Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash - #73 Tillie's Mum Katrina Gorry: From Solo IVF to Sharing Motherhood and Growing Their Family

Episode Date: June 16, 2024

Matilda’s superstar Katrina Gorry shares her remarkable journey from solo IVF to expanding her family with her partner Clara Markstedt. Katrina chats about the challenge of moving to Sweden with her 6-month-old daughter Harper, how motherhood reignited her career, and navigating the start of kindergarten. Matt and Ash spoke to Katrina a week before her partner Clara gave birth to their son!  If you need a shoulder to cry on:  Buy our book: https://www.penguin.com.au/books/two-doting-dads-9781761346552  Two Doting Dads Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/639833491568735/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheTwoDotingDads  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/twodotingdads/  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@twodotingdads  Email: [e-mail] See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ash, we are here to gift the listeners a cheeky little bonus episode today. Oh, I love that. And Matt, today we have none other than Matilda's superstar, Katrina Gorey. I'm super excited for this one. How the hell did you get her details? Never you mind. How'd you do it? Honestly, tell me.

I'm the weasel. Yeah, well, I- I schmooze. My schmooze. All I did was I reached out to her. I pled our case. I pled what we have here. Yeah, well, I can- A schmooze. My schmooze. All I did was I reached out to her. I pled our case. I pled what we have here. On Instagram or-

Instagram is- What's your opening line? Sup. One P or two? Three Ps. Sup. Sup. I just went in with an honest approach to asking someone if they would love to jump

on and have a yarn about parenting. And she so happens to have a very unique story. She does. You've done well. Thank you. Katrina, or she's also known as Minnie, is joining us all the way from Sweden. Katrina is the doting mother to three-year-old Harper, who you may remember, Matt, from the World Cup that was in Australia in 2003, which captivated the nation. It was a pivotal moment in Australian sport,

and they have changed the game forever. Got to be a part of it, so I'm pumped for this one. I love it when you get passionate about sport. Passionate! I just love sport. We also talk about how she became pregnant with Harper, which is a little bit left of field. It is very left of field. It's an IVF journey, but it's unique in that she was a single parent

and that process took place over in Norway. But now her partner, Clara, they are expecting their second baby, any second now, she may or may not give birth in the podcast episode. She may or may not. I don't want to give it away. No. I'm going to tease it. This isn't the end. Just in case it happens. She may or may not. I don't want to give it away. No. Going to tease it. This isn't the end.

Just in case it happens. And you'll see what happens. She doesn't give birth in the episode in case they want to just manage expectations here. Welcome back to Two Doting Dads and One Doting Mum. I'm Matty J. I'm Ash. I'm known as Harper's Mum, but also Katrina Gorry. Very good.

This is a podcast all about parenting. It is the good, the bad. And the relatable. And if you have come wanting any advice stop right now oh actually whenever we have a guest we get some accidental advice and i feel like katrina you've had a really insane parenting journey so i feel like you will give us some advice today let's hope so but no pressure yeah look i don't know about that i don't know about that she's alive that's the main thing. Perfect. Perfect.

Katrina, if we go back to when you were a young kid, when you were beginning your career as a ballet dancer, it was a short-lived career. Do you remember how many lessons you had? This is before you started playing football. Yeah, look, probably about none. You wouldn't get me in the dress or the shoes or anything else. I thought your mum forced you into lessons. Yeah, she probably did, but I probably didn't go or I went and hid in the toilet.

This wasn't for you. Maybe I stood on the floor at one point, but I've just erased that from my memory. And you've got quite a few siblings. Can you just run us through how many siblings you've got? I do. So I have a sister, three brothers, three stepbrothers and a half-brother. Wow. Must have been a lively household.

Yes. It was pretty crazy, but we had a good childhood. But yeah, always someone to muck around with, always someone to beat up or have a bit of a chuckle with. But, no, it was, yeah, we had a great childhood. It was your brothers that got you into playing football or soccer, for those wondering. Did they love that their little sister was wanting to follow in their footsteps? Oh, I think bits and pieces.

I hated when I beat them. They hated when I probably, you know, progressed a bit more than what they did. But they probably know that they taught me everything I knew about football and made me the player that I was. So I think they take a bit of, you know, responsibility for that, I think. And outside of, you know, playing football, soccer at a young age, what sort of kid were you, would you say? Were you a troublemaker? Were you – you follow all the rules? Were you the class clown?

Where did you fit in? There was a big sigh just then. I know. Something's happened. I definitely wasn't a goody two-shoes. That was – yeah, I was probably, out of all the kids, probably one of the bad ones. Bit of a class clown. Would like to push boundaries a bit,

hated being told what to do. How many times did you get separated from your friends in the classroom? We probably weren't even allowed to sit together to start the class. Do you remember, was there a moment where you realized that you were actually getting a lot better than the rest of your brothers playing football? I mean, yeah, probably. I mean, when I was a teenager, I got selected for quite a few teams. Obviously, it's a bit harder for the boys, but they kind of fell out of love with the game

my older brothers did anyway. And so, I guess I still loved it a bit more than they did and kept on progressing. And I actually got kicked out of one of my teams because I had a bad attitude. So I think that kind of made me want to, you know, work a bit harder and, yeah, be a bit better. When you look back, do you think you did have a bad attitude or were you hard done by? Nah, I mean, probably. But I was like 13. So I made it into the QIS team. And it's with like, I mean, most of them were national team players.

