Was I In A Cult? - A Cult Divided: “Running to Freedom"

Episode Date: July 1, 2024

Today's episode dives into the extraordinary story of Ashleigh Teeter, who grew up in the World Wide Church of God... a cult in its own right. But when the church splits due to a new leader’s ideas, Ashleigh’s world gets turned upside down. She witnesses her own father become a cult leader, and then get ostracized from her nuclear family for almost 25 years. Why? Listen to find out. ——  Ashleigh hosts her own podcast about her upbringing. It’s called “The Cult Next Door” and is available wherever you get your podcasts. ——  Thanks to everyone who supports our show. It really helps!  If you don’t yet, but would like to, head to our Patreon  Follow us: instagram/TikTok @wasiinacult Listen to Ashleigh’s podcast: The Cult Next Door @cultnextdoorpodcast (insta/tiktok) Follow Ashleigh: @ashleighrb5 Have your own story and want to be on our show?  Email us: [e-mail] ——  Try VIIA Hemp! https://bit.ly/viiainacult and use code INACULT! (15% off)

The views, information, or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network, or any of their respective affiliates. He just said, I saw a vision of you in a spider web in a room with no door. I just started sobbing. I just immediately was like, what can I do? What do I do? And he's very gravely said, I don't know. And I was like, okay, the only thing I can do is to kill myself, that's it. And I wasn't even afraid of that. Welcome back to Was I In a Cult. I'm Tyler Miesim. He is, and I'm Liz Ayakousi. And on this show we give those who are in cults or cultic environments a chance to tell their story and by God take their power back.

And today's guest, she is awesome. I found her because she actually has a podcast about her cult story and her co-host was in the same cult with her and they were estranged for almost 25 years because of it. But we don't want to say who it is or give away too much ahead of time. Let's just say life is certainly trickier when your father becomes the cult leader. Ashley was a joy to have on this show and we are very excited to share her story. Purify me. Don't spare my life. I'm Ashley Teeter. I'm the oldest of five. And we grew up in Russellville, Arkansas.

My parents are like 17 and 18 when they got married and they had me at 19 and 20. When I was around three or four years old, my dad was listening to Herbert W. Armstrong. This guy seems to have all the answers. He's God's mouthpiece. God is speaking through him. Ladies and gentlemen, Herbert W. Obstock. Where is the original true church today? Now Jesus Christ had said when it was on earth I will build my church and he did build it. But he didn't say churches. He didn't say many different... Known to his friends as Mr. Herb with the good word, with the good lord's word, Mr. Herb. No? No, I mean maybe he was, but I don't, I couldn't find that.

I'm pretty sure his friends called him that. Yeah, sure. Let's call him Herbie the hamster. The hamster. Yeah. the name will shift later in story. Yeah. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. th. the th. the th. th. to to to to he. to hea. he. to to to to to to to to to hea. He's hea. He's hea. He's hea. He's hea. He's hea. He's hea. He he. He he. He he. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He's. He. He's. He's. He's. He's the the the the th. He's the th. He's th. He's th. He's th. He's th. He's the the the th. He's th. He's th. He's th. He's the hamster. Yeah. You guys, his name will shift later in story. Yeah, sure. So the Herbmeister show, the Radio Church of God, it became quite popular in the early days of radio. And in the 30s, Herbert, he branched out. And he started a church called the Worldwide Church of God. At its height, I think there were like 120,000 people worldwide.

You can't just find the worldwide church of God. Not anybody can just walk in the building. And so if the truth spoke to you when you were listening to this, then you would call and a minister would come out to your home and you would have to go through a weeks long, sometimes months-long process of counseling with them before you would have to go through a weeks long, sometimes months long process of counseling with them before you would be invited to come to services, at which point they would tell you, here's where it is, and here's what time. That is one long-ass con right there.

But I'm sure that radio preachers were all the rage back then. That and smoking. It was 1976 after all. Yeah, I do remember smoking back then. I remember going to to to to to to to to to to to to the thing thing thing th. th. th. th. th the the the the the the the the the the the the the the would the thi would thi would be the would be the would be the would the would the would the. the. the. the. the would be the would be the would be the would be th be th be th be th be th be th be th be th be the before the before the before the before the before the before the before the before the before the before the before the before the before the before the the the, the, theiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii would the the theii would theei would be invited the. Before you would be the rage back then. That and smoking, it was 1976 after all. Yeah, I do remember smoking back then. I remember going into a restaurant and people smoked. Do you ever fly on a plane when people smoked? Here's the thing. I wasn't born then. Sorry.

I don't remember anything from that year. You missed out. Lots of smoke. 1976. That's also the year that's Jobs introduced the Apple computer. Not to be overshadowed by the launch of, Duh, Nan Nanna, T.J. Max. Do you know what else? Ticketmaster. And can you guess it?

No. 1,800 flowers. A fine year. It was also the bicentennial of America. It was also the year. You always have to want me with your facts. I come in with a couple facts on one episode. That was a year that the High Five was invented. One of the greatest stories you'll ever hear is the High Five was invented in 1976. You'll have to join our Patriots to hear it. But it is a great story and it's one for gay pride, believe it or not.

