Up and Vanished - S2E9: Gone Fishin'

Episode Date: October 29, 2018

Siluriformes To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get ready for Las Vegas style action at BetMGM, the king of online casinos. Enjoy casino games at your fingertips with the same Vegas strip excitement MGM is famous for. When you play classics like MGM Grand Millions or popular games like Blackjack, Baccarat and Roulette with our ever-growing library of digital slot games, a large selection of online table games, and signature BetMGM service. There is no better way to bring the excitement and ambience of Las Vegas home to you than with BetMGM Casino. Download the BetMGM Casino app today. BetMGM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly. BetMGM.com for Ts and Cs.

19 plus to wager. O-N only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to any operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. If I can interview on the record with somebody who's been accused of some horrific crimes,

I've often found that they want to talk. They want to brag about it in some weird way, some cryptic way. The folks who are best to make determinations about what the truth and falsity of what they're saying is are detectives who know the cases best. I've done a lot of cold case homicides. When I do track somebody down, get that interview, cold case homicide detectives who know far more than I do. I don't have their file. When they hear what that person has to say, right away they see red flags.

Right away they're going, that's a lie. Ooh, that's not what we heard before. Ooh, that's a new detail. They hear more out of it than I. I am just reading them as, most of the time, trying to maneuver their way out of tough questions without directly admitting to anything. I've run into accused killers who are extremely bold and I've run into

those that are just flat-out liars. It's not I that determines the falsity of it, but detectives, prosecutors, they can see small things that trip killers up. If they would find Crystal's body, I'm positive they would know exactly who to go to as their top suspect or suspects. They have suspicions and they have some evidence. A defense attorney, it wouldn't take much to say, maybe she's alive. Can't make a case. So finding her is pretty important. You can't make a case.

So finding her is pretty important. If you have suspects talking, those who know the case best are the ones who can make the determinations whether that person's telling the truth or not. Or whether they're saying something that's new. It's all new to you, right? It may not all be new to the sheriff. I talked to a guy one time who was accused of killing a little boy and two women. I tracked him down in the Philippines. And when I interviewed him, I said, you know, you're the last person to see her alive.

And he laughed and he said, yeah, I guess I was. Not an admission. Just a weird statement. Especially when you could defend yourself. But that meant a lot to the detectives. That statement, for example. I think the most maniacal killers are that way. I acquired the Ted Bundy tapes from the FBI archives from a source. Ted Bundy, just before they executed him, he's taunting the detectives right up to

death row. He's telling them new details that they didn't know, tells the police for the first time. When he killed Georgiana Hawkins at the University of Washington, she was a sorority girl, he clubbed her over the head with a tire iron, put her in the car, took her out into the woods, and killed her. The next day, he came back on his bicycle to see the parking lot in which he took her from, and the police were there. And he drove his bike through the parking lot, and he saw her earring on the concrete, and he picked it up and put it in his pocket. And so he's telling detectives this just before they put him to death. He's taunting them,

telling them that they missed something, that he was smarter than them to the very end. Creepy stuff. From Tinderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is Up and Vanished. I'm your host, Payne Lindsey. Hello, brother. Hey, man, is this John? Yeah. Throughout the course of our investigation, there's been one name that kept popping up. Catfish. According to the police report, Catfish was the last person to see Crystal alive, at least that we know about. As we've all learned, cold cases like this are full of rumors. It was time to get his side of the story. Listen, you understand my frustration isn't that I got some kind of

vendetta against you or something. I don't have that kind of mentality. What I've got is I lived there for 17 years and now I've got a bunch of gossip fucking tweakers fucking talking to me about how why would I hurt the girl I barely knew her um she's a rainbow sister it's my job to protect her

right where are you at with this why are you doing this and why is this happening to me I have a podcast called up and vanished and it's about missing persons I have family podcast called Up and Vanished, and it's about missing persons. I have family in Colorado, so I heard about Crystal's story, and so I started looking into it. Oh, well, how nice of you. So listen, I have not taken—here's how you know I'm innocent. I have yet to take the time to listen to one word of one podcast. You see what I'm saying, friend? I'm done being accused of, like, it's the last

crime I would ever commit, pretty much. It's like, I can't even think of one at the moment, honestly. You know what I'm saying? This ain't like a little bit of selling some pot in the park. This ain't about, like, some fucking, this is a rainbow sister who allegedly was all these bad things happened to her, which. First of all, there's been no crime.

What happened to Christmas? I don't know. I've told the CBI, the Bureau, and the locals all I can possibly give them and more. Dretty Brian, Brian did admit to doing something, but he could have been saying it to be funny or something like that. He's a weird kid. But he basically said he confessed and he did it. However, I'm not able to get involved in that i'm guessing

because that's called a federal investigation i would be interfering in so unless you have some kind of like large amount of money i'm joking i'm not in this for the money either but i'm not in the fucking mood for jokes like i'm being harassed i ran out of my own village that I built, man. 11 years I've been there with my kid and now I'm not even with her anymore. So there's a story about we just want justice for Crystal's kid and stuff. I do too, but you know what?

I mean, are you still friends with Brian? Fuck no. Why would I be friends with someone after they said something like that? Why aren't you friends with him? Excuse me. He said that he'd done something that I would be completely against doing. Which was what?

Look, this is my interview of you, sir. This is not your interview of me, respectfully. I hear you're canvas. You're a good canvas, sir. You'd be great going door-to-door with Kirby. I do not mean to offend you. I am only saying... You're welcome to ask me questions. I'll answer any assert you'd be great going door-to-door with Kirby. I do not mean to offend you. I am only saying... You're welcome to ask me questions.