So between 20 and 30 years old and I was a 13-year-old. It's such a big difference. I didn't know how to act. Yeah. I didn't know how to act. I didn't want football to be that serious. I just wanted to have fun. I probably did have a bad attitude,

but I probably didn't know what it meant to be a professional footballer either. Every 13-year-old had a bad attitude. We'll let that one slide. I think you probably weren't hard done by. They were probably trying to teach you a bit of a lesson, like a life lesson. But that's such a big age gap. I mean, me growing up playing football or soccer, I would, being a male, I would come up against teams and there would be the odd female. I mean, you must look back now and think

such a big shift. Were you playing in teams as a kid, you know, as the lone girl in the team? Yeah, my whole junior. So, I played up until I was 13 with the boys. And I loved it. I thought it was most teams that I went to, they were really accepting. When they saw that I could play, they always had my back if one of the opponents weren't very nice or was saying some pretty harsh things. So that was really nice. And yeah, for the most part, I was the only female. Pretty nice to go back to my old club and see how many grassroots girls teams there are now because it's changed massively. So who was your idol back then?

Who did you look up to? Everyone asks me that. To be honest, I never really watched football or anything like that. I'd say probably Cathy Freeman out of anyone just because of, you know, what she did for Australia. But, yeah, I didn't really – I still don't watch the English Premier League and I live in London. You're the only one literally you know everyone's talking about the games

and I have no idea I think they're talking about the women's games but no I just never really watched it it was only when I got pregnant that I started watching more football hey do you think was it a coach was it you know your mum or was it just maturity that shifted that bad attitude when you were 13?

It was probably, to be fair, getting kicked out of the team. I think when something's taken away from you, you really realise how much you actually wanted it. And I remember being in tears and just feeling like my world had just been taken away. So I probably worked a bit harder um and when I got another opportunity I tried to take it with both hands so yeah it probably helped me in the long run for sure there's that lesson learned I was talking about

that like we'll show her but yeah it obviously lit a fire in your in your belly and it's obviously led to where you are now but in those early days where you were a professional football player, do you remember what it was like getting that call that you're getting accepted or getting asked to play for the national team? Do you remember that moment? Yeah, I was over in Canada. So it was my first overseas team, semi-pro team. And my coach at the time had said that I'd been in the preliminary squad

and then a couple of days later told me that I'd made the squad. And, yeah, I guess it was just a really proud moment. I remember calling my mum. I was probably in tears. She was over, I think, in France at the time and quickly rebooked her flights to come be with me in Japan to watch me debut. I don't think I really touched the ball. I just chased shadows.

But it was still a special moment for sure. When your coach tells you, is it just like, oh, and by the way, you've made the Australian squad? Or is it like, did they make it a big deal? Do you think that it's about to come the news? Yeah, they made it a big deal because at the time I was probably one of the only ones in the team playing for their national team. So, yeah, the girls were super pumped for me. So, he made it pretty special with what he had.

But, yeah, it's definitely a moment you'd never forget. And then how does it work with, like, I always wondered when you get the news, hey, you're going to play for Australia, when do you start getting your kit? Do they ship it out to you or you've got to go and get it? Nah, as soon as you get into Kent, they've got like a big kit room. So they give you stacks of different, you know, shirts and shorts. It must be like a childhood dream to go into the kit room of like the national football team and being like, you know,

okay, we'll get to pick whatever you want. It was all, I suppose, like every kid who plays any sport would have that dream of like, imagine that moment. Yeah, well, I remember like going home when I was a kid and I'd like put everything on before game day. Did you have anything like that? And sleep in it. Did you have anything like that when you're at home?

No, they don't let us even see our jerseys before we head into the game. For that reason. You just have a bunch of people sleeping in them, yeah. Yeah, exactly right. No, but it was nice just even walking around in, you know, casual shirts that say have the Australian emblem on them and stuff like that. It's definitely pretty special.

But, yeah, even more special to put the jersey on for the first time for sure. But it's changed a lot now because, like, from what we got back then to what we have now is just completely different. Like, I think I was still paying for my own boots back then. Oh, wow. What? Yeah. I think it's only been in probably the last couple of years

that you'd find most national team players are now fully sponsored. But, yeah, I was – I mean, I was finding it hard to even find boots because my feet are so small. What size shoe are you, if you don't mind me asking? Not being creepy. Size five? Hey, relax. Sorry.

