Undetermined - MIA | 8

Episode Date: January 24, 2023

There’s a lot of talk about one person in this podcast. Everyone has an opinion about Jessica’s husband. But we want to hear his story first-hand. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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horror story. I don't even know how to explain it. Hidden in the redwoods of the Pacific Northwest, Hupa Valley grapples with a crisis, a series of unsolved disappearances spanning decades. And we've been hearing about a lot of them. I've been following your new season about Ashley Lawrence. I'm sure you may have been contacted. We're talking about the name of Alia Heavy Runner. Many of the missing and murdered are indigenous persons. And we wondered what factors make this tribal land a place

where people just vanish. So we started looking into it. People seem to be very hesitant to come forward because they're scared for their own safety. You don't know if she was trafficked, you don't know if she is murdered. What's even more crazy is that person who ever did it is probably someone we all know here. From Tenderfoot TV, I'm Celicia Stanton, and this is the vanishing point, an up and vanish series. Available now, listen for free on Apple Podcasts.

Hey listeners, Jessica here. Be sure to check out new episodes of Undetermined, every Tuesday for free, wherever you get your podcasts. For early and ad-free listening, check out Tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed and participating in the show and do not represent those of Tenderfoot TV and resonate recordings. All individuals described or mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found guilty in a court of law. This podcast contains subject matter such as violence and graphic descriptions, which may not

be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. October 2020, the same month Jessica's neighbor, Laura, sees authority swabbing a futon and headboard near the driveway of the Durnings residents. A heated text message exchange starts between a man from the Lake Free Neighborhood and another individual who he believes to be a fellow neighbor. I guess if you asked like my family or friends, they would probably be like, they wouldn't be surprised.

I'm curious by nature in these types of things and when it happens so close to your home, it tugs on you a little bit more, I guess. It started pretty simple, like I said, just a neighbor texting someone he believed to be another neighbor. But what it led to is well astounding. And now, for the first time, this neighbor is ready to share his story. I felt like I had, I guess, a responsibility or a duty to tell my side and say what happened and, you know sports? Point's bet is the sportsbook for you, because we've got the features for true competitors, like live, same-game parlays.

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Point Spets Sportsbook and Casino. Metrolinx and CrossLinks are reminding everyone to be careful as Eglinton Crosstown LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert, this trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals. Be careful along our tracks and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. In our last episode, we learned how Jessica's sister Audrey formed her own village of sorts within the Lakeview neighborhood. With many Lakeview residents stepping up and helping in this investigation in various ways.

But as I had mentioned, there's one other neighbor we spoke with who may arguably hold the biggest piece of evidence in this case that we know of. So, we headed over to his Lakeview home to sit down and hear his story. He asked to go by a pseudonym for this podcast. My name is Jay Royce. I live in the neighborhood where Jessica Easterly was found. Jay's involvement in this case started just like his neighbor, Laura's,

when he spotted a crime stoppers flyer on a telephone pole near his home. I came across a sign one day on my way home from work and Google her name because I hadn't heard of the case or her and that kind of opened a Pandora's box of things online with podcasts and websites and new stories and I started just kind of opened a Pandora's box of things online with podcasts and websites and news stories. And I started just kind of doing a little more research and digging into it. As a Concerned Neighbor, Jake quickly turned into an Internet's loooth of sorts. I was apparently living here at the time of it happening and no one that I know had heard of it,

so it kind of peaked my curiosity a little bit. That a body was found not far from my house. It's a little disturbing. I mean, there's no way anyone can feel good about that, especially not knowing officially what happened to her. It's just unsettling feeling. He nervously takes a sip of his bourbon on the rocks. As we continue our conversation, holding his lowball glass, he tells us about Lakeview. Yeah, it's a good neighborhood. I mean, we have your petty theft stuff where, you know, people break into cars here and there,

and but something like that is definitely out of the ordinary. I mean, it was kind of a running thing where it was if you had your car broken into or something to report, that don't hold your breath while waiting for the police to come and check on it, because they may not even show up. And that's happened multiple times from what I've heard. Not saying that they're bad people or anything like that, but I think they're probably understaffed and overwhelmed and have... It was Jay's lack of faith in the N-O-P-D that led him to continue his online search in an attempt to learn more about Jessica's case.

