Trump's Trials - Jury orders Trump to pay E. Jean Carroll $83.3 million for defamation

Episode Date: January 26, 2024

For this episode of Trump's Trials, NPR's Ari Shapiro speaks to NPR's Andrea Bernstein.A jury has awarded writer E. Jean Carroll $83.3 million in a civil defamation suit against former President Donald Trump. In a previous defamation trial Trump was found to have sexually abused and defamed Carroll. The jury in that case awarded her $5 million. Topics include:- How jury came up with $83.3 million figure- Trump's reaction- What's nextFollow the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify for new episodes each Saturday.Sign up for sponsor-free episodes and support NPR's political journalism at plus.npr.org/trumpstrials.Email the show at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

It's Trump Trials from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow. We love Trump! This is a persecution. He actually just stormed out of the courtroom. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. We've got a new episode today because a Manhattan jury has ordered former President Donald Trump to pay writer E. Jean Carroll $83.3 million for defaming her. Now, this was a follow-up case. Previously, another jury had ordered Trump to pay Carroll $5 million and also found that he sexually abused

and defamed her. This case was about things that Trump said following that verdict. We'll hear more about the verdict and what it means for Trump when we come back. CellularNutrition is a holistic collection of cellular nutrients formulated to help fight cellular decline and promote cell health. Learn more at CellularNutrition.Solgar.com. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. You're listening to Trump's Trials. I'm Scott Detrow. And now here's Ari Shapiro. A New York jury today ordered former President Donald Trump to pay a total of $83.3 million to E. Jean Carroll for ruining her credibility as an advice columnist when he called her a liar after she accused him of sexual assault. NPR's Andrea Bernstein was in the courtroom. Hi, Andrea. Hey, Ari.

Tell us more about the jury's decision. So as the judge pointed out in his instructions to the jury, there was a trial last May where it was already established that Donald Trump sexually assaulted E. Jean Carroll, and that he knew his statements calling her a liar when she went public were defamatory. So today there were just three questions. Number one, did Carroll suffer, quote, more than normal damages as a result of the statements Trump made from the White House in 2019? The answer was yes. If so, how much should she receive in compensatory damages?

$18.3 million. maliciously, out of hatred, ill will, or spite, vindictively, or in wanton, reckless, or willful disregard of Ms. Carroll's rights when he made statements on June 21st and 22nd of 2019 from the White House. The answer was also yes. And then to the question of how much she should be paid in punitive damages, the answer was $65 million. After the verdict was read, Carroll and her two main lawyers

gave each other a long group hug. But Trump had already left the courthouse. Tell us more about what it felt like in the courtroom as the verdict was read. So the verdict was pretty quiet. It capped a tense day. Trump had shown up late for court. And then minutes later, his lawyer, Alina Haba, tried to argue with the judge over a ruling that he'd already made. When she kept speaking, Judge Kaplan said, Ms. Haba, you are on the verge of spending some time in the lockup. She sat down. You could practically see steam rising off the defense table. So Carol's lawyer started her closing. And just as she was saying that, quote, Donald Trump has tried to normalize conduct that could hardly be more abnormal and that Donald Trump acts as if the rules and laws don't apply to

him, Donald Trump abruptly stood up and walked out, which the judge remarked on. He said, let the record reflect that Mr. Trump has left the courtroom and he stayed out until his own lawyers started her arguments. And that whole outburst was noted again by Carol's lawyers in their argument that only a big verdict could make Trump follow the rules. What were the factors the jury considered in reaching this $83.3 million decision? So on the question of compensatory damages, Carol's lawyers had shown how after Donald Trump defamed her, she lost her advice column. She was unable to get TV invitations except if she wanted to talk about Donald Trump. And she had a big loss in income.

Now, Trump's lawyers said she became more famous from this, but Carol's lawyers showed how Trump kept lying and lying about her, that he did it even after the verdict in the last trial. In fact, he made a video that was played at the trial, which was after the last verdict, where he was still defaming Carroll, and they showed how he had used it to raise money for his presidential campaign. They said, think how disturbing that is. So the answer to the question of how much money it would take to stop Trump was $85 million. He had boasted about how much money he had. The jury was aware of that and was used against million. He had boasted about how much money he had. The jury was aware of that and was used against him.

Well, just briefly, apart from leaving the room, did Trump have any reaction? Trump issued a statement saying he disagrees with the verdict. He will be appealing. Interestingly, however, he did not lie or call Ms. Carroll a hoax or a con job or say he never met her. None of that was in the post-verdict statement. So maybe the $83 million will mean something. NPR's Andrea Bernstein, thank you. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Trump's Trials from NPR. Keep an eye out for more episodes like this whenever big news happens. And we'll be back later this week with our regular show on Saturday.

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