Up and Vanished - S1E10: George Harrison

Episode Date: January 3, 2017

We dive deeper into the latex glove and a new witness of the black truck emerges. Plus, who is George Harrison?  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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from tenderfoot tv in atlanta this is up and vanished the investigation of tara grinstead i'm your host pain lindsey at the end of Tara Grinstead. I'm your host, Payne Lindsey. At the end of the last episode, I talked to one of Tara's best friends. She wished not to be named, so I'll refer to her as Mandy. On that Monday morning when Tara was first reported missing, Mandy came to her house when the police were there to see if she could help figure out what was going on. She told me that she saw the latex glove that morning in Tara's front yard and that it was blue. Tara's sister, Anita, in a previous news interview, also said the glove was

blue. This completely contradicted what I had been told by both the Osceola police chief and Dr. Godwin, who both claimed the glove was white. Tara's friend, Mandy, also said that three days later, the glove was sitting on a desk at the police station in a brown paper bag, unsealed. Here's what else Mandy told me about that morning. It's just stupid, too. But on the way down there, I remember thinking, okay, I've watched CSI. Okay, now what am I going to be looking at? I mean, that's stupid.

But that's how I was thinking. Like, okay. So I took her phone. Yeah, I know. What can I look for? And when I went back in after they had roped it off and the family, you know, we were able to go in, her bed had been made. Somebody made up her bed. Like, her bed was not made.

Her bed was where two pillows were if she had been sleeping. I mean, why would they make the bed? Who made the bed? Nobody could ever tell me who made the bed. Listen to this. She had a cat that was inside the house and would go in and out sometimes. The cat was in the house. Well, I don't know if the cat had come in and out of the house or whatever, but I'm not kidding you.

The litter box was completely clean, like just been swept, you know, just been raked. And to me, that's weird because even if that cat had been coming in and out of the house all day, it still seems like to me it would have been, had some in there. Okay, why would somebody clean the litter box? Because if she'd been missing since she hadn't been seen since Saturday night, then there's no way that cat, if that cat had been in there some, that cat would have gone to the bathroom. I mean, cats go a lot. If there was so much in and out of that place, like, they didn't take it serious.

In terms of physical evidence in this case, the latex glove is without a doubt the biggest thing investigators found. But all this confusion over the color and the possibility of it sitting on the desk for three days unsealed raises some big questions in my opinion. Just how reliable is this glove? Could it have been tampered with? And if they ever did get a DNA match on the glove, would it still hold up in court? I decided to call an expert to weigh in on this. Colin Miller is a professor of law at the University of South Carolina.

He's also one of the hosts on the popular podcast series Undisclosed. He's also an avid listener of Up and Vanished, and I felt we could learn a lot from his input. Before a party can admit any piece of evidence at trial, they have to authenticate it, which means they have to establish the evidence is what they claim it to be. So if they're saying, this is the bag of drugs we took from the suspect, or this is a knife we seized from his home, you have to authenticate that. And so one component of authentication is chain of custody. And that's essentially accounting for each set of hands that handled the evidence between seizure and trial. And the point of that is to establish that this

is the same piece of evidence in substantially the same condition, as opposed to either another piece of evidence that was mistaken for this piece of evidence, or the same piece of evidence in substantially the same condition as opposed to either another piece of evidence that was mistaken for this piece of evidence or the same piece of evidence in an altered or contaminated condition. And so in Georgia, for instance, the test is, do we have reasonable assurance that this is the same item in substantially the same condition? And the way it works is this. If you have minor gaps or problems in the chain of custody, that's not going to prevent the evidence from being admissible, but it can be weighed by the jury as evidence of possible issues. If we have major gaps or issues in the chain of custody, though, that's going to prevent the admissibility of the evidence at all. When an investigator finds a piece of physical evidence at a crime scene that needs to be tested,

what is the proper protocol and procedure from that point forward to assure that it's done the right way? Yeah, and so the way it works with chain of custody is that investigator would collect that evidence, put it in a sealed container, and they would attach what's known as a chain of custody form. And so on this form, that investigator would write their name, the date and time of collection, and there's a line that usually says collected by, and that person who collected the evidence would put their name there, and they would put the reason why they collected the evidence, like this is a glove we found at the crime scene. And then essentially, as each person gets that piece of evidence, like a forensic chemist to test it, they're going to write their name and the date and time of receipt on the receive by line and so on and so forth. Each set of hands that handles the evidence,

