Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash - Three Doting Dads feat. Max Gawn

Episode Date: August 20, 2023

We had the privilege of sitting down with Doting Dad, Max Gawn. He's a professional AFL player, premiership winning captain of the Melbourne Football Club and ambassador for lululemon. We chat about his journey to becoming a professional athlete, the mistakes he made after he got drafted, juggling the AFL grand final and impending birth of his son, the emergency c-section (post grand final win), how he tries to be a better dad for George and what advice he has for other dads. 💥💥💥 FATHERS DAY GIVEAWAY💥💥💥 Thanks to lululemon, we’re giving away a $500 gift card to one lucky dad to help him look and feel his best! Simply follow @Twodotingdads and @lululemonausnz on the gram and tag your dad or father figure in our latest post. We'll pick a winner and announce it on the pod and socials on August 30. If you're looking to kit your dad out this Father’s Day, check out lululemon's awesome men’s range here! Slide into our DM's with any Doting Dads or Mums you'd like us to interview. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Good news. If you're listening to this, it means you were joining us for a bonus episode of Two Doting Dads. These are the episodes where we have a guest that comes on the podcast, another parent out there, to talk to us about how they're managing one of the hardest jobs in the world. And we're very excited because today we have Maxie Gorn. I don't know if we can call her Maxie Gorn. I kind of just, I feel like Max Gorn, Maxie Gorn. We call her Maxie Gorn because we are obviously now very good friends. Yeah, besties. Max Gorn.

Within the inner circle, as some may say. If you're in the inner sanctum with Max Gorn, you can call him Maxie. For everybody else, please only refer to him as Max. But for those of you who do not know Max, he is a captain of the Melbourne AFL Club. He's also proud dad to George. Born in October, four weeks after Melbourne's drought-breaking premiership win in 2021. Max is also an ambassador for Lululemon, Matthew, which Lululemon are, as you know, the leaders in technical athletic apparel. But they also have amazing men's casual wear, which you can see us head to toe.

Maxie as well can i just say thank you so much to you me because you have brought this relationship together you went on that japanese i went to japan lululemon stride we have built that friendship where it now extends to the podcast and i couldn't be happier because i'm dressed head to toe right now in lululemon and i've never felt more beautiful well they are all about meaningful connections, well-being in the community, bringing people together, Matthew. So a huge thanks to them for having us.

We're actually situated in their office, which you'll see on our socials as well. And this episode wouldn't be made possible if it wasn't for them. Far away. Welcome back. Welcome back. Are you fucking kidding me?

For fuck's sake. Fucking hell. I'm sorry'm sorry i'm gonna muzzle you this is the professional production hard under the table Welcome back to Three Doting Dads. I am Matty J. I'm Ash. I'm Max Gorn. And today will be a little bit different because we always say this is a podcast about parenting, the good, the bad, the relatable. And we always try and make sure that people are aware that at no point throughout the podcast are we going to give any advice. But today... Very different today.

Today is a different story because we have Max here. And I feel like, Max, you're like the poster child of the AFL and what a dad should look and behave like. Absolutely. I mean, I think I'll take it as a compliment. That was intended as a compliment. Absolutely. We don't know.

I can go harder if you want. Don't push him. Don't push him. Don't push him. Keep my tongue into the water there. Nance, I love you. I'm not sure how much footy you guys will watch. I think Tom Hawkins

sort of reeks of a good looking dad. No, he's not here, is he? Yeah, he's not here. Hey, Tom. Yeah, I'm not lying. Yes, obviously I'm a father and I play AFL, so I tick both those boxes.

Got a little two-year-old, well close to two, Georgie boy. George Gorn. George Gorn. Strong. Strong. That's a great name. We liked the whole GG thing and we also liked a solid name. Any middle names?

Oliver. Yeah, right. As you can see, my wife is a monarchy fan. Yeah. And if you hadn't seen the shortlist, we've actually got another boy on the way. Oh, congratulations. And if you had seen the shortlist for names, it's very royal.

Were there any that you threw out that Jess, your wife said, no, no, no. He has not been a king. There is no. Oh, really? There's no King Michael. Well, there probably is. He's probably beheaded a few people. I've had some names.

I go in and out of names. I'm more, so Jess finds like 50 names and says yes to all. I'm no to every name and then there's one that pops in. I'm like, you can do that. Yeah, that's like with me too. My eldest is Oscar and every other name I put forward was like, nah, nah. And it was the one name. I was like, what about?

And when she said, yeah, I like that, I was shocked. I don't like the whole I know someone with that name. I know some Georges, but I know someone really well with that name. What was a name that was a hard no, that was thrown out by Jess? Jess's dream. I mean, we didn't have a girl, but Jess's dream was to call her first girl Rosie. Beautiful. Beautiful name, but I have negative was to call her first girl Rosie. Beautiful. Beautiful name, but I have negative connotations with that name.

What happened? Well, just a few people in my primary school. I love how you associate it with like primary school, preschool. Primary school. I haven't seen the person since, but hopefully not a massive listener. Yeah, that just stems from there. And then straight away, if I called my daughter Rosie, I'd be thinking of that person from primary school.

You don't want that. You don't need that. And it's her dream to have a daughter. Lucky we're not having a daughter. Well, not, sorry. I would love a daughter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It changes you when you have a girl.

I guess your son could be a Rosie. It could be, you know, these names, there's certain ones out there. You just don't know now, yeah. Right. Lucinda's one that could kind of go both. You just don't know them now, yeah. Right. Lucinda's one that could kind of go both ways. I don't know. Potentially could have saved it. And then my boy name was Vinny.

Oh, that's cool. I like that. Yeah, but then because of I'm a massive home and away man growing up. Yeah. And wasn't Vinny like the main actor, the lifeguard, you guys home and away? Was he with Kate Ritchie? No idea. I've never seen an episode of Home and Away.

Is that un-Australian of me? You probably did a fair bit of homework coming in today, but Home and Away wouldn't have been. No, no, I thought about it. I was like- Just in case. Let's check every Australian TV show. I was like, surely not, right, Ash?

He's like, he'll never bring it up. He'll never bring up Home and Away. We actually had that conversation, but here we are. But speaking of primary school, what were you like as a youngster were you someone who got into mischief uh i've always battled with i mean this goes into more of a adulthood type issue but i've always battled with wanting to be liked type setup one of my greatest values but also a weakness is my sense of belonging i really enjoy that and then you battle with wanted to be like so primary, I'd lead to primary school.

