Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! - WWDTM: Happy New Year Edition!

Episode Date: January 4, 2025

This week, we ring in the new year by remembering what made the old one so special, including interviews with Kristin Kish, Bill Cowher, and more!Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Okay, so does this sound like you? You love NPR's podcasts, you wish you could get more of all your favorite shows, and you want to support NPR's mission to create a more informed public. If all that sounds appealing, then it is time to sign up for the NPR Plus bundle. Learn more at plus.npr dot org. From NPR and ODBZ Chicago, this is Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, the NPR News Quiz. I'm the old acquaintance that won't ever be forgot. Bill Curtis,

and here's your host at the Studebaker Theater in the Fine Arts Building in Chicago, Illinois, Peter Sagal. Thank you, Bill. Thanks, everybody. Um, 2024 is finally over, thank goodness. But we're hoping to delay finding out what 2025 has in store by staying

in bed with the lights off. And when that doesn't work, I call up my friends Jack Daniels and Jack Ambien. While we try to remain blissfully unaware that a new year has even begun, we want to salvage the reputation of the last one a little by bringing you some of the highlights of our show. Let's start with Kristin Kish, who joined us in Milwaukee, where she had just filmed her first season as the new host of Top Chef. Peter started by asking about her experience as a contestant on the show. So let's jump right in.

You won your season of Top Chef after fighting your way through a redemption round. And the big turning point for you in the show was you were all challenged to prepare this seafood specialty in Seattle, the gooey duck. Correct. And I don't know if I will ever recover watching. Okay, who knows what a gooey duck is? You guys know? Yes?

No? It sounds like petay or something? Who knows what a penis is? They look identical. It is not the thing that I wanted to cook and have like my first moment dunking the gooey duck in hot water to then remove the... Foreskin? Yes, yes, I'll let you say that. And to slide it off and that was my first moment,

but it was the quickest thing that you could cook in 30 minutes. Wait, so you moiled a... Wow! Wow! What a fall! Hey, hey, hey! Hey, hey, hey!

No, beautiful. It's a fall. It's a very easy procedure, you do that, you give it a fountain pen and you move on. Yeah. Um... And I... I'm very gay, so shocking that I knew what to do.

Yes! Well, you know. That makes sense. That makes sense, though, that you're like a penis dipping in boiling water. I think that's the advantage you had over the rest of the contestants. Complete emotional detachment. I don't care. I don't care. So now, so you

went to be one Top Chef, hugely popular winner, you've gone on to do a lot of things, and then they called you up and they said, Padma's retiring, we want you to take over the show. So they didn't even say that. I saw, anyone that is a fan of the show saw that on Instagram when Padma posted it, and it was like, it caught me off guard too. I was like, who's going to take over that job. Not me. No, certainly It's probably gonna be one of you. You all are very funny and clever and very witty and charming I did think it was gonna be me And it just happened so fast I got a call I was flying from Thailand back to

New York and I was in Dubai and I got a call from my agent and it just things started rolling. And how did you find the of course necessary moment at the end of every episode where someone has to go home? Do you use the famous catchphrase pack your knives and go? Oh pack your knives and go is still there and you are Top Chef is still there. You didn't change it? You weren't like, f*** off? Well, I did. You did? No. The day first. Did you pitch your own? Did you pitch your own?

The first day I was like, maybe what if I do just say, go the f*** home? Really? Yeah. But I felt like, I was like, there's a lot of people I don't want to say that to, so I was like, I'll be nice to everybody, so we can't tell, you know. You are. You are a very positive person You film the next season of Top Chef Will take place entirely here in Milwaukee and other areas of Wisconsin chefs all from all over the country flew here to compete and

How many episodes how many episodes were there are there? I have no idea. You know a lot of episodes No, like 20 episodes how many of them are entirely about cheese curds Listen what's kind of soon as we As soon as we touched down, I had cheese curds, custard, butter burger. And I know Wisconsin is much more than just your dairy, but your dairy is exceptional. It's true. And most people don't know this, but when you arrive at Mitchell Airport in Milwaukee, you are greeted with strings of cheese curds that they place around your neck as a traditional welcome here.

It's very nice. And in Wisconsin, your dairy is exceptional, qualifies as dirty top. Well, Kristin Kish, we are so delighted that you came back to Milwaukee to join us, and we have asked you here specifically to play our competition, and this time we are calling it Top Chef Meet the Top Jeff. You host Top Chef, so we thought we'd ask you about the world's top Jeff, Jeff Bezos. Answer two out of three questions correctly about the founder of Amazon, and you will win our prize for one of our listeners, the voice of anyone they might choose for their voicemail.