they essentially sign off on it, put the date and time so we ensure that we know this is the same piece of evidence from point A to point Z. Well, in Tara's case, there were several witnesses that told me they saw the latex glove sitting on a police officer's desk three days later, unsealed in a brown paper bag. If that were in fact true, how would that play a role in prosecution or defense later on in this case? Yeah, that probably goes along the lines of what I would call a minor gap in the chain of custody. And there's actually a case at the 11th Circuit, and that is the federal judicial circuit that covers Georgia. It's United States v. Scott. And that was a case where they seized drugs and guns from the defendant's apartment,

and they kept it unsealed in an evidence vault for between one day and more than a month. And the defendant objected and said, like a chain of custody. And what the court said was, you did present evidence. It was unsealed for a significant amount of time, but you didn't present any evidence of any alteration or tampering. And so barring that, the evidence comes in. It's a problem with the chain of custody that it was unsealed, but it's not fatal. And of course, you could and did argue to the jury that this was a problem and it could have led to contamination.

But in the absence of, in your case, in the Tara Grimstad case, or in this case, any specific evidence of tampering, that's just something the jury would weigh in the weight of the evidence. So if this case went to trial and there was a positive match based upon the testing of the glove, that would likely go to the jury. And of course, the defense could argue, well, this was unsealed. It was in a paper bag for a few days. In Tara's case, based on the information that I provided you and what you may have learned or heard in the podcast about the confusion of the glove's color, it sitting on the desk, in your opinion, is this glove a reliable piece of evidence? I think that's once again something where the court would find it's still admissible any testing done on the glove and the defense could challenge it based upon it sitting on the desk. But probably that wouldn't lead to too much doubt in the jury's mind. In terms of the

confusion over the color, that, I think the defense there and a potential prosecution would have a stronger case to say, look, this confusion over the color means we don't know if this is even the same glove, and that undermines any credibility the state's case has. So that might be a stronger argument in terms of the color as opposed to it sitting on the desk. What I've been told is from two different people that they saw the glove that morning and it was blue. I talked to the police chief, Billy Hancock. He said it's white. Maurice Godwin says it's white. Tara's sister and her best friend both saying it's blue. That to me, if true, would be a big deal, I feel like. Yeah, and it's not something like a blue-green difference where you could say, well, people see things slightly differently or they could be colorblind.

Blue versus white is a fairly stark difference. And so I think exactly the defense in a potential prosecution would say, this really undermines any faith that we have that this is the same glove, and really you can't rely upon it in finding guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Think of the last time you bought something to wear, something to decorate your house, something for your family or friends. What if each time you made a purchase, you got a little something back?

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We'll be right back. November 8th, 2005, Nancy Grace interviewed a man named Tim Sturrock, a reporter from Macon, Georgia, who had traveled to Osceola to get the latest updates. Here's the transcript from that interview. Nancy, what can you tell me tonight, Tim, about a latex glove reportedly found on day one by the police in her front yard? Tim replied, well, Osceola Police Chief Billy Hancock told me that they found a latex glove outside of her house shortly after she was reported missing. They handed it over to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation for testing. They're going to see if they can find any fingerprints. They're going to do some DNA testing and that could take weeks. At this point, they don't really know if it had anything to do with this or not.

Nancy stated it keeps being referred to as a latex glove. A latex glove. My first question was, you mean a rubber glove you wash dishes with? Or a latex glove that you perform surgery with? Which one is it, Tim? Tim replied, it wasn't a dishwashing glove. It was more the type of glove that you'd be familiar with at like a doctor's office. Nancy Grace then spoke to Tara's sister, Anita Gaddis, about the glove. Anita replied,

replied, well, I was actually told about the glove from day one. It's a type that paramedics, police officers, that type of glove that they routinely keep. So I've been very, very anxious to hear some results from this testing on this, because this is not something that we just have around our homes. Nancy stated, well, I got to tell you something, Anita. I've never woken up with a latex glove laying outside my door, or in the front yard, or in the backyard, or in the driveway. And at first, my question was, was it the type you wash dishes with? But that's commonly called a rubber glove. This is a latex glove. I don't like this about the latex glove. Anita said, I do not either.

My husband is a physician, and I'm the lab manager, and I wear latex gloves every day at work, but you do not pick them up at the grocery store. It's not something that normal people have. On January 13, 2006, a little less than two months after Tara's disappearance, Nancy interviewed Tara's neighbor, Joe Poitier. During the interview, Joe revealed a very crucial piece of information, something I never knew, and something I've never heard discussed before. Did you notice anything unusual the night she went missing? Joe replied, Nancy, I was gone all morning.