Wow. Yeah, so it's only recently that they've actually started making that women's boots, so they go down to that size. There you go. Katrina, is that because of yourself? Have you been- You're a pioneer. I don't know if I can claim it, but I'm sure a lot of girls are in my-

Take credit. Take credit for that. We don't have the biggest feet, that's for sure. Yeah, yeah, I can claim it, but I'm sure a lot of girls are in my same boat. Take credit. We don't have the biggest feet, that's for sure. Yeah, yeah, I'll take it. I called Nike myself and I said, look, I need small boots. I need some size fives. Do you remember back then? Because obviously female sport has changed so much. Football in Australia has changed so much since the World Cup.

Do you remember back then when you were playing, like how many people would you get to attend a game? Oh, probably like maybe 4,000 or 5,000. It wasn't often that we even played in Australia, to be fair, let alone in a big stadium or anything. I think the first time we got 20,000 and it was in Sydney and I think it might have been around 2015. Wow.

And what about when you were playing club level? Oh, you'd get a few hundred in there maybe. Yeah, for like a Brisbane Raw game. It seems crazy that, I mean, now it's very different, but back then it's like just a few hundred people in such a big stadium like that just seems crazy to me. Is it a difficult adjustment then to playing in front of not just hundreds but then thousands of people?

No, it's incredible. Like singing the national anthem with so many people and just hearing the atmosphere constantly throughout the game is just, yeah, it just takes you to a new level. It doesn't matter how hard you're hurting if you can hear people yelling you're still running yeah that's wild that was incredible it's crazy there was a time uh that i read during your earlier career you started to lose a bit of love for the game um is pre pre becoming a mom i mean did you just one day decide that this is not for me or was it gradual?

Yeah, probably gradual. Like, I mean, I'm a massive family person, like my family's my life. And just living away, like athlete life seems so cool, but living away and constantly missing, you know, different events that are happening, you know, hard times that your family are going through and you can't really be there for them. I'm a bit of the glue in the family. And like my brother went through, you know, 10 years of drug addiction and I just felt like I couldn't help him. And he was going into rehab at the time I was in Japan and I just felt so helpless. And I kind of just really spiraled and it was almost into an eating disorder because that was something that I could control back then.

Yeah. So then had a real issue around food, around body image and, you know, being an athlete, you think you're strong and can get through anything but, you know, it took me four years to get out of that cycle. Like I was still, you know, I was still playing in the national team, I was still playing at Brisbane but most days I couldn't get out of bed and I couldn't see, you know, the light at the end of the tunnel.

It just felt so heavy all the time and it wasn't until like I got pregnant that that all changed really. I guess I'm very fortunate like most men are. We don't struggle with our body image anywhere near as much as women do and as a father to two girls, you know, I often wonder what it's going we don't struggle with our body image anywhere near as much as women do. And as a father to two girls, you know, I often wonder what it's going to be like for them when they start growing up. Right now they're five and three, but when they're teenagers,

what kind of struggles will they face? When you think back to when you were struggling with your body image, was there anything in particular that contributed to that? I mean, it was probably the rise in, you know, the people that were looking at football. Being an athlete, you always need to be strong, be ready to play at any point in time. And I think it was obviously when social media got bigger and bigger that it was kind of like you started comparing yourself to different footballers. If I looked like this, maybe I could be a better footballer. So it kind of probably, you know, started when football kind

of really took off and also social media as well. And so then who helped you get through that? I eventually, like I started confiding in some of my, you know, family and my close friends and just, you know, speaking about it. I started speaking to a psychologist quite often, which, yes, you know, family and my close friends and just, you know, speaking about it. I started speaking to a psychologist quite often, which, yeah, you know, you'd walk into a session and you'd think, you know, I'm not going to tell her anything. I'm going to talk to her.

And, you know, at the end of it, it's just like word vomit and you walk out and you're like, I didn't want to tell her all of that. It just all comes out, doesn't it? Yeah, literally. They just have a way of just, you know, getting it all out, making you feel comfortable. Sometimes I don't say anything and you're like, ooh. Yeah, okay, this has happened. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, I think, I mean, everyone could see that I was struggling,

but I feel that, you know, people are worried about asking the question because I don't really know how to actually be there for someone. But, you know, I just needed people to talk to and to know that I was going through it. And after I started doing that, you know, the weight had lifted and I felt like, you know, I had people to support me. I had people to get me through and, you know, it got easier and easier. And then I got pregnant and found a new, you know, gratitude and respect for my body and never looked back really. Sometimes you just need someone to sit and listen, you know, not to ask too many questions and it's super, super powerful.

So, I mean, Sam, like I've got a young daughter as well and, you know, you talk about social media and body image and, I mean, as professional athletes you guys are, you know, monitored around the clock with your training, your eating, you're constantly doing weigh-ins, all this sort of stuff because they know where the optimal performance is. So you must go home and try and go to bed and consistently think about that. Like I know I would. And it's like, there must be so many young women out there that are going through this journey of becoming a professional athlete and not having the support.