Everything stems from just wanting to be liked, wanting to not miss out, FOMO, all that sort of stuff. So did you try and slot into that role of being liked by being the class clown at all? Certainly would have gone down that path. I would say it would be a majority of my report cards. Distracts others easily was etched into my brain. I feel like that's on everyone's report cards. Distracts others easily was etched into my brain. I feel like that's on everyone's report card. Even knock the class pet would have distract.

Got to even it out a little bit. Yeah, you got to throw it in there. It's just like a standard remark. I know, you're like 10 years old. It's like, you know, I don't really know any different. Yeah. When did you really hit your height? Statue wise, that is.

Yeah. Because you are close to 12 foot. Yeah, just under. Just 11. Yeah, 11.6. You shook my hand when we first met and I just got lost in your grip. Okay. I didn't get that sensation from you, but...

I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. There was a moment where just time stood still. It's just a really big hand. Matt's one of those guys who's six foot but tells everyone he's six two. Okay. That's all right. Six one and a half.

My whole family's six foot flat. Really? And then I'm six ten. It's weird. So what happened? Either the milkman or – so my mum's six foot. So that's tall. That's tall, yeah.

So mum, dad, two brothers, all six foot. Big family, man. Big family. A lot of food. Yeah. Obviously. Those dad, two brothers, all six foot. Big family, man. Big family, a lot of food. Yeah. Obviously. Those grocery bills must have been a bloody nightmare. Yeah.

Well, now I'm going to have a second boy and already have a boy and I'm a big eater so the grocery bills continue in this household. But the height-wise, year 12. So not until I was 18. I was tall. Sorry, I was always tall. But when I got to 6'10 tall, yeah, year 12. So I was actually like a bit of a midfielder type setup

when I was playing football as a young kid. Roughly, just ballpark, how tall are we talking at this point? We're going in like grade 11, grade 12. I was always in sort of the year 11, year 10, I was always in the 190s. Sorry, low 190s. I'm not sure what that is. Six foot's 187, isn't it?

Yeah. So maybe like 6'1". I know this, Ash. Sorry, because you're. I'm not sure what that is. Six foot's 187, isn't it? Yeah. So, maybe like six, six one. I know this, Ash. Sorry, because you're 5'10". Yeah. I'm the tallest in my family, though. Just so you guys know. Disappointing.

I go home and I feel great. I know. She's going to be tiny. Yeah. And then year 12, I went to 208, which I am now. Wow. And so, then did that have like a positive or negative effect on your footy? It had a negative effect on my body.

As you can imagine, growing that quickly, you're probably going to – something's going to give. My knees gave when I was young. So I'm two knee recos. I won't go into them fully. I know it's not a – it's certainly not a footy podcast. It's certainly not a physio podcast. But yeah, I had a lot of injuries just when I was a young kid

and probably from that put on a lot of weight real quickly as well, which would have put a lot of joints under pressure, I'm guessing. Did your feet grow really big too? Yeah, they're still growing. How about that? What are you now? So I'm a 14. Get out of here.

And so long story short, the boot I wore stopped making this type of boot and I got worded up that they were going to stop making it so i brought 12 pairs i brought 12 pairs of this when you're in grade 12 no no this is now this is now so i brought 12 pairs of this boot and stocked up and i'm still i'm down to my last pair now so i'm playing out there with my last anybody listening that has a size 40 right now if you knocked on their door and said, you couldn't give me a size 14. Well, no, but I've stopped making them. The issue is I'm now like a 14.2. So the boots I'm wearing is a bit too small for me and my feet aren't responding great from it.

Oh, my God. So my foot has grown since I first brought these two or three years ago. You're 32? 32 this year, yeah. So you're 91 born. 91. 32 and still growing. Have doctors said, hey, Maxie, we don't know when this is going to slow down.

We're looking at the projection. The graph is telling us that it's going to- If you live to 90, my God, your foot's going to be about that big. Imagine that. Imagine my foot. Because 14 is where it stops in terms of shops. Yeah, you've got a special order. Shops don't stock 15s for some reason.

They stock 14s. So I can go in casually to a Chadson and expect a 14 to be there. But 15, I'm going to America type stuff. Yeah, totally. I suppose like they're probably like, no, look, we wouldn't sell enough of those shoes to actually warrant making them and putting them in shops. I do just want to sit on foot content for a bit longer.

Okay. We'll keep moving forward. Sorry. People right now are like, am I on the right podcast? Well, George is a six, if that helps. Yeah, George is a six or a seven. Shit. Oh, my God.

He's gone through a couple of pairs of shoes already. Oh, my God. Yeah, he just must be just churning through. He's got two wears and they're out. He's a big boy. There's a popular thing in football at the moment. I'm sharing the ruck load with a guy named brodie grundy and we're both sort of good rucks in our own right that have joined the same team and i was sitting there going my son's two he's about six foot six already there's a good chance we

just go me and my son rather than going all that effort to get Brodie into Melbourne yeah has there been a father son match up on a team in like modern day era like close but the son didn't end up being talented enough to make it no pressure George yeah yeah they later disowned him so you're grade 12 you've had this huge growth spurt you've got a few injuries at this point are you thinking that hey a real career for me is going to be afl or is it more just a sport that you're enjoying at the time certainly enjoying all my mates played footy my parents are kiwis so i didn't have much footy didn't play like the real junior stuff actually played rugby union as a junior found out i didn't like tackling so it probably wasn't the sport for me yeah and then yeah footy came into it then i

worked out i was relatively talented at it and then injuries hit in and around year 12 exams and schoolies and all sorts of stuff i love how schoolies is on par with year 12 exams no i got drafted the day before oh but i was paid ready to go right so you can't there's no time to like celebrate training the next day oh my god drafted didn't know where your club they probably do that so that you don't go or that simple reason light yourself up in service and then be like

no we were barring the crew that I was barring how did the boys react to well they all came over draft night so I was relatively confident draft night I had a few people there

would have been a miserable night if that didn't go the right way would have been a piss up then and then they took off to schoolies and I took off to training wow but yeah I always had a few people there. Would have been a miserable night if that didn't go the right way. Would have been a piss up then. And then they took off to schoolies and I took off to training. Wow. But yeah, I always had a sneaky feeling

in and around that year 12 year that football was going to be the go for me. I was still relatively good at school. I'm a mathematician almost. Like I was really good at maths. Don't test me right now. I haven't- I was just about to whip some-

I haven't really studied. 64 divided by three. I've got you now. So I always had that to whip some... 64 divided by three. I've got you now. So I always had that to fall back on. And who opened you up to the world of AFL? Certainly friends. My dad, even though now he thinks he is... Responsible.

