Undetermined - 2 1/2 Blocks | 3

Episode Date: December 13, 2022

Ten days after Jessica’s disappearance, her sisters travel to New Orleans where they find Jessica’s body roughly 2 1/2 blocks from her Lakeview home. The Coroner’s office rules Jessica's cause and manner of death as Undetermined, but her autopsy report reveals injuries sustained prior to her death. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Enjoy the classic taste of the holidays at Tim's with the new non-alcoholic Bailey's flavored holiday menu whether you're hanging holiday lights or driving up to your folks You can enjoy your Tim's and Bailey's anytime anywhere at participating restaurants in Canada Almost every kid here has a absolute horror story. I don't even know how to explain it Hidden in the redwoods of the Pacific Northwest, Hupa Valley grapples with a crisis, a series of unsolved disappearances spanning decades. And we've been hearing about a lot of them.

I've been following your new season about Ashley Lawrence Brown. I'm sure you may have been contacted regarding the name of Alia Heavy Runner. Many of the missing and murdered are indigenous persons, and we wondered what factors make this tribal land a place where people just vanish So we started looking into it People seem to be very hesitant to come forward because they're scared for their own safety

You don't know she was trafficked. You don't know she is murdered. What's even more crazy is that person who ever did it is probably someone we all know here. From Tenderfoot TV, I'm Sleesi Stanton, and this is the Vanishing Point, an up and vanish series. Available now, listen for free on Apple Podcasts. Hey listeners, Jessica here. Be sure to check out new episodes of Undetermined every Tuesday for free wherever you get your podcast. For early and ad-free listening, check out Tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts.

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed and participating in the show and do not represent those of Tenderfoot TV and resonate recordings. All individuals described or mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found guilty in a court of law. This podcast contains subject matter such as violence and graphic descriptions, which may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. I feel like if somebody has disappeared

and they don't have a vehicle, they don't have a cell phone to communicate, they don't have any means of paying for anything. At that point, you have to treat it like it's a missing child. That means going door to door, going and looking under bushes and cars. So don't make excuses to me about manpower because that just means you don't want to.

That's what I feel all of this boils down to is they just don't want to. But when they get a call that there's a body found to and a half, everybody. Everybody shows up. People in suits don't even talk to you. People in uniforms coming up and asking questions. And the one detective that wasn't there an hour and a half before is all of a sudden there and hey man how are you guys doing? We just did your job and we found our relative. How are you doing? You know, all of a sudden you have more than enough people to come out.

That's kind of embarrassing. I'm going to go to the next one. I was probably about where you see those, I lose those like concrete things over there. When I heard her yelling from over here and the name of the call, I mean, I rushed back, but there was a stop train over here, so it had to hop over and walk and just kind of look down. That goes pretty deep. It's way down there. So it's crazy. And you guys see about where she lived just down the road, not very far at all. So it was extremely close.

Yeah. It gives me chills being back here. This is... On Thursday, August 22, 2019, about a week after Jessica's disappearance, sisters Audrey and Amanda, along with their cousin Doug, made the long trek from Mississippi to New Orleans. First stop, in OPD District 3.

They wanted to speak to Detective Lund, but when they arrive, he's not there. So they make the best of their time and start looking around Jessica's Lakeview neighborhood, the last place she was seen. Scouring a map of the area, they decide to look just on the outskirts of the residential part of the neighborhood.

