Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash - #70 UFC Dad Alex Volkanovski On Why Parenting Is Tougher Than The Octagon

Episode Date: June 2, 2024

Alex Volkanovski says parenting makes UFC fighting feel like a walk in the park.  Well, we won't be jumping into the ring with the bloke anytime soon! UFC former lightweight world champ, Alex Volkanovski is known as Alexander the Great in the octagon but is also a doting dad to three young daughters: Ariana (9), Airlie (7), and Reign (8 months).  Standing by his side is his high school sweetheart, Emma, who has helped Volk balance the intense world of MMA with the equally demanding role of being a loving father and husband. Slide into our DM's @twodotingdads with any guest suggestions you have! If you need a shoulder to cry on:  Buy our book: https://www.penguin.com.au/books/two-doting-dads-9781761346552  Two Doting Dads Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/639833491568735/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheTwoDotingDads  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/twodotingdads/  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@twodotingdads  Email: [e-mail]  We're giving away FREE cases of STONE AND WOOD!  All you have to do is share an IG story of you listening to Two Doting Dads!  Be sure to tag @twodotingdads and @stoneandwood in the story, and one lucky listener will win a case of delicious beer every week! 🍺🍺🍺  Extra points for the most creative and number of posts 😉 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Matty J, what day is it? Well, Ash, it is bonus episode day, my friend. We have none other than former U of C featherweight world champ Alex Volkanovski. Yes, he is known as Alexander the Great in the Octagon, but he's also a doting father to three young girls, Ariana, Ellie and Rain, who is eight months old. Yeah, and he's married to his high school sweetheart, Emma, back in 2012, and they have been together for almost 20 years. But he was a bit of a surprise package, old Volk.

He's a ball of energy, which is great. Lovable energy as well. I was a little bit intimidated at first. At first, yeah. But then I soon realized he's just a lovable man who could kill me in three seconds, but lovable nonetheless. Yes, the Vogue welcomed us with open arms and put us both in an arm bar. So please enjoy this episode at your own risk. Welcome back to Three Doting Dads.

I'm Matty J. I'm Ash. And I'm Alexander the Great Volkanovski. That just rolls off the tongue. Nailed it. Nailed it. This is a podcast all about parenting. It's the good, the bad.

And the relatable. Volk, do you think today will we have any advice, parenting advice from yourself? I mean, like you said, be relatable. Every parent is going to have a lot of the same problems and you're going to be all right. Well, I think if you're going to take advice from anyone, it's going to be four-world champ.

Yeah, for sure. I guess like how to choke one of these kids out must be out there in terms of advice. I want to go back in time a little bit to a young Volk. A young Volk. What was it like growing up? He's still a young girl. We go over this every time.

A young girl. I'm talking like six,, 7, 8, 9 if you can cast your memory back that far look I'll be honest with you it's always been

like this because a lot of every time I tell people I'm like terrible with memory I don't remember much as a kid and all that

to be quite honest and that was before my last two KOs as well so don't worry I know a lot of people every time I try and tell people that

especially lately I've had to have the contact, oh yeah, don't have that. I'm like, oh yeah, it's always been like this,

by the way. But I don't remember too much. When you think about your household, a Greek Macedonian household growing up, was it relaxed? Was it strict? What do you remember? I reckon pretty relaxed.

Yeah, I wouldn't say strict. I mean, I think every, I mean, the days were different, you know, to now were different, you know, to now. Obviously, you know, we'll probably raise a little bit different as to how you could raise now, I guess you could say.

But- Wooden spoon? What was- Yeah, what was the punishment in a Greek Macedonian household? My, the cutlery drawer, I was a wooden spoon. Me too. Oh, there you go I was gonna ask you this first

before I throw before I throw my parents under the bus I'm like did all our parents give us you know like a I hid

I hid our wooden spoon and then mum got the hard plastic spoon out absolutely regretted doing that so because my my mum and dad are like my biggest fans

they'll be watching this they watch everything oh great they'll be watching it so like I wanted to make sure, see, it was a little normal. I ain't throwing you under the bus, all right? So you'll be all right. But, yeah, I mean, yeah, a bit of everything, whatever it is.

But, I mean, like it was never too bad. But, I mean, if we deserved it, we deserved it. Was there a good cop and a bad cop between your mum and your dad? Yeah, you could say that, yeah. Who was good? Well, obviously it was always going to be you wait until your dad? Yeah, you could say that, yeah. Who was good? Well, obviously it was always going to be you wait until your dad gets home. See, I imagine, I look at you now as a man of discipline.

Very. Were you a disciplined, well-behaved young child? Yeah, I think I was man. That's a funny one. I always thought that I was a pretty good kid. Like I was never too naughty or anything. But then I start telling people stories. Like go back, I remember even the last camp, we had a few people

and the stories came out because I had my brother and some of his mates and then I was telling people some stories. And I'm like trying to explain to these guys because there was a lot of stories. And you would think that I was a mongrel of a kid. But I'm like I'm trying to tell them. I swear it wasn't like that. It wasn't like that but there was plenty of stories. Which one were you telling in the last camp?