So it's good to know that there was team psychologists, you could reach out to someone and actually just tell them how you're feeling. So it's super encouraging knowing that the game's getting bigger too, and all the female sports getting bigger and they're going to have people to be able to talk to. Yeah, for sure. And I think the more you talk about it, the more you realize that there's so many other athletes that are going through it. And I think, you know, when when I started talking about openly the amount of people that I heard back from that were going through a similar thing and then you know you have a little community that you're kind of helping along because yeah you get better but of course there's still days that you like oh like how was I how was I in that space to start off with and you know will I ever fall back into that and you know there's still

a little you know voice in your head all the time. It's not something that you can just get rid of, especially still living the athlete life. So it's definitely tough. It worries me with Harper for sure growing up now. Katrina, you've spoken before about the fact that you always wanted to be a mum by the time you were 30. Yeah.

Because your journey to being a mother was a little bit unique in that you went down the route of IVF and you were a single parent. The decision to start IVF, how long had that been marinating for and when did you decide to pull the trigger? Honestly, probably for 10 years or more. It's all I thought about. I always, any of my friends that ask me, which is, it sounds so crazy, but when I was like 15,

my friends would be like, so, like, do you reckon you'd have kids? I'm like, yeah, I'm going to be a single mom. Wow. That's a weird thing to say. It's also so confident. Yeah, well, I mean, I didn't know it, but I just like, I mean, we went through a divorce as kids and, like, my parents were great and they got along and we were very lucky. But just going through that, I never, I mean, we went through a divorce as kids and like my parents were great and they got along and we were very lucky.

But just going through that, I never, I thought, you know, I don't want to put my kids through that kind of thing. And so I just always thought, oh, I'll be a single mom. And then when I was, you know, starting to get late 20s, I just thought I was over in Norway at the time I got injured. And I thought, I'm just going to, you know, see if there's a clinic close to me. And, you know, three weeks later I walked in and another two weeks later I walked out pregnant.

So it was really quite, yeah, it was crazy. Like because when I walked in, I wasn't due for my period, but I walked in and I got it as soon as I got in the door, which was just wild. Yeah. And like my period is due, like it's usually on the day at the same time. Oh, my God, that clockwork. So literally.

So, yeah, it was crazy and, yeah, he said, well, we can start today. And it was in COVID time, so really difficult to get a flight back home. Yeah. So then when they did the egg retrieval, it was a day late and I was flying out three days after that. So they actually put the embryo in almost two days earlier than what they usually would. So I sat cross-legged on the flight back.

Touchdown into two weeks of quarantine. Wow. I mean, you didn't tell anyone. You just went along and did it on your own? Yeah. I just, I was worried that somebody was going to, you know, talk me out of it, tell me to think about football or. Yeah.

Did you tell anybody at all? Obviously the guy at the clinic. Yeah, the guy at the clinic knew and the nurses knew. But no, I hid everything. And I was living with four of the players at the time and was hiding like my injections in ice cream containers in the fridge. So it was kind of like exciting. I felt like a little kid again trying to hide things. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah, it was crazy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Norway is unique in that you don't get to decide the sperm donor. Is that right? You just get given? Do you have any type of checklist to say like I want them to be good at sport? Blue eyes.

Yeah. In finance. Yeah. No, I mean, I probably could have, but I guess because I didn't really have a partner for them to match anyone with, I kind of just said I wanted them to be Scandinavian, which I don't even like. I love the Scandies. I think they're cool.

They're a bit like, you know, Australians. I wanted to be quite far away from Australia. And other than that, I just, I thought it was nice that I didn't get a whole profile on them because I think then it leaves out the expectation, you know, if he's a great, you know, footballer and I'm a great footballer, then Harper's going to be a great footballer. So, you know, I felt like I didn't really pick my partners like that, so I didn't want to pick tiny little details of somebody's profile and I thought it was kind of a nice way to do it. It can all be a fun, surprising journey how they turn out and how they look.

I watched your Australian story with my wife and she was just like, she was a blubbering mess. She was crying because she was so happy for this whole story. But she was like such a cute kid and I was like, you know, she didn't get a choice in any of that. It was just like so, it's just such a unique situation. Do they say what race? Do you go into that much detail?

No. I mean, I said Scandinavian. So I knew he was somewhere, you know, Danish, Swedish in that vicinity. But no, apart from that, I knew he was somewhere you know Danish Swedish um in that vicinity but no apart from that I knew he was healthy they obviously all have health checks and in uh in Norway they can only have five families so I thought that was quite good um as well where right in the US they can have they can have 99 families oh my god is that where all these documentaries are coming out? It's like someone's got like 99 kids. Yeah, literally. Wow.

I felt like Norwegians were quite trustworthy, so I probably, you know, hopefully no documentaries come out of the clinic. You'll be on Netflix. When you got back to Brisbane, you told your mum you were about four weeks pregnant at the time. Yeah. What was it like sharing the news with her?

