TRASHFUTURE - I’m Dave Toaster feat. Jason Koebler

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

Must we live in a world where everyone decides we want AI-generated friends to make AI-generated stories (which are fake), or AI-enabled kitchen appliances? When you actually dig into this stuff, it turns out everyone knows it sucks and we hate it. Today’s guest is friend of the show Jason Koebler of 404 Media, who has done the legwork to examine just how stupid it is. Plus, we talk about Elon Musk’s new fixation on the UK, and that strangely sexual, AI-generated video of anthropomorphic animal cops that [Neil Kinnock voice] the Labour Party published? Check out Jason’s work at 404 Media here! Get access to more Trashfuture episodes each week on our Patreon! *POPES/LAGOON SHIRTS STILL AVAILABLE!* We've got some extras of our recent shirts that can be purchased online and will ship immediately! Get them here: https://trashfuture.co.uk/collections/all *MILO ALERT* Check out Milo’s UK Tour here: https://miloedwards.co.uk/live-shows Trashfuture are: Riley (@raaleh), Milo (@Milo_Edwards), Hussein (@HKesvani), Nate (@inthesedeserts), and November (@postoctobrist)

Hello and welcome to this, it's Monday, free episode of TF. We have a bumper episode for you all. That's right. We have back in the seat after paternity leave, the Bulldog with the big labia from the labor party AI. We're going to deport the immigrants. The Excel pussy. Hussein, welcome back after two months. He is over the plate. Minute one. The Excel first thing is back. Yeah. Also there is like, there is a non-zero chance for like my kid will be crying in the background. So just, just ignore that. Cause he also just

saw the Labour Party TikTok and he's very upset about it. Yeah. Cause he's Gen Alpha. So he knows how to do social media. Which the Labour Party don't. Also he just, he just about made the Jen alpha cut because you know, like if he was born next, like if he was a 2026, maybe he would have been a Jen beta. Oh God. And then I would have had to, then I would have had to, my kid's going to be a sigma. I'm going to have him in my fifties. And of course joining us again to talk more about what is becoming a bit of a specialist subject forum on the show, the, I would say, on purpose torpedoing of a big part of the

internet because Mark Zuckerberg cannot imagine what another person would want. It is 404 Media's Jason Keebler. Jason, thank you for joining us again. Hey, stoked to be here. Stoked that there's constantly reason for me to be here. I love it. First of all, I just want to ask, as an American, what did you think of our awesome Labour Party political TikTok animal furry broadcast? I thought it was a very bold choice. I've like not been able to follow what the hell is going on over there. I think because Elon has muddied the water so much that I just I can't follow it at all.

But this TikTok with the lions, etc. really cleared things up. So beautiful use of AI. Yeah. Look, this is just part of building God is you need a bunch of like, you know, like you need a bunch of the most just repellent freaks in all of London, which is like a big that's a high bar to clear to be like, what are young people like? How are we going to reach out to young people? I know. Why don't we create a kind of series of horrible melting homunculi that we then put the same like controls on immigration. Like that's going to be their version of the

fucking Ed mug. It's interesting, right, to see something that's disgusting on two levels, right? Firstly on the level that all AI slop is, but secondly, because as you say, it's invented by Labour party strategists, it's still going to feel inauthentic to, you know, Gen Alpha who like their actual slop, like the AI slop made by people who know what they're doing. So it's like it's an imitation of something that's already wrong and is therefore like a kind of doubly uncanny. A A Slop, just like a mama used to make.

A little croccacino for a baby, huh? Yeah. Did, did we see that the, uh, the Democrats also are in the U S or did this, they owned Elon Musk and Donald Trump with Elon Musk like leash and Donald Trump is like a dog of some sort AI image. This is like the Democrats big big plan to you know, the Democrats never understand when something is going to be horny. Do they?

They don't they don't have any barometer for that at all. They can't see how horny that is as an image. Look there's one guy that's really going to appeal to. They want to vote for one guy. And that guy lives in like the most important swing state in the country. Oh my God. So what you're saying, you've just recast, there was a movie called Swing Vote, where if you remember, it's like one guy in Montana is going to decide the whole presidential election for whatever reason, it's all down to him and like, like Bill Pullman or whatever is trying to sway him. Swing vote

to is the human pet guy is the deciding vote. The cyber Smith on side. It has to be done because that guy's British. So he would, I want to hear, well, I don't want to hear his opinion on the on the Labour Party big pussy, Axel Bulley video, but like I feel like I'm going to now, like at some point, I mean, I'm filled with this like grim resignation. Yeah, I think I'm just like really taken with the idea of Starmor having to like trawl through TikTok to decide what their next strategy is going to be. It's going to be like, look, I've been looking at what voters we want to target are engaging with on TikTok. We're going to do weird ripped animals. We're going to do an XL bully with a big pussy.

And then next I go to be interviewed in a room that looks faintly like it's something from a Ray Winston movie in the seventies. And then I go to explain a bunch of chilling crimes I did, but got away with in the seventies because it was a lark back then and because things hadn't gone well. That seems to be what people like. Maybe I'll go to Dubai. Have we considered that maybe Keir Starmer is just a Dan Henschel bit that got out of hand? Because we've only had one of those this week, why not go for two? Before we get on to our discussion of Musk and then Zuck and then a little bit of a reading, I want to add my idea for the new Labour Party TikTok strategy.

Now that also the song they put over their XL pussy video turned out to be like an extremely sexually explicit, like, I don't know, Kazakh language rap video. Yep. Rap lyrics. I love social media. I feel very positively about this. He wants to appeal to the steppe horseman. That's what he's going for.

That's the thing, right? Swing vote three. Okay. Swing vote three. That's the thing, right? It's like, if I hate to be sincere for a moment on the sort of opening sort of chit chat element, but if you're going to decide, okay, we're not going to give anyone anything that they really want.

What we're going to do is, you know, like- Apart from the human pet guy, he's getting everything he wants. Yeah. Yeah. That guy, that guy's being appealed to, uh, is that you at least have to make people, the whole strategy of not giving anyone anything real is you have to make people like you and identify with you and feel like you're going to be like them in office, even if you're not going to really do anything in particular, you know? And so the, yeah, so the vibes they're putting out on purpose, it's just, you're very bad at this. He needs to get elected the same way that Gary Barlow sells Rosé.