I'll answer any questions you have. Listen to me. Turn your recorder off if you want, then that'd be my question. But secondly, you're not going to do that. And third, I had nothing to do with this. Why would I tell you something that I wouldn't tell any of my friends? Why would I do something like this to begin with? What is it?

And this hasn't even necessarily, hopefully nothing's happened. She's been missing five times before and shown up at Disneyland. Maybe we should check Disneyland. Well, you know, I'm not accusing you of anything. I've never accused you of anything. I don't give a shit what you're accusing me of, sir. I'm asking you, have you been slandering me on live podcasts for money? No, I've never slandered you.

I've only spoken the facts and the truth. I learned about your name because of the police report. Crystal was at your house around your birthday, correct? I'm not answering your questions like that, sir. Okay, who's that in the background? You're in this for money. I'm in this for my life. All I do is I play what people tell me,

and I want you to tell me what you know, or what you don't know, or how you feel about all this. Considering you're again asking me to interfere with a federal investigation. I'm working with the family. Her daughter, Rodney, Amy, all these people, Mikey,

they all want to know what happened to Crystal and you're the last person to see her as we know and they know I didn't do anything so it's like but one thing's for sure is the Hoover administration likely has

jurisprudence over that little situation there as far as who you're doing it for. If I go against the FBI and hand you information that they're sitting on, likely because they know what they're doing and know how to do their job, I could be in a little bit of trouble. I know about the Facebook message. You don't have server-side date stamp.

What's that? Nothing. I understand. You don't have the recipient in and you don't have Facebook's timestamp server in. Kind of like a being.

Like, basically it proves that where it came from, it wasn't typed at the same person you know that that is real you're pretty good with computers right no not really at all i'm a photographer and i've lost all my computers and everything didn't uh didn't you give crystal a ten dollar computer book if i did i'm i have no recollect of it oh a book you mean like a literary book? Yeah, like a book.

I thought you meant like a Chromebook or something. I know that she was said to have taken one, and I'm happy that she did. It was a very small, very, what would you call it? It was like the T-ball or the kindergarten of exploring Wi-Fi networks. Basically, it was my name for it. I don't remember the real name for it.

It was How to Hack Amazon for $10 books on how to hack Amazon. It was basically about how to get free Wi-Fi. Someone told me a story about seeing you, some sort of van, gold, blue van or something, and what looked like a body rolled up in a shovel in the pouring rain. This person's lying to you for certain. You're speaking, but now it's definitely not. I've never been in a van gold.

She weighed, what, 200 pounds, something like that? I weighed 140. We see that happening with a carpet wrapped up in it? Come on, man. And then I'm the one that has resources to leave there and stay for three years. From what I can tell, you were the last person to see Crystal. Well, unless she's all alone and left all on her own,

obviously that's not true. Do you think she left on her own? What? Sir, you might think I'm an idiot, but you know I'm not this dumb. Do you think that if I did something harmful to her, I would be the one saying that? Then who else said

that? Because I sure as shit didn't say it, and we know that. If you had a badge, I wouldn't care. If you had a... I haven't even listened. I'm working with the family. I want you to hear me. I have not listened to one second of one podcast. I'm that innocent of it.

You see what I'm saying there? Crystal's family asked me. I don't. What am I to do when I've told, I've answered every question I could over and over again, as honestly I could. Here I am exposing myself unnecessarily

to things like that. And it's because I actually care also. But I care about my life as well. Have people been treating you differently? Brother, I couldn't go to town for three years because everyone looking at me going, that's the guy that I heard someone heard. Someone heard, did it. No one told you directly that they saw me put somebody in a van, man.

I heard them rumors, dude. It's all about, I heard that so-and-so heard that so-and-so saw that five parties, once more removed, John did something that looked like he went and took the trash to the curb or something. I mean, seriously, I have nothing to do with harming her in any way whatsoever. And you need to understand that if you're ever going to talk politely. On June 28th in 2016, Crystal said that she was raped at your house. Is that true? She did not say this.

Yes, she did. She said it to Aura, said it to Eli. That's three different people. That I don't know, that don't know me, and the truth is, it's not true. What happened that night? What night? June 28, 2016, went and picked Crystal up from your house in the middle of the night. No, actually, she was scared of him, and she

left him to come for safety. Now, I sound like I'm saying some shit here, so I'm just gonna stop, but that's the truth from me to you. That's what happened. Why would she make that up? Because that little pink-haired freak was making it up for reasons of his own

that I'm not dislanding him on. But did Ara make it up too? I don't know Ara. The landlord. And then Eli. I don't know either one of them. They both told me that Crystal told them she was raped at your house on June 28th.

Why would Crystal make that up? I wasn't even there then. That was the week after my birthday. No, that's July. I thought on June 28th. Also, you know what, sir? Do you want to cut the check today, or do you want to cut this check later? Because, honestly, you're making some shit up and falsely accusing me of it.

I know both of them, and for a fact, they did not tell you that. What are you talking about, cutting a check? What do you mean? Like, in half, because I don't want any money out of this. What do you mean, like, a check? I don't want to earn off of this, like, you sicko. I don't want to falsely accuse me of this. I don't want to sound like an angry person like I am,

but I am telling you, I'm getting 50 messages a day or more of people saying that this guy is fucking slandering me on this podcast thing, and I'm so innocent I haven't even listened to the podcast. You're trying to frame me up for money. I'm not trying to frame you, man. Imagine someone you know and love coming up and putting that to your head

in the middle of the night. That is a terrible thing to wake up to, and that's what's happened to me the past three years in a row. I wake up, people that's what's happened to me the past three nights, three years in a row. I wake up, people accusing me of shit like this. Like people that were friends, I thought.

