Up and Vanished - Case Evidence 02.06.17

Episode Date: February 7, 2017

Take a deeper look at the evidence as experts discuss new developments in the case. We go through old news transcripts to learn more about the weekend of October 22nd 2005. Maurice takes calls from the voicemail line. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone else close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. There's very little physical evidence in this case, so we have to rely hard on other people's testimony. Over the years other people's testimony. Over the years, people's stories tend to change, and they begin remembering things a little different. Eleven years later, this can become really troublesome, especially when you're trying to piece together all the facts. Today we'll be exploring old news transcripts, back in 2005 and 2006, with interviews from people in this case.

2005, and 2006, with interviews from people in this case. Today we're looking at four different interviews. Tara's mother, Tara's sister, Troy Davis, the man who had the barbecue, and Tara's best friend. We're going to explore what these people said 11 years ago, to see if we can help paint a clearer picture of what happened that weekend. This is Case Evidence. is case evidence. Our first interview is from 2006 with Troy Davis and Greta Van Susteren. As a reminder, Troy Davis held the barbecue that night. This is what was said.

Van Susteren asked Troy, Troy, how long have you known Tara? Davis replied, I've known her for eight years. Van Susteren stated, on the night of October 22nd, Did she go to a dinner at your home? Davis replied, Yes, she did. Van Susteren questioned, Is that unusual? Davis replied, No, it's not. She came by often and she ate with us on a regular basis on the weekend. Van Susteren then asked, Was there any special occasion for that Saturday night? Davis replied, No, no, there was

not. Van Susteren said, how many people were over that night? Davis replied, there was about eight, eight folks when she arrived. Search underway for missing woman, Fox News Network, November 7th, 2005, Monday. Van Susteren asked Davis, Do you remember what time Tara arrived? Davis said, around, well, between 8 and 8.30. Van Susteren said, Do you remember how she was dressed? Davis replied, Yes. She was dressed in a pair of jeans, a beige shirt,

very distinct pair of shoes. I made a comment about those shoes that night. And she just came back from a beauty pageant. Van Susteren questioned, how long did she stay at your house that evening? Davis replied, she left around 11 o'clock. Van Susteren said, do you know since you drove over here tonight from your home, how long did it take you to get over here tonight? Davis said, About two minutes.

Van Susteren then said, Okay. So we expect that if she left your house about 11 o'clock, she could have been home by 11.02. Davis said, That's right. Van Susteren then questioned, Do you know if she drove her own car? Davis said she did drive her own car. Van Susteren said, And then the night at the party, any who's there besides your family?

Davis said, We had the cross the street neighbors. We also had some neighbors who live about three blocks from here. And my children were there. Van Susteren said, All right. Were these more your friends than her friends? Davis said,

Yes. Van Susteren asked, Did, were these more your friends than her friends? Davis said yes. Van Sustran asked, did she say anything unusual that night? Davis said no, she did not. Tara was, she was very upbeat that night actually. Van Sustran questioned, everything seemed normal? Davis replied, everything was normal. Van Susteren then questioned, did she happen to mention how she intended to spend the next day Sunday, for instance? Davis said no, she did not. She did not say what she was going to do the next day. Van Susteren asked, did she mention any boyfriends or ex-boyfriends or anyone giving her a hard time? Davis said no, actually she did not mention her ex-boyfriend that night, other than that she had visited him a couple weeks ago

and that she was moving on. Van Susteren then said, have you ever heard of anyone at all giving her any trouble? Davis then said, I've heard of one person, but I don't know any details about it, Greta. Van Susteren then stated, and that's the former student we've talked about. Is she likely, I know this is a guess, is she likely to open the door to a stranger at her house? I mean, you know, in your opinion. I know this is a little wild. Davis replied, no, I do not think she would. This next interview is with Nancy Grace and Faye Grinstead,

Tara's mother, back in 2005. Grace said, only thing missing is Tara. Faye Grinstead, Tara's mother, stated, Yes, it is. It's very, very strange. Grace replied, This is what she collected? Grinstead said, Yes, she collected Barbie dolls. She did.

And a lot of them are historical. As you can see this one. These are old, you know. Grace asked, Did she play guitar? Grinstead said, yes, she did, and she sang too. Grace said, is this the lamp? Grinstead replied, yes. Grace replied, I thought it was cracked. No, I thought it was cracked. Grinstead replied, I beg your pardon? Grace had said, I thought the lamp was broken. Grinstead said it was.

