Undetermined - Body Cams (Bonus) | 12.09.22

Episode Date: December 9, 2022

In episodes 1 and 2, you heard NOPD body cam footage, which was recorded during two separate visits to the Durnings’ home shortly after Jessica went missing. In this episode, Jessica and Todd share their analysis of the body cam footage. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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A series of unsolved disappearances spanning decades. And we've been hearing about a lot of them. I've been following your new season about Ashley Lois Blum. I'm sure you may have been contacted regarding the name of Alia Heavy Runner. Many of the missing and murdered are indigenous persons. And we wondered, what factors make this tribal land a place where people just vanish?

So we started looking into it. People seem to be very hesitant to come forward because they're scared for their own safety. You don't know if she was trafficked, you don't know if she is murdered. What's even more crazy is that person who ever did it is probably someone we all know here. From Tenderfoot TV, I'm Celicia Stanton, and this is the vanishing point, an up and vanish series. Available now, listen for free on Apple Podcasts.

Hey listeners, Jessica here. Be sure to check out new episodes of Undetermined every Tuesday for free wherever you get your podcasts. For early and ad-free listening, check out Tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed and participating in the show and do not represent those of Tenderfoot TV and resonate recordings. All individuals described or mentioned in the show and do not represent those of Tenderfoot TV and resonate recordings. All individuals described or mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found guilty

in a court of law. This podcast contains subject matter, such as violence and graphic descriptions, which may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Hey guys, this is Jessica. In this bonus episode, Todd and I wanted to take a minute to share our thoughts around the New Orleans Police Body Camp footage we played in the first couple of episodes. This footage is from the units who went to Jessica Injustice's home the day she went missing. The first recording was from that wellness check spurred by Maria's call to police to report Jessica missing. And the second was from a unit that arrived on scene to officially fill out a missing persons report about two hours later. The footage is recorded within hours of last time anyone ever saw Jessica,

so it's incredibly important to help us understand more about this case. Because my background is in investigative reporting, and Todd's is in law enforcement, we have different lenses through which we look at case materials like this. Part of our on-the-ground investigation has included nightly debriefs where we talk about case material together. Todd is a former detective, so his insight is invaluable in helping me understand what really happened that night.

His perspective has been so helpful to me personally that I thought I would share with you one of our late night recording sessions as we sat inside our New Orleans hotel in the French quarter watching those body cam videos together. Now keep in mind we probably sat there glued to a laptop for about five or six hours but we condensed that down for you so you can get a clearer idea of how the sequence of events that night could have had an impact on the rest of the investigation into Jessica's case.

Let's start with that first wellness check. Okay, so this is Jessica and Todd watching Bodycam footage from August 15, 2019. This will be the lead officer in the wellness check 361 to 97 Oh, did you live here? Yeah, I did We're told we're someone ill here. So you live here? I did, yeah. Six years. We're told, is there one ill here? I'm sorry? Is there one sick here?

No, nobody's sick here, my ass. Yeah, that's it. Right, sit down, sit down. He don't bite there. No, not at all. No, no, no, please. It's one of the good thoughts. We got a call though.

Yeah, I know, it's one of my wife's friends. And let me just say hi so he's not working with you guys. You know, see you have a look. It's all right. There's a exciting. You're a little bit... Sure, you call? No, no, no.

They call. Because she's what, uh, missing? No. I mean, stop, buddy. No, it's the college of... I thought I was really excited. Yeah, you must have thought. So your wife? Yeah.

Is she going, her car's going? 10th, no. It's cars here, her wallet's go nose colors here. How long does she's been going like 12 30 30 I felt asleep. So I don't Yes, sir, and I mean I know S.O.P. That's why I didn't call you guys. I called I called JPSO. Thank you. My name is tech traffic attachment., it's an attachment. I call it OPP, it's the same thing, I call it East Jefferson. She's depressive by polar, but she's on medicine stuff and it's... Okay, so so far, the cop that's talking to him has no information about what this one this check is even about. No.

And we know for a fact that the call was made from Maria. Right. And Maria reported what they had talked about before. The things were going bad. There was a plan. She was going to meet her this day. She couldn't get a hold of her. She was worried about her.