Yeah, knows his way around a football field, but he doesn't. It was friends. It was around 14, 15, I dare say. So I was sort of a late bloomer late bloomer yeah in that sense I always loved it though my whole family didn't really watch football but I was watching it at home

I'm the Australian born in the family the rest are all Kiwi born are you the youngest? yeah youngest of how many? three three okay

so yeah around 15 getting serious around 17 and I've been at the same football club since I was 17 wow I've been in Melbourne that whole time loyal

so when you got drafted in your first year, how did you find that change of lifestyle? It's a lot. So the best way to put this is private school kids tend to get a better chance of getting drafted. And if you look through the AFL, 90% are private school. Just because they get more attention, there's more funding. And the talented kids tend to get, if they're talented at 15,

they get a scholarship. So they're usually private school. So I'm from a public school with a family that don't know football and I get drafted to a place that I had no idea how to act. And I've got a famous story that you two probably haven't come across. In my first year, I got caught having a cigarette on the way to training. No. Yeah.

Fuck. What? What were you just walking or was it in the car? Was it a winning red? Do you know the Monash Freeway? No, no. So there's a freeway that goes, we train in Cranbourne, which is 40 minutes away.

And I live in the city. Most people do. And so I was driving down to Cranbourne and I just, this is me at 17. This is how professional I thought I was. I just lit up a dart on the way down to training thinking no one else would be on the freeway at the same time oh my god were you craving a hit of nicotine or i had a deck left in the car from the night before i drove some of my mates out

all right so i didn't i don't think i i probably had brought a deck or two but i don't think that was my deck of cigarettes i was a pj gold if And, yeah, I just thought no one would be on the – I don't know what I was thinking. And Carl Cheney, a teammate of mine, was on the road next to me and I didn't see him. So imagine what he's seeing because I haven't tried to hide it or anything. He's seen me probably just living my best life. Windows down.

Having the best – At least you weren't drinking at the same time. Yeah, well, I didn't get to that. No, I wasn't drinking at the same time. Yeah, well, I didn't get to that. No, I wasn't drinking at the same time. Was he like a senior play? No, but his best mate was the captain. And then the captain found out. And then I remember having, this is in my fourth week or something,

the leisure group was nine people, semi-circle, me in the middle. And they set me up. Brett Maloney, who's sharp right, goes, have you been doing whatever it takes to – because whatever it sharp right, goes, have you been doing whatever it takes to – because whatever it takes was our motto. Have you been doing whatever it takes? Yes. You've just got to remember I've had the dart thinking I've just –

only I knew I had the dart. What was your first answer? I said yes. I said yep. With a confident yes? Confident yep. You're like, yeah, boys. Hang on, let me put this out.

And then another teammate went straight away and said, so you weren't having a dart on the way to training? I said, oh, Jesus, yeah. And then I blamed it on my family. Like I just was in a rabbit hole and I'm like, oh, how do I get out of this? You're just in there digging yourself. I said, mum and dad are addicted. Like they've never had a dart in their life.

I've thrown them under the bus. Mum and dad are addicted to smoking. So when they come to training, the club's like, no. No one smokers in here. I was late 11 times in my first three months. Oh, wow. Like I was late to school a lot and just flew on. Is that because you just were bad with time or you weren't taking it?

Probably a bit of both. Probably a bit bad with time. Like I haven't been late since my first year. So like whatever got installed in me in that first year, I've then gone completely the other way and rocking up. You guys saw me today. I was here literally two hours earlier. Half an hour earlier.

Yeah. I can imagine that you probably wouldn't be captain if you were rocking in late. I was still darting. Smoking darts on the way in. Boys. So the transformation, I had to grow. I had to become an adult quicker than all my mates. I dare say some of them are 31 and still not quite there.

And I had to do it sort of in a year. It was hard. I was 17 when I first got there. I had really bad professional standards. I was injured, so I wasn't playing football. Because your first ACL, and we won't talk too much about your injuries, but just really quickly, when was that? How old were you?

When I was 17. And so in those moments where, you know, an ACL, that's pretty serious, as bad as it gets really. Mentally, where are you at with that injury? Is it just a case of, well, I'll just recover as quick as I can and get back on the field? The first time you get drafted, it's a childhood dream. So I was halfway through my recap when I got drafted.

And, yeah, I'm like, how good is life? I'm drafted. I don't even have to train. And I get to play for Melbourne Football Club. I get the salary I'm getting. And that was pretty cool. The second one, I struggled a lot. That was when I was 20 and I'd been in the system for a couple of years.

And the thing that actually got me through was so like picture being in the gym by yourself doing a really hard bike ride or something like that by yourself in football world that's seen as like a lonely lonely place but i would have been doing that at 5 a.m before i worked if i wasn't playing football but i'm getting paid to do it at 9 o'clock in a state-of-the-art facility. That's what got me through a little bit. But yeah, I was young. I would hate to be injured now. I would hate to do an ACL now.

Do you think it helped, having an injury so young? Certainly. Yeah, it made me grow up quicker. The biggest issue I had when I first got to the club was how to be myself. I really struggled with that. I had this picture of the person they wanted me to be and I felt like the way I was acting, I was going the other way. And all the conversations that I had about me as a person

was all about changing that person and becoming this person. I feel like what I've eventually done is just cleaned this person up a tiny bit. But for a while there, I was like trying to full change and like I didn't know myself, didn't really have a good stance in the football club. What do you think was the turning point that allowed you to be more comfortable in your own skin? It's mentors and leaders.

And it's just getting yourself around the right ones. I'm not sure if you guys have heard, you probably would have, he's a living legend. Well, not living anymore, but he's a legend. He's Jim Stines. Yes. And he started the Reach Foundation, which is actually just around the corner from where we're recording today and he was our club

president and that's extremely lucky to have a guy like that be the club president I walked in and he was the one the whole time and it's amazing like he's had such a strength in adolescence now and you look back you go wow he was so good with me my draft won't bore you pick one pick two pick 10 pick 18 all in our team and i was picked 50 or something so i was down i was like the sixth guy no one was really that interested in me i was having a dart and jim steins randomly goes i like this guy because he could tell that i was a different cat and he just kept me on that wagon the whole time every time he saw me doing something that he thought wasn't me he's like come, come on, man, just do that.

Just do that the Max Gorn way. The hardest thing to do is to go out there on the MCAG in front of 90,000 and play football. Imagine trying to play football and not be Max Gorn at the same time. You're trying to be someone else. Yeah. Like it just seems like looking back, I'm like, why was I trying to do that for so long?

