Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash - #115 2024’s Most Unforgettable Guests

Episode Date: December 29, 2024

Here are some of your favourite guests from 2024!  The lineup:  Laura Byrne April Wicks  Ellidy Pullin   Cayla George Braith Anasta 2025 Raunchy Ranch Calendar IS OUT NOW!  https://budgysmuggler.com.au/products/two-doting-dads-raunchy-ranch  Buy our book, which is now available in-store! https://www.penguin.com.au/books/two-doting-dads-9781761346552  If you need a shoulder to cry on:  Two Doting Dads Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/639833491568735/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheTwoDotingDads  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/twodotingdads/  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@twodotingdads  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Kick it off. What do you got for me? This is the last time that these people will hear us this year. For 2024? Yeah. Wow. What a year it's been. It's been a long year. Guys, no, it's gone quick.

Has it? I think so. Well, a bit of both. Has it been a long year for you? Yeah. How are you feeling? How are you? How do I sound?

Look, you are a little bit under the weather. We had to record these episodes. We're not, obviously we're not live, podcasts aren't live. I hate to ruin it for anyone. Wait, what? Yeah. I've had to drag Ash to my house. Unwell, he's on a lot of drugs. All legal. A couple of painkillers. A couple of painkillers. And we're just having a really nostalgic day.

I'm a soldier. You're a soldier. I'm a young soldier. We're just talking about what a year it's been, what amazing guests that we've had on this podcast. And we thought, we thought we'll give you a little reminder of just how good it was. I know I sound arrogant, so just bear with me. You sound great. Shut up.

Do I? Gosh, gosh, we're good. You sound great, but also shut up. We did, we had some really good guests. You had both of our wives. Oh, look who's arrogant now. We had both of our wives. Oh, look who's arrogant now. We had both of our wives. She's nice. April was, April had a bit of valium before she started.

Did she really? Yeah. Sorry, I shouldn't laugh at her drug problems. She was very anxious, very anxious, my wife, but we had Laura Byrne. Also very anxious. She was on More Than Once this year. April was on More Than Once too. We had a few episodes with April.

So we are happy today to bring you Laura Byrne, April Wicks. Yeah, we've got Elodie in the mix and Kayla George. One of our favorite episodes. Kayla George would be up there with one of my favorite episodes, I'd say. Yeah, you. I didn't realize. When we first met, I had no idea how much of a basketball fan you are. Yeah, look, I love a good time. And I think basketball is all a good time. You heard it here first. I love a party. It's a big party. And also one of my favorite chats with a dad, Braith Nasta is also in the mix. So it's a cracking episode. Enjoy. Let's spoken about it a couple of times. I've had a vasectomy. Matt hasn't endured that as yet. I want to know, is there a possibility for a third child? A third Johnson. A third Johnson. A third Johnson.

That's not a cat. Do you want to have another kid? I think so. So this has this has why the pendulum has swung so wildly. I've watched it. And I can't keep up with him because only a couple of months ago, Matt said he did not want to have another child at all. Because you're advocating for it.

You pulled me aside and said we're having a third. Personally, for me, I don't want another one for you. There is enough plants and cats and everything in his house. If I'm going to be honest, I don't need it. Why? I don't need you guys to have any more kids. Is it the stress of what that would require? I'm stressed already.

I'm stressed out, man. The plants are staring at me, the cats staring at me, a three legged dog staring at me. And now you want to introduce a fucking baby to stare at me while I'm here too. OK, so I always thought it's funny for me because I never really ever saw myself as being a mum. Like I didn't, I never had the- Well the joke's on you. I never had the maternal pool.

I never ever dreamt about being mom. I didn't even know if I'd be a good mom, really. I was like, that seems like you require a lot of patience to do it. And then I had Marley and I, well, no, then I met Matt and you really wanted to be a dad. And so- Then I had Marley.