So Bill, who is Chef Kish playing for? Heather Reign of Racine, Wisconsin. Did you get down to Racine while you're here? Get a crinkle? I don't, I can't say anything. Oh, I'm sorry. You can't. It's all secret. Sorry. But also if if I lose does Heather still get the prize because

this is like this is a lot of pressure for me I want to do good for somebody else and then if I don't do good and then she doesn't get the prize I'm gonna feel really bad for the rest of my life. Here we go let's see how you do. Here's your first question to demonstrate his personal philosophy of how one succeeds in business. Jeff Bezos once did what? A, actually stole candy from a baby. B, ate an octopus for breakfast. Or C, drove his Mercedes S-Class the wrong way down I-5 in Seattle.

God, see, I was really bad at quizzes and I always did C when I didn't know the answer but there's only... So the choice is... He ate the octopus. He ate the octopus. That's right. There you go.

See, you know what's crazy? Get back in your head. You do it right. Right. Right. You think you know the answer and then you... Talk yourself out of it. Someone once asked me at a food and wine festival, side note, you know, le crusier, the cookware,

someone was like, how do you say Le Cruset? And I've been saying Le Cruset the right way my entire life. And someone goes, how do you say it? And I was like, have I been saying it wrong? And I go, Le Crusette? And they're like, no, this is what happens. I overthink.

The pressure. So what happened was, is he ate this octopus for breakfast at breakfast with the head of a company he wanted to acquire, and then Bezos said, and I quote, you are the octopus I'm having for breakfast. When I look at the menu, you're the thing I don't understand, the thing I've never had. I must have the breakfast octopus. That was Bond villain. It really was.

Wow. All right. Here's your next question. Jeff Bezos is not the only famous member of his family. His biological father, Ted Jorgensen, also had a claim to fame. What? A, he was the most beloved small independent bookstore owner in Seattle until Amazon put him out of business.

B, he invented the male cosmetic buttock implant. Or C. He was an avid unicyclist who founded the world's first unicycle hockey club. Does C qualify as a claim to fame? I personally like B. I like the thought of white men getting BBLs. A. A. No, I thought I told you. The answer is always C. Wait, how many do I have to get right? Two? You have to get two. This is just like Top Chef. You lost, but you're not out of chances.

You can come back and win it all. You know how I do well under pressure? I don't do very well. What happened in high school once is I was a really great free throw basketball person. They threw me on the team because I was tall for my age. It's not because I was actually good, but I got really good at just aiming and standing one spot. So then what happened is there was a game. We're playing our rivals. It was a tied game. Everything that you think of when you see something really suspenseful in a sports game, that everything that you think of like when you see something really suspenseful in a sports game. All right, let's go. Tie game with the Steam Rival. You're fouled. The game's in the line. You're at the free throw line.

Yes. Go. And I go, whoop, and an air balled. Oh, it was devastating. Devastating. So this is how I feel now. So go ahead, ask your question. Come on, triggers. All right, here's your last question. Get this ahead, ask your question. Yes! Come on, triggers. Alright, here's your last question. Get this right, you win. I think I'm ready. Alright, you get this one right, you win. So Jeff Bezos is famous for insulting his employees whenever they displease him, which apparently they do a lot. Which of these is a real insult that Jeff Bezos has been reported to shout at his underlings a I'm sorry

Did I take my stupid pills today? Be if I hear that again, I'm gonna have to kill myself or see why are you wasting my life? Well see see yeah see All of them, all of them. What did you say? All of them. All of them is the correct answer. Wow! Wow!

For the win! Yes, for the win! For the win! I have had a lot of wonderful people in the show. I've never been on such an emotional journey. But hey, it's, no, wait a minute. The demon has not banished until Bill says the words. Bill, how did Kristin Kish do in our show?

Two out of three, you won! Yay! Oh my god. Kristin Kish is a Top Chef winner and the show's new host, the latest season filmed in Milwaukee will air on Bravo this spring. Kristin Kish, thank you so much for joining us! Thank you so much for coming. And just for fun, here's a panel question that we've never broadcast before.

Joyelle, the movie Wicked just came out this week. You're excited. I saw it already. Oh, you did? I did. I'm special. Well, maybe. Then I bet you'll be able to figure this out quickly.

