True Crime with Kendall Rae - SNL & Simpsons Star Phil Hartman Killed by His Wife… Was Jealousy the Driving Reason?
Episode Date: July 4, 2023Phil Hartman was a successful comedian making his way up in his career when he met his wife Brynn. Over time, it started to seem that she was very jealous of his success, and wanted that fame for hers...elf. Some believe it was this which led her to killing her husband. Others think it was her medication and issues with addiction that brought her to doing what she did. Phil Hartman on SNL Birgen's Instagram Donate to NCMEC through my campaign! https://give.missingkids.org/campaign/kendall-rae/c438796 This episode is sponsored by: Smalls - promo code: KENDALLRAE Stitch Fix Check out Kendall's other podcasts: The Sesh & Mile Higher Follow Kendall! YouTube Twitter Instagram Facebook Mile Higher Zoo REQUESTS: General case suggestion form: https://bit.ly/32kwPly Form for people directly related/ close to the victim: https://bit.ly/3KqMZLj Discord: https://discord.com/invite/an4stY9BCN CONTACT: For Business Inquiries - kendall@INFAgency.com
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Hello everyone and welcome back. I'm so happy to have you here with me today to discuss yet another case.
And if you're new, then welcome. So today we are going to be talking about the life and the murder of Phil Hartman. Now Phil Hartman was a comedian who was famous through the 70s,
80s, 90s. He was an SNL star. I know a lot of my audience is on the younger side and I myself
did not know who Phil Hartman was until I started researching this case and became familiar with
his career and everything he did. And he seemed like a real light in the industry
who had a very successful career still ahead of him.
And what happened to him is extremely tragic.
We are gonna talk about how his life came to an end.
However, I wanted to really start this out
and for the majority of it, talk about his life
and what led up to that day.
So Phil Hartman's career is really one that's
so many comedians and actors look to for inspiration in the industry. He was someone who figured out
what his dream was and then stopped at nothing to make it come true. Even though his career piqued
before I was old enough to even know who he was. And he passed when I was about five.
His work is well documented.
And so I had a lot of material to kind of get familiar
with who he was and learn a lot about him.
And how many people he impacted in a positive way.
Phil Hartman was such a talented person.
And from everything that I've learned about him
while researching, he seemed to be also just a really good person. And from everything that I've learned about him while researching, he
seemed to be also just a really good person. I mean, he wasn't perfect by any means, but
it seemed like he always had the best intentions. And for those of you who aren't super familiar
with Phil, you'll probably recognize a lot of his work or at least the platforms that he
had success on, mainly SNL. Not only was he on SNL, he was also a co-writer
for the Peewee Herman show and even had his own character on The Simpsons. And these are
just a few of the things that he accomplished in his career. He was born on September 24,
1948 in Brandford, Ontario, to his parents' doors and Rupert, and was one of eight children
in his family. He first moved
to the United States when he was 10 years old and over the next few years they made their
way from Maine to Connecticut and then finally settled in the West Coast. And as a middle
child, Phil mentioned later on in his life that he always struggled to get the attention
in his family that he wanted and needed. And because he didn't get that attention and sometimes
love from his family, he says that he started looking elsewhere for it. And he began really
relying on his humor and corkiness to get people to pay attention to him. And little did
he know, this behavior would end up making him extremely famous one day. As Phil got older,
he first attended Santa Monica City College, but ended up dropping out in 1969.
When someone close to him asked if he wanted to be a rote for their band called the Rock and Foo.
And not only was he their rote, but he also made some graphic design stuff for them,
and really loved doing that. He loved the whole atmosphere. He really embraced that lifestyle,
and as a creative person himself,
I can only imagine how much he enjoyed being around other free-spirited creative people.
Eventually though, he did end up returning to college in 1972 at Cal State Northridge,
where he pursued a degree in graphic design. He ended up becoming a graphic designer,
and even though this was the first job of his career, he definitely did it well.
He designed over 40 record covers, many of which are still famous today.
But graphic design was just the start for him.
And in the early to mid 1970s, he ended up starting to work for his brother who owned
a talent agency.