So back to being counseled by a random minister from a radio church show. So my dad, he actually called the ministry and went through that process and got invited. He had been this hippie, he was a professional musician. He liked the whole rock and roll scene. All of a sudden he's like, clean cut, and my mom was like, okay, he was this. And so she thought, okay, well, maybe this is something good. So she started going. You know, what's well, maybe this is something good. So she started going. You know, what's up with all these rock stars turned cult leaders, Tyler? Like, I don't, I don't understand. It is, it is odd. I mean, there's a lot of

David Koresh. Failed rock star. Wolf, Wolf from Zendik Farms. Mel Lyman. We did a great two episodes on Mel Lyman. And course their coal leader of cold leaders. Mr. Chuck. Charles Manson. Checky Check. He was a failed rock star. He actually wrote a song for the Beach Boys that they recorded. Something like that. I read a book about it but I forget things when I sleep. It's weird. Now as Ashley mentioned she is the oldest of five and she loved all of her siblings quite dearly. But soon they were all consumed by this worldwide church of God, which I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time keeping all of these Christian religious cult straight, Tyler. So what did this one believe to be the one known singular truth? They were an apostolic church. They were carrying on what Jesus started. Such a heavy emphasis on the Old Testament. What we lived under was the constant fear

of the Great Tribulation, the end of the world. That was imminent. I was told that I would never grow up and meet someone, have a family, have a spouse, like none of that was going to be able to happen because Christ was coming back any day basically. In the church, they would talk about how the soldiers were going to come in, they're going to take slaves, and people are going to be lined up with fish hooks in their mouths, and they're going to be dragged through the streets and women are going to be raped. Fish hooks? I love how she mentioned slaves and rape and you focus on fish hooks. It's just it's strange I don't understand it's visceral I mean to be physically dragged around like some marlin. It's a literal bait and switch. Oh. Oh, yeah.

I had always heard people call us a cult, but that's fine. We are a cult because a cult is just something that's not mainstream and we don't want to be mainstream. What I remember the most is just everything was so controlled. The cult basically trained the fathers to be their own family cult leaders. And so we were essentially a cult within a cult. We were a family cult. My dad had extremely tight control over what we did, our attitudes, everything. He started his own business, which meant that he was at home with us because he wanted to always make sure that he was the primary influence over our lives. You know, my mom was very

passive and was the supportive, submissive wife. When I think about my childhood as a whole, in general, it was always trying to make sure that I was pleasing him and therefore pleasing God. And so I have a memory of him telling me to pick up my toys off the floor, and I said no, as a three or four-year-old might. And then he spanked me. Sometimes I still want to say oh it was a spanking but really we're getting beaten. But before a beating

he would say do you know why I'm doing this? This is what God has instructed for parents to do so God wants you to beat me with a belt. Okay, guys, so Ashley shared a link with me straight from good old Herbie A's website, and it states exactly why you must beat your kid. So basically in summary, he says it's to prevent your kid from becoming a delinquent. But then it goes on to give you chapters, and within these chapters, it's just like a bunch of Bible verses quoted quoted for days. Oh, sounds like something I'm to to to to to to to the the to their their their their their their their their their their their to their theirthese chapters it's just like a bunch of Bible verses quoted for days. Oh sounds like something I'm gonna do coming up isn't it? So here's some chapter headings. Criminals are made

not born. You can punish your child in love. I love how you said that. It comes out so nice it sounds right. Here's another one. Should children be seen and not heard? And then my favorite of the chapters, how to get results. Literally, that's what the chow. How to get results? Which is what you guys, if you want the cliff notes version of this, that's what it covers in the summary. And this is the explanation.

It says, verbatim. You've heard of the old razor strap strap, the belt, the boogie whip, the ruler and pencil of the school teachers of a few decades ago. But should these implements be used? First, never try to spank a small child with a whole hand through the diapers. Before you would ever accomplish the job of administering a proper spanking to drive the lesson home, you might run the risk of injuring the child's back. That is so insane. Like they have come out with... if they've figured out that if you spank a child through a diaper you'll hurt his back. What in, okay, it goes on. The whole hand against one or two thicknesses of diapers would not really be felt

except as a clubbing type of blow to the child. As mentioned previously, you should raise the the the the the thicknesses of diapers would not really be felt except as a clubbing type of blow to the child. As mentioned previously you should raise the corners of the diaper and simply swat the child with only two or three fingers. Make sure it is felt but first try it on yourself. That makes sense. Spank yourself dad before you beat your your end up. Yeah it's like when you give your child a bottle you put a little bit on your wrist. Oh, just spank yourself to make sure you're doing it correctly. Like the detail of this is insane.

Yeah, instruction manual for beating your child. Raise the corner of the diaper. This is awful. This is, I mean, we're laughing. to me. thii. it's horrible and in many ways it's fun, but horrific. It's horrifying. It got away with us. Probably still do. Yeah. I mean, the website's active.

We can even, we'll link to it for those of you who need some soothing bedtime reading. Yeah, or to laugh at it, but please do not take the instructions to heart. Obviously. So there was a standard that children were supposed to reach and dad wanted us to be exemplary. And so if we were going to be there at church services, he was going to make sure that we did exactly what he said in the second that he told us to say it. Because that church, that translated to sitting during multiple hours of church services. And so it was very common. Any children who made noise were taken out, they were beaten.

I mean, they say that newborns come into the world defiant with a bad attitude. I mean, it's ridiculous. And then, of course, ladies and gentlemen, the whole women are skinks thing. I was wondering when we'd get to that. Yeah. I love it when they talk about us being just hoachy mamas. The church didn't allow women to wear makeup and just vilified women who put any attention into their appearance. You're trying to be a seductress and lure men and you know only prostitutes are

doing this and so my mom had to throw out all her makeup. Well when I was four my grandmother she had these drawers full of makeup and there was this blue eye shadow and I thought it was so pretty and I put it on and I put it on a try to the the the the their the their..... their. their. their. their. their. their. their their their their their their their their their their appearance. their appearance. I. I. I. I. I. I. I their. I their. And there was this blue eyeshadow. And I thought it was so pretty. And I put it on and it was time to leave. And I left her house and I ran out in the yard towards my dad. And when he saw me, he grabbed my arm and drug me back into the house, grabbed the makeup drawer out, got some, they called it Rouge, dug into that, smeared it on my face, both cheeks and said if I wanted to look like a whore, I should be proud of it. So our Sabbath

was Friday night sunset to Saturday night sunset and during that time we could not do anything that was not God related. We had strict dietary laws which are in Leviticus where we avoided foods that were considered unclean like pork and certain fish and then of course we couldn we couldn't keep any of the traditional holidays like Christmas and Easter. Those were pagan holidays. Also, we are not supposed to celebrate our birthdays because bad things, biblically speaking, happen on birthdays. Another tenet was tithing.