Does anything stand out? Oh, mate, there's plenty of them. There's some that I can't say. You can say anything on this podcast. You know what I mean? There's some that you can't say, but just a lot of them. Obviously, being young, I've never been – like even when it comes to even like fighting stories, things that I'm not proud of,

and I've never been the type to start drama or anything like that, but it was just where we lived and all that. Like just it refined you here and there, and I would always stand up for myself. So even just telling them stories, like so many of them. I remember my uncle coming over once. Like my parents must have been on a holiday. It was a school night, and I had a party the night before. As you do.

As you do. And I remember my uncle coming and I was drunk still, I think. He'd come early in the morning and he's like, Alex, my uncle for you. And he's like, Alex, hey, Alex Malaka, what are you doing? Like, wake up and I'm sitting there. I'm like, what's going on? Didn't know what was going on. I just supposedly, the boys told me, I didn't remember.

So I end up just opening the window. I'm like, scussy Malaka. Which means, I don't know if you know a bit of Greek words. No, Malaka is like, idiot, idiot. Everyone, it's like, shut up, wanker, or something like that. It's just a Malaka. Everyone knows, everyone says it. It's just, it's like, I think you're allowed to say it.

That's probably the tamest one I'll tell you. There's plenty more, but we don't need to know about them. But I wasn't that bad. I promise. My background, my heritage, it's pretty boring for me. My dad is Australian. My mum is Welsh, but there's not really – we don't have any traditions growing up. What was it like for you?

Was it something that your heritage you were always really proud of? I mean, yeah, there's a, okay, so I'm, my dad's Macedonian, mother's Greek. So some of you would know a lot of people listening. Like you could imagine you could, the Greeks and the Macedonians go on at it. Yeah. And I just sit on the fence like I always do with everything.

But, I mean, one thing that was funny is because, obviously, I was always known, as I told you, being where I grew up from, I was always known to be able to fight. Yeah. And then I'll have – Because you were an Aussie champ, wrestler at 12? Yeah, I was a wrestler as well, yeah. So, yeah, national champ, wrestler, but, you know,

played rugby league and that. I didn't start MMA until I was 22 years old. Yeah. I was – yeah, so I was known for a bit of that. So then I you know, played rugby league and that. I didn't start MMA until I was 22 years old. Yeah. I was, yeah, so I was known for a bit of that. So then I had my uncles and my dad and all. They were going, ah, it's his, you know, Macedonian blood. It's his Greek blood.

And all they would ever do is just talk, because they're there, the Greeks and that, that. So all they would talk about was just fighting, wars, war stories and whatnot. So obviously me and my brother growing up, they loved it and they would always try and claim from both sides. Usually our barbecue was – I'm not even going to say some of it because it's – I mean you put this up. You wait until you see the comment section.

All love. We're looking forward to it. All love. Because they're always against each other. They're always trying to claim credit for you, aren't they? Yeah, and I just try and sit there and say I'm Macedonian, I'm Greek, and they'll leave me out of it. It's still on.

Let's put it to bed once and for all. I'll leave it at that. Which is your favourite? Which is my favourite? Who do you like more? Oh, man, look what you said. Sitting on the fence, sitting on the fence, sitting on the fence. I'm good at sitting on the fence, mate.

Do you ever catch yourself going, oh, my God, I sound exactly like my dad? I mean, there's noises that you're going to make, right? Like I think I probably did it when he's like something like that, just little things like that that you'll do and I'll notice I'm luckily. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, that's exactly like how my dad does it. Like I don't even know if I need to do a throat clear,

but I think it's just the noise that it's just through growing up. And you met your now wife, Emma, when you were quite young. Do you think it was that bad boy image that you might have had? I've never had a bad boy image. I'm trying to show these people I wasn't like that. No, I'm joking. I'm joking. No, no, I don't think so.

Did that help when you were trying to get her attention, do you think? I don't know. I'm trying like that. Sorry. No, I'm joking. I'm joking. No, no, I don't think so. Did that help when you were trying to get her attention, do you think? I don't know. Was it high school, right? Yeah, high school. Wow. High school sweetheart. 15, 16 years old. Oh, wow.

Yeah, very young. We've been with each other since then. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. I was like, I was as tall as I am now. So I was tall then. I was tall then. I was like – I was as tall as I am now. So I was tall then.

So I was tall then. I grew early. So, you know, I just stopped growing. What was it about Emma that you liked, that you were attracted to initially as a young man? As a young man? She was a female. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, looks, I guess you could say.

Like it's pretty simple then but then obviously as you grow and then obviously you end up learning more and more about each other. But, yeah, it's crazy when you think about it, that we are 15 years old. Yeah. I mean, been together ever since. And you've been inseparable ever since. Oh, my goodness.

You went to the same high school? So I always say she reckons she didn't follow me to my school. So there is a story. So we ended up making out under 18 to disco and then it wasn't long until she came to our school. But I think she had dramas at her old school and then came to our school. She would tell her that she had to. She didn't have any other choice.

I'll say she followed me. Maybe it was the bad boy image that she just couldn't resist, you know. How old when you got married? I would have been 23 years old, I think it was, yeah. For a lot of people, I think when they look at their timeline of their life and they think when is going to be the right time to have kids, you know, you think you've been married for a while, you've got a secure job, when everything's like settled down,

then it's the right time to start a family. I guess your timeline's a little bit different because having kids came at a time when there was a bit of uncertainty because you were so new in your career of being a fighter. How did the conversation come about with Emma about when was the right time to start a family? That was a tough one because as you said, about when was the right time to start a family? That was a tough one because, as you said, I wasn't a world champion this whole time, right? And when I wasn't in the UFC, and even when you're in the UFC, like a lot of people think you're in the UFC, you've made it,

you've got a lot of money. It's not how it is, especially in the early stages of UFC. But in the local scene, it was hard work. So you're fighting for not very much at all um and it's a you know you're chasing the dream and like you know so it was a big commitment for her to chase the you know to let me chase the dream put everything on hold and then uh one thing that was hardest for me was i always i made like because i was always trying to know why i think we'll wait i want to you know wait till we're a bit more set and Then it's just like, well, when are we ever going to be ready or set?