Something drew them to an overgrown area just past an interstate overpass. There's a pumping station and a hillside that leads up to some train tracks dividing Lakeview and it's adjacent neighborhood. I'm a lead-award, kind of walk you guys over there. It was little ways down there. So me Doug and Amanda got here by the pumping station number seven

and was scouting out places to look at. Amanda stayed in the car to talk to Maria, to tell her what was going on, what our next plan was, and me and Doug got out the car, and we went over the railroad tracks. We crossed the train, and he told me, go look over that way by the woods, and that's what I did. I went over there and I was walking alongside of the train and I seen like a white tarp down. There's like a little hill with rocks on it and I seen a white tarp and I thought, oh my God,

I hope my sister's not underneath there. So I started to walk down there, but I slid all the way down and my foot hit the tarp. And I just remember thinking, please don't let my sister be underneath there. And I pulled up the tarp, and she wasn't there, and I was so relieved. Though Audrey felt a sense of relief in this moment, her search continued. She had a strong feeling about this area and felt something calling to her, urging her to keep looking. And then literally maybe

five, ten feet I just stayed down there and I jumped on a railroad tie and then I turned around and then as clear as day I heard a voice that said no look again and I looked again and that's whatever. So I seen her legs, I want to see her back and I started screaming. No one heard me. There was just something that was screaming. I walked back up the hill, and then I walked back down, and I looked again because I thought maybe that's not what I'm seeing. And I felt the grant just sort of screaming. And then I called my sister on the phone,

and I said, I found Jessica. Your business has grown fast, from opening your first location to planning an expansion in no time, and with your business platinum card from American Express, you can access spending power and payment flexibility to fuel your growth. Sarah, the contractor is here with the plans. American Express, don't do business without it. Terms and conditions apply visit mx.ca slash business platinum. So you think you know sports? Points vet is the sportsbook for you, because we've got the features for true competitors.

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Like I knew it was her. And it was her knee that was black. And she had black shorts. She had a black shirt. Her feet were covered by some bushes. And then like her head was kind of covered by some bushes too, but I could see her. She was just laying there like someone set her down or something like a piece of trash. She was only two and I fought for her house.

She was a person. And no matter what she was into or anything, she didn't deserve to die like that. We were all kind of shocked. You know, we were all kind of shocked, you know, we were all kind of scared, obviously reality kind of kicks in. This is Jessica's cousin Doug Schmidt, who accompanied Audrey and Amanda in their search for Jessica. Doug works in the funeral home industry and sees the deceased on a daily basis.

Still, the scene was jarring to him. She wasn't facing us. She was facing another direction. And she was kind of more or less sitting in a fetal position. And the surrounding drive didn't really seem really natural as far as, okay, well, I don't know what's going on. I'm not a police officer, not a detective, but I told him, I said, look, if this is her or if it's not, this is still a dead body and we need to get away from this right now and call the police.

And they did just that. And as they waited, Amanda called Jessica's friend Maria to let her know what had happened. She was like, we found a body police were on the way. Like, just that quick, so fast. We're gonna look around, we found her. And I remember like just howling like a banshee and like walking around my living room in circles and being like, oh my god, I'm so sorry,

just like I knew it was her. Back at the scene, it wasn't long before the area was flooded with emergency personnel and police, including Detective Lone. When they showed up, it was a few detectives, and we walked them to where we found her. And of course, they do and they're thinking, they're asking questions about what's the story here and we kind of filled them in a little bit about what we knew up to that

point so they looked she was missing. We came down because it had been 10 days and we were worried about our relative and went over everything with them and of course they took pictures, corners, off his showed up and removed her and all. And I remember my cousin, Mandy, really wanted to see because at the point, you couldn't really see anything and the level of decompt, 10 days, we're using any heat in that area. I mean, it kind of was rapid.

We asked them, said, look, these are her sisters. Me and you here wants to see her, because she wants to know if this is her or not, because they had this gut feeling that, like, no, that's my sister. Now, I remember them saying, the level of decombs bad, soft tissues are removed. You don't want to see. The family was certain it was Jessica, but sadly, due to the level of decomposition from the New Orleans heat, they wouldn't get a positive identification that day.

In fact, they didn't feel like they got much of anything out of the NOPD that day. According to Doug, the scene was cleared within an hour. Looking back, I kind of expect a little bit more. They interviewed us, of course. They took some pictures of the immediate area, and then that was it. They didn't really expand past just that one little section.

