Upstream - Craftivism with Sarah Corbett

Episode Date: May 1, 2016

Sarah Corbett is a craft-activist, or "craftivist". She is the founder of Craftivist-Collective, and has worked as a campaigner for NGOs like Oxfam and Christian Aid. Sarah takes a very unique and thoughtful approach to activism. We talked about the intersection between activism and craft-making, how activism can be slow, gentle, and kind, and about the surprising story behind why she made a handkerchief for her Member of Parliament.

Hello and welcome to Upstream, which is part of the Economics for Transition project. Hello and welcome to Upstream, which is part of the Economics for Transition project. I'm Della Duncan, and today we're speaking with Sarah Corbett, the founder of the Craftivist Collective. Welcome, Sarah. Thanks for having me. How would you describe yourself to the audience? I'm a craftivist so I founded the Craftivist Collective which is activism using needlework and I guess it's all about slow activism and I'm from West Everton in inner city Liverpool. And how did you move from your upbringing in

Liverpool to the craftivist that you are now? What were some of the key events or the key things that kind of inspired you to do the work that you do now? I guess my journey into running the Craftivist Collective, which is now a global social enterprise. gyda phobl o galerïau i brifysgolion i ddynion ar hyn o bryd ac yn gwasgu cits a thwylliau i weithwyr crafftigol o amgylch y byd i wneud eu hunain neu mewn grwpiau sy'n beth anodd iawn i'w wneud. Fe wnes i fyw yn West Everton, sy'n ardal arloesol iawn yn Llywodraeth, gyda'r dad i fel ysbyty lleol, a'r mam i, rwy'n un o'r tri. Roedd hi'n gweithio â tri plant local vicar and my mum I'm one of three she had three kids under the age of five at one point I don't know how she survived and was a nurse and then full-time mum and now she's a local politician so I always grew up around the kitchen table talking about religion and politics which you

don't really expect and I always say that I've been an activist from the age of three or even from in the womb because my mum and dad were always at community meetings, whether it was about getting better health centres or whether it was about social housing that was mouldy, that was causing lots of health issues or education. We had lots and lots of issues in the 80s that my mum and dad were with the community trying to look at how they could improve them and then they squatted in local housing. So age three there's a picture of me on the front of the local paper with the picture of the local community who won the right to keep social family housing that were going to be knocked down to build a park that no one wanted in the area but the council thought it might look good and it would have split apart a very close

knit community so my mum my dad lots of members of the community of all faiths and non squatted in these houses and saved them but it took a long time so I sort of grew up seeing local campaigning and some of it working and some of it not working and I grew up with my mum and dad asking all us three kids you know how did you think our sermons were were they good were they bad what do you think about this campaign how would you have improved it so really looking critically at life we do it with films as well what was good about that film what was bad about that film so always grew up as an activist and knowing that the best campaigns are strategic but flexible you need allies of all sorts so I've always grown up knowing that campaigns are extremely complicated sometimes you win them sometimes you lose them sometimes you don't know

if you have an impact sometimes you do so I think I've only really been employable to be a campaigner rydw i'n meddwl mai rydw i'n gweithio i'r cyflwyniad. Mae'r cyflwyniad yn cael ei ddod yn ystod y cyflwyniad. Mae'r cyflwyniad yn cael ei ddod yn ystod y cyflwyniad. Mae'r cyflwyniad yn cael ei ddod yn ystod y cyflwyniad. Mae'r cyflwyniad yn cael ei ddod yn ystod y cyflwyniad. Mae'r cyflwyniad yn cael ei ddod yn ystod y cyflwyniad. Mae'r cyflwyniad yn cael ei ddod yn ystod y cyflwyniad. Mae'r cyflwyniad yn cael ei ddod yn ystod y cyflwyniad. Mae'r cyflwyniad yn cael ei ddod yn ystod y cyflwyniad. Mae'r cyflwyniad yn cael ei ddod yn ystod y cyflwyniad.

Mae'r cyflwyniad yn cael ei ddod yn ystod y cyflwyniad. Mae'r cyflwyniad yn cael ei ddod yn ystod y cyflwyniad. Mae'r cyflwyniad yn cael ei ddod yn ystod y cyflwyniad. Mae'r cyflwyniad yn cael ei ddod yn ystod y cyflwyniad. Mae'r cyflwyniad yn cael ei ddod yn ystod y cyflwyniad. department for international development for on a three-year project so always on engaging people in social injustice but for me it was always international development rather than UK issues and I think that's because when I was I think I must have been eight it was in 91 1991 the only sabbatical my dad took we had a month where we went to South Africa and Mandela had just got out. And we went specifically to see how segregation was touring up communities and creating lots of violence, but also seeing how the church has worked to challenge a lot of that

work alongside Mandela and Desmond Tutu. And my dad went there sort of to see what was going on with social justice there and learned some transferable skills for his work in Everton. And we, as kids, went on the summer holiday and went to shanty towns and played games with people of all different races. And sometimes it was really risky and we had to do it in secret. So as an eight-year-old kid that's quite strange to want to play with a kid of a different race and having to do it in someone's garage so that the neighbours wouldn't see as a white girl playing with a black lad and my brothers and sisters so that's always stayed with me, lots of vivid memories to say we're all human,