That's sort of them conversations. I was trying to drag it out because I made a promise to myself that I'd be in the UFC before I had Ariana or had my firstborn. And that didn't happen. So that was a promise to myself that I guess you could say I failed. So that stung a little bit. Was there something that you can attribute it to? Was it the –

Man, it was just like I was the best in Australia at the time. I was a world champion at the time as well in other organizations, big winning tricks. I was doing all the right stuff. Everyone knew I should be in the UFC. But at that stage, there was a lot of people on the roster and they didn't just sign people. So I would make sure I was ready.

So you're struggling financially. And I mean, for two years straight, I was pretty much in camp because I was just waiting because this is the opportunity to get in the UFC. You would have to wait for an opportunity where someone would get injured and it would be a late notice. So I would make sure I was ready all the way around for that. So I would always, you know, I always wanted to be

in featherweight and all that. So I would even have fights the same time as UFC would come to Australia. I would make sure I was fighting the same time. So I was in camp. My weight was down. So if a featherweight fight, you know, someone pulled out, I can jump in.

Just things like that. I was doing that for like two years, just fully committed to, you know, you could imagine me weight cutting for. Just things like that. I was doing that for like two years, just fully committed to, you know, you could imagine me weight cutting for two years straight and that, you know, you're probably a miserable husband in that as well. Like, you know, you're weight cutting, you're obviously going to be irritated easily. For people who aren't familiar with weight cutting,

we're not just talking like two or four kilograms. On average, how much are you trying to lose well i mean uh you know fight week i'd lose anywhere from five to seven kilograms in one way in one week yeah yeah so you love that a lot of people saying that it's like well teach me how to lose seven kilos now i can uh yeah it's just all water though a lot of that's a water but yeah um keeping my my weight and i love food obviously being a europe, being Macedonian, Greek, we love our food. So, oh, everyone loves food. That's just universal in it. But I love my food and to diet that whole time and make sure I was at a weight where I could

make the featherweight division. And while you're training, you've got to remember the dieting like that with the workload that I had. And at that time, I was still working. I was concreting and trying to be a full-time fighter as well. So I would like go to work in the morning and then go do a session, go back to work, and then do the number two sessions in the afternoon. I can't imagine how stressful that would have been for yourself and for your wife.

Edie, exactly. And then at that time, I didn't have a nutritionist. Like, you know, You were on your own. I'll caveat this question and say that being a dad, having kids is amazing. But at the same time- You've got to start with that. It's really bloody hard. It changes your life. And you've got to dedicate so much time and energy to someone else now. So how hard was it for you? You haven't accomplished your dream.

You then got a little child in the mix. Like how are you managing all of this? Yeah, it's hard work, but it's hard work for anybody, especially if you can. Yeah, but in saying that, I'm not concreting full time and then training before and after. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's a –

You're being very modest. Well, that's the thing. For me at the time, I don't know, maybe it was the way I was raised or I've always had it in my head that you just do it, you know what I mean? Find a way, figure it out and just do it, you know what I mean? Just the Nike sign, just do it. That's just sort of how I was. Things would get tough but I'd be like, oh, I'm just going out and just do it. You know what I mean? Just the Nike sign, just do it. That's just sort of how I was. Things would get tough but I'd be like, oh, I'm just going to have to do it.

It's weird. It comes down to that. I don't know where I got that from because I was never really, I wouldn't say someone taught it to me and it was taught about, oh, mindset. Oh, yeah, mindset, being resilient. I didn't even know what resilient meant back then. You know what I mean? There's words that like the conversations I have now about it,

I had no idea then. When I became a dad, I think one of the biggest changes that I felt to myself was that I became a lot softer. Oh, yeah. You know, I've probably cried more since being a dad than my whole teenage years as a young adult. I would think that being a professional fighter, you've got to have a level of aggression when you're in the ring. Did having a dad, did it soften you at all? Did it help or hinder? Because I've never fought with anger though.

So a lot of people do. They try and fire themselves up. No, I've never been like that. But having the kid for me, it definitely didn't make me suffer. It made me more motivated, right? So I had something to fight for, to be honest. But you're right with everything else because before I was a dad, you'd see me jumping off cliffs and, you know,

go snowboarding, trying backflips. Like I would try all that stuff and then, you know, I didn't care. But being a dad and then obviously my career is like now I'm like scared. I was scared to do anything. You've got more to live for. Yeah, right now I was like I can't afford to get injured, you know what I mean? And then I see danger everywhere. Like, I mean, you know, especially with the little toddler walking around, like, you know, helicopter

dad seeing danger everywhere. You know what I mean? So now like I'm like, oh no, yeah, I better not do that. See what you talk about, like what's dangerous, like jumping off a cliff or trying to do a back salt on a snowboard. I would say what's dangerous is being in the ring. Like, do you ever have that thought then like before you're going, say five minutes before a fight starts and you're thinking, I don't want to get injured for my daughter. Do you ever think, do you have to kind of block that out? Yeah, like I don't look at it that way.