You are tithing 10% before you're taxed and that goes to the church. Then the second tithe was supposed to be for you to spend in your eight days at the Feast of Tabernacles. Okay, so this is a unique part of this particular religion. The Feast of Tabernacles, right? So basically, throughout the year every member saves 10% of their income and then for one week they all meet in a designated city and they just live it up. They spend it all. They go to nice restaurants, they buy fancy clothes, they drink good wine, and then they have a little preaching, and then they have some meetings and some preaching. And all of this is to signify what it will be like when they get to heaven.

That's what heaven is apparently. It's like a carrot they're dangling. All you can eat crab legs and wine that doesn't come from a box. And then third tithe another 10% every three years. And that money goes to people in need at the church. There were years where it was 30% of your income. So yes we were poor for sure. I did want to mention the whole thing about demons. That was a huge piece of the Worldwide Church of God. Every single mental health illness that anyone had was demonic activity, always.

If you had even basic depression, that's probably like a demon is bothering you. We were told, like, you could be taken over by a demon. If you think about a demon too much, I would go to bed at night and a cold sweat, like clenching my fists around sheets and like praying. Please protect me from demons and keep them far from me. Statistic time! Ding ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Okay, if you have an average sized cat, the weight of his fecal output. Oh, just say poo.

Okay, fine, his poo is about 0.3 pounds. So if you do the simple math, there are 96 million cats in the United States, you times that by 0.03,000,000. That is... 28,8,800,000. Nice. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. th. to, okay. to, to, to,000. to, to, to, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to. to. to. to. ti. ti. ti. ti. toda. ti. ti. ti. toda. toda. the. the. the. th. th. that by 0.03, 0.3 that is... 28,800,000. Nice. Okay, so 28.8 million pounds of waste every day. And in a year that is, let's see, 10.512 billion. Oh, well thank you, Rain Man. That's 10.5 billion pounds of waste per year.

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Well I do. I do. Because it saves me time. It looks cool. It makes life easier and frankly it makes life a little less stinky. You have to change it like what once a month? I give a take yeah every few weeks it's easy to change just pull the bag out throw it away ding dang dong cat poop in the garbage. Make sure you say ding ding dang don't when you do guys otherwise it doesn't go anywhere.

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Stop Scooping.com slash Colt. Promo Code, Cult. And Fluffy, Jinxy Milo, we will be expecting your thank you notes. Hey guys, if you haven't looked outside or opened a window or looked at a calendar, you don't know where you are, what you're doing, it's summer. And that means it's hot, which sometimes means it's hard to sleep. Summer heat or not, what do they say, Tyler, sleep like age often feels wasted on the youth. I don't think you got that right. But look, thanks to our amazing partner, Via Hemp, the quote. I don't think you got that right but look I'm I'm sure I got it right. Look thanks to our amazing partner via hemp the quote great sleep summer awaits.

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He's hashtag blessed y'all. Oy. And by a hemp, well, it ships legally to all 50 states in discrete packaging, and their. And their. And their. And their. And their. And their. And their. And their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their is their is their is their is their is their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their. their. their. their. their, their, th. th. th. th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, their. And, the. And, their. the. thea. And. And. And. And. And. And. And, their their toge. And. And. And. And. And. And. And, their, to all 50 states in discrete packaging and there is no medical card needed. That's right, so if you're 21 and over head to Via Hemp.com, use the code in a cult to receive 15% off plus one free sample of their award-winning gummies. That's VIIA hemp.com and use code in a cult at checkout. Support our show guys, tell them we sent you, and get the rest you deserve with dreams from Via. Happy Hamping! Herbert Armstrong had died in the 80s, and then someone else took over, and his name was Joseph W. Tococch. For some reason, these cults all like to have the lead to the s and then someone else took over and his name was Joseph W. Takoch. For some reason,

these cults all like to have the leader's middle name in there. I don't know why. And he eventually decided let's move the World Wide Church of God into a more mainstream area. And so they started slowly introducing these doctrinal changes and people who had been around forever like my dad just completely lost their shit over that because it was apostasy and I remember him saying over and over God is going to raise someone else up to carry on this work that Herbert Armstrong started and sure enough, to thr-earned on this work that Herbert Armstrong started. And sure enough, Roderick C. Meredith, he was going to carry on the work.

You see what I mean by all the middle initials? I don't know why. There was a faction of people who didn't like him, so it ended up being two big splits splits but basically you had these two groups and we went with Roderick Meredith and so they said we need people in different areas who are willing to allow services to be in their homes and so my dad he volunteered and it's like services can be at my house. And in real time, I remember watching how much he relished that. I knew this was not good for him. Eventually, the Living Church of God was growing, and so they sent an elder to us, and that just did not fly with Dad.

He doesn't want to relinquish control. So he did what any unqualified and narcissistic person would do who didn't want to let go of control. So dad decided he was going to start his own group and he said he had to. It's just like ridiculous so he started his own group. I had already applied and been accepted to Living Church of God's summer camp as a camp counselor. Dad said that I could go and that is where I met my husband. I met Kurt and Kurt started coming to visit. Dad allowed it, but he did not like it.