And that I think her husband might have done something to her. That was the information given for the welfare check. Now they're sending an officer out with none of that information. He firstly thought it was like a for elderly person living alone. And then it's someone sick here. Like, right. I mean, so we're getting off of the wrong foot because armed with the information that really was given during the report to cause a wellness check, you already know this call is elevated, right? Like this could be a big deal. Because he's giving the information new to this officer that seems to have no idea why

he's there. Yes. And you can tell, like probably the officers not paying attention to things he should be because he's still trying to catch up on why he's even there. Like so far, the officer has weighed to me, the distraction is going on right now. Absolutely.

He has to deal with this dog, he has to deal with catching up to the story because no one at this patch gave him the full information that came in on the initial call to cause this wellness check. There's just a lot of problems to get started. So, yeah, she left before like this to the length of time?

No, never, never. And that's what's got me concerned. And I called who called you guys, I called her friend of hers, who overreacts to everything. I told her. Okay. Yeah. a friend of hers who overreacts to everything and it's all right. Okay. Yeah. I mean, well, because first you say you're freaking out, then you're saying you're concerned. And then you say her friend must have called you. She overreacts to everything. Well, which is it? Right. Did she ever react? Are you concerned? Yeah, because if you're freaking out, as you said, and that's a quote, why is it overreacting for her to freak out?

Right. I was, but I mean since 1230 days she just apparently warned it off and we just now get in the call. I mean, well no what happened was that woke up about four. Oh okay. I came on from school. I woke up around. Okay. Peace it was made.

And peace it was made. Okay. And she's gone. Right. And the car is here. The keys are here. The person is here. So, you know. She doesn't go wandering off, she's not from here, she's lived here seven, six, six years. So, you know, I was kind of giving it another hour or two before I called you guys because- This is if you wander back. I mean- She's never done that before.

Fuck, no. No, no, no. Oh, man. OK, now I'm bothered. Ask him a question, stop and let it breathe, let them finish their thought so you can get the full information and the full story. And he's not doing that here, and it's driving me crazy. No. And what information he is getting, he's not

using to his advantage because he thought he was coming there first for an elderly man a little by himself that's having some issue and then oh no way man it was someone was ill maybe that was the same man but now he discovers through this man that he encounters the lives there that his wife has been missing since four o'clock this afternoon and it's after 10pm now. One of those since 12. Well he said he fell asleep and woke up at 4 and she was gone.

Right. So at least 4 to then. And then he says, I know who called you too. It was her friend who lives in Alabama and she always over reacts. So now you already armed with enough information to go, wait a minute. We had the wrong information on this. Will you get all the information from the call, from this friend that called in

and see what she reported exactly? Because then you're gonna find out, she says, I think the husband did something to her. And now this might change the way you're approaching this, you know what I mean? Because he's not acting appropriately for a call of this nature. The officer isn't.

You've done well in his task. Sure. And do you normally go to the residents armed with more information than this? Oh, yeah. Yeah, usually you're given, I mean, this is a problem with the communication from the dispatch, obviously, which now they receive it a lot of times over their terminal and their car or the computer, and it just pops up with whatever the Dispatcher types in so either the dispatcher typed in there was another wellness check somewhere else and got the two confused and typed in the wrong information

or He Didn't pay any attention to what was typed in there. I mean one of the two he has the totally wrong information attention to what was typed in there. We wanted the two. He has the totally wrong information. And we know Maria called it in and we know what she said and we know that she didn't say there's an elderly man that lives her by himself, it's not feeling well. So now I gotta stop for a second go. Wait a minute. The guy that lives here whose wife has been missing for at least six hours at this point. Her best friend called.

He didn't. And when the best friend called in, she said she was supposed to pick her up today because they were having domestic issues and she was scared and now she can't get a hold of her and she's afraid her husband has done something to her. That changes everything. And he's not doing it. He didn't do that. This was the perfect time once you get the information to regroup a second and see why you're there

And that's that's my concern You know we've been a little bit For a couple of reasons because like a 15 year old is inside and She got overwhelmed right before going to high school for the first time and Well, you you checked all some good places that you need to check. Hospital, jail, we're never putting anything like this in jail. But at this point, I think the worst could be required, of course. It's only 24 hours.

