Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash - #109 Victoria Devine On Miscarriage, Birth Rules & Family Finance

Episode Date: December 1, 2024

Victoria Devine hosts the wildly successful podcast She's On The Money, is the author of several books, the founder of Zella Money, and is the mother of 8-month-old Harvey.  Victoria shares her experience of having two miscarriages and the impact it had on her physical and mental health before ultimately giving birth to her baby boy.  As she prepared for her son's arrival, Victoria outlined her list of requirements for visitors who wanted to meet the newborn. As a finance expert, Victoria also shares her thoughts on two big parent money questions:  What is the biggest financial mistake that parents make for their kids? What is the one financial thing that parents or expecting parents should be doing?   Buy Business Bible by Victoria Devine here  https://www.penguin.com.au/books/the-business-bible-9781761347740  2025 Raunchy Ranch Calendar IS OUT NOW!  https://budgysmuggler.com.au/products/two-doting-dads-raunchy-ranch  Buy our book, which is now available in-store! https://www.penguin.com.au/books/two-doting-dads-9781761346552  If you need a shoulder to cry on:  Two Doting Dads Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/639833491568735/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheTwoDotingDads  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/twodotingdads/  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@twodotingdads  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ashton, the lovely, the gorgeous Victoria Devine. She is best known as the host of the widely successful podcast, She's on the Money, which we actually filled in on a number of months ago. Yes, that was the episode I got flack for not throwing my kids birthday parties. Yes, correct. She's also the founder of Zella Money, a mortgage-breaking business and the author of several books, Matthew. That's right. I said several, which includes her most recent cover, Business Bible. But most importantly, she is the mom of eight-month-old Harvey. Yes. Victoria shares

her experience of what led up to her pregnancy with the little boy that includes two miscarriages along the way. Yeah, she gives us a glimpse into what it must feel like for the one and four women who have to go through child loss. She also shares a list of requirements given to her visitors wanting to meet her newborn in hospital, I'm assuming. Which should ruffle one or two feathers out there, Ash. As a finance expert, Victoria also shares her thoughts on two big parenting money questions. Shall we get into it, big boy?

Absolutely. Welcome back to Two Doting Dads and One Doting Mum. I am Matty J. I'm Ash. And I am Victoria. And this is a podcast all about parenting. It is the good, it is the bad. And the relatable. And we always say no advice.

However, Victoria, if there's anyone who was ever gonna give any type of advice on this podcast, I believe it would be you. Probably, yeah, you're probably right. Thank you, but like more financial advice? A bit of everything we're hoping for, but financial first and foremost. Parenting advice is fickle. You guys are brave.

Mainly because sometimes every now and then we'll talk about something that's medical and we always just say, look, we're not the experts. We'll get the diagnosis, the name, everything completely wrong. So just if anyone is out there. Just take this with a grain of salt and pretend that we're at the pub having a chat. Take it like that. One time we did like, we were trying to figure out how to do a pregnancy test. I was like, don't you just dip it in? You dip it in the toilet bowl. Pee on it. Well, we weren't sure if it was like...

If there's different sorts of ways to do it. We thought it might be like a tea bag scenario in the toilet bowl. Once you pee in the toilet... Your face says it all. Your face says it all. No. And Victoria, we would like to know. Yes.

Ash and I were talking about what a younger Victoria would have been like. And we, I think we both agreed that you would have been someone who I think would have been school captain. Oh yeah, yeah. Ducks. I didn't get ducks. Let's go back and get it. I didn't. I didn't. But you won't be surprised to you that my boyfriend at the time did. Oh, hell a couple.

It was a thing. I was so envious. Did you dump him after? Yeah, I mean, at some point I did. How dare you? At some point I did, but yeah, younger Victoria, she, do you know what? She's exactly what you thought she was.

Wow, good call. She's exactly, like she was debating team captain. I did mathematics like. What's mathematics? Oh, what? It's obviously like the rocker Stenford for maths. I thought it would be like you run 100 meters and someone's like 606 and you just give it the numbers. I would die under that pressure.

I thought that's what it was. OK. No, she's she's exactly what you thought she would be. You're someone to me who just exudes confidence. That's very kind because it's not true. It's not true. It is a very... It's the mathematics.

Yeah, it's the mathematics. It's the fake it till you make it vibe. Oh, I'm an anxious girl. I don't believe you at all. You say that, but like my anti-anxiety medication gets in my head. Mix it with a coffee and it's all good. Did you trip up at all?

Yeah, did you get any into any trouble? Surely. Do you know what? I was a goody two shoes, honestly. Like I, like my parents always like, you were a goody two shoes. Your sister on the other hand, like she made up for it.

I mean, I won't go on and on because I don't know how much she would like that, but we had to call the police. My dad, my own dad called the police to my own sister's 16th birthday. Wow. Because why? There were teenagers jumping over the back fence. A Project X sort of... Yeah, like just very, very interesting.

My sister had said to my parents, oh, it's my 16th birthday. Can we just have like a barbecue at home and dad, you like do a barbecue. And my dad was like, wholesome, great, like you're gonna invite some friends. And Alex was like, yeah, mom's like, do you wanna send out invites? Alex was like, nah, I like, we're gonna send out invites and then-

Word of mouth, people were- Yeah, then like the cops came and kinda had to escort a lot of people out of the house. My parents had to replace the carpet in the front room. Like- Holy shit, were you at home at the time? Yeah, it was a great party. You were like, got off scot-free.

Thanks for making me look so good, Alex. So did you know then from an early age what you wanted to be when you grew up? No, no. I thought when I feel like I put a lot of pressure on myself because I am very academic. Like I love a study and that's not something that lots of people can resonate with. Like I just love learning. I also have ADHD. I have been diagnosed since I was like 18, I think I got diagnosed in Medicare. You're an OG.

Yeah. And I used to be so embarrassed of it. That's horrible. That sounds. No, but I used to be so embarrassed of it. Like I would lie through my teeth. Like I used to take my medication, pop it out of all of the like medication things and put it in a Panadol container in my handbag.

Because I was so scared that someone would see that I was taking dexamphetamine and be like, she's crazy. She's crazy. How does it feel now that all these diagnoses coming out? I'm so relieved. I'm so relieved because you know, as somebody with ADHD, you like see it in other people and you're like, you're a bit the same, hey? Are you looking at me specifically? No, no, but like you kind of look at someone and go, I see a lot of me in you. I get it. And then they go, I've got ADHD. And I'm like, whoa, I'm so surprised.

