Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash - #67 Doting Mum Julia Morris On Divorce, Miscarriage And Menopause

Episode Date: May 19, 2024

It's the Queen of Gosford herself! Lady Julia Morris, the doting mother of two young ladies, drops by post-jungle fever to share the good, the bad and the relatable of parenting.  It's safe to say Matty J and Ash had no idea what they were getting themselves into, but keep up and enjoy the ride as Julia chats about how she dealt with divorce and telling her kids, miscarriage and the chaos of menopause. Julia is a long-time Aussie comedian and the much-loved co-host of Australia's version of I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here!  Slide into our DM's @twodotingdads with any parenting question you need answered by a couple of doting dads. If you need a shoulder to cry on:  Buy our book: https://www.penguin.com.au/books/two-doting-dads-9781761346552  Two Doting Dads Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/639833491568735/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheTwoDotingDads  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/twodotingdads/  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@twodotingdads  Email: [e-mail] omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Well, well, well. Well. Look who's got a bonus episode out today. It's us. And our guest today, fresh from the jungle, it's the Queen of Gosford herself, Julia Morris. Lady Julia Morris. She is a seasoned Aussie comedian who I've loved for a very long time, Ash.

She has won hearts as the beloved co-host of the Australian version of I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here. And Matt, she's also a doting mother of two young ladies in their teens, Ruby and Sophie. And Ash, I think it's safe to say that we had no idea what we're getting ourselves into. Julia takes us on a journey from her recent divorce to experiencing a miscarriage mid-flight and dealing with the chaos of menopause during live TV. But Ash, we kept up with her every step of the way. Somehow.

Enjoy. Welcome back to Two Doting Dads and One Doting Mum. I am Matty J. I'm Ash. And I'm Lady Julia Morris of Gosford. This is a podcast all about parenting. It is the good. It is the bad.

And the relatable. And normally we do not give any advice. None whatsoever. But Julia. Maybe. I feel like you are bursting at the seams with advice to give. I just came in with a book. She's like, advice, advice, advice.

I'm always full of news. I'm always full of news. I've got a suggestion at every turn of the weird Rolodex in my head that just keeps squirting forward sentences and not every sentence makes it. We will be your sponges. You keep squirting. And hopefully by the end we'll be coming out of this a lot wiser than before.

And I do have to say, looking divine in mustard. Thank you so much. Or moutard, as we say in France. Moutard. No, I just made that up. I'll just stick with mustard. I think it's best. It's nice.

It's a lovely hint of yellow. It is. It's really. I took my green jumper off because I thought we might look like the Wiggles too much. Oh, well. All of us are in colours. I was like, oh, fuck, I better just put my shirt,

leave a white shirt on. It looks perfect. I popped in this morning to get a hire car with a non-Spawn hire car company and I was in the company colours. So I took a photo of myself but because I was waiting, they were like, sorry to keep you waiting. I'm like, no, you're not keeping me waiting. I'm in the company colours.

Everybody turns around to look at this maniac who's now yelling from the back of the non-spot car company. Were people coming up to you being like, just returning my keys? There you are. Pretty much. They're like, why is that elderly lady? Julia, if we go back, let's go back to the beginning. I want to know if a young Julia a much younger Julia even

a Julia let's say in a teenage years was she similar to how Julia is now I'd say exactly the same but now with the confidence to let some of those ideas out of the head rather than just keeping them to myself but I definitely knew I was going to be a parent. I never really thought about how I wouldn't. That wasn't talked about when I was growing up sort of in the 70s and the 80s. No one ever talked about the option of not being a parent. That's interesting, yeah.

I just knew it would happen at some time and so by the time I met my partner in my early 30s, we didn't have our babies until I was 38 and 40 for my second one. Okay. So that was quite late for, well, for Gosford. No judgment. That is late for Gosford. Shout out to our Gosford listeners.

Great grandmothers, how are they going? Oh, yeah. Don't worry, we picked it up and put it down. No, we did. That's too far, but we'll get in the right room. Protection's key. Exactly. Protection is key. So, and I did That's too far, but we'll get in the right room. Protection is key. Exactly. Protection is key.

And I did lots of babysitting and I always enjoyed that. So, yes, I didn't. I thought that I would be a really chill, amazing, ready mum. And when did you get your first taste of TV? Oh, at 17 I was at Santa Sabina in Strathfield at school doing the HSC and I snuck away from school and did an audition for New Faces. Yeah. Because I thought I could sing.

I'd never had a lesson. I'd never sung in front of anybody. Did a lot of, you know, mirror time obviously in my own private chambre. Singing in the shower. Anywhere, any location where there's a lift. What was the song you sang? Holding Out for a Hero from Footloose. I wish we had that audio.

If only it was here. That would have been. I mean, you'll hear it. It's on the worldwide interweb. Oh, hopefully we can. Oh, no. We've got it. Julia Morris from New South Wales.

Oh, look at Bert. Look at Bert. Love him. Please make a welcome. Okay, what you're looking at here is I borrowed that top from my mum's friend Margot because it had sparkles on it. We weren't a showbiz family. And I've got my mother's graduation black jets on.

Whatever, don't want to brag. Where have all the good men gone and where are all the gods? I was growing out what looks like the exact hairdo I've got now. It's a mum bob already. It's a full mum bob. 17. Look at that, she's lifting. You're actually a really good singer.

I mean... No, you're very good. When the letter came from Channel 9 to say you're in the show, my mother was like, what is this? Because she'd opened the letter. So what is that? They didn't know you auditioned? No.