what is going on here? Seeing that campaigns can win but also seeing that there's a lot of injustice that we just shouldn't ignore. And then the final part of that answer is I guess working in the NGO world you can end up, especially for large charities, you can end up in a very large system and be a tiny cog, which is still important to all be cogs. But we were going through a lot of the same formulas of we need to get this petition out. We'll do an online petition so it's as easy as possible for people to just click that they support it. And then we'll do a march and then we'll do a stunt. And we sort of had a formula as campaigners to go this is how it's done and a lot of my concerns were that I was reading reports at the

same time that we would commission as charities with politicians and businesses saying what impacted them and the more the easier these petitions were often online the more that the people we were trying to influence were questioning whether people actually genuinely cared about these issues or whether we were so good at our jobs as an industry of charities that we would just get people to sign it and say this is important sign it you know we're a brilliant charity you respect us just trust us that it's good so i really worried about how easy so people talk about clicktivism and slacktivism how easy it was to do that so slacktivism is like when you slack off

if you're a slacker so slacktivism is still signing online petitions or offline but anything that's really easy you don't have to think too much it's a little bit when people like when people call that type of activism armchair activism you sit in your comfy armchair you do a little bit once in a while you opt in and then you get back to your daily grind daily life so I was very concerned that one I was treating people like a robot but also that I felt like I was being a robot. I was just doing these petitions personally outside of work, joining these different groups. I'm not sure that I was engaging deeply in issues. I was stunting people's growth because I wasn't saying,

let me tell you about the complexities of climate change and this campaign, particularly on land grabs, is a part of this problem that we need to solve. But holistically, there's lots of things we need to do as voters, consumers, friends, colleagues. And one of the things to do is this action that we need straight away. So this law isn't passed or whatever the issue is. I was just saying, please sign this petition. And while I was signing it, I was looking for the next person to sign it so even if people asked me questions my target was to get as many

signatures as possible so if people said tell me a bit more about it I'd go oh okay la la la la la which looking back I just think what am I doing that's not what my values are about that's not what we should be doing long term that's not helpful we're just firefighting rather than you know looking at the root causes and looking for long-term change and demonizing the people that we wanted to influence i just felt like was a complete contradiction you know you're going to scream at someone and say you're the devil and then say by the way will you change your law now you know we're human beings why would screaming at someone get them to listen if anything we go to fight or flight mode and we either shut off and don't listen or we fight back so actually we're stopping people from being able

to engage because we're physically being threatening so psychologically it just made no sense to me and I found craft as in hands embroidery so not not glasswork or woodwork but hand embroidery of that repetitive slow stitching um because I was traveling a lot on a train as one of my jobs and I missed using my hands like a lot of people do because you're just on emails all the time and wanted to do something creative so I picked up a small craft kit and noticed that it slowed me down it helped me realize how burnt out I was it made me ask myself difficult questions like am I being effective in my job and as a personal activist or am I just doing lots of stuff rather than doing less better and because craft is

such a comforting tool I really sort of dwelled on those trains and went okay what do I do now what what's helpful what's harmful what can I do within my job and challenge some of the targets we're given? What could I do outside of my job? And then I saw lots of other benefits to craft when the years went by and became a craftivist because I googled craft and activism and the word popped up, craftivism, which was coined in 2003, by, 2002, by a woman, American, called Betsy Greer, and I looked on her website and saw that she was showing how craft had been used in the past, but there wasn't any projects I could do or groups I could join.

What were some of the historical examples? Yeah, so everything from, you know, people might see and remember images of Gandhi with his cotton wheel and how he would stretch out the cotton and do his yarn, whether it was women in sewing bees, especially in America, quilting bees. And she was looking at that and saying, actually, these women coming together and making quilts was sort of politics with a small p so she was saying just coming together and discussing issues or darning socks together was a political act I mean for me my background's activism so for me that's not um directly activism and the activist inside me wants to do more you know very specific sort of lobbying or changing cultures or

protest stuff but i could see her point about you know the fact that we're making and mending makes us maybe think a bit more about who made our clothes and how long they last incredible stories one of my favorite ones is women in chile who would make these smaller apliques called apelios I probably said that wrong who under the Pinochet dictatorship would hide together in basements where where the military wouldn't see them and embroider these small patches and one reason was because they were losing the men in their villages whether they were being murdered or going missing or tortured because of the dictatorship and they wanted to express themselves and they wanted to grieve together and craft can be an incredible tool for therapy and for mental health and depression there's lots of evidence around that

but they managed to get them smuggled out by amnesty international said we need your your replicas as evidence of what's happening because pinnashay is stopping the censorship everywhere we don't know what's going on you're making these things for you but actually this is really powerful evidence for us and they were used in one of the law courts as a way to say what pinnashay was doing so i mean for me without those bits of cloth and these women who'd spent hours on them what did they sew on them so it was mostly mostly images so not many words and it would be some really harrowing so you can see them all on the power of google and other search engines

um some of them would be the torture that their men had gone through prisons torture very um stylistic but you could imagine what was happening some of them looked very beautiful and happy and you look into them and it will be a village dancing but it's only women because all the men have gone and there'll be a message in there about we miss our men we want to dance with our men others would be um with police in there with the military in there taking people away so a real mix but again because people had spent hours on it and it was a real process you couldn't really ignore the power in them so when people say no no pinocchio is lovely he's not doing anything awful but you've got these communities of women who've made these things. Yes, they could have lied, but you can't imagine someone... Spending all of that time together in secret.