I look at it as, yeah, it's not something that I'm, you know, obviously it is something that could happen but I was willing to do whatever it took to get that paycheck. So if I did get injured, that's so big. You've got three girls. Do you see the personality differences between your eldest, your second? Your youngest is really quite young, so there might not be that personality yet. But are they like you? Are they like your wife?

They deal with things completely different, which is surprising. One will be a bit more emotional, where the other is, you could probably say, a little bit more like me. So even instead of her crying or, say, playing soccer and that, instead of her crying and that, she just gets angry. Yeah, she would sit there like this, like gets angry. And I'm like trying to pull off.

She won't get off. She just wants to get back in there. Yeah, she's actually quite athletic. But, yeah, she would just get smashed. Like some of the boys just slide tackle. I remember one game she was getting axed. And she was like getting hurt. So she would be a little bit of like tears because she was hurt,

but she was angry. And then that's where a lot of the tears were coming from because she was angry and wanted to get them back. so i'm trying to get her off because it's her time to come off she wouldn't come off and she's like i'm i'm gonna get these like getting that angry so it's good though right a lot of people like oh like you know she was not like that where they're probably a little bit different they're both quite resilient in that sense maybe i rub off in a sense where even my oldest even though though she can be more emotional with different things, but when it comes to, like I remember her doing cross country and while she was like running, she had a stitch.

I remember seeing her like 500 metres away and she's bawling her eyes out. I'm like, what's going on here? She had a stitch the whole time but just soldiered on and kept going. I'm like, hey, that was good. I love that, you know. I was thinking these poor parents on the sideline thinking to their kid, like don't slide tackle Vogue's daughter. For God's sake, what are you doing?

I'm like, stay away from that kid. I can't handle the heat, all right. What was harder, the transition from one to two or two to three? Two to three. Yeah, two to three. I don't know why. Maybe it was just the big gap. Why was there such a big gap? I don't know why maybe it was just a big gap um why was there such a big gap um i don't know just uh i mean as we all know it's hard you know it's hard and uh you know had the two and then

i was just like i didn't think i was ready for for a third like obviously it's it's hard to explain well i just were like look like, look, I want to make sure I'm – I was always waiting to be in a better position financially and all that. Even when things were going well, I know we could be in a better position. I don't want to interfere with things too much right now. Because going through them early stages, it's hard work. It's like we've – so I didn't want the – this sounds bad, but I didn't want the – I was like, no, bad, but I didn't want her to, I was like, no, no, no, no. She just kept going, kept going.

And I'm like, man, you want to go through all that again? Are you sure you want to do this? I'm trying to remind her. Yeah. Like I'm trying to remind her. Remember how it was? It's like how it works. It's tough, yeah.

It's like I can't like, I'm in the prime time, you know what I mean? I can't afford to like, when I'm in camp, I'm obviously going to help, but I mean, I can't, like I need to commit to the fights and like I know, you know, I don't want to be in a position where I have to commit to my fighting and put a lot of energy there and not have energy, you know, to put as much energy here. So it was hard for me to make that decision and we did anyway but obviously, you know, very happy, you know,

but I'm just trying to be as real as I am. I wasn't too happy at the start like we've heard trying to talk me into it. I was like, man, you know, I don't think it's the right time. We're in the same boat. Yeah. It's a tricky one. Obviously, you sit there and, you know, you're blessed to have beautiful girls and all that,

but it doesn't mean it's easy. You mentioned earlier that the fighting's easy. Would you say that being a parent is harder than navigating the octagon? Oh, 100%. So fighting, and when I say fighting's easy, I mean the fighting compared to the preparation. Yeah. But, I mean, fighting, it is easy, even training.

Yeah, it's hard work physically and mentally, but I've got that down pat. You know what I mean? And that's me I've got to control. I can control me very well. But navigating these little humans all the time. Trying to mold these humans to be strong, independent women, you know what I mean, and get them ready for the world. You heard it here first.

It's harder than being a USP fighter. There you go. A hundred percent, mate. It is. And, like, especially if you want to, like, you care and want to raise them. Yeah. And the worst part and the hardest thing for me, I'm a fix it now type person.

So this is the right way or I'm going to fix it, I'm going to change it, I'm going to do it. And you're wrong. I'm wrong. Every month I realise I'm doing it wrong. You know what I mean? Like I don't care what anyone says. You know, you go through and every situation,

every kid's going to be different. You know, you could probably, you know, you go through and every situation, every kid's going to be different. You know, you could probably, you know, where other things could come into play with, you know, disabilities obviously or diagnoses with other things. Like, you know, there's definitely a lot of things that come into play and like, oh, you know, you might be strict here and then realise that maybe you could have done things a little bit different and you feel guilty.

You've been doing it wrong the whole time. But it's hard work, mate. And for me, again, I'm going to fix it now, try and do it, and I care a lot about that. That's the hardest thing is trying to put energy into that and trying to do the training schedule and that as well. So much more on the plate now and it got to me. It got to me.

