Undetermined - The Other Jessica | 4

Episode Date: December 20, 2022

Another woman named Jessica has an odd encounter with Justin in the restaurant she works at, a few months following Jessica’s death. She wants to report him to the police and give them a new piece of evidence… but she is met with some resistance. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Holt Renfrew is sharing joy for the holidays with gifts for everyone on your list, and maybe even a special treat for yourself, too. Discover the new collection for Burberry by Daniel Lee. Add some ambiance with Louis V. Home. Give Gorpkora try and Solomon Sneakers, and so much more. Whatever presence you pick, we know they're going to love them. Visit a store today or shop at HoltRenfrew.com. Almost every kid here has an absolute horror story.

I don't even know how to explain it. Hidden in the redwoods of the Pacific Northwest, Hupa Valley grapples with a crisis. A series of unsolved disappearances spanning decades. And we've been hearing about a lot of them. I've been following your new season about Ashley Lorschblum. I'm sure you may have been contacted regarding the name of Alia Heavyrunner. Many of the missing and murdered are indigenous persons, and we wondered what factors make

this tribal land a place where people just vanish. So we started looking into it. People seem to be very hesitant to come forward because they're scared for their own safety. You don't know if she was trafficked, you don't know if she is murdered. What's even more crazy is that person who ever did it is probably someone we all know him. From Tenderfoot TV, I'm Celicia Stanton, and this is the vanishing point, an up-and-vanished series. Available now, listen for free on Apple Podcasts.

Hey listeners, Jessica here. Be sure to check out new episodes of Undetermined, every Tuesday for free wherever you get your podcast. every Tuesday for free wherever you get your podcasts. For early and ad-free listening, check out Tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed and participating in the show and do not represent those of Tenderfoot TV and resonate recordings. All individuals described or mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found guilty in a court of law. This podcast contains subject matter, such as violence and graphic descriptions, which may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

As January 2020 rolled around, Jessica's family was waiting on pins and needles for any update from police, any shred of new information or details that could shed some light on what happened to their Jessica. As far as the investigation was going, it had been a long five months. Sure, they were getting snippets from Erica during that month's long text conversation she and Justin had. But as you know from our last episode, it was right around this time in early 2020 that Erica and Justin's conversation ended. And since Justin had zero contact with Jessica's family, at this point, they were pretty much in the dark until one day in late January

when an officer informed Audrey that there was a woman who wished to speak with her, her name, Jessica. I got a message from a cop in New Orleans telling me that this girl named Jessica wanted to reach out to me. She had information. I read the message from her and she wanted me to call her. I was thinking to myself, oh my god, this is Justin, this is just some fake person. I ended up calling her anyway and I found out that she had a run-in with Justin at the bar that she worked at. You came in very quickly so it caught my attention and he said, wow you really reminded me of my wife. She just committed suicide but try telling

the Mormons police department that. In 26 years of bartending, I've met a lot of people and had a lot of strange interactions and some scary list, and maybe even a special treat for yourself, too. Discover the new collection for Burberry by Daniel Lee. Add some ambiance with Louis V. Home. Give Gorpgora a try in Solomon's sneakers, and so much more. Whatever presence you pick, we know they're going to love them. Visit a store today or shop at HoltRenfrew.com.

Enjoy the classic taste of the holidays at Tim's with the new non-alcoholic Bailey's flavored holiday menu. Whether you're hanging holiday lights or driving up to your folks, you can enjoy your the rest of the world. The late Anthony Bourdain once said, New Orleans is, quote, a must-see city because there's no explaining it, no describing it, you can't compare it to anything." Everything in this city has a history, a uniqueness, a story. You never know where a day in New Orleans will take you. For Todd and me, this particular day brings us to the outskirts of downtown to a quaint Mexican restaurant called El Cabo Real.

