Trump's Trials - Witness describes 'catch and kill' scheme to help Trump's 2016 campaign

Episode Date: April 23, 2024

For this episode of Trump's Trials, All Things Considered host Mary Louise Kelly speaks with political reporter Ximena Bustillo.David Pecker, former publisher for the National Enquirer, took the stand for a second day of testimony. Pecker explained that starting in 2015 he, Michael Cohen and Donald Trump had a deal that involved the National Enquirer buying negative stories about Trump and never publishing them – an arrangement also known as 'catch and kill.' Pecker said this was done to help Trump with his 2016 campaign. In addition, he described planting negative stories about Trump's 2016 rivals, such as the Clintons, then presidential candidate Ted Cruz and other Republican front runners. The prosecution also argued that Trump violated the gag order placed on him at least 11 times in recent weeks. They cited posts on Truth Social and comments Trump made outside the courtroom about potential witness Michael Cohen and the jury. The judge has yet to make a ruling. Topics include:- Gag order - Catch and kill deal - What's next Follow the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify for new episodes each Saturday.Sign up for sponsor-free episodes and support NPR's political journalism at plus.npr.org/trumpstrials.Email the show at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

It's Trump's Trials from NPR. I'm Scott Detro. We love Trump! This is a persecution. He actually just stormed out of the courtroom. We love him! Innocent to proven guilty in a court of law. Today was day two of witness testimony in Donald Trump's hush money trial. And once again, David Pecker, former publisher of the National Enquirer, took the stand.

Pecker spent the day explaining how he, Michael Cohen, and Trump came up with a, quote, catch and kill operation in the lead up to the 2016 presidential campaign. Pecker said he would buy negative stories about Trump and then bury them in order to help Trump's campaign efforts. The prosecution also argued that Trump violated the gag order imposed by the judge in New York at least 11 times in recent weeks. They cited posts on truth, social, and comments made to the media outside of the courtroom. The judge listened to the arguments but did not make a ruling today.

Stick around and we will dive into all of the details with our reporter in the courthouse. We are now two days deep into former President Trump's criminal trial in New York. Today's testimony wrapped with the first witness still on the stand, David Pecker. He's former CEO of American Media. That's the company that publishes the National Enquirer tabloid. And Piers Jimena Bustillo has been in the courthouse. Hey there, Jimena. Hey there. What have we learned so far from David Pecker and his testimony? And Piers Jimena Bustillo has been in the courthouse. Hey there, Jimena. Hey there.

What have we learned so far from David Pecker and his testimony? Well, Pecker has known Trump for decades. And while on the stand, he testified to how he knew Donald Trump back when he was just working in celebrity media. And Trump was a very well-known American celebrity and real estate mogul.

He also testified to being called into a meeting with Trump and Michael Cohen, Trump's former fixer, in August of 2015. In this meeting, he said that he was asked how he could help the Trump campaign, and he said that he agreed to use his magazine to do three things. First, publish positive stories about Trump. Second, publish negative stories about Trump's opponents. And third, he said that he could be the eyes and ears of the campaign, meaning that if

he heard that there could be negative stories about Trump, he would notify Michael Cohen, especially stories coming from women. And I'll note the timing of that, August of 2015. So right before the election year of 2016, the implication being these would be stories that might damage the Trump campaign? Yes, that's correct. So the prosecution is laying the groundwork that alleges that some of these stories could hurt Trump's efforts to win over voters during that 2016 campaign.

And Pecker testified to learning about several stories, including allegations of affairs from Playboy model Karen McDougal, and he testified to reporting these stories to Cohen. During today's testimony, we also saw some emails and documents arranging the payment for buying these stories from the sources. Okay, so there is no testimony. Tomorrow the trial resumes. Thursday, who is next to testify? Well, Pecker is not done testifying, so we will continue to hear from him, but other witnesses for the prosecution are expected to be Michael Cohen and Keith Davidson, a former lawyer for McDougall, and Stormy Daniels, the adult film star that has often

been connected with this case. She's expected to be a possible witness, as could be Karen McDougall. The prosecution, though, has not been providing a list of witnesses in advance, citing a concern that Trump will go after them despite a gag order prohibiting from doing so. Yeah, stay with the gag order for a minute because the judge here, Judge Juan Marshawn, he also heard arguments today about whether Trump has already violated it. How did that go? Yeah, so today this morning before even witness testimony began, Juan Marshawn heard arguments about a potential gag order violation. So last week during jury selection, prosecutors argued

that Trump had violated a gag order that prohibits him from making comments about witnesses and jurors. Specifically, they took issue with three posts made on Trump's social media platform, Truth Social. Now this morning, prosecutors brought up seven more posts across Truth Social and that were also posted on Trump's campaign website. These were posts that in some instant reposted articles discrediting Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels. Another was a post that quoted a Fox News host who accused potential jurors of being

quote undercover liberal activists. Prosecutors asked Mershawn to impose a $10,000 penalty and asked them to be removed and warned Trump that incarceration is an option for violating the order. Now, Trump's lawyer argued that Trump was simply defending himself. Now, Mershon has not issued an order yet, but he did seem impatient with Trump's team, at one point warning that they were losing credibility when they kept insisting that Trump is just trying to be careful with the order. It's NPR's Jimena Bustillo out on the streets there in New York City where she is tracking this Trump trial. Thanks, Jimena.

Thank you. Thanks for listening to Trump trial. Thanks, Amina. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Trump's Trials from NPR. Keep an eye out for more episodes like this whenever big news happens. And we'll be back later this week with our regular show on Saturday. I'm Scott Detro. Hey, I hear you have a birthday coming up. Yeah, you. If you're listening to this, that means you have a birthday coming up eventually.

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