Of course, in his research, he learned of her husband Justin. He also learned that Justin lived in the neighborhood. So Jay opened up his next store app, a neighborhood forum of sorts, and that's when he spotted Justin. We had just Google's name just to see who he was. And I noticed on one of these apps on like a neighborhood app, it was right around the time of her death, where he starts posting on this neighborhood app, just trying to be friendly with people and saying, oh yeah, I know about this, know about that.

If you need any help, call me and he would post his number. And nobody's posting their number ever. And he did that multiple times. And then all of a sudden had stopped, like, right around the time where it was confirmed that it was her. I literally just stopped. He had never posted again. Jay was upset about everything he'd read on Jessica's case, and since Justin had posted

his phone number in the next door app, Jay decided to text him. But since he was a stranger to Justin, he didn't really expect a conversation to form, but it did. While the number J texted is the same number Justin gave to police when Jessica went missing and the same number her loved ones had saved as Justin in their phones, it's important to note that we have no way of verifying whether or not Justin was in possession of the phone number at the time of these text messages. J shared the original text exchanges with us, and we're going to read the ones we can and have J fill in the gaps.

I'll have Todd voice J Royce's text, and I'll voice the other individuals' text. It started on September 20, 2020. Hey Justin, how you been? Great. Struggling a bit. Too bad. Better than being in the sandbox though, huh?

True. My dog died. And I thought that was kind of funny because I did see his dog being walked in the neighborhood the day before. And I've seen his dog walked subsequently after that as well. I didn't text him anymore at that moment. While the initial text exchange ended at this point, that wasn't the end of their communication. To J. Surprise, things would continue and become

much more personal. For legal reasons, we can only read certain excerpts of the next portion. The texting commenced again on October 15th. Thought your dog was dead. You aren't very sealer silenced more Dallas. Sleep tight. What the fuck you lame ass bitch? LOL, you can't even spell. Fuck you bitch. As the conversation starts to spiral, Jay makes strong accusations. The unknown individual replies to Jay's accusation,

saying, quote, she was cheating. At this point, you may be thinking as I am, why would this other individual be so open and candid with a total stranger? Doesn't make sense. Well, it quickly becomes evident that this person was under the impression that Jay was someone they knew very well, saying, quote, you were my best friend.

He somehow thought I was his best friend when we were texting. Never questioned who I was. So when I realized that he thought I was somebody else, I decided to press him a little bit. Went out him hard to get him to be a little defensive. He ended up saying that, you know, I didn't kill her. She slipped and fell. Where? In the bathroom. In the bathroom. Then how'd she get to the train tracks, bro? I panicked and drove there. You need to come clean and let the family have peace. Why if I'm an incident?

We believe the other individual's final message was intended to be why if I'm innocent. This was the last text exchanged between Jay and the other unknown person. So that's when we knew that there was... that he probably is not... he's got a screw loose. I wouldn't be surprised if he was high on something in the midst of this because apparently within a couple days he deleted this number and it was no longer his. It belonged to someone else.

Take me there. How do you know that? Well, I know that for a couple of reasons. I know the police officer told me it was someone else's number at that point. And then to verify that, we texted the guy and said, you know, who is this? A few days later, Jay calls the number. We called him and he said, this isn't him. And I said, prove you aren't him and call me. So then he called and I could tell by his voice, it wasn't him.

But it was a kid. Definitely wasn't a man. He's like, I don't know what's going on. him, but it was a kid. Definitely wasn't a man. He's like, I don't know what's going on. J reached out to Audrey and Maria and shared screenshots of the text conversation. She was like, holy shit.

And within about 15 minutes, a detective from NOPD called me to their credit, and which I wasn't expecting. And he was trying to set up a time for me to come in and hand over my phone so they could do some forensic analysis on it. So we did that. What was the timeframe in which you had your phone in? Just a few days. Yeah. Like two or three at the most. And then the police told you specifically that that phone was no longer his?