Well, the circumstances, though, 24 hours, they're coming to play. She just disappeared. You could have done this for four dollars ago. I mean, it's a sprit just, due to her medication and all that other stuff. I would think. And she's been, she's making. As alarmed as the officer just assinuated he was about how suspicious this is,

the next move right now is, okay, let's put the dog up somewhere and let's go inside and talk. Right? Now let's put the dog up somewhere and let's go inside and talk right now. Let's see what he does So in this check all they did was ask why are we here? Why are we here and that was it and. And now they're like, okay, wait a minute. This is really a missing person's report. We need to send a different unit to come take that report.

And now listen, here's what they have going for them. They had the element of surprise. He didn't know the police were coming to his house until they knocked under the door. And they're there to do a wellness check, which they're not doing. This is the problem I have with some mindsets of some uniform officers. And it tends to be ones that have been on too long, okay, longer than they should have. They think that they show up and all they are

are filling the blank officers. I was sitting here for something, I'm gonna have to kick out some kind of incident report. Let me come get enough information to fill out the blanks and send it in there so I can show it to my job. That's not it. You think there's your uniform that you don't have to investigate. You do.

Every police officer is an investigator. This is an investigation. Every investigator. This is an investigation. Every call for service is an investigation. Show up and investigate. You determine what's going on at that house. Someone called and said, my friend might be hurt. She's missing. I'm afraid the husband did something to her,

figure out if that is the case or not or if she's okay That's your job. It's not to say oh wait a minute. I'm a wellness check officer I'm not a take a missing person's report officer So let me wipe my hands clean get back in my car. You have a new officer another couple hours You know, I don't know how this patrol situation is structured. Do they only have wellness check officers, and that's the only duty, they just go around town.

They don't have wellness check. Could they not have done the missing persons report right there? Yeah, I don't get that at all. Why did they have to send another unit out? I have no idea. I don't know if it's because of their assignment, whatever, but if so, you can see the damage that that stuff causes.

This is the most damaging thing that, well, I'm gonna say I'm quite certain this is gonna end up being the most damaging thing that occurs in the first 24 hours of this case. From your perspective, how important are the first 24 and 48 hours in something like this? Paramount, I mean, the stats speak for themselves, right?

You know this, how many cases you cover? Right. If you, I mean, the stats speak for themselves, right? You know this? How many cases do you cover? I mean, if you don't solve in the first 48, you're odds of solving that crime to finish greatly. So, yeah, this whole thing is a train wreck. What you know is that this was the last place she was seen. So the investigation begins here. They're leaving the scene right now without doing anything. Literally anything.

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Metro links and cross links are reminding everyone to be careful as Eglinton Cross Town LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert, this trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals. Be careful along our tracks and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. As Todd and I debriefed about the response from the first responding officer, we highlighted the fact that this initial unit didn't seem to have the full picture about the information

that was given to the NOPD by Maria. While we do not have the audio from that original call, we do have Maria's account to us about what she said on that call, which will be verified by a second independent source, which is that second officer who arrives. Okay, now let's keep everything you just heard in mind as we move into the second call to the house where as promised by the first unit, the officer showed up to take a missing person's report a couple of hours later. Okay, this is going to be just a ton. We're watching and critiquing officer like Kreecha Gantner's body cam labeled just after midnight.

35, I need to go to the bathroom. I'm gonna give you a 21. Okay, she just said she's gonna make a phone call in whoever it is, last name one. So we know that is detective one. Anthony Lund. Earlier tonight around 10-something a friend from out of town called and said that she hadn't been able to get a hold of her friend since Monday I think. She's not answering the phone and all that so an officer came out here I think a leave you off certain amount did a wellness check. Well when they did a wellness check the husband says no I haven't heard from her either. Her phone's here, her purse's here, her meds are here, everything's here but I haven't

heard from her. And I don't know where she's at. And the friend that called from out of town said that she's afraid that the husband did something to her because they have a history of, I guess domestic issues. So she is already coming in with the knowledge of what the first officers responding to the wellness check should have had in their pocket. Yes, she's taking the time to review the call card and get the incoming information. The information that the dispatcher took over the phone. And she's already preparing a detective that she is there, and this is what's going on

before she even approaches Justin. Yes, I mean, that's exactly what you should do. The husband's like, yeah, everything's here, she left everything here. I've no way of contacting her, no way of knowing where she is, because I guess she left everything like following keys that, sir, is her car here? Yeah, her car is here too. Her car is so while it. When is the last time you saw her sir? About 1230. 1230.