The truth is, everyone out there that's not, except for those that aren't, are all on man-made salt talking about who do you think is crazy and how.

Think about that for a minute. And these are going to be reliable and credible witnesses? Unlikely. A woman telling someone that she was raped in someone's house, anyone's house in particular,

not mine at all, that I don't do that kind of thing, it's like one of the few crimes I'm against. I'm more against that one than i am the other one there still isn't even a crime she done been missing five times before i showed up at dillard's maybe we should check them all i'm not trying to be funny sir but i'm saying that like for real this has ruined my life and now you are attacking me. You are an official adversary at this point.

If you wish my friendship, you need to come correct on some things and understand that I didn't have anything to do with this. I've been falsely accused. Joseph, like the CBI, knows this. A few guys at the FBI know this. I know a few of them, guys. And not necessarily the best ways

but truth is man you done said I don't know what did you say about me that's got so many people telling me literally all I did was I read the police because you're lying about people telling you about her telling people that I raped her and stuff like that

you're absolutely lying about that I know this for a fact I never said that that raped her and stuff like that. You're absolutely lying about that. I know this for a fact. I never said that. That's other people who said that. That's what other people said. You're lying to me when you say they said that. That doesn't make sense. You're saying they said things that they did not say.

I recorded people who told me that Crystal said that she was raped at your house on June 28th. And I did the Roswell incident with the fucking 16 gauge in 1920. My first call with Catfish was interesting to say the least, but not exactly productive. He was obviously angry that people in Crestone were suspicious of his

involvement. But my main focus was on something different. Crystal's accusation that she was drugged and raped at his house on June 28th, 2016. Let's go through what Crystal's friends have told me about this incident. This is Aura, Crystal's landlord. Catfish was the last person to call her on her phone, which was left behind in her apartment. When I started talking with her friends that were coming by looking for her, they all said the same thing, which was she has to be at Catfish's. I mean, we're talking like 15 people all said the same thing.

When I put the two together of her saying I went to this party and got drugged and raped, and then I heard all those rumors, and then she was headed over there as her last thing to do before she disappeared, it just leads me to believe that either something bad happened to her while she was there or after she was there. And here's what the Crestone boyfriend told me. According to him, this happened on the night of June 28th. I wanted to go to the police about it. I was trying to talk to her. She felt like it was too late, that she didn't do a rape kit or anything. Since Crystal's been missing, he says that Catfish has tried several times to reach out

to him on Facebook. I blocked him because he kept trying to get a hold of me and stuff. He was like, just trying to send me all this peace and love shit. I had known that he would rape her. I blocked his account. But it wasn't just the Crestone boyfriend who knew this story. Allegedly, Crystal told her ex-boyfriend Eli, too, the father of her daughter. And it was Catfish, Brian, and a third guy who she can't identify. She doesn't know. It was fuzzy to her because of the way that they drugged her. They sneaked it on her.

Like, she didn't know that they did that. It was fuzzy to her, but she knew that there was at least three guys there, and one was Catfish, and the other one was Brian. The Dready Brian is what they call him experience basketball like never before with bet mgm an authorized gaming partner of the nba ready to shoot your shot we've made the BetMGM experience more immersive and fun for all types of basketball fans. Being on the sidelines is one thing. This season, experience basketball on the foul line, exciting state-of-the-art live tracking technology, and dozens of sportsbook selections await you at BetMGM Sportsbook. Tap into every game on your mobile

devices. Get up off the sideline and drive to the basket yourself. No matter which team starts popping off, you'll find out why there's truly nothing like laying up a W with the king of sportsbooks. Visit betmgm.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns

about your gambling or someone else close to you, please contact ConnexOntario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. Hey, I'm Tom Power. I'm the host of the CBC podcast, Q with Tom Power. I get to talk to artists from all over the world, writers, musicians, actors, directors, all kinds of creative people. And we try to have the conversations you have with really, really good friends.

The conversations you have when you share a love of something, about ideas, when you want to hear about everything. I feel really lucky to have these conversations. Cue with Tom Power. Available now on Spotify. Back to my call with Catfish. I mean, it's like this, man. I mean, you can accuse people of a lot of things. What I want to know is what has been said on that podcast

has got my friends so up in arms about this, figuratively speaking. Like, just saying, you know, as in just saying, may nobody threaten you or nothing like that. What I'm saying is that we don't do that kind of thing either. I'm just trying to ask about it.

And we definitely don't hurt our sisters. Like, that's the thing. It's like, I barely knew her. Like, I had no involvement with her. We never even kissed. I mean, there was no, there was none of that at all. I thought she was a little bit cute. I would have

definitely considered it and such, but the truth is we just hung out, and that's the end of the story. That's where it begins and ends. I'm just confused a little bit. I mean, I believe you. Just help me out. Perhaps it's because it's none of your damn business.

What's that? You said that you didn't know her very well, but she hung out with you and drank wine and smoked weed on your birthday? I didn't say that. I did not say that. You rewind that tape and prove what a liar you are. That's what the police report says. There is no police report. You lying mother...

You are now... What is this called? Extortion? I'll send it to you. What's your email address? I'll send it to you. Where do you live? I'll send you the police report. You will send me the police report? Why the hell would they give you a copy of the police report

when they've been ordered to stand down on it themselves? I have an executive order. This is bullshit. So yeah, I'll take it. I'll tell you what, I'll message you back. I just got home from a four-hour bike ride, all right? So I'm a little bit amped up. Let me send you an email in the next five minutes.