And this opened up a lot of opportunities for him and being around all these other creative
people really inspired him to
want to be in this spotlight himself and he definitely had the talent. So in 1975 he started
attending sketch comedy nights at the groundlings theater. Now if you're not familiar with the groundlings,
it's not only a theater but also the name for the troop of comedians who perform there. And when I say
that a lot of today's famous actors and comedians got their start with the groundlings
I really mean a lot just to name a few we have Will Ferrell Melissa McCarthy my Rudolph Conan O'Brien Lisa Kudrow Jennifer
Coolidge Jimmy Fallon Kristen Wigg and so many more at this point
Phil started attending comedy classes with the improv group because he was interested in becoming more social
with his creative output.
And at first, he would just spend time in the audience
and observe, but one day he spontaneously
just got up on stage and joined in the skit.
And at that point, it was very clear to people
that he was exactly where he was supposed to be.
He had so much talent.
One comedian even said this about Phil.
I never saw an audience member come up with that kind of excitement and energy. It was like a hurricane hit the stage,
and I mean that in a good way. And I think it will become super apparent to you the more that I talk about him,
that Phil had a great reputation in the industry. He was known as being easy going, easy to work with, very kind.
He never asked much of those around him, and he was always willing to say yes to benefit the group.
Phil ended up performing with the groundlings from 1975 all the way to 1985,
but he definitely didn't let that restrict him from other opportunities.
Like I mentioned earlier, he was a co-writer that helps create
the very famous character, Pee Wee Herman. After meeting Paul Rubens through the groundlings,
the two of them worked together to create the show and fill himself even had his own character,
named Cap and Carl. And Phil really established himself as a comedian through his voice acting abilities.
Any type of voice you name it, he could do it.
He had a bunch of characters that he would come up with that had all these different voices.
John Loveitz, who is a very famous actor, said this about working with Phil.
Whatever he was going to imagine or say was nothing you could imagine or think of.
He could do any voice, play any character, and make his face look different without makeup,
and he was the king of the groundlings.
But there was one area of his life that people say he really struggled, and that was his
love life.
In his lifetime, Phil was married a total of three times.
He married his first wife, Cretchen, in 1970, five years before he was ever on anyone's radar, the two of them divorced
in 1972, and then he married his second wife, Lisa, in 1982, and the two of them stayed together
for three years before they finally ended up divorcing. But Lisa ended up staying friends with Phil
following their divorce and said that he was someone who liked to
disappear
emotionally. Things with Phil always started out quick and there was a lot of passion in his relationships. But once that died down
he pretty much checked out at the relationship. Lisa explained that just like the characters he would play, Phil was kind of two different people.
characters he would play, Phil was kind of two different people. He had this really energetic playful side, but then he also had a very quiet, introverted side. He was someone who really liked
alone time and being famous and in this industry, you don't get a lot of alone time. And that was
something that he really craved. But with every failed relationship, he always had something to rely on, and that was his
career.
And in 1986, just a year after him and Lisa split up, his career really hit a whole new
level when he auditioned had an incredible audition, apparently, and was immediately cast
on Saturday Night Live, which is a big deal.
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I wish I could play you guys some of the clips from SNL, but SNL is really tight on the copyright.
So I definitely can't do that. However, if you just, you know, search
Bill Hartman, a bunch of his gets on SNL will come up and I recommend watching them. They're
pretty funny. He was really an instant success once he got on SNL and he was most well-known
for his impressions, specifically of Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan. what is happening from the president himself. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. President, Mr. President,
are you there? Can we go to the other side?
Come on, get down to the other side.
Let's get down to the other side.
Oh, my God.
That's not the end of it.
Mr. President, Mr. President, can you hear me, sir?
Oh, hi, Jay. I'm just doing a little homework here.
Here are your briefs, Mr. President. Oh, thanks, Jay. I'm just doing a little homework here.
Here are your briefs, Mr. President.
Oh, thanks, Connie.
Here are your briefs.
Oh, come on.
Oh, come on.
Now, Mr. President, I thought it'd be good if our audience
heard the story straight from the horse's mouth.
Oh, I wish I could help you, Jay, but Monica's back
in Los Angeles.
All right, look.
All right, look.
All right, look.
He really had such a talent for impersonating people
and his time on SNL is really what made him
part of the big leagues, you could say.
And despite becoming well known for some of his lead roles
in SNL skits, he was also known for his ability
to play secondary roles.
He didn't really care if he was the big star.
He once said that he actually preferred to be
in these middle tier roles because of a skit
went poorly than he wasn't the one who got blamed.
