Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash - #64 BONUS Doting Mum Kat Clark

Episode Date: May 5, 2024

Kat Clark is truly a force to be reckoned with.  With a platform boasting millions of followers across social media and a thriving skincare business, Kaladé, which she co-runs with her daughters Latisha and Deja.  After falling pregnant at the young age of 17, Kat found herself in an abusive relationship, disconnected from her family on an island north of Queensland.  Thankfully, she was able to escape her situation, start her life anew, and rebuild it to what it is today.  We're immensely grateful to Kat for bravely sharing her story, and we encourage our dads to speak out about violence against women. If you or someone you know needs support, help is available:• 1800 Respect national helpline: 1800 737 732• Full Stop Australia: 1800 385 578• Women's Crisis Line: 1800 811 811• Men's Referral Service: 1300 766 491• 13 YARN: 13 92 76• Lifeline (24-hour crisis line): 131 114• Relationships Australia: 1300 364 277See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, and thanks for joining us on this bonus episode of Two Doting Dads. We are extremely privileged to share with you Kat Clark's story. Kat Clark, she's a successful business owner with millions of followers online. She has a thriving skincare business that she co-runs with her daughters, Latisha and Deja. It's called Collade. She found a lot of success on TikTok with her healthy recipes, gaining popularity and a supportive community. Yeah, she's got about 6.2 million on TikTok with her healthy recipes, gaining popularity and a supportive community.

Yeah, she's got about 6.2 million on TikTok. It's one of those situations that at a glance, I remember when I first came across Kat Clark, it's when she won TikToker of the Year. Creator of the Year, yeah. And I thought, gosh, this woman's got such an amazing life. She's got all these opportunities. She's killing it. How good. She gets swamped in the streets. People literally, she can't even go to the shops without people coming up to her and being like, oh my God, she's like the newest form of celebrity in Australia. But her life wasn't

always this picture perfect. She fell pregnant at the age of 16 with her first child, Letitia, when she was living in Brisbane. And she found herself in an abusive relationship with the father of that child. Luckily, she summoned the courage to leave her abusive partner and start a new life with her daughter. From here, Kat was able to rebuild her life to where it is today. On average, one woman dies every week at the hands of a man. Those numbers aren't going down. In fact, they're going up with a 30% increase since last year. We're immensely grateful for Kat for her bravery in sharing her experience, including her journey through domestic violence.

If you or someone you know is in need of support, please don't hesitate to reach out to 1-800-RESPECT. We will also put further resources in the show notes. Welcome back to Two Doting Dads and One Doting Mum. I am Matty J. I'm Ash. And I'm Kat. This is a podcast all about parenting. It is the good, it is the bad. And the relatable. And if you have come wanting advice, hang on a second.

Whoa. It may come today. Kat, normally we don't give any advice. Yeah. But. You never know. You seem far wiser than myself and Ash. Oh, I don't know about that.

You've been a parent longer than us, so I'm sure there's something you can teach us along the way. By default, you are the most experienced. Yeah, that's true. It goes cat and then we're sort of on a similar level. It's a murky second and third between myself and Ash. I do want to start off and say congratulations on Collade. Thank you.

Which has been, by the looks of things, a roaring success. Yeah, it's been awesome. It's been really good. We're very lucky. We have amazing supporters. How did it come about? I mean, for everyone looking in, it's sort of just unless you're really avidly following your family, for us and see it pop up like, whoa, look at this thing come out of nowhere.

And I know you guys really hero your own success and you see a lot of it, you know, it's sold out and people are going, give us more. Where did it all come from? I was shocked if I'm being honest. A lot of people like, as if you were shocked, I was honestly so shocked. But the reason we came up with skincare was because my daughter actually struggled with eczema for so long. And I've logged about her journey for ages. She was getting bullied because her skin was like getting discolored. And we went on this journey trying to find like organic skincare. And we did find really good stuff, but it wasn't like perfect. And so we decided to create our own. And so when I came to my husband with the idea, I was like, let's do this. And he's like, great. I was like, we'll

be ready by the time it's my birthday. So in like three months time, and he's like, no, we're not going to be ready. So it took like nine to 12 months for us to actually get everything together. Holy shit, wow. Yeah, it was a really long time. And to keep that secret for so long, oh, my gosh, it was crazy. Did you just do it out of your house, I saw? Yeah. It's a real family business, isn't it? Yeah, it was.

Because there was like a shot of you guys in the living room, like packing orders. Yeah. And I was like. It was insane. And we you guys in the living room. Yeah. Like packing orders. Yeah. And I was like. It was insane. And we live in a townhouse. So when we moved to the Gold Coast, we downsized because we wanted to be really close to the water. And so, and it worked well for us because Tisha was about to move out of home and we only had one child at home.