And that always seemed kind of odd to me. It really did. Really, really odd. It didn't seem like it wasn't as big a deal as it should have been to them. This was a missing person's case that was reported missing. This wasn't like, oh, she was missing and no one reported. It's like, no, they knew. They knew our level of interest, our level of involvement. They knew it. The detective that we were going to see that day showed up on the scene and talked to us. You know, of course, we're kind of

looking at them like, I mean, the house is a straight shot from here. This seems awfully close for some even some 10 days and three amateurs who don't even live in the area, have never been to this area, can put two and two together and just start looking around. Even looking back, it just still feels odd to me because I expected more. I expect a lot more. And it just never happened. It just never happened.

When the NOPD wrapped up at the scene, what was left was a police report, a fairly brief one at that. The incident is listed as an unclassified death and specifically states that is not a result of a hate crime or domestic violence. The narrative says in part. At approximately 12.36 pm, police officer Everett Risko was dispatched to the intersection of Orleans Avenue and Kennellwurst Street to investigate a report of a miscellaneous

incident, whereas the reporting person, Amanda Barnes, stated while searching for her sister, who was reported missing, she located the deceased body of an unknown white female. Officers reported her as wearing a gray shirt and blue shorts, and also noted that she was in an advanced stage of decomposition. And there you have it. In essence, that's the police report. As Doug Audrian Amanda drove away from the scene that afternoon, they were at a loss.

The only thing they knew for sure in that moment was that Jessica was no longer missing. She was gone forever. You know, there was a lot of emotions going on, there was a lot of anger, there was a lot of confusion, a lot of sadness, and it just felt like it was just like a roller coaster. I know we all had hoped that she was still alive somewhere, and you kind of hang on to that, and then you start hoping that maybe this wasn't her. Because me not being near as close to Jessica as my two cousins were, I felt the degree of sadness,

because I mean, I can't, I can't even imagine. I couldn't, you know, I have three sisters of my own and even trying to look at it from their perspective just makes me just want to shut down. Eventually reality would set in, but it would take some time. It wasn't until nearly three months later in November of 2018 that the body would officially be matched to Jessica through DNA.

According to the family, the delay was a result of the NOPD misplacing the original DNA sample submitted by Jessica's mother. Nonetheless, they got their answer, a rather unwanted one, and there would be more to follow. Two months later, January of 2020, would turn out to be a quite eventful month for the case. The corner listed both the cause and manner of death as undetermined. After our coroner's examination, they typically include the cause and manner of death. Manor of death can be natural, accidental, suicide, homicide, or, if it's unknown but is not considered natural causes, they can classify it as undetermined.

In Jessica's case, her injuries, which will get to in a minute, did not indicate exactly how she died. Therefore, they also ruled her cause of death as undetermined. This obviously didn't sit well with the family. It seemed they were even further from closure than they thought. Everything was up in the air. To make matters worse, that same day, Audrey and Amanda learned that they wouldn't even be able to lay their sister to rest. Her remains were released

to her husband, Justin. This came as a surprise to them, and they were crushed. And as if that wasn't enough bad news for one month, the most shocking revelation would come the last day of the month, January 31, 2020, when the coroner released the autopsy report to the family. They hoped it would provide some answers. Instead, it would only raise more questions. We were given access to the report by Jessica's family. Here's what it says. Jessica's time of death was listed as August 22nd, 2019, 105 pm, which is when she was found and officially pronounced deceased at the scene.

The autopsy indicates several injuries to Jessica's body, including a broken nose and jaw. She also sustained post-mortem injuries, meaning they happened after she was deceased. Those include a broken rib and C4 vertebrae, which is located in the neck. At the time of her autopsy, Dr. O'Sullivan, a forensic pathologist with the Orleans Parish Corner's office, collected evidence samples from Jessica's body, including two envelopes of fingernail clippings, a heart-charm necklace from her neck, and her clothing. Black tank top, black shorts, pink underwear, and a pair of black shoes, which contradicted what the NOPD reported her wearing, gray shirt and blue shorts.