Oh, so you didn't tell your parents? No, I literally snuck out from school and went and did the audition in my kilt, in my school kilt, and we had a bowler hat. Jeez, it was a good look. It was hot. On the side? Hot on the station. Actually, sometimes you stand on Strathfield Station

and you could de-kilt someone if you did the right run up and got the little clip on the side loose. Just school kids are so mean. I was de-kilted. No, I was standing in. And that's how my first child was born. Pretty much. But also standing in a stocking sock, you know,

on McDonald Town Station or something like that. I was like, yeah, no, it's not ideal. And so did you confide in anyone? Did you look for, you know, your friends and say, I'm thinking about doing this audition. Do you think I should, shouldn't I? Or did you just run with it? I don't think so.

Like I have got a, as a massive people pleaser, I also have a really odd sense of self. Like I just wake up happy most days just going, I'm unreal. Like I genuinely feel like that. Obviously you see a photo and you're like, wow, I wonder who that strange fat boy is in my dress. Do you know what I mean? Like it's not an idea.

Don't look at photos I think is the key there. But I have, it's like a, it must be a mental health condition. It's like a self-confidence to you. Yes, and I wonder if that is having a childhood where I was from a family where there wasn't flowery compliments in those days. Parenting was done in an entirely different way and it was sort of perfunctory, you know. The idea was to get the children busy so that you could have some time,

which, I mean, hasn't changed much. But a lot of that time, as long as the children were away, that was parenting. As long as their silence was successful parenting back in those days. So, you know, it wasn't the how do you feel of these days, which are important times. How do you feel is important. So how did your parents respond to you being on TV?

They were kind of like, well, they did not say can you even sing, but they were like, well, I don't understand. Do they sing? Are they musically inclined? No. No. No, not showbiz. My dad was track manager at Gosford Race Club

and my mum worked as a secretary for a surgeon. What's this? Yeah. And I'm like, I'm going to go on showbiz. We had to fly down. We didn't have much money growing up. There was enough to survive and tra-la-la. But so my mum had to get, Channel 9 got me a flight to go down

because I was 17 to shoot the show in Melbourne. But we couldn't afford for my mum to get the big fancy ticket of Anset Australin Airlines. So she had to do this, what we called back in the day a mail run, where you get on the plane in Sydney, then you stop in, you know, Goulburn, then you stop at Wagga, then you stop in West Wyalong. I didn't know you could do that. Yeah, and then she was delivered at a similar time to me in Melbourne.

That's how we timed those flights. She just left like four weeks earlier. She just had to get a 12-hour train. And I was just like, I'll be up the front if you need me. So and then we were in Melbourne. It was so exciting. I'd never been on a plane before and came down and did the show and got a tie first.

You killed. No, it's very modern here. Full disclosure, we watched that before you came. Amazing. And it was all stuck in our heads and we were like, we need to get it out. Before she gets it, she's going to know. My mum says if you can't get a song out of your head,

give it a big finish. We really need it. It's a whole thing out for a hero. There you go. It's definitely gone now. Did it help with boys coming off the back of that performance? You're 17. No, because I was loud.

I was loud. And what I now suspect may be ADHD, which I know every young person is kind of like, well, yeah, duh, just have a look at you and listen to the rhythms of your sentences. I'm also the same. I'm like, yeah. But I feel like in looking into that over the last couple of years, not for me, but I haven't been looking into it for me.

But as I started to read all the research, I'm like, oh, my God, that's my daily. I know. We were talking about TikTok before and I watched one ADHD video because I'm very suspect of myself. Yeah. And then it's just like, you must love this shit. And I'm just like, I have that.

I have that. I know. But then those with diagnosis get super cross with us who just assume. Yes. You should never assume. I don't mean to be rude, but for the moment, I just don't want to drop the two grand on the test. Yes.

Yes. Ash did do an online test. Oh, like a disco five questions. And it broke the website. It crashed. They were like, you need help. Yeah. So as a business, we've decided. We'll send you a business, we've decided to use the money out of the business

to make sure I'm okay. Well, what's interesting is the A in ADHD actually stands for Ash and that's what people don't know about this whole thing. Yeah, amazing. Has there ever been a battle between wanting to be in showbiz and then wanting to be a mum? That's a great question. No, because in my life growing up, they ran alongside. My mother always worked. So that was absolutely modelled behaviour for me. And I knew,

say if I was away for, let's use the jungle as an example, where I'm away for six weeks, and I knew that the children were with my husband in their home, in their schedule, doing their things. If there's one thing, because part of my brain thinks, everyone wants to come to Africa. They can just hang and wait until I've finished work and we're all away and then we can walk around, whatever. No, because the kids have got no business with it. Certainly I feel like for the first nearly 10 years all they want

is that routine. Yeah. So they know where they're up to. But it's my brain that goes, we need a holiday. Should we do something? But the kids, even my teenagers have just recently let me know we don't want to go away for the rest of the year. With you.

I don't want to pry too much into the split, but I am intrigued to know at what point do you look at the relationship and go, do you know what, it's just best if we go our separate ways? I reckon I felt that way. I saw it back in previous interviews for nearly 10 years. Wow. And after we broke up, my agent said to me at the time,

the agent that I had at the time is Romain, a great friend, she said, you said 10 years ago, how's this, I don't even remember this, you said 10 years ago I would leave him but he would get the kids. I was like, I don't remember saying that. I remember feeling like that but I don't remember saying that out loud to another human because when you're married, it's just you two doing that sort of chat back and forth

until you work it out in your head and, you know, if you are lucky enough to have the window into a psychologist that you trust, then you definitely get to sort out your own maths in your own head. But I was like, wow, I mean, that was now longer, like 12 years ago. So looking back at that, do you remember why you would have potentially said that?

Do you know? I think we were in a smart-ass pattern. What do you mean by that? As in like we would sort, if we had any issues with each other, it would be sorted out in a smart-ass fashion. Yes. So looking back. My wife's not listening.