Yeah, to do some propaganda. It was a very natural thing for them to do. And it was a brilliant thing for Amnesty to say, that's actually a really powerful tool for law, but also for awareness raising, for the conversation to be out there more. So there's a real mix out there, but for me, I saw that craft slowed me down, helped me think.

I started, when I found a problem in activism, I was trying to solve it and saw that craft could help sometimes. So it was never shoehorning a love of craft into activism, it was seeing where it could help. So lots of people will make teddies to give to children in africa to help them smile and i've got lots of concerns over whether that's good development so i talk about how i think there should be guidelines and

maybe not rules but you know i think we need to be really emotionally sensitive if we're talking about injustice issues that we make sure that we don't oversimplify it i think we need to be really emotionally sensitive if we're talking about injustice issues that we make sure that we don't oversimplify it I think we need to make sure so the teddy example to children in Africa which is the quote on the website to help make them smile you know my immediate concern is are those teddies needed you know they're coming from the west are we imposing what we think things with joy would bring for me i've made a manifesto for the craftivist collective we've got 10 points which is it's about solidarity not sympathy it's about challenging um structures and systems of injustice not donation or fundraising because they're important but they're not activism they're very different but part of the the you know holistic view of changing the world so if you google

craftivism there's lots of stuff out there and for me i'm trying to see where in the activism toolbox can it be useful and where can it enhance other forms of activism or challenge some stuff that I think is demonizing and not respectful and so going back to this idea so are you a an activist who uses craft or a craftivist because you do say you do use other you do protests and things so is is craft the the vehicle or is it the i don't know the way and the end or something again i mean one of i did this manifesto because it is so messy isn't it and we need to try and hone down on on what it is but obviously be flexible to the context we're in and i for me again i didn't coin the word and i always say craftivism is like punk you've got the Ramones and Talking Heads and Sex Pistols and you know all these different bands under the the label punk but

they sound completely different so for me the craftivist collective for us activism is the priority you know the priority should be that we want to challenge injustice and ideally, you know, make the world a more gorgeous place. And craft is the tool. If I often work with a lot of people who love craft and they go, I love craft. What a brilliant idea to use my love of craft for activism. And I have to challenge it gently and say, OK, we need to not shoehorn our craft into something. So it might end up weakening the campaign so where can it be useful where can't it be so i always say that yeah activism is the task and the craft is the tool

and if the craft is the task master then we've got it wrong you know it really can't be so they're not equal for me you know it should be 90% activism and seeing craft as a tool to do it and over the years I've seen the strengths of what craft can do to slow you down help you be more mindful and critical create something beautiful to give to someone as a gift to say you know this is a gift to say you could do a brilliant job how can I support you as a politician or as a teacher or as a journalist with lots of influence but not just making loads of things that you know if I gave a hanky I made a handkerchief for my local politician to say don't blow it use your power and influence for good I know being a

politician is a tough and a big job but I'm here to to try and support you where I can and I ond rwy'n yma i geisio cefnogi chi lle gallaf, ac fe wnaethon i ei ddynnu ar fy hanky ac roedd hi'n ei roi i mi fel haddiog. Nawr, os oeddwn i wedi gwneud hanky bob wythnos, byddai'n llwyddo'r defnydd o'r gwaith yw'r gwyllt ar gyfer cymdeithas a'r ddynniad i adeiladu cymdeithas a chymdeithas â hwnnw ar lawer o materion nad oes angen gwaith ymwneud â nhw. Rwyf wedi rhoi'r gwartheg hon i agor drwyddi i ddweud, to engage with it on lots of issues that I don't need craft involved in. I've given this gift to open up a door to say I respect you and I want to work alongside you. I want you to challenge me where we disagree and vice versa and see where we can overlap. But if I just made a load of things, it wouldn't be helpful.

So what was that like? You met with her, your MP, which is your Member of Parliament, and you brought this handkerchief where you had embroidered a note. And then you handed it to her. What was the difference? What was the quality of exchange that happened because of that? Yeah. I mean, the context is that I moved to her constituency and lots of people would get lots of emails and letters in the post from charities I supported saying sign this petition send it to your local member of parliament which I do a lot very aware now not to do it too much but do it where I can and I got my first correspondence

back was from her office her constituency office telling me to stop contacting them they said it was a waste of their time and my time and it was a waste of charity's money um because everything I was sending them was sort of against what she was voting for so I was immediately you know pretty pissed off really thinking even if you think that you shouldn't say it to a constituent you're supposed to want our vote so I really thought you know as a constituent I want to have an impact and she's basically saying that this is making no difference whatsoever so what can I do and we have in the UK we have you know democracy and in much better than lots of countries yes it's not perfect but it's supposed to be accountable you know you you are allowed to meet your MP if you ask to meet them

so I embroidered this handkerchief after thinking she doesn't know me she doesn't know that I really care about everything from climate change to a living wage to local issues international issues which for me all come under you know oppression and not helping people fulfill their potential or inequality issues and I cared about all of them equally so I needed to show her that I cared but also needed her to not just see me as this ranty activist that would never vote for her that might just demonize her because the word activist is quite scary words you know politicians are scared of us activists with the capital a and so by making her this gift one it gave me it took me hours took me about six hours over the space of a week on and off and i had to force myself to think very deeply about what words

am i going to use so i wanted it to be a timeless message that she'd keep um and see it as an encouraging tool to keep her on track, to do good things and keep her accountable to constituents like me, but also really encouraging. So I know politicians in the UK are demonised massively. We often make sweeping statements about all politicians are corrupt, which I just think isn't helpful at all so by making this gift I also knew that if I contacted the office and said I want to meet my MP by law they have to fit you in so they fitted me in on a Saturday morning which was hard to get out of bed to go to the local library for a surgery and I brought my handkerchief I didn't bring any briefing papers from charities. I didn't say, I want you to do this now.

