like i i would get questions about gynecology from friends that i hadn't heard of or heard from in years. And I'm like, what? Like, I have other things to talk about. You know what I mean? This is like you're kind of touching a little bit on this like subject that I feel like is a little bit sensitive. But like, I always wanted to ask you both because like, you know, just being hyper sexual minded person that I am, like having, you know,

really liking that part of myself and being sexual and being kind of horny, you know, whatever. I know, but it's like when you're pregnant, I know like in the second trimester, you get a lot of like weird sexual dreams, your blood is rushing to the right places, or at least, you know, my friends who are moms are like, Oh've never been hornier or whatever yeah luckily that only hit me in the third trimester when i was an absolute fucking whale but yeah i had none of that but you know pregnancy was like madonna whore complex right like is there a part of is there a part of motherhood where you kind of have to like put that aside temporarily in order to be like effectively like maternal or can you be like a hoe and a housewife truly you can be both yeah yeah that's what i'm saying like it's you can be both i i'm not because i i'm like dead from the

waist down i don't well your pelvis is i don't want to fuck anything. I'm like, the last time I fucked someone, I gained 70 pounds. I'm good. But like, but I do think that for me, like that, that's part of the thing. That's what I'm saying. It's like the fact that you in your own body are asking,

is it okay to be both of these things? It's like, if that's what you are, then how could it not be? Right. Cause it's like, you know what I mean? Is it okay to be both of these things it's like if that's what you are then how could it not be right because it's like you know what i mean is it okay that like you know to fantasize about you know gangbangs still right you know and it's like it feels so dirty because you're thinking like oh but i'm someone's mother but i'm like wait like I can have that duality can I not but the permission I think is because the way motherhood is talked about it kind of like takes that part away from you sometimes or there's a shame around it right when there really shouldn't be a shame around it yeah

well it's like I think that's I think that that's what I'm saying is like, there's so much patriarchy around motherhood where it's like, this is the most divine work that you could ever do. And this, and it's joyful and it's nothing else. It's just joyful. Like, you know what I mean? And it's like,

it's a lot of drudgery. There's a lot of fucking, it's hard. And it's like disgusting. And I like, I think I found shit in my underwear one day while I was pregnant. Like, I think I genuinely found shit in my underwear.

Like I'm, it's just, it's a disgusting process because it's natural. You know what I mean? And it's like nobody, it's not as pretty as people. The months I have of just drooling. Just drooling.

It really was though. I had excessive saliva this is one pregnancy symptom that i had forgotten until like last week and i was like oh i can't do that yeah i would feel so bad for you esther like we'd be on facetime and she would just have like three little towels or saliva towels and i was like talking to a newfoundland you would like you'd like wipe yourself off and she would like know, it would be not even real speech. It would be like a half gurgle because it was filling up in her mouth. And I felt so terrible for you.

That is so awful that I like that sucked. Yeah, I will not like I will not look back on that delusionally. Like that was horrible. Yeah. OK, back to this, like this feminism thing. I hadn't really thought about it until you're saying this, but I do feel a little bit of a shame in being so, how happy motherhood has made me.

Right. Because it's kind of anti-feminist to be like, oh, but I think that you'll fulfill. But it's not. But it's not. None of it is anti-feminist. It's just that motherhood tends to be kicked out of that equation. Yeah.

But I think that all versions of it are OK and all versions of it should be celebrated. But don't you understand why it would feel like you're almost like you're telling all the people who choose to be child free, like you're it almost feels like you're saying like oh you're you could only be fulfilled by motherhood or something but that's just my experience right now and i don't feel so excited to scream that from the rooftop because i you know what i mean but it's also not it's not necessarily true for other people yeah you know what i mean that's the other that's the thing that i go like it's it might not even be true for other moms. So that's the thing where. But but that's not anti-feminist.

