Trump's Trials - Georgia Secretary of State calls new certification rule "misguided"

Episode Date: September 17, 2024

For this episode of Trump's Trials, All Things Considered host Mary Louise Kelly speaks with Georgia's Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger about the upcoming presidential election. Follow the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify for new episodes each Saturday.Sign up for sponsor-free episodes and support NPR's political journalism at plus.npr.org/trumpstrials.Email the show at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

It's Trump's Trials from NPR. I'm Miles Parks. — Supreme Court justices have issued a major ruling and an election case. — The Justice Department will be relentless in defending the right to vote. — Will you accept the results of the election? — If it's a fair and legal election, absolutely. — In the lead-up to Election Day, NPR is traveling to battleground states across the country. My colleague Mary Louise Kelly is in Georgia today, and she spoke to Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.

In his role, Raffensperger oversees the state's elections. He was in office in 2020, and he was on the other end of that now-infamous phone call where then-President Trump asked him to find votes. He didn't do it, but Raffensperger again finds himself and the state of Georgia at the center of the political universe this year. When we come back, Mary Louise Kelly's conversation with Georgia Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger. The rules changes by the by the state election board are making headlines nationally so let's start there. What is the danger that you are seeing?

Well state law requires all counties to certify the Monday after the election by end of business day and that is a shall so that needs to happen and so we want to make sure that you don't place late minute changes that somehow would delay the process. And can you elaborate on how you see these last minute changes potentially holding things up? Well, number one, what they're talking about is breaking open the ballot boxes. Typically, people need to understand that when you finish the election that night you run the tape and

you get your results and that's what goes back to the county headquarters along with all the machines that were used you know at the county with the ballots and there we've maintained chain of custody so no one is opening those up you know at the local precincts You know with that rule vote the polls close the poll boxes are sealed and the boxes are sealed unsecured So what they're talking about is you'd actually now, you know open up the ballot storage boxes Pull the ballots out on the table and then just proceed to count How many ballots do you have there?

But then they want to go the next check is then open the ballot box Lay it all out the table and make sure that those that count of the paper marries up you know it's the same as all the same number of votes as their voters. What's wrong with that? Because it takes time but also it adds a whole element of a break-in chain of custody. Instead of doing it in a secure warehouse and under the observation of the county election director and you know their permanent team of people and obviously Republican and Democrat and independent observers it would be happening at the precinct level. It's just going to delay it so instead of getting the results done by 9 30 10 o'clock things like that it could

last all the way to 2 3 o'clock in the morning and what I've said is I don't want to see, you know, Georgia start looking like Detroit. It sounds a little bit like a mess, if I may, with rules being changed last minute, lawsuits pending. How much uncertainty does it introduce seven weeks and counting to the election? Well, I said several weeks ago, they're a mess. Can you elaborate? The counties have been doing poll worker training and working with really political party observers on all the existing rules, regulations that we had long standing. And so they've been working on that.

Ballots have all been printed. And now we're going to be ready to really start setting out the absentee ballots. We've received applications and they'll be coming in over the next few weeks. And so that's the other process is we're actually in a live election now. And so it's one of those things, these, this should have been done, you know, months ago, not last minute changes. I want to take you back to January 2nd, 2021. Donald Trump has lost Georgia.

He has lost the 2020 election. And Trump and his team call you and he tells you, you got it wrong. That the people of Georgia are angry because you can't quote find votes for him. And there's nothing wrong with saying that, you know, that you've recalculated because the 2000, 236 and absentee ballots, I mean, they're all exact numbers that were done by accounting firms, law firms, etc. And even if you cut them in half, cut them in half, and cut them in half again, it's more votes than we need. Well, Mr. President, the challenge that you have

is the data you have is wrong. I'm revisiting that call now in the fall of 2024 because you and other officials here in Georgia stood on principle and refused to bow to immense pressure after the 2020 election. But in an ideal world, we shouldn't have to count on that. There should be guardrails. There should be institutional checks protecting our democracy. My question to you today is, are there, have we done enough? I do my job. Every day I do my job. And every day, everyone that holds elected office needs to do their job. It's as simple as that.

You are telling me you are confident that Georgia is going to have a free and fair election in 2024. Are you confident that we will know who won the presidential election in Georgia in a timely manner? It all gets down to how close it is. If it's a Florida 2000 when it's a 400 vote difference, then you have to, it's not so much that, is that you have to make sure that all your UOCAVA, your overseas military ballots that come in on a Friday, that they all get tabulated if there's any other issues. Last thing, your official bio describes you as a lifelong conservative Republican.

It's the first line. I'm guessing you would agree that it's in the best interests of our country to have a healthy and strong Republican Party. I agree. You're nodding. Does it worry you to see prominent Republicans, Dick Cheney, Liz Cheney, former Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez, not just declining to vote for the Republican candidate, but endorsing his Democratic opponent? As Secretary of State, I don't wade into the politics during an election cycle. And I don't want to wade into that.

And so I think people need to remember that they're working for the people. And their job is to do their job. Their job is to follow the law. Their job is to follow the law. Their job is to follow the Constitution. Brad Raffensperger is a Republican and Secretary of State here in Georgia. We are here all week as part of our series We the Voters reporting from swing states throughout the rest of this election season. Secretary Raffensperger, thank you.

You're welcome. Thanks for listening to Trump's Trials from NPR. this election season. Secretary Raffensperger, thank you. You're welcome. Thanks for listening to Trump's Trials from NPR. Keep an eye out for more episodes like this whenever big news happens. I'm Scott Tetra. On the Ted Radio Hour, online shopper Aparna Mehta used to get a lot of packages delivered to her door. Oh, per week? 12, 15?

Whoa! Sorry. But I didn't think I was doing anything wrong. Look, the store is making it possible for me to order as many as I want and return back what I don't want. Shopping and the state of fashion. That's on the Ted Brady Hour podcast from NPR. Every day, technology changes how we live. Shortwave wants you to feel empowered and informed in navigating these new tools.

From AI to precision medicine to quantum computing, face the future with confidence. Listen to the Shortwave podcast from NPR. to precision medicine, to quantum computing, face the future with confidence. Listen to the Shortwave Podcast from NPR.