But a lot of that time, I think in those first 10 years, you're just trying to hold on and get through the day and you cannot believe you've never been so busy in the whole of your life. You've been so tired in the whole of your life. I liken it to I'm working on The Jungle. It's six weeks. It's a brutality that knows no bounds. It's like six days a week, 14-hour days.

It's hardcore, right? And by the end of the shoot and we're in South Africa and we're having the best time, but all you want to do is go home. And it's not that you want to go home, it's that you want to break from the relentlessness. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I'm like, no, I'd rather, I'm happy to stay in South Africa and then do some more work maybe at the end of next week.

So I think parenting feels like that. You actually just want this nightmare of everything to calm down. Even just for a moment. Just to calm down, absolutely. So you're in this cycle of smart assness. Yeah, so smart ass. So then we'd make up and we would have a lovely time and then I guess the pattern of the smart ass would start again

and then a bit of meanness and then the sweetness again. and then a bit of meanness, and then the sweetness again. So, you know, and I think if I do have ADHD, I might not have noticed all of those things happening because then we just get to a nice bit again. Oh, great, I've got my husband back. When it came to the separation, at what point did you decide that it was the right time to tell the kids? Oh, well, we actually had a very nice experience for the breakup moment

because I had been to the psychologist. I was just like, I cannot be back here again. I kept going back to the psychologist going, is this over? And then somehow I'd just be like, oh, well, but just the basic maths of the breakup. I'm like, I don't even know how to unweb that web. Not that I was staying in a dangerous situation, neither were my children. Let's be definitely clear about that. But I was just like, it was literally too hard admin-wise to leave. Because when we would have fights, I'd say, hey, listen, that's the door.

So that's got a handle on it. It's not that easy. You don't. So if this is all not working out for you, how about you head on your way because we will survive beautifully. So that threat I reckon I did every year for 10 years. Wow. But I know now that, you know, threats within relationships are BS.

They're just a stupid move to get whatever reaction it is that you need or, you know, whatever nurturing or response that you need. So it was a Saturday morning and I stayed in bed because I was doing my, like, I just can't even bother speaking to him. I'll just stay in bed for hours. And then I called him up and I just said, hey, listen, do you know what? You're not happy and I'm not happy and this is not really a way for us to live.

So I think we should consider separation. And I didn't know how he would react. I didn't know, is he going to get super angry? Is he going to laugh? I didn't know what he was going to do. Did you have to build the courage up to have that conversation or were you just at a point you were ready for that conversation? Oh, I was ready.

Or did you sit there? Oh, no, but it was the culmination of all my flight and fight and people pleasing and all of that. And so I was pretty calm about it and he said, oh, thank God because I feel the same way. Oh, wow. Oh, great. So I was like.

All right then. And then we sat on the bed together because we decided we'd heard this thing called nesting where you can, if you are in the luxurious position enough to be able to afford even a one-bedroom apartment, I mean, as if anybody can, you know, afford a second place, but you're going to have to if you're getting a divorce. So we used that. Each parent would change.

We left it looking like a service department with our little bits and pieces in it and then week on, week off. So the children stayed in the house and we would move. Dan and I would pack our bags and we would go. And the kids were informed. They weren't just like, where the fuck is mum? In answer to your question five hours ago, though. We told them the next day.

Wow, that quick. Well, we just, everything was right about it. Did you announce it? Or did you just like get around the table? Having dinner and just go. The reason I ask that is my wife, her parents got divorced. They're great friends now, which is great. But they were on a cruise ship and April's mum,

sorry April for telling this story, by the way, April's mum announced it. At the captain's table? I don't know. But I picture the announcement. The speaker. Ladies and gentlemen. Me and your father are getting divorced.

We have been after many years of tennis. No. This will be the last ship we sail. They were kind of interesting because they were 13 and 15. Yeah, exactly the same as April and Bella. They kind of took it in and then they had a little cry and then they popped upstairs because that was kind of their sanctuary, they had a little cry and then they popped upstairs because that was kind of their sanctuary, their own bedrooms where they, you know,

felt I guess safest in life as we all do. And then they have told me since many times we were just like it was a matter of time. After you've made the decision, you've told the kids, it's all out there with the family. Did you feel a sense of relief? Because you go through, similar to getting married, you go through a honeymoon period. So you're just like, I just want the best for you, love.

And because there was no cheating or spookiness or whatever. It just run its course. Yeah, and probably did a long time before that. So there's a honeymoon period post-breakup. Yeah. So your slay period, as I'm calling it. Well, I think what happens is one partner usually goes out and has a roll around with literally everybody and then the other one,

I don't know, does the clean-up. I don't know what goes on. Were you the clean-up or were you the? Look, I was very busy in my 20s and my early 30s. I feel like I had my ration of roots. And so. Who says you need a ration root? Yeah, I need to.

I mean, everyone rations roots these days, you know. We're in difficult times. The Great Depression. I did not feel that at all. I was just like all of a sudden I had to learn how to do the maths. Like I hadn't done any of the book work in 20 years. I hadn't put a tax return in. You know, my company did all that.

So instead of having a bookkeeper, my ex did all of that. So I all of a sudden had to learn who we bank with. And I know there's lots of people who are like these days you're like never, ever lose your own bank account. You must always keep your own bank account. But, like, we were together for 20 years. You know, it just all goes in. It just all goes in.

I don't know. That's just how it was sort of easier for us. So just getting all of that separated, I reckon when I say honeymoon period, I didn't quite realise that the admin avalanche was coming. We chat about like the responsibilities that we have in the house. So Matt, for example, when it comes to the cars, registration, getting them servers. Laura has no fucking clue.