And then two months later, he came for the weekend. I asked my dad, even though I'm 21 years old at this point, what's my curfew? I remember thinking, when am I going to be an adult in his eyes? And he said, in front of Kurt, she doesn't have a curfew, which is just bullshit. So we went out and we ended up coming home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home home. He said in front of Kurt, she doesn't have a curfew, which is just bullshit. So we went out and we ended up coming home at one. I walk in the house, I try to go upstairs

and he snaps his finger and he says, have a seat. And from there, this conversation went on until 5 o'clock in the morning. And it wasn't a conversation. It was him yelling at me, telling me that I had disrespected him as my father and wasn't like honoring and obeying my parents. And he also said I had no business dating Kurt because I had recently been baptized and Kurt was 27 and he was not baptized. And so my dad was like, you're unequally yoke, and he quoted the scripture that said,

what fellowship has Christ with bail? Scripter time, everyone. I will try and make this an exact 30 seconds, so that listeners can just hit the skip button once to get past this boring Bible stuff. Liz, however, unfortunately she will have to sit and listen to it. Actually, Pastor Tyler K. Meesom, I'm going to go take a quick break, boost my cleavage, apply some makeup and feel what it's like to sin. Harlot!

Please drone on. Okay, this particular scripture comes from Second Corinthians 615 which says, And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? So in this verse the Apostle Paul is urging Christians to avoid being unequally yoked with those who don't share their particular faith. And the name Belial is often used to personify wickedness and can be understood as a reference to Satan or evil in general. The verse emphasizes urging believers to maintain their distinctiveness in faith and conduct. Hey, I'm back from luring in all the men

with my... With your makeup. With my rouge. How'd it go? It wasn't bad. We lost 12.5 listeners. Oh, okay. Yeah, we're on the up. Done much worse. So Ashley's dumb fucking potato father. I never talked back to him but respectfully I said I don't think that we view that scripture in the same way and he just absolutely spiraled. Like he he jumped up with his hand held back. He he tel back. he the up. the up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the up. the up. We the up. We the up. We the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're on the up. We're on the up. We're on the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're the up. We're their their their their their their their their up. We're their their their their their up. We're on. We're on. We're on. We're on. We're on. We're on. We're on. We're on. We're on. We're on. We're on. We're on. We're on. We're the the the that scripture in the same way. And he just absolutely spiraled. Like he jumped up with his hand held back. He almost hit me and he stopped himself. I remember going to the bathroom and just like falling to the floor

and sobbing because my body was just shot. And my mom came in and like gave me a Valium and tea bags so that my eyes wouldn't be so swollen. So then the next day, I had I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I had I had I had I had I had I had I had I had I had I had I had I had a th. I had I had tha tha that I had a that I had a that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to totea bags so that my eyes wouldn't be so swollen. So then the next day I had a date with Kurt. So we came back earlier and same exact thing happened. My dad was waiting for me and it was the whole thing again until like 4.30 in the morning. But he got so angry he said, well, it's just time for you to leave. It's just time for you to get out, move out. And so I got up and I told my mom I'm leaving, I have to have to go. And of course she was

very distraught and didn't want me to leave, but I left. I lived with my best friend. I tried to come back three weeks later to have to have to have to have to have th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thin, thin, thin, thin, the, the, the, the, the the thrown, the, like, the, like, th, th, the the the the the the the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the their, their, the their, the their, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thr. And, toge, toge, toge, toge, toge, toge, toge, toge, the, thr. And, the, th come back three weeks later to have dinner with the family and he was absolutely awful. Wouldn't look at me, totally ignored me, I tried to give him a hug, he pretended I wasn't there and it was really upsetting for my mom and my siblings. And I was still trying to see my siblings, especially my little brothers who were only like six and ten. I was really close to them. Fast forward a couple months I get engaged because these things go fast in the church and I'm planning the wedding and I get a call from my dad. Ashley you have to come home now. This is really important. I have something I have to talk to you about and then my mom gets on the phone and my mom is bawling. Please

come home, please come home and I was like okay like I will. I told Kurt and he said I'm gonna drive you and so I get there Kurt stays on the front porch and I go in the house and and Dad looks at me and said, you shouldn't have brought him here. The mood is just bizarre. My mom is disheveled and distraught. Dad is very serious. The lights are dim.

Dad takes me back to his bedroom, and it's dark in there. And he has a chair, and I sit on the edge of the bed, and he just said, Ashley, and, and, and, and, and, and, the, and, th, th, th, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and that, the the that, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and, and, and, and, and, and, th, th, the the th, th, the the the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, he has a chair and I sit on the edge of the bed and he just said, Ashley, I've been given the gift of prophecy. And God has given me a message to give to you. In darkness, unable to move, you will find great surprise and fear. That was God's message to me. And he said, the foundation you have built upon the sand will fall and crumble around you. I saw a vision of you in a spider web,

in a room with no door. I just started sobbing. I still thought my father was like some degree of infallible. As crazy as that sounds, he is still elevated closer to God than I am and so he's gonna have the answers he's gonna know. I just immediately was like, what can I do? What do I do? How can I change God's mind? And he's very gravely said, I don't know. I was like, okay, the only thing I can do is to kill myself, that's it. And I wasn't even afraid of that. It was basically like, if these awful things are going

to happen to me, we're talking about paralyzation and darkness and my worst fear, spiders and being trapped, wouldn't it be better to just die instead? And then I thought, I don't even know how to kill myself, like I've never thought about this before, and I thought, oh, I will explain this to Kurt. And he'll help me come up with a plan. Like I was so irrational in the moment. Dad was like, the only thing that you can do is come back home and call off the wedding. And so I said, okay, I'll come back. He opened the door and then my mom came in. My mom fell at my feet and grabbed