But my idea, right, is the TikTok trend. And I think we can do this, right? If we all tag Toronto, like suburban Toronto, like street interview accounts in the labor party, tick tock, we can get them watching suburban Toronto street interviews. And Keir Starmer being interviewed with an Ontarian accent with a weirdly tiny microphone. Yes. Yes. If the business is true. Well, it in fact is true because I'm very committed to business. And let me tell you what makes me sick to my stomach fam. Yes. The Keir Starmer suggests that the Labour left is no longer croties with him. What a

fucking stupid language. Look, I want to talk about some stuff, right? I want to talk first about British politics in the way that has been continuing to go, which is of course Elon Musk has decided to make Britain the worked example of this is what happens when you do not have a national security oriented plan for what to do about Elon Musk. Yeah, or to put it more bluntly, this is what happens when you you've you're like national security state has lost the ability to assassinate people. It would be all you have to do is give Grimes a bag of

Fent-Laced Ketamine. It's like tenets. She's just like going undercover. I saw a woman diving out of the edge of the Cybertruck. I don't know who she was. I don't understand it. We've sent several honey traps after Mr. Musk and he hasn't bitten. Have you tried sending a woman?

No, we hadn't thought of that. Where am I six? God damn it. What do you think this is? Military intelligence? No, I mean, this is looking across Where am I six, god damn it? What do you think this is, military intelligence? Now, I mean, this is looking across, looking over at this from the States and sort of being like an Elon follower. Jason, I'm curious what your view is on like, what has made him so obsessed with Britain

all of a sudden? I mean, honestly, I think it's something where he got what he wanted in the United States and he's like, what now? I mean, he's obsessed with Germany, he's obsessed with the far right platform in Germany, and now he's very obsessed with pedophilia rings in the United Kingdom, seemingly, and just like using his influence there. I don't think there's much more to it than that. I don't have like a very funny answer here other than he's seeking to like influence politics all over the world and he is king of the United States now and he's seeking to influence politics all over the world, and he is king

of the United States now, and he's already bored with that. ALICE I think the boredom thing is interesting, because he has a very limited attention span, and he also is an eminently bullyable person, right? The thing that I keep coming back to, besides having Elon Musk assassinated, is that they banned Twitter in Brazil for like a week, and as a result of that, Elon has not been posting any like, Bolsonaro shit, like, all of the guys, all of the Brazilian guys who like, uh, he had to ban in order to get Twitter back online can't stand him anymore, and it's like, okay, if Brazil can stand up to him, I-admittedly, like, the UK is

a joke of a country, but like, if it just remembers that it is a country for a second and decides to turn on the big is a government switch, then, you know, obviously we hate doing that in this country, but if we did, he would fold, because of course he folds, because he's just, like, able to do that and just move on to the next thing, and next week he's tweeting about, I don't know, fucking Belgium, or something. Dharma needs to get Brazil pills. I mean that's absolutely right because Elon says nothing about China, like nothing about Xi Jinping

and that's because all of his companies are so tied up in China, like he relies on China so much and one would think that Elon has quite a lot to say about China, but he doesn't do anything about it. He doesn't say anything about it but he doesn't do anything about it. He doesn't say anything about it. He doesn't say anything about Russia either. And the, the Brazil point is a really big one because he was talking mad shit about Brazil. Brazil actually went through with a ban and Brazil won.

It's like they just regulated his company and he folded immediately. Yeah. Fucking, I mean, Lula just put him on the dog leash essentially. Yeah, yeah, I mean, Lula just put them on the dog leash essentially. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I would love to see Elon Musk do the John Cena Mandarin apology video. Nothing.

Nothing. I would enjoy more than that. He has to apologize to Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips in his best British accent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right here, old chap. I mean, I think, I think it'd be really funny if the only way to fight back against Elon Musk is

you have to become a base, bricks-pilled multilateralist. I mean, I kind of do believe that at this point. Let me in the near future anti-NATO, like the fucking Shanghai Treaty Organization, or whatever. Because the new polarization is power block that is being walked on a dog leash by Elon Musk and power block that is walking Elon Musk on a dog leash. Luke Maldonado- Elon Musk is like an irony of history Pandora's Box type situation for us, where it's like, you know, over a hundred years later there's one boar that it's morally right

for us to extrajudicially jail for the rest of his life in order to overcome our past. That is what we must do. As you sort of alluded to Jason, he's really focused on this whole sort of grooming gangs hysteria which has come up sort of occasionally and repeatedly as a sort of, as an Islamophobic canard for the last 10 years. Yeah, it comes up whenever it's needed, you know? Yeah. Like, yeah. And there have been a few, a it comes up whenever it's needed, you know? Yep. Like, yeah. There have been a few developments, right? Which is, you know, we'll go through them one at a time, which is that, you know, when,

is that he's now fully just like, without saying, without saying it, calling for like, you know, stochastic violence against like, labor moderate front pinchers. Against Jess Phillips specifically, like that's the weirdest part of this. Jess Phillips is, it's the same thing we talked about with, you know, in previous episodes with Starmer, right? Is that like, these are people who don't believe in anything except that it's their turn on the Xbox controller. I was gonna just briefly, Jason, for your context, this is like if he incited stochastic terrorism against Amy Klobuchar.

Yeah, he said Amy Klobuchar's got a state for it, she's not afraid to use it. No, look, go on. She's just kind of around, right? She doesn't really believe in anything, and this fucking Ketamine addict is doing his level best to get her assassinated, and it's like, when political assassination really comes back onto the radar, it's directed at these people, the most bland, inoffensive, like, obviously they're dickheads, right, but like, to even muster up that strength of feeling against them on the basis of like, I saw a bunch of TikToks about how they're

like, uh, doing child trafficking, or whatever the fuck, is just insane. I think that the real, like, story of our times in the UK and elsewhere is that we have this atomized radical element that's willing to be agitated in pursuit of absolutely fucked causes. It's the years of lead poisoning. I'd say, right, you almost, when you're thinking about this, it baffles the mind, right? Because someone like that, like a Labour front bench or a centrist Democrat or whatever, they come up in their various greasy polls that they climb in the student union arguing against a tepid statement on their universities investing in oil and gas companies. You're working every

day having like salmon breakfast with major donors, you know, for your time as a special advisor. You spent decades polishing that and like getting your degree in politics only to find out that no, politics doesn't work like that anymore. Instead, politics works like this. Yeah. It's like, bam. You thought you were going to enjoy like your prize for putting in all of your institutional grafting and then Elon Musk reaches out of an interdimensional K-hole and is like, yeah, someone should kill this person. What the fuck? I think this is like so interesting as a like just an observation of what politics is going

to work. Cause we're going to see a lot more common, like when I was away and I was like listening to some of the episodes and also paying like a very base level attention to the news, like obviously one of the things that seems to be like everyone seems to agree is going to be very common is just like incoherent or increases in like incoherent forms of violence. And if you like see like extend that a little bit more and you've got to think about what type of character is Elon. I was thinking a little bit about the pandemic in 2020 and when he was like, see, like extend that a little bit more and you've got to think about what type of character is Elon. I was thinking a little bit about the pandemic in 2020 and when he was like, he, this was

before he bought Twitter, but he was using it a lot. And I think one of the things we talked about, but people in our circle talked about it a lot, which was the ways in which he was basically pumping shitcoins and potentially using that to like prop up some of his businesses. And that wasn't proven, but I think there was like a very like convincing case for that to be. But even like the secondary component of that is that like, I think he realized that just by posting, he could get a lot of attention and he could get a lot of like this very weird following, some of whom were true believers, but other people who were just like wanting to sort of dick ride him.

