Trump's Trials - The myth about noncitizen voting

Episode Date: October 16, 2024

For this episode of Trump's Trials, host Scott Detrow speaks with NPR voting correspondent Miles Parks and NPR reporter Jude Joffe-Block.Former President Donald Trump and his allies have been ramping up a baseless claim that Democrats are encouraging newly-arrived migrants to vote for them in this year's federal elections. There is no evidence to support this claim of noncitizens voting and yet the narrative has taken hold among Republican voters. Follow the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify for new episodes each Saturday.Sign up for sponsor-free episodes and support NPR's political journalism at plus.npr.org/trumpstrials.Email the show at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

It's Trump's Trials from NPR. I'm Scott Detrick. Supreme Court justices have issued a major ruling and an election case. The Justice Department will be relentless in defending the right to vote. Will you accept the results of the election? If it's a fair and legal election, absolutely. If things are not going former President Donald Trump's way on election night, he's already given us a pretty good idea of how he may contest the results. Trump and his allies have zeroed in on the baseless claim that Democrats are encouraging

newly arrived migrants to vote for them in the 2024 election. There is no evidence of a plot like this, and on top of that, it is illegal and incredibly rare for non-citizens to vote in federal races. Still, this narrative has taken off this year. Coming up, we will talk about it with NPR's Miles Parks and Jude Jaffe Block. This message comes from WISE, the app for doing things in other currencies. Send, spend, or receive money internationally,

and always get the real-time mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Download the WISE app today, or visit wise.com, T's and C's apply. When voters talk during an election season, we listen. We ask questions, we follow up, and we bring you along to hear what we learned. Get closer to the issues, the people,

and your vote at the to hear what we learned. Get closer to the issues, the people, and your vote at the NPR Elections Hub. Visit npr.org slash elections. Miles, let me start with you though. It feels like this claim about non-citizens voting is suddenly everywhere. What happened? So just to be clear, this is a myth

that has been floating around American politics since the 1800s. And experts say it usually spikes during periods of non-white immigration due to fears about how that influx of immigrants is going to impact the country. But election officials all over the country say this summer it became clear that this would be the number one false narrative leading up to the election. I talked about that recently with Lisa Tollefson, who runs elections in Rock County, Wisconsin. The first time I started sitting, I was starting to do poll worker trainings June,

July, getting ready for August elections, where they were actually asking those questions during my poll worker training. This is an example of how a false idea can get mainstreamed if enough authoritative voices all center on it. It also feels like one of the clearest examples of how Trump has taken hold of the Republican Party right now. He has been saying, you know, some version of this lie for years now, but now we are seeing a number of Republican officials at all levels of government embrace it as well. For congressional Republicans,

for instance, it became a top legislative priority this year. Jude, can you connect the dots for us from officials like Trump saying this to how it's reaching voters and becoming so pervasive? Yeah. And if you consume conservative media, this narrative is unavoidable. And then you add in that an owner of a social media company, Elon Musk, is frequently putting out misleading claims about it on his platform. And it all adds up to Americans being bombarded with this idea that non-citizens are voting over and over again. Jude, can we quantify just how much this rhetoric has changed public opinion on this?

— So an NPR PBS News Marist poll came out a couple weeks ago, and it asked voters about this. And slightly more than half, 52%, said they were concerned about noncitizens voting in the election. And when you break it down by party, 81% of Republicans were concerned. One of those voters is Greg Gutsky. He's a Republican in Colorado. And he told me he thinks non-citizen voting is a bigger concern this year compared to previous elections because of the spike in border crossings that happened earlier in the Biden administration. This is part of the agenda to This is part of the agenda to flood the nation with people that will ultimately vote democratic and not be citizens and vote in our election. Because the people who let them in there, it's kind of like a payback.

Now there isn't evidence that there's a plot to get recent border crossers to vote. Some voters I spoke to didn't reference that conspiracy, but they were still concerned about mistakes or data breaches that could lead to ineligible voters like non-citizens participating. I should say that past audits and studies have shown that non-citizen voting is incredibly rare. Non-citizens who try to vote in federal or state races are risking serious penalties like prison or deportation, which are pretty strong deterrents. Yeah. Miles, what are the implications of this rhetoric if a large number of Americans really do believe

these narratives heading into the election? This is going to be something we're watching really closely as voting continues for the next couple of weeks, specifically in how this narrative impacts voters of color and naturalized citizens. I talked about that recently with the lead election official in Georgia's Bartow County. His name is Joseph Kirk, and he told me he's worried about it. People who may have an accent or may look a little different color skin, these are voters like everybody else. He said he's concerned specifically that either these voters are going to be afraid to vote

or that when they do show up to vote at the polls that there could be some sort of confrontation or issue with other voters? And we're already seeing real world impacts of the narrative. So there have been conservative efforts targeting state voter rolls. And we've seen those efforts in snaring U.S. citizens, which is jeopardizing their ability to vote in this election. Trump-aligned groups have already filed lawsuits in various states over the issue of alleged non-citizens on the voter rolls. And those suits not only are putting exaggerated claims in the headlines, they also could be potentially revived after the election to challenge the results if Trump loses. That is NPR's Jude Jophey Block and Miles Parks. Thanks to both of you.

Thanks, Scott. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Trump's Trials from NPR. Keep an eye out for more episodes like this whenever big news happens. I'm Scott Detro. This message comes from NPR sponsor, the NPR Wine Club, a place to explore the exciting world of wine, including wines inspired by popular NPR shows like Weekend Edition Cabernet. Whether buying a few bottles or joining the club, all purchases help support NPR programming

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