It's your it's how you're feeling about your pregnancy and about your about your daughter. And I love hearing personally, I love hearing both sides of it. I love hearing the drudgery. hearing both sides of it i love hearing the drudgery i love hearing when people are just so loving being you know moms in this period i like all of it i like child free rants i like mommy rants and that's what it is it's like it feels as though you have to pick a side and you fucking don't if you're joyful be joyful say it from say it with your whole chest if you're miserable say it with your whole chest like all of it is okay if women are people right and that includes all different kinds of women and all different kinds of people and all different kinds like all different reactions to the same thing because people

will have different reactions to the same experience you you know? So that's like, and when I say like, um, when I'm talking about this, by the way, I'm like, I'm not talking about my daughter. My reaction to my daughter is very different than my reaction to motherhood. Right. Which they're two separate things, at least the way that I've felt them, the way that I've experienced them the way that I've experienced them you know and I think it's I think it's important to like mention that because you can't really talk it's this is another thing that's so fucking like I feel like trapped by is like I can't really say how my experience has been

without first being like but oh my god best thing i've ever done in my life blah blah blah like i can't i have to say that for people to hear the other part right you have to almost preface everything you say because there is that fear of of someone just someone could say something like oh i'd be what a horrible mother she must be or like they could say something devastating yeah which is like not even true no and because you are like I feel like because we were pregnant at the same time then you had your baby and then I was pregnant for a while and I was just having so much joy and watching and all the stuff that you shared with you and your daughter I was like oh my god this looks so fun she's so happy yeah this is amazing yeah and so that yeah there's no it's

i very much see the distinction of like how you feel about your baby versus motherhood on you yeah how i've just experienced you the last six months or whatever so i'm glad you're you're articulating that because i had never thought of it like that yeah it's different two different things yeah have you guys heard of chimerism no yeah i've heard of it but i don't i can't tripping me up so i i i think i learned about it once upon a time in college but you're seeing it more on tiktok now we're basically like you start off as twins right in the womb and then one twin sort of cannibalizes the other but then takes on their dna so you have split dna what it has to be two fraternal twins it cannot be identical so you

cannot have the same set of dna and so you could get away with murder basically because you have your brothers let's say for instance if you ate your brother or if you absorbed your brother. Right. Like an anglerfish. Yeah. So you're getting away with two murders. Right. So apparently.

What? What I find cool about it is that people with asymmetry in their face are finding out that they're not born naturally asymmetrical. It's because half of them is someone else. Stop. Is their twin twin that's not i swear to god it's true chimerism chimeral twins chimeral twins this is on tiktok and they become one it becomes one person it becomes one person oh no yeah so i'm like is it me oh no i know that's

what i was thinking for myself because i have like one Jean Claude Van Damme eye and then one normal what if I'm one of those you're not eligible you have one of the most symmetrical faces I've ever seen in my life we're not going down that road for you at this time yeah I mean you've been like

yassified by God thank you I was thinking how it would be so fun if you had two separate sets of people in you. Yeah. That does not sound fun. I'm already, like, there's so much inner conflict. Like, I couldn't imagine upping it.

I think there's something pretty sexy about, yeah, I absorbed someone in the room. I came in. Yeah. I came in hot. You know what I mean and imagine if they were like oh you have DID or like dissociative disorder like no I'm literally two people as well yeah right yeah you could use that as an excuse yeah anyways they're the most

non-binary people they really are yeah do you feel any of the brain changes from becoming a mom because i feel those really much more strongly than i ever could have imagined um i do feel um dumber in terms of like my everything is beyond the words are beyond my reach still in a way that i wasn't that's my whole life still not really cool with yeah i wouldn. And executive functioning was not on. I was not great at that before. But now it's like, I'm really struggling. That's always been my struggle. I'm always so envious of people whose brains are connected to their mouth and they can just get things out so fast.

Yeah. My processing speed has always been a little bit delayed. But it's like the thought is there. It just takes a while for it to travel to my tongue yeah just grabbing it out of the atmosphere is pretty tough so i don't need pregnancy for that i feel like i'm already yeah it's it's uh it's tough it's tough yeah i'm like i'm already allowed to open these by the way yeah are you allowed to open these i'm like is there like a do we cheers it? I forget. Okay. I have a question. Go ahead.

I just have a question as moms. Like, do you think the problem is sort of just within women sort of judging one another or judging choices that they make? Or like, do you think that's part of the problem is that we're, we're, we all don't have empathy for one another or people who are hardworking but don't have kids are like, it's not the same as being a mom. There's just all this judgment that's kind of created by women and the choices they make. I don't think that's created by women. Thank you, cheers banana. Yeah, it's definitely not created by women.

Not created by women but like culturally maybe taught to women, I don't know. I mean, that's the symptom. I mean, that's, I think, what women experience, like, you know, being pitted against each other, not having to have diverse stories, and all stories are acceptable. Right. But I don't think we created that amongst ourselves.