Yeah, and then I wanted to verify that and I did did he define it like a It stopped being his two days after those texts or they didn't get in the specifics on that Apparently is one of those like internet numbers where you could like You know get rid of quickly or something like that and request a new one and it just gets assigned to somebody else who's wanting a new one or something. But I know that whatever he was using, it allowed him to get rid of the number and move on and have that number be assigned to someone else. Regardless of who owns the phone number now, Jay believes what he

believes. He's learned even more about the case since that text conversation. And over time, he's only become more troubled by everything. But since we are unable to verify that Justin still used that phone number at that time without supporting evidence, there's also a real possibility that this was just simply another person Jay was texting with. There's no real way to know. What I can say is that if this was, in fact, a different person, it does seem striking to Todd and I, that there were a lot of parallels between the text exchange and what we do know

about Jessica and the circumstances surrounding her death. The fact that NOPD took these texts and investigated them seems to show they took this exchange seriously, but I want to be very clear and remind everyone that no charges of any kind have been brought against Justin in relation to Jessica's death. After ending our conversation with Jay, I'm left with so many questions, and it feels more important now than ever before to try and make contact with Justin myself. To see if he may have any insight into all of this, some kind of explanation to this conversation and all the other things that are left unanswered

We figure there's no better option than to go straight to Justin's front door I make my way up to the front door while Todd waits in the car After a few knocks the door opens It's not who I expected. Hi, it's Justin home. No. He's not, do you know when he might be back? Um, I haven't heard from him for a week. A week?

Yeah, I must be. I'm greeted by an older Asian man who's tall but hunched over in the doorway. He's shirtless and appears to have just woken up. The door is kept cracked, but I can see a glimpse of the inside. It's dark and still on the other side. It's not clear whether Justin's daughter Grace or his father Justin Sr. are home.

Do you know where he might be? He's probably... He's on a job site right now, so I'm not sure. In New Orleans? No. Oh, okay. How the fuck would he be? Oh, he's out of town, okay, okay. I remembered that Laura, Justin and Jessica's neighbor,

who we heard from previously, mentioned that a man moved in sometime after Jessica's death. Laura believes the man's name is Bart. Are you Bart by chance? Would you... Actually, I'm a journalist. I'm working on a story about... That's a question. Yes, I'm telling you.

I'm a journalist. My name is Jessica Nol. And I'm working on a story about Jessica. And I had just heard that he had a roommate named Bart that was all. Did you know Jessica? You know, I came on Met just an after-sheet last away. Oh, okay. Okay, but you're totally, you know, the people in this neighborhood. I will tell you about them and then they'll probably fuck these people.

Why what's going on? Same reason, you know my name. After Bart slams the door, I leave my business card on the mailbox and then return to the card to update Todd on the encounter. Let's move along for a minute. With no luck on our door knock, Todd and I take some time to strategize and make the decision to head back to the hotel and try reaching Justin by other means. For Collison Ford, a devoid snail.

Please leave a message. Todd first dials the number for what we believe is Justin's landline. And after several unanswered calls, someone finally answers. This time, it's not Bart, and it's not Justin, but rather Justin Senior. Unfortunately, he seems to have trouble hearing, making the conversation difficult. Justin. Hello. Hello, Justin.

Hello. Hello, can you hear me? Go ahead. Is this Justin's senior? Yes. Hi, how are you? What? How are you doing today?

Good to back. Yeah. Well, hey, my name's Todd McComus and I wanted to see if I could talk to you for a second I'm trying to find Justin. Do you know where he's at? Where is he? I'm trying to find Justin trying to get a hold of him. Do you know where he is or how I can get a hold of him? Or how I can get a hold of him? I assume he's at work. Oh, is that work? Does he work here local? I don't know. Oh, you don't know? What kind of works he do? Is he new construction?

No, no, no. When was the last time you saw Justin? I don't know. Has it been a while? Like four days, five days? No, no. A Come on, come on. A long time, short time. Hello? Yeah, I know.