And then we're like, let's start a business and yeah we were in our downstairs area with you know six or seven friends of tisha and mine like floating in and out helping pack orders get everything sorted but yeah it was an experience i just kept seeing videos of your husband carrying big boxes because he had to like walk to the garage, get the product, bring it into the house for us so that we could pack the orders. So, yeah, it was crazy. I want to talk about you growing up. What was a young cat like? Even if you go as far back as like primary school.

I feel like I have different stages in my life. But primary school, I was, I went to this Catholic school. Me and my cousin were the only Asian people at our school. And it felt very isolating. And we were bullied quite a bit for the color of our skin and stuff like that. So I was actually very, I don't know what the word is. Like I was very timid and didn't have a lot of friends. I had like one close friend. Yeah. It was quite sad. My primary school upbringing, if I'm being honest. Where was that? In Brisbane? Yeah. In Brisbane. Okay.

Did that ease off when you were transitioning into high school or was that something that stuck with you? No. When I went to high school, something that stuck with you? No, when I went to high school, it changed. Like I remember going, cause I went to a private girl school, got kicked out of that school. That's another story. Can we just get a brief reason why? Just a little brief reason. I was a really naughty girl. Okay, great. I don't know if you've heard that saying strict parents raise sneaky kids. I have now, I just heard that. Okay.

Well, I was a very sneaky kid because I had very strict parents. But anyways, I was kicked out of that school and I went to a state school and it was filled with so many different ethnicities and it was a weird experience because I was kind of used to being like in these private schools where I didn't see that part of the world. And then that's where I really went off the rails. Was it nice to be in that state school environment where all of a sudden your heritage wasn't something that was unique?

For sure. I loved it. Do you know the Brisbane area? Yeah. You do? Yeah, I grew up in Kenmore. Oh, okay. So you're Northside. Yeah. Oh, there's a conflict. I just felt the conflict immediately. I'm on the South side of Brisbane. Well, I grew up on the South side of Brisbane.

Yeah, it was just really cool to kind of go, oh, there's other people who are Filipinas and other kinds of ethnicities. And so how was it then trying to like live a double life with your parents and if you're like talking about being sneaky? Yeah, me and my parents had a really tough relationship. My mum was very religious and it kind of made me this rebellious child that didn't want to do anything or live by her rules. So I would sneak out of the time. I would wag school. I would, you know, get into things that I wasn't

supposed to be getting into, hang around with people that I wasn't supposed to be hanging around with. It was tricky. Thankfully, me and my mom have a good relationship now, okay relationship, but back then it was hard. Yes. I'm assuming that your mum wasn't welcoming to boyfriends? No. She hated all my boyfriends. She didn't want me to have anything to do with men at all, guys at all.

Yeah. And I suppose falling pregnant with Tisha at 16? Yeah. Wow. I mean, that probably wouldn't have been, she probably wouldn't have loved that. No, she definitely did not. It was a really, yeah, it was very hard. It's weird though, during my pregnancy, she was actually quite nice to me so you know for mother's day she bought me like a little gift and I was like heavily pregnant like is this a trick what's happening but it was after Tisha was born that it just went downhill again and I often think about this and I think because I was pregnant I when I was like a naughty teen

and then I found out I was pregnant, I went from getting Ds in every single one of my classes to As within a month of finding out. So pregnancy is the key. Yes. Some people say they have baby brain, but I was like so determined to give my child like a better life that I just like switched my life around. So I stopped going out, obviously, I'm not going to go out while I'm pregnant and 16. And I was just like studying all the time, trying to really better my life. Then when I gave birth,

that's when I started to gain a little bit more freedom and I was able to kind of leave the house a bit more. And that's what I don't think she liked. Do you remember the moment where you told your mum that you were pregnant? Yeah. Well, I didn't actually tell her. How do you mean? She still doesn't know. So because my mum and I had this really difficult relationship, every time I would go to speak to my mom, she would just lecture me and I just didn't feel comfortable going to her about anything. So when I found out I was pregnant, I was like, crap, I kind of have to tell her I'm starting to get morning sickness. Like I need to tell her. How many weeks roughly is this? That was around six weeks. I started getting sick. And so I started

writing these letters to tell her and every time I would write a letter I was just like oh this isn't making sense and I'd scrunch it up and I eventually gave up and I went for a walk and got back home and my mum was like get in the lounge room right now and I was like what the hell and she had gone through my bin and read all the letters. What did you say? So we sat down in the lounge and my dad was kind of sitting where you are and my mum was there and my mum was bawling her eyes out, obviously, because this is like every religious mother's worst nightmare.

Yeah, yeah. And my dad was kind of like, I could tell he was disappointed, but he was more like, what are you going to do, that type of thing, like very, I don't know, he's just always been. Looking for the logical. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a very emotional conversation, but then after about an hour, they were like, go to your room.