Well, you really wanted to be a dad. And I think it was your excitement about wanting to be a dad that made me have excitement about wanting to be a mom. Even though I kind of knew it would be my plans, I just didn't have this like big maternal pull. Then Marley came around and I loved it so much more than I ever thought I would. And I think people are so quick to tell you all the bad bits about parenting and people don't really stop and tell you the incredible bits about parenting. The bad bits are so much more fun to talk about. That's what I think.

Totally. And people, we revel in complaining, right? Like we're as a- Oh, that's my favorite thing to do. Humans love to complain. There's this rule like shared, almost like, like shared camaraderie when we complain about stuff. That's all we do on this podcast. I know.

Wow. And then we're complaining about how the meat's uncooked. But I will say you're also a great mom as well. Thank you. I love being a great mum as well. Thank you. I love being a mum. Someone wants sex tonight. I love it. I love it so much more than I ever thought I would.

And I look at Lola now and you know obviously with whether we have two or we have three, I'm still a mum for as long as I am on the earth. But my thing is I look at Lola and I can't believe that I'm never gonna have another little person, like that she's the youngest that there is ever gonna be in this household. And every so often I just have these moments where I'm like, surely this can't be it. And I always thought I would get to a point of completeness.

I thought I would wake up one day and be like, or after Lola was born, I thought I would have this moment where I'd be like, oh, I'm so darn, like tie the tubes, baby. So it's a possibility. I would like to, I'm 38 now. I'll be 39 next year. Work is a lot in terms of like contracts and trying to figure out timings and

stuff, but if we could have a baby next year, I would be excited too. Would you name it after me? It would be named Ash. Jam. Michael. Like I know. Jamie. it would be named Ash. Jam, blacklets. Like I know. Little Jimmy Jam. I'm definitely done. Obviously, I have a vasectomy. Yeah. Okay. Well, I know that you like you feel the trauma there. But my one thing though,

about like having another kid is that I think people's instant reaction when someone already has two these days and it's two of the same sex, their instant thought is to be like, oh, well, you're trying for a boy. Like you're trying for the alternate sex. I love being a mum to girls. I always saw myself if I was going to have kids as having boys. So like it's my parenting thoughts of what I thought it was going to be is completely out the window. I'd always prefer another girl. Yeah. And if we had three girls, I would be absolutely fucking thrilled. So I would, I want that to be like on Yeah, and if we had three girls, I would be absolutely fucking thrilled. So I would, I want that to be like on record so that if we ever do have another girl,

people are like, oh my God, you just wanted to have a boy. You just wanted a boy. But genuinely, yeah, I could see us having another kid. Also, Nana just moved in, so like we've got a free babysitter. I would like to be more involved. You could be the godfather. Thank you. You can be the godfather. Thank you.

Delivered to you. I laugh about it now, but the thing I think that I was attracted to you were like your whole two tattoos that you had at the time. And I was like, that's hot. And they're like the worst tattoos I have. Yeah, literally. They're under my arm and under that arm. They're like, one of them was done by a tattoo artist that she was pissed. The worst tattoos I have. Yeah. Under my arm and under that arm.

One of them was done by a tattoo artist that she was pissed and it was like so bad. And the other one was just like a dumb 17 year old tattoo. Did you show her the tattoos that night? Yeah, I just walked around like this. By the way. By the way. He was skinnier than me as well. It was tiny.

I was so small. The photos of you when you were younger, you were a bit of a trim young lad. Oh, now what am I? A fat dad. A very clean cut. You're allowed 10 kilos for every kid you have. You didn't have the mustache. No.

Did that version of events match what happened from your perspective? Yeah, that was pretty bang on. I think I tried really hard to go home with a... She said no. Kick me off the bus. Yeah, we did catch a bus home. We got a bus home. Well, young, I was poor.

And then I spent weeks, weeks. Courting? Courting weeks to the point where it was a joke between her and her friends. So I was a joke, really. Well, because you were like playing hard to get or? He was very keen. And I remember joking like because he sent like, not millions.

But he sent plenty of messages throughout the day. And at that time I had a job where my phone was locked away in a locker and you'd send like a couple of messages like just like, how's your day? But then another one would come through. Nice ones. Nice. You were going back to back to back. Back to back to back.