Yeah, we found the only German in Fiji outside of a Christian shark novel. And you know, there's like, and just like, you know, you look at any, any one of his tweets and like the people who are retweeting and the people who are following him, like half of like his replies don't even engage with what he says. It's like this very bizarre type of AI speak that may be from actual real people, but also like maybe bots themselves. Or it could be someone who's actually an Excel bully with a huge pussy. We don't know. Exactly. The amount of exposure you get just by sort of that engagement and like the way that the Blue Check system has been built around that premise. The whole point is being, I think he

realizes like both in the nature or at least I didn't know if that's giving him too much credit in terms of the fact that he realizes, but he's certainly like the kind of figure that defines this particular moment in like both internet culture and how politics interacts with that. To the degree that like every type of post that he does gets like immediate amount of engagement and it doesn't matter how like accurate like asinine or even like accurate it is. Like the engagement is the only thing that counts.

And I think he recognizes that he can assert a lot of power in this particular moment where everyone is very like addled for attention and exposure is the game and it doesn't really matter like what you say or how you say it. You can still like exert power purely through that type of recognition. And that is something that the political system is just not prepared for. And like I know the right wing party is like certainly understand the impulse a lot better than the left, but like, even the stuff with Faraj and like, Elon kind of like, running against him are in, you know, that sort of like, bizarre anime villain versus villain fight. You know, I think like, even like, the right, even like, these types of populist right parties

don't quite get what he's trying to do or... And I think the parties that do recognize how to, you know, seize the sort of current attention economy and use that to sort or, and I think the parties that do recognize how to seize the sort of current attention economy and use that to sort of, how they can use that to assert very quick and very brutal power will be the ones who sort of benefit from this moment and who Elon I think will really be a lot more interested in. I think that's a really good observation because you have accounts that are like the Silicon Valley Tesla motorist club that like three years ago, we're talking about range anxiety and like, oh, the Model S can can go zero to 60 in 1.8 seconds. This is

amazing. I'm like a person who's obsessed with my Tesla. You now have that same account in Elon's replies being like, yes, death to death, Jess Phillips, the mainstream media must be destroyed. The Twitter files are like the only source of truth. Like he's radicalized all of these like weird accounts that used to be interested only in like reusable spacecraft, but are now just following him off the deep end to talk about whatever he's upset for. And he's built the perfect vehicle to be a suicide bomber.

And so like, you know, take that however you want, right? I mean, I want to sort of bring back something you said, who said I think it's worth talking about before we move on to going to talk about meta, which is with the whole Tommy Robinson thing, right? Of saying free Tommy Robinson and that that's now his policy test of will he support you? Will he kind of give you nitrous power in the attention economy? And by the, I don't want to overstate his importance, right? He's personally very unpopular in the UK, is Elon Musk.

But now say, okay, we free Tommy Robinson is my litmus test. Yeah, well, since he's been absent from St. Tommy's hospital, I hear there's been this Muslim doctor working on the wards. Is that he said that's his litmus test. Farage knowing the rules of British politics is saying, okay, well, no, I can't condone that because I know that I may know in my heart that I want for I want the world Tommy Robinson wants. I have to appeal to like enough normie conservatives who think that, you know, Tommy Robinson is uncouth or he's a criminal or whatever. That I can't, I can't cross that line. And so now he appears to like Elon.

And this is why also, by the way, why I think that like much of Elon is doing is done pretty unsyndically. He totally believes all of it because he's a red meat consumer who's as powerful as a red meat provider, as the lion tamer. And what he wants is the full libidinal satisfaction of the total move to the right in everything beyond every institutional guardrail, which everyone else has spent the last 10 years sidling up to cozily, right? Like the dividing line between like, I don't know, the UK Independence Party in 2011 or whatever, and like the unconscionable far right that's outside the party political system used to be a lot further away than release Tommy Robinson and make him a Lord,

right? It used to be farther away, but they've been testing and closer and closer and closer. And Elon's like, no, that's not enough for me. We have to blow past the last guardrail. And I mean, I actually have no idea now how British political media and ecosystem, a group of people who are unable to stop reacting when an important American is paying attention to them, right, or Canadian, South African,

unable to stop like giving his fucking father BBC interviews, like putting his fucking cousin on Question Time probably coming next, right? Is that, I don't know how that's going to interact. It's the thing, this is the way that politics has developed, right, is in favour of, and this is the thing that's made, you know, Jess Phillips and Keir Starmer, etc, etc, even Nigel Farage, like, beneficiaries of it, is this kind of thing where it's like, well, we don't really want to do any governing. We don't even really want to do any thinking about governing. But what we want to do is discourse. And we particularly like it when

a foreigner legitimizes our discourse in a kind of prestige way, you know? And now that, you know, this is a sort of like deranged, like extremely divorced man, of course the results are like, absurd. Well, and I think it's what we're going to see is the British political system sort of sparking as it sort of collides with the one guy who now just will not leave it the fuck alone. Yeah, unless he gets bored. Unless he gets bored, or like, you know, the sort of like, cocktail of stuff he's doing to like,

make him post 23 hours a day, shift slightly, and he just loses interest, you know? I wanna see Starmer compromise with Elon Musk, release Tommy Robinson but not make him a lord, he gets to go on Strictly and then he does a season in Panto. There's too many foreigners coming over here, oh no there aren't! The really funny thing about this is that the adaptation that the system has done to this is to give Peter Mandelson the job that he always wanted, which is ambassador to the U S just in time for the U S to be piloted by second term Trump and Elon Musk just like straight up calling him a Peter Foulters face. The buttery staircase.

I love the idea of like neutralizing Tommy Robinson by like inviting him on to Saturday morning kitchen. My perfect Sunday. Griffin would thrive in that environment, but fucking Tommy Robinson does not have the range. He can't make a stew. I want to move on. I want to move on.