It got hard. It really got hard for a little bit there. I mean, with fight prep and you've got young kids in the house and young kids go to school, they go to daycare, and they bring things back. They bring germs back. Did you have to avoid them? Because we know we get the kindy cough, we get someone's got the shits

once a month. God, someone shits the bed. Yeah, that can mean like a win or lose potentially. Yeah, yeah. The knock-on or lose potentially. Yeah, yeah. But the knock-on effect is huge. Yeah, well, let's, yeah, definitely. I'm not going to sit there and like, you know, even Emeril would be sometimes, oh, maybe you've got to go to the,

because I had to have a fighter house for my training partners and that. And then the wife would like sometimes, oh, maybe you go to the fighter's house because you've got the runs or whatever it is. But, I mean, I couldn't do it. I can be a bit of a germaphobe, especially in camp, so the Galan 20's out and, you know what I mean, I'm washing my hands the whole time and I'm, like,

doing whatever I can and, like, you know, trying to talk to them while I'm breathing. Whatever you can. It's probably not helping, but I'll do it anyway. But, yeah, it does definitely get tricky. And everything just runs through the house, right? Oh, yeah. It's funny when you watch it happen and you're like, one's got it.

Because both of mine are at daycare and kindy, same with Matt, because we're exactly the same age of kids. One get gastro and you're like, oh, shit, here it comes. And it just works its way through the house. I think one time I got gastro, the kids had it. We thought we were over it. Then we all went on holidays and the rest of us got it on holidays. Yeah, sometimes it's delayed, isn't it?

Yeah. You're like, it'll be a few days and you're like, I think we're in the clear. Nope. The rest of the family. Have you picked up any bugs from the kids whilst you've been in a fight camp? Yeah, 100%. There's definitely things that, oh, mate, I'm trying to think of.

Yeah, 100%. There's definitely things that, oh, mate, I'm trying to think of. In-camp training, obviously, because I would travel with the family. So there's been times where I've been overseas, like traveling and then getting the runs. So the little one getting the runs, like Ariana, it was just Ariana at the time. I think we were over there. Good for weight cutting, though.

Oh, that's great. You've got to drop an extra two. Done. So she was like three months. Her first holiday, her tiling was at three months. That was pretty early. But I remember, yeah, she ended up having the runs and then I ended up getting the runs.

And back then, again, we didn't have money. So we're in this little tiny room. Oh, I must have stuck. Oh, mate. So, you know, I change a nappy every couple of minutes. And me, I'm running to the toilet every, you know, it was a nightmare. I have been to the gym with the runs once, thinking I could train through it. Not ideal.

If you cast your mind back before you became world champ for the first time, did you ever have any conversations? Like I'm thinking, you know, you're now a dad. You've got a young daughter. You're doing these, you know, fight camps over in Thailand. You've got a sick kid. Did you ever sit down with Emma and go like, I don't know if this is for me.

I don't know if this is going to happen? As in before I was in the UFC? Correct. Yeah, yeah, definitely. That was because you could imagine the sport's much bigger now everyone everyone knows most people know what ufc is and that when i was training for it not many people knew about it wasn't uh as mainstream mainstream as it is now you know what i mean it wasn't a big deal no and we didn't have ufc champions and it didn't seem like a path for

people to go like it was not something that was seen. So a lot of people you could imagine like while I was sitting there and we were struggling like financially, you could imagine the relatives, friends would be like, well, when's he going to give this? When's he going to get a job? Fighting things out. When's he going to get back to concreting? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

And that would happen a lot of times. So it was tough going through that and I'm trying to be like chasing the dream and, you know, I had the full support from the wife. But like I said, I made the promise to myself that I would be in the UFC before Arianna was born, the first born, and that didn't happen. So the pressure was on. And I remember there was a time where I almost did give up, where I just went like I don't ever, like I remember pulling up.

So my coach seen me pull up. I don't know what it was. It might have been something little at the time, but it was just the pressure got to me where I'm just like, what's going on? Like I was meant to be in the UFC. I got told that the UFC were asking for me. And then I had another management company said that I was locked into another contract. So they went and got someone else and signed them. Things like that. And it went to a point where I'm like, is this just ever going to happen? And I remember rocking up to the gym one time and I was going to go in.

My coach seen me and then I'm just like, stuff this. I'm going home. Like it was the first time I've ever did that. And that's not like me. It doesn't seem like a big deal. A lot of people probably turn away from the gym. But for me, that doesn't happen. It kind of might have felt like turning you back on your dream a little bit. Well, it is.

It was like, that's a big sign of are you giving up. So, you know, even my coach rang me up and goes, you're good? What's going on? I seen you pull up and like what happened? Gastro. Was Emma like, oh, you're back quick. Yeah, it was just like, yeah, it was just me and I was just like this close to just turning back.

I didn't. A week later I end up getting a major sponsor to jump on board and at that time massive deal. Like none of your contracts are giving you that type of money that a major sponsor to jump on board and at that time, massive deal. None of your contracts are giving you that type of money that a major sponsor would then. So I'm like, oh, man, this is good. And then the week after that, I ended up getting the UFC contract. So I went from the lowest point where I was almost going to give up

to the highest point. You talk about financially you weren't secure because you're chasing this dream and you know that in fighting a win versus a loss is worlds apart it's like could go you know left or right rags or riches almost so what does it feel like when you do get crowned the new world champ yeah it's a it's there's always a relief i always get a relief after every every fight It's because there's so much pressure and it's weird because I don't show the pressure or the – it's like I almost block it out that much I don't even know it's there, especially earlier in my career.