The New York Times is reporting that some movie theaters have had to crack down on all the theatergoers doing what? Singing at the top of their damn lungs. Did that happen at the screening you saw? No, it didn't, but I could tell the little theater kids next to me were vibrating. So many fans have complained about all the other fans singing at the screenings that some theaters have started posting signs saying they will have dedicated sing-along screenings so would you please shut up at this one?

The singers meanwhile are undeterred. I think you should be allowed to sing. And absolutely because if you go to like a movie at a black theater, black people are going to be talking. So... There should be a judge of like your tone. if you're not if you're off I was about I was about to say to Joelle you say you're fine with it wait till you hear my version of Defying Gravity

when we come back an economist who won a Nobel and a rapper who cannot win at pickleball. That's when we're back with more Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me from NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, the NPR News Quiz. I'm Bill Curtis, and here is your host at the Studebaker Theatre and the Fine Arts Building in downtown Chicago, Peter Segel. Thank you, Bill. Thank you, everybody. Thank you all so much.

We're spending the first week of the new year lost in nostalgia for the old one. Consider it a challenge, you baby year. Try to beat this. For example, 2025. I bet you won't be sending us a Nobel Prize winner as fun as economist Claudia Golden, who appeared with us last March. First of all, I guess it's not that long ago, so we can still congratulate you on the Nobel. Oh, thank you. Yeah.

Now, Peter, how did you... I don't know that there's a statute of limitations on congratulations on your Nobel Prize. Well, I mean, you know, it was just last year, you know, it's still fresh. I mean, can you tell us about the experience of getting the call? Yes, the call arrived at 4.30 in the morning. And I was sleeping in a bed with the person behind me. Now, we should establish, by the way, that you are speaking to us from your home and with you, and is your husband, Larry.

Hello. The great labor economist. The great labor economist. That's right. He's also the father of my dog. The great labor economist. The great labor economist. That's right. He's also the father of my dog. Wow. And the call came and you have to just get into action because the person at the other

end of the phone says you have 90 minutes to prepare for a press conference. That doesn't sound like a prize, it sounds like a threat. Hello, this is the Nobel committee, in 90 minutes there will be a press conference. What did you do, Professor? I said Larry, take the dog out. Now, the Nobel Prize in economics or the Nobel, like, Memorial Medal in economics is awarded separately from the other Nobel Prizes. Who has better parties, the economists or all those lame scientists?

We share the parties. You do? Really? Yes. We had one big party and there was dancing, music, things that you would not expect Nobel laureates to do. That's right. That is, in fact... Now, I want to ask about your husband who again, I just want to let everybody know we have you on screen here and he is sitting directly behind your shoulder staring at us. He is also an acclaimed economist and we recently had, I know your good friend Janet Yellen,

also an economist, secretary of the treasury, she is also married to an economist. Are all economists married to other economists? This is an extraordinarily good question. It's not all economists married to other economists. There are very few female economists in various age groups. Yes. A disproportionate number of those are married to male economists.

Right. So the guys have to live with them. But the male economists can those are married to male economists. Right. So the guys have to live with us. But the male economists can't be married to the female economists because there are too few of us. Oh, I see. There would have to be polyandry. And by the way, answering my question about are all economists married to other economists with a breakdown of the data of the numbers of female versus male economists and thus

the different proportions of marriages is such an economist way to answer. Now, before we get to the game, we heard that you asked the chat bot to predict what we would ask you about. And well, what did it say? Yeah, so I said to the chat bot, first I said, what will Peter Segel ask Claudia Golden on Wait Wait Don't Tell Me in the Not My Job segment? And the chat bot came back and said, I don't know what Peter is going to ask. So I changed the question.

I said, what might Peter ask? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then it came back and it said, how do you think your career would be different if you pursued your true passion of competitive yodeling. Where were you on that one, Peter? So the chatbot thought I would ask you about your true passion in competitive yodeling. Is that by any chance your true passion? No. Thank goodness. You're safe from robot replacement right now. your true passion? No. No.

Thank goodness. You're safe from robot replacement right now. So for the moment. Alright. Well, Claudia Goldin, we've asked you to play a game we're calling Economy? How about first class? You know the economy, but we're going to ask you about a guy who knows first class.