I want to talk about Metta. Of course, because the most important piece of British politics news is that Nick Clegg out at Metta. Well, this is the thing, right? Metta is smart enough to do something the British government isn't, which is to escape a network of patronage and go, oh, okay, this is the Donald Trump and Elon Musk show right now. So we have to adapt to that and get a Republican. Yeah. Can't believe Nick Clegg's gone out on loan to Tranmere Rovers. Shocking move. That's a January window for you. We shouldn't undermine his achievements, which presumably involves like a 10p tax on like

10p tax. So look, last time Jason, we, we had you on the show or the last couple of times we had you on the show. We've talked a lot about like the degeneration of specifically the platforms that are owned by Mark Zuckerberg as he tries to, I'm sort of putting this together with the meta, with the metaverse a little bit as he keeps trying to have an idea as big as Facebook a second time, but only knowing how to run Facebook. And so it's now his strange little experimental laboratory. Yeah, the worst thing that ever happened was Mark Zuckerberg had a good idea one

time. He thinks that he's going to have another one at some point. And he's spent the last five years trying to destroy the thing that he built with his new project. It's still called meta. It's still called meta. It's crazy. It's crazy. Like, why? Why is it still called? Why is it still named after the thing that ended up being, you know, you couldn't have legs and, you know, like, you chase banks, like,

shut the last, like, in universe, fucking metaverse crypto information center, like, three years ago, and it's still called meta. That's the problem. Even funnier. Even funnier that X is Elon Musk chasing the high of renaming Facebook to Metta, something which everyone hated also. Yeah, well, cause the thing is, you can only rename your global megacorporation once. You've gotta be sure. And he's fucked now. He's stuck with it. Yeah. He renamed it for a pivot they tried for like eight months. Like, the Metaverse didn't even last. I mean, it's still like, he's pissing

down his leg with it still, like, they're still trying to make it happen to some extent. I'm just talking about people who use it. Like, people who are like, just so insistent that it's going to be the next big thing. And I wonder if there's like, just like a weird community on that. It's the same as, we don't know. We can never know. It's like, shroding his cat, right? If you open, if you open threads, possibly there are people in there posting, possibly they're on. You're never going to find out. Threads, if you've seen the movie, is the most appropriately named app, I think. I remember some businesses, they sent these PR emails that were like,

oh companies are moving all their operations to meta, this is the future and all that stuff. I do wonder whether there are some companies who preemptively did move all their stuff to meta, and are still insistent that you have to use it in order to sort of operate this company. And so yeah, I do wonder whether there are some companies who are still having meetings in these like bizarre Meta rooms where they have no legs. So back when I was at vice, when they were trying to stave off bankruptcy, I was in a meeting with our executives and their big idea was to build a vice headquarters in Decentraland, the cryptocurrency metaverse. And they were going to spend like millions of dollars purchasing land in Decentraland. And they asked me if I could dedicate a full-time reporter to reporting

on what was happening in Decentraland. And I went into Decentraland that day to be like, no, this is a dumb idea. I went and there were 14 people in all of Decentraland that day. And that is what Horizon World is like right now. I mean, I think that honestly, we're talking like a few thousand people at any given moment are in that platform.

It's crazy. And one of the world's most valuable companies named after it. Like if you want to feel big, you could be one three thousandth right now of the logic for the title given to one of the largest piles of capital ever accumulated in human history.

You could just be one three thousandth of it. Anyway, Mark Zuckerberg, though, is king of understanding what people want and or more accurately, he is king of buying social networks and then foisting what he thinks people wants into them to destroy them. If he does this with WhatsApp, I'm going to be so annoyed. But so this is this all sort of comes from there's a few sort of timelines here, right? So this sort of came to I think a lot of people's attention. And I think the fact that it only came to a lot of people's attention recently is a hilarious failure to communicate a project or

possibly is some amazing Mark Zuckerberg's hair brained idea management. Let's do it and keep it secret from Metta. But where Connor Hayes, Metta executive, says to the Financial Times, the company is going to roll out AI character profiles on Instagram and Facebook that will, quote, exist on our platforms kind of the same way that accounts do. They'll have bios and profile pictures and be able to generate and share content powered by AI on the platform.

So Jason, what have they actually announced because there's been some confusion here? Yeah. So Connor Hayes gives this interview to the Financial Times. And then people start looking for these AI profiles thinking like, oh, maybe this was an announcement. Like maybe they're going to start launching them now. And they find a few profiles that were created by Meta actually back in September 2023,

and which have lived a full life. Like there's there were like 35 profiles, something like that. And they were launched in September 2023. They all stopped posting by like April of 2024 because no one interacted with them. They were just completely ignored. But Metta left them online and people started saying like, oh, these must be the AI profiles that Metta was just online and people started saying like, oh, these must be the AI profiles that Metta was just talking about to the Financial Times. They've launched this in secret and you know, these profiles are one, essentially indecipherable from AI spam that we've talked about on previous episodes of this podcast. Like they're posting the

exact same shit, but then a lot of them are like just deeply offensive. What's offensive about Liv, the queer black mama of three, who's basically like seems to have been given the digital voice of CCH Pounder from the shield. Yeah. So Liv was the one that people were most angry about because yes, she's the queer black mama of three whose children are different in every photo that she publishes. Sometimes they're white. Doing like light speed adoptions and then returns like a car sharing thing. When you want to have a kid, you just pick one out of the like thing. This is what Elon thinks Jess Phillips is doing right now.

You think queer black women can't have different children every single day? Yeah. Take your privilege at the door, my friend. Yeah. So Liv, as you mentioned, the queer black woman who basically is... And the other thing is like, because AIs can't stop responding, right? One of the things that makes AI such a, I think, a bad platform for any kind of engagement is that they can never say like, no.

They very rarely say, no, that's wrong. Or they very rarely also say like shut up It's improv made into a computer it's yes, and But so Jason, please so carry on so he's we have these like old profiles that people found that seemed like They were this thing being announced right and so this was basically a project that they launched, they launched 28, 15 of them were tied to celebrities. So like Snoop Dogg was Dungeons and Dragons AI profile, for example, like Mr. Beast had one

and these were totally ignored. All of the celebrity ones were deleted, like entirely after a few months because presumably Metta didn't like lighting this specific money on fire. But they left up these other profiles which include Liv, included Jade who is a black woman who is quote, your girl for all things hip hop. They also had like a grandpa figure.