And it's now I'm captain. It allows me to know 18-year-olds are rocking up in all different shapes and sizes, with all different backgrounds. We're getting kids from the middle of Australia, bottom of Tasmania, private, public school, and they come in and I just know they're going to be different. And the best way for them to finally win a premiership

is to be themselves. That's a really good message. It goes into fatherhood as well. I'm sure we'll touch on that. You know, going to a footy club club with those sort of thoughts about yourself do they provide anywhere for you to go to seek support like other than just picking out the mentors that you want to be around do they physically or do they have you know people there that can support you through that sort of stuff certainly not old school football so So when I got drafted, men's mental health wasn't a thing.

I was sort of 2008, 2009 where it was almost just starting, but we had no one in that role. And it was still the football club was a place for banter, which is a shocking word. And there still is a bit of laughter around the football club and that would be a bad place to be if there wasn't. But nowadays it's just such a different vibe in not just football clubs in my circle of friends yeah which i think is a great thing that means

mental health has come a long way but yeah when i first started it was you'll be this guy or you're out of the system wow okay so there's no there was no like you'll be this guy but if you're not that guy we can help you become that guy unless, like you said, you picked your mentors. Because there would be so many young guys, you know, vulnerable young guys as well going through the system that have been drafted and put into your position and then fallen short because they don't have the mentor

or the support. So it's good to know, like, now our football club's like, well, we recognize that mental health is super important. And, you know, they've got a place for you to go and sometimes rediscover yourself yeah it's very it's very strong now if you were a footballer got drafted and you were struggling talent wise you'd be at the bottom of the pile the amount of bad news bad press the coaches the amount of stuff you'd be getting every day now it's look there's some stuff for you to work on we're going to work as you as a person and it's a much better place to be society-wide yeah because a lot of

the time like when people are having slumps in their form it can be mentally unless they're coming back from a really big injury i mean there's so much correlation between being in a happy place and playing good absolutely maxi this might be a stupid question okay strap yourself in i'm gonna ask it anyway i'm assuming that the club must know a lot of your movements there must be just you know total conversation and clarity between what you're doing in life and the club's aware of that do you have to go to them and say i'm thinking about trying to start a family or do you can you just say like hey good news guys we're having once i want to turn around can we watch watch? Because that would be weird.

No, no. I didn't tell them. I do wonder that question myself because with the growing of women's sport, especially AFLW, I feel like that might be a conversation that sometimes would have to happen in that landscape, obviously with the maternally leave. You don't have to say, hey hey guys, can I have a kid? No. It's not a concentration camp.

It's a football club. You know what I just thought? No question stupid. Not knowing what impact it could have. Totally. Because it's such a disruption to routine. Especially them paying you like X amount of money to complete a contract and then you just don't know

what's going to happen during that time anyway. There's a lot of support. They go straight to rather than what you can't do, it's you do whatever you want to do and then we'll support you either way. Yeah, that's amazing. So then in terms of announcing your pregnancy, what was the hierarchy, the list of people that you went through? Well, we've just done it all again.

So it's quite an exciting little. We haven't done the socials yet. So we're getting there before the socials. Yeah, I'll try and beat this podcast, mate. You better. Too late. We're live. As soon as we step outside.

Get PR on the phone. Will you do like a little shoot perhaps? I don't, I'm not big on the socials and I'm certainly not big on the same socials that a lot of other people do. I might do like a little subtle one, but everyone who needs to know, knows. So well done guys, you're in the need to know. Yes. That's all I've ever wanted. I'm the inner circle.

Yeah, but certainly the first time, as you guys can probably remember, it's an amazing moment when you finally find out you're pregnant. There's obviously, I can't believe how many different hoops there are to work out you could finally tell someone. Like there's the first pregnancy test where only you and your wife really know. Then there's the first scan where only you and your wife and maybe you can tell one extra. Then there's until you get to, I think it's like 18 weeks

or 20 weeks even. No, 12 weeks now. 12 weeks is like tell your family and then 20 is tell the world. Because that's kind of not in the clear, but it's a good place to be if you're all good at 18 weeks. And as a bloke, you don't want to tell people that your wife hasn't already told. I remember doing that pissed one night.

Oh, when you have a few drinks. Hey, Jimmy! I'm having a kid. But in terms of football club, we have this, it's called a weekly wrap every Friday afternoon. We all- Freestyle battle. Some tall blokes wrapping down the MCG.

We have the whole football club get in the room and we do like a presentation about how good the week was, compliment this guy, compliment this guy. Like a real good feel good to go on a Friday. And there's always been like a baby, like if there's someone's having a baby, there's a baby news like section. Yeah, that's pretty cool.

The baby news and they do like a spinning baby and then put someone's head on the baby of whose baby it is. And I've always wanted to announce that way. So the second child, I've done that. Oh, cool. That's pretty clever, right? So the whole – that's an easier way to tell. What if there's more than one person having a baby?

Yeah, then the next page maybe. Oh, there's another one. That's pretty cool. When you had George, he's in Jess's tummy at this point, did you do the math and think, oh, that's pretty close to the grand final? Yeah, so we were awfully close. Oh, sorry, awful is a bad way to describe that. Amazingly close.

No, so it was sort of our second or third time of trying. So the dates don't really matter at that point. Although the first two times of trying, we weren't really sure on how to try. So it really was our first time of trying properly. We nailed it. Using bad words there, nailed it's a bad word as well. Getting the inside scoop on your sex life here.

But then obviously you do the maths and you go, well, we weren't expected to make a grand final in 2021 as well, but you do the maths and go, okay, sort of around those first weeks of October, if COVID comes around, that could push it back a tiny bit as well. And then it works out that we're actually in Perth for the grand final.

So we're away for five weeks. And Jess, at this point, is not with you. Yeah, as you can imagine, the WA government was pretty strong on who can get over the border. And in your third trimester you can't travel. You can't travel anywhere. And she was at 30 to 35, I think, I missed out on. So was there a conversation of, let's say,

if it happens the day before the grand final, like what do you do? There was. We chatted. I had a pretty good reply, I think. Go on. Test it with us. We'll be the judge of that. I've never played in a grand final.