I returned home for lunch. And there was a lot of girls in and out of Tara's house. I knew she was fixing their makeup. As a matter of fact, she was doing my granddaughter's, who was nine years old, being in the first pageant she'd ever been in. Tara was helping her out. So I walked over to see how she had fixed my granddaughter up. And of course, Tara was real proud of what she had done for Mary Beth. But that was the last time I saw Tara. Nancy said, Joe, your yard was perfect. It looked like it was

a beautiful home, as did Tara Grinstead's. You two often worked in the arts together. Now, would it have been like her to have a latex glove found in her front yard? Joe replied, I would not think so, Nancy. After I had called the local police when we couldn't find Tara in the house that Monday morning, I walked back to the front porch talking to the chief of police on my cell phone.

And that's when I spied the latex glove. It was actually before the police got there. The narrative that I've always known is that Tara didn't show up for school that morning, the Osceola police were notified, and they were the first to arrive to her house. But that wasn't true. Joe, Tara's neighbor, he was the first person at her house.

And he also was the first person to find the latex glove, all before police got there. I didn't want to overanalyze this, but it seemed like a really big deal. The whole narrative in my head for Monday morning completely changed. I met with Maurice to talk about this. Well, it initially brought the tension of something wrong. She didn't show up in her classroom. And somebody from school and Deanna Harper went to the house. And who's Deanna Harper?

Marcus' stepmother. She worked in the Board of Education. There were several people from her school came to her house looking for her. And Joe let himself and those two other people into the house. I found that sort of odd, too. Marcus Harper's stepmom, Deanna Harper, worked in the Board of Education of Irwin County. And when she heard Tara didn't show up for work, Deanna and some people from school drove to her house. One important thing to note, Deanna should not be confused with Marcus Harper's biological mother, Nancy,

who Tara was emailing. Deanna should not be confused with Marcus Harper's biological mother, Nancy, who Tara was emailing. Deanna was his stepmom. Joe, the next door neighbor, had a spare key to Tara's house, and he let Deanna and the other people from school inside her house that morning. Anything else weird to you about Joe being there that morning? It just seems like he was first on the scene. Oh, he was now. He found the glove. glove he did then he was on the phone with the police which was billy hancock he found a glove but you know i was told that he picked it up somebody told him put it down if joe touched the glove then well the transference of um if it was just minor he wouldn't leave any um skin cells no if if it was just minor, it wasn't. Well, he was swabbed. All of them were swabbed.

But here's the thing about if all of Saturday night and then in the wee hours of Sunday morning, her car was home and you never saw the light on at all. Never saw the light on at all. The car was home. What I'm just saying is all that darkness, all that hours, all that through Sunday morning when it was still dark stuff out there, her car was home, but there was never any light. They never saw any light. But that one particular time never raised any suspicion. On April 18, 2006, the Tifton Gazette newspaper released an article about a new witness in the Tara Grinstead case.

The article states, Tara Grinstead case. The article states, the sister of Tara Grinstead believes that a newly discovered witness could shed light on the teacher's October 2005 disappearance, and her sister Anita Gaddis believes that a man spotted at the teacher's home the following night might have had a hand in the disappearance. Gaddis said that the witness tells a story that could point authorities in the direction of Grinstead's kidnapper or killer. The witness lived out of town and visited Grinstead's neighbors on October 23rd, Gaddis said. She said that between 8 and 10 that night, he spotted a man parked in Grinstead's yard in a black 1990s model truck. He described a man in his late 20s or early 30s. She said the witness spoke to the man in the truck. He made a verbal contact

with him, said Gaddis. The witness said they were very hostile words. She said that there have been leads in tracking down the black truck driven by the suspicious man. When asked why the man did not come forward with the information previously, she said it could have been that he thought the information was insignificant or that he was afraid. There is a fear factor involved with this case. She said that there is an environment of fear, because so many people involved with a case wear badges. For just $4.99, you can get a Subway 6-inch Black Forest ham sub made with our new fresh sliced deli.

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came to dominate the porn world, only to shatter their cheeky reputation in a massive scandal. The Pornhub Empire is a new season of Understood from the CBC. The Pornhub Empire. Understood. Available now on Spotify. Since the first time I met with Dr. Godwin about this case, he's told me about this mysterious black truck. We heard several episodes back, someone described her friend who was almost ran over by a speeding black truck on the night Tara disappeared. In 06,

Godwin found another witness, a young kid. He also claimed to have seen the man inside the truck, but when police went to interview him, he got scared and clammed up and never spoke about the black truck again. I spent months trying to find this kid, but I never had any luck. Finally, just this past week, I was able to get a hold of him.

But that little black truck, it was like a Ford Ranger. And it had deep, deep prone wheels in it. Man, they sort of stood out like street tires. Was it for sure black or was it just dark? It was for sure black. What time of day did you see it? Oh, late afternoon, during the weekend. The sun was going down, but it was daylight still.