So you can imagine like all these things you'd have. Yeah. Holy shit. I mean, it's everything. It's kind of like them sacking an employee where you're working and they're like, these things you'd have. Yeah. Holy shit. I mean, it's everything. It's kind of like them sacking an employee where you're working and they're like, oh, you've got to do their work now. Absolutely. I feel like I might have let go one of the best executive assistants

I've ever had. But see ya. The other thing is it's very difficult to know how to parent through that moment, I think. Yeah. What was your reference point for how to do that right? I don't know how you do it right. Nobody knows how they're doing it right.

Even the experts will tell you what to do right, even they're not sure. Yeah. Because only you know your kids. And what works for you guys too. Absolutely. And you mentioned earlier it sort of helped you build this really good relationship now with your daughters. With the teenagers, all of a sudden I, oh, no, this is going to sound bizarre, but they sort of became you build this really good relationship now with your daughters. With the teenagers, all of a sudden I, oh, no,

this is going to sound bizarre, but they sort of became my partner. The time and effort and conversation and everything. I can just picture them doing your taxes. Yeah, yeah. So just as soon as they've registered my car, I should be out of here. Register it, clean it, insurance, thanks. So instead of sitting on the couch, what, by myself watching a movie, good times, I'll duck up and I'll be like, do you want those things?

You know, so I sort of become actually it's a reversal of roles. I've become their PA. I've become their loving PA. But I have been definitely putting much more loving, farrer time into them because I'm not married. So that entire section of your life that does take up time, that you want it to take up time. You want to step out and have date nights.

That's all I wanted to do was just for us to hang and be together. So, you know, yeah, putting that time now into the children and teenagers are fantastic, I think, with boundaries. So they'll be like, you can leave the room now. I was going to ask, do they welcome that? Yes. Here she comes again. Enough.

If I give them, like I take a 20-second travel tax hug if they cross my path. It's literally the only way. Travel tax. It's the only way you can get your hands on like teenagers, literally. Oh, my God. Please let's think about that sentence. What I mean is of course I'm here.

Get your hands on teenagers. I had one of my teenagers tell me, this would be two years ago, when all the upheaval was going on, and she said, I would like to be asked permission for hugs. And I was like at the time. I own you. Excuse me, DNA. And there is and we were definitely raised by parents who had that sense

of ownership over us, I think. And it makes sense. Like, you know, I have created every living moment for your life for the last however long. I will get a fucking hug whenever I want. Thank you very much. I'll be stepping up. Anyway, of course, you can hear all of that as I'm saying it now.

So then I'm like, hang on, I couldn't just walk up to someone on the street and have a hug. So why? Well, you can. So I'm definitely in that age group of one foot in the how very dear you'll hug me when I want and the age group of you are absolutely entitled to put your boundaries in. And if you don't feel like being bear hugged by when I want and the age group of you are absolutely entitled to put your boundaries in. And if you don't feel like being bear hugged by big old mama,

then absolutely. So they have been able to teach me lots of new ways to be for sure. But Sophie's mad for a hug. So she gets the 20-second travel tax hug and then Ruby, when she's ready, she likes to. She has a lot of maturity. Yeah. Well, she'll step forward.

Oh, my God. Ruby's like the guru. Ruby is like a full guru. So I'm speaking to her in the jungle a couple of weeks ago because they were at home with a sleepover nanny. That's the one thing about having older children. You don't need a nanny but you do need an adult in the house. So they don't want to be told what to do.

They don't want to bed time. They, you know, they'll be happy to prepare their own dinner and potter and do their own, well, I was going to say do their own washing, but I came home to 31 loads of washing. 31 loads of washing. My wife would be frothing on that. 31. I can't stop.

Oh, mind you, I did. I got it to ground zero. And no, Tom, I don't want to brag to you. Four days, non-stop, day and night. Lockdown. Laundry lockdown. Yeah, yeah, it's not ideal. Anyway, when I rang Ruby, we had these phone calls where we start

and how are you and da-da-da and having a chat and then all of a sudden like seriously, but love, can we da-da-da-da or if that bin doesn't go out, it's going to stink after two weeks or whatever the pedestrian conversation was that we were having. And she said, hey, Mum, when you call when you're away, I reckon focus on the things we're doing right. Gosh, she's good. Schooled you.

She's good. She's got you. So then you're like, I got off the phone from that. So when I was married and years ago I would have been like, don't speak to me like that, excuse me, I think you'll find, like all of that. But since that big shift I'm kind kind of like you're absolutely right. But I went away and thought about it and thought I do that all the time.

Are the bins out? Double checking the 50 lists I've already left for them. They've already done it. They don't do it when I'm at home because they're slow and I'll do that and tra-la-la. I'll get to it. I'll get to it. But they kind of turn into their own flatmates.

Yeah, absolutely. If I don't do it, no one's going to do it. But it's a very interesting window into parenting actually for children at any age. So instead of like don't swing on that because you're going to fall off and hit your head and da-da-da-da-da like we do, is just to go, oh, that swing goes high, but you're doing a great job of it. You're feeling secure on it.

Unreal. And allowing them to be part of the decision process because I think. And then figure it out. I mean, for 15 and beyond years as parents, we take so many of their decisions away from them. They're simply not allowed. And when they're little, you can just pick them up. Oh, yeah.

And remove them from that situation. I love the power. But then, guess what? Every, I think it is like it's terrible twos, but if you don't deal with your terrible twos, stand by for 10. Three-nagers. And then if you haven't dealt with them for 10,

stand by for 17. And then if you still haven't dealt with them by 17, then you've got someone who loves to get off their nut in their 20s beyond their capabilities. Wow. So the learning to say no to children kindly and properly, I think it goes a long way to helping some of those stages because they literally just turn again.