I think if men would believe that women can be happy with children or without them, maybe the women that have, like, severe internalized misogyny would fucking lay off each other you know and themselves a little bit yeah but i mean that's not funny but that's how i feel no it's that's so real yeah like it's funny i had a mom friend make a joke about that like something came up about being judgmental and she said something like we're moms like that's what like we do and i sort of thought that there was something cute to that it was the first time where i was like oh being judgmental is like part of what i do now yeah i don know. I really don't have a point with that, but I just had like a funny experience.

That makes me think of why my... Oh, moms can be judgy. It's fine. My aunties were just big, big gossipers. Yeah. I mean, gossiping was... But then I found out that like the Philippines where I'm from has like the lowest rate of serial killers. Because we were like a big gossip culture.

But I think it comes from the aunties and the moms who are always scanning their surroundings. We're very like kind of hyper vigilant about stuff, but are also really good at not keeping secrets and then telling their neighbors and each other like that dude was weird. And so I'm like, oh, like gossiping and judging maybe even prematurely. I'm like, oh, like gossiping and judging, maybe even prematurely. I'm like, it has its purpose. Like maybe that's a form of protecting your child. I think so. I don't know.

Like I'm open to that. Or yourself, you know? Yeah. I mean, I've I definitely whenever I'm like about to take a gig and I'll call somebody be like, have you done this? How were they? Yeah. You know, like, is this booker a criminal yeah you know

yeah it's like just intel yeah does the van have windows i think that i might have just been this is my theory about what's my little transformation i'm experiencing is i think i was just so wildly childish up until the minute I became a mom that like I had a lot of room to grow and to change whereas I feel like I look at some of my other friends and I'm like I don't think that they'll be this changed my motherhood because they're already like halfway there you know what I mean like I think I was just so immature but like I look at one of my best friends who's pregnant and I'm like, she's already a mom, you know?

Or like, I have a girlfriend who's a mom and I'm like, were you so changed by this? And then we look at each other, we're like, you were always like this. So I do think my change is because I was holding on to being a childish baby for 36 years. So it feels like a brand new experience. Yes.

Yeah. Do you feel like maybe you were not a childish baby? I don't feel, I've never felt like a child, even when I was a child. Okay, there we go. When I was a child, I didn't feel like one. I was like, I never like had my shit together, but I didn't, I did feel like I might not had my shit together but i didn't i did feel like i might not have my shit

together but you all are fucking idiots like that that's kind of how i've always i i always was like well whatever's going on over here they don't know what they're doing so i'll take care of myself yeah you know what i mean interesting i was always that so do you does that do you feel like but that has gotten worse in motherhood like it's almost like any character kind of defect that you have just sort of like like comes up it's the same way that like when you first start dating somebody you you have these like wild highs but then all of the parts of yourself that are like all of the parts of yourself that are like um wounded kind of start acting up that it's that on like on like 5 000 like you're just you and i didn't even start realizing it honestly until

this month like i was like oh shit i've been like hard on myself to a point that is detrimental to everyone around me, including myself. And now I'm like having to go, it's okay. It's not like, nobody's really paying attention to you like that. No one is like checking to see that you did it perfect. No one's checking it.

No one cares. I am so hard on myself. That is another huge, like new thing. I am so hard on myself as a mom. It's really, what is, is that like like new thing I am so hard on myself as a mom it's really yeah what is is that like on purpose I know from biology like I'm just so yeah maybe it is maybe it is like maybe it's biological but I think a lot of it is I don't know all I know is it's not good it doesn't feel good it feels bad don't do it but it's hard it's really hard how are you

attacking that how are you not being hard on yourself do you have advice um I like just became kind of more aware of it so I can't say that I've really made great strides yeah but one of the ways is like okay if I see my daughter and her dad having a moment where they're having fun, I try to like stand back and be like, OK. Like because he plays with her in a way where it's like today we were at the park and he like put her up in this tree. And I, you know, I'm like, and I just was like, OK, it's good for her. It's good for her to like move her body in different ways. And the way that he holds her is like more reckless and they wrestle. And like, it's good for her to like learn how to use her body that way.

Oh, that sounds so hard. Where I'm like, you have to just, I just want to like hold her and like, and be like, you're the sweetest little thing. I just did. You know what I mean? When I see even the little bit of rough, the tiniest bit of roughhousing with Donut, our dog, I'm like, that's so hard.

I can't handle it. I'm like, she's small. You don't understand how small she is. You're not paying attention to how small she is. Other dogs can handle that. She can't. That sounds really hard. I don't know how you, oh God.

