Trump's Trials - Maine's Secretary of State 'welcomes' Supreme Court to clarify Trump's eligibility

Episode Date: January 1, 2024

For this bonus episode of Trump's Trials, host Scott Detrow is joined by Maine's Secretary of State Shenna Bellows.Last week Bellows ruled that former President Donald Trump's name should be removed from the Republican primary ballot in the state, under section three of the 14th Amendment. The Civil War era provision disqualifies anyone who has engaged in an insurrection against the U.S. Constitution from running for office. For now Trump remains on the ballot until a higher court weighs in.Topics include:- Reasoning for this decision- Response to criticism- Need for U.S. Supreme Court to weigh in- Concerns over threatsFollow the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify for new episodes each Saturday.Sign up for sponsor-free episodes and support NPR's political journalism at plus.npr.org/trumpstrials.Email the show at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Another state disqualifies former President Donald Trump from the primary ballot. From NPR, this is Trump's Trials. I'm Scott Detrick. This is a persecution. Felony violations. For national security laws. We need one more indictment. Criminal conspiracy. To close out this election.

He actually just stormed out of the courtroom. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. We have a bonus episode for you to start the new year, because a few days ago, Maine became the second state to remove former President Donald Trump's name from the Republican primary ballot. In a moment, you'll hear my interview with the Secretary of State who made the decision to do so. First, a little context. Maine is now the second state to disqualify Trump from appearing on a primary ballot, and that raises the pressure on the U.S. Supreme Court to settle the question of whether this is legal.

Maine's Secretary of State, Shanna Bellows, made the decision to disqualify Trump, and she, like Colorado's state Supreme Court before her, believed that Trump violated Section 3 of the Constitution's 14th Amendment, violated Section 3 of the Constitution's 14th Amendment, which states in part that individuals who, quote, engage in insurrection or rebellion should be disqualified from holding office. But also like the Colorado ruling, the decision by Maine's Secretary of State is on pause, pending expected appeals from Trump and his legal team, and this makes it almost inevitable that at some point the U.S. Supreme Court will have a final say about whether Trump is eligible to hold office. When we come back, we'll hear from Bellows. Concur. Stuart McLean, CFO of Brother UK, shares how SAP Concur's audit and expense tool supports their work across multiple offices. Across Europe, we have a presence in 17 countries,

which obviously involves 17 different tax regulations, 17 different fiscal authorities, you know, and this makes life complicated for us. But actually with SAP Concur, we're able to configure the system correctly for each of those countries. We're able to configure the audit rules correctly for each of those countries. So actually it gives us a lot of efficiency and good governance as well. So actually for us, a solution like SAP Concur makes life so much easier. Otherwise we'd be forever checking back to regulations, checking back to documentation. Those are automatically updated in the system for us. Otherwise, we'd be forever checking back to regulations, checking back to documentation.

Those are automatically updated in the system for us. So that's, you know, it's a big tick in the box from a governance perspective and an efficiency perspective as well. Visit Concur.com to learn more. So how did you define engaging in insurrection here? Well, let's back up for your listeners first and make sure that everyone understands that Maine law is, to my knowledge, different from every other state. Under Maine law, when I qualified Mr. Trump for the ballot, any registered voter had the right to challenge that qualification. Five voters did so, including two former Republican state senators. And then I was required under the statute, under the law, to hold a hearing and issue a decision and do so within a

very compressed timeline. So this wasn't something I initiated, but it's something that's required under Maine election law. Sure. So the question came to you, but it puts you in the position of weighing a really serious question with big consequences that's in front of a lot of state courts right now. And that is this question of whether the attempt to overturn the election and what happened on January 6th was insurrection. How did you think about that key question? So I reviewed very carefully the hearing proceedings and the weight of the evidence presented to me at the hearing. And that evidence made clear first that those events of January 6, 2021, and we all witnessed them, they were unprecedented. They were tragic. But they were an attack not only upon the

Capitol and government officials, but also an attack on the rule of law, on the peaceful transfer of power. And the evidence presented at the hearing demonstrated that they occurred at the behest of and with the knowledge and support of the outgoing president. And the United States Constitution does not tolerate an assault on the foundations of our government. And under Maine election law, I was required to act in response. And I understand, like, as you pointed out, this is the way the system is set up. You are put in the position of making this ruling. But I do want to ask about some of the specific criticism that

has come your way following this ruling. Maine Congressman Jared Golden is somebody who voted to impeach Trump for what he did on January 6th. He made it clear he doesn't want to see him in office again. But he said, we are a nation of laws. Therefore, until Trump is actually found guilty of the crime of insurrection, he should be allowed on the ballot. What's your response to that line of criticism? So I encourage people to read my decision and also read very carefully section three of the 14th amendment. It doesn't say convict. It doesn't say convicted or impeached. But furthermore, here's what's very,

very important. In my decision, I made clear this is part of Maine's process. It now goes to Maine's Superior Court. Mr. Trump may and will appeal to Superior Court. Then it goes to the Maine Supreme Judicial Court and then to the U.S. Supreme Court. And I voluntarily suspended the effect of my decision pending that court process because we are a nation governed by the Constitution and the rule of law. And that is extraordinarily important. So I can't agree more with Representative Golden that it's the rule of law that matters. And in Maine, under our election laws, the only recourse for the voters

seeking to challenge Mr. Trump's qualifications was to bring that challenge to the Secretary of State, to me. And I was required to do my job to hold a hearing to review the evidence and issue a decision. And that begins the process in our state. Do you think the U.S. Supreme Court needs to take this question up? We would certainly welcome the United States Supreme Court to make this clear. And you mentioned that your ruling is on hold for the moment. Same applies to what the state Supreme Court did in Colorado. How quickly do you in Maine, as the person who oversees

elections in Maine, how quickly do you need clarification from the U.S. Supreme Court in order to move forward for the primary? Under federal law, all our military and overseas voters, sometimes called Yokava voters, are eligible to receive their ballots 45 days prior to the presidential primary, which in Maine is on March 5th. So here in Maine, those voters are eligible to receive their ballots on January 20th. So the courts are compelled by a very compressed timeline as well here in our state, and I am hopeful we'll have resolution. I do want to ask your response to one other line of criticism from former President Trump's legal team and many Republicans saying

this is just partisan, pointing out you're a Democrat, arguing that this is just a partisan attempt to take him down in a moment when he's leading in many polls. What is your response to that? Because it's been a clear part of the narrative for several days. Politics and my personal views played no role. I swore an oath to uphold the Constitution, and that is what I did. And I will tell you, my house was swatted on Friday night, and I stand by doing my job, but the response, the threats of violence and threatening communications have been unacceptable. Do you have extra security at this point in time?

There have been other threats as well. Law enforcement has been incredible. They have been so supportive of me in this time. I feel safe and I will continue to do my job and uphold my oath that I swore to the Constitution because that comes first. That's Maine Secretary of State Shanna Bellows. Thank you so much. Thank you. And we'll be back later thisanna Bellows. Thank you so much. Thank you. And we'll be back later this week with another episode of Trump's Trials.

Thank you again to our supporters who hear the show sponsor free. If it's not you, it could be. Sign up at plus.npr.org or subscribe on the show page in Apple podcast. The show is produced by Tyler Bartlam and edited by Adam Rainey and Steve Drummond. Our technical director is Kwasi Lee. Our executive producers are Beth Donovan and Sammy Yenigan. Eric Maripoti is NPR's vice president of news programming. I'm Scott Detrow.

Thanks for listening to Trump's Trials from NPR. Thank you. on whatever the market throws at you next. Learn more at Concur.com. Last year, over 20,000 people joined the Body Electric Study to change their sedentary, screen-filled lives. And guess what? We saw amazing effects. Now you can try NPR's Body Electric Challenge yourself. Listen to updated and new episodes wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to updated and new episodes wherever you get your podcasts. This is my voice. I can tell you a lot about me, and I'm not changing it for anyone. In NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, you'll find a collection of NPR episodes centered on Black experiences.

Search NPR Black Stories, Black Truths wherever you get your podcasts.