I need to calm down and have a drink. Thank you. I sent him a copy of the police report, written by Sewatch County Deputy Wayne Clark, which detailed his brief interview with Catfish a few weeks after she went missing. In the report, according to Wayne, Catfish states that he was hanging out with Crystal around his birthday, which is July 21st, and that they drank wine and smoked marijuana. And then the next day, Crystal got up and left, but she didn't tell Catfish where she was going.

Catfish also said that he didn't know her that well. Perhaps one of the biggest allegations we've heard thus far, besides Crystal saying that she was drugged and raped at Catfish's house, is Catfish himself claiming that Dreddy Bryan confessed to killing her on Facebook Messenger. He said Bryan confessed in a message, and that he shared this information with the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. I called the CBI myself to confirm they had this, and they told me they did. But when I talked to Catfish, he kept telling me that he couldn't release it. He said he'd face a 25-year prison sentence for interfering with

the investigation. That seemed a little strange to me. After all, the message was sent to him. He should be able to do whatever he wants with it. And this information could essentially clear him, right? You're calling the Colorado Bureau of Investigation Identification Unit. So I called the CBI again, and I asked them point blank if Catfish could share this message. And the CBI agent working this case told me yes. Catfish can share the message with anyone the CBI agent working this case told me yes. Catfish can share the message with anyone. Wow, that's amazing. So I reached back out to Catfish

to share the great news. Brother, I don't think you understand. I don't even get out anymore because of this for like three years now this is my only chance to have any like daytime or whatever i'm skipping the thing blah blah i'm not normally such a sounding of a freaking person i'm saying that i am being harassed stalked blah blah blah you're making podcasts about me? I ain't watched one second of one of them don't you think a guilty person might want to consider doing so? no if I had done it I would watch it

I guarantee that I do have iTunes I talked to the CBI they said that you could give me the information who at the CBI told you I could release that information to you? Joseph why did he not release it to you then? I guess he couldn't release it to me, but he said that you could.

You can ask him yourself. I don't need him. You saying it's good enough, me and Joe are good that way. Hey, Joe, if you're on the phone, by the way, love you, bro. Well, I think we could clear your name pretty quickly in one episode of the podcast with that information. Oh, my life's been destroyed over that situation. Once the person's accused of that. You have the proof though, right?

With the message from Brian? Hold on. Once a person's accused of some crimes like that, people don't ever remember if they were acquitted or maybe they had a good attorney or nothing because I never considered anyone to ever be innocent of it once

until this time here pretty much. Maybe Cosby because maybe she knew what she was getting into I really don't know. I mean hell maybe I let him fuck me for enough quaaludes but all jokes aside. Did Brian say that he killed her? Because if he did

then it's as simple as that. You know Jody Brian? Yeah. It's a direct confession and I have server side and my end of the my computer side let's put it out there man like let's prove your innocence right now the problem is i lost all my computers when i lost my home over this kind of crap so i'm having to get back into an online storage thing and listen to me here friend this is a for real on a for real like I'm being very real with you why can we not release

her real name makes me scared I'm not afraid of the fucking cops I don't understand what is her real name I'm not allowed to release her real name what's her real name Catherine Weisingberg

and there's only six of them in the entire Census Bureau data that was available to me at the time I looked at it. That doesn't make any sense. Well, I would kind of concur that's usually when I back the hell off of some kind of situation like that, considering it's some kind of Department of

Defense thing or something. Honestly, it sounds a bit paranoid. So does the fact that I've been told by official channels not to release her name hippie chick wants to you know i'm not disrespecting her at all i'm just i'm a bit annoyed at this point basically i'm starting to try to teach myself not to care what's going on with her okay i'm going through my own personal problems okay it's like this but i hella care but that's the curse of caring person okay she her name excuse me um is katherine it could it could be karen like a celtic spelling pretty sure it was katherine you understand when i was going through this data i knew who was coming to see me the next morning okay so i'm guessing like this.

Say you want to change your... No, I don't think it's some kind of like... I don't think that part of it has something with WITSEC type stuff to do with it, honestly, because they would come up with a more clever name. It's just a hippie version. What would Catherine Weisinger... That was it, Weisinger. Thank you, sir.

Change her name to have a cool hippie name, it would be likely the name that's on the posters and stuff. Which I donated computer equipment for to be made, so I mean anyways, the point is that why are we sitting on our hands when there is a file saying that I am no longer a person of interest

or suspect in this situation and have provided all information available, signed off by two people sitting in a file while there's some other person like you if you can, how soon can you get the file if you can give it to me man, I will put it out there for the world to see

on an audio thing, you'll put it out there for the world to see. On an audio thing, you'll put it out in the world for the world to see? I mean, yeah, I can just read it. I guess it was pretty funny. He kept bringing up the Facebook message. But when I told him he could release it, he had a different reason he couldn't give it to me. He lost his computers and has to log into some cloud account or something like that. But maybe the weirdest thing he said was that Crystal had a different name. That Crystal Reisinger wasn't even her real name. What is that even supposed to mean? Apparently, he gained access to some super-secret government files. Sounds unlikely,

but even if it were true, well, where is she? And didn't Brian confess to Catfish that he killed her? How could both of these things be true? He went on to tell me that he's been in communication with some random people on the internet, likely trolls. To be clear, I have no idea who these people are, and there's no connection to me or Up and Vanished. But he found it pretty irritating. Well, he's trying to shake me down using the same information you are. Oh, he messaged me today. Fish, you better run. They found a body.