It would be about an hour or so before it would go down. It was in her yard. I was at a devotional house with a friend of mine. He lived right next door to her. I read somewhere that there was somebody in the car who may have talked to you or something. Is that true? No, sir. Did you ever get a look at the driver

at all? No, sir. So you never saw anybody in the car at all or no one ever talked to you or anything? Uh-uh. I read somewhere that somebody saw somebody inside the truck and they said something to him and it was rude or something.

It wouldn't be. Then who was it? I had spent months trying to find this guy, but I felt like I didn't learn anything. I remember the police scared him off the first time

and he clammed up. Was he doing the same thing now? I remembered him saying he was going to a friend's house, a friend named Moshe. I was headed to Moshe's house, a friend of mine. He may have. You'd have to talk to him about it.

They scared to talk about it. It was the last time we were cooperating and doing like we were supposed to they pissed Tess Tess was hot for marijuana and they sent him to jail talking about that black truck that was about the third time they questioned us about it and uh she lived right next door to him

where he lived at and I always hung out over there we were talking about the truck and the rims and all that. And they might have seen somebody on his part. They started fist testing.

Like devils. So they just out of nowhere just did a drug test? Yeah. He was on probation and they got him. Okay, so you think that Moshe saw the guy in the black truck? Yeah, so he could describe it for you. How do I get a hold of Moshe? Do you know? I sure don't. I haven't heard from him in quite a while, and that's unusual.

That's very unusual. So there was still hope, it seemed. But only if I could track down Moshe. I haven't had luck yet. He seemed to be as much off the map as the other kid was. But I'll keep searching until I find him. And if what he told me was true, maybe we could finally get a description of this man.

The man inside the black truck. But in the meantime, among the people that we do know in this case, who drove a black truck? I asked Maurice this question. Of the people that we know in this case, who drove a black truck?

Um, Dykes. Heath Dykes drove a black truck. Yep. Like a 90s black truck. What did Marcus drive? He drove a Burgundy Ford F-150. Burgundy.

Not black. No, but I think his stepfather, he had access to some type of black truck, but I don't know what kind. But I don't think, I mean, he would be using a stepfather's truck. I don't know. He's the only one I know of that drove a black truck. What's Heath Dyke's alibi for Saturday night? His wife. Watching football. Where? Home. At wife. Watching football. Where?

Home. At his house? Yeah. That's it? Yep. He didn't go anywhere? Well, he must have went somewhere because he called Tara at 10.20 p.m. at the barbecue. I'm sure he didn't do that from the living room.

See, when you're a detective or something like that, you can say, I got a call, right? So you have a legitimate excuse just to be away from home, right? But his wife said he was home watching a ball game. But he found time at 1020 to call Tara.

As far as I know, that's his wife. It's his alibi for Saturday night. is this alibi for Sarah Donat. A lot's happened since I started this podcast. And honestly, I would have never expected to learn as much as I did about this case in really such a relatively short amount of time. The podcast itself opened up doors in this case that I thought were sealed shut. People who at first wouldn't talk to me are now starting to open up.

And my plan for the documentary and the podcast itself have been constantly changing, slowly evolving into what it is now. In the past, I told you this podcast would be a total of 12 episodes, but that's just not possible. I'm extending the Up and Vanish series on Tara Grinstead to 18 episodes. Out of respect for Tara, the sheer complexity of this case and the surge of new leads that have come my way, squeezing the story into 12 episodes will do no justice. And just so I don't leave you hanging, I'm going to share with you right now something

that happened to me when I first started investigating this case, just a month or so after I met Maurice Godwin. It's a fake Facebook account. He changed his profile picture too. Somebody has said something to him about the picture. When I first started digging around in this case, back before I even released the first episode of the podcast, Maurice started getting weird messages on Facebook from a fake account. And the creepy thing was, the messages were about me. I've searched for all those pictures in there, even highlighting just the facial area, and there's absolutely no matches anywhere on Google

anywhere. And he's put up another post. I mean, it's just weird what they wrote. As far as you know, you don't have any knowledge of who they've been. Zero knowledge. The name on this fake Facebook profile was George Harrison. And he was sending messages to Maurice using my name before I even put the podcast out. Someone was watching me very closely. We tried forever to find out who it was. But it was impossible.

The thing that concerns me is this might be somebody that has some information. We ran his profile picture in every search engine on the internet, but didn't find anything. For a while, I was afraid to mention this on the podcast, but I decided it was time to call him out. On the next episode, I'll be sharing with you these messages and this crazy journey I've been on trying to find this person's identity. From this point forward, this case takes some weird turns, and I'm hoping that together we can start to build a clearer picture of what Coming up this season on Up and Vanished. These items were found approximately six feet in the ground. And he was going to wrap my body up in a chain that would rock the apartment strength bed.

I think it's a very good tip. I think it's a very good tip. I sure do.