I started the test and then I was like, this is just going to take too long. I got distracted. Unless you're really struggling, like the diagnosis process nowadays, really arduous. So anyway, loved studying and I thought I wanted to be a doctor and then decided that's probably not for me, wanted to do psychology. Why was it not for you do you think? The part where like blood and stuff. With you, 100%. That's why I'm not a doctor either. It's like a mechanic, he doesn't. Yeah. It's like a mechanic who doesn't like oil.

It's never gonna work. Ew, that's really. And then I went to psychology, did psychology, got into like a child psychology internship. And this was in the last year of my degree before honors. And I thought, this is gonna be great. Like I have done it. And I was so proud of myself

because that was like one of the hardest internships to secure. I love a flex. I'm like, oh, I got the best one. Thank you, mom. Anyway, got that and I hated it. After two weeks, I was like crying. I hate it. Like the idea that you can't pick up kids

and take them home and take them out of their situation. I was like, hold on. You're telling me that psychology is about helping people deal with their situations, not fixing it? Like I'm a fixer. Like I'm that person that you come to for advice and I'm like, right, whether you want this or not, this is what you're going to need to do. And then I'm not offended if you don't do it, I get it.

But I'm always going to go into solution mode. So didn't like that. Had a midlife crisis during university and was like, where's my career going? And realized through some careers counseling at uni that there was this thing called organisational psychology, which is the science of people at work. So you could do psychology, but for like CEOs and leaders and help them develop into better leaders and like manage people properly. And I thought kind of like a life coach.

Kind of, but like you actually have a degree. Yes. Yes, it's crazy. Oh, that was upset the life coaches. You just, you don't just put it in your bio. Yeah. I'm gonna put it in my bio from now on. Please do, it's working.

Anyway, did that for a while and started to learn about finance, got myself into a whole heap of debt and needed to work that out and realize that there was a lot of power in money. Because of studies or? I wish I could be like, oh yeah, of course it was like student debt. No, I bought a car and then I went to France and then I went all around Europe and then I had a really good wardrobe. So many nice shoes.

Yeah. It's all about experience too though. Oh, live, love, laugh. But I... On a credit card? Oh no, go hard. I got a personal loan. Oh no.

Yeah. So my dad's an accountant and I hid that from him, obviously. He would have seen the signs though. Yeah, there were signs. Where did you get this car from? I found it. I come here in France get this car from? I found it.

How come you're in France and this car is still here and you've got a brand new wardrobe full of shoes? I don't know. I don't know. Came home from France with $40,000 worth of personal debt and realized... You're like willing your sister to have another birthday party. I was like, I probably should do something about this. But for a long time buried my head in the sand. I hated the idea of it. Was really embarrassed of it. I was like, I probably should do something about this. But for a long time buried my head in the sand.

I hated the idea of it. Was really embarrassed of it. Like, you don't want to tell your mates. And at the time I felt a lot of pressure because I had gone into a very corporate role. So done organizational psychic, honors year, went into this like consultant role. It wasn't a grad role.

And I was like in with all these like big dog 40 year olds who had power suits and like were looking really good. And I'm like, they wasn't a grad role. And I was like in with all these like big dog 40 year olds who had power suits and like were looking really good. And I'm like, they've got their lives together. Like I'm gonna have my life together. And in my head, it was age that gave you life experience. It was age that helped you get your finances sorted. Not the suit.

No, it turns out no. All the drug addictions. But I was just like, oh, like I can do whatever I want because one day I'm gonna be 40 and have a house and do all of those things because it just happens, right? That's very true. It just happens. You've just triggered something there for me

where it's like, I remember thinking like when I was younger that you're like, yeah, I'll have it sorted when I'm older. Yeah, I'll sort it when I'm older. I'll do it when I'm older. And it turns out none of these people had their shit together. And I was like learning more about, you know, them and their personal lives. And like, as a consultant, you

travel a lot. So we're like in lots of hotels and going out for like dinners and stuff. And they'd be talking about their divorces. They'd be talking about, you know, not being able to buy houses. And I remember being like, Oh, I thought that when you got to 45, it was like a rite of passage. You owned a property. You work for one of the big four. What are you talking about? Like, it just, the math wasn't nothing in my head and I realized I probably should sort my own finances out

instead of just paying the minimum repayment on my personal loan. So started to look into that and just found a passion because I realized the power that taking control of your finances could have, it was making me feel better. It made the people around me feel better. I was like going to brunch with my girlfriends being like, OK, so if you looked at your super because like, oh, I don't know if you know this, but if

you don't take control of this now, it's going to cost you like seventy thousand dollars worth of fees over the long term. And like my friends were like, no, I didn't know. You sound exactly like my accountants. Wildly passionate. People are like, just drink the Bloody Mary. What do you think? Yeah, just drink the Bloody Mary. What do you think? Just drink the Kool-Aid.

So yeah, ended up loving finance and kind of one thing led to another. And I realized maybe that's where I should be and sectioned on in. Well, I do have to congratulate you for what you've built. I'm going to call it an empire. Thank you. It doesn't feel like an empire. It feels like a shit show. No, you're just talking about some of your staff. And I'm like, it's very impressive.

We have one staff. That's it. And do you know what? The one staff you've got, I wanted her first. I know. Let's do that. I can teach you a thing about it. I like you guys so you can keep her. Thank you.

During this time when you are building your business, what was your thought process in regards to having kids? I, when I was really young, I'm very maternal. Like I love kids. If you've got babies, please show me your pictures. Like I was always maternal, but I just wasn't sure. Look to your right. I've already stopped. Don't worry. There's a first voter. If you look to your right, you'll see he's the oldest child. No, I just, I wanted kids. I just didn't know how that was gonna happen.

And that was one of the things that was starting to stress me out. So at the same time as being in personal debt, I'd just come out of a really long-term relationship because I was in a relationship for when I was 14 to 22. With the guy who got ducks. Yes. How's that?

We don't like him either anymore. Yeah, out. I mean, he's so lovely, which is so annoying. Isn't that annoying when you're like, yeah, is your ex a dick? No! He also got ducks. He's supposed to be really smart. So I got out of that and was just like finding my feet and was like, you know, when you're 22 and you're just like, it's never going to happen for me. Like you're single and you think you're never gonna meet the love of your life

because you've left it too late. I'm like, so dumb. So dumb. But you know what I mean? It's so dumb. You're just like, what is going on? Anyway. Yeah, I think I was.

Yeah. Okay, boys have a lot of a different mentality. That was on a TV show. Yeah. So I remember being 28 and kind of thinking like the thought of, hey, maybe it won't happen, does pop in every now and then. You're like, oh, is this going to work out? They're really expensive.

That's a lot of commitment. Like I love kids, but like all these people are talking about getting up at 5 a.m. and I'm not a morning person. Is it like, and they're dumb things that now I look back and I'm like, that's so dumb that I was thinking that way. It's definitely like your young mind thinking like. You just extrapolate out catastrophe anyway. So I really wanted kids, but I knew I was really purposeful.