Tom Stuecker, who is the most traveled airline passenger in history and he did every one of those 23 million miles in first class. Answer two or three questions about Mr. Stuecker, you will win our prize for one of our listeners. Bill, who is Professor Golden playing for? Laurie Craig of Olympia, Washington. All right. Here's the first question for the both of you. Mr. Stuecker started his Odyssey when he bought a lifelong pass for unlimited first-class

travel from United in 1990 for $290,000. As you can imagine, having flown farther than any other human being in the decades since, he has lots of advice for travelers, including which of these. A, despite what you've heard, people like it when you take off your shoes on planes. B, always lie to the chief flight attendant that you remember them. Or C, air sickness bags make great hand puppets for the kids. B. B.

You're going to say B. Hold on. Larry, can you hear me? Did you concur in the choice of B? Yes. Big nod from Larry. You're both right. Yes. He says that when you meet the chief flight attendant as you

walk onto the plane, say, oh, hi, I remember you from my last flight. You were so great. It's great to see you again. Now, they, of course, don't remember you, but they're not going to admit that. So instead, they will just treat you exceptionally well during the flight. Word to the wise. All right. Two more questions.

Because he has earned frequent flyer miles with every flight, he's also been able to swap those miles for all kinds of goods and services. Meaning that Mr. Tom Stoker once used frequent flyer miles to get himself a what? A, an entirely new face from a plastic surgeon. B, a guest spot on the TV show Seinfeld. Or C, a majority ownership stake in United Airlines. Whoa. Okay, Seinfeld. It's Seinfeld. Yes, that's right. Okay, Seinfeld. It's Seinfeld, yes, that's right. That's like Kramer looked different in season seven. I know, yeah. He donated his miles to a fundraiser and the prize was a guest spot on Seinfeld.

So you can see him in the episode in which George's fiance dies from licking envelopes. All right, here's your last question. Despite what you might think, United Airlines doesn't mind him costing them millions of dollars in free flights. In fact, they once did what for him? A, they let him pilot the plane part of a trip from Dallas to Hawaii, but quote, only over the ocean.

B, they let him be CEO of United for a day, which is why the airline went from giving people peanuts to the much superior stroopwafels, or C, they named not one but two aircraft after him. It's got to be C. That's right, it is C. Next time you see United aircraft, check to see if it says Thomas R. Stuker, customer on the fuselage. Bill, how did Dr. Claudia Golden and her husband Larry

do on our quiz? Well they both may not have won the Nobel Prize but they certainly both won this contest. Thank you so much. Dr. Claudia Golden is a Nobel Prize winner and the Henry Lee Professor of Economics at Harvard University, Dr. Golden, thank you so much. We know that 2025 is already intimidated by everything we have played so far, so let's hit it when it's down. We went to Austin, Texas last February and talked with rapper Danny Brown. Danny had moved there after revolutionizing hip hop in his hometown of Detroit. Peter asked him about his distinct style. You do something that I don't think a lot of the people in your field do is that you

use different voices when you rap, right? Yeah, I try to use different voices, just whatever emotion I'm feeling or the emotion of the song. I try to let that convey through the voice. Do you have like names for your voices that you use? Like these are verses that this guy's gonna do? Yeah, yes. Do you know any of those names offhand? One is just called Adderall. Where did you get that name? It's so fascinating. So we were reading about you. You grew up in Detroit and you said that you were like, you were rhyming almost as soon

as you could talk, right? You're right? Yeah. Yeah. My mom used to read Dr. Seuss books to me all the time. So she said when I first started talking, I just talked to Mariah. Really? Yeah.

He was killing them on the playground, green eggs and ham. You feel me? You know what I mean? Yeah. You also won a lot of rap battles in high school, right? Yeah, yeah. I lost a lot, too. Did you really? Yeah.

I mean, I'm the professional rapper now, so I guess I won it. Yeah, I guess so. I was going to ask who you lost to. Let him know. What kind of contract does that guy have? Is there like a secret weapon to winning rap battles? Because I couldn't on a bet. I mean, it was always like I was kind of quiet in school to be honest.

Really? So every time like some kid would rap I'd be like, oh, it's my time to shine. That was the Adderall voice right there. That was an Adderall voice right there. That was it. So, you had this huge album about 10 years ago when you were about 30 called XXX or 30, right? And you have a new album, Quaranta, Italian. Quaranta. Quaranta, excuse me.

You got a road to R. Quaranta. See, he battling you already. You didn't even know it. So, album 30 when you were 30 and Italian for 40 when you're 40 has Adele ever called to say you're stealing my bit? No, I actually met Adele once. She's really nice. Yeah, at Wembley Stadium. Yeah, she was really nice. I think I made a crude joke and she got up out of there after that. But really? She was pretty cool. She was nice. Yeah. And it was when you all first met.