But it's like, I also, my baby's a fucking tank. Like she's a real, you know what I mean? She's so big. Yeah, she's a. Not to bring in very grim statistics, but most young, grim pediatric statistics. No, but it's like, it is true, right? Like when children that you see, young babies,

shaken baby syndrome, subdural hematomas 99 of them are caused by dads like there's a reason why like you have that instinct to be like what are you doing with my child what even though it's like you see the value in them like spending time and like having this whole other kind of like parent in their lives yeah you gotta you know they don't have the same mechanism we do to not roll over our babies right like they i could be assaulted in a separate room and my boyfriend could be like just sleep through the whole night yeah not find my body till three days later right but they just don't have the same, like, mechanism. Yeah. And I think that inherently, like, biologically, we know they don't have that. Yeah.

So it's, like, it's so. Yeah. In the beginning, it was really, like, I think it was, like, biological. Like, just don't stay. I'm, like, I got her. You know what I mean? Yeah. Now it's a little more, like, okay, she's, like, almost nine months.

We can, you know, you can have a little fun with her i should i shouldn't like i shouldn't like hog her to myself because now when you try to give her a kiss she goes like get out of my face she's palming his face so i'm like we gotta work on this you know what i mean she has an affectionate dad who's like sweet and kind and um emotional and i didn't have that and i like, I want her to have that. So I'm like, let him around her. You know what I mean? Yeah.

That is interesting, though. I do like the stiff arm. I know, I do. I like it, too. That's so cute. I want to see that. It's really cute. Nothing would bring me more joy than my child stiff arming my partner.

It's pretty great. Yeah. It's pretty great yeah i'm i'm proud of her i'm like hell yeah i know i really want i i'd be lying if i didn't say i want to be i want her to watch her do that to dave and i love dave and i love her but i she will at one point she will i want to be number one yeah but i'm if she, when a day comes where it's like she switches teams and she's on her dad's side, I'm going to be like, I'm going to walk into the woods. I swear to God.

I wasn't here the last time you were here, but I do know that you had to tape your pelvis up. Is it? Yeah. And are you put back together? Yeah. And are you put back together? Yeah. It actually immediately goes back together after you give birth. And that was, I mean, when I tell you I was in more pain walking into the hospital than I was walking out after a C-section.

I'm not kidding at all. Like, I was in so much pain that when they gave me the spinal, like they put that needle in your back. I didn't feel it. I was like all the pain was like here and I was just miserable. I mean, on a level that I I I just have so much respect for like chronically ill people because I'm like that is a life that I felt that was the closest I've ever been to like genuinely like ill. And oh, my God, it was really brutal. But you know what else I what I realized after being pregnant, too, it's like, oh, it's not that like some people are weak and that pregnancy is hard for them. It's like some people, it's just not hard for them it's like some people it's just not hard for them yeah some people their bodies

are different and pregnancy is able to be this lovely beautiful time and like it just wasn't that for me like or for you yeah and because i a lot there's a lot of discourse online of like what's worse being pregnancy tired or newborn tired and like all these people like argue about it and i'm like there's no way to have this argument because everyone experiences both of those things so differently yeah there's no there's no universal answer because I was so I was like I swear pregnancy tired is worse there's no way newborn tired can be worse and I'm like this is it's different for everyone there's no answer here yeah so totally totally a lot of this episode has been about how miserable you were pregnant esther but it started out you saying that you wanted to be pregnant i know i still do

it's crazy i just wanted to point that out it's i something's something's wrong i in my brain i don't know what it is well it's also the rush of like i will say that I did say after I gave birth, I was like, oh, I get why people do this again. And I said, I get it. I didn't say that I want to do it, but I did say I get it. Can you explain why you got it? Because meeting her was the greatest feeling I've ever had in my life. Like, like seeing her holding her for the first time, meeting her was the greatest experience I've ever had.

And I love how you use the word meeting. It makes it so much more like, yeah, it's, it's, it's like seeing her face. It's a, it's a real like conscious being. Yeah.

People are like, Oh, when I had my baby, it's like, no, when you're meeting, you're meeting your daughter. It's conscious being. Yeah. People are like, oh, when I had my baby, it's like when you're meeting, you're meeting your daughter. It's so cool. Yeah. And she was like and she was just so loud and and she was so big and she was like she snored as a newborn. And I was like, that's so amazing.