And I've been- And I've said. I've been playing footy since I was 14. I've never been to that pub. Just one time. I've been playing footy since I was 14. That's what what 17 years of trying to

get to a grand final Jess and I made George in five minutes so like if you're way up five minutes

versus 17 years of genuine good length of time yeah I'll put a fair bit more effort

into this but no look if it honestly was a bad we did have someone so Nathan

Jones is our club legend, 300 games, multiple best and fairies. He was just on the fringe, unfortunately, of the grand final. So he was the first emergency. And he was having his third and fourth child. He was having twins. And once he worked out he wasn't in the grand final team, he had a big discussion and they said, oh, look, which is massive in football world.

We weren't going to play our legend. you're not going to get a game he left perth and went and got the twins birth and got there by the skin of his teeth got there by an hour to go which was three days before the grand final silver lining i guess yeah well i mean magical moment for him if he made the team that would have been an all different yeah different conversation himself because he was 300 games without playing in the grand final for the one club club legend grand final was played was one yeah you then come back to melbourne i managed to get three or four days in perth which was nice jess let me have the mad monday and whatnot over in perth oh the full the full celebration so i got home on the thursday and the game was a Saturday. Hang on.

How many days is that? It was a bender. It was a bender. It was good. You said Monday. Oh, yeah. Monday is still Thursday. It was a good campaign. And then we had sort of two or three weeks.

So she went to the full 40. But there was obviously the chance that you could come in that earlier period. But we went to the full 40. Matthew, I've got a new dad goal. Okay. Okay. What is it? I want to get better at golf.

Okay. So I'm going to stop you right there because there's one small problem. I know for a fact that you can't play golf very well. Well, I want to at least look good. Okay. Whilst doing it. And if your dad wants to look good on the golf course, even if he can't play golf. I feel like all dads want to look good.

Let's be honest here. But if he wants to, you know, if he's not good at it, but he's still looking good, then he could potentially still be at his optimum performance. I sometimes go to golf courses and I don't actually ever hit a ball. You just walk around. I just walk around looking good. Absolutely.

And that's what this is about. So if you want your dad to look good, we are running an awesome competition. Head over to our socials, Two Doting Dads. Drop us a follow and tag your dad for the chance to win a $500 Lululemon gift voucher on us. We are making Father's Day dreams come true. Ash, imagine on Father's Day handing over that gift card to your father. Oh, it'd go down well, wouldn't it?

And imagine being the child that actually allowed your dad to achieve his dad goals level up his game can i just say one thing before we get back into the episode with maxi yes ash when you feel your best you'll perform at your best write that down that is great that is that is quote i've got some advice for you what have you got okay yeah if you believe it then it's not a lie dropping bombs of wisdom but hey if you don't win the father's day gift voucher and maybe you are looking for the perfect present lululemon has gifts that helps dad look and perform at his absolute best this is no surprise but ash and i we are huge fans of the brand,

both on and off the golf course. Now, let's get back into the episode. For the birth, did you have any set role going into that that you had to play? So I had music. Music man. Was mine. Was there a specific song that was to be played?

It was an Adele song. I don't know the actual song now. And the cats in the cradle. It was the Adele song I don't know the actual song and the cats and the it was the Melbourne theme song I was as most of us probably I was the hype man I was the support guy wasn't doing a great job

building well Jess got the best of both worlds she had an 11 hour labour and then they realised their head was never coming out so then the emergency C section guilty yeah so the first four or five hours as you can both imagine there's not much

going on in that 11-hour labor it's a lot of like in between contractions and then yeah you do feel useless yeah but look it's not about us is it also there's a lot of people who listen to the podcast who don't have kids and before i had kids i i thought it was like a really quick process like the water breaks you're in there yep like 15 minutes later hey the kids arrived it's a bit slower i told his wife to push harder okay don't believe him i'm not that stupid that is i've made some mistakes but not that one yeah well i couldn't say that because pushing harder was damaging the process. So I was actually hold on, which is what you wanted to hear. Did you guys obviously like an emergency C-section is not part of the birth plan?

But I'm so glad I got to live that out. That's a cool experience as well. Not for Jess. Horrible experience for Jess. This is Arian. Yeah. Just a great telling story from a dad's point of view as well. So, yeah, labour's happened.

I'm not sure if Jess has given me the green light to give all these sort of details, but, hey, why not? Go for it, mate. The blue bibs come out. That's when you know it's starting to get a bit serious. Obviously, first few pushes didn't work. Head's too big. I thought that was the obstetrician's role in the first place,

to let us know the head was going to be too big, but obviously not. Sorry, he's too long did i not say that apology i should be i actually we're friends with our obstetrician so he's a very i'll clear that up he's and then it all started happening like we're 10 hours of not much into like now 10 minutes of everyone running around the room. I just said, I'll put these on. So I'll put them on the scrubs.

Were you blue or purple? Didn't have shoes that fit, funny enough. Back on the foot size. Do you remember if you were blue? You were blue. Blue. And everyone's running into it. And then I'm not allowed in the theatre,

obviously while it's all happening. Because of COVID or? I don't know. I'm presuming. You're in it. So there's the theatre, you're in it. So there's the theater, you're in that separate room. I was even in like a little waiting room outside of that.

Like I was in the corridor. So I'm just sitting in a waiting room knowing something big's happening in there, which is an interesting experience. And no one's in the way, no one's in the corridor. Everyone's in the room. Was it at night time? It was night time by then. We checked in at AM and night time by then. checked in at a.m and night time by then

yep so then how do they how do they announce to you eventually just the door opens would you like to come in max i'm like sure like i come in they called you in afterwards afterwards so the baby was the baby actually no yeah you're right yeah the baby was on its way out yeah and they call you in you're up near the water's head. They drop the curtain. Yeah. Put her back up. The midwife goes, what song would you like? And I'm like, well, this is my moment.

And I still asked Jess. I said, Jess, which one do you like? But I knew which one. So that was bad by me. I should have just gone straight to the song. So the song was on. And then the midwife was great. She's like, give us your phone so I can take photos. Yeah the photo the photos are gruesome i'm not sure if you got photos

yeah i've got both of mine were c-sections got photos from both yeah they're great to look back on do you go back and have a well they're a great party trick for those that want to like yeah you can really like or you're like i I've got photos. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. Oh! And then, yeah, so then that all happened. And then I find the best bit is from now. So the baby's out. We didn't know what sex. And it took a while. Like the way the obstetrician was holding the baby,

it's like covering. Everything. Covering the good parts for a bit there. And then it was just legs open. It's like, okay, yeah, yeah, there's no confusing that. That's definitely a boy. And then the cutting of the cord, which is one of the great myths i didn't do it please tell me how yours the cord has been cut and i go over to a part 15 meters away from jess so obviously not still

attached and cut another bit of an already cut cord like i get there's a novelty but i'm i'm bigger than that i don't know i don't need to do it. Let's trick this guy. Do they offer it to you? Yeah, they say we'd like to cut the cord. I'm like, oh, yeah, cool. How cool is this? And then we go, obviously, way too far away from my wife. I'm not sure how long the cord is. They said a cord, not her cord.