I just wouldn't let it get in there. But it was like I've got this resilience shield. I have this shield around me and I just don't let nothing in. The weight's there but I ain't letting it in. I ain't letting there be a chink in the armour. And then as soon as the fight is done, I can let that shield go. What are your thoughts on your girls watching your fight? Do they fully comprehend it and do you let them completely in

or is there some things you hold them back from? Yeah, you're going to hold them back. I'm going to give them taste of it as well but it's obviously going to be a lot that you hold back from? Yeah, you're going to hold them back. I'm going to give them taste of it as well, but it's obviously going to be a lot that you hold back from. But, I mean, they know I'm fighting. I don't think they really watch it. Obviously, we're away, so they're usually with my parents, but I'm not there to put them in that position.

I don't know. I'll be okay for them to watch it. Are they interested in doing what Dad does? Not really. I think, you know, Ariana, the oldest, she wants to, she loves the drama. She wants to be famous, right? She just, whatever.

She definitely doesn't want to be a fighter though. She knows fighting, but I mean, she likes the glamour and all that. Like, you know, she wants a piece of all that, but no, not really. I think, like I said, the middle one, Ailey, I think she could definitely be a fighter if she wanted. Do you wrestle with her often? I muck around with them here and there, yeah. But, yeah, like I said, she's quite resilient and athletic.

They did do a bit of training. I'm all for kids doing martial arts because I think it's great for life skills as well. I took Oscar down to a jiu-jitsu for the first time just to have a look. Scared the shit out of me. He's gone. He's gone. He doesn't want to go back.

Let's put it that way. We had a little conversation before the podcast. There was one particular injury that took place with one of your daughters and I think all parents have played with their kids and caused an injury. I definitely have on Marley. Laura's always like, stop throwing around like that. Accidental, of course.

Of course, accidental. Accidental. Yeah, so this happened a couple of times. That sounds bad. A couple of times? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so we've – early, so the middle one. So I remember I was over in New Zealand for, I think it was for a fight camp

and, yeah, so I take them over whenever I do a bit of travelling. A lot of times I'm taking them with me because I don't want to be away for too long. So we were at a park and then I remember there were stairs all the way down. We were at the park and we had to go because we were leaving that day. We were actually going to fly home that day. And so we were going to go and she's crying. She didn't want to leave as kids do.

I'm like, I've got to go, I've got to go. I'm holding her hand and we're trying to go up and she's trying to pull herself back. I'm like, no, no, come on, we're going. And then she ends up like sort of following, but she's like crying, still crying. I'm like, she's still bloody carrying on. Like, you know, it's by the time we got to the car,

she was still crying. I put her in the car, I remember seeing her and then I'm seeing her sort of hold her arm like this and I'm looking at her, I'm like, is she holding her arm weird? I'm like, maybe it's nothing. She's still going. I'm like, check her arm. I don't know if something's happened.

I'm like, you're kidding. Please don't tell me I broke her freaking arm or something like that. So I'm sitting there and then I end up seeing like a – then I realise it was her arm and I'm like, that would have been for me carrying. I'm like, I broke my kid's arm. You know what I mean? Like how am I going to tell the hospital hospital this how am I going to tell people this I'm like you're kidding I'm like oh far out so I'll go there and like uh and mind you we have

to be at the airport within an hour a couple hours so we're freaking out yeah exactly we're like oh man what's going on um went to the wrong spot I took her to like I wanted to drop her off and I was going to find park and I ended up taking her to an old folks home I think. So she's driving around like trying to find the spot. We're like it's chaos. She's bringing back, this isn't the place. Pick me back up.

I go pick up, go there. She's gone and I find a car park and I run in. It's quite common. So they can dislocate their elbow a little bit. Some kids can be a little more vulnerable there, especially when they're younger. That's why they say never, like, pick them up by their arms. I won't anymore.

I definitely am not going to do that anymore. Pull them out of the pool and things like that, you know, little things like that. And they say, yeah, you don't do that because this can happen. I'm like, what the – I'll be doing this forever. You know what I mean? Like, I'll be doing this forever. I'm like, there's probably loose ligaments from me doing that now.

So I'm blaming myself for that. You know, her arms, she's more vulnerable because of that, because of me. But, yeah, that happened a couple of times. And then we even had her auntie, so my wife's sister, they're on a bodyboard and like pulling her on a bodyboard over here and like same thing happened. I had to take her and like we had to tell her like, oh, yeah, it can be just quiet.

She's like freaking out like, what? I've dislocated her. It's never happened before. That's never happened before. I swear I was just like dragging her. I was like, yeah, that's all it needs. It's your fault. It's your fault.

It's happened like three times. I think even once, you know, like, yeah, so now we look like terrible parents now. So even the wife, so we didn't know that she was going to be more vulnerable than others. We knew that it's common for that to happen, but she was more vulnerable. Like it started being very easy for this to happen.

But I remember Emma was, because Ellie was hitting her sister with her thing and then Emma's like grabbed her, hey, that's enough, like pulled it off her. Just from pulling the toy out of her hand and then she starts crying. Like, oh, and they're looking back and then realise you're kidding. This thing's happened again. It's popped out again. It popped out from her taking the toy so she's not hitting her sister with.