Grace stated, oh, I see. It is broken. Yes, up under here. And this was down on the floor? And the bed was made. Grinstead replied, no, the bed was... They told me the bed was not made. Like she had just gone to bed, maybe. Grace said, really?

Grinstead said, Tara slept with like pillows on the side of her, you know. Grace replied, right. Grinstead said she slept with several pillows, and that's what I was told, like she had possibly laid down and gone to bed. That's why I wondered if somebody called her. Grace said, where's the phone? Grinstead replied, it always was right here. I guess the GBI took it, but it's normally on her bed. It's normally right up here. Grace replied, it feels like she's going to walk in at any minute.

Grinstead said, I know. Grace stated, I'm just totally, totally overwhelmed and so very, very grateful that so many people are working so hard to find her. You know, when we looked at her house today, everything was in perfect order. It was as if at some moment she was going to come right back through the door. What happened that day, that Saturday? Grinstead replied, I have no idea what happened. Grace said, in your life, did you hear from her? What was she doing? Grinstead replied, I have no idea what happened. Grace said, In your life, did you hear from her?

What was she doing? Grinstead said, No, she had told me she would be tied up working with the girls, getting ready for the beauty pageant, and so I did not talk to her that day. Grace replied, Was she to visit you on Sunday? Grinstead said, She did a lot of times, yes. Grace then asked, was she supposed to visit that Sunday? Grinstead replied she had talked about it. She was to let me know because she didn't know,

since she was tied up on Saturday working with the girls. She didn't know if she would have time to come because she had studying to do. Grace asked, when you say she had studying to do, what was she studying? Grinstead said, on her graduate school. Grace replied, what was the degree she was seeking? Grinstead replied, she was getting her specialist degree. Grace then asked, that Sunday when you thought she was coming over to visit you, you're in Hawkinsville, right?

Grinstead said, yes. Grace asked, how far is that from Osceola? Grinstead replied, it's about an hour's drive. Grace then asked, when do you start becoming suspicious? Grinstead replied, well, I started calling her that afternoon and she did not answer the phone. And I didn't think too much about it at first, but she never called me back. I left her a message and she didn't call me back about it at first, but she never called me back. I left her a message, and she didn't call me back

because I'd called both phones. But I really didn't start to get worried until later on in the late afternoon, and when she had not called me back, I began to get concerned then. Grace asked, did you call the neighbors? Grinstead replied, I did not call the neighbors until very late Sunday night.

Grace said, so you did call Sunday night? Grinstead said, yes, Sunday night. Grinstead then stated, I did not call her Sunday night. Grace said, so you did call Sunday night? Grinstead said, yes, Sunday night. Grinstead then stated, I did not call her Saturday night. It was very late, say 1230 or 1. I did call the neighbors to see if a car was home or if anything looked unusual. Grace then asked, what did they say? Grinstead then said, they didn't seem to think anything looked unusual. That the car was there. They had been gone all day and didn't get back until late. But they said the car was there.

Nothing looked unusual. Grace then asked, and the light was on in her computer room? Grinstead said, yes, some type of dim light was on in there. Grace replied, from the computer only? Grinstead replied, could have been. This next interview is with Tara's sister, Anita Gaddis,

again on the Nancy Grace Show. Anita Gaddis, Tara's sister, said, the car being there, the car being unlocked. She never left her car unlocked. A hundred dollars cash left, Grinstead

said, in the car? Gaddis said, yes, in the car, broken lamp by her bedside table that we know was not broken the day before. The girl said there was no incident. She always turned her light on, let her neighbors know. The lamp was on Friday night, never came back on. Grace then asked, what can you tell me about the night she went missing, Anita? She'd helped some girls that afternoon work on their hair and makeup for the beauty pageant. She went to the beauty pageant, she went to a local superintendent's house for dinner, watched a football game. We assumed she went back home, and after that, we did not know. Grace said, what, if anything, was unusual about her home, Anita?

Gaddis replied, well, her car was left unlocked. Tara never leaves her car unlocked when she's at home. Her cell phone was in the charger. Her door was locked, but her keys and her purse were missing. Grace said, keys and purse missing. I understood that there was a radio clock by her bed on the floor. Gattis responded, that's correct. The GBI found it under the bed when they were looking for evidence. And there was also a broken lamp on her bedside table.