Where the hell am I going to run? Why would I fucking even care almost other than I'm a caring person? Like, implying as if, oh, oh, oh, no, you done caught me. I mean, I have about 50 people a day contacting me claiming to be working for you. I can promise you that no one that works for me or with me has ever reached out to you but me. No matter what we think I've done i'd be out by now and i claim time sir for all mankind for all the hell i've been through basically you know i've considered fucking confessing just the prank at the end by going just saying and then showing them the information about who really said they did it i did not do

anything to hurt this woman at all i barely knew her she'd come over like twice she was a bit crazy like all of them people there you know I sound the craziest because I've been hunted like this I'm talking hunted for like three years and no one managed two to break the glass and three to

miss my ass kind of thing like where the vigilantes at on it I will say this on free will here sure whoever you got there with you's fine you can hear this too often they're agents if i thought someone i knew and like and live near or whatever and said first of all no one has anything on me all they say is so and so saidso said that so-and-so said that so-and-so saw him take the trash out in an orange van or something. Do we see me driving an orange van ever once, not even in Scooby-Doo? And all these people were my friends and my family, I thought.

I trusted none of them. That was a peaceful, beautiful, spiritual community when I moved there. And people smoked pot, ate mushrooms, things like that. Then the other stuff, the smoky stuff, whatever, come through. And it fucking, I'm not blaming it because what people do is what people do. And what you got to do is whatever you got to do. But this is just a disrespect to me. And I'm not going to take it to the level of we just want justice for her daughter and stuff.

I have heard that so many times at me. We can clear you. I don't really. I mean, I appreciate that. So can I, because now I have permission to do so. If you believe me to be innocent, then please do so. If you don't, then frankly don't. Because, like, I mean, I've, for the past couple years,

I've been wanting them to make me force myself to prove my innocence on this. Not to the point of being dumb enough to actually, like, you know, directly cause it intentionally. But even talking with you against my counsel is the dumbest thing I could do. But it's like, it's not to me. To me, I don't really care much about retrospective or whatever it is, blame and punishment and stuff. What I do care about is making sure that whoever did it doesn't do it again. The fact that I'm telling you dreddy

brian is accused me of hacking into his facebook and without commenting on that much i say that um i say to him that um i said hey listen why did you he's like okay he had he's he's no one's blocked i mean he's never blocked anyone before except her sometime in July. I forget when it was, like, July 18th or something. He blocked her on Facebook. I know about a thousand women probably have blocked him. But he blocked one person one time in his life, and it was her. And I asked him, I said, so why did you do this?

Don't accuse me of some hacking some shit I would it doesn't matter he said so then he finally so then he said these words to

I'm not gonna say the words Brian killed her is what he typed did he say like I did or did he he used the words

he used the words like like you just there, like that you did it. Like I. I see. Okay. Yeah, that I'm definitely not going to be on the court saying. Yeah, no. You see how that works? No, I get it. That's why the boys don't trust me to talk to you. And if you were going to frame up an innocent man using some trickery like that,

well, I'm obviously under more mental distress. That's the only reason why I was willing. I thought I was going to have to climb back in their system to get their files because all my computers were stolen and stuff. But then I remember how, how they received them, which means they're still there.

I just have 132 some files that I have to look through. And did you get them, Jimmy? I could. My internet is working overtime, defending itself from what I'm assuming to be a bunch of... So you don't know these people that claim to work for you? Couldn't we do like a 1-900-6-1 number? I'm not picking on your thing. I just haven't watched it.

All I've heard is everyone calling me, telling me that this guy's accused you of this and that and stuff. And I like the fact, like, I want to watch it. I'm a little curious what you're saying. The last episode, I put in there what you said. Like, I said that there's this message out there that Brian sent that claims that he did it. If you have it, I promise you I will put it out there. Like I said, I have about an hour and a half of daylight today that I haven't been outside yet to do.

I need that, okay? Like, I need that more than I need the money, money, anything. And, like, the thing about the money with you is only because I know that my name is not just some name picked out of some kind of random thing, and there's a few different things involved. And I'm not shaking you down here. I'm suggesting you don't pay them much. So what would I be paying you for exactly?

I didn't understand that part. For ruining my likeness and my name, which is internationally copyrighted, yes. Which one? Catfish? Yeah. All of them, but yes. Is that even possible? It actually is when, I mean, I'm not the suit, man. I don't know, you know. But, I mean, say it was a movie about a band or something.

And the band's cool. And I can, you know, that kind of thing, whatever. And the truth is, I could use some fucking scratch right now. But honestly, I was a photographer most of my life. and the truth is i could use some fucking scratch right now but but but but honestly i was a photographer most of my life they would literally starve these chicks for days before they gave them photo shoots and some of them would get them hooked on things to make them look extra desperate and hungry so those hungry eyes those panda eyes would sell more jeans that's what i dropped out of that scene right there.

Okay, this guy that messaged me, the reason I'm asking if he worked with you, is he's messaging me saying they found the body. Like I'm supposed to all, oh no! Or like, you know, as if I wouldn't know where. Or I mean, it would sadden me that she's not still just high at the park or something, which I say rudely now, I realize this. But the truth is, for all I know, that's what's happening, okay? Except for the thing Brian said.