Please sign this or have this photograph taken for this campaign. I just went in and said, I've been sending you emails on these different issues. And the reply I got back was this. I totally understand that you're really busy. You've got loads to do. You're a new MP. You know, it's going to be a big job to do but we don't know each other so I've made you a gift to say that you know good luck in what you do

and she read the message and was genuinely moved she went from being quite cold and we were nervous of each other to smiling she looked at the back of the hanky which made me think she might be a crafter because that's what crafters do and what did the hanky say and it said that you know don't blow it use your power and influence for good and now being an mp is a tough job so the message was a bit like a letter and it was over my own handwriting so again very personal no exclamation marks no no capital letters apart from the don't blow it so she got the pun of the handkerchief and it was a timeless message and I said I hope that it helps you in your work you know why did you become an MP and she immediately opened up to me said I used to work for John Lewis which in the UK is a

cooperative a large one so I immediately went oh John Lewis a brilliant economics really good cooperative model really interesting you know a bit concerned that they don't pay the temporary clean as a living wage but you know brilliant what they do there I was in Kenya looking at micro enterprise groups doing incredible stuff as well she spoke about different issues she cared about so I connected her to a couple of groups that actually wouldn't have worked with her because she votes on lots of stuff they don't support. But I could say, Jane's really passionate about this issue and I think you could work together on this.

And don't demonise her just because of her political party because we need to work with people we disagree with just as much. And it was a real challenge for me to hear from her why she voted on things I disagreed with. Over the years, you know, we opened up more to each other about the complexities and how we could help with certain issues. And coming back to the craftivism, for me, without offering this handkerchief, I don't think we would have been able to show how much we respected each other and wanted to work with each other. But it was very much always a critical friendship you know not rather than being aggressive enemies it was about trying to see where we agreed with each other trying to understand where we disagree

and both working within that and I would love to say that I changed her mind on Trident, but I didn't. And what's Trident? Arms system and nuclear power and all of that stuff. We still vote on very different things, but there's some common ground. It's respectful. And without that handkerchief, I don't think we would have been able to work the way we did. But I haven't made her would have been able to to work the way we did but I haven't made another handkerchief so for me it's really challenging craftivists as well to say you could get really safe and just make loads of things because you like making but actually let's challenge ourselves

and see where is it useful and where should we do activism where our handkerchief isn't needed and that might not be as safe and as fun but it's just as important if not more important so you have you've left the world of big charities and ngos i still work a lot you still work with them yeah but you work with your own collective now which is a social enterprise as you mentioned have you seen any changes or transformation within the charities and ngos both because yeah like you there used to be, or maybe there still is, more of this kind of campaigning, going up to people, having to get signatures, having to make things easy for people to sign online and that kind of stuff. So what is changing in that world, if anything? Yeah, I mean, when I started doing it, I did it as a hobby on top of my job.

I mean, when I started doing it, I did it as a hobby on top of my job. And then I wrote a little blog about it because lots of my friends were saying, send me, you know, you're doing this stuff. Can I read about it somewhere or see pictures? And suddenly people around the world said, I want to join in. You know, I'm an introvert. So I put on there and burnt out. One of the reasons is I'm an introvert and lots of activism is out is for extroverts so I had people going I'm an introvert too or I love craft and I'm scared of activism so is this something I can get involved in so it's said steadily has grown from that to now my full-time

job but from the beginning I know colleagues who were fascinated but you know some people laughing at it and saying this is too fuzzy or this is too cute you know we really need to fight for a better world and one of my little mantras to myself which was this first sentence in my exhibition in Stockholm which I called gentle protest was if we want the world to be more beautiful just and kind then our activism should be more beautiful just and kind which I think is logical but it's still a fight I still have to discuss it with activists who say this is too cutesy but again over the years because I often work alongside charity so a lot of our projects will then link into a certain charity and say find out more information

here also sign their petition or go along to that march or use some of the facts from that charity in your work so it's always supporting each other rather than replacing each other that over the last seven years that I've been doing it there's definitely been a shift and the charity sector in the UK is small we're a small island we all know each other and what's been lovely is how supportive the sector has been and how interested they've been to see what works what can they use so a lot of the messaging now is much more encouraging rather than demonizing that I've seen and some of it's with my help and some of it I've heard from from people in different charities saying your project

really helped us do this template or that some of it I don't think I could claim but it's hard to claim anything and I don't want to claim anything I'm just happy it's being discussed more now and there's definitely I still sign lots of online petitions because it's so important as an element so we always need to say 100,000 people have signed this but charities know and I know that we also need to say this group of people who aren't activists who are loyal Marks and Spencers which is a shop customers genuinely care about Marks and Spencers not paying paying the living wage, thinks it's shocking. They're not affiliated with any charities. They're Marks and Spencers customers. And for Marks and Spencers as a brand, that scares them much more than a hundred activists