on to my ankles and was sobbing and I'd never seen her like that before. And I said, my car is still in Joplin. I got to go get my car. And I was like trying to lift her up and she was just begging me not to go. I left, mom was a wreck, and I couldn't even speak because all I was thinking about was how am I going to kill myself on the car ride. And I told him the next day. And I couldn't even look at him and I could only get it out like a couple words at a time because it just, like my whole body would have a physiological response to the words. And Kurt just said, actually, that's not from God. And that was the first time ever entered my

consciousness that possibly dad was wrong. Intellectually, I came to realize, okay, that was not a message from God for me. And so I realized then, like, I can't go back. I'm not going back there, at least not for the time being. I'm moving on with my life, because even hearing his voice was incredibly triggering. And, with someone who is a narcissist, they'll win every argument. It doesn't matter what you say.

They will completely twist you into a pretzel. And I was like, I'm just not walking back into that. My wedding was in three weeks. And my siblings were all supposed to be in the wedding. And then I heard through the grapevine that they were not gonna be allowed to be there. And then after I got married, he disavowed my wedding vows. He found this obscure scripture in numbers,

something about like a father can disavow his daughter's wedding vows. Okay, the book of numbers, specifically chapter 30, it deals with vows and oaths made to God. Here, let me help our listeners. Siri, skip ahead 30 seconds. It's very nice of you, hands-free as well. This scripture in which Ashley's father utilized comes from numbers, chapter 30 verse 8, which outlines conditions under which a woman's vow can either be upheld or nullified by her father or her husband. That is actual insanity. It is absurd, but I've got a better one for you. What is it? This is from the book of numbers. Also, there's a scripture about men wanting

to find out if their women were unfaithful and if they were, they could take him into a tavernacle and a priest would administer to them a bitter root drink of some sort and if her abdomen swelled she was unfaithful and she could be put to death. Oh that one's quite understandable. There are many people who actually believe that that was an abortion. But they aborted the kid by killing the wife. Well if the abdomen swelled but there's also one in there in numbers about how God made a donkey talk so that the master of the donkey wouldn't keep beating it. Well, you know, every donkey I've ever met talks like Eddie Murphy, so...

Also makes sense. Maybe folks we shouldn't take the Book of Numbers literally. I don't know, Tyler, I'm kind of sold on the book of the book of the book of the book of the book of the book of the book of the book of the book of the book of the book the book the book the book the book the book the Book of Numbers literally. I don't know Tyler, I'm kind of sold on the book of numbers now. It's number one in my book. Hey girlies, I'm Cody Rigsby, and I'm Andrew Chappell. We're here to announce our brand new podcast, tactful pettiness, now on podcast one. We have a lot of opinions. Flip-flops in New York City, you don't love yourself. If I'm not seated, I'm not tipping. Do I want to see a picture of your baby? No. If I have to scroll more than 10 seconds, he's not cute. Settling gets you an ugly boyfriend.

So we're going to help you out. We sure are because we have the life expertise. We have mastered the business of helping you find and keep your man. And we're here to teach you the fine art of tactful pettiness. Join us each week as we traverse the world of pop culture, chat with our celebrity friends, and show you how to accept yourself without taking life too seriously. Get new episodes of Tackle, Cody Rigsby, and me Andrew Chappell. Every Thursday on Apple Podcasts Spotify, Amazon Music, and anywhere you get your podcasts.

Stay Petty Bestie. After I got married and moved to Missouri, I really missed my siblings. I tried to stay in contact or at least, you know, reach out writing letters and of course my dad was sending letters back to me unopened and he sent me lots of letters and every time it was like my body went into shutdown. He just wrote me the worst things. It was easy for Ashley not to want to talk to her father but she desperately wanted to see and spend time with her two younger brothers, Michael and Matthew, who sometimes went by Maddie.

But she knew her father would never allow it. But because I was very close to Michael and Matthew being, you know, my little sidekicks for a while, I went to their schools and showed up to eat lunch with them. And of course I did this unannounced. I didn't tell anybody that I was doing it and so I did that a handful of times. Maddie was in first grade and he was so little that he didn't understand what was going on at all. It was just like, oh, my sister's here to eat lunch. Michael was particularly upset, just wanting me to come back home and I would cry for days after seeing them. The last time that I went, I actually went to Maddie's Elementary and I walked down the hallway and went to his classroom.

There's like a little rectangular window where you could like see in the classroom and I and I didn't understand what the the classroom and I didn't the the the the the to to to to to to the to to the to to the the to the to to the to the to to the the the to to to to the to the to come to come to come to come to come to come to come the the the to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thuuu.c. I was to come. I was to come to come back to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the tho.u. the the the. the down the hallway and went to his classroom. There's like a little rectangular window where you could like see in the classroom. And I went and I peered in and I saw the back of his head. Like I just saw him with his little friends. I stood there and I just realized I can't do this to him. Like I can't see him and like yank his little emotions around like that. I just looked at him for a minute and then I left and that was kind of a, that was kind of a moment where I realized this the last time that I'm gonna seeto see him for who knows how long. So she had left her family and left her father's cult, but she was still a believer

playing the good subservient housewife and attending the Worldwide Church of God with her husband. So my husband's father was our pastor. He was a very eccentric man and had a lot of anger issues, abused his kids growing up, physically abused them beyond like normal for the church corporal punishment. Kurt, he had a really tough upbringing, but he still really respected his dad and thought he's still God's servant even though he's got these issues. He wasn't like power tripping like a lot of the husbands were. A lot of the men just really relished in being able to tell their wives what to do and how to do it. It was even preached from the pulpit that husbands could spank their wives, like not in a sexual way, get them back in line.