Like I would like record her snoring on my phone and just like and I still like listen to it just to like remember that feeling of like and I still feel it every time I look at her like sometimes I look at her and I'm just like there's nothing new you can say about it because it's all been said it's all all of the all of the fucking you know the cliches are true um except for that you've never known love until you have a child that's a bullshit oh i disagree but oh that's i i find that to be like one of the most it's because it's not i don't think it's love i think it's a new feeling i think it's a brand new feeling it is a new feeling you're right but i did i did feel like oh this is so much more meaningful than anything else I've personally

felt. Yeah. Agreed. That would be. But it's not love because you love your partner. Yeah. But I think I'm kind of like with you on this. But I'm not putting his feet in my mouth.

You know what I mean? It's that. I hope you're not. Yeah. I cannot think of truly, genuinely, like deeply loving anyone as much as I love my sister. Yeah. Like I love her so much. She's the one thing I love most on this planet.

Yeah. Wow. And like I'm curious to see when the time comes, if I'm when I'm ready to have kids, like how it will feel different or similar to that. or similar to that because like my heart feels so full when I think about her or like in a way that's like oh she is the person I trust the most I respect the most I want to be kindest to like all the things you want to kind of feel for your own child right I'm like so I do wonder what kind how different the love I'll feel for my child is compared to the ultimate kind of love I've felt thus far in my life that's interesting yeah do you have what do you do you have a prediction

for that because you have a lot of sisters um it's got to be different it is different it's different I mean I like I really think that I don't have a name for it but whatever I feel for my baby is like different than anything I've yeah you know I love my sisters um but I don't have a word for what I feel for my baby yeah it's like a totally different feeling like love is in there yeah but something else I need her like I need her yeah i mean i need her so it's yeah it's a different i don't know yeah well yeah it's so weird it's so weird because they you they came from you you are you carried like and if you carry a daughter it's like you're carrying your daughter and your potential grandchildren.

I know. At the same time, because they have all of their eggs. Yeah. And it's just like, so you're like, what the fuck? So you're like, you go like, oh my God, I'm like, I'm holding everything. But I also feel invisible. What the fuck is going on? It's all everything at the same time.

It's also crazy how like their bones are your bones. They took your calcium. No, I know. When you think about it, what are the raw materials that I made this baby out of? I have no idea. If let's suppose I were to have a boy, I literally would be growing his balls and dick.

He didn't grow that himself yeah i grew your balls for you yeah it's really mind-blowing and i feel like it's something that you don't like even my whole pregnancy i didn't think about it and then afterwards i was like wait a second what are you made out of yeah where did you come from raw materials are all you. What did I used to have that's gone and is now a person? Literally the dad is just DNA and blueprint, right? But the raw materials are literally all you. Does this mean you'll feel guilty if your son has a very, very tiny penis? No, the blueprint would have come from dad.

I didn't say how long or how short. Yeah. Like I didn't come with a code. All the things I don't like, I blame on Andy. Yeah, of course. If she has an allergy that I find, you know, I'm a little judgmental of, I'm like, it's yours. You know how they say you take a fragment of dad's DNA into your body and sometimes express it genetically. Like, is there anything about Dave's like being or your partner's being where you're like, oh, like someone that all of a sudden have curly hair and they're like, where is

this coming from? And it actually comes from like fragments of the dad's DNA. Is there anything about like your immune systems that that's better or anything different? I don't know about that, but I felt a personality shift during pregnancy where I felt like I was more of a loving person. Like, it just, like, manifested as, like, how I felt and treated people. And I think that's, like, Dave and Ace and not me. I think they did that to me. Do you have any of Andy in you?

I hope not. Oh, my God. We have to wrap it up we're out of time but rosewood thank you so much for being here of course where can people get tickets to come see you um rosewoodbaker.com okay i'm on tour for the rest of the summer so hit us with some cities where are you going to be coming up? San Francisco next weekend. Um, after that Vermont, Burlington, Vermont. Um, I got some cities in the Midwest. I don't, is there, I think my tour dates are, Oh, there's my baby. Um, Oh yeah. Thank you so much. Burlington, Los Angeles. I already did Toronto, Houston, Nashville, Washington, DC, Atlanta, San Diego, Madison, Wisconsin, and Chicago. I did Honolulu. Oh my god. I did Honolulu. Oh damn it. That's why you were there.

I know. Where are you playing in Chicago? Zany's. Oh my god, fun. You guys, go see Rosebud. Thank you for being here. We love you. We'll see you next time. This was so fun. Next week with a brand new episode. Yay. next week with a brand new episode yay