standing outside their shop or a hundred petitions signed by people that are faceless, that they don't know are customers or not so we need everything we still need lots of media we need you know often we need celebrities to help endorse a campaign but this is definitely again within that activism toolkit the sector has gone okay we've got the petitions we've got the stunts we've got this are we also having those respectful conversations with our allies or the people that we're trying to target and a lot of my work yeah people often refer to it or ask me to help them create projects for them whether they include craft or whether they're just more of gentle protest style we look a lot more about positive psychology rather than the negative stuff so there's a real

constant question and then the NGO sector but also constant pressure to reach the numbers to show how we measure success it's much easier to measure it through data collection that's cheaper than through you know much harder ways to measure social impact of how you've changed people's hearts and minds. That's a pretty difficult one. Yeah. And it's hard for you to sometimes see the fruits of your labor, right? To see, you know, I know that you do some embroidered banners and put them up. For example, there was one image that I saw during fashion week and the image said, you know, the average model or the lowest paid model during fashion week in London makes, I think it was 125 pounds per hour.

And then it said that, you know, an average worker in Malaysia. In Vietnam. It was Vietnam. Makes 25 pounds per month. Yeah. And so good to remember it. Yeah. It was a statement on a banner and it was, you know, it was sewn on and done with a lot of details. And by the way, if people want to see some of these images, you can go to www.craftivist-collective.com. Yeah. But so there was that image and then you know you put it up and then you know you don't know necessarily what what that causes and so how do you measure success

yeah oh i mean with that one that was one of the first projects i'd ever come up with because it was a very small banner so a bit sort of 15 centimetersres wide, 10 centimetres long, so very small, fits your palms of your hands, and it was always off eye level. So again, for me, I sort of go from looking at the problems I see and how to fix them rather than saying, I love craft, how can it fit in? So you would see a lot of giant banners in capital letters saying, no war, no sweatshops, no to this.

And for a lot of people including me I'd get quite defensive and feel like oh that's so huge it's invading my space I haven't decided to look at it yes it's important but it's not intriguing me to think about the issue and it can also have that overwhelm effect that you mentioned before like you're just going to shock yeah and aesthetically it's aggressive it's large they're often quite ugly images so I wanted to have these little very cute banners whether it was a quote or a fact or a statistic or a little message and a question with dot dot dots to intrigue people and would hang them somewhere relevant to the issue so that was inside Somerset House during fashion week

and Somerset House is the place where all of the designers, models, vloggers, everyone goes and I would take a really good photo so you could see it and a high-res image and people would start sharing it online everywhere because it wasn't saying we hate fashion, I love fashion, it was people felt like they could share it and go have you seen this and not feel like they have to know everything about it or have to say i agree or disagree but it made people think okay that's quite a big disparity between 25 pounds a month and 125 pounds an hour is that right is that wrong it didn't say so it could be that people go well maybe people in vietnam only

need 25 pounds a month but hopefully they'd look into that. Or maybe models being freelancers need that much, but it doesn't fit well. It doesn't seem right. And for the people who'd physically walk past it, because it's off eye level, you'd hope that, again, the psychology behind it is that you feel excited that you've found something. So you're a bit proud of yourself. So you're more likely to go up and read this small text you can't see from far away so you are more open to sort of engage with it and because it's very unusual image it's very pretty street art rather than

very loud or aggressive people want to share it on instagram or pinterest or whatever so in some ways i'll never know the impact on individuals I often get very long emails or letters from people who've seen something in a book of mine or in a magazine or have come to a workshop or taken part in one of my kits online who've written beautiful things about how it made them think about something they hadn't before and it's helped them you know really think about who made their clothes and if they shop ethically or how they do need to protest a bit more and and I love that so I always have them in an email happy box to sort of keep me going and you see it online with people sharing stuff where they might not share a charity

campaign because it can be very negative and they don't want to upset their friends even if they want to care about it they don't want people to roll their eyes or for people to say I disagree because my messages are very much like what do you think they're not judging anyone they do get spread much more so my measure of success in the case of the street art like the little banners is the message gets into places where you wouldn't normally see activism. But at the end of the day, all of us as craftivists and as activists will never truly know the impact we're making. You know, Martin Luther King would never have said, I claim victory. He would have said, we've done our bit here.

We've done this bit in Selma Rosa Parks has done her stuff on the buses you know how much did Malcolm X do that that helped the campaign because he was sort of bad cop good cop how much did the president himself decide that he was going to do it and not feel like Martin Luther King had any influence over it it could have been his wife whispering in his ear. We don't know at the end of the day. But I think looking at it as a whole picture, for me, having that image in London Fashion Week,

in Somerset House, that gets used in media all over the world, is one useful thing that craft can help with. Yeah. One question I have. So you are, like you you said you're involved with a lot of different um i don't want the campaigns or issues i mean they're all connected so it's hard to say that like but you mentioned living wage and well sweatshop labor and also climate change so you know these are all kind of interventions to the system what do you what

do you see as kind of the bigger overall problem like if we went upstream if we said what is the bigger issue here um and what's your relationship to that like do you keep that in mind while you do the work that you do do you try to do kind of more shift in consciousness type stuff and activism stuff or what's kind of your relationship to that great question and one I do ask myself all the time for me it started off as I care about these issues and I'm worried that only people within the activism bubble will hear about it so I'll do mini banners that go out I'll engage my MP in a different way to try and build a relationship with her so very much problem