And I just sat there and I was like, oh, my God. I just can't imagine that feeling. At this point, were you set in your mind that you're going to keep the baby or was it a discussion of potentially aborting? It was, I didn't know what I was going to, I mean, I'm 16, just found out I was pregnant. I was so like lost in what to do. And there's everyone kind of giving me their opinion about what I should and shouldn't do. I think deep down, I knew that I didn't want to go down that route. And it actually partly has something to do with how I was saying my mom was

a very religious lady. So I was brought up, you just don't do that. You don't get rid of your child if you fall pregnant. And, you know, I was scared about getting rid of a life, like there is a life in me. And it really like freaked me out that I, you know what I mean? Like it was just left a bad kind of feeling in me. So it was something that I, it was a conversation that we definitely had, but it was something that I don't think I would have ever done, even though I was so young. And your partner at the time, what was his reaction to the situation? Honestly, I block a lot of him out. I think there's just so much trauma there. We were so immature, so immature and so stupid.

I don't think it was a big deal to him. I mean, he was nine, no, he was 18 at the time. Slightly ignorant. Yeah. Yeah, you don't really know anything at that stage. Yeah. So it wasn't like he was like, oh, my God, my life is over or anything like that.

He was just like, oh, yeah, sweet. And how long have you been together for at this point? So we weren't together for long at all. I would say we were probably together for like three to six months. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So, oh, yeah, it's such like you don't really even know each other,

especially at that age and you don't really know yourself at all. Yeah. That's crazy. And I was actually going to break up with him a few weeks before I found out I was pregnant. Oh, wow. Yeah. The breakup or the potential breakup, did you just think it wasn't the right guy

for you or what was the reason behind that? Well, I was just like, I was 16, you know, you get a crush on like five different people in a month, you know what I mean? So it wasn't anything serious to me. It was just like I didn't really think it was going to work out with us and I started getting feels for another guy at school. During the pregnancy, was he supportive? Yeah, he was really supportive.

I mean, as supportive as an 18 year old can be. He actually grew up on Thursday Island. Do you guys know where that is? Yeah. Heard of it. It's like the very tip of Queensland. So very secluded little island. He grew up there. He actually moved to Brisbane to study and be closer to me. So he was supportive. You've decided that you're going to keep the baby. Your mum is being more, I guess, warm to the idea of you being a young mum. Things are going well. Are your partners being supportive? Was it all smooth sailing then up until birth? Yeah, it was pretty good.

Like the pregnancy was really good. I had a lot of support, which was amazing. My school was incredible. They let me stay at school until I was two weeks due. Oh, my gosh. Because I was like so determined. I was like I need to finish grade 12. Like I need to make my life, you know, I need to make something

of my life type of thing. What was that experience like? It was horrible. That's crazy. Yeah, it was horrible. I mean, obviously the bullying was just crazy. But not only from my own school, but from the other surrounding schools. So there was so many rumors going around. We would go on these excursions where other schools would go on the same day and that would just be like yelling out. And obviously like there's a pregnant 16-year-old who isn't going to say something.

It's like shocking, right? Yeah, and school's brutal too. Yeah. It's probably the most brutal place you could be pregnant. Yeah. You think of the workplace as the workplace, right, and like how hard it is as well just, you know, just mobility-wise and getting around and then also like how people

treat you in that area. But imagine being a teenager in school. Yeah. How do you support yourself in that environment where you are copping so much from so many other people? Do you just bottle it up or was there someone who was helping you through this? Oh, my friends and my actual teachers.

So I had a drama teacher. The drama teachers are always there. They're always there. He hosted my baby shower for me. Yeah. And every time I'd go into the classroom, he'd actually have a seat for me so that I didn't have to sit on the ground like the rest of the students. Do you remember his name? Mr. Edwards. Yes, Mr. Edwards. Shout out. Mr. Edwards. Yeah, I had like amazing support, like my teachers and my friends, but obviously outside of that it was quite difficult. But yeah, I'm just very lucky that I had a good network of friends because it was tough.

And then you gave birth in Brisbane? Yeah. On your birthday? On my birthday. Wow. Yeah. And do you know what? Going back 21 years ago, people in the hospital were not nice with me being a teen mom. Okay. It was like. Like the

nurses and midwives. Yeah. Really? So I had one nice midwife who like brought me a little piece of cake and like helped me and whatever, but because it was my birthday. After I gave birth, I was terrified of taking Tisha home. I wanted to stay in the hospital for as long as possible because I just didn't know what I was doing. Like I was just like scared. The lady was like, okay, so you've been here for three days. You don't need to be here. Your baby's latching perfectly.

Like everything was fine. You need to go home. And I latching perfectly like everything was fine you need to go home and I like begged her I was like please what was her name anyways they ended up moving me to the psych ward okay yeah but how long no they were obviously filling up and so they moved me to that ward so that I could stay there for longer but I was like did it really have to be the psych ward? Like for real? Yeah.