So I was very fortunate. I married a kind, like, good person, but it was still the same structure, still the power and balance. I'm still asking my husband for permission to do things that I would never dream of asking someone to do at this point in my life. I wanted to run a marathon and prepared this entire argument for how I was going to be able to maintain the household and take care of the kids and he said he had to think about it and I don't even blame him. I know that

sounds bad but I'm like that was the culture we were in. And I told him, it's only going to be one, you know, and so I ran it. Well, ended up I was like, oh, I'm hooked because I think I got some of my power back. And that was kind of a catalyst for me to start coming into my own. After the second marathon, I just told him, this is a lifestyle for me. And I just had the courage suddenly, and I said, I want to keep doing this. And so he accepted that. I think through marathoning,

was starting to kind of discover myself and my own strength that I had kind of buried away. Run, Ashley, run! So Ashley had been running marathons, which is, you know, a full 26.2 miles. Oh boy. Do you know where marathon, the term marathon and the distance comes from, Liz? Yeah, it comes from the Latin word, merit. No, it does not. No, it does not. It does feel like something everyone should know. Hey, Siri, play the Smarles podcast for the next 30 seconds. Why are we trying to get people out of our show, Tyler. Just giving the people what they want. In 490 BC during the

Greco-Persian wars, the Greeks achieved a significant victory against the Persians at the Battle of Marathon. Marathone. According to legend, there was a Greek soldier named Fidipides. He was sent from the battlefield to Marathon, to Athens to announce the victory, and he ran the entire distance Liz without stopping, and upon reaching Athens, Fidipides ran into the king. he exclaimed, we have won.

And then he collapsed and died from exhaustion. Yeah. So to honor this legend, the first marathon was introduced during the 1896 Olympics. That's actually a good story, Tyler. Thanks, that's why it's the point two. No, the point two, and this I just actually know. Came from the first the marathon in London in 1906 I believe it was and it started at the

stadium but it finished where the Royals, the Royal box so they could see it. So everything is really catered around the Royals. Just to please the Queen. Yes. So Ashley was running and it was making her feel alive again. But there was one thing that she was still without. I was missing my siblings so bad, like my whole family, but it was just crushing to know that my little brothers were growing up and I wasn't there. My youngest brother, Maddie, was just six, almost seven, and I

just remember there being a point a year or two into this where I was like, I don't know if he's going to remember me. My husband at the time was really encouraging me to keep writing and never let them forget that I was thinking about them. But I just, I literally couldn't do it anymore it th it th it th it the the their it their it their it their it their it their it their it their it their it their their their, my their, my their, my their, my their, my their, my the time was really encouraging me to keep writing and never let them forget that I was thinking about them. I just, I literally couldn't do it anymore. My mental health was just nose diving and so I just decided this is behind me, this is in my past. I have literally no hope anymore and I really went on with my life.

And that was a good move for me at the time because it really released me of that longing. I just decided to pour my energy into my own life. And we had three children, and I, in essence, recreated a family. All the things in my childhood just suddenly started to become appalling to me. You know, just all of the different psychological abuses. And we're like going to church every Sabbath. All we're hearing every week is the Great Tribulation is almost here.

It's coming. But it started to really get to me. I just cannot go every week and hear this. I've got a family and I've got children and instead all it is is doom and gloom. And it was like anxiety producing. And I mentioned it to my husband. He's definitely not interested in hearing anything that was negative about it. And I think this all is just building in me.

And I, just one day, I guess the kids are probably down for a nap or something, I just started Googling like Herbert Armstrong. I started reading and he had lived a life of luxury, he had private jets. Meanwhile, the congregation, these were like very poor people overall. Giving money they didn't have, you know, they're foregoing electricity or water so they can send this person money so that he can live lavishly. And so I was reading and I stumbled across a newspaper clipping and it was the Tulsa World News. Herbert Armstrong had gotten a divorce.

Of course, no one wanted to talk about that either, because you're not supposed to get a divorce. In this, it said that, I'm going to read this word for word because I have it pulled up here. It said, Lawrence Dector, Mrs. Armstrong's lawyer said, thia, thiiiii, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, to the, to toe, and the, the, to to to to to to to to to to to to to toe, and toe, and toe, and toe, and toe, and toe, and the, and toe, and toe, and toe, and toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, the, theananan, theanananan, theusususususususususususususususususususyyyyyy, theaauuooosea, toea, toe, toe going to read this word for word because I have it pulled up here. It said Lawrence Dector Mrs. Armstrong's lawyer said the testimony would explain a quote understanding unquote the couple reached about Armstrong's quote prior incestuous conduct with his daughter for many years unquote. and I'm like this is directly from his divorce hearing. Yeah, and he's not like,

he's not denying this. I'm like, oh my God. So my entire life, we've been revering this man who's molesting his own daughter. This is the person that God chose on all of the earth to like bring his quote-unquote truth and I was like that that was it for me. They always let you down don't they? I told you his name was going to change. New name? Herbie, harasser. So she takes this new found and horrific information to her husband, who considers it briefly, and

then replies, You know, who knows if this is true, but if it is true, he could have repented. And even King David, he slept with Bashiba, and God still made him King of Israel. Oh boy, more Bible stories. I don't write him, Liz, I just report on him. So this is from Second Samuel 11 and 12, and it is quite the reality show saga of King David. Okay?

