Trump's Trials - Democrats worry Trump may chip away at Biden's progress on clean energy

Episode Date: January 2, 2025

NPR's A Martínez has a conversation about the present and future of green energy in the U.S. with outgoing Secretary of Energy Jennifer Granholm. Support NPR and hear every episode sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

I'm Scott Detro and you're listening to Trump's Terms from NPR. We will have really great strong people. Donald Trump is unstoppable. Make America healthy again. The future is going to be amazing. Each episode we bring you the latest news about the people who will advise and report to President Donald Trump in his second term. From cabinet secretaries to political advisors to top military leaders, NPR is following

their path to power and exploring how their ideas could become reality. You're about to hear a story about just that in a minute. I'm A. Martinez. If you look beyond the culture wars swirling around climate policy, you'll find that the U.S. has actually made significant progress toward building infrastructure for cleaner energy. In 2022, President Biden signed the Inflation Reduction Act, the country's biggest ever financial investment into green technology.

Now that and the bipartisan infrastructure law poured billions into developing green jobs and modernizing the power grid. But some Democrats worry those efforts could be swept away when Donald Trump re-enters the White House. I asked Jennifer Granholm, the outgoing U.S. Secretary of Energy, how concerned she is that carbon emissions could rise significantly under Trump. Well, I think it all depends on how much of the progress that we've made will continue. And some of that progress is, I think, inexorable,

and some of it, who knows? So I'm concerned because we're at a point where the warming of the planet continues to cause records to be shattered everywhere, not just in the United States. So it's a deep concern. The progress that you describe, Secretary, what part of it do you fear will not continue under the Trump

administration? It's hard to know exactly, because in some cases, the president-elect has said that he wants to essentially support an all-of-the-above strategy, which, of course, includes drilling for oil and gas, as well as potentially continuing the work on generating clean energy. So if you believe that, then I will be encouraged by movement forward.

On the other hand, we've heard that there might be efforts to roll back the incentives for electric vehicles, for example, And that would be deeply concerning. So as the US has made all these investments in renewables, energy demand is also growing a lot faster than expected. Are we as a country prepared to handle the energy demands of, say, AI, for example, without relying on more fossil fuels? Yeah, this is another reason why you can't undo these laws. Because, so for example, this year,

we have added 60 gigawatts of clean power to our electric grid, which is more than double what we've ever added before because of the incentives in the Inflation Reduction Act. That's like 30 Hoover dams worth of clean power that we are adding just this year. Next year, the trajectory will continue. We have to add, you add, new studies have shown about 150 gigawatts of energy to account for the

data centers that will be online by 2030. So these incentives to develop that clean energy, the tech companies that are building out these AI data centers, most if not all of them have commitments to clean energy, to power it with clean energy. And our statement to them has been bring your own power, make sure that you are supplying the power that you need for that and that's not being paid for by everyday citizens. So I'm encouraged by the incentives that have created huge generation, but we've still got more to do. Now let's move

to fossil fuels because for all the emphasis on climate change, the Biden administration also presided over record oil and gas production. And I know the energy secretary doesn't have much say over oil and gas policy, but it seems like going in both directions like that, maybe in some way self-defeating. Well, as you know, in the early part of this administration, Russia invaded Ukraine and that took a huge amount of Russian oil supply off the market which caused prices to skyrocket. You know, two years ago today we were paying two dollars more per gallon for gasoline and so President Biden decided to take the unprecedented move of releasing oil from our strategic oil reserve to stabilize the global market and that incentivized additional production

on the part of the oil and gas industry. So that has happened. There has been that stabilization. The projected peak oil globally is going to happen, if you believe the International Energy Agency administration will peak right before 2030. So the demand and supply of oil and gas both domestically and globally is on a global market So that you know, we'll see what happens on that But our strategy really has been to accelerate the clean side as well

I know that president-elect Trump has nominated Chris Wright to be the next energy secretary to have your job next if you could leave A note for Chris Wright on your desk that he would see on his first day on the job. What would it say? Keep your foot on the accelerator of what we have been doing. Do not take away sources of clean energy generation or disincentivize what has been built. When you say keep his foot on the accelerator, would that be of a gas-powered vehicle, secretary? That would be an electric vehicle. An electric, okay.

But if it's of their choice, of course. We're not banning any gas-powered vehicles, but we do need to move forward with alacrity. That's Jennifer Granholm, the outgoing U.S. Secretary of Energy. Secretary, thank you. You bet. Thanks so much. And before we wrap up, a thank you to our NPR Plus supporters who hear each show without sponsored messages and of course who help protect independent journalism. If you are not a supporter yet, you can visit plus.npr.org to find out how you can get a

ton of podcast perks across dozens of NPR shows, like bonus episodes, exclusive merchandise, and more. Again, that's plus.npr.org. I'm Scott Detro. Thanks for listening to Trump's Terms from NPR.