solving in terms of the bigger picture for me I don't have one cause that I say right I'm just gonna work on sex trafficking for me it's very holistic probably because I grew up where I grew up where there was so many issues but there particularly it was about inequality it was about why have some people got millions and some people are struggling even though they might have three jobs so one of the key things that I think is the problem is inequality and it's not just bad for the poor it's bad for the rich so for rich people if you've got massive wealth in an area whether it's a whole island like the UK or whether it's just your village and someone else has got you know much less money than you as a rich person it adds stress it adds fear you're worried that you're going to be robbed you're worried that people are going to look at

you in a particular way it adds a lot of stress because you feel like you've got to keep making more for status reasons so for everyone inequality is bad and that's a big issue for me and I think if we can really tackle that it doesn't just help in terms of society cohesion it also helps in terms of the environment because we will look hopefully we will connect the dots and say so do we really need to keep um producing all these resources so that we can make more and more money do we really need to work 80 hours a week where we stop thinking we just focus on our target and we're in silos or can we afford to live on less money have a better way of life and look and have time to look holistically at where we're making a change

whether it's a positive one or a negative one and in the collective I could have gone down the route of we'll just focus on at the time I think climate change was a real worry for me about seven years ago and and saw it connecting to a lot of things whereas because it's grown organically I've had the luxury to be able to say, where is this helpful? And actually what's come out more and more and more is people don't know what activism is. So they often think it's donation or fundraising. Often people do activism that might actually fuel stereotypes or they might say that, you know, those poor people over over there we need to help them which is not

helpful for anyone and I think that craft can help them slow down and think through the issue for a lot of people who are scared of activism I'm offering them something for a lot of people who are burnt out I'm often I'm offering them something positive and sustainable so for me I've gone from doing lots of different projects to really creating a train sort of training resources really we've got different project kits on different issues from fashion to climate change lots of issues that people can do on that issue but also learn how we've made those projects in a way that the method could be translated in other ways so at the moment and it might change next year because everything changes quite often at the moment I see my work

as teaching people how to be effective craftivists and leading into how to be good global citizens and craft as a tool for that and seeing when people know how to do that methodology they can take it to whatever campaign they are engaged in and that's why I'm writing this book this year to add to those resources for people yeah so tell us tell us about the book the book so I have a little book already out it's been out for a couple of years called a little book of craftivism and it's 5.99 and it's lots of images and top tips and it fits in your back pocket and in a christmas stocking as a way again that's cheap and accessible for people to buy it for each other and go what do you think about this but in a very like gentle little way and i've got all the kits but

what i noticed over the last couple of years doing lots of workshops and talks and working with university students a lot as well and academics is people need more of the methodology because there is so many ways you could do it right and wrong you know I think about the minutiae of the colours we use the imagery we use how to position a good photograph like it sounds luxury to look at the detail but I mean it has an impact it has a massive impact and aesthetics has a massive impact so the book is a way for people to say because I can't travel the world there's only one of me and I don't want to use up lots of carbon emissions I thought it would be useful to have an in-depth book so we've got the little book as like a little soft invite for people we've got the kits and the other tools and then this is a

bigger book um not too huge you don't want to put people off but to go through the methodology of the power in the making for the maker how is that useful for your activism to slow down and think through issues to have make yourself something as a physical reminder to be a good human being and keep it a bit like we do with religions to how do you give a gift so it's a gift and not a manipulation tool the aesthetics how you do positive activism instead of negative i've got 20 chapters everything from graceful activism to how to do intriguing activism, all within the craftivism. So it's called How to Be a Craftivist, The Art of Gentle Protest.

So for me, that feels like a useful tool. And the more people I speak to and say, do you think this will be useful? They just want it now, which is great. So there does seem to be a demand for it. That's wonderful. And you also do workshops, you mentioned. What's kind of the style or the flow to the workshops that you lead? So my ideal workshop was to have a structured workshop for at least an hour.

Often it's with 12 people or less so that everyone can talk together. If it's more people, yesterday we had 31. So we were all in little less so that everyone can talk together if it's more people yesterday we have 31 so we were all in little tables so that it was still intimate and the structure is that you get your craftivism project i tell you a bit about the methodology i tell you where craft can be useful where it can be harmful so you know really getting us to challenge where this can help and then depending on the project depends on the workshop but each workshop will be structured with that introduction we'll make together we'll help each other make when everyone knows what they're doing stitch by stitch I have

little crafter thoughts which are questions for people to reflect on so a lot of people talk about how craft helps them get in the flow which basically means your mind can wander off for hours. And I talk about craftivism not having that. So when you do, your mind starts wandering. You look at these questions and reflect on them on your own or you discuss them as a group, whatever you prefer at that time. So yesterday we were doing stitchable change makers. So it was a dot to dot, which you did one of them. And it was really looking at that inner activism of, how can I be a good global citizen how can I use my gifts talents

opportunities contacts to really make a positive difference in a strategic way that's not going to bear me out and I had five different change makers three three women, two men, just to balance out equality in the world at the moment. So we had Eleanor Roosevelt, who's a famous introvert and a bit about the work that she'd done as a campaigner. So people could pick that and go, OK, I'm an introvert. So I'm going to learn how she's threaded her values through what she does while I stitch a portrait of her with these dots with thread and think about what values that went through her actions. And the other question would be, okay, what values are threaded through your actions?