This is going to sound so lame and I'm so happy to share it. But like when I was dating, I would often like go home to my housemate, who was my best friend, still is my best friend. We've had kids at the same time. It's the best. And be like, oh no, he would be a shit dad. Nah. What were some of those red flags that will make you think they'd be a bad pair?

Really irresponsible, like really self-centered. Like just, you know, those things where you're just like, I know that you, like really underlying misogyny, like just thinking that there are gender roles. Like, but you're dating on Tinder. So you're going to get like, I ended up meeting my husband on Tinder. So it's not all bad, but yeah,

I just remember being like, oh, red flags. Do you remember the green flags? Oh, when my husband whipped out photos of his friends' kids and I was like, oh yeah, on the weekend, I was like, look how cute she is. And I was like, oh, okay. By the way, I'm ovulating. And then as time went on, he got nieces and nephews and seeing him with his nieces and nephews, I was like, okay.

When we talk about your husband? You met on Tinder. We did. Classic modern love story. Just give us a little insight to how that went down. So I've got dating rules. So on Tinder, I thought you guys would like this, on Tinder, and I will tell anybody who will listen,

everybody complains, they're like, oh, I never meet the right person online dating because it's so hard. And I'm like, that's because you're not like putting some boundaries in place. I would only go on dates on Monday or Tuesday nights because I'd say we can grab a drink after work because it gives me the ability to like have a drink with you. We all know that I don't mind turning up to work hungover. So, like, if it goes well, I can have a few glasses and some dinner with you and have a nice evening on a Monday. But if it doesn't, I can be like, I've got work really early, so I have to go home and cut it early. Also, the type of person that's willing to go

on a Monday date, they know it's not like a Friday night where they can call you up and be like, you up. Like, it's not like if you're willing to go on a Monday date with me, like you knew it was a glass of wine after work. Like the expectations have been set without me having to articulate them. And so we did that. My husband and I ended up having a whole bottle of wine that night and basically seeing each other every single night for the rest of our lives. But now. So Wednesday night's off the cards.

Do you know what? Wednesday's a good night as well. Probably is now. In my head, especially because when I first started online dating, I'd come out of this long-term relationship and I found that social balance of like dating plus maintaining my friendship groups. And like, if I was going on a date on a Friday night,

I'd be like, oh, I'm not going out with the girls. They're getting espressos after work. And like, I found that by saying, do you know what? I'm only gonna go on first dates. So not all dates, but first dates on Mondays or Tuesdays. That means that the weekends are for the girls. I still have my life balance that I want. My friends aren't being left behind.

And it turns out that I did meet the love of my life. So like that's pretty slight. It's pretty good. With any other rules that we should be aware of? No, no, no. Just like the Monday night, setting some expectations. Like I'm a bit of a rules girl, as you guys know. We will get into some more rules a little bit later.

Yes, we will. Was there any kind of checklist that you wanted to follow? Cause I feel like you are, and I love it. No, I didn't. Not with dating. Oh my gosh. Without having kids though. Because people are often asked-

Like things I wanted to do before. More so like the question of how do I know when I'm ready? So my husband was ready the year that we met. Like he would have had kids. I think I've been very happy to have kids. I mean, we probably would have wanted to like work out a few like semantic things. But I was the one who was like, I really want to get my businesses into a place where I could walk away comfortably. Like if we had gone back three or four years and I had a baby, my businesses would have suffered way too much.

Like they would have absolutely gone to the curb. And I knew that when Steve and I were getting married, we kind of had, you always plan it, right? You're like, I'm going to get married. We're going to do this. We're going to do that. Cause like, I knew that we were going to get engaged. Like, and I know that that's not that romantic.

It was a surprise. I didn't know when or where, but like know that that's not that romantic. It was a surprise. I didn't know when or where, but we'd spoken about marriage. So obviously that was a stare. It was going to happen. And I'm not letting my husband spend that much on a ring without us doing some budgeting. It's me. It's sexy. It's me.

Romantic. So there was a lot that I wanted to do. And in fact, I sold my financial advice business because I knew that I couldn't have so many plates spinning by the time that I wanted to have kids. So I decided to focus on my mortgage-broking business and my podcast and then give away that financial advice business.

So in September, 2022, I sold that. In November, 2022, I got married and the plan was to have babies after that. So did you wanna have like certain financial goals before you started to try to have kids? I definitely wanted to make sure that we had a solid ground. In my head, I wanted to own property.

It was just something that was financially achievable for my husband and I. But I think for me, that was just because I wanted financial security. I also own a mortgage-breaking business and I know that, um, kids- What don't you own? Not my own soul. I also have a kindergarten, primary school. My mortgage-breaking business.

So through that, I know that to get a loan with dependents is going to drop your borrowing capacity. So I was like, I kind of want to secure that before I have loan with dependents is going to drop your borrowing capacity. So I was like, I kind of want to secure that before I have all these dependents. That's good advice. That's solid advice. That meant that I could borrow more money and get the house that we wanted. Can you give your kids back and then go for it? Yeah, it's like, oh no, sorry, the kids didn't come up in the meeting with the broker.

Sorry about that. So I knew I wanted to do that. But for me, I also wanted to have a pretty healthy emergency fund because you never know what's going to happen. Kids are expensive. And birth is expensive, or it can be quite expensive. And you just never know. And like for me, I wasn't sure whether I would take you know, two weeks of maternity leave, or I'd fall in love with this stay at home mum thing and need to take 12 months. So we

really had to plan financially to go with this situation work with that. Because as you guys know, you could plan and then the baby comes near like, this is nothing like we expected. Oh yes. It's not, this isn't what the box said. There's also like this thing online about how people saying,

this is how much it costs to have a baby. Yeah, I got savaged. Like I got so I did a podcast on like my experience and I track everything you guys know I had a spreadsheet. I have a line item of how much I spent on Gaviscon while I was pregnant. How much it was like 380 something. Yeah, There was a lot of Gaviscon. But that's fine. Is that for heartburn? Yeah. It's for heartburn and reflux. Please tell me they ended up like sponsoring your podcast.