I can't imagine that. Probably not a safe place for a baby. Yeah. And so then after that, you went home to your mum and dad? Yeah. So went home to my parents and my partner then went back up to Thursday Island. Yeah, it got really tricky between me and my mum and I ended up sneaking out when Tisha was six weeks old and flying up

to Thursday Island. With Tisha? Yeah, with Tisha. Oh my goodness. Yeah, because I just couldn't, my mum was just, my mum and I were just fighting and it was like causing me so much stress, especially with like having a little baby. It was a lot to take on. So I just left. Yeah, wow. So you're 17. You're a new mum.

You're now on Thursday Island. Like how is that trying to raise a child? Oh, my God. It was hard because not only was I dealing with what you just said, but I've also left the city life to live on an island. It's really hot. Yeah. But it was like Thursday Island is very secluded.

Only Indigenous Australians live on there. So I felt very like out of place. I felt like I didn't belong there. And it just was like, you know, I didn't know what to do type of thing. So it was like a huge culture shock because I was like this city girl, you know, used to dressing up in crop tops and heels and, you know, just being that type of person and then all of a sudden I'm on an island where people are fishing every day. Like, what? Culture shock.

Yeah. At this point were you thinking, like, this is where I'm going to be forever? Yes, but I also, yes and no because a lot of people on Thursday Island kind of go back and forth from Cairns. So they, because all the main workers in Cairns, you know, all the good schools are there. So people aren't on Thursday Island for a very long time unless, you know, you've retired or you've got your job there.

So part of me was willing to kind of accept that's where I was going to be. But then there was also part of me that was like, I need to get back. For me, like my youngest is three, but her newborn phase, I've pretty much like blurted all out because it was bloody hard. Yeah. How was it for you figuring out motherhood at the age of 17 when you're going through like sleep regressions and teething and moving on to solids? Very scary. I remember one day Tisha, she, cause I had to put that kid on

a dummy because my God, she was just driving me insane. So, and it was my biggest regret putting her on a dummy cause like taking that dummy off her was just crazy but um I used to give her the dummy to kind of help soothe her and one day I gave her the dummy and there must have been like a little grain or something on that dummy and she started choking and it was the most terrifying day of my like night night of my life. So we took out the dummy. We're trying to, me and my ex-partner's parents, we're trying to kind of help her choke up, get out whatever was in her throat. And we're like racing to the hospital. It was so, so scary. So yeah, it felt really isolating. And obviously I don't know, I didn't know how to be a mum and all I had was like people telling me their best advice, which I really regret.

Whenever I see a new parent, I'm like just do what makes you feel good. Yeah, that's good advice. Because I took on all this advice not knowing what was wrong and everyone telling me don't do this, don't do that. They kind of make you feel worthless. Yeah. What am I doing wrong? What am I doing right? Do what's best that's worked for you because it might be completely different for someone

else. Exactly. Yeah. So it was challenging for sure. And how was the relationship with your partner at this stage? It was actually okay because at that point we were living with his parents. Actually, okay, because at that point we were living with his parents. So when I moved up to Thursday Island, we lived in this tiny little house. It was a one-bedroom home with six of us in the house.

Oh, my goodness. Holy shit. Yeah, six or seven actually, seven including Tisha. My partner, Tisha, and I had that room and they would sleep in the lounge room. It was good because it was kind of like family gathering every single- Yeah, it was like having a village to help. Yeah. So it was fine then, but when we moved out of that home into a larger home and we were given one section of the house where we had our own privacy. That's kind of when our relationship started to go downhill. In what way?

He drank a lot and he would come home a lot of the time wasted and get quite physical and violent. So, yeah. Do you look back and do you think there were any warning signs that that's where things were leading? Definitely. I didn't know at the time, but looking back now, for sure, I can definitely see that there were signs that he was like very controlling, but back then it just, it actually felt like he cared about me in some stupid way. But looking back, it is definitely him being controlling. And when you say controlling, in what kind of way?

Who I was speaking to, who I was hanging out with. If I was like five minutes late, he'd kind of lose it, that type of thing. A lot of manipulation, do you think? Someone's that controlling, it must have made you feel even more isolated considering you're already removed from, you know, your family, your friends and he's starting to, you know, control what you're saying, what you're doing, who you're talking to, where you're going all the time.