It's like anyone's cord. Someone else's umbilical. So it's already been cut and then I cut an extra bit of a cut bit. Yeah, they probably don't want to give the non-professional a really important job to cut the cord. Can you imagine how many have got botched. They let you. To me, it wasn't a C-section for Laura, my wife, with Marley, who's my first.

And the obstetrician said, you know, a bit of chaos because there's everything going on. And I got handed the scissors and they said, would you like to cut? And I didn't really want to go down that end. I preferred to start with Laura holding her hand. And I first, I said, no, thank you. And then he was like, no, come. And first I said, no, thank you. And then he was like, no, come on. And I said, no, thank you. Go on, do it.

Put a bit of pressure on, don't they? Laura was like, just do it. And so then I'm cutting this umbilical cord, which kind of is similar to calamari, I guess. Quite well done, calamari. Tough to cut. I didn't do it. I would have fainted.

Didn't enjoy it. Guess I'm glad I had a taste of cutting, not the calamari. And now you're a surgeon. Yeah. Like I'm looking back at the experience of me over there in the corner by myself cutting the cord, getting a photo. I'm like, oh, did that really need to be done? What happens from then is like there's a little bit of family time,

which is great, but then Jess is extremely unwell. So I've taken the baby and i'm in a room by myself a nurse initially comes in with me and says here's the baby put him on the skin no worries the nurse then leaves the room the midwife because she needs to go back into jess yeah and i'm in a room with george a newborn by myself with no nurses for a good half an hour and i've not read the baby books yeah no one reads one's prepared for that today. Obviously, not much can go wrong because they've trusted me with holding the baby for half an hour.

But that's a pretty daunting half an hour. And I got my phone out and thinking I've got to text someone to let them know. But I couldn't say, you know, mum and bub are well. That's always the sign. I couldn't confidently say mum was well. I hadn't seen her. Hadn't seen her yet, yeah.

So I text my mum and said, born so-and-so. Baba Well. That's always the song. I couldn't confidently say mum was well. I hadn't seen her. Hadn't seen her yet, yeah. So I text my mum and said, born so-and-so. Don't tell anyone because Jess is still in theatre. So I told my parents. I couldn't tell Jess's parents. Were you worried about Jess or were they kind of saying she's going to be okay? Was there reassurance? She's going to be okay.

Yeah. But yeah, it's still slightly worrying. Yeah, it's true. It's a pretty big... You don't imagine that moment solo. I've had a keyhole ACL. you don't imagine that moment solo i've had a keyhole acl i don't think that compares to did a baby come out of it then probably not i like i had a similar thing so like i've given me oscar and gone here you go put me in a room and i like thankfully i had my father-in-law my mother-in-law there but even for me at that moment when April's, my wife, is still in surgery,

I don't know what's happening, it felt like forever. And I've got this, all of a sudden I've got the responsibility of another life just like that. And it's all on me really. Preparation. I'm feeling, I'm picking up what you're putting down for sure. Yeah, I'll just, and I know when I tell that story in front of Jess, it's like, oh, geez, sorry to hear.

You had to spend half an hour with George. Let me get the violin out, man. But I feel like on a dad podcast, I feel like a lot of people would agree that that is a very, and then the whole first night, because Jess is obviously out of it for the whole first night, in and out of sleep. You're almost hands-on for the first night. I feel like the first night is the most daunting night for both parents.

Absolutely. So to be the one that's hands-on the most, I was on a fold-out bed, which was hilarious, as you can imagine with my height. Could have been on two fold-outs. I have to clarify, you're not actually 12 foot. People are Googling, they're like, Max going 12 foot?

He's not 12 foot. Close. But still very tall, 6'10". 6'10", yeah. Nine and a half. Not ideal. Yeah, not still very tall. Six foot 10-ish. Six foot 10-ish, yeah. Nine and a half. Not ideal. Yeah, not ideal for hospital beds, especially fold outs. So that whole first experience was pretty cool.

In that first half hour, you're like, am I holding it right? You forget everything that you sort of read or prepped yourself on and you go, okay, I did know how to swaddle, but all of a sudden now there's an actual human life baby in me and it's moving. I don did know how to swaddle, but all of a sudden now there's an actual human life baby in me and it's moving. I don't know how to swaddle. And then nappies and that first poo is interesting. Yeah.

It's like charcoal. Yeah. Coming out. You don't think that's healthy? No. It's a good sign though, is it? It is a good sign, yeah. Good sign.

If they come out screaming. It's one of the checklists. Clears out all of the, I'm not a doctor. We've been over this. You know more than me. I seem to know more. It's one of the checklists. Clears out all of the, I'm not a doctor. We've been over this. You know more than me. I seem to know more than you. It's one of the big checklists to move on to the next day. Yeah, the recovery for Jess after that,

obviously they can't drive for so long. Was it off-seat? It was just after. So you got really lucky that you weren't, you probably weren't off at training over that time. She actually did really well. She recovered really well. She's actually a physio who specializes in maternity.

So she knew everything that was happening to her body at all points. It's always handy. Always handy. How did you guys find those first few months? What were some of the things that you found really easy and what were the things that you struggled with? We were in COVID. So the family was certainly something we struggled with.

No family in the hospital. We were there for three days and then two days at a hotel for we struggled with no family in the hospital we're there for three days and then no two days in a hotel for two days and no family there and then no family once we got back home still the height of COVID for us we'll very luckily we're located in the Mornington Peninsula which is an hour south from here coastline beautiful part of the world and that's where we'd been living for a little bit. So we're in a great place to go for walks and experience the outdoors. It makes a big difference, doesn't it? Yeah. Everyone, it sort of made us all happy in a way,

being surrounded by nature and stuff like that. But yeah, so she recovered really well. So I don't have any real bad stories about that sort of two or three weeks. Sleeping, how was that initially? Because that can be a huge shock to the system you two might hate me post this but we've almost had a seven till seven sleeper from the day dot get out max don't want to hear it if i could overpower you i would obviously early on he's waking up for feeds but yeah we haven't had a bad sleep that's so great

well look forward to the next one. Yeah, I'm assuming that's what's happening. We just tell you there's always a good one and a tricky one. Okay. We're not going to say bad. Yeah, I was like, I'll choose my words very carefully because Marley was good. Lola, my gosh, one of the hardest moments of my entire life.