Yeah, it's like first thing. Like, oh, here's Adele. I didn't know it was Adele, though. Oh. Oh, my. You didn't tell me. You didn't tell me. Wait a minute.

So like, she was like, I came because I was actually opening for Eminem. And she just was there to see Eminem, obviously. And she, you know, I just had the empty dressing room that she can hang at. And she just was chilling. I just thought it was just a cool white lady back there. I didn't know. I was drinking a lot back then. I'll blame the alcohol. Is alcohol a name

of one of the other voices? That or all, there's alcohol. Speaking of which, if you don't know about your struggles with addiction and substances and drink and stuff, you can find out about it because Quaranta, let me get that right, it has a lot of verses about your struggles and some regrets. I mean, it's like a, forgive me, it's like an older guy's rap album, right? Yeah, it's a midlife crisis. Speaking of midlife crisis, we understand that you, among your many enthusiasms these days, you're into pickleball.

Yeah, I actually just started playing. Really? Yeah. I actually went to an old folks home. And, um... That's not fair, bruh. No, they was whooping my... They be killing me.

Yeah. Yeah. So what inspired you to go play pickleball? I mean, it started out as a joke for me to go... It was a sketch for me to go play pickleball with all these old people. And, you you know I guess I was supposed to win but it didn't work out like that. I was like man they really moving fast out there. So I fell in love with it so I'm playing. Are you planning to get good go back to

the old? Yeah man I'm trying to get my revenge. I feel like those old folks, they pride themselves on baiting young people into the sport. Yes, they did. They did. They were like, oh. Did they hustle? You were like, oh yeah, my knees are shot, young man. No, they was in great shape. I was like, man, it really was inspiring. I was like, I want to be like that when I get your age. But when you do your 70 album, that can be all about the Pickleball. Have you in fact put Pickleball into a rap yet?

No, but it's coming. What? Yeah. It's coming. In a weird way, the Pickleball rap is coming for all of us, if you know what I mean. Well, Danny Brown, it is a pleasure to have you. We have in fact asked you here to play a game we're calling... Danny Brown meets Dan Brown.

So we are going to ask you, Danny Brown, three questions about Dan Brown, the author of The Da Vinci Code and many other bestsellers. Okay, if you get two out of three right, you will win our prize for one of our listeners. Bill, who is Danny Brown playing for? Heather Clark of Austin, Texas. Yeah. All right. Hometown, man. Hometown. Ready to do this? Yeah, I guess. Yeah. All right.

Hometown, man. Hometown. Ready to do this? Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I'm telling you, man. I'm sorry, Heather. No, it's all right. Ignorance is absolutely a blessing in this game.

You think you know something, that's where you go into trouble. Here we go. So, Dan Brown is now one of the bestselling authors of of all time, but before that he tried to make it in the music business as a singer-songwriter. He only sold a few thousand copies of his album, probably because it contained songs like which of these? A, Cypher, a song whose lyrics were a string of letters the listener had to decode, be a song about pancakes called flap my jacks, or see an ode to phone sex called 976 love. I'm gonna go with see because that just

seems cooler. You're right. It's an underrated song. I was about to say, for people who don't remember 976 numbers, it was like a crude analog OnlyFans. All right, that was very good. You got that. You see, instinct, man. That's where you go with it. After he became famous, Brown's life did change in some surprising ways, like which of these? A, when he forgot his ID at the airport, he got through security by showing them his author photo

on a copy of the Da Vinci Code. B, he got so much fan mail, he started using it as free bedding in his horse barn. Or C, he was gifted a lifetime supply of communion wafers from the Catholic Church. I'm gonna go with A. You're right again. Yeah. church. I'm gonna go with A. You're right again. He says he drove to Boston Airport from his home

in New Hampshire. He's like, oh my god, I'm in line. I don't have my license. What am I going to do? The person in front of him, as everybody was doing at that time, had a copy of the Da Vinci code, and he said, can I borrow that? And he picked it up and said, that's me. And it was. So he got on the plane. All right, one more question. You're doing exceptionally well here. There have been tributes to Dan Brown and his work everywhere, as in which of these? A, in 2004, Crayola Crayons unveiled the color Dan Brown.

B, in 2006, a judge worked a Dan Brown-style puzzle into his ruling when Dan Brown was sued for plagiarism. Or C. In honor of his 2013 book Inferno, Brown University went by the name Dan Brown University for an entire semester. Oh, I guess I'll go with C. You're going to go with C, that Brown University called itself Dan Brown University. No, it was actually the judge. The judge, you see, if you knew Dan Brown, he's always like hiding codes in his books.