Upon entering, we're immediately hit with the aroma of freshly chopped cilantro and warm homemade tortillas. and warm homemade tortillas. The walls are lined with bright, vivid artwork by locals, including a mosaic-style painting depicting the church next door. The entire place is immaculate and colorfully decorated. Our reason for being here isn't as uplifting as the restaurant we're sitting in, nor its cheerful decor. We're here because back in January of 2020, just a week after Jessica's coroner's report

was released, another woman named Jessica, or Jessica V, as will call her, supposedly had an unforgettable encounter with Justin Durning in this very restaurant. And she wasn't alone when she met Justin. Her friend Nate was there too. Both have been in the service industry for a long time. So they've had their fair share of stringing counters. But they say this one was different. I've interacted with strangers my whole life and my jobs

and I've come into contact with any number of real strange people. But this was, I mean, this was by far the most. The whole thing was such a mind-fuck to be honest. Yeah, I just thought it was all bullshit. And so I just like, there's something insane going on inside him. Todd and I sat down with both Jessica V and Nate to get the full story of what happened the day they met Justin at the restaurant.

So me and Jess had planned to hang out to after she had gotten off work and I just lived on the street at the time so I was going to go in and sit down at the bar and wait for her to get off. I decided to sit at the bar and she made me a half watermelon, half lime swirl frozen margarita, which is my favorite. We were just drinking and eating and Justin came in. I didn't know who he was, of course, at the time. He looked frantic and unhealthy, like in a way,

like he maybe hadn't been like eating good or... He didn't look inebriated or anything, but he just looked frantic, disheveled and scrawny, but right away I was like, please don't talk to me, like right when I saw him, but I could tell that he really needed to talk to someone obviously. He started walking towards us and immediately asked us about the food pantry next door. There's a church that runs a food pantry next door. We could see the very expensive car he pulled up and so it was just right off the bat, a seemingly weird situation. And I said, well, I think that closes about three hours ago. He said, of course it's closed. This is just what my life is right now.

I should just kill myself. That's immediately what he said. I responded and I said, oh, hey, hey, man, don't hurt yourself. And I said, I always tell the people around me when I'm upset that they better be the ones to watch out. Justin was out of sorts, she says. She noticed that he smelled and his hair was disheveled. She characterizes him as being twitchy.

Then when he mentioned the death and he was saying he wanted to kill himself, that maybe he's just having a mental breakdown. At first I was kind of giving him the benefit of the doubt of maybe I just need to calm this dude down and like he sits here a second Maybe just collect his bearings and he'll go But then yeah got really uncomfortable very quickly and he said wow you really remind me of my wife She just committed suicide, but try telling the New Orleans police department that I'm not certain what I responded to him.

And he said again, he's like, you really remind me a lot of my wife, what's your name. And I said, Jessica, and he said, that is my wife's name. He's like, you look about her size. I have all of this shit of hers in my house. I got to get rid of it. I got to get it out of there. I have her hope chest. I have all of her clothes, all designer. They're all amazing. They're all expensive. He's telling me all this and telling me he's got to go to the food pantry. And I said, you know, there's some consignments that you could probably make a lot of money on these things. Maybe you should do that. I said, did she have family that might want it?

He said, yeah, but yeah, they're not getting it. It just went from, like I said, a stranger walking in to just all of a sudden, you look like my dead wife, that committed suicide. And then I have all of her things, and I need to get rid of them. Like I need to get her out of my house because I can't handle it,

but it was very like a sad, like I can't handle having all her things around. I mean, it just went so gross really fast when you know when a man's like, what's your shoe size? You know, what kind of fashion do you like? What size shirt do you wear and stuff? Cause you can come get all my

dead wife's things. But then it went from there to like maybe we should hang out sometime like what are you into? It was mostly very focused on Jess. Then he starts talking about how him and Jessica should hang out and how he loves diving and how he has all this scuba equipment and how he loves diving. And how he has all this scuba equipment and how he loves knives and he loves hunting and shooting bows and arrows and all this stuff. I'm like, I'm so confused. It was a whirlwind for sure. At this point, Jessica V says, she pretty much quit engaging with Justin and went on to warn her co-workers of the situation.