I had no shame in those days. Yeah. I'd never do that now. And I joked to one of my friends at the time. And I was like, oh my God, this guy's so keen. Imagine if I ended up marrying him. Oh! Hey, there you go guys.

Persistence. Do you remember after you guys went at the pub, like what your first date was? Yes. Oh God. Where did you go? So Ash, you'd been out like that whole day. So I think you'd been drinking as well. So I, you were like, oh.

That does not sound like that Ash. You were like, oh, we should go out for dinner, but I think you need to, can you pick me up? Whoa. I was out during the day, but I had tried to see April at other occasions, but she was playing hard to get. And then the one occasion I'm, I was in Bondi actually. And the one occasion where she was like, Oh, I'm free tonight. I was,

I caught up with a girlfriend of mine that had moved down as well. And we just hadn't seen each other yet. She moved to Bondi. So we caught up for a drink and lunch. I only had like two or three beers, but I got a bus and a train there, you know, thinking, okay, I'll probably just spend the evening in, in Bondi and see what that's about. Sure. And then it was like, Oh shit. thinking, okay, I'll probably just spend the evening in Bondi and see what that's about. And then it was like, oh shit. So I pretty much stopped whatever I was doing and got on

a bus and then got on a train. But the thing is, I was like to Ava, I'm like, you're going to have to drive. So I got dropped at her, like pretty much at her place. And then we drove to where I was living, which was on the floor of Pete's house, who was at the cafe across the street. So just to clear that up. Okay. Carry on. No, I'm pretty sure as well you did send in a message. I think that's when you told me, you're like, oh, I can't afford dinner. Did I?

I can't remember how I found out that you couldn't pay for dinner. Oh yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty sure you like told me straight up, you're like, I haven't got money for dinner, but I'd love to take you out. Context is everything guys. I had packed up my car from living in my parents' house, moved here, was working three jobs that paid cash. And it was like the worst time, because I was in Bondi with all my money that I had and had pretty much spent it on lunch and everything, thinking, okay, I'm just going to go home,

I'll get paid in the next couple of days from one of these jobs. But then I didn't want to miss the opportunity. So honesty. Honesty is the best policy. Yeah, but I don't think, I don't recall saying it. Well, I just, I can't remember how I found out that I had to pay because I did have to pay.

Was that a red flag? No, let's get to that. Okay. You didn't have to pay. He didn't make you pay in the end. No, he did. He gave me a discount, didn't he? Because you worked where we ended up going for dinner.

So yeah, we drove, we drove somewhere. We didn't really have Because you worked where we ended up going for dinner. So yeah, we drove somewhere. We didn't really have plans and I was driving. I think we went to go to a sushi place, but I don't know, we couldn't park or something. Then we ended up going to, you were like, oh, I work at this J.C.'s pizza. Pizza place, so we'll go there. And so we went there, had dinner and whatnot.

And obviously all his coworkers were like behind my back, which I know now. Yeah. Like they're all like, she's great. She's great. Lock it down. And then the bill came and I went up to pay and yeah. I couldn't afford to pay.

But I had zero dollars into my name. I think the important thing to remember is that you can start with the bar really low and then from then on That's what I did. Everything's a plus. Yeah, and you did you did you used to spoil me rotten say oh In what way? Oh, I remember like one of the first Valentine's Day is I think you bought me an iPad mini buy me jewelry Yeah, like like literally spent probably credit card debt Yeah, like literally spent probably credit card debt. I was trying to make up for it. Trying to make up for that one dinner I couldn't pay for.

But it was the most important dinner, obviously. But I mean, at the time, I recall I was like, okay, well, the people I was with in Bondova, I got to go. And it was like, I got to go. I have to go for a particular reason. I could have easily just been like... No, not tonight. No. Yeah, yeah.

So that's how the first date went down. Do you remember thinking on that date, this feels different to other dates that I've been on? Definitely. Oh yeah, she had to pay for it. Like I feel slightly lighter in the wallet. It wasn't expensive, alright? No, and like you know, you're talking when we were 20.