Like noon. Correct, around 13. You saw her in person right? Yeah, he saw her in person. She was here at the house. Nothing out there. That's the house. That's the house. Straight to the lake. Nothing out of the lake. No, she can't tell you. No, no, that's not what I said. I said it. So we got like these dual conversations going on because you can tell he's talking to officer Griffin outside

and she is talking to Detective Lawn and somehow Detective Lawn has misconstrued something she said and she's like, no, no, no, no, no, that's not what I said. Right. And I'm curious, at some point, would it be her duty or detective ones at a later point in time,

or even like you said earlier, detective one coming out at this point, to say, hey, is your daughter, your daughter, your father home, can we talk to him, see, you them, to make sure that they didn't see something that they hadn't told you yet? Absolutely. Yeah, that needs to be done.

That should be done here at some point, especially armed with the information that the daughter is 15 years old. She's going to be able to offer good information if she saw something. Or even if she didn't, that's important because I can help narrow down time windows. No, he's really not. It doesn't. He's just rolled notch a lot. Oh, I have the officers come to the poke straight side. My dad and my daughter are sleeping. I don't want to wake them up. But then when we get here, do you guys need to do this in the car or do you want to come in? You can come look through the house if you want. You know, he's just being like really

weird about it. I've tried to call the friend from out of state to see if she can just say if she'll talk to me, but it's just bringing and going to voicemail. She's probably asleep. She's using her observations and her comments since and her experience as a police officer to detect that, but then more importantly to report it, to document it. She's passing it on to the detective, which we didn't see during the wellness check. It was recognized and acknowledged and then quickly dismissed and forgotten about. And then she went one step further and tried to reach out to Maria. Correct.

She's investigating. Yeah. She's not a detective at this point. She's a field training officer, she's a patrol officer, and she is conducting an investigation. And that's what we discussed earlier with the other one, just because you're in uniform,

doesn't mean you're not an investigator yourself. Mm. Okay, do you have a picture of her? Like a current picture? Oh, I do. Okay, do you have a picture of her? Like a current picture? I do. Okay, can you get that in your ID please? I do. Yep, do you want her ID please?

I mean, I have everything. Yeah, that's fine. Do you mind if we walk in with you? No, please. Okay. I have my Belgians in there, so he might go down. Okay, so what prompted you to say, okay, I need to report her missing?

Like around eight o'clock. Yeah, it was starting to dark. Okay. What? What do you wake up from here? About four o'clock. She got home at three. Okay, so we recording the his statement. He went and took a nap sometime around noon between noon and 1230 that afternoon and he says he wakes up at four. His daughter gets home from school at three. So there's an hour where potentially grace and Jessica

spent an hour alone together. Correct. Therefore, grace has potentially pertinent information about Jessica or her whereabouts. Exactly. So just based on that statement right there, that's what the officers armed with right now. And you did talk to your daughter and ask your daughter if she heard from her or

actually seen her. I don't know. I mean, I don't have a brother to wake her up because you want me to get her out with him. No, I don't. I don't. I wake her up. It's too hot in the morning. She has to go to school tomorrow.

She does. Okay. So he just, it's a don't want to wake my daughter up, but I will, if you want to speak to her, an officer, Gantner says, now you don't have to do that. She probably has school tomorrow.

That's, I mean, I love officer Gantner. I think she's a really good police officer and she's doing so well with this. That's just one thing to point out that I feel is a mistake. Yeah, because we established before there is an hour window if he was sleeping until four Grace gets home at three, then he created an hour window of Grace and Jessica alone time that she can account for that he cannot. Yes, and she's a juvenile.

You need the parents permission to speak to her. But she just gave her a... And she just gave it. And now, at some point, he goes from a reporting party to a suspect and lawyers up. He's not going to allow access to the daughter either. So this was your window. Officer Gantner said when they were first walking there

that she would she wants to walk through the entire house and I think she should have stuck with that plan and just kind of insisted on it. He would have he would have allowed her. I'm sure and if he would have all of a sudden he allowed her to search everywhere in the house except this one place then that would have become concerning for her and and probably step things up on her behalf. Also, the easiest place to work your way into in the house is the bathroom, at least the common area bathroom. Maybe it doesn't make sense to go to the master bathroom, but it's a trick we always use all the time.