The doctor also notates a sun and moon tattoo on our lower right abdomen. Following the autopsy, a toxicology screening was conducted by forensic toxicologist Dr. Sherry Cacconco with NMS Labs. Testing shows levels of menthenphetamine, amphetamine, alcohol, and prescription drugs, including buproprian and hydroxyburoprian. The report raises a lot of questions, and I wanted to better understand what everything meant. To do that, I sought out an expert. A woman I hit connected with a few years back,

ironically in New Orleans during Cramcon, an annual true Cram Convention, where she was speaking as a forensic expert. My name is Dr. Kimberly Masnick. I am an assistant professor of criminology and victimology at Indian River State College, as well as the founder and director of the Institute for Cold Case Investigations, which works directly with law enforcement agencies, going through cold cases that are in our local area. While Dr. Masnick hasn't conducted an official investigation

into this case, we asked her to look over the documents we have and share her thoughts. And the Jessica Easterly case, Jessica was found 10 days after she actually went missing. She's in New Orleans. She's in a fairly good state of decomposition from the trunk up. So Jessica's body is removed and she has taken to the examiner's office. And when they receive her, she has received in the bag upside down.

And the process for her very little is actually done because of the level of decomposition. And you have to think it's New Orleans is very much like where I live in Florida. It's extremely hot. It's extremely humid, which is going to make the person their level of decomposition happen much quicker. So she's not in the most pristine condition. She can be in to run all of the tests that would normally be run. They do go ahead and

do toxicology on her, but unfortunately they can't take it. We can't get blood samples. She's been out there for 10 days, so either her blood has dried up or because of the decomposition, the blood has flowed into her body cavity. So therefore, it's compromised. So the one thing that they're really able to do is to send off and have a piece of her liver examined. Again, you have to remember that just because liver has now been out and in the public sun,

the this, that, and everything else for 10 days. So it is also going through changes both chemically and physically. There are many challenges experts face going through changes both chemically and physically. There are many challenges experts face when dealing with a highly decomposed body as was the case here. Dr. Masnick puts it simply, if you don't test for it, you're not going to find it.

But in Jessica's case, they were able to find some things. So there were only about five or six drugs that were tested for, that we know of. Most of them come back to either illicit drugs that she was on potentially for depression or she was being given by somebody for depression or they are items that could have shown up in her liver in her system just simply due to this ethanol is absolutely an alcohol, a drug that shows up in the system due to decompt. When I look at things that are said about Jessica in the report, the reports say she's either a very low-level user of meth because it doesn't say anything about you know major blemishes to her skin, her

teeth are in fair condition. There's nothing that we see when we look at people that are major meth addicts., she says it's important to understand how meth metabolizes in the body. Meth breaks down very quickly based on when you take it and how much you take and how you take it. So it's more than likely that if they're finding meth in her body, that it was very recently taken more than likely that if they're finding methamemotic, that it was very recently taken and it would not have been ingested

because the stomach would have dissolved it that would lower the level very quickly. Meth isn't gonna increase because of decomposition or anything else. It meth is there, then meth is there. We ask Dr. Massneck if there's a potential overdose here. You have to remember, they were not able to run tests as extensively as they would have if it had been

a fresh or an interior passing. You have to realize they used her liver to do most of the test. So the liver itself was also going through changes. So yes, it is very likely that it did go down. But then again, I still have to, I'm speculating and it's based on just my knowledge knowledge of what the average meth addict looks like, one, if she's not a consistent user, and two, even a heavy dose, 10 hours later, only half of it's gonna be in her system.