There was not a high expectation of like, the whining and dining. As long as I'm not a douche. Yeah, it was about the, yeah. Yeah, I enjoyed his company. Your dog is very into the story. She's like, When it was hot!

I don't want to ask questions that are too personal. Did you have a kiss after dinner? I think so. I have no idea. I can't remember. I think so. Well, I don't know where. Like, I wouldn't have been at the restaurant.

I remember when we, because we had to stop at my place before we went. And I was living with Pete and there's three brothers in that house. I walked in, had to get some fresh clothes. And Pete was like, where are you going? I was like, oh, I'm going on a date with April Gates. And he was like, bullshit, you're lying, bullshit. And then I was like, oh yeah. And then he's like walked out, opened the front door.

He's like, damn it, look at that. Look at that. She had a big crush on April, so I stole her. Stole his thunder. Stole her? Don't think I was ever his. He still thinks he's got a chance. For anyone who hasn't been in the room, for anyone who hasn't given birth, what's it like?

And especially because I can't imagine doing that without drugs, but you're in a moment of like extreme pain. And then what's it like when you get to see your child for the first time and you get to hold them? Yeah, okay. So hang the fuck on, but you guys obviously have seen it as dads, but holy moly, like nothing prepares you for that.

It is excruciating and you have a plan, chuck that fucking plan in the bin. That plan is not sticking to plan. Solid advice. That is so true. Yeah. Like I had a plan, I mean I'm like a non-planny person, but I was like I want to have it in the bath, like I'm real zen. You had an idea. I'm gonna breathe through this thing, let's have it in the bath. I couldn't even fit in the fucking bath. My legs, my legs were way too long for this public hospital bath. And yeah, no, the pain I felt, I think Minnie was apparently turned the wrong way inside me and shit. And she was taking ages to come out and blah, blah. My legs felt like they were going to fall off.

They were numb, but also killing. The pain wasn't so much in the contractions, it was more in my lower back and my legs. I remember through my contractions, I was vomiting. So like actually vomiting all over me as well. My mum was, the fear in my mum's face like said it all to me. I was like, I think I'm gonna die. Like I remember saying that to her and she had had beautiful births with saying that to her. And she had had beautiful births with me and my brother. She'd had really quick births and get the, she said to me, birth is painless. It doesn't hurt. I don't know, this shouldn't matter. I don't think this matters. But like in my head, my mom is a stick. She's like a quarter of the size of me. So I was

like, mom's miniature, if she can push out two big heads that me and my brother had and it's apparently painless, this is a walk in the park for me. And my baby was pretty small. But the way, whatever the fuck she was doing in there, it was just killing. Oh my goodness. So yeah, birth was fucked and I, it was too late.

By the time I got through all the hours of dying in the Whatever with the midwives and stuff. It was just too late to get an epi like by the time I was like what's going on guys? Can I get the epidural that were like? You've literally you've probably only got an hour left. You've got to stop Stop pushing you've just done this for like seven hours like and I was like, oh, yeah. Okay now It's like I'm this is a mental thing and I'm like, okay I'm not getting it like I'm gonna do this because I was like I should yeah, okay, now it's like, this is a mental thing, and I'm like, okay, I'm not getting it, like I'm gonna do this. Because I was like, I should have got it like 10 hours ago.

But when she came out, I was just so freaking frothing and relieved that that was over. And trying to figure out how to hold this slippery little slug, because they're so slippery. No one tells you that you're gonna drop it. Like, I wasn't in a bed. I was on all fours on the little tile, whatever the floor is.

And she was just so slippery. And I was like, shit, we're all covered in blood and vomit and everything. I'm gonna drop this little egg. It took so long of me just catching my breath and chilling for like a few minutes before my mum and the midwives were like, what is it, check what it is. Like, what is it, you know, what's the sex? And so that was super cool. And I was like, holy shit.