And anything like this where you think someone would have been injured is for the officer who's not speaking directly to the person to ask to use the restroom. Then you get to go in the bathroom and just kind of look around a little bit. You don't go outside the scope of your duties, but you look around everywhere that you're lawfully allowed to look around once you're allowed access to the bathroom. You don't start opening cabinet drawers because a body can't fit in the cabinet drawer yet But you look around very closely to see if there's something out of the out of the ordinary

Right right right right and this is a bit of armchair quarterbacking because she did a great job. Yeah overall But it's it's something she missed That I would have expected her to utilize now She doesn't have the benefit of being with another experienced officer to be that second person. Who would usually come up with that idea and she's handling everything herself. So she's probably a little more distracted and she would have been with another veteran person to work with her. But I just felt like those are two fairly sizable mistakes or things that weren't done.

One was to talk to the daughter when given the opportunity and to try to get a look at more of the house, especially the bathroom. Especially since he offered up both of those things. Correct. I agree. I think that might be the only mistake here because I believe after this this the doors are closed.

Yes, and you know, overall, I wish Officer Gantner was investigating this case. I wish she was the detective on this case because so far in this entire thing, she has been the best part of the law enforcement side of this thing. Like she really knows what she's doing. Enjoy the classic taste of the holidays at Tim's with the new non-alcoholic Bailey's flavored holiday menu. Whether you're hanging holiday lights or driving up to your folks, you can enjoy your Tim's and Bailey's,

anytime, anywhere, at participating restaurants in Canada. I didn't understand that people go missing this way. It's a very odd thing. You have no idea what it's like to lose a human being on your watch. Gary DeVore was an A-list screenwriter who disappeared without a trace in 1997. I had the biggest action stars in Hollywood searching for my husband.

But nobody really knows what happened. We try to find out on witnessed Vade to Black, available now wherever you get your podcasts. We've mentioned this before, but the police body cam audio raises a serious accusation about previous domestic violence between Justin and Jessica. But it's important to understand that Justin has never been charged with any crimes of domestic violence against Jessica, so we need to maintain an open mind. Investigations like this are complex and they happen in real time, which can expose challenges when looked at in hindsight.

If this had been the first police unit to respond to Jessica's home, Todd and I are confident that her case may be in a very different status today. One takeaway for Todd and me from reviewing this body cam footage is that we are now more committed than ever to determine what really happened in the days prior and the days following Justin's interaction with the NOPD. Ultimately our investigation is still ongoing and will continue until we exhaust every avenue. Hopefully this has been as insightful to you as it was for me.

Be sure to follow along with our investigation as we continue to unpack this story in our next episode. Undetermined is a production of Resonate Recordings and Tenderfoot TV in conjunction with Caden's 13, written and hosted by me, Jessica Nol, and produced by Dennis Cooper and Todd McComas, with additional production by Whitney Bosarth. Executive producers are Dennis Cooper, Mark Minnery, Jacob Bosarth, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay. Our senior producer is John Street.

Editing, mixing, mastering, and sound design by Caleb Melcher, Dayton Cole, and Pat Kicklider of the Resonate Recordings team. If you have a podcast or are looking to start one, check us out at resonaterecordings.com. Our theme song and original score is by Dirt Poor Robbins with additional scoring by Dayton Cole. Our cover art is by station 16.

You can follow undetermined podcast on Facebook and on Twitter at undetermined pod. Show notes as well as bonus content can be found on our website undeterminedpod.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please take time to subscribe, rate, and review. Your feedback is greatly appreciated. And finally, if you have any information about this case, call Crime Stoppers at 1-877-903-7867. You can't imagine what it's like until you're actually there. My heart weight went from zero to 100. You're here to do automatic weapons fire outside. A adrenaline rushes through your body and you do what you've been trained to do.

He gets maybe 40 feet and he collapses. You better have that pit in your stomach. Once you commit, it's game on. We started going down the road and then I hear this. Bravery, Banner, Determination. These are the stories of our heroes,

like you've never heard them before. It felt like somebody had hit me with a baseball bat and a lower back. I opened up my eyes and I looked down at him and he was like, I thought you were dead, son. And I was like, I did too. A new podcast from Tenderfoot TV and Telegraph Creative. I'm Remy Anilake, former Navy SEAL. And this is Downrange.

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