Do you believe Brian, or do you think he's lying too? Brian's a total lying piece of shit, honestly. Why would he lie about something like that when we're in a heated debate on a Facebook message thing? And he says, all right, fine, fuck it, because I, you know, and he said that. And I thought to myself, I'm going to screenshot this and block him so he cannot redact it. And that's exactly what I did. And that's exactly what I did. And I've seen things about him,

natures in him, fights he's tried at me, things like that. At this point, what I'm saying is, I mean, I'm literally considering some really fuck around and find out kind of fucking strength with it. Because, well, when I was first accused of it and stuff and told how I'm facing 20 years in prison and all that stuff, I didn't want everyone saying,

but John wouldn't hurt a butterfly or a fly or whatever it was. And I was thinking to myself, I might actually not want to be that peaceful looking if I'm actually going in this skinny looking. Like, it might be a kind of like yeah and you know like some kind of like uh like uh basically I still have not been charged with anything I haven't even tried to convince you really of my non-involvement in the situation you just don't have to, I guess.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be smart, necessarily, though. The point is, I can just imagine for three years, coming out of a town like that, with not... I'm guessing everyone you talked with has heard something that someone heard about someone

they know. There's no firsthand anything. As far as I know, right? Except for the message you have, to be honest. The reason why they're still sitting on that in my non-legal opinion. That doesn't mean it's illegal opinion. You know what, folks? My jokes don't have to be funny. But the fact that this bloke still got jokes is hilarious.

Because I've been through hell. All right. And she wasn't there either. So like this. Well, put me back on track. I got real bad ADD and anxiety and such. What was the question? Why haven't they just gone to pick up Brian?

Like, what are they waiting on? Because they can't do that twice. They can't do that twice. The situation with them not having any crime been committed, in the happiest way I could possibly phrase that, I figured that's why they were sitting on it. Because there's no body? I'm thinking there's not.

That's true. It's true that I'm thinking there's not. I actually just meant that they hadn't found Crystal's body. Not that there may no longer be a body. That was interesting. What do you think Brian did to her? Honestly, I don't know what any man could have done to her because quite frankly, she was not a small-framed woman. She was not fat.

She was not one of them totals. She was probably 5'9", 5'10", something like that. Check into this then. She won a lawsuit against him the day or two before she went missing. That wouldn't be a reason for me to act violently against anybody for any reason whatsoever. But for somebody that has that predisposition already, I'm not an abnormal psychologist, like professor or anything, although I probably could get my PhD somewhere.

Rather it not be fulsome. Like my uncle would try to take me hunting and stuff, and I wouldn't even go with him to deal with it, because I'm like, we got food in the refrigerator. But I'm not all super squeamish. I'm just kind of not into blood and guts and corn. Sorry, I dropped the phone. I've got to go here in a second.

But like, okay, what would he have done with her? You're the one that does this for a living. I'm the one who has never come close to ever once being accused of anything like this. Brian is a skinny junkie that's done a bunch of push-ups from being in jail for a little six months since here and there. Basically, like, he has upper body strength to have fought her to maybe win, like, if she wasn't in her full, like, faculty or something. to maybe win like if she wasn't in her full like faculty or something but honestly them two in a boxing ring and some gloves and she'd probably knock his ass out just saying that she was not skinny and small like you know see you play on this call i'm not pre-texting shit i'm trying to get out the door in a fucking emergency hurry because i can see this daylight fading from me

and the truth is i'm just getting i'm getting dressed and brushing my teeth and getting ready shit, I'm trying to get out the door in a fucking emergency hurry because I can see this daylight fading from me. And the truth is I'm just getting dressed and brushing my teeth and getting ready to go out. And I suppose this kind of conversation does make me a bit uncomfortable. That would make sense as well. Do you say that someone stole your computers and that's why you can't give me the message? I am missing four Mac Pros from my house. Everything, when I left, they stole everything with her. If you're not law enforcement and you're not enforcement, me mentioning names about some of the people who slandered me is silly.

Basically, all of them. That's what freaks me out about Brian. That's why I don't know how to answer your question so well. I was introduced to him. I told him, this is a good family you need to know. It was Christmas. And I said to him, well, why didn't I know you then? Just jokingly.

And then I felt a little bit guilty with it being Christmas and stuff, for being rude to him like that. So anyways, we ended up being so-called friends, I thought. Then he stole my mom's credit card for $16,000. I confessed to that. I have a video of that somewhere. But it's all on... Basically thought I was being clever with cloud storage.

When you over-password things and stuff and you can't get one account to get to the other damn account so you can't prove you're in either one. When you hide your keys when you're drunk at night, like that i think um not you personally me i know i'm your driver that um not no more all right then fine friend i find new employment i'm actually not crazy like that i'm just having that much stress that um that i'm really just trying to see some daylight today man i asked I asked him about Landon,

one of the guys we heard from briefly in episode six. Do you think he's involved with Ryan, too? Because that's what I've been hearing. People keep telling me that, but with the stuff I hear of myself, I'm hesitant to accuse the people that have confessed to it. You see what I mean? Like, that's why it's interesting, you know,

having the time-server stamp of both, obviously, because... You have to give me that. Like, it's why it's interesting, though, having the time-server stamp of both, obviously, because... You have to give me that. Like, it'll be huge to put that out there. How can I earn off of this situation? It's kind of the thought that crossed through my mind when I tried to ask you for Bitcoin. One thing is, like,

like, if there's that, if there's... Okay, over 1,000 people have done checkmate background checks on me alone in the past month. That's 1,000 people spending $39.95 to look up my name because you mentioned it on a podcast. Well, we actually censored it. I'm kind of thinking that if it's – wait, so if you're not my problem with that situation, then I got a whole nother problem of a situation because $39 times a thousand people is $39,000. Do you want to help me find Crystal too? No.