She wanted to wrap up her shift so she could get out of there. But before she could, she needed to give Justin his bill. And it was then that Jessica V and Nate both noticed him frantically scribbling something into a notebook. They weren't sure what. I was leaving us, I put his bill in front of him, and he said, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, and then turned around to the notebook and ripped the page out, and folded it up and gave it to me. Could you open up the letter and just like read through the gibberish that it is? Okay, um, it starts with his personal information at the top. It says Justin Durning, it gives us a dress, it says Grace Daughter, it gives me exact

directions how to get there, it gives a cell phone number and his landline and his email address. Immediately it goes to the items he wants to give me of Jessica's, purses, Kate's paid Betsy Johnson, Mark Jacobs, Calvin Klein, Barbary, Chanel. Shoes, Christian Louis Vuitton, Jimmy Chou, Steve Madden, all kinds of shit. Jewelry, mid to high end costume jewelry. I have some friends sure that I just don't need dresser, cedar chest, hope chest. Questions, do you like to shoot guns? need dresser, cedar chest, hope chest, questions.

Do you like to shoot guns? Do you like knives, parentheses, tactical? Do you dive or want to learn? If you are your husband or end to any of this, please let me know. Southern heels, Nola, custom high end flip flops. He had mentioned that sitting at the bar, that his wife had this business that

was just sitting there and it was just a cash cow and I could have that too. So it was just all very confusing. Jessica V was eager to get out of there so she took the note Justin handed her and promptly left the restaurant for the night. Her shift and her brush with Justin had ended. But her story didn't end there. After leaving the restaurant, Jessica V. and Nate still reeling from the bizarre experience Google Justin's full name to see if they could find any more information about him. And in doing so, they quickly learned about his wife, Jessica's death.

This was a big story in New Orleans. We'd all heard about Jessica, but we didn't know the names, Jessica's or his. I immediately grew more concerned for his daughter. We've read the stories that he doesn't appear to be involved in, the search, or any other thing, and he's not the person contact. You know, this is our family that's in the media, not him. He had been speaking about weapons, and then the note had really odd things about weapons. Did I like to shoot guns, did I like tactical knives? Those things obviously concerned me a little more once I found out who he was. So that's kind of what kept nagging at me till the next day when I called the police

department to just turn the note in. I just assumed there'd be a homicide investigator working on this case. I thought I could just call and someone would come to the restaurant, pick up the note. I really thought that that would be it. That thought that would be all of my involvement. While this may have sounded easy and theory, it turned out to be a lot more complicated than Jessica V thought it would be. I said, we don't handle stuff like that. There isn't a homicideicide investigator working on.

We don't do that. You got to turn that into the corner. Are you afraid he's going to hurt himself or someone else? I'm not concerned he's going to hurt me, but himself or someone else, yes, I am concerned, highly concerned, and that there's a child in his care. That is what I'm calling about. And they explained to me that I would have to take the letter to the coroner's office. She told me that where that was and told me that they would be able to pick him up for a mental health hold. So Jessica V drives to the coroner's office

around 7 or 8 that night. She walks inside and meets a woman who she thinks is a receptionist, but is later told is one of the coroners. Jessica V. starts telling her about the exchange she'd had with Justin and was stunned by the woman's reaction. She said, oh my god. I probably shouldn't be telling you this, but she's still here.

He has not released her body to her family, so she's still here. So, and we're talking five months. So at that point, yes, she's been there five months already. This is January and this has been since August. So yes. So that was very distressing for me to hear. She started to prepare all this paperwork, making copies of the note, she wouldn't keep the note. She's filling out some other paperwork. She picks up the phone and calls a friend that she tells me, I'm calling my friend at the New Orleans Police Department. So I think this is kind of gonna be the end of my situation.