One day he's walking on his roof, and he happens to spot through a window a beautiful woman bathing. Ah, yes, just a creepy king taking a walk on his roof, looking through the windows of his neighbors his his his neighbors the the neighbors the neighbors the neighbors the neighbors the neighbors the neighbors the neighbors the neighbors the neighbors the neighbors the neighbors the neighbors their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their thiiiiii, thi, thioli, thi, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I king taking a walk on his roof looking through the windows of his neighbors while they bathed. So what does he do? He sends a messenger to get her and bring her to him. It's like the Bible equivalent of sliding into her DMs. Right now it gets a little crazy so King David sleeps with her, gets her pregnant. So to cover it up he he to the husband who is at war to come home and sleep to come to come to come to come to come to come home. to come. to to to to to to to the, the, the, the, the, the the, the the, the the, the the, the the, the the, the the, the the, the the, the the, the the, the the, the the, th. th. the the, th. the the, the the, to the the, the the, the the, the the, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. the, the, the, the, thean, thr. thrownean, thr-n.ean, thrownean, thr-n.ean, thean, thr-n. thr-n. thean, thean, to come home and sleep with her, so that he can show the baby is hers. But he won't leave the battlefield, so David tries to get him drunk. He still won't come home, so he sends him to the front lines where he is killed.

Then he marries the mournful Bathsheba, and their child dies. But because David repents, their next child, Solomon, he becomes king. So God has forgiven, David, and blessed him. I mean that's better than most love at first sight seasons. That is a full season of reality show I just gave you. I love how he tries to get him drunk. Like, what did he go to the battle? He's like, all right dude, just here. Get wasted. He was sleeping near the king's headquarters and he ordered some soldiers to get him drunk. But he that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that that that that that that that that that that that's that's that's th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi that's that's that's that's that is that is thi th. that's that's th. I's that's th. I's that's th, th is th is th, th, th, th is th, th, th, th is th, th is the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their thate thate their thateeateateate their their thateateateateateate. their thate, their's headquarters and he ordered some soldiers to get him drunk, but he still wouldn't leave his soldiers. I don't know, again, because I don't write it. I just report on it. That's how Solomon, wow. Yeah. But Shiba, however, was probably sent to hell.

Yeah, well. Is that her name? Bathsheba? Because she was bathing? Oh, I didn't think of that, perhaps. So I realized, okay, I'm alone in this, and my husband is never ever leaving this. And during this time, I'd also become increasingly unhappy with the marital structure, the dynamics. And for a long time, I thought, I'm gonna die with this though., the dynamics. And for a long time I thought I'm gonna die with this though. No one's ever gonna know how I feel. I had decided I'm going to just try to stick this out. I'm gonna try to find a way to live a fuller life, but I don't want to get a divorce, you know? And I did have some counseling with the ministry, who I will say are not mental health

counselors and have no business counseling people. It makes me crazy, and we didn't get anywhere. They just told me I didn't have grounds for divorce, so it wasn't an option. And they were like, you cannot attend any living church have got in the world, unless you agree to abide by the decisions the church makes for you. That's verbatim.

They're like, you have to stay married. And it was like, there's more than this. Like, it always just like, like, it, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, it, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, th it was like, there's more than this. Like, it always just like I couldn't do it anymore. And I just said, okay, thank you. And I never went back. I know it sounds crazy, but like running connected me with myself and I met myself for the first time and I didn't want to let her go. I'm really glad that happened. It forced me kind of to be like okay like I'm out and we got the divorce I went into nursing school and so I became

a nurse and during that time I met my current husband. And we have six kids between us, three boys, three girls. And the further she got away from the religion, the more she realized that it might not have been a religion after all. I read Stephen Hasson's book, Combating Cult Mind Control. Because I knew Worldwide was a cult. Then Dad's church is definitely a cult. It's like no doubt. Here's the criteria and they meet it all. So she goes on living her life. Nice husband, many kids, good job.

Happy cult-free existence. However, she is still banished from her family and hadn't seen them in years. And then one day in the fine year of 2020, the year of binging home renovation shows, yelling at Twitter and sanitizing your bananas. I got a friend request from Maddie's wife, Liz. And I was just like, what the hell is this? What's going on the next day? I got a friend request from Matt. And then I got one from a couple other members of the next day. I got a friend request from Matt and then I got one from a couple other members of the family and I was like something is happening. And then I get a message from Maddie's wife like,

she told me that they had left and not only that but they had all left except for my mom. All of the siblings. A few had all left, except for my mom. All of the siblings, a few weeks later, I drove to my sister's house, and my sisters, they were like 16 and 18. So at least I felt like I knew who they were to a degree. But like Matt walked in and he's just like six foot five, thirty, thirty one years old. I felt like I was gonna cry. Like that's that little boy that I adored. And I've thought about all these years and like here he is and he's a man.

The emotions were so big to just look at them and know like so much life has happened. It was like a feeling of I wish I had been there for them. I wish, you know, I wish I like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I th, I that, I that, I that, I that, I that, I that, I that, I thi, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like. It was like a feeling of I wish I had been there for them, I wish, you know, like I wish I could have been a resource, a big sister, support, all of that. So obviously, you know, I'm trying to do that now. They're grown men. I don't know how much they need that from me, but I'm trying to give it to them anyway. We had ended up having Thanksgiving that year at our house. All of my siblings came. I just remember someone saying, oh, mom's here, which was another totally surreal thing. Because the last I knew, mom agreed with dad.

The door was open and it was like a pit in my stomach because I just didn't know like how I was gonna react and I remember like she had lost a lot of weight, she was really thin. She was going through absolute hell at that point with my dad. She looked like a shell of a person and I don't think I'll ever forget that image just seeing her like that, like that, that, like don't think I'll ever forget that image. Just seeing her like that brought back the memory of seeing her falling to her knees and grabbing on to me and asking me not to leave and just that state that she was in at that time.