And sometimes it's really hard for, I mean, I hear all the time, it's sometimes really hard to see what someone's really like when you're the closest to them. But now you reflect on it. Are there any other warning signs that you think, oh man, now I look back at that? For sure. Definitely the financial side of things as well. A lot of people, that really got me by surprise. So he would often say that I was really bad with money and that I, he would have to kind of look after the money side of things. And so it got to a point where. Were you bad with money? No, I'm like the best with money. I'm like so good at saving and all that sort of stuff. But he had made me think that,

oh, it's better for me to kind of give him full control of all the money that's coming through to me so that, you know, he can be in charge. And it got to a point where I didn't even see the money that would come into our lives. So that is definitely something that I should have been more aware of. But he wasn't like that in the beginning though. No. This is over an extended period. of. But he wasn't like that in the beginning though. No. This is over an extended period. Yeah, for sure. So a lot of people say like, why didn't you just leave? But for me personally, I can't speak for anyone else, but for me personally, I was always thinking, but what if he can change? What if he can go back to how he used to be? And he's promised me so

many times that he's going to be a better person. And I always believed that when he's promised me so many times that he's going to, you know, be a better person. And I always believed that when he told me. So for the first year, he was amazing. He made me feel like I was the only girl in the world, like, you know, ticked all the right boxes. It wasn't until I kind of left home, left my family, left my friends where things started going downhill really quickly. And then what was the process then for you deciding that enough's enough, I need to leave this guy?

So there was one main incident for me where Tisha would have been like, I'm going to say nine months old was when they start crawling, right? Around there, yeah. Okay. They slide. So she was around that age and she was sitting at this damn tissue box like pulling the tissues out.

Like just as I know your kids do. It's such a thing that kids do and they still do it. So she's doing this thing in the lounge room and my partner at the time walked in and he was wasted and I was like, oh my God. So I moved her into another room with a tissue box so that she could keep herself busy in the room. And we started having an argument and it got heated really, really quickly. And he actually grabbed my throat and held me up against the wall and at the same time Tisha had crawled out of the room. You know when your kid cries, you can kind of tell when they're hungry

or when they're tired. Or they've hurt themselves. Yeah, yeah. Or they're just whingy. But there's also when they've hurt themselves, when they've really hurt themselves, there's like a certain pitch. Yes, there's extremes, yeah. When they stop breathing, they're like.

Yeah. You can tell the difference. Yeah, it's like a language that parents just know, right? Yeah, totally, yeah. Well, she crawled out and she screamed a scream that I had never heard before. Wow. Like ever in my life. It was like pure terror and it just

made me realize like what the fuck am I doing like I don't want my child to why why what am I doing like it was just like a fucking you know wow moment for me like I'm terrified but so is my child so that's kind of when I thought I need to do something. But you're on Thursday Island, right? At this point. So then how quickly can you get out? It took a long time. So not only did I have to have that realization, but I also had to build up my self-worth because at that point I was, I don't even know who I was at that point. I had no self-confidence. I, my anxiety was through the roof. Like I was just in a really bad place mentally. I had no money because at that point he was, he had all control of the money.

We were fighting every weekend. Like it was bad. What I did was I would actually steal like a dollar or two dollars from his wallet every few weeks. And I think I saved like 50 or $55 at the point at that point and walked down to the Telstra shop, bought like a prepaid Sagam, you know, those little crappy phones. Yeah, when you could just buy like it. Yeah. Yeah. So I bought one of those phones and then started getting in touch with my friends again. And then maybe like three months after getting that phone,

that's when I started to believe like, wow, I can actually leave. I can start a new life. I'm not some, you know, single mother that nobody's going to love. Like there is another chance for me. So it took a lot of time. It wasn't like it happened and I just gained all this strength and I could kind of leave in that moment. It was a long time. To build the courage up too. I could imagine that in that, in that moment, if, if this, if this guy's already put his hands on you, why, what's going to stop him from putting his hands on you again when he finds out that you're trying to find an escape route?

I can't imagine having to build up to that. Yeah. With the friends that you were reaching out to, was their feedback as simple as, well, just come home? Or were they saying, go to the police? Were you getting mixed information on how to act? Yeah, they were telling me to go to the police? Were you getting mixed information on how to act? Yeah, they were telling me to go to the police. So I don't know why, but it was so scary for me to call the cops.

So the thing that I did a lot instead of calling the police was actually call women's shelters, which were incredible. Like they literally saved my life so many times. But yeah, my friends were like, you know, go to the cops and obviously telling me to just leave. They did say those things. But I think the thing that made me actually want to go back is just having those friends miss me and say, come back, like we want you back home, that type of thing, and just made me realize that I can still have a life outside of what I currently was living.

Do you remember what it felt like when you did leave, when you stepped foot outside of the house and you closed that door behind you and you had in your mind that I'm not coming back? It was the best day of my life. Like the best. As soon as you answered that question, your whole face was lit up. You could tell that you were honestly telling us the truth. Can I share the story?

Please. It's like my favorite story ever. I was living with him in Cairns at that point and I said that I really wanted to go back to see my mum because Tisha wanted to kind of you know see her grandma or whatever and I was like and you should go back up to Thursday Island and see your parents and we can go on like a mini separate holiday whatever anyways he wasn't too keen on the idea, but he was like, okay, we'll do it. So that night he took my ID, he took my birth certificate, he took all Tisha's photo albums and he hid them in the house because he knew that if he hid those things, it would make me come back.