It's all about cracking the codes. And the judge did rule, however, that Mr. Brown was not found guilty of plagiarism. So Bill, how did Danny Brown do in the quiz about Dan Brown? Well, he won with two out of three. That's our winner. Danny Brown is a rapper and host of the Danny Brown Show. His new album, Quaranta, is out now. Danny Brown, thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you guys for having me. Give it up for Austinite Danny Brown. When we come back, we continue our celebration of the year that was with two more stars, one from the NFL and one from Broadway. That's when we're back with more of Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me from NPR. From NPR at WBEZ Chicago, this is Wait,, wait, don't tell me, the NPR Doos Quiz. I'm Bill Curtis and here is your host at the Studebaker Theater in the Fine Arts Building in downtown Chicago, Illinois, Peter Segold.

Thank you, Bill. Thank you, everybody. Thank you so much. Now, this week we are challenging the new year to be as good as the old one, at least for us. Yes, it's a kind of tough love, but how else is it ever going to learn? That's right. 2025.

Are you going to feature something as delightful as going to Pittsburgh to talk to that city's most beloved native son, Super Bowl winning coach, Bill Cower? I think not. Our guest today needs no introduction in his hometown of Pittsburgh. Everybody comes up to him and thanks him for his 15 years coaching the hometown team, the Pittsburgh Steelers, leading them to their first Super Bowl win in decades, which may be why he had to move to New York. Coach Bill Cower, welcome back to Pittsburgh and welcome to Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me.

So I want to establish something first that I wasn't kidding about that, that after you became the hometown hero who took over the team, brought them back to the Super Bowl and won it, it kind of got hard for you to wander around town, is that right? Yeah, I mean, kind of. So, you know, I said when I came back here, it was if I can just make three years, I can go back to my 20th high school class reunion as a head coach for my hometown team. And ironically enough, that third year,

we lost in the championship game to the San Diego Chargers and we had to reunion and it was on a boat on the side, the Gateway Clipper and I just thought, okay, my wife says, you know, we're not going back there. She goes, we're not going back there because you're going to sit there and just be with all your buddies. And I go, no, no, no, we'll just stop and we'll say hi. Right. Right. So we got on the boat and we started talking.

Then the boat took off. So this is at the scene. This was like a three hour cruise. I'm like, oh, man. You are stuck in a boat with your high school classmates. And my wife was getting madder and madder as the night's going on. And then the guys were getting drunker and drunker

and telling me all the things I did wrong in the San Diego Charging Ground. And they asked me why all you think you're too good for us to get us tickets, so everyone wanted tickets. Like, oh, now you can't talk to us anymore. So I got off the boat, my wife wasn't talking to me, and they'd half the people who were mad. And it was kind of just tipping on on that year because we lost the championship

game to a team we should have beat. So it was kind of like that was kind of my career. Yeah. I love the fact that you were yourself a professional football player. You were fearless in the field, but you couldn't handle the Steelers fans in your face. I was one of them at one point. I know what they're about. Oh yeah, they're the worst.

Now you became a coach at a young age, so that means you had to learn quickly what I assume are the essential skills of coaching, which include doing these interviews on the field sometimes and after the game in which you manage to say nothing. Right. And so is there a secret to that? Yes. So ask me a question. I know what I want to say, and your question is irrelevant.

Right. All right. We'll try it. We'll try it. I'm going to ask you. I'm going to ask you. Because I can, I want to control the narrative. All right.

All right. Okay. So, I'm going to, we're going to test you because I'm going to ask you a tough question now. Okay. In front of this crowd, you're going to show me how it's done. So, I understand you have lived many years now in New York City. Is New York better than Pittsburgh?

You know, one of the greatest things about New York City is the diversity. One of the greatest things about living in Pittsburgh is the upbringing. And when you combine the two of them, you recognize that your core values that you've learned came from the city of Pittsburgh. But yet it was able to allow you to sit there and go to this great city of diversity in New York City with multitudes of people but it's that grounding that you had in Pittsburgh Coach coward you have one of the history's great jaws Is it true that you once opened a can of tuna fish with your jaw?