It's like this. Sure. But me, once they put me into it, since they didn't mention my name being involved or something like that i wasn't exactly supposed to put on a raincoat like like you wore as a little kid the beach or something metal flashlight walking around you know in mine shafts or something like that and going i done found her do you realize how weird that would have looked? There are a bunch of psychics that know me out there claiming to know, and they all got different stories. I can't ask you to drop this one because I'm involved in it.

But if this was just a hypothetical situation, this is one I sure as shit would walk away from, but it's too late for you to do so, I agree. So let's close it up proper and I need you to understand if you'd be willing to it's not my job to prove my innocence

not according to Congress or you know that kind of thing and it definitely I am if you knew me like I am the if you knew me, like, I am the one guy that didn't do it, for sure. That's why I'm saying, like, yeah, I'm beating a candy bar on my way out the door,

but the point is, we know I didn't say that. Like, we know that no, I mean, I cannot imagine a criminal mindset of a person that would say something like that. Wasn't she last seen at your house, though? That's what I'm talking about, sir. Last seen. We don't know what month she went missing. What I was saying was we do know this much.

I sure as shit didn't say that. So, like, um... What was she like when she left? Like, did she say she was going to go somewhere or something? Or did she seem like she was going was going to go somewhere or something? Or did she seem like she was going to meet up with Brian or something? She wanted to go meet with some guy I don't know. Me being mentioned in this event didn't help me one bit, that's for sure.

I mean, that guy is probably what happened to her. I know. Do you think it was Brian? I mean, that's... Did she describe that her. I know. Do you think it was Brian? I mean, did she describe that guy she was going to meet? Big Cat. Big Cat. That was it. And that makes it sound like some alter ego of mine.

I didn't remember this for a year or so after I was interviewed. So, yeah, it doesn't really speak well of me to be saying it now. I've been advised by like four attorneys not to. Big Cat? Who on earth is Big Cat? Nowhere ever have I heard this name, and it's certainly not in the police report. Why is he telling me now?

Whoa, what are you listening to this for? Wait, who's talking? You know you're driving a 2024 Ford Escape with available Alexa built-in, so you can change the music. Oh yeah, Alexa, change station to 99.2. See? Purchase a 2024 Escape ST-Line all-wheel drive with Tech Pack at 3.49% APR for 72 months with down payment. That's just $267 bi-weekly. Cash value of $40,294.

Plus, eligible Ford owners get a $1,000 bonus. For details, visit your local Ford store or Ford.ca. The bottom line is that all these things can't be true. Brian confessing to killing her, Crystal having some undercover government name, and now the last thing Crystal said was she was going to see some guy named Big Cat? But if the Big Cat story is true, then he may hold the key to solving this. I don't know. I can't imagine hurting someone over money or any other reason really like that. I could only hurt somebody if it was in immediate and direct defense of my life or someone else's, and I would still feel guilt and would have done the best thing instantly about it if I had.

They killed a sister of ours. The reason why they did it is not one question I'm going to ask. Jack Ruby had a minute and 45 seconds to run and didn't move his boots once i mean brian should pay for it then you know how's he gonna pay for it by us putting him in the state paying for his hatred he won't last any longer on the street. For one, what if he was joking? As ill-humored of a joke as it be. Two, say,

I kind of do think he did it at this point. Do you think he was joking? I do think he did it at this point. But say he's removed from the usual lineup. Who's next in line to accept that?

Big cat? Look, I know you serve all of us from our conversation here. We're all friends again. I know that. To know that you don't really believe and care about paying for it. You can't pay for a life back. I mean, a person can try. Like, I'll take $35 million, that kind of thing, but

there's not a... There's no replacement. No. And this thing that I keep hearing about, we just want her child to have justice and stuff. Listen, if her child at, what, four or five years old or so is already vindictive

enough to need to know who did it and punish them, then that scares me on a, like, you know, Chucky had children and they're real kind of thing. I don't know, like, when I met her, she was crying and she gave me a hug and she was like, I'm so glad someone's looking for my mommy. I don't know, it's kind of heartfelt.

Okay, see, I never met her. I didn't know her family. I only hung out with's looking for my mommy. I don't know. It's kind of heartfelt. Okay, see, I never met her. I didn't know her family. I only hung out with Crystal, like, twice. And apparently, I'm not going to say anything bad about her, but her and I never hooked up, nothing. It was a thought. She was pretty, everything like that. My father just came home.

He's nothing like that. I was supposed to be gone an hour ago. Hey, Dad, I'm on the phone with the guy from the podcast. I decided to fill it all in for nothing, basically. Hey, Dad. I'm on the phone with the guy from the podcast. I decided to fill it all in for nothing, basically. Hey, Dad. So, look, sir, I need to go now. The reason that I don't care what they've done to her, kind of necessarily, and why I think it's sick that you think that her daughter should have to care,

is that if your mother is removed from your life in a situation like that god forbid that happen to anyone at four years old you're vendettive enough to need to know the name and place of a person i mean is is is pretty extreme to me when the reason i would tell the truth and have been telling the full truth and will continue to i think she's just sad. Right, but people keep coming at me with the same canvas of that basically why would he do that is unimaginable to me. I mean, people have really offended me in my lifetime. There have been some fights I've been in, things like that.

At no point have I ever gone out to hurt someone that I can think of. Look, if she would have been missing five times before and we found her at Dillard's every time then, maybe we should check belts. Where should we check now? I don't want to hold you up. talking to cops or whether she was stealing from people or whether she was doing anything at all there was never a just time my point is that there's never like the question of why was it done

to me is quite honestly i see how you identified you are from the situation so you thought um until the copyright thing came up but it's like this which I'm not against you on for now I do not want to spend the rest of my year in court and what I want to spend the rest of my year of jail so it's like this but I would like some money I'd like to know how much some files would be worth yeah you know I'm asking you that sounds like a selfish thing to ask I have every, obviously every ability to watch a podcast or something. Okay.