Well, at the time, there was quite a few kids coming in the family. To be honest, I think her words were, fuck me dead. That's beautiful. Well said. She didn't know what a pregnancy test was, so she didn't really understand and she thought I was giving it the box of little socks and stuff on my sister's behalf, which I don't know where she got it.

I think she just never in her mind thought that I would stop playing football and get pregnant. I suppose it would be a big shock for her. I mean, you've come back, you've come out of quarantine. It's like, oh, I'm back. Um, and I'm, I'm pregnant. Yeah. Yeah. So obviously first thought was always, uh, you know, football, but you know, the day later she, she came to the blood test and she's been by my side through every, um, national team camp. So she came around pretty quickly and now Harper's just her favorite human in the world. So. Had you worked out the logistics of it all?

Not at all. Not at all. Like, mum and I had never spoken about it. Forgive us. We're two men, very naive. How long's a pregnancy? No, no, no, we don't. We just know.

We just know. But, like, how long did you play? How many weeks until it was like, okay, we can't play anymore just because it's an impact sport? Yeah. Yeah, so I played up until I was about 11 weeks. I probably could have played a few more weeks longer, but I still had – so I had osteotis pubis before I got it,

which is like almost like fractures in the bone on your pubic bone. And I was trying to rehab that that but it didn't go away. So the bigger that she was getting, the more weight that was going through my pelvis and by like 11 weeks, I could barely get out of bed. I could barely walk in the morning. I just stopped a few weeks earlier than I would have liked to but yeah, it was definitely a special 11 weeks. I scored a goal and was pregnant and yeah, definitely a special one

to look back on for sure. Again, our naivety here with professional athlete women that are going through a pregnancy, what's the support like from – they're essentially your employer, right? So, from the team that you're playing for at the time, what's there? I mean, Brisbane were awesome. I was playing for Brisbane at the time. They were awesome. I still went to training.

I still tried to take on more of a leadership role when I wasn't playing. So that was really nice and could obviously get treatment when I was there. I was trying to do a fair bit of strength work. I couldn't really run after that. And then the national team were awesome as well. Helped me with a women's health physio when I was returning. Always were on the phone to see what else I could do. To be honest, I didn't even know if I wanted to return to football after I had it. Like I hadn't really thought about it. I just, yeah, I was pretty happy just going to be a mum.

And then it kind of all changed when she came Earthside and I thought, you know what, let's try and get to the World Cup together. Yeah, that's crazy, hey. Before we go into that, I do want to ask, childbirth is a pretty crazy experience. Was it smooth sailing for you, Katrina? No. And I say that and I kind of know the answer, but obviously people won't know the answer. Yeah.

No, my birth experience was quite crazy. So on the Friday, it was my birthday, 13th of August. Two days after. My waters somewhat broke. So I had a slow leak for three days. Oh, my goodness. So, yeah, didn't sleep. I thought it was happening.

Nothing was happening. And then by the Sunday, they had to induce me. And then, of course, when they induced me, she turned spine to spine. So is that posterior? No, like OP. So her spine, so she was still head down, but her spine was on my spine. Right. So just incredibly painful.

Have you ever heard of water shots? Water shots? Yeah, so they stick like six needles in your back at the same time. Oh, six? Yeah, yeah. Oh, shit. Because I didn't really want to like i didn't want to take any painkillers so i was on the gas and i was just in excruciating pain so they're like we can try the water shots anyway it's like six bee stings at the same time oh and it's meant

to like i guess send neural signals to your brain to say like you're not in pain which it worked but only for two hours so oh my goodness at the end of that i thought just give me the epidural did you get the epi i had the epidural yeah i did yeah and then i was just laying there watching a footy game it's funny like probably should have this to start off with my wife had an epidural like our our firstborn, similar thing, turned spine to spine. And she was like, just give me that epidural. And after that, she was sweet.

She was just like, can't feel anything. It's wild. Yeah. Well, I had mum in the room with me and she, I mean, she's had five kids and she had no pain relief. Oh, my God. Well, if you can do it, then I can do it, like surely. Yeah. But no. But when they put can do it, then I can do it. Like, surely. Yeah.

But no. So, but when they put the epidural in, they missed three times. So, I had, like, blood spurting out of my back. And my mom was like, I can't deal with this. Like, what's happening? Oh, my God. But, yeah, it just got worse and worse after that, even after the epidural. Like, lost a liter of blood, started vomiting blood.

Holy. Yeah, it was pretty wild wild but literally a minute later was like do that all again it was cool yeah wow it's crazy like i mean yeah vomiting blood and then cool aren't too yeah a sentence that's not when you hold them in your arms you're like what a cool thing like yeah yeah it's a surreal moment. It changed you instantly. Were you able to then enjoy your time with Harper or because of the loss of blood? Did they have to say, we've got to, you know, try and sort you out now? You're not in a place where you can just relax with baby?