That's psychotic. Psychotic. So that night he fell asleep and I turned off his alarm for the next morning because that next morning I was getting on a train to go back to Brisbane. So I turned off his alarm and I waited till he was asleep and I searched the whole house for those items, found them, put them in my bag. And then the next morning I waited like five minutes before we had to leave. And I woke him up and I was like, we slept through our alarm. Let's go, let's go. And so he didn't have time to check

the items or anything. And we were out the door. So we get to the train station. And then you've got them in your bag. Yeah, they're in my bag. Oh, fucking hell. So we get to the train station and he hands me a phone because he doesn't know that I have my Sagan at this point. Your lifeline. So he hands me a prepaid phone, one that he's purchased.

And he's like, I want you to make sure that you answer this every time I call you. Otherwise, I'm coming to get you. And I was like, yeah, of course, babe, I'll answer it. So I get on the train and we, the train is like a 24 hour train. It's a long way. See, this is what I was saying. My anxiety was so bad. I could not even get on a plane. So I have a fear of flying, but at that point I legitimately could not even step foot on a plane. So I had to get on a train to leave him. That's a long way. Yeah. So we get on the train. He's given me $5 for the 24 hour. Generous. Yeah, very generous.

Fucking prick. Yeah, we stop off like every hour or so, but I just kept in contact with him until we got to Townsville. And I remember sending him this text and I was like, I'm never fucking coming back. And I threw the phone in the bin. And then I got back on the train and went to Brisbane. Oh, my God.

Because I needed to give it enough time so that he couldn't catch up in the car. Can't imagine your feeling while you're riding. We've all written a text to someone where we're like, whether it's an angry text to someone or something that you're like, how is this going to go down and the adrenaline behind that. You can imagine the adrenaline behind that text. Yeah. I'm never fucking coming back.

Yeah. You must have felt after you've done it like some sort of superhero. Oh, I felt invincible. It was, yeah. That's crazy. I got goosebumps. Yeah, you almost like want to tell someone on the train. You just did.

Yeah. I mean, what was it like getting to the other end and essentially seeing a loved one or a friend? Was it just utter relief? Oh, yeah, it was. But there was also that fear of is he here? Did he follow me? That feeling stayed with me for like a month or two months.

Like is he going to come after me? He knows where my parents live. He knows where I am. So there was still fear, but it's a long way from Cairns. Did he ever, did he ever try and? He did, but I had my friends with me. So I never kind of was, I met up with him like twice because he wanted to see Tisha, which obviously I didn't want to kind of be that parent where I didn't let him see his kid. But I always had friends with me. In those moments where you did see him, was he trying to convince you it all had come back? Oh, yeah, definitely.

Did you consider it? No, no. I broke up with him months before I actually left. And that's what helped me kind of leave. I detached any sort of feeling or anything towards him like three or four months before I actually physically left. Wow. And so when you're back in Brisbane, are you living with your family again? For a little bit. So again, like me and my mum have a very tricky relationship. So I stayed with my mum for about three weeks and then I went to live with my best friend. Yeah. Wow. Wow. That's such an amazing story. Having to rebuild after that. I mean, you've

recognised that I could have a life that's better rebuild after that, I mean, you've recognised that I could have a life that's better than this. You've escaped. You've got down. You're living with your friend. You've got Letitia. Like what happens next? Yeah, I wasn't really focused on guys because I was more focused

on being a good mum for Tisha. Like that has always been my goal. Like remember when I was saying I went from a D student to an A student, like she has always been, yeah, a hundred percent. And I know this, you know, stats for teen mums aren't the best. So I was really determined to kind of not be the stereotypical teen mum. So I came back to Brisbane. I actually tried to finish year 12 again through TAFE. I got a job and then I ended up getting promotions within the job. So I gave up on the idea of finishing year 12 and just kept working my ass off and never stopped.

When you think back to that time where you got that phone and you're able to make contact with your friends back in Brisbane, was there anything that they did or way that they behaved that really helped you? My friends? Yeah. I'm just thinking if there is anyone else out there who may have a friend who's going through something similar and they're unsure of how they can support them. Yeah. I think my friends were really patient with me because when you're in a toxic relationship, you can, you always go back and forth. Well, for me personally, I don't know about anyone else, but for me, I was breaking up with him, getting back with him, fighting with him, going to women's shelters, going back and forth. And there was a lot of that. And then to have a

friend who would hear that day in, day out and, you know, constantly remind me that I can do better, I can live a better life and just put up with listening to that meant the world to me. Because there's so many people that, well, I don't know if there's so many people, but there would be a few people who would be like, oh my God, girl, how many times do I have to tell you to leave him and like not kind of give you the time of day? Sometimes you just want someone to hear you, not try and give you the immediate solution. You know what the solution is really deep down, but it's kind of like someone who can stick by you.