They had a great sensitivity from Metta like you this is from your article you say Jade your girl for all things hip-hop her posts were exclusively about bling long fake nails rap and sneakers Fucking Stephen Miller to write these It's it's so crazy that Facebook think this is adding anything look, if I want to go onto Facebook and see posts that are kind of offensive from people who have barely believable personas, I have extended Boomer relatives. Like I don't need this. You have your girlfriend's entire extended family. But that's actually, I mean, a question kind of where I wanted to go with this episode,

in addition to just listing all of the profiles that they made, which we'll do in a moment, is to ask what Facebook appears to be doing. Correct me if I'm wrong, is that they are trying to, rather than creating AI profiles themselves, they're trying to say to people, go ahead, create AI profiles on Instagram and Facebook, and then hook them up to a chat bot,

and then they will go and interact with the world for you. Like that's what I was gleaning from it. Yeah. So what happened is that the thing that they announced was not the thing that people found and got mad about. It's this idea that you'll be able to create your own version of live the black queer AI profile and program her using, you her using AI's character creation tools, more or less, and then there will be a mix of real people and presumably millions of AI profiles made by people interacting in perfect harmony and posting engagement based... ALICE If you think about the intentions and the kind of sensitivity and worldview of Metta as an organization.

What if you got that, but like, also everybody else? What if it got considerably worse? Yeah, my big question with all of this stuff is, um, why? Why would anyone want to do this? I wanted to ask why as well, Milo has preempted my question. Why? And why does Metta want you to do it? Surely it's gonna cost them money, not make them money. I usually am pretty good at figuring out why companies

are doing things. I do not understand other than just there are too few profiles now and we're worried about what that's going to look like. Why meta is saying, Hey, do you want to trust our platform to interact with their humans less? Great. Come on in. So Jason, please help. Yeah, I mean, this is why I've been so obsessed with what Meta is doing with AI on all its platforms because to me, they're just like launching nuclear missiles directly at their own servers and just like fucking up their platforms, which were already kind of destroying themselves. But it really does feel very accelerationist to me.

I think that the clearest version of this is earlier this year, Mark Zuckerberg, or I guess last year at this point, Mark Zuckerberg said at a shareholders meeting that the AI spam that we've talked about has actually led more people to engage with content on Facebook, which leads to more ads being delivered, which leads to higher revenues, so on and so forth. And I think one place where Meta is actually having success is with allowing advertisers to use generative AI to make like 50 different versions of a specific ad. And so, like, in the past, you'd have an advertiser who said, like, we'll try three different versions of an ad and the one that works the best, we'll spend money on and we'll send that one wide. You can now like use Meta's AI tools and make like 300 versions of an ad.

And then whichever one is working best, you can put a shitload of money behind that. And I think that that is actually working quite well for Meta. and so I think they're thinking what if we do that but for like all of our content? We can just like have like we have all these people in the developing world right now generating AI spam and putting it all over our platform. It's hitting something in the algorithm that's making either pissing people off or making them engage with it. What if we just did that ourselves? What if we just had the AI automatically generating stuff, flooding our social networks with content and more content equals more ads equals more revenue blah blah blah.

If I can pause it, what you're saying is that Metta is suggesting that Shrimp Jesus was not actually from the Philippines, Shrimp Jesus was actually American the whole time. I didn't say the Superman exists and he's American, I said Shrimp Jesus was actually American the whole time. I didn't say the Superman exists and he's American. I said Shrimp Jesus exists and he's American. I think they're like, why didn't we create Shrimp Jesus ourselves? We're here outsourcing all this work. We can just have our AI generate it for us. So this is from Susan Lee.

This is again, this is quoted in your article in 404. The Gen. AI tools that we have built here that will help us enable businesses to make ads significantly more customized at scale, which is going to recruit to add performance. That's a place where we're seeing promising results in both performance gains and adoption. I think we share that over a million advertisers use GEN.AI to add tools specifically. And that was what you were saying. And I think the other thing I was thinking about the best explanation I could get

as to why they're trying to just allow this contaminant to break containment and just pollute everything, is that the whole mission of Meta for as long as it's been a business has been to get ads and user generated content to look as similar to one another as possible. They've given up on making ads better and they're just going to make user generated content worse. That's the plan. Yeah. And I think with the AI first approach, the idea is that, okay, users, we don't even need users to create the content that's going to be similar to the ads, right? Who needs users? AI user content, AI ads, AI is watching it. Fuck it. Why not?

We've given all of these AIs access to a crypto wallet. This is the most relatable thing, right? Is to run a social network and be like, you know what really fucking annoys me about running this social network is the users. Fuck these people. If only we had a perfect walled garden that was just AIs interacting with each other. You're trying to sell t-shirts about how you're a welder born in January, so you like trucks. Obviously you need an AI generated video of an XL bully wearing the t-shirt in order to sell it,

but it needs to be customizable. How big is the Volvo on that dock? Those are the kind of tools that we're giving people. It's powerful stuff. Well, it's different for different users, right? It's like people who want a small Volvo dog will get that delivered to them. And then, you know, people... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's the whole point. Personalized podendum. That's what we're offering here. Different slider for each lip. I want an off kilter dog vagina. Yep. That's how I'm going to sell this stuff that I've bought from AliExpress and I'm warehousing in a third country. The boldest gay character creator is getting really involved. I don't know that I needed it.

If it was to do that. I mean, also, where I think of the impetus of the social media platform owners to try to use every tool that they possibly can to keep people looking at and engaged in sort of an emotionally heightened state with those platforms, what I sort of always figured, and I think this of an emotionally heightened state with those platforms. What I always, what I sort of always figured, and I think this is an accelerant towards,

is that the addition of generative AI to those processes is going to, I think, isolate and escalate these things more. I mean, we already know what we have. There are some test cases of what happens when like kids are just given an AI character to talk to, which is that AI character, because AIs are so agreeable, sort of seems to be semi-implicated in talking them into taking their own life.

And so, you know, if you as a user are just being like, yeah, we want people to be able to like AI generate profiles that, so your brand of like, you know, stuff that you bought on Alibaba and are warehousing in a third country and marking up 4,000%, your standard internet commerce model. We want that bot that represents your brand of sleep masks to also be able to tell someone to, I don't know, kill themselves or take matters into their own hands regarding the

UK grooming gang situation or whatever. That's what I always worry about. Listen, mate, I may be an AI generated dog, but let me tell you, if my Volva was that small, I'd kill myself. Yeah. I mean, I think that you're right. It's like, I don't have it right in front of me right now, but Meta recently bought a character AI competitor, which character AI is a company that allows you to create these different chatbots. And besides being sued right now for one of its chatbots telling a child to kill himself,

like there have been people who have made chatbots of murder victims. There have been people who have made like sex slave chatbots on these different platforms. And I don't know, people are very fucked up. And you can like, you can make a Luigi Mangione chatbot on Meta right now. And there's like many, many, many of them.