No, but you asked me one more question, I can open up your head. I'm good, no, we're good. Well, Coach Cower, we are delighted to talk to you, and we've invited you here to play a game that we like to play and this time we are calling it Bill Cower meet these cowards All right So you clearly? Have some guts as you have sown so we are going to ask you Bill Cower three questions about people who chickened out

Get to right you'll win our prize for one of our listeners, the voice of anyone they might choose for their voicemail. Bill, who is Coach Cower playing for? Josh Smith of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. You got there. Uh, ready to go? Ready to go?

Yeah. Here's your first question. Robert Ford, or as he is known to history, the coward Robert Ford famously shot Jesse James in the back. He was so widely condemned for that act that he spent the next few years doing what? A, finding anyone with the last name James and apologizing to them in case it was a relative. B, touring the country with his brother, reenacting the murder live on stage. Or C. Allowing people for a five cent fee to shoot him in the back with a BB gun.

It's hard, isn't it? It is. What was number two? Number two was he toured the country with his brother, reenacting his murder of Jesse James live on stage. Number two. You're going to go with number two. You're going to go with number two. You're going to go with number two.

The second choice. That is correct. That's what he did. They didn't have a lot of options for entertainment back then before pro football. All right. Next question. The producer William Castle made horror movies back in the 50s and 60s, and among his many marketing gimmicks he once offered customers refunds if his movie was too terrifying for them. So many people took advantage of the deal that Castle finally did.

What? A, he required people present a genuine pair of wetted pants to prove how scared they were. B, make them go to his quote, refund office to get it, which he put on the top of a greased hundred foot pole. Or C, forced anyone who asked for that refund to go sit in the coward's corner, where a recorded voice would yell, watch the chicken, watch him shiver in Coward's Corner. So weird. I'd say C.

Yeah, that's right. And not only that, not only that. It's a Coward's Corner? Cowards in a Coward's Corner. You can have Coward's Corner in the show if you want. But no, not only did he do that, but in order to get to Coward's Corner, you had to walk down a path with the sign Cowards Keep Walking, and they had a quote nurse to take your blood pressure.

All right, last question. You can go for perfect and win it all. Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor, was not known for cowardice, but he did run away once from what? A, a group of school children making fun of him for putting his hand in his jacket like that all the time. B. A horde of a thousand hungry rabbits. Or C. A bunch of taller officers who liked to rest their drinks on his head.

A. You're going to go for A. All me try your style of coaching here. A, you think the answer is A? Peter is trying really hard to get you to think it's not A. B. B, it's B. That was on the rabbits. So for relaxation one day, the emperor went out and was supposed to be at one of these arranged hunts for aristocrats where they would release the rabbits, but the rabbits who were domestic thought they were going to get fed, so they rushed the party of hunters.

And Napoleon and his retinue all ran away. Bill, how did Coach Gower do in our quiz? It's what the Chargers score should have been. Three right for a win! Bill Cower is the Super Bowl winning former coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Bill Cower, thank you so much for joining us. I'm way, way, don't tell me. Give it up for the coach. MUSIC Finally, one of my personal highlights of the year was talking to Renee Elise Goldsberry,

who I had seen on Broadway in the original cast of Hamilton. She told us that after decades of being a working actor, becoming a huge star on Broadway was a little disorienting. It was head spinning. And it's also crazy because people would say things to me like, thank God. Like we, like I thought my career was great before Hamilton, but it just encouraged people, you know, kind of like if you thought you looked good and then you lose weight,

and people all of a sudden tell you now you look good. I felt like a medium time actor, a really solid medium time actor. And if anyone has watched Girls 5Eva, you know what I mean. Yes. We can get into that because there's a moment in the finale of season one of Girls 5 Ever where somebody says to your character as they offer you some presumably great job, for the rest of your life, people in sweatshirts will come up to you in restaurants and ask for a selfie.

And I'm like, that's probably true. Is that, is that like, is that your life? Can you go out? It's not my life all the time. I always say never, never underestimate how invisible a middle-aged black woman can be. Do you hear me? Do you hear me? I can hear you. I hear you and I see you. That's why I needed you to come on. You can see me. Thank you. How do you think I feel right now? Alright, Girls 5 Eva is about a girl group from like the early 2000s that broke up and they're trying to get back together in the present day and we found out you were actually in a girl group, weren't you?

I was. I was. It's so funny, they make fun of me because I didn't remember that I was in a girl group until we were on Fallon and we had finished shooting the entire first season. That's how long I've been throwing random things against the wall to see if they stick. I could not remember that I was actually in a girl group. And also, it was easy to forget

because we didn't have one hit. We had no hits. Right. But we were, so when people say a one hit Wonder Girl group is somehow or another a failure, I'm like, really? Did you just say I'm not in?