No, they didn't call me Gaviscon. Yeah, you owe me. Yeah, I worked hard for that. And Fruit Tingles, they get to be in business, but it's one of those things that you just can't predict one what that pregnancy is going to cost. But it's one of those things that you just can't predict one what that pregnancy is gonna cost. And it could be really low cost. You could go through the public system,

which in Australia is incredible. Or like me, I was like, oh, I have private health. I wanna go through this. But like, I didn't know how much that would cost. And I was a financial advisor, but I didn't realize that, I don't know if it's different in Sydney, but like we had to pay our obstetrician out of pocket. That was like 10 grand. And then on top of that, you have the excess for

the hospital and then the scans on top of that, because it wasn't public, were like $450 each. And like you get what? $70 back of that. And so for us, pregnancy really added up. And I'm very grateful that we had the capacity to pay for that. But at the same time, I'm like, does everybody do this? How are you guys budgeting for this? Cause like, this is insane to me and I'm not complaining, but I'm also like, we need to be better at planning financially because you don't have to do it the way I did it. But wouldn't it be nice that if something's hitting the fan, you have the cashflow available to go and have a lot more peace of mind if we went

and just got another ultrasound. Like I'd just be able to sit here at night. And I want people to have that flexibility. A lot of people that can't afford to do that and they're not aware of. Yeah, you just don't know your options either if you don't do enough research into your finances. Cause the more you research into,

well, what would this cost? You're like, oh, that cost came out. I didn't realize that might be part of it. And why do I have this? And it's kind of like working backwards. I don't know if there's any other complications that happen after birth as well. It's kind of like, well, you've just spent all this money

trying to do things at the safest and the most peace of mind, but then anything could happen, right? You can't control it. And like, that's exactly what happened. I was so hippy dippy. I spent so much money on acupuncture in the lead up to birth. And I saw this gorgeous birth physio.

She was a midwife and a physio. And we did all of these like opening up your hips massages and stuff. And I ended up in an emergency caesarean. So that was money well spent. Of course, of course. Our birth plan goes out the window. Absolutely. Who is she?

We don't know her. We want to talk about your pregnancies. Yes. Of course, our birth plan goes out the window. Absolutely, yeah. Who is she? We don't know her. We want to talk about your pregnancies. Yes. And we spoke before we started recording about your miscarriage. Yes. And I want to know what was it like leading up to your first miscarriage after you had been pregnant?

Was it 12 weeks? Yeah. So we lost our first pregnancy at 10 weeks so we lost our first pregnancy at 10 weeks and we lost our second pregnancy at 12 weeks. And we still don't know why. So like there's obviously no reason why, but like, let's be honest, it was really shit. It was shit for me, it was shit for my husband.

The first time though, I don't know how much do you want me to get into it, but like I found out that I was miscarrying because I was bleeding. And that's obviously a really stressful period of time. I was so excited though, because like I'd wanted babies for so long. Found out I was pregnant. I told everybody, like I had told every man it is dog. Like, I can't keep a secret to save my life. So if you've got them, don't tell them to me because I will yapp.

I just can't. I'm just so excited about it. How long have you been trying for before you were pregnant? We were really lucky. We got pregnant really quickly. So our first pregnancy, it turns out when I went on my honeymoon, which was we got married and then there was a few weeks and then we went on a honeymoon

because work life balance out the window. It turns out we tried on our honeymoon but I was actually already pregnant. So that was really good. So he had his best go before then. Yeah, what a man. Well done. Good job, Steve Goldstar.

So that was really surprising because I, for my whole life, had period issues and like, you know, lots of like women issues that meant I just assumed it was gonna be really hard. And it happened really quickly and I was like, wow, this is magic. This is really cool. I was a bit anxious because I hadn't started like taking the prenatals and stuff and like you want to do all of the right things. And so yeah, I went to a work event and found that I was bleeding and was like, oh. Did you feel? No, I felt fine. Like everything was hunky dory. I did have pretty bad morning sickness,

but like in my head, that was like a good thing, right? Like that's a sign of a sticky, good pregnancy. And yeah, I was bleeding and did a bit of Googling and had convinced myself that was actually okay, because it was only a little bit. And then I went home and it just got worse and worse. And I ended up in emergency with my husband. And yeah, they let us know that that wasn't viable.

And then that in itself is a bit of a circus because you get there. And I at that point, I knew what was happening. Like you can't- That amount of blood. That amount of blood, that situation, like it was stressful because emergency, obviously, I'm not gushing blood out of my arm. I don't need stitches. I'm not the priority. I get it. But like your baby at that point, nothing could feel more urgent.

So it just felt like they were moving at snail's pace. And then they lost my blood work three times. Oh, my fucking God. So like we'd gone into emergency straight after my work event. So I was like, maybe they're from 2 p.m. till 5 a.m. and they kept losing the blood work. And I kept saying, I know what's happening. Can I just go home?

And they were like, no, I'm really sorry. We need to actually like make sure this isn't an ectopic pregnancy, because if it is, we need to do surgery and all of that other stuff. So you're just sitting in limbo in an emergency with some dude beside you complaining about his toe. And you're just like, this is not the moment. So that happened and it was really bad

because I came home and then had to tell everybody that that had happened and it wasn't. I'm the type of person where, yeah, that was devastating. I was so upset, but I'm also really pragmatic. If it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be. And I'm a bit hippie dippy, so I'm very much, okay, cool, like I have also really pragmatic. If it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be. And I'm a bit hippie-dippy, so I'm very much, okay, cool, like I have a son, Harvey, now. And I'm very much of the opinion that his little soul

was destined for me and those other previous babies, they had the same soul, that body just didn't work. And that really has helped me be like, no, like, in the moment, it feels like your world is ending. But now I'm like, okay, cool, like that was just part of the journey for me to get Harvey. Like it's not good, but that's part of the journey, right? I try and remember we had a really similar scenario.

Laura miscarried in a similar way that she found out by bleeding and it didn't stop. And I'm trying to think back to how we managed the emotional whiplash of thinking you're pregnant one second to then finding you've lost it over the next. And it's like all your hopes and dreams have been wished, like I've just been ripped away. Yeah. You can't help but imagine, you know, life as a parent, you know, like changing your

baby's nappy, like going to the park, you know, as you're thinking about this pregnancy, you look at other families and everything around you is just all baby, baby, baby. How do you digest the news? I, I, I, I gaslit myself a lot. So I was like, it's fine. These things happen. It's one in four. Like all of that stuff that you hear. I didn't really know anybody with it.

When I started to share that I had been through it, though, people would be like, oh, us too. And I'd be like, sorry, what? Yeah. What do you mean? Like, you know, I'd talk to someone like you, Matt. And you'd be like, yeah, we went through that. I'd be like, sorry, what? What do you mean? Like, you know, I'd talk to someone like you, Matt, and you'd be like, yeah, we went through that. I'd be like, sorry, what? Like, when, how?

Like, what happened? What did you do? And so it was nice to talk about it. I did feel awkward talking about it. Cause like, you know, I might pop on into a podcast recording with someone and I haven't seen you guys in ages. And you might go, how's the pregnancy?