So what do you tell? It's like, oh, no, how dare you take that? You should just let her keep hitting her sister. You know what I mean? I mean, that's parent for you you're damned if you do you're damned if you don't there's always

at least you treated the injury if it makes you feel any better I once broke my arm my mum thought I was faking it so I broke an arm for two days before she finally took me to the doctors so you're doing a good job

yeah I mean I've got a story and I told you that my mum would be watching I don't know if I want to tell her. She's going to feel terrible. You can't back out. Oh, no, I can't.

Sorry, mum. It's not your fault. It's an accident. These accidents happen. Accidents. Yeah, exactly. So supposedly I was meant to be napping and as you do, like back then they didn't have the monitors like we do now.

So the kids are sleeping, you know, you let them go there and sleep and I think she was in another room and me being a, I think like I said, I've always been a resilient, durable fella. But supposedly a lady, one of my aunties or something was walking past the window and see me like half out my cot like with my neck just getting like choked like this. So I was like getting like half out because the cots aren't like as safe as they are now as well.

Sorry, Mama. It's not your fault. I mean, wait, wait. I'm going to thank you for this though. So one sec. So I'm in there and then she's like going there. I think it was Monica maybe. And then I'm telling her they've run in and like got me.

So I was like hanging out the cot like off with my neck, like stuck with this on my neck. Yeah, I was conscious. I was all right. So, you know, but it was just she thought I was asleep and I'm not making any noises because I'm just like. You're just there. I'm just dangling like, oh, what do I do?

You know what I mean? He's coughing it. Most kids probably would cry. I just didn't cry. But, yeah, so that happened and, you know, she obviously, I remember her telling the story and, like, obviously she feels terrible and she's going to hate me telling this story. So I'm quite upset that I told this story.

But now people want to ask me, how did I get out of that? Oh, the choke. Brian will take a choke. Mum to the rescue. Because of that one time. Thanks, Mum. See? It's conditioning from the heart. I mean, she knew. She's like, oh, my God, he's not panicking. He one time. Thanks, Mum. See? It's conditioning from an age.

She knew. She's like, oh, my God, he's not panicking. He can still breathe. You know, she was trying to make me durable. When she was probably watching that half-hour unfold in the octagon, she was probably like, he's got this. She was probably the only person going, we've been training for this. We've been training for this for 30 years.

Some of these things happened to me a couple of times. I remember, and again, this is not her fault. I remember walking on a train and the gaps between the trains used to be a bit bigger. Oh, yeah. So I remember walking, I felt like straight down. I felt straight down. Don't know how my head didn't get caught for one.

Could have been really bad and I was stuck under the train for a bit. So like everyone's like trying to stop them and they're like trying to get me up. They end up getting me up anyway. That bloke picked the wrong guy to try and choke out me exactly right so I probably should add

oh yes dangling on my nigger I don't want to lie but I mean there's been a couple of little stories like that so now you know

why I've got good choke defence wow with your kids now coming from a place where you had to and I think it's probably just the environment

that you were brought up in, having that resilience, how do you try and instill that resilience in your kids now? I mean, that's, it's hard, right? Like because it's, you can't expect, you know, you can't expect kids or everyone to be able to deal with things how you, like we do or like how I do. It's hard because i i came from a

background single mom one of five kids if i wanted a new pair of shoes i'd have to wait for my brother to go out of them whereas my daughter now if she wants a new pair of shoes i'm like let's get some of course yeah why wouldn't i want to provide for you because i want to give you you know the life that i didn't get to have but we want to balance balance it, don't we? Yeah. That's the problem. I think you – Yeah, so I'm the same. So I try – yeah, exactly. So they're the – I feel like I don't want to give them what I can give them right now because, you know, again, I don't want them to be spoiled

and not be able to deal with things later in life, you know what I mean, because you've got to get them ready for that. But then I feel like I can be too much on one end. Yeah, I do the exact same thing. Yeah, and then I'm like, oh, no, maybe I'm being too much. I'll go this way. And now I'm doing mixed messages. I know. My much on one end. Yeah, I do the exact same thing. Yeah, and then I'm like, oh, no, maybe I'm being too much. I'll go this way. And now I'm doing mixed messages. I know.

My messages are so mixed. I'll get to like the end of the day and it's like Oscar, we're at the shops and he's got like three things that I, you know, I've just gone, okay, yeah, why not? I can get these for you. And then as I get to the end of the day, I'm like, he's going to get spoiled. So I need to try and cut him down somehow.

I'm taking that back off you. You can't have that. I'm just picking up and throwing bin what you doing i heard your sister resilience think about it again that's what i mean it's it is so hard like you want to you want to try and find the balance there and um yeah and then like you just you think this way is better for a bit and then a month later you're like oh no i think uh you know in this case i might be able to should should treat this differently. And that's mixed messaging again.

And then I feel like I failed because I've been doing it wrong this whole time. And then I end up finding out I did it wrong again. That's what I mean. A parent isn't easy, especially when you're – but, I mean, one thing I can say, if you are having them pressures, you're putting them pressures on yourself and you're feeling guilty and all that, at least you care.

At least you're trying. At least you're trying. At least you're trying to do something. You know what I mean? I guarantee there's going to be parents out there that aren't trying. They're just like, oh, whatever's easiest. It's hard work. I love the messaging. It's like just do the best you can, right?