She just slept no more than 30 minutes. So just prepare yourself for that. Lower your expectations of what sleep's going to be like for number two. Well, we were, yeah, like the other day, he's almost two. And we still do the baby monitor at the moment just because he's too far away from our room. It must be nice. Sorry.

He's down four levels. In the bunker. No wonder you can't hear him. And he made a noise the other night we're like what what is that like it was so foreign to us he must be dying like he's made a noise in the middle of the night yeah so we're very lucky in that space he's also been a very good eater which has been good i know eating can be an issue especially bottles early on but no he's been a very good eater so we've we've sort of lucked out in a way with this with this kid are there any similarities in how you captain the footy side versus how you dad george a little bit go on the interesting bit i'm and i'm interested you've probably interviewed a lot of people that have older kids yes so we're

trying to shape our young kids as much as we can and then at some point they're allowed to shape themselves yeah and i'd love to know that transformation because at the moment i'm just trying to teach all the values in every shape and i know if i do one thing wrong now this kid could end up being something at 18 that at two i don't know maybe maybe not a two, but like that's the mindset. Very early years is there. Yeah, we've got four-year-olds. So when George gets to sort of three and four,

that's when you'll be like instill those values you're really into and he can talk back to you and all that sort of stuff. But then at some point, like at a football club, like I was saying at the start, you want them to be themselves. Yeah. That's going to be a cool transformation. I'm guessing that's 10 years away, but there is similarities. To the footy boys,

are you like, come here, that's one minute warning. Last chance, have a sip of water right now, finish it all. We actually, we got an older group of players.

So we've got 10 to 15 kids. Wow. Which is a lot in and around our football club. You guys must be like, asking for a full-time crèche now. Yeah, well,

there is a crèche at the game. You just lock them in the middle of the MCG on the grass and be like they can't do any damage there so there's lots of kids they're all friends they all know each other well

that's so cool I mean we went through a hub I didn't have a child in the hub but we went through in 2020 it was four months in Queensland

yeah we had 10 to 15 kids there wow they were having the time of their life yeah seeing people every day. It was probably great for their social skills.

I'm not sure what you guys were like before you had kids, but I'm like- I can't remember. Yeah. Angels. Yeah. Very well done. I think I went to school. He's six.

Partied every night. Yeah. But I was like, that guy was like, yeah, cool. I'd high five a kid, maybe play a card. I'm not picking him up or helping you feed him or- Yeah. Like when you're saying, oh, look at this cute kid of mine. I'm like, oh, yeah, cool. I'd high five a kid, maybe play a card. I'm not picking him up or helping you feed him. Like when you're saying, oh, look at this cute kid of mine. I'm like, oh, yeah, cool. But now I'm like the guy like, how are you not finding my son cute right now?

What he's doing right now? He's playing with his cars by himself. That is cute. Why aren't you finding that cute? Well, look, he's pretending. He's imagining. How do you not say, I get what you mean. And I also think my kids are cutest, which I'm sure we all do.

George is very adorable. Have you said that to all 18 guests though? Yes. I'm yet to tell a guest that their child is unattractive. Look, you're going to be the first guest, but your child is ugly. Fix it. Thanks for coming on the podcast. Don't think it'll go down that well.

We've always good sleeping and good eating. He has got a trait that we struggle with a lot and he's incredibly introverted. I'm not sure who he gets that from because I feel like we're both on the extroverted side. But he struggles at daycare, struggles at separation, struggles with other kids, struggles with leaving the house, struggles when new people come to the house. So there's a lot of pressure there.

But apart from that, yeah, we feel like we've – It breaks you hard a little bit too doesn't it when you they don't really know any different and i mean my eldest is kind of like that my youngest is the complete opposite i see him struggling in moments that i know for me i would have never struggled in like now he can't shut me up but him he'll be like really in his shell so yeah it's sometimes it's tough to like watch it they change as well yeah lola who's my youngest hated me for the first you know year and a half of her life like did not i would want to give her a cuddle and just always wanted mom nobody else didn't want to interact with people who were new in the household like marley who's my eldest did like marley would just run to anyone yeah and i kind of thought to myself as well like i guess she's just going to

be a bit more of a shy child yeah and then she hit two and she just like almost within a week just changed and just with this personality just came out of her yeah we do feel like the daycare part will help but the first hour of daycare dropping him off it's tough yeah just back on the footy club like are they really flexible if you need to step away or if jess is sick and kids sick because it happens going to get this and they're like you're like look i can't come to train as they call in sick do they ask you for a doctor's note or are they like look you do you no flexible flexible and bring a kid to work day if it's an issue we got no single fathers there currently but we have in the past and it's certainly been there's been kids in and around the football club

and wow to be fair it's one of the better jobs to be a dad a lot of time off we get 12 weeks a year off as well at the end of the season that's great and we have obviously a good steady cash flow so it's a great job to be a dad that's's probably why people do have kids while they've been a footballer. Max, I've got to ask you, for any parents, specifically dads who are listening, what would be your one bit of advice for how they can make life easier for their partners? So this could come across as selfish, but I feel like in the long run, if you've got a very good relationship with your family it makes sense and it stems from how I spoke about the start about being the best version of yourself if I come home from a bad day of training and I walk straight into the house

I'm potentially going to get into screen time I'm not going to give George my best version of me and then it's it's just not going to be a great night. So I got into a routine and still do it where I have a sort of 15-minute my own time post-training. And when I live down the coast, which has just changed, I've just moved back up, I'd go in the ocean. So I'd drive home, it'd be a 15-minute drive home, and right at the end, we live near the beach, I'd jump in the ocean and sit there and do a bit of mindfulness

in the ocean for 10 minutes. And then I'd come home and bang, my phone's not even anywhere near me. I'm the best version of Max. George is loving me. Jess is getting some time away from George. And I felt like that's something, it's selfish that I, Jess would also love to go to the beach, I'm sure,

and dip into the water. But I felt like that was the best version of me coming out. And I still do it now. I'm not near the beach. I've got a sauna at home. Again, must be nice, but I've got a sauna at home and that's something I can do just a little bit of mindfulness different times

doesn't have to be a full big activity I can literally just put the headphones in and listen to a mindfulness app and do it that way who's taught you this where'd this come from I'm always battling to be present I feel like present max is the best version of max and I feel like that's the same of every single person in the world so I know that being present going to – you can see it when you're not present with your kids. They're sitting playing in the cars next to you and you're on your phone or you're watching sport on TV. Sounds exactly like me. Yeah.