And then after that, you've got the 10 days until we even pick her up, and then you've got extra time before the autopsy even happens. So there's no way of no way exactly how much meth was in her system at the time of her death. You have to go back and look, there's nothing nobody mentions anything about her. The husband is saying, you know, they were taking a nap. So it's not like they were at a party. There's nothing there that jumps out to me and says that she took a heavy dose of meth at that point in time,

even though there's also nothing that tells me that she didn't. While Jessica had traces of methamphetamine in her system at the time of her toxicology examination, her family doesn't believe she was habitually using meth. It's also unclear what exactly Jessica had prescriptions for, and whether or not the drugs found in her system at the time of her death were prescription. But apart from the drugs, I also wanted to know if there was any way to determine what Jessica's cause of death

could have been based off her injuries. She was found with basically her nose is broken and her jaw is broken. And they do not state so I can only assume or presume that that was either pre-mortem or anti-mortem. They don't ever mention whether or not there's any blood in or around those areas so I can't tell exactly at what point she received those but they do state that her C4 vertebrae, as well as her rib or brulkin, and those are post morta. I am feeling based on what very little

information we have that this is Jessica's at dump site because we have such little information. That's why the coroner up there turns around and gives us a manner and cause of death of being undetermined. As much as I don't like it, undetermined is actually probably the best thing to leave it at at this point in time. Although Dr. Massnick is of the belief that Jessica's body was dumped at the site, implicating some degree of foul play. She says, ultimately, there's just not enough information to know for sure, and adds that

a classification of homicide would be an overreach without definitive evidence on her body to support it. But, before we move on, I want you to know there was something else found on her body that further supports the theory of it being moved, something my partner Todd and I discussed at length. We do know, from a source that was at the scene when her body was discovered who makes their living working with dead bodies. She had liver mortis on the outside of her knee that was the opposite knee of the knee

that was touching the ground. Let's break that down for someone who may not know what post mortum liver mortis is because I had to have you explain it to me. And so let's begin with Jessica's found laying on her side. Right, yeah, for just argument's sake, we're not saying which side she was discovered on. But if she was discovered on her left side, then we would be talking about the right knee. And the liver mortis had said in on the outside of that right knee

which is facing the sky, pointed straight up at the sky, from a layman or detectives understanding of what liver mortisism what it occurs. It's post mortum levity which means it happens after death. So about 20 minutes after you die, the red blood cells start to separate themselves from the plasma because your heart's not beating anymore. And it's not circulating the blood. So it works its way out of vessels and whatnot into tissue and then it pulls and it's falling

because of gravity toward the ground. So they're able to determine how you were positioned at the time you died. And it would mean that you laid there in that position for a minimum probably of two hours, probably closer to six. The way this was described. So what this proves is she died laying on one side, she was found laying on the opposite side. Right. Between this revelation and everything we discussed with Dr. Massnik, there's plenty to process here. And still, something that gnaws at me is just how close her body was to her house. So now, with all of this in mind,

Todd and I decided to go back to the spot where Jessica was found, this time, at night. It's eerie. Visibility is lacking. I'm on edge with every little noise I hear. It's a little unsettling out here at this late at night. It's almost 10 o'clock. It's dark.

It's desolate this time of night. Quite the contrast from the bustling neighborhood we first visited in the daytime. Now, no one is around. And one lonely street light illuminates a small patch of street and grass. Now, in August of 2019, this grassy area was overgrown, very weedy.

It didn't look like it does now. Now, it's pretty manicured. I mean, it could probably use a moe, but it looks like it's been moored recently within a week or so, I'd say. There's a little pull-in area, a little cut out in the curb, so the vehicles can pull into this lot,

and it splits the lot in the middle. So, if it was, this light wasn't here then, it was really dark. You could pull in there, and if it were overgrown, you could pull anything out of your car and just slide it. We find out, after leaving New Orleans,

the light was, in fact, newly installed this year. If they pull in to this, I'm going to say now,'re mentioning this pull in kind of divides this area. So you got half a lot over here. The other half on the other side is not far at all from another house. Now, from where I'm standing now, I can throw a baseball and hit that house. So it's risky.