I was like almost scared to like look cause I was like, oh my God, I can't believe I've just been so lost in this moment of like just frothing that this all slugs in my arms that I haven't even thought to look at what it is because I'm just so stoked to have a healthy baby that's screaming at me and yeah it was a girl. Sometimes the umbilical cords are a bit confusing as well. Your Homer Simpson. Did you have to cut it? Did you cut it? Yeah. How hard is it to cut? It's like calamari. Do you want to cut it down? No. I was like, sawing it, sawing through it.

My mom had the scissors and was like chopping, like trying to chop. It's not easy. Someone's gotta fucking sharpen these scissors because these are crap. Yeah, literally. I mean, a hospital wears the proper scissors to get cut open.

They were like, kids safety scissors. I was like, no. Yeah, they're like the exact ones, the plastic ones. safety systems. Yeah, I like the plastic ones. But nah, as you guys know, those moments are ridiculous. And then I just remember they kind of put me in the bed, babies on me, like figuring out how to breastfeed and like that. But just like you're so off with the fairies, you're just like, what the hell?

And then they're just like stitching me up and doing whatever they're doing. And that's not even I'm not even feeling a thing there because you're just like stitching me up and doing whatever they're doing. And that's not even, I'm not even feeling a thing there. Because you're just so wrapped up in like, oh my God, you've got a baby on your boob. Such a cool, and my mum was so great in those moments. The way that Pearl was conceived and you've come to be a mum is so unique. Can you talk us through when you made that decision or how the conversation started to go down that, that we were just talking about before, Matt and I were like, how do you put that on the table? Like, talk us through it, if you don't mind.

No, of course, of course. Kylo, my husband is a Torres Strait Islander and it's really common in Island culture to gift babies to other family members that are struggling to have their own children. Wow. And they truly believe that when they do that, they get their own after, they have their own after. Which happens a lot. You're not Torres Strait Islander background.

No, no, no, no, no, just my husband. Although my husband did think I was part Fijian when we first met. So I was like, no. I'm just Fijian for the time. Right, right. Will you listen to what I'm saying? So yeah, when I first started dating Kylo, I met his family and I knew that a couple of his nieces,

his sister had a couple of babies and she gifted her second one to his mom. They lived in the same house. So I knew of the concept of what it was about. They call it custom island adoption. There is an island name for it, but I'll just give you the English name. And so yeah, it's very common

and it's the highest form of respect in their culture to give to babies. Yeah, Nina, my sister-in-law, she knew my story. She knew what I've been trying and I'd wanted to have babies and I would have had two kids by now if it was like, you know, easy to pick a time and you know, it's just not been that easy for me

with a lot of different reasons with the period stuff and being an athlete and not wanting to miss events. But so after the Rio Olympics, she sat me down with Kyla's older sister and Kyla. And she said, look, we'd love to gift you a baby at some point when the time's right for everyone. Holy shit. I was like, oh my gosh, huge, amazing. I wasn't overwhelmed with it because I knew of the practice in the culture.

So I was like, oh my gosh, as if you do that. I was like, oh wow. I was more overwhelmed that like, it could have been happening like soon. I was like, oh. When you were struggling to full bring it, did you think, hey, this may be an option? No, Kylo never really spoke about it,

but I did speak to his sister, Nina, about it a fair bit. So it was always like kind of in my mind, like, oh, that could be an option, but I really do hope to still one day, like be able to hold a baby and still like have a baby myself. But if this is our only option, that's really cool too. Like what a blessing. And so yeah, I guess, oh, what year are we now?

2024. I guess at the start of, yeah, 2022, we'd just finished our boomers season in Melbourne. I was playing for Melbourne Boomers and I went home and held like a big gathering from Kyla's family, my family, my house in Cairns and my sister Nina was like, Kayla I'm nine weeks pregnant and I was like, wild. Which is like if it's a boy we're going to keep because we've only got the one boy but if it's a girl we want to gift it to you and I was like, oh my god. I was like, when's the test, when do we know what it is? They would have been trying and stuff without you knowing.