And I'd have to be like, oh, I'm gonna make this really awkward for you. And I think that I'm one of those people that I don't want to make it awkward for you. So I'd be like, I'm really sorry, but I'm okay. But also this happened and that was, I hated delivering the news that it wasn't there, which is why I waited with my second and then third pregnancy so long to tell people, not because I was waiting for that 12 weeks, but I just, I didn't want to tell someone something to then have to make it awkward to bring it back up. I don't know, it was, it was an interesting period of time, but I definitely gaslit myself into being like, it's fine, this happens a lot. I was heartbroken. But like, I probably didn't process it the way that I would, which is why the second time it happened, it was way worse.

After that, the thought of falling pregnant again, the anxiety around that. Oh, so stressed. And I'm really lucky. I get pregnant very quickly, which is so nice. And so many people struggle with that. And that made me feel guilty again, because I was like, this is, you know, that's the easy bit for me. And so many people struggle and like, we all struggle with different things.

But I remember getting pregnant probably the month after our miscarriage. And it was an accident. We weren't not trying, we knew we wanted babies. But I just didn't think it would happen that quickly. And then I found out I was pregnant and I was elated but terrified. Like I just cried for like three days

because I was so scared of what would happen. And I called my doctor and I was like, what can I do? How can I make it sticky? Like what, how do I not lose this baby? And he was like- Did you have the same morning sickness again? Same thing. That's how I found out. Cause I felt really off and I was like, haven't like tried yet. And so I felt really off and took a pregnancy test elated, but terrified. And my doctor was like, no, like it's so rare for it to happen a second time. Like less than 1% of people experience recurrent miscarriage.

And I'm like, okay, all right. Like that made me feel a little bit better. I wasn't as anxious as my third pregnancy, but like this second one fine was going so well. Like because we had had a loss, we'd booked in really early with our obstetrician. And I had like a six-week scan and eight-week scan and ten-week scan, like, and I got to see this baby all the time. And then we went to our 12-week scan and she had to say, I'm really sorry, but there's no heartbeat.

And I had a missed miscarriage, which is where you don't know that you're not pregnant anymore and the baby passed away. And so we whipped down the hallway to another like ultrasound clinic because they have to like double check and make sure that the first one was right and they confirmed it and they said, you can go home. I said, what? They said, you can go home like and see if you naturally miss Carrie.

We'll call you in a couple of days and see how you're going. I mean, my OB was very empathetic. She was very kind. But you're like, what do you mean I just go home? You just told me that I'm not pregnant anymore. I'm still so full of morning sickness. I'm so like, what do you mean? I feel pregnant.

Like, OK. So I go home and I wait and I wait. And nothing happened. She'd call every day and be home and I wait and I wait and nothing happened. She'd call every day and be like, how are you feeling? Has anything happened? And I'd be like, no, because in a lot of those situations, an OB will pick it up or your doctor will pick it up. And then you will just start bleeding at home and things will progress naturally. It didn't for me. And so I had to go in for a D and C and like go into hospital, do all of that. What's a DNC sorry?

So it's a I can't even remember it's a something in cure edge it's basically where they perform a medical procedure to remove the baby and like all of which is really stressful because obviously no one wants to go through that. In addition to that you've got all of this doubt like what if they're wrong what if I'm going into this surgery? Like, this surgery is real final. Like, they're going to take the baby out. What if they were wrong and they just couldn't say that?

So the anxiety of going into that was really awful. And I just remember that's when I really... So I wasn't as anxious that pregnancy, because I was like, my doctor said it was only one percent chance. The idea of getting pregnant a third time. Yeah. That wasn't as anxious that pregnancy because I was like, my doctor said it was only 1% chance. But the idea of getting pregnant a third time, that wasn't very fun. When you were in recovery following your second miscarriage, I'm assuming there's no silver bullet to something that you would do to try and make the situation easier for yourself and for your partner.

But do you remember, was there anything that really helped you? Oh my God, yes. It was the nurse. I was actually telling Zara, my assistant, about this literally yesterday, where it grilled, obviously talking about my miscarriage, which is very normal for me.

As you do. As you do. And I remember it didn't really hit me. Like you go through the motions, right? Like a doctor tells you, you're going to go into hospital at this time, going to check in, whatever, real clinical. Like I'm not crying or anything, I'm not upset.

Wasn't until they started going, all right, we're gonna take you down to surgery. And they like put the sides of the bed up. And I was hysterical. Like I, it was uncontrollable. And there was this gorgeous nurse. And she like grabbed my hand and was stroking my hand. And she's like,

I will just be here like because my husband couldn't come into surgery with me. And so like he walked all the way. But anyway, she was holding my hand and she was stroking it and being like, oh, it's okay. I've been here and it gets better. I promise it's okay. And she was like the most wholesome person in the entire world. And I just remember it was like, I don't need you to tell me I'm gonna be okay but the empathy of somebody just being like this is really fucking shit I'm really sorry you

are making the right decision like it like just validating what I'm going through like I don't need someone to go we went through that and what happened was and like I just don't have the mental capacity for that right now but could you kind of just coddle me and make sure that I feel so cared about? And she did. And in a very full circle moment, I ended up having an emergency caesarean at the same hospital that I had my DNC performed at.

And I again was quite upset because I had this like natural birth plan, right? Like I was going to, I was going to raw dog birth. Like, wow, I was gonna to raw dog birth. I was going to be the best birthing lady ever. And I was just really upset that I was going down into this emergency cesarean. I felt really out of control. And as you have probably learned, I don't like being out of control. That was not a situation I loved. And the same woman was in. I lost it. I lost it.

Did she remember you? Yeah. Yeah. And I saw her and when you're going into a caesarean, I don't know how it works at other hospitals, but you get like taken into the surgery and they say to your husband or your birthing partner, wait out there. We're just going to get everything set up and they move you onto the bed and like get the little.

You hear the one, two, three... Yeah, yeah, so you can hear that but you can't see me and my, we separated for a bit and then you get invited back into the room once everything's ready for the surgery. I thought they dropped my wife. That's because I heard the bang. Look after us! Was she alright? Didn't get dropped? Amazing! Yeah, not that I know anything. Yeah, Steve comes back in. I'm hysterical because I'm just like, this is meant to be like there's this beautiful

woman and she helped my hand again while I had Harvey, which was really cool. But that felt really full circle. That is fucking crazy. It's insane. It's insane. Also amazing that she remembered you because our midwife, I saw her at the shops maybe like a few months after we'd given birth and I was like, hey! And she didn't have any idea who I was. I was like, that's right, she must do that every day.

