Trump's Trials - With a jury seated, safety is now a top concern in hush money trial

Episode Date: April 19, 2024

For this episode of Trump's Trials, All Things Considered host Ailsa Chang speaks with NPR political reporter Ximena Bustillo and domestic extremism correspondent Odette Yousef.Twelve jurors and six alternates have been selected in former President Donald Trump's hush money trial. The jury is comprised of seven men and five women, all of whom will remain anonymous for security reasons. On Thursday one juror who had been seated for the trial voiced concern that identifying information about her had been in the media. She was dismissed from duty. That brought to light a very real concern — keeping jurors safe and protecting their identities. Topics include:- Jury selection process - Juror privacy - Security measures Follow the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify for new episodes each Saturday.Sign up for sponsor-free episodes and support NPR's political journalism at plus.npr.org/trumpstrials.Email the show at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

It's Trump's Trials from NPR. I'm Scott Detro. This is a persecution. He actually just stormed out of the courtroom. Innocent to proven guilty in a court of law. Our regular episodes come out every Saturday, but there's some news in one of former President Trump's cases today. So we're going to share a story that just aired on NPR, and then we'll be back with more in our usual episode on Saturday.

Thanks for listening. On the It's Been A Minute podcast, we discuss a new documentary, Making Waves, as it looks at the patterns of abuse behind the scenes at Nickelodeon. But my guests say the problem extends throughout all of Hollywood. In Hollywood, actor comes before child. We don't see these kids as real children. Find out what makes child stars especially vulnerable on the It's Been A Minute podcast from NPR.

You're listening to Trump's Trials. I'm Scott Detro. And now here's Elsa Chang. There was a disturbing scene outside the Manhattan courthouse today where the hush money trial of former President Trump is being held. A person reportedly self-immolated in a park. So far, there is no suggestion of a motive directly related to the trial. But inside the courthouse, jury selection did conclude. Twelve jurors have been picked along with six alternates. And as the high

profile case moves forward, the court is grappling with an issue that has become a regular and concerning feature of Trump's many trials, and that is the safety of the jury. For more, we're joined now by NPR domestic extremism correspondent Odette Youssef and NPR political reporter Jimena Bustillo, who has been in the courthouse today. Hi to both of you. Hey there. So Jimena, I want to start with you. Now that the jury has been selected, what can you tell us about what it was like inside the courtroom? Well, it's really such an unusual sight. You have everyday New Yorkers in the same room as a former US president waiting to see

if they're going to be responsible for his fate. The first thing that the judge has been asking is if they believe that they cannot be fair and impartial. And if they raise their hands, they are then excused. The jurors then go one by one reading out their answers to a lengthy questionnaire about their history, education, occupation, and their potential connections to Trump, such as attending a campaign event. These got really specific.

Jurors have disclosed prior criminal history, family traumas, and favorite pastimes in front of Trump and everyone else. Throughout this process, Trump turns to look at the jurors, and he's often leaning over to talk to his lawyers in this process too. Wow, what a fascinating dynamic there. And the lawyers are not allowed to ask about things

that are not covered on the questionnaire, right? Well, actually they are. The Trump legal team has been spending time asking prospective jurors about their social media histories. One was dismissed because her husband's posts about Trump dating back to 2016 were critical of the former president. And another was asked to read social media posts

from also years ago that called Trump a racist, sexist, narcissist, again, in front of the former president. These were not selected. Trump's lawyer also asked jurors to detail their opinions and literal feelings about him. And again, this is a more intimate dynamic with a very incredibly powerful man.

The questioning process has gotten emotional as potential jurors can be heard tearing up as they admit that they're nervous and don't know if they can be impartial even after agreeing so earlier in the process. Sounds so stressful. Odette, you've looked at what it can mean to serve on a jury for a Trump trial, like the safety concerns, the repercussions personally. Tell us what you're finding. So Elsa, the challenge here is that jurors need to feel that their privacy and safety

are not at risk when they serve. But the court also needs to maintain some transparency to court proceedings so that there's public faith in the process. And finding that sweet spot is challenging. And it's been especially hard in the Trump trials. And that's because Donald Trump owns a social media platform, Elsa. And so you know we've seen this pattern, a correlation, where when he posts criticism about specific people or processes what follows are threats. And this has already been

happening in this case. Judge Murchon's own daughter has been at the receiving end of harassment. And I've spoken to some people, including a former juror on a trial involving a Trump affiliate, who've been just stunned that there haven't been more protective measures set up at the outset of this trial, given what's happened in the past. Here is Juliette Kayyem. She's a former national security official. She says at this point, courts should be expecting Trump to complain about the proceedings and that some of his followers may respond in violent ways. It feels like we're sort of sleepwalking into 2024. It's just our democratic institutions

that used to have these norms. But those norms no longer are holding and we have to accept that and prepare with the expectation that violence or the threat of violence is going to be part of our democratic processes at least for the short term. Well Jimena, is the court doing anything to protect these jurors? Well this is supposed to be an anonymous jury. They're largely only identified by numbers. And I stood in the hallway for the first two days to keep an eye on when a former President Trump would come out to talk.

And every time, security required us to cover up cameras and point them at walls when the jury was coming through. And I had to be careful that I wasn't angling my phone in a way that could be perceived as me taking a photo. But there are still highly detailed questions being asked, right, about things like current and prior employers. And those answers were not sealed at the time. So on Thursday, one selected juror actually said that reports in the media revealed enough identifying information about her that she said

some friends and family knew it was her, and she was dismissed after originally being selected. Another juror who was also excused Thursday morning after being selected voiced quote, annoyance at how much information had been publicized about him, though we don't know exactly why he was excused. Judge Juan Roshon requested that members of the press not publish potentially identifying information such as physical characteristics or personal information. Well I am curious, Odette, if these so-called norms don't seem to be holding right now, how are you seeing that play out? You know, there was a policy paper also released earlier this year by the National Conference

of State Court Administrators that identified juror safety and well-being among the top issues that need to be addressed these days. And that's not just for the Trump trials. You know, someone with the organization mentioned the Kyle Rittenhouse trial, Derek Chauvin's trial, trials of people in Trump's orbit. We are in a moment now in the US where norms have shifted. People who are civically involved, whether it be in trials, in election administration, on school boards, you name it, are now increasingly targeted with violence or the threat of violence, and that's a reality that won't reverse itself overnight. And it chills democratic participation.

So people who can should be thinking about safety of these people in ways they may not have had to consider before. — That is MPR's Odette Youssef and Jimena Bustillo. Thank you to both of you. — Thank you. — Thanks for listening to Trump's Trials from NPR. Keep an eye out for more episodes like this whenever big news happens and we'll be back later this week with our rake of the

show on Saturday. I'm Scott Detro.