And I loved this, but his nickname on SNL
was the glue.
And Adam Sandler gave him that name
because he held the skits together
and made the jokes stick.
And what I found interesting is he went on SNL
with much bigger dreams in mind.
He kind of wanted SNL to be a launching point for him.
He had hopes that it would put him on the map
so he could start acting and writing as well
in bigger movies.
And while he did go on to act in different shows and movies, SNL was really the biggest, most successful part of his career. But he stayed on SNL for a long time.
And by his eighth season, he had performed as more than 70 different characters. And like I said,
his impressions of former presidents were really his biggest hit, and probably what he was most well known for.
But he first became known for his impressions of Eugene, the anal
retentive chef and the unfrozen caveman lawyer.
I can remember my parents talking about the unfrozen caveman lawyer all the time.
So when I started researching that I kind of connected the dots that that was him,
this was a really funny character.
And even just looking at the photos of him, you can just see how likable he was.
He had this energy about him and real excitement about comedy.
That totally reminds me of Robin Williams, who is God, one of my favorite actors of all time.
I get choked up even talking about Robin Williams.
He was just so amazing.
And Robin was building a career right around the time
that Phil Hartman was.
Phil's comedy overall was just incredibly influential.
And many believed he set himself apart from others
by his ability to write jokes
that nobody in their right mind would ever think of.
He just really thought outside of the box. and he was so talented in many different ways
he could write, he could act, he could direct, I mean, you name it, he could do it.
And I could keep talking about Phil's career, but at this point I want to start talking
more about his personal life.
Like I mentioned earlier, Phil was married three times, but so far I've only told you about
two of his wives.
But we have to talk about his
third wife, who is the reason that I am talking to about Phil's murder today. So in 1986, the same year
that Phil made his SNL debut, he was set up on a blind date with a woman named Brynn Omdol. Brynn,
who was born in Thief river falls, Minnesota, with the
name Vicki, was an aspiring actress herself, who definitely thanked her lucky stars that
she was introduced to fill. And there are many people out there that think that Brynn
really hitched her wagon to fill because he could maybe help get her to the top because
she wanted to be famous. There's no doubt about it.
That was a huge priority to her. And like I mentioned, her name was originally Vicky. And she actually
changed her name a couple of times while she was sort of trying to figure out her identity.
She first moved to LA and worked as a model, but she didn't want that to be all she was. Mostly Brynn wanted to be an
actress, but not just any actress she wanted to be famous, and I'm guessing that meaning Phil
really gave her the confidence that one day she would be. And even though they met just as Phil's
SNL career was taking off, there was a lot of promise that he would really find success.
And what better way for Brynn to get famous than through rising star Phil
Hartman, who by the way, she married after only one year of dating.
But here's the thing.
As Phil's career started really taking off, Brin's just didn't.
Now that left her with, as you can imagine, a lot of jealousy.
And I'm guessing probably a lot of resentment as well. She was constantly asking him to help get her gigs,
but the truth was, Bill didn't think that she was that funny. And I mean, he loved her,
but he didn't see a future in acting for her quite the way that she seemed to see a future
in acting for herself. But that doesn't mean seemed to see a future in acting for herself.
But that doesn't mean he didn't try to help her.
He certainly did, and at one point Phil was on SNL and asked Bren to be the woman sitting
next to him during the filming of one of the scenes.
And during this, the camera pans over to Phil and Bren is sitting next to him and she
ends up looking over at the camera.
And the director literally stopped and had to tell her to look away so she wasn't on
camera.
So it was things like this that made that jealousy really grow.
And later on in the 90s, Phil was on some late night shows and brand made appearances
with him.
And many people believe that it wasn't really Phil's idea
to have her there.
And I can't imagine that anyone with jealousy issues took it well, that their husband was
in the spotlight, that they so wanted and they just weren't.
Phil and Brand had a very rocky relationship with a lot of fighting.
And I mean a lot.
But before I get more into the
bad, I want to talk about some of the good. Phil had always wanted to be a dad. And in 1988,
Bran gave birth to their son, Sean. And actually jumping back to the bad here for a sec.
This is a good example of Brent's jealousy. Remember how I mentioned that Phil remained good friends
with his ex-wife, Lisa?