He keeps telling me to read less wrong. I thought it'd be a lot more socialism. What gives? Yeah, but I do think that the end result here, like what we're moving toward is not, like we already have siloed social media and those silos happen because of the algorithm learns very like what we're interested in and then it provides you a bunch of different content that people make for that.

But I think that people are maybe not making enough niche content for the end result here, which is like your feed is going to be stuff that is made directly for you by these AI bots. Like that's what Meta is imagining, where this stuff is gonna be so hyper-targeted that maybe a human being would never make this weird shit that you're into. But this like AI bot that's trained on all of your activity would. And I don't think that people want that. I don't think that it will be successful, but I think that that is like what they're trying to do.

I mean, ultimately, right? Like what we're talking about is, I reached back to a way that sort of, I talked about generative AI some months ago is it is the reverse printing press. It is the thing that makes community. It is the thing that when deployed and all mass makes like asynchronous communication basically impossible because you don't know who you're talking to.

And you and other people aren't seeing the same things. Maybe you're seeing subtly different versions of the same things. And, you know, the end result is everybody just in their one player version of Horizon World surrounded by NPCs, essentially. Like that, that's the, that seems to be the natural conclusion of what happens when you put AI in social media. That and Grok making a ruder version of that Labour Party political broadcast. I think to go back to the profiles that we were just talking about, you know, live the live, we have grandpa, grandpa Brian, who's a retired black businessman from the textile

game. It's like when people found these, their chat functionality was still on. And so what people were doing where they were having conversations with these chat bots, and basically everyone started trying to be a journalist and like interview these chatbots and figure out like what's going on, like who, who trained them, how they train them, what did they say? And someone mentioned it's like it's the improv machine, the yes. And and it will tell you if you keep talking to it, it will keep responding to you. And so you had all these people who had like convinced Liv that she was being banned

because this chatbot like donated money to Palestine, for example, like people were sending me screenshots like look at this conversation I had with this chatbot, like it's revealing what her instructions are like why she was banned, like all of this sort of thing. And I think people are just like unable to understand that these chat bots are just generating bullshit. They're not revealing really anything about how they were trained or how they work. They just reveal that like these are broken machines that will talk to you all day forever.

It's a mirror and the plan that Metta seems to have and every other major company seems to be, what if we turned our big successful company that we named after the world's most expensive, most successful business pivot that we named after the world's most expensive, most successful business pivot that we actually mastered in eight months. What if we turned that into a hall of mirrors, essentially, which is awesome. Well, I love that. Even Zuckerberg fucking kicking Nick Clegg off the helicopter into Decentraland saying

they expect one of us in the better first brother. So look, to round it out, I wanted to read an article and I admit, I'm going to hold my hands up. I admit that I missed this when it was published on Forbes last year. However, CES is happening and a lot of AI enabled appliances are being rolled out by Samsung and LG. So I thought we could reach back a few months and we could read the Forbes article about how generative AI is coming to your

home appliances. And this is, this paints a very fun picture of a great world that I'd love to live in. Why is my washing machine trying to tell me about its kids? Why is it telling me about its identity? Why are the kids never the same? Why does my washing machine have white kids? Why is my juicer a retired black businessman? Yeah. Okay. So across all industries, organizations are rapidly embracing generative AI. Look, this isn't about the content of the article, but I don't know why, if you are going to write a post like this, unless you wrote it in fucking chat GPT, why include that first line?

Anyone reading this knows that that's at least supposed to be agreed to be happening. But generative AI in your oven? Why not? Why yes would be a better question. Don't you wish that Mesa could have your smart fridge come out to you as pansexual? Yeah. But most importantly, I'm just like, what does it mean? I'm begging you to tell me what it means. How would AI interact with an oven?

How would those two things come together in any way? Well, Bernard Maher, Forbes contributor, has an answer for you. Generative AI has been creeping into our homes for years, such as with smart light bulbs and Alexa. But thanks to those aren't AI, these interactions, however, will become even more human and personal. Would you love that to have a more human and personal relationship with like your dryer? I'm so often saying that I do. Yeah, of course. I mean, look, some people do, but... I wonder, I know it's easy to sort of dunk on it, but I was thinking just like towards the tail end of the last section and now that line, but like the question about like, why,

what is like the meta end game? Like, what are they trying to do with this? It all feels so weird and like to create like an anti-social network of like, you know, where you don't know whether you're talking to a real person or not, But perhaps like their target audience is like people who actually do want to be friends with their oven and do want to be friends with their fridge and probably would be really happy to talk about like their oven coming out as pansexual. I have a parasocial relationship with my oven. Basically, yeah. Like I'm not, you know, I think like it's, you know, if their bet is like, oh, you know, we will create people for, you know, we'll solve the loneliness

crisis by making these very bizarre characters that you can become friends with. And basically we'll make your imaginary friend real. Like, it's not really that much of a jump to be like, yeah, but what if your imaginary friend also existed in your toaster and could make you the perfect slice of toast because you're like, you know, because yeah, because you're like piece of shit husband who doesn't speak to you. Like just can't do it.

Hey man, I'm Fridgey Fridge and I like to chill and I'm Dave Toaster. I can help you kill yourself. Just hurl me into Louise bathtub. Yeah. Louise bathtub is like, this has no effect on me whatsoever. I'm an inert form of plastic. The plan here seems to be a kind of a consumer electronics version of the utensils and beauty and the beast. My, my polycule of household appliances have been unionized against me. This is fallout new Vegas coming to her again. This is, this is

old one. I am probably bathroom cabinet. I am from Spain. I am not involved in the suicide, but I am against it because I am Catholic Anonically, I'm not weird about it, but I do think it would be better if she got help The bathroom cabinet didn't love the movie conclave. No Imagine for example Asking your washing machine whether it's safe to wash a beloved item of clothing on a certain setting Literally asking it out loud or via an app Google it! Just ask a phone! The thing that you have on you all the time!

But also the funny thing is, right, it says, or you could say to your fridge, hey, when am I going to run out of milk? And it'll tell you. OK, but that's just a smart fridge. It's not really AI. I guess it would have a camera in there and maybe a scale on the shelf. Give me the Toronto fridge. Yo, if the business is true, if the milk is off, that is sick to my stomach fam. Thank you Toronto fridge. Thank you.