Grace then stated, now Anita, the clock, would she have left it that way? I mean, if I came home tonight and I saw my clock by the bed laying on the floor, I would turn around and walk out of that apartment because that would be wrong. Would she have left it that way? Gaddis replied, I don't think so because the clock is about six hours off in time. Grace replied, I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you. Repeat? Gaddis said, the clock, the time is about six hours off, which is another confusing fact. Gattis stated all of her clothes were back at home, so she did not go back home and change clothes. Grace then asked, now there was something about a jack-o'-lantern on the front porch. Gattis said, right, Tara's house was decorated really

cute for Halloween. The jack-o'-lantern was still plugged in, and it was lit up. Nancy said, you should have seen this place. It was perfectly in order, but when the cops came, they found one of her beautiful necklaces on the floor of the bedroom. They found her lamp knocked over and broken. And they found these shoes laying out on the floor, the clothes she had worn that evening, still lying out. That is just not like this girl. shoes laying out on the floor, the clothes she had worn that evening, still lying out.

That is just not like this girl. This last interview I'm going to play you is with Tara's best friend, Maria, again on The Nancy Grace Show. Nancy asked, how long have you known Tara? Maria Hewlett, friend of Tara Grinstead, replied, Probably 15 years. Grace then said, And that morning I knew she went to a cookout at a school superintendent's house the evening before. She had been helping younger girls get ready for a local pageant.

She goes to the cookout, leaves, I think around 11pm or so to drive back home. You went to her home the next morning, Sunday morning, correct? Hewlett replied, no, Monday morning. Grace said, excuse me, Monday morning, what did you see? Hewlett replied, I immediately went into the house. Grace said, well, why did you go there? Hewlett said I had been, we had been looking for her, her mother and I. And then so I went down there that morning, knowing that the police were on their way, and I went in. The police were outside. Well, excuse me.

Grace said, how did you get in? Hewlett replied the detective was outside by her car. Her door was unlocked. Grace said her door was unlocked. Hewlett replied uh-huh. Grace said okay go ahead. Hewlett replied yes I walked in the door looked where her shoes would usually be you know to see if she had hurried out the door. Maybe looking around to see if anything had fallen off the tables. She had hurried out the door, maybe looking around to see if anything had fallen off the tables. If there looked like having a struggle, you know. I immediately knew that something had to have been wrong for her to not shown up at work.

Not to call home. There had to have been something wrong. Gray said, what did you see in the bedroom? Hewlett replied, the bedroom, there were clothes on the floor, jewelry on the floor. Her shoes were on the floor and they were really nice shoes and she's very peculiar about her clothes, her clothing and shoes. They were on the floor. There were things packed, stacked up on her next to the bed. Her bed had been slept in, it looked like to me. You know, her pillows were arranged like she sleeps. I immediately thought that she had been in the bed at some point. You know, she had been there at night. I knew that the last time that anybody

had talked to her was Saturday night. Grace said, now, what about the clock radio in the lamp? Hewlett replied, I didn't see the clock. That was later on, when I went back the second time. Grace said, so the phone, the cell phone was there. Would she ever have left without her cell phone? Hewlett replied, I feel like she would have. If she didn't want to be bothered. If she had gone with someone who she knew, who she trusted, who she didn't want to be bothered by anybody else. Think of the last time you bought something to wear, something to decorate your house,

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I'm going to have Maurice answer some of your voicemail questions. If you haven't called the voicemail line yet and you'd like to, the number is 770-545-6411. I'll let Maurice take it from here. Hi, this is Courtney calling from Loveland, Colorado. And this question is more for Dr. Godwin. And since we are between episodes with some breaks in between, I thought it might be a good time to ask this. My question is related to how you got involved with Tara's case. What was that initial experience like? What were you apprehensive about and what ended up intriguing you to take it on?

Also, sometimes you hear about some pushback from law enforcement and private investigators. Can you share some of your experiences regarding this and that relationship that investigators often have with law enforcement? But anyway, keep up the good work, and I look forward to hearing more. Thank you, Courtney, from Colorado. A good question. Originally, I was contacted by a terrorist sister in the first part of February of 2006. I was real busy at that time, so actually I originally turned down the case. Then I was contacted about the end of February again and asked if I would reconsider and I did.