I mean, when I first told her, I thought I was going to pass out. And I was about to give her up, but then I started spewing. And after that, I felt okay. Then they jabbed me with a million needles and anyway we're fine after that but she she was completely fine so we got all of our nice skin to skin and she started feeding straight away and yeah it was pretty perfect and you're like this is all worth it yeah yeah literally um but I'm going to be on your side in the next couple of weeks so I'll let you know how that goes.

Not as many needles. I might sneak a bit of the gas, to be honest. Go for it. Yeah, yeah. Was Harper a good sleeper at first? Like how did the sleep come about? I always say you get a sleeper or a non-sleeper. For me, it was kind of like I didn't have to share a bed with my partner. There was no one in the room. It was just us. So,

I think for that, it was quite nice. I pretty much had her in my bed. She started in the co-sleeper for a couple of days. We had a snoo, but it was just easier because I was feeding. Just put her in the bed. When she woke, you know, quickly change her, you know, feed her and she would sleep and continue to sleep. So, I think that's why it made like my return a fair bit easier because, I mean, I still used to get, you know, a decent amount of sleep at night and then after training I'd come home and probably nap with her for three, four hours. Well, that's the dream. I don't do that now.

I don't want to alarm you, Katrina, but it normally happens that you get one good one and one tricky one. But we're hoping that we've skipped it because it's technically Clara's curse. That's true. Well done. Loophole. Yeah, we hope we skipped it and it's actually Harper's twin that we well, not twin, but the embryo was taken out at the same time as Harper. So he's just been in the freezer for a little bit so maybe same age there as well same age yeah maybe hopefully the

same sort of um you know personality sleep yeah we're hoping that yeah yeah I'll let you know same donor yeah yeah so everything's same oh. Oh, wow. Definitely a boy, yeah? Yeah, definitely a boy. What if he looks exactly the same? Well, when we had the 3D photos, he almost looked a spitting image of Harper. Oh, my God. I'm excited to see now. I mean, she's got, like, really big lips, which I have to thank the Dona for.

Thanks, Dona. It's a Kardashian. Yeah, literally. Yeah, he has really big lips too. There you go. After you have Harper, do you remember when you thought, yeah, I could definitely make a return here to professional sport? To be honest, when I felt like I wanted to run again.

So I started running I think about nine weeks after I had her and I felt amazing. It felt like I was a little kid again. I hadn't even kicked the ball but just moving and then, you know, slowly introducing football stuff honestly felt like I was 10 years old again. And, yeah, from then I just, you know, every time I played, I just enjoyed it more. But I think, you know, when I didn't have Harper, I'd go back and I'd think about, you know, all the bad things I did in training,

what I did badly in the game, and I would just be so stuck in just a football spiral almost. And now I'm just – I get off the field and, you know, I'm a mum and we move on and she laughs at me. She doesn't care what I did on the field and, you know, I'm a mum and we move on and she laughs at me. She doesn't care what I did on the field or, you know, if we won, lost, if I scored a known goal or what happened. And I think that's why it's changed football for me. It's, you know, I do it because I love it and then I get off the field

and, you know, it's the best thing in the world. And how is it, I'm trying to like, I think having a kid can be such a handicap. Don't tell them that. No. I love my kids to death, but, you know, we know, Ash, that there's many times where we try and catch up for work and one of our kids is unwell and it's really bloody hard.

I'm just trying to imagine for yourself as a single parent trying to play professional sport, how much harder is it compared to when you didn't have a kid? Yeah, it definitely is hard, especially, I mean, I was feeding her until she was one. So even preparing that before a game was really difficult. Obviously, a pre-game routine would consist of changing nappies and, you know, making sure she's happy instead of, you know, doing all the normal things. But, yeah, it's definitely got its challenges for sure.

You move back to Sweden. She's signed with the Sweden club. Can you pronounce that Swedish club for us, please? I'm probably going to butcher it, but I say Vitsval. Yeah, see, that's bang on, I reckon. Yeah, you would know. Yeah, yeah. I totally know.

Yep, tick. I approve that. I'm going to put it into Google later and I'll figure it out. See, you're in Sweden away from your family where even speaking English, I guess Swedes are pretty good normally. Yeah. But, like, you know, you can't just go down to the chemist and, like, pick out things yourself because everything's in Swedish.

Yeah, look, you know, when I got over there, I actually thought like, what am I doing? How am I even going to do this? But the club were incredible. They found nannies for us. So I'd bring her to training. She'd get looked after there. She'd come on all the bus trips or new way trips um she came everywhere with me so it was actually really nice but just

you know the simple things most of their apartments don't have lifts so I had to cut her her pram groceries washing up three flights of stairs every day like yeah I've got pretty big arm muscles out of it it's like a separate fitness routine, isn't it? Yeah, literally. But, yeah, just those small things that you, you know, you kind of take for granted when you've got support around in Australia. But, obviously, Clara was quite helpful. Yeah, the club were awesome.