So no luck, be a phone, either. Back to square one. Over several late night, caffeine-fueled conversations in our French Quarter Hotel room, we've remembered a name that Justin mentioned before. It was in the body chem audio. We've been through a few of these things that we've been through and we've been through these things that we've been through and we've been through these things that we've been through and we've been through these things that we've been through

and we've been through these things that we've been through and we've been through these things that we've been through and we've been through these things that we've been through and we've been through these things that we've been through

and we've been through these things that we've been through and we've been through these things that we've been through and we've been through these things that we've been through and we've been through these things that we've been through

and we've been through these things that we've been through and we've been through these things that we've been through these things that we've been through personal belief. Like, okay, you know, what's not reasonable about this? Nothing reasonable about this. Maybe Ralph will know where we can find Justin. So we look him up. Ralph Whalen is apparently a prominent white collar criminal defense and personal injury attorney in New Orleans. He's been practicing law since 1971. We thought maybe Justin would be open to a sit-down if his attorney friend was present. So Todd makes a call to Ralph.

Hi Ralph, my name is Todd McComis. I'm calling about an individual that you may or may not be representing. His name is Justin Dernin. Yeah, yeah. He's retained your services? that you may or may not be representing. His name is Justin Durning. Yeah, yeah. He's retained your services? Yeah. Okay, are you generally retained

or are you retaining him for a specific matter? Well, he's a friend. I mean, I can't even tell you that I'm specifically retained or anything of his friend of mine, so. Oh, okay. Who are you with? I'm a retired detective with the Niana State Police. And...

Todd explains to Ralph that we were working on a story regarding Jessica, that we would really like to talk to Justin if he'd be open to it. Unfortunately, Ralph wasn't able to answer our questions, but he told us he would pass along our information to Justin and said we could follow up with him via email. So after their conversation ended, I sent an email to Ralph, but I have yet to receive a response. As it stands, Justin is MIA.

After unsuccessfully trying Justin multiple times by various means, we tried to think outside the box. If we couldn't speak with him directly to get our questions answered, maybe his family could give us some insight. We spoke to several members of his extended family, and while it helped provide some context to his family's history and roots in the area, it didn't get us any closer to learning what he may have known about the days around Jessica's death and disappearance. The family feels terrible about Jessica and how her family is still left looking for justice. While they may not have been close to her, they still feel a connection. After all, she was Justin's wife. If you remember, we've previously mentioned Justin's second wife, Lauren, who he was married to when

he first met Jessica. Unfortunately, Lauren was not willing to talk to us for the podcast, but someone who was willing to speak with us was his other ex, Dolores Wenzel Lakossio, who was Grace's mom. So, I reached out to her, not really knowing what to expect, but I was surprised to find that not only was she open to talking with us, she was very candid about their life together. Dolores doesn't shy away from the fact that over the years she has had some issues in her life stemming from addiction and that brings us to the beginning of her and Justin's story. I was 32 at the time and I was in my first marriage and I'll just be completely brutally honest, which is that I had an overdose that

I had on purpose trying to kill myself. Subsequently, I told a doctor that I needed help with getting off of medication. And so they sent me outpatient day program from eight in the morning to four in the afternoon, kind of like a school for addicts. That's where Justin and I met. Although she admits to battling with addiction back then, Dolores can vividly recount her life by Justin's side. After living together in Louisiana for some time, the couple moved to Arizona,

and it was while they were living out west that she found out she was pregnant with Grace. I took a pregnancy test and I was in the bathroom. He's like, well what the fuck does it say? And I'm like, he broke the door down in Arizona. He's like, mother, whatever. And he took the test and it like, twomping, ping, ping, ping, off of all the sides of the freaking wall. And he punched me right there like, congratulations. She vividly remembers the look in his eyes that night in the bathroom, and she was holding

the pregnancy test. The eyes go black, and you're looking right through them. It's like they're eyes are full of dust. There's no soul, but when you look at them, they don't see you. They're looking, you're looking or they're looking right through you. And it is horrific. Dolores describes a very turbulent relationship with Justin, but this is not the first time we've heard accusations like this made against Justin.