You're like, are we back to baby throw yourself on the floor practically? Yeah. I said to my nearly five-year-old, I was like, are we going to have to get you a cot? And whatever he was doing, he stopped it immediately. Amazing. Such a baby. I was like, your little sister's in a cot?

Do you want to swap and she can have a big bed? Yeah, she can do that. Can I ask, if we go back to when the kids are a bit younger, and I do, it's a very cliche term and everyone throws it out all the time and I'm going to do it. So I apologize in advance, but the juggling act of being a parent for you, it was a bit more full on because you've always worked incredibly hard and you've had periods where you've been in the States, you had periods where you've been in the UK. What was it like trying to juggle all that whilst also trying to raise two girls?

Until they're five, I was under the impression they just come with you. We just go together. So you just took them everywhere? Pretty much. Wow. But what I think that did now looking back mental health-wise is that that gave them too many changes. They'd make friends and we'd move countries. Then they'd make friends and we'd move countries. Then they'd make friends and we'd move countries.

And so if I had my time over, I'm not sure I would have pursued more global stuff at that time. I think I would rather have now, in hindsight, I would have just gone into one place and stayed there and started that safe nurturing earlier of like everything's fine, nothing's going to change. We got to the point where we'd moved houses so many times that when we would move house, the girls would get beside themselves

thinking some of their stuff would go missing because in the early days we thought we were clever, we'd get rid of all the shit we didn't like in the move. Yes. Then you'd get to the move and then we'd be like, I don't know where the, you know, the turtle, the seven-foot turtle went. They remember the most random shit.

And also then they start to get worried that their stuff is going to go missing because there's just no reason for it. So that's, you know, all those tricks that we think we do, like if you don't go to school, the police are going to come. All of that sort of stuff, it just, I'm telling you, it's coming back to buy you out. That's clever because we did talk about that and people were like, no, no, you need to make sure that they look at the police like they're there to protect you, not to be scared of.

Yeah. And I was like, what am I going to threaten them with? The SES. And also, to be fair, a lot of that parenting between, what, two and five is kind of threats, bribes and maybe a little bit of reasoning. So but I also think the continued, I'm jumping all over subjects. There's no way I've got ADHD. We're here, we're there, we're everywhere.

We're all over it. Because I've got that, you know, I've been very present in my parenting but I think moving all over the place, I'm not sure was one of the better decisions that we made. One thing that I struggle with as a parent is on Thursdays I've got both girls and it's our daddy day and it's one day of the week where I can, Laura's at work and so it's easier for me to give them attention and for them to want the attention

from me when there's no one else around. But I struggle with the fact that because I'm working Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, work just kind of spills over and I'll be trying to play like a picnic with the kids, but I'm trying to check my emails or I've got phone calls coming through. You can't help it when you're running your own business like that, huh? Did you ever struggle with that type of guilt when you've got a big show coming up and you're trying to play with girls, but at the same time you're worrying about, oh of guilt when you've got a big show coming up and you're trying to play with girls but at the same time you're worrying about, oh, fuck, I've got this huge stand-up gig

where I'm opening and... You would just do your parenting because that's that job that you just do and then I go to the shows at night. I always knew if the family came to, if I was doing a comedy festival, for example, I knew it was going to be a punish because every other comic sort of can have a little sleep in or, you know, can step out after the show. Whereas when your family are home, guess what, those kids are up early.

Yeah. So you kind of, I can't get into bed later than that. Especially if you're performing at night too, then you're like, you know, you finish too late. For your maximum level of energy at between 9.30 and 10.30. Oh, fuck that. I know. I know.

And then, oh, let's go to the park. I can't wait to see. Yeah, I'm going to get on a paddle board. I can't wait. And then I'm going to the gig. I'll be so whingy. That's the other thing. When you do have a partner, I think you just get really whingy.

I'm so whingy all the time. You're just whinging each other, yeah. Just whinging. I know. So getting out of that. About anything too. Oh, I'm just like this guy today, he shouldn't have said that or the girl, whatever.

I'm just like. There's one particular story when you talk about you've got work, you've just got to show up, get it done, move on. There's one particular story that I heard about. It was a long time ago but you're on a flight. Oh, the South Africa flight? Yeah. Yeah.

It wasn't for I'm a celebrity. It was, okay. So Dan and I were not married. We were engaged to be married and then I fell pregnant and I had to go to do the Cape Town Comedy Festival. So is this pregnancy number one? Yeah. Yeah. And so the Cape Town Comedy Festival was for six weeks. So I didn't want to, you know, annoy them by telling them, but I was still, you know, looking after myself and doing that, so, you know, having a, oh, it's all, oh, this is exciting. We knew we were going to get married anyway, so you're like it's just a different order, no one cares.

So six weeks in Cape Town meant that we were just in, you know, phone contact. London had been that big bombing. Oh, yeah. Yes. With the buses and the Northern line. And so I went to fly home after the six weeks, the comedy festival was a great success and I was tickety-boo and I got onto the flight and I realised that I thought, oh, I'm bleeding as I was getting on the flight,

had nothing with me, no preparation, no nothing. And it's a nine-and-a-half-hour flight, right? Yeah. So for some reason I just went to the bathroom and I was like, oh, okay. So I was in the bathroom for ages and I'm like, okay, this is happening. That's okay, this is happening. Did you think instantly like this isn't good or this is? I just assumed if you're bleeding it's not good. Yeah. One would assume that, yeah.