Well, she called Phil to congratulate him
on the birth of his son a day after he was born.
And when Brin found out she called him,
she wrote Lisa a letter, threatening her
to never contact Phil again.
And Phil even told Lisa later
that the letter Brin sent her was tame
compared to what she wanted to send her.
But back to the good here, Phil was so happy to be a father.
He really was over the moon that his son was born.
And Brin was very happy to be a mother as well.
And then in 1992, their daughter, Bergen, was born.
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So about it, I didn't get any sleep. I came back eight in the morning and the labor wasn't happening.
She wasn't dilating, so they went under the knife. And at noon, I got a little baby girl
in my hands, and I'm just, you know, you think you're going to be more blasey on the second
one, but if anything, I was more blown away. So then, I have to go to work,
begin a 12-hour day and a hundred people.
One at a time, come up and say, well, what happened?
And I'm going to the story and every time I get to the point,
I'm perposing in the tears.
I mean, I've like, sleep deprived.
I'm just a wreck and I'm crying all day long.
And then at the end of the show,
Lauren puts me right together with our host Susan Day.
And it makes me cry just thinking about it.
Susan Day, her good night was, on behalf of everyone
in Studio A.D.H., we want to welcome Miss Bergen Hartman
to the world.
And I just put, I completely lost it.
Yeah.
But it's, you know, they get filled tear it off.
You know, Bergen, I love that name.
It's a Norwegian Swedish, my wife is Swedish Norwegian,
and we wanted a Scandinavian name.
Those wife Olaf.
Oh, Britain, Britain, I've heard.
You're talking about yourself.
They've stabilized, huh?
Let me hold you.
Oh, my God. You know what I'm saying, though? Let me hold you. Oh. Oh. Oh.
You know what I'm saying, you see, though,
you become this will happen to you
because you got a little boy, too.
But if you ever have a girl, you become an instant feminist.
Anybody gets in the way, my little girl.
Now this class ceiling stuff, she's
going straight to the top of the executive pool.
You were part of the emotional gamut here.
So in the span of four years, he became a father to a little boy.
He won an Emmy while on the writing staff for SNL and then became a father to a little girl.
SNL was always going to be Phil's family in a way, but now he had a family of his own that meant
everything to him.
But of course, I do have to mention that,
despite being a new father,
the late 80s and early 90s were a very, very busy time
for him and Bren took on a lot of the parenting responsibilities.
At this time, not only was SNL giving him national recognition,
but he was also filming commercials for brands like Cheetos
and McDonald's.
You mechanic here with Peggy Walter,
who drove right and McDonald's.
In the world got to see more of Phil in the early 90s as he really began to make his rounds
on all the late night shows.
He was on the
Rosio Donald show, the Jay Leno show, the Dennis Miller show, Conan O'Brien, and so
many more.
But for all the good in Phil's life, all the attention he was getting that he so desperately
wanted as a child, all the success that he had dreamed of, things in his marriage were
not going well at all. Like I said, he and Brin fought constantly
and so many people could see that this was taking
a real toll on him.
I mean, he was exhausted from all the back and forth
and drama at home.
Many people said he put on a brave face,
but that didn't always hide what was happening
behind the curtain, literally.
Brin was berating him at home.
She was yelling at him all the time.
She had so much resentment building up.
And it got to the point where Phil had to just go to sleep to get her to stop yelling at him.
And of course, there is so much that goes on in a relationship behind closed doors.
We don't know exactly what was going on at home.
We don't know exactly what all their fights were about.
And I'm certainly not saying that Brynn
was responsible for all of these arguments,
but most people in Phil's life argue
that she was the catalyst for most of their problems.
We do have to remember though, that it takes two to tango.
And for as miserable as things were,
I think they were trying to work through things for
their kids.
And a lot of their arguments and tension definitely stemmed from Bryn's jealousy and resentment
as she was home raising the kids most of the time.
And he was experiencing this successful career that she always wanted.
But there was also another big thing going on here.
Bryn really struggled with an addiction to cocaine.
She was in and out of rehab centers for many years, but sadly, always found her way back
into addiction.
In one instance, she only lasted a few days in a rehab facility because she said it was
just too hard to be away from her children.
And I've said this before in so many videos, I'll say it again, I don't care how many times
I have to say it, addiction is a disease.