So quite challenging. I mean, that was a very holistic one. Other projects will be more specific and you can see them on our website. But it was a great way for people to really go, OK, I have all these values. Am I acting them out? How does that fit in with what I'm doing in terms of what I'm buying or in terms of this campaign that I'm working on at the moment? So what change maker did you pick? Desmond Tutu.

Yeah. Yeah. And the quote about humanity is when we can be human together. Yeah. Yeah. Humanity is bound up in ours. We can only be human together. Yes. Meaning we're not on an island. You know, whether you like it or not, we have impact on each other. And we had Abraham Lincoln, Malala and J.K. Rowling. So very different people using the opportunities they have international international different ages different eras and people connected to the one that worked for them and the plan is that people go home with them and put them somewhere as a physical reminder that

they can be not try and be the next Malala but the best version of themselves and see where they're best positioned to to make a difference and make a change and I normally when people know what they're doing and they've chatted a bit and there's a bit of a lull I play a Mogwai song which is a Scottish band with no lyrics and we have one song where everyone I tell people they have they've got to pretend they have horse blinkers on so they don't look at each other. And again, they focus on their crafter thoughts. And then when the song's finished, they discuss what they were thinking. So it's quite highly facilitated to say, let's look at this message and this focus.

Don't talk about what you're going to eat for tea later or what film you just watched. Focus and discuss the issue. But because you don't need eye contact while you craft together it takes away a lot of the stress of opening up about something that's uncomfortable it takes away the stress of awkward silences that you feel like you have to fill with a solution that's quick you can sit and reflect and listen to other people about their journey which might spark ideas off for your journey and then everyone takes everything away often it's not finished because it's about slow activism so

I want people to do it slowly but you take away your kit to finish off and then I encourage people to share it their images online share their crafter thoughts online so I can retweet them and re-gram them to collective members around the world and other people and again keep that conversation and those thoughts going online as well as offline so this week and you might be listening to this in a few months time but at the moment it's fashion revolution week so there's a campaign organization called fashion revolution that I support very closely and think the founders are amazing and they're very supportive of my work and this sunday is the

anniversary of the rana plaza disaster in bangladesh which happened i think it was three years ago now where over a thousand garment workers died because the factory collapsed because it was built really badly lots of factory workers in there from everywhere from Zara to Primark to Gap big brands and these garment workers were being treated awfully no unions very poor wages very long hours and the collapse really put a spotlight on the ugly side of fashion we hadn't seen such an enormous disaster really so two fashion designers said this is so awful we've got to have a revolution in the fashion industry it's been so hidden we've got to use this disaster and turn it into something positive not just for the people directly affected and the the compensation for

them but also to change the industry so the project we did in the afternoon again very different because they all have different briefs was to make these mini scrolls it's the only project I got that doesn't include stitching so it's paperwork and I have three messages which are stories and you handwrite them very slowly in your neatest handwriting on little strips of paper ideally with a felt and pen so very beautiful aesthetically with a little embossed pair of scissors and you pick one of three messages that resonates with you but it's all about the fashion industry so it might say if your clothes could talk what would they say would it be a story of beauty and love or would it be a torturous story from the person who made it and at the end of each message it would

have an at fash underscore rev which is the twitter account for fashion revolution and even if people aren't on twitter you know to google that and find out more information and we would roll them up put beautiful little ribbon bow around each scroll which is only about five centimeters wide very small and then we would shop drop them instead of shoplift you shop drop so you put these little scrolls which we call mini fashion statements into shops ideally in unethical shop pockets of shirts and bags so that customers or people trying them on would find them find this beautiful scroll on the outside says please open me with a smiley face and a kiss which you all had to do and be excited to open them but then get this gentle protest of saying have you thought about who made your clothes

have you thought about the industry we're part of so it's a gift but a gift to get people to think and talk and for the makers it's a lovely chance for people to ask what message did you pick why did you pick that let's talk about the industry you know have we thought about who made our clothes if we haven't we're not judging each other we're saying how can we look more at it and you were there we were all around a big table together and it was lovely the conversations I was hearing was really fascinating very gentle way of challenging ourselves as well as going home with a handful of little scrolls to proactively put in places an action item yeah I feel like again you're part of it we're not of little scrolls to proactively put in places an action item yeah i feel like

again you're part of it we're not saying these scrolls are the solution we're saying these scrolls are part of the solution and we made a little video which i got you all to watch beforehand of some people who'd never campaigned before and they were shop dropping so you could see the nerves how nervous they were before they did it and how empowered they felt afterwards yeah with one of the women I was sitting next to I had a conversation and we were talking about you know the activism in our lives and she said well you know I don't really do any activism because I don't really see any problems in where I am, you know, in southwest England. And she said, yeah, and since I don't really do anything to support any kind of activism,

but I also don't contribute to anything bad, so it's all good, right? And then in a non-judgmental way, it was a great opportunity to just say, okay, well, I was just like, can I ask you a question? Like, have you thought about where you bank? Like, just like, where is your money which is an enormous one that's easy to move exactly when people say i'm going to fight against the arms trade and you think what one of the biggest and easiest things you could do is move your money yes and there's actually a website called moveyourmoney.org yeah and I promote them a lot to people when people say what can I do about about war my immediate answer is one of the things you can do is look at where you bank and if you can move it and it's tangible and it's you know accessible

