Trump's Trials - The fight over whether the Jan. 6th case will make it to trial

Episode Date: September 5, 2024

For this episode of Trump's Trials, All Things Considered host Ari Shapiro speaks with NPR Justice Correspondent Carrie Johnson.The Justice Department is looking to salvage the federal election interference case against Trump following the Supreme Court's ruling that he has considerable immunity from criminal prosecution for acts carried out while he was president.Follow the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify for new episodes each Saturday.Sign up for sponsor-free episodes and support NPR's political journalism at plus.npr.org/trumpstrials.Email the show at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

It's Trump's Trials from NPR. I'm Scott Detro. We love Trump! This is a persecution. He actually just stormed out of the courtroom. Innocent to a proven guilty in a court of law. After months of delays and then landmark Supreme Court decision granting broad criminal immunity to sitting presidents, former President Donald Trump's federal election interference case

was back in the courtroom today. This is the case tied to Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election, which led to the January 6th attack on the U.S. Capitol. Special Counsel Jack Smith's team recently filed a new, more limited set of charges to take into account the Supreme Court's ruling. Today, they appeared before Judge Tanya Chutkin and said they're again ready to move the case forward. Trump's defense team, as they've successfully done

for more than a year now, attempted to further delay future proceedings. They also tried to get the case thrown out altogether. Stick around, NPR Justice correspondent, Kari Johnson, will break down what happened in the courtroom and what comes next. This message comes from NPR sponsor Organic Valley, a co-op of small organic family farms. Farmer Tyler Webb shares why caring for his land has always been a priority. I'd like to contribute to my community

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So this federal election interference case has been on hold for months. What happened when everybody returned to court today? This was the first time Trump and the DOJ lawyers have appeared since the landmark Supreme Court ruling this summer. The conservative supermajority on the court gave Trump and future presidents broad immunity from prosecution for actions that involve their core powers. The high court said official actions are presumed to have immunity, that's a bit of a gray

area and personal acts from a president get no legal shield. It's now going to be up to Judge Tanya Chutkin to make those tough calls. She's figuring out how to proceed in this case, but she says there needs to be some forward motion, even if there's no chance of a trial this year. Well, what's the Justice Department asking for at this stage?

Prosecutors want to file one big brief about why this case should survive the Supreme Court decision. That could include some new evidence and evidence we already knew about. The Justice Department says it can be ready to do that by the end of September, but some of the material might be under seal because it involves sensitive witness interviews or grand jury information. Trump's lawyer, John Lauro, seemed worried about that becoming public before the November election. He talked about a moment of great sensitivity for the nation and how this case involves

the presidency. But the judge shot him down. She says she's worried about this four-count felony case and not the election calendar. Well looking ahead, what are the biggest legal battles still to come in this case? Both sides had a lot to say today about former Vice President Mike Pence. Trump's accused of pressuring Pence to delay certification of the electoral count on January 6th. Randall Eliason is a law professor at George Washington University. He says this is going to be a big fight.

The vice president is kind of a gray area. So that will be a major source of contention. Smith is arguing that what Mike Pence did here was not in his role as vice president, but in his constitutional role as president of the Senate. The legislative role, there is really no role for the president or vice president in counting the votes. Donald Trump's lawyers see this differently. They think Trump's contacts with Pence

should get legal protection. They say if Trump has immunity there, the whole case should be dismissed because the grand jury heard tainted evidence. But the judge wasn't so sure about that. We're gonna be reading and hearing a lot more about it in the weeks ahead. And Trump did not appear in court today. He was giving a campaign speech in New York. Did you get any hints about the next steps for him and his lawyers in this case? Yeah, Donald Trump's lawyers say they plan to challenge the appointment of the special counsel Jack Smith.

They argue he was named in an unconstitutional way. A Florida judge appointed by Trump bought that argument and used it to dismiss a separate criminal case against the former president for hoarding classified documents this year. But Judge Chutkin in D.C. says she is not persuaded. She says there's binding precedent here in D. in DC that blesses the way the Justice Department names special counsels. And when Trump's lawyer cited writing by the conservative Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas to help make his case, this judge in DC seemed really skeptical.

NPR's Carrie Johnson, thank you. My pleasure. Thanks for listening to Trump's Trials from NPR. Keep an eye out for more episodes like this whenever big news happens. I'm Scott Tetra. Waylon, how much do you think it would cost to buy one of those big digital billboards in Times Square to promote our show, the indicator from Planet Money and Big Lights? In this economy?

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