But you do hear lots of success stories as well where there was bleeding and then, you know, twins have been born or whatever. Oh, really? So, yeah, definitely. You can definitely have the presence of that. For someone with two kids, I'm very green on this subject. So I was sitting next to the comedian Andrew Maxwell, who is a very funny Irish comedian, and I came back from the bathroom

and he goes, how long was the poo that you had to do that you were in the bathroom that long? Sorry, sorry, sorry. I shouldn't laugh. And we do have a little bit of gallows humour in comedy world and I just sort of, but I was, so he totally forgiven for the joke, he had no idea. And I just said, I think I'm having a miscarriage.

And he had a child. He already had, he was a partner and a child. Holy shit. So he was just like, okay, what do we do? And sort of swung into action. Do you want me to go and what do I need to find? Did you want to get off? No, he was like, do you want me to go and find a pad or something?

Yeah. He was just this glorious human who got it. He all of a sudden turns into a paramedic. He's like, how do I? I think when you've got a child, every man who has a child who's been there for the birth, you kind of are a paddermedic because you're side by side. I fainted so I wasn't there for mine.

It was a planned C-section. But you're in the air at this point. Yeah, and I know I've got, what, eight and a half hours to go. Oh, my fucking God. And then the pain started, like the proper period pain weirdness where you think the bottom of your pelvis is going to fall off. So there was really. I'll take your word for it.

I kind of just had to sit there. For that long. Yeah. And I was sort of, I did, I guess I was sitting there along as kind of the sadness of, oh. But I also knew we'd try again. I got home from that big tour and I was tired anyway. I'm a little bit like I am now.

I've just finished The Jungle and you're so kind of erratic and chatty and whatever. And I just, Andrew Maxwell and his partner picked me up at the airport and drove me straight to the hospital and my partner met me there. So then you just do all the grown-up stuff at the hospital and you kind of go home and just think, well, this is shit. Yeah. Do you remember that feeling?

Yeah. I also was buoyed by the thought I'm just going to get back on it. Like I just, I would like to be pregnant. I was 38 and then I started to think, which again, fertility wasn't talked about as much as that. This is, you know, when I'm 56, it's 18 years ago. Your maths is outstanding. I know.

That's ridiculous, isn't it? That was great. I know. It's working. That's ridiculous, isn't it? That was great. I'm not even good at maths, so that's not ideal. On the spot math. That's because I'm doing the accounting, guys. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's kind of, I don't know, I think I took however many weeks on the couch to just, you know,

feel sad and sorry and have a glass of dry white wine. And I think, yeah, I think I was just like, oh, my God, my body's not working. I hope this is not how it's going to be. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm also like the Rolodex just keeps rolling in my head, so I'm kind of like I actually just want to feel better.

But it was weeks of sitting there feeling sad and sorry. Laura's had two miscarriages and I went through a period where I was, sounds really weird. And if anyone who hasn't experienced it may not understand, but I mourned my child, which was, you know, when we lost it, it was, it was very, very early in the stages of pregnancy. But did you feel like you had to mourn this child? I don't, I don't think that I felt. I did feel that sadness of loss. So I can't. Of course that's mourning.

But I don't know. I feel like I was, like anything in my life that I haven't done well or that I haven't been able to succeed at, I was just keen to try again. Yeah, okay. well or that I haven't been able to succeed at, I was just keen to try again. Yeah, okay. So I don't think I had, because it was, yeah,

I'm just not sure that I had fully absorbed the idea of it into my life yet because of the don't tell anyone for 12 weeks. I mean, I literally just hit the 12-week moment. So no one, your really close friends, they didn't know at this stage? Oh, and also I'm the mouth of the South. I told everyone. No, but then you've got to bring around and tell everybody then. And they're like, oh. But I reckon that's better.

I reckon people say don't tell anyone to 12 weeks. I say shut up. Tell everyone because otherwise people don't know what you're going through. It's like why is Laura in a mood this week? Is she not calling me back? Yeah, because we just lost a fucking baby. I think when you're actually going through stuff, I find I'm very talkative about all sorts of issues in my life.

Which is great. But when I'm actually going through it, it's like it's a media shutout. It's like a full lockdown. I just don't really talk about it everywhere and I'm not really a person who would pick up the phone and just go, I'm not doing well, would you come around? So I don't reach out like that. I kind of self-source I think because, you know,

that hyper-independence is for a reason. Back on Matt's point where it's like that for those first 12 weeks where you're, you know, both mum and dad or whatever the situation might be. Oh, you're like, don't buy clothes, don't buy clothes. Like you're doing all that because you're so excited because you know, we wanted it so much. I feel like it should be way more spoken about those times. The conversations you have with your friends about what's happening, what's happening now, what's coming up, what you're doing, how you're feeling should be, I remember April being like, don't tell anyone.

And at the time you're like, yeah, that makes sense. But now in hindsight, looking back and some of the struggles you see people go through and especially doing this podcast now where we get to meet people like you have had this and I've never had that situation. I think it should be like, celebrate your wins, talk out your losses. Yeah, definitely. Whoever made that rule of 12 weeks, don out your losses. Oh, yeah. Definitely. Whoever made that rule of 12 weeks don't say anything, fuck you. Don't quit me.

Was that old fashioned so that, I mean, maybe the 12 weeks gives women a chance not to be fired. Maybe, but that's also illegal. Well, or best. Many rivers to cross. I spoke the words so I didn't sing it so we don't have to pay for it. Fair enough. Yeah, but I think within 12 months we'd had Ruby.

But the thing is I would love people to speak about it more because what it will give us is a proper spectrum window snap, whatever is the expression, into the many different feelings you can have about it. So like you say when you're talking about mourning the loss of what could have been within our family, whereas I was in a different headspace of I just want to get on with trying again because I want that sadness to go away because that sadness

will be replenished by the happiness. I think a lot of young couples are shocked with the amount of variation. Well, also the amount of it. It's one in four pregnancies. Exactly right. And it's kind of like you were saying people need to talk about it way more, which is so true so that you kind of know and your expectations are there.