It's a risky spot, even though it's dark, and it is visually and aesthetically separated from this very nice addition they lived in. It's perplexing how she ends up this close to her house if you're wanting to conceal her. Right. There are many many many places we've seen driving around within minutes of driving a couple of minutes that would seemingly be easier to conceal long-term possibly forever. This is so close. And not only that, you have way more privacy in these other areas.

You're way less likely to be spotted, being parked there or doing something wrong there. I mean, granted, we're talking about, this is kind of creepy, it's dark, it looks different than the other side of the overpass, all that. Yet we are very, very close to houses and people and that's never a great strategy for dumping

a dead body. Yeah, and as we have discussed, the location could have been the opportunity to present it itself to do something quickly and with haste as opposed to planning and thinking of a location that would be better suited to conceal. I'd try to believe that this was anyone's master plan. If any time at all was invested in, what should I do with this woman's body now? Where should I put it?

Then I doubt this was plan A. We didn't stay long, but seeing this place at night did add some perspective. It's not the best place to hide a body by any stretch of the imagination. But at night, it is a very easy place to get away with it, albeit, if only temporarily, which is why Todd believes this was not some thought-out plan, rather a rushed decision made on the fly. So at this point, we have at least some clarity as to how her body got to where it was found, but what about the cause and manner of death? That's something that still seems difficult to draw any conclusions, not to mention who's responsible. Theories were beginning to swirl, especially between those closest to her.

But what I really wanted to know is what Justin thought. After all, he was Jessica's husband, they lived together, he was the last person to see her. lived together, he was the last person to see her. Jessica's family had virtually no contact with Justin during this time, but he was talking. One of the people he was talking to was Jessica's friend, Erica. He may remember from episode one. She attended their wedding, and while she

got to know Justin a little, they certainly weren't close. But shortly after Jessica went missing, Erica received a text from Justin, which would ultimately turn into an extended conversation, spanning from August 15, 2019 to February 26, 2020. Erica sent me screenshots of their text conversation. Metrolinx and cross-links are reminding everyone to be careful, as Eglinton Cross-Town LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert, this trains can pass at any time on the tracks.

Remember to follow all traffic signals. Be careful along our tracks and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. I didn't understand that people go missing this way. It's a very odd thing. You have no idea what it's like to lose a human being on your watch. Gary DeVore was an A-list screenwriter who disappeared without a trace in 1997.

I had the biggest action stars in Hollywood searching for my husband. But nobody really knows what happened. We try to find out on witness Vade de Black, available now wherever you get your podcasts. Let's begin where their conversation started. On August 15th, 2019, one day after Jessica was reported missing and one week before she was found, the text messages will be voiced by actors. Hey, it's Justin. Hey, what happened to Jessica? I just saw the post on Facebook.

She left sometime after 12 p.m. yesterday. I was asleep and I have no idea where she is or if she's okay. At first, I didn't know what to believe. I was like, what is going on? Because I saw the post on Facebook where he said, Jessica, where are you? Grace misses you. And I'm like, what do you mean? That texted him. I was like, where is Jessica? He said, I don't know.

Grace has been throwing up. She's wearing six. And I was hopeful that he had nothing to do with that. You can actually see this in Erica's text. She was there for Justin during this time. Sure, she had her questions about Jessica's disappearance and occasionally she'd throw out an idea of how to maybe find her, but for the most part she was there to empathize. You need to be there for Gracie.

Hang in there and keep in touch. Don't be too hard on yourself. And buy his responses just in seem to appreciate her kindness. I'm gonna try and take a nap. If I hear anything, I'll call you immediately. Thanks for being a good friend. In a way, it seemed like Erica became Justin's sounding board. They texted frequently. Sometimes it was even lighthearted.