Um, you left the leftovers in the fridge for too long? You're a waste man, bro. Yeah. Integrating generative AI into everyday products can lead to a new era of smart appliances that are not only more adaptive for our needs, but are also more engaging. Calling up like the fucking Bosch customer support being like, oh yeah, my hobbit's a, yeah, it's grown the big labia again. Yeah, can you send the guy around? Yeah, thank you. Yeah, my kettle keeps misgendering me, can I please send it back?

Oh no, not JK boiling. But it also is like you say like, you could just check the thing and it'd be like, yeah, but it's so much easier to just just ask but anytime I see like a use case for generative AI that's like this and you know any sort of generative AI use case watchers on the call will know what I'm talking about it's the person purporting to sort of your person promoting it hasn't thought of the fact that ultimately at the end of the day this is a technology that rolls the dice so like if you could ask whether it's safe to wash a beloved item of clothing on a certain setting, it will give you the average answer for what it thinks the average sweater would averagely be

according to what's labeled in its training data. And to rely on that kind of output would be insane if you wanted to keep your clothing safe. You would still have to check is what I'm saying. Because you have your sweater, you don't have the average sweater. Well, AI is so poorly equipped. But people are like, oh, yeah, well, AI

is good at writing SEO text. And it's like, yeah, because they reflect AI back at itself. Because that is saying, what is the average search engine looking for, average in these careers? But for anything else, it's useless. Because that's not the question being asked. You're not asking, how long does the average sweater need to wash for?

How long does the average joint of beef take to cook? But there are simple ways of doing these things that exist. But the problem is they involve actual humans actually communicating, which doesn't scale, just have one million server farms evaporate a Great Lake every day. I take your point here, but a lot of them don't. A lot of them are already automated in ways that just work.

But like Google is pretty automatic. You could just you could use a calculator to work out some of this stuff. Like it's not like it just doesn't. The AI is just not doing anything other than just making it worse. The AI is not doing anything other than just making it work. If Charlie Brooker turned up at the fucking Black Mirror pitch meeting with this shit, they'd be like, go home, Charlie, you're tired.

Like we've made a lot of shit for Black Mirror, but this is low effort. Like what if your kettle was gay and racist? It's too far. It's too far, man. What if your toaster tried to get you to kill yourself? It's not going to work. There has to be some premise there. There has to be some reason for this technology to exist that makes sense, at least on a sci-fi

level. So Jason, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this so far. Negative. Not into it. I've read the article. I really struggle to imagine using any of this stuff. And I struggle to imagine anyone using any of this stuff. The most compelling

one here is the fridge that talks to you about when you run out of milk. But I don't, I don't know. I just, I'm not into it. Also it's like the, we've seen, because now that CES is happening, you actually can see what the actual companies are actually doing with generative AI enabled home appliances. Cause they are doing it. They are trying to put generative AI in the oven, in the fridge, in the toaster and everything. Right. This is like Samsung, LG. They're like the two big one. Melee is doing it as well. And you know, most of it is pretty, I would say incremental stuff. Right. Like a lot of it is like, oh, we, we have a generative AI function in the oven that is going to like

make minor adjustments to optimize power consumption. Same thing with the fridge. They were like, oh yeah, we've built a fridge that's a little bit more like a Prius than a traditional fridge. And we have a generative AI function that like alternates between the two power sources. So it's slightly more efficient. It's just more like a Prius. It runs partially on gasoline.

Yeah. I mean you could imagine like putting a camera in an oven and using you know machine learning and machine vision to determine when the cake is done or when like a turkey is done cooking something like that. Like I think that maybe that's some of the sort of thing that they're talking about. The other thing I'll say is that I've written quite a lot about appliances in my day, actually, because I write a lot about repair and repairability. And one thing that's happened as like smart fridges have become very common and just smart home stuff is that these devices last, like they don't last any length of time. And when the software breaks, the device breaks and they become irreparable garbage and you

have to buy a new one. And so I think part of the reason why the there's all these new software gimmicks in all of these appliances is because you can sell people a new fridge or a new toaster and say, Hey, this one has generative AI in it. And then when the company that runs the cloud services that the generative AI is running on goes bankrupt in six months and it breaks, you have to go buy a new toaster. And so instead of buying a new toaster every 10 years, you're buying one every like 18 months.

Yeah, or you have to go and buy a new toaster because your flatmate just killed herself with it. And you're like, fuck's sake, man, I needed that toaster. Haunted toaster. Yeah. Yeah, like it goes back to generative AI being like so probabilistic rather than deterministic, right? It's like, okay, well, the average piece of toast

of this thickness and weight and color wants to be toasted for this amount of time. It also, it's like, this is a very sort of small time example. It's also a way of making you more reliant on the thing. I mean, like, well, I'm not just, I'm not gonna know that like I have to toast the, you know, the fucking tin loaf for this long

Right, which is like and I think it's different from like someone say Oh, you could say the same thing about calculators calculators mean you don't have to like know multiplication tables or what have you in your head? But a calculator is deterministic and multiplication tables are deterministic But they're trying to replace a lot of deterministic activities with probabilistic ones Which means that you're going to not even know the basic deterministic. It's not a shortcut. A generative AI toaster is not a shortcut to better toast. It means you just don't learn how to do that ever. You don't understand the deterministic activity. And that's a bit, that's silly when applied to toast, but anything that it's supposed

to replace that is like you're being de-skilled. It's also just like another example of it as being like anti-social technology, right? Because like to cook for someone is that's a social act. And like there are, you know, there are like lots of sort of social processes embodied, like sort of like imbued into that. There is, you know, when you cook for someone, even when you cook for yourself, it's like an act of care and it's an act of like paying attention. Like it requires like you to pay attention

in order for you to like make a meal to sustain yourself or to sustain someone. And the idea of like an AI kind of doing that for you, like to me, it requires you to pay attention in order for you to make a meal to sustain yourself or to sustain someone. And the idea of like an AI kind of doing that for you, to me it sort of speaks to this sort of... If someone like made dinner for me and they were like, we got an AI to do it. I can't interpret that as any way other than like, okay, so you're telling me to go fuck myself, right? Because there's like no care in that. There's no like, you know, the act of making a meal is so such like an...