That's pretty powerful. Yeah. It shows a good friend. A hundred percent. Yeah. So that's why whenever I talk to my girls about this, the biggest red flag for me is when a partner starts trying to cut your friends and family out because I needed that. I needed my friends. I needed my family. And that's something that he literally physically flew me across the

country, you know, on the opposite side of Queensland to kind of get me away from that. So whenever I hear someone saying, oh, he doesn't like my best friend, I'm like, hmm, why? Yeah. Because you like your best friend, right? Yeah. Keep in touch with your friends. Do not cut them out.

Whenever you get in a new relationship, always make time for your friends. Yeah, because I think we've all had friends, you know, male, female, that when they get into a relationship, it's like, where have they gone? Yeah. You know? Your energy becomes invested in that. Yeah, and you don't know if it's just all their energy because they really just want to be with each other

and they really enjoy each other's company or if there's any hate towards a friend group or whatever it might be or if it's that because it could so easily be disguised as one or the other. Yeah. It's a scary thought. I mean, both Matt and I have, Matt's got two girls, I've got a girl and a boy and even for a boy, like them growing up, it's like, you know, when they start to date and stuff like that,

it's like what do you do as a parent when you see that happening? Is it love or is it manipulation? Yeah, it's really tricky. Like I remember when Tisha started dating and she's dated some interesting characters. There was this one particular guy was giving me really bad vibes. I think this is why it's so important to have a good relationship with your kids where they feel like they can talk to you openly because they tell you things that happen within the relationship. It's also hard as a parent to, how do you tell your kid you think that person is a psycho without- Do you feel like your mum? Almost how your mum was towards you. Exactly. Well, that's why I was like I don't want to be that.

And you don't want to drive them into their arms a little bit too. So it's like a, it was a weird, I remember having this conversation with Tisha and just being like, look, this is what I think is happening. Obviously, I trust your judgment. You're a smart woman, but I want you to know that this is what I can see. And within a few weeks, she broke it up with him. And I was like, thank God. It's nice that she took on what you had to say

and probably took some time to think about it instead of just being like, well, I hate you now because you hate him, you know. So, yeah, I mean, we've spoken about that before about being able to communicate with your kids but not just with those things but also the good things as well because then it might give them a bit more encouragement to come to you with things that aren't so good.

Yeah, for sure. What's it like trying to get back into dating when not only have you come from such a traumatic experience, but I guess you've not really even experienced a really healthy relationship because one of your first ones, you know, was when you were 16 and 17. So how do you start trusting men again and starting to get back into dating? It's funny you say that because after that incident and I did start dating,

I actually started dating one of my best friends. So, but I think that's because, um, I trust, yes, I already trusted him. He made me laugh. You know, we had a good relationship already. I think that's a great foundation to finding out who makes a good future partner, right? Making sure you can have fun with them and that you're their friend. I think that's what helped for me, probably dating one of my besties. Helped you build your confidence.

It's a good way to start. I mean, how long did that last? It wasn't like serious, serious. We made clear guidelines where we're like, we're just going to be friends with benefits. Okay. And then. Never works out.

Yeah, it was only like three or four months and we decided, we're still friends now, so. And I don't want to skip too far forward because we go through your whole dating life. But your husband, Jonathan. Yes. So you've been with him for 16 years? No, I've been.

17? Yeah, 16. Wait, what month? Yeah, 16 years. Wow. Yeah, crazy. That is crazy. What was it about Jonathan that you thought,

this could be the guy for me? Obviously, when I first saw him, I was like, damn, he's cute. But then like getting to know him, he was just a really nice guy. Like I remember when I went on my first date with him and I was like, so I've got to tell you something. And he's like, do you have a boyfriend? And I was like, no, I just have a kid. And he was like, what? But no, he was just a really cool, fun guy. And like I was saying before, he felt like my friend.

Amazing. And then how was it going back into the world of being pregnant again for a second time? It was so different because I actually, so when I'm, when Jonathan asked me to marry him, I actually said, I will, but just so you know, I'm not having any more kids because yeah, I was so traumatized from my experience. Did he say, okay, sure. Was he like, let's just.

He was fine with it. If you were happy. Yeah. He was like, okay, if that's what you want, then that's it. Which makes a lot of sense. I get it. Yeah, yeah. But then when did the thought creep into your mind that maybe I could go back for a second?

Five years into being married and my grandma actually passed away and I was sitting at her funeral and my granddad was sitting there with his two sons on either side of him. And I was like, I think I want to have another kid. Oh, shit. Yeah. And so after, because I didn't want my husband to, like, obviously he brought up Tisha like his own, but I just wanted him to have his own too. And that relationship between him and Tisha, has that always been rock solid? Oh, yeah, they're besties.