Yeah. And then obviously knowing that they wanted to give to your baby. Yeah. But then them saying, hey, we're nine weeks pregnant, is this biggest shock to you, as it is to the rest of the family, I suppose. Right, yeah, no, it was a bit of a shock,

but I really wanted to see what sex it was gonna be, because they were gonna keep the boy because they'd only had one son and they wanted another son. And I was like, that's totally fair. Like it's your child. Like even if you didn't want to give me it, it's your child.

So you still, they're still like 50-50 with you. Yeah, so as soon as we were able to, we got the test done and we, the doctor's exact words were, oh no, that's a hamburger. That's not a sausage and no, that's a hamburger. I was like, oh, is that the official term? That's the medical term for it.

Yeah, it's a hamburger. Is this the same doctor that's recommending the chocolate meal? No, that's how I was like, oh, is that the official term? That's the medical term for it. It's a hamburger. Is this the same doctor that's recommending the chocolate meal? That guy was American. How funny. So yeah, after that, after we found out the gender, then we kind of just got into like, mind you, I'm preparing for a World Cup, like a major event,

while I'm preparing to be a mum. And so just telling my family and the close friends that I had, and they're like, what? Like, they weren't really aware of the culture side of it. I hadn't spoken about, you know, how the family do that before. So people kind of took a second to let it sink in. Yeah, I mean, I think it's beautiful. But when you first hear about it, you're like, oh, because it's so different

to how Western culture would be. I know. It's kind of like I didn't think it was that was the thing. And there'd be so many people listening right now that would be, especially men. Yeah. They'd be like, but never thought that that would be. Yeah. There was a lot of troll comments. Oh really? When I posted, when it came out, there'd been articles written or whatever. There was a lot of troll comments of just people that just had no open mind or no idea like, and that's fine.

Like that's social media these days. Yeah. You can't do anything without troll comments. It's the world we're living in, people are so- I don't know that you'd get troll comments with this podcast though, like- I'll get a couple. Normally it's just like, you guys swear too much. Yeah, though. Oh, really?

Yeah, we made fun of a dentist and then people came after us after. Oh, really? But we love the dentists. And doctors. Good, yes. Technically vets, but anyway. Assuming that you'd have a bit of a thick skin,

playing professional sport, copping heat from people. You can still get to you sometimes though, if you let it, because there's a lot of stuff and it can be pretty debilitating when you're not in a confident head space, because we've always got to maintain a confidence level to be able to perform and play under pressure. I don't know what life is like to not have pressure,

like basketball pressure. And if I finish one tournament, it's like, oh, well one game, well then what's next? There's always pressure for the next thing. So I think when I retire in years to come, because I feel like I've got a good chunk of years left in me, I can't wait to feel like what life's like with no pressure,

basketball pressure. So I just- It's boring over here. Is it? Oh, well maybe I'll just play till I'm 70. Yeah, so once we, back to the Pearl train of events, so once, you know, it got closer to the time, I had the World Cup. We won a bronze medal in Sydney.

We beat Canada in the bronze medal game. Nine days later, I'm in the theatre with Nina. Wow. Getting pearly. I was really nervous about the connection piece. I was really nervous, like, about everything. It was just... In what way?

Well, because I hadn't held, I hadn't, you know, actually been growing her in my belly. So I was really nervous about, yeah, the connection, but skin to skin straight away was with me and it was beautiful. It was straight away, oh wow. Yeah, yeah. Not the skin, I held her straight away

than like when we went to the recovery room or skin on skin, which was really beautiful. But I was also really nervous and felt really guilty for taking away Nina's baby. And she said to me in the recovery room, she said, I've actually been holding her for you this whole time, she's not been my baby this entire time, she's been yours, and I've just been looking

after it for you, was what she said to me. So she's disconnected from that, but it's really, I suppose you've got to. Yeah, so I thought that, I mean, we're really close, me and Nina. So we talk a lot and we've got a really great relationship. I guess you kind of have to to be able to do this, but she was actually just down in Sydney last week with her four-year-old son. So that was really great for Pearlie and Nicholas to be able to have a play.

