Trump's Trials - Nixon attorney: "Richard Nixon would have had a pass" with this Supreme Court

Episode Date: July 2, 2024

For this episode of Trump's Trials, All Things Considered host Ailsa Chang speaks with NPR Justice Correspondent Carrie Johnson.In 1974 the Supreme Court unanimously ruled in United States v. Nixon, that Nixon must to comply with a subpoena and hand over his White House tapes. It was a blow to Nixon's presidency and two weeks later he resigned from office. But what would've happened if today's Supreme Court was on the bench in 1974? Carrie Johnson spoke with people involved in Watergate to find out. Follow the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify for new episodes each Saturday.Sign up for sponsor-free episodes and support NPR's political journalism at plus.npr.org/trumpstrials.Email the show at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

It's Trump's Trials from NPR. I'm Elsa Chang. This is a persecution. He actually just stormed out of the courtroom. Innocent to proven guilty in a court of law. The Supreme Court's landmark decision granting presidents broad immunity is already having an effect on former President Trump's other legal cases. Trump was scheduled to be sentenced next week for his conviction in the New York hush money trial. But that has been moved to September 18th because the judge now has to determine whether the Supreme Court decision affects Trump's conviction.

Not since Richard Nixon has there been a serious consideration to prosecute a president. And that got NPR Justice Correspond correspondent Kerry Johnson thinking, what would have happened if this Supreme Court was back on the bench in 1974? That conversation when we come back. Essentially, the Supreme Court here has just given Donald Trump kind of a legal shield, right? What do you think that does now to the special counsel's case against Trump? At least part of the election interference case against Donald Trump is now dead, according to the Supreme Court majority.

This is after they ruled presidents get absolute immunity for things like replacing an attorney general. In fact, the majority opinion said it would be no problem for presidents to discuss opening criminal investigations with top Justice Department officials. And that's something most presidents have avoided since the Watergate scandal. It got me thinking about Watergate and what might have happened to Richard Nixon if this Supreme Court ruling had been on the books back in 1974. Nixon resigned to avoid impeachment. Then he hired a law firm to defend him in the criminal investigation. William Jeffress was a young defense lawyer at that firm.

I caught him by phone today to ask about the Nixon probe. He was accused of orchestrating an obstruction of justice using his Attorney General Mitchell, his Chief of Staff Bob Haldeman, his assistant for domestic affairs John Ehrlichman, not to mention the White House counsel John Dean. Within a month, Nixon accepted a pardon so his criminal exposure never got litigated. Jeffress says the Supreme Court ruling this week would have completely reshaped Nixon's legal predicament. Former White House counsel John Dean put it bluntly.

Richard Nixon would have had a pass. Dean, who pleaded guilty to a conspiracy charge and served prison time, spoke to reporters this week after the high court ruling on immunity. Virtually all of his Watergate-related conduct and virtually all that evidence falls in what could easily be described as official conduct. Official and thus presumptively immune according to the Supreme Court majority. Philip Lacovara worked for the Watergate special prosecutor.

Lacovara says it was unthinkable back then that Nixon would be forever immune for any criminal acts he committed during his presidency. Things like misusing the CIA to block an FBI investigation into the Watergate burglary and cover-up. Even such things as illegal wiretapping and the break-in at the psychiatrist's office of Daniel Ellsberg, those were all done in the name of national security, which this court would certainly view as a core presidential function. Lacovara says the high court decision reflects a dangerous endorsement of an imperial presidency. Decision by the Roberts Court was explicit that the president's motives

for exercising his constitutional functions may not be examined by the courts. And I think that's another one of the aspects of this decision that is so destructive of all the concepts of justice that we've come to cherish in this country. As for what the case means now and in the future, Lacovara says? It basically puts a blowtorch in the hands of an arsonist by declaring that any acts

within the outer perimeter of presidential functions is either absolutely immune from criminal prosecution or effectively immune from criminal prosecution. All right, we have Kerry Johnson joining us again in the studio. That was so interesting to revisit history through the lens of yesterday's Supreme Court decision. And before we let you go, I mean, there's been more fallout today from that immunity decision, right? That's right. Trump sentencing in the New York hush money case had been set for next week. Now it's delayed to September 18th as Donald Trump tries to argue the Supreme Court decision on immunity helps him there in that case.

That is NPR's Carrie Johnson. Thank you so much, Carrie. My pleasure. Thanks for listening to Trump's Trials from NPR. Keep an eye out for more episodes like this whenever big news happens. And we'll be back later this week with our regular show on Saturday. I'm Scott Tetra. Last year, over 20,000 people joined the Body Electric study to change their sedentary screen-filled

lives. And guess what? We saw amazing effects! Now you can try NPR's Body Electric Challenge yourself. Listen to updated and new episodes wherever you get your podcasts. All that sitting and the swiping, your body is adapting to your technology. Learn how and what you can do about it. I really felt like the cloud in my brain kind of dissipated.

Once I started realizing what a difference these little breaks were making, there's no turning back for me. Take NPR's body electric challenge. Listen to the series wherever you get your podcasts. It's a high stakes election year. So it's not enough to just follow along. You need to understand what's happening

so you are fully informed come November. Every weekday on the NPR Politics Podcast, our political reporters break down important stories and backstories from the campaign trail, so you understand why it matters to you. Listen to the NPR Politics Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.