Again, the American Society of Addiction Medicine defines addiction as a primary chronic disease
of brain reward, motivation, memory, and related circuitry.
In 1987, the American Medical Association and other medical organizations officially termed addiction
as a disease.
I'm not making excuses for her.
I mean, Brynn had many faults and Phil did too, but her addiction was something that she
actively wanted to overcome, especially for the sake of her family.
And it's important to note that Brynn spent a lot of time alone, which I'm sure made
her feel less supported in her recovery.
But addiction aside, brain wasn't the perfect wife and Phil wasn't the perfect husband.
And like I said, they tried to stay together for the kids. They tried to do right by their kids.
They loved their children. They both really did. However, over time, they did really grow apart.
And that's when Phil started to spend more and more time away from home. He loved
Catalina Island and spent a lot of money on boats and even a plane. He loved to go out fishing with
friends and take a break from life as a star. And I struggle with this because, of course, I do
believe that parents should get some time away from their kids. It's healthy as a parent to take
time for yourself, but I do feel like he did a little bit too much of that. It sounds like there was a good amount of time that he could
have spent with his family and really chose not to. Parenting is always going to look different
from family to family, and I know that. And I have read and watched so many things that insist that
Phil was a very devoted and good father, so I'd like to believe
that this is true. It seemed like most of the issues and him wanting to spend time away was
because he was in such a toxic marriage. Many people who knew Phil said that it seemed like when
he was at home, he almost had to play a character to make it through life with Brynn. Like, it was somehow
easier to not be himself when he was around her.
And sure, she still spent time next to him on red carpets, and got all the attention
that Phil was publicly able to give her, but at the end, this dress wasn't enough for
her.
A feature here and a feature there wasn't a full-time acting deal, and it certainly wasn't
gonna make her famous, but his future on the other hand was only looking brighter and brighter as time went on.
So that brings us to 1994.
Phil ended up deciding to leave SNL.
He said that this was mainly because there was a big turnover in the cast and he felt
the show was going in a new direction.
And he actually had tried to leave before this in 1991, but was convinced to stay by NBC who promised to give him his own
variety show. This show was going to be called the Phil show, and they were going to allow him
to produce, write, and act, but the network ended up dropping the show before it even aired.
But Phil wasn't left completely empty handed by this. In 1995, he joined the sitcom news radio,
which was a comedic take on how staff members
of a New York radio station did their jobs. Phil played the character Bill McNeil and was definitely
a beloved member of this cast. And he was really successful during this time, he was actually making
$50,000 per episode, which is about $90,000 today. And during this time, he was also a voice actor
on The Simpsons, and was most famous for his role
as Troy McClure.
Throughout the 90s, Phil acted on News Radio,
and voice acted on The Simpsons.
And he was also featured in dozens of other productions,
including Tom and Jerry Kids,
the 12 Days of Christmas,
Third Rock from the Sun, Sesame Street, and more.
And that brings us to May of Christmas, third rock from the sun, Sesame Street, and more. And that brings us to May of 1998, when Phil's career and his life were suddenly taken from
him.
The afternoon of May 27th wasn't anything out of the ordinary.
Their children, Sean and Bergen, were being babysat by their nanny, Lorraine for a few
hours while Phil and Brynn were out of the house.
Phil returned home first and relieved Lorraine of her duties and Brin stayed out for a few more
hours. She was actually with a friend at a restaurant, a popular chain restaurant called Bucatobepo.
She was having dinner and a few drinks, two drinks to be specific, nothing too crazy. And when asked later,
Bryn's friends said it was a totally normal night, and that Bryn seemed fine.
She wasn't acting strange in any way. There really wasn't any indication that
she was going to go home and do what she did. In the early morning hours of May
28th, around 2 a.m. Bryn took a 38 caliber Smith and Weson gun and shot her husband three
times ending his life. That night is pretty foggy of exactly what happened. Some sources say
that Brin then continued to drink in their house. And after a few hours of that, she decided
to tell someone what she had done.
Around 3am, Brandon went over to her friend, Ron's house.
And after collapsing on the floor and puking, she ends up confessing that she had shot Phil.
And at first, Ron didn't even believe her. He just couldn't believe that she had actually done
that. And with her being in such a horrible state of mind and drunk,
he thought maybe she was confused,
even though she brought the gun with her over to his house
and showed him.