They helped us wherever they could. I had a few of the girls around me that would help. But, yeah, we slowly figured it out let's talk about clara a little bit yeah were you were you looking for love at all was this absolutely not be honest with us katrina no i i was so done with you know relationships i just wanted to focus on me and harper and getting back and enjoying football but This is one of those cliche scenarios where it's like, as soon as you stop looking, it'll find you. Exactly right.

Yeah. Because I was a relationship person. I loved him. I was, yeah. You know, I had some quite long relationships before that. And, yeah, I was known to be in relationships. But then it was like, no, this is my time. It's just me and Harper.

We're going to enjoy our time over here. But that changed pretty quickly. So you played with Clara. Is that where you met? Yeah, and she kind of likes to help the internationals when they go over. I guess she knows how hard it is to do things. So she was quite helpful before we got there, found us an apartment and things like that.

Maybe she had a crush on me before I even got there. I don't know. Did she just say that as like, I help all the internationals? I do it for everyone. Yeah. Yeah. I've tried to ask her that several times. Deny, deny, deny.

Yeah, literally. But no, even our coach said to, I think he said to her, you know, I think you and Gori would be a good match or something like that. Oh, wow. So, he called it before it all happened. My mum called it before it happened. So, yeah, I guess, I mean, she's just such a, like, kind, loving and helpful person. And, like, my mum's hated all my partners.

So, she really loved Clara. So, that was kind of just a tick of approval that I needed and, yeah. Do you remember when the feeling became mutual where you went, hang on a minute, I think I love this person? Do you remember that? I mean, to be fair, it probably happened pretty quickly. I guess, you know, I'd seen her with Harper before. You know, I knew who she was around the team.

I knew that she just wasn't putting on a show for me. Yeah, she was just, yeah, I pretty much knew straight away that she was my person. So yeah, everything happened pretty quickly. It's pretty awesome. Yeah. How are you feeling now? You're on the brink of becoming a parent for the second time. Are you feeling a lot more prepared coming into it the second time round? Yeah, probably. Obviously know what happens. So I think that's definitely helpful. I think I'll be a good birth partner and I'm like, I'm kind of excited for the challenge on the other side.

Like how good of a birth partner can I be? How long can I keep her at home when she wants to go to the hospital? Actually, for any dads who are listening, as someone who has given birth, what's your advice? What can the other partner do in the room, the person who's not giving birth? Good question. Don't faint, one of them.

Yeah, probably don't faint. I don't know. I had my mum and my sister, so it's really hard, and they both obviously had given birth. Do you have a plan going in? What's your plan going in? I'm just going to, gonna like lead her into the hospital she's gonna have a blindfold on so she doesn't really know what's going on around her

i can't tell if you're i don't know if you're serious maybe it's like a swedish thing that they do i want you to blindfold me and drag me into that hospital. Yeah, exactly. You know, you need all the oxytocin. No, but just like keep her in her zone as much as I can. For some reason she wants me to mention that it's like doing the yo-yo test. What's the yo-yo test? You know when you like run and then you get to another level and it gets faster? Oh, the beat test.

Oh, the beat test. Yeah, similar to the beep test. Yo-Yo is a little bit different, but yeah, similar. So she kind of has referred to labor as like the Yo-Yo test, like, you know, the contractions get stronger, but then they level out a little bit. So I don't know. I don't think most people would want to be reminded of a Yo-Yo test,

but anyway. No, that's good. Katrina, both Matt and I have kids that are currently in daycare, kindy, preschool, however you want to say it. You are currently living in the UK and now Harper is attending kindy over there. How did she fit in? How is she fitting in? We were lucky.

She loves kindy in the UK, but when we were in Sweden, we got her in, they call it, first school. Sweden, to be fair, you don't pay much. I think we're paying $100 and she could go one day, five days. Wow. Flexible. Yeah. So it's based on your income. And so we paid $100 a month and she could go however much she wanted.

That's it. We're moving to Sweden. We're moving to Sweden, everybody. Yeah, literally. I mean, the uk is crazy but um yeah we were really excited for her just to because obviously she had so much adult interaction that we wanted her to interact with kids we wanted her to you know keep on learning swedish um but she just hated it i'd never seen her you know she goes to so many different people but she never wanted she

would see the top of the building out of her car seat and start screaming in the car like wow um but you know she loves being outdoors and they would send us pictures of her laying in the pram just lifeless like there was nothing in her face like it breaks your heart seeing that oh and i would just i would go home and because our training was at, you know, night, so she didn't really need to be there. I was at home. I would sit there and just like pretty much cry and be like, what am I doing?