My husband did humble me after because I was like, oh my god, it was amazing, I need to find out her name. And he's like, how did she remember you? You must have been real hysterical. Thanks, honey. Amazing, Doug. Just the anxiety with Harvey of just like trying to make sure that nothing was gonna go wrong, but it's so out of your control. It's just so freaking scary.

It's terrifying. And I just kept in my head during Harvey's pregnancy, which for our third pregnancy, our obstetrician recommended that I started taking progesterone and like a few other things to hopefully help. And I don't know if it worked, but that pregnancy worked. So like the second I find out I'm pregnant again one day, I will be running for the progesterone because in my head that worked.

But I remember thinking that milestones were going to help my mental health. So I'd be like, right, once we hit 12 weeks and we get to that scan and it's all good, it's going to be fine. And then it wasn't. And I was so anxious. And I don't believe that I enjoyed that pregnancy at all because every time I thought about it, I was anxious. I ended up with preeclampsia.

So I was calling the hospital every day with my blood pressure and just like, it was just a bit of an experience. But I remember 14 weeks. I was like, surely at 14 weeks. Because like, that's pretty legit. Yeah. I'll be fine. No. Maybe 20 weeks. Maybe when you hit halfway. No. Maybe when I hit 23 and like, I reach that, you know, they say it's viable, a viable program. Maybe that will make me feel good. Because if something happens, like they will go into like, I see, or like, near natal care or whatever. Nothing helped. It was when I had him in my arms and I'm like, we actually did it.

Like, we didn't mess it up. Like, what do you mean? That was when I started to be like, oh, this is really real. But it did feel quite abstract because I think you also go into protecting yourself a little bit by being like, I'm going to distance myself from this baby a little bit, which then made me stressed. I'm like, am I not forming the right bond with this baby? And so it was an experience, I suppose. And then what was the newborn phase like? I mean, you're kind of almost still the newborn phase because you're only eight months now, which is wild. He's such a chunky boy. Like he's like 13 kilos at eight months.

With my kids, like five and a half, he weighs like 15 kilos. I can't, I can't. He's so big, he's in like 18 month old clothing at eight. He's like a little, I'll show you a photo after his little pumba. I love it. It's a bit of a flex when you get a big kid.

Yeah, yeah. He's a big boy. I can't put him in his carrier. I look novel carrying him. Like, oh, like getting him in and out of the car. I can't put him in his carrier. I look novel carrying him. Like, oh, like getting him in and out of the car. I'm like, ugh. Were there any parts that you found really difficult? A few.

I think going from being so career-orientated to being a mum where I'm home all the time, I really struggled with because I felt like, what am I meant to do with my hands when he's asleep? Like, what am I supposed to do? I also really struggled with breastfeeding. That never worked for me. From being in the hospital, it was painful, it was hard. My son had a tongue tie that we ultimately had to get cut,

which was okay, but then once he was feeding properly, I think it was a bit too late. So I went on the medication to increase my milk supply and all that did was make me put on seven kilos, which didn't impact my mental health at all. But it's one of those things that that didn't work, but I was so like, I have to breastfeed, like I have to. Why?

I don't know. There's so much pressure, but I'm a really logical person. So if you came to me and said, I'm struggling breastfeeding, first thing I do is be like, you know, you could just use formula. But then the pressure you put on yourself to like be this stereotypical mom, you're just like, but I have to, I have to try. And so I was trying and trying and I was crying. My boobs were cracked. My son was not putting on weight. The maternal health nurse was consistently like, hey, we need to do formula top-ups.

And I was like, okay, we can, but I'm trying so hard. And I was doing what's called triple feeding, where you feed the baby from the breast. You then feed them with a bottle and pump. And it killed me. Like, it was a circus. I feel like once I finished that and put him to sleep, I was cleaning pumps and bottles and then going back to do it again around the clock.

And it just, my milk supply never increased. And I think that pressure to breastfeed. And it was so easy for so many women in my mother's group. And I remember looking at them being like, why can't I be like, I felt bad pulling a Formula bottle out of the pram. And like, you shouldn't. No, no way. And now he's 100% Formula and we've never been happier.

And what the hell was I doing to myself? Clearly he hasn't been happier. He is thriving. It's crazy this, yeah, the expectation, I think that mums put on themselves, like you were saying, like if someone came to you and said, my baby's not latching, you'd be like, well, just try some formula. And it's so easy to just say that. And I get that you would probably have other mums that when you were struggling, you were

like actually really struggling mentally with the whole thing. And it's the mental thing. It's not even like, yeah, breastfeeding physically wasn't happening well, but it's the pressure, it's the anxiety, it's the feeling like a shit mom. And does that make you a shit mom? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And like, I'm a better mom.

Now my baby is on formula because he is happy, he is healthy, he is thriving and so am I. That's the ultimate outcome. So, next baby, I'll give it a crack, sure. Cause I actually enjoyed the active breastfeeding. It was really nice to form that bond. But once Harvey hit six months, I was still trying to breastfeed him at six months. And he was feeding morning and night. And I felt like that was a good bonding time. But also we were definitely

still topping him up with formula. He got teeth and was like, hey, hey, I'm going to bite you. And I was like, do you know what I think we actually done? You didn't pass your six month probation. So we're just going to cancel this role and move on. The only part that I didn't like about the fact that both our kids started bottle feeding pretty early on was the fact that I had to do the feeds at night time with Laura. And up until that point when Laura was breastfeeding, I had a pretty clean run. Oh, you had it golden. Yeah. So when Laura was like, I think we're going to do formula.

I was like, that's totally fine. No. My husband took it like a champ. He was just like, oh, I'll do all of that. Like, I feel like I've lucked out. Another great flag. That's also what I said. OK, OK, but like my husband walked the walk back. Yeah.

And you know what? This is such a flex. I was talking on the plane on the way here to one of my team members. And I said, do you know what? This is such a flex. I was talking on the plane on the way here to one of my team members and I said, do you know how cool it is that I just, I got up really early this morning, I got on a plane, I'm coming to Sydney, I have an eight month old baby

and I didn't feel the need at all to leave my husband any instructions. Wow. I just knew he knew. Does he not know the bar's that low? He's just like way up here, they're all down here going, hey man. We need to have a chat to him. We need to talk to this guy.

It's the green flags. They lived up to their expectations. They did. They did. And I feel like that was actually something that was important to me. Dating and like finding a life partner. I did want a good dad. I was always like, I want to marry a good dad.

I had a good dad. Babies deserve that. I want to marry a good dad. I had a good dad. Babies deserve that. And, you know, sometimes you can't pick it. And sometimes the person that you think you're marrying ends up not being the person that you marry. And like, there's so many different situations, but like, God damn, am I so grateful that it actually worked out. Like, we should celebrate that behavior because jokes aside, that's, that is how dads should be behaving.