When Ron looked at the gun,
he actually misread the number of bullets.
And he just thought there was no way
that Brynn had actually done this.
After so bringing up, Brynn decided to drive home and Ron went with her.
But once he got back to their home and then see no,
he saw the truth for himself.
And to no surprise, he called 911 right away.
And Ron wasn't the only friend that Bryn told.
As they were driving back to the house,
she also calls her friend Judy and tells her what she had done.
But unlike Ron, she believed her and immediately called police.
So by the time Ron and Brynn got to the house, police were already outside waiting for
them.
And the goal for police was to not only get Brynn out of the home safely, but also their
two children who were inside the home when their father was shot.
And only one of those two things happened. Just before police entered the home,
Brinn called a persistor and made arrangements for her children. And then she took her own life.
The gunshot was heard just as police were entering the home. And Bryn was then found unresponsive,
laying next to her husband's body on the bed.
Both Sean and Bergen were removed from the property
and put into police custody
and thankfully neither of the children were physically harmed.
However, when police asked them if they had any sense
of what happened, Sean said that he heard gunshots
and I cannot imagine how terrifying that was for him.
He said that it sounded like doors slamming over and over.
And Bergen said that she knew her parents were gone,
but I don't think she really understood the gravity
of what happened until much later.
The murder of 49-year-old Phil Hartman
really shocked the country at the time.
It was devastating to all his fellow comedians and fans.
Of course, people knew that he and Bryn had been struggling, but what's heartbreaking
is just that week, Phil was telling people that things were starting to get better for
them, and I think he really thought that maybe they were.
But never in a million years did anyone think that Brynn was actually capable of doing this.
Obviously, we don't know her exact motive.
A lot of people have speculated on why she did it.
Was it an argument that led to that moment?
Was she angry and bitter and jealous?
And that all just led up to those emotions that just got out of control and maybe the
drinking didn't help.
Did she really have it in her to be a killer? Her brother doesn't think so. He says that earlier
that year she was prescribed zoloft. And her brother believes that the zoloft
in combination with her addiction is what caused her to finally snap. And to be clear, this is what
he said, not what I'm saying.
I'm certainly not justifying her,
murdering her husband, but he ended up suing Pfizer.
And stated that Zoloft is what caused this to happen,
but the company settled for $100,000
and never admitted to wrongdoing.
And because I'm not a doctor
and because this is a very delicate issue
that I do not know enough about, I do not want to speculate too much here about why Brandon did what she did
or what caused her to do it.
No one truly knows.
Many people believe that she was a jealous woman who couldn't stand being second tiered
to her husband's success and not being in the spotlight and that she killed him out of
spite.
Others truly believe that her medication and addiction caused her to do something that she normally wouldn't have done.
The reality is we may never know what really happened that night, what happened in their room
and why she did what she did. And out of respect for their kids, I'm just going to leave it at that.
As for Sean and Bergen, they ended up being raised by Brin's sister, Kathy.
And from what I can tell, they've grown into incredible adults.
Bergen was six years old when her parents died,
and she's definitely not super public with her life,
but we do know that she has recently gotten married
and works as a consent educator
to help end sexual assault, which I think is really amazing.
And I'm gonna link her Instagram down below
in case anyone is interested in learning more
about consent education.
John was only nine years old when he lost his parents.
And I don't know much about him now.
And what he's doing, he isn't very public online.
And I'm sure that's for a reason.
Phil is remembered as the man of 100 voices.
And his work is still celebrated to this day.
But I can't help but think about what a lost the world this was, and what else he could
have done.
What other influence could he have had on the world of comedy and TV had he been given
that chance?
His fellow castmates have never stopped talking about how misty is, and I think his legacy
really lives on.
Please do yourself a favor and go check out some of his work. He was really funny,
very, very talented. I think Phil would want us all to remember what he was like in life
and not just remember his death. His ashes ended up being spread among Emerald Bay on Catalina
Island, which was his favorite place on Earth, and it does make me happy to know that this was his final resting place.
That is going to be it for me today, guys.
Thank you for joining me for another episode, and make sure you follow the show on Spotify
and Apple Podcasts.
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If you want to watch the video version of this show, you can find it on my YouTube channel,
which will be linked, or you can just search Kendall Ray.
I will be back with another episode soon, but until then, stay safe out there.