Like for me, and I hate being that guy where it's like, you know, we had two successful pregnancies. Fuck you. Sorry. How dare you in front of Julia and myself. I didn't know any different. I didn't know that there could be all these variations. And it's like now that, you know, as a young couple going into it,

if you don't know that and then all of a sudden it's a big shock when it happens, it's kind of like I think if you're talking about it more than you know what the expectation is and that it could happen. All of that knowledge is helpful. I mean it doesn't stop the hurt or the moment or any of that sort of stuff but, you know, if when you get the pregnancy test you already know you've sort of got 12 weeks that may or may not. I know that's so harsh as I say it out loud, I think,

because I'm long on the other side of it. But, you know, yeah, it's so individual and it's, you know, each couple sometimes within the couple one person is grieving a lot harder than the other. So you've sort of got to look after yourself a little bit at that time too because, yeah, no one knows how hardcore it is except inside your head. For sure.

Did it impact how anxious you felt then when you felt pregnant again? Definitely because I didn't believe it. So I'm like, this is not going to last. I was in that headspace. This is definitely not going to last. It's not going to last. It's not going to last. And then, you know, all of those correct targets started to go

and every doctor's appointment, every moment, every, you know, even if there's, you know, sometimes when you get a fluffy that moves around your stomach that's trying to find where the bottom is. Any movement. Story of my life. Any movement like that. You're like, is this, what's happening?

So it definitely, yeah, it took, I reckon it took six months in to believe it was really happening. Do you become like hypersensitive? Definitely. Is that something? I mean, I think I am anyway. Is that something? Oh, it's just a fart.

It's all good. Yeah, it's a fluffy on the move. Julie, this may come as a surprise to you, but the topic of menopause is one that Ash and myself don't have a lot of experience with. The word itself, menopause, and we have no idea about it. Well, no one ever wants to pause a man because they've got so much good stuff to say.

Well said. Thank you. I've always said that. Correct. Correct. Look, I feel like there's a lot of chat about it more and more, which is fantastic. I think when it happened for me, I was 45, which is very young.

When it starts to happen, what are the first symptoms? Okay, so what happens is basically it's the body slowing down because obviously it no longer needs to make a baby, right? So all of those areas go, you know, it's time for us to kind of shut up shop. So in shutting up shop, the body's like, no, I'm not letting go. I'm not letting go. It's in a turmoil. Yeah, it's like, no, I'm not letting go. I'm not letting go. It's in a turmoil. Yeah, it's like, no, no, no, no, I'm not letting go of my youth.

So then it sends these surges of hormones through your body going, I'm not letting go. I'm not letting go. And every time one of those surges happen, you're like, get your clothes off. Get your clothes off. You feel like you've run a marathon. And also it has this whoosh heat.

It's crazy. And that's when the aggression can, not for everybody, the aggression can start then where you've got absolutely zero patience. That's when I started to see a psychologist because I thought I am going to bash someone to death in the street. Wow. Because that's how, that's the term, my inner turmoil, that's how I felt.

I'm like, I'm going to fucking take someone out. Excuse my language. So I went to see the psychologist and she's kind of like, have you seen the GP? And I'm like, no, I'm 45. And she's like, okay, so what happens is these are the stages. You've got perimenopause and that's when your body goes, I'm thinking of shutting up shop soon.

That can take, I mean, perimenopause can take anything up to two or three years of just the solid as a rock intensity. And I feel like you've reached this professional apex where you're this dreamboat of an employee for all of your life and you hit that moment of perimenopause and you just turn into the absolute antithesis of everything you've worked for. I was nasty. How dare you?

Like impatient. And it's an OMG. And then every time one of those surges happens, I feel like it surges up a little bit of aggression as well. It's pretty hard. It sounds lovely. Then your periods decide that they may or may not come. I might be here this month or not here next month. Now, what's a period? They're like a really untrustworthy friend. Oh, never turning up, turns up when you least

expect it. They're flaky. Oh, absolutely. So then once you are clear of the period for 12 months, that's when you are in menopause. But the question I still cannot answer you is I don't know when you're meant to go on hormone replacement therapy and all of that because I didn't know that. I didn't think to question that and so I just went through the fury for I reckon about seven years. I'm rattled. You're on hormone replacement.

So that is an option for people and then I think there was, I, when what that does is it evens out those surges. So the body just goes, okay, I need some estrogen or whatever is lacking. I think the hormone replacement therapy stuff literally just evens you and makes you a bit more smooth. Some women will say you can't because it's bad for you. Some women will say, I didn't know I was menopausal

and I never had the hormone replacement therapy, but I have lots of friends who did and they were like, how did you get through it without going on that? That's so crazy. Wow. Yeah. You turn nuts. I can't wait.

And are you trying to, like you've got a job, right? Are you working through this period? Oh, yeah. No, I could have been on camera and those heat surges come on. Were you doing stand-up? Oh, yeah. Wait, wait, wait. You're on camera in TV and you're getting a hot surge.

Oh, yeah. The ratings went through the roof, Matt. You're just kind of like, oh, there's one. Oh, wow, that's a big one. How do you manage that? And also like, you know, sometimes when I'm getting through subjects and I forget the sentence that I'm going through, it definitely gives you a lot of that.

Yeah, right. So as we move into, and I'm 56, as I move closer to, say, a dementia age, I'm not going to be able to tell some of the differences because I'm already, the brain's already left the building nearly. So what do you do? How good are the stages of life? It's crazy.