We heard similar comments in regards to Justin's second marriage to Lauren. Again, we had reached out to Lauren directly, hoping she'd be open to sharing her story, but she explained she did not want to participate, and I can understand the hesitation. But we were able to obtain a copy of a petition that Lauren filed for domestic abuse protection order with the Justice Court of Gulfport, Mississippi. We requested a copy of that restraining order from the Gulfport Police Department, but there was no order of protection on file. However, in her sworn statement in that petition, dated August 3, 2011, Lauren stated that on

July 12, 2011, Justin attacked and choked her inside their home. She checked a box on that petition that states petitioner submits there exists immediate and present danger of abuse. She also checked the box that states that a divorce is pending. The golf port police were unable to locate any record of this domestic abuse protective order, which could simply mean that the request was not granted by the court, and therefore no order was given to the police. or the order may have been granted but has since expired. In some cases, police departments purged records after a few years,

depending on what they are. Either way, no record was on file with the police. But they did send us a copy of a police report from May 26, 2009, in which Justin was arrested for the offense, quote, unlawful for convicted felon to possess any firearms, which followed a felony conviction for prescription fraud in Jefferson Parish, Louisiana. Further, Jail Record showed that on August 16, 2011, Justin was arrested and charged in Harrison County, Mississippi on a domestic violence charge. We have requested that report. While we're on the topic of records, there was one item that comes up many times in conversations about Justin, his military record. If Justin had in fact served in the military,

his military record. If Justin had in fact served in the military, I wanted to be able to confirm this important chapter in his life. So we made public records requests through multiple veteran and military agencies, including the Department of Justice and the National Archives personnel records. Based on the information we provided in those requests, there were no military records of any branch of service that could be verified for just in earning junior. Enjoy the classic taste of the holidays at Tim's with the new non-alcoholic Bailey's flavored holiday menu. Whether you're hanging holiday lights or driving up to your folks,

you can enjoy your temps and bailies, anytime, anywhere, at participating restaurants in Canada. I didn't understand that people go missing this way. It's a very odd thing. You have no idea what it's like to lose a human being on your watch. Gary DeVore was an A-list screenwriter who disappeared without a trace in 1997. I had the biggest action stars in Hollywood searching for my husband. But nobody really knows what happened. We try to find out on witness Vade de Black,

available now wherever you get your podcasts. As we continue our conversation with Dolores, she tells us that after the incident in the bathroom, she and Justin's relationship began to sour. But eventually, the couple moved back to Louisiana. When we came back from Arizona, that was the end of our relationship. You know, when somebody is sitting right next to you, but for all purposes, they could be on another planet. He was there physically, but he had gone.

He was gone. I call him a narcissist because he fits just the profile, not because I'm like this mean angry acts. Yes, I'm angry over a lot of things, But is he wanted something? He was being so nice. And he picked me up and he brought me over to see Grace and not thinking, I didn't think it was going to be the last time and she was beautiful, but I could all already see the distance coming. She didn't recognize me, you know, that short of a time. And then I held her and she smiled. me, you know, that short of a time. And then I held her and she smiled. And then guess who drives up? It's Justin's mom. What they wanted was a long form, my

birth certificate, because they wanted to get child care, benefits, or money. And then they wanted me to sign a paper for temporary custody and I said not on your life He said oh wow F you because guess what when the cops arrested you you signed over custody I said Justin. Oh, that's a good one put that one in the books. I said Please don't make you sign over custody, you're full of shit. And then he was mad. That'll be the last time you ever seen me out of this kid. Yeah, well you're right.

Fast forward to 2019, when Dolores heard about Jessica's death, she went straight to the NOPD to help in any way she could. Having had a close relationship to Jessica's husband, she figured she could give them some insight. But according to Dolores, talking to the NOPD was a pretty fruitless effort. He was very dismissive and he said, look, we've already solved it. I said, so basically, I'll just say it. I said so basically, I'll just say it. You're thinking what, junkie horror goes to cop dope and deal goes wrong and guy breaks her neck and leaves her

and she falls without her shoe in the wrong position. Because you're being sarcastic, I said of course, absolutely because that's a ridiculous theory. I said, of course, absolutely, because that's a ridiculous theory. I said, the truth of the matter is, this is someone's daughter, okay? And this is bullshit. I don't care that you think you have to prioritize, because just five of the civilian murders. This woman is important. She's a sister. She is a daughter. She was a wife, and she was a stepmother to my child.