Why am I putting her through this? I'd make any excuse, you know, if she has a bit of a running nose, I'd, you know, oh, no, she's staying home with me. Yeah. So it was really, really difficult, probably one of the most difficult times I've had trying to figure out what's actually right and what's not. And eventually we took her out and moved to the UK

and the place she loves it now. I can't, you know, we go to pick her up. It started at 2 o'clock. Now it's being pushed to 5 o'clock and we walk in and she doesn't want to bar above. Yeah, I'm sort of going through that too. Like I've had a few moments. It does break your heart when you see them. we walk in and she doesn't want to bar up us. Yeah, I'm sort of going through that too. I've had a few moments.

It does break your heart when you see them. Like for us, I walk out up against the fence and some days are good, some days are bad, but it does break your heart and you're like, am I doing the right thing here? We've talked about it. I've turned back and gone in and grabbed the kid and left because I just felt like it was just too heartbreaking. Yeah, I mean, how can they learn stuff when they're that distressed, you know?

I just, you know, when Harper was crying and cleaning her and saying, no, Mama, don't go, no, Mama, please. I'm like, then I start crying and I'm like, no, you don't go. Come on, let's go together. Yeah. I mean, maybe she was just a bit older when she got to the UK kindy, but, I mean, maybe she was just a bit older when she got to the UK, Kindy, but, I mean, they're incredible with her.

Like, some days she doesn't really want to go in with the kids and so she gets to work in the office with the girls. Yeah. They're pretty chill there, which has been really nice, and she loves it. So it just costs me my arm and my leg. As long as they're happy. Yeah, right? Yeah. I'm glad she's found somewhere where she's a bit more comfortable because there's nothing worse than that drop off isn't there she's got expensive taste yeah literally budget place before oh yeah i don't want to be there

how old was harper when the world started? Because she obviously became a cult figure on socials. I mean, I followed it, my wife followed it, we all followed along with Harper and yourself and the team and everything that was happening. So how old was she when that kicked off? She turned two during the World Cup. Yeah, and I saw there was a lot of footage with her and your mum and all the support that you had around. What was it like going into a World Cup and having essentially

your number one supporter get to follow you around the whole time and follow the team around? And what was the vibe like having a kid there the whole time? Yeah, I mean, it was incredible. I think, you know, when a tournament is so tense, you know, she just made it fun. She always brought light to the room you know when alana got uh concussed and wasn't able to play like half could see that she was you know the kids they just know so intuitive she just went up to her yeah and just cuddled her and like just wouldn't leave her side because she just felt like

she needed that um so there was definitely really like really nice moments in the World Cup that, you know, she just brought light to it or just made us focus on something else for a little bit. So, it was so nice having her there. Obviously, having mum there was pretty special too and all my family. But yeah, I just, I could never have dreamt that the World Cup would have been like that, that, you know, Australia was so behind us and that but you know australia was so behind us and that you know football and you know women's sport has changed forever in australia it's just it's yeah it's honestly crazy you know what's going to happen katrina when this time comes when you do retire they'll still have her on a contract as the mascot and you'll get dragged

into camp as well. Yeah. No, I'm all fine for that. It was such a pivotal moment in Australian sport. I mean, I remember I got to go to one game, which I've been to a lot of sporting events, and the atmosphere against – it was against Denmark, and I was quite close to the field, which was amazing. But the atmosphere was like something I'd never been a part of. It was unbelievable the amount of people riding that wave.

Do you feel incredibly proud for everything that you and the Matildas achieved over that time? Yeah, for sure. I think, you know, from where it's come from to where it is now, it's just, yeah, like I said, it's an absolute dream. And for now the next generation to kind of live through that um and get to you know pave the way for them I think it's so special for us to leave the game in a better place and there's actually a trailblazer film that's coming

a documentary that's coming out on stand I think that really goes through you know where the Matildas were and where they are now. And I think to look back on the World Cup like that is, yeah, it will be something that we hold close to our hearts forever. Katrina, I do want to ask, as a father to two girls, when they do turn into teenagers, as someone who was a little bit tricky as a 13-year-old, what advice would you give? Gosh, maybe you can give me advice when they turn 13 so I can help Harper. We'll just go down the line. I don't know. Honestly, I'd probably have to ask my mom.

I was just such a menace. I don't think anyone could help me or give me advice. I don't know. Let me put it slightly differently. Give them whatever they want, yeah. Yeah, if you were going to give Harper some advice about her future, what would it be? I mean, probably play any sport that you can,

take any opportunity that you possibly can, have good friends around you, and make sure you continue to make your mum your best friend. That's good. That is good. Yeah. Katrina, you are an incredible athlete, an incredible mum who's got such awesome stories. Thank you so much for sharing that with us today. Thank you so much, Katrina. I appreciate it. No worries. Loved being here. Matt, what an amazing chat. We got to talk about all sorts

of things. We got to talk mainly about what i love most which is sport and parenting thanks so much to katrina for giving us her time and if you enjoyed this episode ash and i and katrina would also love it if you left a five-star review also suggest any other doting parents you would love to have on the podcast. Until next time, goodbye. Bye. Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community.

We pay our respects to their elders, past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. This episode was recorded on Gadigal land.