I decided to go ahead and look at the case and try to work it and do the best I can. Then I went down to Acilla several times. The first time I was down there, I did, both times I met resistance from some of the people and also law enforcement, mainly local law enforcement and some of the GBI. I received a threatening phone call at my home here after I had got back from one of those trips down there. And then when I was staying in the RV park outside of Osceola, I had a scary incident there with a truck about 3 o'clock in the morning. So there's been some pressure. about three o'clock in the morning so there there's been some pressure um uh one of the main things is um i was not able to get my hands on some documents that were promised to me uh which

you know sort of hindered hindered what i was able to do i'm not sure that a lot of the all the information that could have been told to me was told to me. So I've had to fight, struggle, crawl for the last 10 and a half years to try to work this, get through this. I know that when I found those things in Tara's house, some of the what I call potential evidence, I know that it took a couple of days for the gbi to ever come down there and collect the the items you also you have to remember that you know in 06 uh 06 07 08 this was a very very hot case and it tapered off with the years and everything and i mean it's totally different

now in in 017 um than it is even with the, it's totally different than it was back in 06. I mean, it was a very hot-button issue down there. So people, attitudes, and everything were a lot different then than they are now. But it's been a major struggle. I probably received, in the 10 and a half years over 400 plus tips. Hi, I've been listening to your podcast. I think you do a really great and thorough job of detailing a really complex and frustrating case. So my thoughts were about Snapdragon location. There are a lot of white rabbits,

which Maurice had said in this case, but the ones stand out to me is the cadaver dog and its owner. To me, you have firsthand verification of somebody who was there and that something was discovered and found and that the police and the FBI have that evidence. So my question is just really how much effort is being put into that one heavy fact.

Snapdragon is an interesting piece of information and event and also sort of a mystery, because Snapdragon occurred about eight days after terror went missing so the question one would have to ask is why would somebody draw attention to the area when there was no attention focused on snapdragon road after terror went missing until the fire so that's a question that has to be answered it's my understanding that um potential evidence was submitted to the gbi that was found by the dog handler and the cadaver dog that evidence or potential evidence was analyzed i think by the fbi crime lab it's my understanding that it never linked Tara to the fire. There was no evidence to linking Tara that we know of to the fire.

Now, that does not mean that it's not tied to this or linked to this, but I do not think that the GBI has any bona fide forensic evidence linking Tara to the Snapdragon fire. I think they have some suspicions, but I don't think they're able to prove it. There were some searches that were supposed to start there, and then Tim Miller with Echo Search, Texas Echo Search, and the Sheriff's Department got an anonymous call. They were drawn over to Ben Hill County and really never really finished that area. I do know that the pond behind Snapdragon was searched because I was there when it was searched.

But, you know, Snapdragon, I guess we won't ever know until the case is ever solved and if somebody reveals that it is linked or not. Hi, my name is Raven. I'm calling from California. I'm really enjoying the podcast. I'm wondering if the FBI was ever involved in the investigation of Tara, since it seems that local police and even the GBI seem to have a lot of connections to the people involved in the case. So I'm wondering if anyone outside of Georgia investigated this missing persons case. To my knowledge, the FBI has never been involved in this case. No one, no law enforcement

from the state outside the state of Georgia has ever been involved in this case. FBI has to be asked to come in. Law enforcement has jurisdiction. Now, the original jurisdiction was with the Asila PD, and then Asila chief Hancock asked the GBI to come in. So the GBI runs this case, and they've always run this case. So no, the FBI has never been involved. They may have looked at something, potential evidence or something from the crime scene, but that's the FBI crime lab, not FBI agents. Hi, my name is Callie. I'm a listener from Chicago.

I was just wondering, do we think that there's any way George Harrison could have been the student that Payne's grandmother's friend remembered hearing that Tara went to visit the night she disappeared? And if so, is there any way that we could ask her about that? Because she said she might be able to remember the name if somebody said it to her. Thank you. No, I do not believe that the person that was using

the fake Facebook accounts of George Harrison was ever a student of Tara Grinstead. So the answer to your question is no, I don't think that he was ever a student. Harrison was ever a student of Tara's. This episode is brought to you by Tresemme. Want silky smooth hair that's still full of natural movement? The Tresemme Keratin Smooth Weightless Collection is your simple solution. This new collection features a wide range of products from nourishing shampoo and conditioner to lightweight heat protectants and a silky smooth serum for a sleek finish. Wave goodbye to frizz and say hello to three days of smooth hair with the Tresemme Keratin Smooth Weightless Collection. Visit Tresemme.com to learn more.

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Hey, this is Patrick Nolan in Arkansas. And my wife and I, Randy and I, have been binging on this for the last couple of days. And one thing that stands out in my mind is the fact that her car seat had been scooted back. And I don't know how tall she is, Tara is, but most people that drive their car leave their car seat in the same position all the time. And it's just bothered me the entire thing that the seat was scooted back. You know, whenever I go into my vehicle, the oil changed or get it worked on. When I get in, it's noticeably scooted back when I scoot it up.