But for the most part, it was serious. They both wanted to find out what happened to Jessica. They both wanted to find out what happened to Jessica. On August 29th, Erica asked Justin for an update. Nothing today? Do you remember saying anything or doing anything? Or her saying anything the last day you saw her that would help find her? Justin responds the following day, August 30th, at 226 in the morning, giving the full story of what happened the day Jessica went missing.

I just want to note that at this point, Jessica's body had been found, but neither Erica nor Justin seemed to know that. Here's their exchange. Gone over that day in my mind with police, even my daughter, more than just a few times. The problem with that day is there isn't a lot to it. Justin explained how exhausted he was that day between getting grace ready to go back to school and Jessica coming out of what he called a depressive cycle after a flare-up with her fibromyalgia. He remembered sleeping in that morning and waking up to find

Jessica in the kitchen doing laundry. She asked if I was hungry and I said yes. We talked about grace, school for a while, and she said she was going to put a pizza in the oven. She came back in the room and the pizza was ready. And we ate, watched TV. After we ate, she said that I looked tired and I was abnormally tired because Grace had just gotten out of the hospital. I was getting her uniform for school, school supplies, all kinds of stuff. And I didn't have any help from Jessica because she was feeling like crap and sleeping a lot. So I said, yes I am. And she said that she had to move the clothes to the dryer

and she'd come lay down too. She went in the kitchen with the plate. And I remember coming back in and getting in the bed. That's the last thing I remember before Grace woke me up after getting home from school. That's when this all began. I don't know. There's not a lot to it, but that's what this all began. I don't know.

There's not a lot to it, but that's what happened that morning. This should all sound pretty familiar to you as it's the same narrative he gave to the N.O.P.D. But, there's one minor inconsistency. If you remember from the previous episode, Justin told the first inopiti unit that came to his house for the wellness check, that when he woke up, he went into the kitchen and saw the pizza Jessica made. Later that night, early in the next morning,

he told the second inopiti unit who filed the Missing Persons report that he and Jessica ate pizza rolls together in bed. And now he tells Erika Jessica made a pizza and they ate it in bed together while watching TV, and that after taking their dishes to the kitchen and switching out the laundry, Jessica returned to bed and lay down with him. Of course Erika had no knowledge of this, so as Justin answered whatever questions she had and described the events of that day, Erica took it all at face value.

Her angle at the time was to simply try and figure out what happened to her friend. And ironically, the moment her and Justin's conversation started drifting into theories about what happened. That's when things started to take a turn. Nothing in my mind pointed to the fact that it could have possibly been so until the more he started testing me and the more I started talking to Maria, and he would contradict himself. Once Erica got in touch with Maria, for the first time, she started hearing Maria sighted things.

All the while, Justin was throwing out a range of theories about what might have happened to Jessica, a stalker, creepy neighbor. She admitted herself to the hospital hospital and the list goes on. He even tried to feed me the story that she's online. She must have got a new phone, probably somebody she's with, she met up with a new guy, because she signed on a messenger. He goes, go look, you can see it's active.

So I would message her through messenger. of course I would get a response. I realize, is this you? Where are you? I'm wearing six and a response would come back. So then I would call for a Facebook messenger because you can call and then he answers the phone. And I'm like, what the fuck, Jessam? And I was pissed. I was livid. I was at work on the month's break. And I'm like, why are you answering the phone? He just, what do you mean?

So what do you mean? What do I mean? You said she was on messenger. I just called her through messenger. And your answering, what is going on? And what just completely come up with some random story again? And it was just, it was crazy. But once NewsWizal that Jessica's body had been found,

he settled on one theory, suicide. I'm sure they've all jumped on the Maria bandwagon. I mean, why not? Everyone else has, and it's a better story than the truth. Let's see. Jessica had mental illness and committed suicide. Or, Justin's a no good piece of shit because Maria says so. He must have had something to do with it.