She starts talking to her friend and she says, Hey, I've got this girl in here who had an interaction with Justin Darding. So she's like telling her about the note. And she's kind of talking to her. But it's not in a, it's in a personal way. It's not in a, you're recounting this to a person who is taking official notes about this. She was reading parts of the note about the questions at the bottom about the tactical knives and the do you like to shoot guns and scuba dive,

mentioned it by name, and the person must have known who that was, and quickly I realized she's just like gossiping with a friend there maybe or just wanting to tell her, like she had wanted to tell me Jessica was still there. That was a little off-putting for me and distressing, to be honest. And to add to that, once the woman wrapped up the paperwork, she told Jessica V that since she's the person instigating the mental health hold, her name would be on the paperwork, allowing doctors, lawyers, or whoever

could be involved to see her name. And while this wasn't what Jessica V preferred, it didn't stop her. At that point, I didn't feel like I couldn't do it. I just didn't feel like I could not do it. I was very obviously distressed and I I mean I even said to her I was like that is so fucked up. I can't believe that's the process. And unfortunately for Jessica V, this wouldn't conclude what was turning out to be a complicated

and rather frustrating process. She prepared all this paperwork and made a copy of the note, gave me the note back, wouldn't keep it. Put all of them in an envelope with an official seal all over it and she leaned across the desk and handed it to me and she said, now you need to take this to whatever precinct it is, the Lakeview Police Department. You need to deliver this to them in the next 48 hours. I said, but I'm here to give it to you. You have made all this official. You have spoken to someone at the police department and told them this is happening.

And now I really don't understand why I have to do this. And now I'm really a little concerned that this is the procedure. The process itself caused Jessica V to have second thoughts as to whether or not the hassle was worth it. She took the rest of the day to think on it, but eventually she decided to go ahead and give the letter to police. Like at this point, I feel really bad if I don't see it through because the whole reason I got involved was this kid. And so, I mean, it's just typical in New Orleans shit.

This is not the right way for any of this to happen. Maybe this is ridiculous for me to be involved anyway, but at that point, my conscience wasn't gonna be all right. While speaking with the officer, Jessica V was very direct about her frustrations, how things were being handled. I said the same things to him that I said to the corner, this is just garbage that I have to be here.

This is insane to me that this is the process. I don't know anyone else that would do this. He was, you know, well, I mean, because you're worried about him, right? You're worried about his daughter and in other people's safety. I said, yes, yeah, I am. And 26 years of bartending, I've met a lot of people and had a lot of strange interactions and some scary interactions. And this was top of the list, bananas to me, this gas behavior. So he asked me could he say the note? Because the paperwork was sealed. He looked at it. He made a copy. He told me that.

We'll be at his house by seven to pick him up and take him in. Jessica V then left the station and that was the end of it. She also never saw or heard from Justin again. According to a source within the NOPD, Justin was in fact picked up and held on a mental health hold. After some digging, we found out that in Louisiana, a mental health hold request does in fact go through the coroner's office, not the police. Since our interview with her, she's been trying to get a copy of the paperwork she filed, and at the very least, a copy of the affidavit that she signed. But without success.

And it was the same outcome for us in our request for a copy of the paperwork. The coroner denied our request, citing, it's not considered a public record. And citing HIPAA laws, the NOPD also denied our request for any paperwork pertaining to the mental health hold, police pick up, or any supplemental or supporting materials, including, but not limited to, any signed requests or documents by Jessica V. It made me feel good that I didn't live in New Orleans anymore. I don't know that I would have participated if I still lived there.

I don't know that I would have gotten and started talking about the corner in the police department. I mean, that's who's supposed to help me if something happens to me. I don't have to be scared about it. I don't need their help. I don't need, I don't live there anymore. And I don't have to be scared about it. I don't need their help. I mean, I don't live there anymore.

And I don't have to worry about him turning up at my work, which that's a little bit still, a little bit fear to me than talking about the Court of Justice Police Department saying these things that I've said about them and my interactions with them, but they're true. That's what happened. And it was upsetting. It was super upsetting that these are the professionals

that were supposed to do something. I think the New Orleans police department needs to take accountability for a lot of missing persons and murder cases inside the city of New Orleans because this is not the only one. It's a very easy city to just forget about what happened yesterday and move on to tomorrow because we love to have a good time and love to just keep living life and we love to celebrate death and celebrate anything we can celebrate.