And you go to sleep that night and go, I didn't get great George time today, did I? Yeah, and I catch myself doing it too where I'm like, look, I've been on my phone all day with emails, well, Oscar's at kindy or maybe he's at kindy and now they're home and I'm still doing the same thing. So I have caught myself a lot. And if you mix that with I've been out till five for the whole day, so I've got a, like I said, he's a great sleeper,

so I've got a two-hour window before he's asleep. Like why not make it an hour and 40 window and have 20 minutes to make that the best hour and 40 rather than a mediocre two hours? Yeah. And Jess is fully supportive of that. She also gets time to do her thing as well and make sure she's a physio so she loves pilates so she goes and does pilates a lot and that's her mindfulness and that works for us two kids might be a different story i might not be allowed to do that i might yeah i'll be

15 minutes turns into seven as long as still it's still something. Yeah, for sure. I feel like I might be able to get something out of that. Even when they're both asleep, potentially using that period to clear your mind. But it's something that works. It certainly works for me. Since having kids, do you find that you're more aware of your health, both mental, physical?

You certainly notice not being present. Yeah. A lot more. I feel like without a kid i could have sat and watched a whole ashes cricket day on the couch and not even yeah where if you watched four overs and going oh no i haven't spoken to george you sort of pick up on it real quickly we're both well aware of how we are emotionally one of the big debates about having a child was we both love our lives a lot and I feel like that is a big debate when having a child.

Do you want to start a family now or do you want to continue this love of life that you're having? Do you want to travel? Do you want to do all the things you have? And we were why not do both type situation. We should be able to do both. Let's see if we can manage life. Just slightly differently.

Just slightly differently. Instead of when we went to Europe, instead of going out and Milan at 9pm, we're having dinner at 4.30 when everyone else is having breakfast. That sounds amazing. Yeah, so we're both fully aware of how we are emotionally and Jess is very good with that. She tells me to my face when she needs some time or something like that. Good communication.

Good communication. And your relationship with Lululemon. You've been with them for three years now. Correct me if I'm wrong. How many of the boys hit you up for free gear? Well, I mean, this is one of the big things of Lululemon is they're such a great brand that how many people actually knew they do great male clothing?

Like it's actually unbelievable. I know, I'm head to toe. Yeah, I'm head to toe. I'm head to toe i'm head to toe yeah if i may give you a compliment you look delicious thank you thank you you really are real strength but never really responded to a partnership again a lot of cool little partnerships being in the position i'm in i've never really responded to a partnership like lululemon also goes, it goes without saying, though, that you're an incredible athlete and I think from talking with you, an incredible dad. So it's no surprise that you're one of their ambassadors. Well, yeah.

And that was me. That was genuine. Knee deep in the competition. I'm getting further and further. Don't let him get any deeper, please. I mean, it's not all Rosie being a dad, as we all know. There is a lot of times I'm not present. So that's why I do that stuff to make sure I am.

But yeah, it has been a wonderful journey. Obviously, two is going to rock my world, blah, blah, blah, the sounds of things. And then when you're outnumbered, if you go down the three path. Not me, man. I've had the snip. You're two and done. I want to be two and done, but the fact there's no girl yet

makes me feel like Jess is going to push for a third. We're opposite. I'm two girls looking at a third in the hope that maybe I'll get a boy. There's apparently a diet you can go on that puts you in the boy category. You've got to penetrate deeper. I have a small penis. Oh, wow. You give the sides a good scrape.

We've actually got a strong, strong, strong formula of during the season if you have sex, you can see a girl. And if you have sex in the off season, you have a boy. Based on what reason? I'm guessing testosterone levels maybe. It's not going to apply for you. You could go into a strenuous training program. Yeah, okay.

No, but then that means girl. So go less training. Getuous training program. Yeah, okay. No, but then that means girl. So, go less training. Get fat like me. Okay. Yeah, I just need to spend more weekends with her. Yes. Less training, chance of boy. It's a real double-edged sword.

I'm thankful. I've got one of each. The boy's crazy, like exactly like I was as a child and is now. Picks up on everything I do, which is both great and annoying. And then I've got a little girl who has completely changed me. I've softened up, believe it or not. And yeah, like it's a totally different experience. I think like you definitely parent them differently.

Macy's can do no wrong, but Oscar can do everything wrong. Well, I mean, I'll keep that in mind when- When you go for the third. You never know. You might have to go down the line. You might just be boy, boy, boy. Well, I'm one of three boys so yeah okay right you're getting my mom's one of four my mom's so she's not a boy but she's got three brothers and my dad's one of four boys so there's a lot of boys hey maxi i want to say thank you so much for talking with us today

it's been an absolute delight thank you for for having me in. Totally. I picked up the mindfulness thing for me from you is- Be wary bringing it up the first time with your partner. Yeah. She'd be like, where have you been for 15 minutes? It's like, well, Max Gorn told me I've got to float around in the ocean. Don't take your surfboard. That's where it starts to be a little bit- She goes out of the garage and she counts the surfboards

to make sure they're still all there. But yeah, thank you so much for jumping, chatting with us. Thank you to Lululemon for allowing this to happen,

of course. And also good luck for the rest of the season. It's a pointy end. Yeah. How many weeks now are we? We have five to go. We have a game on Sunday.

Obviously not sure when you're going to get this all together. So that could be outdated, but we're talking probably mid-August. Oh well then finals are coming.

You're like anyway I'm looking forward to the grand final. Hopefully we've won the last three games that we just skipped over. Where are you situated? We're fourth.

You're fourth. It's still not a bad place. Yeah so top four at the double chance and we're sitting in fourth. We're two games clear of fifth at the moment so it'll be interesting to see how this ages.

Before we go though, one last mention that if you have enjoyed this podcast or any of the episodes that we put out, we would absolutely love it. And if you'll give us a review, five stars. Maxi, if you were to review us, how many stars would you give? Three and a half. Beautiful. Love the honesty.

It's all of your cringy compliments, man. No, I'll be going home and putting in. How do you do it? Ideally, Apple Podcasts. Apple Podcasts. You can give just five stars. You can also, like the creme de la creme review would be five stars. You can pass me your phone and I can do it for you.

Just to make sure. And just a few comments. And a comment. Just a few comments. Could be anything. Loved episode 19. Yes. Go straight to it. That would be the dream and if there's any other doting dads or doting mums that you would love for us to speak

to on the podcast please make those suggestions at two doting dads on instagram yep and on that note max it's been a pleasure thank you so much cheers