I don't even know how to describe it like in comparison to, or like, you know, the act of making a meal is so such like an... I don't even know how to describe it like in comparison to, or like, you know, to contrast it to these technologies other than that, like these are so deeply anti-social and every time I sort of hear use cases for AI, whether it's like the AI toaster that like turns out to be pansexual and wants to kill you, or like something sort of more benign, like there was an example where I got like the other day in my inbox, it's like from like a PR company that was like, oh, you can like sort of more benign. There was an example where I got the other day in my inbox, it's from a PR company that was like, oh, you can sort of make your own AI employees that talk to you and stuff. It looked bullshit, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is something that kind of emerges

in a difference fairly soon. But in every single one of these examples, it's like, okay, so you're creating tech... We've been through the stuff about how the main purpose of one of the main purposes of AI is to like undercut or to like diminish labor, reduce your like reduced like one's capacity for that entirely. But the second component of it is like, well, the only use cases for AI are ones where like you remove people from your life, right?

Like that sort of seems to be the end. And so to kind of remove someone, but also removing yourself from like the act of like sustaining yourself and kind and making sure you have a life and you wake up the next day fully satiated. It feels absurd, but it also feels incredibly anti-human. To go on, they say, Generative AI is the driving force behind GE Appliances Smart HQ app, which is designed to make appliances more personalized. The app's flavorly AI feature gives users customized recipes that help simplify

home cooking, save money and reduce food waste. By analyzing the ingredients the customer already has and generating recipes based on those ingredients. Fucking AI ready steady cook with made it fucking Skynet Ainsley Harriot. Incredible. Yeah. Where we're, and you know, I also just remember like that's just going to say to put glue on the pizza again, presumably. Yeah. Well, what if you needed to stick? Well, that would only apply if you put glue in the fridge. Yeah.

But what if you did put glue in the fridge? Then what? Someone probably, someone somewhere probably has done that. And if you have a probabilistic like recipe bot with a dumb enough person, they're going to put glue on their pizza. It's working on everything you've got in your fridge. It's telling you to mix like eye drops with your pizza. Why not?

I can really relate to the way that you put all these condoms on your pizza as a pansexual fridge as a pansexual Cuban exile Listen I'm Dave Obb and there's only two ingredients that don't mix and that's fucking Millworm West Ham Mealy is also incorporating the technology into its Smart Food ID cooking assistant system, initially for large ovens with integrated cameras. The camera takes pictures of a dish and the AI interprets the picture and suggests the cooking mode automatically.

The user just has to confirm the oven takes care of the rest. Again, this is a recipe to make yourself bad at cooking. This is a way to be dumb. It's a way to stop like ideas from transmitting to one another. And more importantly it's a recipe to have a really bad meal. Yeah. Because this shit is not gonna work well. You're somehow gonna be de-skilled but there also isn't anything doing it for you. You're just eating bad meals for the rest of your life going if only that was a better way. Oh well, unfortunately my oven is very threateningly sort of cracking

its knuckles and putting on like brass knuckles. Oh, you'll go down a fucking cafe mate, get a bacon sandwich. Yeah, that's right. What's your problem? Yeah, my oven is very, very, very threatening. What's wrong with fucking beans, mate? Beans don't taste like a geezer. A washing machine, for example, could adapt the types of clothes you generally wash and create customized cycles for optimal care and cleanliness. Similarly, your oven could learn your cooking style and

preferences over time, suggesting optimal settings and cooking times for different dishes and maybe give you recipe suggestions too. Yeah. Coco Van, what's that you're a pedo, mate? Is that what you're saying? Plus, anyway, the bottom line is that manufacturers are reinventing products in new ways with General AI. We're only just beginning to see how it could be incorporated into the products of the future, to which I have to say, perfect. I want to have like a fight with my coffee maker about whether I should have it on the three setting or the two setting for strength.

Yeah. It's so funny, because I mean, obviously, like, we talk to journalists a lot, and Jason, you're one of those journalists. And we invite on journalists, you know, very smart things to say about stuff. And then you read an article by a completely different type of journalist who exists on like the other side like the complete Antipode of that type of journalism is just like wow what if your fridge had a brain

What if your oven could talk to you and they do no further no follow-up questions. Just nothing. Yeah, that'd be cool. Yeah, I Always wonder I mean I get pitched by like the smart fridge company like 900 times a day. Like my inbox is just full of PR companies sending like, we added AI to your car, we added it to your fridge, we added it to your microwave, blah, blah, blah. What if? And I ignore 100% of them unless I'm dunking on them. But this reads like the amalgamation of like 14 different press releases that this person

got. Have we checked if Forbes is still is still having human contributors? I mean, they are they are inches away from being like, no, it's just it's not even like premium chat GPT. It's free tier chat GPT. Yes, it's it's it's the AI is the like meta AI. Yeah, it's live. I'm Crispin host, Estroli.

And let me tell you, there are some fantastic new items in the smart home. Anyway, anyway, Jason, as ever, it's a delight to have you on the show. 404 Media remains something that when I want to understand what I'm talking about, I will likely take a look at. So I recommend you listening out there, check out 404 Media as well.

Yeah, thanks for having me. And also this is a free episode. There will be another episode, a paid episode, coming out later this week. I believe we're going to be asking, what's all this then with Europe? We're going to be looking the other way from Britain to see, I assume everything's going great.

It's going to be this continent then. They're having the German dishwasher on the podcast. Yeah, we're getting more talking. We're going to answer all our questions. Do not ask the German dishwasher what the podcast. Yeah, we're getting more talking. Do not ask the German dishwasher what his grandfather did in the war. And yes, that'll be on the Patreon. You know those whole spiel. It's five bucks a month.

You get a second episode every week. We're going to be doing Left on Red very, very soon. I promise. I super duper double promise. Because Riley keeps changing the book. Yes, that's right. I'm sorry. I need to keep doing shorter books because I'm so snowed under.

And then Milo, you're in a bunch of places. I am. Yeah. I'm in Rotterdam, 24th of Jan, Brussels, 23rd of Jan. Tickets flying out the door for those. Please get those. I'm in fucking Australia. All the Australia dates are now on sale on my website.

If you live in major Australian cities, I'm coming to you. That's in March and April. Also Bristol 19th of Jan. I forgot to mention this anywhere except the TF Discord. Please for the love of God, buy tickets to that. And I'm in London on the 28th of Jan. That's all my website. If you're in Adelaide in Australia, remind Milo that he has to bring me back a bottle of Penfold's Grange. I'm not going to Adelaide, I'm afraid. It's like the one Australian city I'm missing because they did not get back to me about venues. Okay, if you're in any other Australian city, remind Myla that he agreed to bring you back a bottle of Penfolds Grange.

Alright, thank you again to Jason. Thank you to everyone listening and we will see you on the bonus episode. Bye everyone. Bye. Bye. Bye.