But we still need to hold people accountable so there's not evil walking around us. And that accountability applies to law enforcement, just as much as criminals and everyday citizens. Thankfully, there are some people out there who care and will go to great lengths to help someone that they don't even know. I mean, I got very invested in, there being some resolution for them, because it was heartbreaking to talk to Audra, my sister Jennifer, is my best friend in the world, and those were very emotional conversations we'd have with her. I felt very sorry for her. And I can't imagine being in there. She was, I would do anything. I would not stop if it were my sister. So I have a twin sister too. So I have two sisters and yeah and a half sister. I, any of them,

yeah I don't, I cannot, I cannot imagine. And again, my interactions with the corner and with the police were so unsettling and still zero confidence in me that I thought, well, these are the people that they have to help them. And it felt very inadequate and really sad. I just had a lump of heart broke for. Yeah, I just hope the family knows and everyone that's been involved that I'm really happy that they're speaking out and they're you know standing up for

someone who can't stand up for herself. She seems to have been a really kind person with a lot of people that love her. And regardless of what was going on our personal life or whatever struggles she was having, it just doesn't matter. Somebody killed her. And I think that's really cleared everybody. So you think you know sports? Points bet is the sportsbook for you, because we've got the features for true competitors, like live, same-game parlays.

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Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. Your business has grown fast, from opening your first location to planning an expansion in no time. And with your business platinum card from American Express, you can access spending power and payment flexibility to fuel your growth. Sarah, the contractor is here with the plans. American Express, don't do business without it. Terms and conditions apply visit mx.ca slash business platinum. From the outside looking in, it appeared like she was having some issues with both her health and her relationship with Justin. But Jessica wasn't the type to open up about her personal life. Even to those she was closest with.

However, at Thanksgiving, the year before she died, she did let Maria in on one thing, a secret part of her and Justin's life. She told me about it to some degree before they came to stay in my home. I just thought they were bored. I thought they were a couple in their 40s. Maybe the spark was gone. They spend too much time together. So maybe they were just trying to spice things up,

you know, I was like, you know, whatever. Do you? That's entertaining to you. I didn't know that it was really for the income, the way I think it turned out to be. I think it's part of what held her in place after she was ready to leave as she had this dirty secret.

It was a huge departure from who I knew her to be. She was a production of Resonate Recordings and Tenderfoot TV in conjunction with Caden's 13, written and hosted by me, Jessica Nol, and produced by Dennis Cooper and Todd McComas, with additional production by Whitney Bosarth. Executive producers are Dennis Cooper, Mark Minnery, Jacob Bosarth, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay. Our senior producer is John Street. Editing, mixing, mastering, and sound design by Caleb Melcher, Dayton Cole, and Pat Kicklider of the Resonate Recording's team.

If you have a podcast or are looking to start one, check us out at ResonateRecording's.com. Our theme song and original score is by Dirt Poor Robbins with additional scoring by Dayton Cole. Our cover art is by station 16. You can follow undetermined podcast on Facebook and on Twitter at undetermined pod. Show notes as well as bonus content can be found on our website undetermined pod.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please take time to subscribe, rate, and review. Your feedback is greatly appreciated. And finally, if you have any information about this case, call Crime Stoppers at 1-877-903-7867. You can't imagine what it's like until you're actually there.

My heart weight went from zero to 100. You heard the automatic weapons fire outside. A adrenaline rushes through your body, and you do what you've been trained to 100. We heard the automatic weapons fire outside. A adrenaline rushes through your body, and you do what you've been trained to do. He gets maybe 40 feet, and he collapses. You better have that pit in your stomach. Once you commit, it's game on. We started going down the road, and then I hear this.

Bravery. Baller. Determination. These are the stories of our heroes, like you've never heard them before. It felt like somebody had hit me with a baseball bat and a lower back. I opened up my eyes and I looked at him and he was like, I thought you were dead, son. And I was like, I did too. A new podcast from Tenderfoot TV and telegraph creative. I'm Remy Anleike, former Navy SEAL.

And this is Downrange. Downrange is available now. Listen for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Downrange is available now. Listen for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.