It shouldn't be an anomaly to have a dad like that. Yeah, for sure. But I remember being like, I should be celebrating because like, this is not what society has said is the expectation. Like I'm talking to other people that I know, and they're like, oh my God, I had to leave frozen meals and I had to leave out a list. And they didn't even know where, you know, what the code was at daycare drop off and all of this other stuff.

And I remember being like, honestly, from a bloke's perspective, a lot of blokes are useless. Yeah. But like the other day I had to ask my husband, I was like, sorry, um, what was the brand of formula again? I'm buying it. Like maybe I'm a shit mom. What one was it?

And he's like, it's a Lula Advanced, not gold. And I was like, oh yeah, totally. Totally, I get it. I do want to ask you about, we've spoken about some of your dating rules. You do have some other rules that I'm going to bring up and just get your perspective on. Not everybody likes my rules.

I love it. The internet doesn't seem to like my rules, but I think you guys will. Okay. This is specifically for You Born Stage. I feel like we need to give a little bit of context because it makes me, one, I feel like I'm justifying myself, but also it does make me seem a little bit more delulu.

And I think that works for you guys. You have called yourself hippie dippy at least four times so far. But it is true. How am I told that I'm hippy dippy? Not only are these rules, but this is a set of rules that I sent out to all of my friends and family before I even had the baby. Oh, before you had the baby? Yeah, the baby didn't even...

Oh my gosh. The baby hadn't been born yet. Can I just give you the first line really quick? Hello, family and friends. I'll take on the first rule. Okay, what's the first rule? Some of these are very obvious. I haven't seen this in a very, very long time.

Let me refresh your memory. Rule number one. Yeah. Please do not kiss our baby on their face. I feel like that's reasonable. I agree. Like babies get sick. They have really bad immune systems.

I want to kiss my baby all over my face. I get it. I get it too. Hold on get it too. Like RSV. Two doting dads. Your newborns. Did you want people kissing your baby on their face? No. Well, our kids were COVID babies. Oh, must be nice.

She's got you there. She does have you there. So no one would have done that to you. No. Correct. Yeah. Point taken. She's got you there Correct yeah point taken my My second was so we didn't have that problem, but the first one I can't I can't remember I Think I don't think anyone did maybe without me knowing or seeing but like looking at this and reading it going That's so reasonable, especially with you know, HSV RSV. I want you to love my baby, I really do. Totally. But, and I'm not the type of person.

Don't cough on it. But like, don't lick their face. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a bit weird. It's like, Uncle Steve's out of the game. Talk to my dog. This one's also, I think, really reasonable. If you're sick, could be sick, or have been around someone who is sick,

please reschedule your visit. We can't wait to share our baby with you, but also want to make sure they're safe. Totally fair. OK, OK. I think that's very reasonable. I feel like not turning up when someone has a newborn and you're potentially sick. Did you have to turn anyone away? No, no, I didn't, because do you know what?

My family and friends were incredibly respectful of the rules that I set. Yeah, I think that one should be pretty common knowledge too. Like if you're sick, you don't want to go near a baby. So you think that, but like common knowledge is not that common. Well, this one is a crazy one. Oh, it's crazy. Explain this one. Please wash your hands before picking up the baby.

Definitely not. No. I'm joking. Sorry. Oh, all right. Hold, I'm joking. Sorry. All right. Hold on. Hold on. When you guys go to the bathroom, do you wash your hands every time? Yeah. Bullshit.

I dip. You're not in there with me. Too quick. Men are too quick. Men are too quick. I'm too far in washing your hands. You looked at the chat. Moving on.

Okay. I think this is also very reasonable too. Thank you for thinking that they're reasonable, but I got savaged on the internet because I got asked about this and I said, I'll share the screenshots of my message. No worries. Yeah. And people were like, you are controlling. You are weird. Tell us which one, if there was anyone in particular that caused them like the biggest controversy.

I'm going to give you this one really quick. Please don't post any photos of our baby online or share them with others without our consent. So we don't share any photos of Harvey online of his face. Like I'll share pictures of us with our kid, but I like always put like an emoji or something over his face. I just, I don't want my baby online. I'm not a mom content creator. I'm not a family content creator. My husband is not part of like the social media world. I just feel like that's us. That's our, that's my space.

And do I think other people should do it? Not like I love seeing other people's babies. Yeah, men I like. Rolling out kids out there. I love it. Pay the bills. No, but I love it. But like I'm a finance content creator and I get,

and I mean, you probably do as parents as well, but like, I get a lot of bad feedback because I'm talking about like one of those three sacred topics that you should never talk about and that's money. And so I just, I don't know, it just makes me uncomfortable. It's like similar to me. When I post my money, I put an emoji over it. Yeah, yeah, that's fair.

I have noticed that. Is my suitcase of money that you put an emoji on? Yeah, like every time you take a selfie in the mirror as you're leaving, you're like, oh, sorry, I had to put an emoji over that wallet. That water cash. Victoria, what about this one? No strong sense. Yeah, you can't wear perfume around a newborn.

Why is that? It mucks up there like a little. What about Lynx Africa? That's the only one I allowed. That's the only one I allowed. So babies are really, really sensitive. So having perfume on around them is actually really bad for their little endocrine system. And during that period of time when they are a newborn, they're trying to bond via smell to their parents. So please don't get in the way of that. Noted. Noted. And the last one here, which the most controversial of all. Okay, yes. This is going to be very controversial. If you haven't had an up-to-date whooping cough

vaccination, please don't plan a visit before our baby's at least six weeks old. I mean, explain that one, Victoria. I'm just so pro-vax, you know? So who think cough can kill newborns? Yeah, that's all we need to. That's already obvious. I just feel like I don't actually want that to happen. And it turns out, yeah, it's wild,

but it turns out it's like semi-avoidable. Like you could just get vaccinated. And do I need you to get a vax? No, but like the trade-off is you can just meet our baby after they're six weeks old. Yeah, you can just wait and be patient. I think that's fair enough. You can wait.

Yeah. I think boundaries are very important. And I think it's fucking great that you have done this. I think it's hilarious that I had to listen to this back. I'm like, I am a little bit unhinged, hey. No, I think like you were saying, some people, common knowledge isn't that common. Like there's some of those are on like the scent one.

I'm like, I had no idea about that. See, I had no idea about this either. And I had the privilege of having babies last in our friendship group. So all of my friends had had that. And I just remember along the time, a friend would be like, oh my God, such and such as mom came and visited the baby

and she was covered in perfume. And I was like, what? And she was licking her face. She's like, what the? I was like what? And she was licking her face. So I was kind of like oh I didn't realize that I wouldn't have done that but also I didn't realize that was actually an issue so being able to see and learn from their mistakes and set them up so I didn't have to you know turn to my mom and be like I love your perfume but can you not? Can you leave? Yeah I guarantee whilst there would have been a lot of people who were online being like, what is this?