Yeah, I can guess which one's easier for people to deal with. In fact, he seems certain that Jessica had taken her own life and that everyone would realize it soon enough. After all this shit's over and the information I've come across along with the truth that I've been saying all along will be validated by the corner findings. And the police close the case, know what will change, nothing. Not a damn thing. My image and people's minds will still be the same. Grace is going to be left with the legacy of a mom who committed suicide and a dad that everyone blamed except the police and she'll still be gone.

And most people will be left with more questions than answers. Like, I laid into them. I was like, what the fact that you do to her. I mean, I just went off. I couldn't, couldn't take being nice anymore. You say you miss her and claim it was suicide, but you tell me, why in the hell should I ever believe you? You haven't done anything,

but throw blame the other way. I tried to believe you. I tried to empathize with you, but you have done nothing to make me believe otherwise. You say you're to stop because Grace won't have her mom to bring her to dances. But you tell me, who is really at fault? Did you just get too mad at her? Did she try to leave you?

Jesus Justin, what the fuck? She was one of my best friends! What the fuck? She was one of my best friends! Erica, I could respond to this in a number of ways. Most of them would not make either of us feel very good. But I will say this. Jessica meant the world to me. Always has. In a few or anyone else wants to blame me, I totally understand. And I'll tell you why. None of you have any idea what the fuck I've been going through, but the links I've gone to see that Jess was taken care of in every possible way. I've come to understand why you all blame me for counseling and fighting to keep my own sanity. By January 2020, Justin sent his final text messages to Erica.

I promise you, I miss Jessica a minute to minute and I'm really struggling with life. I swear on my kids I didn't have anything to do with what happened. But what else can I say or do to prove it so many people have been so busy making me out to be a monster. I really cannot believe it's still. I understand completely. It's hard to live here in some ways, and it's a comfort in a few others.

Every morning I wake up, I still think she's next to me. Until I wake up and it's like going through initial shock every day for about 30 minutes. Until my brain realizes what's happening. It's like going through initial shock every day for about 30 minutes. Till my brain realizes what's happening. It's fucking torture. America. I really don't want to be here. At all. On Determined is a production of Resonate Recordings and Tenderfoot TV in conjunction with

Cadence 13, written and hosted by me, Jessica Nol, and produced by Dennis Cooper and Todd McComas with additional production by Whitney Bosarth. Executive producers for Dennis Cooper, Mark Minery, Jacob Bosarth, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay. Our senior producer is John Street. Editing, mixing, mastering, and sound design by Caleb Melcher, Dayton Cole, and Pat Kicklider of the Resonate Recordings team.

If you have a podcast or are looking to start one, check us out at ResonateRecordings.com. Our theme song and original score is by Dirtcore Robbins with additional scoring by Dayton Cole. Our cover art is by station 16. Voice acting by Whitney Bowsarth and Paul Freels. You can follow Undetermined Podcasts on Facebook and on Twitter at UndeterminedPod. Show notes as well as bonus content can be found on our website undeterminedpod.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please take time to subscribe, rate, and review. Your feedback is greatly appreciated. And finally, if you have any information about this case, call Crime Stoppers at 1-877-903-7867.

The tone and inflection used by voice actors is not contextually accurate and is a matter of creative interpretation. You can't imagine what it's like until you're actually there. My heart weight went from zero to 100. You're here to automatically weapon fire outside. A adrenaline rushes through your body and you do what you've from 0 to 100. You're here to the automatic weapons fire outside. A adrenaline rushes through your body, and you do what you've been trained to do. He gets maybe 40 feet, and he collapses. You better have that pit in your stomach.

Once you commit, it's game on. We started going down the road, and then I hear this. Bravery, Banner, Determination, These are the stories of our heroes, Like you've never heard them before. It felt like somebody had hit me with a baseball bat and a lower back.

I opened up my eyes and I looked at him and he was like, I thought you were dead, son. And I was like, I did do. A new podcast from Tenderfoot TV and Telegraph Creative. I'm Remy Amelike, former Navy SEAL. And this is Downrange. Downrange is available now. Listen for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Downrange is available now. Listen for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.