Trump's Trials - Who loses in Trump cuts to universities? Former Obama official reacts

Episode Date: April 2, 2025

The Trump administration pledged this week to withhold millions from various colleges and universities, including the University of Pennsylvania, Columbia University and Harvard University. Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the vice provost for global initiatives at the University of Pennsylvania, says the administration's move to cut funding amounts to a war on higher education. He speaks to NPR's Ailsa Chang. Support NPR and hear every episode sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

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Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right. They offer premium wireless plans for less, and all plans include high-speed data, unlimited talk and text, and nationwide coverage. See for yourself at mintmobile.com slash switch. I'm Elsa Chang. 8.7 billion, 400 million, 175 million. These are just some examples of the money that the federal government has withheld or is threatening to withhold from various colleges and universities, including the University of Pennsylvania,

Columbia University, and Harvard University. That $8.7 billion figure was announced yesterday by the Trump administration, which said that it's reviewing federal grants and contracts awarded to Harvard because Harvard has not done enough to curb anti-Semitism. The figures are staggering, and this money helps fund a wide variety of work. Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the vice provost for global initiatives at the University of Pennsylvania, says the administration's move to cut funding amounts to a war on higher education. Dr. Emanuel also served under the Obama administration, and we should note he also is the father of Gabriella Emanuel, who's with NPR's science

desk. Welcome back to All Things Considered. Thank you very much. I want to start with some specific areas of work that these funding cuts could affect. Last night in an email, Harvard's president Alan Garber said that the cuts would quote, halt life-saving research and imperil important scientific research and innovation. I realize that you were not at Harvard, but I imagine you can explain what Garber means. What types of things does this funding support? Well, I can tell you the kinds of things that we've done at Penn. We're looking at vaccines to prevent cancers. Let me put it in this context for you, Elsa.

Since 2000, which was the end of the Human Genome Project, there have been five major advances in biology, sort of platform advances. There's been CRISPR technology to change genes. There's been CAR T therapy for cancers. There's been CRISPR technology to change genes. There's been CAR-T therapy for cancers. There's been gene therapy. There's mRNA vaccines, and now there's these GLP-1 anti-obesity, anti-diabetes drugs. All of them, all five of them, were really born in labs,

in universities and medical schools, one in part with Denmark, American universities. All of that kind of novel breakthroughs that really help people. Right. And this money, it's not just for research, it's also for grants and loans to students. It also supports local economies, the community that lives around these universities. But let me ask you this, if I may push back a little, Harvard has the largest academic endowment in the world. Like in 2024, it was valued at more than $53 billion. I imagine there are a lot of people out there

who might be wondering, why do schools like that need so much money from the federal government to begin with? So look, we have an endowment, and first of all, it's not an endowment, it's multiple little endowments, an endowment for this professorship or that research. Most of that money is focused on very specific areas

that the donor wanted. That's the first thing. The second thing is a large part of those endowments are used to support students whose families cannot afford to go to the university and are given full scholarships or partial scholarships. For example, every student at Penn who family doesn't make $75,000 or more, right,

is given a full scholarship that's worth $92,000. And that part of the endowment goes to support that. Part of the endowment goes to support other research initiatives, whether we're looking at new historical research, new scientific research, new research in economics. That's a large part of what the endowments do. And we can only use about three to four percent of the value that's accrued every year.

So you might say, oh, it's 50 billion dollars, but 3% of 50 billion dollars is only 1.5 billion dollars and that's to support a very, very large organization at Harvard. Yeah. Well the Trump administration says that it is yanking money from many of these universities, though not from all of them, because of what it sees as a failure to combat anti-Semitism on campuses. Why can't the federal government use funding as leverage to address anti-Semitism? First of all, you're taking funding from cancer research because you claim that they're not combating anti-Semitism enough. That's not, if you're Jewish, that's not going to be a

good look and that's not going to be something that is going to be favorable. The second thing I would say is they're not related, and they're not... You're putting pressure on the university doesn't mean that they're not addressing anti-Semitism. The important thing is to hold them accountable for anti-Semitism by holding them accountable for anti-Semitism. What they're doing to combat that on campus. I agree. Not all of our universities did a great job

on anti-Semitism. I think that's a fig leaf for what they're really trying to do, which is bring down universities. That is Dr. Zeke Emanuel of the University of Pennsylvania. Thank you so much for speaking with us. Thank you, Elsa. And before we wrap up, a thank you to our NPR Pennsylvania. Thank you so much for speaking with us. Thank you, Elsa. And before we wrap up, a thank you to our NPR Plus supporters who hear each show without sponsored messages and of course who help protect independent journalism. If you are

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