There would have been even more people screenshotting those rules to use for themselves. And people messaging and being like, I wish that I had done the same thing. I didn't even think about it or I didn't know. And I'm like, neither did I. I just got to learn from all of my friends' stitches. Can you sniff the baby? You can sniff the baby. Because people love sniffing the baby. I just got to learn from all of my friends' stitches. Can you sniff the baby? You can sniff the baby. Because people love sniffing babies.

I love a good sniff. I love it. Yeah, Matt's walking the street. Their feet? What is that? Why is it so good? Their feet, their head, the top of their head. Yeah. Oh yeah, I actually held a baby for the first time in a while. Baby breath? Oh yum.

I actually picked the baby up and my wife goes, he must be drunk. I was like... So good. Little must be drunk. I was like... So good. Little drunk newborns. Victoria, I do want to ask you two finance questions. I love finance questions. And there may not be answers to these questions.

If there's not, tell me to shut up. Yeah, OK. But I'll try my luck. Question number one. What would you say is the biggest financial mistake that parents make for their kids? Biggest financial mistake? Not investing in themselves.

So like I think parents make the mistake of thinking that to teach kids about money, they need to give their kids money. Like money is hard at the moment. We're in the middle of a cost of living crisis. Your kid does not need, they don't need their own little pay packet every week to manage. They need to see parents who are role modeling good money behaviors. Like they need to see parents who are having open honest conversations about budgets. Like you don't have to sit down with your five-year-old and be like,

so mommy earns $65,000 and daddy earns... Have you heard of compound interest? Yeah. Kids are smarter than you give them credit for. They catch on really quickly. But even just small things like not teaching them money during the grocery shopping, like, okay, cool. So we have $200 to spend this grocery shop. And that means that we need to look at these little dockets and, you know, those muesli

bars are $10 a box. What is that about, by the way? And these ones, the off-brand ones, you know, they're three. So you could choose, you could have three different snack options or one, which one is it? I know they're your favorite, but like, do you want more for the week?

Cause once they're out, they're out. Kids love that little games. Kids love little games and decisions. And I think that the mistake parents make is thinking we need to have a lot of money. We need to pay them pocket money and get them to learn money that way. When in reality it's actually actually we learn by osmosis and being around people who are good

with money. So I think that that would be the biggest mistake. It's not like investing or saving like you don't that pressure is wild. The idea that, you know, I get asked all the time, how are you investing for Harvey? And it's like, why aren't we talking about your emergency fund and, you know, filling your own cup first and being a parent that, you know, doesn't have to rely on credit. It's hard, but like, can we put ourselves in that position? And then be like, wow, you know, this unexpected bill came up, Jim, and we were able to pay for it.

Isn't that cool that we saved? And then now we weren't in a bit of a pickle. We can still go on the family holiday or we can still do that fun thing on the weekend it's not going to impact that. Like I think that is probably a mistake it's not using everyday opportunities to teach kids about money when you think you need it. You don't need heaps of money to be good at money. What is the one thing parents or expecting parents should be doing financially do you think? Bumping up their emergency funds because Because you just never know what's going to happen. Life is expensive and you can budget to the end of the earth, but sometimes you need a

little bit of wiggle room to order a TINA formula on Uber Eats. And yes, it is more expensive and it is not the best quote financial decision, but that is going to take so much pressure off your relationship. Wrangling a baby, wrangling a newborn is hard, getting out of the house even harder. So I would make sure that I have an emergency fund, make sure it's got, you know, as much as I feel comfortable in it,

but also then don't feel bad when you're using it during those periods of time. Because to me, an emergency fund is there to help you with emergencies and I know that you might go car accident or theft, but an emergency actually might be your mental health and just ordering that TIN or formula or the food or even dinner or a pizza for two on Uber Eats and paying a ridiculous amount for it so that you can stay on the couch and not have to lift a finger because that's what's going

to make your entire week better. So I think that emergency funds and savings are. It's not private school education. It's not, you know, all these fancy things. Kids, as you guys would probably know, they need not that much. Have you got somewhere safe for them to sleep? Have you got a nappy for them to wear?

And have you got food for them? Like that's basic of what we need. Anything else is luxury. So how do we kind of go back to like, we don't need a mamaroo swing. I promise you don't need that. You don't need the fancy carriers. They're nice to have.

What's the rocking one? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the mamaroo. Just get the hammy down. The hammy down that our baby beyond carrier went through like four different steps of parents. Yeah good. Because they use it for such a short period of time. But I think seeing those things as luxuries is important as well. I love that. I do have one last question before you go Victoria. What would be the one thing that you want Harvey to remember about the house that he grew up in? That it was full of love. Like I don't care about what it looks like or what it's done. I want him

to know that, like I want him to grow up and like, you know, when you talk about your family, be like, oh my God, everyone was welcome. I want him to always be like, oh, all my friends, they would always come over. Like I want him to know that everyone is welcome and that he's never not safe there. I think that for me is gold standard. Not the advanced standard, just gold standard. But like every child deserves to feel safe and wanted and loved. And I think that that can sometimes be hard to achieve in a home, especially if it's busy or hectic, I just want him to look back and be like,

oh, we had so much fun, we had so much love, that would be very cool. Good answer. We sure my mom sometimes, Victoria. Just mommy? That would get weird real quick. It would, yeah, you're a bit old. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you for having me. Yes, thank you for jumping on in. I could just suck all the financial wisdom out of your brain. It's free for the taking. Thanks so much. What are the biggest lessons I learned from our chat with Victoria, Matthew? Yeah, what would that be? My children do not deserve a cent.

As if you needed any convincing. A huge thanks to Victoria for sharing her experience with pregnancy loss. It's a very difficult and vulnerable chat. One in four women go through it and I think it's so important that more people talk about the topic. Absolutely Matt and if you've enjoyed this episode make sure you subscribe and follow 2dontingdads wherever you get your podcast or on social media. Of course 2d.0 DADS on Instagram. Join the Facebook page. Join the chat, is that what you want to say?

And also a little reminder as well, the calendars are still available at the moment. A reminder that all proceeds 100% goes to Rise Up, an amazing charity that works with victims of domestic violence. So if you haven't bought one yet, go ahead and buy them because they will sell out. The link is in the show notes, budgetsmuggler.com.au. Bye. See ya. Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia

and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to their elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. This episode was recorded on Gadigal land.