But yeah, it was a really, I almost would like cry anytime. Like when we had to leave the hospital and she went to her house and we went to ours and I took Pearl, I was so emotional because I felt this huge guilt that I didn't anticipate once we had Pearl into the world that I was taking her away from Nina. Yeah. So I had to kind of overcome. Nina would laugh at me. I'm like, oh, she could laugh at me. Shut up. She's like, get in the car. Yeah. So she had already kind of done it in her head.

Disconnected. Yeah. Being a single dad with girls, do you think that time, so much had already kind of done it in her head. Disconnected. Yeah. Being a single dad with girls, do you think that time, so much time with them has helped you build a much stronger bond than maybe some other dads have that are, you know, still with the mom and there's that mixed? It's mixed for me. Like Ali, our bond is unbreakable.

Yeah. Purely because from the day she was born, it's been me and her for different circumstances. Gigi, I don't get as much, which is hard for dads as well, right? Because it's more the, I would say, the stereotypical, you know, breakup where the mother has majority. You know, we always want more, but it's different. Like I hope that she, the hard thing is I want her to look forward to seeing me every time she sees me.

So as a dad, when you've got her, I don't wanna, I spoil her. But how much do you spoil them that they don't benefit the right way? You know what I'm saying? So I've got Thursdays, other days it's called Daddy Do it again. And we have like swimming in the morning and it's the one day where Laura's working my wife.

And so it's just me and the girls. And it's this hard balance of I want it to be a really memorable, enjoyable experience. And so you wanna give them things that they enjoy, but at the same time, it's also hard when some, it's just a bad day. Sometimes the girls didn't have a good sleep. They're cranky.

They don't want to get their swimmers and go to swimming lessons. And so it ends up being a shit day where it's been disappointing. And then like, how was it for you when you do that little window with Gigi and you build it up to be something great and then it's not.

And you- Sometimes it's heartbreaking because you've only got a short period of time, like a couple of days with her in a week. And if it's not a good time, you're disappointed and sad because you've got to drop her back on a bad note. And it just hasn't gone to plan. And you don't have that everyday time to be with her, you know.

So it is hard for dads like that. And it doesn't always count as playing, right? Yeah, especially as they probably get older as well. And they're into their own things or they might, I mean, with my daughter, she's so young that like if we have a tiff, we can get over pretty quick. But as she gets older and more stubborn

and resilient herself and can be like, well, I'm gonna hold this grudge against you now because that's not fair what you did or whatever it might be. It must be really hard. I can't imagine that drop off at the end of your time and you haven't been able to mend that bridge and then you've got to wait all this time to try and have that moment. And it's your own daughter, you know.

Yeah. It's hard to take. You know, because you go back again to... All you ever think of as someone as a kid or just growing up is having that perfect family, right? Where you've got your kids and you know, I was brought up in, well it didn't end up being a perfect family but it was from my childhood. And then you get to a point where it's just not. And you've got to deal with it. But that's like, you know, we've all got ways of dealing with different things and things we've got to, you know, navigate through. And that's a constant challenge for me. But I love, I love my girls and I love being a

dad. Well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, here we are, Ash. It's nice to revisit those voices. See, I tried to say that with a really serious face. You sound like someone who's got... Is it schizophrenia? That's what I say to myself every night before I go to sleep. I can't wait to lay down and revisit those voices.

Look, these are a series of best of episodes because we are having a delicious, wonderful, relaxing break over the Christmas period. These are a series of best of episodes because we are having a delicious, wonderful, relaxing break over the Christmas period. So we will be back with you next week for another best of episode. And if you've enjoyed that, please leave us a review. A New Year's review, someone say. Well said. Five stars and then join us on socials, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook. And we love you all. Goes without saying. See you next year. We'd be nothing without you. See you next year. We'd be nothing without you.

We appreciate your support. You sound desperate now. Okay. We are desperate. Bye. Bye bye bye bye. See you next year. Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia

and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to their elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. This episode was recorded on Gadigal land.