Oh, that's great. I love that, yeah. And then was there anything that you learnt as a first-time mum that came in handy second time round or did you just completely clean the slate? I think what I loved about being a mum the second time around is I didn't have so many people giving me their unsolicited advice and I just ran with being a mum. I wasn't so crazy about sleep schedules and feeding every three hours. I kind of just did what felt best for me. Whereas

with Tisha, I felt like I was bombarded with so much information and it was very overwhelming. And I didn't give her the dummy, thank God. The dummy ruined my life. I'm so glad that my kids both didn't latch onto it. Well, there was one point where I was like, oh, my God, just give Deja the dummy, and it was too late at that point. She just spat it out where I was like, oh, my God, just give Deja the dummy. And it was too late at that point. She just spat it out. And I was like.

And then do you remember when you first publicly told your story? Yeah, so it was actually really random when I decided to share my story because at that point on social media I was just sharing like recipes. People were slowly learning more about me through those recipes. So they were like, wait, you have a 17 year old daughter? Like what the hell? Yeah. Yeah. And like questioning in the comments. And I was like, maybe I'm just going to give these guys like a little bit of a story time about my life. And I remember posting it and it just blowing up people, friends, like from primary school, from high school were like, oh my God, my child is watching your video. That's

so crazy. And I was like, what the hell? Anyone who you were like, you used to fucking bully me. Yeah. There were a few of those. Did anyone apologize or? were a few of those. Did anyone apologize or? No. No. I mean, once your life blew up in terms of your story and then, I mean, you've built this, essentially you've built this empire being a mom and being a business person. You do everything with your family. Like you've got a really successful podcast with, with, with Letitia and and it's like what's it like working so much with your kids? I mean, for me, I'm not there yet but. I love it. Like working with Letitia is, I know this sounds corny,

but it is literally like working with my best friend. Same thing as Deja and sometimes I have to kind of remind myself I'm the mum, like I need to be more mature. You know what I mean? It's a whole heap of fun. There's obviously some ups and downs where we spend so much time together, but this is what I've always wanted. Like I've always wanted to be really close with my family and yeah, it's great. And how does it feel now that she's flown the nest? You know what? The first like month was really hard. Nobody prepares you for this. Nobody. Do you remember how the conversation went about when she said, I think I want to move out of home?

Well, the first conversation happened when she was working at a nightclub and working like six hours a week. And she's like, I'm moving out with my friends. I'm like, you make like $50 a week. How are you going to do that? And so I convinced her not to. Then I was like, why don't you just save? Like you have no rules at home. Like we're pretty chill parents. Like, you know, just stay at home, save. And then when you're ready why don't you just save? Like you have no rules at home. Like we're pretty chill parents. Like, you know, just stay at home, save. And then when you're ready, you can buy your first home. She really didn't want to, but she did.

And then when she finally bought her unit, it was still really hard for me to kind of let go. And I remember the first night, like we were all in her house and we're like, okay, we're going to go now. She's like, mum, can you just stay? It's so lonely here. And I was like. This is what you wanted. And I remember like walking out the door to the car

and her just like closing the sliding door. And I was like bawling my eyes out because I was like left her there home alone in this quiet little apartment. How far away was it from yours? 30 minutes but still it's just like the thought of her being in a home by herself she had hardly any furniture in there at that point as well so it was just it's tough. Yeah I can't even imagine what that's going to be like can't wait for mine to move out i used to say that too i really did it's tough but now i'm like oh god go home she comes over still eats all my food i'm like what are you doing here you have your own place and then when there comes a time where

deja's not at home anymore what do you want your girls to remember when they think back to the house that they grew up in? I just hope they, when they think back, that they feel a lot of love and that everything we did was for them because it literally is. And I'm sure most parents can relate to that. We work hard for our babies to have a nice life. For sure. Yeah.

Well answered. I want to say thank you so much. Thank you. You tell an extremely difficult story in a really articulate way. And I can't even begin to imagine what it must have been like being so young, being so vulnerable and having to escape someone so awful. But your story, Kat, it's nothing short of remarkable. You should be so immensely proud of just how brave

and courageous you were when you were incredibly young. So thank you so much for sharing your story with us. Thanks for listening, guys. It's such an eye-opening story to hear. I mean, Matt and I don't often get to sit down with someone with a story like yours and people that listen to us are really going to appreciate it and we appreciate you and everything you've said.

Thanks for listening, guys. Thank you. I want to give you a big hug. Yeah. a big hug. We are so immensely grateful to Kat for her bravery in sharing her experience, including her journey through domestic violence. If you or someone you know is in need of support, please do not hesitate to reach out to 1-800-RESPECT. We will also leave some further resources in the notes of this show. Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians

of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to their elders, past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. This episode was recorded on Gadigal land.