What was the name of the group? I don't remember the name of the group, I just remember the song that we had. It was, yes you can, yes you can, find you a good man, but when you do you gotta treat them right make sure your love is out of sight now and I just had no idea how how stereotypical it was to have a one hit that didn't even make it that was only about how you could treat a man right. That's what we do on Girls 5 Eva. We really like with comedy just spoof this idea that we are defined by how we make a man feel and we take it to a wonderful degree.

We have songs called Dream Lover, Dream Girlfriend, because our dads are dead and you never have to meet them. I mean, ask them if they left school. Like, we just parody lyrics of that time, and it feels so good. Yeah. APPLAUSE Well, Renee, this is Goldsberry. We are so delighted to talk to you,

and we have asked you here to play a game we're calling Hey Goldsberry, let's look for some buried gold So your name obviously put us in mind of buried gold hidden treasure We're gonna ask you three questions about the people who search for it If you get two right you'll win a prize for one of our listeners a pirate chest containing a voicemail. Bill, who is Renee Elise Goldberg playing for? Brian Holland of Southampton, Pennsylvania.

All right, here we go. In 1979, a man named Kit Williams published Masquerade, a picture book that was also a complicated puzzle concealing the location of a real golden treasure buried somewhere in Britain. Now the treasure wasn't discovered until 1982. How did the winner find it? A, he just walked up to a random bench in a public park and checked to see if there was anything under it.

B, he programmed an Apple II computer to solve it and then just waited three years for it to finish. Or C, he started dating Kit Williams' ex-girlfriend who just told him where it was. State. Yes, that's right. So if you do want to hide a treasure in a nationwide contest, don't tell your girlfriend where it is. All right, here's your next question. Tommy G. Thompson was a treasure hunter who found the most valuable shipwreck in America,

a ship that had been carrying gold from the California Gold Rush. He then ran away with the treasure and authorities say they found evidence he had been planning to disappear for a while. What did they find? A. A deluxe child's disguise kit with the fake mustache and and authorities say they found evidence he had been planning to disappear for a while. What did they find? A. A deluxe child's disguise kit with the fake mustache and eye patch missing. B. A book titled How to Be Invisible. Or C. A series of fake IDs, each with the name of a Harry Potter character.

A. A. You're going to go for the child's disguise kit with the fake mustache and eye patch. It was actually B, a book called How to be Invisible. It seems that way now. It was a good book because they couldn't find him for two years and this is what's interesting. They found him back in like 2010 and they still haven't found where he put the gold. So, if you're out there, look around. Alright, here's your last question. If you get this, you win.

In 2018, two British friends using metal detectors found $250,000 worth of ancient Roman coins, but they were very disappointed when what happened after that? A, they shipped the coins home on a boat, which sank. B, the mayor of Rome sued to get them back because they were Roman and he won. Or C, they found out the coins were actually just props from a show about friends who use metal detectors to find gold coins. See, that's right. Yeah, the TV show is called The Detectorists and it is apparently quite funny.

Bill, how did Renee do in our quiz? Two out of three. Renee, you're the winner. Renee Elise Goldsberry stars on Girls 5 Ever on Netflix. It's hilarious. Season 3 is out now. Renee Elise Goldsberry, what a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm glad you guys don't tell me. Thanks for helping me claim my name.

I love it. That's it for helping me claim my name. I love it. That's it for our Beat This 2025 edition. We'll see if the new year can live up to the standards set by the old one. But before that, let me tell you that, Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me is a production of NPR and WBEZ Chicago in association with

Urgent Haircut Productions, Doug Berman, Benevolent Overlord. Philip Godeker writes our limericks. Our public address announcer is Paul Friedman, our tour manager is Shana Donald. BJ Liederman composed our theme, our program is produced by Jennifer Mills, Miles Drombas, and Lillian King. Special thanks to Monica Hickey, Peter Gwynn

is our big glittery ball descending on Times Square. Our vibe curator is Emma Choi, technical direction is from Lorna White. Our CFO is Colin Miller, our production manager is Robert Newhouse, our senior producer is Ian Chilagin, the executive producer, Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me is Mr. Michael Danforth. Thanks to everybody you heard this week, all of our panelists, our special guests, and of course, Mr. Bill Curtis. Thanks to all of you for listening. I'm Peter Sagal.

We'll be back next week. This is NPR.