Because I was talking to my mom last night and this conversation come up when I was talking about, you know, you put that pressure and she's like, stop putting pressure on yourself. Like, you know, you're doing a great job and blah, blah, blah. It's like, you know, and then they're like, you want like, and there's going to come an age where they're just going to have to figure it out themselves. I go, yeah, but I want to mold them into, you know,

I want them to be in a better position, the best position possible for them to figure things out. Yeah, for sure. You talked before about that guilt of a parent and i don't know if this is something that you have to deal with but when you're in a training camp and you've got to be so focused on on the fight do you ever have to deal internally with the guilt that your work takes you away from the family well i've never let it take me away too much um so that's why i've always it's always just been fighting

in family to me. So one thing that was harder for me was being myself. I never had time to just be myself. So I was always fighter or dad. And whatever energy I could give to the families, it would be obviously a type of energy that obviously I'm still going to do things with them but, I mean, I've got to be calculated with that energy because I know I've got to do another two sessions in the afternoon

with a calorie deficit. So I'm trying to, you know, I can't just sit there and take them here. And like yesterday, you know, I'm running around here and there. Like I don't have the time of the day when I'm in camp to do that. Now I do. And I don't have the energy to do that. So I've got to be a lot more calculated in that sense. But I mean, it never gave me more time for other things. So one thing that I'm proud of and I'm glad, I always made sure that it was fighting and family. So I was always able to fit them two in. Are you finding that you time now that you've decided to take some time off?

Oh, mate, 100%. Like I've never been so free. I feel like especially at first it was weird. I just lost my world title that I had for almost four and a half years. Just lost it. Within a week or two, I felt so free and happy. I'm like, how has this happened? I just lost two weeks ago.

I lost my belt. It was weird. I was just like big weight lift off my shoulders. All right, I don't need to train in the afternoon. Let's go all out. Let's go here. Let's go here. Let's go there. Let's do this.

They must love having you. Oh, yeah, for sure. So much. It was great. Even on the holiday, not feeling guilty. Yeah. I should be training. I should be here.

And your kids are like, Dad, leave us alone. No, they love it. They love it. So like I said, the energy was – I always put energy in it, but I mean I could just do so much more with it now. You got a bit more energy now. Yep. Maybe you could have a fourth.

Maybe. No, I'm done. I'm done. It's funny. Get the snip. I've got the snip. I'm worried about doing that and losing. I don't know if that's going to affect with my –

We joke about this because I – My fighting, right? Yeah. So I'm like, what if that interferes with something I'm a better fighter now okay yeah better fighter

okay better pillow fighter anyway much better pillow fighter now I mean it's yeah now I'm done it's funny I think

when did I say this oh like six years ago I've said this yeah exactly I did but I said I'm tapping out I don't tap out too much but I'm tapping out I don't tap out to anything but I'm tapping out to you. Yeah, exactly. I did. But I said that I'm tapping out.

I don't tap out too much, but I'm tapping out. I don't tap out to anything, but I'm tapping out to have a try at another. But I remember saying that. That brings another funny story with my kids. I remember it just sort of shows when you ask and how do you try and train them to be resilient and all that. I think it's just going to rub off in how I am. So I remember I end up saying I don't know what it was for,

don't know what we're doing. Something was happening and they'll go and then I'm like, oh, no, no, no. I give up. I said something like I give up or, you know, I give up. I can't do it like that. And then my little one, Ailey, she goes, daddy. I couldn't believe that I said I give up. Like she was like a swore.

It was like a swore at her. You can't say that. She's like, daddy. It was upset that I said I'd give up. It was like I swore. It was like I swore at her. You can't say that. She's like, Daddy. Was upset that I said I gave up. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, okay, there you go. I'm doing something right here, you know what I mean? So I must be rubbing off.

Vogue, my last question is when you are an old man and a much older man, you know, when you've got, I was going to say grey hair. I won't let people see it. older man, you know, when you got, I was going to say gray hair, but. I won't let people see it. But when you are a much older man and your children have grown up, they've left home, what do you want them to remember about the house that they grew up in?

It's a good question. It's a hard one to end on. It is a great question. It's a good question because I'm always looking at it where I want them to be ready for this. I'm always looking at putting them in the best position, but how do I want to look at it this way? Because obviously times change.

People are, you know, how parenting was back in the day when we were growing up, but I know that. So I don't look at it, when I look back at it, I know they did the best thing they could in them times and what, you know what I mean? So I just hope that if I did do things wrong or something, I hope they knew that we tried our best and I tried, you know. Thank you for allowing us to come into your home.

No worries at all. No worries. Thank you. It was good. It was definitely different, obviously, again, as we talked earlier about, you know, everyone's going to ask me fighting questions. Obviously, it's going to always go in there. We want to know more about the man.

Yeah, exactly. And the dad. I mean, yeah, there's plenty more stories of those as well. We'll have to get you back on. I feel like I need to sacrifice more for my kids. I know. Yeah, I'm just about to start a fight, Jim. I mean, that's just it.

We all sacrifice more than enough. That's for sure. Some people just do it in all different ways. Me, I get punched for a living. So I'm sacrificing a bit of brain damage maybe. One more big shout out to The Vault for letting us into his home down in the gong. What an absolute legend.

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Five stars. That'd be great. Thank you. And we'll catch you guys next time. Bye. Goodbye. Bye. Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to their elders,

past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. This episode was recorded on Gadigal land.