So I think an individual generally leaves it in the same position. The problem is we can't determine where her normal seat position is, but I wish someone could look into that. How tall was she? Tara was about 5'3", and I'm not sure when the seat was noticed to be pushed back, if it was that Monday or if it was Tuesday, because on Wednesday, Joe, the neighbor, had the car detailed and washed.

So I do not know if the seat was noticeable after he did that or if it was that Monday. That would make a difference. This is Colin from Arlington, Virginia. I absolutely love you. So just something got to my thought about Keith Dykes and Tara's mom asking Keith to go check on Tara that Saturday night. I was wondering where that information came from

and possibly how credible it could be. Stories can always change. You know, maybe, and then to tie this together, you were talking to the psychologist about the actual people who committed the crime kind of putting themselves in the story and in the picture. You know, could it be possible that Heath Dykes actually called Tara's mom

and said he was worried about her and offered to go? Then that way it looks like, you know, it kind of creates not necessarily an alibi, but puts him out of the picture, but also in the picture, if you know what I mean. but also in the picture, if you know what I mean. In an interview that Ms. Fay did with Nancy Grace in January 2006, Nancy asked her, was she to visit you on that Sunday? Fay said she had talked about it. She was going to let me know because she didn't know since she was tied up on Saturday with the girls and she didn't know if she would have time to come because she had studying to do and

then she goes on to ask her about her becoming worried about her and she started saying she called her on during the daytime Sunday and didn't get an answer. And she said, I didn't think much about it at first, but she never called me back. But I really didn't start to get worried until later in the afternoon. And when she had not called me back, I began to get concerned then. Nancy asked her, did you call the neighbors? Ms. Fay said, I did not call her Saturday night. It was late, very late, maybe 2, 1230 or 130. That would be Sunday, actually Monday morning, when I called the neighbors to see if a car was home or if anything

looked unusual. And Nancy asked her, what did they say? And Ms. Faye said that they didn't seem to think anything looked unusual, that the car was there, that they had been gone all day and didn't seem to think anything looked unusual that the car was there that they had been gone all day and didn't get back until late but they said the car was there nothing looked unusual we don't have access to the phone records we really don't know who called uh first but it's always been said that you know miss faye called he thought to go over and check on her hi this, this is Lindsay listening from Naples, Florida. This is my favorite podcast to listen to, so keep up the good work. My question is regarding Dyke's wife. We haven't really heard much about her. Was there ever any kind of interview done with her, or was she ever investigated, or have you tried to

make contact with her at all to my knowledge she's never made a public statement about this case in 11 years it's my understanding she was he's alibi that's there tonight you have to remember and a lot of people tend to forget this the Tara Grinstead case is the largest case file in Georgia history. So all these people were interviewed probably a couple of times or more. So she's no doubt been interviewed. But anything else, it's hard to say because she's never gone on record in the media or made a statement or anything.

My name is Jessica. I'm from Boston. I love your podcast. I've been listening to it. Great job. One thing I wanted to know if you had asked anybody about or if you had access to, it says that all of those messages, like 20-something messages on Tara's voicemail, I was just wondering if you had heard what the nature of those voicemails were

because you brought up in one of the episodes, like if he had anything to do with her disappearance, why would he leave all these voicemails? Like, you know, she's not there. And then in my head, I'm like, well, maybe he, maybe that was like tactical. Like he did that to kind of throw everyone off of his tracks if he did have something to do with it

and maybe the nature of the voicemails themselves would kind of hint at that like you could I don't know maybe see if there was sincerity in his voice like was he genuinely looking for her or not.

I can't remember if you've addressed that, if they're deleted by now, or I just wanted to call and ask. Your question in reference to the type of messages that he thought slipped on Tara's phone, it's my understanding that there was some hang-ups and the general nature of some of the messages was like being worried or concerned. A lot of people would consider the number of messages, even more than four or five, which it was, would be sort of unusual. sort of unusual. But, you know, what's more unusual is to call that many times

to express the worry and concern. Then you get an opportunity to be at the house Sunday night and you do nothing other than leave a business card. Thanks for listening, guys. As a reminder, episode 13 will come out on February 27th.

But make sure you stay tuned. We have tons of cool bonus content coming out in between then. There's only 10 days left on the Kickstarter campaign for Season 2. To pledge a donation for Season 2, just go to UAVSeason2.com. UAVSeason2.com. uavseason2.com. Thanks, guys. I'll see you next week.