And have yet to see what's being said about me is not something an innocent person, I mean a guilty person, would do. Wouldn't you want to know what people are saying? Not when it's the same lies that are ruining me for so long now. And she was a friend of ours. She was a friend of mine. And you've got theories, suggestions of what might have been horribly done to her. So it's like this. I'm great at either gate, really,

but walking down the middle street with the 98, they're too afraid to freaking say what they know is true, and that's the other end. Basically, I dig the hole for you, sir, that Brian will pay for it either way. But say he were to be removed from the situation, hypothetically, then they find her somewhere.

A few years later, a few decades later, I don't know, right? Natural causes, 50 years from now. And I'm down on my luck in a coffee shop somewhere. He's no longer available for the lineup. But that's selfish of me at this point. I keep hoping that it's like all the other times she's been missing. I mean, a lot of missing people go missing.

I realize that didn't sound that intelligent, but you know exactly why. But honestly, sir, a friend of someone, you know, just remove yourself from your own person, you're familiar, but someone you know, love and care about goes missing. And for years, you're worrying about it. You even use those stuff. Everyone has come to me with every possible, like, I don't know every way a person can leave the earth, can die or whatever. But I know there's things called like 10,000 faces of death. I don't watch them TV shows either. But what I'm saying is I've heard every possible reason that I've never even thought of, such as like, you know, a reason to buckle your seatbelt, a reason not to buckle your seatbelts.

Airbags kill people, too. Meaning, John, are you sure you didn't have something to do with it being asked of me by people that know him well? I didn't have anything to do with it. Teddy Bryant, I will have him meet me at a train station if you want to find the kid. And the truth is, he's a junkie. He'll meet you somewhere for $200 and a half a gram of black, probably.

Do you know where he is? I mean, I can't find the guy. He came back to Crestone. I ran him right back out of town. He may have only made it halfway home. I'm not sure. But, yes, I'm joking. But, honestly, that's part of what I was trying to explain to you earlier with the fuck around and find out kind of.

I mean, I think the Big Cat guy should be questioned. Don't you? But honestly, that's part of what I was trying to explain to you earlier with the fuck around and find out kind of. I mean, I think the big cat guy should be questioned, don't you? I have leaked his name to the local bureau already a long time ago. Questioning somebody that they don't know a real name for, that has a similarity to mine, is not going to be taken kindly by me for that to be stood up with it. For what? What day was that? But the truth is, I didn't see the guy. I've never met the guy. What day was that? Like, around what day did she leave? I remember the evening quite well.

Go to hell, sir. I mean, seriously, what evening was that? I don't even know what month it is. Like, you want to reconnect with me? You give me the space right now, sir, or we cut it. Okay, I'll give you the space. Call me back. Motherfucker.

That's what happens when you try to shake somebody down for $75,000. Well, that's how I come at you, right? With a Bitcoin request for $75,000? Well, it's a pretty big harm to my life that's happening, and I could use a whole lot of come-up money right now. But that was just what my napkin said. Throughout all my conversations, he kept bringing up money and Bitcoin. How much money do I want? Stuff like that. It didn't make any sense whatsoever. And I myself never mentioned

this once. And I'm clearly not in the business of sending or receiving money from him. I asked him again about the last time he saw Crystal She showed up We hung out for a bit She left the next day She was upset on the phone about her rent Or something Anyways And That's to the best of my recollection

Last time I saw her But I sure as in anything Guarantee you That is the very first time I have said that to anyone. I mean... Was she mad about the rent? She was very upset. She was actually very, very, very upset about it because she was being unjustly kicked out of her place from what I was hearing.

I was in the background screaming to speak with the woman who does a lot of things. She couldn't afford it, I guess, right? Was that money or something, or what? I have no idea, sir. I barely knew her, honestly. I met her at a party, invited her over. She came over like either that night or the next day. We hung out that night.

We smoked some pot, drank some wine, things like that. We were nuts. And then maybe one or two other times, did I hang out with her. That's all I fucking know, sir. You knew her before that, right? It's not your job to be harassing me after I said I need space. That's what I motherfucking know.

You can have it, man. It's fine. It's cool. You know, it kind of would be until it happens to you. So give me this space before I say some cruel stuff, please. Okay. You find some evidence that says I've done it, you air it, do whatever you want to do, because there is none of it. You have one unheard message. Hey, my name is, uh, I just got a message from somebody saying that my name was brought up with the crystal disappearance and that you were trying to get a hold of me. I'd like to clear up anything that was said.

I found Big Cat and he wants to go. Up and Vanished is an investigative podcast told weekly, produced for Tenderfoot TV by Payne Lindsay, Mike Rooney, and me, Meredith Stedman, with new episodes every Monday. Executive producers Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright. Additional production by Resonate Recordings, as well as Mason Lindsay, Rob Ricotta, and Christina Dana. Our intern is Hallie Bidal.

Original score by Makeup and Vanity Set. Our theme song is Ophelia, performed by Ezra Rose. Our cover art is by Trevor Eiler. Special thanks to the team at Cadence 13. Visit us on social media via at Up and Vanished, or you can visit our website, upandvanished.com, where you can join in on our discussion board. If you're enjoying Up and Vanished, tell a friend, family member, or co-worker about it. And don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening.