Trump's Trials - New Georgia rule could lead to election certification challenges

Episode Date: September 2, 2024

For this episode of Trump's Trials, All Things Considered Host Ailsa Chang speaks with Voting Correspondent Miles Parks. Georgia recently changed a voting rule that could allow some local election boards the ability to refuse to certify results. NPR's Miles Parks breaks down the concerns over this rule change and why some experts believe the courts are a strong backstop to possible certification challenges. Follow the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify for new episodes each Saturday.Sign up for sponsor-free episodes and support NPR's political journalism at plus.npr.org/trumpstrials.Email the show at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

It's Trump's Trials from NPR. I'm Scott Detro. Supreme Court justices have issued a major ruling and an election case. The Justice Department will be relentless in defending the right to vote. Will you accept the results of the election? If it's a fair and legal election, absolutely. Many a former president Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election focused on the lesser-known technical and administrative aspects of counting votes. Those efforts, as we know, failed.

But since 2020, there have been a lot of pushes to change election rules. In Georgia, officials have just passed a new rule that could allow local election boards to refuse to certify results. And with Georgia a key state in deciding who the next president would be, this could become an issue. When we come back, NPR's voting correspondent Miles Parks explains. You're listening to Trump's Trials. I'm Scott Detro. And now here's Elsa Chang. So let's start with certification. Tell us more about what it is and why it is such a

big deal. Right. This is not something most people had ever thought about before 2020 because it really is more of a formality where these local political bodies, usually county canvassing boards or city commissions, they sign off and confirm the work of election officials. This was never a controversial step until the last presidential election when then President Donald Trump personally called two members of a canvassing board in Michigan trying to convince them not to certify the election there. The problem is Trump and

his allies seem to misunderstand the role of local certifiers. They're not tallying votes, they're not checking signatures or running audits, that's the job of election officials. In every state there are channels available to voters and to candidates if they want to challenge part of the counting process. Often this happens through the filing of lawsuits, but there are no states where this sort of certification refusal is legal. Right, but since that Trump phone call in 2020, we've heard more and more about this happening. Why is that? Right. So this is another sign that these sort of election conspiracy theories have

seeped into every aspect of voting. In recent years, dozens of Republican local officials, often citing these conspiracy theories or some sort of patriotic duty, have voted against certification in their counties. And this is all getting new attention now because of this new rule that was passed recently by the Georgia Elections Board that seems to allude to these boards being investigative bodies. Many election law experts think that rule violates state law and litigation is already pending on it.

Well, how have the courts viewed these sorts of cases as they've started to pop up in recent years? So this is what makes election officials feel really confident this year because in every single case across the country where a county has voted not to certify, courts have stepped in forcing certification. Derrick Bowens, who runs elections in Durham County, North Carolina, told me state law in his state has language specifically indicating people in these positions do not get discretion. Under North Carolina law, the statute says a county board of elections shall.

It doesn't say might or consider or maybe. So this is not ideal. When any county declines to certify, it definitely lends credence to this idea that something is wrong, even if there isn't evidence. But there is a general confidence in the elections community that courts will be an effective backstop

against this type of interference. I get the sense though that voting officials are almost planning on this being part of their post-election process this year, right? Yeah, that's definitely true at the state level. And that's partly because many of them are now familiar with this playbook. In the midterms, for instance, three different Pennsylvania counties declined to certify because they disagreed with a court order about how to count mail ballots.

Here's Pennsylvania's Secretary of the Commonwealth, Al Schmidt. And that wasn't because the election was closed. That wasn't because there was any evidence whatsoever of voter fraud or an election irregularity. So we went to court and promptly compelled them to certify. So if we see that happen again in 2024, we will be ready to go. Schmidt told me he is not too worried about the certification issue, but his office will be prepared. That is NPR's Miles Parks worried about the certification issue, but his office will be prepared. That is NPR's Miles Parks.

Thank you so much, Miles. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Trump's Trials from NPR. Keep an eye out for more episodes like this whenever big news happens. I'm Scott Detro. If you're hearing this, that means you haven't gone sponsor free with NPR plus. Join us on the plus side for awesome podcast perks across more than 20 NPR podcasts, including bonus episodes, behind the scenes content, sponsor free listening, and more. Learn more and sign up at plus.npr.org and never hear this promo again.

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