And I hadn't really been angry at my dad in years. Let it go and that like lit some anger inside me because just seeing what his abuse had done to her. there were a lot of rumors going around because my dad was spending an inordinate amount of time with this woman, single mom, who was probably 40s, and taking her on long drives in the mountains. She was spending time in his office behind locked doors. Like my dad moved a chase lounge into his office at the church building. I got a message from a friend that

said I heard your dad was having an affair and I'm so sorry for your mom. I was pissed and so I sent a screenshot of it to him and he wrote back and he wrote me this long thing about how like this woman was actually his spiritual daughter it was a spiritual lineage and that was okay for him to be like, to be like, to be like, thinnege, and I'm like, soe, th like, th like, th like, th like, th like, th like, th like, th like, th like, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to be so so so so so sorry, so sorry, so sorry, and I'm so tho, and I'm so tho, and I'm so tho, and I'm so th, and I tho, and I th, and I thin, and I thin, and I thu, and I tho, and I th so so so so so so so so so th so th so th so th so th th th the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the they, so the to be soo, soo, to to to to be soo, to to to be soo, I'm soo, I'm soo, to their their their the, it was a spiritual lineage, and it was okay for him to be like spending this time with her, and then he told me that God was just doing these amazing things in the church before everyone left him, and that I would just have had to be there to understand it, but that if I ever want to hear about the love movement, like he would be happy to talk to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to to to to to to to to thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. I, thi. I, thi. I, thi. I, thi. I, thi. I, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, th. And, th. And, th.. And, th. And, th.. And, th. And, th.. And, th.. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, th th to, toeeeeeean, toeean, thin. And, th th thin. And, thin. And, thin. And, th thin. And, th be there to understand it, but that if I ever want to hear about the love movement, like he would be happy to talk to me about it. Yeah, I wrote him back and I just said no, I don't want to hear about the love move. Why?

Why is it the male cult leaders, who are also rock stars, perhaps, always seem to get to a point where they feel they must take on a younger woman as part of their godly duty. I suppose it's one of the purse of the job Tyler. I suppose. It was destroying my mom obviously. There were months of us worrying like is she going to leave. I called Stephen Hasson's organization because they do interventions and I thought is it going to take that? We like priced it out, and there were a lot of talks among the siblings of what to do. And then I'm not sure if it was Matt or someone else. I thought it was Matt. Saw his car parked down the street from this woman's apartment

and found out he was in her apartment. And that was it for mom. The siblings waited for dad to leave and then they went over and got all her stuff out and she left him a note and that was that. She never went back so it hurts for me to think about him growing old and being alone but it's like he made all those decisions none of us wanted that. At present, he's not actually alone. He is still running his homemade cult.

I think he's got a few people. The girl that he said was his spiritual daughter. I think she's still there, but I'm not even 100% sure on that. I just hear things. But now Ashley has her own family, as well as her mom, her brothers, and her sisters, and they are all working through the trauma of their past. The healing process is going to take a long time. It still is difficult when I've been 20-something years removed from this, and they were in it for so long.

It's like such a long, windy path, you know, and I will be on that path forever. There's no finish line, but it's hard when we're on different parts of the path and I am trying to be there for everyone in the best way that I can, but I'm having to be in therapy just to better equip myself for putting these relationships back together. So for years when I would see counselors, I'm trying to explain to them how bad these things were and how they really impacted me. And it wasn't until I found it was center for trauma resolution and recovery out of Nashville. It's an online platform and all of those practitioners specialize in religious trauma and so I started seeing a therapist there

and I realized wow I can't think of a better thing to do with my life going forward. And so I'm back in school and I'm getting a master's in clinical health counseling. The goal is to niche in the area of religious trauma. So I would be helping people with their deconstruction process and with spiritual abuse, religious trauma, helping them cope and heal from that. From pain and trauma comes the power to heal not only herself but others. Ashley continues to run.

She has completed more than 20. Count them 20 marathons. That's incredible. Yeah. She deserves a sash. A medal. Also if you want to hear Ashley's podcast it's called The Cult Next Door and she co-hosts it with her baby brother. Yes. Maddie. And also a very special shout out to Ashley's Cousin Heather Taylor of Guntersville, Alabama. She's been a loyal listener from day one and we thank you for your support, Heather. And speaking of support, we love our listeners and we also love our Patreon supporters, so please pitch in and donate to our cult-killing cause.

I suggest giving plasma or robbing your local liquor store to get the excess funds. It's smart, much like Brittany Horkin and Georgie Silverman, two Patreon subscribers who collected cans and bottles. They washed cars and they started an international drug-running operation in order to find the extra money to donate to our Patreon. Heaven awaits you ladies. You know they say in heaven, love comes first. We'll make heaven a place on earth. Say in heaven, love comes first. We'll make heaven a place on earth.

You know, you forced me into that. I didn't, I just said it. I blame you. I didn't, I just said it. I said it, you sang it. I blame you. I blame you. And the to the to was Ina Colt is hosted, produced, and written by me, Elizabeth Q. Iakuzzi. And me, Tyler K. M. M. Parah. Our social media, Maven, Shannon D. Payton.

Our executive producer is Stephen C. Labram. Studio engineer is Stacey M. Para. And video engineer is Gabby R. R. R. R. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. R. R. G. G. R. G. G. G. G. G. R. G. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. R. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. G. R. G. G. R. G. G. G. G. G. G. the. G. are gyr and then rap. Yeah, but she's one of the nicest people, so it's not really grr. Well now we need to enter episodes, you go gr and I go wrap it up. Purify me. Don't spare my life.