Like we talk about like, I mean, how amazing women are, like they'd be able to give birth. We stub our toe and we'd be like fucking out for the cat. I'm out. I'm like 10 days. I need 10 days to recover. You go through childbirth and you go through having to, you know, raise a child, feed a child, and then all of a sudden it's like after,

you know, the kid's grown up. You've got through it all. Through it all. The kid's grown up and, you know, yours are teenagers now, and then all of a sudden it's like whammo, here's something else. Amazing. It's amazing. I'm blown away.

Oh, it's such a journey. They always say it's about the journey. Oh, look, I'm telling you it's about the destination. Let's not forget that men do get bad knees. We do get terrible knees. So it's an even keel. No, that's true. It can get tricky with some of that cartilage.

It's pretty bad. You guys have been so unwell. Do you come out the other end of menopause? Is it like, you know, you're different? Yes. But do you actually come out the other end of it? Yes, you it like, you know, you're different? Yes. But do you actually come out the other end of it? Yes, you do. In what way are you different?

I'm so lost. So once you've had no period for the 12 months and you are menopausal, in theory it all starts to even off after that, I think. So you can no longer identify as menopausal? No. Well, I think you just crossed over. I'm post-menopausal. It's yellow brick road shit, you know what I'm saying?

You've just got to get to the other side. But what then happens is the clarity returns and what seems to be the trend is that a swathe of women then from their 50s and beyond will go back and study. They'll upskill. They will find other ways to let their brains, you know, have a little run. So it actually then becomes quite a prolific time for women

after going through that monster. Where is that path going to lead you then, Julia? I don't know. I'm going to Betty White that shit. Yeah? I'm Betty White that shit. No, no, I'm just going to work until I'm in the clogs and in the ground. Oh, yeah.

Good on you. Planning on doing more stand-up, do you think? Oh, every two years I do a big tour because I like the audience to replenish and I like the material to replenish because it's got to be brand new every two years. Yeah. And then in the interim years I will then do like loads of corporate gigs and then, you know, please God,

the jungle still keeps rolling with my new beloved Robert. He's great, yeah. Oh, my God. He's really grown into TV. He's amazing. It was a red-hot series, by the way. Not just a Pascherigo. No, love it.

I thought it was fantastic. We had an absolute ball. I think all of the yumminess was leaking through the screen. We had such a good time. So, you know, that's always hard work, so it might as well be super fun. I've always asked my mum, who is now 72, I've always said, do you think you're going to start dating again? Like do you think it will happen?

What do you mean? Your mum, all right, that's going to be a really bad mum joke. I always like us kids, us kids, Julia, would always want mum to have someone. Do your kids say, mum, are we going through a hot flush for a second? I was like, what can I do? I'll warn you. Not for ages. How very dare you.

No, how dare you. I'm just trying to get a podcast done. No. Are you girls saying, Mom, let's jump back on that horse? Not at all. No. No way. No interest.

So I literally, I was getting a coffee yesterday, and this woman came up to me, I don't know, she goes, you, there was a whole lot of people around, she goes, you look amazing. I said, do you want to know why? I'm not married. That's schooled her, I bet. She's like, damn it.

I got so many laughs on that coffee line. I'm like, I hear you, brother. It's a silent sleeping. Time to stand up. Silent sleeping is everything. Showmanship. I think also I'm worried now that at 56, am I not moving into the sick years?

I'm not taking care of somebody else's arse. Oh, yeah, you don't want to go into a late relationship and then they're like, oh, by the way, I can't wipe my butt. I mean, you know what, it's not that I'm close to it and I'm always scanning. That's an old habit. You can't, you know, the snow leopard can only be asleep. It can never really.

You can't, you know, the snow leopard can only be asleep. It can never really. But I don't even understand how I will get to the bit of the pash. Just go for it, I say. No, but, you know, like first of all, I've got to fucking talk to someone. Excuse my language. First of all, I've got to talk to someone. Do you know what I mean?

And then I'll be like, am I in a bar? You've got to pretend to be interested in what they're talking about. I dare say I feel like the talking part may not be a struggle for you. I don't think it's going to be an issue. I think all I will be doing is looking for red flags. Yeah. My auntie, after their divorce, she started dating a bikey. Bikey, did she? Yeah.

Well, she wanted to tell you it's a biker. A biker. Biker boy. Yeah, biker. He was disgusting. Was he? Yeah. He came to Christmas once. Let's biker. A biker. Biker boy. Yeah, biker. He was disgusting. Was he? Yeah. He came to Christmas once.

Let's get the fuck out of here. Let's just say that if any bikey's listening, we love you all. Hey, look, I mean, I've got a lengthy bikey story, but it's not for now. It's another time. It's a backstage story, but, you know, just ride those roads. Stay safe out there, guys. Always indicate a little one to the top, one to the bottom

to say thank you as you go past and everyone's happy. Julia, I have to say, and I'm not just saying this because you're sitting in front of me and I'm trying to be polite, I've been a huge fan of yours for a very long time. Thank you. And we have tried to get you on the podcast for a little while. I know. And I'm so bloody happy that it's happened, that you're here.

Same. So thank you very much. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure. I loved it. Until next time. Yippee! Do I dare say, Ash, that that was my favourite record so far?

Yeah. Do I dare say that? I dare say. You dare. I dare. We all dare. I've done it. You've done it.

If you think this is our best episode, hey, why don't you? Just an idea. Just a suggestion, you could leave a review. You could. Five stars, a couple of comments. Some nice words. About me, Ash or Julia. We can pass them on to Julia. We'll take them as our own.

We've got a number now, so we'll be in contact. Any other suggestions for guests that you would like us to interview on the podcast, please send them our way. And we'll see you next week bye bye two doting dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout australia and their connections to land sea and community we pay our respects to their elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. This episode was recorded on Gadigal land.