They need to take this shit into account. As you can hear in her voice, the weight of her past still spills over into her present despite being in a much better place in life these days. But everything she's experienced has helped her gain a newfound perspective. The first narrative you hear, unfortunately, is usually the one you believe. It's all about perception because everyone has a different perception of the truth. Think about it because everyone has a reason and everyone has a motive, justice will be served. Karma needs to happen. Maybe not in my life, but somebody's time.

No matter how obvious it all seems to Dolores, this case remains undetermined and is in dire need of some answers. It still feels like the one person in this who could possibly hold some answers is Justin. But as for our efforts to find Justin while in New Orleans, doorknox, phone calls, emails and text messages, well, unfortunately for now, they're all a bust. One of the reasons we had hoped to speak to Justin was simply to get his story.

But another reason we wish to speak with him was because at this point, more than 500 days since Jessica's death, he'd yet to claim her remains from the corner, and her family was desperate to have at least that. Even Jay Royce, the neighbor we spoke to at the beginning of this episode, has an opinion when it comes to this topic. Her poor family was wanting closure and just wanting, you know, to be able to have a ceremony of some sorts, you know, someone dies,

you have a funeral, that's what you do. He had the sole decision power on allowing her to stay in the morgue. Why would you do that? Even if he couldn't afford a funeral, then why not just release it to the family so they could do it? It made no sense. Again, we haven't been able to speak with Justin about this or about anything. Like I said, he's MIA at this time.

But in an interesting turn of events, his absence might just lead to a bit of resolution. Out of the blue, Jessica's sister Audrey receives a phone call, not from Justin, but from the coroner's office. The coroner called me and asked me if my name was Audra Schmidt and I said yes. And I said, can we have Jessica? He said, well, he goes, I'm going to have to make it legal and send Justin legal notices. I was like, okay, I was like, well, can you give me a timeline? He said, I cannot give you a timeline. I felt like, oh my God, finally,

they're releasing her to us. On Determined is a production of Resonate Recordings and Tenderfoot TV in conjunction with Cadence 13, written and hosted by me, Jessica Nol, and produced by Dennis Cooper and Todd McComas, with additional production by Whitney Bozarth. Executive producers are Dennis Cooper, Mark Minnery, Jacob Bozar, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay. Our senior producer is John Street, editing, mixing, mastering, and sound design by Caleb Melcher, Dayton Cole, and Pat Kidklider of the Resonate Recordings team. If you have a podcast or are looking to start one, check us out at resonaterecordings.com. Our theme song and original score is by Dirt Poor Robbins with additional scoring by

Dayton Cole. Our cover art is by station 16. You can follow undetermined podcast on Facebook and on Twitter at undetermined pod. Show notes as well as bonus content can be found on our website undeterminedpod.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please take time to subscribe, great, and review. Your feedback is greatly appreciated. And finally, if you have any information about this case, call Crime Stoppers at 1-877-903-7867. You can't imagine what it's like until you're actually there. My heart weight went from zero to 100. You're here to automatic weapons fire outside. A adrenaline rushes through your body and you do what you've been trained to do. He gets maybe 40 feet and he collapses. You better have that pit near stomach. Once you commit it's game on. We started going down the road and then I hear this.

Bravery, Valor, Determination. These are the stories of our heroes, like you've never heard them before. It felt like somebody had hit me with a baseball bat and a lower back. I opened up my eyes and I looked at him and he was like, I thought you were dead, son. And I was like, I did too. A new podcast from Tenderfoot TV and Telegraph Creative. I'm Remy Anilake, former Navy SEAL.

And this is Downrange. Downrange is available now. Listen for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. is available now. Listen for free on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.