Trump's Trials - Special counsel Jack Smith says evidence against Trump was enough to convict him

Episode Date: January 14, 2025

The Department of Justice's long-awaited election interference report against Donald Trump, released early Tuesday, said the evidence against the president-elect would have led to his conviction at trial — if not for his election victory that led to charges being dropped. NPR's Carrie Johnson reports.Support NPR and hear every episode sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

I'm Scott Detro and you're listening to Trump's Terms from NPR. We will have really great strong people. Donald Trump is unstoppable. Make America healthy again. The future is going to be amazing. Each episode we bring you the latest news about the people who will advise and report to President Donald Trump in his second term. From cabinet secretaries to political advisors to top military leaders, NPR is following

their path to power and exploring how their ideas could become reality. You're about to hear a story about just that in a minute. I'm Stephen Skeep. And I'm A. Martinez. First, we have news of special counsel Jack Smith, who will not record a criminal conviction against President-elect Trump, but will leave his conclusions for the history book. Justice Department lawyer investigated Trump for his bid to overturn his defeat in the 2020 election.

Smith dropped two criminal cases after Trump's win in 2024 following a long-standing policy against prosecuting a sitting president. But his report on one of those cases is now public and it asserts that the evidence would have convicted him. Smith also says it is quote laughable that he acted from political motives. NPR's Carrie Johnson joins us now after a very late night and early morning on this story. Carrie, good morning. Good morning, Steve. What does it matter that Jack Smith's report would be public now, given that he's not going to prosecute? This was really a last chance for prosecutors

to explain their decisions and defend themselves. It also could accomplish some measure of accountability for people who were hurt on January 6, 2021, some of those police officers. There are civil lawsuits that are ongoing that continue against Donald Trump and others. And it's also really a record for history at a time when Trump and many other Republican lawmakers are clinging to fake claims about election fraud in 2020 and

calling those people who stormed the Capitol patriots. Because the final report was being argued over, the release of the report was being argued over in court, I had my doubts as to whether we would see it before January 20th, Inauguration Day. How did that work out? Yeah, every step of this investigation has been a battle. And even late last night, Trump tried one last time to get a judge

to block this report, but he did not succeed. On social media overnight, Trump said the voters had spoken and returned him to the White House. And remember, the Supreme Court handed him a significant victory last year, ruling he had some immunity from prosecution. The justices there took so long to decide the clock ran out on this indictment here

in Washington, D.C. And really over the past week, Trump's former aides at the Mar-a-Lago Resort had asked Florida Judge Eileen Cannon to block this report, even though that case was no longer in front of her. It was really an open question whether we'd see it up till last night. In the end, she did not block it. And so last night you get these 150 pages. What stands out for you?

Jack Smith wrote there was enough evidence to convict Trump at trial of these four felony charges related to efforts to overthrow the 2020 election. Smith says the ultimate decision in this case to charge Trump was up to him and overthrow the 2020 election. Smith says the ultimate decision in this case to charge Trump was up to him and he stands by that. He says even though they couldn't get to trial because of the DOJ view that a sitting president cannot face criminal trial, that this effort mattered, that the rule of law matters, that the example his prosecutor set to fight for justice despite personal costs and attacks and threats that all matters Jacksmith wrote as a prosecutor you cannot control the outcome

But you can do your job in the right way for the right reasons and he says they did and it is interesting given that Trump And his supporters have characterized Smith very negatively that Smith is saying no actually we set an example We were doing the right thing here. That is his case Is that the last word from him? You know, special counsels are typically invited to testify in Congress once their work is done. Democrats have asked the Justice Department to save all of Smith's files.

Republicans want to investigate him. And President-elect Trump has vowed retribution. Jack Smith actually resigned before he could be fired by Trump. And other prosecutors who worked on the Smith investigations have been making plans to leave the Justice Department to Trump's nominees to lead the DOJ and the FBI in the next administration have promised to investigate those investigators. So it could be a difficult road ahead financially and otherwise for a lot of these people who worked in the government.

And there might be questions about those investigations, promised investigations and confirmation hearings to come. Carrie, thanks so much. My pleasure. NPR's Carrie Johnson. Before we wrap up, a reminder, you can find more coverage of the incoming Trump administration on the NPR Politics Podcast, where you can hear NPR's political reporters break down the day's biggest political news, with new episodes every weekday afternoon. And thanks as always to our NPR Plus supporters who hear every episode of the show without

sponsor messages. You can learn more at plus.npr.org. I'm Scott Detrow. Thanks for listening to Trump's terms from NPR.