and it's but people don't realize they can do that and I know one one other thing that you do in your uh workshops is you have space for a craft clinic. Can you just describe what that experience is and what kind of change it's created for people or what they've said? Yeah, I do this craftivist clinic where people can come and book an appointment with me. I have medicine bottles, which is antidotes for activists. and bottles which is um antidotes for activists so we'll have a bottle of empathy and a small jar of um humility and all of the things that we need as activists that often we forget that people can look at and see if they need a dose of them but it's about having these one-to-ones with people that it's very much about them so i have again i have some questions to prompt people beforehand that

they can think about to think about what they want to discuss anything from are you doubting your effectiveness as an activist let's discuss that are you feeling burnt out are you so overwhelmed you don't know where to start is it your craftivism project you want to discuss it and look at any tips that you need so a real mix and I get you know I've done it all over the world now in the last few months and it's fascinating what people come with so some people will come and say I'm overwhelmed I've never done activism before I'm scared of politics where do I start and I always prescribe three things and then I write it on the beautiful

letter pressed cards that are made in Bristol on zero carbon paper and I write it on the beautiful letter pressed cards that are made in Bristol on zero carbon paper and I sign it as the doctor and they sign it as the patient and we stamp it and they take it away with them it's a bit like homework but again they can keep it because it's very beautiful as well so I'll recommend three things so if someone says I don't know where to start it might be that I recommend them do a daily timeline from the time they wake up to the time they go asleep when I wake up what clothes am I putting on where are they made what am I eating for breakfast is it as sustainable as possible if I'm driving to work every day can I car share or cycle or go on the bus and look at those sort of ethical living

questions where do I bank all of those questions or it might be let's look at those sort of ethical living questions where do I bank all of those questions or it might be let's look at your circle of influence and say okay well who do you know if David Cameron our current prime minister is your uncle you've actually got quite a lot of influence there how would you be able to use that or if you want to engage David Cameron but you don't know anyone who knows him it's going to be quite difficult so maybe he's not your priority of someone to contact but looking there and sometimes it's craftivism projects saying what about trying this project that we've done that links in with the issue you care about as a way to think through it or if you're struggling with a journalist that you know when you're in the place that you live that's fuelling xenophobia

maybe you make them a hanky or something similar. Sometimes I recommend films like Selma, the Martin Luther King film to say look at how he's very strategic in what he does but very graceful or watch the film Coriolanus to try and empathize with dictators because Coriolanus the William Shakespeare story Coriolanus is a horrible human being but at the heart of that film and that play you try and understand how Coriolanus is so violent so it's a very powerful film to try and empathize with people you struggle with so really having these one-to-ones to try and bring out what are people lacking that they need support with whether it's physical

making or whether it's empathy whether it's knowledge so there's a lovely books that I recommend short books or comic books so it's not too much about a particular issue. So a huge range, but again, what's coming out of that is just people feeling like they might know a lot of theory or know a lot of information about an issue, but they just don't know what to do. And I think working in the charity sector and working as an activist my whole life, that's a real flaw, a fail yeah for me and my colleagues because we haven't

clearly we haven't been teaching people what activism means what they can do and we need to work on that and this is one way that I can help you know you mentioned that at one point you were burnt out so how do you yeah how do you you know with all the great offers and opportunities and things even if they're beautiful kind and just how do you how do you practice self-care how do you, you know, with all the great offers and opportunities and things, even if they're beautiful, kind and just, how do you practice self-care? How do you not get burnout, even when it's beautiful and amazing opportunities? And it's really hard. I mean, my line of work, one, it's about social change and it's creative work. Both don't pay particularly well, unless you work for a big organization but I'm very stubborn with

what I do I only I get lots of offers which is incredible but I only do the work that I believe in and often it's paid very small amounts because we're all struggling and doing as much as we can we don't make huge profit because it goes against what we do so financially it's a constant struggle and you know I'm an introvert so actually I've got to be really careful on how many workshops I do it's different with talks because it's not lots of interaction but I travel a hell of a lot so I do worry that I'm going to become a burnt out craftivist which would be ironic and you know contradictory and hypocritical in lots of ways so I yeah I really need to to look at what's sustainable what's possible how to run a social enterprise in a sustainable way where I have to say to people you have to

buy a kit because no one's paying for it or could you do a direct debit support for us so we can do good work without having to just go where the money is but it's a real struggle so if any listeners have any ideas of how I can make this sustainable for me and for the organization then do get in touch and isn't it true that once someone kind of goes to the a workshop or, they're part of the collective? So talk about the wider community and how people can get involved. So it's very much, it's not an arts collective where you have a certain amount of people in a physical space. It's a collective of people around the world. And the way you join in is you take one of our kits, make a cup of tea, do it on your own or with a group,

go through the process that's all very rigorous in your instruction sheet share your thoughts share your progress and your final product you tag us in it on social media or send it to us as a blog you can blog for us if you email us and if you don't use social media and again it comes back to that point of realistically where can you help there's only one of us where am i best placed so the kits are a great way for people to start without me physically having to be there and for them to take ownership but also what i love is seeing online people comment on on each other's progress and craft of thoughts saying i was thinking that too well i love that you've done that can i share that with my friends over here so i hope it does feel like a lovely

community i feel like a i'm part of a lovely growing community so um hopefully people anyone feels like it's accessible to them thank you and if you want to know more about the Craftivist Collective, you can visit it at www.craftivist-collective.com. You've been listening to an upstream interview with Sarah Corbett. Thank you.